From kilpatms at gmail.com Mon Sep 1 11:18:19 2014 From: kilpatms at gmail.com (Sean Kilpatrick) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 11:18:19 -0400 Subject: [ale] un-needed stuff & recycle help Message-ID: <1409584699.3011.13.camel@localhost> Okay, I'm mostly finished and that means I have a basket full of misc. parts that I no longer need. * PCI board for USB-3? Won't work without up-to-date drivers. * eight 1-gig sticks of DDR-2 (?) memory (one of which doesn't work but I'm not sure which one!) *two old-style power supplies: one 500 watts, one 400 watt. Plugs are up to date for SATA drives and mobos, but these power supplies mount at the top of the case and the fan blows out the back. * DVD/CD burner (SATA) -- won't do Blue-Ray, don't know about double-layer DVD.) * Nearly full carts. for HP 2605dn color laser. Need to recycle dead electronics, including laser printer and computer case w/mobo. Since the fire in Decatur, I don't know where to take this stuff. Suggestions would be appreciated as SWMBO has made it clear that the dead stuff must go. Sean From stephen.r.blevins at gmail.com Mon Sep 1 12:21:42 2014 From: stephen.r.blevins at gmail.com (Stephen R. Blevins) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 12:21:42 -0400 Subject: [ale] un-needed stuff & recycle help In-Reply-To: <1409584699.3011.13.camel@localhost> References: <1409584699.3011.13.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <54049D16.4090303@gmail.com> The Recycling Bank Of Gwinnett 4300 Satellite Blvd, Duluth, GA 30096 (770) 242-9281 Stephen R. Blevins stephen.r.blevins at gmail.com On 09/01/2014 11:18 AM, Sean Kilpatrick wrote: > Okay, I'm mostly finished and that means I have a basket full of misc. > parts that I no longer need. > > * PCI board for USB-3? Won't work without up-to-date drivers. > > * eight 1-gig sticks of DDR-2 (?) memory (one of which doesn't work but > I'm not sure which one!) > > *two old-style power supplies: one 500 watts, one 400 watt. Plugs are up > to date for SATA drives and mobos, but these power supplies mount at the > top of the case and the fan blows out the back. > > * DVD/CD burner (SATA) -- won't do Blue-Ray, don't know about > double-layer DVD.) > > * Nearly full carts. for HP 2605dn color laser. > > Need to recycle dead electronics, including laser printer and computer > case w/mobo. Since the fire in Decatur, I don't know where to take this > stuff. Suggestions would be appreciated as SWMBO has made it clear that > the dead stuff must go. > > Sean > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > From kilpatms at gmail.com Mon Sep 1 17:00:36 2014 From: kilpatms at gmail.com (Sean Kilpatrick) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 17:00:36 -0400 Subject: [ale] Epel repo for CentOS Message-ID: <1409605236.3011.15.camel@localhost> I am trying to locate the EPEL repo for CentOS. Googling gets me this address: http://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/epel/beta/7/x86_64/epel-release-7-0.2.noarch.rpm but when I wget that file I get a 404 error. Anyone have a better address? Sean From kilpatms at gmail.com Mon Sep 1 17:07:12 2014 From: kilpatms at gmail.com (Sean Kilpatrick) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 17:07:12 -0400 Subject: [ale] epel repo Message-ID: <1409605632.3011.16.camel@localhost> Belay my last. I finally found the needed files at kernel.org Sean From jim.kinney at gmail.com Mon Sep 1 19:10:03 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 19:10:03 -0400 Subject: [ale] Epel repo for CentOS In-Reply-To: <1409605236.3011.15.camel@localhost> References: <1409605236.3011.15.camel@localhost> Message-ID: Front page for epel still shows beta-7 as name. On Sep 1, 2014 5:02 PM, "Sean Kilpatrick" wrote: > I am trying to locate the EPEL repo for CentOS. > > Googling gets me this address: > > > http://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/epel/beta/7/x86_64/epel-release-7-0.2.noarch.rpm > > but when I wget that file I get a 404 error. > > Anyone have a better address? > > Sean > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kilpatms at gmail.com Mon Sep 1 22:09:32 2014 From: kilpatms at gmail.com (Sean Kilpatrick) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 22:09:32 -0400 Subject: [ale] Epel repo for CentOS In-Reply-To: References: <1409605236.3011.15.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1409623772.6348.3.camel@localhost> What I found on sourceforge looked like this: epel-release-7-1.noarch [12 KiB] Changelog by Dennis Gilmore (2014-08-28): - enable gpg checking now we are out of beta Sean, who hopes that looks okay after passing through the list as it did not cut and paste ASCII but some sort of html frame. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 2014-09-01 at 19:10 -0400, Jim Kinney wrote: > Front page for epel still shows beta-7 as name. > On Sep 1, 2014 5:02 PM, "Sean Kilpatrick" wrote: > > > I am trying to locate the EPEL repo for CentOS. > > > > Googling gets me this address: > > > > > > http://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/epel/beta/7/x86_64/epel-release-7-0.2.noarch.rpm > > > > but when I wget that file I get a 404 error. > > > > Anyone have a better address? > > > > Sean > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo From jim.kinney at gmail.com Tue Sep 2 08:05:36 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 08:05:36 -0400 Subject: [ale] Epel repo for CentOS In-Reply-To: <1409623772.6348.3.camel@localhost> References: <1409605236.3011.15.camel@localhost> <1409623772.6348.3.camel@localhost> Message-ID: OK. So epel is out of beta for 7. I thought sourceforge was dead. On Sep 1, 2014 10:11 PM, "Sean Kilpatrick" wrote: > What I found on sourceforge looked like this: > epel-release-7-1.noarch [12 KiB] > Changelog by Dennis Gilmore > (2014-08-28): > - enable gpg checking now we are out of beta > > Sean, > > who hopes that looks okay after passing through the list as it did not > cut and paste ASCII but some sort of html frame. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > On Mon, 2014-09-01 at 19:10 -0400, Jim Kinney wrote: > > > Front page for epel still shows beta-7 as name. > > On Sep 1, 2014 5:02 PM, "Sean Kilpatrick" wrote: > > > > > I am trying to locate the EPEL repo for CentOS. > > > > > > Googling gets me this address: > > > > > > > > > > http://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/epel/beta/7/x86_64/epel-release-7-0.2.noarch.rpm > > > > > > but when I wget that file I get a 404 error. > > > > > > Anyone have a better address? > > > > > > Sean > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Ale mailing list > > > Ale at ale.org > > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140901/097ade63/attachment.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kilpatms at gmail.com Tue Sep 2 08:59:40 2014 From: kilpatms at gmail.com (Sean Kilpatrick) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 08:59:40 -0400 Subject: [ale] Epel repo for CentOS In-Reply-To: References: <1409605236.3011.15.camel@localhost> <1409623772.6348.3.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1409662780.6348.11.camel@localhost> I also thought sourceforge was dead but it appears to be still alive and kicking. But I erred when I wrote that I had found what I needed on sourceforge. It actually was on the fedora site. I found the EPEL repo by starting at the wiki site for CentOS. That led me to the fedora project page for EPEL; then to the link for x86_64, and then to the EPEL-release-7.1 dated 28Aug14 Sean -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 2014-09-02 at 08:05 -0400, Jim Kinney wrote: > OK. So epel is out of beta for 7. > > I thought sourceforge was dead. --------------------------------------- > On Sep 1, 2014 10:11 PM, "Sean Kilpatrick" wrote: > > > What I found on sourceforge looked like this: > > epel-release-7-1.noarch [12 KiB] > > Changelog by Dennis Gilmore > > (2014-08-28): > > - enable gpg checking now we are out of beta > > > > Sean, > > > > who hopes that looks okay after passing through the list as it did not > > cut and paste ASCII but some sort of html frame. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jim.kinney at gmail.com Tue Sep 2 09:19:13 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 09:19:13 -0400 Subject: [ale] Epel repo for CentOS In-Reply-To: <1409662780.6348.11.camel@localhost> References: <1409605236.3011.15.camel@localhost> <1409623772.6348.3.camel@localhost> <1409662780.6348.11.camel@localhost> Message-ID: Ah. Makes more sense now. EPEL is a Fedora project. I just Google epel and hit the first link. :-) On Sep 2, 2014 9:02 AM, "Sean Kilpatrick" wrote: > I also thought sourceforge was dead but it appears to be still alive and > kicking. But I erred when I wrote that I had found what I needed on > sourceforge. It actually was on the fedora site. > > I found the EPEL repo by starting at the wiki site for CentOS. > That led me to the fedora project page for EPEL; then to the link for > x86_64, and then to the EPEL-release-7.1 dated 28Aug14 > > > Sean > > -------------------------------------------- > > > On Tue, 2014-09-02 at 08:05 -0400, Jim Kinney wrote: > > OK. So epel is out of beta for 7. > > > > I thought sourceforge was dead. > > --------------------------------------- > > On Sep 1, 2014 10:11 PM, "Sean Kilpatrick" wrote: > > > > > What I found on sourceforge looked like this: > > > epel-release-7-1.noarch [12 KiB] > > > Changelog by Dennis Gilmore > > > (2014-08-28): > > > - enable gpg checking now we are out of beta > > > > > > Sean, > > > > > > who hopes that looks okay after passing through the list as it did not > > > cut and paste ASCII but some sort of html frame. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JLightner at dsservices.com Tue Sep 2 09:53:44 2014 From: JLightner at dsservices.com (Lightner, Jeff) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 13:53:44 +0000 Subject: [ale] Epel repo for CentOS In-Reply-To: References: <1409605236.3011.15.camel@localhost> <1409623772.6348.3.camel@localhost> <1409662780.6348.11.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EA7601@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> CentOS has its own extended repositories similar to those the EPEL provides. The point in the EPEL is to provide things for RHEL that aren't *officially* supported by RedHat. CentOS is supposed to be a binary compile of RHEL sources but it does have extended repositories of non-RHEL stuff. I'd expect things in the EPEL to work in CentOS but not necessarily vice-versa for things in CentOS' extended repositories. Jeffrey C. Lightner Sr. UNIX Administrator DS Services of America, Inc. 5660 New Northside Drive NW Suite 250 Atlanta, GA 30328 P: 678-486-3516 C: 678-772-0018 F: 678-460-3603 E: jlightner at dsservices.com -----Original Message----- From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Jim Kinney Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 9:21 AM To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts - Yes! We run Linux! Subject: Re: [ale] Epel repo for CentOS Ah. Makes more sense now. EPEL is a Fedora project. I just Google epel and hit the first link. :-) On Sep 2, 2014 9:02 AM, "Sean Kilpatrick" wrote: > I also thought sourceforge was dead but it appears to be still alive and > kicking. But I erred when I wrote that I had found what I needed on > sourceforge. It actually was on the fedora site. > > I found the EPEL repo by starting at the wiki site for CentOS. > That led me to the fedora project page for EPEL; then to the link for > x86_64, and then to the EPEL-release-7.1 dated 28Aug14 > > > Sean > > -------------------------------------------- > > > On Tue, 2014-09-02 at 08:05 -0400, Jim Kinney wrote: > > OK. So epel is out of beta for 7. > > > > I thought sourceforge was dead. > > --------------------------------------- > > On Sep 1, 2014 10:11 PM, "Sean Kilpatrick" wrote: > > > > > What I found on sourceforge looked like this: > > > epel-release-7-1.noarch [12 KiB] > > > Changelog by Dennis Gilmore > > > (2014-08-28): > > > - enable gpg checking now we are out of beta > > > > > > Sean, > > > > > > who hopes that looks okay after passing through the list as it did > > > not cut and paste ASCII but some sort of html frame. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------- > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo Athena?, Created for the Cause(tm) Making a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Cancer __________________________________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged or confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you From kilpatms at gmail.com Tue Sep 2 10:31:10 2014 From: kilpatms at gmail.com (Sean Kilpatrick) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 10:31:10 -0400 Subject: [ale] Epel repo for CentOS In-Reply-To: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EA7601@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> References: <1409605236.3011.15.camel@localhost> <1409623772.6348.3.camel@localhost> <1409662780.6348.11.camel@localhost> <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EA7601@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> Message-ID: <1409668270.6348.21.camel@localhost> Jeff, When I installed CentOS the repo list included base, extras, and updates. I have added rpmforge and epel. The originally installed repos did not provide a number of desktop functions and applications, especially for a KDE desktop, which I prefer. What other repos are available from CentOS that provide non-RHEL stuff -- especially apps that permit the playback of common video codecs that appear throughout the web? Sean -------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 2014-09-02 at 13:53 +0000, Lightner, Jeff wrote: > CentOS has its own extended repositories similar to those the EPEL provides. > The point in the EPEL is to provide things for RHEL that aren't *officially* supported by RedHat. > CentOS is supposed to be a binary compile of RHEL sources but it does have extended repositories of > non-RHEL stuff. I'd expect things in the EPEL to work in CentOS but not necessarily vice-versa > for things in CentOS' extended repositories. > > Jeffrey C. Lightner > Sr. UNIX Administrator > > DS Services of America, Inc. > 5660 New Northside Drive NW > Suite 250 > Atlanta, GA 30328 > > P: 678-486-3516 > C: 678-772-0018 > F: 678-460-3603 > E: jlightner at dsservices.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Jim Kinney > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 9:21 AM > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts - Yes! We run Linux! > Subject: Re: [ale] Epel repo for CentOS > > Ah. Makes more sense now. EPEL is a Fedora project. > I just Google epel and hit the first link. :-) On Sep 2, 2014 9:02 AM, "Sean Kilpatrick" wrote: > > > I also thought sourceforge was dead but it appears to be still alive and > > kicking. But I erred when I wrote that I had found what I needed on > > sourceforge. It actually was on the fedora site. > > > > I found the EPEL repo by starting at the wiki site for CentOS. > > That led me to the fedora project page for EPEL; then to the link for > > x86_64, and then to the EPEL-release-7.1 dated 28Aug14 > > > > > > Sean From adrya.stembridge at gmail.com Tue Sep 2 10:41:24 2014 From: adrya.stembridge at gmail.com (Adrya Stembridge) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 10:41:24 -0400 Subject: [ale] Epel repo for CentOS In-Reply-To: <1409668270.6348.21.camel@localhost> References: <1409605236.3011.15.camel@localhost> <1409623772.6348.3.camel@localhost> <1409662780.6348.11.camel@localhost> <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EA7601@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> <1409668270.6348.21.camel@localhost> Message-ID: nux repo is useful: http://li.nux.ro/repos.html On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Sean Kilpatrick wrote: > Jeff, > When I installed CentOS the repo list included base, extras, and > updates. I have added rpmforge and epel. The originally installed repos > did not provide a number of desktop functions and applications, > especially for a KDE desktop, which I prefer. > > What other repos are available from CentOS that provide non-RHEL stuff > -- especially apps that permit the playback of common video codecs that > appear throughout the web? > > Sean > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > On Tue, 2014-09-02 at 13:53 +0000, Lightner, Jeff wrote: > > CentOS has its own extended repositories similar to those the EPEL > provides. > > > The point in the EPEL is to provide things for RHEL that aren't > *officially* supported by RedHat. > > > CentOS is supposed to be a binary compile of RHEL sources but it does > have extended repositories of > > > non-RHEL stuff. I'd expect things in the EPEL to work in CentOS but > not necessarily vice-versa > > > for things in CentOS' extended repositories. > > > > Jeffrey C. Lightner > > Sr. UNIX Administrator > > > > DS Services of America, Inc. > > 5660 New Northside Drive NW > > Suite 250 > > Atlanta, GA 30328 > > > > P: 678-486-3516 > > C: 678-772-0018 > > F: 678-460-3603 > > E: jlightner at dsservices.com > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Jim > Kinney > > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 9:21 AM > > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts - Yes! We run Linux! > > Subject: Re: [ale] Epel repo for CentOS > > > > Ah. Makes more sense now. EPEL is a Fedora project. > > I just Google epel and hit the first link. :-) On Sep 2, 2014 9:02 AM, > "Sean Kilpatrick" wrote: > > > > > I also thought sourceforge was dead but it appears to be still alive > and > > > kicking. But I erred when I wrote that I had found what I needed on > > > sourceforge. It actually was on the fedora site. > > > > > > I found the EPEL repo by starting at the wiki site for CentOS. > > > That led me to the fedora project page for EPEL; then to the link for > > > x86_64, and then to the EPEL-release-7.1 dated 28Aug14 > > > > > > > > > Sean > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JLightner at dsservices.com Tue Sep 2 13:08:36 2014 From: JLightner at dsservices.com (Lightner, Jeff) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 17:08:36 +0000 Subject: [ale] Epel repo for CentOS In-Reply-To: References: <1409605236.3011.15.camel@localhost> <1409623772.6348.3.camel@localhost> <1409662780.6348.11.camel@localhost> <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EA7601@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> <1409668270.6348.21.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EAA248@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> >From the CentOS.org site: http://wiki.centos.org/AdditionalResources/Repositories?highlight=%28repositories%29 Jeffrey C. Lightner Sr. UNIX Administrator DS Services of America, Inc. 5660 New Northside Drive NW Suite 250 Atlanta, GA 30328 P: 678-486-3516 C: 678-772-0018 F: 678-460-3603 E: jlightner at dsservices.com -----Original Message----- From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Adrya Stembridge Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 10:42 AM To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [ale] Epel repo for CentOS nux repo is useful: http://li.nux.ro/repos.html On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Sean Kilpatrick wrote: > Jeff, > When I installed CentOS the repo list included base, extras, and > updates. I have added rpmforge and epel. The originally installed > repos did not provide a number of desktop functions and applications, > especially for a KDE desktop, which I prefer. > > What other repos are available from CentOS that provide non-RHEL stuff > -- especially apps that permit the playback of common video codecs > that appear throughout the web? > > Sean > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > On Tue, 2014-09-02 at 13:53 +0000, Lightner, Jeff wrote: > > CentOS has its own extended repositories similar to those the EPEL > provides. > > > The point in the EPEL is to provide things for RHEL that aren't > *officially* supported by RedHat. > > > CentOS is supposed to be a binary compile of RHEL sources but it > > does > have extended repositories of > > > non-RHEL stuff. I'd expect things in the EPEL to work in CentOS but > not necessarily vice-versa > > > for things in CentOS' extended repositories. > > > > Jeffrey C. Lightner > > Sr. UNIX Administrator > > > > DS Services of America, Inc. > > 5660 New Northside Drive NW > > Suite 250 > > Atlanta, GA 30328 > > > > P: 678-486-3516 > > C: 678-772-0018 > > F: 678-460-3603 > > E: jlightner at dsservices.com > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of > > Jim > Kinney > > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 9:21 AM > > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts - Yes! We run Linux! > > Subject: Re: [ale] Epel repo for CentOS > > > > Ah. Makes more sense now. EPEL is a Fedora project. > > I just Google epel and hit the first link. :-) On Sep 2, 2014 9:02 > > AM, > "Sean Kilpatrick" wrote: > > > > > I also thought sourceforge was dead but it appears to be still > > > alive > and > > > kicking. But I erred when I wrote that I had found what I needed on > > > sourceforge. It actually was on the fedora site. > > > > > > I found the EPEL repo by starting at the wiki site for CentOS. > > > That led me to the fedora project page for EPEL; then to the link > > > for x86_64, and then to the EPEL-release-7.1 dated 28Aug14 > > > > > > > > > Sean > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo Athena?, Created for the Cause(tm) Making a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Cancer __________________________________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged or confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you From fassl.tod at gmail.com Tue Sep 2 16:57:13 2014 From: fassl.tod at gmail.com (Todor Fassl) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 15:57:13 -0500 Subject: [ale] Humorous (to me at least) note Message-ID: <54062F29.9090806@gmail.com> I was telling my (sort of) boss about how all these error messages on one of our systems didn't mean anything and that she should just ignore them because it would be too hard to make them go away. At the end of my little soliloquy, I said, "Every thing is 100% under control -- probably." Which actually makes sense. I am not 100% sure everything is under control but if it is under control, it's 100% under control. y From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com Tue Sep 2 17:02:21 2014 From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Chris Fowler) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 17:02:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [ale] OwnCloud In-Reply-To: <516991477.2050037.1409691544639.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> Message-ID: <1017858324.2050186.1409691741236.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> I've been playing around with OwnCloud for about 10 hours over the last 2 days. I've looking at it as a backup/offsite solution for some of our files. On my desktop I've been testing using inotifywait to sync a directory in home to a webdav share on the OC. I tried mounting the dav share directly in home, but davfs2 is so slow it is unusable. This solution, with unison, allows OC to work a bit like Dropbox. Anyone using OC like this? My next plane is to use inotifywait on the OC server (Beagle Bone Black) to watch /var/www/owncloud/data/ and then sync that to our backup device outside via Webdav. The chain will be devices to OC then OC to offsite (real Cloud). Chris -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Tue Sep 2 17:11:56 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 17:11:56 -0400 Subject: [ale] Epel repo for CentOS In-Reply-To: <1409668270.6348.21.camel@localhost> References: <1409605236.3011.15.camel@localhost> <1409623772.6348.3.camel@localhost> <1409662780.6348.11.camel@localhost> <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EA7601@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> <1409668270.6348.21.camel@localhost> Message-ID: Rpmfusion has the multimedia stuff that can't or won't be distributed by US based companies. Between it and epel, centos can play anything. Oh. Livna has rpm for libdvddecss which is required for commercial DVD movie playback. On Sep 2, 2014 10:33 AM, "Sean Kilpatrick" wrote: > Jeff, > When I installed CentOS the repo list included base, extras, and > updates. I have added rpmforge and epel. The originally installed repos > did not provide a number of desktop functions and applications, > especially for a KDE desktop, which I prefer. > > What other repos are available from CentOS that provide non-RHEL stuff > -- especially apps that permit the playback of common video codecs that > appear throughout the web? > > Sean > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > On Tue, 2014-09-02 at 13:53 +0000, Lightner, Jeff wrote: > > CentOS has its own extended repositories similar to those the EPEL > provides. > > > The point in the EPEL is to provide things for RHEL that aren't > *officially* supported by RedHat. > > > CentOS is supposed to be a binary compile of RHEL sources but it does > have extended repositories of > > > non-RHEL stuff. I'd expect things in the EPEL to work in CentOS but > not necessarily vice-versa > > > for things in CentOS' extended repositories. > > > > Jeffrey C. Lightner > > Sr. UNIX Administrator > > > > DS Services of America, Inc. > > 5660 New Northside Drive NW > > Suite 250 > > Atlanta, GA 30328 > > > > P: 678-486-3516 > > C: 678-772-0018 > > F: 678-460-3603 > > E: jlightner at dsservices.com > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Jim > Kinney > > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 9:21 AM > > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts - Yes! We run Linux! > > Subject: Re: [ale] Epel repo for CentOS > > > > Ah. Makes more sense now. EPEL is a Fedora project. > > I just Google epel and hit the first link. :-) On Sep 2, 2014 9:02 AM, > "Sean Kilpatrick" wrote: > > > > > I also thought sourceforge was dead but it appears to be still alive > and > > > kicking. But I erred when I wrote that I had found what I needed on > > > sourceforge. It actually was on the fedora site. > > > > > > I found the EPEL repo by starting at the wiki site for CentOS. > > > That led me to the fedora project page for EPEL; then to the link for > > > x86_64, and then to the EPEL-release-7.1 dated 28Aug14 > > > > > > > > > Sean > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jkinney at jimkinney.us Tue Sep 2 17:15:44 2014 From: jkinney at jimkinney.us (Jim Kinney) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 17:15:44 -0400 Subject: [ale] Humorous (to me at least) note In-Reply-To: <54062F29.9090806@gmail.com> References: <54062F29.9090806@gmail.com> Message-ID: <97be5317-fcb7-43ce-a49d-8bc3b32750a7@email.android.com> +1 All systems nominal. They are running with all the usual problems already known about. On September 2, 2014 4:57:13 PM EDT, Todor Fassl wrote: >I was telling my (sort of) boss about how all these error messages on >one of our systems didn't mean anything and that she should just ignore > >them because it would be too hard to make them go away. At the end of >my >little soliloquy, I said, "Every thing is 100% under control -- >probably." > >Which actually makes sense. I am not 100% sure everything is under >control but if it is under control, it's 100% under control. > >y >_______________________________________________ >Ale mailing list >Ale at ale.org >http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -- Jim Kinney Linux Systems Analyst Physicist/Brewer http://jimkinney.us -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millia at panix.com Tue Sep 2 17:17:49 2014 From: millia at panix.com (David Millians) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 17:17:49 -0400 Subject: [ale] IPMItools: how to query a value with duplicate names? Message-ID: <540633FD.3010906@panix.com> My ongoing adventures with Zabbix, redux: I'm at the point of having acquired some competence with the system. Got a handle on IPMI, SNMP, and want to fine tune many things. So after querying a Dell Drac, I get something that looks like this: Inlet Temp | 04h | ok | 7.1 | 22 degrees C Exhaust Temp | 01h | ok | 7.1 | 41 degrees C Temp | 0Eh | ok | 3.1 | 55 degrees C Temp | 0Fh | ok | 3.2 | 49 degrees C I can query (and zabbix does as well with: ipmitool -H #.#.#.# -U blah -P blahblah sensor get "Inlet Temp" That works for Exhaust Temp, too. It doesn't work well for Temp. I mean, I get Temp, but not Temp. So how do I get Temp, instead of Temp? Haha. Sorry for the Temp humor. I've tried: sensor get 0x0E sensor get 0Eh sensor get 0eh sensor get 0x0e and the same with quotes. I'm in the process of building templates from this base, since the Zabbix template isn't complete for my stuff. I already solved the mysteries of reading discrete values, and now I want to get the possible values for all the discretes, i.e., for SEL: Correctable memory error logging disabled Event logging disabled Log area reset/cleared All event logging disabled Log full Log almost full Thanks, David From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com Tue Sep 2 17:21:33 2014 From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Chris Fowler) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 17:21:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [ale] OwnCloud In-Reply-To: <1017858324.2050186.1409691741236.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> References: <1017858324.2050186.1409691741236.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> Message-ID: <1178713547.2050993.1409692893877.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> Next plane eh? Plan! One issue I have with davfs2 is there is no way I can tell to control bandwidth. I'm testing using trickle to mount the share. trickle -u 100 -d 500 mount /media/share -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JLightner at dsservices.com Tue Sep 2 17:37:51 2014 From: JLightner at dsservices.com (Lightner, Jeff) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 21:37:51 +0000 Subject: [ale] Humorous (to me at least) note In-Reply-To: <97be5317-fcb7-43ce-a49d-8bc3b32750a7@email.android.com> References: <54062F29.9090806@gmail.com> <97be5317-fcb7-43ce-a49d-8bc3b32750a7@email.android.com> Message-ID: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EAA462@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> I once had to spend a couple of hours explaining to a non-technical business manager why exit status 1 from Veritas Netbackup wasn't actually a non-zero ERROR status. It taught me the value of exclude lists - if you exclude the socket files it can't backup anyway from the attempt it gives a nice exit status 0. The fact that only the exit status changed and not the actual contents of the backups was lost on many. :-) Recently I've seen a lot of discussion regarding an ugly message that shows up in older RHEL log files regarding multipath. The solution upstream was to remove the error message. The condition that makes it show up is still there but isn't really a problem. The number of folks I've seen posting asking how to get rid of "the error" despite the well written post explaining that it isn't REALLY an error and has been removed upstream because of that boggle the mind. Presumably these are admins asking the question. -----Original Message----- From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Jim Kinney Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 5:16 PM To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [ale] Humorous (to me at least) note +1 All systems nominal. They are running with all the usual problems already known about. On September 2, 2014 4:57:13 PM EDT, Todor Fassl wrote: >I was telling my (sort of) boss about how all these error messages on >one of our systems didn't mean anything and that she should just ignore > >them because it would be too hard to make them go away. At the end of >my little soliloquy, I said, "Every thing is 100% under control -- >probably." > >Which actually makes sense. I am not 100% sure everything is under >control but if it is under control, it's 100% under control. > >y >_______________________________________________ >Ale mailing list >Ale at ale.org >http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -- Jim Kinney Linux Systems Analyst Physicist/Brewer http://jimkinney.us -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo Athena(r), Created for the Cause(tm) Making a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Cancer __________________________________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged or confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you From jdp at algoloma.com Tue Sep 2 18:06:37 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 18:06:37 -0400 Subject: [ale] OwnCloud In-Reply-To: <1017858324.2050186.1409691741236.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> References: <1017858324.2050186.1409691741236.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> Message-ID: <54063F6D.3020806@algoloma.com> On 09/02/2014 05:02 PM, Chris Fowler wrote: > I've been playing around with OwnCloud for about 10 hours over the last 2 > days. I've looking at it as a backup/offsite solution for some of our files. > > > On my desktop I've been testing using inotifywait to sync a directory in home > to a webdav share on the OC. I tried mounting the dav share directly in home, > but davfs2 is so slow it is unusable. This solution, with unison, allows OC > to work a bit like Dropbox. > > Anyone using OC like this? > > My next plane is to use inotifywait on the OC server (Beagle Bone Black) to > watch /var/www/owncloud/data/ and then sync that to our backup device outside > via Webdav. The chain will be devices to OC then OC to offsite (real Cloud). > Have all the security issues with DAV been solved? There were so many critical flaws that I don't know anyone using on any platform. These were scary issues. From jdp at algoloma.com Tue Sep 2 18:08:24 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 18:08:24 -0400 Subject: [ale] Humorous (to me at least) note In-Reply-To: <54062F29.9090806@gmail.com> References: <54062F29.9090806@gmail.com> Message-ID: <54063FD8.7030309@algoloma.com> On 09/02/2014 04:57 PM, Todor Fassl wrote: > I was telling my (sort of) boss about how all these error messages on one of our > systems didn't mean anything and that she should just ignore them because it > would be too hard to make them go away. At the end of my little soliloquy, I > said, "Every thing is 100% under control -- probably." > > Which actually makes sense. I am not 100% sure everything is under control but > if it is under control, it's 100% under control. > Some highly custom NASA manned spaceflight control systems had "standard errors" - NOT seeing the errors was an error to be researched - ASAP! From agcarver+ale at acarver.net Tue Sep 2 20:37:46 2014 From: agcarver+ale at acarver.net (Alex Carver) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 17:37:46 -0700 Subject: [ale] OT(ish) Sold or stolen? Message-ID: <540662DA.1080402@acarver.net> I have cell service with AT&T and, in their section of the account for handling billing information, there's a spot to add an email address for billing notifications. I have long ago opted out of all marketing options offered and for many years didn't get much except notices the bill is due. Two years ago I decided to give them a new email address which was a randomly generated alias at my domain and hosted on my own server. I had done that with several other companies (bank, credit card, etc.), just hadn't gotten around to AT&T yet. Two years and all was fine. A few days ago, I suddenly start receiving tons of spam attempts (usually blocked by an RBL) and connection attempts on my server. I always have the exim logs showing on my screen, I can see emails coming in as it happens including the failures. This was the first time that any of my random aliases were used by someone other than the company that has it. Until this point no one tried these addresses because they weren't advertised anywhere by any mechanism. I never gave anyone else that particular alias, I don't use it as a username for my online account access, it's not stored in my phone or on any address books, and I don't send email from it (receive only alias). I've already called their fraud department who proceeded to spend 40 minutes on the phone with me using various levels of technical jargon plus pointing fingers to shift the blame away from them (at one point they actually said "A third party must have your email address.") Do you think it was sold and they got caught with their hand in the cookie jar or stolen and they don't know there's a breach in progress? Aside from the fraud group which has advised me that they are opening an investigation (maybe) would you suggest I talk to anyone else? Exim's logs show attempts coming in from a vast array of countries including Italy, Canada, Switzerland, Brazil, Romania, Argentina, Bulgaria, Portugal, Serbia, Germany, Austria, Israel, India, Turkey, Spain, Croatia, Venezuela, Columbia, Poland, Iraq (by way of Al Jazeera's servers of all things) and quite a few servers within the US plus many, many more that I didn't spend time looking up just yet. From jim.kinney at gmail.com Tue Sep 2 21:28:28 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 21:28:28 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT(ish) Sold or stolen? In-Reply-To: <540662DA.1080402@acarver.net> References: <540662DA.1080402@acarver.net> Message-ID: The timing is suspicious but it very well could be just a coincidence. Create a few more random name accounts on the same server, don't give those out and watch for a few days for activity. On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 8:37 PM, Alex Carver wrote: > I have cell service with AT&T and, in their section of the account for > handling billing information, there's a spot to add an email address for > billing notifications. I have long ago opted out of all marketing > options offered and for many years didn't get much except notices the > bill is due. > > Two years ago I decided to give them a new email address which was a > randomly generated alias at my domain and hosted on my own server. I > had done that with several other companies (bank, credit card, etc.), > just hadn't gotten around to AT&T yet. > > Two years and all was fine. A few days ago, I suddenly start receiving > tons of spam attempts (usually blocked by an RBL) and connection > attempts on my server. I always have the exim logs showing on my > screen, I can see emails coming in as it happens including the failures. > This was the first time that any of my random aliases were used by > someone other than the company that has it. Until this point no one > tried these addresses because they weren't advertised anywhere by any > mechanism. > > I never gave anyone else that particular alias, I don't use it as a > username for my online account access, it's not stored in my phone or on > any address books, and I don't send email from it (receive only alias). > > I've already called their fraud department who proceeded to spend 40 > minutes on the phone with me using various levels of technical jargon > plus pointing fingers to shift the blame away from them (at one point > they actually said "A third party must have your email address.") > > Do you think it was sold and they got caught with their hand in the > cookie jar or stolen and they don't know there's a breach in progress? > > Aside from the fraud group which has advised me that they are opening an > investigation (maybe) would you suggest I talk to anyone else? > > > Exim's logs show attempts coming in from a vast array of countries > including Italy, Canada, Switzerland, Brazil, Romania, Argentina, > Bulgaria, Portugal, Serbia, Germany, Austria, Israel, India, Turkey, > Spain, Croatia, Venezuela, Columbia, Poland, Iraq (by way of Al > Jazeera's servers of all things) and quite a few servers within the US > plus many, many more that I didn't spend time looking up just yet. > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From agcarver+ale at acarver.net Tue Sep 2 21:42:29 2014 From: agcarver+ale at acarver.net (Alex Carver) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 18:42:29 -0700 Subject: [ale] OT(ish) Sold or stolen? In-Reply-To: References: <540662DA.1080402@acarver.net> Message-ID: <54067205.9090007@acarver.net> I did change the alias at AT&T to a newly generated one. I have several dozen other aliases on the server and none of them are being hit with attempts. All the activity is confined to that single alias I had given to AT&T. I'm certain nothing has happened to my server, already triple checked all the logs just in case and there is nothing out of the ordinary beyond the increased attempts to use that particular email alias. On 2014-09-02 18:28, Jim Kinney wrote: > The timing is suspicious but it very well could be just a coincidence. > Create a few more random name accounts on the same server, don't give those > out and watch for a few days for activity. > > > On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 8:37 PM, Alex Carver > wrote: > >> I have cell service with AT&T and, in their section of the account for >> handling billing information, there's a spot to add an email address for >> billing notifications. I have long ago opted out of all marketing >> options offered and for many years didn't get much except notices the >> bill is due. >> >> Two years ago I decided to give them a new email address which was a >> randomly generated alias at my domain and hosted on my own server. I >> had done that with several other companies (bank, credit card, etc.), >> just hadn't gotten around to AT&T yet. >> >> Two years and all was fine. A few days ago, I suddenly start receiving >> tons of spam attempts (usually blocked by an RBL) and connection >> attempts on my server. I always have the exim logs showing on my >> screen, I can see emails coming in as it happens including the failures. >> This was the first time that any of my random aliases were used by >> someone other than the company that has it. Until this point no one >> tried these addresses because they weren't advertised anywhere by any >> mechanism. >> >> I never gave anyone else that particular alias, I don't use it as a >> username for my online account access, it's not stored in my phone or on >> any address books, and I don't send email from it (receive only alias). >> >> I've already called their fraud department who proceeded to spend 40 >> minutes on the phone with me using various levels of technical jargon >> plus pointing fingers to shift the blame away from them (at one point >> they actually said "A third party must have your email address.") >> >> Do you think it was sold and they got caught with their hand in the >> cookie jar or stolen and they don't know there's a breach in progress? >> >> Aside from the fraud group which has advised me that they are opening an >> investigation (maybe) would you suggest I talk to anyone else? >> >> >> Exim's logs show attempts coming in from a vast array of countries >> including Italy, Canada, Switzerland, Brazil, Romania, Argentina, >> Bulgaria, Portugal, Serbia, Germany, Austria, Israel, India, Turkey, >> Spain, Croatia, Venezuela, Columbia, Poland, Iraq (by way of Al >> Jazeera's servers of all things) and quite a few servers within the US >> plus many, many more that I didn't spend time looking up just yet. From jkinney at jimkinney.us Tue Sep 2 21:46:44 2014 From: jkinney at jimkinney.us (Jim Kinney) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 21:46:44 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT(ish) Sold or stolen? In-Reply-To: <54067205.9090007@acarver.net> References: <540662DA.1080402@acarver.net> <54067205.9090007@acarver.net> Message-ID: Sounds "leaked" to me. On September 2, 2014 9:42:29 PM EDT, Alex Carver wrote: >I did change the alias at AT&T to a newly generated one. I have >several >dozen other aliases on the server and none of them are being hit with >attempts. All the activity is confined to that single alias I had >given >to AT&T. I'm certain nothing has happened to my server, already triple >checked all the logs just in case and there is nothing out of the >ordinary beyond the increased attempts to use that particular email >alias. > >On 2014-09-02 18:28, Jim Kinney wrote: >> The timing is suspicious but it very well could be just a >coincidence. >> Create a few more random name accounts on the same server, don't give >those >> out and watch for a few days for activity. >> >> >> On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 8:37 PM, Alex Carver > >> wrote: >> >>> I have cell service with AT&T and, in their section of the account >for >>> handling billing information, there's a spot to add an email address >for >>> billing notifications. I have long ago opted out of all marketing >>> options offered and for many years didn't get much except notices >the >>> bill is due. >>> >>> Two years ago I decided to give them a new email address which was a >>> randomly generated alias at my domain and hosted on my own server. >I >>> had done that with several other companies (bank, credit card, >etc.), >>> just hadn't gotten around to AT&T yet. >>> >>> Two years and all was fine. A few days ago, I suddenly start >receiving >>> tons of spam attempts (usually blocked by an RBL) and connection >>> attempts on my server. I always have the exim logs showing on my >>> screen, I can see emails coming in as it happens including the >failures. >>> This was the first time that any of my random aliases were used by >>> someone other than the company that has it. Until this point no one >>> tried these addresses because they weren't advertised anywhere by >any >>> mechanism. >>> >>> I never gave anyone else that particular alias, I don't use it as a >>> username for my online account access, it's not stored in my phone >or on >>> any address books, and I don't send email from it (receive only >alias). >>> >>> I've already called their fraud department who proceeded to spend 40 >>> minutes on the phone with me using various levels of technical >jargon >>> plus pointing fingers to shift the blame away from them (at one >point >>> they actually said "A third party must have your email address.") >>> >>> Do you think it was sold and they got caught with their hand in the >>> cookie jar or stolen and they don't know there's a breach in >progress? >>> >>> Aside from the fraud group which has advised me that they are >opening an >>> investigation (maybe) would you suggest I talk to anyone else? >>> >>> >>> Exim's logs show attempts coming in from a vast array of countries >>> including Italy, Canada, Switzerland, Brazil, Romania, Argentina, >>> Bulgaria, Portugal, Serbia, Germany, Austria, Israel, India, Turkey, >>> Spain, Croatia, Venezuela, Columbia, Poland, Iraq (by way of Al >>> Jazeera's servers of all things) and quite a few servers within the >US >>> plus many, many more that I didn't spend time looking up just yet. > >_______________________________________________ >Ale mailing list >Ale at ale.org >http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -- Jim Kinney Linux Systems Analyst Physicist/Brewer http://jimkinney.us -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From agcarver+ale at acarver.net Tue Sep 2 21:49:26 2014 From: agcarver+ale at acarver.net (Alex Carver) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 18:49:26 -0700 Subject: [ale] OT(ish) Sold or stolen? In-Reply-To: References: <540662DA.1080402@acarver.net> <54067205.9090007@acarver.net> Message-ID: <540673A6.2060105@acarver.net> I agree. :) I just want to really know from them whether they sold it (against their claims that they don't sell that particular information) or they have a bigger problem on their hands. But boy did they fight to try and point the finger anywhere but themselves. On 2014-09-02 18:46, Jim Kinney wrote: > Sounds "leaked" to me. > > On September 2, 2014 9:42:29 PM EDT, Alex Carver wrote: >> I did change the alias at AT&T to a newly generated one. I have >> several >> dozen other aliases on the server and none of them are being hit with >> attempts. All the activity is confined to that single alias I had >> given >> to AT&T. I'm certain nothing has happened to my server, already triple >> checked all the logs just in case and there is nothing out of the >> ordinary beyond the increased attempts to use that particular email >> alias. >> >> On 2014-09-02 18:28, Jim Kinney wrote: >>> The timing is suspicious but it very well could be just a >> coincidence. >>> Create a few more random name accounts on the same server, don't give >> those >>> out and watch for a few days for activity. >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 8:37 PM, Alex Carver >> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I have cell service with AT&T and, in their section of the account >> for >>>> handling billing information, there's a spot to add an email address >> for >>>> billing notifications. I have long ago opted out of all marketing >>>> options offered and for many years didn't get much except notices >> the >>>> bill is due. >>>> >>>> Two years ago I decided to give them a new email address which was a >>>> randomly generated alias at my domain and hosted on my own server. >> I >>>> had done that with several other companies (bank, credit card, >> etc.), >>>> just hadn't gotten around to AT&T yet. >>>> >>>> Two years and all was fine. A few days ago, I suddenly start >> receiving >>>> tons of spam attempts (usually blocked by an RBL) and connection >>>> attempts on my server. I always have the exim logs showing on my >>>> screen, I can see emails coming in as it happens including the >> failures. >>>> This was the first time that any of my random aliases were used by >>>> someone other than the company that has it. Until this point no one >>>> tried these addresses because they weren't advertised anywhere by >> any >>>> mechanism. >>>> >>>> I never gave anyone else that particular alias, I don't use it as a >>>> username for my online account access, it's not stored in my phone >> or on >>>> any address books, and I don't send email from it (receive only >> alias). >>>> >>>> I've already called their fraud department who proceeded to spend 40 >>>> minutes on the phone with me using various levels of technical >> jargon >>>> plus pointing fingers to shift the blame away from them (at one >> point >>>> they actually said "A third party must have your email address.") >>>> >>>> Do you think it was sold and they got caught with their hand in the >>>> cookie jar or stolen and they don't know there's a breach in >> progress? >>>> >>>> Aside from the fraud group which has advised me that they are >> opening an >>>> investigation (maybe) would you suggest I talk to anyone else? >>>> >>>> >>>> Exim's logs show attempts coming in from a vast array of countries >>>> including Italy, Canada, Switzerland, Brazil, Romania, Argentina, >>>> Bulgaria, Portugal, Serbia, Germany, Austria, Israel, India, Turkey, >>>> Spain, Croatia, Venezuela, Columbia, Poland, Iraq (by way of Al >>>> Jazeera's servers of all things) and quite a few servers within the >> US >>>> plus many, many more that I didn't spend time looking up just yet. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > -- > Jim Kinney > Linux Systems Analyst > Physicist/Brewer > http://jimkinney.us > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > From ale at sixit.com Tue Sep 2 23:59:00 2014 From: ale at sixit.com (Robert Reese) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 23:59:00 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT(ish) Sold or stolen? In-Reply-To: <540662DA.1080402@acarver.net> References: <540662DA.1080402@acarver.net> Message-ID: <372925805.20140902235900@sixit.com> Hello Alex, Tuesday, September 2, 2014, 8:37:46 PM, you wrote: > I never gave anyone else that particular alias, I don't use it as a > username for my online account access, it's not stored in my phone or on > any address books, and I don't send email from it (receive only alias). I do something similar, and there are three possibilities that I see: 1: AT&T indeed either sold your email address or had some email address data stolen from them. 2: Your own server has been infiltrated. 3: Somewhere between AT&T's email servers and your email servers has been compromised where data is being intercepted. "Pharming" at one time was the phrase, but that's since been absconded. I suspect #3 is the most likely culprit. This is one of the reasons people shouldn't send confidential or sensitive information via unencrypted email, even in an attachment. Best wishes, Robert~ From agcarver+ale at acarver.net Wed Sep 3 00:20:09 2014 From: agcarver+ale at acarver.net (Alex Carver) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 21:20:09 -0700 Subject: [ale] OT(ish) Sold or stolen? In-Reply-To: <372925805.20140902235900@sixit.com> References: <540662DA.1080402@acarver.net> <372925805.20140902235900@sixit.com> Message-ID: <540696F9.3030204@acarver.net> On 2014-09-02 20:59, Robert Reese wrote: > Hello Alex, > > Tuesday, September 2, 2014, 8:37:46 PM, you wrote: > >> I never gave anyone else that particular alias, I don't use it as a >> username for my online account access, it's not stored in my phone or on >> any address books, and I don't send email from it (receive only alias). > > I do something similar, and there are three possibilities that I see: > 1: AT&T indeed either sold your email address or had some email address data stolen from them. > 2: Your own server has been infiltrated. > 3: Somewhere between AT&T's email servers and your email servers has been compromised where data is being intercepted. "Pharming" at one time was the phrase, but that's since been absconded. > > I suspect #3 is the most likely culprit. This is one of the reasons people shouldn't send confidential or sensitive information via unencrypted email, even in an attachment. I know my server is ok, I check it every day and keep it patched. Number 3 would be very interesting since the email never leaves AT&T's networks (I have UVerse). I still suspect it's a case of stolen or sold but I have very little control over the contents of the emails that AT&T sends to me (part of the reason I use my own server). I don't have statements come by email but I don't have a way to opt out of any other communications. From jnolan at steelpivot.com Wed Sep 3 08:07:24 2014 From: jnolan at steelpivot.com (Joe Nolan) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 08:07:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [ale] OT(ish) Sold or stolen? In-Reply-To: <540696F9.3030204@acarver.net> References: <540662DA.1080402@acarver.net> <372925805.20140902235900@sixit.com> <540696F9.3030204@acarver.net> Message-ID: <831018264.450328.1409746044407.JavaMail.zimbra@steelpivot.com> Do you have an iPad w/ ATT? -Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Carver" To: ale at ale.org Sent: Wednesday, September 3, 2014 12:20:09 AM Subject: Re: [ale] OT(ish) Sold or stolen? On 2014-09-02 20:59, Robert Reese wrote: > Hello Alex, > > Tuesday, September 2, 2014, 8:37:46 PM, you wrote: > >> I never gave anyone else that particular alias, I don't use it as a >> username for my online account access, it's not stored in my phone or on >> any address books, and I don't send email from it (receive only alias). > > I do something similar, and there are three possibilities that I see: > 1: AT&T indeed either sold your email address or had some email address data stolen from them. > 2: Your own server has been infiltrated. > 3: Somewhere between AT&T's email servers and your email servers has been compromised where data is being intercepted. "Pharming" at one time was the phrase, but that's since been absconded. > > I suspect #3 is the most likely culprit. This is one of the reasons people shouldn't send confidential or sensitive information via unencrypted email, even in an attachment. I know my server is ok, I check it every day and keep it patched. Number 3 would be very interesting since the email never leaves AT&T's networks (I have UVerse). I still suspect it's a case of stolen or sold but I have very little control over the contents of the emails that AT&T sends to me (part of the reason I use my own server). I don't have statements come by email but I don't have a way to opt out of any other communications. _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo From JLightner at dsservices.com Wed Sep 3 08:25:09 2014 From: JLightner at dsservices.com (Lightner, Jeff) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 12:25:09 +0000 Subject: [ale] OT(ish) Sold or stolen? In-Reply-To: <831018264.450328.1409746044407.JavaMail.zimbra@steelpivot.com> References: <540662DA.1080402@acarver.net> <372925805.20140902235900@sixit.com> <540696F9.3030204@acarver.net> <831018264.450328.1409746044407.JavaMail.zimbra@steelpivot.com> Message-ID: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EAA795@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> It clearly was part of the information Snowden was able to abscond with from the NSA as they get all records they want from phone companies. He's strapped for cash having been stuck in Russia so long so finally sold it despite the fact that he really is just a nice guy trying to protect us all from the government. :p -----Original Message----- From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Joe Nolan Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2014 8:09 AM To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [ale] OT(ish) Sold or stolen? Do you have an iPad w/ ATT? -Joe Athena(r), Created for the Cause(tm) Making a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Cancer __________________________________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged or confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you From agcarver+ale at acarver.net Wed Sep 3 09:12:38 2014 From: agcarver+ale at acarver.net (Alex Carver) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 06:12:38 -0700 Subject: [ale] OT(ish) Sold or stolen? In-Reply-To: <831018264.450328.1409746044407.JavaMail.zimbra@steelpivot.com> References: <540662DA.1080402@acarver.net> <372925805.20140902235900@sixit.com> <540696F9.3030204@acarver.net> <831018264.450328.1409746044407.JavaMail.zimbra@steelpivot.com> Message-ID: <540713C6.90200@acarver.net> Nope. :) So it wasn't part of that haul. On 2014-09-03 05:07, Joe Nolan wrote: > Do you have an iPad w/ ATT? > > -Joe > From agcarver+ale at acarver.net Wed Sep 3 09:14:02 2014 From: agcarver+ale at acarver.net (Alex Carver) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 06:14:02 -0700 Subject: [ale] OT(ish) Sold or stolen? In-Reply-To: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EAA795@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> References: <540662DA.1080402@acarver.net> <372925805.20140902235900@sixit.com> <540696F9.3030204@acarver.net> <831018264.450328.1409746044407.JavaMail.zimbra@steelpivot.com> <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EAA795@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> Message-ID: <5407141A.1040600@acarver.net> Ah, that makes so much more sense/cents. ;) On 2014-09-03 05:25, Lightner, Jeff wrote: > It clearly was part of the information Snowden was able to abscond with from the NSA as they get all records they want from phone companies. He's strapped for cash having been stuck in Russia so long so finally sold it despite the fact that he really is just a nice guy trying to protect us all from the government. :p > > > > > Do you have an iPad w/ ATT? > > -Joe > From ale at doc-x.net Wed Sep 3 10:17:40 2014 From: ale at doc-x.net (Dylan Northrup) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 10:17:40 -0400 Subject: [ale] Humorous (to me at least) note In-Reply-To: <54063FD8.7030309@algoloma.com> References: <54062F29.9090806@gmail.com> <54063FD8.7030309@algoloma.com> Message-ID: This actually bugs this shit out of me, especially when I was dealing with some Java developers trying to stress test their software and track down the source of any failures. Hearing "Oh, that stack trace is normal" was irritating as hell because it made determining the source of an issue very, very difficult. If you have a known exception, FFS handle it! You have the tools! It's not like it's difficult, it just takes time and attention to detail. . . . and a modicum of care about the ultimate consumers of your software (which, sadly, seems to be low on many developers' priorities). On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 6:08 PM, JD wrote: > On 09/02/2014 04:57 PM, Todor Fassl wrote: > > I was telling my (sort of) boss about how all these error messages on > one of our > > systems didn't mean anything and that she should just ignore them > because it > > would be too hard to make them go away. At the end of my little > soliloquy, I > > said, "Every thing is 100% under control -- probably." > > > > Which actually makes sense. I am not 100% sure everything is under > control but > > if it is under control, it's 100% under control. > > > > Some highly custom NASA manned spaceflight control systems had "standard > errors" > - NOT seeing the errors was an error to be researched - ASAP! > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- Dylan Northrup "Adversity is just change we haven't adapted ourselves to yet." - Aimee Mullins -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdp at algoloma.com Wed Sep 3 10:30:35 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 10:30:35 -0400 Subject: [ale] Humorous (to me at least) note In-Reply-To: References: <54062F29.9090806@gmail.com> <54063FD8.7030309@algoloma.com> Message-ID: <5407260B.2010202@algoloma.com> A one-line error is VERY DIFFERENT from a stack trace. I've worked in teams where any memory leak was considered a sev-1 bug to be corrected prior to shipping - no exceptions. Hopefully programmers realize that when any tool/program spews more than a few lines of information to the console (stderr or stdout), that is cause for concern. Recently switched to a newer version of perl here - lots of deprecation warnings were shown - that means I have some work to fix them. ANY warning is something to be addressed, if I'm the programmer. On 09/03/2014 10:17 AM, Dylan Northrup wrote: > This actually bugs this shit out of me, especially when I was dealing with > some Java developers trying to stress test their software and track down > the source of any failures. Hearing "Oh, that stack trace is normal" was > irritating as hell because it made determining the source of an issue very, > very difficult. If you have a known exception, FFS handle it! You have > the tools! It's not like it's difficult, it just takes time and attention > to detail. . . . and a modicum of care about the ultimate consumers of your > software (which, sadly, seems to be low on many developers' priorities). > > > On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 6:08 PM, JD wrote: > >> On 09/02/2014 04:57 PM, Todor Fassl wrote: >>> I was telling my (sort of) boss about how all these error messages on >> one of our >>> systems didn't mean anything and that she should just ignore them >> because it >>> would be too hard to make them go away. At the end of my little >> soliloquy, I >>> said, "Every thing is 100% under control -- probably." >>> >>> Which actually makes sense. I am not 100% sure everything is under >> control but >>> if it is under control, it's 100% under control. >>> >> >> Some highly custom NASA manned spaceflight control systems had "standard >> errors" >> - NOT seeing the errors was an error to be researched - ASAP! From ale at horkan.net Wed Sep 3 12:09:03 2014 From: ale at horkan.net (Horkan Smith) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 12:09:03 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT(ish) Sold or stolen? In-Reply-To: <372925805.20140902235900@sixit.com> References: <540662DA.1080402@acarver.net> <372925805.20140902235900@sixit.com> Message-ID: <20140903160903.GA1544@horkan.net> You've probably checked and eliminated this, but I've had periods where the spammers sent loads of completely random email usernames that were obviously auto-generated. Every once in awhile, they've matched one of the ones I actually use. later! horkan On Tue, Sep 02, 2014 at 11:59:00PM -0400, Robert Reese wrote: > Hello Alex, > > Tuesday, September 2, 2014, 8:37:46 PM, you wrote: > > > I never gave anyone else that particular alias, I don't use it as a > > username for my online account access, it's not stored in my phone or on > > any address books, and I don't send email from it (receive only alias). > > I do something similar, and there are three possibilities that I see: > 1: AT&T indeed either sold your email address or had some email address data stolen from them. > 2: Your own server has been infiltrated. > 3: Somewhere between AT&T's email servers and your email servers has been compromised where data is being intercepted. "Pharming" at one time was the phrase, but that's since been absconded. > > I suspect #3 is the most likely culprit. This is one of the reasons people shouldn't send confidential or sensitive information via unencrypted email, even in an attachment. > > Best wishes, > Robert~ > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -- Horkan Smith 678-777-3263 cell, ale at horkan.net From fassl.tod at gmail.com Wed Sep 3 14:07:23 2014 From: fassl.tod at gmail.com (Todor Fassl) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 13:07:23 -0500 Subject: [ale] Humorous (to me at least) note In-Reply-To: <54063FD8.7030309@algoloma.com> References: <54062F29.9090806@gmail.com> <54063FD8.7030309@algoloma.com> Message-ID: <540758DB.1030109@gmail.com> On 09/02/14 17:08, JD wrote: > Some highly custom NASA manned spaceflight control systems had > "standard errors" - NOT seeing the errors was an error to be > researched - ASAP! _______________________________________________ Ale > mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See > JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at Yeah, that's a common enough problem, really. I mean, if your backup script doesn't run at all, it can't generate an error message. You're kinda like, "Hey, wait a minute. How come the backup system hasn't sent me an error message in 6 months? How can that be? From jim.kinney at gmail.com Wed Sep 3 14:14:06 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 14:14:06 -0400 Subject: [ale] Humorous (to me at least) note In-Reply-To: <540758DB.1030109@gmail.com> References: <54062F29.9090806@gmail.com> <54063FD8.7030309@algoloma.com> <540758DB.1030109@gmail.com> Message-ID: backup? you mean the system wasn't always up and now it's back up? Or is like a cat get's it's back up when afraid. Seriously, I don't like to see the presence of errors or warnings as a common thing. It's too easy to lull into a stupor and miss a real issue. And my grep -v gets really long. On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 2:07 PM, Todor Fassl wrote: > > On 09/02/14 17:08, JD wrote: > >> Some highly custom NASA manned spaceflight control systems had "standard >> errors" - NOT seeing the errors was an error to be researched - ASAP! >> _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE >> and SCHOOLS lists at >> > > Yeah, that's a common enough problem, really. I mean, if your backup > script doesn't run at all, it can't generate an error message. You're kinda > like, "Hey, wait a minute. How come the backup system hasn't sent me an > error message in 6 months? How can that be? > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Wed Sep 3 14:48:45 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 14:48:45 -0400 Subject: [ale] for the hardware hacker who just bricked a on a flash upgrade Message-ID: http://dangerousprototypes.com/docs/Bus_Pirate This looks REALLY useful! found reference to it here: http://johnlewis.ie/unbricking-a-samsung-series-5-550-chromebook/ As I'm looking to rewrite a chromebook for ulterior motives, I was digging for some prior art on the process. so this machine: http://www.microcenter.com/product/430302/Pavilion_14-q029wm_14_Chromebook_Refurbished_-_Snow_White_in_Satin_Sparkle_Finish and add this external SSD combo: http://www.microcenter.com/product/434188/MX100_Series_256GB_SATA_25_Internal_Solid_State_Drive_CT256MX100SSD1 http://www.microcenter.com/product/353301/25_SATA_to_SuperSpeed_USB_30_External_Hard_Drive_Enclosure the enclosure lists Linux kernel support (yay!) and the $229 chromebook get's an upgrade. -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From agcarver+ale at acarver.net Wed Sep 3 15:47:32 2014 From: agcarver+ale at acarver.net (Alex Carver) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 12:47:32 -0700 Subject: [ale] OT(ish) Sold or stolen? In-Reply-To: <20140903160903.GA1544@horkan.net> References: <540662DA.1080402@acarver.net> <372925805.20140902235900@sixit.com> <20140903160903.GA1544@horkan.net> Message-ID: <54077054.6080002@acarver.net> On 2014-09-03 09:09, Horkan Smith wrote: > You've probably checked and eliminated this, but I've had periods where the spammers sent loads of completely random email usernames that were obviously auto-generated. Every once in awhile, they've matched one of the ones I actually use. Yeah, these are generated as a mashup between a prefix (like 'att' or 'boa') and a suffix that comes from something like pwgen or tempfile. So anyone randomly spamming would have to guess the entity to spam and then come up with the random sequence that fits what I have. It's not implemented in a way that is as complicated for places that use the email address as the user login (since I have to remember it) but for this use by AT&T, it's not the login so it's very complicated/random. From ale at horkan.net Wed Sep 3 15:56:29 2014 From: ale at horkan.net (Horkan Smith) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 15:56:29 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT(ish) Sold or stolen? In-Reply-To: <54077054.6080002@acarver.net> References: <540662DA.1080402@acarver.net> <372925805.20140902235900@sixit.com> <20140903160903.GA1544@horkan.net> <54077054.6080002@acarver.net> Message-ID: <20140903195629.GB1544@horkan.net> At least in my case, it wasn't targeted random - I got *thousands* of machine-generated random usernames, probably tens of thousands in the logs. One or two of 'em happened to match something I'd used, purely by chance. later! horkan On Wed, Sep 03, 2014 at 12:47:32PM -0700, Alex Carver wrote: > On 2014-09-03 09:09, Horkan Smith wrote: > > You've probably checked and eliminated this, but I've had periods where the spammers sent loads of completely random email usernames that were obviously auto-generated. Every once in awhile, they've matched one of the ones I actually use. > > Yeah, these are generated as a mashup between a prefix (like 'att' or > 'boa') and a suffix that comes from something like pwgen or tempfile. > So anyone randomly spamming would have to guess the entity to spam and > then come up with the random sequence that fits what I have. > > It's not implemented in a way that is as complicated for places that use > the email address as the user login (since I have to remember it) but > for this use by AT&T, it's not the login so it's very complicated/random. > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -- Horkan Smith 678-777-3263 cell, ale at horkan.net From agcarver+ale at acarver.net Wed Sep 3 16:05:07 2014 From: agcarver+ale at acarver.net (Alex Carver) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 13:05:07 -0700 Subject: [ale] OT(ish) Sold or stolen? In-Reply-To: <20140903195629.GB1544@horkan.net> References: <540662DA.1080402@acarver.net> <372925805.20140902235900@sixit.com> <20140903160903.GA1544@horkan.net> <54077054.6080002@acarver.net> <20140903195629.GB1544@horkan.net> Message-ID: <54077473.8050609@acarver.net> On 2014-09-03 12:56, Horkan Smith wrote: > At least in my case, it wasn't targeted random - I got *thousands* of machine-generated random usernames, probably tens of thousands in the logs. One or two of 'em happened to match something I'd used, purely by chance. Ah, I see. I actually very rarely get those. Most of the spam is aimed at an actual username of some form (frequently not one that even exists on my server, for example "accountant at ..." or "purchasing at ..."). I almost never get one that targets some random junk. But I got a run of over 200 hits in three days to the exact address that I supplied to AT&T even though none of the attempts resulted in a successful delivery (a successful delivery would feed back that the address was valid, all the attempts were rejected). From ale at horkan.net Wed Sep 3 16:20:40 2014 From: ale at horkan.net (Horkan Smith) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 16:20:40 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT(ish) Sold or stolen? In-Reply-To: <54077473.8050609@acarver.net> References: <540662DA.1080402@acarver.net> <372925805.20140902235900@sixit.com> <20140903160903.GA1544@horkan.net> <54077054.6080002@acarver.net> <20140903195629.GB1544@horkan.net> <54077473.8050609@acarver.net> Message-ID: <20140903202040.GC1544@horkan.net> Yup, that sounds like somebody had good reason to believe that address was real. later! horkan On Wed, Sep 03, 2014 at 01:05:07PM -0700, Alex Carver wrote: > On 2014-09-03 12:56, Horkan Smith wrote: > > At least in my case, it wasn't targeted random - I got *thousands* of machine-generated random usernames, probably tens of thousands in the logs. One or two of 'em happened to match something I'd used, purely by chance. > > Ah, I see. I actually very rarely get those. Most of the spam is aimed > at an actual username of some form (frequently not one that even exists > on my server, for example "accountant at ..." or "purchasing at ..."). I > almost never get one that targets some random junk. But I got a run of > over 200 hits in three days to the exact address that I supplied to AT&T > even though none of the attempts resulted in a successful delivery (a > successful delivery would feed back that the address was valid, all the > attempts were rejected). > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -- Horkan Smith 678-777-3263 cell, ale at horkan.net From bugyatl at gmail.com Wed Sep 3 16:59:18 2014 From: bugyatl at gmail.com (Boris Borisov) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 16:59:18 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT: VT technology in modern OS ? Message-ID: I just read the post for the Chromebook. In same time I have purchased Win 8 cheap laptop for my wife ( all because skype ). Just thinking. I can understand dualcore CPU that modern OS use but why is there VT present. Do modern OS's take advantage of VT technology to sandbox applications or is just unnecessary feature of the CPU ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdp at algoloma.com Wed Sep 3 17:18:55 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 17:18:55 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT(ish) Sold or stolen? In-Reply-To: <54077054.6080002@acarver.net> References: <540662DA.1080402@acarver.net> <372925805.20140902235900@sixit.com> <20140903160903.GA1544@horkan.net> <54077054.6080002@acarver.net> Message-ID: <540785BF.5000705@algoloma.com> If you don't want any spam use spam at domain.com - trust me, spammers won't spam you at that address for some reason. Don't forget to setup mike at domain.com as your spam training account. It will work great too. On 09/03/2014 03:47 PM, Alex Carver wrote: > On 2014-09-03 09:09, Horkan Smith wrote: >> You've probably checked and eliminated this, but I've had periods where the >> spammers sent loads of completely random email usernames that were >> obviously auto-generated. Every once in awhile, they've matched one of the >> ones I actually use. > > Yeah, these are generated as a mashup between a prefix (like 'att' or 'boa') > and a suffix that comes from something like pwgen or tempfile. So anyone > randomly spamming would have to guess the entity to spam and then come up > with the random sequence that fits what I have. > > It's not implemented in a way that is as complicated for places that use the > email address as the user login (since I have to remember it) but for this > use by AT&T, it's not the login so it's very complicated/random. From jkinney at jimkinney.us Wed Sep 3 18:45:43 2014 From: jkinney at jimkinney.us (Jim Kinney) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 18:45:43 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT: VT technology in modern OS ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <767f66ee-2d66-4a6c-bef4-b981081712e3@email.android.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 I think it's easier to leave it in that have multiple dies. It can be a security problem if black hat hacker installs code that puts running os into a VM next boot. Now all keystrokes can be logged with no os trace. On September 3, 2014 4:59:18 PM EDT, Boris Borisov wrote: >I just read the post for the Chromebook. In same time I have purchased >Win >8 cheap laptop for my wife ( all because skype ). Just thinking. I can >understand dualcore CPU that modern OS use but why is there VT present. >Do >modern OS's take advantage of VT technology to sandbox applications or >is >just unnecessary feature of the CPU ? >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: > >_______________________________________________ >Ale mailing list >Ale at ale.org >http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo - -- Jim Kinney Linux Systems Analyst Physicist/Brewer http://jimkinney.us -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: APG v1.1.1 iQJwBAEBCgBaBQJUB5oWUxxKaW0gS2lubmV5IChCcmV3ZXIsIFBoeXNpY2lzdCwg Q2F0IEhlcmRlciwgU3lzdGVtcyBBbmFseXN0KSA8amtpbm5leUBqaW1raW5uZXku dXM+AAoJEIm+DWlR6PEqKjoQAIz5v0yMfE791U+ad0oGrxeUn+OiPHmXMmf7LzuD 0smrrq2bwfgI0FX72W62vG0rGHerGxuB8KJDF3Zmx0rhHfpD2H2OVs1K6HP04uke tjX4K09cBd5H6etFm+GcL9xB9cXu90vYxZGhI5l0CixefYzVqBwkgSmRcliDdjpJ 0DATds//Ei3dSBRtnguGp0aAA/q3nHPinF+8QGILAI0nf7E9NwRH4eUlUGUa1miR SH/rp7GrUBDdi1AN9XKSVPmEBw1l730SsQhnXtlC+jAZw9MBnSgl5wS8oMqhmP38 bDleX759v0wTvzSGzB1wnNJs8aLpFl7eK3CxYdwgbmJmMTsvCGjGfWzxpQGMmHbz lAe5OcOf2QJMrqd2easlLQAmV2VOc6Vnt5auSeRzrgplC17PxedtMtVZNcAd55Y6 w3x+1KY7quMi0+YBktaq05+N7hVzfROJEH7pvQPULXo5OSgrlM3I/wfmGKNg1lpi YDp8k7lcHX9OGxmLJViu8JHBZeK2B1A6S/3Loh/XnXl2hOCLo8bThfTq/lmL491s sQh3ZEh0DYWSa+duKAJYN7jYXCY8s22JErhCRyCeHQ3tpY5KmZRLcyKGCX+Xqw02 t1a3dnwm4DLw7aXCns+Npy+jFJ4InaqevHEg2oPgxPq2WIcdhfEEqFWzBbCRMJi6 p83H =c13f -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From david at systemoverlord.com Wed Sep 3 18:58:26 2014 From: david at systemoverlord.com (David Tomaschik) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 15:58:26 -0700 Subject: [ale] for the hardware hacker who just bricked a on a flash upgrade In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: +1 for the Bus Pirate. I mostly use mine as a handy serial adapter for 3.3v serial (on embedded devices) but it's quite nice for JTAG (after bricking) and similar tasks. I keep meaning to poke at HDD controllers like http://spritesmods.com/?art=hddhack&page=1 On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 11:48 AM, Jim Kinney wrote: > http://dangerousprototypes.com/docs/Bus_Pirate > > This looks REALLY useful! found reference to it here: > http://johnlewis.ie/unbricking-a-samsung-series-5-550-chromebook/ > > As I'm looking to rewrite a chromebook for ulterior motives, I was digging > for some prior art on the process. > > so this machine: > > http://www.microcenter.com/product/430302/Pavilion_14-q029wm_14_Chromebook_Refurbished_-_Snow_White_in_Satin_Sparkle_Finish > > and add this external SSD combo: > > http://www.microcenter.com/product/434188/MX100_Series_256GB_SATA_25_Internal_Solid_State_Drive_CT256MX100SSD1 > > http://www.microcenter.com/product/353301/25_SATA_to_SuperSpeed_USB_30_External_Hard_Drive_Enclosure > > the enclosure lists Linux kernel support (yay!) > > and the $229 chromebook get's an upgrade. > > -- > -- > James P. Kinney III > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. > It won't fatten the dog. > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > * > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140903/e22a00aa/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- David Tomaschik OpenPGP: 0x5DEA789B http://systemoverlord.com david at systemoverlord.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From agcarver+ale at acarver.net Wed Sep 3 20:27:20 2014 From: agcarver+ale at acarver.net (Alex Carver) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 17:27:20 -0700 Subject: [ale] OT(ish) Sold or stolen? In-Reply-To: <540785BF.5000705@algoloma.com> References: <540662DA.1080402@acarver.net> <372925805.20140902235900@sixit.com> <20140903160903.GA1544@horkan.net> <54077054.6080002@acarver.net> <540785BF.5000705@algoloma.com> Message-ID: <5407B1E8.2070105@acarver.net> Well, I can't give them a bogus address because valid account and billing notices do come to that address. Until recently the only thing that came to that account were the notices. It was only recently that anyone attempted to spam it. On 2014-09-03 14:18, JD wrote: > If you don't want any spam use spam at domain.com - trust me, spammers won't spam > you at that address for some reason. > > Don't forget to setup mike at domain.com as your spam training account. It will > work great too. > > > On 09/03/2014 03:47 PM, Alex Carver wrote: >> On 2014-09-03 09:09, Horkan Smith wrote: >>> You've probably checked and eliminated this, but I've had periods where the >>> spammers sent loads of completely random email usernames that were >>> obviously auto-generated. Every once in awhile, they've matched one of the >>> ones I actually use. >> >> Yeah, these are generated as a mashup between a prefix (like 'att' or 'boa') >> and a suffix that comes from something like pwgen or tempfile. So anyone >> randomly spamming would have to guess the entity to spam and then come up >> with the random sequence that fits what I have. >> >> It's not implemented in a way that is as complicated for places that use the >> email address as the user login (since I have to remember it) but for this >> use by AT&T, it's not the login so it's very complicated/random. > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > From rb211 at tds.net Wed Sep 3 20:45:49 2014 From: rb211 at tds.net (William Bagwell) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 20:45:49 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT(ish) Sold or stolen? In-Reply-To: <5407B1E8.2070105@acarver.net> References: <540662DA.1080402@acarver.net> <540785BF.5000705@algoloma.com> <5407B1E8.2070105@acarver.net> Message-ID: <201409032045.49777.rb211@tds.net> I think JD's point was if you own a domain, spam at yourdomain.com *can be* a valid address. That said, I used (still do occasionally) 321nospam at myISP.net on Usenet and it gets tons of spam. Outsourced to Gmail with its aggressive filters and forwards to another address so I see almost none of it. Do recall seeing CCs to invalid variations of it with the word spam removed. William On Wednesday 03 September 2014, Alex Carver wrote: > Well, I can't give them a bogus address because valid account and > billing notices do come to that address. ?Until recently the only thing > that came to that account were the notices. ?It was only recently that > anyone attempted to spam it. From agcarver+ale at acarver.net Wed Sep 3 20:48:02 2014 From: agcarver+ale at acarver.net (Alex Carver) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 17:48:02 -0700 Subject: [ale] OT(ish) Sold or stolen? In-Reply-To: <201409032045.49777.rb211@tds.net> References: <540662DA.1080402@acarver.net> <540785BF.5000705@algoloma.com> <5407B1E8.2070105@acarver.net> <201409032045.49777.rb211@tds.net> Message-ID: <5407B6C2.1020003@acarver.net> Ah, I see. :) I've done alright so far with spamhaus and other filters. It's been pretty clean. Plus going to Gmail defeats my purpose of having the mail server which was precisely *not* to go to Gmail. :) On 2014-09-03 17:45, William Bagwell wrote: > I think JD's point was if you own a domain, spam at yourdomain.com *can be* a > valid address. That said, I used (still do occasionally) 321nospam at myISP.net > on Usenet and it gets tons of spam. Outsourced to Gmail with its aggressive > filters and forwards to another address so I see almost none of it. Do > recall seeing CCs to invalid variations of it with the word spam removed. > > William > > On Wednesday 03 September 2014, Alex Carver wrote: >> Well, I can't give them a bogus address because valid account and >> billing notices do come to that address. Until recently the only thing >> that came to that account were the notices. It was only recently that >> anyone attempted to spam it. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > From jdp at algoloma.com Wed Sep 3 21:01:00 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 21:01:00 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT(ish) Sold or stolen? In-Reply-To: <5407B6C2.1020003@acarver.net> References: <540662DA.1080402@acarver.net> <540785BF.5000705@algoloma.com> <5407B1E8.2070105@acarver.net> <201409032045.49777.rb211@tds.net> <5407B6C2.1020003@acarver.net> Message-ID: <5407B9CC.5010101@algoloma.com> I don't receive ANY spam on my spam at domain.com address (actually just an inbound alias). Get about 5 spams a week to my real addresses - using ... well let me get the filter settings now (all on 1 line): smtpd_recipient_restrictions = permit_mynetworks,reject_unauth_destination,reject_invalid_hostname,reject_n on_fqdn_recipient,check_client_access hash:/etc/postfix/rbl_override, reject_non _fqdn_sender, reject_unknown_sender_domain, reject_rbl_client dnsbl.njabl.org , reject_rbl_client cbl.abuseat.org , reject_rbl_client bl.spamcop.net , reject_rb l_client dnsbl.sorbs.net , reject_rbl_client sbl.spamhaus.org >From time to time, gmail and yahoomail are in those dnsbl ---- I see that as a good thing. It is a soft way to let people know who use those services that the service isn't perfect and those services ARE part of the problem. If there weren't free email addresses, people would be more accountable. Email providers would be blocked for abuse more often and the spammers wouldn't have free reign to spew their crap on the world without repercussions. At least, that is my theory, tonight, after 3 beers, while watching a little boob-tube. On 09/03/2014 08:48 PM, Alex Carver wrote: > Ah, I see. :) I've done alright so far with spamhaus and other filters. > It's been pretty clean. Plus going to Gmail defeats my purpose of > having the mail server which was precisely *not* to go to Gmail. :) > > On 2014-09-03 17:45, William Bagwell wrote: >> I think JD's point was if you own a domain, spam at yourdomain.com *can be* a >> valid address. That said, I used (still do occasionally) 321nospam at myISP.net >> on Usenet and it gets tons of spam. Outsourced to Gmail with its aggressive >> filters and forwards to another address so I see almost none of it. Do >> recall seeing CCs to invalid variations of it with the word spam removed. >> >> William >> >> On Wednesday 03 September 2014, Alex Carver wrote: >>> Well, I can't give them a bogus address because valid account and >>> billing notices do come to that address. Until recently the only thing >>> that came to that account were the notices. It was only recently that >>> anyone attempted to spam it. >> >> From ale at sixit.com Thu Sep 4 02:08:15 2014 From: ale at sixit.com (Robert Reese) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 02:08:15 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT(ish) Sold or stolen? In-Reply-To: <540696F9.3030204@acarver.net> References: <540662DA.1080402@acarver.net> <372925805.20140902235900@sixit.com> <540696F9.3030204@acarver.net> Message-ID: <511738325.20140904020815@sixit.com> Hello Alex, Wednesday, September 3, 2014, 12:20:09 AM, you wrote: > On 2014-09-02 20:59, Robert Reese wrote: >> Hello Alex, >> Tuesday, September 2, 2014, 8:37:46 PM, you wrote: >>> I never gave anyone else that particular alias, I don't use it as a >>> username for my online account access, it's not stored in my phone or on >>> any address books, and I don't send email from it (receive only alias). >> I do something similar, and there are three possibilities that I see: >> 1: AT&T indeed either sold your email address or had some email address data stolen from them. >> 2: Your own server has been infiltrated. >> 3: Somewhere between AT&T's email servers and your email servers has been compromised where data is being intercepted. "Pharming" at one time was the phrase, but that's since been absconded. >> I suspect #3 is the most likely culprit. This is one of the reasons people shouldn't send confidential or sensitive information via unencrypted email, even in an attachment. > I know my server is ok, I check it every day and keep it patched. > Number 3 would be very interesting since the email never leaves AT&T's > networks (I have UVerse). I still suspect it's a case of stolen or sold > but I have very little control over the contents of the emails that AT&T > sends to me (part of the reason I use my own server). I don't have > statements come by email but I don't have a way to opt out of any other > communications. I find it highly unlikely it has been imprisoned on the Death Star's core all this time without some sort of escape attempt. Are you absolutely sure it has never ventured outside of AT&T's own little world? Has your email address ever seen a third-party's light of day, maybe moonlighting as official AT&T business? I must assume AT&T has affiliates or marketing partners. Cheers, Robert~ From agcarver+ale at acarver.net Thu Sep 4 02:21:02 2014 From: agcarver+ale at acarver.net (Alex Carver) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 23:21:02 -0700 Subject: [ale] OT(ish) Sold or stolen? In-Reply-To: <511738325.20140904020815@sixit.com> References: <540662DA.1080402@acarver.net> <372925805.20140902235900@sixit.com> <540696F9.3030204@acarver.net> <511738325.20140904020815@sixit.com> Message-ID: <540804CE.4080909@acarver.net> On 2014-09-03 23:08, Robert Reese wrote: > I find it highly unlikely it has been imprisoned on the Death Star's core all this time without some sort of escape attempt. Are you absolutely sure it has never ventured outside of AT&T's own little world? Has your email address ever seen a third-party's light of day, maybe moonlighting as official AT&T business? I must assume AT&T has affiliates or marketing partners. > I know, it went down the garbage chute into the trash compactors. :) The sale or theft of the address is an interesting question which is why I brought it up. In theory (meaning actually reading it and doing what it says), their own TOS states that the email used for billing is not supposed to go to any affiliates or other marketing partners. If they did sell it or hand it over to an affiliate then that violated their own TOS. In the two plus years that I used that particular address with them I've never received an email from anyone outside of AT&T that was any form of marketing pitch. The only emails that particular address has ever seen were billing messages (statement ready for viewing, bill reminders, etc.) direct from AT&T. Nor have I ever seen an attempt in the logs to try and send to that address. So it's really a case of them leaking it out. I'll won't know for sure if they simply violated their TOS because they felt like it or if someone broke in. I can only wait and see what happens with the new address. From bugyatl at gmail.com Thu Sep 4 07:48:05 2014 From: bugyatl at gmail.com (Boris Borisov) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 07:48:05 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT: mini PC Message-ID: http://linuxgizmos.com/android-4-4-mini-pc-packs-64-bit-quad-core-atom-punch/ Is this kind of devices can be named PC. PC for me have BIOS that loads the first sector of boot device which takes over. These devices are having uboot for boot loader that loads Linux kernel primarily so is very custom. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Thu Sep 4 08:38:54 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 08:38:54 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT: mini PC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Cool! That has Linux thin-client written all over it. 32G storage is enough to hold local OS and X for an X2Go connection to a main server. On Sep 4, 2014 7:53 AM, "Boris Borisov" wrote: > > http://linuxgizmos.com/android-4-4-mini-pc-packs-64-bit-quad-core-atom-punch/ > > Is this kind of devices can be named PC. PC for me have BIOS that loads the > first sector of boot device which takes over. These devices are having > uboot for boot loader that loads Linux kernel primarily so is very custom. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140904/94007ee5/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdp at algoloma.com Thu Sep 4 09:52:55 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 09:52:55 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT: mini PC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <54086EB7.6040901@algoloma.com> Or an x86 chromebook could be used - portable, keybaord, screen included. I'd wonder about 1080p video performance too. Didn't see any mention of that in the specs. For a remote desktop, there are $60 options ... usually running Arm CPUs. Don't know if x2go has been ported to Arm or not - it is nice on current x86 distros, however. Just be certain to get the Windows x2go client from August or later to avoid some nasty server-side CPU issues. On 09/04/2014 08:38 AM, Jim Kinney wrote: > Cool! That has Linux thin-client written all over it. 32G storage is enough > to hold local OS and X for an X2Go connection to a main server. > On Sep 4, 2014 7:53 AM, "Boris Borisov" wrote: > >> >> http://linuxgizmos.com/android-4-4-mini-pc-packs-64-bit-quad-core-atom-punch/ >> >> Is this kind of devices can be named PC. PC for me have BIOS that loads the >> first sector of boot device which takes over. These devices are having >> uboot for boot loader that loads Linux kernel primarily so is very custom. >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: < >> http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140904/94007ee5/attachment.html >>> From millia at panix.com Thu Sep 4 11:02:14 2014 From: millia at panix.com (David Millians) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 11:02:14 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT(ish) Sold or stolen? In-Reply-To: <540804CE.4080909@acarver.net> References: <540662DA.1080402@acarver.net> <372925805.20140902235900@sixit.com> <540696F9.3030204@acarver.net> <511738325.20140904020815@sixit.com> <540804CE.4080909@acarver.net> Message-ID: <54087EF6.7000803@panix.com> On 9/4/2014 2:21 AM, Alex Carver wrote: > In the two plus years that I used that particular address with them I've > never received an email from anyone outside of AT&T that was any form of > marketing pitch. The only emails that particular address has ever seen > were billing messages (statement ready for viewing, bill reminders, > etc.) direct from AT&T. Nor have I ever seen an attempt in the logs to > try and send to that address. So it's really a case of them leaking it > out. I'll won't know for sure if they simply violated their TOS because > they felt like it or if someone broke in. I can only wait and see what > happens with the new address. Personally, I would say that after, say, a month of no results has happened, I'd call their executive level ombudsman. TOS means lawyers; lawyers means lawsuits, and class action lawsuits are pesky. And violating TOS means you can break contracts, too. That'd be a lovely loophole for people to use. All of the above means somebody up top needs to know about it. Neither option is good. Barring that, I'd take it to consumerist. The rock and a hard place aspect of this would be great fun for them, I'm sure. From brian.schenken at gmail.com Thu Sep 4 11:10:13 2014 From: brian.schenken at gmail.com (Brian Schenken) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 11:10:13 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT(ish) Sold or stolen? In-Reply-To: <54087EF6.7000803@panix.com> References: <540662DA.1080402@acarver.net> <372925805.20140902235900@sixit.com> <540696F9.3030204@acarver.net> <511738325.20140904020815@sixit.com> <540804CE.4080909@acarver.net> <54087EF6.7000803@panix.com> Message-ID: Is it possible that you picked up a bit of spyware or malware on your one of your own machines? They love to crack open email clients and harvest addresses... On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 11:02 AM, David Millians wrote: > > On 9/4/2014 2:21 AM, Alex Carver wrote: > >> In the two plus years that I used that particular address with them I've >> never received an email from anyone outside of AT&T that was any form of >> marketing pitch. The only emails that particular address has ever seen >> were billing messages (statement ready for viewing, bill reminders, >> etc.) direct from AT&T. Nor have I ever seen an attempt in the logs to >> try and send to that address. So it's really a case of them leaking it >> out. I'll won't know for sure if they simply violated their TOS because >> they felt like it or if someone broke in. I can only wait and see what >> happens with the new address. >> > > Personally, I would say that after, say, a month of no results has > happened, I'd call their executive level ombudsman. TOS means lawyers; > lawyers means lawsuits, and class action lawsuits are pesky. And violating > TOS means you can break contracts, too. That'd be a lovely loophole for > people to use. All of the above means somebody up top needs to know about > it. Neither option is good. > > Barring that, I'd take it to consumerist. The rock and a hard place aspect > of this would be great fun for them, I'm sure. > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From byronjeff at mail.clayton.edu Thu Sep 4 11:52:25 2014 From: byronjeff at mail.clayton.edu (Byron Jeff) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 11:52:25 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT: mini PC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140904155225.GA22407@mail.clayton.edu> On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 08:38:54AM -0400, Jim Kinney wrote: > Cool! That has Linux thin-client written all over it. 32G storage is enough > to hold local OS and X for an X2Go connection to a main server. One big downfall and one big question on this one. Downfall: USB 2.0 is a non starter. While EMMC is good, USB 3.0 is really needed to get decent connectivity to external drives if the goal is to use this as a slient server. Question: Is there accelerated graphics drivers for anything other than Android 4.4? As for the 'PC' designation, it isn't a trademark. Anything can call itself a PC. In its most generic configuration, any box that can be used as a Personal Computer and has the ability to boot an OS in any fashing really can be considered a PC. BAJ > On Sep 4, 2014 7:53 AM, "Boris Borisov" wrote: > > > > > http://linuxgizmos.com/android-4-4-mini-pc-packs-64-bit-quad-core-atom-punch/ > > > > Is this kind of devices can be named PC. PC for me have BIOS that loads the > > first sector of boot device which takes over. These devices are having > > uboot for boot loader that loads Linux kernel primarily so is very custom. > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140904/94007ee5/attachment.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -- Byron A. Jeff Chair: Department of Computer Science and Information Technology College of Information and Mathematical Sciences Clayton State University http://faculty.clayton.edu/bjeff From jdp at algoloma.com Thu Sep 4 12:45:04 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 12:45:04 -0400 Subject: [ale] [ANNC] - ALE-NW InstallFest 2014! Message-ID: <54089710.3080207@algoloma.com> In just over 2 weeks, it is time for the 4th Annual ALE-NW InstallFest at SPSU! We've scheduled it for Saturday, 9/20, this year. --------------------- Volunteers Needed It is time to ask for volunteers to help with assorted "things" for a few hours that day. Everything from greeters, to helping people install CentOS on a laptop with wifi-only networking, and UEFI BIOS. Fun, fun. Of course, normal installs happen too. There is something satisfying about wiping the old OS from a HDD. ;) So - if you can volunteer for a few hours on 9/20, please let me know off-list. Last year we were slightly short on volunteers, which made it a very long day for the core people. A few hours in the morning or afternoon really is helpful! No requirement to be an expert either. Just some experience doing an install is all that we need. Some of the installs are for people who have only heard of Linux, so anybody with more experience is extremely helpful! ---------------------- Help Advertise Please help get the word out to other technology groups around metro Atlanta too. We have a diverse group of members in ALE, please use those contacts to post the announcement to other groups where it makes sense. Java, php, ruby, perl, python, DevOps, and Security groups should be contacted. ---------------------- When/Where When: 9/20 10am until 5pm (Saturday) Where: SPSU J-266 (Atrium Bldg) ---------------------- Installer Logistics === Pre-Install Work * Defrag any Windows Partitions (critical for virtual machine installs, but also for shrinking partitions) * For MBR systems, shrink partitions to make room for 2 more partitions for Linux (/ 15G-25G and swap 2G or RAM size) * For GPT/UEFI systems, just shrink the available storage so that 15G-25G is free. * If the GPT/MBR question isn't understood, come earlier in the day and be prepared for massive data movement. * Backup the system BEFORE coming to the InstallFest. Data and OS loss can happen, though unlikely. === What to Bring * PC (the "hard drive" part) * USB Flash drive that can boot YOUR PC * long network cable * Excitement + Great Attitude! This is fun stuff! * Patience - most of the time, Linux will install easily. Sometimes it is less easy. We will have switch ports, a few current Linux ISOs, VirtualBox binaries for Windows, knowledge from performing many, many, installations over the years. We will also have monitors, keyboards, mice available and a limited number of ethernet cables. Wifi connections are only possible for SPSU students. We are NOT allowed to setup a wifi-hotspot. ---------------------- Please Volunteer! Think of this as an opportunity to raise your installation skills on someone elses' PC, with the watchful eyes of experts available, if that helps. ;) It is a great way to see how well the different Linux installations slide onto different hardware too. Your help is needed to make this community outreach as successful as possible. ---------------------- Sponsors Needed If anyone would like to sponsor this event, please contact me off list. From ale at sixit.com Thu Sep 4 14:03:24 2014 From: ale at sixit.com (Robert Reese) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 14:03:24 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT(ish) Sold or stolen? In-Reply-To: <540804CE.4080909@acarver.net> References: <540662DA.1080402@acarver.net> <372925805.20140902235900@sixit.com> <540696F9.3030204@acarver.net> <511738325.20140904020815@sixit.com> <540804CE.4080909@acarver.net> Message-ID: <15661241.20140904140324@sixit.com> Hello Alex, Thursday, September 4, 2014, 2:21:02 AM, you wrote: > On 2014-09-03 23:08, Robert Reese wrote: >> I find it highly unlikely it has been imprisoned on the Death Star's core all this time without some sort of escape attempt. Are you absolutely sure it has never ventured outside of AT&T's own little world? Has your email address ever seen a third-party's light of day, maybe moonlighting as official AT&T business? I must assume AT&T has affiliates or marketing partners. > I know, it went down the garbage chute into the trash compactors. :) > The sale or theft of the address is an interesting question which is why > I brought it up. In theory (meaning actually reading it and doing what > it says), their own TOS states that the email used for billing is not > supposed to go to any affiliates or other marketing partners. If they > did sell it or hand it over to an affiliate then that violated their own > TOS. Are there any hops between AT&T email servers and your email servers? If not, it sounds like someone screwed up inside AT&T, either by providing the wrong list or letting a server get hacked. Obviously the latter would be a news-worthy event. You might consider passing the lead off to WSB-TV and see if it grows legs. Cheers, Robert~ From damon at damtek.com Thu Sep 4 20:35:09 2014 From: damon at damtek.com (Damon L. Chesser) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 20:35:09 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT: mini PC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5409053D.1010907@damtek.com> Hmmm, Been thinking about the Orangebox, but at about $15K that is a bit steep. Wonder if this can be rigged up to provide a "cloud in a box" for lab POC? At $150 each, if you can connect storage and network it is starting to look attractive indeed. not for any real work, but for learning OpenStack goodness. On 09/04/2014 07:48 AM, Boris Borisov wrote: > http://linuxgizmos.com/android-4-4-mini-pc-packs-64-bit-quad-core-atom-punch/ > > Is this kind of devices can be named PC. PC for me have BIOS that loads the > first sector of boot device which takes over. These devices are having > uboot for boot loader that loads Linux kernel primarily so is very custom. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -- Damon at damtek.com 404-271-8699 From agcarver+ale at acarver.net Thu Sep 4 22:14:10 2014 From: agcarver+ale at acarver.net (Alex Carver) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 19:14:10 -0700 Subject: [ale] OT(ish) Sold or stolen? In-Reply-To: References: <540662DA.1080402@acarver.net> <372925805.20140902235900@sixit.com> <540696F9.3030204@acarver.net> <511738325.20140904020815@sixit.com> <540804CE.4080909@acarver.net> <54087EF6.7000803@panix.com> Message-ID: <54091C72.9090206@acarver.net> No, aside from the fact that all machines are scanned regularly (and that I use mutt to read my email ;) ), these addresses are aliases rather than usable addresses. I don't send messages from them and when I receive messages they have already been rewritten to go to my regular account address. The aliases only show up in the exim logs during the rewrite. The spyware/malware would have to be pretty fantastic to gather log files from a completely different machine and figure out the aliases. :) On 2014-09-04 08:10, Brian Schenken wrote: > Is it possible that you picked up a bit of spyware or malware on your one > of your own machines? They love to crack open email clients and harvest > addresses... > > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 11:02 AM, David Millians wrote: > >> >> On 9/4/2014 2:21 AM, Alex Carver wrote: >> >>> In the two plus years that I used that particular address with them I've >>> never received an email from anyone outside of AT&T that was any form of >>> marketing pitch. The only emails that particular address has ever seen >>> were billing messages (statement ready for viewing, bill reminders, >>> etc.) direct from AT&T. Nor have I ever seen an attempt in the logs to >>> try and send to that address. So it's really a case of them leaking it >>> out. I'll won't know for sure if they simply violated their TOS because >>> they felt like it or if someone broke in. I can only wait and see what >>> happens with the new address. >>> >> >> Personally, I would say that after, say, a month of no results has >> happened, I'd call their executive level ombudsman. TOS means lawyers; >> lawyers means lawsuits, and class action lawsuits are pesky. And violating >> TOS means you can break contracts, too. That'd be a lovely loophole for >> people to use. All of the above means somebody up top needs to know about >> it. Neither option is good. >> >> Barring that, I'd take it to consumerist. The rock and a hard place aspect >> of this would be great fun for them, I'm sure. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > From agcarver+ale at acarver.net Thu Sep 4 22:20:26 2014 From: agcarver+ale at acarver.net (Alex Carver) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 19:20:26 -0700 Subject: [ale] OT(ish) Sold or stolen? In-Reply-To: <15661241.20140904140324@sixit.com> References: <540662DA.1080402@acarver.net> <372925805.20140902235900@sixit.com> <540696F9.3030204@acarver.net> <511738325.20140904020815@sixit.com> <540804CE.4080909@acarver.net> <15661241.20140904140324@sixit.com> Message-ID: <54091DEA.7000802@acarver.net> On 2014-09-04 11:03, Robert Reese wrote: > Hello Alex, > > Thursday, September 4, 2014, 2:21:02 AM, you wrote: > >> On 2014-09-03 23:08, Robert Reese wrote: > >>> I find it highly unlikely it has been imprisoned on the Death Star's core all this time without some sort of escape attempt. Are you absolutely sure it has never ventured outside of AT&T's own little world? Has your email address ever seen a third-party's light of day, maybe moonlighting as official AT&T business? I must assume AT&T has affiliates or marketing partners. > > >> I know, it went down the garbage chute into the trash compactors. :) > >> The sale or theft of the address is an interesting question which is why >> I brought it up. In theory (meaning actually reading it and doing what >> it says), their own TOS states that the email used for billing is not >> supposed to go to any affiliates or other marketing partners. If they >> did sell it or hand it over to an affiliate then that violated their own >> TOS. > > Are there any hops between AT&T email servers and your email servers? > > If not, it sounds like someone screwed up inside AT&T, either by providing the wrong list or letting a server get hacked. Obviously the latter would be a news-worthy event. You might consider passing the lead off to WSB-TV and see if it grows legs. There are plenty of hops but none of them exit AT&T's own network. I certainly would consider the media especially if the new random one I created starts to be used by others. They promised me a phone call and never returned that call (of course). From agcarver+ale at acarver.net Thu Sep 4 22:21:20 2014 From: agcarver+ale at acarver.net (Alex Carver) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 19:21:20 -0700 Subject: [ale] OT(ish) Sold or stolen? In-Reply-To: <54087EF6.7000803@panix.com> References: <540662DA.1080402@acarver.net> <372925805.20140902235900@sixit.com> <540696F9.3030204@acarver.net> <511738325.20140904020815@sixit.com> <540804CE.4080909@acarver.net> <54087EF6.7000803@panix.com> Message-ID: <54091E20.6060100@acarver.net> On 2014-09-04 08:02, David Millians wrote: > > On 9/4/2014 2:21 AM, Alex Carver wrote: >> In the two plus years that I used that particular address with them I've >> never received an email from anyone outside of AT&T that was any form of >> marketing pitch. The only emails that particular address has ever seen >> were billing messages (statement ready for viewing, bill reminders, >> etc.) direct from AT&T. Nor have I ever seen an attempt in the logs to >> try and send to that address. So it's really a case of them leaking it >> out. I'll won't know for sure if they simply violated their TOS because >> they felt like it or if someone broke in. I can only wait and see what >> happens with the new address. > > Personally, I would say that after, say, a month of no results has > happened, I'd call their executive level ombudsman. TOS means lawyers; > lawyers means lawsuits, and class action lawsuits are pesky. And > violating TOS means you can break contracts, too. That'd be a lovely > loophole for people to use. All of the above means somebody up top needs > to know about it. Neither option is good. I think that's a good idea. They did promise to give me a call a couple hours after I reported this to them and I've not received a call in two days. From bugyatl at gmail.com Fri Sep 5 07:55:29 2014 From: bugyatl at gmail.com (Boris Borisov) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 07:55:29 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not Message-ID: http://www.technewsworld.com/story/80980.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.sumners at gmail.com Fri Sep 5 08:30:01 2014 From: james.sumners at gmail.com (James Sumners) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 08:30:01 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I stopped using Arch Linux because they forced systemd on us (me). I'm thoroughly disappointed that the next release of Debian is also forcing a move to it. But, really, they don't have an option: "In November 2012, the GNOME Project concluded that basic GNOME functionality should not rely on systemd.[16] However, in contradiction of this statement, GNOME 3.8 introduced a *de facto* dependency on systemd by introducing session management behaviors which depend on how systemd operates. While the developers of Gentoo Linux attempted to adapt these changes in OpenRC , the implementation contained too many bugs, causing the distribution to mark systemd as a dependency of GNOME." -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd#GNOME_integration So, a distribution either _doesn't_ include GNOME (no loss in my opinion, but people do like it), or it includes GNOME at the cost of also having to include systemd. What it comes down to is the developers of systemd. This package is brought to you by the same person who gave us the wonderfully useless and awful Pulse Audio system. And his cohorts routinely draw the ire of others: https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/4/2/420 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=76935 (whole thing is worth reading for much enlightenment) So, we have a project run by people who like to force their software onto others by getting it included as a non-optional dependency who then go on to not give a damn about what their bugs break or whom they affect. Now, they want to take over the whole damn system -- http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html I agree with the "systemd is a trojan" statement. I very much agree with it. On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 7:55 AM, Boris Borisov wrote: > http://www.technewsworld.com/story/80980.html > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140905/1d544ab0/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- James Sumners http://james.roomfullofmirrors.com/ "All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted." Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto) CH:D 59 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JLightner at dsservices.com Fri Sep 5 09:06:47 2014 From: JLightner at dsservices.com (Lightner, Jeff) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 13:06:47 +0000 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EABA19@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> RHEL7 also uses systemd. >From everything I've seen systemd is the way the Linux world has been going for a while now so fighting it is a losing battle. -----Original Message----- From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of James Sumners Sent: Friday, September 05, 2014 8:31 AM To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [ale] systemd or not I stopped using Arch Linux because they forced systemd on us (me). I'm thoroughly disappointed that the next release of Debian is also forcing a move to it. But, really, they don't have an option: "In November 2012, the GNOME Project concluded that basic GNOME functionality should not rely on systemd.