From drifter at oppositelock.org  Sat Jan  1 00:00:27 2005
From: drifter at oppositelock.org (Sean Kilpatrick)
Date: Sat Jan  1 00:00:27 2005
Subject: [ale] Speakeasy ADSL for web/email server?
In-Reply-To: <20041231230528.GA11775@antichri.st>
References: <20041231230528.GA11775@antichri.st>
Message-ID: <200412312356.46406.drifter@oppositelock.org>

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Hash: SHA1

On Friday 31 December 2004 06:05 pm, George Carless wrote:
| First, and most important-- reliability.  What's Speakeasy's uptime 
| like?  Am I likely to find myself losing service on a routine basis?  I 
| don't absolutely need 5-9s kinds of levels of reliability (I mainly 
| provide service for myself, some friends, and a handful of low-paying 
| customers who, well, can deal with a little downtime every so often); 
| still, I wouldn't want to be in a situation where the connection would 
| flake out on a weekly, or even a monthly, basis.  So, for those of you 
| who do use Speakeasy (or others; I'd be open to suggestions), can you 
| give me some idea as to whether the reliability is there?


I have been with Speakeasy for several months now and the up time
has been excellent. They have taken the system down two or three
times for maintenance and have warned me in advance each time -- and
done the work between 2300 and 0500.  The only difficulty I have had
with Speakeasy is that every once in a while I will lose DNS access
for 5-15 minutes or so. This has happened maybe three or four times
in the past four months.

Sean

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From mpwright at speedfactory.net  Sat Jan  1 00:10:30 2005
From: mpwright at speedfactory.net (Mark Wright)
Date: Sat Jan  1 00:10:30 2005
Subject: [ale] New Topic
In-Reply-To: <2802c522041231063179e793e7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1104501681.31018.219.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
	<2802c522041231063179e793e7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <89E1AD4A-5BB2-11D9-AF5C-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>

I second the the nomination for babbling, incoherent, washed up PC  
promoter, ( I like using extreme language anyway ;-)

I learned a lot from Dvorak's Hardware Bible back in the eighties and  
when I discovered Macs I was disappointed by his attitude toward them.

The new press on Apple is right on.   I have been using a Ti Powerbook,  
(1 ghz G4 for non Macophiles) for over a year as my main ride.  I have  
seven Linux desktops at home (and no windows) but Apple goes to work  
with me.  I really think OSX is the best *nix OS I have ever used.  I  
used to use Virtual PC about six years ago to help my old Macs keep up  
albeit slowly but I don't need it anymore.

I can truly run any Linux app on my powerbook plus all the Apple stuff.  
  I use a python script to run rsync to back up to an external firewire  
disk.  I edit photos with the Gimp and edit .docs with Abiword.  When I  
need NT authentication for my browser I use Firefox not IE.  I prefer  
nmap to the few mac network exploration programs I use Kermit to do  
serial communications to oddball hardware I have to fix sometimes.   
(through USB!)

People still look at my "obsolete" Powerbook (new model out last year),  
and ooh and aah when I take it out.  It is exactly what I wish my Linux  
boxes were.

Mark

On Dec 31, 2004, at 9:31 AM, Jonathan Rickman wrote:

> On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 09:01:22 -0500, Christopher Fowler
> <cfowler at outpostsentinel.com> wrote:
>> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1745930,00.asp
>>
>> Read above article and discuss.  I've always wanted an iMac ever since
>> Jobs went to a UNIX platform.  I want a laptop that is created to run
>> UNIX not  UNIX that is massaged to run on a laptop.  My problem with
>> PC's is that there is always a piece of hardware not supported and
>> sometimes running Linux on them can cause issues.  But I just can not
>> get myself to spend that much on a laptop when I can buy a PC based
>> laptop that is extremely fast and has many benefits.
>
> Dvorak is a babbling, incoherent, washed up PC promoter who has been
> helping to perpetuate the idea that "no, this time it is really
> over...the mac is dying" for the last decade. Meanwhile Apple
> continues to sell more units every year. Now we have this idea that
> since their market share dropped a bit this year that it means fewer
> macs sold. Fraid not, Apple is selling more macs than ever. Now the
> scary part is that with the introduction of Tiger (OS 10.4) and Oracle
> 10g for OS X, the macs will become a serious contender in the
> enterprise market as soon as we start to see IBM (yes, IBM!) start
> offering support for them. The truth of the matter is that Apple, and
> the lowly Mac, are positioned to become a driving force in the
> computing industry again. It takes a while to draw all the lines that
> connect the dots, but the signs point to Apple becoming a serious
> player at home, work, and anywhere else silicon is used to process
> information. I'm not a big mac guy, but I've been playing with the
> Tiger beta for a few weeks now and I have been more impressed by this
> OS than I have ever been by anything done in lintel/wintel
> country...Solaris 10 included. How well it scales remains to be seen,
> but I suspect that somewhere deep inside an IBM facility there is a
> big pSeries machine running OS X (or at least Darwin) to investigate
> that very thing. Apple has the reputation for being overpriced, but
> before you convince yourself of that you should probably read this:
>
> http://osopinion.com/modules.php? 
> op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=3095&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0
>
> and this:
>
> http://osopinion.com/modules.php? 
> op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=3133&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0
>
> Now go on over to the Apple web site and price out 2 XServe G5 boxes
> maxed out on RAM and CPU with an XServe RAID box maxed out at 5.6 TB.
> Compare that to the best you can get from Dell. Hint: One will be 5
> figures, and the other 6. :)
>
> Apple has certainly got my attention, despite what Dvorak may say.
>
> --
> Jonathan
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Sat Jan  1 12:09:10 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Sat Jan  1 12:09:10 2005
Subject: [ale] New Topic
In-Reply-To: <89E1AD4A-5BB2-11D9-AF5C-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <mailman.34.1104599350.18563.ale@ale.org>

Third the motion.

I hope one day to be able to afford the Apple hardware.

I have HP's identical Intel analog to the 17" powerbook, and get a few "oohs
and ahhs" myself.  I run a few different flavors of Linux and a small
windows partition for SimCity.  (hey...at least I'm honest).

I bought this laptop for 2100.  The comparable MAC was 3100-3500 at the
time.  I just couldn't justify the extra $1000.  Is the Mac a better
machine?  Youbetcha.  Is the Mac a better OS?  Well....  Comparable to
Linux.  (sorry....  I have a G4 and still prefer Linux to OSX today)

My question is (and always has been) when will the hardware costs come down
to a point where buying the Mac laptops is as justifiable as buying the
Intel ones?  I just don't think the hardware +OSX warrants *SUCH* a huge
markup.  But, since Apple views themselves as "a hardware company", that's
where they believe their markup has to be to be successful.

I think Apple's key to success is releasing OSX on the Intel platform.  It
would be another heyday of development and a stronger viable alternative to
Windows in the market.  


(and my HP laptop is still for sale @ $1650 if anyone is interested...the
model is zd7020US)

Jerald M. Sheets jr.
Sr. UNIX Systems Administrator
McKesson, Inc.
(404) 293-8762
**********
>su -
Password:
# cat /dev/flood > /dev/earth
# rdev noah+beasts
# dd if=noah+beasts of=/dev/earth

 

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Mark
Wright
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 12:04 AM
To: Jonathan Rickman; Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] New Topic

I second the the nomination for babbling, incoherent, washed up PC promoter,
( I like using extreme language anyway ;-)

I learned a lot from Dvorak's Hardware Bible back in the eighties and when I
discovered Macs I was disappointed by his attitude toward them.

The new press on Apple is right on.   I have been using a Ti Powerbook,  
(1 ghz G4 for non Macophiles) for over a year as my main ride.  I have seven
Linux desktops at home (and no windows) but Apple goes to work with me.  I
really think OSX is the best *nix OS I have ever used.  I used to use
Virtual PC about six years ago to help my old Macs keep up albeit slowly but
I don't need it anymore.

I can truly run any Linux app on my powerbook plus all the Apple stuff.  
  I use a python script to run rsync to back up to an external firewire
disk.  I edit photos with the Gimp and edit .docs with Abiword.  When I need
NT authentication for my browser I use Firefox not IE.  I prefer nmap to the
few mac network exploration programs I use Kermit to do  
serial communications to oddball hardware I have to fix sometimes.   
(through USB!)

People still look at my "obsolete" Powerbook (new model out last year), and
ooh and aah when I take it out.  It is exactly what I wish my Linux boxes
were.

