[ale] Mass Transit Solutions?
Jeff Hubbs
hbbs at comcast.net
Tue Jun 20 13:01:36 EDT 2006
But the Grand DARPA Challenge vehicles didn't have to be human-rated.
Think Surveyor vs. Apollo. :)
The kind of vehicular future shown in MINORITY REPORT - where cars work
more like elevators, at least in urban areas - are probably decades out.
James P. Kinney III wrote:
> On Tue, 2006-06-20 at 11:11 -0400, Charles Shapiro wrote:
>
>> Uh... And trackable by Law Enforcement Authorities. I'm _really_ not
>> sure about that. Part of the great thing about being outside an auto
>> is that my civil rights are preserved. I don't have to identify myself
>> to a policeman; a driver must display ID at all times. And what
>> happens when I'm on foot? Must I wear a special badge just to walk
>> around, lest I be run over? Foo. I already have to carry a badge for
>> work. One's enough.
>>
>
> To be honest, the only viable solution is a ramp up to a $10/gallon gas
> tax with all the $$ going to construct a viable mass transit system that
> everyone will WANT to use all the time because it better and faster than
> any alternative. The politicos and robber/barons at the top of
> socioeconomic pecking order will then just get bigger SUVs as the fuel
> cost is not an issue to them.
>
> As for the RFID tag, that was a bait. Sorry. IR sensors are very
> reliable and can "see" a human with no problem. Especially one building
> up a sweat on a bike! The only issue with IR for humans is at temps
> between 94F and 100F bodies are background noise. Bikes are easy to
> detect with metal detectors short range. Long range is too imprecise.
> Visible light image analysis for spatial proximity and relative motion
> is the best choice for detection of pedestrians and cyclists (and other
> road-crossing critters). It is, however, rather cpu intensive. I suspect
> that some specialized modifications to 3D game applications could be
> used to construct a virtual model for sensor warnings is a short route
> to functionality on this.
>
>> I personally myself think that mass transit offers far safer and
>> simpler solutions to this problem. But of course gas has to get to
>> $3.50 a gallon to convince the SUV drivers that they'll have to rub
>> elbows with peasants.
>>
>> -- CHS
>> (Who might be a peasant himself)
>>
>> On 6/20/06, James P. Kinney III <jkinney at localnetsolutions.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 2006-06-20 at 09:49 -0400, Charles Shapiro wrote:
>> > Uh, as a mostly pedestrian and bicyclist this scares me to
>> death.
>> >
>> > It's dangerous enough out there with the drunks and the
>> SUVs. Add
>> > trying to cross a street where a minor sensor failure can
>> kill you
>> > into the mix and it'll become pretty much impossible to move
>> around
>> > the city EXCEPT in an automobile.
>> >
>> > -- CHS
>>
>> So I guess the specs should include redundant sensors data.
>> Each vehicle
>> has its own set at the data is shared between nearby vehicles.
>>
>> Of course an RFID on the bike makes it quite visible as well.
>> >
>> >
>> > On 6/16/06, James P. Kinney III
>> <jkinney at localnetsolutions.com> wrote:
>> > So the big questions I have to pose is:
>> >
>> > What can be done about it that is financially
>> feasible,
>> > politically
>> > possible and technically available?
>> >
>> > Of course I have some thoughts on this. :)
>> >
>> > We already have an extensive network of asphalt.
>> Neighborhood
>> > associations have enough clout to kill off a rail
>> line in the
>> > areas
>> > where it is needed (Why has the Tucker Marta spur
>> never been
>> > built?).
>> > The Grand Darpa Challenge has demonstrated we
>> currently posses
>> > the
>> > technical ability to auto-navigate a car through
>> some of the
>> > worst
>> > terrain.
>> >
>> > Is it feasible to have current cars retro-fitted
>> with self-nav
>> > as an
>> > intermediate step to a purpose built light vehicle
>> with
>> > self-nav
>> > designed in?