[16] However, in contradiction of this statement, GNOME 3.8 introduced a *de facto* dependency on systemd by introducing session management behaviors which depend on how systemd operates. While the developers of Gentoo Linux attempted to adapt these changes in OpenRC , the implementation contained too many bugs, causing the distribution to mark systemd as a dependency of GNOME." -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd#GNOME_integration So, a distribution either _doesn't_ include GNOME (no loss in my opinion, but people do like it), or it includes GNOME at the cost of also having to include systemd. What it comes down to is the developers of systemd. This package is brought to you by the same person who gave us the wonderfully useless and awful Pulse Audio system. And his cohorts routinely draw the ire of others: https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/4/2/420 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=76935 (whole thing is worth reading for much enlightenment) So, we have a project run by people who like to force their software onto others by getting it included as a non-optional dependency who then go on to not give a damn about what their bugs break or whom they affect. Now, they want to take over the whole damn system -- http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html I agree with the "systemd is a trojan" statement. I very much agree with it. On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 7:55 AM, Boris Borisov wrote: > http://www.technewsworld.com/story/80980.html > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was > scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140905/1d544ab0/attach > ment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- James Sumners http://james.roomfullofmirrors.com/ "All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted." Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto) CH:D 59 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo Athena(r), Created for the Cause(tm) Making a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Cancer __________________________________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged or confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you From james.sumners at gmail.com Fri Sep 5 09:18:46 2014 From: james.sumners at gmail.com (James Sumners) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 09:18:46 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EABA19@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> References: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EABA19@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> Message-ID: Not sure why that would have hit ale-bounces. I just checked, and my subscription is still active... I know RHEL7 uses systemd. Outside of work, I don't use RHEL. So they can basically do whatever they want and I'll just deal with it for the pay check. On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 9:06 AM, Lightner, Jeff wrote: > RHEL7 also uses systemd. > > From everything I've seen systemd is the way the Linux world has been > going for a while now so fighting it is a losing battle. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of James > Sumners > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2014 8:31 AM > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts > Subject: Re: [ale] systemd or not > > I stopped using Arch Linux because they forced systemd on us (me). I'm > thoroughly disappointed that the next release of Debian is also forcing a > move to it. But, really, they don't have an option: > > "In November 2012, the GNOME Project concluded that basic GNOME > functionality should not rely on systemd.[16] < > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd#cite_note-16> However, in > contradiction of this statement, GNOME 3.8 introduced a *de facto* > dependency on systemd by introducing session management behaviors which > depend on how systemd operates. While the developers of Gentoo Linux < > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentoo_Linux>attempted to adapt these > changes in OpenRC , the > implementation contained too many bugs, causing the distribution to mark > systemd as a dependency of GNOME." -- > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd#GNOME_integration > > So, a distribution either _doesn't_ include GNOME (no loss in my opinion, > but people do like it), or it includes GNOME at the cost of also having to > include systemd. > > What it comes down to is the developers of systemd. This package is > brought to you by the same person who gave us the wonderfully useless and > awful Pulse Audio system. And his cohorts routinely draw the ire of others: > > https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/4/2/420 > https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=76935 (whole thing is worth > reading for much enlightenment) > > So, we have a project run by people who like to force their software onto > others by getting it included as a non-optional dependency who then go on > to not give a damn about what their bugs break or whom they affect. Now, > they want to take over the whole damn system -- > http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html > > I agree with the "systemd is a trojan" statement. I very much agree with > it. > > > On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 7:55 AM, Boris Borisov wrote: > > > http://www.technewsworld.com/story/80980.html > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was > > scrubbed... > > URL: < > > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140905/1d544ab0/attach > > ment.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > > > -- > James Sumners > http://james.roomfullofmirrors.com/ > > "All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological > personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the > corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a > condition to which they are quickly addicted." > > Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto) CH:D 59 > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140905/63cf44e4/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > Athena(r), Created for the Cause(tm) > Making a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Cancer > > __________________________________________________________ > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged > > or confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended > > recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, > > copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information > > is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic > > transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that > > you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- James Sumners http://james.roomfullofmirrors.com/ "All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted." Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto) CH:D 59 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pizza at shaftnet.org Fri Sep 5 09:19:50 2014 From: pizza at shaftnet.org (Solomon Peachy) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 09:19:50 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EABA19@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> References: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EABA19@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> Message-ID: <20140905131949.GA18484@shaftnet.org> On Fri, Sep 05, 2014 at 01:06:47PM +0000, Lightner, Jeff wrote: > RHEL7 also uses systemd. > > From everything I've seen systemd is the way the Linux world has been > going for a while now so fighting it is a losing battle. The oft-unmentioned reason the Linux world is moving there is that under any *objective* measure, systemd is vastly superior to what it's replacing. (But hey, it's far easier to just complain on the internet than it is to actually do useful work towards solving the problem. That's the real reason ConsoleKit remains unmaintained to this day...) - Solomon -- Solomon Peachy pizza at shaftnet dot org Delray Beach, FL ^^ (email/xmpp) ^^ Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 155 bytes Desc: not available URL: From leamhall at gmail.com Fri Sep 5 09:27:12 2014 From: leamhall at gmail.com (leam hall) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 09:27:12 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: <20140905131949.GA18484@shaftnet.org> References: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EABA19@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> <20140905131949.GA18484@shaftnet.org> Message-ID: The issue is that people who work in enterprises have to support more than one OS. I just complained about this on a RH list for the same reason. Solaris SMF is in the same trash pile. The chkconfig stuff was great in that it gave you an interface to standard init scripts. If you have application dependencies they need to be in the application scripts, not at the OS's level of control. On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 9:19 AM, Solomon Peachy wrote: > On Fri, Sep 05, 2014 at 01:06:47PM +0000, Lightner, Jeff wrote: >> RHEL7 also uses systemd. >> >> From everything I've seen systemd is the way the Linux world has been >> going for a while now so fighting it is a losing battle. > > The oft-unmentioned reason the Linux world is moving there is that under > any *objective* measure, systemd is vastly superior to what it's > replacing. > > (But hey, it's far easier to just complain on the internet than it is to > actually do useful work towards solving the problem. That's the real > reason ConsoleKit remains unmaintained to this day...) > > - Solomon > -- > Solomon Peachy pizza at shaftnet dot org > Delray Beach, FL ^^ (email/xmpp) ^^ > Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur. > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: not available > Type: application/pgp-signature > Size: 155 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -- Mind on a Mission From allen at ua.edu Fri Sep 5 09:31:44 2014 From: allen at ua.edu (Beddingfield, Allen) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 13:31:44 +0000 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EABA19@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> References: , <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EABA19@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> Message-ID: SUSE has switched to it for the upcoming SLES 12, and openSUSE switched a while back.... I hate it, but I have no other choice than to use it. Allen B. -- Allen Beddingfield Systems Engineer The University of Alabama ________________________________________ From: ale-bounces at ale.org [ale-bounces at ale.org] on behalf of Lightner, Jeff [JLightner at dsservices.com] Sent: Friday, September 05, 2014 8:06 AM To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [ale] systemd or not RHEL7 also uses systemd. >From everything I've seen systemd is the way the Linux world has been going for a while now so fighting it is a losing battle. -----Original Message----- From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of James Sumners Sent: Friday, September 05, 2014 8:31 AM To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [ale] systemd or not I stopped using Arch Linux because they forced systemd on us (me). I'm thoroughly disappointed that the next release of Debian is also forcing a move to it. But, really, they don't have an option: "In November 2012, the GNOME Project concluded that basic GNOME functionality should not rely on systemd.[16] However, in contradiction of this statement, GNOME 3.8 introduced a *de facto* dependency on systemd by introducing session management behaviors which depend on how systemd operates. While the developers of Gentoo Linux attempted to adapt these changes in OpenRC , the implementation contained too many bugs, causing the distribution to mark systemd as a dependency of GNOME." -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd#GNOME_integration So, a distribution either _doesn't_ include GNOME (no loss in my opinion, but people do like it), or it includes GNOME at the cost of also having to include systemd. What it comes down to is the developers of systemd. This package is brought to you by the same person who gave us the wonderfully useless and awful Pulse Audio system. And his cohorts routinely draw the ire of others: https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/4/2/420 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=76935 (whole thing is worth reading for much enlightenment) So, we have a project run by people who like to force their software onto others by getting it included as a non-optional dependency who then go on to not give a damn about what their bugs break or whom they affect. Now, they want to take over the whole damn system -- http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html I agree with the "systemd is a trojan" statement. I very much agree with it. On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 7:55 AM, Boris Borisov wrote: > http://www.technewsworld.com/story/80980.html > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was > scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140905/1d544ab0/attach > ment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- James Sumners http://james.roomfullofmirrors.com/ "All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted." Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto) CH:D 59 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo Athena(r), Created for the Cause(tm) Making a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Cancer __________________________________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged or confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo From pizza at shaftnet.org Fri Sep 5 09:41:18 2014 From: pizza at shaftnet.org (Solomon Peachy) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 09:41:18 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: References: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EABA19@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> <20140905131949.GA18484@shaftnet.org> Message-ID: <20140905134117.GA17519@shaftnet.org> On Fri, Sep 05, 2014 at 09:27:12AM -0400, leam hall wrote: > The issue is that people who work in enterprises have to support more > than one OS. I just complained about this on a RH list for the same > reason. Solaris SMF is in the same trash pile. So.. you're seriously complaining that different OSes are... different? > The chkconfig stuff was great in that it gave you an interface to > standard init scripts. If you have application dependencies they need > to be in the application scripts, not at the OS's level of control. chkconfig only tells you if something is enabled; not if it's actually running. It doesn't handle dependencies and doesn't make sure if things are in a sane state. And it certianly doesn't make sure the application scripts do the right things, track errors and otherwise ensure your dependencies are actually running (or shutting down) properly. As I've said, systemd isn't perfect. But it's considerably less awful than what it's replacing. - Solomon -- Solomon Peachy pizza at shaftnet dot org Delray Beach, FL ^^ (email/xmpp) ^^ Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 155 bytes Desc: not available URL: From JLightner at dsservices.com Fri Sep 5 09:49:02 2014 From: JLightner at dsservices.com (Lightner, Jeff) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 13:49:02 +0000 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: <20140905134117.GA17519@shaftnet.org> References: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EABA19@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> <20140905131949.GA18484@shaftnet.org> <20140905134117.GA17519@shaftnet.org> Message-ID: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EABB52@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> I was listing RHEL7 as ANOTHER distro that is now using it. I was not suggesting people should use systemd because of RHEL7 but rather suggesting that multiple distros have moved that way in later versions including RHEL7 so it appears people will have to learn to use it. Athena(r), Created for the Cause(tm) Making a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Cancer __________________________________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged or confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you From mike at trausch.us Fri Sep 5 09:50:51 2014 From: mike at trausch.us (Michael Trausch) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 09:50:51 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Will explain later---but you WANT systemd. Really. It's much, MUCH more efficient. And allows you to have a 4 package system, essentially. And makes a lot of sense to work with once you get to know it well. Sent from my iPad > On Sep 5, 2014, at 8:30 AM, James Sumners wrote: > > I stopped using Arch Linux because they forced systemd on us (me). I'm > thoroughly disappointed that the next release of Debian is also forcing a > move to it. But, really, they don't have an option: > > "In November 2012, the GNOME Project concluded that basic GNOME > functionality should not rely on systemd.[16] > However, in > contradiction of this statement, GNOME 3.8 introduced a *de facto* dependency > on systemd by introducing session management behaviors which depend on how > systemd operates. While the developers of Gentoo Linux > attempted to adapt these changes > in OpenRC , the implementation > contained too many bugs, causing the distribution to mark systemd as a > dependency of GNOME." -- > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd#GNOME_integration > > So, a distribution either _doesn't_ include GNOME (no loss in my opinion, > but people do like it), or it includes GNOME at the cost of also having to > include systemd. > > What it comes down to is the developers of systemd. This package is brought > to you by the same person who gave us the wonderfully useless and awful > Pulse Audio system. And his cohorts routinely draw the ire of others: > > https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/4/2/420 > https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=76935 (whole thing is worth > reading for much enlightenment) > > So, we have a project run by people who like to force their software onto > others by getting it included as a non-optional dependency who then go on > to not give a damn about what their bugs break or whom they affect. Now, > they want to take over the whole damn system -- > http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html > > I agree with the "systemd is a trojan" statement. I very much agree with it. > > >> On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 7:55 AM, Boris Borisov wrote: >> >> http://www.technewsworld.com/story/80980.html >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: < >> http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140905/1d544ab0/attachment.html >> _______________________________________________ >> Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > -- > James Sumners > http://james.roomfullofmirrors.com/ > > "All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological > personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the > corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a > condition to which they are quickly addicted." > > Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto) > CH:D 59 > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo From allen at ua.edu Fri Sep 5 09:53:23 2014 From: allen at ua.edu (Beddingfield, Allen) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 13:53:23 +0000 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: <20140905134117.GA17519@shaftnet.org> References: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EABA19@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> <20140905131949.GA18484@shaftnet.org> , <20140905134117.GA17519@shaftnet.org> Message-ID: Meh, I just want it to make an attempt at starting/stopping and then get out of the way. I'll take simplicity over functionality. Honestly, the BSD-style approach is fine by me. I'm glad that SUSE put in wrappers to make chkconfig and insserv commands do the systemd equivalent, because it is going to take a while to break those old habits.. -- Allen Beddingfield Systems Engineer The University of Alabama ________________________________________ From: ale-bounces at ale.org [ale-bounces at ale.org] on behalf of Solomon Peachy [pizza at shaftnet.org] Sent: Friday, September 05, 2014 8:41 AM To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [ale] systemd or not chkconfig only tells you if something is enabled; not if it's actually running. It doesn't handle dependencies and doesn't make sure if things are in a sane state. And it certianly doesn't make sure the application scripts do the right things, track errors and otherwise ensure your dependencies are actually running (or shutting down) properly. As I've said, systemd isn't perfect. But it's considerably less awful than what it's replacing. - Solomon -- Solomon Peachy pizza at shaftnet dot org Delray Beach, FL ^^ (email/xmpp) ^^ Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 155 bytes Desc: not available URL: _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo From james.sumners at gmail.com Fri Sep 5 10:46:50 2014 From: james.sumners at gmail.com (James Sumners) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 10:46:50 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EABB52@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> References: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EABA19@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> <20140905131949.GA18484@shaftnet.org> <20140905134117.GA17519@shaftnet.org> <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EABB52@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> Message-ID: Indeed. But I don't have to deal with it in RHEL for a while, anyway. The USG's ITS won't get off their ass and even give me a timeline of when they will even think about supporting (I've had a ticket in for 2 months and they have yet to acknowledge it). So I'm still using RHEL5 on most systems. On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 9:49 AM, Lightner, Jeff wrote: > I was listing RHEL7 as ANOTHER distro that is now using it. I was not > suggesting people should use systemd because of RHEL7 but rather suggesting > that multiple distros have moved that way in later versions including > RHEL7 so it appears people will have to learn to use it. > > > > > Athena(r), Created for the Cause(tm) > Making a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Cancer > > __________________________________________________________ > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged > > or confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended > > recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, > > copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information > > is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic > > transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that > > you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- James Sumners http://james.roomfullofmirrors.com/ "All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted." Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto) CH:D 59 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mhw at WittsEnd.com Fri Sep 5 10:46:33 2014 From: mhw at WittsEnd.com (Michael H. Warfield) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 10:46:33 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1409928393.5611.247.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> On Fri, 2014-09-05 at 09:50 -0400, Michael Trausch wrote: > Will explain later---but you WANT systemd. Really. It's much, MUCH > more efficient. And allows you to have a 4 package system, > essentially. And makes a lot of sense to work with once you get to > know it well. Really. Look at the dependencies in systemd. Especially this one: [mhw at canyon ~]$ rpm -qlR systemd | grep qr libqrencode.so.3()(64bit) [mhw at canyon ~]$ Explain to me why in all of hades an init system needs QR codes? I discovered this in the process of working on trim downs in NST (Network Security Toolkit) and found that a considerable amount of the bloated fat getting in my way of shoehorning that back onto bootable CD's was things like that. Joking with Serge Hallyn of the LXC project (which sadly considers me the systemd expert) we were both wondering when Systemd would add a "Minesweeper" component and make it mandatory. Regards, Mike > Sent from my iPad > > > On Sep 5, 2014, at 8:30 AM, James Sumners wrote: > > > > I stopped using Arch Linux because they forced systemd on us (me). I'm > > thoroughly disappointed that the next release of Debian is also forcing a > > move to it. But, really, they don't have an option: > > > > "In November 2012, the GNOME Project concluded that basic GNOME > > functionality should not rely on systemd.[16] > > However, in > > contradiction of this statement, GNOME 3.8 introduced a *de facto* dependency > > on systemd by introducing session management behaviors which depend on how > > systemd operates. While the developers of Gentoo Linux > > attempted to adapt these changes > > in OpenRC , the implementation > > contained too many bugs, causing the distribution to mark systemd as a > > dependency of GNOME." -- > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd#GNOME_integration > > > > So, a distribution either _doesn't_ include GNOME (no loss in my opinion, > > but people do like it), or it includes GNOME at the cost of also having to > > include systemd. > > > > What it comes down to is the developers of systemd. This package is brought > > to you by the same person who gave us the wonderfully useless and awful > > Pulse Audio system. And his cohorts routinely draw the ire of others: > > > > https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/4/2/420 > > https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=76935 (whole thing is worth > > reading for much enlightenment) > > > > So, we have a project run by people who like to force their software onto > > others by getting it included as a non-optional dependency who then go on > > to not give a damn about what their bugs break or whom they affect. Now, > > they want to take over the whole damn system -- > > http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html > > > > I agree with the "systemd is a trojan" statement. I very much agree with it. > > > > > >> On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 7:55 AM, Boris Borisov wrote: > >> > >> http://www.technewsworld.com/story/80980.html > >> -------------- next part -------------- > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >> URL: < > >> http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140905/1d544ab0/attachment.html > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Ale mailing list > >> Ale at ale.org > >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > > > > > -- > > James Sumners > > http://james.roomfullofmirrors.com/ > > > > "All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological > > personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the > > corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a > > condition to which they are quickly addicted." > > > > Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto) > > CH:D 59 > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -- Michael H. Warfield (AI4NB) | (770) 978-7061 | mhw at WittsEnd.com /\/\|=mhw=|\/\/ | (678) 463-0932 | http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/ NIC whois: MHW9 | An optimist believes we live in the best of all PGP Key: 0x674627FF | possible worlds. A pessimist is sure of it! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 465 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From james.sumners at gmail.com Fri Sep 5 10:48:48 2014 From: james.sumners at gmail.com (James Sumners) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 10:48:48 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 9:50 AM, Michael Trausch wrote: > Will explain later---but you WANT systemd. Really. It's much, MUCH more > efficient. And allows you to have a 4 package system, essentially. And > makes a lot of sense to work with once you get to know it well. > No, I don't. Writing a sysvinit script is easy and it stays out of the way. -- James Sumners http://james.roomfullofmirrors.com/ "All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted." Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto) CH:D 59 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Fri Sep 5 10:50:12 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 10:50:12 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Every time "things change" in a major way, there's much wailing and gnashing of teeth. Some people still use systems that have no package manager. Some are still using kernel 2.1.x series. Linux users are lucky in that they do have choices. Why are all of the major distros jumping on systemd? Because it solves a host of issues with all the prior ways. Unlike the techweek grumbler, there is no binary database of proprietary configurations parameters, i.e. a Windows-style registry. There are the usual text files, linked in an initially confusing manner but is actually self-sufficiently logical once studied objectively. I am by no means proficient at it but I use it daily. Some new commands are needed, chiefly systemctl, but it makes things better. Much better. I had an issue with NFS on a CentOS7 server. Thanks to systemctl status I was able to see quickly that the port 2049 it needed to attach to for NFSv4 was already in use (from a prior run that broke due to fat fingering). Just having the last several lines of the log show up on a status run is fantastic. +1 for systemd. On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 9:50 AM, Michael Trausch wrote: > Will explain later---but you WANT systemd. Really. It's much, MUCH more > efficient. And allows you to have a 4 package system, essentially. And > makes a lot of sense to work with once you get to know it well. > > Sent from my iPad > > > On Sep 5, 2014, at 8:30 AM, James Sumners > wrote: > > > > I stopped using Arch Linux because they forced systemd on us (me). I'm > > thoroughly disappointed that the next release of Debian is also forcing a > > move to it. But, really, they don't have an option: > > > > "In November 2012, the GNOME Project concluded that basic GNOME > > functionality should not rely on systemd.[16] > > However, in > > contradiction of this statement, GNOME 3.8 introduced a *de facto* > dependency > > on systemd by introducing session management behaviors which depend on > how > > systemd operates. While the developers of Gentoo Linux > > attempted to adapt these > changes > > in OpenRC , the implementation > > contained too many bugs, causing the distribution to mark systemd as a > > dependency of GNOME." -- > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd#GNOME_integration > > > > So, a distribution either _doesn't_ include GNOME (no loss in my opinion, > > but people do like it), or it includes GNOME at the cost of also having > to > > include systemd. > > > > What it comes down to is the developers of systemd. This package is > brought > > to you by the same person who gave us the wonderfully useless and awful > > Pulse Audio system. And his cohorts routinely draw the ire of others: > > > > https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/4/2/420 > > https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=76935 (whole thing is worth > > reading for much enlightenment) > > > > So, we have a project run by people who like to force their software onto > > others by getting it included as a non-optional dependency who then go on > > to not give a damn about what their bugs break or whom they affect. Now, > > they want to take over the whole damn system -- > > > http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html > > > > I agree with the "systemd is a trojan" statement. I very much agree with > it. > > > > > >> On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 7:55 AM, Boris Borisov > wrote: > >> > >> http://www.technewsworld.com/story/80980.html > >> -------------- next part -------------- > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >> URL: < > >> > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140905/1d544ab0/attachment.html > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Ale mailing list > >> Ale at ale.org > >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > > > > > -- > > James Sumners > > http://james.roomfullofmirrors.com/ > > > > "All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological > > personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to > the > > corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a > > condition to which they are quickly addicted." > > > > Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto) > > CH:D 59 > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140905/63cf44e4/attachment.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From leamhall at gmail.com Fri Sep 5 10:53:09 2014 From: leamhall at gmail.com (leam hall) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 10:53:09 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: <1409928393.5611.247.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> References: <1409928393.5611.247.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 10:46 AM, Michael H. Warfield wrote: > Really. Look at the dependencies in systemd. Especially this one: > Explain to me why in all of hades an init system needs QR codes? Same reason the rpm package meeds Lua libraries and PHP needs Perl. RPM Hell... -- Mind on a Mission From jim.kinney at gmail.com Fri Sep 5 10:55:04 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 10:55:04 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: <1409928393.5611.247.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> References: <1409928393.5611.247.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> Message-ID: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2012-October/172163.html So systemctl can provide a qrcode that leads to a microhttpd server that provides more data that is easily displayed on screen. It's fully implemented yet so I'm really unsure if it's worth the effort to have the ability to pop-up a browser with JSON coded log files as part of diagnostics or not. On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 10:46 AM, Michael H. Warfield wrote: > On Fri, 2014-09-05 at 09:50 -0400, Michael Trausch wrote: > > Will explain later---but you WANT systemd. Really. It's much, MUCH > > more efficient. And allows you to have a 4 package system, > > essentially. And makes a lot of sense to work with once you get to > > know it well. > > Really. Look at the dependencies in systemd. Especially this one: > > [mhw at canyon ~]$ rpm -qlR systemd | grep qr > libqrencode.so.3()(64bit) > [mhw at canyon ~]$ > > Explain to me why in all of hades an init system needs QR codes? > > I discovered this in the process of working on trim downs in NST > (Network Security Toolkit) and found that a considerable amount of the > bloated fat getting in my way of shoehorning that back onto bootable > CD's was things like that. > > Joking with Serge Hallyn of the LXC project (which sadly considers me > the systemd expert) we were both wondering when Systemd would add a > "Minesweeper" component and make it mandatory. > > Regards, > Mike > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > On Sep 5, 2014, at 8:30 AM, James Sumners > wrote: > > > > > > I stopped using Arch Linux because they forced systemd on us (me). I'm > > > thoroughly disappointed that the next release of Debian is also > forcing a > > > move to it. But, really, they don't have an option: > > > > > > "In November 2012, the GNOME Project concluded that basic GNOME > > > functionality should not rely on systemd.[16] > > > However, in > > > contradiction of this statement, GNOME 3.8 introduced a *de facto* > dependency > > > on systemd by introducing session management behaviors which depend on > how > > > systemd operates. While the developers of Gentoo Linux > > > attempted to adapt these > changes > > > in OpenRC , the implementation > > > contained too many bugs, causing the distribution to mark systemd as a > > > dependency of GNOME." -- > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd#GNOME_integration > > > > > > So, a distribution either _doesn't_ include GNOME (no loss in my > opinion, > > > but people do like it), or it includes GNOME at the cost of also > having to > > > include systemd. > > > > > > What it comes down to is the developers of systemd. This package is > brought > > > to you by the same person who gave us the wonderfully useless and awful > > > Pulse Audio system. And his cohorts routinely draw the ire of others: > > > > > > https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/4/2/420 > > > https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=76935 (whole thing is > worth > > > reading for much enlightenment) > > > > > > So, we have a project run by people who like to force their software > onto > > > others by getting it included as a non-optional dependency who then go > on > > > to not give a damn about what their bugs break or whom they affect. > Now, > > > they want to take over the whole damn system -- > > > > http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html > > > > > > I agree with the "systemd is a trojan" statement. I very much agree > with it. > > > > > > > > >> On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 7:55 AM, Boris Borisov > wrote: > > >> > > >> http://www.technewsworld.com/story/80980.html > > >> -------------- next part -------------- > > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > >> URL: < > > >> > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140905/1d544ab0/attachment.html > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Ale mailing list > > >> Ale at ale.org > > >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > James Sumners > > > http://james.roomfullofmirrors.com/ > > > > > > "All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts > pathological > > > personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic > to the > > > corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a > > > condition to which they are quickly addicted." > > > > > > Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto) > > > CH:D 59 > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140905/63cf44e4/attachment.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Ale mailing list > > > Ale at ale.org > > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > -- > Michael H. Warfield (AI4NB) | (770) 978-7061 | mhw at WittsEnd.com > /\/\|=mhw=|\/\/ | (678) 463-0932 | > http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/ > NIC whois: MHW9 | An optimist believes we live in the best of > all > PGP Key: 0x674627FF | possible worlds. A pessimist is sure of it! > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: signature.asc > Type: application/pgp-signature > Size: 465 bytes > Desc: This is a digitally signed message part > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140905/a644c2e8/attachment.sig > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Fri Sep 5 11:01:48 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 11:01:48 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: References: <1409928393.5611.247.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> Message-ID: Ah! It's to support Forward Secure Sealing of system logs. The verification code is too much to write down so a QRcode is generated that facilitates saving it to a smart phone. Slick idea. QRCode in a text terminal :-) https://plus.google.com/+LennartPoetteringTheOneAndOnly/posts/g1E6AxVKtyc On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 10:55 AM, Jim Kinney wrote: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2012-October/172163.html > > So systemctl can provide a qrcode that leads to a microhttpd server that > provides more data that is easily displayed on screen. It's fully > implemented yet so I'm really unsure if it's worth the effort to have the > ability to pop-up a browser with JSON coded log files as part of > diagnostics or not. > > > On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 10:46 AM, Michael H. Warfield > wrote: > >> On Fri, 2014-09-05 at 09:50 -0400, Michael Trausch wrote: >> > Will explain later---but you WANT systemd. Really. It's much, MUCH >> > more efficient. And allows you to have a 4 package system, >> > essentially. And makes a lot of sense to work with once you get to >> > know it well. >> >> Really. Look at the dependencies in systemd. Especially this one: >> >> [mhw at canyon ~]$ rpm -qlR systemd | grep qr >> libqrencode.so.3()(64bit) >> [mhw at canyon ~]$ >> >> Explain to me why in all of hades an init system needs QR codes? >> >> I discovered this in the process of working on trim downs in NST >> (Network Security Toolkit) and found that a considerable amount of the >> bloated fat getting in my way of shoehorning that back onto bootable >> CD's was things like that. >> >> Joking with Serge Hallyn of the LXC project (which sadly considers me >> the systemd expert) we were both wondering when Systemd would add a >> "Minesweeper" component and make it mandatory. >> >> Regards, >> Mike >> >> > Sent from my iPad >> > >> > > On Sep 5, 2014, at 8:30 AM, James Sumners >> wrote: >> > > >> > > I stopped using Arch Linux because they forced systemd on us (me). I'm >> > > thoroughly disappointed that the next release of Debian is also >> forcing a >> > > move to it. But, really, they don't have an option: >> > > >> > > "In November 2012, the GNOME Project concluded that basic GNOME >> > > functionality should not rely on systemd.[16] >> > > However, in >> > > contradiction of this statement, GNOME 3.8 introduced a *de facto* >> dependency >> > > on systemd by introducing session management behaviors which depend >> on how >> > > systemd operates. While the developers of Gentoo Linux >> > > attempted to adapt these >> changes >> > > in OpenRC , the implementation >> > > contained too many bugs, causing the distribution to mark systemd as a >> > > dependency of GNOME." -- >> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd#GNOME_integration >> > > >> > > So, a distribution either _doesn't_ include GNOME (no loss in my >> opinion, >> > > but people do like it), or it includes GNOME at the cost of also >> having to >> > > include systemd. >> > > >> > > What it comes down to is the developers of systemd. This package is >> brought >> > > to you by the same person who gave us the wonderfully useless and >> awful >> > > Pulse Audio system. And his cohorts routinely draw the ire of others: >> > > >> > > https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/4/2/420 >> > > https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=76935 (whole thing is >> worth >> > > reading for much enlightenment) >> > > >> > > So, we have a project run by people who like to force their software >> onto >> > > others by getting it included as a non-optional dependency who then >> go on >> > > to not give a damn about what their bugs break or whom they affect. >> Now, >> > > they want to take over the whole damn system -- >> > > >> http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html >> > > >> > > I agree with the "systemd is a trojan" statement. I very much agree >> with it. >> > > >> > > >> > >> On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 7:55 AM, Boris Borisov >> wrote: >> > >> >> > >> http://www.technewsworld.com/story/80980.html >> > >> -------------- next part -------------- >> > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> > >> URL: < >> > >> >> http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140905/1d544ab0/attachment.html >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > >> Ale mailing list >> > >> Ale at ale.org >> > >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> > >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> > >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > James Sumners >> > > http://james.roomfullofmirrors.com/ >> > > >> > > "All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts >> pathological >> > > personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic >> to the >> > > corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, >> a >> > > condition to which they are quickly addicted." >> > > >> > > Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto) >> > > CH:D 59 >> > > -------------- next part -------------- >> > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> > > URL: < >> http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140905/63cf44e4/attachment.html >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Ale mailing list >> > > Ale at ale.org >> > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Ale mailing list >> > Ale at ale.org >> > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> >> -- >> Michael H. Warfield (AI4NB) | (770) 978-7061 | mhw at WittsEnd.com >> /\/\|=mhw=|\/\/ | (678) 463-0932 | >> http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/ >> NIC whois: MHW9 | An optimist believes we live in the best of >> all >> PGP Key: 0x674627FF | possible worlds. A pessimist is sure of it! >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >> Name: signature.asc >> Type: application/pgp-signature >> Size: 465 bytes >> Desc: This is a digitally signed message part >> URL: < >> http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140905/a644c2e8/attachment.sig >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> > > > > -- > -- > James P. Kinney III > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. > It won't fatten the dog. > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > * > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From questy at gmail.com Fri Sep 5 11:34:13 2014 From: questy at gmail.com (Jerald Sheets) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 11:34:13 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: <1409928393.5611.247.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> References: <1409928393.5611.247.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> Message-ID: <3C70031A-EE5B-4B55-92DB-24EEB36F058B@gmail.com> On Sep 5, 2014, at 10:46 AM, Michael H. Warfield wrote: > > Really. Look at the dependencies in systemd. Especially this one: > > [mhw at canyon ~]$ rpm -qlR systemd | grep qr > libqrencode.so.3()(64bit) > [mhw at canyon ~]$ > > Explain to me why in all of hades an init system needs QR codes? >From Lennart on the DEV team answering that very question: > Am I the only one who raised his eyebrow when today's systemd update to > systemd-194-1.fc18 pulled in libmicrohttpd and qrencode-libs? The live-syncing logging logic that is available in 184 as a preview is based on JSON and HTTP (in order to build as much on existing standards as possible, and get best integration with other systems). In order to keep the footprint low we decided to use an existing embeddable minimal HTTP engine for that, rather than writing our own. Correspondingly the microhttpd library is only pulled in by the journal gateway daemon, which is responsible for the HTTP iface to the journal. We thought about splitting this off into an individual package (and it would be really easy to still do that), but as the code of libmicrohttpd is minimal, and it doesn't pull in any deps beyond what is already in the minimal installation set we didn't bother so far. Note that the code is not enabled unless people do "systemctl enable systemd-journal-gatewayd.service". The QR code stuff is for showing a scannable QR code for the FSS sealing key. It's a gimmick. In order to minimize footprint we actually made sure that the qrencode pacakge got split up in order not to pull in any additional packages into the basic set. It too is a really minimal dep, pulling nothing else in that wasn't in the minimal installation set already. Here too, was the option to implement our own thing, our own QR encoding code or just use the existing solution whose code is quite OK, whose deps are minimal, and which is quite well tested already. With the qrencode package split-up we were quite happy with having a dep on it. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 496 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: From questy at gmail.com Fri Sep 5 11:36:07 2014 From: questy at gmail.com (Jerald Sheets) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 11:36:07 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: References: <1409928393.5611.247.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> Message-ID: <7DCA9B47-18B9-4685-B1F1-0AAC9652935C@gmail.com> It would appear that Jim beat me to it? LOL On Sep 5, 2014, at 11:01 AM, Jim Kinney wrote: > Ah! It's to support Forward Secure Sealing of system logs. The verification > code is too much to write down so a QRcode is generated that facilitates > saving it to a smart phone. Slick idea. QRCode in a text terminal :-) > > https://plus.google.com/+LennartPoetteringTheOneAndOnly/posts/g1E6AxVKtyc > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 496 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Fri Sep 5 11:41:38 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 11:41:38 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: <7DCA9B47-18B9-4685-B1F1-0AAC9652935C@gmail.com> References: <1409928393.5611.247.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> <7DCA9B47-18B9-4685-B1F1-0AAC9652935C@gmail.com> Message-ID: Woo!! first post (on the tail of 16 others :-) On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 11:36 AM, Jerald Sheets wrote: > It would appear that Jim beat me to it? LOL > > > On Sep 5, 2014, at 11:01 AM, Jim Kinney wrote: > > > Ah! It's to support Forward Secure Sealing of system logs. The > verification > > code is too much to write down so a QRcode is generated that facilitates > > saving it to a smart phone. Slick idea. QRCode in a text terminal :-) > > > > > https://plus.google.com/+LennartPoetteringTheOneAndOnly/posts/g1E6AxVKtyc > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: signature.asc > Type: application/pgp-signature > Size: 496 bytes > Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140905/bc39016d/attachment.sig > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david at systemoverlord.com Fri Sep 5 12:23:50 2014 From: david at systemoverlord.com (David Tomaschik) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 09:23:50 -0700 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Is there anywhere that actually provides a coherent technical argument for why systemd is bad? So far the complaints I've found online are "I'll need to learn something new", "it's bloated" (ok, true, but so is so much of our software these days), and "don't fix what isn't broken." (Except, to some people, the status quo is broken.) On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 4:55 AM, Boris Borisov wrote: > http://www.technewsworld.com/story/80980.html > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140905/1d544ab0/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- David Tomaschik OpenPGP: 0x5DEA789B http://systemoverlord.com david at systemoverlord.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From leamhall at gmail.com Fri Sep 5 14:03:09 2014 From: leamhall at gmail.com (leam hall) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 14:03:09 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 12:23 PM, David Tomaschik wrote: > Is there anywhere that actually provides a coherent technical argument for > why systemd is bad? So far the complaints I've found online are "I'll need > to learn something new", "it's bloated" (ok, true, but so is so much of our > software these days), and "don't fix what isn't broken." (Except, to some > people, the status quo is broken.) David, how many important discussions are purely technical? It's not that the idea of a better application stack init system is wrong. The issue is that working system admins have a lot on their plates and little time to learn new toys that only work on a portion of their machines. That, and having "pulse audio" on a resume does not inspire me to one's technical skills. Leam -- Mind on a Mission From david at systemoverlord.com Fri Sep 5 15:57:51 2014 From: david at systemoverlord.com (David Tomaschik) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 12:57:51 -0700 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 11:03 AM, leam hall wrote: > On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 12:23 PM, David Tomaschik > wrote: > > Is there anywhere that actually provides a coherent technical argument > for > > why systemd is bad? So far the complaints I've found online are "I'll > need > > to learn something new", "it's bloated" (ok, true, but so is so much of > our > > software these days), and "don't fix what isn't broken." (Except, to > some > > people, the status quo is broken.) > > David, how many important discussions are purely technical? It's not > that the idea of a better application stack init system is wrong. The > issue is that working system admins have a lot on their plates and > little time to learn new toys that only work on a portion of their > machines. > That's an argument for standardization of your fleet of machines, not an argument against new technologies. I'm not arguing for systemd, I just can't seem to find a decent *technical* comparison of them. > > That, and having "pulse audio" on a resume does not inspire me to > one's technical skills. > > Leam > -- > Mind on a Mission > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- David Tomaschik OpenPGP: 0x5DEA789B http://systemoverlord.com david at systemoverlord.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Fri Sep 5 16:11:33 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 16:11:33 -0400 Subject: [ale] gui design is crap Message-ID: I'm setting up Ovirt, the VMWare killer from RedHat, and they have done what many other places have done, designed a UI where the difference between active tab and others is so damn subtle as to be nearly invisible. The difference is the text changes from black to a dark blue-gray and a shadow disappears. A common thing that does work is the make the active tab font BOLD but I gus that didn't make the cut. This ranks up there with making CD/DVD eject button the same black color as the rest of the faceplate. Yes. Some 14 year old kid can see it but in 30 years those eyes will be fading as well. -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evan at banyash.com Fri Sep 5 16:18:53 2014 From: evan at banyash.com (Evan Banyash) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 16:18:53 -0400 Subject: [ale] gui design is crap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Is it a QT or GTK frontend? If so, it could just be your theme. There are high contrast accessibility themes if that's what you need. On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 4:11 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > I'm setting up Ovirt, the VMWare killer from RedHat, and they have done > what many other places have done, designed a UI where the difference > between active tab and others is so damn subtle as to be nearly invisible. > The difference is the text changes from black to a dark blue-gray and a > shadow disappears. A common thing that does work is the make the active tab > font BOLD but I gus that didn't make the cut. > > This ranks up there with making CD/DVD eject button the same black color as > the rest of the faceplate. > > Yes. Some 14 year old kid can see it but in 30 years those eyes will be > fading as well. > > > > -- > -- > James P. Kinney III > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. > It won't fatten the dog. > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > * > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140905/02bf3693/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Fri Sep 5 16:52:32 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 16:52:32 -0400 Subject: [ale] gui design is crap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It's web. Beats the VMWare gui (runs only on winders) but is too subtle for my tastes. On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 4:18 PM, Evan Banyash wrote: > Is it a QT or GTK frontend? If so, it could just be your theme. There are > high contrast accessibility themes if that's what you need. > > > On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 4:11 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > > > I'm setting up Ovirt, the VMWare killer from RedHat, and they have done > > what many other places have done, designed a UI where the difference > > between active tab and others is so damn subtle as to be nearly > invisible. > > The difference is the text changes from black to a dark blue-gray and a > > shadow disappears. A common thing that does work is the make the active > tab > > font BOLD but I gus that didn't make the cut. > > > > This ranks up there with making CD/DVD eject button the same black color > as > > the rest of the faceplate. > > > > Yes. Some 14 year old kid can see it but in 30 years those eyes will be > > fading as well. > > > > > > > > -- > > -- > > James P. Kinney III > > > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you > gain > > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own > tail. > > It won't fatten the dog. > > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > > > > *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > > * > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > > > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140905/02bf3693/attachment.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140905/80ec4f9c/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From allen at ua.edu Fri Sep 5 16:55:02 2014 From: allen at ua.edu (Beddingfield, Allen) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 20:55:02 +0000 Subject: [ale] gui design is crap In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: The VMware gui is web now, too. Post 5.5.x, the Windows-only gui only works if at hardware level 8 or below for your VM. I imagine that all support for it will be gone in the next release. -- Allen Beddingfield Systems Engineer The University of Alabama ________________________________________ From: ale-bounces at ale.org [ale-bounces at ale.org] on behalf of Jim Kinney [jim.kinney at gmail.com] Sent: Friday, September 05, 2014 3:52 PM To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [ale] gui design is crap It's web. Beats the VMWare gui (runs only on winders) but is too subtle for my tastes. On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 4:18 PM, Evan Banyash wrote: > Is it a QT or GTK frontend? If so, it could just be your theme. There are > high contrast accessibility themes if that's what you need. > > > On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 4:11 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > > > I'm setting up Ovirt, the VMWare killer from RedHat, and they have done > > what many other places have done, designed a UI where the difference > > between active tab and others is so damn subtle as to be nearly > invisible. > > The difference is the text changes from black to a dark blue-gray and a > > shadow disappears. A common thing that does work is the make the active > tab > > font BOLD but I gus that didn't make the cut. > > > > This ranks up there with making CD/DVD eject button the same black color > as > > the rest of the faceplate. > > > > Yes. Some 14 year old kid can see it but in 30 years those eyes will be > > fading as well. > > > > > > > > -- > > -- > > James P. Kinney III > > > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you > gain > > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own > tail. > > It won't fatten the dog. > > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > > > > *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > > * > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > > > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140905/02bf3693/attachment.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140905/80ec4f9c/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo From evan at banyash.com Fri Sep 5 16:55:08 2014 From: evan at banyash.com (Evan Banyash) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 16:55:08 -0400 Subject: [ale] gui design is crap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I dunno, make yourself a userscript to change the font-weight of whatever css class it gives the active tab then! On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 4:52 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > It's web. Beats the VMWare gui (runs only on winders) but is too subtle for > my tastes. > > > On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 4:18 PM, Evan Banyash wrote: > > > Is it a QT or GTK frontend? If so, it could just be your theme. There are > > high contrast accessibility themes if that's what you need. > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 4:11 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > > > > > I'm setting up Ovirt, the VMWare killer from RedHat, and they have done > > > what many other places have done, designed a UI where the difference > > > between active tab and others is so damn subtle as to be nearly > > invisible. > > > The difference is the text changes from black to a dark blue-gray and a > > > shadow disappears. A common thing that does work is the make the active > > tab > > > font BOLD but I gus that didn't make the cut. > > > > > > This ranks up there with making CD/DVD eject button the same black > color > > as > > > the rest of the faceplate. > > > > > > Yes. Some 14 year old kid can see it but in 30 years those eyes will be > > > fading as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > -- > > > James P. Kinney III > > > > > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you > > gain > > > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own > > tail. > > > It won't fatten the dog. > > > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > > > > > > > *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > > > * > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > URL: < > > > > > > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140905/02bf3693/attachment.html > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Ale mailing list > > > Ale at ale.org > > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > > > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140905/80ec4f9c/attachment.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > > > -- > -- > James P. Kinney III > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. > It won't fatten the dog. > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > * > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140905/30f15826/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tfreeman at intel.digichem.net Fri Sep 5 17:19:15 2014 From: tfreeman at intel.digichem.net (Tom Freeman) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 17:19:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [ale] Open Source Test Bank Oriented Test/Exam Generator Message-ID: I've been futzing around for the past two weeks or so looking for something that can maintain a test bank data base, generate and format at least semiprofessionally random tests and quizzes, figure point values with minimal hints, that an adjunct can afford to use and take to the next school (I know adjuncts working 4 different schools at the same time - lets not get close to licensing issues!) By vast desire, fully open source even if they expect a minimal support fee. I've somewhat looked at "Respondus" (sp?), which appears to do everything needed. And lisenced up the wazoo best I can figure (I can cheat on one school I'm associated with but...) For the equivelent of 6 contact hours of pay, there is a private lisence under Windows <> Lets not talk about vendor supplied test generators or their free to use while you use our book test bank. The test questions (at least for chemistry) suck at near black hole intensities. There are nice things to say about multiple guess - but I don't believe in lying to say them. In fact, I hate them. (IF you wonder about US education, take a look at how dependent the schools are on the textbook vendors for a possible large negative influence. IMHO of course, and IANAL etc etc. But I'd love to see a physicist/chemist/biologist apply the standards of their fields to investigating the publishers.) Is there such a beast available (Exam generator, open source, good formating at least - I can contribute test questions)? I'm suspecting not, so do any of the list members associated with academia know of a resource who might fall in love with creating such a thing? Windows is probably a needed platform, but if it ain't Linux I for one will try to look further. I've had two supervisors tell me I'm writing pretty decent tests, but they take too long to write in batches of 3-4 (one per section, one for outside testing, and a space just in case). I need a better way, and I don't think I'm alone in this. Thanks as always for a stimulating list, and the use of your bandwidth. From jim.kinney at gmail.com Fri Sep 5 17:37:22 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 17:37:22 -0400 Subject: [ale] Open Source Test Bank Oriented Test/Exam Generator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I've been (very slowly) working on such a thing off and on for a while. It's nowhere ready for anything but a heavy coding session. I've looked at pdfexam (rather nice but relies on php which I don't like) and really not seen anything that's usable and open. I lost the link that has the common core grade/subject breakdown by code. I was planning to use that as a way to categorize the test questions (Teacher Sue wants 3rd grade earth science question set while teacher Joe wants 9th grade literature, etc). So far I have a raw schema for a few topics and even that's not usable yet. I _really_ want to displace that reader tool the schools all got suckered into - it only uses the books they sell, the questions are crap and schools can't add their own questions. a giant, 'no possible way any student can memorize all the questions and answers' test bank that's readily available for all teachers is needed. So many ideas and so little time On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 5:19 PM, Tom Freeman wrote: > > I've been futzing around for the past two weeks or so looking for > something that can maintain a test bank data base, generate and format at > least semiprofessionally random tests and quizzes, figure point values with > minimal hints, that an adjunct can afford to use and take to the next > school (I know adjuncts working 4 different schools at the same time - lets > not get close to licensing issues!) By vast desire, fully open source even > if they expect a minimal support fee. > > I've somewhat looked at "Respondus" (sp?), which appears to do everything > needed. And lisenced up the wazoo best I can figure (I can cheat on one > school I'm associated with but...) For the equivelent of 6 contact hours of > pay, there is a private lisence under Windows <> > > Lets not talk about vendor supplied test generators or their free to use > while you use our book test bank. The test questions (at least for > chemistry) suck at near black hole intensities. There are nice things to > say about multiple guess - but I don't believe in lying to say them. In > fact, I hate them. > > (IF you wonder about US education, take a look at how dependent the > schools are on the textbook vendors for a possible large negative > influence. IMHO of course, and IANAL etc etc. But I'd love to see a > physicist/chemist/biologist apply the standards of their fields to > investigating the publishers.) > > Is there such a beast available (Exam generator, open source, good > formating at least - I can contribute test questions)? I'm suspecting not, > so do any of the list members associated with academia know of a resource > who might fall in love with creating such a thing? Windows is probably a > needed platform, but if it ain't Linux I for one will try to look further. > > I've had two supervisors tell me I'm writing pretty decent tests, but they > take too long to write in batches of 3-4 (one per section, one for outside > testing, and a space just in case). I need a better way, and I don't think > I'm alone in this. > > Thanks as always for a stimulating list, and the use of your bandwidth. > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdp at algoloma.com Fri Sep 5 17:40:35 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 17:40:35 -0400 Subject: [ale] gui design is crap In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <540A2DD3.8010309@algoloma.com> Look for a template or CSS to correct the issue and provide the project with a patch - "old guy" patch. On 09/05/2014 04:52 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > It's web. Beats the VMWare gui (runs only on winders) but is too subtle for > my tastes. > > > On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 4:18 PM, Evan Banyash wrote: > >> Is it a QT or GTK frontend? If so, it could just be your theme. There are >> high contrast accessibility themes if that's what you need. >> >> >> On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 4:11 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: >> >>> I'm setting up Ovirt, the VMWare killer from RedHat, and they have done >>> what many other places have done, designed a UI where the difference >>> between active tab and others is so damn subtle as to be nearly >> invisible. >>> The difference is the text changes from black to a dark blue-gray and a >>> shadow disappears. A common thing that does work is the make the active >> tab >>> font BOLD but I gus that didn't make the cut. >>> >>> This ranks up there with making CD/DVD eject button the same black color >> as >>> the rest of the faceplate. >>> >>> Yes. Some 14 year old kid can see it but in 30 years those eyes will be >>> fading as well. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> -- >>> James P. Kinney III >>> >>> Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you >> gain >>> at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own >> tail. >>> It won't fatten the dog. >>> - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain >>> >>> >>> *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ >>> * >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: < >>> >> http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140905/02bf3693/attachment.html >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ From jim.kinney at gmail.com Fri Sep 5 17:45:21 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 17:45:21 -0400 Subject: [ale] gui design is crap In-Reply-To: <540A2DD3.8010309@algoloma.com> References: <540A2DD3.8010309@algoloma.com> Message-ID: yep! That's on my list. As soon as I get the system up and 3 VMs loaded and running. Need to bang some issues with freeIPA and CentOS 6 vs CentOS 7 (FreeIPA 3.3 is not getting back-ported to CentOS 6.5 - yet ) On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 5:40 PM, JD wrote: > Look for a template or CSS to correct the issue and provide the project > with a > patch - "old guy" patch. > > On 09/05/2014 04:52 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > > It's web. Beats the VMWare gui (runs only on winders) but is too subtle > for > > my tastes. > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 4:18 PM, Evan Banyash wrote: > > > >> Is it a QT or GTK frontend? If so, it could just be your theme. There > are > >> high contrast accessibility themes if that's what you need. > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 4:11 PM, Jim Kinney > wrote: > >> > >>> I'm setting up Ovirt, the VMWare killer from RedHat, and they have done > >>> what many other places have done, designed a UI where the difference > >>> between active tab and others is so damn subtle as to be nearly > >> invisible. > >>> The difference is the text changes from black to a dark blue-gray and a > >>> shadow disappears. A common thing that does work is the make the active > >> tab > >>> font BOLD but I gus that didn't make the cut. > >>> > >>> This ranks up there with making CD/DVD eject button the same black > color > >> as > >>> the rest of the faceplate. > >>> > >>> Yes. Some 14 year old kid can see it but in 30 years those eyes will be > >>> fading as well. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> -- > >>> James P. Kinney III > >>> > >>> Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you > >> gain > >>> at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own > >> tail. > >>> It won't fatten the dog. > >>> - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > >>> > >>> > >>> *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > >>> * > >>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>> URL: < > >>> > >> > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140905/02bf3693/attachment.html > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From feenix3k at aim.com Fri Sep 5 18:46:32 2014 From: feenix3k at aim.com (James Earl Smith) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 18:46:32 -0400 Subject: [ale] What happen when... Message-ID: <540A3D48.2080008@aim.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I was just wondering what happens to a valid signature on a gpg key when the key is revoked or goes out of date ? I have two keys that are a few years old. I looked over the signatures of the keys that signed mine , several have been revoked. So, does this lessen the strength of my key, are the signatures are still valid? James Earl Smith -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (MingW32) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJUCj1IAAoJELqFD0xQwpm0Os8IANbvDcWgy9bEz0aUxJ76jjL/ ZbpAIzFqszSPNuuVT7obrOLFD1hxc9qrZaD+2J/BVjHwy9u2DWQVz9eDXDxywUoh OxCMyicSNpg1k2vQCmbIivfTlyk3E8dj3hyCvTVtJZy22N1j2/0YNsnLWnWomBDo 13h2PWZwveTkqchFiOcKnYzdO97Y/yAGpjIndrECs1DZ2A1lV2iVXUEn2Gwq9GH3 0oU70Gc0HajRUC+6AOz/aqt6JjG42/Pgm735bBOhG6m0ovtFvj+Oi7vw6b3ZOgBo YHHMsq+4CYIyDwkVpIy0oCJxmf/F21ZEX1BSuiSHSazi/W87PiVIrKAxT5ielIw= =NCPi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From brian.mathis+ale at betteradmin.com Fri Sep 5 19:20:36 2014 From: brian.mathis+ale at betteradmin.com (Brian Mathis) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 19:20:36 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT: VT technology in modern OS ? In-Reply-To: <767f66ee-2d66-4a6c-bef4-b981081712e3@email.android.com> References: <767f66ee-2d66-4a6c-bef4-b981081712e3@email.android.com> Message-ID: Which is why VT is typically disabled in the BIOS by default. If you know enough to need it, you know enough to be able to enable it. ? Brian Mathis @orev On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 6:45 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA512 > > I think it's easier to leave it in that have multiple dies. > It can be a security problem if black hat hacker installs code that puts > running os into a VM next boot. Now all keystrokes can be logged with no os > trace. > > On September 3, 2014 4:59:18 PM EDT, Boris Borisov > wrote: > >I just read the post for the Chromebook. In same time I have purchased > >Win > >8 cheap laptop for my wife ( all because skype ). Just thinking. I can > >understand dualcore CPU that modern OS use but why is there VT present. > >Do > >modern OS's take advantage of VT technology to sandbox applications or > >is > >just unnecessary feature of the CPU ? > >-------------- next part -------------- > >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >URL: > >< > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140903/0827fdea/attachment.html > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Ale mailing list > >Ale at ale.org > >http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > >See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > >http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > - -- > Jim Kinney > Linux Systems Analyst > Physicist/Brewer > http://jimkinney.us > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: APG v1.1.1 > > iQJwBAEBCgBaBQJUB5oWUxxKaW0gS2lubmV5IChCcmV3ZXIsIFBoeXNpY2lzdCwg > Q2F0IEhlcmRlciwgU3lzdGVtcyBBbmFseXN0KSA8amtpbm5leUBqaW1raW5uZXku > dXM+AAoJEIm+DWlR6PEqKjoQAIz5v0yMfE791U+ad0oGrxeUn+OiPHmXMmf7LzuD > 0smrrq2bwfgI0FX72W62vG0rGHerGxuB8KJDF3Zmx0rhHfpD2H2OVs1K6HP04uke > tjX4K09cBd5H6etFm+GcL9xB9cXu90vYxZGhI5l0CixefYzVqBwkgSmRcliDdjpJ > 0DATds//Ei3dSBRtnguGp0aAA/q3nHPinF+8QGILAI0nf7E9NwRH4eUlUGUa1miR > SH/rp7GrUBDdi1AN9XKSVPmEBw1l730SsQhnXtlC+jAZw9MBnSgl5wS8oMqhmP38 > bDleX759v0wTvzSGzB1wnNJs8aLpFl7eK3CxYdwgbmJmMTsvCGjGfWzxpQGMmHbz > lAe5OcOf2QJMrqd2easlLQAmV2VOc6Vnt5auSeRzrgplC17PxedtMtVZNcAd55Y6 > w3x+1KY7quMi0+YBktaq05+N7hVzfROJEH7pvQPULXo5OSgrlM3I/wfmGKNg1lpi > YDp8k7lcHX9OGxmLJViu8JHBZeK2B1A6S/3Loh/XnXl2hOCLo8bThfTq/lmL491s > sQh3ZEh0DYWSa+duKAJYN7jYXCY8s22JErhCRyCeHQ3tpY5KmZRLcyKGCX+Xqw02 > t1a3dnwm4DLw7aXCns+Npy+jFJ4InaqevHEg2oPgxPq2WIcdhfEEqFWzBbCRMJi6 > p83H > =c13f > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brian.mathis+ale at betteradmin.com Fri Sep 5 19:28:42 2014 From: brian.mathis+ale at betteradmin.com (Brian Mathis) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 19:28:42 -0400 Subject: [ale] What happen when... In-Reply-To: <540A3D48.2080008@aim.com> References: <540A3D48.2080008@aim.com> Message-ID: There is a good discussion on how to handle signing and encryption keys here: http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/8559/digital-certificate-deployment-using-two-certs-for-each-user/8563#8563 It's mainly about backing up keys, but one point is that one can still verify signatures with expired keys, as long as you still have them. ? Brian Mathis @orev On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 6:46 PM, James Earl Smith wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > I was just wondering what happens to a valid signature on a gpg key > when the key is revoked or goes out of date ? > > I have two keys that are a few years old. I looked over the signatures > of the keys that signed mine , several have been revoked. So, does > this lessen the strength of my key, are the signatures are still valid? > > > James Earl Smith > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (MingW32) > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJUCj1IAAoJELqFD0xQwpm0Os8IANbvDcWgy9bEz0aUxJ76jjL/ > ZbpAIzFqszSPNuuVT7obrOLFD1hxc9qrZaD+2J/BVjHwy9u2DWQVz9eDXDxywUoh > OxCMyicSNpg1k2vQCmbIivfTlyk3E8dj3hyCvTVtJZy22N1j2/0YNsnLWnWomBDo > 13h2PWZwveTkqchFiOcKnYzdO97Y/yAGpjIndrECs1DZ2A1lV2iVXUEn2Gwq9GH3 > 0oU70Gc0HajRUC+6AOz/aqt6JjG42/Pgm735bBOhG6m0ovtFvj+Oi7vw6b3ZOgBo > YHHMsq+4CYIyDwkVpIy0oCJxmf/F21ZEX1BSuiSHSazi/W87PiVIrKAxT5ielIw= > =NCPi > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tfreeman at intel.digichem.net Fri Sep 5 23:44:54 2014 From: tfreeman at intel.digichem.net (Tom Freeman) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 23:44:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [ale] Open Source Test Bank Oriented Test/Exam Generator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: For what its worth - some of those ideas lacking sufficient time sound lovely. Would you be interested in a little financial aid to clone yourself?? On the way home from dropping off the girl friend the blue mush in the skull wondered off by itself. Dangerous that. Cutting to the chase - would it be a big nightmare to put something together for 1 semester courses using perhaps the layout engine of LibreOffice, a modest database engine, and scripting glue. Enter each question with the chapter & section numbers to use for selection at first - and randomly hit appropriate questions until the test is long enough. Randomize the order, add good looking headers and footers, and publish to any of a number of appropriate media/formats. I know I'm missing an entire Omaha Beach landing zone worth of mines here, but is this vaguely feasable? Of course the problem at the moment is finding somebody who _needs_ to scratch this particular itch for those of us who seem to lack the ability (me). On Fri, 5 Sep 2014, Jim Kinney wrote: > I've been (very slowly) working on such a thing off and on for a while. > It's nowhere ready for anything but a heavy coding session. I've looked at > pdfexam (rather nice but relies on php which I don't like) and really not > seen anything that's usable and open. > > I lost the link that has the common core grade/subject breakdown by code. I > was planning to use that as a way to categorize the test questions (Teacher > Sue wants 3rd grade earth science question set while teacher Joe wants 9th > grade literature, etc). So far I have a raw schema for a few topics and > even that's not usable yet. I _really_ want to displace that reader tool > the schools all got suckered into - it only uses the books they sell, the > questions are crap and schools can't add their own questions. > > a giant, 'no possible way any student can memorize all the questions and > answers' test bank that's readily available for all teachers is needed. > > So many ideas and so little time > > > On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 5:19 PM, Tom Freeman > wrote: > >> >> I've been futzing around for the past two weeks or so looking for >> something that can maintain a test bank data base, generate and format at >> least semiprofessionally random tests and quizzes, figure point values with >> minimal hints, that an adjunct can afford to use and take to the next >> school (I know adjuncts working 4 different schools at the same time - lets >> not get close to licensing issues!) By vast desire, fully open source even >> if they expect a minimal support fee. >> >> I've somewhat looked at "Respondus" (sp?), which appears to do everything >> needed. And lisenced up the wazoo best I can figure (I can cheat on one >> school I'm associated with but...) For the equivelent of 6 contact hours of >> pay, there is a private lisence under Windows <> >> >> Lets not talk about vendor supplied test generators or their free to use >> while you use our book test bank. The test questions (at least for >> chemistry) suck at near black hole intensities. There are nice things to >> say about multiple guess - but I don't believe in lying to say them. In >> fact, I hate them. >> >> (IF you wonder about US education, take a look at how dependent the >> schools are on the textbook vendors for a possible large negative >> influence. IMHO of course, and IANAL etc etc. But I'd love to see a >> physicist/chemist/biologist apply the standards of their fields to >> investigating the publishers.) >> >> Is there such a beast available (Exam generator, open source, good >> formating at least - I can contribute test questions)? I'm suspecting not, >> so do any of the list members associated with academia know of a resource >> who might fall in love with creating such a thing? Windows is probably a >> needed platform, but if it ain't Linux I for one will try to look further. >> >> I've had two supervisors tell me I'm writing pretty decent tests, but they >> take too long to write in batches of 3-4 (one per section, one for outside >> testing, and a space just in case). I need a better way, and I don't think >> I'm alone in this. >> >> Thanks as always for a stimulating list, and the use of your bandwidth. >> _______________________________________________ >> Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> > > > > From jim.kinney at gmail.com Sat Sep 6 08:48:39 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2014 08:48:39 -0400 Subject: [ale] Open Source Test Bank Oriented Test/Exam Generator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The two big issues are data entry for populating the database and the formatting of the questions; short answer, multiple choice, etc. For both, it's a UI problem. Solvable but tricky. If I had a clone I would be able to generate new ideas twice as fast! On Sep 5, 2014 11:47 PM, "Tom Freeman" wrote: > > For what its worth - some of those ideas lacking sufficient time sound > lovely. Would you be interested in a little financial aid to clone > yourself?? > > On the way home from dropping off the girl friend the blue mush in the > skull wondered off by itself. Dangerous that. Cutting to the chase - would > it be a big nightmare to put something together for 1 semester courses > using perhaps the layout engine of LibreOffice, a modest database engine, > and scripting glue. Enter each question with the chapter & section numbers > to use for selection at first - and randomly hit appropriate questions > until the test is long enough. Randomize the order, add good looking > headers and footers, and publish to any of a number of appropriate > media/formats. > > I know I'm missing an entire Omaha Beach landing zone worth of mines here, > but is this vaguely feasable? > > Of course the problem at the moment is finding somebody who _needs_ to > scratch this particular itch for those of us who seem to lack the ability > (me). > > On Fri, 5 Sep 2014, Jim Kinney wrote: > > I've been (very slowly) working on such a thing off and on for a while. >> It's nowhere ready for anything but a heavy coding session. I've looked at >> pdfexam (rather nice but relies on php which I don't like) and really not >> seen anything that's usable and open. >> >> I lost the link that has the common core grade/subject breakdown by code. >> I >> was planning to use that as a way to categorize the test questions >> (Teacher >> Sue wants 3rd grade earth science question set while teacher Joe wants 9th >> grade literature, etc). So far I have a raw schema for a few topics and >> even that's not usable yet. I _really_ want to displace that reader tool >> the schools all got suckered into - it only uses the books they sell, the >> questions are crap and schools can't add their own questions. >> >> a giant, 'no possible way any student can memorize all the questions and >> answers' test bank that's readily available for all teachers is needed. >> >> So many ideas and so little time >> >> >> On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 5:19 PM, Tom Freeman >> wrote: >> >> >>> I've been futzing around for the past two weeks or so looking for >>> something that can maintain a test bank data base, generate and format at >>> least semiprofessionally random tests and quizzes, figure point values >>> with >>> minimal hints, that an adjunct can afford to use and take to the next >>> school (I know adjuncts working 4 different schools at the same time - >>> lets >>> not get close to licensing issues!) By vast desire, fully open source >>> even >>> if they expect a minimal support fee. >>> >>> I've somewhat looked at "Respondus" (sp?), which appears to do everything >>> needed. And lisenced up the wazoo best I can figure (I can cheat on one >>> school I'm associated with but...) For the equivelent of 6 contact hours >>> of >>> pay, there is a private lisence under Windows <> >>> >>> Lets not talk about vendor supplied test generators or their free to use >>> while you use our book test bank. The test questions (at least for >>> chemistry) suck at near black hole intensities. There are nice things to >>> say about multiple guess - but I don't believe in lying to say them. In >>> fact, I hate them. >>> >>> (IF you wonder about US education, take a look at how dependent the >>> schools are on the textbook vendors for a possible large negative >>> influence. IMHO of course, and IANAL etc etc. But I'd love to see a >>> physicist/chemist/biologist apply the standards of their fields to >>> investigating the publishers.) >>> >>> Is there such a beast available (Exam generator, open source, good >>> formating at least - I can contribute test questions)? I'm suspecting >>> not, >>> so do any of the list members associated with academia know of a resource >>> who might fall in love with creating such a thing? Windows is probably a >>> needed platform, but if it ain't Linux I for one will try to look >>> further. >>> >>> I've had two supervisors tell me I'm writing pretty decent tests, but >>> they >>> take too long to write in batches of 3-4 (one per section, one for >>> outside >>> testing, and a space just in case). I need a better way, and I don't >>> think >>> I'm alone in this. >>> >>> Thanks as always for a stimulating list, and the use of your bandwidth. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ale mailing list >>> Ale at ale.org >>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >>> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mike at trausch.us Sat Sep 6 14:18:20 2014 From: mike at trausch.us (Michael B. Trausch) Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2014 14:18:20 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: <1409928393.5611.247.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> References: <1409928393.5611.247.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> Message-ID: <540B4FEC.3040601@trausch.us> Before I get into the directed inline reply below, here's my overall position. I don't have as much time as I like to go into it in depth, but I might be able to be convinced to resurrect my blog or put together a talk on it... OH! And PulseAudio was mentioned. PulseAudio SUCKED MAJORLY in the beginning. But today it is superior to anything else I've used. I still can't figure out how to get Microsoft Windows to drive my speakers correctly. Modern PulseAudio (as found in Fedora 20, for example) gets the configuration correct out of the box, every time. It was not always like that, and anyone can easily find many of my rants about PulseAudio problems in the ALE archives and elsewhere on the 'net. But today, I appreciate the fact that I can actually enjoy my music with it, without modifying 10 different config files to get the channels and upscaling correctly mapped persistently across reboots. 1. systemd is specific to the Linux kernel. It will not run on Hurd, FreeBSD, NetBSD, or any other system. It therefore takes full advantage of everything that Linux has to offer. That is to say that Linux is one of systemd's four core dependencies. 1. It uses cgroups, which allow it to ensure that processes never escape their assigned trees. 2. It works to standardize certain aspects of the environment which previously did not need standardization. With the coming obsolescence of X11 (on Linux systems), being replaced by the far more efficient and versatile Wayland, having things like "seat" and "session" management provided by the system is better. 3. It works to standardize individual user sessions, too. No longer do you need things like a profile or xinit script. You can have systemd --user start when you login, and maintain things for you while you're logged in (and it can be configured to do certain things only once, globally, such as start a local daemon, terminating it upon the termination of your last login session if you've multiple). 2. systemd is as lightweight as desired. It depends on Linux, glibc, libcap, and util-linux (satisfiable with busybox). That's it. Pair a current systemd with Linux 3.17 or later and the (optional) D-Bus requirement disappears entirely. 3. systemd makes rapid experimentation easy. 4 dependencies. Use isolinux to boot from a CD, or use User-Mode Linux to perform rapid experimentation in your own userspace. 4. systemd formalizes a lot of configuration that previously was done any one of a million ways by different distributions and subdistributions. And now that (nearly all) distributions use systemd as the system manager, that knowledge is /truly/ portable. No longer are there (mandatory) huge low-level differences between e.g., Debian and RHEL! 5. systemd makes administration very easy. 6. systemd is the first stepping stone to having a, IMHO, truly secure environment to work in. It is aware of capabilities, and integrates with PolicyKit. Add glue to allow SSH to be used as a transport for inter-system management (actually, if I'm not mistaken, systemd already provides that) and you can now do a great deal either quickly or programmatically, without having to move terribly much in the way of resources. 7. It's great for the so-called "DevOps" thing. Since service configuration in /etc is now admin-controlled and not partially controlled by the distribution, rsync deployment becomes possible for far more classes of software than previously possible. The distribution places unit files in /usr/lib/systemd, and the host administrator (or host administration agent software) can override everything, using a similarly built tree in /etc/systemd. There's more to it, and it's versatile as well. The journal mechanism provides functionality that is EXTREMELY useful for both development and production troubleshooting, and is far easier to work with than syslog, whether on just one system or on multiple. Below, my reply wherein I highlight just how lightweight a systemd system can be---like the Linux kernel, which may be very bloated (when you use a distro kernel, it usually is) or lean (as you please), the systemd software can be configured to be very slim indeed. On 09/05/2014 10:46 AM, Michael H. Warfield wrote: > Really. Look at the dependencies in systemd. Especially this one: Systemd itself (from upstream) has the following dependencies: (This is from the systemd README for systemd-216, the very latest release): glibc >= 2.14 libcap libseccomp >= 1.0.0 (optional) libblkid >= 2.20 (from util-linux) (optional) libkmod >= 15 (optional) PAM >= 1.1.2 (optional) libcryptsetup (optional) libaudit (optional) libacl (optional) libselinux (optional) liblzma (optional) liblz4 >= 119 (optional) libgcrypt (optional) libqrencode (optional) libmicrohttpd (optional) libpython (optional) libidn (optional) gobject-introspection > 1.40.0 (optional) elfutils >= 158 (optional) make, gcc, and similar tools During runtime, you need the following additional dependencies: util-linux >= v2.19 (requires fsck -l, agetty -s), v2.21 required for tests in test/ dbus >= 1.4.0 (strictly speaking optional, but recommended) sulogin (from util-linux >= 2.22 or sysvinit-tools, optional but recommended, required for tests in test/) dracut (optional) PolicyKit (optional) Notice how most of those requirements are /optional/. This includes libqrencode. A little while back, when the first major "fuck systemd, it's bloated" holy war happened, the Debian project performed a quite complete analysis of systemd showing that it's quite worthwhile, comparing it with sysvinit and upstart. > Explain to me why in all of hades an init system needs QR codes? Let's find out, shall we? If you run the command for elf in $(rpm -qlR systemd|egrep '^/usr/(s?)bin'); do ldd $elf | grep qrenco; done, you'll find that exactly one instance exists; so let's see what that is: mbt at aloe ~$ for elf in $(rpm -qlR systemd|egrep '^/usr/(s?)bin'); do echo $elf; ldd $elf 2> /dev/null; printf '\n\n' ; done | grep -C7 qrenc /usr/bin/journalctl linux-vdso.so.1 => (0x00007fff8296d000) librt.so.1 => /lib64/librt.so.1 (0x00007fe5bc2b1000) liblzma.so.5 => /lib64/liblzma.so.5 (0x00007fe5bc08c000) libgcrypt.so.11 => /lib64/libgcrypt.so.11 (0x00007fe5bbe0c000) libacl.so.1 => /lib64/libacl.so.1 (0x00007fe5bbc03000) libqrencode.so.3 => /lib64/libqrencode.so.3 (0x00007fe5bb9f6000) libgcc_s.so.1 => /lib64/libgcc_s.so.1 (0x00007fe5bb7df000) libc.so.6 => /lib64/libc.so.6 (0x00007fe5bb421000) /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 (0x0000003752c00000) libpthread.so.0 => /lib64/libpthread.so.0 (0x00007fe5bb204000) libgpg-error.so.0 => /lib64/libgpg-error.so.0 (0x00007fe5baffe000) libdl.so.2 => /lib64/libdl.so.2 (0x00007fe5badfa000) libattr.so.1 => /lib64/libattr.so.1 (0x00007fe5babf5000) It appears that the Journal has the *(_optional_)* linkage against the QRencoder library. Why? Because this is a feature that goes to support *Forward Secure Sealing journal logging*. (I realize that this has already been pointed out.) As can be seen in the systemd README, this is an _optional_ dependency which allows systemd to display the QR code of the verification key when the user runs "journalctl --setup-keys". It displays the QR code right on the terminal . And this works on anything systemd works on---including your little Raspberry Pi units---and comes nearly for free. And did I mention that it is */optional/*? Talk to Fedora or Red Hat if you don't like the way they package it, or build systemd from source yourself and create an RPM that you use. Put the blame where it's due, and not where the very first thing points to. If you want to confirm this, you can build yourself a GCC with --sysroot support and create, from source, a root filesystem that comprises of linux, glibc, libcap, busybox, and systemd. Oh, shit. I was wrong; you can't build a complete systemd system with 4 packages, it's 5 packages. Oops. Systemd is pretty damned nice, if you take the time to get to know it. It /greatly/ simplifies the stack, and has actually improved the robustness of the systems that use it. *Creating a test distribution that is bootable requires the five packages I listed above, plus a boot loader.* It doesn't get easier or simpler than that. Well, yes, it does. Don't use a boot loader and try everything under an "ARCH=um" kernel. --- Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mike at trausch.us Sat Sep 6 14:22:12 2014 From: mike at trausch.us (Michael B. Trausch) Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2014 14:22:12 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> On 09/05/2014 10:48 AM, James Sumners wrote: > On Fri, Sep 5, 2014 at 9:50 AM, Michael Trausch wrote: > >> >Will explain later---but you WANT systemd. Really. It's much, MUCH more >> >efficient. And allows you to have a 4 package system, essentially. And >> >makes a lot of sense to work with once you get to know it well. >> > > No, I don't. Writing a sysvinit script is easy and it stays out of the way. Writing a Service unit file is easier, and controlling processes is simpler. How is systemd "in the way"? For lightdm: [Unit] Description=Light Display Manager Documentation=man:lightdm(1) Conflicts=getty at tty1.service After=systemd-user-sessions.service getty at tty1.service plymouth-quit.service livesys-late.service [Service] ExecStart=/usr/sbin/lightdm Restart=always IgnoreSIGPIPE=no BusName=org.freedesktop.DisplayManager [Install] Alias=display-manager.service To disable it say "systemctl disable display-manager". To enable it again, say "systemctl enable display-manager". Want to change the display manager? Copy to "/etc/systemd/system/display-manager.service", use your own ExecStart= line and you're done. Simple, easy configuration overrides which can be also easily automated and mass-deployed. To any distribution which uses systemd. Without having to worry about system specifics; that's what package managers are for. ? Mike From mike at trausch.us Sat Sep 6 14:26:30 2014 From: mike at trausch.us (Michael B. Trausch) Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2014 14:26:30 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <540B51D6.7070404@trausch.us> On 09/05/2014 12:23 PM, David Tomaschik wrote: > Is there anywhere that actually provides a coherent technical argument for > why systemd is bad? So far the complaints I've found online are "I'll need > to learn something new", "it's bloated" (ok, true, but so is so much of our > software these days), and "don't fix what isn't broken." (Except, to some > people, the status quo is broken.) The best I've seen is Debian's analysis: https://people.debian.org/~stapelberg/docs/systemd-dependencies.html That covers systemd 204; we're up to 216 now, but as the README shows (and as can be confirmed as indicated in my previous post), systemd really only needs 4 dependencies, so a complete, working, barebones Linux command-line system (with just the root user) is possible in 5 packages. Want multiple users? OK, add PAM. Rebuild systemd and busybox. Done. Not bad at all. Want to bootstrap a distribution yourself because you need something TINY? Systemd becomes your best friend. Especially on "semiembeddeds" like the R?. ? Mike From mike at trausch.us Sat Sep 6 14:29:12 2014 From: mike at trausch.us (Michael B. Trausch) Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2014 14:29:12 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: References: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EABA19@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> <20140905131949.GA18484@shaftnet.org> Message-ID: <540B5278.8060507@trausch.us> On 09/05/2014 09:27 AM, leam hall wrote: > The issue is that people who work in enterprises have to support more > than one OS. I just complained about this on a RH list for the same > reason. Solaris SMF is in the same trash pile. > > The chkconfig stuff was great in that it gave you an interface to > standard init scripts. If you have application dependencies they need > to be in the application scripts, not at the OS's level of control. This should be handled by software on the systems themselves being adapted to a single framework, if that type of thing is required. If you're using things like the BSD family in your infrastructure, then you're (obviously) going to be using their init daemons, at least until they all update their Linux emulations and then bring in systemd. :-) (Honestly, they probably won't do that, but I can easily see them creating their own BSD-licensed alternative to systemd, and I think that will spur some fascinating competition and discussions.) ? Mike From james.sumners at gmail.com Sat Sep 6 16:27:53 2014 From: james.sumners at gmail.com (James Sumners) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2014 16:27:53 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> Message-ID: On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 2:22 PM, Michael B. Trausch wrote: > Writing a Service unit file is easier, and controlling processes is > simpler. How is systemd "in the way"? > > For lightdm: > > [Unit] > Description=Light Display Manager > Documentation=man:lightdm(1) > Conflicts=getty at tty1.service > After=systemd-user-sessions.service getty at tty1.service > plymouth-quit.service livesys-late.service > > [Service] > ExecStart=/usr/sbin/lightdm > Restart=always > IgnoreSIGPIPE=no > BusName=org.freedesktop.DisplayManager > > [Install] > Alias=display-manager.service > How is it in the way? For one, I have no clue what any of that even means. Two, when do they start? Under what run levels? I could come up with others, but, whatever. -- James Sumners http://james.roomfullofmirrors.com/ "All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted." Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto) CH:D 59 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.sumners at gmail.com Sat Sep 6 16:30:10 2014 From: james.sumners at gmail.com (James Sumners) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2014 16:30:10 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: <540B4FEC.3040601@trausch.us> References: <1409928393.5611.247.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> <540B4FEC.3040601@trausch.us> Message-ID: Ugh. That's whole LOT of stuff that the supposed "init system" is doing. Why would I want the init system managing the GUI environment (or even window manager)? Why would I want the init system doing syslog and logrotate's jobs? Why would I want the init system managing the configuration for everything else? Answer: I don't. -- James Sumners http://james.roomfullofmirrors.com/ "All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted." Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto) CH:D 59 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mike at trausch.us Sat Sep 6 16:50:44 2014 From: mike at trausch.us (Michael B. Trausch) Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2014 16:50:44 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: References: <1409928393.5611.247.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> <540B4FEC.3040601@trausch.us> Message-ID: <540B73A4.2010803@trausch.us> On 09/06/2014 04:30 PM, James Sumners wrote: > Ugh. That's whole LOT of stuff that the supposed "init system" is doing. > Why would I want the init system managing the GUI environment (or even > window manager)? Why would I want the init system doing syslog and > logrotate's jobs? Why would I want the init system managing the > configuration for everything else? > > Answer: I don't. Answer is: They don't. PID 1 is not involved in that. You're either not reading about what systemd is and how it works, or you don't care. Also note that systemd is *not* an init system. It is a "system manager". And /that/ is what it does well. --- Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mike at trausch.us Sat Sep 6 17:13:49 2014 From: mike at trausch.us (Michael B. Trausch) Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2014 17:13:49 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> Message-ID: <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> On 09/06/2014 04:27 PM, James Sumners wrote: > On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 2:22 PM, Michael B. Trausch wrote: > >> Writing a Service unit file is easier, and controlling processes is >> simpler. How is systemd "in the way"? >> >> For lightdm: >> >> [Unit] >> Description=Light Display Manager >> Documentation=man:lightdm(1) >> Conflicts=getty at tty1.service >> After=systemd-user-sessions.service getty at tty1.service >> plymouth-quit.service livesys-late.service >> >> [Service] >> ExecStart=/usr/sbin/lightdm >> Restart=always >> IgnoreSIGPIPE=no >> BusName=org.freedesktop.DisplayManager >> >> [Install] >> Alias=display-manager.service >> > How is it in the way? For one, I have no clue what any of that even means. If you take a minute and read it line-by-line, it should pretty well make sense if you've managed UNIX systems for more than a little while. Systemd doesn't introduce anything major in terms of fundamental concepts, it just introduces a set of newer, simpler ways to do what we did before so that we can make better use of our time. (That's what technology is supposed to do, isn't it?) The structure requirements to write them can of course be learned by reading the documentation, which is pretty well-written. Often, services are left alone; when they do need to be modified, you can typically do so by copying and modifying the file and the system simply honors it. The Description, Documentation, and After lines should pretty well make sense; the Conflicts line is there because systemd implementations often run the display manager on tty1. The [Service] section tells systemd how to manage or supervise the process. ExecStart gives the command line, Restart tells systemd whether it needs to always restart, restart only if it died with an error, or never restart. IgnoreSIGPIPE should be pretty obvious. The BusName line sets up systemd for *socket activation*, meaning that if the lightdm service is enabled (*systemctl enable lightdm.service*) but not currently running, and a D-Bus connection is made to the *org.freedesktop.DisplayManager* D-Bus endpoint, systemd will notice and spawn the display manager to answer it. Systemd supports services starting normally, as well as socket activation via UNIX socket, TCP socket, or D-Bus socket, or as the result of a hotplug event. > Two, when do they start? Under what run levels? There is no concept of "run level". Again, problem which can be fixed by reading the documentation and learning the system; it's not expected to be the same as an init system because it isn't an init system. It is a system manager, which includes an init system. You have the concept instead of "targets". For example, there is *default.target* and *graphical.target* and *multi-user.target*. These can be loosely said to be like runlevels, but there are an arbitrary number of them. If you want to define a *system-maintenance.target*, you can. If you want to define a *system-thinks-its-compromised.target* which is configured to run programatically by a security system you have, guess what, you can. You /could/ do these things with an init system by modifying all the trees and reading script files, but that's way more difficult. systemd makes it possible to control every aspect of the system's management either at the system itself, or remotely, using any number of management utilities. Among other reasons, because every file format is well-documented and not ad-hoc. There are no shell scripts to manage the system. The system provides a D-Bus interface for managing the services that are running, enabled, or disabled, as well as command-line utilities. Overall, this means that we can now programmatically manage entire fleets of systems without having to put together all of the components that would typically be required to do so. Yes, you still need to configure your service configuration files, things like the database servers and display managers need to read their configuration. But you can manage them in the same way as with "classic" init systems, by modifying files and using command lines, or you can manage them /any way you want/, from anywhere, over a secure SSH link and without a shell. > I could come up with > others, but, whatever. If you come up with any that aren't the result of "I don't like change" or "I don't want to read the documentation" or similar, I'm not interested. However, if you come up with ways that systemd is actually "in the way", I am all ears. For my part, having approached it a skeptic, and seeing first-hand what I can do with it in simply minutes as opposed to hours or days starting from scratch---five packages is the minimum system, no massive configuration required, it just works out of the box---and easy, simple, secure local and remote management? I'm sold. Filesystems get more complex all the time; all modern filesystems resemble databases more than they do filesystems of decades gone by. Filesystems of decades gone by could be interpreted by a human being by reading the raw disk blocks. Now we must use tools to inspect and repair e.g., zfs, btrfs, NTFS, or ReiserFS. People whined at the introduction of filesystems which were opaque to humans. However, the things that these filesystems provide vastly outweigh the Old Dominion of relatively simple and linear filesystems, and that's why they're popular: They themselves are more complex, */but they simplify the system overall/*. And that's worthwhile, no matter whether you're a programmer or an administrator. --- Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hooterpincher at gmail.com Sat Sep 6 17:36:14 2014 From: hooterpincher at gmail.com (Charles Shapiro) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2014 17:36:14 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> Message-ID: Mike, this is real interesting. I started out suspicious and hostile about systemd, and the press didn't help. Your posts are changing my mind. -- CHS On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Michael B. Trausch wrote: > On 09/06/2014 04:27 PM, James Sumners wrote: > >> On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 2:22 PM, Michael B. Trausch >> wrote: >> >> Writing a Service unit file is easier, and controlling processes is >>> simpler. How is systemd "in the way"? >>> >>> For lightdm: >>> >>> [Unit] >>> Description=Light Display Manager >>> Documentation=man:lightdm(1) >>> Conflicts=getty at tty1.service >>> After=systemd-user-sessions.service getty at tty1.service >>> plymouth-quit.service livesys-late.service >>> >>> [Service] >>> ExecStart=/usr/sbin/lightdm >>> Restart=always >>> IgnoreSIGPIPE=no >>> BusName=org.freedesktop.DisplayManager >>> >>> [Install] >>> Alias=display-manager.service >>> >>> How is it in the way? For one, I have no clue what any of that even >> means. >> > > If you take a minute and read it line-by-line, it should pretty well make > sense if you've managed UNIX systems for more than a little while. Systemd > doesn't introduce anything major in terms of fundamental concepts, it just > introduces a set of newer, simpler ways to do what we did before so that we > can make better use of our time. (That's what technology is supposed to > do, isn't it?) > > The structure requirements to write them can of course be learned by > reading the documentation, which is pretty well-written. Often, services > are left alone; when they do need to be modified, you can typically do so > by copying and modifying the file and the system simply honors it. > > The Description, Documentation, and After lines should pretty well make > sense; the Conflicts line is there because systemd implementations often > run the display manager on tty1. > > The [Service] section tells systemd how to manage or supervise the > process. ExecStart gives the command line, Restart tells systemd whether > it needs to always restart, restart only if it died with an error, or never > restart. IgnoreSIGPIPE should be pretty obvious. The BusName line sets up > systemd for *socket activation*, meaning that if the lightdm service is > enabled (*systemctl enable lightdm.service*) but not currently running, and > a D-Bus connection is made to the *org.freedesktop.DisplayManager* D-Bus > endpoint, systemd will notice and spawn the display manager to answer it. > > Systemd supports services starting normally, as well as socket activation > via UNIX socket, TCP socket, or D-Bus socket, or as the result of a hotplug > event. > > Two, when do they start? Under what run levels? >> > > There is no concept of "run level". Again, problem which can be fixed by > reading the documentation and learning the system; it's not expected to be > the same as an init system because it isn't an init system. It is a system > manager, which includes an init system. > > You have the concept instead of "targets". For example, there is > *default.target* and *graphical.target* and *multi-user.target*. These can > be loosely said to be like runlevels, but there are an arbitrary number of > them. If you want to define a *system-maintenance.target*, you can. If > you want to define a *system-thinks-its-compromised.target* which is > configured to run programatically by a security system you have, guess > what, you can. > > You /could/ do these things with an init system by modifying all the trees > and reading script files, but that's way more difficult. > > systemd makes it possible to control every aspect of the system's > management either at the system itself, or remotely, using any number of > management utilities. Among other reasons, because every file format is > well-documented and not ad-hoc. There are no shell scripts to manage the > system. The system provides a D-Bus interface for managing the services > that are running, enabled, or disabled, as well as command-line utilities. > Overall, this means that we can now programmatically manage entire fleets > of systems without having to put together all of the components that would > typically be required to do so. Yes, you still need to configure your > service configuration files, things like the database servers and display > managers need to read their configuration. But you can manage them in the > same way as with "classic" init systems, by modifying files and using > command lines, or you can manage them /any way you want/, from anywhere, > over a secure SSH link and without a shell. > > I could come up with >> others, but, whatever. >> > > If you come up with any that aren't the result of "I don't like change" or > "I don't want to read the documentation" or similar, I'm not interested. > However, if you come up with ways that systemd is actually "in the way", I > am all ears. For my part, having approached it a skeptic, and seeing > first-hand what I can do with it in simply minutes as opposed to hours or > days starting from scratch---five packages is the minimum system, no > massive configuration required, it just works out of the box---and easy, > simple, secure local and remote management? I'm sold. > > Filesystems get more complex all the time; all modern filesystems resemble > databases more than they do filesystems of decades gone by. Filesystems of > decades gone by could be interpreted by a human being by reading the raw > disk blocks. Now we must use tools to inspect and repair e.g., zfs, btrfs, > NTFS, or ReiserFS. People whined at the introduction of filesystems which > were opaque to humans. However, the things that these filesystems provide > vastly outweigh the Old Dominion of relatively simple and linear > filesystems, and that's why they're popular: They themselves are more > complex, */but they simplify the system overall/*. And that's worthwhile, > no matter whether you're a programmer or an administrator. > > --- Mike > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: 20140906/9278ae8b/attachment.html> > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mike at trausch.us Sat Sep 6 20:31:43 2014 From: mike at trausch.us (Michael B. Trausch) Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2014 20:31:43 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> Message-ID: <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> On 09/06/2014 05:36 PM, Charles Shapiro wrote: > Mike, this is real interesting. I started out suspicious and hostile about > systemd, and the press didn't help. Your posts are changing my mind. I was very skeptical myself. Specifically, the whole Upstart thing turned me off to the idea of sysvinit replacements for quite some time. It wasn't until I realized that most of the distributions switched and that RHEL 7 was going to use it that I started learning it---quite reluctantly. It took a while to convince me. It wasn't until I cross-compiled a standalone busybox-based system for the R? that I realized that this was /exactly/ what we need. I built 5 packages, configured the boot process, and it actually worked. I got a shell on the console. After stripping all of the binaries, it was /tiny/. And could fit on /anything/ we have today, save for places where there is no hope for the Linux kernel to ever run, such as a PIC or AVR 8-bit MCU. --- Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mike at trausch.us Sat Sep 6 20:50:15 2014 From: mike at trausch.us (Michael B. Trausch) Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2014 20:50:15 -0400 Subject: [ale] Systemd for October? Message-ID: <540BABC7.1070703@trausch.us> Would there be interest in me putting together a talk for systemd and presenting it in October? I can't do it this month... still getting over the ick from post-surgery and wouldn't be able to do a good job at all. Still haven't gone more than about 2 miles away from the house since then... Anyway, let me know! ? Mike From jim.kinney at gmail.com Sat Sep 6 23:12:52 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2014 23:12:52 -0400 Subject: [ale] Systemd for October? In-Reply-To: <540BABC7.1070703@trausch.us> References: <540BABC7.1070703@trausch.us> Message-ID: Ah ha! A dumb sucker has, er , um , a kind person has volunteered to speak on the technical merits of systemd for October. Sounds good and it's timely. On Sep 6, 2014 8:52 PM, "Michael B. Trausch" wrote: > Would there be interest in me putting together a talk for systemd and > presenting it in October? > > I can't do it this month... still getting over the ick from post-surgery > and wouldn't be able to do a good job at all. Still haven't gone more than > about 2 miles away from the house since then... > > Anyway, let me know! > > ? Mike > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pbcartwright at gmail.com Sun Sep 7 06:37:38 2014 From: pbcartwright at gmail.com (Paul Cartwright) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2014 06:37:38 -0400 Subject: [ale] Systemd for October? In-Reply-To: <540BABC7.1070703@trausch.us> References: <540BABC7.1070703@trausch.us> Message-ID: <540C3572.50607@gmail.com> + 1 !!!! > Would there be interest in me putting together a talk for systemd and > presenting it in October? > > I can't do it this month... still getting over the ick from > post-surgery and wouldn't be able to do a good job at all. Still > haven't gone more than about 2 miles away from the house since then... > > Anyway, let me know! -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 From leamhall at gmail.com Sun Sep 7 08:00:52 2014 From: leamhall at gmail.com (Leam Hall) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2014 08:00:52 -0400 Subject: [ale] Systemd for October? In-Reply-To: <540C3572.50607@gmail.com> References: <540BABC7.1070703@trausch.us> <540C3572.50607@gmail.com> Message-ID: <540C48F4.4000609@gmail.com> >> Would there be interest in me putting together a talk for systemd and >> presenting it in October? >> >> Anyway, let me know! Especially if you can do it for us remote members. :) -- http://31challenge.net http://31challenge.net/insight From jkinney at jimkinney.us Sun Sep 7 08:23:43 2014 From: jkinney at jimkinney.us (Jim Kinney) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2014 08:23:43 -0400 Subject: [ale] Systemd for October? In-Reply-To: <540C48F4.4000609@gmail.com> References: <540BABC7.1070703@trausch.us> <540C3572.50607@gmail.com> <540C48F4.4000609@gmail.