Mark

On Dec 31, 2004, at 9:31 AM, Jonathan Rickman wrote:

> On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 09:01:22 -0500, Christopher Fowler 
> <cfowler at outpostsentinel.com> wrote:
>> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1745930,00.asp
>>
>> Read above article and discuss.  I've always wanted an iMac ever 
>> since Jobs went to a UNIX platform.  I want a laptop that is created 
>> to run UNIX not  UNIX that is massaged to run on a laptop.  My 
>> problem with PC's is that there is always a piece of hardware not 
>> supported and sometimes running Linux on them can cause issues.  But 
>> I just can not get myself to spend that much on a laptop when I can 
>> buy a PC based laptop that is extremely fast and has many benefits.
>
> Dvorak is a babbling, incoherent, washed up PC promoter who has been 
> helping to perpetuate the idea that "no, this time it is really 
> over...the mac is dying" for the last decade. Meanwhile Apple 
> continues to sell more units every year. Now we have this idea that 
> since their market share dropped a bit this year that it means fewer 
> macs sold. Fraid not, Apple is selling more macs than ever. Now the 
> scary part is that with the introduction of Tiger (OS 10.4) and Oracle 
> 10g for OS X, the macs will become a serious contender in the 
> enterprise market as soon as we start to see IBM (yes, IBM!) start 
> offering support for them. The truth of the matter is that Apple, and 
> the lowly Mac, are positioned to become a driving force in the 
> computing industry again. It takes a while to draw all the lines that 
> connect the dots, but the signs point to Apple becoming a serious 
> player at home, work, and anywhere else silicon is used to process 
> information. I'm not a big mac guy, but I've been playing with the 
> Tiger beta for a few weeks now and I have been more impressed by this 
> OS than I have ever been by anything done in lintel/wintel 
> country...Solaris 10 included. How well it scales remains to be seen, 
> but I suspect that somewhere deep inside an IBM facility there is a 
> big pSeries machine running OS X (or at least Darwin) to investigate 
> that very thing. Apple has the reputation for being overpriced, but 
> before you convince yourself of that you should probably read this:
>
> http://osopinion.com/modules.php? 
> op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=3095&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0
>
> and this:
>
> http://osopinion.com/modules.php? 
> op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=3133&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0
>
> Now go on over to the Apple web site and price out 2 XServe G5 boxes 
> maxed out on RAM and CPU with an XServe RAID box maxed out at 5.6 TB.
> Compare that to the best you can get from Dell. Hint: One will be 5 
> figures, and the other 6. :)
>
> Apple has certainly got my attention, despite what Dvorak may say.
>
> --
> Jonathan
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>

_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

--
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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004
 

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From James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com  Sat Jan  1 13:41:03 2005
From: James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com (James Taylor)
Date: Sat Jan  1 13:41:03 2005
Subject: [ale] Speakeasy ADSL for web/email server?
Message-ID: <s1d6a77e.064@inet.eastcobbgroup.com>

I  used speakeasy for three years and only had two short planned outages
in the first year as a result of a POP move.
No other outages I was aware of afterward.

I'd recommend Novell NetMail for provisionaing an iSP class mail system.

It's not free ($15/mailbox list, normally at least a 20% less through a
retailer), but it has a slick web admin interface and good user self
administration for webemail (two different user configurable interfaces)
and pop3 and imap4 access available.
 
You can download a free 60-day trial at
http://www.novell.com/products/netmail/

disclaimer - I work for a Novell partner, but I've been runing it on
SuSE linux for a couple of years and It's worked quite well for me.

-jt

James Taylor
The East Cobb Group, Inc.
james.taylor at eastcobbgroup.com
678-697-9420

>>> kafka at antichri.st 12/31/04 6:05 PM >>>
Hi all,

I was wondering whether anyone might be able to give me a little advice 
on this:  I'm currently paying around $100/mo for a server at 1&1 (and 
I'm actually quite happy with them), plus an extra $60-odd/mo for my 
cable connection.  What I'm wondering is whether it might be advisable 
for me to switch to someone like Speakeasy with their 6.0/768 adsl 
package. 

This would give me better control over the server, including hands-on 
access to it (which is always nice) as well as greater flexibility (more

ips, more options in terms of what I might like to run, etc.); however, 
I'm a little concerned about two things: 

First, and most important-- reliability.  What's Speakeasy's uptime 
like?  Am I likely to find myself losing service on a routine basis?  I 
don't absolutely need 5-9s kinds of levels of reliability (I mainly 
provide service for myself, some friends, and a handful of low-paying 
customers who, well, can deal with a little downtime every so often); 
still, I wouldn't want to be in a situation where the connection would 
flake out on a weekly, or even a monthly, basis.  So, for those of you 
who do use Speakeasy (or others; I'd be open to suggestions), can you 
give me some idea as to whether the reliability is there?

Second, I do provide my users with access to their own email accounts 
etc. through Plesk.  I'm not overjoyed with Plesk from a security and 
administration standpoint, but on the other hand it does make things 
somewhat idiot-proof for my less technical users.  Now, I suppose I 
*could* buy plesk, since it's not all that expensive, but I just 
wondered whether there were any suitably polished alternatives to it.  
(I know about webmin, but it never seemed quite polished enough to offer

to non-techy customers)...

Thanks for any advice!
--George
--------------------------------------
George Carless ... kafka at antichri.st
Words are just dust in deserts of sound
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale




From aaron at pd.org  Sat Jan  1 21:25:12 2005
From: aaron at pd.org (aaron)
Date: Sat Jan  1 21:25:12 2005
Subject: [ale] New Topic
In-Reply-To: <89E1AD4A-5BB2-11D9-AF5C-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>
References: <1104501681.31018.219.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
	<2802c522041231063179e793e7@mail.gmail.com>
	<89E1AD4A-5BB2-11D9-AF5C-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <200501012212.40341.aaron@pd.org>

I think that many of the hundreds of millions of America Loving Liberals 
across the country would agree with Mark on the advantages of the OS [e]X 
generation of Macs .  ;-)

The revolution of OS [e]X has made Mac systems both unique and highly 
competitive in their merging of several factors and features from the 
computer market. Apple has leveraged their "user friendly" reputation, 
consistent user interface design, media production prowess and solid 
commercial recognition with the secure foundation of free *nix and user 
empowering (geek approved) access to Open Source software communities.

While the PPC Mac hardware may not be quite as "bleeding edge" or inexpensive 
as commodity x86 options, the tight integration of OS, core applications and 
media software with complex hardware and firmware components provides 
definite advantages in reliability and usability; with a Mac, when you plug 
things in they just work.

Apple is also making moves that minimize the cost and compatibility impacts 
arising from "custom hardware".  Where industry standards are consistent, 
well established and provide real cost advantages, Apple has been adopting 
commodity components and interfacing, from hard drives and memory to USB and 
PCI.   Likewise for their bundling of core *nix apps with OS[e]X, where CUPS, 
SAMBA and BASH are pre-installed stock components, and an integrated Xfree86 
environment is included on the system installation disks as a user install 
option.  The company has stayed very involved with industry standards 
development as well, having played a major role in creating the likes of 
IEEE-1394 [Firewire] and DVD file system specifications.

I've been happily running OS [e]X Mac's in my media production work 
environments for a couple of years now. After disappointing results in 
building myself a budget minded, commodity  x86 Linux system for media 
production, I scraped together the resources  to purchase an (1.25 ghz G4) 
eMac this past summer. The few complaints I have about today's Mac's mostly 
stem from Apple's (aka Steve Jobs') stubborn insistence on confusing user 
handicapping with "user friendly";  I''m sorry Steve, but shipping an OS[e]X 
Mac with a one button mouse is an unwelcome anachronism at best.

peace
(because the only secure nation is a nation at peace)
aaron



On Saturday 01 January 2005 05:03, Mark Wright wrote:
> I second the the nomination for babbling, incoherent, washed up PC  
> promoter, ( I like using extreme language anyway ;-)
> 
> I learned a lot from Dvorak's Hardware Bible back in the eighties and  
> when I discovered Macs I was disappointed by his attitude toward them.
> 
> The new press on Apple is right on.   I have been using a Ti Powerbook,  
> (1 ghz G4 for non Macophiles) for over a year as my main ride.  I have  
> seven Linux desktops at home (and no windows) but Apple goes to work  
> with me.  I really think OSX is the best *nix OS I have ever used.  I  
> used to use Virtual PC about six years ago to help my old Macs keep up  
> albeit slowly but I don't need it anymore.
> 
> I can truly run any Linux app on my powerbook plus all the Apple stuff.  
>   I use a python script to run rsync to back up to an external firewire  
> disk.  I edit photos with the Gimp and edit .docs with Abiword.  When I  
> need NT authentication for my browser I use Firefox not IE.  I prefer  
> nmap to the few mac network exploration programs I use Kermit to do  
> serial communications to oddball hardware I have to fix sometimes.   
> (through USB!)
> 
> People still look at my "obsolete" Powerbook (new model out last year),  
> and ooh and aah when I take it out.  It is exactly what I wish my Linux  
> boxes were.
> 
> Mark
> 


From brandon at geekrus.net  Sat Jan  1 23:39:19 2005
From: brandon at geekrus.net (Brandon Colbert)
Date: Sat Jan  1 23:39:19 2005
Subject: [ale] Hard Drive Size
Message-ID: <41D779ED.2020103@geekrus.net>

I am setting up Fedora Core 3 as a groupware server for 10 users. The 
server has 2x80 GB drives, but Linux only recognizes 76 GB. How can I 
get Linux to recognize the full 80 GB?


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Sat Jan  1 23:45:42 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Sat Jan  1 23:45:42 2005
Subject: [ale] Hard Drive Size
In-Reply-To: <41D779ED.2020103@geekrus.net>
Message-ID: <mailman.35.1104641142.18563.ale@ale.org>

That is indeed an oddity.

Is it possible the translation your BIOS has used is off a bit?

Also, are you using a default partitioning scheme, or are you using custom
partitioning via Disk Druid?

Jerald M. Sheets jr.
Sr. UNIX Systems Administrator
McKesson, Inc.
(404) 293-8762
**********
>su -
Password:
# cat /dev/flood > /dev/earth
# rdev noah+beasts
# dd if=noah+beasts of=/dev/earth

PGP Key: 0x6267F183

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GIT d+ s++: a C++++ UL++++ P++ L+++ E--- W++ N+ o-- K+ w-- 
O M+ V PS- PE++ Y+ PGP++ t++ 5++ X+ R* tv- b+ DI++++ D++ 
G+ e h---- r+++ y++++ 
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK----- 

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Brandon
Colbert
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 11:35 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: [ale] Hard Drive Size

I am setting up Fedora Core 3 as a groupware server for 10 users. The server
has 2x80 GB drives, but Linux only recognizes 76 GB. How can I get Linux to
recognize the full 80 GB?
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004
 

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004
 


From brandon at geekrus.net  Sun Jan  2 00:03:08 2005
From: brandon at geekrus.net (Brandon Colbert)
Date: Sun Jan  2 00:03:08 2005
Subject: [ale] Hard Drive Size
Message-ID: <41D77F72.3030901@geekrus.net>

Jerald Sheets wrote:

>That is indeed an oddity.
>
>Is it possible the translation your BIOS has used is off a bit?
>
>Also, are you using a default partitioning scheme, or are you using custom
>partitioning via Disk Druid?
>
>Jerald M. Sheets jr.
>Sr. UNIX Systems Administrator
>McKesson, Inc.
>(404) 293-8762
>**********
>  
>
> 
>
>  
>
I am using a custom partition. (LVM)


From kwc at TheWorld.com  Sun Jan  2 00:27:28 2005
From: kwc at TheWorld.com (Kenneth W Cochran)
Date: Sun Jan  2 00:27:28 2005
Subject: [ale] Hard Drive Size
Message-ID: <200501020508.AAA5482102@shell.TheWorld.com>

>Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2005 23:34:53 -0500
>From: Brandon Colbert <brandon at geekrus.net>
>To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org>
>Subject: [ale] Hard Drive Size
>
>I am setting up Fedora Core 3 as a groupware server for 10 users. The 
>server has 2x80 GB drives, but Linux only recognizes 76 GB. How can I 
>get Linux to recognize the full 80 GB?

