[ale] Fwd: Google and Oracle battle over the future of Android

Charles Shapiro hooterpincher at gmail.com
Fri Apr 20 09:54:38 EDT 2012

Stallman summed it up nicely way back in 2004 (
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/java-trap.html ).

On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 9:46 PM, Justin Goldberg <justgold79 at gmail.com> wrote:
> You can run Android apps on bluestack on windoze. Is that also in violation?
> On 4/19/12, Stephen Haywood <stephen at averagesecurityguy.info> wrote:
>> Google is heavy into python. I wonder if they could use python where they
>> would normally use java and then put in an interpreter that would allow
>> older apps to still run. May be way off base here so feel free to point and
>> laugh.
>> On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 11:30 AM, Jim Kinney <jim.kinney at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> More reasons to never use a language "owned" by a company and not a
>>> foundation.
>>> Having said that, I'm not sure I can adequately explain my thinking on the
>>> difference between a company and a foundation. It really more of an
>>> altruistic intent as a dividing line between the two in my mind; something
>>> created to solve a problem vs. something created to create a revenue
>>> stream. Not that either is exclusive of the other but the original intent
>>> seems to take dominance over time.
>>> Besides, starbucks can't make good java so why does oracle think they can
>>> do any better?
>>> On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 10:43 AM, Ron Frazier (ALE) <
>>> atllinuxenthinfo at techstarship.com> wrote:
>>>> **
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> This is from the AJUG group.  I thought you guys might like to see it.  I
>>>> hope Oracle doesn't kill the market for Java since I'm about to get
>>>> serious
>>>> about learning it.
>>>> Apologies for the HTML nature of the message if that causes anyone
>>>> problems.  That's the way it came into my mailbox.
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Ron
>>>> -------- Original Message --------  Subject: [ajug-members] Google and
>>>> Oracle battle over the future of Android  Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012
>>>> 15:55:49 +0000  From: Gabsaga Tata
>>>> <gabsaga.tata at simpaq.com><gabsaga.tata at simpaq.com>  Reply-To:
>>>> ajug-members at ajug.org  To: ajug-members at ajug.org
>>>>   http://money.cnn.com/2012/04/16/technology/google-oracle/index.htm
>>>>  Google and Oracle battle over the future of Android
>>>> By David Goldman <david.goldman at turner.com>
>>>> @CNNMoneyTech<https://twitter.com/intent/user?screen_name=cnnmoneytech>April
>>>> 17, 2012: 3:49 PM ET
>>>>  [image: Google CEO Larry Page (left) and Oracle CEO Larry Ellison will
>>>> testify against one another in the coming weeks.]
>>>> Google CEO Larry Page (left) and Oracle CEO Larry Ellison will testify
>>>> against one another in the coming weeks.
>>>>  NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- A landmark court battle between Google and
>>>> Oracle has begun -- and its result will shape the future of the Android
>>>> ecosystem fueling most of the world's smartphones.
>>>> Silicon Valley's power players are always in the throes of nasty patent
>>>> fights against each
>>>> other<http://us.mg4.mail.yahoo.com/2011/08/18/technology/patent_bubble/index.htm>,
>>>> but this one is especially potent. Oracle claims that Google's Android
>>>> violates two patents plus several copyrights that Oracle holds on its
>>>> Java
>>>> software, a ubiquitous programming language powering everything from
>>>> phones
>>>> to websites.
>>>>  Although both Java and Android are open-source
>>>> platforms<http://us.mg4.mail.yahoo.com/2010/08/13/technology/oracle_android/index.htm>--
>>>> neither Google (
>>>> GOOG<http://money.cnn.com/quote/quote.html?symb=GOOG&source=story_quote_link>,
>>>> Fortune
>>>> 500<http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2011/snapshots/11207.html?source=story_f500_link>)
>>>> nor Oracle
>>>> (ORCL<http://money.cnn.com/quote/quote.html?symb=ORCL&source=story_quote_link>,
>>>> Fortune
>>>> 500<http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2011/snapshots/3057.html?source=story_f500_link>)
>>>> generally charge for their use -- their licensing terms are complex and
>>>> precise. When Java creator Sun Microsystems (acquired by
>>>> Oracle<http://us.mg4.mail.yahoo.com/2009/04/20/technology/Oracle_Sun/index.htm>in
>>>> 2010) set Java loose as open-source software, it left significant limits
>>>> in place around the mobile version.
>>>> Companies building on top of Java's mobile platform typically pay to
>>>> license it. Google used an elaborate workaround and essentially built
>>>> its own
>>>> version<http://www.betaversion.org/%7Estefano/linotype/news/110/>of a key
>>>> system to avoid those licensing fees and restrictions.
>>>> Oracle cried foul and hauled Google off to court -- a move some expected
>>>> from the moment it agreed to buy Sun.
>>>> "During the integration meetings between Sun and Oracle where we were
>>>> being grilled about the patent situation between Sun and Google, we could