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 I'll see what can be done. Live - maybe. Post - yeah (if I can get Aaron on the mix down) On September 7, 2014 8:00:52 AM EDT, Leam Hall wrote: >>> Would there be interest in me putting together a talk for systemd >and >>> presenting it in October? >>> >>> Anyway, let me know! > >Especially if you can do it for us remote members. :) > >-- >http://31challenge.net >http://31challenge.net/insight >_______________________________________________ >Ale mailing list >Ale at ale.org >http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo - -- Jim Kinney Linux Systems Analyst Physicist/Brewer http://jimkinney.us -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: APG v1.1.1 iQJwBAEBCgBaBQJUDE5OUxxKaW0gS2lubmV5IChCcmV3ZXIsIFBoeXNpY2lzdCwg Q2F0IEhlcmRlciwgU3lzdGVtcyBBbmFseXN0KSA8amtpbm5leUBqaW1raW5uZXku dXM+AAoJEIm+DWlR6PEqgI4P/0pyvFUhVNaBI6uZZ97zQaVl9KIXaI0xJ+QrxG+F 2VnFk5kTjh8vZsTPvkKEnm7FnEbMgwNH8V4jLcVVKqowALv17XbclwO3dihoWHvL Ydi2ptheE/gHCSRugHP3sQK+RT0j9J1d/u59C93Jz2V8Dsfrj3mVX7SyMnJeboqx CFlIxHRlSQNNVLMHhxmF9XYmy97BhoZt76RttuaIB5Dlk75k3ppMpnPBzuRVMttI 9RHXMVJ2NkeMcm8TVUjaEnAIUnLU2cK3L5smxsEeU4Udxw3tGSxIGKfddgJ3CTzq xCdeE6jJx5dQatOpb1swvZ0IU6W6Mk26RMAA9ALXNj5DvxH8c+XikOAjGrJJo1hK cu55oyBNV6RG9H6RQSl+bfCn054ZnWDdZiGa2Ts0Rl2G6VdCCkxLbU6v568WaIj4 tu3ZhM0Xqdm8GE3J8i4UDEEjkrdBqQRFWqWhiP8ZFpkVsT6HpHvemmoCWeGYBsEx lhwI6kukIoHwxy6RCnRiQc+H3rWbbkuEQ82IT3AgTUM0pBqMeja3abGeVhC5Iajf vpD5rNMhBPD9qd78blBuJKLQp3xg58DbLruUqs0lMOhC1egI2CpOyTc7lkedGFIb UKAfsQiXFOMj7/+VHfb12SJe1cg1wmvYO2YnB8tPRcdANyk+IsAwFaT9LuhrZC7Z Ej8b =rZLi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From pbcartwright at gmail.com Sun Sep 7 09:06:06 2014 From: pbcartwright at gmail.com (Paul Cartwright) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2014 09:06:06 -0400 Subject: [ale] Systemd for October? In-Reply-To: <540C48F4.4000609@gmail.com> References: <540BABC7.1070703@trausch.us> <540C3572.50607@gmail.com> <540C48F4.4000609@gmail.com> Message-ID: <540C583E.9030601@gmail.com> On 09/07/2014 08:00 AM, Leam Hall wrote: >>> Would there be interest in me putting together a talk for systemd and >>> presenting it in October? >>> >>> Anyway, let me know! > > Especially if you can do it for us remote members. :) > +2 !! unless you can bring it to Athens :) -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 From jdp at algoloma.com Sun Sep 7 09:25:38 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2014 09:25:38 -0400 Subject: [ale] Systemd for October? In-Reply-To: <540C48F4.4000609@gmail.com> References: <540BABC7.1070703@trausch.us> <540C3572.50607@gmail.com> <540C48F4.4000609@gmail.com> Message-ID: <540C5CD2.8060101@algoloma.com> On 09/07/2014 08:00 AM, Leam Hall wrote: >>> Would there be interest in me putting together a talk for systemd and >>> presenting it in October? >>> >>> Anyway, let me know! > > Especially if you can do it for us remote members. :) We are all volunteers here. I'd love to allow remote viewing at ALE-NW. Just need someone to step up with the * equipment * know how * desire to donate time and effort to make it happen From mike at trausch.us Sun Sep 7 09:30:09 2014 From: mike at trausch.us (Michael Trausch) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 09:30:09 -0400 Subject: [ale] Systemd for October? In-Reply-To: <540C5CD2.8060101@algoloma.com> References: <540BABC7.1070703@trausch.us> <540C3572.50607@gmail.com> <540C48F4.4000609@gmail.com> <540C5CD2.8060101@algoloma.com> Message-ID: <27E793CC-17CB-462C-B085-8AB3D9583FE1@trausch.us> I can do phone conference. I can not do video by phone yet. If I can figure that out that'd be cool. Otherwise at a minimum y'all will be able to hopefully dial in and follow along. :) Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 7, 2014, at 9:25 AM, JD wrote: > > On 09/07/2014 08:00 AM, Leam Hall wrote: >>>> Would there be interest in me putting together a talk for systemd and >>>> presenting it in October? >>>> >>>> Anyway, let me know! >> >> Especially if you can do it for us remote members. :) > > We are all volunteers here. > > I'd love to allow remote viewing at ALE-NW. Just need someone to step up with the > * equipment > * know how > * desire to donate time and effort to make it happen > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo From jim.kinney at gmail.com Sun Sep 7 10:06:58 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 10:06:58 -0400 Subject: [ale] Systemd for October? In-Reply-To: <27E793CC-17CB-462C-B085-8AB3D9583FE1@trausch.us> References: <540BABC7.1070703@trausch.us> <540C3572.50607@gmail.com> <540C48F4.4000609@gmail.com> <540C5CD2.8060101@algoloma.com> <27E793CC-17CB-462C-B085-8AB3D9583FE1@trausch.us> Message-ID: Hmm. Ham radio has a slow scan video. Think 1 fps. Open source video conference tool plus a live exported screen grabber. On Sep 7, 2014 9:31 AM, "Michael Trausch" wrote: > I can do phone conference. I can not do video by phone yet. If I can > figure that out that'd be cool. Otherwise at a minimum y'all will be able > to hopefully dial in and follow along. :) > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Sep 7, 2014, at 9:25 AM, JD wrote: > > > > On 09/07/2014 08:00 AM, Leam Hall wrote: > >>>> Would there be interest in me putting together a talk for systemd and > >>>> presenting it in October? > >>>> > >>>> Anyway, let me know! > >> > >> Especially if you can do it for us remote members. :) > > > > We are all volunteers here. > > > > I'd love to allow remote viewing at ALE-NW. Just need someone to step > up with the > > * equipment > > * know how > > * desire to donate time and effort to make it happen > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pbcartwright at gmail.com Sun Sep 7 10:16:22 2014 From: pbcartwright at gmail.com (Paul Cartwright) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2014 10:16:22 -0400 Subject: [ale] Systemd for October? In-Reply-To: <540C5CD2.8060101@algoloma.com> References: <540BABC7.1070703@trausch.us> <540C3572.50607@gmail.com> <540C48F4.4000609@gmail.com> <540C5CD2.8060101@algoloma.com> Message-ID: <540C68B6.2070401@gmail.com> On 09/07/2014 09:25 AM, JD wrote: > We are all volunteers here. > > I'd love to allow remote viewing at ALE-NW. Just need someone to step up with the > * equipment > * know how > * desire to donate time and effort to make it happen > what about skype recording.. http://www.dvdvideosoft.com/products/dvd/Free-Video-Call-Recorder-for-Skype.htm -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 From jdp at algoloma.com Sun Sep 7 10:40:54 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2014 10:40:54 -0400 Subject: [ale] Systemd for October? In-Reply-To: <540C68B6.2070401@gmail.com> References: <540BABC7.1070703@trausch.us> <540C3572.50607@gmail.com> <540C48F4.4000609@gmail.com> <540C5CD2.8060101@algoloma.com> <540C68B6.2070401@gmail.com> Message-ID: <540C6E76.6050400@algoloma.com> On 09/07/2014 10:16 AM, Paul Cartwright wrote: > On 09/07/2014 09:25 AM, JD wrote: >> We are all volunteers here. >> >> I'd love to allow remote viewing at ALE-NW. Just need someone to step up with the >> * equipment >> * know how >> * desire to donate time and effort to make it happen >> > what about skype recording.. > http://www.dvdvideosoft.com/products/dvd/Free-Video-Call-Recorder-for-Skype.htm > Are you volunteering? Great! From bugyatl at gmail.com Sun Sep 7 10:51:27 2014 From: bugyatl at gmail.com (Boris Borisov) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 10:51:27 -0400 Subject: [ale] Systemd for October? In-Reply-To: <540C6E76.6050400@algoloma.com> References: <540BABC7.1070703@trausch.us> <540C3572.50607@gmail.com> <540C48F4.4000609@gmail.com> <540C5CD2.8060101@algoloma.com> <540C68B6.2070401@gmail.com> <540C6E76.6050400@algoloma.com> Message-ID: We need PC with USB camera and capture card for the signal from the projector ... And some live streaming service ... On Sun, Sep 7, 2014 at 10:40 AM, JD wrote: > On 09/07/2014 10:16 AM, Paul Cartwright wrote: > > On 09/07/2014 09:25 AM, JD wrote: > >> We are all volunteers here. > >> > >> I'd love to allow remote viewing at ALE-NW. Just need someone to step > up with the > >> * equipment > >> * know how > >> * desire to donate time and effort to make it happen > >> > > what about skype recording.. > > > http://www.dvdvideosoft.com/products/dvd/Free-Video-Call-Recorder-for-Skype.htm > > > > Are you volunteering? Great! > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pbcartwright at gmail.com Sun Sep 7 11:28:58 2014 From: pbcartwright at gmail.com (Paul Cartwright) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2014 11:28:58 -0400 Subject: [ale] Systemd for October? In-Reply-To: <540C6E76.6050400@algoloma.com> References: <540BABC7.1070703@trausch.us> <540C3572.50607@gmail.com> <540C48F4.4000609@gmail.com> <540C5CD2.8060101@algoloma.com> <540C68B6.2070401@gmail.com> <540C6E76.6050400@algoloma.com> Message-ID: <540C79BA.8070205@gmail.com> On 09/07/2014 10:40 AM, JD wrote: >> what about skype recording.. >> > http://www.dvdvideosoft.com/products/dvd/Free-Video-Call-Recorder-for-Skype.htm >> > > Are you volunteering? Great! and I noticed after I looked that up, that it was a Winders .EXE download... -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 From kilpatms at gmail.com Sun Sep 7 11:31:04 2014 From: kilpatms at gmail.com (Sean Kilpatrick) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2014 11:31:04 -0400 Subject: [ale] audio blues Message-ID: <1410103864.3014.21.camel@localhost> One headache with new mobo: sound. Remember what happened when you lent out an LP to a >friend< and it came back so scratched up you could barely hear the music for the static and pops? That's what the audio sounds like from any source: video, mp3, ogg, whatever. Video is the least bad, which might be a clue that this is more a software problem than a hardware one. Standard audio files, including system generated sounds, are unbearably bad as the skips combine with the scratchy sound to make the file unrecognizable. I thought it might be a simple hardware problem with the female jack on the mobo. Tried the front headphone jack with the speaker set and no change. Tried using fairly good headphones; again no change. So, assuming, there is a bad component on the mobo, can I sidestep the problem by installing a low-end sound card or is the needed signal still going to be influenced by the bad component? By low-end I mean a $20 - $40 card. I don't need a high-end sound card as any game I might play will be making beeps and boops and not much else. If it might be a software problem, any clues on how to tweek the alsa.conf file would be appreciated. I looked at it but couldn't make much sense out of it. If another piece of software might do a better job than ALSA, I'm willing to try it. (I am NOT trying to start a flame war on the relative merits of ALSA -- I'd just like to be able to tell Mozart from Gershwin.) Sean From pbcartwright at gmail.com Sun Sep 7 11:42:56 2014 From: pbcartwright at gmail.com (Paul Cartwright) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2014 11:42:56 -0400 Subject: [ale] audio blues In-Reply-To: <1410103864.3014.21.camel@localhost> References: <1410103864.3014.21.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <540C7D00.8090400@gmail.com> On 09/07/2014 11:31 AM, Sean Kilpatrick wrote: If it might be a software problem, any clues on how to tweek the alsa.conf file would be appreciated. I looked at it but couldn't make much sense out of it. If another piece of software might do a better job than ALSA, I'm willing to try it. maybe you could boot a LiveCD and see if it still does it... -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 From bugyatl at gmail.com Sun Sep 7 12:08:46 2014 From: bugyatl at gmail.com (Boris Borisov) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 12:08:46 -0400 Subject: [ale] audio blues In-Reply-To: <540C7D00.8090400@gmail.com> References: <1410103864.3014.21.camel@localhost> <540C7D00.8090400@gmail.com> Message-ID: I have audio cards I'll give you one ... But first as Paul said try Live CD ... puppy linux is my friend normally ... Could it be IRQ problem ? On Sun, Sep 7, 2014 at 11:42 AM, Paul Cartwright wrote: > On 09/07/2014 11:31 AM, Sean Kilpatrick wrote: > If it might be a software problem, any clues on how to tweek the > alsa.conf file would be appreciated. I looked at it but couldn't make > much sense out of it. If another piece of software might do a better job > than ALSA, I'm willing to try it. > > maybe you could boot a LiveCD and see if it still does it... > > > -- > Paul Cartwright > Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdp at algoloma.com Sun Sep 7 12:58:18 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2014 12:58:18 -0400 Subject: [ale] audio blues In-Reply-To: <1410103864.3014.21.camel@localhost> References: <1410103864.3014.21.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <540C8EAA.5050603@algoloma.com> On 09/07/2014 11:31 AM, Sean Kilpatrick wrote: > Remember what happened when you lent out an LP to a >friend< and it came > back so scratched up you could barely hear the music for the static and > pops? No, I don't. Never owned any records. however, I do have a few SB16 cards (Live 5.1 actually) that I'd be willing to let go. Going the GA 400 Linux meetup in a few hrs. Let me know if you want one. From pbcartwright at gmail.com Sun Sep 7 13:04:15 2014 From: pbcartwright at gmail.com (Paul Cartwright) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2014 13:04:15 -0400 Subject: [ale] audio blues In-Reply-To: <540C8EAA.5050603@algoloma.com> References: <1410103864.3014.21.camel@localhost> <540C8EAA.5050603@algoloma.com> Message-ID: <540C900F.5030201@gmail.com> On 09/07/2014 12:58 PM, JD wrote: >> Remember what happened when you lent out an LP to a >friend< and it came >> > back so scratched up you could barely hear the music for the static and >> > pops? > No, I don't. Never owned any records. what?? seriously?? I was thinking of getting a usb turntable so I could hear the old familiar pops & cracks & skips of my old favorites... -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 From kilpatms at gmail.com Sun Sep 7 16:02:48 2014 From: kilpatms at gmail.com (Sean Kilpatrick) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2014 16:02:48 -0400 Subject: [ale] audio blues In-Reply-To: <540C7D00.8090400@gmail.com> References: <1410103864.3014.21.camel@localhost> <540C7D00.8090400@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1410120168.3006.9.camel@localhost> Loaded up a live CD of CentOS/KDE. Couldn't even get the system bell to make a sound. CD does not load ALSA. So, back to Square One. Downloaded Amarok, and tried that. 99% works. Still some very minor cracks and pops, but I easily can tell the difference between the clarinet and the oboe. I have no clue why other audio players, including KMix, Dragon Player, and VLC media player produce crappy sound while Amarok seems to work. I kinda assumed that underneath the various GUIs they were all using the same libraries. Whatever. Problem seems to be solved -- without needing yet another piece of hardware. Sean -------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Sun, 2014-09-07 at 11:42 -0400, Paul Cartwright wrote: > On 09/07/2014 11:31 AM, Sean Kilpatrick wrote: > If it might be a software problem, any clues on how to tweek the > alsa.conf file would be appreciated. I looked at it but couldn't make > much sense out of it. If another piece of software might do a better job > than ALSA, I'm willing to try it. > > maybe you could boot a LiveCD and see if it still does it... > > From pbcartwright at gmail.com Sun Sep 7 18:09:08 2014 From: pbcartwright at gmail.com (Paul Cartwright) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2014 18:09:08 -0400 Subject: [ale] audio blues In-Reply-To: <1410120168.3006.9.camel@localhost> References: <1410103864.3014.21.camel@localhost> <540C7D00.8090400@gmail.com> <1410120168.3006.9.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <540CD784.7010407@gmail.com> On 09/07/2014 04:02 PM, Sean Kilpatrick wrote: > Loaded up a live CD of CentOS/KDE. > > Couldn't even get the system bell to make a sound. CD does not load > ALSA. > > So, back to Square One. Downloaded Amarok, and tried that. 99% works. > Still some very minor cracks and pops, but I easily can tell the > difference between the clarinet and the oboe. I have no clue why other > audio players, including KMix, Dragon Player, and VLC media player > produce crappy sound while Amarok seems to work. I kinda assumed that > underneath the various GUIs they were all using the same libraries. > > Whatever. > > Problem seems to be solved -- without needing yet another piece of > hardware. > > n maybe try banshee,,, -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 From kilpatms at gmail.com Sun Sep 7 18:57:44 2014 From: kilpatms at gmail.com (Sean Kilpatrick) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2014 18:57:44 -0400 Subject: [ale] audio blues In-Reply-To: <540CD784.7010407@gmail.com> References: <1410103864.3014.21.camel@localhost> <540C7D00.8090400@gmail.com> <1410120168.3006.9.camel@localhost> <540CD784.7010407@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1410130664.3006.11.camel@localhost> None of the repos on my list have banshee. I looked for that before Amarok. Sean ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Sun, 2014-09-07 at 18:09 -0400, Paul Cartwright wrote: > On 09/07/2014 04:02 PM, Sean Kilpatrick wrote: > > Loaded up a live CD of CentOS/KDE. > > > > Couldn't even get the system bell to make a sound. CD does not load > > ALSA. > > > > So, back to Square One. Downloaded Amarok, and tried that. 99% works. > > Still some very minor cracks and pops, but I easily can tell the > > difference between the clarinet and the oboe. I have no clue why other > > audio players, including KMix, Dragon Player, and VLC media player > > produce crappy sound while Amarok seems to work. I kinda assumed that > > underneath the various GUIs they were all using the same libraries. > > > > Whatever. > > > > Problem seems to be solved -- without needing yet another piece of > > hardware. > > > > n > maybe try banshee,,, > From jdp at algoloma.com Sun Sep 7 19:29:40 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2014 19:29:40 -0400 Subject: [ale] [ANNC] ALE-NW Meeting Thursday 9/11 @ 730p In-Reply-To: <540CD6F2.5080001@algoloma.com> References: <540CD6F2.5080001@algoloma.com> Message-ID: <540CEA64.8090802@algoloma.com> Topic: Tip Your Server, Please Date: 9/11 @ 7:30p - 9:30p-ish Where: SPSU J-266 Full Invitation: http://ale.org/?p=546 ================= Abstract: Pre-install server decisions, show a live server install and go through my first 5 minutes on a new server where the base packages and based line security are set for the system. I hope to see you there! =================================== ALE-NW meets the 2nd Thursday of the month at the SPSU campus. Please mark this on your calendar as a reoccurring meeting. The group usually adjourns to the Marietta Diner after the meeting. =================================== For a campus map and a link to directions please see or visit the ALE-NW webpage page at for information links from prior meetings. Learn more about the GA-400 Linux Group: http://www.meetup.com/GA-400-Linux-Group/ We informally meet most Sundays to discuss Linux. Free parking after 7pm in non-reserved spaces in the P60 deck is best. If you park before that time, you may get a ticket, boot, or towed. Building J, the Atrium building, is a short distance east of the parking deck. ====== ALE-NW at SPSU meetings are open events and we hope you will join us! We generally meet on the 2nd Thursday of the month, but always watch the ale.org email list for specifics. Also remember that topic suggestions and presentation offers the meetings can be emailed to [ jdp (at) algoloma (dot) com] or [griggs (dot) andy (at) gmail (dot) com] ====== The group has asked for these topics: Tentative Fall 2014 Schedule: * 9/20 - *InstallFest* - Saturday 10am-5pm * 10/9 - Linux Security * 11/13 - Linux Virtualization * 12/11 - Solstice / GPG Keysigning From leamhall at gmail.com Sun Sep 7 19:40:20 2014 From: leamhall at gmail.com (Leam Hall) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2014 19:40:20 -0400 Subject: [ale] Systemd for October? In-Reply-To: <540C79BA.8070205@gmail.com> References: <540BABC7.1070703@trausch.us> <540C3572.50607@gmail.com> <540C48F4.4000609@gmail.com> <540C5CD2.8060101@algoloma.com> <540C68B6.2070401@gmail.com> <540C6E76.6050400@algoloma.com> <540C79BA.8070205@gmail.com> Message-ID: <540CECE4.2040402@gmail.com> On 09/07/14 11:28, Paul Cartwright wrote: > On 09/07/2014 10:40 AM, JD wrote: >>> what about skype recording.. >>>> http://www.dvdvideosoft.com/products/dvd/Free-Video-Call-Recorder-for-Skype.htm >>>> >> Are you volunteering? Great! > and I noticed after I looked that up, that it was a Winders .EXE download... > I was more thinking a recording on someone's laptop, with some slides. Heck, a slide deck and audio would be pretty awesome. -- http://31challenge.net http://31challenge.net/insight From pbcartwright at gmail.com Sun Sep 7 20:01:06 2014 From: pbcartwright at gmail.com (Paul Cartwright) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2014 20:01:06 -0400 Subject: [ale] audio blues In-Reply-To: <1410130664.3006.11.camel@localhost> References: <1410103864.3014.21.camel@localhost> <540C7D00.8090400@gmail.com> <1410120168.3006.9.camel@localhost> <540CD784.7010407@gmail.com> <1410130664.3006.11.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <540CF1C2.5040904@gmail.com> On 09/07/2014 06:57 PM, Sean Kilpatrick wrote: > None of the repos on my list have banshee. I looked for that before > Amarok. https://apps.fedoraproject.org/packages/banshee/builds/ http://rpmfind.net/linux/rpm2html/search.php?query=banshee -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 From jdp at algoloma.com Sun Sep 7 21:00:11 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2014 21:00:11 -0400 Subject: [ale] audio blues In-Reply-To: <1410130664.3006.11.camel@localhost> References: <1410103864.3014.21.camel@localhost> <540C7D00.8090400@gmail.com> <1410120168.3006.9.camel@localhost> <540CD784.7010407@gmail.com> <1410130664.3006.11.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <540CFF9B.4090506@algoloma.com> Been using Clementine here for about a year. Nice, simple, plus built-in id3 tag editor. There's an android client that will remote control the server on the PC - nice for house music, assuming you don't have Plex already doing that stuff. On 09/07/2014 06:57 PM, Sean Kilpatrick wrote: > None of the repos on my list have banshee. I looked for that before > Amarok. > > Sean > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > On Sun, 2014-09-07 at 18:09 -0400, Paul Cartwright wrote: >> On 09/07/2014 04:02 PM, Sean Kilpatrick wrote: >>> Loaded up a live CD of CentOS/KDE. >>> >>> Couldn't even get the system bell to make a sound. CD does not load >>> ALSA. >>> >>> So, back to Square One. Downloaded Amarok, and tried that. 99% works. >>> Still some very minor cracks and pops, but I easily can tell the >>> difference between the clarinet and the oboe. I have no clue why other >>> audio players, including KMix, Dragon Player, and VLC media player >>> produce crappy sound while Amarok seems to work. I kinda assumed that >>> underneath the various GUIs they were all using the same libraries. >>> >>> Whatever. >>> >>> Problem seems to be solved -- without needing yet another piece of >>> hardware. >>> >>> n >> maybe try banshee,,, >> > > From questy at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 10:14:34 2014 From: questy at gmail.com (Jerald Sheets) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 10:14:34 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> Message-ID: Haven?t been able to read all the messages, but here?s the latex on the BSD front regarding SystemD?. Maybe you BSD folks won?t be safe from the systems onslaught after all? http://bsd.slashdot.org/story/14/09/08/0250207/gsoc-project-works-to-emulate-systemd-for-openbsd?utm_source=rss1.0mainlinkanon&utm_medium=feed Jerald -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 496 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: From mike at trausch.us Mon Sep 8 10:58:54 2014 From: mike at trausch.us (Michael B. Trausch) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 10:58:54 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> Message-ID: <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> On 09/08/2014 10:14 AM, Jerald Sheets wrote: > Haven?t been able to read all the messages, but here?s the latex on the BSD front regarding SystemD?. Maybe you BSD folks won?t be safe from the systems onslaught after all? I am not at all surprised. The BSDs have for a long time included Linux API/ABI emulation. I won't be surprised if we wind up seeing one of the BSDs actually adopting systemd and using it as a measurement of their Linux emulation. :-) ? Mike From james.sumners at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 11:58:48 2014 From: james.sumners at gmail.com (James Sumners) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 11:58:48 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> Message-ID: I would. As I said in my original reply in this thread -- you either adopt systemd to run the newest versions of GNOME or you don't get GNOME. That's why this BSD project exists, to add support for a system they do not want just so they can continue to use a desktop manager. It is a completely ludicrous situation that a specific system I it manager is required to use a desktop environment. On Monday, September 8, 2014, Michael B. Trausch wrote: > On 09/08/2014 10:14 AM, Jerald Sheets wrote: > >> Haven?t been able to read all the messages, but here?s the latex on the >> BSD front regarding SystemD?. Maybe you BSD folks won?t be safe from the >> systems onslaught after all? >> > > I am not at all surprised. The BSDs have for a long time included Linux > API/ABI emulation. I won't be surprised if we wind up seeing one of the > BSDs actually adopting systemd and using it as a measurement of their Linux > emulation. :-) > > ? Mike > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- James Sumners http://james.roomfullofmirrors.com/ "All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted." Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto) CH:D 59 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adrya.stembridge at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 12:08:27 2014 From: adrya.stembridge at gmail.com (Adrya Stembridge) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 12:08:27 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT - SED drive compatibility In-Reply-To: <53FB7413.1050507@algoloma.com> References: <53FB7413.1050507@algoloma.com> Message-ID: I'm learning that I may have some software-based encryption options with LUKS and dm-crypt. The machine I'm working on now will be replaced in 3 years, so I just need something to get by on till then. It's primarily used for a web application and database, and has fewer than 50 users. There are a lot of writes happening, but no encoding - just text/html and PDF creation. Is using software encryption a bad idea for a server? Would that provide better performance than going from 15000 to 7200 rpm SAS drive? On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 1:36 PM, JD wrote: > If you care about being FIPS certified, i wouldn't touch ANY non-certified > configuration. No way, no how. Why risk your job over something like that? > > OTOH, if you want encrypted storage and don't care, then let your budget > be your > guide. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From warlord at MIT.EDU Mon Sep 8 12:09:38 2014 From: warlord at MIT.EDU (Derek Atkins) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 12:09:38 -0400 Subject: [ale] What happen when... In-Reply-To: <540A3D48.2080008@aim.com> (James Earl Smith's message of "Fri, 05 Sep 2014 18:46:32 -0400") References: <540A3D48.2080008@aim.com> Message-ID: James Earl Smith writes: > I was just wondering what happens to a valid signature on a gpg key > when the key is revoked or goes out of date ? > > I have two keys that are a few years old. I looked over the signatures > of the keys that signed mine , several have been revoked. So, does > this lessen the strength of my key, are the signatures are still valid? It's all about interpretation, which is all in the eye of the beholder. RFC 4880 (the latest OpenPGP specification) does not talk about that. Technically, yes, the signature will still verify even when the key has expired. However most implementations will notice the expiration and effectively ignore any trust from that. > James Earl Smith -derek -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/ PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH warlord at MIT.EDU PGP key available From terrorpup at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 12:14:17 2014 From: terrorpup at gmail.com (Chuck Payne) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 12:14:17 -0400 Subject: [ale] [OT] Need a favor Message-ID: Guys, I need to ask a favor. My den is working on a computer pin. Instead of using old laptops or old pc to teach the cubs. We are going help the kids build their own PC. With the price of Pi, the cubs can built their own. My favor is this, I need Monitor, I like to see anyone has old LCD 15" or 17" square monitor. I like to find ones with DVI connector. I figure I would ask my ale friends because many of you might have in a garage, basement, or attic old LCD monitors not being use. -- Terror PUP a.k.a Chuck "PUP" Payne (678) 636-9678 ----------------------------------------- Discover it! Enjoy it! Share it! openSUSE Linux. ----------------------------------------- openSUSE -- Terrorpup openSUSE Ambassador/openSUSE Member Community Manager -- Southeast Linux Foundation (SELF) skype,twiiter,identica,friendfeed -- terrorpup freenode(irc) --terrorpup/lupinstein Register Linux Userid: 155363 Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. See you at Southeast Linux Fest, June 19-21, 2015 in Charlotte, NC. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From allen at ua.edu Mon Sep 8 12:43:18 2014 From: allen at ua.edu (Beddingfield, Allen) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 16:43:18 +0000 Subject: [ale] [OT] Need a favor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey Chuck, I buy computer and monitors from an e-recycling company and refurbish/resell the computers. I have some LCDs that I have $25 each in. If you don't find any/enough for free, I would be glad to let you some at my cost on them. I'm going to be over there in the Sandy Springs area next week, and could bring a few over. Just let me know if you want me to, and I'll pack a few with me when I go. Thanks! Allen B. -- Allen Beddingfield Systems Engineer The University of Alabama ________________________________________ From: ale-bounces at ale.org [ale-bounces at ale.org] on behalf of Chuck Payne [terrorpup at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 11:14 AM To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts - Yes! We run Linux! Subject: [ale] [OT] Need a favor Guys, I need to ask a favor. My den is working on a computer pin. Instead of using old laptops or old pc to teach the cubs. We are going help the kids build their own PC. With the price of Pi, the cubs can built their own. My favor is this, I need Monitor, I like to see anyone has old LCD 15" or 17" square monitor. I like to find ones with DVI connector. I figure I would ask my ale friends because many of you might have in a garage, basement, or attic old LCD monitors not being use. -- Terror PUP a.k.a Chuck "PUP" Payne (678) 636-9678 ----------------------------------------- Discover it! Enjoy it! Share it! openSUSE Linux. ----------------------------------------- openSUSE -- Terrorpup openSUSE Ambassador/openSUSE Member Community Manager -- Southeast Linux Foundation (SELF) skype,twiiter,identica,friendfeed -- terrorpup freenode(irc) --terrorpup/lupinstein Register Linux Userid: 155363 Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. See you at Southeast Linux Fest, June 19-21, 2015 in Charlotte, NC. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo From warlord at MIT.EDU Mon Sep 8 12:45:26 2014 From: warlord at MIT.EDU (Derek Atkins) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 12:45:26 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: (James Sumners's message of "Mon, 8 Sep 2014 11:58:48 -0400") References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> Message-ID: James Sumners writes: > I would. As I said in my original reply in this thread -- you either adopt > systemd to run the newest versions of GNOME or you don't get GNOME. That's > why this BSD project exists, to add support for a system they do not want > just so they can continue to use a desktop manager. It is a completely > ludicrous situation that a specific system I it manager is required to use > a desktop environment. Personally I'd rather see GNOME die. Long live XFCE! :) -derek -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/ PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH warlord at MIT.EDU PGP key available From allen at ua.edu Mon Sep 8 12:45:36 2014 From: allen at ua.edu (Beddingfield, Allen) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 16:45:36 +0000 Subject: [ale] [OT] Need a favor In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Oops, sorry. I meant to reply directly to Chuck, and not to the list. Hmmm....so I'm creating another message of interest to no one else by sending this message.... maybe not such a good idea after all :D -- Allen Beddingfield Systems Engineer The University of Alabama ________________________________________ From: ale-bounces at ale.org [ale-bounces at ale.org] on behalf of Beddingfield, Allen [allen at ua.edu] Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 11:43 AM To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [ale] [OT] Need a favor Hey Chuck, I buy computer and monitors from an e-recycling company and refurbish/resell the computers. I have some LCDs that I have $25 each in. If you don't find any/enough for free, I would be glad to let you some at my cost on them. I'm going to be over there in the Sandy Springs area next week, and could bring a few over. Just let me know if you want me to, and I'll pack a few with me when I go. Thanks! Allen B. -- Allen Beddingfield Systems Engineer The University of Alabama ________________________________________ From: ale-bounces at ale.org [ale-bounces at ale.org] on behalf of Chuck Payne [terrorpup at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 11:14 AM To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts - Yes! We run Linux! Subject: [ale] [OT] Need a favor Guys, I need to ask a favor. My den is working on a computer pin. Instead of using old laptops or old pc to teach the cubs. We are going help the kids build their own PC. With the price of Pi, the cubs can built their own. My favor is this, I need Monitor, I like to see anyone has old LCD 15" or 17" square monitor. I like to find ones with DVI connector. I figure I would ask my ale friends because many of you might have in a garage, basement, or attic old LCD monitors not being use. -- Terror PUP a.k.a Chuck "PUP" Payne (678) 636-9678 ----------------------------------------- Discover it! Enjoy it! Share it! openSUSE Linux. ----------------------------------------- openSUSE -- Terrorpup openSUSE Ambassador/openSUSE Member Community Manager -- Southeast Linux Foundation (SELF) skype,twiiter,identica,friendfeed -- terrorpup freenode(irc) --terrorpup/lupinstein Register Linux Userid: 155363 Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. See you at Southeast Linux Fest, June 19-21, 2015 in Charlotte, NC. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo From jim.kinney at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 12:46:51 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 12:46:51 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT - SED drive compatibility In-Reply-To: References: <53FB7413.1050507@algoloma.com> Message-ID: Using LUKS software encryption on a system with 15k RPM drives will be a minimal hit on performance as long as there is adequate RAM and cores to do the decryption. A single core is enough and the RAM needs are actually small. A few blocks at a time are fed through for decrypt then passed to buffers for use. I use LUKS on EVERY public facing (and many internal only systems) server. The only big caveat is the need to have remote console so the password can be entered for key decryption after a reboot. On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 12:08 PM, Adrya Stembridge < adrya.stembridge at gmail.com> wrote: > I'm learning that I may have some software-based encryption options with > LUKS and dm-crypt. The machine I'm working on now will be replaced in 3 > years, so I just need something to get by on till then. It's primarily > used for a web application and database, and has fewer than 50 users. > There are a lot of writes happening, but no encoding - just text/html and > PDF creation. > > Is using software encryption a bad idea for a server? Would that provide > better performance than going from 15000 to 7200 rpm SAS drive? > > > > On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 1:36 PM, JD wrote: > > > If you care about being FIPS certified, i wouldn't touch ANY > non-certified > > configuration. No way, no how. Why risk your job over something like > that? > > > > OTOH, if you want encrypted storage and don't care, then let your budget > > be your > > guide. > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140908/a4976ef8/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 12:52:29 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 12:52:29 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 12:45 PM, Derek Atkins wrote: > James Sumners writes: > > > I would. As I said in my original reply in this thread -- you either > adopt > > systemd to run the newest versions of GNOME or you don't get GNOME. > That's > > why this BSD project exists, to add support for a system they do not want > > just so they can continue to use a desktop manager. It is a completely > > ludicrous situation that a specific system I it manager is required to > use > > a desktop environment. > > Personally I'd rather see GNOME die. > But, but, but, ..... We NEED a windows style registry for Linux. My life would be so incomplete without it! OK. We really need a window manager that actually uses every compiled and scripting language there is. Gnome needs to add a few more, that are all required, of course, to be fully complete on the "fracktheusermaintaintingthismess" scale. Ada, ruby and LISP and it's done. May need some fortran for graphics :-) > > Long live XFCE! :) > > -derek > > -- > Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory > Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) > URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/ PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH > warlord at MIT.EDU PGP key available > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From allen at ua.edu Mon Sep 8 12:54:14 2014 From: allen at ua.edu (Beddingfield, Allen) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 16:54:14 +0000 Subject: [ale] OT - SED drive compatibility In-Reply-To: References: <53FB7413.1050507@algoloma.com> , Message-ID: I'm curious about why you would encrypt filesystems on servers, if you have control of physical access? If the server is up and online, the drives would be decrypted, and the files would be accessible by any remote exploit. I'm sure I'm missing a good reason for it, but I haven't had enough caffeine to fully get the brain cranked up today :D -- Allen Beddingfield Systems Engineer The University of Alabama ________________________________________ From: ale-bounces at ale.org [ale-bounces at ale.org] on behalf of Jim Kinney [jim.kinney at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 11:46 AM To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [ale] OT - SED drive compatibility Using LUKS software encryption on a system with 15k RPM drives will be a minimal hit on performance as long as there is adequate RAM and cores to do the decryption. A single core is enough and the RAM needs are actually small. A few blocks at a time are fed through for decrypt then passed to buffers for use. I use LUKS on EVERY public facing (and many internal only systems) server. The only big caveat is the need to have remote console so the password can be entered for key decryption after a reboot. From leamhall at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 12:56:21 2014 From: leamhall at gmail.com (leam hall) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 12:56:21 -0400 Subject: [ale] [OT] Need a favor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'll kick in a few $$ for the pack. On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 12:45 PM, Beddingfield, Allen wrote: > Oops, sorry. I meant to reply directly to Chuck, and not to the list. > Hmmm....so I'm creating another message of interest to no one else by sending this message.... maybe not such a good idea after all :D > > -- > Allen Beddingfield > Systems Engineer > The University of Alabama > > ________________________________________ > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [ale-bounces at ale.org] on behalf of Beddingfield, Allen [allen at ua.edu] > Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 11:43 AM > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts > Subject: Re: [ale] [OT] Need a favor > > Hey Chuck, > I buy computer and monitors from an e-recycling company and refurbish/resell the computers. I have some LCDs that I have $25 each in. If you don't find any/enough for free, I would be glad to let you some at my cost on them. I'm going to be over there in the Sandy Springs area next week, and could bring a few over. Just let me know if you want me to, and I'll pack a few with me when I go. > Thanks! > Allen B. > -- > Allen Beddingfield > Systems Engineer > The University of Alabama > > ________________________________________ > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [ale-bounces at ale.org] on behalf of Chuck Payne [terrorpup at gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 11:14 AM > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts - Yes! We run Linux! > Subject: [ale] [OT] Need a favor > > Guys, > > I need to ask a favor. My den is working on a computer pin. Instead of > using old laptops or old pc to teach the cubs. We are going help the kids > build their own PC. With the price of Pi, the cubs can built their own. > > My favor is this, I need Monitor, I like to see anyone has old LCD 15" or > 17" square monitor. I like to find ones with DVI connector. I figure I > would ask my ale friends because many of you might have in a garage, > basement, or attic old LCD monitors not being use. > > -- > Terror PUP a.k.a > Chuck "PUP" Payne > > (678) 636-9678 > ----------------------------------------- > Discover it! Enjoy it! Share it! openSUSE Linux. > ----------------------------------------- > openSUSE -- Terrorpup > openSUSE Ambassador/openSUSE Member > Community Manager -- Southeast Linux Foundation (SELF) > skype,twiiter,identica,friendfeed -- terrorpup > freenode(irc) --terrorpup/lupinstein > Register Linux Userid: 155363 > > Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to > package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio > a try. > See you at Southeast Linux Fest, June 19-21, 2015 in Charlotte, NC. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -- Mind on a Mission From james.sumners at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 12:59:47 2014 From: james.sumners at gmail.com (James Sumners) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 12:59:47 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 12:45 PM, Derek Atkins wrote: > Personally I'd rather see GNOME die. > > Long live XFCE! :) > And I agree with you. GNOME 2 was the last one I liked, but I had long since switched to XFCE. But GNOME is the poster child example for showing how far systemd's tentacles reach. -- James Sumners http://james.roomfullofmirrors.com/ "All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted." Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto) CH:D 59 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evan at banyash.com Mon Sep 8 13:04:45 2014 From: evan at banyash.com (Evan Banyash) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 13:04:45 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> Message-ID: You guys do know XFCE is basically abandoned at this point, right? If you want something lightweight you should be using LXQT. On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 12:59 PM, James Sumners wrote: > On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 12:45 PM, Derek Atkins wrote: > > > Personally I'd rather see GNOME die. > > > > Long live XFCE! :) > > > > And I agree with you. GNOME 2 was the last one I liked, but I had long > since switched to XFCE. But GNOME is the poster child example for showing > how far systemd's tentacles reach. > > > -- > James Sumners > http://james.roomfullofmirrors.com/ > > "All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological > personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the > corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a > condition to which they are quickly addicted." > > Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto) > CH:D 59 > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140908/078abe4a/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 13:12:03 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 13:12:03 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT - SED drive compatibility In-Reply-To: References: <53FB7413.1050507@algoloma.com> Message-ID: Added layer of physical security for HIPAA compliance led to the wholesale adoption. Yes, remote access and data theft would occur to a decrypted filesystem once it's running. But much of my work often requires encrypted data at rest for many system and the performance hit is essentially trivial compared to the rest of the system, so it's easy to to keep that as a default. The HPC systems have absolutely all security disabled and are hidden behind firewalls on private LAN, etc. It also indicates a level of unsure trust of the physical access to the systems. Never had an issue but don't want to be on the wrong end if something does happen. On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Beddingfield, Allen wrote: > I'm curious about why you would encrypt filesystems on servers, if you > have control of physical access? If the server is up and online, the > drives would be decrypted, and the files would be accessible by any remote > exploit. I'm sure I'm missing a good reason for it, but I haven't had > enough caffeine to fully get the brain cranked up today :D > -- > Allen Beddingfield > Systems Engineer > The University of Alabama > > ________________________________________ > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [ale-bounces at ale.org] on behalf of Jim Kinney [ > jim.kinney at gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 11:46 AM > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts > Subject: Re: [ale] OT - SED drive compatibility > > Using LUKS software encryption on a system with 15k RPM drives will be a > minimal hit on performance as long as there is adequate RAM and cores to do > the decryption. A single core is enough and the RAM needs are actually > small. A few blocks at a time are fed through for decrypt then passed to > buffers for use. > > I use LUKS on EVERY public facing (and many internal only systems) server. > The only big caveat is the need to have remote console so the password can > be entered for key decryption after a reboot. > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 13:20:27 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 13:20:27 -0400 Subject: [ale] power Message-ID: Had a power blink that hit the entire campus, hospital, everything at Emory. Operating rooms went dark for about 10 seconds then it all came back. There are at least 2 substations that power Emory. The hospital is SUPPOSED to be power-outage proof (thus MY concerns for the ebola work!). What power outage gear is being used at home by ALE? At work by ALE people? Apparently the datacenter here stayed up. But the power outage in the operating rooms occured while surgery was ongoing including brain surgery with a computer-controlled microscope. Yikes! -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adrya.stembridge at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 13:20:37 2014 From: adrya.stembridge at gmail.com (Adrya Stembridge) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 13:20:37 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT - SED drive compatibility In-Reply-To: References: <53FB7413.1050507@algoloma.com> Message-ID: NIH requires (among other things) FIPS certified encryption on data-at-rest for any NIH funded grant/research project. Our DC is secure, but it would be technically possible for another admin to potentially gain access to the rack and our server drives. This adds another layer of security. Maybe overkill? In any case, it's becoming policy for many agencies. On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > Added layer of physical security for HIPAA compliance led to the wholesale > adoption. Yes, remote access and data theft would occur to a decrypted > filesystem once it's running. But much of my work often requires encrypted > data at rest for many system and the performance hit is essentially trivial > compared to the rest of the system, so it's easy to to keep that as a > default. The HPC systems have absolutely all security disabled and are > hidden behind firewalls on private LAN, etc. > > It also indicates a level of unsure trust of the physical access to the > systems. Never had an issue but don't want to be on the wrong end if > something does happen. > > On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Beddingfield, Allen wrote: > > > I'm curious about why you would encrypt filesystems on servers, if you > > have control of physical access? If the server is up and online, the > > drives would be decrypted, and the files would be accessible by any > remote > > exploit. I'm sure I'm missing a good reason for it, but I haven't had > > enough caffeine to fully get the brain cranked up today :D > > -- > > Allen Beddingfield > > Systems Engineer > > The University of Alabama > > > > ________________________________________ > > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [ale-bounces at ale.org] on behalf of Jim Kinney > [ > > jim.kinney at gmail.com] > > Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 11:46 AM > > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts > > Subject: Re: [ale] OT - SED drive compatibility > > > > Using LUKS software encryption on a system with 15k RPM drives will be a > > minimal hit on performance as long as there is adequate RAM and cores to > do > > the decryption. A single core is enough and the RAM needs are actually > > small. A few blocks at a time are fed through for decrypt then passed to > > buffers for use. > > > > I use LUKS on EVERY public facing (and many internal only systems) > server. > > The only big caveat is the need to have remote console so the password > can > > be entered for key decryption after a reboot. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > > > -- > -- > James P. Kinney III > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. > It won't fatten the dog. > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > * > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140908/45281a05/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From leamhall at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 13:25:37 2014 From: leamhall at gmail.com (leam hall) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 13:25:37 -0400 Subject: [ale] power In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm interested in this from a "need to get better power support" at home. On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 1:20 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > Had a power blink that hit the entire campus, hospital, everything at > Emory. Operating rooms went dark for about 10 seconds then it all came > back. > > There are at least 2 substations that power Emory. The hospital is SUPPOSED > to be power-outage proof (thus MY concerns for the ebola work!). > > What power outage gear is being used at home by ALE? At work by ALE people? > Apparently the datacenter here stayed up. But the power outage in the > operating rooms occured while surgery was ongoing including brain surgery > with a computer-controlled microscope. > > Yikes! > > -- > -- > James P. Kinney III > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. > It won't fatten the dog. > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > * > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -- Mind on a Mission From damon at damtek.com Mon Sep 8 13:28:54 2014 From: damon at damtek.com (Damon L. Chesser) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 13:28:54 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> Message-ID: <540DE756.8030700@damtek.com> No, I did not know this. says who? On 09/08/2014 01:04 PM, Evan Banyash wrote: > You guys do know XFCE is basically abandoned at this point, right? If you > want something lightweight you should be using LXQT. > > On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 12:59 PM, James Sumners > wrote: > >> On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 12:45 PM, Derek Atkins wrote: >> >>> Personally I'd rather see GNOME die. >>> >>> Long live XFCE! :) >>> >> And I agree with you. GNOME 2 was the last one I liked, but I had long >> since switched to XFCE. But GNOME is the poster child example for showing >> how far systemd's tentacles reach. >> >> >> -- >> James Sumners >> http://james.roomfullofmirrors.com/ >> >> "All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological >> personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the >> corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a >> condition to which they are quickly addicted." >> >> Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto) >> CH:D 59 >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: < >> http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140908/078abe4a/attachment.html >> _______________________________________________ >> Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -- Damon at damtek.com 404-271-8699 From jim.kinney at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 13:34:47 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 13:34:47 -0400 Subject: [ale] power In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At home, I have a rather beefy APC to support a server, switch and cable modem until the 15KW natural gas generator kicks in. On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 1:25 PM, leam hall wrote: > I'm interested in this from a "need to get better power support" at home. > > On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 1:20 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > > Had a power blink that hit the entire campus, hospital, everything at > > Emory. Operating rooms went dark for about 10 seconds then it all came > > back. > > > > There are at least 2 substations that power Emory. The hospital is > SUPPOSED > > to be power-outage proof (thus MY concerns for the ebola work!). > > > > What power outage gear is being used at home by ALE? At work by ALE > people? > > Apparently the datacenter here stayed up. But the power outage in the > > operating rooms occured while surgery was ongoing including brain surgery > > with a computer-controlled microscope. > > > > Yikes! > > > > -- > > -- > > James P. Kinney III > > > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you > gain > > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own > tail. > > It won't fatten the dog. > > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > > > > *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > > * > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140908/f8fb616a/attachment.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > -- > Mind on a Mission > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 13:36:59 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 13:36:59 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: <540DE756.8030700@damtek.com> References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> <540DE756.8030700@damtek.com> Message-ID: xfce.org front page has last release was April 28, 2012. :-( On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Damon L. Chesser wrote: > No, I did not know this. says who? > > > > > On 09/08/2014 01:04 PM, Evan Banyash wrote: > >> You guys do know XFCE is basically abandoned at this point, right? If you >> want something lightweight you should be using LXQT. >> >> On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 12:59 PM, James Sumners >> wrote: >> >> On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 12:45 PM, Derek Atkins wrote: >>> >>> Personally I'd rather see GNOME die. >>>> >>>> Long live XFCE! :) >>>> >>>> And I agree with you. GNOME 2 was the last one I liked, but I had long >>> since switched to XFCE. But GNOME is the poster child example for showing >>> how far systemd's tentacles reach. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> James Sumners >>> http://james.roomfullofmirrors.com/ >>> >>> "All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological >>> personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to >>> the >>> corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a >>> condition to which they are quickly addicted." >>> >>> Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto) >>> CH:D 59 >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: < >>> http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140908/ >>> 078abe4a/attachment.html >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ale mailing list >>> Ale at ale.org >>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >>> >>> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: > 20140908/2c4b78f8/attachment.html> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> > > -- > Damon at damtek.com > 404-271-8699 > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From leamhall at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 13:40:30 2014 From: leamhall at gmail.com (leam hall) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 13:40:30 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> <540DE756.8030700@damtek.com> Message-ID: Mail list seems to be alive. Not overwhelming though. On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 1:36 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > xfce.org front page has last release was April 28, 2012. > > :-( > > On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Damon L. Chesser wrote: > >> No, I did not know this. says who? >> >> >> >> >> On 09/08/2014 01:04 PM, Evan Banyash wrote: >> >>> You guys do know XFCE is basically abandoned at this point, right? If you >>> want something lightweight you should be using LXQT. >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 12:59 PM, James Sumners >>> wrote: >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 12:45 PM, Derek Atkins wrote: >>>> >>>> Personally I'd rather see GNOME die. >>>>> >>>>> Long live XFCE! :) >>>>> >>>>> And I agree with you. GNOME 2 was the last one I liked, but I had long >>>> since switched to XFCE. But GNOME is the poster child example for showing >>>> how far systemd's tentacles reach. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> James Sumners >>>> http://james.roomfullofmirrors.com/ >>>> >>>> "All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological >>>> personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to >>>> the >>>> corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a >>>> condition to which they are quickly addicted." >>>> >>>> Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto) >>>> CH:D 59 >>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>> URL: < >>>> http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140908/ >>>> 078abe4a/attachment.html >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Ale mailing list >>>> Ale at ale.org >>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >>>> >>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: >> 20140908/2c4b78f8/attachment.html> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ale mailing list >>> Ale at ale.org >>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >>> >> >> -- >> Damon at damtek.com >> 404-271-8699 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> > > > > -- > -- > James P. Kinney III > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. > It won't fatten the dog. > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > * > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -- Mind on a Mission From derek at ihtfp.com Mon Sep 8 13:41:23 2014 From: derek at ihtfp.com (Derek Atkins) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 13:41:23 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: <540DE756.8030700@damtek.com> References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> <540DE756.8030700@damtek.com> Message-ID: <4c60cf2edb2f1ac40ef25553affda89d.squirrel@mail2.ihtfp.org> Evan, On Mon, September 8, 2014 1:28 pm, Damon L. Chesser wrote: > No, I did not know this. says who? > > > > On 09/08/2014 01:04 PM, Evan Banyash wrote: >> You guys do know XFCE is basically abandoned at this point, right? If >> you >> want something lightweight you should be using LXQT. I'm not sure where you've heard this. Looking at git.xfce.org I see changes as of 3 days ago. So it doesn't look like it's been abandoned to me. Or are you complaining about the fact that the last actual release was in 2012? -derek -- Derek Atkins 617-623-3745 derek at ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com Computer and Internet Security Consultant From pbcartwright at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 13:41:31 2014 From: pbcartwright at gmail.com (Paul Cartwright) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 13:41:31 -0400 Subject: [ale] power In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <540DEA4B.4010705@gmail.com> On 09/08/2014 01:20 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > Had a power blink that hit the entire campus, hospital, everything at > Emory. Operating rooms went dark for about 10 seconds then it all came > back. > > There are at least 2 substations that power Emory. The hospital is SUPPOSED > to be power-outage proof (thus MY concerns for the ebola work!). > > What power outage gear is being used at home by ALE? At work by ALE people? > Apparently the datacenter here stayed up. But the power outage in the > operating rooms occured while surgery was ongoing including brain surgery > with a computer-controlled microscope. having worked for AT&Tm I know they have power backup generators, I trained on them.. the turbines are neat! I thought all hospitals had generator backups.. they might be on a 10 second delay, just to MAKE SURE there is an outtage.. at home, I have APC UPSes in front of everything electronic.. in Georgia, you are crazy not to have one. I lost my power once, but still had telephone (DSL) so my laptop kept me connected to work for an hour... I unplugged everything else from the UPS battery, except for the modem, and my laptop had it's own power.. worked in the dark for over an hour while they fixed the power. -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 From pbcartwright at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 13:44:08 2014 From: pbcartwright at gmail.com (Paul Cartwright) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 13:44:08 -0400 Subject: [ale] power In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <540DEAE8.3080807@gmail.com> On 09/08/2014 01:25 PM, leam hall wrote: > I'm interested in this from a "need to get better power support" at home. > > I have multiple UPSes... 1 in front of my TV/stereo/Uverse box, 1 in front of my desktop, 1 for my laptop/laser printer... you can get a bigger one, or several smaller ones.. I just have LOTS of things to plug in, so multiple UPSes are just easier:) -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 From derek at ihtfp.com Mon Sep 8 13:44:16 2014 From: derek at ihtfp.com (Derek Atkins) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 13:44:16 -0400 Subject: [ale] power In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4854595b3a4090977d66db2b15416025.squirrel@mail2.ihtfp.org> I've got a 3kW UPS with a secondary battery pack. It backs up my server rack and network equipment for about 2 hours. Hopefully I'll get a nice NG Generator installed to take over so it wont need to be as powerful. -derek On Mon, September 8, 2014 1:34 pm, Jim Kinney wrote: > At home, I have a rather beefy APC to support a server, switch and cable > modem until the 15KW natural gas generator kicks in. > > On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 1:25 PM, leam hall wrote: > >> I'm interested in this from a "need to get better power support" at >> home. >> >> On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 1:20 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: >> > Had a power blink that hit the entire campus, hospital, everything at >> > Emory. Operating rooms went dark for about 10 seconds then it all came >> > back. >> > >> > There are at least 2 substations that power Emory. The hospital is >> SUPPOSED >> > to be power-outage proof (thus MY concerns for the ebola work!). >> > >> > What power outage gear is being used at home by ALE? At work by ALE >> people? >> > Apparently the datacenter here stayed up. But the power outage in the >> > operating rooms occured while surgery was ongoing including brain >> surgery >> > with a computer-controlled microscope. >> > >> > Yikes! >> > >> > -- >> > -- >> > James P. Kinney III >> > >> > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you >> gain >> > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own >> tail. >> > It won't fatten the dog. >> > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain >> > >> > >> > *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ >> > * >> > -------------- next part -------------- >> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> > URL: < >> http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140908/f8fb616a/attachment.html >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Ale mailing list >> > Ale at ale.org >> > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> >> >> >> -- >> Mind on a Mission >> _______________________________________________ >> Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> > > > > -- > -- > James P. Kinney III > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. > It won't fatten the dog. > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > * > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- Derek Atkins 617-623-3745 derek at ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com Computer and Internet Security Consultant From damon at damtek.com Mon Sep 8 13:46:40 2014 From: damon at damtek.com (Damon L. Chesser) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 13:46:40 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: <4c60cf2edb2f1ac40ef25553affda89d.squirrel@mail2.ihtfp.org> References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> <540DE756.8030700@damtek.com> <4c60cf2edb2f1ac40ef25553affda89d.squirrel@mail2.ihtfp.org> Message-ID: <540DEB80.60805@damtek.com> Shall I get a rope? who has the tar? On 09/08/2014 01:41 PM, Derek Atkins wrote: > Evan, > > On Mon, September 8, 2014 1:28 pm, Damon L. Chesser wrote: >> No, I did not know this. says who? >> >> >> >> On 09/08/2014 01:04 PM, Evan Banyash wrote: >>> You guys do know XFCE is basically abandoned at this point, right? If >>> you >>> want something lightweight you should be using LXQT. > I'm not sure where you've heard this. > Looking at git.xfce.org I see changes as of 3 days ago. > So it doesn't look like it's been abandoned to me. > > Or are you complaining about the fact that the last actual release was in > 2012? > > -derek > -- Damon at damtek.com 404-271-8699 From mhw at WittsEnd.com Mon Sep 8 13:48:30 2014 From: mhw at WittsEnd.com (Michael H. Warfield) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 13:48:30 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> Message-ID: <1410198510.5611.322.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> On Mon, 2014-09-08 at 12:45 -0400, Derek Atkins wrote: > James Sumners writes: > > > I would. As I said in my original reply in this thread -- you either adopt > > systemd to run the newest versions of GNOME or you don't get GNOME. That's > > why this BSD project exists, to add support for a system they do not want > > just so they can continue to use a desktop manager. It is a completely > > ludicrous situation that a specific system I it manager is required to use > > a desktop environment. > Personally I'd rather see GNOME die. +1 The wheels fell off the GNOME train some time ago, IMNSHO. I had a direct comparison of running Audacity under GNOME 3 on Fedora 18 as opposed to running it under XFCE on the same machine (old 32 bit Dell but still a nice performer for what we use it for). This was doing live stereo audio recordings. Same X, same kernel, same everything else. Just logged in with an XFCE session and compared the graphics performance of the Audacity GUI on that vs GNOME 3 (on which it had been terrible). The comparison was appalling. The GNOME 3 performance was so abysmal it was border line unusable. XFCE was crisp and clean and the wayform displays kept up to the audio stream nicely. I've got several people on an audio tech team that have to use that machine for doing recordings and editings. They're not (all) Linux savants (one of our trainees is) and GNOME was unusable for them and frustrating for me. GNOME lost their way with GNOME 3. > Long live XFCE! :) +1 Only problem I've had with XFCE is in getting at some of the system settings (things like sound settings). > -derek Regards, Mike -- Michael H. Warfield (AI4NB) | (770) 978-7061 | mhw at WittsEnd.com /\/\|=mhw=|\/\/ | (678) 463-0932 | http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/ NIC whois: MHW9 | An optimist believes we live in the best of all PGP Key: 0x674627FF | possible worlds. A pessimist is sure of it! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 465 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mhw at WittsEnd.com Mon Sep 8 13:49:42 2014 From: mhw at WittsEnd.com (Michael H. Warfield) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 13:49:42 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> Message-ID: <1410198582.5611.323.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> On Mon, 2014-09-08 at 13:04 -0400, Evan Banyash wrote: > You guys do know XFCE is basically abandoned at this point, right? If you > want something lightweight you should be using LXQT. Hmmm... That might be worth checking out. Of course, I'm still using Enlightement 16 for my WM. :-P Regards, Mike > On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 12:59 PM, James Sumners > wrote: > > > On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 12:45 PM, Derek Atkins wrote: > > > > > Personally I'd rather see GNOME die. > > > > > > Long live XFCE! :) > > > > > > > And I agree with you. GNOME 2 was the last one I liked, but I had long > > since switched to XFCE. But GNOME is the poster child example for showing > > how far systemd's tentacles reach. > > > > > > -- > > James Sumners > > http://james.roomfullofmirrors.com/ > > > > "All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological > > personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the > > corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a > > condition to which they are quickly addicted." > > > > Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto) > > CH:D 59 > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140908/078abe4a/attachment.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -- Michael H. Warfield (AI4NB) | (770) 978-7061 | mhw at WittsEnd.com /\/\|=mhw=|\/\/ | (678) 463-0932 | http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/ NIC whois: MHW9 | An optimist believes we live in the best of all PGP Key: 0x674627FF | possible worlds. A pessimist is sure of it! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 465 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From damon at damtek.com Mon Sep 8 13:55:54 2014 From: damon at damtek.com (Damon L. Chesser) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 13:55:54 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: <1410198510.5611.322.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> <1410198510.5611.322.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> Message-ID: <540DEDAA.3010809@damtek.com> On 09/08/2014 01:48 PM, Michael H. Warfield wrote: SNIP > +1 > > Only problem I've had with XFCE is in getting at some of the system > settings (things like sound settings). > >> -derek > Regards, > Mike Yeah, I agree. But is still the most usable DE/WM for my money. I would pay double the amount they charge for it. I will look at lxqt. -- Damon at damtek.com 404-271-8699 From mhw at WittsEnd.com Mon Sep 8 13:59:53 2014 From: mhw at WittsEnd.com (Michael H. Warfield) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 13:59:53 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: <1410198510.5611.322.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> <1410198510.5611.322.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> Message-ID: <1410199193.5611.326.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> On Mon, 2014-09-08 at 13:48 -0400, Michael H. Warfield wrote: > On Mon, 2014-09-08 at 12:45 -0400, Derek Atkins wrote: > > James Sumners writes: > > > > > I would. As I said in my original reply in this thread -- you either adopt > > > systemd to run the newest versions of GNOME or you don't get GNOME. That's > > > why this BSD project exists, to add support for a system they do not want > > > just so they can continue to use a desktop manager. It is a completely > > > ludicrous situation that a specific system I it manager is required to use > > > a desktop environment. > > Personally I'd rather see GNOME die. > +1 > The wheels fell off the GNOME train some time ago, IMNSHO. > I had a direct comparison of running Audacity under GNOME 3 on Fedora 18 > as opposed to running it under XFCE on the same machine (old 32 bit Dell > but still a nice performer for what we use it for). > This was doing live stereo audio recordings. Same X, same kernel, same > everything else. Just logged in with an XFCE session and compared the > graphics performance of the Audacity GUI on that vs GNOME 3 (on which it > had been terrible). The comparison was appalling. The GNOME 3 > performance was so abysmal it was border line unusable. XFCE was crisp > and clean and the wayform displays kept up to the audio stream nicely. > I've got several people on an audio tech team that have to use that > machine for doing recordings and editings. They're not (all) Linux > savants (one of our trainees is) and GNOME was unusable for them and > frustrating for me. Oh, and I would LOVE to have someone explain to me WHY a desktop manager would have such a profound performance impact on an application and display that I would have thought would be spending most of it's time talking with X through the widget sets. The mystery to me is why using GNOME as the desktop manager should even matter to an application like that, but it was and it was reproducible. Regards, Mike > GNOME lost their way with GNOME 3. > > > Long live XFCE! :) > > +1 > > Only problem I've had with XFCE is in getting at some of the system > settings (things like sound settings). > > > -derek > > Regards, > Mike -- Michael H. Warfield (AI4NB) | (770) 978-7061 | mhw at WittsEnd.com /\/\|=mhw=|\/\/ | (678) 463-0932 | http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/ NIC whois: MHW9 | An optimist believes we live in the best of all PGP Key: 0x674627FF | possible worlds. A pessimist is sure of it! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 465 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From allen at ua.edu Mon Sep 8 13:59:57 2014 From: allen at ua.edu (Beddingfield, Allen) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 17:59:57 +0000 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: <540DEB80.60805@damtek.com> References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> <540DE756.8030700@damtek.com> <4c60cf2edb2f1ac40ef25553affda89d.squirrel@mail2.ihtfp.org>, <540DEB80.60805@damtek.com> Message-ID: Be sure it is a sufficiently scratchy rope :D -- Allen Beddingfield Systems Engineer The University of Alabama ________________________________________ From: ale-bounces at ale.org [ale-bounces at ale.org] on behalf of Damon L. Chesser [damon at damtek.com] Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 12:46 PM To: ale at ale.org Subject: Re: [ale] systemd or not Shall I get a rope? who has the tar? From allen at ua.edu Mon Sep 8 14:05:19 2014 From: allen at ua.edu (Beddingfield, Allen) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 18:05:19 +0000 Subject: [ale] OT - SED drive compatibility In-Reply-To: References: <53FB7413.1050507@algoloma.com> , Message-ID: My biggest issue with this approach is that each system requires manual intervention to come up. We already have our Oracle drones insisting that they bring Oracle up manually....sigh. Luckily, our HIPAA compliant systems are all Windows-based, and a problem for another team :D We do have some PCI systems, and that is an unbelievable list of requirements, down to not locating PCI VMs on the same virtualization host as non-PCI VMs. Allen B. -- Allen Beddingfield Systems Engineer The University of Alabama ________________________________________ From: ale-bounces at ale.org [ale-bounces at ale.org] on behalf of Jim Kinney [jim.kinney at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 12:12 PM To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [ale] OT - SED drive compatibility Added layer of physical security for HIPAA compliance led to the wholesale adoption. Yes, remote access and data theft would occur to a decrypted filesystem once it's running. But much of my work often requires encrypted data at rest for many system and the performance hit is essentially trivial compared to the rest of the system, so it's easy to to keep that as a default. The HPC systems have absolutely all security disabled and are hidden behind firewalls on private LAN, etc. It also indicates a level of unsure trust of the physical access to the systems. Never had an issue but don't want to be on the wrong end if something does happen. From pbcartwright at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 14:07:44 2014 From: pbcartwright at gmail.com (Paul Cartwright) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 14:07:44 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> Message-ID: <540DF070.4060309@gmail.com> On 09/08/2014 01:04 PM, Evan Banyash wrote: > You guys do know XFCE is basically abandoned at this point, right? If you > want something lightweight you should be using LXQT. downloaded the lxqt-common.. rpm -i lxqt*.rpm warning: lxqt-common-0.7.0-7.1.noarch.rpm: Header V3 DSA/SHA1 Signature, key ID 5fd803b8: NOKEY /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.IVzk2E: line 1: fg: no job control warning: %post(lxqt-common-0.7.0-7.1.noarch) scriptlet failed, exit status 1 not sure what to do.. nothing in messages.. -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 From jim.kinney at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 14:23:05 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 14:23:05 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT - SED drive compatibility In-Reply-To: References: <53FB7413.1050507@algoloma.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Beddingfield, Allen wrote: > My biggest issue with this approach is that each system requires manual > intervention to come up. We already have our Oracle drones insisting that > they bring Oracle up manually....sigh. > Luckily, our HIPAA compliant systems are all Windows-based, and a problem > for another team :D > We do have some PCI systems, and that is an unbelievable list of > requirements, down to not locating PCI VMs on the same virtualization host > as non-PCI VMs. > I would like to see the logic behind that last one! > Allen B. > -- > Allen Beddingfield > Systems Engineer > The University of Alabama > > ________________________________________ > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [ale-bounces at ale.org] on behalf of Jim Kinney [ > jim.kinney at gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 12:12 PM > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts > Subject: Re: [ale] OT - SED drive compatibility > > Added layer of physical security for HIPAA compliance led to the wholesale > adoption. Yes, remote access and data theft would occur to a decrypted > filesystem once it's running. But much of my work often requires encrypted > data at rest for many system and the performance hit is essentially trivial > compared to the rest of the system, so it's easy to to keep that as a > default. The HPC systems have absolutely all security disabled and are > hidden behind firewalls on private LAN, etc. > > It also indicates a level of unsure trust of the physical access to the > systems. Never had an issue but don't want to be on the wrong end if > something does happen. > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From allen at ua.edu Mon Sep 8 14:33:46 2014 From: allen at ua.edu (Beddingfield, Allen) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 18:33:46 +0000 Subject: [ale] OT - SED drive compatibility In-Reply-To: References: <53FB7413.1050507@algoloma.com> , Message-ID: The logic behind not locating them on the same virtualization host, or about our Oracle drones not wanting Oracle to start automatically? -- Allen Beddingfield Systems Engineer The University of Alabama ________________________________________ From: ale-bounces at ale.org [ale-bounces at ale.org] on behalf of Jim Kinney [jim.kinney at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 1:23 PM To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [ale] OT - SED drive compatibility On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Beddingfield, Allen wrote: > My biggest issue with this approach is that each system requires manual > intervention to come up. We already have our Oracle drones insisting that > they bring Oracle up manually....sigh. > Luckily, our HIPAA compliant systems are all Windows-based, and a problem > for another team :D > We do have some PCI systems, and that is an unbelievable list of > requirements, down to not locating PCI VMs on the same virtualization host > as non-PCI VMs. > I would like to see the logic behind that last one! > Allen B. > -- > Allen Beddingfield > Systems Engineer > The University of Alabama > > ________________________________________ > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [ale-bounces at ale.org] on behalf of Jim Kinney [ > jim.kinney at gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 12:12 PM > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts > Subject: Re: [ale] OT - SED drive compatibility > > Added layer of physical security for HIPAA compliance led to the wholesale > adoption. Yes, remote access and data theft would occur to a decrypted > filesystem once it's running. But much of my work often requires encrypted > data at rest for many system and the performance hit is essentially trivial > compared to the rest of the system, so it's easy to to keep that as a > default. The HPC systems have absolutely all security disabled and are > hidden behind firewalls on private LAN, etc. > > It also indicates a level of unsure trust of the physical access to the > systems. Never had an issue but don't want to be on the wrong end if > something does happen. > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo From jim.kinney at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 14:41:28 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 14:41:28 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: <1410199193.5611.326.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> <1410198510.5611.322.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> <1410199193.5611.326.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 1:59 PM, Michael H. Warfield wrote: > On Mon, 2014-09-08 at 13:48 -0400, Michael H. Warfield wrote: > > On Mon, 2014-09-08 at 12:45 -0400, Derek Atkins wrote: > > > James Sumners writes: > > > > > > > I would. As I said in my original reply in this thread -- you either > adopt > > > > systemd to run the newest versions of GNOME or you don't get GNOME. > That's > > > > why this BSD project exists, to add support for a system they do not > want > > > > just so they can continue to use a desktop manager. It is a > completely > > > > ludicrous situation that a specific system I it manager is required > to use > > > > a desktop environment. > > > > Personally I'd rather see GNOME die. > > > +1 > > > The wheels fell off the GNOME train some time ago, IMNSHO. > > > I had a direct comparison of running Audacity under GNOME 3 on Fedora 18 > > as opposed to running it under XFCE on the same machine (old 32 bit Dell > > but still a nice performer for what we use it for). > > > This was doing live stereo audio recordings. Same X, same kernel, same > > everything else. Just logged in with an XFCE session and compared the > > graphics performance of the Audacity GUI on that vs GNOME 3 (on which it > > had been terrible). The comparison was appalling. The GNOME 3 > > performance was so abysmal it was border line unusable. XFCE was crisp > > and clean and the wayform displays kept up to the audio stream nicely. > > > I've got several people on an audio tech team that have to use that > > machine for doing recordings and editings. They're not (all) Linux > > savants (one of our trainees is) and GNOME was unusable for them and > > frustrating for me. > > Oh, and I would LOVE to have someone explain to me WHY a desktop manager > would have such a profound performance impact on an application and > display that I would have thought would be spending most of it's time > talking with X through the widget sets. The mystery to me is why using > GNOME as the desktop manager should even matter to an application like > that, but it was and it was reproducible. > WHY? Bad design. HOW? The newly redesigned bonobo-replacement interconnect tool is a virtual reed-switched power relay. It chunks a (tiny) wad of data around then changes to the next desktop thing to do more. It can't thread well or else it will connect to two ends of the needed pipe and setup both as sender or receivers and then it goes into a spasm of tear-down/rebuild to keep the data flowing. Thus the sound on certain gnome configurations is beyond abysmal. And the rest of the performance follows it into the toilet. Sad. Looks pretty but runs like a snail. Certain hardware combos are particularly bad. > > Regards, > Mike > > > GNOME lost their way with GNOME 3. > > > > > Long live XFCE! :) > > > > +1 > > > > Only problem I've had with XFCE is in getting at some of the system > > settings (things like sound settings). > > > > > -derek > > > > Regards, > > Mike > > -- > Michael H. Warfield (AI4NB) | (770) 978-7061 | mhw at WittsEnd.com > /\/\|=mhw=|\/\/ | (678) 463-0932 | > http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/ > NIC whois: MHW9 | An optimist believes we live in the best of > all > PGP Key: 0x674627FF | possible worlds. A pessimist is sure of it! > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: signature.asc > Type: application/pgp-signature > Size: 465 bytes > Desc: This is a digitally signed message part > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140908/d1d0ec4d/attachment.sig > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pizza at shaftnet.org Mon Sep 8 14:42:46 2014 From: pizza at shaftnet.org (Solomon Peachy) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 14:42:46 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: <1410199193.5611.326.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> References: <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> <1410198510.5611.322.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> <1410199193.5611.326.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> Message-ID: <20140908184246.GA9600@shaftnet.org> On Mon, Sep 08, 2014 at 01:59:53PM -0400, Michael H. Warfield wrote: > Oh, and I would LOVE to have someone explain to me WHY a desktop manager > would have such a profound performance impact on an application and > display that I would have thought would be spending most of it's time > talking with X through the widget sets. The mystery to me is why using > GNOME as the desktop manager should even matter to an application like > that, but it was and it was reproducible. Basically, GNOME3 is built on top of pure OpenGL, and if your system has crummy GL capabilities, it ends up resorting to a software rendering fallback that is quite slow (and CPU intensive) One could make an argument that they could have provided a non-GL fallback path, but that's another matter entirely. - Solomon -- Solomon Peachy pizza at shaftnet dot org Delray Beach, FL ^^ (email/xmpp) ^^ Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 155 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lnxgnome at hopnet.net Mon Sep 8 14:43:39 2014 From: lnxgnome at hopnet.net (LnxGnome) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 14:43:39 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT - SED drive compatibility In-Reply-To: References: <53FB7413.1050507@algoloma.com> Message-ID: <540DF8DB.2020501@hopnet.net> On 9/8/14 2:23 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Beddingfield, Allen wrote: > >> My biggest issue with this approach is that each system requires manual >> intervention to come up. We already have our Oracle drones insisting that >> they bring Oracle up manually....sigh. >> Luckily, our HIPAA compliant systems are all Windows-based, and a problem >> for another team :D >> We do have some PCI systems, and that is an unbelievable list of >> requirements, down to not locating PCI VMs on the same virtualization host >> as non-PCI VMs. >> > I would like to see the logic behind that last one! > > Assuming "that one" is not locating PCI VMs on the same vHost as non-PCI VMs... It's something along the line that a non-PCI box could be compromised easier than a PCI complaint box, which could in turn lead the the virtualization environment being compromised, which could lead to invasive access to the PCI compliant box. --LnxGnome (who also has to deal with PCI) From jim.kinney at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 14:44:17 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 14:44:17 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT - SED drive compatibility In-Reply-To: References: <53FB7413.1050507@algoloma.com> Message-ID: I know about Oracle zealots, er, priests, um, drones. Oracle wants to run the entire box and the priests are gathering the faithful to ward off the unwashed masses with a burning at the stake. The division of virtualization hosts is new to me. On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Beddingfield, Allen wrote: > The logic behind not locating them on the same virtualization host, or > about our Oracle drones not wanting Oracle to start automatically? > -- > Allen Beddingfield > Systems Engineer > The University of Alabama > > ________________________________________ > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [ale-bounces at ale.org] on behalf of Jim Kinney [ > jim.kinney at gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 1:23 PM > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts > Subject: Re: [ale] OT - SED drive compatibility > > On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Beddingfield, Allen wrote: > > > My biggest issue with this approach is that each system requires manual > > intervention to come up. We already have our Oracle drones insisting > that > > they bring Oracle up manually....sigh. > > Luckily, our HIPAA compliant systems are all Windows-based, and a problem > > for another team :D > > We do have some PCI systems, and that is an unbelievable list of > > requirements, down to not locating PCI VMs on the same virtualization > host > > as non-PCI VMs. > > > > I would like to see the logic behind that last one! > > > > Allen B. > > -- > > Allen Beddingfield > > Systems Engineer > > The University of Alabama > > > > ________________________________________ > > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [ale-bounces at ale.org] on behalf of Jim Kinney > [ > > jim.kinney at gmail.com] > > Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 12:12 PM > > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts > > Subject: Re: [ale] OT - SED drive compatibility > > > > Added layer of physical security for HIPAA compliance led to the > wholesale > > adoption. Yes, remote access and data theft would occur to a decrypted > > filesystem once it's running. But much of my work often requires > encrypted > > data at rest for many system and the performance hit is essentially > trivial > > compared to the rest of the system, so it's easy to to keep that as a > > default. The HPC systems have absolutely all security disabled and are > > hidden behind firewalls on private LAN, etc. > > > > It also indicates a level of unsure trust of the physical access to the > > systems. Never had an issue but don't want to be on the wrong end if > > something does happen. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > > > -- > -- > James P. Kinney III > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. > It won't fatten the dog. > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > * > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140908/7132da05/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 14:48:36 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 14:48:36 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: <20140908184246.GA9600@shaftnet.org> References: <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> <1410198510.5611.322.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> <1410199193.5611.326.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> <20140908184246.GA9600@shaftnet.org> Message-ID: That explains why the NVidia macbook is just happy as a clam with gnome3 and the Acer POS-express with crappy video chip is a snail. On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 2:42 PM, Solomon Peachy wrote: > On Mon, Sep 08, 2014 at 01:59:53PM -0400, Michael H. Warfield wrote: > > Oh, and I would LOVE to have someone explain to me WHY a desktop manager > > would have such a profound performance impact on an application and > > display that I would have thought would be spending most of it's time > > talking with X through the widget sets. The mystery to me is why using > > GNOME as the desktop manager should even matter to an application like > > that, but it was and it was reproducible. > > Basically, GNOME3 is built on top of pure OpenGL, and if your system has > crummy GL capabilities, it ends up resorting to a software rendering > fallback that is quite slow (and CPU intensive) > > One could make an argument that they could have provided a non-GL > fallback path, but that's another matter entirely. > > - Solomon > -- > Solomon Peachy pizza at shaftnet dot org > Delray Beach, FL ^^ (email/xmpp) ^^ > Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur. > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: not available > Type: application/pgp-signature > Size: 155 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140908/5d885ced/attachment.sig > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From allen at ua.edu Mon Sep 8 14:49:31 2014 From: allen at ua.edu (Beddingfield, Allen) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 18:49:31 +0000 Subject: [ale] OT - SED drive compatibility In-Reply-To: References: <53FB7413.1050507@algoloma.com> , Message-ID: Oh, there is a theoretical possibility that a non-PCI VM could be compromised and used to read something from the CPU cache. VMware confirms that this is possible (saw a nice little demo on it), but that the chances of actually getting enough data from one VM on the host is almost non-existent. Allen B. -- Allen Beddingfield Systems Engineer The University of Alabama ________________________________________ From: ale-bounces at ale.org [ale-bounces at ale.org] on behalf of Jim Kinney [jim.kinney at gmail.com] Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 1:44 PM To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [ale] OT - SED drive compatibility I know about Oracle zealots, er, priests, um, drones. Oracle wants to run the entire box and the priests are gathering the faithful to ward off the unwashed masses with a burning at the stake. The division of virtualization hosts is new to me. On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Beddingfield, Allen wrote: > The logic behind not locating them on the same virtualization host, or > about our Oracle drones not wanting Oracle to start automatically? > -- > Allen Beddingfield > Systems Engineer > The University of Alabama > > ________________________________________ > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [ale-bounces at ale.org] on behalf of Jim Kinney [ > jim.kinney at gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 1:23 PM > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts > Subject: Re: [ale] OT - SED drive compatibility > > On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Beddingfield, Allen wrote: > > > My biggest issue with this approach is that each system requires manual > > intervention to come up. We already have our Oracle drones insisting > that > > they bring Oracle up manually....sigh. > > Luckily, our HIPAA compliant systems are all Windows-based, and a problem > > for another team :D > > We do have some PCI systems, and that is an unbelievable list of > > requirements, down to not locating PCI VMs on the same virtualization > host > > as non-PCI VMs. > > > > I would like to see the logic behind that last one! > > > > Allen B. > > -- > > Allen Beddingfield > > Systems Engineer > > The University of Alabama > > > > ________________________________________ > > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [ale-bounces at ale.org] on behalf of Jim Kinney > [ > > jim.kinney at gmail.com] > > Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 12:12 PM > > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts > > Subject: Re: [ale] OT - SED drive compatibility > > > > Added layer of physical security for HIPAA compliance led to the > wholesale > > adoption. Yes, remote access and data theft would occur to a decrypted > > filesystem once it's running. But much of my work often requires > encrypted > > data at rest for many system and the performance hit is essentially > trivial > > compared to the rest of the system, so it's easy to to keep that as a > > default. The HPC systems have absolutely all security disabled and are > > hidden behind firewalls on private LAN, etc. > > > > It also indicates a level of unsure trust of the physical access to the > > systems. Never had an issue but don't want to be on the wrong end if > > something does happen. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > > > -- > -- > James P. Kinney III > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. > It won't fatten the dog. > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > * > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140908/7132da05/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo From james.sumners at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 14:54:16 2014 From: james.sumners at gmail.com (James Sumners) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 14:54:16 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> <1410198510.5611.322.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> <1410199193.5611.326.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 2:41 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > WHY? Bad design. HOW? The newly redesigned bonobo-replacement interconnect > tool is a virtual reed-switched power relay. It chunks a (tiny) wad of data > around then changes to the next desktop thing to do more. It can't thread > well or else it will connect to two ends of the needed pipe and setup both > as sender or receivers and then it goes into a spasm of tear-down/rebuild > to keep the data flowing. Thus the sound on certain gnome configurations is > beyond abysmal. And the rest of the performance follows it into the toilet. > Sad. Looks pretty but runs like a snail. Certain hardware combos are > particularly bad. > The exact problem the Enlightenment group solved before the would even deign to consider an official release -- http://docs.enlightenment.org/auto/evas/evas_main.html -- James Sumners http://james.roomfullofmirrors.com/ "All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted." Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto) CH:D 59 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 14:59:00 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 14:59:00 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> <1410198510.5611.322.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> <1410199193.5611.326.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> Message-ID: E != Gnome :-( E has a reputation for long devel cycles and really good stuff on release. Gnome cranks out stuff ans usually hits date targets and often delivers crap but occasionally hands over a jewel. I need to look at E again. Been a long time. On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 2:54 PM, James Sumners wrote: > On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 2:41 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > > > WHY? Bad design. HOW? The newly redesigned bonobo-replacement > interconnect > > tool is a virtual reed-switched power relay. It chunks a (tiny) wad of > data > > around then changes to the next desktop thing to do more. It can't thread > > well or else it will connect to two ends of the needed pipe and setup > both > > as sender or receivers and then it goes into a spasm of tear-down/rebuild > > to keep the data flowing. Thus the sound on certain gnome configurations > is > > beyond abysmal. And the rest of the performance follows it into the > toilet. > > Sad. Looks pretty but runs like a snail. Certain hardware combos are > > particularly bad. > > > > The exact problem the Enlightenment group solved before the would even > deign to consider an official release -- > http://docs.enlightenment.org/auto/evas/evas_main.html > > > -- > James Sumners > http://james.roomfullofmirrors.com/ > > "All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological > personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the > corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a > condition to which they are quickly addicted." > > Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto) > CH:D 59 > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140908/0360c6a4/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.sumners at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 15:04:03 2014 From: james.sumners at gmail.com (James Sumners) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 15:04:03 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> <1410198510.5611.322.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> <1410199193.5611.326.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 2:59 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > E != Gnome :-( > > E has a reputation for long devel cycles and really good stuff on release. > Gnome cranks out stuff ans usually hits date targets and often delivers > crap but occasionally hands over a jewel. I need to look at E again. Been a > long time. > Yep. And the only reason I switched to XFCE instead of (back to) E was down to everything of any use was built on GTK+. -- James Sumners http://james.roomfullofmirrors.com/ "All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted." Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto) CH:D 59 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mhw at WittsEnd.com Mon Sep 8 15:03:51 2014 From: mhw at WittsEnd.com (Michael H. Warfield) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 15:03:51 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> <540DE756.8030700@damtek.com> Message-ID: <1410203031.5611.331.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> On Mon, 2014-09-08 at 13:36 -0400, Jim Kinney wrote: > xfce.org front page has last release was April 28, 2012. Once could EASILY argue that, if GNOME had stopped at their releases before that time frame, they might be BETTER off than they are now. GNOME 3 came out in 2011. > :-( Regards, Mike > On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 1:28 PM, Damon L. Chesser wrote: > > > No, I did not know this. says who? > > > > > > > > > > On 09/08/2014 01:04 PM, Evan Banyash wrote: > > > >> You guys do know XFCE is basically abandoned at this point, right? If you > >> want something lightweight you should be using LXQT. > >> > >> On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 12:59 PM, James Sumners > >> wrote: > >> > >> On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 12:45 PM, Derek Atkins wrote: > >>> > >>> Personally I'd rather see GNOME die. > >>>> > >>>> Long live XFCE! :) > >>>> > >>>> And I agree with you. GNOME 2 was the last one I liked, but I had long > >>> since switched to XFCE. But GNOME is the poster child example for showing > >>> how far systemd's tentacles reach. > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> James Sumners > >>> http://james.roomfullofmirrors.com/ > >>> > >>> "All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological > >>> personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to > >>> the > >>> corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a > >>> condition to which they are quickly addicted." > >>> > >>> Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto) > >>> CH:D 59 > >>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>> URL: < > >>> http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140908/ > >>> 078abe4a/attachment.html > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Ale mailing list > >>> Ale at ale.org > >>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > >>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > >>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > >>> > >>> -------------- next part -------------- > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >> URL: >> 20140908/2c4b78f8/attachment.html> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Ale mailing list > >> Ale at ale.org > >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > >> > > > > -- > > Damon at damtek.com > > 404-271-8699 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > > > -- -- Michael H. Warfield (AI4NB) | (770) 978-7061 | mhw at WittsEnd.com /\/\|=mhw=|\/\/ | (678) 463-0932 | http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/ NIC whois: MHW9 | An optimist believes we live in the best of all PGP Key: 0x674627FF | possible worlds. A pessimist is sure of it! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 465 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From preston.lists at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 15:28:03 2014 From: preston.lists at gmail.com (Preston) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 14:28:03 -0500 Subject: [ale] power In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <540E0343.4080701@gmail.com> I have a propane generator that kicks on after a minute with UPS on my computers/electronics (home theater). The generator is only to specific plugs in my house. One of which can be used for a small window A/C unit (it's pretty muggy when power's out after a hurricane). Preston On 9/8/2014 12:20 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > Had a power blink that hit the entire campus, hospital, everything at > Emory. Operating rooms went dark for about 10 seconds then it all came > back. > > There are at least 2 substations that power Emory. The hospital is SUPPOSED > to be power-outage proof (thus MY concerns for the ebola work!). > > What power outage gear is being used at home by ALE? At work by ALE people? > Apparently the datacenter here stayed up. But the power outage in the > operating rooms occured while surgery was ongoing including brain surgery > with a computer-controlled microscope. > > Yikes! > -- Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don?t matter and those who matter don?t mind. -Dr. Seuss From pizza at shaftnet.org Mon Sep 8 15:34:09 2014 From: pizza at shaftnet.org (Solomon Peachy) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 15:34:09 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> Message-ID: <20140908193409.GB9600@shaftnet.org> On Mon, Sep 08, 2014 at 12:59:47PM -0400, James Sumners wrote: > And I agree with you. GNOME 2 was the last one I liked, but I had long > since switched to XFCE. But GNOME is the poster child example for showing > how far systemd's tentacles reach. ...as opposed to GNOME needing to continue maintaining per-distribution (and per-distribution-release!) code to handle the complexity that systemd completely abstracts away? GNOME upstream supported Fedora and Debian's quirks, and Arch and OpenSUSE sorta barely. Going forward, GNOME now supports *everything* that implements the logind api, which, incidentally, includes all of the above (and many more Linux distros, and if I believe news reports, before much longer, OpenBSD too) The systemd suite is basically bundle of shared library code accessible via formalized, versioned DBus APIs. Everyone downstream no longer has to continually reinvent the wheel (usually badly) to gain that functionality. In any other context folks would be lauding this as a big step forward. Sheesh. - Solomon -- Solomon Peachy pizza at shaftnet dot org Delray Beach, FL ^^ (email/xmpp) ^^ Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 155 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mhw at WittsEnd.com Mon Sep 8 15:55:43 2014 From: mhw at WittsEnd.com (Michael H. Warfield) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 15:55:43 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> <1410198510.5611.322.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> <1410199193.5611.326.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> Message-ID: <1410206143.5611.337.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> On Mon, 2014-09-08 at 15:04 -0400, James Sumners wrote: > On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 2:59 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > > > E != Gnome :-( > > > > E has a reputation for long devel cycles and really good stuff on release. > > Gnome cranks out stuff ans usually hits date targets and often delivers > > crap but occasionally hands over a jewel. I need to look at E again. Been a > > long time. > > > Yep. And the only reason I switched to XFCE instead of (back to) E was down > to everything of any use was built on GTK+. Ah! But E is a window manager while XFCE is a desktop/session manager. I run XFCE with E16 as my window manager. They're not at all incompatible and not particularly hard to switch to. Yes, you can run "pure E" as a desktop manager as well, but I do like having the panels ala GNOME < 3 and XFCE, while E gives me all the workspaces I want with as many viewports wide an high as I want while I still run XFCE and it's panels. Regards, Mike -- Michael H. Warfield (AI4NB) | (770) 978-7061 | mhw at WittsEnd.com /\/\|=mhw=|\/\/ | (678) 463-0932 | http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/ NIC whois: MHW9 | An optimist believes we live in the best of all PGP Key: 0x674627FF | possible worlds. A pessimist is sure of it! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 465 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From tfreeman at intel.digichem.net Mon Sep 8 15:58:02 2014 From: tfreeman at intel.digichem.net (Tom Freeman) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 15:58:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [ale] power In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Sep 2014, Jim Kinney wrote: > Had a power blink that hit the entire campus, hospital, everything at > Emory. Operating rooms went dark for about 10 seconds then it all came > back. > > There are at least 2 substations that power Emory. The hospital is SUPPOSED > to be power-outage proof (thus MY concerns for the ebola work!). > > What power outage gear is being used at home by ALE? At work by ALE people? > Apparently the datacenter here stayed up. But the power outage in the > operating rooms occured while surgery was ongoing including brain surgery > with a computer-controlled microscope. Basic el-cheapo (and ageing) UPS's infront of most electronics (the microwave isn't protected, and several clocks are supposed to include their own batteries and don't) Since lightning has taken down the ethernet network three times over the past 18 years, I probably am demonstrating advanced stupid for not getting that surge protected also. Worked at a hospital 40 years ago. Facilities claimed that the backup generators were at the ready - until a lightning strike proved otherwise (that long ago _most_ of the people still knew the manual procedures so there was less headaches, but the elevator cages dropped most of a floor injuring 2 passengers to compensate). Management hoping into high gear, rewired the whole place and reviewed and revamped everything. Announced a test run - and as I recall emergency power came on - but crashed when returning to grid power taking down the _entire_ special circuit for emergency power. That was a fun day to work, with nothing plugged into the correct outlet and extension cords running all over the floors... When I left a few years later for grad school - they were still running monthly emergency power drills. From JLightner at dsservices.com Mon Sep 8 16:01:35 2014 From: JLightner at dsservices.com (Lightner, Jeff) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 20:01:35 +0000 Subject: [ale] power In-Reply-To: <4854595b3a4090977d66db2b15416025.squirrel@mail2.ihtfp.org> References: <4854595b3a4090977d66db2b15416025.squirrel@mail2.ihtfp.org> Message-ID: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EAD178@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> At home I just have a couple of APC UPSes - I plug in to the outlets that are always battery rather than the surge protection ones - that way no blip is sent to my devices. (Of course I only have enough backup power to give time for an ordered shutdown.) At work with use the large Emerson UPS units to power our data center and have a large diesel generator outside. Since all the systems are on the UPS units they don't see any blip on grid power outage. A grid power outage causes the generator to kick on automatically so that we're only on backup UPS power only during the time it takes for that to fire up. The building we're has been purchased by someone else and I gather from what I've heard that they've put in full generator to power the entire building. Presumably if one wanted to keep things like operating rooms running the beefier UPS units could be put in front of those locations as well. Athena(r), Created for the Cause(tm) Making a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Cancer __________________________________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged or confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you From mhw at WittsEnd.com Mon Sep 8 16:16:22 2014 From: mhw at WittsEnd.com (Michael H. Warfield) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 16:16:22 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: <20140908184246.GA9600@shaftnet.org> References: <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> <1410198510.5611.322.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> <1410199193.5611.326.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> <20140908184246.GA9600@shaftnet.org> Message-ID: <1410207382.5611.341.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> On Mon, 2014-09-08 at 14:42 -0400, Solomon Peachy wrote: > On Mon, Sep 08, 2014 at 01:59:53PM -0400, Michael H. Warfield wrote: > > Oh, and I would LOVE to have someone explain to me WHY a desktop manager > > would have such a profound performance impact on an application and > > display that I would have thought would be spending most of it's time > > talking with X through the widget sets. The mystery to me is why using > > GNOME as the desktop manager should even matter to an application like > > that, but it was and it was reproducible. > Basically, GNOME3 is built on top of pure OpenGL, and if your system has > crummy GL capabilities, it ends up resorting to a software rendering > fallback that is quite slow (and CPU intensive) Then why did XFCE on the same hardware scream? Are you saying that OpenGL is the fault for the suckiness? This was the same machine. Same audio stream and sources, same screen, just logged in with GNOME 3 session in one case and XFCE session in the other. Rocked with XFCE and sucked with GNOME 3. > One could make an argument that they could have provided a non-GL > fallback path, but that's another matter entirely. I don't know what XFCE is using but it's beating the pants off GNOME 3 in that environment. > - Solomon Regards, Mike -- Michael H. Warfield (AI4NB) | (770) 978-7061 | mhw at WittsEnd.com /\/\|=mhw=|\/\/ | (678) 463-0932 | http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/ NIC whois: MHW9 | An optimist believes we live in the best of all PGP Key: 0x674627FF | possible worlds. A pessimist is sure of it! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 465 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 16:41:38 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 16:41:38 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: <1410207382.5611.341.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> References: <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> <1410198510.5611.322.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> <1410199193.5611.326.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> <20140908184246.GA9600@shaftnet.org> <1410207382.5611.341.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> Message-ID: XFCE doesn't use anything from the OpenGL acceleration realm. So it can fly compared to the opengl emulation software that gnome uses if the hardware doesn't support real OpenGL hardware acceleration. And, yes, OpenGL_was_ a Silicon Graphics thing that was sold to Microsoft. On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 4:16 PM, Michael H. Warfield wrote: > On Mon, 2014-09-08 at 14:42 -0400, Solomon Peachy wrote: > > On Mon, Sep 08, 2014 at 01:59:53PM -0400, Michael H. Warfield wrote: > > > Oh, and I would LOVE to have someone explain to me WHY a desktop > manager > > > would have such a profound performance impact on an application and > > > display that I would have thought would be spending most of it's time > > > talking with X through the widget sets. The mystery to me is why using > > > GNOME as the desktop manager should even matter to an application like > > > that, but it was and it was reproducible. > > > Basically, GNOME3 is built on top of pure OpenGL, and if your system has > > crummy GL capabilities, it ends up resorting to a software rendering > > fallback that is quite slow (and CPU intensive) > > Then why did XFCE on the same hardware scream? Are you saying that > OpenGL is the fault for the suckiness? This was the same machine. Same > audio stream and sources, same screen, just logged in with GNOME 3 > session in one case and XFCE session in the other. Rocked with XFCE and > sucked with GNOME 3. > > > One could make an argument that they could have provided a non-GL > > fallback path, but that's another matter entirely. > > I don't know what XFCE is using but it's beating the pants off GNOME 3 > in that environment. > > > - Solomon > > Regards, > Mike > -- > Michael H. Warfield (AI4NB) | (770) 978-7061 | mhw at WittsEnd.com > /\/\|=mhw=|\/\/ | (678) 463-0932 | > http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/ > NIC whois: MHW9 | An optimist believes we live in the best of > all > PGP Key: 0x674627FF | possible worlds. A pessimist is sure of it! > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: signature.asc > Type: application/pgp-signature > Size: 465 bytes > Desc: This is a digitally signed message part > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140908/aeeadb92/attachment.sig > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pizza at shaftnet.org Mon Sep 8 16:50:32 2014 From: pizza at shaftnet.org (Solomon Peachy) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 16:50:32 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: <1410207382.5611.341.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> References: <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> <1410198510.5611.322.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> <1410199193.5611.326.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> <20140908184246.GA9600@shaftnet.org> <1410207382.5611.341.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> Message-ID: <20140908205032.GA19644@shaftnet.org> On Mon, Sep 08, 2014 at 04:16:22PM -0400, Michael H. Warfield wrote: > Then why did XFCE on the same hardware scream? Are you saying that > OpenGL is the fault for the suckiness? This was the same machine. Same XFCE doesn't use OpenGL to draw windows etc etc etc. It relies on the "traditional" X 2D primitives (lines, fills, bitblt) that no longer exist on modern graphics hardware, and have had to been implemented internally by the various drivers in various stages of bugginess and performances. (The GLAMOR effort that natively runs 2D stuff via OpenGL is an attempt to pull that crap out of the drivers and back into the main stack, where it belongs, and coindicentally ends up being a lot faster..) There's been a lot of behind-the-scenes progress in the graphics stack over the past few years; basic infrastructure stuff is still progressing by leaps and bounds, and yes, GNOME3 is a big driver and beneficiary of that. - Solomon -- Solomon Peachy pizza at shaftnet dot org Delray Beach, FL ^^ (email/xmpp) ^^ Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 155 bytes Desc: not available URL: From damon at damtek.com Mon Sep 8 17:06:25 2014 From: damon at damtek.com (Damon L. Chesser) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 17:06:25 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: <1410206143.5611.337.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> <1410198510.5611.322.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> <1410199193.5611.326.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> <1410206143.5611.337.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> Message-ID: <540E1A51.30200@damtek.com> Now, that sounds interesting. On 09/08/2014 03:55 PM, Michael H. Warfield wrote: > On Mon, 2014-09-08 at 15:04 -0400, James Sumners wrote: >> On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 2:59 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: >> >>> E != Gnome :-( >>> >>> E has a reputation for long devel cycles and really good stuff on release. >>> Gnome cranks out stuff ans usually hits date targets and often delivers >>> crap but occasionally hands over a jewel. I need to look at E again. Been a >>> long time. >>> >> Yep. And the only reason I switched to XFCE instead of (back to) E was down >> to everything of any use was built on GTK+. > Ah! But E is a window manager while XFCE is a desktop/session manager. > I run XFCE with E16 as my window manager. They're not at all > incompatible and not particularly hard to switch to. > > Yes, you can run "pure E" as a desktop manager as well, but I do like > having the panels ala GNOME < 3 and XFCE, while E gives me all the > workspaces I want with as many viewports wide an high as I want while I > still run XFCE and it's panels. > > Regards, > Mike -- Damon at damtek.com 404-271-8699 From jdp at algoloma.com Mon Sep 8 17:42:26 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 17:42:26 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT - SED drive compatibility In-Reply-To: References: <53FB7413.1050507@algoloma.com> , Message-ID: <540E22C2.5040408@algoloma.com> On 09/08/2014 02:05 PM, Beddingfield, Allen wrote: > Luckily, our HIPAA compliant systems are all Windows-based, and a problem for another team :D That just sounds .... WRONG! OTOH, having a huge S.E.P. field is nice. From jdp at algoloma.com Mon Sep 8 17:52:21 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 17:52:21 -0400 Subject: [ale] power In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <540E2515.90509@algoloma.com> On 09/08/2014 01:20 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > What power outage gear is being used at home by ALE? At work by ALE people? Dual 1500VA cyberpower UPS for the CPUs, Arrays, networking and telephony stuff. No monitors or printers are on battery - there are enough portable devices here to make that a non-issue. In the last 15+ yrs here, there hasn't been any outage longer than 10 minutes except * 1 thunderstorm around 2002 that knocked out power for 4 hrs * replacement of the house meter in 2009-ish - down for about 30 min. Batteries will last just over 30 min with the stuff I have on it today. If you don't have high end GPUs, it is amazing how little power is actually used - 240W for 4 boxes - not counting laptops/netbooks/tablets or stuff outside "the core". ;) All utilities are underground for the neighborhood and I'm near the entrance, to only 2 idiots might dig the 4 ft down to hit the fibre that terminates at the box in my yard. Network outages are a completely different issue. Comcast was out for 2 hrs Saturday and again for 10 min overnight. Usually it isn't a big deal, but sometimes it is. From james.sumners at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 18:24:25 2014 From: james.sumners at gmail.com (James Sumners) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 18:24:25 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: <1410206143.5611.337.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> <1410198510.5611.322.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> <1410199193.5611.326.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> <1410206143.5611.337.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 3:55 PM, Michael H. Warfield wrote: > > Yep. And the only reason I switched to XFCE instead of (back to) E was > down > > to everything of any use was built on GTK+. > > Ah! But E is a window manager while XFCE is a desktop/session manager. > I run XFCE with E16 as my window manager. They're not at all > incompatible and not particularly hard to switch to. > > Yes, you can run "pure E" as a desktop manager as well, but I do like > having the panels ala GNOME < 3 and XFCE, while E gives me all the > workspaces I want with as many viewports wide an high as I want while I > still run XFCE and it's panels. E16 was merely a window manager (with extra features). E17 is more akin to a full on desktop environment (ala GNOME or KDE). -- James Sumners http://james.roomfullofmirrors.com/ "All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted." Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto) CH:D 59 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdp at algoloma.com Mon Sep 8 18:39:18 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 18:39:18 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> Message-ID: <540E3016.30407@algoloma.com> On 09/08/2014 12:45 PM, Derek Atkins wrote: > Long live XFCE! :) Long live fvwm! From evan at banyash.com Mon Sep 8 19:02:19 2014 From: evan at banyash.com (Evan Banyash) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 19:02:19 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: <540E3016.30407@algoloma.com> References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> <540E3016.30407@algoloma.com> Message-ID: Okay, FVWM is definitely dead. I know that for certain because a project exists specifically to resurrect it! https://github.com/ThomasAdam/mvwm On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 6:39 PM, JD wrote: > On 09/08/2014 12:45 PM, Derek Atkins wrote: > > Long live XFCE! :) > > Long live fvwm! > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bugyatl at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 19:19:06 2014 From: bugyatl at gmail.com (Boris Borisov) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 19:19:06 -0400 Subject: [ale] [OT] Need a favor In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have KDS 17" old CRT. Still run it on projects. Definitely not worn. If is for good cause is free ... On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 12:56 PM, leam hall wrote: > I'll kick in a few $$ for the pack. > > On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 12:45 PM, Beddingfield, Allen wrote: > > Oops, sorry. I meant to reply directly to Chuck, and not to the list. > > Hmmm....so I'm creating another message of interest to no one else by > sending this message.... maybe not such a good idea after all :D > > > > -- > > Allen Beddingfield > > Systems Engineer > > The University of Alabama > > > > ________________________________________ > > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [ale-bounces at ale.org] on behalf of > Beddingfield, Allen [allen at ua.edu] > > Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 11:43 AM > > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts > > Subject: Re: [ale] [OT] Need a favor > > > > Hey Chuck, > > I buy computer and monitors from an e-recycling company and > refurbish/resell the computers. I have some LCDs that I have $25 each in. > If you don't find any/enough for free, I would be glad to let you some at > my cost on them. I'm going to be over there in the Sandy Springs area next > week, and could bring a few over. Just let me know if you want me to, and > I'll pack a few with me when I go. > > Thanks! > > Allen B. > > -- > > Allen Beddingfield > > Systems Engineer > > The University of Alabama > > > > ________________________________________ > > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [ale-bounces at ale.org] on behalf of Chuck > Payne [terrorpup at gmail.com] > > Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 11:14 AM > > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts - Yes! We run Linux! > > Subject: [ale] [OT] Need a favor > > > > Guys, > > > > I need to ask a favor. My den is working on a computer pin. Instead of > > using old laptops or old pc to teach the cubs. We are going help the kids > > build their own PC. With the price of Pi, the cubs can built their own. > > > > My favor is this, I need Monitor, I like to see anyone has old LCD 15" or > > 17" square monitor. I like to find ones with DVI connector. I figure I > > would ask my ale friends because many of you might have in a garage, > > basement, or attic old LCD monitors not being use. > > > > -- > > Terror PUP a.k.a > > Chuck "PUP" Payne > > > > (678) 636-9678 > > ----------------------------------------- > > Discover it! Enjoy it! Share it! openSUSE Linux. > > ----------------------------------------- > > openSUSE -- Terrorpup > > openSUSE Ambassador/openSUSE Member > > Community Manager -- Southeast Linux Foundation (SELF) > > skype,twiiter,identica,friendfeed -- terrorpup > > freenode(irc) --terrorpup/lupinstein > > Register Linux Userid: 155363 > > > > Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to > > package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE > Studio > > a try. > > See you at Southeast Linux Fest, June 19-21, 2015 in Charlotte, NC. > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140908/0beefa06/attachment.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > -- > Mind on a Mission > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From damon at damtek.com Mon Sep 8 19:34:25 2014 From: damon at damtek.com (Damon L. Chesser) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 19:34:25 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> <540E3016.30407@algoloma.com> Message-ID: <540E3D01.9000309@damtek.com> On 09/08/2014 07:02 PM, Evan Banyash wrote: > Okay, FVWM is definitely dead. I know that for certain because a project > exists specifically to resurrect it! So. It IS ALIVE! Long live FVWM! > > https://github.com/ThomasAdam/mvwm > > On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 6:39 PM, JD wrote: > >> On 09/08/2014 12:45 PM, Derek Atkins wrote: >>> Long live XFCE! :) >> Long live fvwm! >> _______________________________________________ >> Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -- Damon at damtek.com 404-271-8699 From pete.hardie at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 20:28:44 2014 From: pete.hardie at gmail.com (Pete Hardie) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 20:28:44 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: <540E3D01.9000309@damtek.com> References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> <540E3016.30407@algoloma.com> <540E3D01.9000309@damtek.com> Message-ID: Its alive....its alive....ITS ALIVE!!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VkrUG3OrPc On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 7:34 PM, Damon L. Chesser wrote: > > On 09/08/2014 07:02 PM, Evan Banyash wrote: > >> Okay, FVWM is definitely dead. I know that for certain because a project >> exists specifically to resurrect it! >> > > So. It IS ALIVE! Long live FVWM! > >> >> https://github.com/ThomasAdam/mvwm >> >> On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 6:39 PM, JD wrote: >> >> On 09/08/2014 12:45 PM, Derek Atkins wrote: >>> >>>> Long live XFCE! :) >>>> >>> Long live fvwm! >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ale mailing list >>> Ale at ale.org >>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >>> >>> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: > 20140908/dff00170/attachment.html> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> > > -- > Damon at damtek.com > 404-271-8699 > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- Pete Hardie -------- Better Living Through Bitmaps -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdp at algoloma.com Mon Sep 8 20:45:16 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 20:45:16 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> <540E3016.30407@algoloma.com> Message-ID: <540E4D9C.3090705@algoloma.com> All these young whipper snappers with "DEs". Just don't need/want it. But I'm not a barbarian running twm. ;) Plus my ~/.fvwmrc file hasn't needed major updating in years! THAT is a big WIN for me - and it works nicely in remote VMs, unlike many of the other options. ;) On 09/08/2014 07:02 PM, Evan Banyash wrote: > Okay, FVWM is definitely dead. I know that for certain because a project > exists specifically to resurrect it! > > https://github.com/ThomasAdam/mvwm > > On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 6:39 PM, JD wrote: > >> On 09/08/2014 12:45 PM, Derek Atkins wrote: >>> Long live XFCE! :) >> >> Long live fvwm! >> _______________________________________________ From bugyatl at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 20:47:49 2014 From: bugyatl at gmail.com (Boris Borisov) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 20:47:49 -0400 Subject: [ale] Desktop manager was systemd Message-ID: Obviously systems thread went in other direction . So there is another question. What features you need from your Desktop. I'm not fancy Desktop user even in Windows environment. What I need is window manager that allow me to move windows in way I like it, taskbar with start button menu aka win95, some icons are good plus, and the window manager should have good support for UTF8. That's why I always do apt-get install icewm. No icons there ... And who needs OpenGL to compose bitmap ...... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rb211 at tds.net Mon Sep 8 20:48:18 2014 From: rb211 at tds.net (William Bagwell) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 20:48:18 -0400 Subject: [ale] power In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <201409082048.18524.rb211@tds.net> On Monday 08 September 2014, Jim Kinney wrote: > There are at least 2 substations that power Emory. The hospital is > SUPPOSED to be power-outage proof (thus MY concerns for the ebola work!). Worked at a factory (1996 - 2003) that had a feed from two power companies. Only remember two power outages and one of those was a dropped phase. (3 phase machines do *not* like this!) Possible this was the case? One would think whatever they spent big bucks on could recognize this as well and switch, but perhaps they consider it too rare of an event to bother with. Had a cheapish ~$100 UPS here when I was in school because of a few on-line classes. As it got older I noticed that momentary power glitches only kicked *my* computer off. Wife, son & daughter's computer as well as the firewall all stayed up. UPS went buy-buy after that:) -- William From skotchman at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 22:08:07 2014 From: skotchman at gmail.com (Scott Castaline) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 22:08:07 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> <540DE756.8030700@damtek.com> <4c60cf2edb2f1ac40ef25553affda89d.squirrel@mail2.ihtfp.org>, <540DEB80.60805@damtek.com> Message-ID: <540E6107.1020305@gmail.com> Hmm no mention of feathers On 09/08/2014 01:59 PM, Beddingfield, Allen wrote: > Be sure it is a sufficiently scratchy rope :D > -- > Allen Beddingfield > Systems Engineer > The University of Alabama > > ________________________________________ > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [ale-bounces at ale.org] on behalf of Damon L. Chesser [damon at damtek.com] > Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 12:46 PM > To: ale at ale.org > Subject: Re: [ale] systemd or not > > Shall I get a rope? > > > who has the tar? > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -- Sent from my Fedora Linux PC to you, NSA, the CIA, FBI, HSA and God only knows who else?! From sfnicholas at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 22:28:59 2014 From: sfnicholas at gmail.com (Steve Nicholas) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 22:28:59 -0400 Subject: [ale] power In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sweet!! On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 1:34 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > At home, I have a rather beefy APC to support a server, switch and cable > modem until the 15KW natural gas generator kicks in. > > On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 1:25 PM, leam hall wrote: > > > I'm interested in this from a "need to get better power support" at home. > > > > On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 1:20 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > > > Had a power blink that hit the entire campus, hospital, everything at > > > Emory. Operating rooms went dark for about 10 seconds then it all came > > > back. > > > > > > There are at least 2 substations that power Emory. The hospital is > > SUPPOSED > > > to be power-outage proof (thus MY concerns for the ebola work!). > > > > > > What power outage gear is being used at home by ALE? At work by ALE > > people? > > > Apparently the datacenter here stayed up. But the power outage in the > > > operating rooms occured while surgery was ongoing including brain > surgery > > > with a computer-controlled microscope. > > > > > > Yikes! > > > > > > -- > > > -- > > > James P. Kinney III > > > > > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you > > gain > > > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own > > tail. > > > It won't fatten the dog. > > > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > > > > > > > *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > > > * > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > URL: < > > > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140908/f8fb616a/attachment.html > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Ale mailing list > > > Ale at ale.org > > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > > > > > -- > > Mind on a Mission > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > > > -- > -- > James P. Kinney III > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. > It won't fatten the dog. > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > * > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140908/9599f9e8/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vernard at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 23:33:15 2014 From: vernard at gmail.com (Vernard Martin) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 23:33:15 -0400 Subject: [ale] power In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <540E74FB.4000905@gmail.com> On 9/8/2014 1:20 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > Had a power blink that hit the entire campus, hospital, everything at > Emory. Operating rooms went dark for about 10 seconds then it all came > back. > > There are at least 2 substations that power Emory. The hospital is SUPPOSED > to be power-outage proof (thus MY concerns for the ebola work!). > What power outage gear is being used at home by ALE? At work by ALE people? > Apparently the datacenter here stayed up. But the power outage in the > operating rooms occured while surgery was ongoing including brain surgery > with a computer-controlled microscope. > I have no battery backup at the moment. the caveat is that at the moment I have nothing running at home that I would cry about if I lost it. :) And don't worry about the ebola work at Emory. Lack of electricity doesn't play a factor in how the disease is spread. But you knew that already right? :) V From vernard at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 23:33:25 2014 From: vernard at gmail.com (Vernard Martin) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 23:33:25 -0400 Subject: [ale] power In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <540E7505.7040300@gmail.com> > What power outage gear is being used at home by ALE? At work by ALE people? > Apparently the datacenter here stayed up. But the power outage in the > operating rooms occured while surgery was ongoing including brain surgery > with a computer-controlled microscope. > I have no battery backup at the moment. the caveat is that at the moment I have nothing running at home that I would cry about if I lost it. :) And don't worry about the ebola work at Emory. Lack of electricity doesn't play a factor in how the disease is spread. But you knew that already right? :) V From agcarver+ale at acarver.net Tue Sep 9 00:16:08 2014 From: agcarver+ale at acarver.net (Alex Carver) Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2014 21:16:08 -0700 Subject: [ale] power In-Reply-To: <540E7505.7040300@gmail.com> References: <540E7505.7040300@gmail.com> Message-ID: <540E7F08.1050707@acarver.net> On 2014-09-08 20:33, Vernard Martin wrote: > >> What power outage gear is being used at home by ALE? At work by ALE >> people? >> Apparently the datacenter here stayed up. But the power outage in the >> operating rooms occured while surgery was ongoing including brain surgery >> with a computer-controlled microscope. >> > I have no battery backup at the moment. the caveat is that at the moment > I have nothing running at home that I would cry about if I lost it. :) > > And don't worry about the ebola work at Emory. Lack of electricity > doesn't play a factor in how the disease is spread. But you knew that > already right? :) It's spread by zombies and the zombie apocalypse is predicated on a loss of power. I've seen the movies, I know the truth. :) From damon at damtek.com Tue Sep 9 00:38:12 2014 From: damon at damtek.com (Damon L. Chesser) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 00:38:12 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: <540E6107.1020305@gmail.com> References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> <540DE756.8030700@damtek.com> <4c60cf2edb2f1ac40ef25553affda89d.squirrel@mail2.ihtfp.org>, <540DEB80.60805@damtek.com> <540E6107.1020305@gmail.com> Message-ID: <540E8434.7080405@damtek.com> I wanted a community effort. On 09/08/2014 10:08 PM, Scott Castaline wrote: > Hmm no mention of feathers > > On 09/08/2014 01:59 PM, Beddingfield, Allen wrote: >> Be sure it is a sufficiently scratchy rope :D >> -- >> Allen Beddingfield >> Systems Engineer >> The University of Alabama >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [ale-bounces at ale.org] on behalf of Damon L. >> Chesser [damon at damtek.com] >> Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 12:46 PM >> To: ale at ale.org >> Subject: Re: [ale] systemd or not >> >> Shall I get a rope? >> >> >> who has the tar? >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > -- Damon at damtek.com 404-271-8699 From pbcartwright at gmail.com Tue Sep 9 06:34:16 2014 From: pbcartwright at gmail.com (Paul Cartwright) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 06:34:16 -0400 Subject: [ale] Desktop manager was systemd In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <540ED7A8.30901@gmail.com> On 09/08/2014 08:47 PM, Boris Borisov wrote: > Obviously systems thread went in other direction . So there is another > question. What features you need from your Desktop. I'm not fancy Desktop > user even in Windows environment. What I need is window manager that allow > me to move windows in way I like it, taskbar with start button menu aka > win95, some icons are good plus, and the window manager should have good > support for UTF8. That's why I always do apt-get install icewm. No icons > there ... have you tried MATE?? http://mate-desktop.org/ http://wiki.mate-desktop.org/download -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 From pbcartwright at gmail.com Tue Sep 9 06:37:25 2014 From: pbcartwright at gmail.com (Paul Cartwright) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 06:37:25 -0400 Subject: [ale] power In-Reply-To: <540E2515.90509@algoloma.com> References: <540E2515.90509@algoloma.com> Message-ID: <540ED865.8040504@gmail.com> On 09/08/2014 05:52 PM, JD wrote: > All utilities are underground for the neighborhood and I'm near the entrance, to > only 2 idiots might dig the 4 ft down to hit the fibre that terminates at the > box in my yard. we live at the end of a 1/4 mile-long cul-de-sac. the electric lines are in the poles, and next to the poles are 100' tall trees, the entire length. in 8 years, the power has gone out here 3 times, once for 3 days. funny, from the last pole our power line is buried 300 feet to the house.. -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 From pbcartwright at gmail.com Tue Sep 9 06:38:51 2014 From: pbcartwright at gmail.com (Paul Cartwright) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 06:38:51 -0400 Subject: [ale] power In-Reply-To: <201409082048.18524.rb211@tds.net> References: <201409082048.18524.rb211@tds.net> Message-ID: <540ED8BB.3060203@gmail.com> On 09/08/2014 08:48 PM, William Bagwell wrote: > Had a cheapish ~$100 UPS here when I was in school because of a few on-line > classes. As it got older I noticed that momentary power glitches only kicked > *my* computer off. Wife, son & daughter's computer as well as the firewall > all stayed up. UPS went buy-buy after that:) APC has a nice trade-up program ( or they did).. and hot-swappable batteries.. -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 From pete.hardie at gmail.com Tue Sep 9 08:08:31 2014 From: pete.hardie at gmail.com (Pete Hardie) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 08:08:31 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: <540E8434.7080405@damtek.com> References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> <540DE756.8030700@damtek.com> <4c60cf2edb2f1ac40ef25553affda89d.squirrel@mail2.ihtfp.org> <540DEB80.60805@damtek.com> <540E6107.1020305@gmail.com> <540E8434.7080405@damtek.com> Message-ID: So you are looking for a BOAF session? On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 12:38 AM, Damon L. Chesser wrote: > I wanted a community effort. > > > On 09/08/2014 10:08 PM, Scott Castaline wrote: > >> Hmm no mention of feathers >> >> On 09/08/2014 01:59 PM, Beddingfield, Allen wrote: >> >>> Be sure it is a sufficiently scratchy rope :D >>> -- >>> Allen Beddingfield >>> Systems Engineer >>> The University of Alabama >>> >>> ________________________________________ >>> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [ale-bounces at ale.org] on behalf of Damon L. >>> Chesser [damon at damtek.com] >>> Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 12:46 PM >>> To: ale at ale.org >>> Subject: Re: [ale] systemd or not >>> >>> Shall I get a rope? >>> >>> >>> who has the tar? >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ale mailing list >>> Ale at ale.org >>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >>> >> >> >> > -- > Damon at damtek.com > 404-271-8699 > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- Pete Hardie -------- Better Living Through Bitmaps -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdp at algoloma.com Tue Sep 9 10:15:02 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 10:15:02 -0400 Subject: [ale] Please Help ALE-NW Installfest Saturday 9/20 Message-ID: <540F0B66.3020506@algoloma.com> H E L P !!! The installfest is just 11 days away! Still need volunteers to help during different times of the day. If you can help for 2-3 hrs any time Saturday 9/20, that would be a huge help. Date: Saturday 9/20 Starts: 10am Ends: 5pm Location: SPSU Atrium bldg - room J-266 Directions: http://ale.org/?page_id=506 Parking: Free parking This is in the same room as all our meetings scheduled for this fall, J-266. It is a nice, big, classroom with tables. From evan at banyash.com Tue Sep 9 10:21:41 2014 From: evan at banyash.com (Evan Banyash) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 10:21:41 -0400 Subject: [ale] Please Help ALE-NW Installfest Saturday 9/20 In-Reply-To: <540F0B66.3020506@algoloma.com> References: <540F0B66.3020506@algoloma.com> Message-ID: Yeah, I go to spsu, know how to install various Linux distros and am free that day. I can be there for sure. I wake up late on weekends so I'd probably be there at like 1 pm. On Sep 9, 2014 10:16 AM, "JD" wrote: > H E L P !!! > > The installfest is just 11 days away! > > Still need volunteers to help during different times of the day. > > If you can help for 2-3 hrs any time Saturday 9/20, that would be a huge > help. > > Date: Saturday 9/20 > Starts: 10am > Ends: 5pm > Location: SPSU Atrium bldg - room J-266 > Directions: http://ale.org/?page_id=506 > Parking: Free parking > > > This is in the same room as all our meetings scheduled for this fall, > J-266. It > is a nice, big, classroom with tables. > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pbcartwright at gmail.com Tue Sep 9 10:31:28 2014 From: pbcartwright at gmail.com (Paul Cartwright) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 10:31:28 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not- *BSD In-Reply-To: <540E4D9C.3090705@algoloma.com> References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> <540E3016.30407@algoloma.com> <540E4D9C.3090705@algoloma.com> Message-ID: <540F0F40.8060602@gmail.com> so, does anyone use *BSD for a desktop system?? free/Open.. I used to use E16 back in Windows dayz, last time I tried E17 I had to rebuild my linux OS... it was ugly.. > All these young whipper snappers with "DEs". Just don't need/want it. But I'm > not a barbarian running twm. ;) > > Plus my ~/.fvwmrc file hasn't needed major updating in years! THAT is a big WIN > for me - and it works nicely in remote VMs, unlike many of the other options. ;) > > On 09/08/2014 07:02 PM, Evan Banyash wrote: >> Okay, FVWM is definitely dead. I know that for certain because a project >> exists specifically to resurrect it! >> >> https://github.com/ThomasAdam/mvwm >> >> On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 6:39 PM, JD wrote: >> >>> On 09/08/2014 12:45 PM, Derek Atkins wrote: >>>> Long live XFCE! :) >>> Long live fvwm! >>> _______________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 From allen at ua.edu Tue Sep 9 10:34:59 2014 From: allen at ua.edu (Beddingfield, Allen) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 14:34:59 +0000 Subject: [ale] systemd or not- *BSD In-Reply-To: <540F0F40.8060602@gmail.com> References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> <540E3016.30407@algoloma.com> <540E4D9C.3090705@algoloma.com>,<540F0F40.8060602@gmail.com> Message-ID: I've tried a few times over the years, and there is just so much that is not available. The last time I checked, there was no Flash player option, and as far as I know, there is no chrome/pepper flash in the BSD world. Allen B. -- Allen Beddingfield Systems Engineer The University of Alabama ________________________________________ From: ale-bounces at ale.org [ale-bounces at ale.org] on behalf of Paul Cartwright [pbcartwright at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2014 9:31 AM To: ale at ale.org Subject: Re: [ale] systemd or not- *BSD so, does anyone use *BSD for a desktop system?? free/Open.. I used to use E16 back in Windows dayz, last time I tried E17 I had to rebuild my linux OS... it was ugly.. > All these young whipper snappers with "DEs". Just don't need/want it. But I'm > not a barbarian running twm. ;) > > Plus my ~/.fvwmrc file hasn't needed major updating in years! THAT is a big WIN > for me - and it works nicely in remote VMs, unlike many of the other options. ;) > > On 09/08/2014 07:02 PM, Evan Banyash wrote: >> Okay, FVWM is definitely dead. I know that for certain because a project >> exists specifically to resurrect it! >> >> https://github.com/ThomasAdam/mvwm >> >> On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 6:39 PM, JD wrote: >> >>> On 09/08/2014 12:45 PM, Derek Atkins wrote: >>>> Long live XFCE! :) >>> Long live fvwm! >>> _______________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo From pbcartwright at gmail.com Tue Sep 9 10:35:05 2014 From: pbcartwright at gmail.com (Paul Cartwright) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 10:35:05 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: <540B51D6.7070404@trausch.us> References: <540B51D6.7070404@trausch.us> Message-ID: <540F1019.9000105@gmail.com> On 09/06/2014 02:26 PM, Michael B. Trausch wrote: > On 09/05/2014 12:23 PM, David Tomaschik wrote: >> Is there anywhere that actually provides a coherent technical >> argument for >> why systemd is bad? So far the complaints I've found online are >> "I'll need >> to learn something new", "it's bloated" (ok, true, but so is so much >> of our >> software these days), and "don't fix what isn't broken." (Except, to >> some >> people, the status quo is broken.) > > The best I've seen is Debian's analysis: > > https://people.debian.org/~stapelberg/docs/systemd-dependencies.html > > That covers systemd 204; we're up to 216 now, but as the README shows > (and as can be confirmed as indicated in my previous post), systemd > really only needs 4 dependencies, so a complete, working, barebones > Linux command-line system (with just the root user) is possible in 5 > packages. > > Want multiple users? OK, add PAM. Rebuild systemd and busybox. Done. > > Not bad at all. Want to bootstrap a distribution yourself because you > need something TINY? Systemd becomes your best friend. Especially on > "semiembeddeds" like the R?. > found this on the fedora list, where they are also hashing out systemd... http://boycottsystemd.org/ as I asked before, who runs *BSD, or is it even worth looking for a desktop system that doesn't run systemd.. -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 From leamhall at gmail.com Tue Sep 9 10:36:56 2014 From: leamhall at gmail.com (leam hall) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 10:36:56 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not- *BSD In-Reply-To: <540F0F40.8060602@gmail.com> References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> <540E3016.30407@algoloma.com> <540E4D9C.3090705@algoloma.com> <540F0F40.8060602@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Paul Cartwright wrote: > so, does anyone use *BSD for a desktop system?? free/Open.. > I used to use E16 back in Windows dayz, last time I tried E17 I had to > rebuild my linux OS... it was ugly.. The more I see how Linux is going the more BSD appeals. I used to run NetBSD as a desktop. Of course I was using also Mutt, I think. -- Mind on a Mission From jim.kinney at gmail.com Tue Sep 9 10:37:47 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 10:37:47 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not- *BSD In-Reply-To: <540F0F40.8060602@gmail.com> References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> <540E3016.30407@algoloma.com> <540E4D9C.3090705@algoloma.com> <540F0F40.8060602@gmail.com> Message-ID: a zillion years ago I tried E??. It took a month of Sundays to build and then I had to configure every single thing manually. It was pretty to look at and quite fast to use but the setup was a pain. Haven't done a *BSD in a very long time (10 years?). On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Paul Cartwright wrote: > so, does anyone use *BSD for a desktop system?? free/Open.. > I used to use E16 back in Windows dayz, last time I tried E17 I had to > rebuild my linux OS... it was ugly.. > > > All these young whipper snappers with "DEs". Just don't need/want it. > But I'm > > not a barbarian running twm. ;) > > > > Plus my ~/.fvwmrc file hasn't needed major updating in years! THAT is a > big WIN > > for me - and it works nicely in remote VMs, unlike many of the other > options. ;) > > > > On 09/08/2014 07:02 PM, Evan Banyash wrote: > >> Okay, FVWM is definitely dead. I know that for certain because a project > >> exists specifically to resurrect it! > >> > >> https://github.com/ThomasAdam/mvwm > >> > >> On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 6:39 PM, JD wrote: > >> > >>> On 09/08/2014 12:45 PM, Derek Atkins wrote: > >>>> Long live XFCE! :) > >>> Long live fvwm! > >>> _______________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > > -- > Paul Cartwright > Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.sumners at gmail.com Tue Sep 9 10:52:34 2014 From: james.sumners at gmail.com (James Sumners) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 10:52:34 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: <540F1019.9000105@gmail.com> References: <540B51D6.7070404@trausch.us> <540F1019.9000105@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 10:35 AM, Paul Cartwright wrote: > found this on the fedora list, where they are also hashing out systemd... > > http://boycottsystemd.org/ > All of that is awesome. But point #10 says exactly what I've been saying this whole thread, just in better words: "10. systemd's complicated nature makes it harder to extend and step outside its boundaries. While you can more or less trivially start shell scripts from unit files, it's more difficult to write behavior that goes outside the box, what with all the feature bloat. Many users will likely need to write more complicated programs that directly interact with the systemd API, or even patch systemd directly. One also needs to worry about a much higher multitude of code paths and behaviors in a system-critical program, including the possibility of systemd not synchronizing with the message bus queue on boot, and thus freezing. This is as opposed to a conventional init, which is deterministic and predictable in nature, mostly just execing scripts." i.e. it gets in the way. > > as I asked before, who runs *BSD, or is it even worth looking for a > desktop system that doesn't run systemd.. > Technically, I use a *BSD system that doesn't use systemd, but it does use something just as annoying -- launchd. If I were to switch back to using FOSS for my daily desktop needs (it's possible), I'd give FreeBSD or OpenBSD a chance. -- James Sumners http://james.roomfullofmirrors.com/ "All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted." Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto) CH:D 59 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pbcartwright at gmail.com Tue Sep 9 11:28:21 2014 From: pbcartwright at gmail.com (Paul Cartwright) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 11:28:21 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not- *BSD In-Reply-To: References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> <540E3016.30407@algoloma.com> <540E4D9C.3090705@algoloma.com> <540F0F40.8060602@gmail.com> Message-ID: <540F1C95.3050901@gmail.com> On 09/09/2014 10:36 AM, leam hall wrote: > On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Paul Cartwright wrote: >> so, does anyone use *BSD for a desktop system?? free/Open.. >> I used to use E16 back in Windows dayz, last time I tried E17 I had to >> rebuild my linux OS... it was ugly.. > The more I see how Linux is going the more BSD appeals. I used to run > NetBSD as a desktop. Of course I was using also Mutt, I think. > well back in the day I also used mailx, pine... and no graphical interface, on a UNIX system, but.... I really like chrome & thunderbird.. -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 From ale at doc-x.net Tue Sep 9 11:29:50 2014 From: ale at doc-x.net (Dylan Northrup) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 11:29:50 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not- *BSD In-Reply-To: References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> <540E3016.30407@algoloma.com> <540E4D9C.3090705@algoloma.com> <540F0F40.8060602@gmail.com> Message-ID: My OS X box works pretty nicely with its BSD foundations :-) On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 10:37 AM, Jim Kinney wrote: > a zillion years ago I tried E??. It took a month of Sundays to build and > then I had to configure every single thing manually. It was pretty to look > at and quite fast to use but the setup was a pain. > > Haven't done a *BSD in a very long time (10 years?). > > On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Paul Cartwright > wrote: > > > so, does anyone use *BSD for a desktop system?? free/Open.. > > I used to use E16 back in Windows dayz, last time I tried E17 I had to > > rebuild my linux OS... it was ugly.. > > > > > All these young whipper snappers with "DEs". Just don't need/want it. > > But I'm > > > not a barbarian running twm. ;) > > > > > > Plus my ~/.fvwmrc file hasn't needed major updating in years! THAT is a > > big WIN > > > for me - and it works nicely in remote VMs, unlike many of the other > > options. ;) > > > > > > On 09/08/2014 07:02 PM, Evan Banyash wrote: > > >> Okay, FVWM is definitely dead. I know that for certain because a > project > > >> exists specifically to resurrect it! > > >> > > >> https://github.com/ThomasAdam/mvwm > > >> > > >> On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 6:39 PM, JD wrote: > > >> > > >>> On 09/08/2014 12:45 PM, Derek Atkins wrote: > > >>>> Long live XFCE! :) > > >>> Long live fvwm! > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Ale mailing list > > > Ale at ale.org > > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > > > > > > -- > > Paul Cartwright > > Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > > > -- > -- > James P. Kinney III > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. > It won't fatten the dog. > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > * > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140909/152bebae/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- Dylan Northrup "Adversity is just change we haven't adapted ourselves to yet." - Aimee Mullins -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pbcartwright at gmail.com Tue Sep 9 11:33:08 2014 From: pbcartwright at gmail.com (Paul Cartwright) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 11:33:08 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not- *BSD In-Reply-To: References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> <540E3016.30407@algoloma.com> <540E4D9C.3090705@algoloma.com> <540F0F40.8060602@gmail.com> Message-ID: <540F1DB4.2010104@gmail.com> On 09/09/2014 10:37 AM, Jim Kinney wrote: > a zillion years ago I tried E??. It took a month of Sundays to build > and then I had to configure every single thing manually. It was pretty > to look at and quite fast to use but the setup was a pain. > > Haven't done a *BSD in a very long time (10 years?). > I was also reading something about a split for linux OSes, one for desktop, the other for server.. I think *BSD falls under the server category.. really not even close to ready for prime time desktop.. I joined a BSD mailing list once, asked a newbie question. got slapped around pretty bad & told to read the numerous man pages.. blew that away & reinstalled linux. as a user, I'm not sure I have an opinion of systemd. nothing about it showed up in my installation ( fedora 20 amd_64) and things just work. as an administrator, changing something I used for 20 years is always a challenge. -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 From allen at ua.edu Tue Sep 9 11:37:05 2014 From: allen at ua.edu (Beddingfield, Allen) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 15:37:05 +0000 Subject: [ale] systemd or not- *BSD In-Reply-To: <540F1DB4.2010104@gmail.com> References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> <540E3016.30407@algoloma.com> <540E4D9C.3090705@algoloma.com> <540F0F40.8060602@gmail.com> , <540F1DB4.2010104@gmail.com> Message-ID: I saw that article about a "split" yesterday on Slashdot, and it left me scratching my head.... SUSE has already done this with SUSE Linux Enterprise Server (SLES) and SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop (SLED). Ubuntu has also done this with their separate server release (or at least there used to be one available - I assume there still is). Red Hat used to do this, but they haven't had a purely desktop release in some years... Allen B. -- Allen Beddingfield Systems Engineer The University of Alabama ________________________________________ From: ale-bounces at ale.org [ale-bounces at ale.org] on behalf of Paul Cartwright [pbcartwright at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2014 10:33 AM To: Jim Kinney; Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [ale] systemd or not- *BSD I was also reading something about a split for linux OSes, one for desktop, the other for server.. I think *BSD falls under the server category.. really not even close to ready for prime time desktop.. I joined a BSD mailing list once, asked a newbie question. got slapped around pretty bad & told to read the numerous man pages.. blew that away & reinstalled linux. as a user, I'm not sure I have an opinion of systemd. nothing about it showed up in my installation ( fedora 20 amd_64) and things just work. as an administrator, changing something I used for 20 years is always a challenge. -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo From pizza at shaftnet.org Tue Sep 9 11:52:56 2014 From: pizza at shaftnet.org (Solomon Peachy) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 11:52:56 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: References: <540B51D6.7070404@trausch.us> <540F1019.9000105@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20140909155256.GA17681@shaftnet.org> On Tue, Sep 09, 2014 at 10:52:34AM -0400, James Sumners wrote: > This is as opposed to a conventional init, which is deterministic and > predictable in nature, mostly just execing scripts." I'm sorry, "deterministic and predictible" and "just executing scripts" do not belong in the same sentance. - Solomon -- Solomon Peachy pizza at shaftnet dot org Delray Beach, FL ^^ (email/xmpp) ^^ Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 155 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pbcartwright at gmail.com Tue Sep 9 11:59:09 2014 From: pbcartwright at gmail.com (Paul Cartwright) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 11:59:09 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not- *BSD In-Reply-To: References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> <540E3016.30407@algoloma.com> <540E4D9C.3090705@algoloma.com> <540F0F40.8060602@gmail.com> , <540F1DB4.2010104@gmail.com> Message-ID: <540F23CD.5070406@gmail.com> On 09/09/2014 11:37 AM, Beddingfield, Allen wrote: > I saw that article about a "split" yesterday on Slashdot, and it left me scratching my head.... > SUSE has already done this with SUSE Linux Enterprise Server (SLES) and SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop (SLED). Ubuntu has also done this with their separate server release (or at least there used to be one available - I assume there still is). Red Hat used to do this, but they haven't had a purely desktop release in some years... > Allen B. SuSe was my first desktop linux OS.. is not openSuSe the "home" desktop OS?? SLED being work ?? sorta like red hat/CentOS/Fedora ? I used to have so many issues with SuSe.. mostly video related.. everytime I updated a kernel & rebooted, It brought me to a # prompt.. no startx.. -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 From allen at ua.edu Tue Sep 9 12:25:12 2014 From: allen at ua.edu (Beddingfield, Allen) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 16:25:12 +0000 Subject: [ale] systemd or not- *BSD In-Reply-To: <540F23CD.5070406@gmail.com> References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> <540E3016.30407@algoloma.com> <540E4D9C.3090705@algoloma.com> <540F0F40.8060602@gmail.com> , <540F1DB4.2010104@gmail.com> , <540F23CD.5070406@gmail.com> Message-ID: SLES is the commercial server version, while SLED is the desktop version (built on the same base, but with more desktop oriented packages, and less server oriented packages. openSUSE is the upstream. It is roughly to SLES/SLED what Fedora is to Red Hat. Allen B. -- Allen Beddingfield Systems Engineer The University of Alabama ________________________________________ From: ale-bounces at ale.org [ale-bounces at ale.org] on behalf of Paul Cartwright [pbcartwright at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2014 10:59 AM To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [ale] systemd or not- *BSD SuSe was my first desktop linux OS.. is not openSuSe the "home" desktop OS?? SLED being work ?? sorta like red hat/CentOS/Fedora ? I used to have so many issues with SuSe.. mostly video related.. everytime I updated a kernel & rebooted, It brought me to a # prompt.. no startx.. -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo From James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com Tue Sep 9 12:25:35 2014 From: James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com (James Taylor) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 12:25:35 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not- *BSD In-Reply-To: <540F23CD.5070406@gmail.com> References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> <540E3016.30407@algoloma.com> <540E4D9C.3090705@algoloma.com> <540F0F40.8060602@gmail.com> , <540F1DB4.2010104@gmail.com> <540F23CD.5070406@gmail.com> Message-ID: <540EF1BF0200007500050A75@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> I've been using openSUSE and it's precursors for nearly fifteen years. Other than a few hiccups here and there, it has been install and forget. I've supported SLES for about the same time period. I've never been a fan of the SLED concept. Too limited and too behind. I recognize the need for a stable base for business, but SLED's application choices are too limited and almost always too out of date to be usable for me. -jt James Taylor 678-697-9420 james.taylor at eastcobbgroup.com >>> Paul Cartwright 9/9/2014 11:59 AM >>> On 09/09/2014 11:37 AM, Beddingfield, Allen wrote: > I saw that article about a "split" yesterday on Slashdot, and it left me scratching my head.... > SUSE has already done this with SUSE Linux Enterprise Server (SLES) and SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop (SLED). Ubuntu has also done this with their separate server release (or at least there used to be one available - I assume there still is). Red Hat used to do this, but they haven't had a purely desktop release in some years... > Allen B. SuSe was my first desktop linux OS.. is not openSuSe the "home" desktop OS?? SLED being work ?? sorta like red hat/CentOS/Fedora ? I used to have so many issues with SuSe.. mostly video related.. everytime I updated a kernel & rebooted, It brought me to a # prompt.. no startx.. -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo If this is an unsolicited spam message, please click this link to report it: http://control.eastcobbgroup.com:49285/contents/spamreport.shtml?rptid=56778&srvid=16vl15t From skotchman at gmail.com Tue Sep 9 13:00:11 2014 From: skotchman at gmail.com (Scott Castaline) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 13:00:11 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd or not In-Reply-To: References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> <540DE756.8030700@damtek.com> <4c60cf2edb2f1ac40ef25553affda89d.squirrel@mail2.ihtfp.org> <540DEB80.60805@damtek.com> <540E6107.1020305@gmail.com> <540E8434.7080405@damtek.com> Message-ID: <540F321B.30605@gmail.com> Pheasant under glass might be nice or a Cornish hen or two.:-) On 09/09/2014 08:08 AM, Pete Hardie wrote: > So you are looking for a BOAF session? > > On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 12:38 AM, Damon L. Chesser wrote: > >> I wanted a community effort. >> >> >> On 09/08/2014 10:08 PM, Scott Castaline wrote: >> >>> Hmm no mention of feathers >>> >>> On 09/08/2014 01:59 PM, Beddingfield, Allen wrote: >>> >>>> Be sure it is a sufficiently scratchy rope :D >>>> -- >>>> Allen Beddingfield >>>> Systems Engineer >>>> The University of Alabama >>>> >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [ale-bounces at ale.org] on behalf of Damon L. >>>> Chesser [damon at damtek.com] >>>> Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 12:46 PM >>>> To: ale at ale.org >>>> Subject: Re: [ale] systemd or not >>>> >>>> Shall I get a rope? >>>> >>>> >>>> who has the tar? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Ale mailing list >>>> Ale at ale.org >>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >>>> >>> >>> >> -- >> Damon at damtek.com >> 404-271-8699 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> > > -- Sent from my Fedora Linux PC to you, NSA, the CIA, FBI, HSA and God only knows who else?! From preston.lists at gmail.com Tue Sep 9 15:05:48 2014 From: preston.lists at gmail.com (Preston) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 14:05:48 -0500 Subject: [ale] systemd or not- *BSD In-Reply-To: <540F0F40.8060602@gmail.com> References: <540B50D4.6040405@trausch.us> <540B790D.2010304@trausch.us> <540BA76F.6030702@trausch.us> <540DC42E.1000404@trausch.us> <540E3016.30407@algoloma.com> <540E4D9C.3090705@algoloma.com> <540F0F40.8060602@gmail.com> Message-ID: <540F4F8C.4080605@gmail.com> On 9/9/2014 9:31 AM, Paul Cartwright wrote: > so, does anyone use *BSD for a desktop system?? free/Open.. > I used to use E16 back in Windows dayz, last time I tried E17 I had to > rebuild my linux OS... it was ugly.. PC-BSD is pretty good. http://www.pcbsd.org/ Preston -- Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don?t matter and those who matter don?t mind. -Dr. Seuss From preston.lists at gmail.com Tue Sep 9 15:26:41 2014 From: preston.lists at gmail.com (Preston) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 14:26:41 -0500 Subject: [ale] Desktop manager was systemd In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <540F5471.6080209@gmail.com> On 9/8/2014 7:47 PM, Boris Borisov wrote: > Obviously systems thread went in other direction . So there is another > question. What features you need from your Desktop. I'm not fancy Desktop > user even in Windows environment. What I need is window manager that allow > me to move windows in way I like it, taskbar with start button menu aka > win95, some icons are good plus, and the window manager should have good > support for UTF8. That's why I always do apt-get install icewm. No icons > there ... > > And who needs OpenGL to compose bitmap ...... > LXDE or LXQT (I've not used LXQT yet, but it looks interesting) Preston -- Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don?t matter and those who matter don?t mind. -Dr. Seuss From laytonjb at att.net Tue Sep 9 17:28:51 2014 From: laytonjb at att.net (Jeff Layton) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 17:28:51 -0400 Subject: [ale] [OT] Small, inexpensive cases or using threaded rods? Message-ID: <540F7113.1040402@att.net> Afternoon, Work is done so I can turn my attention to better things :) I'm looking at building a small cluster of 4 systems. Each system will have just the MB, memory, processor, and maybe an SSD or HD (no more than 2 per node). The boards are all micro-ATX or mini-ITX and I'm not sure which one I'm getting. I'm thinking about put each system in a small case with a power supply but I'd like to keep the case small. In looking at Newegg the smaller cases are all fairly pricey even without power supplies ($40-$80). The MB+CPU is less than $100 (I don't know how much memory I'll put in just yet). Any recommendations? (BTW - the CPUs draw 25W). The other alternative is going the "threaded rod" route. I've seen lots of people do this but I've never done. This would allow me to dump the case. Maybe something like this: http://www.calvin.edu/~adams/research/microwulf/ Has anyone done this before and could give me some advice offline? TIA and sorry for the interruption. Jeff From jim.kinney at gmail.com Tue Sep 9 17:44:53 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 17:44:53 -0400 Subject: [ale] [OT] Small, inexpensive cases or using threaded rods? In-Reply-To: <540F7113.1040402@att.net> References: <540F7113.1040402@att.net> Message-ID: If it's just for personal experimentation, threaded rod is ideal. A couple of 120mm fans for cooling and a power supply with splitters. On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 5:28 PM, Jeff Layton wrote: > Afternoon, > > Work is done so I can turn my attention to better things :) > > I'm looking at building a small cluster of 4 systems. Each > system will have just the MB, memory, processor, and > maybe an SSD or HD (no more than 2 per node). The > boards are all micro-ATX or mini-ITX and I'm not sure which > one I'm getting. I'm thinking about put each system in a > small case with a power supply but I'd like to keep the > case small. > > In looking at Newegg the smaller cases are all fairly pricey > even without power supplies ($40-$80). The MB+CPU is less > than $100 (I don't know how much memory I'll put in just > yet). Any recommendations? (BTW - the CPUs draw 25W). > > The other alternative is going the "threaded rod" route. I've > seen lots of people do this but I've never done. This would > allow me to dump the case. Maybe something like this: > > http://www.calvin.edu/~adams/research/microwulf/ > > Has anyone done this before and could give me some advice > offline? > > TIA and sorry for the interruption. > > Jeff > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdp at algoloma.com Tue Sep 9 17:53:59 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 17:53:59 -0400 Subject: [ale] [OT] Small, inexpensive cases or using threaded rods? In-Reply-To: <540F7113.1040402@att.net> References: <540F7113.1040402@att.net> Message-ID: <540F76F7.2090109@algoloma.com> A cluster for what purpose? It matters. I have a $100 system - it plays videos and serves storage, but not much else - it just doesn't have the CPU to do much else. At that price point, the compute power will be highly limited. On 09/09/2014 05:28 PM, Jeff Layton wrote: > Afternoon, > > Work is done so I can turn my attention to better things :) > > I'm looking at building a small cluster of 4 systems. Each > system will have just the MB, memory, processor, and > maybe an SSD or HD (no more than 2 per node). The > boards are all micro-ATX or mini-ITX and I'm not sure which > one I'm getting. I'm thinking about put each system in a > small case with a power supply but I'd like to keep the > case small. > > In looking at Newegg the smaller cases are all fairly pricey > even without power supplies ($40-$80). The MB+CPU is less > than $100 (I don't know how much memory I'll put in just > yet). Any recommendations? (BTW - the CPUs draw 25W). > > The other alternative is going the "threaded rod" route. I've > seen lots of people do this but I've never done. This would > allow me to dump the case. Maybe something like this: > > http://www.calvin.edu/~adams/research/microwulf/ > > Has anyone done this before and could give me some advice > offline? > > TIA and sorry for the interruption. > > Jeff > From transam at VerySecureLinux.com Tue Sep 9 20:58:51 2014 From: transam at VerySecureLinux.com (Bob Toxen) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 20:58:51 -0400 Subject: [ale] power In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140910005851.GC28741@verysecurelinux.com> I'm VERY surprised that Emory botched this. If two substations are supplying redundant power to a large facility (such as one I consulted at years ago), this should not happen! Methinks someone screwed up. Operating rooms and computerized surgery devices really should have a working UPS and automatic backup generators! If Emory can't get that right, I worry that they cant get Ebola containment right either. At home I have a $1000 Yamaha model 2400 (2000 watt) gasoline generator that drives a relay I rigged. The relay switches my office UPSes to the generator when the generator is running. I have about 7-10 minutes to start the generator on a power failure. On an extended power failure (none since the generator) it can also power either the fridge or room air conditioner or I can wire it to power my gas heater blower. I siphon gas from my cars for long outages if necessary. For lots more money and more noise an automatic whole-house generater fed from the natural gas mains can be had. Bob Toxen bob at verysecurelinux.com [Please use for email to me] http://www.verysecurelinux.com [Network&Linux security consulting] http://www.realworldlinuxsecurity.com [My book:"Real World Linux Security 2/e"] Quality Linux & UNIX security and SysAdmin & software consulting since 1990. Quality spam and virus filters. On Mon, Sep 08, 2014 at 01:20:27PM -0400, Jim Kinney wrote: > Had a power blink that hit the entire campus, hospital, everything at > Emory. Operating rooms went dark for about 10 seconds then it all came > back. > > There are at least 2 substations that power Emory. The hospital is SUPPOSED > to be power-outage proof (thus MY concerns for the ebola work!). > > What power outage gear is being used at home by ALE? At work by ALE people? > Apparently the datacenter here stayed up. But the power outage in the > operating rooms occured while surgery was ongoing including brain surgery > with a computer-controlled microscope. > > Yikes! > > -- > -- > James P. Kinney III > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. > It won't fatten the dog. > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > * > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo From hooterpincher at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 09:14:53 2014 From: hooterpincher at gmail.com (Charles Shapiro) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 09:14:53 -0400 Subject: [ale] [OT] Small, inexpensive cases or using threaded rods? In-Reply-To: <540F76F7.2090109@algoloma.com> References: <540F7113.1040402@att.net> <540F76F7.2090109@algoloma.com> Message-ID: Hmm. For design things like this, you might want to hit up Freeside Atlanta ( https://wiki.freesideatlanta.org/fs/Info ). They have a mailing list and a meetup every Tuesday. Every other Tuesday meeting is for working on current projects, but on the other ones you could discuss this with someone in person. Ther're lots of smart folks with experience in just this kind of problem out there. They also know local sources for cheap plastic sheet and threaded rod. -- CHS On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 5:53 PM, JD wrote: > A cluster for what purpose? > It matters. > > I have a $100 system - it plays videos and serves storage, but not much > else - > it just doesn't have the CPU to do much else. > > At that price point, the compute power will be highly limited. > > On 09/09/2014 05:28 PM, Jeff Layton wrote: > > Afternoon, > > > > Work is done so I can turn my attention to better things :) > > > > I'm looking at building a small cluster of 4 systems. Each > > system will have just the MB, memory, processor, and > > maybe an SSD or HD (no more than 2 per node). The > > boards are all micro-ATX or mini-ITX and I'm not sure which > > one I'm getting. I'm thinking about put each system in a > > small case with a power supply but I'd like to keep the > > case small. > > > > In looking at Newegg the smaller cases are all fairly pricey > > even without power supplies ($40-$80). The MB+CPU is less > > than $100 (I don't know how much memory I'll put in just > > yet). Any recommendations? (BTW - the CPUs draw 25W). > > > > The other alternative is going the "threaded rod" route. I've > > seen lots of people do this but I've never done. This would > > allow me to dump the case. Maybe something like this: > > > > http://www.calvin.edu/~adams/research/microwulf/ > > > > Has anyone done this before and could give me some advice > > offline? > > > > TIA and sorry for the interruption. > > > > Jeff > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From laytonjb at att.net Wed Sep 10 10:13:41 2014 From: laytonjb at att.net (Jeff Layton) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 10:13:41 -0400 Subject: [ale] [OT] Small, inexpensive cases or using threaded rods? In-Reply-To: References: <540F7113.1040402@att.net> <540F76F7.2090109@algoloma.com> Message-ID: <54105C95.4070802@att.net> Thanks Charles! To circle back to the questions, the cluster is for basic HPC type applications. I know the performance won't be good but I'm more interested in developing and testing HPC tools and just making sure some apps that I write scale reasonably well. Also, I'll be using the systems for a quick and dirty Lustre system to test out some tools I want to develop for monitoring Lustre. Thanks for the tips everyone! Jeff > Hmm. For design things like this, you might want to hit up Freeside > Atlanta ( https://wiki.freesideatlanta.org/fs/Info ). They have a mailing > list and a meetup every Tuesday. Every other Tuesday meeting is for working > on current projects, but on the other ones you could discuss this with > someone in person. Ther're lots of smart folks with experience in just this > kind of problem out there. They also know local sources for cheap plastic > sheet and threaded rod. > > -- CHS > > > On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 5:53 PM, JD wrote: > >> A cluster for what purpose? >> It matters. >> >> I have a $100 system - it plays videos and serves storage, but not much >> else - >> it just doesn't have the CPU to do much else. >> >> At that price point, the compute power will be highly limited. >> >> On 09/09/2014 05:28 PM, Jeff Layton wrote: >>> Afternoon, >>> >>> Work is done so I can turn my attention to better things :) >>> >>> I'm looking at building a small cluster of 4 systems. Each >>> system will have just the MB, memory, processor, and >>> maybe an SSD or HD (no more than 2 per node). The >>> boards are all micro-ATX or mini-ITX and I'm not sure which >>> one I'm getting. I'm thinking about put each system in a >>> small case with a power supply but I'd like to keep the >>> case small. >>> >>> In looking at Newegg the smaller cases are all fairly pricey >>> even without power supplies ($40-$80). The MB+CPU is less >>> than $100 (I don't know how much memory I'll put in just >>> yet). Any recommendations? (BTW - the CPUs draw 25W). >>> >>> The other alternative is going the "threaded rod" route. I've >>> seen lots of people do this but I've never done. This would >>> allow me to dump the case. Maybe something like this: >>> >>> http://www.calvin.edu/~adams/research/microwulf/ >>> >>> Has anyone done this before and could give me some advice >>> offline? >>> >>> TIA and sorry for the interruption. >>> >>> Jeff >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > From oloryn at benshome.net Wed Sep 10 12:59:58 2014 From: oloryn at benshome.net (Ben Coleman) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 12:59:58 -0400 Subject: [ale] [OT] Small, inexpensive cases or using threaded rods? In-Reply-To: <540F7113.1040402@att.net> References: <540F7113.1040402@att.net> Message-ID: <5410838E.1090506@benshome.net> On 9/9/2014 17:28, Jeff Layton wrote: > The other alternative is going the "threaded rod" route. I've > seen lots of people do this but I've never done. This would > allow me to dump the case. Maybe something like this: > > http://www.calvin.edu/~adams/research/microwulf/ I look at that and think "RFI out the wazoo". The FAQ says that they aren't making it a commercial product, which is just as well, as it would never pass FCC Class B certification (or Class A, for that matter) Ben -- Ben Coleman oloryn at benshome.net | For the wise man, doing right trumps http://oloryn.benshome.net/ | looking right. For the fool, looking Amateur Radio NJ8J | right trumps doing right. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 196 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 13:29:13 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 13:29:13 -0400 Subject: [ale] [OT] Small, inexpensive cases or using threaded rods? In-Reply-To: <5410838E.1090506@benshome.net> References: <540F7113.1040402@att.net> <5410838E.1090506@benshome.net> Message-ID: Ha! Google servers were open top and they interfered with each other :-) On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Ben Coleman wrote: > On 9/9/2014 17:28, Jeff Layton wrote: > > The other alternative is going the "threaded rod" route. I've > > seen lots of people do this but I've never done. This would > > allow me to dump the case. Maybe something like this: > > > > http://www.calvin.edu/~adams/research/microwulf/ > > I look at that and think "RFI out the wazoo". The FAQ says that they > aren't making it a commercial product, which is just as well, as it > would never pass FCC Class B certification (or Class A, for that matter) > > Ben > -- > Ben Coleman oloryn at benshome.net | For the wise man, doing right trumps > http://oloryn.benshome.net/ | looking right. For the fool, looking > Amateur Radio NJ8J | right trumps doing right. > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: signature.asc > Type: application/pgp-signature > Size: 196 bytes > Desc: OpenPGP digital signature > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140910/8c7fd287/attachment.sig > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pbcartwright at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 14:39:44 2014 From: pbcartwright at gmail.com (Paul Cartwright) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 14:39:44 -0400 Subject: [ale] kmail mail folders Message-ID: <54109AF0.2030909@gmail.com> my google-foo has left me.. I am looking for where kmail keeps its MAIL folders, not config files.. I decided to try kmail again, and made the mistake of importing my entire thunderbird email , settings, filters, and mail. it added 10 GB to my /home, but I can't find WHERE they went! -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 From rb211 at tds.net Wed Sep 10 14:51:25 2014 From: rb211 at tds.net (William Bagwell) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 14:51:25 -0400 Subject: [ale] kmail mail folders In-Reply-To: <54109AF0.2030909@gmail.com> References: <54109AF0.2030909@gmail.com> Message-ID: <201409101451.25640.rb211@tds.net> Mine are in /home/me/.Mail. So are a hidden file. Eeek, 6 GB here! No wonder my 12 GB /home keeps filling up... William On Wednesday 10 September 2014, Paul Cartwright wrote: > my google-foo has left me.. I am looking for where kmail keeps its MAIL > folders, not config files.. I decided to try kmail again, and made the > mistake of importing my entire thunderbird email , settings, filters, > and mail. it added 10 GB to my /home, but I can't find WHERE they went! From pbcartwright at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 15:03:14 2014 From: pbcartwright at gmail.com (Paul Cartwright) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 15:03:14 -0400 Subject: [ale] kmail mail folders In-Reply-To: <201409101451.25640.rb211@tds.net> References: <54109AF0.2030909@gmail.com> <201409101451.25640.rb211@tds.net> Message-ID: <5410A072.3060104@gmail.com> On 09/10/2014 02:51 PM, William Bagwell wrote: > Mine are in /home/me/.Mail. So are a hidden file. > > Eeek, 6 GB here! No wonder my 12 GB /home keeps filling up... > > William > > On Wednesday 10 September 2014, Paul Cartwright wrote: >> my google-foo has left me.. I am looking for where kmail keeps its MAIL >> folders, not config files.. I decided to try kmail again, and made the >> mistake of importing my entire thunderbird email , settings, filters, >> and mail. it added 10 GB to my /home, but I can't find WHERE they went! >> I don't have a .Mail folder.. I have looked ij ,kde .kde4 ... I found some of them, I think.. /.local/share/local-mail/.Imported.directory/.Thunderbird-Import.directory/.Archive.directory/2012/new/ there was a folder for 2010-2014.. running openSUSE & KDE ( whatever version KDE is now..) -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 From jdp at algoloma.com Thu Sep 11 16:38:36 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 16:38:36 -0400 Subject: [ale] [ANNC] ALE-NW Meeting Thursday 9/11 @ 730p In-Reply-To: <540CEA64.8090802@algoloma.com> References: <540CD6F2.5080001@algoloma.com> <540CEA64.8090802@algoloma.com> Message-ID: <5412084C.8030603@algoloma.com> Last minute friendly reminder of the meeting tonight. Hope to see you there at 7:30p! Directions: http://ale.org/?page_id=506 -jd On 09/07/2014 07:29 PM, JD wrote: > > Topic: Tip Your Server, Please > Date: 9/11 @ 7:30p - 9:30p-ish > Where: SPSU J-266 > Full Invitation: http://ale.org/?p=546 > > ================= > Abstract: > Pre-install server decisions, show a live server install and go through my first > 5 minutes on a new server where the base packages and based line security are > set for the system. > > I hope to see you there! > > =================================== > ALE-NW meets the 2nd Thursday of the month at the SPSU campus. > Please mark this on your calendar as a reoccurring meeting. > > The group usually adjourns to the Marietta Diner after the meeting. > =================================== > > For a campus map and a link to directions please see > > or visit the ALE-NW webpage page at > for information links from prior > meetings. > > Learn more about the GA-400 Linux Group: > http://www.meetup.com/GA-400-Linux-Group/ We informally meet most Sundays to > discuss Linux. > > Free parking after 7pm in non-reserved spaces in the P60 deck is best. If you > park before that time, you may get a ticket, boot, or towed. > Building J, the Atrium building, is a short distance east of the parking deck. > ====== > ALE-NW at SPSU meetings are open events and we hope you will join us! We generally > meet on the 2nd Thursday of the month, but always watch the ale.org email list > for specifics. Also remember that topic suggestions and presentation offers the > meetings can be emailed to [ jdp (at) algoloma (dot) com] or [griggs (dot) andy > (at) gmail (dot) com] > > ====== > The group has asked for these topics: > Tentative Fall 2014 Schedule: > * 9/20 - *InstallFest* - Saturday 10am-5pm > * 10/9 - Linux Security > * 11/13 - Linux Virtualization > * 12/11 - Solstice / GPG Keysigning > From questy at gmail.com Thu Sep 11 17:01:21 2014 From: questy at gmail.com (Jerald Sheets) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 17:01:21 -0400 Subject: [ale] Tonight! Message-ID: <7D97859F-6F3A-4B63-AC5E-9BA84632B27A@gmail.com> Just wanted to let you all know it?s that time again! The Puppet User?s Group is meeting at the Shadow-Soft offices tonight @ 6:30PM. The topic will be: ?Deploying Docker Containers with Puppet?. We?re at: Shadow-Soft 8302 Dunwoody Place, Suite 100 Atlanta, GA and would love to have you there! Jerald Sheets -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 496 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: From jeremy.bouse at UnderGrid.net Thu Sep 11 18:08:04 2014 From: jeremy.bouse at UnderGrid.net (Jeremy T. Bouse) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 18:08:04 -0400 Subject: [ale] Tonight! Message-ID: On 11.09.2014 17:01, Jerald Sheets wrote: > Just wanted to let you all know it?s that time again! The Puppet > User?s Group is meeting at the Shadow-Soft offices tonight @ 6:30PM. > The topic will be: ?Deploying Docker Containers with Puppet?. > > We?re at: > Shadow-Soft > 8302 Dunwoody Place, Suite 100 > Atlanta, GA > > and would love to have you there! > > > Jerald Sheets > I actually had really wanted to attend this meeting but unfortunately had prior appointments I couldn't get out of or reschedule. From jdp at algoloma.com Thu Sep 11 18:27:32 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 18:27:32 -0400 Subject: [ale] Tonight! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <541221D4.80903@algoloma.com> I'd be there too ... er ... but also have a prior engagement. ;) Thursdays are very busy nights for Linux people. On 09/11/2014 06:08 PM, Jeremy T. Bouse wrote: > On 11.09.2014 17:01, Jerald Sheets wrote: >> Just wanted to let you all know it?s that time again! The Puppet >> User?s Group is meeting at the Shadow-Soft offices tonight @ 6:30PM. >> The topic will be: ?Deploying Docker Containers with Puppet?. >> >> We?re at: >> Shadow-Soft >> 8302 Dunwoody Place, Suite 100 >> Atlanta, GA >> >> and would love to have you there! >> >> >> Jerald Sheets >> > > I actually had really wanted to attend this meeting but unfortunately had prior > appointments I couldn't get out of or reschedule. From savithari at gmail.com Thu Sep 11 21:06:45 2014 From: savithari at gmail.com (Narahari 'n' Savitha) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 21:06:45 -0400 Subject: [ale] OpenSuse 13.1 and dual boot help Message-ID: Friends: I have finally decided to part ways with Ubuntu and go the route of OpenSuse 13.1 (not sure of XFCE vs enlightenment). I already have a disk with XP on it and it works well. How do I configure OpenSUSE to allow me to dual boot ? -Narahari -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From savithari at gmail.com Thu Sep 11 21:08:10 2014 From: savithari at gmail.com (Narahari 'n' Savitha) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 21:08:10 -0400 Subject: [ale] Tonight! In-Reply-To: <541221D4.80903@algoloma.com> References: <541221D4.80903@algoloma.com> Message-ID: Can you please share the ppt or pdf if any ? If you have hangout recording of the event it is even better. Please let me know. Regards, -Narahari On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 6:27 PM, JD wrote: > I'd be there too ... er ... but also have a prior engagement. ;) > > Thursdays are very busy nights for Linux people. > > On 09/11/2014 06:08 PM, Jeremy T. Bouse wrote: > > On 11.09.2014 17:01, Jerald Sheets wrote: > >> Just wanted to let you all know it?s that time again! The Puppet > >> User?s Group is meeting at the Shadow-Soft offices tonight @ 6:30PM. > >> The topic will be: ?Deploying Docker Containers with Puppet?. > >> > >> We?re at: > >> Shadow-Soft > >> 8302 Dunwoody Place, Suite 100 > >> Atlanta, GA > >> > >> and would love to have you there! > >> > >> > >> Jerald Sheets > >> > > > > I actually had really wanted to attend this meeting but unfortunately > had prior > > appointments I couldn't get out of or reschedule. > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From savithari at gmail.com Thu Sep 11 21:10:36 2014 From: savithari at gmail.com (Narahari 'n' Savitha) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 21:10:36 -0400 Subject: [ale] Please Help ALE-NW Installfest Saturday 9/20 In-Reply-To: References: <540F0B66.3020506@algoloma.com> Message-ID: You might have addressed this but how does this work ? I have been on the consumer side as in getting help. I can install, Ubuntu, OpenSUSE, I can do some hardware troubleshooting but not an expert but I want to help. -Narahari On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 10:21 AM, Evan Banyash wrote: > Yeah, I go to spsu, know how to install various Linux distros and am free > that day. I can be there for sure. I wake up late on weekends so I'd > probably be there at like 1 pm. > On Sep 9, 2014 10:16 AM, "JD" wrote: > > > H E L P !!! > > > > The installfest is just 11 days away! > > > > Still need volunteers to help during different times of the day. > > > > If you can help for 2-3 hrs any time Saturday 9/20, that would be a huge > > help. > > > > Date: Saturday 9/20 > > Starts: 10am > > Ends: 5pm > > Location: SPSU Atrium bldg - room J-266 > > Directions: http://ale.org/?page_id=506 > > Parking: Free parking > > > > > > This is in the same room as all our meetings scheduled for this fall, > > J-266. It > > is a nice, big, classroom with tables. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140909/3b73e6c4/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com Thu Sep 11 21:33:08 2014 From: James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com (James Taylor) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 21:33:08 -0400 Subject: [ale] OpenSuse 13.1 and dual boot help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <541215140200007500050D6D@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> If you install openSUSE over an XP load, it will set that up by default. -jt James Taylor 678-697-9420 james.taylor at eastcobbgroup.com >>> "Narahari 'n' Savitha" 9/11/2014 9:06 PM >>> Friends: I have finally decided to part ways with Ubuntu and go the route of OpenSuse 13.1 (not sure of XFCE vs enlightenment). I already have a disk with XP on it and it works well. How do I configure OpenSUSE to allow me to dual boot ? -Narahari -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo If this is an unsolicited spam message, please click this link to report it: http://control.eastcobbgroup.com:49285/contents/spamreport.shtml?rptid=56979&srvid=16vl15t From jeremy.bouse at UnderGrid.net Thu Sep 11 21:54:06 2014 From: jeremy.bouse at UnderGrid.net (Jeremy T. Bouse) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 21:54:06 -0400 Subject: [ale] Tonight! In-Reply-To: <541221D4.80903@algoloma.com> References: <541221D4.80903@algoloma.com> Message-ID: On 11.09.2014 18:27, JD wrote: > I'd be there too ... er ... but also have a prior engagement. ;) > > Thursdays are very busy nights for Linux people. > Tell me about it... DevOpsATL, SE Puppet Users & ALE are always on Thursdays so I have to pick and choose. From savithari at gmail.com Thu Sep 11 21:58:18 2014 From: savithari at gmail.com (Narahari 'n' Savitha) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 21:58:18 -0400 Subject: [ale] OpenSuse 13.1 and dual boot help In-Reply-To: <541215140200007500050D6D@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> References: <541215140200007500050D6D@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> Message-ID: XP is on disk2. So you are suggesting that I install on disk1 when disk2 is still connected and then during install openSuse will auto detect the XP install and add it to the boot list ? Is that a fair understanding ? -Narahari On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 9:33 PM, James Taylor < James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com> wrote: > If you install openSUSE over an XP load, it will set that up by default. > -jt > > > > James Taylor > 678-697-9420 > james.taylor at eastcobbgroup.com > > > > >>> "Narahari 'n' Savitha" 9/11/2014 9:06 PM >>> > Friends: > > I have finally decided to part ways with Ubuntu and go the route of > OpenSuse 13.1 (not sure of XFCE vs enlightenment). > I already have a disk with XP on it and it works well. > > How do I configure OpenSUSE to allow me to dual boot ? > > -Narahari > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140911/0ce0c645/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > If this is an unsolicited spam message, please click this link to report > it: > http://control.eastcobbgroup.com:49285/contents/spamreport.shtml?rptid=56979&srvid=16vl15t > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bugyatl at gmail.com Thu Sep 11 22:02:03 2014 From: bugyatl at gmail.com (Boris Borisov) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 22:02:03 -0400 Subject: [ale] OpenSuse 13.1 and dual boot help In-Reply-To: References: <541215140200007500050D6D@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> Message-ID: Exactly. Linux must detect presence of XP. On Sep 11, 2014 10:00 PM, "Narahari 'n' Savitha" wrote: > XP is on disk2. So you are suggesting that I install on disk1 when disk2 > is still connected and then during install openSuse will auto detect the XP > install and add it to the boot list ? > > Is that a fair understanding ? > > -Narahari > > On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 9:33 PM, James Taylor < > James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com> wrote: > > > If you install openSUSE over an XP load, it will set that up by default. > > -jt > > > > > > > > James Taylor > > 678-697-9420 > > james.taylor at eastcobbgroup.com > > > > > > > > >>> "Narahari 'n' Savitha" 9/11/2014 9:06 PM >>> > > Friends: > > > > I have finally decided to part ways with Ubuntu and go the route of > > OpenSuse 13.1 (not sure of XFCE vs enlightenment). > > I already have a disk with XP on it and it works well. > > > > How do I configure OpenSUSE to allow me to dual boot ? > > > > -Narahari > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > > > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140911/0ce0c645/attachment.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > > > If this is an unsolicited spam message, please click this link to report > > it: > > > http://control.eastcobbgroup.com:49285/contents/spamreport.shtml?rptid=56979&srvid=16vl15t > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140911/a4b010b4/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdp at algoloma.com Thu Sep 11 23:38:50 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 23:38:50 -0400 Subject: [ale] Tonight! In-Reply-To: References: <541221D4.80903@algoloma.com> Message-ID: <54126ACA.7080003@algoloma.com> On 09/11/2014 09:54 PM, Jeremy T. Bouse wrote: > On 11.09.2014 18:27, JD wrote: >> I'd be there too ... er ... but also have a prior engagement. ;) >> >> Thursdays are very busy nights for Linux people. >> > > Tell me about it... DevOpsATL, SE Puppet Users & ALE are always on Thursdays so > I have to pick and choose. But, but , but ALE is older than those other groups and neither ALE venue requires paid parking! From jdp at algoloma.com Fri Sep 12 00:07:43 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 00:07:43 -0400 Subject: [ale] Please Help ALE-NW Installfest Saturday 9/20 In-Reply-To: References: <540F0B66.3020506@algoloma.com> Message-ID: <5412718F.1070406@algoloma.com> Volunteers show up when they can - we are short on morning volunteers right now - 10am-1p, so that would be the most helpful. The level of expertise isn't THAT important - we will have a group with wide experienced, so nobody needs to be an expert on everything. We guide the computer owner as THEY DO THE INSTALL. That is the key. It is their PC/laptop and we really want the owner to have the install experience. Come when you can, help with what you can, leave when you need to. People with a smile are just as important as gurus on UEFI. Bring your kids! On 09/11/2014 09:10 PM, Narahari 'n' Savitha wrote: > You might have addressed this but how does this work ? I have been on the > consumer side as in getting help. I can install, Ubuntu, OpenSUSE, I can > do some hardware troubleshooting but not an expert but I want to help. > > -Narahari > > On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 10:21 AM, Evan Banyash wrote: > >> Yeah, I go to spsu, know how to install various Linux distros and am free >> that day. I can be there for sure. I wake up late on weekends so I'd >> probably be there at like 1 pm. >> On Sep 9, 2014 10:16 AM, "JD" wrote: >> >>> H E L P !!! >>> >>> The installfest is just 11 days away! >>> >>> Still need volunteers to help during different times of the day. >>> >>> If you can help for 2-3 hrs any time Saturday 9/20, that would be a huge >>> help. >>> >>> Date: Saturday 9/20 >>> Starts: 10am >>> Ends: 5pm >>> Location: SPSU Atrium bldg - room J-266 >>> Directions: http://ale.org/?page_id=506 >>> Parking: Free parking >>> >>> >>> This is in the same room as all our meetings scheduled for this fall, >>> J-266. It >>> is a nice, big, classroom with tables. >>> From pbcartwright at gmail.com Fri Sep 12 06:18:37 2014 From: pbcartwright at gmail.com (Paul Cartwright) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 06:18:37 -0400 Subject: [ale] OpenSuse 13.1 and dual boot help In-Reply-To: References: <541215140200007500050D6D@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> Message-ID: <5412C87D.7090909@gmail.com> On 09/11/2014 09:58 PM, Narahari 'n' Savitha wrote: > XP is on disk2. So you are suggesting that I install on disk1 when disk2 > is still connected and then during install openSuse will auto detect the XP > install and add it to the boot list ? > > Is that a fair understanding ? > > I have 2 disks, with XP installed on disk 1, and 2 distros of linux installed on disk 2. the grub menu includes both linux distros & XP.. grub goes through all existing disks to look for bootable OSes.. I just installed openSUSE 13.1, I also have fedora 20, and XP.. haven't booted XP in a few weeks, I used to try to keep up with updates, but not so much anymore. -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 From jdp at algoloma.com Fri Sep 12 08:57:30 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 08:57:30 -0400 Subject: [ale] OpenSuse 13.1 and dual boot help In-Reply-To: <5412C87D.7090909@gmail.com> References: <541215140200007500050D6D@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> <5412C87D.7090909@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5412EDBA.4020001@algoloma.com> On 09/12/2014 06:18 AM, Paul Cartwright wrote: > I used to try to keep up with updates, but not > so much anymore. That is just funny. There aren't ANY updates for XP. From bugyatl at gmail.com Fri Sep 12 09:16:59 2014 From: bugyatl at gmail.com (Boris Borisov) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 09:16:59 -0400 Subject: [ale] OpenSuse 13.1 and dual boot help In-Reply-To: <5412EDBA.4020001@algoloma.com> References: <541215140200007500050D6D@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> <5412C87D.7090909@gmail.com> <5412EDBA.4020001@algoloma.com> Message-ID: If you haven't update since your install :) I did that on my EEEPC semi broken netbook that I'm using for media box. I turn off autoupdates to keep me slim and CPU free. On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 8:57 AM, JD wrote: > On 09/12/2014 06:18 AM, Paul Cartwright wrote: > > I used to try to keep up with updates, but not > > so much anymore. > > > That is just funny. There aren't ANY updates for XP. > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Fri Sep 12 11:16:43 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 11:16:43 -0400 Subject: [ale] possible remote meeting tool Message-ID: https://jitsi.org/Projects/JitsiMeet I have NOT used this so any feedback is appreciated. -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From splante at insightsys.com Fri Sep 12 11:28:18 2014 From: splante at insightsys.com (Scott Plante) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 11:28:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [ale] possible remote meeting tool In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1439411879.1733.1410535698360.JavaMail.root@insightsys.com> Oh wow, I've been using Jitsi for years as a chat client and SIP audio softphone. I had no idea they now have a conference bridge! I'm glad you posted this. Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Kinney" To: "Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts - Yes! We run Linux!" Sent: Friday, September 12, 2014 11:16:43 AM Subject: [ale] possible remote meeting tool https://jitsi.org/Projects/JitsiMeet I have NOT used this so any feedback is appreciated. -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com Fri Sep 12 16:04:20 2014 From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Chris Fowler) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 16:04:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [ale] Wireless multiple connections In-Reply-To: <895033663.3150065.1410552134818.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> Message-ID: <935777516.3150592.1410552260483.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> I've spent some time creating Onion Pi on Beagle Bone Black. I have it working well with 3 modes of operation. 1. AP 2. Tor 3. VPN to UK. 3 was a doozy. I turned on a cloud server in a London data center then created a VPN between. I'm working on adding an interface to the BBB DIO to switch modes via switch. Currently I'm using a TP-Link nano router on eth0 to link the BBB to my home network. I would like to do what other devices do and create a WISP type connection using the same USB wireless dongle that is being run in managed mode. I found this http://wireless.kernel.org/en/users/Documentation/iw/vif/ Is this possible? My other option is adding another USB wireless adapter and having that connect back to the home network. Chris -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com Fri Sep 12 16:29:09 2014 From: James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com (James Taylor) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 16:29:09 -0400 Subject: [ale] Wireless multiple connections In-Reply-To: <935777516.3150592.1410552260483.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> References: <895033663.3150065.1410552134818.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> <935777516.3150592.1410552260483.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> Message-ID: <54131F550200007500050E3C@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> You've got some many TLA's in here that all I can say is WTF... -jt James Taylor 678-697-9420 james.taylor at eastcobbgroup.com >>> Chris Fowler 9/12/2014 4:04 PM >>> I've spent some time creating Onion Pi on Beagle Bone Black. I have it working well with 3 modes of operation. 1. AP 2. Tor 3. VPN to UK. 3 was a doozy. I turned on a cloud server in a London data center then created a VPN between. I'm working on adding an interface to the BBB DIO to switch modes via switch. Currently I'm using a TP-Link nano router on eth0 to link the BBB to my home network. I would like to do what other devices do and create a WISP type connection using the same USB wireless dongle that is being run in managed mode. I found this http://wireless.kernel.org/en/users/Documentation/iw/vif/ Is this possible? My other option is adding another USB wireless adapter and having that connect back to the home network. Chris -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo If this is an unsolicited spam message, please click this link to report it: http://control.eastcobbgroup.com:49285/contents/spamreport.shtml?rptid=57042&srvid=16vl15t From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com Fri Sep 12 16:45:18 2014 From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Chris Fowler) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 16:45:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [ale] Wireless multiple connections In-Reply-To: <54131F550200007500050E3C@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> References: <895033663.3150065.1410552134818.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> <935777516.3150592.1410552260483.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> <54131F550200007500050E3C@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> Message-ID: <2129240844.3156459.1410554718807.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Taylor" > To: "Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts" > Sent: Friday, September 12, 2014 4:29:09 PM > Subject: Re: [ale] Wireless multiple connections > You've got some many TLA's in here that all I can say is WTF... > -jt I'll simplify it. I want my Beagle Bone Black that is using an RTL8192/8188CUS USB dongle in AP mode to use the same dongle to connect to my home network. Typically nano routers call this WISP mode. The managed side of the dongle runs DHCP to the clients. The client side to the home network will run ip masquerading. I'm not sure I can do that with the 8192. Hopefully someone else has. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bugyatl at gmail.com Fri Sep 12 17:03:06 2014 From: bugyatl at gmail.com (Boris Borisov) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 17:03:06 -0400 Subject: [ale] Wireless multiple connections In-Reply-To: <2129240844.3156459.1410554718807.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> References: <895033663.3150065.1410552134818.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> <935777516.3150592.1410552260483.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> <54131F550200007500050E3C@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> <2129240844.3156459.1410554718807.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> Message-ID: I'll put second dongle to make sure nothing get messed up. But that's me .... On Friday, September 12, 2014, Chris Fowler wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "James Taylor" > > > To: "Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts" > > > Sent: Friday, September 12, 2014 4:29:09 PM > > Subject: Re: [ale] Wireless multiple connections > > > You've got some many TLA's in here that all I can say is WTF... > > -jt > > I'll simplify it. > > I want my Beagle Bone Black that is using an RTL8192/8188CUS USB dongle in > AP mode to use the > same dongle to connect to my home network. > > Typically nano routers call this WISP mode. The managed side of the dongle > runs DHCP to the clients. The client side to > the home network will run ip masquerading. > > I'm not sure I can do that with the 8192. Hopefully someone else has. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140912/74c78e71/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- Sent from Gmail Mobile -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bugyatl at gmail.com Fri Sep 12 17:06:09 2014 From: bugyatl at gmail.com (Boris Borisov) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 17:06:09 -0400 Subject: [ale] Wireless multiple connections In-Reply-To: References: <895033663.3150065.1410552134818.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> <935777516.3150592.1410552260483.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> <54131F550200007500050E3C@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> <2129240844.3156459.1410554718807.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> Message-ID: But on other hand it is good project to try ... On Friday, September 12, 2014, Boris Borisov wrote: > I'll put second dongle to make sure nothing get messed up. But that's me > .... > > On Friday, September 12, 2014, Chris Fowler > wrote: > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> > From: "James Taylor" >> > To: "Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts" >> > Sent: Friday, September 12, 2014 4:29:09 PM >> > Subject: Re: [ale] Wireless multiple connections >> >> > You've got some many TLA's in here that all I can say is WTF... >> > -jt >> >> I'll simplify it. >> >> I want my Beagle Bone Black that is using an RTL8192/8188CUS USB dongle >> in AP mode to use the >> same dongle to connect to my home network. >> >> Typically nano routers call this WISP mode. The managed side of the >> dongle runs DHCP to the clients. The client side to >> the home network will run ip masquerading. >> >> I'm not sure I can do that with the 8192. Hopefully someone else has. >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: < >> http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140912/74c78e71/attachment.html >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> > > > -- > Sent from Gmail Mobile > -- Sent from Gmail Mobile -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jkinney at jimkinney.us Fri Sep 12 19:25:46 2014 From: jkinney at jimkinney.us (Jim Kinney) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 19:25:46 -0400 Subject: [ale] possible remote meeting tool In-Reply-To: <1439411879.1733.1410535698360.JavaMail.root@insightsys.com> References: <1439411879.1733.1410535698360.JavaMail.root@insightsys.com> Message-ID: I'm thinking of jitsu as a way to live broadcast meetings. Maybe. On September 12, 2014 11:28:18 AM EDT, Scott Plante wrote: > >Oh wow, I've been using Jitsi for years as a chat client and SIP audio >softphone. I had no idea they now have a conference bridge! I'm glad >you posted this. > > >Scott > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Jim Kinney" >To: "Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts - Yes! We run Linux!" >Sent: Friday, September 12, 2014 11:16:43 AM >Subject: [ale] possible remote meeting tool > >https://jitsi.org/Projects/JitsiMeet > >I have NOT used this so any feedback is appreciated. > >-- >-- >James P. Kinney III > >Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you >gain >at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own >tail. >It won't fatten the dog. >- Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > >*http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ >* >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: > > >_______________________________________________ >Ale mailing list >Ale at ale.org >http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: > >_______________________________________________ >Ale mailing list >Ale at ale.org >http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -- Jim Kinney Linux Systems Analyst Physicist/Brewer http://jimkinney.us -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com Sat Sep 13 09:42:20 2014 From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Chris Fowler) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2014 09:42:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [ale] debian network manager In-Reply-To: <1689883819.3183672.1410615491710.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> Message-ID: <1446925176.3183925.1410615740642.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> I wasted so much time with my Beagle Bone Black trying to configure eth0 as static. I've been working on a way to convert operating modes, but it just refuses to stop running dhclient on eth0. In AP mode eth0 is dhcp. In bridge mode I need eth0 to not be dhcp so that br0 can. I've tried doing everything manually, but that did not work. I tried copying a specific interfaces file to /etc/network/interfaces and that did not work. I tried assigning an arbitrary address to eth0 and then running dhcp on br0, but that causes problems. I don't actually see NetworkManager on this system so something else is acting stupid. I need to boot and then determine our operating mode. AP, Bridge, Tor, Tunnel to UK, etc. I then need to apply settings. I think the best thing for me to do is write my own /etc/init.d/networking script. Right now I'm rebooting between mode changes, but I will work it out so that a reboot is not required. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bugyatl at gmail.com Sat Sep 13 11:54:02 2014 From: bugyatl at gmail.com (Boris Borisov) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2014 11:54:02 -0400 Subject: [ale] debian network manager In-Reply-To: <1446925176.3183925.1410615740642.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> References: <1689883819.3183672.1410615491710.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> <1446925176.3183925.1410615740642.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> Message-ID: Is the your Linux distribution Debian based or custom ? On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 9:42 AM, Chris Fowler wrote: > I wasted so much time with my Beagle Bone Black trying to configure eth0 > as static. > > I've been working on a way to convert operating modes, but it just refuses > to stop running dhclient on eth0. > > In AP mode eth0 is dhcp. In bridge mode I need eth0 to not be dhcp so that > br0 can. I've tried doing everything manually, but that did not work. > I tried copying a specific interfaces file to /etc/network/interfaces and > that did not work. I tried assigning an arbitrary address to eth0 and then > running dhcp on br0, but that causes problems. I don't actually see > NetworkManager on this system so something else is acting stupid. > > I need to boot and then determine our operating mode. AP, Bridge, Tor, > Tunnel to UK, etc. I then need to apply settings. I think the > best thing for me to do is write my own /etc/init.d/networking script. > Right now I'm rebooting between mode changes, but I will work it out so > that a reboot is not required. > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140913/d19272f4/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ale_nospam at fayettedigital.com Sun Sep 14 10:11:12 2014 From: ale_nospam at fayettedigital.com (Jim Lynch) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 10:11:12 -0400 Subject: [ale] debian network manager In-Reply-To: <1446925176.3183925.1410615740642.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> References: <1446925176.3183925.1410615740642.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> Message-ID: <5415A200.2030603@fayettedigital.com> On 09/13/2014 09:42 AM, Chris Fowler wrote: > I wasted so much time with my Beagle Bone Black trying to configure eth0 as static. Does your router support fixing an IP address based on a mac address? That's how I have a number of machines configured since I've had trouble with later Ubuntu network configurations not working well with static configs. Jim. From jdp at algoloma.com Sun Sep 14 10:29:55 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 10:29:55 -0400 Subject: [ale] debian network manager In-Reply-To: <5415A200.2030603@fayettedigital.com> References: <1446925176.3183925.1410615740642.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> <5415A200.2030603@fayettedigital.com> Message-ID: <5415A663.7090200@algoloma.com> On 09/14/2014 10:11 AM, Jim Lynch wrote: > On 09/13/2014 09:42 AM, Chris Fowler wrote: >> I wasted so much time with my Beagle Bone Black trying to configure eth0 as >> static. > Does your router support fixing an IP address based on a mac address? That's > how I have a number of machines configured since I've had trouble with later > Ubuntu network configurations not working well with static configs. > This is also called "dhcp reservations" - great for portable devices. From bugyatl at gmail.com Sun Sep 14 10:31:24 2014 From: bugyatl at gmail.com (Boris Borisov) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 10:31:24 -0400 Subject: [ale] debian network manager In-Reply-To: <5415A200.2030603@fayettedigital.com> References: <1446925176.3183925.1410615740642.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> <5415A200.2030603@fayettedigital.com> Message-ID: Since all this devices are not general purpose I think they should not follow main stream Linux init system. Flat init files would do it. Even loading a driver should be in the hands of the admin not demon. On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 10:11 AM, Jim Lynch wrote: > On 09/13/2014 09:42 AM, Chris Fowler wrote: > >> I wasted so much time with my Beagle Bone Black trying to configure eth0 >> as static. >> > Does your router support fixing an IP address based on a mac address? > That's how I have a number of machines configured since I've had trouble > with later Ubuntu network configurations not working well with static > configs. > > Jim. > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From neal at mnopltd.com Sun Sep 14 19:41:20 2014 From: neal at mnopltd.com (Neal Rhodes) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 19:41:20 -0400 Subject: [ale] If there a neat way of peeling apart bash variable by delimters? Message-ID: <1410738080.3722.321.camel@t4.mnopltd.com> If in a shell script, you have a variable loaded with a character value, and there is a delimiter, and you want to peel it apart by that delimiter, is there a built-in expression to do that? Here's what I'm doing, and I'm thinking there should be a better way. FULLNAME=$1 #eg: CustomerEntry.CreditLimit DOT=`expr index $FULLNAME .` DOTM1=`expr $DOT - 1` TABLE=${FULLNAME:0:$DOTM1} FIELD=${FULLNAME:$DOT:40} Neal Rhodes President, MNOP Ltd Lilburn, GA 770-972-5430 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdp at algoloma.com Sun Sep 14 21:23:28 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 21:23:28 -0400 Subject: [ale] If there a neat way of peeling apart bash variable by delimters? In-Reply-To: <1410738080.3722.321.camel@t4.mnopltd.com> References: <1410738080.3722.321.camel@t4.mnopltd.com> Message-ID: <54163F90.2020502@algoloma.com> http://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/internalvariables.html the $IFS is what you want, I think. On 09/14/2014 07:41 PM, Neal Rhodes wrote: > If in a shell script, you have a variable loaded with a character value, > and there is a delimiter, and you want to peel it apart by that > delimiter, is there a built-in expression to do that? > > Here's what I'm doing, and I'm thinking there should be a better way. > > FULLNAME=$1 #eg: > CustomerEntry.CreditLimit > DOT=`expr index $FULLNAME .` > DOTM1=`expr $DOT - 1` > TABLE=${FULLNAME:0:$DOTM1} > FIELD=${FULLNAME:$DOT:40} > From mhw at WittsEnd.com Sun Sep 14 21:38:41 2014 From: mhw at WittsEnd.com (Michael H. Warfield) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 21:38:41 -0400 Subject: [ale] If there a neat way of peeling apart bash variable by delimters? In-Reply-To: <1410738080.3722.321.camel@t4.mnopltd.com> References: <1410738080.3722.321.camel@t4.mnopltd.com> Message-ID: <1410745121.5611.508.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> On Sun, 2014-09-14 at 19:41 -0400, Neal Rhodes wrote: > If in a shell script, you have a variable loaded with a character value, > and there is a delimiter, and you want to peel it apart by that > delimiter, is there a built-in expression to do that? > Here's what I'm doing, and I'm thinking there should be a better way. > FULLNAME=$1 #eg: > CustomerEntry.CreditLimit > DOT=`expr index $FULLNAME .` > DOTM1=`expr $DOT - 1` > TABLE=${FULLNAME:0:$DOTM1} > FIELD=${FULLNAME:$DOT:40} Yes there is. You specifically said "bash" in the subject and in the talks we've had a ALE and AUUG over "belts and suspenders bash" the speaker mentioned using regex's in bash and accessing the underlying substring results. Look for BASH_REMATCH variables and the =~ operator in the bash documentation. -- FOO=CustomerEntry.CreditLimit if [[ "${FOO}" =~ (.*)\.(.*) ]] ; then echo "${BASH_REMATCH[1]} : ${BASH_REMATCH[2]}" else echo nope fi CustomerEntry : CreditLimit -- Is that what you're after? > Neal Rhodes > President, MNOP Ltd > Lilburn, GA > 770-972-5430 > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: Regards, Mike -- Michael H. Warfield (AI4NB) | (770) 978-7061 | mhw at WittsEnd.com /\/\|=mhw=|\/\/ | (678) 463-0932 | http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/ NIC whois: MHW9 | An optimist believes we live in the best of all PGP Key: 0x674627FF | possible worlds. A pessimist is sure of it! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 465 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From damon at damtek.com Sun Sep 14 22:40:32 2014 From: damon at damtek.com (Damon L. Chesser) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 22:40:32 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT: mini PC In-Reply-To: <5409053D.1010907@damtek.com> References: <5409053D.1010907@damtek.com> Message-ID: <541651A0.6000303@damtek.com> While not directly responding back to the OP, I did answer my own question: I ordered one of each of the below, both with a 4G SODIMM and a 68GB SSD. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KR0QHXW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HVKLSVC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 I am amazed. they both worked with ubuntu flawlessly, both wired and wireless. Both play 1080P video. I tested halflife2 on one of them with no issues (via steam). For the price of ~$220 each, you can have a dual core intel chip, 4GB RAM and 68GB SSD. Multiply that by 10 and for ~$2200 you have your own "orangebox" with each node sucking 7w power (or about $1.81 of power per year, I have had quoted me). One real low cost, multi-host, highly configurable lab that will run OpenStack, RHEV, Ovirt, and anything you can imagine, just throw in a switch and network cables. Granted, you will not be able to do heavy lifting with it, but you can POC the crap out of things and you will not need a new AC to cool your home lab room. Oh, and they make good media servers and I read a Steam box, but I have not tried that. On 09/04/2014 08:35 PM, Damon L. Chesser wrote: > Hmmm, > > > Been thinking about the Orangebox, but at about $15K that is a bit > steep. Wonder if this can be rigged up to provide a "cloud in a box" > for lab POC? > > At $150 each, if you can connect storage and network it is starting to > look attractive indeed. > > not for any real work, but for learning OpenStack goodness. > > > On 09/04/2014 07:48 AM, Boris Borisov wrote: >> http://linuxgizmos.com/android-4-4-mini-pc-packs-64-bit-quad-core-atom-punch/ >> >> >> Is this kind of devices can be named PC. PC for me have BIOS that >> loads the >> first sector of boot device which takes over. These devices are having >> uboot for boot loader that loads Linux kernel primarily so is very >> custom. >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- Damon at damtek.com 404-271-8699 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ecashin at noserose.net Mon Sep 15 08:18:21 2014 From: ecashin at noserose.net (Ed Cashin) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 08:18:21 -0400 Subject: [ale] If there a neat way of peeling apart bash variable by delimters? In-Reply-To: <1410745121.5611.508.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> References: <1410738080.3722.321.camel@t4.mnopltd.com> <1410745121.5611.508.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> Message-ID: Yes, Mike's right that you asked for a bash way and he gave you one. If, though, you decide you would rather maintain compatibility with minimal POSIX shells that don't have full bash support, you can use the old-school Bourne shell features, $IFS and "set". I think IFS stands for "internal field separator." Just set the field separator to your field separator. After calling "set" with the string to peel apart, the numbered variables will correspond to the peeled-apart fields. In the transcript below I'm checking that it works in the Korn shell after verifying it in bash beforehand. bash$ PS1='ksh$ ' ksh ksh$ name=First.Last ksh$ IFS=. ksh$ set $name ksh$ echo $1 First ksh$ echo $2 Last ksh$ ^D bash$ On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 9:38 PM, Michael H. Warfield wrote: > On Sun, 2014-09-14 at 19:41 -0400, Neal Rhodes wrote: >> If in a shell script, you have a variable loaded with a character value, >> and there is a delimiter, and you want to peel it apart by that >> delimiter, is there a built-in expression to do that? > >> Here's what I'm doing, and I'm thinking there should be a better way. > >> FULLNAME=$1 #eg: >> CustomerEntry.CreditLimit >> DOT=`expr index $FULLNAME .` >> DOTM1=`expr $DOT - 1` >> TABLE=${FULLNAME:0:$DOTM1} >> FIELD=${FULLNAME:$DOT:40} > > Yes there is. You specifically said "bash" in the subject and in the > talks we've had a ALE and AUUG over "belts and suspenders bash" the > speaker mentioned using regex's in bash and accessing the underlying > substring results. Look for BASH_REMATCH variables and the =~ operator > in the bash documentation. > > -- > FOO=CustomerEntry.CreditLimit > > if [[ "${FOO}" =~ (.*)\.(.*) ]] ; then > echo "${BASH_REMATCH[1]} : ${BASH_REMATCH[2]}" > else > echo nope > fi > > CustomerEntry : CreditLimit > -- > > Is that what you're after? > >> Neal Rhodes >> President, MNOP Ltd >> Lilburn, GA >> 770-972-5430 >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: > > Regards, > Mike > -- > Michael H. Warfield (AI4NB) | (770) 978-7061 | mhw at WittsEnd.com > /\/\|=mhw=|\/\/ | (678) 463-0932 | http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/ > NIC whois: MHW9 | An optimist believes we live in the best of all > PGP Key: 0x674627FF | possible worlds. A pessimist is sure of it! > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: signature.asc > Type: application/pgp-signature > Size: 465 bytes > Desc: This is a digitally signed message part > URL: > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -- Ed Cashin From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com Mon Sep 15 09:12:01 2014 From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Chris Fowler) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 09:12:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [ale] debian network manager In-Reply-To: References: <1689883819.3183672.1410615491710.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> <1446925176.3183925.1410615740642.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> Message-ID: <2104717966.3281195.1410786721512.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Boris Borisov" > To: "Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts" > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2014 11:54:02 AM > Subject: Re: [ale] debian network manager > Is the your Linux distribution Debian based or custom ? Debian on the Beaglebone Black rev C. The problem is not assigning the address. I have already configured reservations on my DHCP server. The problem is that I'm creating a device that can have different configs. Different modes. In bridge mode eth0 can not have an IP. It needs to be assigned to br0. Switching mode from access point to bridge requires a new /etc/network/interfaces. Even if I create one the system still wants to give eth0 a DHCP. Even if I have specified manual in that file!! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From philip at turmel.org Mon Sep 15 10:00:15 2014 From: philip at turmel.org (Phil Turmel) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 10:00:15 -0400 Subject: [ale] debian network manager In-Reply-To: <2104717966.3281195.1410786721512.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> References: <1689883819.3183672.1410615491710.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> <1446925176.3183925.1410615740642.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> <2104717966.3281195.1410786721512.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> Message-ID: <5416F0EF.90300@turmel.org> On 09/15/2014 09:12 AM, Chris Fowler wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Boris Borisov" >> To: "Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts" >> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2014 11:54:02 AM >> Subject: Re: [ale] debian network manager > >> Is the your Linux distribution Debian based or custom ? > > Debian on the Beaglebone Black rev C. > > The problem is not assigning the address. I have already configured reservations on my DHCP server. > > The problem is that I'm creating a device that can have different configs. Different modes. In bridge mode eth0 can not have an IP. It needs to be assigned to br0. Switching mode from access point to bridge requires a new /etc/network/interfaces. Even if I create one the system still wants to give eth0 a DHCP. Even if > I have specified manual in that file!! The DHCP client runs as a background task, I believe. For changes to take effect, you need to reboot, or at least make your changes while the port is down. Try the following sequence if you haven't yet: 1) "ifdown eth0" 2) replace /etc/network/interfaces 3) "ifup eth0" HTH, Phil From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com Mon Sep 15 10:28:31 2014 From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Chris Fowler) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 10:28:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [ale] debian network manager In-Reply-To: <5416F0EF.90300@turmel.org> References: <1689883819.3183672.1410615491710.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> <1446925176.3183925.1410615740642.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> <2104717966.3281195.1410786721512.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> <5416F0EF.90300@turmel.org> Message-ID: <1252540746.3288602.1410791311361.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Phil Turmel" > To: ale at ale.org > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 10:00:15 AM > Subject: Re: [ale] debian network manager > The DHCP client runs as a background task, I believe. For changes to > take effect, you need to reboot, or at least make your changes while the > port is down. > Try the following sequence if you haven't yet: > 1) "ifdown eth0" > 2) replace /etc/network/interfaces > 3) "ifup eth0" Oh yea. Done that. Debian still says it wants to run DHCP on eth0. Google 'NetworkManager Sucks' -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Mon Sep 15 12:09:46 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 12:09:46 -0400 Subject: [ale] ALE-Central Meeting Thursday, Sept 18 7:30 pm Message-ID: Using Node.js to monitor SNMP (for fun and profit) A technical How-To talk on using Node.js as a way to extract useful data from SNMP traffic for system health, databases, UPS battery life, anything that can be run over an SNMP process. Tommie Jones is a Software Engineer whose been developing for Unix/Linux for most of the last 18 years. His interests include data analytics and digital signal processing. Basically anything that collects, processes, stores and analyzes data. His website is located at http://www.atlantageek.com The meeting will be held at 7:30 in the 5th floor classroom of the PAIS Building (Psychology And Interdisciplinary Sciences) on Emory campus. 36 Eagle Row Atlanta, GA 30322 https://maps.google.com/maps?q=36+eagle+row,+Atlanta,+GA+30322&hl=en&sll=33.785157,-84.327141&sspn=0.062277,0.132093&t=h&hnear=36+Eagle+Row,+Atlanta,+Georgia+30322&z=17 The lot nearest the building is $0 after 5pm but still uses a ticket system. Be sure to use the South elevator to enter the 5th floor to avoid be confined for study in the psychology lab on the North end of the building. Seriously. I know this bunch. The psych crowd would _LOVE_ to tinker with what's left your mind. So either take the elevator up one floor or use the stairs and go to the other end of the building to travel up to the 5th floor. Libations and general orneriness and a lot of "back in my day" will follow at Meltons. -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ale at sixit.com Mon Sep 15 13:42:38 2014 From: ale at sixit.com (Robert Reese) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 13:42:38 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT: Microsoft Buying Mojang / Minecraft, Will Drop Linux Message-ID: <1614848321.20140915134238@sixit.com> Very sad, disturbing news: Mojang just sold their souls to Microsoft. The MS press release specifies which platforms Microsoft will offer Minecraft on. Linux is missing from the list. How long before advertising starts being added? In-App Purchases? Your maps taken for their profit? Mod authors receiving Cease and Desist orders for violating Microsoft IP? Getting "Realms" was on my to-do list. I'm glad I waited. The world got a little darker today. Robert~ From ale at sixit.com Mon Sep 15 13:44:40 2014 From: ale at sixit.com (Robert Reese) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 13:44:40 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT: Microsoft Buying Mojang / Minecraft, Will Drop Linux (link added) Message-ID: <287071574.20140915134440@sixit.com> [Oops. Forgot link.] http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2014/sept14/09-15news.aspx Very sad, disturbing news: Mojang just sold their souls to Microsoft. The MS press release specifies which platforms Microsoft will offer Minecraft on. Linux is missing from the list. How long before advertising starts being added? In-App Purchases? Your maps taken for their profit? Mod authors receiving Cease and Desist orders for violating Microsoft IP? Getting "Realms" was on my to-do list. I'm glad I waited. The world got a little darker today. Robert~ From evan at banyash.com Mon Sep 15 13:46:34 2014 From: evan at banyash.com (Evan Banyash) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 13:46:34 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT: Microsoft Buying Mojang / Minecraft, Will Drop Linux In-Reply-To: <1614848321.20140915134238@sixit.com> References: <1614848321.20140915134238@sixit.com> Message-ID: No you're missing the point. The monetization will go something like this: "Hey that's a cool mod you made there! How'd you like us to sell it for $4.99 and you can keep two bucks on every purchase?" On the plus side, that's probably what it's going to take for minecraft to have an actual mod api. Aggressive monetization solves all problems! On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 1:42 PM, Robert Reese wrote: > Very sad, disturbing news: > > Mojang just sold their souls to Microsoft. The MS press release specifies > which platforms Microsoft will offer Minecraft on. Linux is missing from > the list. > > How long before advertising starts being added? In-App Purchases? Your > maps taken for their profit? Mod authors receiving Cease and Desist orders > for violating Microsoft IP? > > Getting "Realms" was on my to-do list. I'm glad I waited. > > The world got a little darker today. > > Robert~ > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ale at horkan.net Mon Sep 15 13:46:58 2014 From: ale at horkan.net (Horkan Smith) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 13:46:58 -0400 Subject: [ale] debian network manager In-Reply-To: <1252540746.3288602.1410791311361.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> References: <1689883819.3183672.1410615491710.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> <1446925176.3183925.1410615740642.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> <2104717966.3281195.1410786721512.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> <5416F0EF.90300@turmel.org> <1252540746.3288602.1410791311361.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> Message-ID: <20140915174657.GD1544@horkan.net> You'd mentioned in an earlier email that you didn't see NetworkManager on the system... does that still seem to be true? I'd look for /etc/init.d/network-manager, /usr/sbin/NetworkManager, and try a 'ps -auxww | grep -i network' to see if anything was around, as well as just 'aptitude search network-manager' to see if the package was installed. I typically remove the network-manager package from my servers, and use the /etc/network/interfaces file to configure a variety of bridges and virtual interfaces. I do the same on the laptop, but mostly bring up things manually. (I switch between different networks a lot, depending on the task at hand.) Depending upon just how badly you're willing to mangle things, you could just rename '/usr/sbin/dhclient' to something else (is it using dhclient, or dhcpcd?) You might even be able to use that to figure out what's running it (try replacing the dhclient exec w/ a script that saves the output of a 'ps' to a file, then look for the PPID.) Once you've got the auto-DHCP stopped.... For a while I had setup several mapping stanzas in my /etc/network/interfaces file, then would use a script that exported a network name in an environment variable - the mapping script would pick the appropriate mapped interface depending upon the desired network name. It was a bit ugly, but worked well for awhile. In practice now, I just leave the interfaces file simple/manual and set stuff up manually instead. Let me know, and I'll try and dig out more info on the mapping approach if you want. later! horkan On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 10:28:31AM -0400, Chris Fowler wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Phil Turmel" > > To: ale at ale.org > > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 10:00:15 AM > > Subject: Re: [ale] debian network manager > > > The DHCP client runs as a background task, I believe. For changes to > > take effect, you need to reboot, or at least make your changes while the > > port is down. > > > Try the following sequence if you haven't yet: > > > 1) "ifdown eth0" > > 2) replace /etc/network/interfaces > > 3) "ifup eth0" > > Oh yea. Done that. Debian still says it wants to run DHCP on eth0. > > Google 'NetworkManager Sucks' > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -- Horkan Smith 678-777-3263 cell, ale at horkan.net From evan at banyash.com Mon Sep 15 13:47:37 2014 From: evan at banyash.com (Evan Banyash) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 13:47:37 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT: Microsoft Buying Mojang / Minecraft, Will Drop Linux (link added) In-Reply-To: <287071574.20140915134440@sixit.com> References: <287071574.20140915134440@sixit.com> Message-ID: Also "PC" implies linux. It's not like they're taking it off of java... that would require a total rewrite. On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 1:44 PM, Robert Reese wrote: > [Oops. Forgot link.] > > http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2014/sept14/09-15news.aspx > > > Very sad, disturbing news: > > Mojang just sold their souls to Microsoft. The MS press release specifies > which platforms Microsoft will offer Minecraft on. Linux is missing from > the list. > > How long before advertising starts being added? In-App Purchases? Your > maps taken for their profit? Mod authors receiving Cease and Desist orders > for violating Microsoft IP? > > Getting "Realms" was on my to-do list. I'm glad I waited. > > The world got a little darker today. > > Robert~ > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From allen at ua.edu Mon Sep 15 13:47:53 2014 From: allen at ua.edu (Beddingfield, Allen) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 17:47:53 +0000 Subject: [ale] FW: Attachmate Group announces agreement to merge with Micro Focus In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: FYI -- Allen Beddingfield Systems Engineer The University of Alabama ________________________________ From: Nils Brauckmann, President and General Manager, SUSE [e-info at nsuse.com] Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 11:20 AM To: Beddingfield, Allen Subject: Attachmate Group announces agreement to merge with Micro Focus If you are having trouble reading this email, read the online version. [SUSE] 800.529.3400 Request A Call Dear SUSE Customer, We wanted to take this opportunity to inform you that on September 15, 2014, our parent entity, the Attachmate Group entered into a definitive agreement to merge with Micro Focus. This transaction is expected to close November 3, 2014. The press release for this announcement can be found here for your reference. Here?s what this announcement means to you: * Business as Usual: We value your trust and your business. There are no changes planned to your SUSE sales, technical support or professional services teams. All SUSE contact details remain the same, and no action is required on your part as a result of this announcement. Simply continue to do business with SUSE as usual. * We adapt. You succeed. You rely on SUSE for innovative, high quality Linux and Open Source solutions that help you succeed. We remain passionately committed to your success and the solutions, technical expertise and customer support that you have come to know and expect from us. * Continued Innovation: The combination of the Attachmate Group and Micro Focus creates a larger, global enterprise software entity, operating at a greater global scale. This provides an even stronger foundation for your continued business with SUSE and for our continued innovation and growth. We understand that you may also be a Micro Focus customer. If so, please continue to transact your business with Micro Focus as normal. If you have questions or feedback, please contact your SUSE account team or SUSE partner. And don?t forget to join us at SUSECon 2014 (November 17?21, 2014) in Orlando, Florida where you will hear from SUSE executives, industry leaders and technical experts about how the latest Linux and Open Source technology innovations can help you create an ?always open? enterprise. Sincerely, Nils Brauckmann President and General Manager SUSE [SUSECon 2014 Logo] Always Open. Join us in Orlando, Florida, Nov 17-21 Register now ? [SUSE] Copyright ? 2014 SUSE, All rights reserved. All third party trademarks are the property of their respective owners. This email is sent only to registered subscribers. Please click this link to unsubscribe or manage your email preferences. SUSE LINUX Products GmbH | Maxfeldstr. 5 | 90409 N?rnberg | Germany From evan at banyash.com Mon Sep 15 13:49:04 2014 From: evan at banyash.com (Evan Banyash) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 13:49:04 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT: Microsoft Buying Mojang / Minecraft, Will Drop Linux (link added) In-Reply-To: References: <287071574.20140915134440@sixit.com> Message-ID: Not to mention the bit about "Microsoft plans to continue to make ?Minecraft? available across all the platforms on which it is available today" On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Evan Banyash wrote: > Also "PC" implies linux. It's not like they're taking it off of java... > that would require a total rewrite. > > On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 1:44 PM, Robert Reese wrote: > >> [Oops. Forgot link.] >> >> http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2014/sept14/09-15news.aspx >> >> >> Very sad, disturbing news: >> >> Mojang just sold their souls to Microsoft. The MS press release >> specifies which platforms Microsoft will offer Minecraft on. Linux is >> missing from the list. >> >> How long before advertising starts being added? In-App Purchases? Your >> maps taken for their profit? Mod authors receiving Cease and Desist orders >> for violating Microsoft IP? >> >> Getting "Realms" was on my to-do list. I'm glad I waited. >> >> The world got a little darker today. >> >> Robert~ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Mon Sep 15 14:10:14 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 14:10:14 -0400 Subject: [ale] adobe acrobat reader for Linux is no more? Message-ID: The downloads site has Windows, Mac and Android. Not that Linux needs adobe acrobat reader as the evince tool seems to do everything anyway. -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Mon Sep 15 14:12:11 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 14:12:11 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT: Microsoft Buying Mojang / Minecraft, Will Drop Linux In-Reply-To: <1614848321.20140915134238@sixit.com> References: <1614848321.20140915134238@sixit.com> Message-ID: I recently acquired a VPS for my son to run a minecraft server on. When I showed him the the notice a week back this was coming I thought he was going to cry. The minecraft community is pretty pissed. On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 1:42 PM, Robert Reese wrote: > Very sad, disturbing news: > > Mojang just sold their souls to Microsoft. The MS press release specifies > which platforms Microsoft will offer Minecraft on. Linux is missing from > the list. > > How long before advertising starts being added? In-App Purchases? Your > maps taken for their profit? Mod authors receiving Cease and Desist orders > for violating Microsoft IP? > > Getting "Realms" was on my to-do list. I'm glad I waited. > > The world got a little darker today. > > Robert~ > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Mon Sep 15 14:16:19 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 14:16:19 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT: Microsoft Buying Mojang / Minecraft, Will Drop Linux (link added) In-Reply-To: <287071574.20140915134440@sixit.com> References: <287071574.20140915134440@sixit.com> Message-ID: heh, heh. They just can't come out and say, "We will keep Minecraft on Linux because we lost the war and the desktop is no longer all ours.". Available on "the PC" and iOS. So since Mac crap now runs on Intel, doesn't that make it a PC? Notch is grinning all the way to the bank. On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 1:44 PM, Robert Reese wrote: > [Oops. Forgot link.] > > http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2014/sept14/09-15news.aspx > > > Very sad, disturbing news: > > Mojang just sold their souls to Microsoft. The MS press release specifies > which platforms Microsoft will offer Minecraft on. Linux is missing from > the list. > > How long before advertising starts being added? In-App Purchases? Your > maps taken for their profit? Mod authors receiving Cease and Desist orders > for violating Microsoft IP? > > Getting "Realms" was on my to-do list. I'm glad I waited. > > The world got a little darker today. > > Robert~ > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdp at algoloma.com Mon Sep 15 14:17:33 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 14:17:33 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT: Microsoft Buying Mojang / Minecraft, Will Drop Linux (link added) In-Reply-To: References: <287071574.20140915134440@sixit.com> Message-ID: <54172D3D.9080309@algoloma.com> They may "optimize" certain subsystems to be Windows-only, however. OTOH, I don't hold anything against the selling company/team - getting paid enough to to never work again is a nice thing to have, even if it is inconvenient for the rest of the world. On 09/15/2014 01:47 PM, Evan Banyash wrote: > Also "PC" implies linux. It's not like they're taking it off of java... > that would require a total rewrite. > > On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 1:44 PM, Robert Reese wrote: > >> [Oops. Forgot link.] >> >> http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2014/sept14/09-15news.aspx >> >> >> Very sad, disturbing news: >> >> Mojang just sold their souls to Microsoft. The MS press release specifies >> which platforms Microsoft will offer Minecraft on. Linux is missing from >> the list. >> >> How long before advertising starts being added? In-App Purchases? Your >> maps taken for their profit? Mod authors receiving Cease and Desist orders >> for violating Microsoft IP? >> >> Getting "Realms" was on my to-do list. I'm glad I waited. >> >> The world got a little darker today. >> >> Robert~ >> From bugyatl at gmail.com Mon Sep 15 14:33:36 2014 From: bugyatl at gmail.com (Boris Borisov) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 18:33:36 +0000 Subject: [ale] OT: Microsoft Buying Mojang / Minecraft, Will Drop Linux In-Reply-To: References: <1614848321.20140915134238@sixit.com> Message-ID: Did ?ojang gave donation to the guy they stole idea for the game? On Monday, September 15, 2014, Jim Kinney wrote: > I recently acquired a VPS for my son to run a minecraft server on. When I > showed him the the notice a week back this was coming I thought he was > going to cry. The minecraft community is pretty pissed. > > On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 1:42 PM, Robert Reese > wrote: > > > Very sad, disturbing news: > > > > Mojang just sold their souls to Microsoft. The MS press release > specifies > > which platforms Microsoft will offer Minecraft on. Linux is missing from > > the list. > > > > How long before advertising starts being added? In-App Purchases? Your > > maps taken for their profit? Mod authors receiving Cease and Desist > orders > > for violating Microsoft IP? > > > > Getting "Realms" was on my to-do list. I'm glad I waited. > > > > The world got a little darker today. > > > > Robert~ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > > > -- > -- > James P. Kinney III > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. > It won't fatten the dog. > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > * > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140915/cc0cd9c3/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- Sent from Gmail Mobile -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From splante at insightsys.com Mon Sep 15 14:49:17 2014 From: splante at insightsys.com (Scott Plante) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 14:49:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [ale] adobe acrobat reader for Linux is no more? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1910188545.3228.1410806957597.JavaMail.root@insightsys.com> It's still in openSUSE non-OSS repo. Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Kinney" To: "Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts - Yes! We run Linux!" Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 2:10:14 PM Subject: [ale] adobe acrobat reader for Linux is no more? The downloads site has Windows, Mac and Android. Not that Linux needs adobe acrobat reader as the evince tool seems to do everything anyway. -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Mon Sep 15 15:35:26 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 15:35:26 -0400 Subject: [ale] adobe acrobat reader for Linux is no more? In-Reply-To: <1910188545.3228.1410806957597.JavaMail.root@insightsys.com> References: <1910188545.3228.1410806957597.JavaMail.root@insightsys.com> Message-ID: That it is. Still has dependency issues with libpangox being the hard one. Pango has "moved on" and even the pango-compat install lacks the libpangox-1.0.so.0 that answers to the acroread binary correctly. Like most things adobe, they've dropped support for Linux. The current version of reader is 11. The last Linux version was 9.5.5 and that seems to be about 6 years ago. On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 2:49 PM, Scott Plante wrote: > > It's still in openSUSE non-OSS repo. > > Scott > > ------------------------------ > *From: *"Jim Kinney" > *To: *"Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts - Yes! We run Linux!" > *Sent: *Monday, September 15, 2014 2:10:14 PM > *Subject: *[ale] adobe acrobat reader for Linux is no more? > > > The downloads site has Windows, Mac and Android. > > Not that Linux needs adobe acrobat reader as the evince tool seems to do > everything anyway. > > -- > -- > James P. Kinney III > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. > It won't fatten the dog. > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > * > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140915/e02993cf/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com Mon Sep 15 15:48:43 2014 From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Chris Fowler) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 15:48:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [ale] debian network manager In-Reply-To: <20140915174657.GD1544@horkan.net> References: <1689883819.3183672.1410615491710.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> <1446925176.3183925.1410615740642.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> <2104717966.3281195.1410786721512.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> <5416F0EF.90300@turmel.org> <1252540746.3288602.1410791311361.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> <20140915174657.GD1544@horkan.net> Message-ID: <918916967.3320628.1410810523522.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Horkan Smith" > To: "Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts" > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 1:46:58 PM > Subject: Re: [ale] debian network manager > You'd mentioned in an earlier email that you didn't see NetworkManager on the > system... does that still seem to be true? I think this system uses ifupdown. I'm about to load something on an 8GB SDHC are use that instead of Debian. What I've decided to do is run a program before the network.service. This program will determine what mode we are operating in and will setup the system for that mode. To stop this device from running DHCP I'll need to tell it to not manage eth0. I really wanted to do this on the fly instead of rebooting. My goal is to use the DIO and push button switch to cycle modes. A reboot does not allow us to do that. When I write that program I'll have to change the logic to allow me to hit the button as needed to select mode and then when 3s have passed with no tap it will configure new mode and reboot. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From splante at insightsys.com Mon Sep 15 15:48:43 2014 From: splante at insightsys.com (Scott Plante) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 15:48:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [ale] ALE-Central Meeting Thursday, Sept 18 7:30 pm In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1558387139.3672.1410810523697.JavaMail.root@insightsys.com> LOL! : ... and a lot of "back in my day" will follow... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Kinney" To: "Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts - Yes! We run Linux!" Sent: Monday, September 15, 2014 12:09:46 PM Subject: [ale] ALE-Central Meeting Thursday, Sept 18 7:30 pm Using Node.js to monitor SNMP (for fun and profit) A technical How-To talk on using Node.js as a way to extract useful data from SNMP traffic for system health, databases, UPS battery life, anything that can be run over an SNMP process. Tommie Jones is a Software Engineer whose been developing for Unix/Linux for most of the last 18 years. His interests include data analytics and digital signal processing. Basically anything that collects, processes, stores and analyzes data. His website is located at http://www.atlantageek.com The meeting will be held at 7:30 in the 5th floor classroom of the PAIS Building (Psychology And Interdisciplinary Sciences) on Emory campus. 36 Eagle Row Atlanta, GA 30322 https://maps.google.com/maps?q=36+eagle+row,+Atlanta,+GA+30322&hl=en&sll=33.785157,-84.327141&sspn=0.062277,0.132093&t=h&hnear=36+Eagle+Row,+Atlanta,+Georgia+30322&z=17 The lot nearest the building is $0 after 5pm but still uses a ticket system. Be sure to use the South elevator to enter the 5th floor to avoid be confined for study in the psychology lab on the North end of the building. Seriously. I know this bunch. The psych crowd would _LOVE_ to tinker with what's left your mind. So either take the elevator up one floor or use the stairs and go to the other end of the building to travel up to the 5th floor. Libations and general orneriness and a lot of "back in my day" will follow at Meltons. -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Mon Sep 15 15:52:00 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 15:52:00 -0400 Subject: [ale] ALE-Central Meeting Thursday, Sept 18 7:30 pm In-Reply-To: <1558387139.3672.1410810523697.JavaMail.root@insightsys.com> References: <1558387139.3672.1410810523697.JavaMail.root@insightsys.com> Message-ID: It was the best I could do :-) No way to add the thin, aging voice slurred by beer :-) On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Scott Plante wrote: > LOL! : ...and a lot of "back in my day" will follow... > > ------------------------------ > *From: *"Jim Kinney" > *To: *"Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts - Yes! We run Linux!" > *Sent: *Monday, September 15, 2014 12:09:46 PM > *Subject: *[ale] ALE-Central Meeting Thursday, Sept 18 7:30 pm > > > Using Node.js to monitor SNMP (for fun and profit) > > A technical How-To talk on using Node.js as a way to extract useful data > from SNMP traffic for system health, databases, UPS battery life, anything > that can be run over an SNMP process. > > Tommie Jones is a Software Engineer whose been developing for Unix/Linux > for most of the last 18 years. His interests include data analytics and > digital signal processing. Basically anything that collects, processes, > stores and analyzes data. His website is located at > http://www.atlantageek.com > > > The meeting will be held at 7:30 in the 5th floor classroom of the PAIS > Building (Psychology And Interdisciplinary Sciences) on Emory campus. > > 36 Eagle Row > Atlanta, GA 30322 > > > https://maps.google.com/maps?q=36+eagle+row,+Atlanta,+GA+30322&hl=en&sll=33.785157,-84.327141&sspn=0.062277,0.132093&t=h&hnear=36+Eagle+Row,+Atlanta,+Georgia+30322&z=17 > > The lot nearest the building is $0 after 5pm but still uses a ticket > system. Be sure to use the South elevator to enter the 5th floor to avoid > be confined for study in the psychology lab on the North end of the > building. Seriously. I know this bunch. The psych crowd would _LOVE_ to > tinker with what's left your mind. So either take the elevator up one floor > or use the stairs and go to the other end of the building to travel up to > the 5th floor. > > Libations and general orneriness and a lot of "back in my day" will follow > at Meltons. > > -- > -- > James P. Kinney III > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. > It won't fatten the dog. > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com Mon Sep 15 16:42:42 2014 From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Chris Fowler) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 16:42:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [ale] debian network manager In-Reply-To: <918916967.3320628.1410810523522.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> References: <1689883819.3183672.1410615491710.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> <1446925176.3183925.1410615740642.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> <2104717966.3281195.1410786721512.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> <5416F0EF.90300@turmel.org> <1252540746.3288602.1410791311361.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> <20140915174657.GD1544@horkan.net> <918916967.3320628.1410810523522.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> Message-ID: <1697348038.3324894.1410813762862.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> At this point I'm getting pissed! This system is refusing to follow orders. root at beaglebone:~# ps -ef | grep dhclient root 1687 1 0 20:39 ? 00:00:00 dhclient -v -pf /run/dhclient.br0.pid -lf /var/lib/dhcp/dhclient.br0.leases br0 root 2697 1 0 20:39 ? 00:00:00 /sbin/dhclient -v eth0 root at beaglebone:~# cat /etc/default/networking # Configuration for networking init script being run during # the boot sequence # Set to 'no' to skip interfaces configuration on boot #CONFIGURE_INTERFACES=yes # Don't configure these interfaces. Shell wildcards supported/ EXCLUDE_INTERFACES="eth0" # Set to 'yes' to enable additional verbosity #VERBOSE=no root at beaglebone:~# cat /etc/network/interfaces # This file describes the network interfaces available on your system # and how to activate them. For more information, see interfaces(5). # The loopback network interface auto lo iface lo inet loopback auto eth0 iface eth0 inet manual pre-up ifconfig $IFACE up pre-down ifconfig $IFACE down auto wlan0 iface wlan0 inet manual pre-up ifconfig $IFACE up pre-down ifconfig $IFACE down auto br0 iface br0 inet dhcp bridge_ports eth0 bridge_stp on # Ethernet/RNDIS gadget (g_ether) # ... or on host side, usbnet and random hwaddr # Note on some boards, usb0 is automaticly setup with an init script iface usb0 inet static address 192.168.7.2 netmask 255.255.255.0 network 192.168.7.0 gateway 192.168.7.1 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evan at banyash.com Mon Sep 15 16:48:51 2014 From: evan at banyash.com (Evan Banyash) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 16:48:51 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT: Microsoft Buying Mojang / Minecraft, Will Drop Linux (link added) In-Reply-To: <54172D3D.9080309@algoloma.com> References: <287071574.20140915134440@sixit.com> <54172D3D.9080309@algoloma.com> Message-ID: That's not possible though. the game runs on LWJGL which is an externally managed opengl library. The api remains uniform between platforms. They cannot favor one over another here without rewriting a LOT of code. And have you seen the minecraft codebase? It's a tangled mess that nobody can ever touch without breaking everything. On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 2:17 PM, JD wrote: > They may "optimize" certain subsystems to be Windows-only, however. > > OTOH, I don't hold anything against the selling company/team - getting paid > enough to to never work again is a nice thing to have, even if it is > inconvenient for the rest of the world. > > On 09/15/2014 01:47 PM, Evan Banyash wrote: > > Also "PC" implies linux. It's not like they're taking it off of java... > > that would require a total rewrite. > > > > On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 1:44 PM, Robert Reese wrote: > > > >> [Oops. Forgot link.] > >> > >> http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2014/sept14/09-15news.aspx > >> > >> > >> Very sad, disturbing news: > >> > >> Mojang just sold their souls to Microsoft. The MS press release > specifies > >> which platforms Microsoft will offer Minecraft on. Linux is missing from > >> the list. > >> > >> How long before advertising starts being added? In-App Purchases? Your > >> maps taken for their profit? Mod authors receiving Cease and Desist > orders > >> for violating Microsoft IP? > >> > >> Getting "Realms" was on my to-do list. I'm glad I waited. > >> > >> The world got a little darker today. > >> > >> Robert~ > >> > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bugyatl at gmail.com Mon Sep 15 19:32:50 2014 From: bugyatl at gmail.com (Boris Borisov) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 23:32:50 +0000 Subject: [ale] OT: more like hardware question Message-ID: Somebody to recommend vacuum cleaner or blower for dusting electronics and mechanics. Thanks -- Sent from Gmail Mobile -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From neal at mnopltd.com Mon Sep 15 21:25:45 2014 From: neal at mnopltd.com (Neal Rhodes) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 21:25:45 -0400 Subject: [ale] If there a neat way of peeling apart bash variable by delimters? In-Reply-To: <1410745121.5611.508.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> References: <1410738080.3722.321.camel@t4.mnopltd.com> <1410745121.5611.508.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> Message-ID: <1410830745.3722.405.camel@t4.mnopltd.com> Thanks. That is a smidge more compact. Although it doesn't quite jump off the page w.r.t. readability. I was hoping for something along the lines of Progress: Table = entry(1, FullName, "."). But I shall take a look at BASH_REMATCH. On Sun, 2014-09-14 at 21:38 -0400, Michael H. Warfield wrote: > On Sun, 2014-09-14 at 19:41 -0400, Neal Rhodes wrote: > > If in a shell script, you have a variable loaded with a character value, > > and there is a delimiter, and you want to peel it apart by that > > delimiter, is there a built-in expression to do that? > > > Here's what I'm doing, and I'm thinking there should be a better way. > > > FULLNAME=$1 #eg: > > CustomerEntry.CreditLimit > > DOT=`expr index $FULLNAME .` > > DOTM1=`expr $DOT - 1` > > TABLE=${FULLNAME:0:$DOTM1} > > FIELD=${FULLNAME:$DOT:40} > > Yes there is. You specifically said "bash" in the subject and in the > talks we've had a ALE and AUUG over "belts and suspenders bash" the > speaker mentioned using regex's in bash and accessing the underlying > substring results. Look for BASH_REMATCH variables and the =~ operator > in the bash documentation. > > -- > FOO=CustomerEntry.CreditLimit > > if [[ "${FOO}" =~ (.*)\.(.*) ]] ; then > echo "${BASH_REMATCH[1]} : ${BASH_REMATCH[2]}" > else > echo nope > fi > > CustomerEntry : CreditLimit > -- > > Is that what you're after? > > > Neal Rhodes > > President, MNOP Ltd > > Lilburn, GA > > 770-972-5430 > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: > > Regards, > Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From neal at mnopltd.com Mon Sep 15 21:27:26 2014 From: neal at mnopltd.com (Neal Rhodes) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 21:27:26 -0400 Subject: [ale] If there a neat way of peeling apart bash variable by delimters? In-Reply-To: References: <1410738080.3722.321.camel@t4.mnopltd.com> <1410745121.5611.508.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> Message-ID: <1410830846.3722.407.camel@t4.mnopltd.com> Yes, I remember the IFS=, and the OIFS=$IFS, and then IFS=, and then put it back, but was trying to not disturb the argument list by doing a set statement, and it just reads so terribly. Thanks. On Mon, 2014-09-15 at 08:18 -0400, Ed Cashin wrote: > Yes, Mike's right that you asked for a bash way and he gave you one. > > If, though, you decide you would rather maintain compatibility with > minimal POSIX shells that don't have full bash support, you can use > the old-school Bourne shell features, $IFS and "set". I think IFS > stands for "internal field separator." > > Just set the field separator to your field separator. After calling > "set" with the string to peel apart, the numbered variables will > correspond to the peeled-apart fields. > > In the transcript below I'm checking that it works in the Korn shell > after verifying it in bash beforehand. > > bash$ PS1='ksh$ ' ksh > ksh$ name=First.Last > ksh$ IFS=. > ksh$ set $name > ksh$ echo $1 > First > ksh$ echo $2 > Last > ksh$ ^D > bash$ > > > > > On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 9:38 PM, Michael H. Warfield wrote: > > On Sun, 2014-09-14 at 19:41 -0400, Neal Rhodes wrote: > >> If in a shell script, you have a variable loaded with a character value, > >> and there is a delimiter, and you want to peel it apart by that > >> delimiter, is there a built-in expression to do that? > > > >> Here's what I'm doing, and I'm thinking there should be a better way. > > > >> FULLNAME=$1 #eg: > >> CustomerEntry.CreditLimit > >> DOT=`expr index $FULLNAME .` > >> DOTM1=`expr $DOT - 1` > >> TABLE=${FULLNAME:0:$DOTM1} > >> FIELD=${FULLNAME:$DOT:40} > > > > Yes there is. You specifically said "bash" in the subject and in the > > talks we've had a ALE and AUUG over "belts and suspenders bash" the > > speaker mentioned using regex's in bash and accessing the underlying > > substring results. Look for BASH_REMATCH variables and the =~ operator > > in the bash documentation. > > > > -- > > FOO=CustomerEntry.CreditLimit > > > > if [[ "${FOO}" =~ (.*)\.(.*) ]] ; then > > echo "${BASH_REMATCH[1]} : ${BASH_REMATCH[2]}" > > else > > echo nope > > fi > > > > CustomerEntry : CreditLimit > > -- > > > > Is that what you're after? > > > >> Neal Rhodes > >> President, MNOP Ltd > >> Lilburn, GA > >> 770-972-5430 > >> -------------- next part -------------- > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >> URL: > > > > Regards, > > Mike > > -- > > Michael H. Warfield (AI4NB) | (770) 978-7061 | mhw at WittsEnd.com > > /\/\|=mhw=|\/\/ | (678) 463-0932 | http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/ > > NIC whois: MHW9 | An optimist believes we live in the best of all > > PGP Key: 0x674627FF | possible worlds. A pessimist is sure of it! > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > > Name: signature.asc > > Type: application/pgp-signature > > Size: 465 bytes > > Desc: This is a digitally signed message part > > URL: > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Mon Sep 15 22:24:46 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 22:24:46 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT: more like hardware question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I use a tiny hand vac from home depot. Wrap the head in foil and ground it to the case. Run a bare wire around the hose fasten it down with foil and tape over the foil. Secure the wire to the foil on the head. This will block static charge buildup as the hose and case will have the same ground plane. On Sep 15, 2014 7:35 PM, "Boris Borisov" wrote: > Somebody to recommend vacuum cleaner or blower for dusting electronics and > mechanics. Thanks > > -- > Sent from Gmail Mobile > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140915/e9ebbbc4/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Mon Sep 15 22:40:22 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 22:40:22 -0400 Subject: [ale] If there a neat way of peeling apart bash variable by delimters? In-Reply-To: <1410830745.3722.405.camel@t4.mnopltd.com> References: <1410738080.3722.321.camel@t4.mnopltd.com> <1410745121.5611.508.camel@canyon.ip6.wittsend.com> <1410830745.3722.405.camel@t4.mnopltd.com> Message-ID: A bash equivalent of perl @array=split (delim, $string); would be ideal. string='my,long,string,of,crap' OFS=$IFS IFS=',' read -a array <<< "$string" now extract bits as needed: echo "${array[0]}" my echo "${array[1]}" long etc. On Sep 15, 2014 9:28 PM, "Neal Rhodes" wrote: Thanks. That is a smidge more compact. Although it doesn't quite jump > off the page w.r.t. readability. > > I was hoping for something along the lines of Progress: > Table = entry(1, FullName, "."). > > But I shall take a look at BASH_REMATCH. > > On Sun, 2014-09-14 at 21:38 -0400, Michael H. Warfield wrote: > > > On Sun, 2014-09-14 at 19:41 -0400, Neal Rhodes wrote: > > > If in a shell script, you have a variable loaded with a character > value, > > > and there is a delimiter, and you want to peel it apart by that > > > delimiter, is there a built-in expression to do that? > > > > > Here's what I'm doing, and I'm thinking there should be a better way. > > > > > FULLNAME=$1 #eg: > > > CustomerEntry.CreditLimit > > > DOT=`expr index $FULLNAME .` > > > DOTM1=`expr $DOT - 1` > > > TABLE=${FULLNAME:0:$DOTM1} > > > FIELD=${FULLNAME:$DOT:40} > > > > Yes there is. You specifically said "bash" in the subject and in the > > talks we've had a ALE and AUUG over "belts and suspenders bash" the > > speaker mentioned using regex's in bash and accessing the underlying > > substring results. Look for BASH_REMATCH variables and the =~ operator > > in the bash documentation. > > > > -- > > FOO=CustomerEntry.CreditLimit > > > > if [[ "${FOO}" =~ (.*)\.(.*) ]] ; then > > echo "${BASH_REMATCH[1]} : ${BASH_REMATCH[2]}" > > else > > echo nope > > fi > > > > CustomerEntry : CreditLimit > > -- > > > > Is that what you're after? > > > > > Neal Rhodes > > > President, MNOP Ltd > > > Lilburn, GA > > > 770-972-5430 > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140914/3c89902c/attachment.html > > > > > > Regards, > > Mike > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140915/8848b893/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Tue Sep 16 11:14:22 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 11:14:22 -0400 Subject: [ale] the reason for gnu ratpoison window manager Message-ID: http://www.nongnu.org/ratpoison/inspiration.html I can't stop giggling about this. It's, so, GNU. :-) http://www.nongnu.org/ratpoison/ -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wolf.halton at gmail.com Tue Sep 16 13:31:19 2014 From: wolf.halton at gmail.com (Wolf Halton) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 13:31:19 -0400 Subject: [ale] the reason for gnu ratpoison window manager In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: That is reassuring. Wolf Halton -- This Apt Has Super Cow Powers - http://sourcefreedom.com Security in the Cloud - http://AtlantaCloudTech.com On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 11:14 AM, Jim Kinney wrote: > http://www.nongnu.org/ratpoison/inspiration.html > > I can't stop giggling about this. It's, so, GNU. > > :-) > > http://www.nongnu.org/ratpoison/ > > -- > -- > James P. Kinney III > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. > It won't fatten the dog. > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > * > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140916/070c6a57/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bugyatl at gmail.com Tue Sep 16 14:32:48 2014 From: bugyatl at gmail.com (Boris Borisov) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 14:32:48 -0400 Subject: [ale] totally OT: coffee Message-ID: Laterally I've been travelling around metro Atlanta a lot because of my job and at some point of the day good cup off coffee is needed. Your recommendations or favorites. -- Sent from Gmail Mobile -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From allen at ua.edu Tue Sep 16 14:42:58 2014 From: allen at ua.edu (Beddingfield, Allen) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 18:42:58 +0000 Subject: [ale] totally OT: coffee In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I find that the coffee bar in Whole Foods is exceptionally good. We don't have Caribou in Alabama, so I also end up frequenting Caribou to get caffeinated. I discovered them when I went to MN, and we really happy when I realized that they existed in Atlanta, too :D If there are any good locally owned ones that I may not have tried in the Sandy Springs area, I would love to know about them, because I'm over here now, and come over here occasionally for work. :) -- Allen Beddingfield Systems Engineer The University of Alabama ________________________________________ From: ale-bounces at ale.org [ale-bounces at ale.org] on behalf of Boris Borisov [bugyatl at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 1:32 PM To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts Subject: [ale] totally OT: coffee Laterally I've been travelling around metro Atlanta a lot because of my job and at some point of the day good cup off coffee is needed. Your recommendations or favorites. -- Sent from Gmail Mobile -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo From questy at gmail.com Tue Sep 16 15:10:52 2014 From: questy at gmail.com (Jerald Sheets) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 15:10:52 -0400 Subject: [ale] totally OT: coffee In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Don?t forget Atlanta Coffee Roasters in Toco Hills and Cool Beans on the Marietta square. They both roast their own and ACR has over 50 varieties available. They will also ?single press? and do pour overs, I believe. ?jms On Sep 16, 2014, at 2:42 PM, Beddingfield, Allen wrote: > I find that the coffee bar in Whole Foods is exceptionally good. We don't have Caribou in Alabama, so I also end up frequenting Caribou to get caffeinated. I discovered them when I went to MN, and we really happy when I realized that they existed in Atlanta, too :D > If there are any good locally owned ones that I may not have tried in the Sandy Springs area, I would love to know about them, because I'm over here now, and come over here occasionally for work. :) > -- > Allen Beddingfield > Systems Engineer > The University of Alabama > > ________________________________________ > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [ale-bounces at ale.org] on behalf of Boris Borisov [bugyatl at gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 1:32 PM > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts > Subject: [ale] totally OT: coffee > > Laterally I've been travelling around metro Atlanta a lot because of my job > and at some point of the day good cup off coffee is needed. > > Your recommendations or favorites. > > > -- > Sent from Gmail Mobile > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 496 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: From jkinney at jimkinney.us Tue Sep 16 15:18:28 2014 From: jkinney at jimkinney.us (Jim Kinney) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 15:18:28 -0400 Subject: [ale] totally OT: coffee In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <93c02f66-3d3e-4754-869c-b620d533eda0@email.android.com> I've cut back on my coffee intake (measured in pots per day in grad school and quality was optional) but have had a cup or three from Dunkin Doughnuts. It's a nice middle of the spectrum Joe, not bold or weak. The burnt swill at Starbucks is everywhere. It's for people who drink candy. QuickTrip has pretty decent joe for a convenience store. The Columbian is rather good. They are almost as everywhere and as Starbucks and half the cost gets twice as much of four times better coffee. On September 16, 2014 2:32:48 PM EDT, Boris Borisov wrote: >Laterally I've been travelling around metro Atlanta a lot because of my >job >and at some point of the day good cup off coffee is needed. > >Your recommendations or favorites. > > >-- >Sent from Gmail Mobile >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: > >_______________________________________________ >Ale mailing list >Ale at ale.org >http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -- Jim Kinney Linux Systems Analyst Physicist/Brewer http://jimkinney.us -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdp at algoloma.com Tue Sep 16 15:21:01 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 15:21:01 -0400 Subject: [ale] the reason for gnu ratpoison window manager In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <54188D9D.3010902@algoloma.com> I appreciate the exception to patented equipment. On 09/16/2014 01:31 PM, Wolf Halton wrote: > That is reassuring. > > Wolf Halton > > -- > This Apt Has Super Cow Powers - http://sourcefreedom.com > Security in the Cloud - http://AtlantaCloudTech.com > > > > On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 11:14 AM, Jim Kinney wrote: > >> http://www.nongnu.org/ratpoison/inspiration.html >> >> I can't stop giggling about this. It's, so, GNU. >> From pbcartwright at gmail.com Tue Sep 16 16:38:55 2014 From: pbcartwright at gmail.com (Paul Cartwright) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 16:38:55 -0400 Subject: [ale] totally OT: coffee In-Reply-To: <93c02f66-3d3e-4754-869c-b620d533eda0@email.android.com> References: <93c02f66-3d3e-4754-869c-b620d533eda0@email.android.com> Message-ID: <54189FDF.70706@gmail.com> On 09/16/2014 03:18 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > I've cut back on my coffee intake (measured in pots per day in grad school and quality was optional) but have had a cup or three from Dunkin Doughnuts. It's a nice middle of the spectrum Joe, not bold or weak. > The burnt swill at Starbucks is everywhere. It's for people who drink candy. > QuickTrip has pretty decent joe for a convenience store. The Columbian is rather good. They are almost as everywhere and as Starbucks and half the cost gets twice as much of four times better coffee. I like McDonalds coffee.. the arabica beans:) and with my senior discount, half a buck.. but most of m coffee is at IHOP on sunday mornings.. 55+ menu.. -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 From fassl.tod at gmail.com Tue Sep 16 16:53:14 2014 From: fassl.tod at gmail.com (Todor Fassl) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 15:53:14 -0500 Subject: [ale] preferred pdf reader Message-ID: <5418A33A.8000600@gmail.com> I have a bit of a support problem. My end users are complaining about having to use evince for pdf files. They can't print half the time. I happen to be blind and the linux screen reader (orca) doesn't work well with any pdf viewer I've found. Besides, I can't see what comes out on the printer. Is evince the best pdf program out there for linux? I was thinking I'd just install everything and let the end-users choose. Any suggestions as to what else I should try? From jim.kinney at gmail.com Tue Sep 16 16:58:39 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 16:58:39 -0400 Subject: [ale] totally OT: coffee In-Reply-To: <54189FDF.70706@gmail.com> References: <93c02f66-3d3e-4754-869c-b620d533eda0@email.android.com> <54189FDF.70706@gmail.com> Message-ID: Gotta drink IHOP coffee fast. It gets acidic as it cools. Waffle house is even worse. Now OHOP coffee is a different Joe entirely. Very low acid, fruity and a medium roast with a good nose is it. I wind up with the jitters after breakfast there :-) On Sep 16, 2014 4:41 PM, "Paul Cartwright" wrote: > On 09/16/2014 03:18 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > > I've cut back on my coffee intake (measured in pots per day in grad > school and quality was optional) but have had a cup or three from Dunkin > Doughnuts. It's a nice middle of the spectrum Joe, not bold or weak. > > The burnt swill at Starbucks is everywhere. It's for people who drink > candy. > > QuickTrip has pretty decent joe for a convenience store. The Columbian > is rather good. They are almost as everywhere and as Starbucks and half the > cost gets twice as much of four times better coffee. > I like McDonalds coffee.. the arabica beans:) and with my senior > discount, half a buck.. > but most of m coffee is at IHOP on sunday mornings.. 55+ menu.. > > -- > Paul Cartwright > Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From taaj.shawn at gmail.com Tue Sep 16 17:00:36 2014 From: taaj.shawn at gmail.com (Shawn) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 17:00:36 -0400 Subject: [ale] preferred pdf reader In-Reply-To: <5418A33A.8000600@gmail.com> References: <5418A33A.8000600@gmail.com> Message-ID: I think its free .. Used to be anyway. http://www.foxitsoftware.com/downloads/ On Sep 16, 2014 4:56 PM, "Todor Fassl" wrote: > I have a bit of a support problem. My end users are complaining about > having to use evince for pdf files. They can't print half the time. I > happen to be blind and the linux screen reader (orca) doesn't work well > with any pdf viewer I've found. Besides, I can't see what comes out on the > printer. Is evince the best pdf program out there for linux? I was thinking > I'd just install everything and let the end-users choose. Any suggestions > as to what else I should try? > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From taaj.shawn at gmail.com Tue Sep 16 17:03:40 2014 From: taaj.shawn at gmail.com (Shawn) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 17:03:40 -0400 Subject: [ale] totally OT: coffee In-Reply-To: References: <93c02f66-3d3e-4754-869c-b620d533eda0@email.android.com> <54189FDF.70706@gmail.com> Message-ID: Second cool beans On Sep 16, 2014 5:02 PM, "Jim Kinney" wrote: > Gotta drink IHOP coffee fast. It gets acidic as it cools. Waffle house is > even worse. > > Now OHOP coffee is a different Joe entirely. Very low acid, fruity and a > medium roast with a good nose is it. I wind up with the jitters after > breakfast there :-) > On Sep 16, 2014 4:41 PM, "Paul Cartwright" wrote: > > > On 09/16/2014 03:18 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > > > I've cut back on my coffee intake (measured in pots per day in grad > > school and quality was optional) but have had a cup or three from Dunkin > > Doughnuts. It's a nice middle of the spectrum Joe, not bold or weak. > > > The burnt swill at Starbucks is everywhere. It's for people who drink > > candy. > > > QuickTrip has pretty decent joe for a convenience store. The Columbian > > is rather good. They are almost as everywhere and as Starbucks and half > the > > cost gets twice as much of four times better coffee. > > I like McDonalds coffee.. the arabica beans:) and with my senior > > discount, half a buck.. > > but most of m coffee is at IHOP on sunday mornings.. 55+ menu.. > > > > -- > > Paul Cartwright > > Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140916/f87900d2/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From taaj.shawn at gmail.com Tue Sep 16 17:22:41 2014 From: taaj.shawn at gmail.com (Shawn) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 17:22:41 -0400 Subject: [ale] Need a printer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Anyone got a printer for trade? I have one of these brand new in the box.. http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00CVTO76G?pc_redir=1410009446&robot_redir=1 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com Tue Sep 16 17:32:23 2014 From: James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com (James Taylor) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 17:32:23 -0400 Subject: [ale] preferred pdf reader In-Reply-To: <5418A33A.8000600@gmail.com> References: <5418A33A.8000600@gmail.com> Message-ID: <54187427020000750005122A@inet.eastcobbgroup.com> I use okular, as I use KDE for my desktop. It has worked fine for me. No printing problems here. -jt James Taylor 678-697-9420 james.taylor at eastcobbgroup.com >>> Todor Fassl 9/16/2014 4:53 PM >>> I have a bit of a support problem. My end users are complaining about having to use evince for pdf files. They can't print half the time. I happen to be blind and the linux screen reader (orca) doesn't work well with any pdf viewer I've found. Besides, I can't see what comes out on the printer. Is evince the best pdf program out there for linux? I was thinking I'd just install everything and let the end-users choose. Any suggestions as to what else I should try? _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo If this is an unsolicited spam message, please click this link to report it: http://control.eastcobbgroup.com:49285/contents/spamreport.shtml?rptid=57266&srvid=16vl15t From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com Tue Sep 16 17:45:53 2014 From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Chris Fowler) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 17:45:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [ale] debian network manager In-Reply-To: <1697348038.3324894.1410813762862.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> References: <1689883819.3183672.1410615491710.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> <2104717966.3281195.1410786721512.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> <5416F0EF.90300@turmel.org> <1252540746.3288602.1410791311361.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> <20140915174657.GD1544@horkan.net> <918916967.3320628.1410810523522.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> <1697348038.3324894.1410813762862.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> Message-ID: <1325170294.3473050.1410903953193.JavaMail.zimbra@outpostsentinel.com> What I'm finding out is /etc/dhclient/dhclient.conf is instructing dhclient what to do in regards to eth* interfaces. That is what I'm reading with Google. I've replaced /sbin/dhclient with a wrapper to determine the operating mode and will exit if we are in bridge more. This problem is solved. Chris -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pbcartwright at gmail.com Tue Sep 16 18:26:55 2014 From: pbcartwright at gmail.com (Paul Cartwright) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 18:26:55 -0400 Subject: [ale] Need a printer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5418B92F.9040906@gmail.com> On 09/16/2014 05:22 PM, Shawn wrote: > Anyone got a printer for trade? I have one of these brand new in the box.. > > http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00CVTO76G?pc_redir=1410009446&robot_redir=1 > -------------- next part -------------- just gave 3 printers to freeitathens.. still have an older HP 5310 all-in-one.. -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 From jim.kinney at gmail.com Wed Sep 17 08:18:50 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 08:18:50 -0400 Subject: [ale] preferred pdf reader In-Reply-To: <5418A33A.8000600@gmail.com> References: <5418A33A.8000600@gmail.com> Message-ID: I've not had any printing issues using evince. I did install the entire liberation font set as it is the standard set that is not embedded in PDF documents. Can you relay further details about the printing issues? On Sep 16, 2014 4:56 PM, "Todor Fassl" wrote: > I have a bit of a support problem. My end users are complaining about > having to use evince for pdf files. They can't print half the time. I > happen to be blind and the linux screen reader (orca) doesn't work well > with any pdf viewer I've found. Besides, I can't see what comes out on the > printer. Is evince the best pdf program out there for linux? I was thinking > I'd just install everything and let the end-users choose. Any suggestions > as to what else I should try? > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ciani at panix.com Wed Sep 17 09:47:44 2014 From: ciani at panix.com (Emily) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 09:47:44 -0400 Subject: [ale] totally OT: coffee Message-ID: <20140917134744.GA8863@panix.com> Heard good things about Chattahoochee Coffee Company http://www.chattahoocheecoffee.com/about On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 05:03:40PM -0400, Shawn wrote: > Second cool beans > On Sep 16, 2014 5:02 PM, "Jim Kinney" wrote: > > > Gotta drink IHOP coffee fast. It gets acidic as it cools. Waffle house is > > even worse. > > > > Now OHOP coffee is a different Joe entirely. Very low acid, fruity and a > > medium roast with a good nose is it. I wind up with the jitters after > > breakfast there :-) > > On Sep 16, 2014 4:41 PM, "Paul Cartwright" wrote: > > > > > On 09/16/2014 03:18 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > > > > I've cut back on my coffee intake (measured in pots per day in grad > > > school and quality was optional) but have had a cup or three from Dunkin > > > Doughnuts. It's a nice middle of the spectrum Joe, not bold or weak. > > > > The burnt swill at Starbucks is everywhere. It's for people who drink > > > candy. > > > > QuickTrip has pretty decent joe for a convenience store. The Columbian > > > is rather good. They are almost as everywhere and as Starbucks and half > > the > > > cost gets twice as much of four times better coffee. > > > I like McDonalds coffee.. the arabica beans:) and with my senior > > > discount, half a buck.. > > > but most of m coffee is at IHOP on sunday mornings.. 55+ menu.. > > > > > > -- > > > Paul Cartwright > > > Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Ale mailing list > > > Ale at ale.org > > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140916/f87900d2/attachment.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo From leamhall at gmail.com Wed Sep 17 10:05:36 2014 From: leamhall at gmail.com (leam hall) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 10:05:36 -0400 Subject: [ale] [Mildly OT] Personal bliss or world conquest? Message-ID: What I call "mental flexibility" my wife calls "waffling". Mine at least sounds dignified. This has been running around in my head for a few years now. Would appreciate perspectives, if you have them. Or just more coffee recommendations; I will get to ATL eventually... Solving technical problems, including some systems programming, is fun to me. I can get lost in it and be happy. However, I'm not a "real" programmer in that my work seldom gets more than a hundred or two lines of code and I only know the basics in a couple languages. Solving big problems is challenging. I've done datacenter project management and been successful. Especially since I often complain about "nobody fixing the real issues". I like fixing them but they aren't as personally fun. I'm not looking for a job but am looking to define my job to be what I want to do. I just wish I knew what I wanted to do... Leam -- Mind on a Mission From pete.hardie at gmail.com Wed Sep 17 10:16:03 2014 From: pete.hardie at gmail.com (Pete Hardie) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 10:16:03 -0400 Subject: [ale] [Mildly OT] Personal bliss or world conquest? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Are you asking for help figuring out what you want to be when you grow up? :) Best of luck - I still haven't quite figured out my goals yet.... On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 10:05 AM, leam hall wrote: > What I call "mental flexibility" my wife calls "waffling". Mine at > least sounds dignified. This has been running around in my head for a > few years now. Would appreciate perspectives, if you have them. Or > just more coffee recommendations; I will get to ATL eventually... > > Solving technical problems, including some systems programming, is fun > to me. I can get lost in it and be happy. However, I'm not a "real" > programmer in that my work seldom gets more than a hundred or two > lines of code and I only know the basics in a couple languages. > > Solving big problems is challenging. I've done datacenter project > management and been successful. Especially since I often complain > about "nobody fixing the real issues". I like fixing them but they > aren't as personally fun. > > I'm not looking for a job but am looking to define my job to be what I > want to do. I just wish I knew what I wanted to do... > > Leam > > -- > Mind on a Mission > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- Pete Hardie -------- Better Living Through Bitmaps -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Wed Sep 17 10:32:13 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 10:32:13 -0400 Subject: [ale] [Mildly OT] Personal bliss or world conquest? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sep 17, 2014 10:23 AM, "Pete Hardie" wrote: > > Are you asking for help figuring out what you want to be when you grow up? > :) > So far, I have managed to refuse to grow up. My wife concurs with my achievement so far :-) I like problem solving and creating new stuff. Started taking a metalworking art class and jewelry making class for fun. > Best of luck - I still haven't quite figured out my goals yet.... > > On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 10:05 AM, leam hall wrote: > > > What I call "mental flexibility" my wife calls "waffling". Mine at > > least sounds dignified. This has been running around in my head for a > > few years now. Would appreciate perspectives, if you have them. Or > > just more coffee recommendations; I will get to ATL eventually... > > > > Solving technical problems, including some systems programming, is fun > > to me. I can get lost in it and be happy. However, I'm not a "real" > > programmer in that my work seldom gets more than a hundred or two > > lines of code and I only know the basics in a couple languages. > > > > Solving big problems is challenging. I've done datacenter project > > management and been successful. Especially since I often complain > > about "nobody fixing the real issues". I like fixing them but they > > aren't as personally fun. > > > > I'm not looking for a job but am looking to define my job to be what I > > want to do. I just wish I knew what I wanted to do... > > > > Leam > > > > -- > > Mind on a Mission > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > > > -- > Pete Hardie > -------- > Better Living Through Bitmaps > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140917/cdf50dd7/attachment.html > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JLightner at dsservices.com Wed Sep 17 10:38:16 2014 From: JLightner at dsservices.com (Lightner, Jeff) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 14:38:16 +0000 Subject: [ale] [Mildly OT] Personal bliss or world conquest? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EB221F@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> Years ago I was an accountant and worked my way up the ranks to the point where I was a Controller. Although accounting takes intelligence to do and managing people presents may challenges I found myself bored by the former and annoyed by the politics of the latter. Accordingly I left that career path and went into IT. My first IT job was a massive pay cut and put me on a help desk. I quickly worked my way up to Senior Technician for customer issues and was doing internal systems administration and systems staging for customers. After that every job I've had has been Systems Administration (and pays better than when I was in management before)so I've resisted suggestions to go back into management roles even in IT. What I like about Systems Administration is that it doesn't get boring because: a) It isn't exactly the same at every job. Some places the admin owns the storage, the networking, the backups etc... and other (larger shops) might only own the actual OS administration. b) It is always evolving. What I was doing on UNIX in 1991 was different from what I was doing on it in 1996 and now with Linux it evolves even more quickly and is a far cry from the early days. Having said all that I find that what I really enjoy most is solving different issues. Once I truly know how to do a task it becomes mundane for me so I often think if I were to change jobs I'd look for another help desk situation just because the problems are more likely to vary from call to call. In that Senior Technician role it was nearly perfect because I wasn't getting the calls for "add a new user" but was getting the ones for "adding a new user doesn't work anymore". It seems to me you learn much more from what goes wrong than from what works. In Systems Admin unfortunately you're often "learning" at 3 AM. -----Original Message----- From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Pete Hardie Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 10:22 AM To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [ale] [Mildly OT] Personal bliss or world conquest? Are you asking for help figuring out what you want to be when you grow up? :) Best of luck - I still haven't quite figured out my goals yet.... On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 10:05 AM, leam hall wrote: > What I call "mental flexibility" my wife calls "waffling". Mine at > least sounds dignified. This has been running around in my head for a > few years now. Would appreciate perspectives, if you have them. Or > just more coffee recommendations; I will get to ATL eventually... > > Solving technical problems, including some systems programming, is fun > to me. I can get lost in it and be happy. However, I'm not a "real" > programmer in that my work seldom gets more than a hundred or two > lines of code and I only know the basics in a couple languages. > > Solving big problems is challenging. I've done datacenter project > management and been successful. Especially since I often complain > about "nobody fixing the real issues". I like fixing them but they > aren't as personally fun. > > I'm not looking for a job but am looking to define my job to be what I > want to do. I just wish I knew what I wanted to do... > > Leam > > -- > Mind on a Mission > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- Pete Hardie -------- Better Living Through Bitmaps -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo Athena(r), Created for the Cause(tm) Making a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Cancer __________________________________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged or confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you From trbaley at yahoo.com Wed Sep 17 11:12:07 2014 From: trbaley at yahoo.com (Thomas Baley) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 08:12:07 -0700 Subject: [ale] [Mildly OT] Personal bliss or world conquest? In-Reply-To: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EB221F@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> References: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EB221F@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> Message-ID: <1410966727.47514.YahooMailNeo@web140802.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Jim, Hhmmm....my wife had the same opinion of me, wonder if they knew one another or is that a "wife thing". But having now been widowed for 7 years, retired, and a modest nest egg, I am rapidly spiraling downward in age.... Thomas R. Baley trb at acm.org (404) 307-6428 www.linkedin.com/in/tbaley On Wednesday, September 17, 2014 10:43 AM, "Lightner, Jeff" wrote: Years ago I was an accountant and worked my way up the ranks to the point where I was a Controller. Although accounting takes intelligence to do and managing people presents may challenges I found myself bored by the former and annoyed by the politics of the latter. Accordingly I left that career path and went into IT. My first IT job was a massive pay cut and put me on a help desk. I quickly worked my way up to Senior Technician for customer issues and was doing internal systems administration and systems staging for customers. After that every job I've had has been Systems Administration (and pays better than when I was in management before)so I've resisted suggestions to go back into management roles even in IT. What I like about Systems Administration is that it doesn't get boring because: a) It isn't exactly the same at every job. Some places the admin owns the storage, the networking, the backups etc... and other (larger shops) might only own the actual OS administration. b) It is always evolving. What I was doing on UNIX in 1991 was different from what I was doing on it in 1996 and now with Linux it evolves even more quickly and is a far cry from the early days. Having said all that I find that what I really enjoy most is solving different issues. Once I truly know how to do a task it becomes mundane for me so I often think if I were to change jobs I'd look for another help desk situation just because the problems are more likely to vary from call to call. In that Senior Technician role it was nearly perfect because I wasn't getting the calls for "add a new user" but was getting the ones for "adding a new user doesn't work anymore". It seems to me you learn much more from what goes wrong than from what works. In Systems Admin unfortunately you're often "learning" at 3 AM. -----Original Message----- From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Pete Hardie Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 10:22 AM To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [ale] [Mildly OT] Personal bliss or world conquest? Are you asking for help figuring out what you want to be when you grow up? :) Best of luck - I still haven't quite figured out my goals yet.... On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 10:05 AM, leam hall wrote: > What I call "mental flexibility" my wife calls "waffling". Mine at > least sounds dignified. This has been running around in my head for a > few years now. Would appreciate perspectives, if you have them. Or > just more coffee recommendations; I will get to ATL eventually... > > Solving technical problems, including some systems programming, is fun > to me. I can get lost in it and be happy. However, I'm not a "real" > programmer in that my work seldom gets more than a hundred or two > lines of code and I only know the basics in a couple languages. > > Solving big problems is challenging. I've done datacenter project > management and been successful. Especially since I often complain > about "nobody fixing the real issues". I like fixing them but they > aren't as personally fun. > > I'm not looking for a job but am looking to define my job to be what I > want to do. I just wish I knew what I wanted to do... > > Leam > > -- > Mind on a Mission > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- Pete Hardie -------- Better Living Through Bitmaps -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo Athena(r), Created for the Cause(tm) Making a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Cancer __________________________________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged or confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fassl.tod at gmail.com Wed Sep 17 12:08:11 2014 From: fassl.tod at gmail.com (Todor Fassl) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 11:08:11 -0500 Subject: [ale] preferred pdf reader In-Reply-To: References: <5418A33A.8000600@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5419B1EB.3040704@gmail.com> Both the desktop workstations and the print server have the fonts-liberation package installed. Right now, I can't provide any more information about the printing problems. Technically, I'm not the desktop support person. She just said a lot ofthe time people can't print their bdf docs and asked if there was another pdf program they could use. With something like printing, it's hard to tell where desktop support endds and server admin begins. I set up the print server, installed linux and cups on it but our desktop support erson configured the print queues. I don't know too much about that stuff. But it occurs to me that if I understand linux printing correctly, the print server is responsible for formatting documents before sending them off to the printer. So this would be a cups problem, not an evince problem. Is that right? On 09/17/14 07:18, Jim Kinney wrote: > I've not had any printing issues using evince. I did install the entire > liberation font set as it is the standard set that is not embedded in PDF > documents. > > Can you relay further details about the printing issues? > On Sep 16, 2014 4:56 PM, "Todor Fassl" wrote: > >> I have a bit of a support problem. My end users are complaining about >> having to use evince for pdf files. They can't print half the time. I >> happen to be blind and the linux screen reader (orca) doesn't work well >> with any pdf viewer I've found. Besides, I can't see what comes out on the >> printer. Is evince the best pdf program out there for linux? I was thinking >> I'd just install everything and let the end-users choose. Any suggestions >> as to what else I should try? >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo From jim.kinney at gmail.com Wed Sep 17 13:42:02 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 13:42:02 -0400 Subject: [ale] [Mildly OT] Personal bliss or world conquest? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: OK. As the subject is personal bliss vs world conquest I guess I get to toss my warped view around on that line: I'd go for world domination over personal bliss. When I run everything, I can then set up my personal bliss ond no one can take it away from me. Just having all the other people miserable under my iron rule (Free Beer on all days that end in "y" unless it's an election day then it's mandatory drinking cause there's no elections - BWAHAHAHAHA!) is nearly enough for my personal bliss anyway :-} From a serious standpoint, it really depends on opportunity. World Domination shows up as an opportunity to make a positive change (that usually involves Linux systems solving a problem). The bliss happens when it works. The total bliss happens when I get to replace Windows and Mac systems with Linux and the new users are happy with the change. OK. OK. The total bliss _may_ be related to the brewing I do. probably. most likely. yeah. beer. On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 10:32 AM, Jim Kinney wrote: > > On Sep 17, 2014 10:23 AM, "Pete Hardie" wrote: > > > > Are you asking for help figuring out what you want to be when you grow > up? > > :) > > > > So far, I have managed to refuse to grow up. > > My wife concurs with my achievement so far :-) > > I like problem solving and creating new stuff. Started taking a > metalworking art class and jewelry making class for fun. > > > Best of luck - I still haven't quite figured out my goals yet.... > > > > On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 10:05 AM, leam hall wrote: > > > > > What I call "mental flexibility" my wife calls "waffling". Mine at > > > least sounds dignified. This has been running around in my head for a > > > few years now. Would appreciate perspectives, if you have them. Or > > > just more coffee recommendations; I will get to ATL eventually... > > > > > > Solving technical problems, including some systems programming, is fun > > > to me. I can get lost in it and be happy. However, I'm not a "real" > > > programmer in that my work seldom gets more than a hundred or two > > > lines of code and I only know the basics in a couple languages. > > > > > > Solving big problems is challenging. I've done datacenter project > > > management and been successful. Especially since I often complain > > > about "nobody fixing the real issues". I like fixing them but they > > > aren't as personally fun. > > > > > > I'm not looking for a job but am looking to define my job to be what I > > > want to do. I just wish I knew what I wanted to do... > > > > > > Leam > > > > > > -- > > > Mind on a Mission > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Ale mailing list > > > Ale at ale.org > > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Pete Hardie > > -------- > > Better Living Through Bitmaps > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140917/cdf50dd7/attachment.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdp at algoloma.com Wed Sep 17 13:53:00 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 13:53:00 -0400 Subject: [ale] [Mildly OT] Personal bliss or world conquest? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5419CA7C.10603@algoloma.com> I'm easily amused, it seems. Booting a liveCD and using gparted to wipe Windows is excellent. OS-X even more so. Automated flushing is a dream, yet to be solved. Though I understand Emory has tested that via PXE. ;) Don't forget to feed my bliss THIS Saturday at the ALE-NW InstallFest! ;) Date: Saturday 9/20 Starts: 10am (volunteers 15-30 early please) Ends: 5pm Location: SPSU Atrium bldg - room J-266 Directions: http://ale.org/?page_id=506 Parking: Free parking Volunteers still needed! On 09/17/2014 01:42 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > OK. As the subject is personal bliss vs world conquest I guess I get to > toss my warped view around on that line: > > I'd go for world domination over personal bliss. When I run everything, I > can then set up my personal bliss ond no one can take it away from me. Just > having all the other people miserable under my iron rule (Free Beer on all > days that end in "y" unless it's an election day then it's mandatory > drinking cause there's no elections - BWAHAHAHAHA!) is nearly enough for my > personal bliss anyway :-} > > From a serious standpoint, it really depends on opportunity. World > Domination shows up as an opportunity to make a positive change (that > usually involves Linux systems solving a problem). The bliss happens when > it works. The total bliss happens when I get to replace Windows and Mac > systems with Linux and the new users are happy with the change. > > OK. OK. The total bliss _may_ be related to the brewing I do. probably. > most likely. yeah. beer. > > On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 10:32 AM, Jim Kinney wrote: > >> >> On Sep 17, 2014 10:23 AM, "Pete Hardie" wrote: >>> >>> Are you asking for help figuring out what you want to be when you grow >> up? >>> :) >>> >> >> So far, I have managed to refuse to grow up. >> >> My wife concurs with my achievement so far :-) >> >> I like problem solving and creating new stuff. Started taking a >> metalworking art class and jewelry making class for fun. >> >>> Best of luck - I still haven't quite figured out my goals yet.... >>> >>> On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 10:05 AM, leam hall wrote: >>> >>>> What I call "mental flexibility" my wife calls "waffling". Mine at >>>> least sounds dignified. This has been running around in my head for a >>>> few years now. Would appreciate perspectives, if you have them. Or >>>> just more coffee recommendations; I will get to ATL eventually... >>>> >>>> Solving technical problems, including some systems programming, is fun >>>> to me. I can get lost in it and be happy. However, I'm not a "real" >>>> programmer in that my work seldom gets more than a hundred or two >>>> lines of code and I only know the basics in a couple languages. >>>> >>>> Solving big problems is challenging. I've done datacenter project >>>> management and been successful. Especially since I often complain >>>> about "nobody fixing the real issues". I like fixing them but they >>>> aren't as personally fun. >>>> >>>> I'm not looking for a job but am looking to define my job to be what I >>>> want to do. I just wish I knew what I wanted to do... >>>> From jim.kinney at gmail.com Wed Sep 17 14:04:00 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 14:04:00 -0400 Subject: [ale] preferred pdf reader In-Reply-To: <5419B1EB.3040704@gmail.com> References: <5418A33A.8000600@gmail.com> <5419B1EB.3040704@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yes. The print server should be providing the formatting from postscript to the printer format. If the issue is a document that fails to print fully, that could be user error. Laptop users that hit print then slam the lid shut before the file is fully transferred will get partial documents. If the document prints bad from one user but OK from another, the first user may have a bad print queue or wrong driver. If the document won't print for anyone, it's either a bad document or a bad printer driver. Basically, printing PDF from cups is rock solid. The only issue I've ever seen is when the PDF was composed using a bad PDF print driver in Microsoft Word. If the desktops are Linux, the print queue can be PASSTHRU if the driver is installed on the desktop. Otherwise the ipps is best. On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 12:08 PM, Todor Fassl wrote: > Both the desktop workstations and the print server have the > fonts-liberation package installed. > > Right now, I can't provide any more information about the printing > problems. Technically, I'm not the desktop support person. She just said a > lot ofthe time people can't print their bdf docs and asked if there was > another pdf program they could use. With something like printing, it's hard > to tell where desktop support endds and server admin begins. I set up the > print server, installed linux and cups on it but our desktop support erson > configured the print queues. I don't know too much about that stuff. But > it occurs to me that if I understand linux printing correctly, the print > server is responsible for formatting documents before sending them off to > the printer. So this would be a cups problem, not an evince problem. Is > that right? > > > > On 09/17/14 07:18, Jim Kinney wrote: > >> I've not had any printing issues using evince. I did install the entire >> liberation font set as it is the standard set that is not embedded in PDF >> documents. >> >> Can you relay further details about the printing issues? >> On Sep 16, 2014 4:56 PM, "Todor Fassl" wrote: >> >> I have a bit of a support problem. My end users are complaining about >>> having to use evince for pdf files. They can't print half the time. I >>> happen to be blind and the linux screen reader (orca) doesn't work well >>> with any pdf viewer I've found. Besides, I can't see what comes out on >>> the >>> printer. Is evince the best pdf program out there for linux? I was >>> thinking >>> I'd just install everything and let the end-users choose. Any suggestions >>> as to what else I should try? >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ale mailing list >>> Ale at ale.org >>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >>> >>> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: > 20140917/a6e5cbb8/attachment.html> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> > > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From leamhall at gmail.com Wed Sep 17 14:06:26 2014 From: leamhall at gmail.com (leam hall) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 14:06:26 -0400 Subject: [ale] [Mildly OT] Personal bliss or world conquest? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: In either case I'm doing "world improvement" stuff; either writing a script to solve a problem or running a project to keep someone from being in the headlines. My wife has put up with me pushing self and career. Trying to find ways to stay gainfully and happily employed for the next couple decades. On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 1:42 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > OK. As the subject is personal bliss vs world conquest I guess I get to > toss my warped view around on that line: > > I'd go for world domination over personal bliss. When I run everything, I > can then set up my personal bliss ond no one can take it away from me. Just > having all the other people miserable under my iron rule (Free Beer on all > days that end in "y" unless it's an election day then it's mandatory > drinking cause there's no elections - BWAHAHAHAHA!) is nearly enough for my > personal bliss anyway :-} > > From a serious standpoint, it really depends on opportunity. World > Domination shows up as an opportunity to make a positive change (that > usually involves Linux systems solving a problem). The bliss happens when > it works. The total bliss happens when I get to replace Windows and Mac > systems with Linux and the new users are happy with the change. > > OK. OK. The total bliss _may_ be related to the brewing I do. probably. > most likely. yeah. beer. > > On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 10:32 AM, Jim Kinney wrote: > >> >> On Sep 17, 2014 10:23 AM, "Pete Hardie" wrote: >> > >> > Are you asking for help figuring out what you want to be when you grow >> up? >> > :) >> > >> >> So far, I have managed to refuse to grow up. >> >> My wife concurs with my achievement so far :-) >> >> I like problem solving and creating new stuff. Started taking a >> metalworking art class and jewelry making class for fun. >> >> > Best of luck - I still haven't quite figured out my goals yet.... >> > >> > On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 10:05 AM, leam hall wrote: >> > >> > > What I call "mental flexibility" my wife calls "waffling". Mine at >> > > least sounds dignified. This has been running around in my head for a >> > > few years now. Would appreciate perspectives, if you have them. Or >> > > just more coffee recommendations; I will get to ATL eventually... >> > > >> > > Solving technical problems, including some systems programming, is fun >> > > to me. I can get lost in it and be happy. However, I'm not a "real" >> > > programmer in that my work seldom gets more than a hundred or two >> > > lines of code and I only know the basics in a couple languages. >> > > >> > > Solving big problems is challenging. I've done datacenter project >> > > management and been successful. Especially since I often complain >> > > about "nobody fixing the real issues". I like fixing them but they >> > > aren't as personally fun. >> > > >> > > I'm not looking for a job but am looking to define my job to be what I >> > > want to do. I just wish I knew what I wanted to do... >> > > >> > > Leam >> > > >> > > -- >> > > Mind on a Mission >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Ale mailing list >> > > Ale at ale.org >> > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Pete Hardie >> > -------- >> > Better Living Through Bitmaps >> > -------------- next part -------------- >> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> > URL: < >> http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140917/cdf50dd7/attachment.html >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Ale mailing list >> > Ale at ale.org >> > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> >> > > > -- > -- > James P. Kinney III > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. > It won't fatten the dog. > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > * > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -- Mind on a Mission From jim.kinney at gmail.com Wed Sep 17 14:10:32 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 14:10:32 -0400 Subject: [ale] [Mildly OT] Personal bliss or world conquest? In-Reply-To: <5419CA7C.10603@algoloma.com> References: <5419CA7C.10603@algoloma.com> Message-ID: Seeing as how many public school PCs are giant virus magnets, it's pretty easy to plug in an 8G thumbdrive to the ones that are down in the lab and reboot them. Most of the systems are not boot loader locked. Then leave them running. Must be sure to wipe fingerprints. Sat am is not an option for me on the installfest. I'm trying to get some stuff done this week so I can help in the afternoon. I need either a clone or less sleep. On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 1:53 PM, JD wrote: > I'm easily amused, it seems. > > Booting a liveCD and using gparted to wipe Windows is excellent. > OS-X even more so. > > Automated flushing is a dream, yet to be solved. Though I understand > Emory has > tested that via PXE. ;) > > Don't forget to feed my bliss THIS Saturday at the ALE-NW InstallFest! ;) > > Date: Saturday 9/20 > Starts: 10am (volunteers 15-30 early please) > Ends: 5pm > Location: SPSU Atrium bldg - room J-266 > Directions: http://ale.org/?page_id=506 > Parking: Free parking > > Volunteers still needed! > > > On 09/17/2014 01:42 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > > OK. As the subject is personal bliss vs world conquest I guess I get to > > toss my warped view around on that line: > > > > I'd go for world domination over personal bliss. When I run everything, I > > can then set up my personal bliss ond no one can take it away from me. > Just > > having all the other people miserable under my iron rule (Free Beer on > all > > days that end in "y" unless it's an election day then it's mandatory > > drinking cause there's no elections - BWAHAHAHAHA!) is nearly enough for > my > > personal bliss anyway :-} > > > > From a serious standpoint, it really depends on opportunity. World > > Domination shows up as an opportunity to make a positive change (that > > usually involves Linux systems solving a problem). The bliss happens when > > it works. The total bliss happens when I get to replace Windows and Mac > > systems with Linux and the new users are happy with the change. > > > > OK. OK. The total bliss _may_ be related to the brewing I do. probably. > > most likely. yeah. beer. > > > > On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 10:32 AM, Jim Kinney > wrote: > > > >> > >> On Sep 17, 2014 10:23 AM, "Pete Hardie" wrote: > >>> > >>> Are you asking for help figuring out what you want to be when you grow > >> up? > >>> :) > >>> > >> > >> So far, I have managed to refuse to grow up. > >> > >> My wife concurs with my achievement so far :-) > >> > >> I like problem solving and creating new stuff. Started taking a > >> metalworking art class and jewelry making class for fun. > >> > >>> Best of luck - I still haven't quite figured out my goals yet.... > >>> > >>> On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 10:05 AM, leam hall > wrote: > >>> > >>>> What I call "mental flexibility" my wife calls "waffling". Mine at > >>>> least sounds dignified. This has been running around in my head for a > >>>> few years now. Would appreciate perspectives, if you have them. Or > >>>> just more coffee recommendations; I will get to ATL eventually... > >>>> > >>>> Solving technical problems, including some systems programming, is fun > >>>> to me. I can get lost in it and be happy. However, I'm not a "real" > >>>> programmer in that my work seldom gets more than a hundred or two > >>>> lines of code and I only know the basics in a couple languages. > >>>> > >>>> Solving big problems is challenging. I've done datacenter project > >>>> management and been successful. Especially since I often complain > >>>> about "nobody fixing the real issues". I like fixing them but they > >>>> aren't as personally fun. > >>>> > >>>> I'm not looking for a job but am looking to define my job to be what I > >>>> want to do. I just wish I knew what I wanted to do... > >>>> > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Wed Sep 17 14:31:09 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 14:31:09 -0400 Subject: [ale] [Mildly OT] Personal bliss or world conquest? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 2:06 PM, leam hall wrote: > Trying to find > ways to stay gainfully and happily employed for the next couple > decades. > > +1 -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ted-lists at xy0.org Wed Sep 17 14:59:14 2014 From: ted-lists at xy0.org (Ted W) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 14:59:14 -0400 Subject: [ale] totally OT: coffee In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5419DA02.5080302@xy0.org> On 09/16/14 14:42, Beddingfield, Allen wrote: > I find that the coffee bar in Whole Foods is exceptionally good. We don't have Caribou in Alabama, so I also end up frequenting Caribou to get caffeinated. I discovered them when I went to MN, and we really happy when I realized that they existed in Atlanta, too :D > If there are any good locally owned ones that I may not have tried in the Sandy Springs area, I would love to know about them, because I'm over here now, and come over here occasionally for work. :) > -- > Allen Beddingfield > Systems Engineer > The University of Alabama > > ________________________________________ > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [ale-bounces at ale.org] on behalf of Boris Borisov [bugyatl at gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 1:32 PM > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts > Subject: [ale] totally OT: coffee > > Laterally I've been travelling around metro Atlanta a lot because of my job > and at some point of the day good cup off coffee is needed. > > Your recommendations or favorites. > > > -- > Sent from Gmail Mobile > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > They're not in Sandy Springs but if you find yourself in Little 5 Points at some point, check out Java Lords. Good coffee, funky atmosphere. -- Ted W. From skotchman at gmail.com Wed Sep 17 17:43:54 2014 From: skotchman at gmail.com (Scott Castaline) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 17:43:54 -0400 Subject: [ale] [Mildly OT] Personal bliss or world conquest? In-Reply-To: <1410966727.47514.YahooMailNeo@web140802.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EB221F@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> <1410966727.47514.YahooMailNeo@web140802.