It already does.  :)
This is a FAQ somewhere...  Drive manufacturers quote
their sizes in millions or billions of bytes (10^6 & 10^9
respectively).  Your OS uses 1048576 as "mega" (2^20) and
1073741824 (2^30) for "giga," thus "understating" the drive.
It's kinda misleading marketing-wise - they can quote bigger
numbers I guess.

-kc


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Sun Jan  2 01:12:06 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Sun Jan  2 01:12:06 2005
Subject: [ale] Hard Drive Size
In-Reply-To: <41D77F72.3030901@geekrus.net>
Message-ID: <mailman.36.1104646325.18563.ale@ale.org>

Well...  That's not entirely how that works.


First, you need to have 

/boot

At your size of choice.  (I use 256-512M)

Then, your swap @ roughly 512M.


Then, use LVM (Physical Volume in Redhat Vernacular, I believe...which isn't
exactly correct) as the custom type, filling to maximum allowable space.

This partition's size will be smaller usable space than you would expect
duse to reserved areas, journal tables, and a couple of JFS-style management
areas.

*within* the  PV area, then you can carve up to include all your regular /,
/home, /tmp, /var, etc. partitions.

You *will* lose some space, however that 4G does sound a bit high.  Perhaps
they call it 80G, but it's really 78.xxx  X 1024k   ??

Just wondering.

Jerald M. Sheets jr.
Sr. UNIX Systems Administrator
McKesson, Inc.
(404) 293-8762
**********
>su -
Password:
# cat /dev/flood > /dev/earth
# rdev noah+beasts
# dd if=noah+beasts of=/dev/earth

PGP Key: 0x6267F183

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GIT d+ s++: a C++++ UL++++ P++ L+++ E--- W++ N+ o-- K+ w-- 
O M+ V PS- PE++ Y+ PGP++ t++ 5++ X+ R* tv- b+ DI++++ D++ 
G+ e h---- r+++ y++++ 
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Brandon
Colbert
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 11:58 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] Hard Drive Size

Jerald Sheets wrote:

>That is indeed an oddity.
>
>Is it possible the translation your BIOS has used is off a bit?
>
>Also, are you using a default partitioning scheme, or are you using 
>custom partitioning via Disk Druid?
>
>Jerald M. Sheets jr.
>Sr. UNIX Systems Administrator
>McKesson, Inc.
>(404) 293-8762
>**********
>  
>
> 
>
>  
>
I am using a custom partition. (LVM)
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004
 

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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004
 


From mike at tyderia.net  Sun Jan  2 01:50:05 2005
From: mike at tyderia.net (Mike Murphy)
Date: Sun Jan  2 01:50:05 2005
Subject: [ale] Hard Drive Size
In-Reply-To: <41D77F72.3030901@geekrus.net>
References: <41D77F72.3030901@geekrus.net>
Message-ID: <41D79060.7040305@tyderia.net>

my guess: that's your disks formatted and partitioned size. There are 2 
issues here:

1. harddrive manufacturers don't count data space the same way everyone 
else does. To a harddrive manufacturer, 1 gigabyte is literally 1000 
megabytes, not what it should be, 1024 megabytes. So the actual 
available space on the disk come out being a little less than what its 
advertised as being.

2. There is overhead involved in formatting/partitioning a drive, which 
eats a little space. The full explanation for this is somewhat lengthy 
and technical, but suffice it to say, in order for you operating system 
of choice (by way of the cpu, the ide/scsi/sata controller, etc) to be 
able to read and write the disk, some of it has to be reserved for 
purposes other than storing data (there is also some redundancy built in 
here.

So, for instance, I have a couple of "30 gigabyte" drives in my machine 
at home, but after formatting, etc. they have 28G useable (actually, 
about 28,800,000 k, give or take, and one is a little different from the 
other). In my experience, 76G sounds about right for an "80 gigabyte" 
hard drive.

Mike


Brandon Colbert wrote:
> Jerald Sheets wrote:
> 
>> That is indeed an oddity.
>>
>> Is it possible the translation your BIOS has used is off a bit?
>>
>> Also, are you using a default partitioning scheme, or are you using 
>> custom
>> partitioning via Disk Druid?
>>
>> Jerald M. Sheets jr.
>> Sr. UNIX Systems Administrator
>> McKesson, Inc.
>> (404) 293-8762
>> **********
>>  
>>
>>
>>
>>  
>>
> I am using a custom partition. (LVM)
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

-- 

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Mike Murphy
781 Inman Mews Drive Atlanta GA 30307
Landline: 404-653-1070
Mobile: 404-545-6234
Email: mike at tyderia.net
AIM: mmichael453
ICBM: 33:45:14.0584N  84:21:43.038W
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sun Jan  2 03:52:18 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sun Jan  2 03:52:18 2005
Subject: [ale] New Topic
In-Reply-To: <200501012212.40341.aaron@pd.org>
References: <1104501681.31018.219.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
	<2802c522041231063179e793e7@mail.gmail.com>
	<89E1AD4A-5BB2-11D9-AF5C-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>
	<200501012212.40341.aaron@pd.org>
Message-ID: <1104655693.8798.9.camel@blue>

On Sat, 2005-01-01 at 22:12 +0000, aaron wrote:
> I think that many of the hundreds of millions of America Loving Liberals 
> across the country would agree with Mark on the advantages of the OS [e]X 
> generation of Macs .  ;-)

Now, if they would just vote....  ;-)  Loving plastic PCs is a universal
tradition, loving country takes effort.  :-)

I too love MACs, and have been considering a (more than iPod) purchase
for some time now.  One of the things that holds me back is the lack of
hardware flexibility that exists in the Wintel arena.

I'll dive in the Apple pool, when Apple opens up their gates (designs)
to compatibility.  Until then there are just too few options.  Sure
things just work, you are just too limited in the things you can do.

BTW, I wonder if there are any H1B workers at Apple.

-Jim P.


 


From sergio at turbocorp.com  Sun Jan  2 11:28:26 2005
From: sergio at turbocorp.com (Sergio Chaves)
Date: Sun Jan  2 11:28:26 2005
Subject: [ale] New Topic
References: <1104501681.31018.219.camel@linux.linxdev.com>	<2802c522041231063179e793e7@mail.gmail.com>	<89E1AD4A-5BB2-11D9-AF5C-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>	<200501012212.40341.aaron@pd.org>
	<1104655693.8798.9.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <41D82036.7000607@turbocorp.com>

You are evil... :-)

Jim Popovitch wrote:

>On Sat, 2005-01-01 at 22:12 +0000, aaron wrote:
>  
>
>>I think that many of the hundreds of millions of America Loving Liberals 
>>across the country would agree with Mark on the advantages of the OS [e]X 
>>generation of Macs .  ;-)
>>    
>>
>
>Now, if they would just vote....  ;-)  Loving plastic PCs is a universal
>tradition, loving country takes effort.  :-)
>
>I too love MACs, and have been considering a (more than iPod) purchase
>for some time now.  One of the things that holds me back is the lack of
>hardware flexibility that exists in the Wintel arena.
>
>I'll dive in the Apple pool, when Apple opens up their gates (designs)
>to compatibility.  Until then there are just too few options.  Sure
>things just work, you are just too limited in the things you can do.
>
>BTW, I wonder if there are any H1B workers at Apple.
>
>-Jim P.
>
>
> 
>
>_______________________________________________
>Ale mailing list
>Ale at ale.org
>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
>  
>

-- 
  ?v?          Sergio Chaves            ?v?
 /(_)\       www.turbocorp.com         /(_)\   
  ^ ^    Enhanced Solutions Computing   ^ ^
               770.532.2239 
             Linux User #221305




From kafka at antichri.st  Sun Jan  2 12:18:32 2005
From: kafka at antichri.st (George Carless)
Date: Sun Jan  2 12:18:32 2005
Subject: [ale] Speakeasy ADSL for web/email server?
In-Reply-To: <1104535495.4578.11.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>
References: <20041231230528.GA11775@antichri.st>
	<1104535495.4578.11.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <20050102171445.GA4147@antichri.st>

Thanks very much to all who replied to this topic--I think I'm going to 
go ahead and switch over (gradually) to Speakeasy.  If there are any 
referral credits available to current Speakeasy customers, feel free to 
email me and I'll cite the person who emails me first as my referrer.

Cheers,
--George
--------------------------------------
George Carless ... kafka at antichri.st
Words are just dust in deserts of sound


From trey at fastmail.fm  Sun Jan  2 13:26:09 2005
From: trey at fastmail.fm (Trey Sizemore)
Date: Sun Jan  2 13:26:09 2005
Subject: [ale] SUSE 9.2 ISOs
Message-ID: <1104690249.860.6.camel@localhost>

When SUSE 9.1 came out, someone made the ISOs available on ftp.ale.org.
Would someone do the same for the 9.2 ISOs?

