[ale] [Fwd: Advertising on ale.org] - OT MS vs Apple vs Linux/UNIX

[Alex Carver]

But why does systemd have to consume or hide so much outside stuff?

Networking ?  Firewalls?  Logging (and its binary logs)?  Udev?

What's next, systemd consumes the kernel and becomes the OS itself?

On 2015-09-10 10:19, Lightner, Jeff wrote:
> Well when major distros like the ones you've listed commit to not use it this is clearly the death knell for systemd.  :p
> 
> Seriously - learn to love systemd - it is NOT the great evil people that haven't tried it suggest it is.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Steve Litt
> Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2015 12:38 PM
> To: ale at ale.org
> Subject: Re: [ale] [Fwd: Advertising on ale.org] - OT MS vs Apple vs Linux/UNIX
> 
> On Tue, 8 Sep 2015 19:00:54 +0000
> "Lightner, Jeff" <JLightner at dsservices.com> wrote:
> 
>> Systemd is not just on RedHat style distributions – in fact RHEL
>> itself is rather late in doing it.     (You can still do RHEL6 if it
>> bothers you that much – it’s only on RHEL7 you see it.)
>>
>> You can rail against systemd but you’re unlikely to avoid using it 
>> over time because most of the popular and commercial distros have 
>> adopted it:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd#Adoption_and_reception
> 
> PROPAGANDA ALERT: The systemd industry says they've won the battle and you have no alternative but to use systemd.
> 
> * Devuan and Funtoo have committed to never using systemd
> * Manjaro-OpenRC has very little systemd detrius, and its systemd
>   vestiges are harmless
> * PC-BSD has no systemd
> * All the preceding can easily be set up to do the work of a Linux box.
> * Devuan has created its own udev, which is the flagship of systemd
>   vendor lock-in. So have Gentoo/Funtoo.
> 
> 
>>
>> Personally I don’t find systemd as horrible as some would seem to 
>> suggest.
>>
>> One of the first things I learned in Management class in college is
>> “People are resistant to change”.    Most of the complaints I’ve seen
>> about systemd boil down to “Why change, init worked for years?”.
>> Despite the fact there are many reasons given for the “Why change”
>> many who complain simply disregard them.
> 
> PROPAGANDA ALERT: The old "newer is better" argument. ISIS is new, but not necessarily better. Ebola in cities is a new thing, but perhaps not an improvement.
> 
> Now let's talk about change, complaints and reasons.
> 
> Name me one other change in the Linux world that generated even 1/10 of the complaints of systemd. Yeah, I can't think of one either. If you don't like Emacs, you use Vim, or Eclipse, or Bluefish, or whatever.
> You can switch editors as easily as you can change clothes.
> 
> Don't like Gnome? No problem: use KDE, or Xfce, or LXDE, or OpenBox, or any one of ten or twenty others. You can switch WM/DE as fast as rearrange chairs in your living room.
> 
> Until very recently, if you didn't like sysvinit, you could have effortlessly replaced it with s6, runit, or several others.
> 
> Now comes systemd, built from the ground up to prevent its own replacement, because it promiscously interacts with as much as it can.
> Replacing systemd requires not only the usual replacement of PID1 and process manager, but also initramfs, udev, and now su, for gosh sakes.
> Every month, systemd subsumes more of what was once the toolkit Linux users used every day.
> 
> People didn't complain because it was new: They complained because it was "my way or the highway."
> 
> And for what? 90% of use cases are for practical purposes init agnostic. For this 90%, there is no "reason": They didn't ask for a better init in the first place.
> 
> I could go on about systemd's architecture, but this response is already long enough.
> 
> SteveT
> 
> Steve Litt
> August 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting: Just the Facts http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust
> 
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