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <541A009A.3020601@gmail.com> My wife often says that I'm not happy until I've blown something up. According to her when she hears me yelling Oh crap (substituted word for real one but has same meaning) followed by AWWW FSCK she knows that I've blown something up. The last time she said I had a dry spell, hadn't blown anything up for close to 4 weeks. On 09/17/2014 11:12 AM, Thomas Baley wrote: > Jim, > > Hhmmm....my wife had the same opinion of me, wonder if they knew one another or is that a "wife thing". But having now been widowed for 7 years, retired, and a modest nest egg, I am rapidly spiraling downward in age.... > > Thomas R. Baley > trb at acm.org > (404) 307-6428 > www.linkedin.com/in/tbaley > > > On Wednesday, September 17, 2014 10:43 AM, "Lightner, Jeff" wrote: > > > > Years ago I was an accountant and worked my way up the ranks to the point where I was a Controller. > > Although accounting takes intelligence to do and managing people presents may challenges I found myself bored by the former and annoyed by the politics of the latter. Accordingly I left that career path and went into IT. My first IT job was a massive pay cut and put me on a help desk. I quickly worked my way up to Senior Technician for customer issues and was doing internal systems administration and systems staging for customers. After that every job I've had has been Systems Administration (and pays better than when I was in management before)so I've resisted suggestions to go back into management roles even in IT. > > What I like about Systems Administration is that it doesn't get boring because: > a) It isn't exactly the same at every job. Some places the admin owns the storage, the networking, the backups etc... and other (larger shops) might only own the actual OS administration. > b) It is always evolving. What I was doing on UNIX in 1991 was different from what I was doing on it in 1996 and now with Linux it evolves even more quickly and is a far cry from the early days. > > Having said all that I find that what I really enjoy most is solving different issues. Once I truly know how to do a task it becomes mundane for me so I often think if I were to change jobs I'd look for another help desk situation just because the problems are more likely to vary from call to call. In that Senior Technician role it was nearly perfect because I wasn't getting the calls for "add a new user" but was getting the ones for "adding a new user doesn't work anymore". It seems to me you learn much more from what goes wrong than from what works. In Systems Admin unfortunately you're often "learning" at 3 AM. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Pete Hardie > Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 10:22 AM > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts > Subject: Re: [ale] [Mildly OT] Personal bliss or world conquest? > > Are you asking for help figuring out what you want to be when you grow up? > :) > > Best of luck - I still haven't quite figured out my goals yet.... > > On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 10:05 AM, leam hall wrote: > >> What I call "mental flexibility" my wife calls "waffling". Mine at >> least sounds dignified. This has been running around in my head for a >> few years now. Would appreciate perspectives, if you have them. Or >> just more coffee recommendations; I will get to ATL eventually... >> >> Solving technical problems, including some systems programming, is fun >> to me. I can get lost in it and be happy. However, I'm not a "real" >> programmer in that my work seldom gets more than a hundred or two >> lines of code and I only know the basics in a couple languages. >> >> Solving big problems is challenging. I've done datacenter project >> management and been successful. Especially since I often complain >> about "nobody fixing the real issues". I like fixing them but they >> aren't as personally fun. >> >> I'm not looking for a job but am looking to define my job to be what I >> want to do. I just wish I knew what I wanted to do... >> >> Leam >> >> -- >> Mind on a Mission >> _______________________________________________ >> Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> > > > -- > Pete Hardie > -------- > Better Living Through Bitmaps > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > Athena(r), Created for the Cause(tm) > Making a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Cancer > > __________________________________________________________ > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged > > or confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended > > recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, > > copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information > > is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic > > transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that > > you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -- Sent from my Fedora Linux PC to you, NSA, the CIA, FBI, HSA and God only knows who else?! From ale_nospam at fayettedigital.com Wed Sep 17 19:35:08 2014 From: ale_nospam at fayettedigital.com (Jim Lynch) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 19:35:08 -0400 Subject: [ale] [Mildly OT] Personal bliss or world conquest? In-Reply-To: <5419CA7C.10603@algoloma.com> References: <5419CA7C.10603@algoloma.com> Message-ID: <541A1AAC.4090809@fayettedigital.com> On 09/17/2014 01:53 PM, JD wrote: > I'm easily amused, it seems. > > Booting a liveCD and using gparted to wipe Windows is excellent. > OS-X even more so. > > Automated flushing is a dream, yet to be solved. Though I understand Emory has > tested that via PXE. ;) > > Don't forget to feed my bliss THIS Saturday at the ALE-NW InstallFest! ;) > > Date: Saturday 9/20 > Starts: 10am (volunteers 15-30 early please) > Ends: 5pm > Location: SPSU Atrium bldg - room J-266 > Directions: http://ale.org/?page_id=506 > Parking: Free parking > > You never answered my question to you direct, or I didn't see it. Where is the free parking, for that matter where is SPSU? What exactly do you mean by a "USB Flash drive that can boot YOUR PC "? Is that one that already has a Windows boot on it or just an empty drive we will use to create a Linux boot/install? Also do I need to bring anything? I'll try to be there at opening. Jim. From ale_nospam at fayettedigital.com Wed Sep 17 19:37:18 2014 From: ale_nospam at fayettedigital.com (Jim Lynch) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 19:37:18 -0400 Subject: [ale] [Mildly OT] Personal bliss or world conquest? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <541A1B2E.1010306@fayettedigital.com> On 09/17/2014 02:06 PM, leam hall wrote: > My wife has put up with me pushing self and career. Trying to find > ways to stay gainfully and happily employed for the next couple > decades. I gave up on that. I'm just trying to survive for a couple of more decades enjoying life. :) Jim. From wolf.halton at gmail.com Thu Sep 18 06:06:57 2014 From: wolf.halton at gmail.com (Wolf Halton) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 06:06:57 -0400 Subject: [ale] [Mildly OT] Personal bliss or world conquest? In-Reply-To: <541A1B2E.1010306@fayettedigital.com> References: <541A1B2E.1010306@fayettedigital.com> Message-ID: Senior Security Engineer is a fun place to be. You get to see lots of different issues. Come up with solutions, hand it to other people to implement, sometimes. Hours are flexible. Wolf Halton -- This Apt Has Super Cow Powers - http://sourcefreedom.com Security in the Cloud - http://AtlantaCloudTech.com On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 7:37 PM, Jim Lynch wrote: > On 09/17/2014 02:06 PM, leam hall wrote: > >> My wife has put up with me pushing self and career. Trying to find >> ways to stay gainfully and happily employed for the next couple >> decades. >> > I gave up on that. I'm just trying to survive for a couple of more > decades enjoying life. > > :) > Jim. > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wolf.halton at gmail.com Thu Sep 18 06:20:30 2014 From: wolf.halton at gmail.com (Wolf Halton) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 06:20:30 -0400 Subject: [ale] totally OT: coffee In-Reply-To: <5419DA02.5080302@xy0.org> References: <5419DA02.5080302@xy0.org> Message-ID: Caff? Espresso *Frappuccino* - Starbucks Coffee-flavored desert. What the heck, you deserve it. At home - Starbucks Italian Roast - Dark, strong and wriggling. No sugar, no cream. Sometimes over ice. At work - Whatever they have, and if I make it, double the base recipe of coffee grounds. At Waffle House, ask for the dark coffee, and expect to have to send it back once, or wait for it to brew; because the first pot has been sitting too long, or they haven't got any made. Worth the wait. Wolf Halton -- This Apt Has Super Cow Powers - http://sourcefreedom.com Security in the Cloud - http://AtlantaCloudTech.com On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 2:59 PM, Ted W wrote: > On 09/16/14 14:42, Beddingfield, Allen wrote: > >> I find that the coffee bar in Whole Foods is exceptionally good. We >> don't have Caribou in Alabama, so I also end up frequenting Caribou to get >> caffeinated. I discovered them when I went to MN, and we really happy when >> I realized that they existed in Atlanta, too :D >> If there are any good locally owned ones that I may not have tried in the >> Sandy Springs area, I would love to know about them, because I'm over here >> now, and come over here occasionally for work. :) >> -- >> Allen Beddingfield >> Systems Engineer >> The University of Alabama >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [ale-bounces at ale.org] on behalf of Boris >> Borisov [bugyatl at gmail.com] >> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2014 1:32 PM >> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts >> Subject: [ale] totally OT: coffee >> >> Laterally I've been travelling around metro Atlanta a lot because of my >> job >> and at some point of the day good cup off coffee is needed. >> >> Your recommendations or favorites. >> >> >> -- >> Sent from Gmail Mobile >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: > 20140916/ecec5766/attachment.html> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> >> > They're not in Sandy Springs but if you find yourself in Little 5 Points > at some point, check out Java Lords. Good coffee, funky atmosphere. > > -- > Ted W. > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdp at algoloma.com Thu Sep 18 06:23:34 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 06:23:34 -0400 Subject: [ale] [Mildly OT] Personal bliss or world conquest? In-Reply-To: References: <541A1B2E.1010306@fayettedigital.com> Message-ID: <541AB2A6.4000608@algoloma.com> I must admit, I miss playing with other people's stuff and their budgets. My home budget just doesn't compare to that of a Fortune 50 company. :( On 09/18/2014 06:06 AM, Wolf Halton wrote: > Senior Security Engineer is a fun place to be. You get to see lots of > different issues. Come up with solutions, hand it to other people to > implement, sometimes. Hours are flexible. > > Wolf Halton > > -- > This Apt Has Super Cow Powers - http://sourcefreedom.com > Security in the Cloud - http://AtlantaCloudTech.com > > > > On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 7:37 PM, Jim Lynch > wrote: > >> On 09/17/2014 02:06 PM, leam hall wrote: >> >>> My wife has put up with me pushing self and career. Trying to find >>> ways to stay gainfully and happily employed for the next couple >>> decades. >>> >> I gave up on that. I'm just trying to survive for a couple of more >> decades enjoying life. >> >> :) From leamhall at gmail.com Thu Sep 18 06:30:49 2014 From: leamhall at gmail.com (Leam Hall) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 06:30:49 -0400 Subject: [ale] [Mildly OT] Personal bliss or world conquest? In-Reply-To: References: <541A1B2E.1010306@fayettedigital.com> Message-ID: <541AB459.1090009@gmail.com> So far I'm spending a lot of my time there. Mostly figuring out how to meet requirements, script a response, discuss policies, and plan for future improvements. Anyone hiring a part timer? :) On 09/18/14 06:06, Wolf Halton wrote: > Senior Security Engineer is a fun place to be. You get to see lots of > different issues. Come up with solutions, hand it to other people to > implement, sometimes. Hours are flexible. > > Wolf Halton > > -- > This Apt Has Super Cow Powers - http://sourcefreedom.com > Security in the Cloud - http://AtlantaCloudTech.com > > > > On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 7:37 PM, Jim Lynch > wrote: > >> On 09/17/2014 02:06 PM, leam hall wrote: >> >>> My wife has put up with me pushing self and career. Trying to find >>> ways to stay gainfully and happily employed for the next couple >>> decades. >>> >> I gave up on that. I'm just trying to survive for a couple of more >> decades enjoying life. >> >> :) >> Jim. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- http://31challenge.net http://31challenge.net/insight From leamhall at gmail.com Thu Sep 18 06:36:10 2014 From: leamhall at gmail.com (Leam Hall) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 06:36:10 -0400 Subject: [ale] [Mildly OT] Personal bliss or world conquest? In-Reply-To: <541AB2A6.4000608@algoloma.com> References: <541A1B2E.1010306@fayettedigital.com> <541AB2A6.4000608@algoloma.com> Message-ID: <541AB59A.5060809@gmail.com> I've got no budget, but if you want some resume bullets, I'm your huckleberry. The Aqueduct project aims to help DoD organizations reach compliance. Red Hat has forked our code and seems to be rolling it up into their product. We're still chugging along, but slowly. While Aqueduct is currently mostly DoD slanted the original goals remain; to meet other compliance needs like PCI and on more than Linux. At least as far as scripts can go. We're using Bourne Shell and Bash, and have some Puppet content. I just gotta prod us onto a better repo. Fedorahosted broke our SVN link and it doesn't seem to be a priority for them to fix. Leam On 09/18/14 06:23, JD wrote: > I must admit, I miss playing with other people's stuff and their budgets. My > home budget just doesn't compare to that of a Fortune 50 company. :( > > > On 09/18/2014 06:06 AM, Wolf Halton wrote: >> Senior Security Engineer is a fun place to be. You get to see lots of >> different issues. Come up with solutions, hand it to other people to >> implement, sometimes. Hours are flexible. >> >> Wolf Halton >> >> -- >> This Apt Has Super Cow Powers - http://sourcefreedom.com >> Security in the Cloud - http://AtlantaCloudTech.com >> >> >> >> On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 7:37 PM, Jim Lynch >> wrote: >> >>> On 09/17/2014 02:06 PM, leam hall wrote: >>> >>>> My wife has put up with me pushing self and career. Trying to find >>>> ways to stay gainfully and happily employed for the next couple >>>> decades. >>>> >>> I gave up on that. I'm just trying to survive for a couple of more >>> decades enjoying life. >>> >>> :) > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- http://31challenge.net http://31challenge.net/insight From rb211 at tds.net Thu Sep 18 06:51:33 2014 From: rb211 at tds.net (William Bagwell) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 06:51:33 -0400 Subject: [ale] totally OT: coffee In-Reply-To: References: <5419DA02.5080302@xy0.org> Message-ID: <201409180651.33961.rb211@tds.net> On Thursday 18 September 2014, Wolf Halton wrote: > At work - Whatever they have, and if I make it, double the base recipe of > coffee grounds. Those of us who use coffee as our exclusive source of fluids hate people like you. Work coffee (pre-measured filter packs) is already a bit stronger than I prefer and when someone uses two it is downrite nasty. -- William From JLightner at dsservices.com Thu Sep 18 08:52:53 2014 From: JLightner at dsservices.com (Lightner, Jeff) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 12:52:53 +0000 Subject: [ale] totally OT: coffee In-Reply-To: <201409180651.33961.rb211@tds.net> References: <5419DA02.5080302@xy0.org> <201409180651.33961.rb211@tds.net> Message-ID: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EB2C46@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> I always chide folks who talk about how coffee tastes. We true addicts drink it for the reason God intended so the only real requirement is caffeine and plenty of it. Starbucks annoyed me twice within a week so I make a point of avoiding their shops: 1) Their K-cup package sold in grocery stores is exactly the same dimension as others sell but only has 10 K cups instead of 12. While it is labeled (on only 1 side) it is not highlighted that they're ripping you off even at the higher price you pay for that package already. 2) I went to a Starbucks and asked for a dark coffee and was told all they had was "blonde". An organization that can make the most esoteric mixtures of swill in the universe can't make a simple cup of dark coffee on demand? -----Original Message----- From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of William Bagwell Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 6:53 AM To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [ale] totally OT: coffee On Thursday 18 September 2014, Wolf Halton wrote: > At work - Whatever they have, and if I make it, double the base recipe > of coffee grounds. Those of us who use coffee as our exclusive source of fluids hate people like you. Work coffee (pre-measured filter packs) is already a bit stronger than I prefer and when someone uses two it is downrite nasty. -- William _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo Athena(r), Created for the Cause(tm) Making a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Cancer __________________________________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged or confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you From pbcartwright at gmail.com Thu Sep 18 08:59:32 2014 From: pbcartwright at gmail.com (Paul Cartwright) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 08:59:32 -0400 Subject: [ale] totally OT: coffee In-Reply-To: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EB2C46@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> References: <5419DA02.5080302@xy0.org> <201409180651.33961.rb211@tds.net> <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EB2C46@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> Message-ID: <541AD734.6090109@gmail.com> at least we have Jittery Joe's here in Athens:) I grind my own beans, make my own coffee, and it is black, no sugar. > I always chide folks who talk about how coffee tastes. We true addicts drink it for the reason God intended so the only real requirement is caffeine and plenty of it. > > Starbucks annoyed me twice within a week so I make a point of avoiding their shops: > 1) Their K-cup package sold in grocery stores is exactly the same dimension as others sell but only has 10 K cups instead of 12. While it is labeled (on only 1 side) it is not highlighted that they're ripping you off even at the higher price you pay for that package already. > 2) I went to a Starbucks and asked for a dark coffee and was told all they had was "blonde". An organization that can make the most esoteric mixtures of swill in the universe can't make a simple cup of dark coffee on demand? > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of William Bagwell > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 6:53 AM > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts > Subject: Re: [ale] totally OT: coffee > > On Thursday 18 September 2014, Wolf Halton wrote: >> At work - Whatever they have, and if I make it, double the base recipe >> of coffee grounds. > Those of us who use coffee as our exclusive source of fluids hate people like you. Work coffee (pre-measured filter packs) is already a bit stronger than I prefer and when someone uses two it is downrite nasty. > -- > William > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > Athena(r), Created for the Cause(tm) > Making a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Cancer > > __________________________________________________________ > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged > > or confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended > > recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, > > copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information > > is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic > > transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that > > you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 From hooterpincher at gmail.com Thu Sep 18 09:11:48 2014 From: hooterpincher at gmail.com (Charles Shapiro) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 09:11:48 -0400 Subject: [ale] [Mildly OT] Personal bliss or world conquest? In-Reply-To: <541AB59A.5060809@gmail.com> References: <541A1B2E.1010306@fayettedigital.com> <541AB2A6.4000608@algoloma.com> <541AB59A.5060809@gmail.com> Message-ID: I will be writing code until my brain poops out from age. -- CHS On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 6:36 AM, Leam Hall wrote: > I've got no budget, but if you want some resume bullets, I'm your > huckleberry. The Aqueduct project aims to help DoD organizations reach > compliance. Red Hat has forked our code and seems to be rolling it up into > their product. We're still chugging along, but slowly. > > While Aqueduct is currently mostly DoD slanted the original goals remain; > to meet other compliance needs like PCI and on more than Linux. At least as > far as scripts can go. We're using Bourne Shell and Bash, and have some > Puppet content. > > I just gotta prod us onto a better repo. Fedorahosted broke our SVN link > and it doesn't seem to be a priority for them to fix. > > Leam > > > > On 09/18/14 06:23, JD wrote: > >> I must admit, I miss playing with other people's stuff and their budgets. >> My >> home budget just doesn't compare to that of a Fortune 50 company. :( >> >> >> On 09/18/2014 06:06 AM, Wolf Halton wrote: >> >>> Senior Security Engineer is a fun place to be. You get to see lots of >>> different issues. Come up with solutions, hand it to other people to >>> implement, sometimes. Hours are flexible. >>> >>> Wolf Halton >>> >>> -- >>> This Apt Has Super Cow Powers - http://sourcefreedom.com >>> Security in the Cloud - http://AtlantaCloudTech.com >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 7:37 PM, Jim Lynch < >>> ale_nospam at fayettedigital.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> On 09/17/2014 02:06 PM, leam hall wrote: >>>> >>>> My wife has put up with me pushing self and career. Trying to find >>>>> ways to stay gainfully and happily employed for the next couple >>>>> decades. >>>>> >>>>> I gave up on that. I'm just trying to survive for a couple of more >>>> decades enjoying life. >>>> >>>> :) >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> >> > -- > http://31challenge.net > http://31challenge.net/insight > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hooterpincher at gmail.com Thu Sep 18 09:13:26 2014 From: hooterpincher at gmail.com (Charles Shapiro) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 09:13:26 -0400 Subject: [ale] totally OT: coffee In-Reply-To: <541AD734.6090109@gmail.com> References: <5419DA02.5080302@xy0.org> <201409180651.33961.rb211@tds.net> <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EB2C46@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> <541AD734.6090109@gmail.com> Message-ID: Methamphetamine in water is my preferred stimulant. -- CHS On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 8:59 AM, Paul Cartwright wrote: > at least we have Jittery Joe's here in Athens:) > I grind my own beans, make my own coffee, and it is black, no sugar. > > > I always chide folks who talk about how coffee tastes. We true addicts > drink it for the reason God intended so the only real requirement is > caffeine and plenty of it. > > > > Starbucks annoyed me twice within a week so I make a point of avoiding > their shops: > > 1) Their K-cup package sold in grocery stores is exactly the same > dimension as others sell but only has 10 K cups instead of 12. While it > is labeled (on only 1 side) it is not highlighted that they're ripping you > off even at the higher price you pay for that package already. > > 2) I went to a Starbucks and asked for a dark coffee and was told all > they had was "blonde". An organization that can make the most esoteric > mixtures of swill in the universe can't make a simple cup of dark coffee on > demand? > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of > William Bagwell > > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 6:53 AM > > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts > > Subject: Re: [ale] totally OT: coffee > > > > On Thursday 18 September 2014, Wolf Halton wrote: > >> At work - Whatever they have, and if I make it, double the base recipe > >> of coffee grounds. > > Those of us who use coffee as our exclusive source of fluids hate people > like you. Work coffee (pre-measured filter packs) is already a bit stronger > than I prefer and when someone uses two it is downrite nasty. > > -- > > William > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > Athena(r), Created for the Cause(tm) > > Making a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Cancer > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged > > > > or confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended > > > > recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, > > > > copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information > > > > is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic > > > > transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that > > > > you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > > > > -- > Paul Cartwright > Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Thu Sep 18 09:18:53 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 09:18:53 -0400 Subject: [ale] totally OT: coffee In-Reply-To: <541AD734.6090109@gmail.com> References: <5419DA02.5080302@xy0.org> <201409180651.33961.rb211@tds.net> <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EB2C46@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> <541AD734.6090109@gmail.com> Message-ID: A friend is from Ethiopia. At dinner after a visit back home, he produced a large bag of green coffee beans, roasted them in a skillet (and set off the smoke alarm - he now does this part outside), ground the now brown/black shiny beans, poured boiling water over them and poured through a strainer into coffee cups after about 5 minutes of swirling to pot. Best Coffee EVER! I almost cried it was so good. I didn't sleep a wink that night either. It was pretty much a cup of double strength expresso. On Sep 18, 2014 9:01 AM, "Paul Cartwright" wrote: > at least we have Jittery Joe's here in Athens:) > I grind my own beans, make my own coffee, and it is black, no sugar. > > > I always chide folks who talk about how coffee tastes. We true addicts > drink it for the reason God intended so the only real requirement is > caffeine and plenty of it. > > > > Starbucks annoyed me twice within a week so I make a point of avoiding > their shops: > > 1) Their K-cup package sold in grocery stores is exactly the same > dimension as others sell but only has 10 K cups instead of 12. While it > is labeled (on only 1 side) it is not highlighted that they're ripping you > off even at the higher price you pay for that package already. > > 2) I went to a Starbucks and asked for a dark coffee and was told all > they had was "blonde". An organization that can make the most esoteric > mixtures of swill in the universe can't make a simple cup of dark coffee on > demand? > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of > William Bagwell > > Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2014 6:53 AM > > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts > > Subject: Re: [ale] totally OT: coffee > > > > On Thursday 18 September 2014, Wolf Halton wrote: > >> At work - Whatever they have, and if I make it, double the base recipe > >> of coffee grounds. > > Those of us who use coffee as our exclusive source of fluids hate people > like you. Work coffee (pre-measured filter packs) is already a bit stronger > than I prefer and when someone uses two it is downrite nasty. > > -- > > William > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > Athena(r), Created for the Cause(tm) > > Making a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Cancer > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged > > > > or confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended > > > > recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, > > > > copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information > > > > is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic > > > > transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that > > > > you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > > > > -- > Paul Cartwright > Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Thu Sep 18 09:20:30 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 09:20:30 -0400 Subject: [ale] [Mildly OT] Personal bliss or world conquest? In-Reply-To: References: <541A1B2E.1010306@fayettedigital.com> <541AB2A6.4000608@algoloma.com> <541AB59A.5060809@gmail.com> Message-ID: Still juggling syntax issues until senility? :-) On Sep 18, 2014 9:14 AM, "Charles Shapiro" wrote: > I will be writing code until my brain poops out from age. > > -- CHS > > > On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 6:36 AM, Leam Hall wrote: > > > I've got no budget, but if you want some resume bullets, I'm your > > huckleberry. The Aqueduct project aims to help DoD organizations reach > > compliance. Red Hat has forked our code and seems to be rolling it up > into > > their product. We're still chugging along, but slowly. > > > > While Aqueduct is currently mostly DoD slanted the original goals remain; > > to meet other compliance needs like PCI and on more than Linux. At least > as > > far as scripts can go. We're using Bourne Shell and Bash, and have some > > Puppet content. > > > > I just gotta prod us onto a better repo. Fedorahosted broke our SVN link > > and it doesn't seem to be a priority for them to fix. > > > > Leam > > > > > > > > On 09/18/14 06:23, JD wrote: > > > >> I must admit, I miss playing with other people's stuff and their > budgets. > >> My > >> home budget just doesn't compare to that of a Fortune 50 company. :( > >> > >> > >> On 09/18/2014 06:06 AM, Wolf Halton wrote: > >> > >>> Senior Security Engineer is a fun place to be. You get to see lots of > >>> different issues. Come up with solutions, hand it to other people to > >>> implement, sometimes. Hours are flexible. > >>> > >>> Wolf Halton > >>> > >>> -- > >>> This Apt Has Super Cow Powers - http://sourcefreedom.com > >>> Security in the Cloud - http://AtlantaCloudTech.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 7:37 PM, Jim Lynch < > >>> ale_nospam at fayettedigital.com> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> On 09/17/2014 02:06 PM, leam hall wrote: > >>>> > >>>> My wife has put up with me pushing self and career. Trying to find > >>>>> ways to stay gainfully and happily employed for the next couple > >>>>> decades. > >>>>> > >>>>> I gave up on that. I'm just trying to survive for a couple of more > >>>> decades enjoying life. > >>>> > >>>> :) > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >> Ale mailing list > >> Ale at ale.org > >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > >> > >> > > -- > > http://31challenge.net > > http://31challenge.net/insight > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140918/791a3343/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pbcartwright at gmail.com Thu Sep 18 09:26:10 2014 From: pbcartwright at gmail.com (Paul Cartwright) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 09:26:10 -0400 Subject: [ale] totally OT: coffee In-Reply-To: References: <5419DA02.5080302@xy0.org> <201409180651.33961.rb211@tds.net> <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EB2C46@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> <541AD734.6090109@gmail.com> Message-ID: <541ADD72.9090801@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hooterpincher at gmail.com Thu Sep 18 09:39:06 2014 From: hooterpincher at gmail.com (Charles Shapiro) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 09:39:06 -0400 Subject: [ale] [Mildly OT] Personal bliss or world conquest? In-Reply-To: References: <541A1B2E.1010306@fayettedigital.com> <541AB2A6.4000608@algoloma.com> <541AB59A.5060809@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yep. My retirement plans include a Doom implementation written exclusively in INTERCAL. -- CHS On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 9:20 AM, Jim Kinney wrote: > Still juggling syntax issues until senility? :-) > On Sep 18, 2014 9:14 AM, "Charles Shapiro" > wrote: > > > I will be writing code until my brain poops out from age. > > > > -- CHS > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 6:36 AM, Leam Hall wrote: > > > > > I've got no budget, but if you want some resume bullets, I'm your > > > huckleberry. The Aqueduct project aims to help DoD organizations reach > > > compliance. Red Hat has forked our code and seems to be rolling it up > > into > > > their product. We're still chugging along, but slowly. > > > > > > While Aqueduct is currently mostly DoD slanted the original goals > remain; > > > to meet other compliance needs like PCI and on more than Linux. At > least > > as > > > far as scripts can go. We're using Bourne Shell and Bash, and have some > > > Puppet content. > > > > > > I just gotta prod us onto a better repo. Fedorahosted broke our SVN > link > > > and it doesn't seem to be a priority for them to fix. > > > > > > Leam > > > > > > > > > > > > On 09/18/14 06:23, JD wrote: > > > > > >> I must admit, I miss playing with other people's stuff and their > > budgets. > > >> My > > >> home budget just doesn't compare to that of a Fortune 50 company. :( > > >> > > >> > > >> On 09/18/2014 06:06 AM, Wolf Halton wrote: > > >> > > >>> Senior Security Engineer is a fun place to be. You get to see lots > of > > >>> different issues. Come up with solutions, hand it to other people to > > >>> implement, sometimes. Hours are flexible. > > >>> > > >>> Wolf Halton > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> This Apt Has Super Cow Powers - http://sourcefreedom.com > > >>> Security in the Cloud - http://AtlantaCloudTech.com > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 7:37 PM, Jim Lynch < > > >>> ale_nospam at fayettedigital.com> > > >>> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> On 09/17/2014 02:06 PM, leam hall wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>> My wife has put up with me pushing self and career. Trying to find > > >>>>> ways to stay gainfully and happily employed for the next couple > > >>>>> decades. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> I gave up on that. I'm just trying to survive for a couple of > more > > >>>> decades enjoying life. > > >>>> > > >>>> :) > > >>>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >> Ale mailing list > > >> Ale at ale.org > > >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > >> > > >> > > > -- > > > http://31challenge.net > > > http://31challenge.net/insight > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Ale mailing list > > > Ale at ale.org > > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > > > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140918/791a3343/attachment.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140918/c7b2d385/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gccfof5 at gmail.com Thu Sep 18 10:00:36 2014 From: gccfof5 at gmail.com (Greg Clifton) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 10:00:36 -0400 Subject: [ale] totally OT: coffee In-Reply-To: <541ADD72.9090801@gmail.com> References: <5419DA02.5080302@xy0.org> <201409180651.33961.rb211@tds.net> <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EB2C46@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> <541AD734.6090109@gmail.com> <541ADD72.9090801@gmail.com> Message-ID: I second the Caribou and find that Dunkin Dounuts, QT, Racetrack and McDonalds all have MUCH better coffee than Starbucks. From a historical perspective, I think "Dancing Goat" has to be the best name for a coffee shoppe, but I have never actually tried their brew so I can't vouch for the taste. For anyone interested in the subject, *Uncommon Grounds*, The Story of Coffee is an interesting read. Who knew that Mocha was actually the (Somali?) port from which coffee beans were originally shipped? The book also goes into some detail about the geopolitical influences excerted as a result of the demand for coffee over the centuries. On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 9:26 AM, Paul Cartwright wrote: > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140918/c8b86100/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pbcartwright at gmail.com Thu Sep 18 10:32:05 2014 From: pbcartwright at gmail.com (Paul Cartwright) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 10:32:05 -0400 Subject: [ale] totally OT: coffee In-Reply-To: References: <5419DA02.5080302@xy0.org> <201409180651.33961.rb211@tds.net> <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EB2C46@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> <541AD734.6090109@gmail.com> <541ADD72.9090801@gmail.com> Message-ID: <541AECE5.4050205@gmail.com> On 09/18/2014 10:00 AM, Greg Clifton wrote: > For anyone interested in the subject, *Uncommon Grounds*, The Story of > Coffee is an interesting read. Who knew that Mocha was actually the > (Somali?) port from which coffee beans were originally shipped? The book > also goes into some detail about the geopolitical influences excerted as a > result of the demand for coffee over the centuries. coffee is addictive.. try going without it for a day.. just like booze, pills, whatever.. people will do A LOT to keep it flowing:-0) -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 From hooterpincher at gmail.com Thu Sep 18 10:53:08 2014 From: hooterpincher at gmail.com (Charles Shapiro) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 10:53:08 -0400 Subject: [ale] totally OT: coffee In-Reply-To: References: <5419DA02.5080302@xy0.org> <201409180651.33961.rb211@tds.net> <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EB2C46@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> <541AD734.6090109@gmail.com> <541ADD72.9090801@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yeh, the story of the Grocery Wars of the late 19th and early 20th century was pretty fun. Also recommended: History of the World in 6 glasses ( http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/history-of-the-world-in-6-glasses-tom-standage/1007653113?ean=9780802715524 ). Beer, wine, whiskey, coffee, tea, coke. -- CHS On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 10:00 AM, Greg Clifton wrote: > I second the Caribou and find that Dunkin Dounuts, QT, Racetrack and > McDonalds all have MUCH better coffee than Starbucks. From a historical > perspective, I think "Dancing Goat" has to be the best name for a coffee > shoppe, but I have never actually tried their brew so I can't vouch for the > taste. > > For anyone interested in the subject, *Uncommon Grounds*, The Story of > Coffee is an interesting read. Who knew that Mocha was actually the > (Somali?) port from which coffee beans were originally shipped? The book > also goes into some detail about the geopolitical influences excerted as a > result of the demand for coffee over the centuries. > > On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 9:26 AM, Paul Cartwright > wrote: > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > > > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140918/c8b86100/attachment.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140918/6e51c7fa/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From oloryn at benshome.net Thu Sep 18 12:12:48 2014 From: oloryn at benshome.net (Ben Coleman) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 12:12:48 -0400 Subject: [ale] [Mildly OT] Personal bliss or world conquest? In-Reply-To: References: <541A1B2E.1010306@fayettedigital.com> <541AB2A6.4000608@algoloma.com> <541AB59A.5060809@gmail.com> Message-ID: <541B0480.4080702@benshome.net> On 9/18/2014 09:39, Charles Shapiro wrote: > Yep. My retirement plans include a Doom implementation written exclusively > in INTERCAL. That's certainly one way to convince people that you're senile. Ben -- Ben Coleman oloryn at benshome.net | For the wise man, doing right trumps http://oloryn.benshome.net/ | looking right. For the fool, looking Amateur Radio NJ8J | right trumps doing right. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 196 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Thu Sep 18 12:26:28 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 12:26:28 -0400 Subject: [ale] totally OT: coffee In-Reply-To: <541AECE5.4050205@gmail.com> References: <5419DA02.5080302@xy0.org> <201409180651.33961.rb211@tds.net> <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EB2C46@ATMEXDB03.dsw.net> <541AD734.6090109@gmail.com> <541ADD72.9090801@gmail.com> <541AECE5.4050205@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 10:32 AM, Paul Cartwright wrote: > On 09/18/2014 10:00 AM, Greg Clifton wrote: > > For anyone interested in the subject, *Uncommon Grounds*, The Story of > > Coffee is an interesting read. Who knew that Mocha was actually the > > (Somali?) port from which coffee beans were originally shipped? The book > > also goes into some detail about the geopolitical influences excerted as > a > > result of the demand for coffee over the centuries. > coffee is addictive.. try going without it for a day.. just like booze, > pills, whatever.. people will do A LOT to keep it flowing:-0) > Worst headache ever was when the coffee I got on vacation one morning was decaf. Within 2 minutes of getting cup of fully leaded joe, headache was _gone_. I started cutting back from pots to cups right then. I now use 1/2 decaf and drink 2 cups (mugs) in the morning. No more. Don't get between me and my first mug, though. Not like it's out of my hand for any reason other than a house fire. > > > -- > Paul Cartwright > Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Thu Sep 18 12:59:40 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 12:59:40 -0400 Subject: [ale] [OT] Because you're a lazy slob behind that keyboard Message-ID: http://www.instructables.com/id/Hamster-Wheel-Standing-Desk/?ALLSTEPS -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pete.hardie at gmail.com Thu Sep 18 13:49:45 2014 From: pete.hardie at gmail.com (Pete Hardie) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 13:49:45 -0400 Subject: [ale] [OT] Because you're a lazy slob behind that keyboard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Way, WAAAY too much making reality out of a metaphor..... On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > http://www.instructables.com/id/Hamster-Wheel-Standing-Desk/?ALLSTEPS > > -- > -- > James P. Kinney III > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. > It won't fatten the dog. > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > * > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140918/d3fd0679/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- Pete Hardie -------- Better Living Through Bitmaps -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From savithari at gmail.com Thu Sep 18 15:04:36 2014 From: savithari at gmail.com (Narahari 'n' Savitha) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 15:04:36 -0400 Subject: [ale] ALE-Central Meeting Thursday, Sept 18 7:30 pm In-Reply-To: References: <1558387139.3672.1410810523697.JavaMail.root@insightsys.com> Message-ID: How much knowledge of node.js is expected from the attendee ? I have heard about node.js but thats about it I have. On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 3:52 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > It was the best I could do :-) No way to add the thin, aging voice slurred > by beer :-) > > On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Scott Plante > wrote: > > > LOL! : ...and a lot of "back in my day" will follow... > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From: *"Jim Kinney" > > *To: *"Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts - Yes! We run Linux!" > > *Sent: *Monday, September 15, 2014 12:09:46 PM > > *Subject: *[ale] ALE-Central Meeting Thursday, Sept 18 7:30 pm > > > > > > Using Node.js to monitor SNMP (for fun and profit) > > > > A technical How-To talk on using Node.js as a way to extract useful data > > from SNMP traffic for system health, databases, UPS battery life, > anything > > that can be run over an SNMP process. > > > > Tommie Jones is a Software Engineer whose been developing for Unix/Linux > > for most of the last 18 years. His interests include data analytics and > > digital signal processing. Basically anything that collects, processes, > > stores and analyzes data. His website is located at > > http://www.atlantageek.com > > > > > > The meeting will be held at 7:30 in the 5th floor classroom of the PAIS > > Building (Psychology And Interdisciplinary Sciences) on Emory campus. > > > > 36 Eagle Row > > Atlanta, GA 30322 > > > > > > > https://maps.google.com/maps?q=36+eagle+row,+Atlanta,+GA+30322&hl=en&sll=33.785157,-84.327141&sspn=0.062277,0.132093&t=h&hnear=36+Eagle+Row,+Atlanta,+Georgia+30322&z=17 > > > > The lot nearest the building is $0 after 5pm but still uses a ticket > > system. Be sure to use the South elevator to enter the 5th floor to avoid > > be confined for study in the psychology lab on the North end of the > > building. Seriously. I know this bunch. The psych crowd would _LOVE_ to > > tinker with what's left your mind. So either take the elevator up one > floor > > or use the stairs and go to the other end of the building to travel up to > > the 5th floor. > > > > Libations and general orneriness and a lot of "back in my day" will > follow > > at Meltons. > > > > -- > > -- > > James P. Kinney III > > > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you > gain > > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own > tail. > > It won't fatten the dog. > > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > > > > > -- > -- > James P. Kinney III > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. > It won't fatten the dog. > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > * > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140915/b9d4d89e/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Thu Sep 18 15:13:50 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 15:13:50 -0400 Subject: [ale] ALE-Central Meeting Thursday, Sept 18 7:30 pm In-Reply-To: References: <1558387139.3672.1410810523697.JavaMail.root@insightsys.com> Message-ID: It's not a class with a test at the end, so none is required to attend. On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 3:04 PM, Narahari 'n' Savitha wrote: > How much knowledge of node.js is expected from the attendee ? I have heard > about node.js but thats about it I have. > > > On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 3:52 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > > > It was the best I could do :-) No way to add the thin, aging voice > slurred > > by beer :-) > > > > On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Scott Plante > > wrote: > > > > > LOL! : ...and a lot of "back in my day" will follow... > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > *From: *"Jim Kinney" > > > *To: *"Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts - Yes! We run Linux!" > > > *Sent: *Monday, September 15, 2014 12:09:46 PM > > > *Subject: *[ale] ALE-Central Meeting Thursday, Sept 18 7:30 pm > > > > > > > > > Using Node.js to monitor SNMP (for fun and profit) > > > > > > A technical How-To talk on using Node.js as a way to extract useful > data > > > from SNMP traffic for system health, databases, UPS battery life, > > anything > > > that can be run over an SNMP process. > > > > > > Tommie Jones is a Software Engineer whose been developing for > Unix/Linux > > > for most of the last 18 years. His interests include data analytics and > > > digital signal processing. Basically anything that collects, processes, > > > stores and analyzes data. His website is located at > > > http://www.atlantageek.com > > > > > > > > > The meeting will be held at 7:30 in the 5th floor classroom of the PAIS > > > Building (Psychology And Interdisciplinary Sciences) on Emory campus. > > > > > > 36 Eagle Row > > > Atlanta, GA 30322 > > > > > > > > > > > > https://maps.google.com/maps?q=36+eagle+row,+Atlanta,+GA+30322&hl=en&sll=33.785157,-84.327141&sspn=0.062277,0.132093&t=h&hnear=36+Eagle+Row,+Atlanta,+Georgia+30322&z=17 > > > > > > The lot nearest the building is $0 after 5pm but still uses a ticket > > > system. Be sure to use the South elevator to enter the 5th floor to > avoid > > > be confined for study in the psychology lab on the North end of the > > > building. Seriously. I know this bunch. The psych crowd would _LOVE_ to > > > tinker with what's left your mind. So either take the elevator up one > > floor > > > or use the stairs and go to the other end of the building to travel up > to > > > the 5th floor. > > > > > > Libations and general orneriness and a lot of "back in my day" will > > follow > > > at Meltons. > > > > > > -- > > > -- > > > James P. Kinney III > > > > > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you > > gain > > > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own > > tail. > > > It won't fatten the dog. > > > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -- > > James P. Kinney III > > > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you > gain > > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own > tail. > > It won't fatten the dog. > > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > > > > *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > > * > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > > > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140915/b9d4d89e/attachment.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140918/0ac7a582/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From savithari at gmail.com Thu Sep 18 15:21:17 2014 From: savithari at gmail.com (Narahari 'n' Savitha) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 15:21:17 -0400 Subject: [ale] ALE-Central Meeting Thursday, Sept 18 7:30 pm In-Reply-To: References: <1558387139.3672.1410810523697.JavaMail.root@insightsys.com> Message-ID: He He. I understand. What I am trying to know is, if I am not knowledgeable in node.js how much can I benefit from the talk. Does the talk start with intro/how to on node js ? How to write node.js code with the async model it offers ? How to debug ? Tools IDE if any etc., Any info on SNMP will be talked ? -Narahari On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > It's not a class with a test at the end, so none is required to attend. > > On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 3:04 PM, Narahari 'n' Savitha > > wrote: > > > How much knowledge of node.js is expected from the attendee ? I have > heard > > about node.js but thats about it I have. > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 3:52 PM, Jim Kinney > wrote: > > > > > It was the best I could do :-) No way to add the thin, aging voice > > slurred > > > by beer :-) > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Scott Plante > > > wrote: > > > > > > > LOL! : ...and a lot of "back in my day" will follow... > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > *From: *"Jim Kinney" > > > > *To: *"Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts - Yes! We run Linux!" > > > > *Sent: *Monday, September 15, 2014 12:09:46 PM > > > > *Subject: *[ale] ALE-Central Meeting Thursday, Sept 18 7:30 pm > > > > > > > > > > > > Using Node.js to monitor SNMP (for fun and profit) > > > > > > > > A technical How-To talk on using Node.js as a way to extract useful > > data > > > > from SNMP traffic for system health, databases, UPS battery life, > > > anything > > > > that can be run over an SNMP process. > > > > > > > > Tommie Jones is a Software Engineer whose been developing for > > Unix/Linux > > > > for most of the last 18 years. His interests include data analytics > and > > > > digital signal processing. Basically anything that collects, > processes, > > > > stores and analyzes data. His website is located at > > > > http://www.atlantageek.com > > > > > > > > > > > > The meeting will be held at 7:30 in the 5th floor classroom of the > PAIS > > > > Building (Psychology And Interdisciplinary Sciences) on Emory campus. > > > > > > > > 36 Eagle Row > > > > Atlanta, GA 30322 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://maps.google.com/maps?q=36+eagle+row,+Atlanta,+GA+30322&hl=en&sll=33.785157,-84.327141&sspn=0.062277,0.132093&t=h&hnear=36+Eagle+Row,+Atlanta,+Georgia+30322&z=17 > > > > > > > > The lot nearest the building is $0 after 5pm but still uses a ticket > > > > system. Be sure to use the South elevator to enter the 5th floor to > > avoid > > > > be confined for study in the psychology lab on the North end of the > > > > building. Seriously. I know this bunch. The psych crowd would _LOVE_ > to > > > > tinker with what's left your mind. So either take the elevator up one > > > floor > > > > or use the stairs and go to the other end of the building to travel > up > > to > > > > the 5th floor. > > > > > > > > Libations and general orneriness and a lot of "back in my day" will > > > follow > > > > at Meltons. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > -- > > > > James P. Kinney III > > > > > > > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you > > > gain > > > > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own > > > tail. > > > > It won't fatten the dog. > > > > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > -- > > > James P. Kinney III > > > > > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you > > gain > > > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own > > tail. > > > It won't fatten the dog. > > > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > > > > > > > *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > > > * > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > URL: < > > > > > > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140915/b9d4d89e/attachment.html > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Ale mailing list > > > Ale at ale.org > > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > > > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140918/0ac7a582/attachment.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > > > -- > -- > James P. Kinney III > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. > It won't fatten the dog. > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > * > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140918/466ff7ce/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Thu Sep 18 15:39:41 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 15:39:41 -0400 Subject: [ale] ALE-Central Meeting Thursday, Sept 18 7:30 pm In-Reply-To: References: <1558387139.3672.1410810523697.JavaMail.root@insightsys.com> Message-ID: It's a talk on how to use node.js to work with SNMP data. Come on down and find out as I've not heard the talk before. On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 3:21 PM, Narahari 'n' Savitha wrote: > He He. I understand. What I am trying to know is, if I am not > knowledgeable in node.js how much can I benefit from the talk. > > Does the talk start with intro/how to on node js ? > > How to write node.js code with the async model it offers ? > > How to debug ? Tools IDE if any etc., > > Any info on SNMP will be talked ? > > -Narahari > > On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > > > It's not a class with a test at the end, so none is required to attend. > > > > On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 3:04 PM, Narahari 'n' Savitha < > savithari at gmail.com > > > > > wrote: > > > > > How much knowledge of node.js is expected from the attendee ? I have > > heard > > > about node.js but thats about it I have. > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 3:52 PM, Jim Kinney > > wrote: > > > > > > > It was the best I could do :-) No way to add the thin, aging voice > > > slurred > > > > by beer :-) > > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Scott Plante < > splante at insightsys.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > LOL! : ...and a lot of "back in my day" will follow... > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > *From: *"Jim Kinney" > > > > > *To: *"Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts - Yes! We run Linux!" < > ale at ale.org> > > > > > *Sent: *Monday, September 15, 2014 12:09:46 PM > > > > > *Subject: *[ale] ALE-Central Meeting Thursday, Sept 18 7:30 pm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Using Node.js to monitor SNMP (for fun and profit) > > > > > > > > > > A technical How-To talk on using Node.js as a way to extract useful > > > data > > > > > from SNMP traffic for system health, databases, UPS battery life, > > > > anything > > > > > that can be run over an SNMP process. > > > > > > > > > > Tommie Jones is a Software Engineer whose been developing for > > > Unix/Linux > > > > > for most of the last 18 years. His interests include data analytics > > and > > > > > digital signal processing. Basically anything that collects, > > processes, > > > > > stores and analyzes data. His website is located at > > > > > http://www.atlantageek.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The meeting will be held at 7:30 in the 5th floor classroom of the > > PAIS > > > > > Building (Psychology And Interdisciplinary Sciences) on Emory > campus. > > > > > > > > > > 36 Eagle Row > > > > > Atlanta, GA 30322 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://maps.google.com/maps?q=36+eagle+row,+Atlanta,+GA+30322&hl=en&sll=33.785157,-84.327141&sspn=0.062277,0.132093&t=h&hnear=36+Eagle+Row,+Atlanta,+Georgia+30322&z=17 > > > > > > > > > > The lot nearest the building is $0 after 5pm but still uses a > ticket > > > > > system. Be sure to use the South elevator to enter the 5th floor to > > > avoid > > > > > be confined for study in the psychology lab on the North end of the > > > > > building. Seriously. I know this bunch. The psych crowd would > _LOVE_ > > to > > > > > tinker with what's left your mind. So either take the elevator up > one > > > > floor > > > > > or use the stairs and go to the other end of the building to travel > > up > > > to > > > > > the 5th floor. > > > > > > > > > > Libations and general orneriness and a lot of "back in my day" will > > > > follow > > > > > at Meltons. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > -- > > > > > James P. Kinney III > > > > > > > > > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What > you > > > > gain > > > > > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his > own > > > > tail. > > > > > It won't fatten the dog. > > > > > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > -- > > > > James P. Kinney III > > > > > > > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you > > > gain > > > > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own > > > tail. > > > > It won't fatten the dog. > > > > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > > > > > > > > > > *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > > > > * > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > > URL: < > > > > > > > > > > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140915/b9d4d89e/attachment.html > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Ale mailing list > > > > Ale at ale.org > > > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > URL: < > > > > > > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140918/0ac7a582/attachment.html > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Ale mailing list > > > Ale at ale.org > > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -- > > James P. Kinney III > > > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you > gain > > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own > tail. > > It won't fatten the dog. > > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > > > > *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > > * > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > > > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140918/466ff7ce/attachment.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140918/b9c4eb48/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rb211 at tds.net Thu Sep 18 20:45:31 2014 From: rb211 at tds.net (William Bagwell) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 20:45:31 -0400 Subject: [ale] [OT] Because you're a lazy slob behind that keyboard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <201409182045.31236.rb211@tds.net> I want one! Of course I would want to extract useful energy from it which would complicate the design. That picture down near the bottom reminds me of an incident at the Cobb facility of GTRI (then still EES) late 70s very early 80s. Received a steel ring about 5 foot in diameter made by rolling 12" wide channel (flanges out) into a circle. (This was a temporary stand to hold a radar pedestal while it was not installed in its carrier vehicle.) Since the ring was not going to ship with the completed project, we were playing with it in the parking lot much like in the .gif. With the added risk of amputated fingers from the flanges:-O Several of us had all taken our turn then the senior technician called for his. However he first reached into his pants... Pulled out a loaded pistol and thrust it into *my* hands and said "Hold this!" Which I very nervously did. Had no idea my coworker packed and pretty sure it would have gotten us all fired or shot by security or worse even back then. -- William On Thursday 18 September 2014, Jim Kinney wrote: > http://www.instructables.com/id/Hamster-Wheel-Standing-Desk/?ALLSTEPS From agcarver+ale at acarver.net Fri Sep 19 01:56:21 2014 From: agcarver+ale at acarver.net (Alex Carver) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 22:56:21 -0700 Subject: [ale] [Mildly OT] Personal bliss or world conquest? In-Reply-To: <541B0480.4080702@benshome.net> References: <541A1B2E.1010306@fayettedigital.com> <541AB2A6.4000608@algoloma.com> <541AB59A.5060809@gmail.com> <541B0480.4080702@benshome.net> Message-ID: <541BC585.5060000@acarver.net> On 2014-09-18 09:12, Ben Coleman wrote: > On 9/18/2014 09:39, Charles Shapiro wrote: >> Yep. My retirement plans include a Doom implementation written exclusively >> in INTERCAL. > > That's certainly one way to convince people that you're senile. > There's always this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-29203776 From ale_nospam at fayettedigital.com Fri Sep 19 06:01:17 2014 From: ale_nospam at fayettedigital.com (Jim Lynch) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 06:01:17 -0400 Subject: [ale] [ANNC] - ALE-NW InstallFest 2014! In-Reply-To: <54089710.3080207@algoloma.com> References: <54089710.3080207@algoloma.com> Message-ID: <541BFEED.8070508@fayettedigital.com> On 09/04/2014 12:45 PM, JD wrote: > In just over 2 weeks, it is time for the 4th Annual ALE-NW InstallFest at SPSU! > We've scheduled it for Saturday, 9/20, this year. Assuming I can find the place, where is parking? I'll try to be there at opening. This is my third attempt to communicate with you. Jim. From jdp at algoloma.com Fri Sep 19 06:34:35 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 06:34:35 -0400 Subject: [ale] [ANNC] - ALE-NW InstallFest 2014! In-Reply-To: <541BFEED.8070508@fayettedigital.com> References: <54089710.3080207@algoloma.com> <541BFEED.8070508@fayettedigital.com> Message-ID: <541C06BB.5090405@algoloma.com> On 09/19/2014 06:01 AM, Jim Lynch wrote: > On 09/04/2014 12:45 PM, JD wrote: >> In just over 2 weeks, it is time for the 4th Annual ALE-NW InstallFest at SPSU! >> We've scheduled it for Saturday, 9/20, this year. > Assuming I can find the place, where is parking? I'll try to be there at > opening. This is my third attempt to communicate with you. Appreciate all the help! Sorry that the direction links have been less than in-your-face. http://ale.org/?p=552 has the announcement - with a link for directions to the event - parking, building, room. It is the same place (rm/bldg) as all the ALE-NW meetings. Also - http://ale.org/ - has a link on the left labeled: "Directions to ALE-NW Meetings" - for future information. I keep that link maintained and accurate. http://ale.org/?page_id=506 is the link with a google-maps route from I-75 to the parking garage. There are detailed walking directions after parking too. The google-maps route really will save time driving all around campus looking for a safe place to park. We have had a great turn out from students so far this year, so it looks like we'll be busy all day Saturday! Jim, Was there some issue emailing me? I haven't seen any emails from you, assuming it wasn't spammy or under a different name. ;) I don't always respond to emails from people I don't know, but I'd recognize you. Sometimes gmail and yahoo get blocked by the blocklist service we use - when they are actively spamming. Some ISP email gateways seem to always be on that list too. BTW, I have whitelisted your specific domain this morning. From hooterpincher at gmail.com Fri Sep 19 08:08:36 2014 From: hooterpincher at gmail.com (Charles Shapiro) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 08:08:36 -0400 Subject: [ale] [Mildly OT] Personal bliss or world conquest? In-Reply-To: <541BC585.5060000@acarver.net> References: <541A1B2E.1010306@fayettedigital.com> <541AB2A6.4000608@algoloma.com> <541AB59A.5060809@gmail.com> <541B0480.4080702@benshome.net> <541BC585.5060000@acarver.net> Message-ID: Buwahahaha! That is Awesome! -- CHS On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 1:56 AM, Alex Carver wrote: > On 2014-09-18 09:12, Ben Coleman wrote: > > On 9/18/2014 09:39, Charles Shapiro wrote: > >> Yep. My retirement plans include a Doom implementation written > exclusively > >> in INTERCAL. > > > > That's certainly one way to convince people that you're senile. > > > > There's always this: > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-29203776 > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ale_nospam at fayettedigital.com Fri Sep 19 08:17:34 2014 From: ale_nospam at fayettedigital.com (Jim Lynch) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 08:17:34 -0400 Subject: [ale] [ANNC] - ALE-NW InstallFest 2014! In-Reply-To: <541C06BB.5090405@algoloma.com> References: <54089710.3080207@algoloma.com> <541BFEED.8070508@fayettedigital.com> <541C06BB.5090405@algoloma.com> Message-ID: <541C1EDE.5030401@fayettedigital.com> On 09/19/2014 06:34 AM, JD wrote: > Jim, Was there some issue emailing me? I haven't seen any emails from you, > assuming it wasn't spammy or under a different name.;) I don't always respond > to emails from people I don't know, but I'd recognize you. Sometimes gmail and > yahoo get blocked by the blocklist service we use - when they are actively > spamming. Some ISP email gateways seem to always be on that list too. BTW, I > have whitelisted your specific domain this morning. FWIW, I've attached the first two mails in a zip file. Jim -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mail.zip Type: application/zip Size: 3714 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Fri Sep 19 09:14:07 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 09:14:07 -0400 Subject: [ale] [Mildly OT] Personal bliss or world conquest? In-Reply-To: References: <541A1B2E.1010306@fayettedigital.com> <541AB2A6.4000608@algoloma.com> <541AB59A.5060809@gmail.com> <541B0480.4080702@benshome.net> <541BC585.5060000@acarver.net> Message-ID: So... Print to fire and option keys for directions, fax dial shortcut keys for weapons? Yeah! Awesome hack! On Sep 19, 2014 8:20 AM, "Charles Shapiro" wrote: > Buwahahaha! That is Awesome! > > -- CHS > > > On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 1:56 AM, Alex Carver > wrote: > > > On 2014-09-18 09:12, Ben Coleman wrote: > > > On 9/18/2014 09:39, Charles Shapiro wrote: > > >> Yep. My retirement plans include a Doom implementation written > > exclusively > > >> in INTERCAL. > > > > > > That's certainly one way to convince people that you're senile. > > > > > > > There's always this: > > > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-29203776 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140919/d3850e52/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From agcarver+ale at acarver.net Fri Sep 19 09:23:15 2014 From: agcarver+ale at acarver.net (Alex Carver) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 06:23:15 -0700 Subject: [ale] [Mildly OT] Personal bliss or world conquest? In-Reply-To: References: <541A1B2E.1010306@fayettedigital.com> <541AB2A6.4000608@algoloma.com> <541AB59A.5060809@gmail.com> <541B0480.4080702@benshome.net> <541BC585.5060000@acarver.net> Message-ID: <541C2E43.3060300@acarver.net> Brings new meaning to 'lp0 on fire'. :) On 2014-09-19 06:14, Jim Kinney wrote: > So... > Print to fire and option keys for directions, fax dial shortcut keys for > weapons? Yeah! Awesome hack! > On Sep 19, 2014 8:20 AM, "Charles Shapiro" wrote: > >> Buwahahaha! That is Awesome! >> >> -- CHS >> >> >> On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 1:56 AM, Alex Carver >> wrote: >> >>> On 2014-09-18 09:12, Ben Coleman wrote: >>>> On 9/18/2014 09:39, Charles Shapiro wrote: >>>>> Yep. My retirement plans include a Doom implementation written >>> exclusively >>>>> in INTERCAL. >>>> >>>> That's certainly one way to convince people that you're senile. >>>> >>> >>> There's always this: >>> >>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-29203776 From jim.kinney at gmail.com Fri Sep 19 09:59:06 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 09:59:06 -0400 Subject: [ale] [Mildly OT] Personal bliss or world conquest? In-Reply-To: <541C2E43.3060300@acarver.net> References: <541A1B2E.1010306@fayettedigital.com> <541AB2A6.4000608@algoloma.com> <541AB59A.5060809@gmail.com> <541B0480.4080702@benshome.net> <541BC585.5060000@acarver.net> <541C2E43.3060300@acarver.net> Message-ID: "PC load letter" too :-) On Sep 19, 2014 9:26 AM, "Alex Carver" wrote: > Brings new meaning to 'lp0 on fire'. :) > > On 2014-09-19 06:14, Jim Kinney wrote: > > So... > > Print to fire and option keys for directions, fax dial shortcut keys for > > weapons? Yeah! Awesome hack! > > On Sep 19, 2014 8:20 AM, "Charles Shapiro" > wrote: > > > >> Buwahahaha! That is Awesome! > >> > >> -- CHS > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 1:56 AM, Alex Carver > >> wrote: > >> > >>> On 2014-09-18 09:12, Ben Coleman wrote: > >>>> On 9/18/2014 09:39, Charles Shapiro wrote: > >>>>> Yep. My retirement plans include a Doom implementation written > >>> exclusively > >>>>> in INTERCAL. > >>>> > >>>> That's certainly one way to convince people that you're senile. > >>>> > >>> > >>> There's always this: > >>> > >>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-29203776 > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From millia at panix.com Fri Sep 19 12:06:24 2014 From: millia at panix.com (David Millians) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 12:06:24 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT: Anybody got any recs on SSD testing software? Message-ID: <541C5480.9030902@panix.com> We have a number of desktops that are acting squirrelly, and in particular it seems to be the Intel SSDs. However, the old seatools et al don't work for them, and the Intel Toolbox doesn't spot anything. But with known good hardware, it's failing. So... anybody got any SSD testing software they use/like? Thanks, David From bugyatl at gmail.com Fri Sep 19 17:32:48 2014 From: bugyatl at gmail.com (Boris Borisov) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 17:32:48 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT: Anybody got any recs on SSD testing software? In-Reply-To: <541C5480.9030902@panix.com> References: <541C5480.9030902@panix.com> Message-ID: I would also like to get some info about good SSD tools. I don't have big SSD but would like to check the condition of my EeePC. On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 12:06 PM, David Millians wrote: > > We have a number of desktops that are acting squirrelly, and in particular > it seems to be the Intel SSDs. However, the old seatools et al don't work > for them, and the Intel Toolbox doesn't spot anything. But with known good > hardware, it's failing. > So... anybody got any SSD testing software they use/like? > > Thanks, > David > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dev.null.02 at gmail.com Fri Sep 19 18:01:52 2014 From: dev.null.02 at gmail.com (dev null zero two) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 18:01:52 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT: Anybody got any recs on SSD testing software? In-Reply-To: References: <541C5480.9030902@panix.com> Message-ID: CrystalDiskInfo is great but Windows only afaik Sent from my mobile. Please excuse the brevity, spelling, and punctuation. On Sep 19, 2014 5:35 PM, "Boris Borisov" wrote: > I would also like to get some info about good SSD tools. I don't have big > SSD but would like to check the condition of my EeePC. > > On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 12:06 PM, David Millians wrote: > > > > > We have a number of desktops that are acting squirrelly, and in > particular > > it seems to be the Intel SSDs. However, the old seatools et al don't work > > for them, and the Intel Toolbox doesn't spot anything. But with known > good > > hardware, it's failing. > > So... anybody got any SSD testing software they use/like? > > > > Thanks, > > David > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140919/6dfd62e9/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Sat Sep 20 09:23:09 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 09:23:09 -0400 Subject: [ale] Please Help ALE-NW Installfest Saturday 9/20 In-Reply-To: <540F0B66.3020506@algoloma.com> References: <540F0B66.3020506@algoloma.com> Message-ID: On the way with teenaged assistant in tow. Managed to wiggle schedule to open up early morning On Sep 9, 2014 10:18 AM, "JD" wrote: > H E L P !!! > > The installfest is just 11 days away! > > Still need volunteers to help during different times of the day. > > If you can help for 2-3 hrs any time Saturday 9/20, that would be a huge > help. > > Date: Saturday 9/20 > Starts: 10am > Ends: 5pm > Location: SPSU Atrium bldg - room J-266 > Directions: http://ale.org/?page_id=506 > Parking: Free parking > > > This is in the same room as all our meetings scheduled for this fall, > J-266. It > is a nice, big, classroom with tables. > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdp at algoloma.com Sat Sep 20 17:39:27 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 17:39:27 -0400 Subject: [ale] Please Help ALE-NW Installfest Saturday 9/20 In-Reply-To: References: <540F0B66.3020506@algoloma.com> Message-ID: <3e725c8b-461d-4a2a-94a8-17f7299f315b@email.android.com> Great. Saw u there! Thanks! On September 20, 2014 9:23:09 AM EDT, Jim Kinney wrote: >On the way with teenaged assistant in tow. Managed to wiggle schedule >to >open up early morning >On Sep 9, 2014 10:18 AM, "JD" wrote: > >> H E L P !!! >> >> The installfest is just 11 days away! >> >> Still need volunteers to help during different times of the day. >> >> If you can help for 2-3 hrs any time Saturday 9/20, that would be a >huge >> help. >> >> Date: Saturday 9/20 >> Starts: 10am >> Ends: 5pm >> Location: SPSU Atrium bldg - room J-266 >> Directions: http://ale.org/?page_id=506 >> Parking: Free parking >> >> >> This is in the same room as all our meetings scheduled for this fall, >> J-266. It >> is a nice, big, classroom with tables. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: > >_______________________________________________ >Ale mailing list >Ale at ale.org >http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From rajaw at c64.us Mon Sep 22 09:40:17 2014 From: rajaw at c64.us (Raj Wurttemberg) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 09:40:17 -0400 Subject: [ale] What creates /var/log/faillog ? Message-ID: <002d01cfd66a$c0769cb0$4163d610$@c64.us> My Google-Fu must be running low this this morning... What creates /var/log/faillog ? I have a RHCE 6.5 server and a security auditor said that we should have a /var/log/faillog file. I have the "pam_tally2" module loaded in the auth file "system-auth-ac" . The pam_tally2 command does appear to give proper results as well. Kind regards, Raj Wurttemberg rajaw at c64.us From jim.kinney at gmail.com Mon Sep 22 10:02:48 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 10:02:48 -0400 Subject: [ale] What creates /var/log/faillog ? In-Reply-To: <002d01cfd66a$c0769cb0$4163d610$@c64.us> References: <002d01cfd66a$c0769cb0$4163d610$@c64.us> Message-ID: Never heard of a "faillog". There is secure and audit logs. /var/log/secure handles login attempts. If auditd is running, /var/log/audit/* handles all manner of access internal to the system (I.e. not web server access). Perhaps those are what was inferred. On Sep 22, 2014 9:43 AM, "Raj Wurttemberg" wrote: > > My Google-Fu must be running low this this morning... > > What creates /var/log/faillog ? I have a RHCE 6.5 server and a security > auditor said that we should have a /var/log/faillog file. I have the > "pam_tally2" module loaded in the auth file "system-auth-ac" . The > pam_tally2 command does appear to give proper results as well. > > Kind regards, > Raj Wurttemberg > rajaw at c64.us > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From smcbrien at gmail.com Mon Sep 22 10:06:49 2014 From: smcbrien at gmail.com (Scott McBrien) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 10:06:49 -0400 Subject: [ale] What creates /var/log/faillog ? In-Reply-To: <002d01cfd66a$c0769cb0$4163d610$@c64.us> References: <002d01cfd66a$c0769cb0$4163d610$@c64.us> Message-ID: Raj, Trigger the pam_tally2 module, it should drop the faillog into place. Also, you'll want the pam_tally2 rules in your password-auth as well. I did a Red Hat Summit presentation on this and password complexity last year (updated for RHEL7) http://people.redhat.com/~smcbrien Also I did a Taste of Training webinar on it for RHEL6.4: http://www.redhat.com/en/services/training/taste-of-training -Scott > On Sep 22, 2014, at 9:40 AM, Raj Wurttemberg wrote: > > > My Google-Fu must be running low this this morning... > > What creates /var/log/faillog ? I have a RHCE 6.5 server and a security > auditor said that we should have a /var/log/faillog file. I have the > "pam_tally2" module loaded in the auth file "system-auth-ac" . The > pam_tally2 command does appear to give proper results as well. > > Kind regards, > Raj Wurttemberg > rajaw at c64.us > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo From leamhall at gmail.com Mon Sep 22 10:10:11 2014 From: leamhall at gmail.com (leam hall) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 10:10:11 -0400 Subject: [ale] What creates /var/log/faillog ? In-Reply-To: References: <002d01cfd66a$c0769cb0$4163d610$@c64.us> Message-ID: Interesting. My RHEL 6.x box doesn't even have /var/log/faillog. Of course, I'm running a very scaled down install. Maybe try "rpm -q --whatprovides /var/log/faillog" That should say what package creates it. On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 10:02 AM, Jim Kinney wrote: > Never heard of a "faillog". There is secure and audit logs. /var/log/secure > handles login attempts. If auditd is running, /var/log/audit/* handles all > manner of access internal to the system (I.e. not web server access). > Perhaps those are what was inferred. > On Sep 22, 2014 9:43 AM, "Raj Wurttemberg" wrote: > >> >> My Google-Fu must be running low this this morning... >> >> What creates /var/log/faillog ? I have a RHCE 6.5 server and a security >> auditor said that we should have a /var/log/faillog file. I have the >> "pam_tally2" module loaded in the auth file "system-auth-ac" . The >> pam_tally2 command does appear to give proper results as well. >> >> Kind regards, >> Raj Wurttemberg >> rajaw at c64.us >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -- Mind on a Mission From pbcartwright at gmail.com Mon Sep 22 10:13:49 2014 From: pbcartwright at gmail.com (Paul Cartwright) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 10:13:49 -0400 Subject: [ale] What creates /var/log/faillog ? In-Reply-To: References: <002d01cfd66a$c0769cb0$4163d610$@c64.us> Message-ID: <54202E9D.1020703@gmail.com> weird... I have a faillog, but it looks like a data file. when I try more, it shows blanks.. ls -l /var/log/faillog -rw------- 1 root root 32000 Sep 11 14:57 /var/log/faillog pauls-server:/home/pbc # tail /var/log/faillog pauls-server:/home/pbc # tail shows nothing either.. > Never heard of a "faillog". There is secure and audit logs. /var/log/secure > handles login attempts. If auditd is running, /var/log/audit/* handles all > manner of access internal to the system (I.e. not web server access). > Perhaps those are what was inferred. > On Sep 22, 2014 9:43 AM, "Raj Wurttemberg" wrote: > >> My Google-Fu must be running low this this morning... >> >> What creates /var/log/faillog ? I have a RHCE 6.5 server and a security >> auditor said that we should have a /var/log/faillog file. I have the >> "pam_tally2" module loaded in the auth file "system-auth-ac" . The >> pam_tally2 command does appear to give proper results as well. >> >> Kind regards, >> Raj Wurttemberg >> rajaw at c64.us >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 From leamhall at gmail.com Mon Sep 22 10:42:29 2014 From: leamhall at gmail.com (leam hall) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 10:42:29 -0400 Subject: [ale] What creates /var/log/faillog ? In-Reply-To: <54202E9D.1020703@gmail.com> References: <002d01cfd66a$c0769cb0$4163d610$@c64.us> <54202E9D.1020703@gmail.com> Message-ID: Paul, what does "file /var/log/faillog" say? How about "strings /var/log/faillog"? Of course, it could have been a file that's held open but already removed. On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 10:13 AM, Paul Cartwright wrote: > weird... I have a faillog, but it looks like a data file. when I try > more, it shows blanks.. > > ls -l /var/log/faillog > -rw------- 1 root root 32000 Sep 11 14:57 /var/log/faillog > pauls-server:/home/pbc # tail /var/log/faillog > pauls-server:/home/pbc # > > > tail shows nothing either.. > >> Never heard of a "faillog". There is secure and audit logs. /var/log/secure >> handles login attempts. If auditd is running, /var/log/audit/* handles all >> manner of access internal to the system (I.e. not web server access). >> Perhaps those are what was inferred. >> On Sep 22, 2014 9:43 AM, "Raj Wurttemberg" wrote: >> >>> My Google-Fu must be running low this this morning... >>> >>> What creates /var/log/faillog ? I have a RHCE 6.5 server and a security >>> auditor said that we should have a /var/log/faillog file. I have the >>> "pam_tally2" module loaded in the auth file "system-auth-ac" . The >>> pam_tally2 command does appear to give proper results as well. >>> >>> Kind regards, >>> Raj Wurttemberg >>> rajaw at c64.us >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ale mailing list >>> Ale at ale.org >>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >>> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> _______________________________________________ >> Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> >> > > > -- > Paul Cartwright > Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -- Mind on a Mission From taaj.shawn at gmail.com Mon Sep 22 10:50:33 2014 From: taaj.shawn at gmail.com (Shawn) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 10:50:33 -0400 Subject: [ale] What creates /var/log/faillog ? In-Reply-To: References: <002d01cfd66a$c0769cb0$4163d610$@c64.us> <54202E9D.1020703@gmail.com> Message-ID: its a binary, use faillock to read it in centos6. [root at something: log]$ cat /etc/*release* CentOS release 6.4 (Final) LSB_VERSION=base-4.0-amd64:base-4.0-noarch:core-4.0-amd64:core-4.0-noarch cat: /etc/lsb-release.d: Is a directory CentOS release 6.4 (Final) CentOS release 6.4 (Final) cpe:/o:centos:linux:6:GA [root at somethingawesome : log]$ man faillock |cat FAILLOCK(8) Linux-PAM Manual FAILLOCK(8) NAME faillock - Tool for displaying and modifying the authentication failure record files SYNOPSIS faillock [--dir /path/to/tally-directory] [--user username] [--reset] DESCRIPTION The pam_faillock.so module maintains a list of failed authentication attempts per user during a specified interval and locks the account in case there were more than deny consecutive failed authentications. It stores the failure records into per-user files in the tally directory. The faillock command is an application which can be used to examine and modify the contents of the the tally files. It can display the recent failed authentication attempts of the username or clear the tally files of all or individual usernames. OPTIONS --dir /path/to/tally-directory The directory where the user files with the failure records are kept. The default is /var/run/faillock. --user username The user whose failure records should be displayed or cleared. --reset Instead of displaying the user?s failure records, clear them. FILES /var/run/faillock/* the files logging the authentication failures for users SEE ALSO pam_faillock(8), pam(8) AUTHOR faillock was written by Tomas Mraz. Linux-PAM Manual 02/22/2013 FAILLOCK(8) [root at openvpnhamaster.devdc : log]$ man pam_faillock |cat PAM_FAILLOCK(8) Linux-PAM Manual PAM_FAILLOCK(8) man pam_faillock |cat for info on how to set it up. On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 10:42 AM, leam hall wrote: > Paul, what does "file /var/log/faillog" say? How about "strings > /var/log/faillog"? > > Of course, it could have been a file that's held open but already removed. > > > > On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 10:13 AM, Paul Cartwright > wrote: > > weird... I have a faillog, but it looks like a data file. when I try > > more, it shows blanks.. > > > > ls -l /var/log/faillog > > -rw------- 1 root root 32000 Sep 11 14:57 /var/log/faillog > > pauls-server:/home/pbc # tail /var/log/faillog > > pauls-server:/home/pbc # > > > > > > tail shows nothing either.. > > > >> Never heard of a "faillog". There is secure and audit logs. > /var/log/secure > >> handles login attempts. If auditd is running, /var/log/audit/* handles > all > >> manner of access internal to the system (I.e. not web server access). > >> Perhaps those are what was inferred. > >> On Sep 22, 2014 9:43 AM, "Raj Wurttemberg" wrote: > >> > >>> My Google-Fu must be running low this this morning... > >>> > >>> What creates /var/log/faillog ? I have a RHCE 6.5 server and a security > >>> auditor said that we should have a /var/log/faillog file. I have the > >>> "pam_tally2" module loaded in the auth file "system-auth-ac" . The > >>> pam_tally2 command does appear to give proper results as well. > >>> > >>> Kind regards, > >>> Raj Wurttemberg > >>> rajaw at c64.us > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Ale mailing list > >>> Ale at ale.org > >>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > >>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > >>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > >>> > >> -------------- next part -------------- > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >> URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140922/cb52c48d/attachment.html > > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Ale mailing list > >> Ale at ale.org > >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Paul Cartwright > > Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > -- > Mind on a Mission > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- *- Shawn Taaj* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pbcartwright at gmail.com Mon Sep 22 10:55:53 2014 From: pbcartwright at gmail.com (Paul Cartwright) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 10:55:53 -0400 Subject: [ale] What creates /var/log/faillog ? In-Reply-To: References: <002d01cfd66a$c0769cb0$4163d610$@c64.us> <54202E9D.1020703@gmail.com> Message-ID: <54203879.1040001@gmail.com> # file /var/log/faillog /var/log/faillog: data # strings /var/log/faillog pauls-server:/home/pbc # > Paul, what does "file /var/log/faillog" say? How about "strings > /var/log/faillog"? > > Of course, it could have been a file that's held open but already removed. > > > > On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 10:13 AM, Paul Cartwright > wrote: >> weird... I have a faillog, but it looks like a data file. when I try >> more, it shows blanks.. >> >> ls -l /var/log/faillog >> -rw------- 1 root root 32000 Sep 11 14:57 /var/log/faillog >> pauls-server:/home/pbc # tail /var/log/faillog >> pauls-server:/home/pbc # >> >> >> tail shows nothing either.. >> >>> Never heard of a "faillog". There is secure and audit logs. /var/log/secure >>> handles login attempts. If auditd is running, /var/log/audit/* handles all >>> manner of access internal to the system (I.e. not web server access). >>> Perhaps those are what was inferred. >>> On Sep 22, 2014 9:43 AM, "Raj Wurttemberg" wrote: >>> >>>> My Google-Fu must be running low this this morning... >>>> >>>> What creates /var/log/faillog ? I have a RHCE 6.5 server and a security >>>> auditor said that we should have a /var/log/faillog file. I have the >>>> "pam_tally2" module loaded in the auth file "system-auth-ac" . The >>>> pam_tally2 command does appear to give proper results as well. >>>> >>>> Kind regards, >>>> Raj Wurttemberg >>>> rajaw at c64.us >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Ale mailing list >>>> Ale at ale.org >>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >>>> >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ale mailing list >>> Ale at ale.org >>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Paul Cartwright >> Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 From taaj.shawn at gmail.com Mon Sep 22 11:13:00 2014 From: taaj.shawn at gmail.com (Shawn) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 11:13:00 -0400 Subject: [ale] What creates /var/log/faillog ? In-Reply-To: <54203879.1040001@gmail.com> References: <002d01cfd66a$c0769cb0$4163d610$@c64.us> <54202E9D.1020703@gmail.com> <54203879.1040001@gmail.com> Message-ID: http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/faillog-in-linux-command/ On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 10:55 AM, Paul Cartwright wrote: > # file /var/log/faillog > /var/log/faillog: data > > # strings /var/log/faillog > pauls-server:/home/pbc # > > > > > Paul, what does "file /var/log/faillog" say? How about "strings > > /var/log/faillog"? > > > > Of course, it could have been a file that's held open but already > removed. > > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 10:13 AM, Paul Cartwright > > wrote: > >> weird... I have a faillog, but it looks like a data file. when I try > >> more, it shows blanks.. > >> > >> ls -l /var/log/faillog > >> -rw------- 1 root root 32000 Sep 11 14:57 /var/log/faillog > >> pauls-server:/home/pbc # tail /var/log/faillog > >> pauls-server:/home/pbc # > >> > >> > >> tail shows nothing either.. > >> > >>> Never heard of a "faillog". There is secure and audit logs. > /var/log/secure > >>> handles login attempts. If auditd is running, /var/log/audit/* handles > all > >>> manner of access internal to the system (I.e. not web server access). > >>> Perhaps those are what was inferred. > >>> On Sep 22, 2014 9:43 AM, "Raj Wurttemberg" wrote: > >>> > >>>> My Google-Fu must be running low this this morning... > >>>> > >>>> What creates /var/log/faillog ? I have a RHCE 6.5 server and a > security > >>>> auditor said that we should have a /var/log/faillog file. I have the > >>>> "pam_tally2" module loaded in the auth file "system-auth-ac" . The > >>>> pam_tally2 command does appear to give proper results as well. > >>>> > >>>> Kind regards, > >>>> Raj Wurttemberg > >>>> rajaw at c64.us > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Ale mailing list > >>>> Ale at ale.org > >>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > >>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > >>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > >>>> > >>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>> URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140922/cb52c48d/attachment.html > > > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Ale mailing list > >>> Ale at ale.org > >>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > >>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > >>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > >>> > >>> > >> > >> -- > >> Paul Cartwright > >> Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Ale mailing list > >> Ale at ale.org > >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > > > > -- > Paul Cartwright > Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- *- Shawn Taaj* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pbcartwright at gmail.com Mon Sep 22 11:22:36 2014 From: pbcartwright at gmail.com (Paul Cartwright) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 11:22:36 -0400 Subject: [ale] What creates /var/log/faillog ? In-Reply-To: References: <002d01cfd66a$c0769cb0$4163d610$@c64.us> <54202E9D.1020703@gmail.com> <54203879.1040001@gmail.com> Message-ID: <54203EBC.2020600@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From taaj.shawn at gmail.com Mon Sep 22 11:44:50 2014 From: taaj.shawn at gmail.com (Shawn) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 11:44:50 -0400 Subject: [ale] What creates /var/log/faillog ? In-Reply-To: <54203EBC.2020600@gmail.com> References: <002d01cfd66a$c0769cb0$4163d610$@c64.us> <54202E9D.1020703@gmail.com> <54203879.1040001@gmail.com> <54203EBC.2020600@gmail.com> Message-ID: https://www.suse.com/documentation/sles11/book_sle_tuning/data/sec_tuning_logfiles_logs.html On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 11:22 AM, Paul Cartwright wrote: > On 09/22/2014 11:13 AM, Shawn wrote: > > http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/faillog-in-linux-command/ > > On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 10:55 AM, Paul Cartwright > wrote: > >> # file /var/log/faillog >> /var/log/faillog: data >> >> # strings /var/log/faillog >> pauls-server:/home/pbc # >> >> >> nice, except it doesn't work.. not on my system, even though the > file is there ( /var/log/faillog).. > cnf faillog > faillog: command not found > pauls-server:/home/pbc # faillog -a > If 'faillog' is not a typo you can use command-not-found to lookup the > package that contains it, like this: > cnf faillog > > Yast (openSUSE) shows nothing for faillog, nothing provides it.. yet, > /var/log/faillog is there... > > -- > Paul Cartwright > Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 > > -- *- Shawn Taaj* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From terrorpup at gmail.com Mon Sep 22 11:55:43 2014 From: terrorpup at gmail.com (Chuck Payne) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 11:55:43 -0400 Subject: [ale] What creates /var/log/faillog ? In-Reply-To: <54203EBC.2020600@gmail.com> References: <002d01cfd66a$c0769cb0$4163d610$@c64.us> <54202E9D.1020703@gmail.com> <54203879.1040001@gmail.com> <54203EBC.2020600@gmail.com> Message-ID: Raj, Do you have lsof installed, you got a lot of great answer for the guys, but if you aren't sure what writing a file, you have your good friend lsof to the recuse. This is good to know incase you have find a process or a service you do not know. Since you where wonder what wrote file log, the first thing to do see what process might be writing the file. lsof | grep /var/log/faillog I am going to use the example with my firewall called tengu lsof grep | grep tengu mysqld 2966 23380 mysql 71u REG 8,6 151472 2364586 /var/lib/mysql/tengu/ips.MYD mysqld 2966 23380 mysql 72u REG 8,6 1024 2364588 /var/lib/mysql/tengu/whitelist.MYI mysqld 2966 23380 mysql 73u REG 8,6 0 2364589 /var/lib/mysql/tengu/whitelist.MYD sh 11792 root 10r REG 8,6 20964 7480015 /usr/local/bin/tengu sh 11802 root 10r REG 8,6 20964 7480015 /usr/local/bin/tengu sh 21553 root 10r REG 8,6 20964 7480015 /usr/local/bin/tengu sh 21564 root 10r REG 8,6 20964 7480015 /usr/local/bin/tengu A break down of lsof 1st column is the process running 2nd column is the pid 3rd column is the user 4th is FD 5th is Type 6th is Device where the server is running 7th is size/off 8th Node 9th name of the files it is suing, So I found an active pid, and I use lsof to show me what files and process are in lsof -p 12197 COMMAND PID USER FD TYPE DEVICE SIZE/OFF NODE NAME sh 12197 root cwd DIR 8,6 4096 7471772 /usr/local/bin sh 12197 root rtd DIR 8,6 4096 2 / sh 12197 root txt REG 8,6 106920 9699332 /bin/dash sh 12197 root mem REG 8,6 1599536 6685394 /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc-2.13.so sh 12197 root mem REG 8,6 136936 6685389 /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/ld-2.13.so sh 12197 root 0u CHR 4,2 0t0 1043 /dev/tty2 sh 12197 root 1u CHR 4,2 0t0 1043 /dev/tty2 sh 12197 root 2u CHR 4,2 0t0 1043 /dev/tty2 sh 12197 root 10r REG 8,6 20964 7480015 /usr/local/bin/tengu Again, lsof is great to see what might be writing and where the program that is wring the log is. I know it a bit munch but if Google letting you down, and you want to make sure it not some script kiddies script running on a server, lsof is your sherlock to find what doing what. On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 11:22 AM, Paul Cartwright wrote: > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140922/c08d072e/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- Terror PUP a.k.a Chuck "PUP" Payne (678) 636-9678 ----------------------------------------- Discover it! Enjoy it! Share it! openSUSE Linux. ----------------------------------------- openSUSE -- Terrorpup openSUSE Ambassador/openSUSE Member skype,twiiter,identica,friendfeed -- terrorpup freenode(irc) --terrorpup/lupinstein Register Linux Userid: 155363 Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rajaw at c64.us Mon Sep 22 13:38:20 2014 From: rajaw at c64.us (Raj Wurttemberg) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 13:38:20 -0400 Subject: [ale] What creates /var/log/faillog ? In-Reply-To: References: <002d01cfd66a$c0769cb0$4163d610$@c64.us> <54202E9D.1020703@gmail.com> <54203879.1040001@gmail.com> <54203EBC.2020600@gmail.com> Message-ID: <006101cfd68c$02d8c580$088a5080$@c64.us> Hey Chuck, Actually, I don't have a /var/log/faillog file and the security auditor says that we should have the file. I was thinking that maybe an older pal_tally module created that file. Kind regards, Raj -----Original Message----- From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Payne Sent: Monday, September 22, 2014 11:56 AM To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [ale] What creates /var/log/faillog ? Raj, Do you have lsof installed, you got a lot of great answer for the guys, but if you aren't sure what writing a file, you have your good friend lsof to the recuse. This is good to know incase you have find a process or a service you do not know. Since you where wonder what wrote file log, the first thing to do see what process might be writing the file. lsof | grep /var/log/faillog I am going to use the example with my firewall called tengu lsof grep | grep tengu mysqld 2966 23380 mysql 71u REG 8,6 151472 2364586 /var/lib/mysql/tengu/ips.MYD mysqld 2966 23380 mysql 72u REG 8,6 1024 2364588 /var/lib/mysql/tengu/whitelist.MYI mysqld 2966 23380 mysql 73u REG 8,6 0 2364589 /var/lib/mysql/tengu/whitelist.MYD sh 11792 root 10r REG 8,6 20964 7480015 /usr/local/bin/tengu sh 11802 root 10r REG 8,6 20964 7480015 /usr/local/bin/tengu sh 21553 root 10r REG 8,6 20964 7480015 /usr/local/bin/tengu sh 21564 root 10r REG 8,6 20964 7480015 /usr/local/bin/tengu A break down of lsof 1st column is the process running 2nd column is the pid 3rd column is the user 4th is FD 5th is Type 6th is Device where the server is running 7th is size/off 8th Node 9th name of the files it is suing, So I found an active pid, and I use lsof to show me what files and process are in lsof -p 12197 COMMAND PID USER FD TYPE DEVICE SIZE/OFF NODE NAME sh 12197 root cwd DIR 8,6 4096 7471772 /usr/local/bin sh 12197 root rtd DIR 8,6 4096 2 / sh 12197 root txt REG 8,6 106920 9699332 /bin/dash sh 12197 root mem REG 8,6 1599536 6685394 /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc-2.13.so sh 12197 root mem REG 8,6 136936 6685389 /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/ld-2.13.so sh 12197 root 0u CHR 4,2 0t0 1043 /dev/tty2 sh 12197 root 1u CHR 4,2 0t0 1043 /dev/tty2 sh 12197 root 2u CHR 4,2 0t0 1043 /dev/tty2 sh 12197 root 10r REG 8,6 20964 7480015 /usr/local/bin/tengu Again, lsof is great to see what might be writing and where the program that is wring the log is. I know it a bit munch but if Google letting you down, and you want to make sure it not some script kiddies script running on a server, lsof is your sherlock to find what doing what. On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 11:22 AM, Paul Cartwright wrote: > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140922/c08d072e/attach > ment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- Terror PUP a.k.a Chuck "PUP" Payne (678) 636-9678 ----------------------------------------- Discover it! Enjoy it! Share it! openSUSE Linux. ----------------------------------------- openSUSE -- Terrorpup openSUSE Ambassador/openSUSE Member skype,twiiter,identica,friendfeed -- terrorpup freenode(irc) --terrorpup/lupinstein Register Linux Userid: 155363 Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo From pbcartwright at gmail.com Mon Sep 22 13:57:39 2014 From: pbcartwright at gmail.com (Paul Cartwright) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 13:57:39 -0400 Subject: [ale] Ddos attack Message-ID: <54206313.1080805@gmail.com> I was trying to send out email this morning, and my smtp server hung, times out. So I used my secondary gmail account to send messages. I sent an email to Asmallorange asking for help, and got this reply: Unfortunately the primary IP of andrea.asmallorange.com (108.165.20.46) has been null routed to mitigate a DDoS attack, this null route will be removed very soon, in the meantime you should be able to use your domain name 'pcartwright.com' as the incoming/outgoing mail server, let us know if you're having any trouble with that. would be nice if they would have told me this.. I can GET email ( IMAP) from that, but I just can't send. -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 From agcarver+ale at acarver.net Mon Sep 22 17:35:24 2014 From: agcarver+ale at acarver.net (Alex Carver) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 14:35:24 -0700 Subject: [ale] Ddos attack In-Reply-To: <54206313.1080805@gmail.com> References: <54206313.1080805@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5420961C.8090709@acarver.net> On 2014-09-22 10:57, Paul Cartwright wrote: > I was trying to send out email this morning, and my smtp server hung, > times out. So I used my secondary gmail account to send messages. I sent > an email to Asmallorange asking for help, and got this reply: > > Unfortunately the primary IP of andrea.asmallorange.com (108.165.20.46) has been null routed to mitigate a DDoS attack, this null route will be removed very soon, in the meantime you should be able to use your domain name 'pcartwright.com' as the incoming/outgoing mail server, let us know if you're having any trouble with that. > > > would be nice if they would have told me this.. I can GET email ( IMAP) from that, but I just can't send. > My personal server was hit late last week. A bunch of machines in various places (including GT which was a bit of a surprise) blasted my server with thousands of connection attempts and subsequent disconnects. The thing fell over after a few hours with a kernel panic. From jdp at algoloma.com Tue Sep 23 06:52:12 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 06:52:12 -0400 Subject: [ale] ALE-NW Installfest - flash drive found Message-ID: <542150DC.7040409@algoloma.com> A nice flash drive was turned in at the end of the installfest. Please describe the contents to have it returned. Off list response would be best. From jdp at algoloma.com Tue Sep 23 07:37:35 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 07:37:35 -0400 Subject: [ale] MythTV and Schedules Direct Message-ID: <54215B7F.3030809@algoloma.com> http://forums.schedulesdirect.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2577 Schedule data ends Nov 1, 2014. Scrapers are being created according to the announcement. From pete.hardie at gmail.com Tue Sep 23 07:58:01 2014 From: pete.hardie at gmail.com (Pete Hardie) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 07:58:01 -0400 Subject: [ale] ALE-NW Installfest - flash drive found In-Reply-To: <542150DC.7040409@algoloma.com> References: <542150DC.7040409@algoloma.com> Message-ID: You plugged in a "lost" flash drive to one of your systems? On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 6:52 AM, JD wrote: > > A nice flash drive was turned in at the end of the installfest. > Please describe the contents to have it returned. > > Off list response would be best. > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- Pete Hardie -------- Better Living Through Bitmaps -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Tue Sep 23 08:03:29 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 08:03:29 -0400 Subject: [ale] ALE-NW Installfest - flash drive found In-Reply-To: References: <542150DC.7040409@algoloma.com> Message-ID: there was an installation of kali linux going on. A wayward thumb drive could have been interesting. And JD had a laptop of the "wipe and replace" variety. On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 7:58 AM, Pete Hardie wrote: > You plugged in a "lost" flash drive to one of your systems? > > > > On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 6:52 AM, JD wrote: > > > > > A nice flash drive was turned in at the end of the installfest. > > Please describe the contents to have it returned. > > > > Off list response would be best. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > > > -- > Pete Hardie > -------- > Better Living Through Bitmaps > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140923/dbd5bcdd/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From philip at turmel.org Tue Sep 23 08:39:52 2014 From: philip at turmel.org (Phil Turmel) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 08:39:52 -0400 Subject: [ale] MythTV and Schedules Direct In-Reply-To: <54215B7F.3030809@algoloma.com> References: <54215B7F.3030809@algoloma.com> Message-ID: <54216A18.3090004@turmel.org> On 09/23/2014 07:37 AM, JD wrote: > http://forums.schedulesdirect.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2577 > > Schedule data ends Nov 1, 2014. > Scrapers are being created according to the announcement. Thanks for the heads up. I have some work to do. Phil From warlord at MIT.EDU Tue Sep 23 11:34:17 2014 From: warlord at MIT.EDU (Derek Atkins) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 11:34:17 -0400 Subject: [ale] MythTV and Schedules Direct In-Reply-To: <54216A18.3090004@turmel.org> (Phil Turmel's message of "Tue, 23 Sep 2014 08:39:52 -0400") References: <54215B7F.3030809@algoloma.com> <54216A18.3090004@turmel.org> Message-ID: Phil Turmel writes: > On 09/23/2014 07:37 AM, JD wrote: >> http://forums.schedulesdirect.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2577 >> >> Schedule data ends Nov 1, 2014. >> Scrapers are being created according to the announcement. > > Thanks for the heads up. I have some work to do. Alas, so do I.. I'm actually still running version 0.22.. But recently I've been having lots of issues when I record multiple programs off the HD-Homerun simultaneously. I'm not sure if it's a network issue, I/O issue, or something else. Sometimes I get tired of debugging these kinds of things and want them to "just work" :( > Phil -derek -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/ PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH warlord at MIT.EDU PGP key available From ted-lists at xy0.org Tue Sep 23 11:56:31 2014 From: ted-lists at xy0.org (Ted W) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 11:56:31 -0400 Subject: [ale] PSA: Pay attention to your sector alignment Message-ID: <5421982F.9020304@xy0.org> When resizing a partition using fdisk, it's important to take note of the starting position of the original partition before creating the new partition. Apparently fdisk, by default, uses track-alignment starting at position 63 where as newer partitioning tools (e.g. parted) aligns to the 1MiB boundry, starting at 2048. If you wish to still use fdisk to resize a partition starting at 2048 you can use `fdisk -u -c /dev/sdX` to ignore MsDOS compatibility and default to 2048 as the starting position. I just spent 5 hours last night fearing I had somehow munged my /srv partition while resizing the disk because the new partition table had the wrong starting point thanks to fdisk. Once I shifted the start point to 2048, all was fine. One more lesson well learned. -- Ted W. From fritzp at gmail.com Tue Sep 23 12:36:55 2014 From: fritzp at gmail.com (Fritz Pietrzak) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 12:36:55 -0400 Subject: [ale] multipath.con for Netapp with RHEL5.7 Message-ID: Can anyone spot any issues with this multipath.conf entry for Netapp storage (RHEL5.7) with no ALUA: device { vendor "NETAPP" product "LUN" path_grouping_policy group_by_prio features "1 queue_if_no_path" prio ontap path_checker directio path_selector "round-robin 0" failback immediate hardware_handler "0" rr_weight uniform rr_min_io 128 getuid_callout "/sbin/scsi_id -g -u -s /block/%n" } I am getting some intermittent path failures that aren't showing up on the switch so it is apparently a multipath issue. Fritz -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JLightner at dsservices.com Tue Sep 23 13:05:16 2014 From: JLightner at dsservices.com (Lightner, Jeff) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 17:05:16 +0000 Subject: [ale] multipath.con for Netapp with RHEL5.7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EC58EA@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> I don't see "prio ontap" in the multipath doc for the version I'm running on RHEL5.9. It appears "failback" should be 0 rather than immediate based on that same document (i.e. 0 means immediate, values greater than 0 have deferred failback. You can see the documentation for your version (which ought to be similar if not the same as the one I have) in this file: /usr/share/doc/device-mapper-multipath*/multipath.conf.annotated -----Original Message----- From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Fritz Pietrzak Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 12:38 PM To: ale at ale.org Subject: [ale] multipath.con for Netapp with RHEL5.7 Can anyone spot any issues with this multipath.conf entry for Netapp storage (RHEL5.7) with no ALUA: device { vendor "NETAPP" product "LUN" path_grouping_policy group_by_prio features "1 queue_if_no_path" prio ontap path_checker directio path_selector "round-robin 0" failback immediate hardware_handler "0" rr_weight uniform rr_min_io 128 getuid_callout "/sbin/scsi_id -g -u -s /block/%n" } I am getting some intermittent path failures that aren't showing up on the switch so it is apparently a multipath issue. Fritz -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo Athena(r), Created for the Cause(tm) Making a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Cancer __________________________________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged or confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you From james.sumners at gmail.com Tue Sep 23 14:09:18 2014 From: james.sumners at gmail.com (James Sumners) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 14:09:18 -0400 Subject: [ale] PSA: Pay attention to your sector alignment In-Reply-To: <5421982F.9020304@xy0.org> References: <5421982F.9020304@xy0.org> Message-ID: Actually, could start the partition on sector 64 if you really want[1]. The important thing is that it be a multiple of 4. You might also consider switching to gdisk[2] instead of fdisk (provided your motherboard is capable). [1] -- http://jrfom.com/2010/05/03/4kb-sectors/ [2] -- http://www.rodsbooks.com/gdisk/ On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 11:56 AM, Ted W wrote: > When resizing a partition using fdisk, it's important to take note of the > starting position of the original partition before creating the new > partition. Apparently fdisk, by default, uses track-alignment starting at > position 63 where as newer partitioning tools (e.g. parted) aligns to the > 1MiB boundry, starting at 2048. If you wish to still use fdisk to resize a > partition starting at 2048 you can use `fdisk -u -c /dev/sdX` to ignore > MsDOS compatibility and default to 2048 as the starting position. > > I just spent 5 hours last night fearing I had somehow munged my /srv > partition while resizing the disk because the new partition table had the > wrong starting point thanks to fdisk. Once I shifted the start point to > 2048, all was fine. One more lesson well learned. > > -- > Ted W. > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- James Sumners http://james.roomfullofmirrors.com/ "All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted." Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto) CH:D 59 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdp at algoloma.com Tue Sep 23 15:50:40 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 15:50:40 -0400 Subject: [ale] ALE-NW Installfest - flash drive found In-Reply-To: References: <542150DC.7040409@algoloma.com> Message-ID: <5421CF10.9030803@algoloma.com> No - I haven't plugged it in. I want a name to go with it first. ;) I have p[enty of flushable systems here ... or I'll just bring it to the next meeting and ask someone else to take a look. ;) BTW - a built-in guest account on Ubuntu are nice for this stuff. They are randomly created at login, extremely limited what they can do and wiped at logout. Handy. The more i think about this - it is probably easiest to connect it to a WDTV live and browse to the storage using CIFS. Now, where did I leave that flash drive? On 09/23/2014 07:58 AM, Pete Hardie wrote: > You plugged in a "lost" flash drive to one of your systems? > > > > On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 6:52 AM, JD wrote: > >> >> A nice flash drive was turned in at the end of the installfest. >> Please describe the contents to have it returned. >> >> Off list response would be best. >> From jdp at algoloma.com Tue Sep 23 16:01:25 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 16:01:25 -0400 Subject: [ale] MythTV and Schedules Direct In-Reply-To: References: <54215B7F.3030809@algoloma.com> <54216A18.3090004@turmel.org> Message-ID: <5421D195.9030507@algoloma.com> On 09/23/2014 11:34 AM, Derek Atkins wrote: > Sometimes I get tired of debugging these kinds of things and want them > to "just work" :( Well, is it worth $800-$900? That's a TiVo and lifetime schedule subscription. I have one, but it doesn't work with digital or hidef. Don't forget the hassles using TiVo - not upgradeable, limited storage, hassles getting anything off it, doesn't work with **any** online videos-just those they like, etc. From jdp at algoloma.com Tue Sep 23 16:06:42 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 16:06:42 -0400 Subject: [ale] PSA: Pay attention to your sector alignment In-Reply-To: <5421982F.9020304@xy0.org> References: <5421982F.9020304@xy0.org> Message-ID: <5421D2D2.6040706@algoloma.com> I stopped using fdisk a few years ago - use parted instead. It handles the alignment correctly by default and handles GPT disks. I understand that fdisk is/has been updated and by 2018, it may be safe to use it by default again ... active distros should be all there by that point. ;) gdisk has some issues - or did. Something about force migrating MBR to GPT? I don't recall - just that fixparts http://www.rodsbooks.com/fixparts/ is the tool to clean it up. Or is that the tool that causes it? I can't remember. On 09/23/2014 11:56 AM, Ted W wrote: > When resizing a partition using fdisk, it's important to take note of the > starting position of the original partition before creating the new partition. > Apparently fdisk, by default, uses track-alignment starting at position 63 where > as newer partitioning tools (e.g. parted) aligns to the 1MiB boundry, starting > at 2048. If you wish to still use fdisk to resize a partition starting at 2048 > you can use `fdisk -u -c /dev/sdX` to ignore MsDOS compatibility and default to > 2048 as the starting position. > > I just spent 5 hours last night fearing I had somehow munged my /srv partition > while resizing the disk because the new partition table had the wrong starting > point thanks to fdisk. Once I shifted the start point to 2048, all was fine. One > more lesson well learned. > From jdp at algoloma.com Tue Sep 23 17:48:54 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 17:48:54 -0400 Subject: [ale] ALE-NW InstallFest Report Message-ID: <5421EAC6.7060102@algoloma.com> Thanks to all the volunteers who showed up on a beautiful Saturday to help out. There were 15-20 volunteers throughout the day. I hope it was a party for you! Most of the time, folks seemed to be having a good time. We tried to install 9 systems and failed on 1 due to keyboard issues according to the report forms. ALE-NW InstallFest Summary ====================== 3 - Ubuntu/Kubuntu/other variant 2 - CentOS 1 - Fedora 1 - OpenSUSE 3 - Unclear based on the report data ====================== CPUs 4 - Core i5/i7 1 - Core2 Duo 4 - unknown CPUs ====================== Install Type 6 - Virtualized (virtualbox or VMware Workstation) 2 - full install (wipe) 1 - failed full install attempt ====================== RAM 2 - 16G 1 - 8G 1 - 6G 2 - 4G 1 - 1G 2 - unknown ====================== Doing It Better Next Year It appeared that everyone had a great time - well, except the failed installation where we couldn't get into the BIOS to enable legacy USB mode for the keyboard. We can definitely improve with better/more communication. I was humbled to see so many people come out to help. Anyone want a donut? I'd love to hear from each volunteer with their ideas to do it better. Please post here to get the ideas flowing ... but if you prefer, send an email offline. Of course, to do things better, we need volunteers to carry out these forthcoming brilliant ideas. I'd like to end up with stuff that we can share around the world to make all Installfests more organized - not just Linux, but for other projects like Wordpress, Ruby-on-Rails, Perl Catalyst/Dancer, Drupal, Alfresco, Zimbra, and especially MythTV - anything that is non-trivial to get working. Ideas? From jim.kinney at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 08:40:42 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 08:40:42 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd cheatsheet Message-ID: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SysVinit_to_Systemd_Cheatsheet useful stuff for those who need a quick answer -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdp at algoloma.com Wed Sep 24 08:45:48 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 08:45:48 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd cheatsheet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5422BCFC.80004@algoloma.com> On 09/24/2014 08:40 AM, Jim Kinney wrote: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SysVinit_to_Systemd_Cheatsheet > > useful stuff for those who need a quick answer > Looks like they've made everything longer. Nice! From leamhall at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 09:01:14 2014 From: leamhall at gmail.com (leam hall) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 09:01:14 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd cheatsheet In-Reply-To: <5422BCFC.80004@algoloma.com> References: <5422BCFC.80004@algoloma.com> Message-ID: Okay, CoreOS looks cool. And about the only reason to use systemd. -- Mind on a Mission From jim.kinney at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 09:08:02 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 09:08:02 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd cheatsheet In-Reply-To: <5422BCFC.80004@algoloma.com> References: <5422BCFC.80004@algoloma.com> Message-ID: On Sep 24, 2014 8:48 AM, "JD" wrote: > > On 09/24/2014 08:40 AM, Jim Kinney wrote: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SysVinit_to_Systemd_Cheatsheet > > > > useful stuff for those who need a quick answer > > > > > > Looks like they've made everything longer. Nice! Yeah. I noticed that too. :-( > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdp at algoloma.com Wed Sep 24 09:10:35 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 09:10:35 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd cheatsheet In-Reply-To: References: <5422BCFC.80004@algoloma.com> Message-ID: <5422C2CB.7000300@algoloma.com> On 09/24/2014 09:08 AM, Jim Kinney wrote: > On Sep 24, 2014 8:48 AM, "JD" wrote: >> >> On 09/24/2014 08:40 AM, Jim Kinney wrote: >>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SysVinit_to_Systemd_Cheatsheet >>> >>> useful stuff for those who need a quick answer >>> >> >> >> >> Looks like they've made everything longer. Nice! > > Yeah. I noticed that too. :-( Reminds me of powershell - same stuff - just more typing. From pbcartwright at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 09:34:22 2014 From: pbcartwright at gmail.com (Paul Cartwright) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 09:34:22 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd cheatsheet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5422C85E.6050009@gmail.com> On 09/24/2014 08:40 AM, Jim Kinney wrote: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SysVinit_to_Systemd_Cheatsheet > > useful stuff for those who need a quick answer > man frobozz gets nothing (ducking & running..) so we go from 3 words to 4 words & move start/stop in front of the app.. -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 From warlord at MIT.EDU Wed Sep 24 10:08:59 2014 From: warlord at MIT.EDU (Derek Atkins) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 10:08:59 -0400 Subject: [ale] MythTV and Schedules Direct In-Reply-To: <5421D195.9030507@algoloma.com> (JD's message of "Tue, 23 Sep 2014 16:01:25 -0400") References: <54215B7F.3030809@algoloma.com> <54216A18.3090004@turmel.org> <5421D195.9030507@algoloma.com> Message-ID: JD writes: > On 09/23/2014 11:34 AM, Derek Atkins wrote: >> Sometimes I get tired of debugging these kinds of things and want them >> to "just work" :( > > > Well, is it worth $800-$900? That's a TiVo and lifetime schedule > subscription. I have one, but it doesn't work with digital or hidef. > Don't forget the hassles using TiVo - not upgradeable, limited > storage, hassles getting anything off it, doesn't work with **any** > online videos-just those they like, etc. Oh, I know. I've been a MythTV user since.... 0.12? A long time. I think my issues right now are hardware, not software. Frequent reboots seem to help, which is yet another reason I think this. It's weird, because I'm using only HDHR inputs off an OTA antenna so there's nothing that the backend should *HAVE* to do computationally, but I'm seeing the CPU core spike up to like 100% when I start seeing my data loss issues. I plan to deploy a new slave backend today (if I can get it set up in time), hoping that will help. -derek -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/ PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH warlord at MIT.EDU PGP key available From jim.kinney at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 10:49:24 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 10:49:24 -0400 Subject: [ale] systemd cheatsheet In-Reply-To: <5422C85E.6050009@gmail.com> References: <5422C85E.6050009@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sep 24, 2014 9:37 AM, "Paul Cartwright" wrote: > > On 09/24/2014 08:40 AM, Jim Kinney wrote: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SysVinit_to_Systemd_Cheatsheet > > > > useful stuff for those who need a quick answer > > > man frobozz gets nothing > (ducking & running..) Ha! > > so we go from 3 words to 4 words & move start/stop in front of the app.. Wait until you run a status. It actually pull the last log file data for the process and tell if the process is actually running or just has a stale pid. The .service on the end is optional so far. The text logic of systemctl action name makes a zillion manual start/stop cycles a pain. Some bits that are missing so far is the mandatory ordering on a manual stop call. Example: NFS mount will auto wait for networking to start. But a systemctl stop network will not call a umount on an NFS fstab entry. So the deps are currently one way only. > > -- > Paul Cartwright > Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 14:41:15 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 14:41:15 -0400 Subject: [ale] bash critical vulnerability - update NOW! Message-ID: http://seclists.org/oss-sec/2014/q3/650 nasty and remote accessible. -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.sumners at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 14:50:58 2014 From: james.sumners at gmail.com (James Sumners) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 14:50:58 -0400 Subject: [ale] bash critical vulnerability - update NOW! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The moral of this story: don't write CGI scripts in Bash. On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 2:41 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > http://seclists.org/oss-sec/2014/q3/650 > > nasty and remote accessible. > > -- > -- > James P. Kinney III > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. > It won't fatten the dog. > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > * > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140924/873870b5/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- James Sumners http://james.roomfullofmirrors.com/ "All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted." Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto) CH:D 59 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdp at algoloma.com Wed Sep 24 14:58:47 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 14:58:47 -0400 Subject: [ale] bash critical vulnerability - update NOW! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <54231467.8030202@algoloma.com> On 09/24/2014 02:50 PM, James Sumners wrote: > The moral of this story: don't write CGI scripts in Bash. +100 Now, I need to check all my quick-n-dirty scripts. ;( I usually do perl with taint checking (perl -T) - hopefully that is 100%. egrep says I'm clean! Yippy! From preston.lists at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 15:23:53 2014 From: preston.lists at gmail.com (Preston) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 14:23:53 -0500 Subject: [ale] systemd cheatsheet In-Reply-To: <5422C85E.6050009@gmail.com> References: <5422C85E.6050009@gmail.com> Message-ID: <54231A49.5060509@gmail.com> On 9/24/2014 8:34 AM, Paul Cartwright wrote: > On 09/24/2014 08:40 AM, Jim Kinney wrote: >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SysVinit_to_Systemd_Cheatsheet >> >> useful stuff for those who need a quick answer >> > man frobozz gets nothing > (ducking & running..) > > so we go from 3 words to 4 words & move start/stop in front of the app.. > well, it looks to be reversed ordered: service frobozz start systemctl start frobozz.service so, I'm changing my thinking from "I have have a SERVICE called FROBOZZ that I want to START" to "Hey SYSTEMCTL, START the FROBOZZ.SERVICE" yeah, that kind of thinking probably won't help others, but when you're the Lone Ranger you do what you can to get through. Preston -- Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. -Dr. Seuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From smcbrien at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 15:24:33 2014 From: smcbrien at gmail.com (Scott McBrien) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 15:24:33 -0400 Subject: [ale] Atlanta Red Hat User Group meeting Message-ID: <8FDF5A18-8894-4D04-AE57-2F759738DB56@gmail.com> Ale'ers, For the past few months we've been running a Red Hat User Group at the Red Hat office in Buckhead. I recently scheduled our next meeting to be October 21, and it'll cover some performance tuning things on RHEL7, though the topics are also applicable to RHEL6. You can find details about the event at our meetup: http://www.meetup.com/Atlanta-Red-Hat-User-Group/ We request that participants are technical and Red Hat customers. -Scott From jim.kinney at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 15:38:11 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 15:38:11 -0400 Subject: [ale] Systemd for October? In-Reply-To: <540BABC7.1070703@trausch.us> References: <540BABC7.1070703@trausch.us> Message-ID: Mike You're up for talk on Oct 16 on systemd. Still good? On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 8:50 PM, Michael B. Trausch wrote: > Would there be interest in me putting together a talk for systemd and > presenting it in October? > > I can't do it this month... still getting over the ick from post-surgery > and wouldn't be able to do a good job at all. Still haven't gone more than > about 2 miles away from the house since then... > > Anyway, let me know! > > ? Mike > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdp at algoloma.com Wed Sep 24 15:53:24 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 15:53:24 -0400 Subject: [ale] Systemd for October? In-Reply-To: <540CECE4.2040402@gmail.com> References: <540BABC7.1070703@trausch.us> <540C3572.50607@gmail.com> <540C48F4.4000609@gmail.com> <540C5CD2.8060101@algoloma.com> <540C68B6.2070401@gmail.com> <540C6E76.6050400@algoloma.com> <540C79BA.8070205@gmail.com> <540CECE4.2040402@gmail.com> Message-ID: <54232134.6050603@algoloma.com> On 09/07/2014 07:40 PM, Leam Hall wrote: > On 09/07/14 11:28, Paul Cartwright wrote: >> On 09/07/2014 10:40 AM, JD wrote: >>>> what about skype recording.. >>>>> http://www.dvdvideosoft.com/products/dvd/Free-Video-Call-Recorder-for-Skype.htm >>>>> >>>>> >>> Are you volunteering? Great! >> and I noticed after I looked that up, that it was a Winders .EXE download... >> > > I was more thinking a recording on someone's laptop, with some slides. Heck, a > slide deck and audio would be pretty awesome. > So - do you have a good solution for recording audio for a walking, talking, speaker? I've seen some microphones with long cords that might work, but $50 beyond what I already donate for something that probably won't work seems like a waste. I do have a hidef webcam and it will record nicely, just the audio is a problem. Does anyone have suggestions for audio recording solutions that will limit background noise and won't run down a smartphone battery (assuming a smartphone solution is optional). From jim.kinney at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 16:12:59 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 16:12:59 -0400 Subject: [ale] Atlanta Red Hat User Group meeting In-Reply-To: <8FDF5A18-8894-4D04-AE57-2F759738DB56@gmail.com> References: <8FDF5A18-8894-4D04-AE57-2F759738DB56@gmail.com> Message-ID: Didn't know there was a RedHat users group in Atlanta. Of course, I don't get out much so... Right now I want to see some bug fixes in rhel7 (centos7) as the desktop crashes often :-( On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 3:24 PM, Scott McBrien wrote: > Ale'ers, > > For the past few months we've been running a Red Hat User Group at the > Red Hat office in Buckhead. I recently scheduled our next meeting to be > October 21, and it'll cover some performance tuning things on RHEL7, though > the topics are also applicable to RHEL6. You can find details about the > event at our meetup: > > http://www.meetup.com/Atlanta-Red-Hat-User-Group/ > > We request that participants are technical and Red Hat customers. > > -Scott > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dev.null.02 at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 16:22:15 2014 From: dev.null.02 at gmail.com (dev null zero two) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 16:22:15 -0400 Subject: [ale] Atlanta Red Hat User Group meeting In-Reply-To: References: <8FDF5A18-8894-4D04-AE57-2F759738DB56@gmail.com> Message-ID: or the fact that the manual partitioning tool in the rhel 7 (centos) installer doesn't work that well (with hardware RAID and fibrechannel specifically). the one in 6.5 works perfectly though. though I was able to do an in-place upgrade from CentOS 6.5 to 7 without issue using redhat-upgrade-tool-cli ! On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 4:12 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > Didn't know there was a RedHat users group in Atlanta. Of course, I don't > get out much so... > > Right now I want to see some bug fixes in rhel7 (centos7) as the desktop > crashes often :-( > > On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 3:24 PM, Scott McBrien wrote: > > > Ale'ers, > > > > For the past few months we've been running a Red Hat User Group at the > > Red Hat office in Buckhead. I recently scheduled our next meeting to be > > October 21, and it'll cover some performance tuning things on RHEL7, > though > > the topics are also applicable to RHEL6. You can find details about the > > event at our meetup: > > > > http://www.meetup.com/Atlanta-Red-Hat-User-Group/ > > > > We request that participants are technical and Red Hat customers. > > > > -Scott > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > > > -- > -- > James P. Kinney III > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. > It won't fatten the dog. > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > * > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140924/558e93a2/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 16:23:33 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 16:23:33 -0400 Subject: [ale] Atlanta Red Hat User Group meeting In-Reply-To: References: <8FDF5A18-8894-4D04-AE57-2F759738DB56@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 4:22 PM, dev null zero two wrote: > or the fact that the manual partitioning tool in the rhel 7 (centos) > installer doesn't work that well (with hardware RAID and fibrechannel > specifically). the one in 6.5 works perfectly though. > > though I was able to do an in-place upgrade from CentOS 6.5 to 7 without > issue using redhat-upgrade-tool-cli ! > Brave! I just build new systems and repurpose the old ones for dev boxes. > > On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 4:12 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > >> Didn't know there was a RedHat users group in Atlanta. Of course, I don't >> get out much so... >> >> Right now I want to see some bug fixes in rhel7 (centos7) as the desktop >> crashes often :-( >> >> On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 3:24 PM, Scott McBrien >> wrote: >> >> > Ale'ers, >> > >> > For the past few months we've been running a Red Hat User Group at the >> > Red Hat office in Buckhead. I recently scheduled our next meeting to be >> > October 21, and it'll cover some performance tuning things on RHEL7, >> though >> > the topics are also applicable to RHEL6. You can find details about the >> > event at our meetup: >> > >> > http://www.meetup.com/Atlanta-Red-Hat-User-Group/ >> > >> > We request that participants are technical and Red Hat customers. >> > >> > -Scott >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Ale mailing list >> > Ale at ale.org >> > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> -- >> James P. Kinney III >> >> Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain >> at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. >> It won't fatten the dog. >> - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain >> >> >> *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ >> * >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: < >> http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140924/558e93a2/attachment.html >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> > > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From smcbrien at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 16:24:25 2014 From: smcbrien at gmail.com (Scott McBrien) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 16:24:25 -0400 Subject: [ale] Atlanta Red Hat User Group meeting In-Reply-To: References: <8FDF5A18-8894-4D04-AE57-2F759738DB56@gmail.com> Message-ID: <82F7C76C-5FDB-4632-A653-F69190C3EB72@gmail.com> I don't have that problem, though Nvidia support is pretty bad at the moment, so I've seen a ton of 'freezes' on Nvidia Quatros. Booting with acpi=off as a kernel arg seems to fix that, but makes your display not so nice. -Scott > On Sep 24, 2014, at 4:12 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > > Didn't know there was a RedHat users group in Atlanta. Of course, I don't > get out much so... > > Right now I want to see some bug fixes in rhel7 (centos7) as the desktop > crashes often :-( > >> On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 3:24 PM, Scott McBrien wrote: >> >> Ale'ers, >> >> For the past few months we've been running a Red Hat User Group at the >> Red Hat office in Buckhead. I recently scheduled our next meeting to be >> October 21, and it'll cover some performance tuning things on RHEL7, though >> the topics are also applicable to RHEL6. You can find details about the >> event at our meetup: >> >> http://www.meetup.com/Atlanta-Red-Hat-User-Group/ >> >> We request that participants are technical and Red Hat customers. >> >> -Scott >> _______________________________________________ >> Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > -- > -- > James P. Kinney III > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. > It won't fatten the dog. > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > * > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo From JLightner at dsservices.com Wed Sep 24 16:27:46 2014 From: JLightner at dsservices.com (Lightner, Jeff) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 20:27:46 +0000 Subject: [ale] Atlanta Red Hat User Group meeting In-Reply-To: <8FDF5A18-8894-4D04-AE57-2F759738DB56@gmail.com> References: <8FDF5A18-8894-4D04-AE57-2F759738DB56@gmail.com> Message-ID: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EC664A@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> Thanks for posting this. Leaving out bitching about CentOS since I do actually use RHEL and can complain about that through official channels. :p -----Original Message----- From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Scott McBrien Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2014 3:26 PM To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts Subject: [ale] Atlanta Red Hat User Group meeting Ale'ers, For the past few months we've been running a Red Hat User Group at the Red Hat office in Buckhead. I recently scheduled our next meeting to be October 21, and it'll cover some performance tuning things on RHEL7, though the topics are also applicable to RHEL6. You can find details about the event at our meetup: http://www.meetup.com/Atlanta-Red-Hat-User-Group/ We request that participants are technical and Red Hat customers. -Scott _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo Athena(r), Created for the Cause(tm) Making a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Cancer __________________________________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged or confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you From jkinney at jimkinney.us Wed Sep 24 16:29:55 2014 From: jkinney at jimkinney.us (Jim Kinney) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 16:29:55 -0400 Subject: [ale] Atlanta Red Hat User Group meeting In-Reply-To: <82F7C76C-5FDB-4632-A653-F69190C3EB72@gmail.com> References: <8FDF5A18-8894-4D04-AE57-2F759738DB56@gmail.com> <82F7C76C-5FDB-4632-A653-F69190C3EB72@gmail.com> Message-ID: Yep. Nvidia hardware with their blob installed. Nouveau choked on 4 monitors. Will try the acpi=off on next crash On September 24, 2014 4:24:25 PM EDT, Scott McBrien wrote: >I don't have that problem, though Nvidia support is pretty bad at the >moment, so I've seen a ton of 'freezes' on Nvidia Quatros. Booting >with acpi=off as a kernel arg seems to fix that, but makes your display >not so nice. > >-Scott > > >> On Sep 24, 2014, at 4:12 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: >> >> Didn't know there was a RedHat users group in Atlanta. Of course, I >don't >> get out much so... >> >> Right now I want to see some bug fixes in rhel7 (centos7) as the >desktop >> crashes often :-( >> >>> On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 3:24 PM, Scott McBrien >wrote: >>> >>> Ale'ers, >>> >>> For the past few months we've been running a Red Hat User Group at >the >>> Red Hat office in Buckhead. I recently scheduled our next meeting >to be >>> October 21, and it'll cover some performance tuning things on RHEL7, >though >>> the topics are also applicable to RHEL6. You can find details about >the >>> event at our meetup: >>> >>> http://www.meetup.com/Atlanta-Red-Hat-User-Group/ >>> >>> We request that participants are technical and Red Hat customers. >>> >>> -Scott >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ale mailing list >>> Ale at ale.org >>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> >> >> >> -- >> -- >> James P. Kinney III >> >> Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you >gain >> at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own >tail. >> It won't fatten the dog. >> - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain >> >> >> *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ >> * >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: > >> _______________________________________________ >> Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > >_______________________________________________ >Ale mailing list >Ale at ale.org >http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -- Jim Kinney Linux Systems Analyst Physicist/Brewer http://jimkinney.us -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mike at trausch.us Wed Sep 24 17:17:09 2014 From: mike at trausch.us (Michael B. Trausch) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 17:17:09 -0400 Subject: [ale] Systemd for October? In-Reply-To: References: <540BABC7.1070703@trausch.us> Message-ID: <542334D5.1020105@trausch.us> On 09/24/2014 03:38 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > Mike > > You're up for talk on Oct 16 on systemd. Still good? Yep, it'll happen! ? Mike From deritchie at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 17:37:42 2014 From: deritchie at gmail.com (David Ritchie) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 17:37:42 -0400 Subject: [ale] critical bash security bug in the wild Message-ID: https://access.redhat.com/articles/1200223?sc_cid=70160000000e8eaAAA& Also seen in Solaris - there is probably others... -- David -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From terrorpup at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 17:43:29 2014 From: terrorpup at gmail.com (Chuck Payne) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 17:43:29 -0400 Subject: [ale] critical bash security bug in the wild In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I was just abot to ask if there is a fix for CentOS6 as it there. https://securityblog.redhat.com/2014/09/24/bash-specially-crafted-environment-variables-code-injection-attack/ env x='() { :;}; echo vulnerable' bash -c "echo this is a test" vulnerable this is a test On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 5:37 PM, David Ritchie wrote: > https://access.redhat.com/articles/1200223?sc_cid=70160000000e8eaAAA& > > Also seen in Solaris - there is probably others... > > > -- David > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140924/8fd72427/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- Terror PUP a.k.a Chuck "PUP" Payne 678 636 9678 ----------------------------------------- Discover it! Enjoy it! Share it! openSUSE Linux. ----------------------------------------- openSUSE -- Terrorpup openSUSE Ambassador/openSUSE Member skype,twiiter,identica,friendfeed -- terrorpup freenode(irc) --terrorpup/lupinstein Register Linux Userid: 155363 Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From terrorpup at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 18:01:25 2014 From: terrorpup at gmail.com (Chuck Payne) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 18:01:25 -0400 Subject: [ale] critical bash security bug in the wild In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Looks like updates are there for CentOS You should 'yum update' as soon as possible to resolve this issue. Here's why you should care: https://securityblog.redhat.com/2014/09/24/bash-specially-crafted-environment-variables-code-injection-attack/ Links to the centos updates: CentOS-5:http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-announce/2014-September/020582.html CentOS-6:http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-announce/2014-September/020585.html CentOS-7:http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-announce/2014-September/020583.html On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 5:43 PM, Chuck Payne wrote: > I was just abot to ask if there is a fix for CentOS6 as it there. > > > https://securityblog.redhat.com/2014/09/24/bash-specially-crafted-environment-variables-code-injection-attack/ > > env x='() { :;}; echo vulnerable' bash -c "echo this is a test" > vulnerable > this is a test > > > On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 5:37 PM, David Ritchie > wrote: > >> https://access.redhat.com/articles/1200223?sc_cid=70160000000e8eaAAA& >> >> Also seen in Solaris - there is probably others... >> >> >> -- David >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: < >> http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140924/8fd72427/attachment.html >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> > > > > -- > Terror PUP a.k.a > Chuck "PUP" Payne > > 678 636 9678 > ----------------------------------------- > Discover it! Enjoy it! Share it! openSUSE Linux. > ----------------------------------------- > openSUSE -- Terrorpup > openSUSE Ambassador/openSUSE Member > skype,twiiter,identica,friendfeed -- terrorpup > freenode(irc) --terrorpup/lupinstein > Register Linux Userid: 155363 > > Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to > package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio > a try. > > -- Terror PUP a.k.a Chuck "PUP" Payne 678 636 9678 ----------------------------------------- Discover it! Enjoy it! Share it! openSUSE Linux. ----------------------------------------- openSUSE -- Terrorpup openSUSE Ambassador/openSUSE Member skype,twiiter,identica,friendfeed -- terrorpup freenode(irc) --terrorpup/lupinstein Register Linux Userid: 155363 Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adrya.stembridge at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 19:16:44 2014 From: adrya.stembridge at gmail.com (Adrya Stembridge) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 19:16:44 -0400 Subject: [ale] critical bash security bug in the wild In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Linux Mint 15 and 17 are showing vulnerable. No patch available in apt as of 7:15p. On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 6:01 PM, Chuck Payne wrote: > Looks like updates are there for CentOS > > You should 'yum update' as soon as possible to resolve this issue. > > > Here's why you should care: > > https://securityblog.redhat.com/2014/09/24/bash-specially-crafted-environment-variables-code-injection-attack/ > > > Links to the centos updates: > > CentOS-5: > http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-announce/2014-September/020582.html > > CentOS-6: > http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-announce/2014-September/020585.html > > CentOS-7: > http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-announce/2014-September/020583.html > > > On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 5:43 PM, Chuck Payne wrote: > > > I was just abot to ask if there is a fix for CentOS6 as it there. > > > > > > > https://securityblog.redhat.com/2014/09/24/bash-specially-crafted-environment-variables-code-injection-attack/ > > > > env x='() { :;}; echo vulnerable' bash -c "echo this is a test" > > vulnerable > > this is a test > > > > > > On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 5:37 PM, David Ritchie > > wrote: > > > >> https://access.redhat.com/articles/1200223?sc_cid=70160000000e8eaAAA& > >> > >> Also seen in Solaris - there is probably others... > >> > >> > >> -- David > >> -------------- next part -------------- > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >> URL: < > >> > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140924/8fd72427/attachment.html > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Ale mailing list > >> Ale at ale.org > >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Terror PUP a.k.a > > Chuck "PUP" Payne > > > > 678 636 9678 > > ----------------------------------------- > > Discover it! Enjoy it! Share it! openSUSE Linux. > > ----------------------------------------- > > openSUSE -- Terrorpup > > openSUSE Ambassador/openSUSE Member > > skype,twiiter,identica,friendfeed -- terrorpup > > freenode(irc) --terrorpup/lupinstein > > Register Linux Userid: 155363 > > > > Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to > > package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE > Studio > > a try. > > > > > > > -- > Terror PUP a.k.a > Chuck "PUP" Payne > > 678 636 9678 > ----------------------------------------- > Discover it! Enjoy it! Share it! openSUSE Linux. > ----------------------------------------- > openSUSE -- Terrorpup > openSUSE Ambassador/openSUSE Member > skype,twiiter,identica,friendfeed -- terrorpup > freenode(irc) --terrorpup/lupinstein > Register Linux Userid: 155363 > > Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to > package and distribute , or create your own linux distro. Give SUSE Studio > a try. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140924/66f138d6/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From preston.lists at gmail.com Thu Sep 25 10:03:39 2014 From: preston.lists at gmail.com (Preston) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 09:03:39 -0500 Subject: [ale] Systemd for October? In-Reply-To: <542334D5.1020105@trausch.us> References: <540BABC7.1070703@trausch.us> <542334D5.1020105@trausch.us> Message-ID: <542420BB.1010704@gmail.com> On 9/24/2014 4:17 PM, Michael B. Trausch wrote: > On 09/24/2014 03:38 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: >> Mike >> >> You're up for talk on Oct 16 on systemd. Still good? > Yep, it'll happen! > > ? Mike for those of us planning to attend, where will this be held? (looking forward to putting faces to the names I've replied to over the years) Preston -- Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don?t matter and those who matter don?t mind. -Dr. Seuss From pbcartwright at gmail.com Thu Sep 25 10:12:37 2014 From: pbcartwright at gmail.com (Paul Cartwright) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 10:12:37 -0400 Subject: [ale] / 70% full Message-ID: <542422D5.60103@gmail.com> ok, this isn't an urgent issue ( yet).. my fedora 20 root partition is 72% full. I gave it 20GB ( you will never need more than that, right;-0) and right now it has 5.1Gb free, with 14GB used.. on another partition I just installed openSUSE in a similar 20GB root, and it is only 32% full, and that is with both MATE & KDE installed.. what could I look to remove ?? does fedora keep all copies of software installed somewhere that I can delete?? is there some creeping files that grow?? am I missing something? -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 From leamhall at gmail.com Thu Sep 25 10:18:03 2014 From: leamhall at gmail.com (leam hall) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 10:18:03 -0400 Subject: [ale] / 70% full In-Reply-To: <542422D5.60103@gmail.com> References: <542422D5.60103@gmail.com> Message-ID: yum clean all du -k / | sort -n > /tmp/du.root tail -10 /tmp/du.root find / -size +4000 -exec ls -l {} \; On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Paul Cartwright wrote: > ok, this isn't an urgent issue ( yet).. my fedora 20 root partition is > 72% full. I gave it 20GB ( you will never need more than that, right;-0) > and right now it has 5.1Gb free, with 14GB used.. on another partition I > just installed openSUSE in a similar 20GB root, and it is only 32% full, > and that is with both MATE & KDE installed.. > what could I look to remove ?? does fedora keep all copies of software > installed somewhere that I can delete?? is there some creeping files > that grow?? am I missing something? > > -- > Paul Cartwright > Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -- Mind on a Mission From jim.kinney at gmail.com Thu Sep 25 10:26:26 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 10:26:26 -0400 Subject: [ale] Systemd for October? In-Reply-To: <542420BB.1010704@gmail.com> References: <540BABC7.1070703@trausch.us> <542334D5.1020105@trausch.us> <542420BB.1010704@gmail.com> Message-ID: Emory University BMI department classroom PAIS building, 5th floor 36 Eagle Row Atlanta GA 30322 On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 10:03 AM, Preston wrote: > On 9/24/2014 4:17 PM, Michael B. Trausch wrote: > > On 09/24/2014 03:38 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > >> Mike > >> > >> You're up for talk on Oct 16 on systemd. Still good? > > Yep, it'll happen! > > > > ? Mike > for those of us planning to attend, where will this be held? > > (looking forward to putting faces to the names I've replied to over the > years) > > Preston > > -- > Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don?t matter > and those who matter don?t mind. > -Dr. Seuss > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JLightner at dsservices.com Thu Sep 25 11:10:20 2014 From: JLightner at dsservices.com (Lightner, Jeff) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 15:10:20 +0000 Subject: [ale] / 70% full In-Reply-To: References: <542422D5.60103@gmail.com> Message-ID: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EC6EAD@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> Usually I do a 'find / -name core" first to make sure there aren't any large core dumps files from aborted processes. Doing "file core" on any found will show you what it was that aborted and give the signal (usually sigsegv) that caused the abort. If it is fairly old I usually just delete it. Anything more recent I might delve into to figure out why it died. Also I do a 'find / -name "*.tar"' to see if there are any large tar bundles. Often running gzip or other compression on them will get back space. After that I usually look in /tmp and /var/tmp first to be sure there aren't old temporary files that can go away. Next I look to see if any logs have gotten unusually large. (Be sure NOT to delete a log file until you've verified it is not "open" by a process (losf will tell you if it is.) In such a case you can truncate but not delete (or you can stop the process, delete then restart the process). Doing the find Leam mentions is a good way to find large files. Just be sure you don't automatically delete anything until you know what it is. On our systems I separate out /tmp, /var, /usr, /opt and any application/database directories so as to avoid filling / itself. -----Original Message----- From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of leam hall Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 10:19 AM To: Paul Cartwright; Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [ale] / 70% full yum clean all du -k / | sort -n > /tmp/du.root tail -10 /tmp/du.root find / -size +4000 -exec ls -l {} \; On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Paul Cartwright wrote: > ok, this isn't an urgent issue ( yet).. my fedora 20 root partition is > 72% full. I gave it 20GB ( you will never need more than that, > right;-0) and right now it has 5.1Gb free, with 14GB used.. on another > partition I just installed openSUSE in a similar 20GB root, and it is > only 32% full, and that is with both MATE & KDE installed.. > what could I look to remove ?? does fedora keep all copies of software > installed somewhere that I can delete?? is there some creeping files > that grow?? am I missing something? > > -- > Paul Cartwright > Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -- Mind on a Mission _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo Athena(r), Created for the Cause(tm) Making a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Cancer __________________________________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged or confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you From pbcartwright at gmail.com Thu Sep 25 11:57:16 2014 From: pbcartwright at gmail.com (Paul Cartwright) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 11:57:16 -0400 Subject: [ale] / 70% full In-Reply-To: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EC6EAD@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> References: <542422D5.60103@gmail.com> <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EC6EAD@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> Message-ID: <54243B5C.3080104@gmail.com> On 09/25/2014 11:10 AM, Lightner, Jeff wrote: > Usually I do a 'find / -name core" first to make sure there aren't any large core dumps files from aborted processes. Doing "file core" on any found will show you what it was that aborted and give the signal (usually sigsegv) that caused the abort. If it is fairly old I usually just delete it. Anything more recent I might delve into to figure out why it died. > > Also I do a 'find / -name "*.tar"' to see if there are any large tar bundles. Often running gzip or other compression on them will get back space. > > After that I usually look in /tmp and /var/tmp first to be sure there aren't old temporary files that can go away. > > Next I look to see if any logs have gotten unusually large. (Be sure NOT to delete a log file until you've verified it is not "open" by a process (losf will tell you if it is.) In such a case you can truncate but not delete (or you can stop the process, delete then restart the process). > > Doing the find Leam mentions is a good way to find large files. Just be sure you don't automatically delete anything until you know what it is. > > On our systems I separate out /tmp, /var, /usr, /opt and any application/database directories so as to avoid filling / itself. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of leam hall > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 10:19 AM > To: Paul Cartwright; Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts > Subject: Re: [ale] / 70% full > > yum clean all > > du -k / | sort -n > /tmp/du.root > tail -10 /tmp/du.root > > find / -size +4000 -exec ls -l {} \; > > ok, after umounting my extra partitions ( backups, etc)... the only core files I found were all folders, under programs. found 1 tar file, cleaned up /tmp & /var/tmp and got it down to 66% used... cleaned up about 1GB.. still have 12 GB used. -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 From ted-lists at xy0.org Thu Sep 25 12:04:12 2014 From: ted-lists at xy0.org (Ted W) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 12:04:12 -0400 Subject: [ale] critical bash security bug in the wild In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <54243CFC.1000302@xy0.org> On 09/24/14 18:01, Chuck Payne wrote: > Looks like updates are there for CentOS > > You should 'yum update' as soon as possible to resolve this issue. > > > Here's why you should care: > https://securityblog.redhat.com/2014/09/24/bash-specially-crafted-environment-variables-code-injection-attack/ > > > Links to the centos updates: > > CentOS-5:http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-announce/2014-September/020582.html > > CentOS-6:http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-announce/2014-September/020585.html > > CentOS-7:http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-announce/2014-September/020583.html > Just as a heads up. The initial patches are most likely insufficient (at least for RHEL [and thus CentOS]). Some of the top vulnerability researches have already found bypasses so don't be surprised to see another, strong patch out for RHEL soon. It has also been found that the vulnerability is "worm-able" through Linux DHCP servers. -- Ted W. From kd4hlv at gmail.com Thu Sep 25 12:07:07 2014 From: kd4hlv at gmail.com (Marty) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 12:07:07 -0400 Subject: [ale] SSL Certificate Message-ID: I'm still in search of help installing a SSL Certificate on my webpage is there anyone that can install it? I'm having the hardest time trying to find where it goes. I can do a lot with Linux but this is new for me. I would even consider paying someone it if not too much! Marty -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ted-lists at xy0.org Thu Sep 25 12:17:49 2014 From: ted-lists at xy0.org (Ted W) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 12:17:49 -0400 Subject: [ale] SSL Certificate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5424402D.3020502@xy0.org> On 09/25/14 12:07, Marty wrote: > I'm still in search of help installing a SSL Certificate on my webpage is > there anyone that can install it? I'm having the hardest time trying to > find where it goes. I can do a lot with Linux but this is new for me. I > would even consider paying someone it if not too much! > > Marty > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > The cert location can be changed in the apache config files. Check your apache configuration for a line starting with "SSLCertificateFile" to find out where it's looking in your particular case. -- Ted W. From mike at trausch.us Thu Sep 25 12:30:01 2014 From: mike at trausch.us (Michael Trausch) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 12:30:01 -0400 Subject: [ale] Systemd for October? In-Reply-To: <54232134.6050603@algoloma.com> References: <540BABC7.1070703@trausch.us> <540C3572.50607@gmail.com> <540C48F4.4000609@gmail.com> <540C5CD2.8060101@algoloma.com> <540C68B6.2070401@gmail.com> <540C6E76.6050400@algoloma.com> <540C79BA.8070205@gmail.com> <540CECE4.2040402@gmail.com> <54232134.6050603@algoloma.com> Message-ID: First thought: I can call into a conference bridge. Audio only. Second thought, I can make the slides available before the meeting so remotes are able to follow along. That requires some auditory slide changing queue tho. Third thought, I put something. Together where I can essentially use my phone system and a little tcp connection to provide a somewhat discordant presentation to the remotes, but no cues required. Am of course open to other ideas. I think video of me is wholly unimportant, so I haven't been considering full-video solutions. If the remotes for the meeting (I assume you know who you are) think differently let me know. Sent from my iPad > On Sep 24, 2014, at 3:53 PM, JD wrote: > >> On 09/07/2014 07:40 PM, Leam Hall wrote: >>> On 09/07/14 11:28, Paul Cartwright wrote: >>>> On 09/07/2014 10:40 AM, JD wrote: >>>>>> what about skype recording.. >>>>>> http://www.dvdvideosoft.com/products/dvd/Free-Video-Call-Recorder-for-Skype.htm >>>> Are you volunteering? Great! >>> and I noticed after I looked that up, that it was a Winders .EXE download... >> >> I was more thinking a recording on someone's laptop, with some slides. Heck, a >> slide deck and audio would be pretty awesome. > > > So - do you have a good solution for recording audio for a walking, talking, > speaker? I've seen some microphones with long cords that might work, but $50 > beyond what I already donate for something that probably won't work seems like a > waste. > > I do have a hidef webcam and it will record nicely, just the audio is a problem. > > Does anyone have suggestions for audio recording solutions that will limit > background noise and won't run down a smartphone battery (assuming a smartphone > solution is optional). > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo From deepbsd at yahoo.com Thu Sep 25 17:22:05 2014 From: deepbsd at yahoo.com (David Jackson) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 14:22:05 -0700 Subject: [ale] returned to the list... Message-ID: <1411680125.66424.YahooMailNeo@web165001.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> It's been a long time since I've been on the list (maybe 8-9 years?), and I thought I'd say hi. I set up some Linux boxes here at home and am getting in the swing of it all once again I'm sure I'll have questions, because prior to recently, the last distro I installed was Slackware 10.1! :-) My how things have changed on the distro front. Well, I'll sit back and watch for a while and raise my hand when I break something. Good to be back! Dave -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jkinney at jimkinney.us Thu Sep 25 18:49:37 2014 From: jkinney at jimkinney.us (Jim Kinney) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 18:49:37 -0400 Subject: [ale] returned to the list... In-Reply-To: <1411680125.66424.YahooMailNeo@web165001.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1411680125.66424.YahooMailNeo@web165001.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5c89b57d-b8d7-4ad1-b088-2022f6dbee48@email.android.com> Welcome back! Let's start a flame war with what distro you most recently installed and why didn't you use ? :-) On September 25, 2014 5:22:05 PM EDT, David Jackson wrote: >It's been a long time since I've been on the list (maybe 8-9 years?), >and I thought I'd say hi. > > >I set up some Linux boxes here at home and am getting in the swing of >it all once again I'm sure I'll have questions, because prior to >recently, the last distro I installed was Slackware 10.1! :-) My how >things have changed on the distro front. > >Well, I'll sit back and watch for a while and raise my hand when I >break something. > > >Good to be back! > >Dave >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: > >_______________________________________________ >Ale mailing list >Ale at ale.org >http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -- Jim Kinney Linux Systems Analyst Physicist/Brewer http://jimkinney.us -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evan at banyash.com Thu Sep 25 19:00:04 2014 From: evan at banyash.com (Evan Banyash) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 19:00:04 -0400 Subject: [ale] returned to the list... In-Reply-To: <5c89b57d-b8d7-4ad1-b088-2022f6dbee48@email.android.com> References: <1411680125.66424.YahooMailNeo@web165001.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <5c89b57d-b8d7-4ad1-b088-2022f6dbee48@email.android.com> Message-ID: Ubuntu, cus of support and before that, Arch because if a package doesn't work on Arch, the community will MAKE IT WORK. I tried Debian but the repos are a mess. The zoneminder package in jessie depended on a lib only found in wheezy-backports. *mess.* On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 6:49 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > Welcome back! > > Let's start a flame war with what distro you most recently installed and > why didn't you use ? > > :-) > > On September 25, 2014 5:22:05 PM EDT, David Jackson > wrote: > >It's been a long time since I've been on the list (maybe 8-9 years?), > >and I thought I'd say hi. > > > > > >I set up some Linux boxes here at home and am getting in the swing of > >it all once again I'm sure I'll have questions, because prior to > >recently, the last distro I installed was Slackware 10.1! :-) My how > >things have changed on the distro front. > > > >Well, I'll sit back and watch for a while and raise my hand when I > >break something. > > > > > >Good to be back! > > > >Dave > >-------------- next part -------------- > >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >URL: > >< > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140925/da548cff/attachment.html > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Ale mailing list > >Ale at ale.org > >http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > >See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > >http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > -- > Jim Kinney > Linux Systems Analyst > Physicist/Brewer > http://jimkinney.us > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140925/a82a3e4f/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mike at trausch.us Thu Sep 25 19:13:58 2014 From: mike at trausch.us (Michael Trausch) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 19:13:58 -0400 Subject: [ale] returned to the list... In-Reply-To: <5c89b57d-b8d7-4ad1-b088-2022f6dbee48@email.android.com> References: <1411680125.66424.YahooMailNeo@web165001.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <5c89b57d-b8d7-4ad1-b088-2022f6dbee48@email.android.com> Message-ID: I'll jump in, and true to recent form, right back out. :) Fedora and CentOS, depending on the reason for the system. Why? Because I can very easily support dozens and dozens of the boxes while lifting very few fingers. It's not ideal---and believe you me, no distribution is, yet. The closer I get to end-users, the more I realize the truth that it isn't about the system. It isn't even about the support. It is about the ability to provide SUPERIOR support with minimum resources. An ideal distribution would cover that on all consumer visible fronts. We posixheads are great great great with the stuff the end user doesn't see or the PHB doesn't support. We need to become better about the other area in the pool... Anyway I am throwing away today's soapbox. Back to your regular chatter.... Sent from my iPad > On Sep 25, 2014, at 6:49 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > > Welcome back! > > Let's start a flame war with what distro you most recently installed and why didn't you use ? > > :-) > >> On September 25, 2014 5:22:05 PM EDT, David Jackson wrote: >> It's been a long time since I've been on the list (maybe 8-9 years?), >> and I thought I'd say hi. >> >> >> I set up some Linux boxes here at home and am getting in the swing of >> it all once again I'm sure I'll have questions, because prior to >> recently, the last distro I installed was Slackware 10.1! :-) My how >> things have changed on the distro front. >> >> Well, I'll sit back and watch for a while and raise my hand when I >> break something. >> >> >> Good to be back! >> >> Dave >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > -- > Jim Kinney > Linux Systems Analyst > Physicist/Brewer > http://jimkinney.us > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo From pete.hardie at gmail.com Thu Sep 25 20:41:40 2014 From: pete.hardie at gmail.com (Pete Hardie) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 20:41:40 -0400 Subject: [ale] returned to the list... In-Reply-To: References: <1411680125.66424.YahooMailNeo@web165001.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <5c89b57d-b8d7-4ad1-b088-2022f6dbee48@email.android.com> Message-ID: vi or emacs? On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 7:13 PM, Michael Trausch wrote: > I'll jump in, and true to recent form, right back out. :) > > Fedora and CentOS, depending on the reason for the system. Why? Because I > can very easily support dozens and dozens of the boxes while lifting very > few fingers. It's not ideal---and believe you me, no distribution is, yet. > The closer I get to end-users, the more I realize the truth that it isn't > about the system. It isn't even about the support. It is about the ability > to provide SUPERIOR support with minimum resources. An ideal distribution > would cover that on all consumer visible fronts. We posixheads are great > great great with the stuff the end user doesn't see or the PHB doesn't > support. We need to become better about the other area in the pool... > > Anyway I am throwing away today's soapbox. Back to your regular chatter.... > > Sent from my iPad > > > On Sep 25, 2014, at 6:49 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > > > > Welcome back! > > > > Let's start a flame war with what distro you most recently installed and > why didn't you use ? > > > > :-) > > > >> On September 25, 2014 5:22:05 PM EDT, David Jackson > wrote: > >> It's been a long time since I've been on the list (maybe 8-9 years?), > >> and I thought I'd say hi. > >> > >> > >> I set up some Linux boxes here at home and am getting in the swing of > >> it all once again I'm sure I'll have questions, because prior to > >> recently, the last distro I installed was Slackware 10.1! :-) My how > >> things have changed on the distro front. > >> > >> Well, I'll sit back and watch for a while and raise my hand when I > >> break something. > >> > >> > >> Good to be back! > >> > >> Dave > >> -------------- next part -------------- > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >> URL: > >> < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140925/da548cff/attachment.html > > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Ale mailing list > >> Ale at ale.org > >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > -- > > Jim Kinney > > Linux Systems Analyst > > Physicist/Brewer > > http://jimkinney.us > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140925/a82a3e4f/attachment.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- Pete Hardie -------- Better Living Through Bitmaps -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evan at banyash.com Thu Sep 25 20:44:32 2014 From: evan at banyash.com (Evan Banyash) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 20:44:32 -0400 Subject: [ale] returned to the list... In-Reply-To: References: <1411680125.66424.YahooMailNeo@web165001.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <5c89b57d-b8d7-4ad1-b088-2022f6dbee48@email.android.com> Message-ID: vi*m* On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 8:41 PM, Pete Hardie wrote: > vi or emacs? > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 7:13 PM, Michael Trausch wrote: > > > I'll jump in, and true to recent form, right back out. :) > > > > Fedora and CentOS, depending on the reason for the system. Why? Because I > > can very easily support dozens and dozens of the boxes while lifting very > > few fingers. It's not ideal---and believe you me, no distribution is, > yet. > > The closer I get to end-users, the more I realize the truth that it isn't > > about the system. It isn't even about the support. It is about the > ability > > to provide SUPERIOR support with minimum resources. An ideal distribution > > would cover that on all consumer visible fronts. We posixheads are great > > great great with the stuff the end user doesn't see or the PHB doesn't > > support. We need to become better about the other area in the pool... > > > > Anyway I am throwing away today's soapbox. Back to your regular > chatter.... > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > On Sep 25, 2014, at 6:49 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > > > > > > Welcome back! > > > > > > Let's start a flame war with what distro you most recently installed > and > > why didn't you use ? > > > > > > :-) > > > > > >> On September 25, 2014 5:22:05 PM EDT, David Jackson < > deepbsd at yahoo.com> > > wrote: > > >> It's been a long time since I've been on the list (maybe 8-9 years?), > > >> and I thought I'd say hi. > > >> > > >> > > >> I set up some Linux boxes here at home and am getting in the swing of > > >> it all once again I'm sure I'll have questions, because prior to > > >> recently, the last distro I installed was Slackware 10.1! :-) My how > > >> things have changed on the distro front. > > >> > > >> Well, I'll sit back and watch for a while and raise my hand when I > > >> break something. > > >> > > >> > > >> Good to be back! > > >> > > >> Dave > > >> -------------- next part -------------- > > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > >> URL: > > >> < > > > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140925/da548cff/attachment.html > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Ale mailing list > > >> Ale at ale.org > > >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > > > -- > > > Jim Kinney > > > Linux Systems Analyst > > > Physicist/Brewer > > > http://jimkinney.us > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > URL: < > > > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140925/a82a3e4f/attachment.html > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Ale mailing list > > > Ale at ale.org > > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > > > -- > Pete Hardie > -------- > Better Living Through Bitmaps > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140925/06cc359d/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bugyatl at gmail.com Thu Sep 25 20:45:45 2014 From: bugyatl at gmail.com (Boris Borisov) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 20:45:45 -0400 Subject: [ale] returned to the list... In-Reply-To: References: <1411680125.66424.YahooMailNeo@web165001.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <5c89b57d-b8d7-4ad1-b088-2022f6dbee48@email.android.com> Message-ID: Ed On Sep 25, 2014 8:45 PM, "Pete Hardie" wrote: > vi or emacs? > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 7:13 PM, Michael Trausch wrote: > > > I'll jump in, and true to recent form, right back out. :) > > > > Fedora and CentOS, depending on the reason for the system. Why? Because I > > can very easily support dozens and dozens of the boxes while lifting very > > few fingers. It's not ideal---and believe you me, no distribution is, > yet. > > The closer I get to end-users, the more I realize the truth that it isn't > > about the system. It isn't even about the support. It is about the > ability > > to provide SUPERIOR support with minimum resources. An ideal distribution > > would cover that on all consumer visible fronts. We posixheads are great > > great great with the stuff the end user doesn't see or the PHB doesn't > > support. We need to become better about the other area in the pool... > > > > Anyway I am throwing away today's soapbox. Back to your regular > chatter.... > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > > > On Sep 25, 2014, at 6:49 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > > > > > > Welcome back! > > > > > > Let's start a flame war with what distro you most recently installed > and > > why didn't you use ? > > > > > > :-) > > > > > >> On September 25, 2014 5:22:05 PM EDT, David Jackson < > deepbsd at yahoo.com> > > wrote: > > >> It's been a long time since I've been on the list (maybe 8-9 years?), > > >> and I thought I'd say hi. > > >> > > >> > > >> I set up some Linux boxes here at home and am getting in the swing of > > >> it all once again I'm sure I'll have questions, because prior to > > >> recently, the last distro I installed was Slackware 10.1! :-) My how > > >> things have changed on the distro front. > > >> > > >> Well, I'll sit back and watch for a while and raise my hand when I > > >> break something. > > >> > > >> > > >> Good to be back! > > >> > > >> Dave > > >> -------------- next part -------------- > > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > >> URL: > > >> < > > > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140925/da548cff/attachment.html > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Ale mailing list > > >> Ale at ale.org > > >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > > > -- > > > Jim Kinney > > > Linux Systems Analyst > > > Physicist/Brewer > > > http://jimkinney.us > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > URL: < > > > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140925/a82a3e4f/attachment.html > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Ale mailing list > > > Ale at ale.org > > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > > > -- > Pete Hardie > -------- > Better Living Through Bitmaps > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140925/06cc359d/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rajaw at c64.us Thu Sep 25 21:38:10 2014 From: rajaw at c64.us (Raj Wurttemberg) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 21:38:10 -0400 Subject: [ale] returned to the list... In-Reply-To: References: <1411680125.66424.YahooMailNeo@web165001.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <5c89b57d-b8d7-4ad1-b088-2022f6dbee48@email.android.com> Message-ID: <008801cfd92a$88f69930$9ae3cb90$@c64.us> Latest Distro: LUbuntu... don't like that wacky "Unity" desktop. Editor: nano (I know.. I know.. ) *but* I am learning to use and like vi. Kind regards, Raj From evan at banyash.com Thu Sep 25 21:43:11 2014 From: evan at banyash.com (Evan Banyash) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 21:43:11 -0400 Subject: [ale] returned to the list... In-Reply-To: <008801cfd92a$88f69930$9ae3cb90$@c64.us> References: <1411680125.66424.YahooMailNeo@web165001.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <5c89b57d-b8d7-4ad1-b088-2022f6dbee48@email.android.com> <008801cfd92a$88f69930$9ae3cb90$@c64.us> Message-ID: Like I always say, LXDE in its current form is abandoned, but LXQT is nowhere near ready for prime time yet. Basically, sometime soon your entire desktop is going to change when Lubuntu moves entirely from a GTK to a Qt based DE. Watch out! On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 9:38 PM, Raj Wurttemberg wrote: > > Latest Distro: LUbuntu... don't like that wacky "Unity" desktop. > > Editor: nano (I know.. I know.. ) *but* I am learning to use and like > vi. > > Kind regards, > Raj > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rajaw at c64.us Thu Sep 25 21:47:37 2014 From: rajaw at c64.us (Raj Wurttemberg) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 21:47:37 -0400 Subject: [ale] returned to the list... In-Reply-To: References: <1411680125.66424.YahooMailNeo@web165001.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <5c89b57d-b8d7-4ad1-b088-2022f6dbee48@email.android.com> <008801cfd92a$88f69930$9ae3cb90$@c64.us> Message-ID: <008901cfd92b$db7717b0$92654710$@c64.us> I remember back in the "old" days (94?) my biggest challenge was to get X-Windows working. I absolutely loved Enlightenment but usually ended up going back to WM because it was more stable. -----Original Message----- From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Evan Banyash Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 9:43 PM To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [ale] returned to the list... Like I always say, LXDE in its current form is abandoned, but LXQT is nowhere near ready for prime time yet. Basically, sometime soon your entire desktop is going to change when Lubuntu moves entirely from a GTK to a Qt based DE. Watch out! On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 9:38 PM, Raj Wurttemberg wrote: > > Latest Distro: LUbuntu... don't like that wacky "Unity" desktop. > > Editor: nano (I know.. I know.. ) *but* I am learning to use and like > vi. > > Kind regards, > Raj > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo From deepbsd at yahoo.com Thu Sep 25 22:13:54 2014 From: deepbsd at yahoo.com (David Jackson) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 19:13:54 -0700 Subject: [ale] returned to the list... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1411697634.65279.YahooMailIosMobile@web165002.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> So far it's been Slack and now Ubuntu. Started with Slack 3.0 and then red hat 3.3 thru 5.x. I used Debian back around Sarge. There was a pretty major change in the libc in Linux then. Many broken systems. I think I remember someone writing a howto to do that upgrade with apt-get and my upgrade went flawlessly. I think there had to be a specific order. Anyway I've always had a soft spot for apt-get after that. But I remember my deb box being way out of date behind the rest of Linux land. So I'm happy to see so many Debian spin offs.

Slack has been instructive and a lot of fun as a box I can tinker with and tweak how I like. But a little harder to update in place without fixing a bunch after. Still a fave distro tho. If I focused on streamlining and getting the upgrades down I'd probably be happy with it forever.

So far Ubuntu seems like a favorite and easy. Not sure how I feel about Canonical. Unity is a great word but they can keep the desktop. Not for me. Typically a fluxbox sort of guy. But I'm trying Mate. So far so good. I love the endless repositories for Ubuntu.

So I used to used procmail and mutt for list traffic. But now it's just Yahoo. Haven't been on a list for years. Is the cruft from yahoo on my emails getting to be a bit much for the list?

Dave

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From skotchman at gmail.com Thu Sep 25 23:09:38 2014 From: skotchman at gmail.com (Scott Castaline) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 23:09:38 -0400 Subject: [ale] returned to the list... In-Reply-To: References: <1411680125.66424.YahooMailNeo@web165001.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <5c89b57d-b8d7-4ad1-b088-2022f6dbee48@email.android.com> Message-ID: <5424D8F2.8060805@gmail.com> C&S!!! On 09/25/2014 08:45 PM, Boris Borisov wrote: > Ed > On Sep 25, 2014 8:45 PM, "Pete Hardie" wrote: > >> vi or emacs? >> >> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 7:13 PM, Michael Trausch wrote: >> >>> I'll jump in, and true to recent form, right back out. :) >>> >>> Fedora and CentOS, depending on the reason for the system. Why? Because I >>> can very easily support dozens and dozens of the boxes while lifting very >>> few fingers. It's not ideal---and believe you me, no distribution is, >> yet. >>> The closer I get to end-users, the more I realize the truth that it isn't >>> about the system. It isn't even about the support. It is about the >> ability >>> to provide SUPERIOR support with minimum resources. An ideal distribution >>> would cover that on all consumer visible fronts. We posixheads are great >>> great great with the stuff the end user doesn't see or the PHB doesn't >>> support. We need to become better about the other area in the pool... >>> >>> Anyway I am throwing away today's soapbox. Back to your regular >> chatter.... >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>> On Sep 25, 2014, at 6:49 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: >>>> >>>> Welcome back! >>>> >>>> Let's start a flame war with what distro you most recently installed >> and >>> why didn't you use ? >>>> :-) >>>> >>>>> On September 25, 2014 5:22:05 PM EDT, David Jackson < >> deepbsd at yahoo.com> >>> wrote: >>>>> It's been a long time since I've been on the list (maybe 8-9 years?), >>>>> and I thought I'd say hi. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I set up some Linux boxes here at home and am getting in the swing of >>>>> it all once again I'm sure I'll have questions, because prior to >>>>> recently, the last distro I installed was Slackware 10.1! :-) My how >>>>> things have changed on the distro front. >>>>> >>>>> Well, I'll sit back and watch for a while and raise my hand when I >>>>> break something. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Good to be back! >>>>> >>>>> Dave >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>>> URL: >>>>> < >> http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140925/da548cff/attachment.html >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Ale mailing list >>>>> Ale at ale.org >>>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >>>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >>>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >>>> -- >>>> Jim Kinney >>>> Linux Systems Analyst >>>> Physicist/Brewer >>>> http://jimkinney.us >>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>> URL: < >> http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140925/a82a3e4f/attachment.html >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Ale mailing list >>>> Ale at ale.org >>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ale mailing list >>> Ale at ale.org >>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >>> >> >> >> -- >> Pete Hardie >> -------- >> Better Living Through Bitmaps >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: < >> http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140925/06cc359d/attachment.html >> _______________________________________________ >> Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -- Sent from my Fedora Linux PC to you, NSA, the CIA, FBI, HSA and God only knows who else?! From brian at stanaland.org Fri Sep 26 08:02:38 2014 From: brian at stanaland.org (Brian Stanaland) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 08:02:38 -0400 Subject: [ale] returned to the list... In-Reply-To: <5424D8F2.8060805@gmail.com> References: <1411680125.66424.YahooMailNeo@web165001.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <5c89b57d-b8d7-4ad1-b088-2022f6dbee48@email.android.com> <5424D8F2.8060805@gmail.com> Message-ID: OpenSUSE. Because SLES is the preferred OS for the systems we make at SGI. --Brian On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 11:09 PM, Scott Castaline wrote: > C&S!!! > > > On 09/25/2014 08:45 PM, Boris Borisov wrote: > >> Ed >> On Sep 25, 2014 8:45 PM, "Pete Hardie" wrote: >> >> vi or emacs? >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 7:13 PM, Michael Trausch >>> wrote: >>> >>> I'll jump in, and true to recent form, right back out. :) >>>> >>>> Fedora and CentOS, depending on the reason for the system. Why? Because >>>> I >>>> can very easily support dozens and dozens of the boxes while lifting >>>> very >>>> few fingers. It's not ideal---and believe you me, no distribution is, >>>> >>> yet. >>> >>>> The closer I get to end-users, the more I realize the truth that it >>>> isn't >>>> about the system. It isn't even about the support. It is about the >>>> >>> ability >>> >>>> to provide SUPERIOR support with minimum resources. An ideal >>>> distribution >>>> would cover that on all consumer visible fronts. We posixheads are great >>>> great great with the stuff the end user doesn't see or the PHB doesn't >>>> support. We need to become better about the other area in the pool... >>>> >>>> Anyway I am throwing away today's soapbox. Back to your regular >>>> >>> chatter.... >>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> On Sep 25, 2014, at 6:49 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Welcome back! >>>>> >>>>> Let's start a flame war with what distro you most recently installed >>>>> >>>> and >>> >>>> why didn't you use ? >>>> >>>>> :-) >>>>> >>>>> On September 25, 2014 5:22:05 PM EDT, David Jackson < >>>>>> >>>>> deepbsd at yahoo.com> >>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> It's been a long time since I've been on the list (maybe 8-9 years?), >>>>>> and I thought I'd say hi. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I set up some Linux boxes here at home and am getting in the swing of >>>>>> it all once again I'm sure I'll have questions, because prior to >>>>>> recently, the last distro I installed was Slackware 10.1! :-) My how >>>>>> things have changed on the distro front. >>>>>> >>>>>> Well, I'll sit back and watch for a while and raise my hand when I >>>>>> break something. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Good to be back! >>>>>> >>>>>> Dave >>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>>>> URL: >>>>>> < >>>>>> >>>>> http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140925/ >>> da548cff/attachment.html >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Ale mailing list >>>>>> Ale at ale.org >>>>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >>>>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >>>>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Jim Kinney >>>>> Linux Systems Analyst >>>>> Physicist/Brewer >>>>> http://jimkinney.us >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>>> URL: < >>>>> >>>> http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140925/ >>> a82a3e4f/attachment.html >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Ale mailing list >>>>> Ale at ale.org >>>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >>>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >>>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Ale mailing list >>>> Ale at ale.org >>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Pete Hardie >>> -------- >>> Better Living Through Bitmaps >>> -------------- next part -------------- >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>> URL: < >>> http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140925/ >>> 06cc359d/attachment.html >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Ale mailing list >>> Ale at ale.org >>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >>> >>> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: > 20140925/469775dc/attachment.html> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> > > > -- > Sent from my Fedora Linux PC to you, NSA, the CIA, FBI, HSA and God only > knows who else?! > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- "Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new." -Albert Einstein -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From philip at turmel.org Fri Sep 26 08:14:54 2014 From: philip at turmel.org (Phil Turmel) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 08:14:54 -0400 Subject: [ale] PSA: Pay attention to your sector alignment In-Reply-To: <5421D2D2.6040706@algoloma.com> References: <5421982F.9020304@xy0.org> <5421D2D2.6040706@algoloma.com> Message-ID: <542558BE.9090906@turmel.org> On 09/23/2014 04:06 PM, JD wrote: > I stopped using fdisk a few years ago - use parted instead. It handles the > alignment correctly by default and handles GPT disks. > > I understand that fdisk is/has been updated and by 2018, it may be safe to use > it by default again ... active distros should be all there by that point. ;) > > gdisk has some issues - or did. Something about force migrating MBR to GPT? I > don't recall - just that fixparts http://www.rodsbooks.com/fixparts/ is the tool > to clean it up. Or is that the tool that causes it? I can't remember. gdisk does assume you want to migrate to GPT, but it has an advanced option to reverse the migration. Handy on occasion. Fwiw, my current version of fdisk also defaults to 2048 start. It offers --compatibility=dos to restore the old default. Phil From jim.kinney at gmail.com Fri Sep 26 10:18:01 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 10:18:01 -0400 Subject: [ale] bash critical vulnerability - update NOW! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: https://access.redhat.com/node/1200223 RHEL and CentOS have complete patches now available in yum for all platforms except RHEL 4. Both CVE-2014-6271 and CVE-2014-7169 are fixed in RHEL5, 6 and 7. RHEL 4 is patched for CVE-2014-6271. The second patch changed the way bash handles environment variables that's transparent to the calling functions. Also a nice writeup of how selinux interacts with shellshock bug on a CGI script written in bash is here: http://danwalsh.livejournal.com/71122.html On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 2:41 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > http://seclists.org/oss-sec/2014/q3/650 > > nasty and remote accessible. > > -- > -- > James P. Kinney III > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. > It won't fatten the dog. > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > * > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdp at algoloma.com Fri Sep 26 10:49:21 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 10:49:21 -0400 Subject: [ale] Emerald City RoR study group starting tomorrow (Saturday) morning In-Reply-To: <1049601922.1411740353336.JavaMail.nobody@james3.pvt.meetup.com> References: <1049601922.1411740353336.JavaMail.nobody@james3.pvt.meetup.com> Message-ID: <54257CF1.4030506@algoloma.com> Want to learn Ruby on Rails programming - FOR FREE? Of course, you'll need to do the work, but I can attest to the quality of learning. They don't just teach Ruby and Rails, but also version control and TDD (test driven development) in the way that real companies use these techniques. They will help you install RoR onto your system too and follow best practices to support multiple development environments on the same OS. Don't just apt-get install it! If you are interested in the Rails study group, Emerald City, It is starting tomorrow morning. More details have been posted recently to its Google group: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/atlrug-emeraldcity This is spawn of the Atlanta Ruby meetup group. http://www.meetup.com/atlantaruby/ I plan to be there. Missing the 1st few meetings would be a mistake if you are serious. From jdp at algoloma.com Fri Sep 26 11:00:29 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 11:00:29 -0400 Subject: [ale] bash critical vulnerability - update NOW! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <54257F8D.1020003@algoloma.com> I had patched yesterday morning Ubuntu systems - just started a "check patch" and there is a new bash today for both Ubuntu 12.04 and 14.04 systems. Looks like we all need to patch again. Please wait about 10 minutes - you know - until I'm finished. ;) BTW - grub2 is also being updated today. nice. On 09/26/2014 10:18 AM, Jim Kinney wrote: > https://access.redhat.com/node/1200223 > > RHEL and CentOS have complete patches now available in yum for all > platforms except RHEL 4. Both CVE-2014-6271 and CVE-2014-7169 are fixed in > RHEL5, 6 and 7. RHEL 4 is patched for CVE-2014-6271. > > The second patch changed the way bash handles environment variables that's > transparent to the calling functions. > > Also a nice writeup of how selinux interacts with shellshock bug on a CGI > script written in bash is here: > http://danwalsh.livejournal.com/71122.html > > On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 2:41 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > >> http://seclists.org/oss-sec/2014/q3/650 >> >> nasty and remote accessible. >> >> -- From transam at VerySecureLinux.com Fri Sep 26 11:46:03 2014 From: transam at VerySecureLinux.com (Bob Toxen) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 11:46:03 -0400 Subject: [ale] bash critical vulnerability - update NOW! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140926154603.GE28741@verysecurelinux.com> Slackware has the patch (both versions) as fast as RHEL & CentOS! (I run Slackware on most Firewalls and some laptops.) Bob On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 10:18:01AM -0400, Jim Kinney wrote: > https://access.redhat.com/node/1200223 > > RHEL and CentOS have complete patches now available in yum for all > platforms except RHEL 4. Both CVE-2014-6271 and CVE-2014-7169 are fixed in > RHEL5, 6 and 7. RHEL 4 is patched for CVE-2014-6271. > > The second patch changed the way bash handles environment variables that's > transparent to the calling functions. > > Also a nice writeup of how selinux interacts with shellshock bug on a CGI > script written in bash is here: > http://danwalsh.livejournal.com/71122.html > > On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 2:41 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > > > http://seclists.org/oss-sec/2014/q3/650 > > > > nasty and remote accessible. > > > > -- > > -- > > James P. Kinney III > > > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain > > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. > > It won't fatten the dog. > > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > > > > *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > > * > > > > > > -- > -- > James P. Kinney III > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. > It won't fatten the dog. > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > * > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo From dad at datix.us Fri Sep 26 12:07:20 2014 From: dad at datix.us (David A. De Graaf) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 12:07:20 -0400 Subject: [ale] / 70% full In-Reply-To: <54243B5C.3080104@gmail.com> References: <542422D5.60103@gmail.com> <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EC6EAD@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> <54243B5C.3080104@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20140926160712.GB3181@datasus.dino.lan> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 11:57:16AM -0400, Paul Cartwright wrote: > On 09/25/2014 11:10 AM, Lightner, Jeff wrote: > > Usually I do a 'find / -name core" first to make sure there aren't any large core dumps files from aborted processes. Doing "file core" on any found will show you what it was that aborted and give the signal (usually sigsegv) that caused the abort. If it is fairly old I usually just delete it. Anything more recent I might delve into to figure out why it died. > > > > Also I do a 'find / -name "*.tar"' to see if there are any large tar bundles. Often running gzip or other compression on them will get back space. > > > > After that I usually look in /tmp and /var/tmp first to be sure there aren't old temporary files that can go away. > > > > Next I look to see if any logs have gotten unusually large. (Be sure NOT to delete a log file until you've verified it is not "open" by a process (losf will tell you if it is.) In such a case you can truncate but not delete (or you can stop the process, delete then restart the process). > > > > Doing the find Leam mentions is a good way to find large files. Just be sure you don't automatically delete anything until you know what it is. > > > > On our systems I separate out /tmp, /var, /usr, /opt and any application/database directories so as to avoid filling / itself. > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of leam hall > > Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 10:19 AM > > To: Paul Cartwright; Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts > > Subject: Re: [ale] / 70% full > > > > yum clean all > > > > du -k / | sort -n > /tmp/du.root > > tail -10 /tmp/du.root > > > > find / -size +4000 -exec ls -l {} \; > > > > > > ok, after umounting my extra partitions ( backups, etc)... the only core > files I found were all folders, under programs. found 1 tar file, > cleaned up /tmp & /var/tmp and got it down to 66% used... cleaned up > about 1GB.. still have 12 GB used. > > -- > Paul Cartwright > Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 > The journald system uses a prodigious amount of space for its binary data files; so much that it can take sometimes 10 minutes (!) merely to scan from beginning to end, using the special software that translates these files into something vaguely useful. There are several ways to limit the damage. Unfortunately, total removal of journald is not one of them; total removal makes a Fedora system unbootable. 'man journald.conf' tells of some ways to limit the allowed disk space by editing /etc/systemd/journald.conf. The method that works for me is to 'rm -rf /var/log/journal'. With that directory gone, journald uses a fallback of /run/log/journal, which is now located in a tmpfs. That is, it wastes precious RAM instead of disk space - but only for the current run. Since we seem to be rebooting much more frequently, that's not so much. ;-( Useful logging data is still passed to rsyslog, thence to /var/log/* . List of some recent Linux "improvements": - pulseaudio - gnome - tmpfs - grub2 - UEFI Secure Boot - Fedora installer - systemd - journald - ... We're circling the drain, folks. -- David A. De Graaf DATIX, Inc. Hendersonville, NC dad at datix.us www.datix.us From pbcartwright at gmail.com Fri Sep 26 12:49:58 2014 From: pbcartwright at gmail.com (Paul Cartwright) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 12:49:58 -0400 Subject: [ale] / 70% full In-Reply-To: <20140926160712.GB3181@datasus.dino.lan> References: <542422D5.60103@gmail.com> <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EC6EAD@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> <54243B5C.3080104@gmail.com> <20140926160712.GB3181@datasus.dino.lan> Message-ID: <54259936.2050403@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adrya.stembridge at gmail.com Fri Sep 26 13:21:56 2014 From: adrya.stembridge at gmail.com (Adrya Stembridge) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 13:21:56 -0400 Subject: [ale] New vulnerability in NSS, patches available now Message-ID: https://rhn.redhat.com/errata/RHSA-2014-1307.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adrya.stembridge at gmail.com Fri Sep 26 13:27:36 2014 From: adrya.stembridge at gmail.com (Adrya Stembridge) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 13:27:36 -0400 Subject: [ale] New vulnerability in NSS, patches available now In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Don't forget to restart services using nss after applying the patches. On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 1:21 PM, Adrya Stembridge < adrya.stembridge at gmail.com> wrote: > https://rhn.redhat.com/errata/RHSA-2014-1307.html > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From deepbsd at yahoo.com Fri Sep 26 14:21:47 2014 From: deepbsd at yahoo.com (David Jackson) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 11:21:47 -0700 Subject: [ale] Changing Linux Message-ID: <1411755707.60965.YahooMailNeo@web165006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Hi guys. So, not to start a holy war or anything, but how does the notion of systemd and journald startups reconcile with the long-standing UNIX tradition of simplicity and high reliability? Of using simple text files and daemons that can die or hang without bringing down the entire system? Mind you, I'm just coming back to Linux after a long lay off, so I've missed a lot of these discussions that you all probably have been having over these years. If Debian is using systemd now, and they're still as "free" and "traditional" as they always were, I must be missing quite a bit by parachuting into the middle of all this. BTW, I'm not finding systemd on my Slackware 14.1 system. Any thoughts? Dave -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JLightner at dsservices.com Fri Sep 26 14:54:37 2014 From: JLightner at dsservices.com (Lightner, Jeff) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 18:54:37 +0000 Subject: [ale] Changing Linux In-Reply-To: <1411755707.60965.YahooMailNeo@web165006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1411755707.60965.YahooMailNeo@web165006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EC7C22@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> I'd suggest you check the archives here for the past couple of weeks for the discussion. It basically boiled down to: 1) It's all a terrible idea designed to make us lose our minds. -OR- 1) It's all a great idea that in essence is actually simpler and more reliable. -AND- 2) Its being adopted by more and more distros so gnashing your teeth against it isn't going to help you as much as learning how to use it. Of course if that doesn't satisfy your hunger for complaining rather than adapting you can find the same kinds of discussion about it all over the web. -----Original Message----- From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of David Jackson Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 2:27 PM To: ale at ale.org Subject: [ale] Changing Linux Hi guys. So, not to start a holy war or anything, but how does the notion of systemd and journald startups reconcile with the long-standing UNIX tradition of simplicity and high reliability? Of using simple text files and daemons that can die or hang without bringing down the entire system? Mind you, I'm just coming back to Linux after a long lay off, so I've missed a lot of these discussions that you all probably have been having over these years. If Debian is using systemd now, and they're still as "free" and "traditional" as they always were, I must be missing quite a bit by parachuting into the middle of all this. BTW, I'm not finding systemd on my Slackware 14.1 system. Any thoughts? Dave -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo Athena(r), Created for the Cause(tm) Making a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Cancer __________________________________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged or confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you From jdp at algoloma.com Fri Sep 26 15:10:36 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 15:10:36 -0400 Subject: [ale] Changing Linux In-Reply-To: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EC7C22@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> References: <1411755707.60965.YahooMailNeo@web165006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EC7C22@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> Message-ID: <5425BA2C.20707@algoloma.com> On 09/26/2014 02:54 PM, Lightner, Jeff wrote: > I'd suggest you check the archives here for the past couple of weeks for the discussion. > > It basically boiled down to: > 1) It's all a terrible idea designed to make us lose our minds. > -OR- > 1) It's all a great idea that in essence is actually simpler and more reliable. > -AND- > 2) Its being adopted by more and more distros so gnashing your teeth against it isn't going to help you as much as learning how to use it. > > Of course if that doesn't satisfy your hunger for complaining rather than adapting you can find the same kinds of discussion about it all over the web. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of David Jackson > Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 2:27 PM > To: ale at ale.org > Subject: [ale] Changing Linux > > Hi guys. > > So, not to start a holy war or anything, but how does the notion of systemd and journald startups reconcile with the long-standing UNIX tradition of simplicity and high reliability? Of using simple text files and daemons that can die or hang without bringing down the entire system? > > > Mind you, I'm just coming back to Linux after a long lay off, so I've missed a lot of these discussions that you all probably have been having over these years. If Debian is using systemd now, and they're still as "free" and "traditional" as they always were, I must be missing quite a bit by parachuting into the middle of all this. BTW, I'm not finding systemd on my Slackware 14.1 system. > > > Any thoughts? Regardless of everything else - seems the commands will be at least 1 word longer for no extra capability. Sometimes much longer. On that alone, it sucks. ;) From jim.kinney at gmail.com Fri Sep 26 15:10:07 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 15:10:07 -0400 Subject: [ale] Changing Linux In-Reply-To: <1411755707.60965.YahooMailNeo@web165006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1411755707.60965.YahooMailNeo@web165006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 2:21 PM, David Jackson wrote: > Hi guys. > > So, not to start a holy war or anything, but how does the notion of > systemd and journald startups reconcile with the long-standing UNIX > tradition of simplicity and high reliability? Of using simple text files > and daemons that can die or hang without bringing down the entire system? > This is not your fathers unix :-) That would be a near unholy war, actually. Things are changing. The next ALE meeting (Oct 16) will be discussing the systemd (good, bad and ugly) process. Actually, systemd replaces init. The shell stuff is still around, just very different. > > > Mind you, I'm just coming back to Linux after a long lay off, so I've > missed a lot of these discussions that you all probably have been having > over these years. If Debian is using systemd now, and they're still as > "free" and "traditional" as they always were, I must be missing quite a bit > by parachuting into the middle of all this. BTW, I'm not finding systemd > on my Slackware 14.1 system. > > Slackware just transitioned to elf binary format from a.out last week so don't expect systemd until around 2112 :-) Had to poke Slackware. It's been since v8 that I've run Slackware for anything other than a base distro install test. > > Any thoughts? > I look forward to a nice stout beer after work. I think that one often. > > Dave > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140926/78f7a3fa/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ted-lists at xy0.org Fri Sep 26 15:27:16 2014 From: ted-lists at xy0.org (Ted W) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 15:27:16 -0400 Subject: [ale] Changing Linux In-Reply-To: <1411755707.60965.YahooMailNeo@web165006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1411755707.60965.YahooMailNeo@web165006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5425BE14.90209@xy0.org> On 09/26/14 14:21, David Jackson wrote: > Hi guys. > > So, not to start a holy war or anything, but how does the notion of systemd and journald startups reconcile with the long-standing UNIX tradition of simplicity and high reliability? Of using simple text files and daemons that can die or hang without bringing down the entire system? > > > Mind you, I'm just coming back to Linux after a long lay off, so I've missed a lot of these discussions that you all probably have been having over these years. If Debian is using systemd now, and they're still as "free" and "traditional" as they always were, I must be missing quite a bit by parachuting into the middle of all this. BTW, I'm not finding systemd on my Slackware 14.1 system. > > > Any thoughts? > > Dave > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > My biggest gripe about it would have to be it's incompatibility with the other Unix clones out there. Systemd is very much a Linux thing. It does not, and probably will not, run on any of the BSDs. There has been some work from OpenBSD to get some form of it working but Theo came out on the mailing list the other day and basically stated that there were no plans to officially support such an implementation now or in to the forseeable future. Since I administer both Linux and BSD systems this all means that I now have to get familiar with two different init systems with no option to run Systemd on all of them, even if I do end up liking it better which, from what I've read so far seems I may end up doing once the political cat fight around it calms down somewhat. -- Ted W. From leamhall at gmail.com Fri Sep 26 15:36:01 2014 From: leamhall at gmail.com (leam hall) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 15:36:01 -0400 Subject: [ale] Changing Linux In-Reply-To: <5425BE14.90209@xy0.org> References: <1411755707.60965.YahooMailNeo@web165006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <5425BE14.90209@xy0.org> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:27 PM, Ted W wrote: > Since I administer both Linux and BSD systems this all means that I now have > to get familiar with two different init systems with no option to run > Systemd on all of them, even if I do end up liking it better which, from > what I've read so far seems I may end up doing once the political cat fight > around it calms down somewhat. This is my main frustration. Besides it just being a bad implementation of a not too bad idea. I did look at CoreOS and there is a use for something like systemd there. But really, by the time you're on something like Core should we expect a lot of the *nix things to work the same? Times are changing, I agree. However, I'm not sure it's a change for the better. Leam -- Mind on a Mission From JLightner at dsservices.com Fri Sep 26 15:41:04 2014 From: JLightner at dsservices.com (Lightner, Jeff) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 19:41:04 +0000 Subject: [ale] Changing Linux In-Reply-To: <5425BE14.90209@xy0.org> References: <1411755707.60965.YahooMailNeo@web165006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <5425BE14.90209@xy0.org> Message-ID: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EC7D0E@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> Having worked on multiple variants of UNIX (including BSD) and Linux what I can say is NOTHING is the same "everywhere" even if it is all "mostly" the same. There was similar gnashing of teeth when many UNIX variants started abandoning Berkley (the basis for BSD) in favor of System V. The most ungodly setup for that was Solaris where you had paths to BOTH System V utilities AND their Berkley counterparts wherein the flags were often quite different. Almost none of the UNIX variants used the same administration tools nor did they necessarily approach things like disks the same way. Solaris was big on Solstice Disk Suite (what an abomination) whereas HP-UX used LVM and both eventually allowed and encouraged use of Veritas Volume Manager (except possibly for boot/root). Linux is a different animal from UNIX even though there are lots of similarities. Pretending it always did things the "UNIX" way is specious at best. One only has to look at top load averages exceeding 1 x # of CPUs to understand that. I never met a UNIX system that wasn't starting to have performance issues at that level and all but locked up at 2 x # of CPUs but on Linux I've seen systems swimming along fine with load averages of 35 or higher for 2 CPU cores. -----Original Message----- From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Ted W Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 3:28 PM To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [ale] Changing Linux On 09/26/14 14:21, David Jackson wrote: > Hi guys. > > So, not to start a holy war or anything, but how does the notion of systemd and journald startups reconcile with the long-standing UNIX tradition of simplicity and high reliability? Of using simple text files and daemons that can die or hang without bringing down the entire system? > > > Mind you, I'm just coming back to Linux after a long lay off, so I've missed a lot of these discussions that you all probably have been having over these years. If Debian is using systemd now, and they're still as "free" and "traditional" as they always were, I must be missing quite a bit by parachuting into the middle of all this. BTW, I'm not finding systemd on my Slackware 14.1 system. > > > Any thoughts? > > Dave > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was > scrubbed... > URL: > hment.html> _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > My biggest gripe about it would have to be it's incompatibility with the other Unix clones out there. Systemd is very much a Linux thing. It does not, and probably will not, run on any of the BSDs. There has been some work from OpenBSD to get some form of it working but Theo came out on the mailing list the other day and basically stated that there were no plans to officially support such an implementation now or in to the forseeable future. Since I administer both Linux and BSD systems this all means that I now have to get familiar with two different init systems with no option to run Systemd on all of them, even if I do end up liking it better which, from what I've read so far seems I may end up doing once the political cat fight around it calms down somewhat. -- Ted W. _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo Athena(r), Created for the Cause(tm) Making a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Cancer __________________________________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged or confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you From householdwords at gmail.com Fri Sep 26 16:11:11 2014 From: householdwords at gmail.com (H P Ladds) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 16:11:11 -0400 Subject: [ale] Changing Linux In-Reply-To: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EC7C22@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> References: <1411755707.60965.YahooMailNeo@web165006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EC7C22@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 2:54 PM, Lightner, Jeff wrote: > I'd suggest you check the archives here for the past couple of weeks for > the discussion. > > It basically boiled down to: > 1) It's all a terrible idea designed to make us lose our minds. > -OR- > 1) It's all a great idea that in essence is actually simpler and more > reliable. > -AND- > 2) Its being adopted by more and more distros so gnashing your teeth > against it isn't going to help you as much as learning how to use it. > Nonsense! leave Grub alone :) > > Of course if that doesn't satisfy your hunger for complaining rather than > adapting you can find the same kinds of discussion about it all over the > web. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of David > Jackson > Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 2:27 PM > To: ale at ale.org > Subject: [ale] Changing Linux > > Hi guys. > > So, not to start a holy war or anything, but how does the notion of > systemd and journald startups reconcile with the long-standing UNIX > tradition of simplicity and high reliability? Of using simple text files > and daemons that can die or hang without bringing down the entire system? > > > Mind you, I'm just coming back to Linux after a long lay off, so I've > missed a lot of these discussions that you all probably have been having > over these years. If Debian is using systemd now, and they're still as > "free" and "traditional" as they always were, I must be missing quite a bit > by parachuting into the middle of all this. BTW, I'm not finding systemd > on my Slackware 14.1 system. > > > Any thoughts? > > Dave > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140926/78f7a3fa/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > Athena(r), Created for the Cause(tm) > Making a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Cancer > > __________________________________________________________ > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged > > or confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended > > recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, > > copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information > > is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic > > transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that > > you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dad at datix.us Fri Sep 26 16:58:46 2014 From: dad at datix.us (David A. De Graaf) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 16:58:46 -0400 Subject: [ale] Changing Linux In-Reply-To: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EC7D0E@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> References: <1411755707.60965.YahooMailNeo@web165006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <5425BE14.90209@xy0.org> <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EC7D0E@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> Message-ID: <20140926205845.GB22803@datasus.dino.lan> On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 07:41:04PM +0000, Lightner, Jeff wrote: > Having worked on multiple variants of UNIX (including BSD) and Linux what I can say is NOTHING is the same "everywhere" even if it is all "mostly" the same. There was similar gnashing of teeth when many UNIX variants started abandoning Berkley (the basis for BSD) in favor of System V. The most ungodly setup for that was Solaris where you had paths to BOTH System V utilities AND their Berkley counterparts wherein the flags were often quite different. Almost none of the UNIX variants used the same administration tools nor did they necessarily approach things like disks the same way. Solaris was big on Solstice Disk Suite (what an abomination) whereas HP-UX used LVM and both eventually allowed and encouraged use of Veritas Volume Manager (except possibly for boot/root). > > Linux is a different animal from UNIX even though there are lots of similarities. Pretending it always did things the "UNIX" way is specious at best. One only has to look at top load averages exceeding 1 x # of CPUs to understand that. I never met a UNIX system that wasn't starting to have performance issues at that level and all but locked up at 2 x # of CPUs but on Linux I've seen systems swimming along fine with load averages of 35 or higher for 2 CPU cores. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Ted W > Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 3:28 PM > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts > Subject: Re: [ale] Changing Linux > > On 09/26/14 14:21, David Jackson wrote: > > Hi guys. > > > > So, not to start a holy war or anything, but how does the notion of systemd and journald startups reconcile with the long-standing UNIX tradition of simplicity and high reliability? Of using simple text files and daemons that can die or hang without bringing down the entire system? > > > > > > Mind you, I'm just coming back to Linux after a long lay off, so I've missed a lot of these discussions that you all probably have been having over these years. If Debian is using systemd now, and they're still as "free" and "traditional" as they always were, I must be missing quite a bit by parachuting into the middle of all this. BTW, I'm not finding systemd on my Slackware 14.1 system. > > > > > > Any thoughts? > > > > Dave > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was > > scrubbed... > > URL: > > > hment.html> _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > My biggest gripe about it would have to be it's incompatibility with the other Unix clones out there. Systemd is very much a Linux thing. It does not, and probably will not, run on any of the BSDs. There has been some work from OpenBSD to get some form of it working but Theo came out on the mailing list the other day and basically stated that there were no plans to officially support such an implementation now or in to the forseeable future. > > Since I administer both Linux and BSD systems this all means that I now have to get familiar with two different init systems with no option to run Systemd on all of them, even if I do end up liking it better which, from what I've read so far seems I may end up doing once the political cat fight around it calms down somewhat. > > -- > Ted W. > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > Athena(r), Created for the Cause(tm) > Making a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Cancer > > __________________________________________________________ > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged > > or confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended > > recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, > > copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information > > is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic > > transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that > > you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo I have a modest proposal: Before we attempt to resolve the really important issues of systemd, journald, grub2, etc., let us first reach unanimity on the propriety of top-posting vs. bottom-posting. This message would be the perfect candidate to analyze the pros and cons. -- David A. De Graaf DATIX, Inc. Hendersonville, NC dad at datix.us www.datix.us From JLightner at dsservices.com Fri Sep 26 17:20:11 2014 From: JLightner at dsservices.com (Lightner, Jeff) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 21:20:11 +0000 Subject: [ale] Changing Linux In-Reply-To: <20140926205845.GB22803@datasus.dino.lan> References: <1411755707.60965.YahooMailNeo@web165006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <5425BE14.90209@xy0.org> <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EC7D0E@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> <20140926205845.GB22803@datasus.dino.lan> Message-ID: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EC7E43@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> Everyone knows only communists do bottom posting and don't trim messages. :p -----Original Message----- From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of David A. De Graaf Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 5:00 PM To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [ale] Changing Linux I have a modest proposal: Before we attempt to resolve the really important issues of systemd, journald, grub2, etc., let us first reach unanimity on the propriety of top-posting vs. bottom-posting. This message would be the perfect candidate to analyze the pros and cons. -- David A. De Graaf DATIX, Inc. Hendersonville, NC dad at datix.us www.datix.us _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo Athena(r), Created for the Cause(tm) Making a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Cancer __________________________________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged or confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you From jim.kinney at gmail.com Fri Sep 26 17:53:25 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 17:53:25 -0400 Subject: [ale] Changing Linux In-Reply-To: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EC7E43@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> References: <1411755707.60965.YahooMailNeo@web165006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <5425BE14.90209@xy0.org> <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EC7D0E@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> <20140926205845.GB22803@datasus.dino.lan> <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EC7E43@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> Message-ID: Y On Sep 26, 2014 5:22 PM, "Lightner, Jeff" wrot E > > Everyone knows only communists do bottom posting and don't trim P messages. :p > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of David A. De Graaf > Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 5:00 PM > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts > Subject: Re: [ale] Changing Linux > > > I have a modest proposal: > > Before we attempt to resolve the really important issues of systemd, journald, grub2, etc., let us first reach unanimity on the propriety of top-posting vs. bottom-posting. > > This message would be the perfect candidate to analyze the pros and cons. > > -- > David A. De Graaf DATIX, Inc. Hendersonville, NC > dad at datix.us www.datix.us > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > Athena(r), Created for the Cause(tm) > Making a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Cancer > > __________________________________________________________ > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged > > or confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended > > recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, > > copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information > > is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic > > transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that > > you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pbcartwright at gmail.com Fri Sep 26 20:43:28 2014 From: pbcartwright at gmail.com (Paul Cartwright) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 20:43:28 -0400 Subject: [ale] Changing Linux In-Reply-To: <20140926205845.GB22803@datasus.dino.lan> References: <1411755707.60965.YahooMailNeo@web165006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <5425BE14.90209@xy0.org> <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EC7D0E@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> <20140926205845.GB22803@datasus.dino.lan> Message-ID: <54260830.2060607@gmail.com> On 09/26/2014 04:58 PM, David A. De Graaf wrote: > I have a modest proposal: > > Before we attempt to resolve the really important issues of > systemd, journald, grub2, etc., let us first reach unanimity > on the propriety of top-posting vs. bottom-posting. what about trimming posts... 