-- 
Cheers,
Trey
---

When you have robbed a man of everything, he is no longer in your power.
He is free again.
-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn 

1:22PM up 20:35, 0 users, load averages: 0.22, 0.66, 0.81 
FreeBSD salamander.thesizemores.net 5.3-RELEASE i386


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Sun Jan  2 14:50:46 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Sun Jan  2 14:50:46 2005
Subject: [ale] New Topic
In-Reply-To: <1104655693.8798.9.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <mailman.37.1104695445.18563.ale@ale.org>

 

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Jim
Popovitch
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 3:48 AM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] New Topic

> when Apple opens up their gates (designs) to compatibility


Anyone else see the obvious joke in this line, or is it just me?


:-D

Jerald M. Sheets jr.
Sr. UNIX Systems Administrator
McKesson, Inc.
(404) 293-8762
**********
>su -
Password:
# cat /dev/flood > /dev/earth
# rdev noah+beasts
# dd if=noah+beasts of=/dev/earth

PGP Key: 0x6267F183

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GIT d+ s++: a C++++ UL++++ P++ L+++ E--- W++ N+ o-- K+ w-- 
O M+ V PS- PE++ Y+ PGP++ t++ 5++ X+ R* tv- b+ DI++++ D++ 
G+ e h---- r+++ y++++ 
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004
 


From brandon at geekrus.net  Sun Jan  2 14:55:44 2005
From: brandon at geekrus.net (Brandon Colbert)
Date: Sun Jan  2 14:55:44 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro
Message-ID: <41D850B6.5090900@geekrus.net>

I am looking for a new distro to use. I am currently a 
redhat/fedora/mandrake fan, but I want to try something new. The distro 
has to give free updates, and can be used as a workstation and server. 
Can I get some feedback on these distro's: FreeBSD, Slackware, Debian, 
and Gentoo.


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Sun Jan  2 15:09:26 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Sun Jan  2 15:09:26 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro
In-Reply-To: <41D850B6.5090900@geekrus.net>
Message-ID: <mailman.38.1104696566.18563.ale@ale.org>

I ***LOOOOOOVE*** FreeBSD.

Very mature product.

--Jerald 

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Brandon
Colbert
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 2:51 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: [ale] Distro

I am looking for a new distro to use. I am currently a
redhat/fedora/mandrake fan, but I want to try something new. The distro has
to give free updates, and can be used as a workstation and server. 
Can I get some feedback on these distro's: FreeBSD, Slackware, Debian, and
Gentoo.
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004
 

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004
 


From fzamenski at voyager.net  Sun Jan  2 15:38:54 2005
From: fzamenski at voyager.net (fgz)
Date: Sun Jan  2 15:38:54 2005
Subject: [ale] New Topic
Message-ID: <200501022035.j02KZJcP039811@mail1.mx.voyager.net>


> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Jim
> Popovitch
> Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 3:48 AM
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [ale] New Topic
> 
> > when Apple opens up their gates (designs) to compatibility
> 
> 
> Anyone else see the obvious joke in this line, or is it just me?
> 

LOL.... yeah, now that you mention it! :)

> 
> :-D
> 
> Jerald M. Sheets jr.
> Sr. UNIX Systems Administrator
> McKesson, Inc.
> (404) 293-8762
> **********
> >su -
> Password:
> # cat /dev/flood > /dev/earth
> # rdev noah+beasts
> # dd if=noah+beasts of=/dev/earth
> 
> PGP Key: 0x6267F183
> 
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> Version: 3.12
> GIT d+ s++: a C++++ UL++++ P++ L+++ E--- W++ N+ o-- K+ w-- 
> O M+ V PS- PE++ Y+ PGP++ t++ 5++ X+ R* tv- b+ DI++++ D++ 
> G+ e h---- r+++ y++++ 
> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> 
> -- 
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004
>  
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 




From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Sun Jan  2 16:14:32 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Sun Jan  2 16:14:32 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro
In-Reply-To: <41D850B6.5090900@geekrus.net>
References: <41D850B6.5090900@geekrus.net>
Message-ID: <1104700254.4578.23.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>

On Sun, 2005-01-02 at 14:51, Brandon Colbert wrote:
> I am looking for a new distro to use. I am currently a 
> redhat/fedora/mandrake fan, but I want to try something new. The distro 
> has to give free updates, and can be used as a workstation and server. 
> Can I get some feedback on these distro's: FreeBSD, Slackware, Debian, 
> and Gentoo.

If you want to stay in the Linux realm, in order: Slackware, Debian.
Gentoo is solid but very much a PIA to set
up/buildallfromscratchevery#$%&ingtime. Slackware is very much like
old-world unix. Debian has a very solid support community but is slow on
the complete system upgrades. You have to run "testing" to get close to
the current stuff that Slackware/RedHat/et al are using. Is that a good
thing? Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

The big advantage to Slackware is it can be pared down to a very tiny
system with nothing in it but exactly what you want. The only
disadvantage to Slack is it has a much smaller community suppport base
than Debian. It's bigger than Gentoo, however :)

To sum up, both Slack and Debian are well suited for multi-purpose
desktop/server setups. Slack is a bit more geared toward servers and
Debian a bit more toward desktops. 

Gentoo would be good if you had a large number of identical machines to
install to. Do one big emerge/install to one machine and then dd the
drive around to the others. Or maybe rsync. Once you get past about 2
machines, Gentoo is way too slow to install with. Needs _fast_ hardware
for all that compilation.

Load 'em all and see which one you like most. That's the most fun of
Linux :)
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> !DSPAM:41d85113166892109164864!
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
-------------- next part --------------
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Type: application/pgp-signature
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Desc: This is a digitally signed message part



From aaron at pd.org  Sun Jan  2 16:28:15 2005
From: aaron at pd.org (aaron)
Date: Sun Jan  2 16:28:15 2005
Subject: [ale] New Topic (Apples, Oranges & Pods)
In-Reply-To: <1104655693.8798.9.camel@blue>
References: <1104501681.31018.219.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
	<200501012212.40341.aaron@pd.org> <1104655693.8798.9.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <200501021714.05527.aaron@pd.org>

On Sunday 02 January 2005 08:48, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> On Sat, 2005-01-01 at 22:12 +0000, aaron wrote:
> > I think that many of the hundreds of millions of America Loving Liberals 
> > across the country would agree with Mark on the advantages of the OS [e]X 
> > generation of Macs .  ;-)
> 
> Now, if they would just vote....  ;-)  Loving plastic PCs is a universal
> tradition, loving country takes effort.  :-)

The evidence is mounting that the question isn't one of their love,
commitment and voting, but of having their votes fairly and
accurately counted. Increasing unlikely in the face of privatized,
proprietary, secret election systems run by corporations whose
interests directly conflict with a legitimate democracy. :-(

> I too love MACs, and have been considering a (more than iPod) purchase
> for some time now.  One of the things that holds me back is the lack of
> hardware flexibility that exists in the Wintel arena.
> 
> I'll dive in the Apple pool, when Apple opens up their gates (designs)
> to compatibility.  Until then there are just too few options.  Sure
> things just work, you are just too limited in the things you can do.

Greater "compatibility" is Apple's rock and a hard place issue, especially 
knowing that the "compatible" arena is fully controlled by a monolithic, 
extortionist, thrice convicted criminal monopoly.  Unique system, interface 
and peripheral designs are Apple's point of differentiation (the iPod side 
line success perhaps being a case in point), and controlling them seems a 
necessity of survival, at least for the time being.

My own experience is that the current Mac designs have greatly increased 
commodity market compatibility compared to pre OS [e]X systems.  The design 
decisions with iMac and eMac "all in one" cases may take PCI add on cards out 
of the picture, but most of what common users need is already on board and 
the likely hard drive and peripheral additions are readily addressed with 
IEEE-1394 and USB.  If you plan on  and expanding via PCI cards you can 
always pony up for  a Dual G5 tower case!   ;-)
 
> BTW, I wonder if there are any H1B workers at Apple.
> -Jim P.

That was the OLD topic, this is the NEW topic, remember?  ;-)

peace
aaron 


From mattyml at bellsouth.net  Sun Jan  2 17:00:42 2005
From: mattyml at bellsouth.net (mattyml at bellsouth.net)
Date: Sun Jan  2 17:00:42 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro
In-Reply-To: <41D850B6.5090900@geekrus.net>
References: <41D850B6.5090900@geekrus.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.61.0501021656420.28609@winnie.matty.com>

On Sun, 2 Jan 2005, Brandon Colbert wrote:

> I am looking for a new distro to use. I am currently a redhat/fedora/mandrake 
> fan, but I want to try something new. The distro has to give free updates, 
> and can be used as a workstation and server. Can I get some feedback on these 
> distro's: FreeBSD, Slackware, Debian, and Gentoo.

I highly recommedn FreeBSD and OpenBSD. The ports collection rocks!

> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>

Ryan Matteson - UNIX Administrator | GPG ID: 92D5DFFF
Public Key: http://www.daemons.net/~matty/public_key.txt
Fingerprint = 4BEC 6145 30A6 BCE6 5602 FF11 4954 165D 92D5 DFFF


From mpwright at speedfactory.net  Sun Jan  2 17:24:01 2005
From: mpwright at speedfactory.net (Mark Wright)
Date: Sun Jan  2 17:24:01 2005
Subject: [ale] New Topic
In-Reply-To: <1104655693.8798.9.camel@blue>
References: <1104501681.31018.219.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
	<2802c522041231063179e793e7@mail.gmail.com>
	<89E1AD4A-5BB2-11D9-AF5C-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>
	<200501012212.40341.aaron@pd.org> <1104655693.8798.9.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <7ED39408-5D0C-11D9-AF5C-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>


On Jan 2, 2005, at 3:48 AM, Jim Popovitch wrote:

> On Sat, 2005-01-01 at 22:12 +0000, aaron wrote:
>> I think that many of the hundreds of millions of America Loving 
>> Liberals
>> across the country would agree with Mark on the advantages of the OS 
>> [e]X
>> generation of Macs .  ;-)
>
> Now, if they would just vote....  ;-)  Loving plastic PCs is a 
> universal
> tradition, loving country takes effort.  :-)
>
> I too love MACs, and have been considering a (more than iPod) purchase
> for some time now.  One of the things that holds me back is the lack of
> hardware flexibility that exists in the Wintel arena.

