[ale] New Mailing List initiatives for ALE (last one, I promise)

[Jerald Sheets]

On Sep 28, 2006, at 6:46 AM, Dan Lambert wrote:
>
> This discussion is on the verge of driving good members off because of
> attitudes and inflammatory rhetoric.


Which attitude?  The "If absolutely anything at all changes, I'm  
taking my ball and going home" attitude?  Or the "Something has got  
to be done, or I'm taking my ball and going home" attitude?  I'm  
standing in a very rough location right now between opposing  
opinions.  That I have chosen to voice the "other than norm" opinion  
has met with resistance, sure.

What we have to realize, though, is there are clearly two very  
distinct camps with very distinct needs.  Inaction (i.e. doing  
nothing) will drive away a subset of users that have come here for  
help and either a) receive some with great difficulty of finding it,  
or b) get none with the added plus of being derided for asking simple  
questions (not my words).  Are we serving our purpose by doing  
nothing and letting this happen?  Action will drive away the other  
subset of long-time users, wanting nothing to change and if anyone  
wants to leave, then "good riddance".

Here is a great example.  James (the thread you replied to) came on  
here to give his two cents because he is waiting the outcome of this  
debate.  If things don't change, he *has* to leave because of the  
nature of this list's traffic.  It's just too much noise to signal to  
be of any regular, continual help.  He's a new linux admin, and was  
looking for a place to get help and guidance as he "comes on-line"  
with his new job.  However, for him,   It's just too much, and it's  
just too much off-topic. There are actually people attending meetings  
that were not aware there even *was* a list, and come to meetings  
because they would love to have a technical resource *THAT THIS LIST  
MOST CERTAINLY IS*, mind you, and there are people who just leave the  
list for the incredible volume of off-topic mail.

And if we're driving off the Chris Farrises, and newbies are scared  
to ask questions, and professionals won't touch us with a 10-foot  
pole; Are we still serving our purpose?  If everyone thinks we are,  
then so be it.  Are we truly a LUG doing it's job in the community,  
or are we doing more harm than good to the name of Linux?

I got involved more heavily with this group because my company uses  
Linux.  We wanted to give something back, have a place for the NW  
group to begin meeting again, and provide a forum/meeting place in  
the NW for this group to flourish.  I think we've done a good job in  
that a) there's a place, b) there's been regular, quality speakers,  
and c) there's been tasty snacks!  Our modus operandi has been one to  
NOT interfere in the management of the organization, but to let it  
"do it's thing" in the place we provided for it.  Through my  
involvement as host, I have been getting a ton of commentary  
regarding the list, and started an informal survey of my professional  
and casual acquaintances based on that feedback, and it seemed there  
should be something done, or at least considered to be done.  I  
fretted even coming here with this conversation and have not done so  
for over TWO MONTHS because I knew I'd get precisely the kind of  
response I got from Jim, James, and others and the tone that would  
accompany that response.  I've seen it in this list before, and the  
folks that were involved in that conversation then are gone.

***

I'm not insinuating we are or we are not doing our job as a list or a  
lug.  I am asking the questions so you can draw your own conclusions.

Rest assured that ultimately what will be done is exactly what the  
membership of this list wants.  If nothing, then so be it.  But when  
people leave, and some amazing technical resources begin to leave as  
well, we need to not just say "screw 'em", we need to understand that  
it is us, our collective attitude, and our collective posture that  
has run them off.

If the list is comfortable with that, let's not lie to ourselves...   
Let's understand that we have driven them off then let's drop the topic.

***

What I have now in my inbox is 64 messages.  Of these 65 messages,  
there are several public list messages, and several off-list  
messages.  Of the on-list messages, there is a good number of "I  
think something needs to be done, but moderation isn't the way to  
go".  There are a small number "no change" people, and there is an a  
few suggestions to help provide the low noise list some are looking for.

Just thoughts, all of it.  No action is being or has been taken.  Yet  
people are getting in a tizzy and dropping off-list EVEN THOUGH  
NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE OR DECIDED UPON AS OF YET.  (dam*ed if you do  
and dam*ed if you don't, eh?)


I am, however, done stating my position.  If it all falls by the  
wayside, so will the people in the wings waiting to see what  
happens.  So will volunteers, on and on.  I do hope we come to a  
solution that serves ALL of our little community, not just a few, and  
encourages those who have left to come back and new members to come  
and have a great resource to belong to.

--JMS