>>>> see the Oracle lawyer's eyes sparkle," James Gosling, one of Java's
>>>> original architects, wrote on his
>>>> blog<http://nighthacks.com/roller/jag/entry/the_shit_finally_hits_the>the
>>>> day the lawsuit was announced.
>>>> After 20 months of prep work and a blizzard of court documents, the trial
>>>> between the two tech titans kicked off Monday in San Francisco.
>>>> Google insists its approach to building Android -- now the most popular
>>>> smartphone platform in the
>>>> world<http://us.mg4.mail.yahoo.com/2011/03/07/technology/android/index.htm>--
>>>> did not infringe either Java's rules or Oracle's patents, and it thinks
>>>> Oracle's copyright claims are a sham. It called Oracle's arguments "a
>>>> classic attempt to improperly assert copyright over an idea rather than
>>>> expression."
>>>> But Oracle thinks it's got a smoking gun: An e-mail sent from Google
>>>> engineer Tim Lindholm to Android chief Andy Rubin just days before Oracle
>>>> filed its suit. Warned in advance by Oracle that it believed Google was
>>>> infringing its patents, Google asked Lindholm to investigate its options.
>>>> He didn't like any of them.
>>>> "What we've actually been asked to do [by CEO Larry Page and co-founder
>>>> Sergey Brin] is to investigate what technical alternatives exist to Java
>>>> for Android and Chrome," Lindholm wrote. "We've been over a bunch of
>>>> these,
>>>> and think they all suck. We conclude that we need to negotiate a license
>>>> for Java under the terms we need."
>>>> Google fought to keep that e-mail out of
>>>> bounds<http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.php?story=20120206194613886>,
>>>> but lost.
>>>> 0:00/3:33Patent baron Myhrvold defends the system
>>>> If its lawsuit is successful, Oracle could force Google to pay it tens of
>>>> millions of dollars in retroactive licensing fees and potentially
>>>> hundreds
>>>> of millions more in the future.
>>>> But this isn't simply a damages case. Oracle already makes plenty of
>>>> money. Adding to its stash would be a nice perk, but it's not the main
>>>> motive for its legal crusade.
>>>> Oracle is picking a fight with Google because it feels that Android is
>>>> threatening the Java platform it got as part of its blockbuster $7.4
>>>> billion Sun purchase. Android may be an off-shoot of Java, but its
>>>> interface and functionality is unique. Code written for Java is not
>>>> inherently compatible with Android -- and as Android grows, its version
>>>> of
>>>> Java threatens to become the dominant one.
>>>> Oracle doesn't want to kill Android, but it wants to force Google to play
>>>> by its rules and make Android compatible with the rest of Java.
>>>> That would be extremely difficult for Google and the Android community.
>>>> Each of the nearly 500,000 Android apps out there would have to be
>>>> rewritten or tweaked.
>>>> But for Oracle, it would be a coup. Developers would be able to write
>>>> apps around Java's programming interfaces that would also run seamlessly
>>>> on
>>>> Android devices.
>>>> "That would transcend whatever Google ultimately could pay Oracle," says
>>>> Florian Mueller, an independent intellectual property analyst and
>>>> consultant.
>>>> New technologies like HTML5 are already making Java less important on the
>>>> Web. Oracle wants to make sure it doesn't lose the rapidly growing mobile
>>>> market as well.
>>>> Whatever the outcome, don't expect a big decision any time soon.
>>>> With so much at stake, experts like Mueller think that this case will get
>>>> stuck in the courts for years. The two sides -- neither known for backing
>>>> away from a fight -- will most likely battle and appeal their way
>>>> straight
>>>> up to the Supreme Court. [image: To top of
>>>> page]<http://us.mg4.mail.yahoo.com/neo/#TOP>
>>>> First Published: April 17, 2012: 2:36 PM ET
>>>>  __._,_.___
>>>> --
>>>> (To whom it may concern.  My email address has changed.  Replying to
>>>> former
>>>> messages prior to 03/31/12 with my personal address will go to the wrong
>>>> address.  Please send all personal correspondence to the new address.)
>>>> (PS - If you email me and don't get a quick response, you might want to
>>>> call on the phone.  I get about 300 emails per day from alternate energy
>>>> mailing lists and such.  I don't always see new messages very quickly.)
>>>> Ron Frazier
>>>> 770-205-9422 (O)   Leave a message.
>>>> linuxdude AT techstarship.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> --
>>> --
>>> James P. Kinney III
>>> As long as the general population is passive, apathetic, diverted to
>>> consumerism or hatred of the vulnerable, then the powerful can do as they
>>> please, and those who survive will be left to contemplate the outcome.
>>> - *2011 Noam Chomsky
>>> http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/
>>> *
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>> --
>> Stephen Haywood
>> Information Security Consultant
>> T: @averagesecguy
>> W: averagesecurityguy.info
> --
> Justin Goldberg
> *justgold79 at gmail.com*
> (504) 208-1158
> http://gplus.to/goldberg
> http://twitter.com/justingoldberg
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