500 lines of CR at P, and 3 lines of text that actually do little, except complain.. -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 From bugyatl at gmail.com Sat Sep 27 11:33:59 2014 From: bugyatl at gmail.com (Boris Borisov) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 15:33:59 +0000 Subject: [ale] Changing Linux In-Reply-To: <54260830.2060607@gmail.com> References: <1411755707.60965.YahooMailNeo@web165006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <5425BE14.90209@xy0.org> <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EC7D0E@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> <20140926205845.GB22803@datasus.dino.lan> <54260830.2060607@gmail.com> Message-ID: Linux is always known for having a choice what to use different editors different WMs and Desktops or just plain console. Can they keep both init systems together. Not everybody runs farms of servers. I remember Mandriva ( and Debian I believe ) back in days was offering script to convert your init system to single init file if you need to. On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 12:43 AM, Paul Cartwright wrote: > On 09/26/2014 04:58 PM, David A. De Graaf wrote: > > I have a modest proposal: > > > > Before we attempt to resolve the really important issues of > > systemd, journald, grub2, etc., let us first reach unanimity > > on the propriety of top-posting vs. bottom-posting. > what about trimming posts... 500 lines of CR at P, and 3 lines of text that > actually do little, except complain.. > > -- > Paul Cartwright > Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From oloryn at benshome.net Sat Sep 27 15:41:57 2014 From: oloryn at benshome.net (Ben Coleman) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 15:41:57 -0400 Subject: [ale] Changing Linux In-Reply-To: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EC7E43@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> References: <1411755707.60965.YahooMailNeo@web165006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <5425BE14.90209@xy0.org> <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EC7D0E@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> <20140926205845.GB22803@datasus.dino.lan> <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EC7E43@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> Message-ID: <54271305.6000102@benshome.net> On 9/26/2014 17:20, Lightner, Jeff wrote: > Everyone knows only communists do bottom posting and don't trim messages. :p Hogwash! Ben -- Ben Coleman oloryn at benshome.net | For the wise man, doing right trumps http://oloryn.benshome.net/ | looking right. For the fool, looking Amateur Radio NJ8J | right trumps doing right. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 196 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From robert.l.harris at gmail.com Sat Sep 27 16:22:02 2014 From: robert.l.harris at gmail.com (Robert L. Harris) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 14:22:02 -0600 Subject: [ale] rsync patterns? Message-ID: Anyone have good rsync foo? I have a directory, /data, with a bunch of subs in it. The names of the subs start with a letter ( upper or lower ) or a number: 12512 11001 19262 JA215 JTFAZ IC001 ( Etc ). In these directories are a bunch of files and directories. I want to get ONLY the directories starting with numbers and then some of the files ( files which contain "get-me", "dontignore" ). I currently have a long list of: --exclude="J*/" --exclude="I*/" --include="*/" --include="*get-me*" --include="*dontignore*" --exclude="*" Anyone have a better setup? I tried: --exclude="[[:alpha:]]*/" --include="[[:digit:]]*/" --include="*get-me*" --include="*dontignore*" --exclude="*" but rsync doesn't seem to like this marking. Robert -- :wq! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert L. Harris DISCLAIMER: These are MY OPINIONS With Dreams To Be A King, ALONE. I speak for First One Should Be A Man no-one else. - Manowar -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wolf.halton at gmail.com Sun Sep 28 09:14:05 2014 From: wolf.halton at gmail.com (Wolf Halton) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 09:14:05 -0400 Subject: [ale] Changing Linux In-Reply-To: <54271305.6000102@benshome.net> References: <1411755707.60965.YahooMailNeo@web165006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <5425BE14.90209@xy0.org> <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EC7D0E@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> <20140926205845.GB22803@datasus.dino.lan> <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EC7E43@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> <54271305.6000102@benshome.net> Message-ID: Gmail wants you to top-post. It is listening. One wouldn't want to make it angry. Wolf Halton -- This Apt Has Super Cow Powers - http://sourcefreedom.com Security in the Cloud - http://AtlantaCloudTech.com On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 3:41 PM, Ben Coleman wrote: > On 9/26/2014 17:20, Lightner, Jeff wrote: > > Everyone knows only communists do bottom posting and don't trim > messages. :p > > Hogwash! > > Ben > -- > Ben Coleman oloryn at benshome.net | For the wise man, doing right trumps > http://oloryn.benshome.net/ | looking right. For the fool, looking > Amateur Radio NJ8J | right trumps doing right. > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: signature.asc > Type: application/pgp-signature > Size: 196 bytes > Desc: OpenPGP digital signature > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140927/022aed0a/attachment.sig > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wolf.halton at gmail.com Sun Sep 28 09:18:10 2014 From: wolf.halton at gmail.com (Wolf Halton) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 09:18:10 -0400 Subject: [ale] returned to the list... In-Reply-To: References: <1411680125.66424.YahooMailNeo@web165001.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <5c89b57d-b8d7-4ad1-b088-2022f6dbee48@email.android.com> <5424D8F2.8060805@gmail.com> Message-ID: Ubuntu Studio - Stable, minimalist desktop and runs on my old laptop. Debian for servers - doesn't have the forked OpenSSH that RHEL has. Wolf Halton -- This Apt Has Super Cow Powers - http://sourcefreedom.com Security in the Cloud - http://AtlantaCloudTech.com On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 8:02 AM, Brian Stanaland wrote: > OpenSUSE. Because SLES is the preferred OS for the systems we make at SGI. > > --Brian > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 11:09 PM, Scott Castaline > wrote: > > > C&S!!! > > > > > > On 09/25/2014 08:45 PM, Boris Borisov wrote: > > > >> Ed > >> On Sep 25, 2014 8:45 PM, "Pete Hardie" wrote: > >> > >> vi or emacs? > >>> > >>> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 7:13 PM, Michael Trausch > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> I'll jump in, and true to recent form, right back out. :) > >>>> > >>>> Fedora and CentOS, depending on the reason for the system. Why? > Because > >>>> I > >>>> can very easily support dozens and dozens of the boxes while lifting > >>>> very > >>>> few fingers. It's not ideal---and believe you me, no distribution is, > >>>> > >>> yet. > >>> > >>>> The closer I get to end-users, the more I realize the truth that it > >>>> isn't > >>>> about the system. It isn't even about the support. It is about the > >>>> > >>> ability > >>> > >>>> to provide SUPERIOR support with minimum resources. An ideal > >>>> distribution > >>>> would cover that on all consumer visible fronts. We posixheads are > great > >>>> great great with the stuff the end user doesn't see or the PHB doesn't > >>>> support. We need to become better about the other area in the pool... > >>>> > >>>> Anyway I am throwing away today's soapbox. Back to your regular > >>>> > >>> chatter.... > >>> > >>>> Sent from my iPad > >>>> > >>>> On Sep 25, 2014, at 6:49 PM, Jim Kinney > wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Welcome back! > >>>>> > >>>>> Let's start a flame war with what distro you most recently installed > >>>>> > >>>> and > >>> > >>>> why didn't you use ? > >>>> > >>>>> :-) > >>>>> > >>>>> On September 25, 2014 5:22:05 PM EDT, David Jackson < > >>>>>> > >>>>> deepbsd at yahoo.com> > >>> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> It's been a long time since I've been on the list (maybe 8-9 years?), > >>>>>> and I thought I'd say hi. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I set up some Linux boxes here at home and am getting in the swing > of > >>>>>> it all once again I'm sure I'll have questions, because prior to > >>>>>> recently, the last distro I installed was Slackware 10.1! :-) My > how > >>>>>> things have changed on the distro front. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Well, I'll sit back and watch for a while and raise my hand when I > >>>>>> break something. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Good to be back! > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Dave > >>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>>>>> URL: > >>>>>> < > >>>>>> > >>>>> http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140925/ > >>> da548cff/attachment.html > >>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> Ale mailing list > >>>>>> Ale at ale.org > >>>>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > >>>>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > >>>>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > >>>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Jim Kinney > >>>>> Linux Systems Analyst > >>>>> Physicist/Brewer > >>>>> http://jimkinney.us > >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>>>> URL: < > >>>>> > >>>> http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140925/ > >>> a82a3e4f/attachment.html > >>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Ale mailing list > >>>>> Ale at ale.org > >>>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > >>>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > >>>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > >>>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Ale mailing list > >>>> Ale at ale.org > >>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > >>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > >>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Pete Hardie > >>> -------- > >>> Better Living Through Bitmaps > >>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>> URL: < > >>> http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140925/ > >>> 06cc359d/attachment.html > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Ale mailing list > >>> Ale at ale.org > >>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > >>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > >>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > >>> > >>> -------------- next part -------------- > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >> URL: >> 20140925/469775dc/attachment.html> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Ale mailing list > >> Ale at ale.org > >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > >> > > > > > > -- > > Sent from my Fedora Linux PC to you, NSA, the CIA, FBI, HSA and God only > > knows who else?! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > > > -- > "Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new." -Albert > Einstein > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140926/018b1942/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Sun Sep 28 09:28:52 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 09:28:52 -0400 Subject: [ale] Changing Linux In-Reply-To: References: <1411755707.60965.YahooMailNeo@web165006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <5425BE14.90209@xy0.org> <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EC7D0E@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> <20140926205845.GB22803@datasus.dino.lan> <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EC7E43@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> <54271305.6000102@benshome.net> Message-ID: Thanks to changing methods of email and cheap storage, top posting now makes more sense. When storage was very costly, i.e., pre-Internet days, bottom posting preserved the thread because the prior messages were deleted. Now with cheap storage, all emails can be kept in thread order and top posting makes info retrieval easier. The world has changed. See bottom for more. On Sep 28, 2014 9:16 AM, "Wolf Halton" wrote: > > Gmail wants you to top-post. > It is listening. One wouldn't want to make it angry. > > Wolf Halton > > -- > This Apt Has Super Cow Powers - http://sourcefreedom.com > Security in the Cloud - http://AtlantaCloudTech.com > > > > On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 3:41 PM, Ben Coleman wrote: > > > On 9/26/2014 17:20, Lightner, Jeff wrote: > > > Everyone knows only communists do bottom posting and don't trim > > messages. :p > > > > Hogwash! > > > > Ben > > -- > > Ben Coleman oloryn at benshome.net | For the wise man, doing right trumps > > http://oloryn.benshome.net/ | looking right. For the fool, looking > > Amateur Radio NJ8J | right trumps doing right. > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > > Name: signature.asc > > Type: application/pgp-signature > > Size: 196 bytes > > Desc: OpenPGP digital signature > > URL: < > > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140927/022aed0a/attachment.sig > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140928/c48755af/attachment.html > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo Nope. Nothing here. Made you look. Wasn't that fun? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Sun Sep 28 09:32:20 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 09:32:20 -0400 Subject: [ale] returned to the list... In-Reply-To: References: <1411680125.66424.YahooMailNeo@web165001.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <5c89b57d-b8d7-4ad1-b088-2022f6dbee48@email.android.com> <5424D8F2.8060805@gmail.com> Message-ID: That openssh fork was folded back in (I think). It merged pam into ssh to allow multiple authentication tools on the back end. That allowed things like searching LDAP for both password and ssh pubkey. On Sep 28, 2014 9:20 AM, "Wolf Halton" wrote: > Ubuntu Studio - Stable, minimalist desktop and runs on my old laptop. > Debian for servers - doesn't have the forked OpenSSH that RHEL has. > > Wolf Halton > > -- > This Apt Has Super Cow Powers - http://sourcefreedom.com > Security in the Cloud - http://AtlantaCloudTech.com > > > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 8:02 AM, Brian Stanaland > wrote: > > > OpenSUSE. Because SLES is the preferred OS for the systems we make at > SGI. > > > > --Brian > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 11:09 PM, Scott Castaline > > wrote: > > > > > C&S!!! > > > > > > > > > On 09/25/2014 08:45 PM, Boris Borisov wrote: > > > > > >> Ed > > >> On Sep 25, 2014 8:45 PM, "Pete Hardie" wrote: > > >> > > >> vi or emacs? > > >>> > > >>> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 7:13 PM, Michael Trausch > > >>> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> I'll jump in, and true to recent form, right back out. :) > > >>>> > > >>>> Fedora and CentOS, depending on the reason for the system. Why? > > Because > > >>>> I > > >>>> can very easily support dozens and dozens of the boxes while lifting > > >>>> very > > >>>> few fingers. It's not ideal---and believe you me, no distribution > is, > > >>>> > > >>> yet. > > >>> > > >>>> The closer I get to end-users, the more I realize the truth that it > > >>>> isn't > > >>>> about the system. It isn't even about the support. It is about the > > >>>> > > >>> ability > > >>> > > >>>> to provide SUPERIOR support with minimum resources. An ideal > > >>>> distribution > > >>>> would cover that on all consumer visible fronts. We posixheads are > > great > > >>>> great great with the stuff the end user doesn't see or the PHB > doesn't > > >>>> support. We need to become better about the other area in the > pool... > > >>>> > > >>>> Anyway I am throwing away today's soapbox. Back to your regular > > >>>> > > >>> chatter.... > > >>> > > >>>> Sent from my iPad > > >>>> > > >>>> On Sep 25, 2014, at 6:49 PM, Jim Kinney > > wrote: > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Welcome back! > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Let's start a flame war with what distro you most recently > installed > > >>>>> > > >>>> and > > >>> > > >>>> why didn't you use ? > > >>>> > > >>>>> :-) > > >>>>> > > >>>>> On September 25, 2014 5:22:05 PM EDT, David Jackson < > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> deepbsd at yahoo.com> > > >>> > > >>>> wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>>> It's been a long time since I've been on the list (maybe 8-9 > years?), > > >>>>>> and I thought I'd say hi. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> I set up some Linux boxes here at home and am getting in the swing > > of > > >>>>>> it all once again I'm sure I'll have questions, because prior to > > >>>>>> recently, the last distro I installed was Slackware 10.1! :-) My > > how > > >>>>>> things have changed on the distro front. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Well, I'll sit back and watch for a while and raise my hand when I > > >>>>>> break something. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Good to be back! > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Dave > > >>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- > > >>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > >>>>>> URL: > > >>>>>> < > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140925/ > > >>> da548cff/attachment.html > > >>> > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>> Ale mailing list > > >>>>>> Ale at ale.org > > >>>>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > >>>>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > >>>>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> -- > > >>>>> Jim Kinney > > >>>>> Linux Systems Analyst > > >>>>> Physicist/Brewer > > >>>>> http://jimkinney.us > > >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- > > >>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > >>>>> URL: < > > >>>>> > > >>>> http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140925/ > > >>> a82a3e4f/attachment.html > > >>> > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>>> Ale mailing list > > >>>>> Ale at ale.org > > >>>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > >>>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > >>>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > >>>>> > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>> Ale mailing list > > >>>> Ale at ale.org > > >>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > >>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > >>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> Pete Hardie > > >>> -------- > > >>> Better Living Through Bitmaps > > >>> -------------- next part -------------- > > >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > >>> URL: < > > >>> http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140925/ > > >>> 06cc359d/attachment.html > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> Ale mailing list > > >>> Ale at ale.org > > >>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > >>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > >>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > >>> > > >>> -------------- next part -------------- > > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > >> URL: > >> 20140925/469775dc/attachment.html> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Ale mailing list > > >> Ale at ale.org > > >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > >> > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Sent from my Fedora Linux PC to you, NSA, the CIA, FBI, HSA and God > only > > > knows who else?! > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Ale mailing list > > > Ale at ale.org > > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > "Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new." > -Albert > > Einstein > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > > > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140926/018b1942/attachment.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140928/e0279a63/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pbcartwright at gmail.com Sun Sep 28 10:01:35 2014 From: pbcartwright at gmail.com (Paul Cartwright) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 10:01:35 -0400 Subject: [ale] Changing Linux In-Reply-To: References: <1411755707.60965.YahooMailNeo@web165006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <5425BE14.90209@xy0.org> <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EC7D0E@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> <20140926205845.GB22803@datasus.dino.lan> <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EC7E43@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> <54271305.6000102@benshome.net> Message-ID: <542814BF.7040607@gmail.com> see below > Nope. Nothing here. Made you look. Wasn't that fun? no, see above.. I have gmail & use thunderbird, I can abidexterously top/bottom post at will.. -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 From wolf.halton at gmail.com Sun Sep 28 16:14:30 2014 From: wolf.halton at gmail.com (Wolf Halton) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 16:14:30 -0400 Subject: [ale] returned to the list... In-Reply-To: References: <1411680125.66424.YahooMailNeo@web165001.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <5c89b57d-b8d7-4ad1-b088-2022f6dbee48@email.android.com> <5424D8F2.8060805@gmail.com> Message-ID: I am still seeing it as a vulnerability (false positive) on qualys reports. At least on Rhel 5.x. Wolf Halton -- This Apt Has Super Cow Powers - http://sourcefreedom.com Security in the Cloud - http://AtlantaCloudTech.com On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 9:32 AM, Jim Kinney wrote: > That openssh fork was folded back in (I think). It merged pam into ssh to > allow multiple authentication tools on the back end. That allowed things > like searching LDAP for both password and ssh pubkey. > On Sep 28, 2014 9:20 AM, "Wolf Halton" wrote: > > > Ubuntu Studio - Stable, minimalist desktop and runs on my old laptop. > > Debian for servers - doesn't have the forked OpenSSH that RHEL has. > > > > Wolf Halton > > > > -- > > This Apt Has Super Cow Powers - http://sourcefreedom.com > > Security in the Cloud - http://AtlantaCloudTech.com > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 8:02 AM, Brian Stanaland > > wrote: > > > > > OpenSUSE. Because SLES is the preferred OS for the systems we make at > > SGI. > > > > > > --Brian > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 11:09 PM, Scott Castaline > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > C&S!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > On 09/25/2014 08:45 PM, Boris Borisov wrote: > > > > > > > >> Ed > > > >> On Sep 25, 2014 8:45 PM, "Pete Hardie" > wrote: > > > >> > > > >> vi or emacs? > > > >>> > > > >>> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 7:13 PM, Michael Trausch > > > >>> wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>> I'll jump in, and true to recent form, right back out. :) > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Fedora and CentOS, depending on the reason for the system. Why? > > > Because > > > >>>> I > > > >>>> can very easily support dozens and dozens of the boxes while > lifting > > > >>>> very > > > >>>> few fingers. It's not ideal---and believe you me, no distribution > > is, > > > >>>> > > > >>> yet. > > > >>> > > > >>>> The closer I get to end-users, the more I realize the truth that > it > > > >>>> isn't > > > >>>> about the system. It isn't even about the support. It is about the > > > >>>> > > > >>> ability > > > >>> > > > >>>> to provide SUPERIOR support with minimum resources. An ideal > > > >>>> distribution > > > >>>> would cover that on all consumer visible fronts. We posixheads are > > > great > > > >>>> great great with the stuff the end user doesn't see or the PHB > > doesn't > > > >>>> support. We need to become better about the other area in the > > pool... > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Anyway I am throwing away today's soapbox. Back to your regular > > > >>>> > > > >>> chatter.... > > > >>> > > > >>>> Sent from my iPad > > > >>>> > > > >>>> On Sep 25, 2014, at 6:49 PM, Jim Kinney > > > wrote: > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Welcome back! > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Let's start a flame war with what distro you most recently > > installed > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> and > > > >>> > > > >>>> why didn't you use ? > > > >>>> > > > >>>>> :-) > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> On September 25, 2014 5:22:05 PM EDT, David Jackson < > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>> deepbsd at yahoo.com> > > > >>> > > > >>>> wrote: > > > >>>> > > > >>>>> It's been a long time since I've been on the list (maybe 8-9 > > years?), > > > >>>>>> and I thought I'd say hi. > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> I set up some Linux boxes here at home and am getting in the > swing > > > of > > > >>>>>> it all once again I'm sure I'll have questions, because prior > to > > > >>>>>> recently, the last distro I installed was Slackware 10.1! :-) > My > > > how > > > >>>>>> things have changed on the distro front. > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> Well, I'll sit back and watch for a while and raise my hand > when I > > > >>>>>> break something. > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> Good to be back! > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> Dave > > > >>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- > > > >>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > >>>>>> URL: > > > >>>>>> < > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>> http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140925/ > > > >>> da548cff/attachment.html > > > >>> > > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > > >>>>>> Ale mailing list > > > >>>>>> Ale at ale.org > > > >>>>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > > >>>>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > > >>>>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>> -- > > > >>>>> Jim Kinney > > > >>>>> Linux Systems Analyst > > > >>>>> Physicist/Brewer > > > >>>>> http://jimkinney.us > > > >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- > > > >>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > >>>>> URL: < > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140925/ > > > >>> a82a3e4f/attachment.html > > > >>> > > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > > >>>>> Ale mailing list > > > >>>>> Ale at ale.org > > > >>>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > > >>>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > > >>>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > > >>>> Ale mailing list > > > >>>> Ale at ale.org > > > >>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > > >>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > > >>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>> > > > >>> -- > > > >>> Pete Hardie > > > >>> -------- > > > >>> Better Living Through Bitmaps > > > >>> -------------- next part -------------- > > > >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > >>> URL: < > > > >>> http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140925/ > > > >>> 06cc359d/attachment.html > > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > > >>> Ale mailing list > > > >>> Ale at ale.org > > > >>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > > >>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > > >>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > >>> > > > >>> -------------- next part -------------- > > > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > >> URL: > > >> 20140925/469775dc/attachment.html> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> Ale mailing list > > > >> Ale at ale.org > > > >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > > >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > > >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Sent from my Fedora Linux PC to you, NSA, the CIA, FBI, HSA and God > > only > > > > knows who else?! > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Ale mailing list > > > > Ale at ale.org > > > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > "Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new." > > -Albert > > > Einstein > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > URL: < > > > > > > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140926/018b1942/attachment.html > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Ale mailing list > > > Ale at ale.org > > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > > > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140928/e0279a63/attachment.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140928/5665b6af/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From agcarver+ale at acarver.net Sun Sep 28 16:14:35 2014 From: agcarver+ale at acarver.net (Alex Carver) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 13:14:35 -0700 Subject: [ale] Older parent friendly desktop WM Message-ID: <54286C2B.3040200@acarver.net> I need some suggestions on a lightweight desktop WM that would be friendly to my parents that are used to Windows. My dad just got scammed by one of these "driver update" scareware companies (it was a pop-up ad) that charge high dollar amounts for installing free software. I think it's probably time to shift them over to Linux, isolate them from administrative functions, but leave the system looking friendly. Ubuntu might be a bit too much and too heavy for their laptop. I tend to use fluxbox but that's a bit too minimal. :) From allen at ua.edu Sun Sep 28 16:17:00 2014 From: allen at ua.edu (Beddingfield, Allen) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 20:17:00 +0000 Subject: [ale] Older parent friendly desktop WM In-Reply-To: <54286C2B.3040200@acarver.net> References: <54286C2B.3040200@acarver.net> Message-ID: The default installation of XFCE on openSUSE looks similar to a Windows 95 start menu setup. Easy to use, lightweight, and just gets out of the way. That, with Chromium + Pepper Flash and VLC Player should play most anything needed (videos, etc...) -- Allen Beddingfield Systems Engineer The University of Alabama ________________________________________ From: ale-bounces at ale.org [ale-bounces at ale.org] on behalf of Alex Carver [agcarver+ale at acarver.net] Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 3:14 PM To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts Subject: [ale] Older parent friendly desktop WM I need some suggestions on a lightweight desktop WM that would be friendly to my parents that are used to Windows. My dad just got scammed by one of these "driver update" scareware companies (it was a pop-up ad) that charge high dollar amounts for installing free software. I think it's probably time to shift them over to Linux, isolate them from administrative functions, but leave the system looking friendly. Ubuntu might be a bit too much and too heavy for their laptop. I tend to use fluxbox but that's a bit too minimal. :) _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo From bugyatl at gmail.com Sun Sep 28 16:44:58 2014 From: bugyatl at gmail.com (Boris Borisov) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 16:44:58 -0400 Subject: [ale] Older parent friendly desktop WM In-Reply-To: References: <54286C2B.3040200@acarver.net> Message-ID: Lubuntu looks easy ... I just did test run. You have up to date packages with not too many bells. On Sunday, September 28, 2014, Beddingfield, Allen wrote: > The default installation of XFCE on openSUSE looks similar to a Windows 95 > start menu setup. Easy to use, lightweight, and just gets out of the way. > That, with Chromium + Pepper Flash and VLC Player should play most anything > needed (videos, etc...) > -- > Allen Beddingfield > Systems Engineer > The University of Alabama > > ________________________________________ > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [ale-bounces at ale.org > ] on behalf of Alex Carver [agcarver+ale at acarver.net > ] > Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 3:14 PM > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts > Subject: [ale] Older parent friendly desktop WM > > I need some suggestions on a lightweight desktop WM that would be > friendly to my parents that are used to Windows. My dad just got > scammed by one of these "driver update" scareware companies (it was a > pop-up ad) that charge high dollar amounts for installing free software. > > I think it's probably time to shift them over to Linux, isolate them > from administrative functions, but leave the system looking friendly. > > Ubuntu might be a bit too much and too heavy for their laptop. I tend > to use fluxbox but that's a bit too minimal. :) > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- Sent from Gmail Mobile -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jslozier at gmail.com Sun Sep 28 20:29:13 2014 From: jslozier at gmail.com (Jay Lozier) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 20:29:13 -0400 Subject: [ale] Older parent friendly desktop WM In-Reply-To: References: <54286C2B.3040200@acarver.net> Message-ID: <5428A7D9.7060003@gmail.com> On 09/28/2014 04:17 PM, Beddingfield, Allen wrote: > The default installation of XFCE on openSUSE looks similar to a Windows 95 start menu setup. Easy to use, lightweight, and just gets out of the way. That, with Chromium + Pepper Flash and VLC Player should play most anything needed (videos, etc...) > -- > Allen Beddingfield > Systems Engineer > The University of Alabama XFCE for older hardware, if the hardware is newer I might consider Cinnamon. Another alternative is the Ubuntu based distro Zorin which is tries to mimic Windows more closely than other desktops/distros Jay > > ________________________________________ > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [ale-bounces at ale.org] on behalf of Alex Carver [agcarver+ale at acarver.net] > Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 3:14 PM > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts > Subject: [ale] Older parent friendly desktop WM > > I need some suggestions on a lightweight desktop WM that would be > friendly to my parents that are used to Windows. My dad just got > scammed by one of these "driver update" scareware companies (it was a > pop-up ad) that charge high dollar amounts for installing free software. > > I think it's probably time to shift them over to Linux, isolate them > from administrative functions, but leave the system looking friendly. > > Ubuntu might be a bit too much and too heavy for their laptop. I tend > to use fluxbox but that's a bit too minimal. :) > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -- Jay Lozier jslozier at gmail.com From jonnyx at mindspring.com Sun Sep 28 22:02:47 2014 From: jonnyx at mindspring.com (Pope jonnyX) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 21:02:47 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Subject: [ale] PhreakNIC 18 Message-ID: <1925879.1411956168004.JavaMail.root@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net> (Load up your monospace fonts, peoples! ASCII art ahoy, ftw!) Good lord! It's Y88888b. 88 88 .d88888 888888P oOo 88 dP 88 d88 Y8888P o888b. 88 `8D 88 88 88' 88 88 dP Yb 88 dP 88 d8V8 88 d8P~~Y8 88~~d8F 88~~~88 `Yboo88 88~~~d dC 5b 88,dP 88 d8V88 88 88 8888FP 88ooo88 d8'88 88oooT 88ooo88 88`Yb 88d8P 88 88 88 88 88 88 dP 88 88 88~~~88 88 Y8 888P 88 88 Y8b..d8 d88b 88 88 dP 88 888888b 88 88 88 Yb 88P 88 d8888b Y888P' 1010000 1001000 1010010 1000101 1000001 1001011 1001110 1001001 1000011 THE QUICK & DIRTY -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Who: Nashville2600/NLUG/ALE/DC-404/friends & supporters/YOU! Yes, YOU! What: a weekend of hacking, panel discussions, films, music, partying When: 30 Oct (1pmish) - 02 Nov (5pmish) Where: Millennium Maxwell House, Nashville TN http://goo.gl/5Y1vXj or call 800.457.4460 for reservations Why: becausebecausebecausebecauseBECAUSE $$$: $30 'til 25 Oct, $40 at the door -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Howdy, ALE folks! PhreakNIC 18 is swiftly approaching. Want to attend? Get your tickets! https://phreaknic.info/registration Plan on staying at the hotel? Reserve your room ASAP! https://phreaknic.info/hotel The group code will be valid through October 7th or until the hotel sells out, whichever comes first. Got something you want to present? Submit your talks/workshops/events/etc! https://phreaknic.info/CFP Get submissions to us by October 15th if you want your presentations listed in the program booklet. I'm not sure if there's a deadline for the PN18 app; bug sophrinix (PhreakNIC VP & NLUG Pres) for that info. Want to support PN18 in a major way? Be a sponsor! https://phreaknic.info/sponsor Got stuff you want to sell? Vendor tables are dirt cheap! https://phreaknic.info/vendors Want to help in some other way? Be a volunteer! https://phreaknic.info/volunteer Current speaker list and talks: https://phreaknic.info/sessions https://phreaknic.info/speakers Additional speakers, talks and events are being added on a daily basis, check the PN18 website for updates. Note that ALE's list admin Jim Kinney is helping us out this year, and we have an entire track of linux/foss programming. Comments, criticisms, requests, death threats - send 'em to me. ~~jonnyX PS - Social media stuff: see Sept 25th entries for the cipher/crypto challenge, similar to the cards handed out at DragonCon. Win fabulous prizes! https://twitter.com/phreaknic https://www.facebook.com/phreaknic From jkinney at jimkinney.us Sun Sep 28 22:05:28 2014 From: jkinney at jimkinney.us (Jim Kinney) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 22:05:28 -0400 Subject: [ale] returned to the list... In-Reply-To: References: <1411680125.66424.YahooMailNeo@web165001.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <5c89b57d-b8d7-4ad1-b088-2022f6dbee48@email.android.com> <5424D8F2.8060805@gmail.com> Message-ID: Sounds like the scan has an update bug. We hit stuff like that at IBM monthly with upstream release at version 2.3.4 and rhel at 2.2.3-123 as the ran back ported patches and changed build numbers only. Only way to really test is to run the exploit(s) since build #foo as reported by package check None of the scanners EVER ran rpm -Va prior to checking version numbers against CVE codes to check for altered binaries. On September 28, 2014 4:14:30 PM EDT, Wolf Halton wrote: >I am still seeing it as a vulnerability (false positive) on qualys >reports. At least on Rhel 5.x. > >Wolf Halton > >-- >This Apt Has Super Cow Powers - http://sourcefreedom.com >Security in the Cloud - http://AtlantaCloudTech.com > > > >On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 9:32 AM, Jim Kinney >wrote: > >> That openssh fork was folded back in (I think). It merged pam into >ssh to >> allow multiple authentication tools on the back end. That allowed >things >> like searching LDAP for both password and ssh pubkey. >> On Sep 28, 2014 9:20 AM, "Wolf Halton" wrote: >> >> > Ubuntu Studio - Stable, minimalist desktop and runs on my old >laptop. >> > Debian for servers - doesn't have the forked OpenSSH that RHEL has. >> > >> > Wolf Halton >> > >> > -- >> > This Apt Has Super Cow Powers - http://sourcefreedom.com >> > Security in the Cloud - http://AtlantaCloudTech.com >> > >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 8:02 AM, Brian Stanaland > >> > wrote: >> > >> > > OpenSUSE. Because SLES is the preferred OS for the systems we >make at >> > SGI. >> > > >> > > --Brian >> > > >> > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 11:09 PM, Scott Castaline >> > >> > > wrote: >> > > >> > > > C&S!!! >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > On 09/25/2014 08:45 PM, Boris Borisov wrote: >> > > > >> > > >> Ed >> > > >> On Sep 25, 2014 8:45 PM, "Pete Hardie" >> wrote: >> > > >> >> > > >> vi or emacs? >> > > >>> >> > > >>> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 7:13 PM, Michael Trausch > >> > > >>> wrote: >> > > >>> >> > > >>> I'll jump in, and true to recent form, right back out. :) >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>> Fedora and CentOS, depending on the reason for the system. >Why? >> > > Because >> > > >>>> I >> > > >>>> can very easily support dozens and dozens of the boxes while >> lifting >> > > >>>> very >> > > >>>> few fingers. It's not ideal---and believe you me, no >distribution >> > is, >> > > >>>> >> > > >>> yet. >> > > >>> >> > > >>>> The closer I get to end-users, the more I realize the truth >that >> it >> > > >>>> isn't >> > > >>>> about the system. It isn't even about the support. It is >about the >> > > >>>> >> > > >>> ability >> > > >>> >> > > >>>> to provide SUPERIOR support with minimum resources. An ideal >> > > >>>> distribution >> > > >>>> would cover that on all consumer visible fronts. We >posixheads are >> > > great >> > > >>>> great great with the stuff the end user doesn't see or the >PHB >> > doesn't >> > > >>>> support. We need to become better about the other area in >the >> > pool... >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>> Anyway I am throwing away today's soapbox. Back to your >regular >> > > >>>> >> > > >>> chatter.... >> > > >>> >> > > >>>> Sent from my iPad >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>> On Sep 25, 2014, at 6:49 PM, Jim Kinney > >> > > wrote: >> > > >>>>> >> > > >>>>> Welcome back! >> > > >>>>> >> > > >>>>> Let's start a flame war with what distro you most recently >> > installed >> > > >>>>> >> > > >>>> and >> > > >>> >> > > >>>> why didn't you use ? >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>>> :-) >> > > >>>>> >> > > >>>>> On September 25, 2014 5:22:05 PM EDT, David Jackson < >> > > >>>>>> >> > > >>>>> deepbsd at yahoo.com> >> > > >>> >> > > >>>> wrote: >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>>> It's been a long time since I've been on the list (maybe >8-9 >> > years?), >> > > >>>>>> and I thought I'd say hi. >> > > >>>>>> >> > > >>>>>> >> > > >>>>>> I set up some Linux boxes here at home and am getting in >the >> swing >> > > of >> > > >>>>>> it all once again I'm sure I'll have questions, because >prior >> to >> > > >>>>>> recently, the last distro I installed was Slackware 10.1! >:-) >> My >> > > how >> > > >>>>>> things have changed on the distro front. >> > > >>>>>> >> > > >>>>>> Well, I'll sit back and watch for a while and raise my >hand >> when I >> > > >>>>>> break something. >> > > >>>>>> >> > > >>>>>> >> > > >>>>>> Good to be back! >> > > >>>>>> >> > > >>>>>> Dave >> > > >>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- >> > > >>>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> > > >>>>>> URL: >> > > >>>>>> < >> > > >>>>>> >> > > >>>>> http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140925/ >> > > >>> da548cff/attachment.html >> > > >>> >> > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >> > > >>>>>> Ale mailing list >> > > >>>>>> Ale at ale.org >> > > >>>>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> > > >>>>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> > > >>>>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> > > >>>>>> >> > > >>>>> -- >> > > >>>>> Jim Kinney >> > > >>>>> Linux Systems Analyst >> > > >>>>> Physicist/Brewer >> > > >>>>> http://jimkinney.us >> > > >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- >> > > >>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> > > >>>>> URL: < >> > > >>>>> >> > > >>>> http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140925/ >> > > >>> a82a3e4f/attachment.html >> > > >>> >> > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >> > > >>>>> Ale mailing list >> > > >>>>> Ale at ale.org >> > > >>>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> > > >>>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> > > >>>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> > > >>>>> >> > > >>>> _______________________________________________ >> > > >>>> Ale mailing list >> > > >>>> Ale at ale.org >> > > >>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> > > >>>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> > > >>>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> -- >> > > >>> Pete Hardie >> > > >>> -------- >> > > >>> Better Living Through Bitmaps >> > > >>> -------------- next part -------------- >> > > >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> > > >>> URL: < >> > > >>> http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140925/ >> > > >>> 06cc359d/attachment.html >> > > >>> _______________________________________________ >> > > >>> Ale mailing list >> > > >>> Ale at ale.org >> > > >>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> > > >>> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> > > >>> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> > > >>> >> > > >>> -------------- next part -------------- >> > > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> > > >> URL: > > > >> 20140925/469775dc/attachment.html> >> > > >> _______________________________________________ >> > > >> Ale mailing list >> > > >> Ale at ale.org >> > > >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> > > >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> > > >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> > > >> >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > -- >> > > > Sent from my Fedora Linux PC to you, NSA, the CIA, FBI, HSA and >God >> > only >> > > > knows who else?! >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ >> > > > Ale mailing list >> > > > Ale at ale.org >> > > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> > > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> > > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > "Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything >new." >> > -Albert >> > > Einstein >> > > -------------- next part -------------- >> > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> > > URL: < >> > > >> > >> >http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140926/018b1942/attachment.html >> > > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Ale mailing list >> > > Ale at ale.org >> > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> > > >> > -------------- next part -------------- >> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> > URL: < >> > >> >http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140928/e0279a63/attachment.html >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Ale mailing list >> > Ale at ale.org >> > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> > >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: < >> >http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140928/5665b6af/attachment.html >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: > >_______________________________________________ >Ale mailing list >Ale at ale.org >http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -- Jim Kinney Linux Systems Analyst Physicist/Brewer http://jimkinney.us -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From warlord at MIT.EDU Sun Sep 28 19:44:49 2014 From: warlord at MIT.EDU (Derek Atkins) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 19:44:49 -0400 Subject: [ale] bash critical vulnerability - update NOW! In-Reply-To: (James Sumners's message of "Wed, 24 Sep 2014 14:50:58 -0400") References: Message-ID: James Sumners writes: > The moral of this story: don't write CGI scripts in Bash. It's more than just CGI, unfortunately. Anything that runs bash can be hit. For example, DHCP is succeptible. -derek -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/ PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH warlord at MIT.EDU PGP key available From deepbsd at yahoo.com Mon Sep 29 09:24:24 2014 From: deepbsd at yahoo.com (David Jackson) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 06:24:24 -0700 Subject: [ale] returned to the list... In-Reply-To: References: <1411680125.66424.YahooMailNeo@web165001.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <5c89b57d-b8d7-4ad1-b088-2022f6dbee48@email.android.com> <5424D8F2.8060805@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1411997064.16276.YahooMailNeo@web165003.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> okay, never did answer this: vi mail client is web mail for now. but used to use mutt. am looking at mutt, evolution or claws. maybe thunderbird. they're all sorta working. I'm a distro slut. I like 'em all. but probably slackware and ubuntu. very very different. it's like having my own harem. whew! get away from the keyboard Dave! I better go find a water cooler and socialize for a while! Dave -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From preston.lists at gmail.com Mon Sep 29 10:52:33 2014 From: preston.lists at gmail.com (Preston) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 09:52:33 -0500 Subject: [ale] Older parent friendly desktop WM In-Reply-To: <54286C2B.3040200@acarver.net> References: <54286C2B.3040200@acarver.net> Message-ID: <54297231.3040806@gmail.com> On 9/28/2014 3:14 PM, Alex Carver wrote: > I need some suggestions on a lightweight desktop WM that would be > friendly to my parents that are used to Windows. My dad just got > scammed by one of these "driver update" scareware companies (it was a > pop-up ad) that charge high dollar amounts for installing free software. > > I think it's probably time to shift them over to Linux, isolate them > from administrative functions, but leave the system looking friendly. > > Ubuntu might be a bit too much and too heavy for their laptop. I tend > to use fluxbox but that's a bit too minimal. :) > I've put PeppermintOS on lots of peoples laptops/netbooks. It's a small footprint cloud friendly spin of Linux Mint (made by LM devs) and uses an LXDE environment. It also has a nice Software Center that people find easy to use. If you want to stick with something longterm how about Lubuntu LTS? As an aside, I was a longtime fluxbox user, but pulled a stint with FVWM-Crystal and now have become entrapped in Openbox land. Preston -- Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don?t matter and those who matter don?t mind. -Dr. Seuss From bugyatl at gmail.com Mon Sep 29 15:05:57 2014 From: bugyatl at gmail.com (Boris Borisov) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 15:05:57 -0400 Subject: [ale] OT: CPU Message-ID: Things were easy back days. There was Pentium and the stripped from second level cash Celeron. Today Intel seems to put different names on every single chip they came up with. Looks for me that they user random generator for naming system. I'm lost :) -- Sent from Gmail Mobile -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From preston.lists at gmail.com Mon Sep 29 15:44:56 2014 From: preston.lists at gmail.com (Preston) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 14:44:56 -0500 Subject: [ale] OT: CPU In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5429B6B8.1040704@gmail.com> On 9/29/2014 2:05 PM, Boris Borisov wrote: > Things were easy back days. There was Pentium and the stripped from second > level cash Celeron. Today Intel seems to put different names on every > single chip they came up with. Looks for me that they user random generator > for naming system. I'm lost :) Xeon on my CAD machines and servers. i5's on the "common" machines (spreadsheets, web surfing, documents, email). i7's on my laptops (get nvidia graphics card with 2GB min) since I've gone this route, I've had no issues. Preston -- Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don?t matter and those who matter don?t mind. -Dr. Seuss From james.sumners at gmail.com Mon Sep 29 15:55:58 2014 From: james.sumners at gmail.com (James Sumners) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 15:55:58 -0400 Subject: [ale] bash critical vulnerability - update NOW! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 7:44 PM, Derek Atkins wrote: > James Sumners writes: > > > The moral of this story: don't write CGI scripts in Bash. > > It's more than just CGI, unfortunately. Anything that runs bash can be > hit. For example, DHCP is succeptible. > And then we have shenanigans like this -- https://github.com/jaburns/ngincat -- James Sumners http://james.roomfullofmirrors.com/ "All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted." Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto) CH:D 59 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Mon Sep 29 17:13:01 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 17:13:01 -0400 Subject: [ale] bash critical vulnerability - update NOW! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:55 PM, James Sumners wrote: > On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 7:44 PM, Derek Atkins wrote: > > > James Sumners writes: > > > > > The moral of this story: don't write CGI scripts in Bash. > > > > It's more than just CGI, unfortunately. Anything that runs bash can be > > hit. For example, DHCP is succeptible. > > > > And then we have shenanigans like this -- > https://github.com/jaburns/ngincat > What could POSSIBLY go wrong! > > > -- > James Sumners > http://james.roomfullofmirrors.com/ > > "All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological > personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the > corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a > condition to which they are quickly addicted." > > Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto) > CH:D 59 > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140929/e8944081/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ted-lists at xy0.org Tue Sep 30 08:05:40 2014 From: ted-lists at xy0.org (Ted W) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 08:05:40 -0400 Subject: [ale] Changing Linux In-Reply-To: References: <1411755707.60965.YahooMailNeo@web165006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <5425BE14.90209@xy0.org> <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EC7D0E@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> <20140926205845.GB22803@datasus.dino.lan> <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EC7E43@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> <54271305.6000102@benshome.net> Message-ID: <542A9C94.1000702@xy0.org> On 09/28/14 09:28, Jim Kinney wrote: > Thanks to changing methods of email and cheap storage, top posting now > makes more sense. > > When storage was very costly, i.e., pre-Internet days, bottom posting > preserved the thread because the prior messages were deleted. > > Now with cheap storage, all emails can be kept in thread order and top > posting makes info retrieval easier. > > The world has changed. See bottom for more. > On Sep 28, 2014 9:16 AM, "Wolf Halton" wrote: >> >> Gmail wants you to top-post. >> It is listening. One wouldn't want to make it angry. >> >> Wolf Halton >> Except for those of us who run our own mail servers on a cheap VPS and are too cheap to pay for more storage... Forever stuck in the world of "delete messages from server" ;) -- Ted W. From jim.kinney at gmail.com Tue Sep 30 08:43:44 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 08:43:44 -0400 Subject: [ale] Changing Linux In-Reply-To: <542A9C94.1000702@xy0.org> References: <1411755707.60965.YahooMailNeo@web165006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <5425BE14.90209@xy0.org> <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EC7D0E@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> <20140926205845.GB22803@datasus.dino.lan> <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9EC7E43@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> <54271305.6000102@benshome.net> <542A9C94.1000702@xy0.org> Message-ID: On Sep 30, 2014 8:08 AM, "Ted W" wrote: > > On 09/28/14 09:28, Jim Kinney wrote: >> >> Thanks to changing methods of email and cheap storage, top posting now >> makes more sense. >> >> When storage was very costly, i.e., pre-Internet days, bottom posting >> preserved the thread because the prior messages were deleted. >> >> Now with cheap storage, all emails can be kept in thread order and top >> posting makes info retrieval easier. >> >> The world has changed. See bottom for more. >> On Sep 28, 2014 9:16 AM, "Wolf Halton" wrote: >>> >>> >>> Gmail wants you to top-post. >>> It is listening. One wouldn't want to make it angry. >>> >>> Wolf Halton >>> > > > Except for those of us who run our own mail servers on a cheap VPS and are too cheap to pay for more storage... Forever stuck in the world of "delete messages from server" ;) > +1 :-) > -- > Ted W. > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From savithari at gmail.com Tue Sep 30 09:47:49 2014 From: savithari at gmail.com (Narahari 'n' Savitha) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 09:47:49 -0400 Subject: [ale] .edu email address availability Message-ID: Friends: Is there a way to get an email address with .edu domain ? There is this software that I can install if I have one. http://slickdeals.net/f/7219822-jetbrains-released-products-for-free-to-students-edu-email-required -N -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From allen at ua.edu Tue Sep 30 09:53:50 2014 From: allen at ua.edu (Beddingfield, Allen) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 13:53:50 +0000 Subject: [ale] .edu email address availability In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ummm...without being a student or education employee, not really. If you look in the EULA, I'm sure it says that you have to be a student or work for a university/school to get that pricing. -- Allen Beddingfield Systems Engineer The University of Alabama ________________________________________ From: ale-bounces at ale.org [ale-bounces at ale.org] on behalf of Narahari 'n' Savitha [savithari at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 8:47 AM To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts - Yes! We run Linux! Subject: [ale] .edu email address availability Friends: Is there a way to get an email address with .edu domain ? There is this software that I can install if I have one. http://slickdeals.net/f/7219822-jetbrains-released-products-for-free-to-students-edu-email-required -N -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo From james.sumners at gmail.com Tue Sep 30 09:58:11 2014 From: james.sumners at gmail.com (James Sumners) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 09:58:11 -0400 Subject: [ale] .edu email address availability In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yep. But that doesn't stop some people from being jerks and doing it anyway. I use IntelliJ frequently. It is well worth the money for a license. I couldn't do Java development without it. On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 9:53 AM, Beddingfield, Allen wrote: > Ummm...without being a student or education employee, not really. If you > look in the EULA, I'm sure it says that you have to be a student or work > for a university/school to get that pricing. > -- James Sumners http://james.roomfullofmirrors.com/ "All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted." Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto) CH:D 59 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Tue Sep 30 10:58:11 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 10:58:11 -0400 Subject: [ale] .edu email address availability In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://www.jetbrains.org/display/IJOS/Home;jsessionid=31603FE4503B26C7FB1A26A9BC82BD11 They have an opensource, free download version as well On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 9:47 AM, Narahari 'n' Savitha wrote: > Friends: > > Is there a way to get an email address with .edu domain ? > > There is this software that I can install if I have one. > > > http://slickdeals.net/f/7219822-jetbrains-released-products-for-free-to-students-edu-email-required > > -N > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140930/fd2cae60/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From beyerg at bellsouth.net Tue Sep 30 12:00:08 2014 From: beyerg at bellsouth.net (beyerg) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 16:00:08 -0000 Subject: [ale] Auto Response Message-ID: <98762.42639.bm@omp1050.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From splante at insightsys.com Tue Sep 30 11:34:05 2014 From: splante at insightsys.com (Scott Plante) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 11:34:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [ale] / 70% full In-Reply-To: <542422D5.60103@gmail.com> Message-ID: <548000818.2730.1412091244962.JavaMail.root@insightsys.com> If you have a GUI environment there, KDirStat is a great tool for tracking down where all your disk space is going. http://kdirstat.sourceforge.net/ Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Cartwright" To: ale at ale.org Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2014 10:12:37 AM Subject: [ale] / 70% full ok, this isn't an urgent issue ( yet).. my fedora 20 root partition is 72% full. I gave it 20GB ( you will never need more than that, right;-0) and right now it has 5.1Gb free, with 14GB used.. on another partition I just installed openSUSE in a similar 20GB root, and it is only 32% full, and that is with both MATE & KDE installed.. what could I look to remove ?? does fedora keep all copies of software installed somewhere that I can delete?? is there some creeping files that grow?? am I missing something? -- Paul Cartwright Registered Linux User #367800 and new counter #561587 _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Tue Sep 30 11:55:47 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 11:55:47 -0400 Subject: [ale] filter change in mailman Message-ID: I've disabled the "html attachment was scrubbed" crap as it seems to be an infinite loop generator. I'll look later at adding some more intelligent scrubbers so things like 8000 character signature lines and random clip art get dropped from the posts. -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Tue Sep 30 12:08:00 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 12:08:00 -0400 Subject: [ale] vips in rhel/centos 7 Message-ID: Anyone running virtual IPs in RHEL/Centos 7? I set up a new desktop and did my usual eth0 -> eth0:1 vip setup (OK so it's enp0s25 -> enp0s25:1) and a restarting of NetworkManager shows no new virtual interface. -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pbcartwright at gmail.com Tue Sep 30 12:09:42 2014 From: pbcartwright at gmail.com (Paul Cartwright) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 12:09:42 -0400 Subject: [ale] / 70% full In-Reply-To: <548000818.2730.1412091244962.JavaMail.root@insightsys.com> References: <548000818.2730.1412091244962.JavaMail.root@insightsys.com> Message-ID: <542AD5C6.40208@gmail.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From savithari at gmail.com Tue Sep 30 13:05:00 2014 From: savithari at gmail.com (Narahari 'n' Savitha) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 13:05:00 -0400 Subject: [ale] .edu email address availability In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It is not intellij only. There are tons of other software free if you have .edu mail address is free. So?.. how to get .edu email address? -Narahari On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 10:58 AM, Jim Kinney wrote: > > http://www.jetbrains.org/display/IJOS/Home;jsessionid=31603FE4503B26C7FB1A26A9BC82BD11 > > They have an opensource, free download version as well > > On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 9:47 AM, Narahari 'n' Savitha > > wrote: > > > Friends: > > > > Is there a way to get an email address with .edu domain ? > > > > There is this software that I can install if I have one. > > > > > > > http://slickdeals.net/f/7219822-jetbrains-released-products-for-free-to-students-edu-email-required > > > > -N > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > > > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140930/fd2cae60/attachment.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale at ale.org > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > > > > > -- > -- > James P. Kinney III > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. > It won't fatten the dog. > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > * > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140930/b713bade/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From leamhall at gmail.com Tue Sep 30 13:09:37 2014 From: leamhall at gmail.com (leam hall) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 13:09:37 -0400 Subject: [ale] .edu email address availability In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 1:05 PM, Narahari 'n' Savitha wrote: > It is not intellij only. There are tons of other software free if you have > .edu mail address is free. > > So?.. how to get .edu email address? > > -Narahari Go to school or work at a school. Leam -- Mind on a Mission From jim.kinney at gmail.com Tue Sep 30 13:10:10 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 13:10:10 -0400 Subject: [ale] .edu email address availability In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: go back to school. Literally. Take a class and get a student ID and email address. But note the license distinctions: student license is not for commercial projects. Besides, EMACS will write the code for, debug it and read your fan email back to you after you publish it all to github. :-) On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 1:05 PM, Narahari 'n' Savitha wrote: > It is not intellij only. There are tons of other software free if you > have .edu mail address is free. > > So?.. how to get .edu email address? > > -Narahari > > > On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 10:58 AM, Jim Kinney wrote: > >> >> http://www.jetbrains.org/display/IJOS/Home;jsessionid=31603FE4503B26C7FB1A26A9BC82BD11 >> >> They have an opensource, free download version as well >> >> On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 9:47 AM, Narahari 'n' Savitha < >> savithari at gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> > Friends: >> > >> > Is there a way to get an email address with .edu domain ? >> > >> > There is this software that I can install if I have one. >> > >> > >> > >> http://slickdeals.net/f/7219822-jetbrains-released-products-for-free-to-students-edu-email-required >> > >> > -N >> > -------------- next part -------------- >> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> > URL: < >> > >> http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140930/fd2cae60/attachment.html >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Ale mailing list >> > Ale at ale.org >> > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> -- >> James P. Kinney III >> >> Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain >> at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. >> It won't fatten the dog. >> - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain >> >> >> *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ >> * >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: < >> http://mail.ale.org/pipermail/ale/attachments/20140930/b713bade/attachment.html >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> > > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pizza at shaftnet.org Tue Sep 30 13:15:19 2014 From: pizza at shaftnet.org (Solomon Peachy) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 13:15:19 -0400 Subject: [ale] .edu email address availability In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140930171519.GB31084@shaftnet.org> On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 01:05:00PM -0400, Narahari 'n' Savitha wrote: > It is not intellij only. There are tons of other software free if you have > .edu mail address is free. > > So?.. how to get .edu email address? I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume you're not asking for someone to help you commit felony fraud. So, the most expedient way to get an .edu addres is to enroll in an educational institution such as your local community college, where your choices undoubtedly include courses on sociology, philosophy, criminal justice, or something equally uplifting. I wish you well in your education! - Solomon -- Solomon Peachy pizza at shaftnet dot org Delray Beach, FL ^^ (email/xmpp) ^^ Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 155 bytes Desc: not available URL: From JLightner at dsservices.com Tue Sep 30 13:23:34 2014 From: JLightner at dsservices.com (Lightner, Jeff) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 17:23:34 +0000 Subject: [ale] vips in rhel/centos 7 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9ED1880@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> Did you do the setup using the config tool or did you do it by editing a file from command line? Haven?t done it on RHEL7 yet but on later versions of RHEL6 it was using the Network Manager rather than the network to do configurations and I noticed that alias IPs (along with the primary IP) had to be configured in the main ifcfg-eth0 file in /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts rather than in a separate ifcfg-eth0:1 file as they did previously. In RHEL6 we disabled Network Manager to return to previous functionality mainly because we couldn?t see the aliases with the old tool (there was a newer one to see them but it annoyed others). My note at the time said: You can?t see the aliases with ifconfig but can with nm-tool This link is the one I found that helped me and I added comments when I worked on it that may be helpful: https://access.redhat.com/site/solutions/32652 From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Jim Kinney Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 12:09 PM To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts - Yes! We run Linux! Subject: [ale] vips in rhel/centos 7 Anyone running virtual IPs in RHEL/Centos 7? I set up a new desktop and did my usual eth0 -> eth0:1 vip setup (OK so it's enp0s25 -> enp0s25:1) and a restarting of NetworkManager shows no new virtual interface. -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ Athena?, Created for the Cause? Making a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Cancer _________________________________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged or confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bugyatl at gmail.com Tue Sep 30 13:26:17 2014 From: bugyatl at gmail.com (Boris Borisov) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 17:26:17 +0000 Subject: [ale] Slitaz RasPI Message-ID: I've tried Slitaz for raspberrypi this morning and runs very well. I'll stick with it for now to see what will happend. As the site says "Official SliTaz GNU/Linux Raspberry Pi distribution, a small operating system for a small computer!" -- Sent from Gmail Mobile -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.sumners at gmail.com Tue Sep 30 13:27:07 2014 From: james.sumners at gmail.com (James Sumners) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 13:27:07 -0400 Subject: [ale] .edu email address availability In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 1:09 PM, leam hall wrote: > On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 1:05 PM, Narahari 'n' Savitha > wrote: > > It is not intellij only. There are tons of other software free if you > have > > .edu mail address is free. > > > > So?.. how to get .edu email address? > > > > -Narahari > > Go to school or work at a school. > If by "work at a school" you mean "teach at a school" then, yes, that'll qualify. The language of the offer specifically targets students and faculty, not staff. At least prior to this deal, they did offer the educational pricing to institution departments, though. -- James Sumners http://james.roomfullofmirrors.com/ "All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted." Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto) CH:D 59 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stillwaxin at gmail.com Tue Sep 30 13:30:32 2014 From: stillwaxin at gmail.com (Michael Still) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 13:30:32 -0400 Subject: [ale] vips in rhel/centos 7 In-Reply-To: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9ED1880@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> References: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9ED1880@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> Message-ID: To do "VIPs" on linux where the box is doing something behind a load balancer then I think you may want to add the IP as a loopback via 'ip addr add'. I'm not actually 100% sure what the best thing to do on rhel is though. Haven't needed to mess with this stuff in a while... On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 1:23 PM, Lightner, Jeff wrote: > Did you do the setup using the config tool or did you do it by editing > a file from command line? > > > > Haven?t done it on RHEL7 yet but on later versions of RHEL6 it was using > the Network Manager rather than the network to do configurations and I > noticed that alias IPs (along with the primary IP) had to be configured in > the main ifcfg-eth0 file in /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts rather than in a > separate ifcfg-eth0:1 file as they did previously. In RHEL6 we disabled > Network Manager to return to previous functionality mainly because we > couldn?t see the aliases with the old tool (there was a newer one to see > them but it annoyed others). > > > > My note at the time said: > > You can?t see the aliases with ifconfig but can with nm-tool > > > > This link is the one I found that helped me and I added comments when I > worked on it that may be helpful: > > https://access.redhat.com/site/solutions/32652 > > > > > > > > > > *From:* ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] *On Behalf Of *Jim > Kinney > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 30, 2014 12:09 PM > *To:* Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts - Yes! We run Linux! > *Subject:* [ale] vips in rhel/centos 7 > > > > Anyone running virtual IPs in RHEL/Centos 7? I set up a new desktop and > did my usual eth0 -> eth0:1 vip setup (OK so it's enp0s25 -> enp0s25:1) and > a restarting of NetworkManager shows no new virtual interface. > > > -- > > -- > James P. Kinney III > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. > It won't fatten the dog. > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > * http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > * > > > > Athena?, Created for the Cause? > > Making a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Cancer > > _________________________________________________________ > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged > > or confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended > > recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, > > copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information > > is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic > > transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that > > you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you. > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > -- [stillwaxin at gmail.com ~]$ cat .signature cat: .signature: No such file or directory [stillwaxin at gmail.com ~]$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JLightner at dsservices.com Tue Sep 30 13:39:36 2014 From: JLightner at dsservices.com (Lightner, Jeff) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 17:39:36 +0000 Subject: [ale] Something faster than X-Windows but more secure than VNC server? Message-ID: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9ED18B9@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> Basic question: Can anyone suggest something faster than X-Windows but more secure than VNC server? Details: We have applications that run as X applications. The vendor is used to running this in VNC Server but that isn?t very secure. We instead gave X access on MS-Windows desktops using Exceed or Cygwin/X and the applications are exported back to the users? desktop. Since we?re doing this via ssh X tunneling it is encrypted. The users continually complain that this is too slow for their needs. We did initially give a single VPN session access to a remote consultant using VNC because it was clearly too slow going over the multiple hops it took to him in Pennsylvania. Now I?m being asked to either turn on VNC Server for the users to access internally or propose an alternative solution. Is there such a thing as a host based service like VNC Server but that makes an encrypted connection to the users? desktop so that only the display is being sent encrypted rather than having to draw on the desktop. Is there a way to make the VNC connection encrypted? Jeffrey C. Lightner Sr. UNIX Administrator DS Services of America, Inc. 5660 New Northside Drive NW Suite 250 Atlanta, GA 30328 P: 678-486-3516 C: 678-772-0018 F: 678-460-3603 E: jlightner at dsservices.com Athena?, Created for the Cause? Making a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Cancer _________________________________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged or confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jkinney at jimkinney.us Tue Sep 30 13:43:15 2014 From: jkinney at jimkinney.us (Jim Kinney) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 13:43:15 -0400 Subject: [ale] Something faster than X-Windows but more secure than VNC server? In-Reply-To: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9ED18B9@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> References: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9ED18B9@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> Message-ID: <4d7001d3-97f0-44d0-a5a5-d329d3093786@email.android.com> Freenx. Uses a ssh tunnel by default and is at least one, if not two orders of magnitude faster than vnc. Think usable X desktop over dialup. On September 30, 2014 1:39:36 PM EDT, "Lightner, Jeff" wrote: >Basic question: >Can anyone suggest something faster than X-Windows but more secure than >VNC server? > >Details: >We have applications that run as X applications. The vendor is used >to running this in VNC Server but that isn?t very secure. > >We instead gave X access on MS-Windows desktops using Exceed or >Cygwin/X and the applications are exported back to the users? desktop. > Since we?re doing this via ssh X tunneling it is encrypted. > >The users continually complain that this is too slow for their needs. >We did initially give a single VPN session access to a remote >consultant using VNC because it was clearly too slow going over the >multiple hops it took to him in Pennsylvania. > >Now I?m being asked to either turn on VNC Server for the users to >access internally or propose an alternative solution. > >Is there such a thing as a host based service like VNC Server but that >makes an encrypted connection to the users? desktop so that only the >display is being sent encrypted rather than having to draw on the >desktop. Is there a way to make the VNC connection encrypted? > >Jeffrey C. Lightner >Sr. UNIX Administrator > >DS Services of America, Inc. >5660 New Northside Drive NW >Suite 250 >Atlanta, GA 30328 > >P: 678-486-3516 >C: 678-772-0018 >F: 678-460-3603 >E: jlightner at dsservices.com > > > > >Athena?, Created for the Cause? > >Making a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Cancer > >_________________________________________________________ > >CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged > >or confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended > >recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, > >copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information > >is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic > >transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that > >you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you. > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Ale mailing list >Ale at ale.org >http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -- Jim Kinney Linux Systems Analyst Physicist/Brewer http://jimkinney.us -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Tue Sep 30 14:07:11 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 14:07:11 -0400 Subject: [ale] vips in rhel/centos 7 In-Reply-To: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9ED1880@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> References: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9ED1880@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> Message-ID: I did a direct file edit and no luck. I did do old-school one file per IP. I'll go try again with NetworkManager. I see it has a way to add additional IPs in the gui. This is for a simple issue: new switch has a 192.168.100.X IP. Need to be able to connect to it to get it set up so I can install more bit-slinging happy toys in a rack. On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 1:23 PM, Lightner, Jeff wrote: > Did you do the setup using the config tool or did you do it by editing > a file from command line? > > > > Haven?t done it on RHEL7 yet but on later versions of RHEL6 it was using > the Network Manager rather than the network to do configurations and I > noticed that alias IPs (along with the primary IP) had to be configured in > the main ifcfg-eth0 file in /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts rather than in a > separate ifcfg-eth0:1 file as they did previously. In RHEL6 we disabled > Network Manager to return to previous functionality mainly because we > couldn?t see the aliases with the old tool (there was a newer one to see > them but it annoyed others). > > > > My note at the time said: > > You can?t see the aliases with ifconfig but can with nm-tool > > > > This link is the one I found that helped me and I added comments when I > worked on it that may be helpful: > > https://access.redhat.com/site/solutions/32652 > > > > > > > > > > *From:* ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] *On Behalf Of *Jim > Kinney > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 30, 2014 12:09 PM > *To:* Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts - Yes! We run Linux! > *Subject:* [ale] vips in rhel/centos 7 > > > > Anyone running virtual IPs in RHEL/Centos 7? I set up a new desktop and > did my usual eth0 -> eth0:1 vip setup (OK so it's enp0s25 -> enp0s25:1) and > a restarting of NetworkManager shows no new virtual interface. > > > -- > > -- > James P. Kinney III > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. > It won't fatten the dog. > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > * http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > * > > > > Athena?, Created for the Cause? > > Making a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Cancer > > _________________________________________________________ > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged > > or confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended > > recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, > > copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information > > is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic > > transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that > > you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you. > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ale at horkan.net Tue Sep 30 14:20:54 2014 From: ale at horkan.net (Horkan Smith) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 14:20:54 -0400 Subject: [ale] Something faster than X-Windows but more secure than VNC server? In-Reply-To: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9ED18B9@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> References: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9ED18B9@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> Message-ID: <20140930182053.GG1544@horkan.net> 1) Some versions of VNC server/client to support SSH connections internally - see the -via option for Debian's xvnc4viewer app. For low bandwidth connections, I tend to reduce the color space by default and only up it when I'm reading something that needs it. 2) Failing that, you can also set up a basic ssh tunnel (see the ssh -L lport:host:rport option) for the port in question. You can even use the vncserver -localhost option on the VNC server to make it harder to access the server port from other interfaces. On a laptop running Arch, I use something like: $ ssh -f -L 5910:vncserverhostname:5900 -g hostthatcanseethevncserver sleep 20 $ vncviewer :10 -shared -name my_vnc_session -compresslevel 9 -quality 2 -encodings "copyrect tight" 3) As Jim mentioned, you could also try freenx; I need to spend more time trying that out myself. later! horkan On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 05:39:36PM +0000, Lightner, Jeff wrote: > Basic question: > Can anyone suggest something faster than X-Windows but more secure than VNC server? > > Details: > We have applications that run as X applications. The vendor is used to running this in VNC Server but that isn???t very secure. > > We instead gave X access on MS-Windows desktops using Exceed or Cygwin/X and the applications are exported back to the users??? desktop. Since we???re doing this via ssh X tunneling it is encrypted. > > The users continually complain that this is too slow for their needs. We did initially give a single VPN session access to a remote consultant using VNC because it was clearly too slow going over the multiple hops it took to him in Pennsylvania. > > Now I???m being asked to either turn on VNC Server for the users to access internally or propose an alternative solution. > > Is there such a thing as a host based service like VNC Server but that makes an encrypted connection to the users??? desktop so that only the display is being sent encrypted rather than having to draw on the desktop. Is there a way to make the VNC connection encrypted? > > Jeffrey C. Lightner > Sr. UNIX Administrator > > DS Services of America, Inc. > 5660 New Northside Drive NW > Suite 250 > Atlanta, GA 30328 > > P: 678-486-3516 > C: 678-772-0018 > F: 678-460-3603 > E: jlightner at dsservices.com > > > > > Athena??, Created for the Cause??? > > Making a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Cancer > > _________________________________________________________ > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged > > or confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended > > recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, > > copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information > > is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic > > transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that > > you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you. > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -- Horkan Smith 678-777-3263 cell, ale at horkan.net From sparr0 at gmail.com Tue Sep 30 14:28:10 2014 From: sparr0 at gmail.com (Sparr) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 13:28:10 -0500 Subject: [ale] Something faster than X-Windows but more secure than VNC server? In-Reply-To: <4d7001d3-97f0-44d0-a5a5-d329d3093786@email.android.com> References: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9ED18B9@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> <4d7001d3-97f0-44d0-a5a5-d329d3093786@email.android.com> Message-ID: I'll third FreeNX. On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 12:43 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > Freenx. Uses a ssh tunnel by default and is at least one, if not two orders > of magnitude faster than vnc. Think usable X desktop over dialup. From jim.kinney at gmail.com Tue Sep 30 15:00:04 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 15:00:04 -0400 Subject: [ale] vips in rhel/centos 7 In-Reply-To: References: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9ED1880@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> Message-ID: So the new NetworkManager has the ability to do much, MUCH more than the old on in 6.5 (which was turned off by default by me). The IPV4 section will add as manay additional IPs as needed creating a file like this: TYPE=Ethernet BOOTPROTO=none IPADDR0=170.140.61.59 PREFIX0=24 GATEWAY0=170.140.61.2 IPADDR1=192.168.100.1 PREFIX1=24 DNS1=170.140.1.1 DNS2=170.140.2.1 DEFROUTE=yes IPV4_FAILURE_FATAL=no IPV6INIT=yes IPV6_AUTOCONF=no IPV6_DEFROUTE=yes IPV6_FAILURE_FATAL=no NAME=enp0s25 UUID=f00e6346-be4c-40ce-b1db-17f926a8edba DEVICE=enp0s25 ONBOOT=yes HWADDR=00:26:B9:8E:73:29 Yes. ifconfig is now dead (). Must learn new tool that give craptons of data in either pretty or terse format. nmcli d show (give loads in terse format). nmcli d show GENERAL.DEVICE: enp0s25 GENERAL.TYPE: ethernet GENERAL.HWADDR: 00:26:B9:8E:73:29 GENERAL.MTU: 1500 GENERAL.STATE: 100 (connected) GENERAL.CONNECTION: enp0s25 GENERAL.CON-PATH: /org/freedesktop/NetworkManager/ActiveConnection/2 WIRED-PROPERTIES.CARRIER: on IP4.ADDRESS[1]: ip = 170.140.61.59/24, gw = 170.140.61.2 IP4.ADDRESS[2]: ip = 192.168.100.1/24, gw = 170.140.61.2 IP4.DNS[1]: 170.140.1.1 IP4.DNS[2]: 170.140.2.1 IP6.ADDRESS[1]: ip = fe80::226:b9ff:fe8e:7329/64, gw = :: GENERAL.DEVICE: lo GENERAL.TYPE: loopback GENERAL.HWADDR: 00:00:00:00:00:00 GENERAL.MTU: 65536 GENERAL.STATE: 10 (unmanaged) GENERAL.CONNECTION: -- GENERAL.CON-PATH: -- IP4.ADDRESS[1]: ip = 127.0.0.1/8, gw = 0.0.0.0 IP6.ADDRESS[1]: ip = ::1/128, gw = :: nmcli -p d show =============================================================================== Device details (enp0s25) =============================================================================== GENERAL.DEVICE: enp0s25 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- GENERAL.TYPE: ethernet ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- GENERAL.HWADDR: 00:26:B9:8E:73:29 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- GENERAL.MTU: 1500 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- GENERAL.STATE: 100 (connected) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- GENERAL.CONNECTION: enp0s25 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- GENERAL.CON-PATH: /org/freedesktop/NetworkManager/ActiveConnection/2 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WIRED-PROPERTIES.CARRIER: on ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IP4.ADDRESS[1]: ip = 170.140.61.59/24, gw = 170.140.61.2 IP4.ADDRESS[2]: ip = 192.168.100.1/24, gw = 170.140.61.2 IP4.DNS[1]: 170.140.1.1 IP4.DNS[2]: 170.140.2.1 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IP6.ADDRESS[1]: ip = fe80::226:b9ff:fe8e:7329/64, gw = :: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- =============================================================================== Device details (lo) =============================================================================== GENERAL.DEVICE: lo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- GENERAL.TYPE: loopback ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- GENERAL.HWADDR: 00:00:00:00:00:00 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- GENERAL.MTU: 65536 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- GENERAL.STATE: 10 (unmanaged) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- GENERAL.CONNECTION: -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- GENERAL.CON-PATH: -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IP4.ADDRESS[1]: ip = 127.0.0.1/8, gw = 0.0.0.0 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IP6.ADDRESS[1]: ip = ::1/128, gw = :: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 2:07 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > I did a direct file edit and no luck. I did do old-school one file per IP. > I'll go try again with NetworkManager. I see it has a way to add additional > IPs in the gui. > > This is for a simple issue: new switch has a 192.168.100.X IP. Need to be > able to connect to it to get it set up so I can install more bit-slinging > happy toys in a rack. > > On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 1:23 PM, Lightner, Jeff > wrote: > >> Did you do the setup using the config tool or did you do it by editing >> a file from command line? >> >> >> >> Haven?t done it on RHEL7 yet but on later versions of RHEL6 it was using >> the Network Manager rather than the network to do configurations and I >> noticed that alias IPs (along with the primary IP) had to be configured in >> the main ifcfg-eth0 file in /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts rather than in a >> separate ifcfg-eth0:1 file as they did previously. In RHEL6 we disabled >> Network Manager to return to previous functionality mainly because we >> couldn?t see the aliases with the old tool (there was a newer one to see >> them but it annoyed others). >> >> >> >> My note at the time said: >> >> You can?t see the aliases with ifconfig but can with nm-tool >> >> >> >> This link is the one I found that helped me and I added comments when I >> worked on it that may be helpful: >> >> https://access.redhat.com/site/solutions/32652 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] *On Behalf Of *Jim >> Kinney >> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 30, 2014 12:09 PM >> *To:* Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts - Yes! We run Linux! >> *Subject:* [ale] vips in rhel/centos 7 >> >> >> >> Anyone running virtual IPs in RHEL/Centos 7? I set up a new desktop and >> did my usual eth0 -> eth0:1 vip setup (OK so it's enp0s25 -> enp0s25:1) and >> a restarting of NetworkManager shows no new virtual interface. >> >> >> -- >> >> -- >> James P. Kinney III >> >> Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you >> gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own >> tail. It won't fatten the dog. >> - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain >> >> * http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ >> * >> >> >> >> Athena?, Created for the Cause? >> >> Making a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Cancer >> >> _________________________________________________________ >> >> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged >> >> or confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended >> >> recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, >> >> copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information >> >> is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic >> >> transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that >> >> you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> >> > > > -- > -- > James P. Kinney III > > Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain > at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. > It won't fatten the dog. > - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain > > > *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ > * > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Tue Sep 30 15:02:25 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 15:02:25 -0400 Subject: [ale] Something faster than X-Windows but more secure than VNC server? In-Reply-To: <4d7001d3-97f0-44d0-a5a5-d329d3093786@email.android.com> References: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9ED18B9@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> <4d7001d3-97f0-44d0-a5a5-d329d3093786@email.android.com> Message-ID: If both ends are *nix, look at X2GO. It's an easier freenx than, um, freenx. good for single connections. Not tabbed like remmina. (doesn't crash as often as remmina either :-) On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 1:43 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > Freenx. Uses a ssh tunnel by default and is at least one, if not two > orders of magnitude faster than vnc. Think usable X desktop over dialup. > > On September 30, 2014 1:39:36 PM EDT, "Lightner, Jeff" < > JLightner at dsservices.com> wrote: > >> Basic question: >> >> Can anyone suggest something faster than X-Windows but more secure than >> VNC server? >> >> >> >> Details: >> >> We have applications that run as X applications. The vendor is used to >> running this in VNC Server but that isn?t very secure. >> >> >> >> We instead gave X access on MS-Windows desktops using Exceed or Cygwin/X >> and the applications are exported back to the users? desktop. Since we?re >> doing this via ssh X tunneling it is encrypted. >> >> >> >> The users continually complain that this is too slow for their needs. >> We did initially give a single VPN session access to a remote consultant >> using VNC because it was clearly too slow going over the multiple hops it >> took to him in Pennsylvania. >> >> >> >> Now I?m being asked to either turn on VNC Server for the users to access >> internally or propose an alternative solution. >> >> >> >> Is there such a thing as a host based service like VNC Server but that >> makes an encrypted connection to the users? desktop so that only the >> display is being sent encrypted rather than having to draw on the desktop. >> Is there a way to make the VNC connection encrypted? >> >> >> >> *Jeffrey C. Lightner* >> >> *Sr. UNIX Administrator* >> >> >> >> DS Services of America, Inc. >> >> 5660 New Northside Drive NW >> >> Suite *250* >> >> Atlanta, GA 30328 >> >> >> >> P: *678-486-3516 <678-486-3516>* >> >> C: *678-772-0018 <678-772-0018>* >> >> F: *678-460-3603 <678-460-3603>* >> >> E: *jlightner at dsservices.com * >> >> >> >> >> >> Athena?, Created for the Cause? >> >> Making a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Cancer >> >> _________________________________________________________ >> >> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged >> >> or confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended >> >> recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, >> >> copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information >> >> is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic >> >> transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that >> >> you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you. >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Ale mailing list >> Ale at ale.org >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >> >> > -- > Jim Kinney > Linux Systems Analyst > Physicist/Brewer > http://jimkinney.us > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > > -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JLightner at dsservices.com Tue Sep 30 15:08:19 2014 From: JLightner at dsservices.com (Lightner, Jeff) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 19:08:19 +0000 Subject: [ale] Something faster than X-Windows but more secure than VNC server? In-Reply-To: References: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9ED18B9@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> <4d7001d3-97f0-44d0-a5a5-d329d3093786@email.android.com> Message-ID: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9ED19C3@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> Anyone have a good location to get FreeNX for RHEL6? It?s not in their repositories or the EPEL. I did find it at something called atrpms.net but haven?t used that one before. Anyone know if it is trustworthy? Or best place to get the source if not at atrpms.net? Also where do I get the Windows 7 client? Jeffrey C. Lightner Sr. UNIX Administrator DS Services of America, Inc. 5660 New Northside Drive NW Suite 250 Atlanta, GA 30328 P: 678-486-3516 C: 678-772-0018 F: 678-460-3603 E: jlightner at dsservices.com From: Jim Kinney [mailto:jim.kinney at gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 3:02 PM To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts Cc: Lightner, Jeff Subject: Re: [ale] Something faster than X-Windows but more secure than VNC server? If both ends are *nix, look at X2GO. It's an easier freenx than, um, freenx. good for single connections. Not tabbed like remmina. (doesn't crash as often as remmina either :-) On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 1:43 PM, Jim Kinney > wrote: Freenx. Uses a ssh tunnel by default and is at least one, if not two orders of magnitude faster than vnc. Think usable X desktop over dialup. On September 30, 2014 1:39:36 PM EDT, "Lightner, Jeff" > wrote: Basic question: Can anyone suggest something faster than X-Windows but more secure than VNC server? Details: We have applications that run as X applications. The vendor is used to running this in VNC Server but that isn?t very secure. We instead gave X access on MS-Windows desktops using Exceed or Cygwin/X and the applications are exported back to the users? desktop. Since we?re doing this via ssh X tunneling it is encrypted. The users continually complain that this is too slow for their needs. We did initially give a single VPN session access to a remote consultant using VNC because it was clearly too slow going over the multiple hops it took to him in Pennsylvania. Now I?m being asked to either turn on VNC Server for the users to access internally or propose an alternative solution. Is there such a thing as a host based service like VNC Server but that makes an encrypted connection to the users? desktop so that only the display is being sent encrypted rather than having to draw on the desktop. Is there a way to make the VNC connection encrypted? Jeffrey C. Lightner Sr. UNIX Administrator DS Services of America, Inc. 5660 New Northside Drive NW Suite 250 Atlanta, GA 30328 P: 678-486-3516 C: 678-772-0018 F: 678-460-3603 E: jlightner at dsservices.com Athena?, Created for the Cause? Making a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Cancer _________________________________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged or confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you. ________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -- Jim Kinney Linux Systems Analyst Physicist/Brewer http://jimkinney.us _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.kinney at gmail.com Tue Sep 30 15:08:55 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 15:08:55 -0400 Subject: [ale] Remmina and RHEL/CentOS 7 rpms Message-ID: as per usual, rpm are not available for a RHEL version of remmina. HOWEVER a grab of the latest src.rpm from a Fedora 19 repo and subsequent install of the following packages will allow a solid build for RHEL7 (using it now): libXcomposite-devel-0.4.4-4.1.el7.x86_64 libXinerama-devel-1.1.3-2.1.el7.x86_64 atk-devel-2.8.0-4.el7.x86_64 avahi-devel-0.6.31-13.el7.x86_64 libXi-devel-1.7.2-2.1.el7.x86_64 libXcursor-devel-1.1.14-2.1.el7.x86_64 libXrandr-devel-1.4.1-2.1.el7.x86_64 gdk-pixbuf2-devel-2.28.2-4.el7.x86_64 avahi-glib-devel-0.6.31-13.el7.x86_64 libgpg-error-devel-1.12-3.el7.x86_64 at-spi2-atk-devel-2.8.1-4.el7.x86_64 ncurses-devel-5.9-13.20130511.el7.x86_64 lzo-minilzo-2.06-6.el7_0.2.x86_64 libvncserver-0.9.9-9.el7.x86_64 libicu-devel-50.1.2-11.el7.x86_64 harfbuzz-devel-0.9.20-3.el7.x86_64 avahi-ui-0.6.31-13.el7.x86_64 pixman-devel-0.32.4-3.el7.x86_64 cairo-devel-1.12.14-6.el7.x86_64 pango-devel-1.34.1-5.el7.x86_64 gtk2-devel-2.24.22-5.el7_0.1.x86_64 cairo-gobject-devel-1.12.14-6.el7.x86_64 gtk3-devel-3.8.8-5.el7.x86_64 avahi-ui-devel-0.6.31-13.el7.x86_64 vte3-devel-0.34.6-3.el7.x86_64 libvncserver-devel-0.9.9-9.el7.x86_64 libgcrypt-devel-1.5.3-4.el7.x86_64 dbus-devel-1.6.12-8.el7.x86_64 dbus-glib-devel-0.100-7.el7.x86_64 p11-kit-devel-0.18.7-4.el7.x86_64 vala-0.20.1-3.el7.x86_64 telepathy-glib-vala-0.20.4-5.el7.x86_64 gnutls-c++-3.1.18-9.el7_0.x86_64 libtasn1-devel-3.3-5.el7_0.x86_64 gnutls-devel-3.1.18-9.el7_0.x86_64 telepathy-glib-devel-0.20.4-5.el7.x86_64 cmake-2.8.11-4.el7.x86_64 libxkbfile-devel-1.0.8-5.el7.x86_64 freerdp-devel-1.0.2-5.el7.x86_64 libgnome-keyring-devel-3.8.0-3.el7.x86_64 libssh-0.6.3-1.el7.x86_64 libssh-devel-0.6.3-1.el7.x86_64 -- -- James P. Kinney III Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail. It won't fatten the dog. - Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain *http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/ * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jdp at algoloma.com Tue Sep 30 16:06:48 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 16:06:48 -0400 Subject: [ale] Something faster than X-Windows but more secure than VNC server? In-Reply-To: <4d7001d3-97f0-44d0-a5a5-d329d3093786@email.android.com> References: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9ED18B9@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> <4d7001d3-97f0-44d0-a5a5-d329d3093786@email.android.com> Message-ID: <542B0D58.3020600@algoloma.com> FreeNX seems dead. x2go is very similar - both NX and SSH - easier to setup and works well with recent releases. Of course, all of this assumes the app isn't video editing or high end graphics. For nominal office productivity stuff it works fine. Had to stop using freenx after Ubuntu 12.04. Switched to x2go with 14.04 and it works nicely. I miss the pre-shared ssh key from FreeNX, but normal end-user ssh-keys work for x2go. BTW - Loading linux software outside the package manager is to be avoided. This ain't windows and I doubt you want the problems caused by forcing old dependencies to be stuck in the package manager. On 09/30/2014 01:43 PM, Jim Kinney wrote: > Freenx. Uses a ssh tunnel by default and is at least one, if not two orders of > magnitude faster than vnc. Think usable X desktop over dialup. > > On September 30, 2014 1:39:36 PM EDT, "Lightner, Jeff" > wrote: > > Basic question: > > Can anyone suggest something faster than X-Windows but more secure than VNC > server? > > > > Details: > > We have applications that run as X applications. The vendor is used to > running this in VNC Server but that isn?t very secure. > > > > We instead gave X access on MS-Windows desktops using Exceed or Cygwin/X and > the applications are exported back to the users? desktop. Since we?re > doing this via ssh X tunneling it is encrypted. > > > > The users continually complain that this is too slow for their needs. We > did initially give a single VPN session access to a remote consultant using > VNC because it was clearly too slow going over the multiple hops it took to > him in Pennsylvania. > > > > Now I?m being asked to either turn on VNC Server for the users to access > internally or propose an alternative solution. > > > > Is there such a thing as a host based service like VNC Server but that makes > an encrypted connection to the users? desktop so that only the display is > being sent encrypted rather than having to draw on the desktop. Is there a > way to make the VNC connection encrypted? > > From jdp at algoloma.com Tue Sep 30 16:10:13 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 16:10:13 -0400 Subject: [ale] Something faster than X-Windows but more secure than VNC server? In-Reply-To: <20140930182053.GG1544@horkan.net> References: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9ED18B9@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> <20140930182053.GG1544@horkan.net> Message-ID: <542B0E25.6000909@algoloma.com> On 09/30/2014 02:20 PM, Horkan Smith wrote: > 3) As Jim mentioned, you could also try freenx; I need to spend more time trying that out myself. x2go or freenx feel about 2x-3x quicker than VNC or RDP. Plus both include ssh as part of the NX protocol. x2go sorta just works. Install the server, then install the client. Of course, there are limitations - NX clients aren't really working on tablets and big promises have been made for years without any results. Porting X/Windows to java much? From JLightner at dsservices.com Tue Sep 30 16:20:58 2014 From: JLightner at dsservices.com (Lightner, Jeff) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 20:20:58 +0000 Subject: [ale] Something faster than X-Windows but more secure than VNC server? In-Reply-To: <542B0E25.6000909@algoloma.com> References: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9ED18B9@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> <20140930182053.GG1544@horkan.net> <542B0E25.6000909@algoloma.com> Message-ID: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9ED1A77@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> I thought x2go was just for Linux servers and clients? I need a Windows 7 client to reach my RHEL 6.x server. Is there one that will talk to x2go? Some rpms are safe enough to install from 3rd parties but I don't make a habit of it. On the few occasions I do it I download the rpm rather than adding the repository to yum. That way I can control dependencies. Usually I prefer to download the source and compile/build it rather than getting prebuilt rpms even from mostly trusted locations. -----Original Message----- From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of JD Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 4:11 PM To: ale at ale.org Subject: Re: [ale] Something faster than X-Windows but more secure than VNC server? On 09/30/2014 02:20 PM, Horkan Smith wrote: > 3) As Jim mentioned, you could also try freenx; I need to spend more time trying that out myself. x2go or freenx feel about 2x-3x quicker than VNC or RDP. Plus both include ssh as part of the NX protocol. x2go sorta just works. Install the server, then install the client. Of course, there are limitations - NX clients aren't really working on tablets and big promises have been made for years without any results. Porting X/Windows to java much? _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo Athena(r), Created for the Cause(tm) Making a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Cancer __________________________________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged or confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you From JLightner at dsservices.com Tue Sep 30 16:29:20 2014 From: JLightner at dsservices.com (Lightner, Jeff) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 20:29:20 +0000 Subject: [ale] Something faster than X-Windows but more secure than VNC server? In-Reply-To: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9ED1A77@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> References: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9ED18B9@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> <20140930182053.GG1544@horkan.net> <542B0E25.6000909@algoloma.com> <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9ED1A77@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> Message-ID: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9ED1A94@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> OK I see there is a Windows client listed on the wiki. Investigating. The freeNX source I found at atrpms.net extracted files from 2007 so it does seem to be a tad dated. -----Original Message----- From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Lightner, Jeff Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 4:22 PM To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts Subject: Re: [ale] Something faster than X-Windows but more secure than VNC server? I thought x2go was just for Linux servers and clients? I need a Windows 7 client to reach my RHEL 6.x server. Is there one that will talk to x2go? Some rpms are safe enough to install from 3rd parties but I don't make a habit of it. On the few occasions I do it I download the rpm rather than adding the repository to yum. That way I can control dependencies. Usually I prefer to download the source and compile/build it rather than getting prebuilt rpms even from mostly trusted locations. -----Original Message----- From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of JD Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 4:11 PM To: ale at ale.org Subject: Re: [ale] Something faster than X-Windows but more secure than VNC server? On 09/30/2014 02:20 PM, Horkan Smith wrote: > 3) As Jim mentioned, you could also try freenx; I need to spend more time trying that out myself. x2go or freenx feel about 2x-3x quicker than VNC or RDP. Plus both include ssh as part of the NX protocol. x2go sorta just works. Install the server, then install the client. Of course, there are limitations - NX clients aren't really working on tablets and big promises have been made for years without any results. Porting X/Windows to java much? _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo Athena(r), Created for the Cause(tm) Making a Difference in the Fight Against Breast Cancer __________________________________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail may contain privileged or confidential information and is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please reply immediately to the sender that you have received the message in error, and delete it. Thank you _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo From jdp at algoloma.com Tue Sep 30 17:36:19 2014 From: jdp at algoloma.com (JD) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 17:36:19 -0400 Subject: [ale] Something faster than X-Windows but more secure than VNC server? In-Reply-To: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9ED1A77@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> References: <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9ED18B9@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> <20140930182053.GG1544@horkan.net> <542B0E25.6000909@algoloma.com> <040B89C8B1E1D945AE2700C511A039E9ED1A77@ATMEXDB04.dsw.net> Message-ID: <542B2253.3030306@algoloma.com> On 09/30/2014 04:20 PM, Lightner, Jeff wrote: > I thought x2go was just for Linux servers and clients? That is NOT correct. From allen at ua.edu Tue Sep 30 22:49:07 2014 From: allen at ua.edu (Beddingfield, Allen) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2014 02:49:07 +0000 Subject: [ale] SUSE "shellshock" patches for older releases now available Message-ID: FYI, SUSE has made available patches for the "shellshock" vulnerability - all the way back to SLES 9 SP4 and the original release of SLES 10. If you need a patch for an older SLES version, go here: https://download.suse.com/Download?buildid=nNXClbWqawg~ -- Allen Beddingfield Systems Engineer The University of Alabama From jim.kinney at gmail.com Tue Sep 30 23:30:11 2014 From: jim.kinney at gmail.com (Jim Kinney) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 23:30:11 -0400 Subject: [ale] SUSE "shellshock" patches for older releases now available In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: And Apple finally released their patch for the current and prior 2 versions. Newest version not released yet will get patched later. ?? On Sep 30, 2014 10:51 PM, "Beddingfield, Allen" wrote: > FYI, SUSE has made available patches for the "shellshock" vulnerability - > all the way back to SLES 9 SP4 and the original release of SLES 10. If you > need a patch for an older SLES version, go here: > > https://download.suse.com/Download?buildid=nNXClbWqawg~ > > -- > Allen Beddingfield > Systems Engineer > The University of Alabama > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale at ale.org > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: