[ale] [OT] Software and file formats for on-line/correspondence chemical education

Fri Jan 20 17:19:14 EST 2012

Hi

I used to teach chemistry. What file types are the students expected to 
use? Being a Windows shop I would expect them to use MSO. Whether they 
will use LaTex or Visio I do not know, I stopped before they widely 
known (about 6 years ago). Back when I was teaching students seemed 
receptive to OO, I would suggest LO now to avoid spending any money. 
Also, many chemistry majors have trouble drawing a straight line with a 
ruler.

Will they be modeling molecular structures, a good 3D package would be 
very helpful.

On 01/20/2012 03:04 PM, George Allen wrote:
> LaTeX had some Chemistry tools available.
>
> Examples:
> http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2010/12/08/typesetting-chemistry-in-latex/
> http://www.jkwchui.com/2010/03/writing-chemistry-with-latex-23/
>
> Although there is a bit of learning curve, LaTeX does have distros for
> *nix, Mac and Windows, and it's also standard use for Math/Physics
> journals, so it's good to learn for anyone pursuing a science
> education. Cost = FREE.
>
> The package you need:
> http://ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/chemstyle
>
> The software you need:
> Distros include:
> Win: miktex.org
> Linux: http://www.tug.org/texlive/
> Mac: http://www.tug.org/mactex/2011/
>
> On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 12:53 PM, Charles Shapiro
> <hooterpincher at gmail.com>  wrote:
>> Hmm.  The trouble with OO Draw et cetera is that they don't really
>> allow for version control, which I think is ultimately where you're
>> going.
>>
>> I'd recommend the GIMP ( http://www.gimp.org/ )  if it's really
>> important to keep everyting in one file. GIMP implements "layers", so
>> that you could have the drawing and then successive edits on top of
>> it, each encapsulated in a way that you could roll back or forward as
>> a unit.  The GIMP won't allow you to organize your edits
>> chronologically though.  That means you'll have to wrangle that part
>> of your requirements separately, by establishing a naming convention
>> or something.  Plus,  your students are going to have to learn a
>> (probably alien) software package.  The GIMP is available for all of
>> the major OSs, however, as is Open Office.
>>
>> Have you considered using an RCS for this?  Seems like it you had a
>> Subversion ( http://subversion.tigris.org/ ) repository set up
>> somewhere that your students could get to, they could just check their
>> assignments in, then you could edit them as you wish and check your
>> edits in on top of their original work.  That'd provide a really clear
>> trail of who did what when, and you could still be pretty agnostic
>> about what kinds of files you were handling.  There're even some
>> places on the web that'll manage the SVN repository for you I believe.
>>   The subset of subversion commands you really need to know to talk to
>> a repository is pretty small, and setting it up on winders is
>> relatively trivial.  Might be worth a look.
>>
>> -- CHS
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 11:56 AM, Wolf Halton<wolf.halton at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 10:20 AM, Tom Freeman<tfreeman at intel.digichem.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>> I have accepted the job of teaching an on-line chemistry course for majors
>>>> next fall, with the requirement that the course be written this spring.
>>>> I for see an issue which I could use a whole heaping bunch of help with,
>>>> specifically ensuring that the students engage in using/generating the
>>>> visual aspects of chemical "language" and formally engage in showing
>>>> (documenting and defending) numeric problem solving. I am not being paid
>>>> enough to accept just showing a picture to the student, and accepting a
>>>> multiple guess regurgitation. I expect details given without hints from
>>>> me.
>>>>
>>>> The education technology types at the school have ideas which partially
>>>> get the problem solved, if we only accept Windows on all sides. Since I
>>>> use Linux (Ubuntu and Fedora mostly), with a little Mac work to help my
>>>> own children, setting a requirement to use Microsoft products only
>>>> _really_ has my back up, and heels dug in. Plus, I need to avoid more cost
>>>> to the student, as it looks like budgeting for this course is potentially
>>>> headed north of $600. Achieving sufficient interactivity to accommodate
>>>> online office hours in Moodle using Eluminate is a real positive here.
>>>>
>>>> What then am I looking for? Software which reads/writes a useful,
>>>> well defined file format which will support a work flow pattern which I
>>>> will attempt to describe below. Obviously cross platform availability; at
>>>> least including Linux/Unix, Mac, and Windows having software available,
>>>> with IOS and Android availability a plus. I'm open to commercial software,
>>>> but in the interest of holding costs down and personal values, I really
>>>> want open-source, with zero-cost ("free beer?") running a close second.
>>>> Plus I want it robust as a get out, since the students I've had so far in
>>>> class can break just about anything just by walking past it.
>>>>
>>>> With respect to the work flow, the current idea is that the student will
>>>> perform some task any way that they can. Unless it is already in an
>>>> appropriate form, the student will then scan their work, and upload the
>>>> resulting file to me. Using a tablet&  stylus, I then annotate the
>>>> student's work with circles, arrows, and indications of doom and dispare,
>>>> followed by returning the file to the student. At which time the cycle
>>>> will repeat until exhaustion or learning occurs, or a grade is assigned.
>>>> If possible, and it may not be, within the file being transferred, I would
>>>> like to keep the individual entries separate, such that the teacher's
>>>> notes can be easily obscured in order to view just the student's work. (In
>>>> my seated classes, any work performed in red gets a zero, since _all_ my
>>>> comments/notes/grading gets done in red. As a result, both the student and
>>>> myself have a chance of determining got what right/wrong and where. I want
>>>> to retain this ability.)
>>>>
>>>> So far, I _think_ the Adobe pdf format has the capability to handle my
>>>> needs, but I haven't proven it by discovering which software used how will
>>>> cause this to happen, especially happen reliably.
>>>>
>>>> If anybody on this list can make sense of the above word salad and suggest
>>>> a possible solution approach, I'd love to hear it.
>>>>
>>>> I thank everybody here for the use of their bandwidth and their patience
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>>>
>>>
>>> What kind of thing are they doing?
>>> OpenOfficeDraw can let them make sketches
>>> Dia can let them make more organized diagrams (replaces visio)
>>> What MafiaSoft product are you attempting to substitute?
>>> --
>>> This Apt Has Super Cow Powers - http://sourcefreedom.com
>>> Advancing Libraries Together - http://LYRASIS.org
>>>
>>>
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-- 
Jay Lozier
jslozier at gmail.com