[ale] [OT] good hardware for a learner!

Beddingfield, Allen allen at ua.edu
Thu Apr 14 16:07:02 EDT 2016


The fan noise on these is going to be an issue.  Think something like the sound level of a small window unit air conditioner.
Allen B.
--
Allen Beddingfield
Systems Engineer
Office of Information Technology
The University of Alabama
Office 205-348-2251
allen at ua.edu

________________________________________
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [ale-bounces at ale.org] on behalf of Alex Carver [agcarver+ale at acarver.net]
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2016 3:02 PM
To: ale at ale.org
Subject: Re: [ale] [OT] good hardware for a learner!

What interests me about these servers is the dual NIC.    I have the
similar thought about the fans as Scott because one of these would be
perfect as my firewall/gateway/NAT box.  I was otherwise looking at a
fanless dual-NIC Intel NUC box for the same purpose.

On 2016-04-14 12:26, Karenga Smith wrote:
> Wow interesting I may have to consider getting one myself!
> Thanks
>
> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 8:11 AM, Jim Kinney <jim.kinney at gmail.com
> <mailto:jim.kinney at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     On the whole, I agree with all of what was said. Server gear is designed to
>     RUN FOREVER and desktop gear is designed to SELL IN THE MILLIONS. Totally
>     different engineering viewpoints.
>
>     For the beginner Linux newbie, I would argue the server is the hardware to
>     learn on for the aspiring professional. That said, any decent machine will
>     provide expertise in Linux skilz :-)
>
>     Buying a used server for $200 beats the used desktop for the same price from
>     a professional standpoint in most cases. Unless the plan is to do big
>     graphic processing for artists doing 3D design, desktops are generally
>     disposable crap hardware. The server gear _is_ more costly not just because
>     of quantity price issues but because of engineered robustness.
>
>     Dual power supplies don't pull much more power that a single one. The total
>     load is split between the two plus a tiny fraction for monitoring and
>     inefficiency losses.
>
>     The power used by servers is what ever load is required of them. The Intel
>     systems will use more power per cpu flop than the Opteron ones. All can
>     throttle back clock speed to cut power when unused.
>
>     Fan noise on 1U machines is a problem. Desktops have huge fans and can turn
>     slower to move the same amount of air and thus less noise.
>
>     IPMI ports should NEVER be wired up to touch LAN or certainly not Internet
>     networks. Some Dells have a shared ILO/nic which kills using one nic for
>     much of anything.
>
>     But ipmi is really cool!
>
>     On Apr 14, 2016 7:27 AM, "DJ-Pfulio" <djpfulio at jdpfu.com
>     <mailto:djpfulio at jdpfu.com>> wrote:
>
>         "Server" hardware has many downsides.
>         * Power use - often these things have redundant PSUs; Server power use
>         has been
>         reduced greatly, but is still higher than desktops (for good reason).
>         * Heat - more power become more heat. Think about the July/August
>         electric bill.
>         * Noise - ever been inside a data center? Noise isn't **any** consideration.
>         * Higher cost of upgrades/replacement parts, usually.
>
>         A few pluses:
>         * Huge amount of RAM / ECC RAM
>         * Server-class CPUs
>         * Rack mounting (may not be a plus)
>
>         But Jim is right. Sometimes there are things that only server machines have
>         which are worth having hands-on experience with - IPMI for example. How
>         do lock
>         that down, since almost all IPMI has huge security issues.
>         https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_Platform_Management_Interface
>
>         Some of the Core i7 and multi-core AMD desktop CPUs are really
>         impressive, so
>         getting a "server" CPU isn't that important for a home user. Of course, they
>         will use lots of power too, when a 53W system might be all that is required.
>
>         ECC RAM - if you run ZFS, get ECC RAM. Lots of it.  Some desktop MBs
>         support ECC
>         and I have a hard time thinking of what someone at home would do with
>         32G of RAM
>         inside a system.  Met a guy with 96G of RAM in his box, but he was running
>         Windows. From what he described, sounded like 8G of RAM would have been
>         overkill
>         to me.  So he was stuck with this server-class box, 5+ yr old CPUs and
>         96G of
>         RAM that a new Core i7 would have blown away for $1K total system cost.
>
>         The point is that home server hardware to learn on isn't bad when it is
>         cheap,
>         but if you spend $4k+ on it, you'll find that it is like an albatross
>         following
>         you around for years.
>
>         It is noisy and sucks 2x-4x more power than a desktop system.
>
>
>         On 04/13/2016 11:23 PM, Scott M. Jones wrote:
>          > Does it have a loud fan? That might be the down side...
>          >
>          > On Apr 12, 2016, at 5:00 PM, Jim Kinney <jim.kinney at gmail.com
>         <mailto:jim.kinney at gmail.com>
>          > <mailto:jim.kinney at gmail.com <mailto:jim.kinney at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>          >
>          >> I don't push hardware unless it's mine or I'm just drooling over it.
>          >>
>          >> However....
>          >>
>          >> http://ebay.to/1VSdviy
>          >>
>          >> That's a bitly link to an ebay listing for several Dell 1U systems.
>         They have
>          >> the basics of everything to get jumping on Linux from power
>         management to
>          >> virtualization all for $213 (including shipping). These are
>         reliable, solid
>          >> machines that are out of date for current commercial use (DDR2 RAM
>         is far more
>          >> costly that DDR3 per GB) but perfect for someone who wants
>         server-class gear
>          >> at home to learn on.
>          >>
>          >> I usually get supermicro but they all have odd quirks that make them
>         a pain.
>          >> New ones are a great deal on that price/power/pain curve. Dell is
>         over priced
>          >> when new. IBM is stupidly over priced new (and used!).
>          >>
>          >> Just my $0.02

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