What do you mean by flexibility?  That is exactly why I have never 
bought an intel laptop.  Mac laptops have for me out lasted wintel 
laptops in long term usability two to one.  That, I attribute to 
flexible (supperior) design.  Since I discovered Linux I have been able 
to revive previously useless laptops but until Linux came of age your 
comment describes my feelings towards the Intel platform.


>
> I'll dive in the Apple pool, when Apple opens up their gates (designs)
> to compatibility.  Until then there are just too few options.  Sure
> things just work, you are just too limited in the things you can do.
>
> BTW, I wonder if there are any H1B workers at Apple.
>
> -Jim P.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>


From hbbs at comcast.net  Sun Jan  2 17:46:26 2005
From: hbbs at comcast.net (Jeff Hubbs)
Date: Sun Jan  2 17:46:26 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro
In-Reply-To: <1104700254.4578.23.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>
References: <41D850B6.5090900@geekrus.net>
	<1104700254.4578.23.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <1104705775.3068.207.camel@juanita>

On Sun, 2005-01-02 at 16:10, James P. Kinney III wrote:

> Gentoo would be good if you had a large number of identical machines to
> install to. Do one big emerge/install to one machine and then dd the
> drive around to the others. Or maybe rsync. Once you get past about 2
> machines, Gentoo is way too slow to install with. Needs _fast_ hardware
> for all that compilation.

Please understand that under Gentoo, the choice to compile everything is
just that - a choice.  You can install binaries and you won't hurt for
much.  You may have to compile a kernel; I'm not sure how how mandatory
that is.

Jeff


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sun Jan  2 18:17:51 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sun Jan  2 18:17:51 2005
Subject: [ale] New Topic
In-Reply-To: <7ED39408-5D0C-11D9-AF5C-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>
References: <1104501681.31018.219.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
	<2802c522041231063179e793e7@mail.gmail.com>
	<89E1AD4A-5BB2-11D9-AF5C-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>
	<200501012212.40341.aaron@pd.org> <1104655693.8798.9.camel@blue>
	<7ED39408-5D0C-11D9-AF5C-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <1104707636.10629.13.camel@blue>

On Sun, 2005-01-02 at 17:20 -0500, Mark Wright wrote:
> On Jan 2, 2005, at 3:48 AM, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> > I too love MACs, and have been considering a (more than iPod) purchase
> > for some time now.  One of the things that holds me back is the lack of
> > hardware flexibility that exists in the Wintel arena.
> 
> What do you mean by flexibility?  

Availability of a wide range of add-on hardware (i did say "hardware
flexibility" above), not just hardware blessed by Apple.  I was speaking
not just of Apple's laptop line, but more so regarding their G line
(specifically MIDI hardware, not to mention software).

> That is exactly why I have never bought an intel laptop.  Mac laptops have 
> for me out lasted wintel laptops in long term usability two to one.  
> That, I attribute to flexible (supperior) design.

Are you referring to tensile strength?

-Jim P.





From mpwright at speedfactory.net  Sun Jan  2 18:31:16 2005
From: mpwright at speedfactory.net (Mark Wright)
Date: Sun Jan  2 18:31:16 2005
Subject: [ale] New Topic
In-Reply-To: <1104707636.10629.13.camel@blue>
References: <1104501681.31018.219.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
	<2802c522041231063179e793e7@mail.gmail.com>
	<89E1AD4A-5BB2-11D9-AF5C-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>
	<200501012212.40341.aaron@pd.org> <1104655693.8798.9.camel@blue>
	<7ED39408-5D0C-11D9-AF5C-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>
	<1104707636.10629.13.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <E3F78EEE-5D15-11D9-AF5C-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>


On Jan 2, 2005, at 6:13 PM, Jim Popovitch wrote:

> On Sun, 2005-01-02 at 17:20 -0500, Mark Wright wrote:
>> On Jan 2, 2005, at 3:48 AM, Jim Popovitch wrote:
>>> I too love MACs, and have been considering a (more than iPod) 
>>> purchase
>>> for some time now.  One of the things that holds me back is the lack 
>>> of
>>> hardware flexibility that exists in the Wintel arena.
>>
>> What do you mean by flexibility?
>
> Availability of a wide range of add-on hardware (i did say "hardware
> flexibility" above), not just hardware blessed by Apple.  I was 
> speaking
> not just of Apple's laptop line, but more so regarding their G line
> (specifically MIDI hardware, not to mention software).

Just wondered.  When I ask most folks it usually comes down to one 
thing they do on wintel that they want to do exactly the same on Mac.  
Same issues I have when I recommend Linux to friends.  They come back 
with an Ultimate Puzzle game pack CD that if Linux  can't run it they 
are going back to windows 98.

>
>> That is exactly why I have never bought an intel laptop.  Mac laptops 
>> have
>> for me out lasted wintel laptops in long term usability two to one.
>> That, I attribute to flexible (supperior) design.
>
> Are you referring to tensile strength?

Nope,  I was guessing at your usage of the word and making my comment 
from that assumption.

>
> -Jim P.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sun Jan  2 19:26:50 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sun Jan  2 19:26:50 2005
Subject: [ale] New Topic
In-Reply-To: <E3F78EEE-5D15-11D9-AF5C-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>
References: <1104501681.31018.219.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
	<2802c522041231063179e793e7@mail.gmail.com>
	<89E1AD4A-5BB2-11D9-AF5C-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>
	<200501012212.40341.aaron@pd.org> <1104655693.8798.9.camel@blue>
	<7ED39408-5D0C-11D9-AF5C-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>
	<1104707636.10629.13.camel@blue>
	<E3F78EEE-5D15-11D9-AF5C-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <1104711743.11155.6.camel@blue>

On Sun, 2005-01-02 at 18:27 -0500, Mark Wright wrote:

> Just wondered.  When I ask most folks it usually comes down to one 
> thing they do on wintel that they want to do exactly the same on Mac.  
> Same issues I have when I recommend Linux to friends.  They come back 
> with an Ultimate Puzzle game pack CD that if Linux  can't run it they 
> are going back to windows 98.

I think the issue is two sided.  First, the software developers focus on
the biggest market and then they move on to their next venture.
Secondly, the OS providers (specifically Apple and Linux) could do MUCH
more to assist and educate ISVs.  Microsoft does very well with point
one, chiefly because they currently rule the biggest market.  Microsoft
does exceedingly well on the second point, chiefly because they desired
to rule the biggest market.

-Jim P.




From james at sumners.ath.cx  Sun Jan  2 20:09:38 2005
From: james at sumners.ath.cx (James Sumners)
Date: Sun Jan  2 20:09:38 2005
Subject: [ale] SUSE 9.2 ISOs
In-Reply-To: <1104690249.860.6.camel@localhost>
References: <1104690249.860.6.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <20050102200552.170fe1c8@sumners.ath.cx>

The 9.2 Personal edition is not out yet. No one knows if it ever will be but I
would assume so. The FTP version should be available January 10 though.

See:
ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/i386/9.2/README.txt
for more information.

On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 13:24:09 -0500
Trey Sizemore <trey at fastmail.fm> wrote:

> When SUSE 9.1 came out, someone made the ISOs available on ftp.ale.org.
> Would someone do the same for the 9.2 ISOs?
> 
> -- 
> Cheers,
> Trey
> ---
> 
> When you have robbed a man of everything, he is no longer in your power.
> He is free again.
> -- Alexander Solzhenitsyn 
> 
> 1:22PM up 20:35, 0 users, load averages: 0.22, 0.66, 0.81 
> FreeBSD salamander.thesizemores.net 5.3-RELEASE i386
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


-- 
James Sumners
http://ug.dyndns.org/~jsumners/

"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological
personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the
corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a
condition to which they are quickly addicted."

Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto)
CH:D 59


From james at sumners.ath.cx  Sun Jan  2 20:12:11 2005
From: james at sumners.ath.cx (James Sumners)
Date: Sun Jan  2 20:12:11 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro
In-Reply-To: <1104705775.3068.207.camel@juanita>
References: <41D850B6.5090900@geekrus.net>
	<1104700254.4578.23.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>
	<1104705775.3068.207.camel@juanita>
Message-ID: <20050102200809.2abf42b6@sumners.ath.cx>

Last time I gave Gentoo a shot the only binaries to be had were the initial base
system binaries. There were still undecided if they wanted to provide pre-built
binaries in the emerge repository. Has this changed and I not heard about it? If
not, I agree with the initial statement that Gentoo is more of a PIA than it is
useful.

On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 17:42:55 -0500
Jeff Hubbs <hbbs at comcast.net> wrote:

> Please understand that under Gentoo, the choice to compile everything is
> just that - a choice.  You can install binaries and you won't hurt for
> much.  You may have to compile a kernel; I'm not sure how how mandatory
> that is.

-- 
James Sumners
http://ug.dyndns.org/~jsumners/

"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological
personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the
corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a
condition to which they are quickly addicted."

Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto)
CH:D 59


From dcorbin at machturtle.com  Sun Jan  2 21:10:16 2005
From: dcorbin at machturtle.com (David Corbin)
Date: Sun Jan  2 21:10:16 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro
In-Reply-To: <20050102200809.2abf42b6@sumners.ath.cx>
References: <41D850B6.5090900@geekrus.net> <1104705775.3068.207.camel@juanita>
	<20050102200809.2abf42b6@sumners.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <200501022105.55661.dcorbin@machturtle.com>

On Sunday 02 January 2005 20:08, James Sumners wrote:
> Last time I gave Gentoo a shot the only binaries to be had were the initial
> base system binaries. There were still undecided if they wanted to provide
> pre-built binaries in the emerge repository. Has this changed and I not
> heard about it? If not, I agree with the initial statement that Gentoo is
> more of a PIA than it is useful.
>

Many of the larger apps are availabe as binary (openoffice and mozilla, I know 
for sure).  A quick search + grep ields about 80 binary packages (small 
number, granted). Also, there's support for having your own host of binary 
packages-- handy for large sites. 
> On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 17:42:55 -0500
>
> Jeff Hubbs <hbbs at comcast.net> wrote:
> > Please understand that under Gentoo, the choice to compile everything is
> > just that - a choice.  You can install binaries and you won't hurt for
> > much.  You may have to compile a kernel; I'm not sure how how mandatory
> > that is.


From trey at fastmail.fm  Sun Jan  2 21:11:57 2005
From: trey at fastmail.fm (Trey Sizemore)
Date: Sun Jan  2 21:11:57 2005
Subject: [ale] SUSE 9.2 ISOs
In-Reply-To: <20050102200552.170fe1c8@sumners.ath.cx>
References: <1104690249.860.6.camel@localhost>
	<20050102200552.170fe1c8@sumners.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <1104718196.806.19.camel@localhost>

On Sun, 2005-01-02 at 20:05 -0500, James Sumners wrote:
> The 9.2 Personal edition is not out yet. No one knows if it ever will be but I
> would assume so. The FTP version should be available January 10 though.
> 
> See:
> ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/i386/9.2/README.txt
> for more information.

Actually, it was the set of 9.1 Professional CDs that was posted on
ftp.ale.org, not Personal.

-- 
Cheers,
Trey
---

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers
exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here,
it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something
even more bizarre and inexplicable.

There is another which states that this has already happened."
-- Douglas Adams 

9:08PM up 7:16, 0 users, load averages: 1.21, 1.15, 1.09 
FreeBSD salamander.thesizemores.net 5.3-STABLE i386


From michaelstill at tmail.com  Sun Jan  2 21:19:20 2005
From: michaelstill at tmail.com (Michael Still)
Date: Sun Jan  2 21:19:20 2005
Subject: [ale] SUSE 9.2 ISOs
In-Reply-To: <1104718196.806.19.camel@localhost>
References: <1104690249.860.6.camel@localhost>
	<1104718196.806.19.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <1104718547.1FDF52D2@g29.dngr.org>

On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 9:10 pm, Trey Sizemore wrote:
> On Sun, 2005-01-02 at 20:05 -0500, James Sumners wrote:
>>  The 9.2 Personal edition is not out yet. No one knows if it ever will 
>> be but I
>>  would assume so. The FTP version should be available January 10 
>> though.
>>
>>  See:
>>  ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/i386/9.2/README.txt
>>  for more information.
>
> Actually, it was the set of 9.1 Professional CDs that was posted on
> ftp.ale.org, not Personal.
>

If someone can get me the isos then I can put them up so long as it 
jives with the license agreement.

-------------------------------------------------------
Michael Still (MichaelStill at tmail.com)
-------------------------------------------------------


From hbbs at comcast.net  Sun Jan  2 21:25:26 2005
From: hbbs at comcast.net (Jeff Hubbs)
Date: Sun Jan  2 21:25:26 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro
In-Reply-To: <20050102200809.2abf42b6@sumners.ath.cx>
References: <41D850B6.5090900@geekrus.net>
	<1104700254.4578.23.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>
	<1104705775.3068.207.camel@juanita>
	<20050102200809.2abf42b6@sumners.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <1104718916.3068.211.camel@juanita>

There is a lot of velocity in the Gentoo project; things have indeed
changed and are changing all the time.  If you haven't heard about it,
it's because you haven't followed the docs and the newsletters.  

I'm not 100% certain, but I believe you can set up a useful desktop
system entirely from CDs (see Gentoo Reference Platform).

Jeff

On Sun, 2005-01-02 at 20:08, James Sumners wrote:
> Last time I gave Gentoo a shot the only binaries to be had were the initial base
> system binaries. There were still undecided if they wanted to provide pre-built
> binaries in the emerge repository. Has this changed and I not heard about it? If
> not, I agree with the initial statement that Gentoo is more of a PIA than it is
> useful.
> 
> On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 17:42:55 -0500
> Jeff Hubbs <hbbs at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> > Please understand that under Gentoo, the choice to compile everything is
> > just that - a choice.  You can install binaries and you won't hurt for
> > much.  You may have to compile a kernel; I'm not sure how how mandatory
> > that is.


From james at sumners.ath.cx  Sun Jan  2 21:26:07 2005
From: james at sumners.ath.cx (James Sumners)
Date: Sun Jan  2 21:26:07 2005
Subject: [ale] SUSE 9.2 ISOs
In-Reply-To: <1104718196.806.19.camel@localhost>
References: <1104690249.860.6.camel@localhost>
	<20050102200552.170fe1c8@sumners.ath.cx>
	<1104718196.806.19.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <20050102212229.6f30c8f7@sumners.ath.cx>

Umm, are you sure? All I see is the personal ISO. I don't think that posting the
professional ISOs would jive to well with Novell.

On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 21:09:56 -0500
Trey Sizemore <trey at fastmail.fm> wrote:

> Actually, it was the set of 9.1 Professional CDs that was posted on
> ftp.ale.org, not Personal.

-- 
James Sumners
http://ug.dyndns.org/~jsumners/

"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological
personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the
corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a
condition to which they are quickly addicted."

Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto)
CH:D 59


From kwc at theworld.com  Sun Jan  2 21:34:31 2005
From: kwc at theworld.com (Kenneth W Cochran)
Date: Sun Jan  2 21:34:31 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro
References: <41D850B6.5090900@geekrus.net>
Message-ID: <200501030225.VAA5530566@shell.TheWorld.com>

Me too, specifically wrt FreeBSD.  The ports collection
is excellent.  Perhaps more important, *documentation*
is rock-solid.  Also, FreeBSD is "close" to Slackware in its
workings/innards, or rather, Slackware is considered the most
"bsd-like" of the Linux distros.  You can also build FreeBSD
completely from source (which is the "preferred" way of updating
I guess) and it's fast & easy, especially if you're comfortable
with systems stuff.

A couple of possible nits with *BSD, though, namely FreeBSD
(no experience with the others):

Java: currently broken (v1.3.1) and licensing prohibits binary
distribution of 1.4.x in FreeBSD, so it has to be built
from source; nice, but it takes time & space.  BSD's Linux
compatibility mode likely works around this.

Some (types of) applications aren't exactly "there" yet in
BSD, for example, MythTV.  Linux compatibility mode might work
around this as well, I dunno.  {shrug}

This is very YMMV but FreeBSD is rock-solid.

-kc

(Please pardon my top-posting.)

>Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2005 16:57:14 -0500 (EST)
>From: mattyml at bellsouth.net
>To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org>
>Subject: Re: [ale] Distro
>
>On Sun, 2 Jan 2005, Brandon Colbert wrote:
>
>> I am looking for a new distro to use. I am currently a redhat/fedora/mandrake 
>> fan, but I want to try something new. The distro has to give free updates, 
>> and can be used as a workstation and server. Can I get some feedback on these 
>> distro's: FreeBSD, Slackware, Debian, and Gentoo.
>
>I highly recommedn FreeBSD and OpenBSD. The ports collection rocks!
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ale mailing list
>> Ale at ale.org
>> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
>Ryan Matteson - UNIX Administrator | GPG ID: 92D5DFFF
>Public Key: http://www.daemons.net/~matty/public_key.txt
>Fingerprint = 4BEC 6145 30A6 BCE6 5602 FF11 4954 165D 92D5 DFFF


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Sun Jan  2 22:48:50 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Sun Jan  2 22:48:50 2005
Subject: [ale] SUSE 9.2 ISOs
In-Reply-To: <20050102212229.6f30c8f7@sumners.ath.cx>
References: <1104690249.860.6.camel@localhost>	<20050102200552.170fe1c8@sumners.ath.cx>	<1104718196.806.19.camel@localhost>
	<20050102212229.6f30c8f7@sumners.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <41D8BFCF.4050601@3times25.net>

James Sumners wrote:
> Umm, are you sure? All I see is the personal ISO. I don't think that
> posting the professional ISOs would jive to well with Novell.

I believe the license for both the personal and pro are the same.   You 
just pay more for the pro.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jloden at toughguy.net  Sun Jan  2 22:59:53 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Sun Jan  2 22:59:53 2005
Subject: [ale] OS Windows text editor for Unix files
In-Reply-To: <20041224203721.207F6298862@mx1.toughguy.net>
References: <20041224203721.207F6298862@mx1.toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <200501022250.55472.jloden@toughguy.net>

Just in case you didn't find something you like already, I recommend two 
choices.  If you are looking for basically notepad, but with the ability to 
read Unix files and show line numbers, I recommend Win32Pad - written in 
straight C with the Win32 API, fast, solid, small, and great. 
http://www.gena01.com/win32pad/

If you want a solid text editor with TONS of programmer friendly features 
(honestly, I've always wished it ran on Linux, I like it that much) and, of 
course, the ability to read those Unix files, check out Crimson Editor 
http://crimsoneditor.com/

Since I didn't see anyone else recommending them, I thought I'd toss them into 
the mix.  PFE is really good, but Win32Pad or Crimson Editor are at least 
equal to it, and they're still actively developed and supported.  Both 
editors I mentioned are free programs.
-Jay

> On Fri, 2004-12-24 at 09:41 +0100, Rene Rasmussen wrote:
> > On Friday 24 December 2004 04:57, John Mills wrote:
> > > > >>John Wells wrote:
> > > > >>>I'm looking for a free (as in speech, hopefully) text editor
> > > > >>>that can properly read and print these files on the windows
> > > > >>>side.  JEdit is the only free one that's done a good job
> > > > >>>recognizing the line feeds and  EOLs, but the printing is
> > > > >>> horrible.