>> >
>> > There are social issues with peoples current choice
>> of cars
>> > that can't
>> > be addressed with technology (Why do so many little,
>> tiny
>> > women drive
>> > gigantic 3 ton monsters like Chevy Suburbans north
>> of I-20?).
>> >
>> > My thinking on the self-nav is it could allow a
>> smoother
>> > traffic flow
>> > process that would be safer and much more fuel
>> efficient. Ad
>> > 60% of the
>> > work done by the engine is to simply move the air
>> out of the
>> > way,
>> > self-nav would allow cars to safely tail-gate
>> literally
>> > bumper-to-bumper
>> > and thus greatly reduce wind drag on the entire
>> mini-train.
>> >
>> > A second factor in this (long range proposal) would
>> be a super
>> > light
>> > weight, single commuter vehicle. Much of the mass of
>> the
>> > current vehicle
>> > design is involve in the safety of the passengers.
>> Let's face
>> > it, cars
>> > crash because drivers make mistakes. If the crash
>> likelihood
>> > is reduced
>> > by removing as much of the human error as
>> engineering
>> > possible, the
>> > overall mass of the car can be reduced dramatically
>> with
>> > tremendous
>> > efficiency results. Likewise, the reduction in size
>> increases
>> > the number
>> > of these vehicles that can be on the roads at any
>> given time
>> > (which
>> > extends the useful lifetime of the existing road
>> size and also
>> > reduces
>> > maintenance as the vehicles are lighter and thus
>> don't produce
>> > the wear
>> > on the roadway that the heavier ones do.)
>> >
>> > Of course, the nav systems would have to be fully
>> open source
>> > to ensure
>> > that the travel details of any one person are not
>> used
>> > nefariously. In
>> > fact, the entire traffic control system should be
>> fully open
>> > source to
>> > engender an enhanced trust of the system by the
>> population at
>> > large.
>> > Having a talking guvment head telling me "Of course
>> it's safe
>> > and
>> > secure" is rather pointless. Having 40-50 research
>> engineers
>> > jointly say
>> > it is means much more.
>> >
>> > More?
>> >
>> > On Fri, 2006-06-16 at 09:08 -0400, William Bagwell
>> wrote:
>> > > Catch up? The idiots should never have *abandoned*
>> in the
>> > 50s what had
>> > > existed in the 1930s! A bit before my time so I'm
>> not
>> > exactly sure when
>> > > they were first built, but depression era trolley
>> lines ran
>> > as far as
>> > > Marietta to the north and Stone Mountain to the
>> east.
>> > (Probably others
>> > > too.) Cheap, simple rail trolleys that cost a
>> nickel to
>> > ride... Or so I
>> > > have been told, I only remember the rotting
>> stations as a
>> > small child.
>> > >
>> > > Lingering bitterness over Atlanta killing the
>> trolley, was a
>> > primary reason
>> > > why Cobb county rejected joining Marta when it was
>> first
>> > proposed back in
>> > > the late 60s or early 70s.
>> > --
>> > James P. Kinney III \Changing the mobile
>> computing
>> > world/
>> > CEO & Director of Engineering \ one Linux
>> > user /
>> > Local Net Solutions,LLC \ at a
>> > time. /
>> >
>> 770-493-8244 \.___________________________./
>> > http://www.localnetsolutions.com
>> >
>> > GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III ( M.S .
>> Physics)
>> > <jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
>> > Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190
>> ADC3 829C
>> > 6CA7
>> >
>> >
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>> --
>> James P. Kinney III \Changing the mobile computing
>> world/
>> CEO & Director of Engineering \ one Linux
>> user /
>> Local Net Solutions,LLC \ at a
>> time. /
>> 770-493-8244 \.___________________________./
>> http://www.localnetsolutions.com
>>
>> GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S . Physics)
>> <jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
>> Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C
>> 6CA7
>>
>>
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>> =+xsb
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>>
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