From brandon at geekrus.net  Sun Jan  2 23:27:42 2005
From: brandon at geekrus.net (Brandon Colbert)
Date: Sun Jan  2 23:27:42 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
Message-ID: <41D8C8B6.8010907@geekrus.net>

The reason why I ask for feedback is I am setting up a groupware server 
for 10 people. I want to put in a server that is stable and includes 
free updates, but I can't decide on a new distro. Fedora/Redhat/Mandrake 
is not an option. I am looking into Debian. Is this a wise choice?


From james at sumners.ath.cx  Sun Jan  2 23:32:12 2005
From: james at sumners.ath.cx (James Sumners)
Date: Sun Jan  2 23:32:12 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <41D8C8B6.8010907@geekrus.net>
References: <41D8C8B6.8010907@geekrus.net>
Message-ID: <20050102232839.525c7e89@sumners.ath.cx>

Yes.

On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 23:23:18 -0500
Brandon Colbert <brandon at geekrus.net> wrote:

> The reason why I ask for feedback is I am setting up a groupware server 
> for 10 people. I want to put in a server that is stable and includes 
> free updates, but I can't decide on a new distro. Fedora/Redhat/Mandrake 
> is not an option. I am looking into Debian. Is this a wise choice?
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


-- 
James Sumners
http://ug.dyndns.org/~jsumners/

"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological
personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the
corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a
condition to which they are quickly addicted."

Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto)
CH:D 59


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Mon Jan  3 07:43:27 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Mon Jan  3 07:43:27 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <41D8C8B6.8010907@geekrus.net>
References: <41D8C8B6.8010907@geekrus.net>
Message-ID: <41D93CDE.3050104@3times25.net>

Brandon Colbert wrote:
> The reason why I ask for feedback is I am setting up a groupware server 
> for 10 people. I want to put in a server that is stable and includes 
> free updates, but I can't decide on a new distro. Fedora/Redhat/Mandrake 
> is not an option. I am looking into Debian. Is this a wise choice?

Why are Fedora and Mandrake not options?  What about SuSE?  All three 
provide free updates.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jrickman at gmail.com  Mon Jan  3 08:27:49 2005
From: jrickman at gmail.com (Jonathan Rickman)
Date: Mon Jan  3 08:27:49 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro
In-Reply-To: <200501030225.VAA5530566@shell.TheWorld.com>
References: <41D850B6.5090900@geekrus.net>
	<200501030225.VAA5530566@shell.TheWorld.com>
Message-ID: <2802c522050103052467fc1729@mail.gmail.com>

I'll break down the four mentioned as I see them.

Gentoo - Ok, so we can compile the whole distro...whooopedeeeedooooo!!! 

Debian - Has a package manager that is "different" but very useful.
Confusing release system. Tons of available software.

FreeBSD - not a linux distro. Tons of available software.

Slackware - Is basically FreeBSD's first cousin who had a kernel
transplant immediately after birth. It allows you to compile the whole
release from source (scripts in the source tree), has a package
manager that is "different" but very useful, and a very simple release
system that consists of a current dev branch and a release branch.
Tons of available software.

I think you can see where I'm headed...

--
Jonathan


From jrickman at gmail.com  Mon Jan  3 08:33:21 2005
From: jrickman at gmail.com (Jonathan Rickman)
Date: Mon Jan  3 08:33:21 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <41D8C8B6.8010907@geekrus.net>
References: <41D8C8B6.8010907@geekrus.net>
Message-ID: <2802c5220501030529759de25b@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 23:23:18 -0500, Brandon Colbert <brandon at geekrus.net> wrote:
> The reason why I ask for feedback is I am setting up a groupware server
> for 10 people. I want to put in a server that is stable and includes
> free updates, but I can't decide on a new distro. Fedora/Redhat/Mandrake
> is not an option. I am looking into Debian. Is this a wise choice?

That all depends on what groupware system you are looking at as well
as other factors related to the IT personnel and skillsets. I assume
this is a business, and not some wierd neighborhod WLAN thing.

--
Jonathan


From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Mon Jan  3 08:52:17 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Mon Jan  3 08:52:17 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro
In-Reply-To: <1104705775.3068.207.camel@juanita>
References: <41D850B6.5090900@geekrus.net>
	<1104700254.4578.23.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>
	<1104705775.3068.207.camel@juanita>
Message-ID: <1104760096.4578.34.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>

On Sun, 2005-01-02 at 17:42, Jeff Hubbs wrote:
> On Sun, 2005-01-02 at 16:10, James P. Kinney III wrote:
> 
> > Gentoo would be good if you had a large number of identical machines to
> > install to. Do one big emerge/install to one machine and then dd the
> > drive around to the others. Or maybe rsync. Once you get past about 2
> > machines, Gentoo is way too slow to install with. Needs _fast_ hardware
> > for all that compilation.
> 
> Please understand that under Gentoo, the choice to compile everything is
> just that - a choice.  You can install binaries and you won't hurt for
> much.  You may have to compile a kernel; I'm not sure how how mandatory
> that is.
> 
Gentoo has changed from the early days when I first tested it. 

> Jeff
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> !DSPAM:41d87922204011679828547!
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From dcorbin at enttek.com  Mon Jan  3 09:10:22 2005
From: dcorbin at enttek.com (David Corbin)
Date: Mon Jan  3 09:10:22 2005
Subject: [ale] GTK font sizes
Message-ID: <200501030859.17789.dcorbin@enttek.com>

Suddenly, all my GTK based applications are using "really small fonts".   
barley legible at the high-resolution that I run my KDE desktop at.  The only 
thing i did (honest) was to move my system from one building to another.  As 
I recall, all my fonts started coming up small, but I've changed my KDE 
settings, and now everything is reasonable except the fonts in GTK widgets.

Ideas?

David


From ppolstra at gmail.com  Mon Jan  3 10:07:26 2005
From: ppolstra at gmail.com (Philip Polstra)
Date: Mon Jan  3 10:07:26 2005
Subject: [ale] Configuring a bunch of workstations the same
Message-ID: <1beea75e05010307031724586e@mail.gmail.com>

Here is a question for the Linux gurus.  I am trying to upgrade 28
workstations to FC3 at the high school.  I also want to set them all
up to use NIS and have home directories NFS mounted, etc.  Is there an
easy way to have these installed with a default config so I don't have
to manually do all of this later?

I have installed linux over the network before, so that is a non-issue.


From brandon at geekrus.net  Mon Jan  3 10:25:16 2005
From: brandon at geekrus.net (Brandon Colbert)
Date: Mon Jan  3 10:25:16 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <41D93CDE.3050104@3times25.net>
References: <41D8C8B6.8010907@geekrus.net> <41D93CDE.3050104@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <41D962D4.3060406@geekrus.net>

Geoffrey wrote:

> Brandon Colbert wrote:
>
>> The reason why I ask for feedback is I am setting up a groupware 
>> server for 10 people. I want to put in a server that is stable and 
>> includes free updates, but I can't decide on a new distro. 
>> Fedora/Redhat/Mandrake is not an option. I am looking into Debian. Is 
>> this a wise choice?
>
>
> Why are Fedora and Mandrake not options?  What about SuSE?  All three 
> provide free updates.
>
I just wanted to use something new.


From tfreeman at intel.digichem.net  Mon Jan  3 10:37:11 2005
From: tfreeman at intel.digichem.net (tfreeman at intel.digichem.net)
Date: Mon Jan  3 10:37:11 2005
Subject: [ale] Configuring a bunch of workstations the same
In-Reply-To: <1beea75e05010307031724586e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0501031021120.30312-100000@intel.digichem.net>

On Mon, 3 Jan 2005, Philip Polstra wrote:

> Here is a question for the Linux gurus.  I am trying to upgrade 28
> workstations to FC3 at the high school.  I also want to set them all
> up to use NIS and have home directories NFS mounted, etc.  Is there an
> easy way to have these installed with a default config so I don't have
> to manually do all of this later?
> 
> I have installed linux over the network before, so that is a non-issue.

kickstart is your friend, I beleive. Never have used it personally, so I'm 
not being a whole lot of help here. Wish I could be more useful.

-- 
=============================================
If you think Education is expensive
Try Ignorance
                   Author Unknown
============================================


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Mon Jan  3 11:03:40 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Mon Jan  3 11:03:40 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <41D93CDE.3050104@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <mailman.39.1104768219.18563.ale@ale.org>

Yeah...  I don't get that either.  The most mature products on the planet
are not an option... 

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Geoffrey
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 7:39 AM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] Distro Reply

Brandon Colbert wrote:
> The reason why I ask for feedback is I am setting up a groupware 
> server for 10 people. I want to put in a server that is stable and 
> includes free updates, but I can't decide on a new distro. 
> Fedora/Redhat/Mandrake is not an option. I am looking into Debian. Is this
a wise choice?

Why are Fedora and Mandrake not options?  What about SuSE?  All three
provide free updates.

--
Until later, Geoffrey
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

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From jsheets at yahoo.com  Mon Jan  3 11:09:14 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Mon Jan  3 11:09:14 2005
Subject: [ale] Configuring a bunch of workstations the same
In-Reply-To: <1beea75e05010307031724586e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.40.1104768554.18563.ale@ale.org>

Yep.  Kickstart.

My beginner network install article can be found here:
http://servers.linux.com/article.pl?sid=03/11/26/039241&tid=87&tid=29&tid=42

That'll give you an overview for setting up the first part, the network
installation server.

To automate identical machine installs, however, you need to work on your
kickstart file.

That documentation is here:

http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-3-Manual/sysadmin-guide/c
h-kickstart2.html


Yes, it's for Enterprise, but the programs work identically, and it's a good
reference for the kickstart file:

http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-3-Manual/sysadmin-guide/s
1-kickstart2-file.html

You can also (in Fedora) use the kickstart applet to build a very generic,
very basic kickstart file.  Then you can use the reference to modify it to
suit.

I hope that helps!

Jerald M. Sheets jr.
Sr. UNIX Systems Administrator
McKesson, Inc.
(404) 293-8762
**********
>su -
Password:
# cat /dev/flood > /dev/earth
# rdev noah+beasts
# dd if=noah+beasts of=/dev/earth

PGP Key: 0x6267F183

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GIT d+ s++: a C++++ UL++++ P++ L+++ E--- W++ N+ o-- K+ w-- 
O M+ V PS- PE++ Y+ PGP++ t++ 5++ X+ R* tv- b+ DI++++ D++ 
G+ e h---- r+++ y++++ 
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK----- 

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Philip
Polstra
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 10:04 AM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: [ale] Configuring a bunch of workstations the same

Here is a question for the Linux gurus.  I am trying to upgrade 28
workstations to FC3 at the high school.  I also want to set them all up to
use NIS and have home directories NFS mounted, etc.  Is there an easy way to
have these installed with a default config so I don't have to manually do
all of this later?

I have installed linux over the network before, so that is a non-issue.
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004
 

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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004
 


From jpheale at LearnLink.Emory.Edu  Mon Jan  3 11:19:30 2005
From: jpheale at LearnLink.Emory.Edu (John P. Healey)
Date: Mon Jan  3 11:19:30 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <200501031600.j03G0OIg010511@desdemona.cc.emory.edu>
References: <200501031600.j03G0OIg010511@desdemona.cc.emory.edu>
Message-ID: <fc.00249f0f23107bce3b9aca000b4d0bd1.231085d3@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>

Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org> writes:
>Yeah...  I don't get that either.  The most mature products on the planet
>are not an option... 

He's probably looking to broaden his horizons and explore packaging systems
that aren't rpm based.  Also, I fail to see how Debian is any less mature than
redhat, mandrake, and fedora.

5265762e204a6f686e6e79204865616c6579


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Mon Jan  3 11:49:14 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Mon Jan  3 11:49:14 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <fc.00249f0f23107bce3b9aca000b4d0bd1.231085d3@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>
Message-ID: <mailman.41.1104770953.18563.ale@ale.org>

>From a business perspective, including support options, professional
development, training options, business and support indemnity...  SuSE,
Mandrake, RedHat, and similar companies are more mature products
*regardless* of the quality of the Debian system.  (which is on par with and
even exceeds the rest).  However, wen you're talking business, It's hard to
convince an IT manager of that fact.

Jerald M. Sheets jr.
Sr. UNIX Systems Administrator
McKesson, Inc.
(404) 293-8762
**********
>su -
Password:
# cat /dev/flood > /dev/earth
# rdev noah+beasts
# dd if=noah+beasts of=/dev/earth

PGP Key: 0x6267F183

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GIT d+ s++: a C++++ UL++++ P++ L+++ E--- W++ N+ o-- K+ w-- 
O M+ V PS- PE++ Y+ PGP++ t++ 5++ X+ R* tv- b+ DI++++ D++ 
G+ e h---- r+++ y++++ 
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK----- 

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of John P.
Healey
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 11:12 AM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] Distro Reply

Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org> writes:
>Yeah...  I don't get that either.  The most mature products on the 
>planet are not an option...

He's probably looking to broaden his horizons and explore packaging systems
that aren't rpm based.  Also, I fail to see how Debian is any less mature
than redhat, mandrake, and fedora.

5265762e204a6f686e6e79204865616c6579

_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004
 

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No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004
 


From barry at alltc.com  Mon Jan  3 12:15:34 2005
From: barry at alltc.com (Barry Hawkins)
Date: Mon Jan  3 12:15:34 2005
Subject: [ale] GTK font sizes
In-Reply-To: <200501030859.17789.dcorbin@enttek.com>
References: <200501030859.17789.dcorbin@enttek.com>
Message-ID: <41D97CD0.9070303@alltc.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

David Corbin wrote:
| Suddenly, all my GTK based applications are using "really small fonts".
| barley legible at the high-resolution that I run my KDE desktop at.
The only
| thing i did (honest) was to move my system from one building to
another.  As
| I recall, all my fonts started coming up small, but I've changed my KDE
| settings, and now everything is reasonable except the fonts in GTK
widgets.
|
| Ideas?
|
| David

David,
~    When I was still using KDE, my GTK fonts were all nutso like that,
too.  I mucked about with ~/.gtkrc and ~/.gtkrc-2.0 and things shaped
up.  When I switched to Gnome, I accepted the defaults to overwrite my
kludge of setting the aforementioned files.  My distro is Debian
unstable/sid on PowerPC.

Best wishes,
- --
Barry Hawkins
All Things Computed
site: www.alltc.com
weblog: www.yepthatsme.com

Registered Linux User #368650
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFB2XzP7bZ6kUftWZwRAhOGAKCgTL612e6jvyKN9zy8e4ue0x+94ACgz0zp
pUMR1j6/jG94vcXOWdd+jFM=
=Sgjb
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Mon Jan  3 12:43:34 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Mon Jan  3 12:43:34 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <41D962D4.3060406@geekrus.net>
References: <41D8C8B6.8010907@geekrus.net> <41D93CDE.3050104@3times25.net>
	<41D962D4.3060406@geekrus.net>
Message-ID: <41D98370.9080502@3times25.net>

Brandon Colbert wrote:
> Geoffrey wrote:
> 
>> Brandon Colbert wrote:
>>
>>> The reason why I ask for feedback is I am setting up a groupware 
>>> server for 10 people. I want to put in a server that is stable and 
>>> includes free updates, but I can't decide on a new distro. 
>>> Fedora/Redhat/Mandrake is not an option. I am looking into Debian. Is 
>>> this a wise choice?
>>
>>
>>
>> Why are Fedora and Mandrake not options?  What about SuSE?  All three 
>> provide free updates.
>>
> I just wanted to use something new.

New as in different from previous I assume.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Mon Jan  3 12:45:21 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Mon Jan  3 12:45:21 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <fc.00249f0f23107bce3b9aca000b4d0bd1.231085d3@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>
References: <200501031600.j03G0OIg010511@desdemona.cc.emory.edu>
	<fc.00249f0f23107bce3b9aca000b4d0bd1.231085d3@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>
Message-ID: <41D983E0.6090705@3times25.net>

John P. Healey wrote:
> Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org> writes:
> 
>>Yeah...  I don't get that either.  The most mature products on the planet
>>are not an option... 
> 
> 
> He's probably looking to broaden his horizons and explore packaging systems
> that aren't rpm based.  Also, I fail to see how Debian is any less mature than
> redhat, mandrake, and fedora.

Stable Debian running a 2.2 kernel.  To me, that is not mature, that is 
old.  Personal opinion.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jpheale at LearnLink.Emory.Edu  Mon Jan  3 12:55:50 2005
From: jpheale at LearnLink.Emory.Edu (John P. Healey)
Date: Mon Jan  3 12:55:50 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <41D983E0.6090705@3times25.net>
References: <200501031600.j03G0OIg010511@desdemona.cc.emory.edu> <	>
	<fc.00249f0f23107bce3b9aca000b4d0bd1.231085d3@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>
	<41D983E0.6090705@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <fc.00249f0f2310d4143b9aca000b4d0bd1.2310d457@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>

Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org> writes:
>Stable Debian running a 2.2 kernel.  To me, that is not mature, that is 
>old.  Personal opinion.

That's why debian supports apt pinning.  So that testing (or even unstable)
packages can be installed when the latest version is needed.

5265762e204a6f686e6e79204865616c6579


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jan  3 14:45:21 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon Jan  3 14:45:21 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <41D983E0.6090705@3times25.net>
References: <200501031600.j03G0OIg010511@desdemona.cc.emory.edu>
	<fc.00249f0f23107bce3b9aca000b4d0bd1.231085d3@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>
	<41D983E0.6090705@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <1104781281.2410.6.camel@blue>

On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 12:41 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:

> Stable Debian running a 2.2 kernel.  To me, that is not mature, that is 
> old.  Personal opinion.

Stable Debian's focus is stability, not freshness. (NOTE: Debian was
doing this long before RHEL started doing the same)

-Jim P.

  


From jrickman at gmail.com  Mon Jan  3 15:40:14 2005
From: jrickman at gmail.com (Jonathan Rickman)
Date: Mon Jan  3 15:40:14 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <1104781281.2410.6.camel@blue>
References: <200501031600.j03G0OIg010511@desdemona.cc.emory.edu>
	<fc.00249f0f23107bce3b9aca000b4d0bd1.231085d3@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>
	<41D983E0.6090705@3times25.net> <1104781281.2410.6.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <2802c522050103123355b0b48f@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 14:41:21 -0500, Jim Popovitch <jimpop at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Stable Debian's focus is stability, not freshness. (NOTE: Debian was
> doing this long before RHEL started doing the same)

So if we demand the ultimate in stability on windows systems, should
we all run NT4?

old != stable 

Personally, I find the 2.4 series to be significantly more stable than
the 2.2 series in just about every conceivable situation. Last time I
checked, RHEL was up to 2.4.9, so I'm afraid I don't understand that
comparison.

--
Jonathan


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jan  3 15:53:59 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon Jan  3 15:53:59 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <2802c522050103123355b0b48f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200501031600.j03G0OIg010511@desdemona.cc.emory.edu>
	<fc.00249f0f23107bce3b9aca000b4d0bd1.231085d3@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>
	<41D983E0.6090705@3times25.net> <1104781281.2410.6.camel@blue>
	<2802c522050103123355b0b48f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1104785388.2791.4.camel@blue>

On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 15:33 -0500, Jonathan Rickman wrote:
> On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 14:41:21 -0500, Jim Popovitch <jimpop at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > Stable Debian's focus is stability, not freshness. (NOTE: Debian was
> > doing this long before RHEL started doing the same)
> 
> So if we demand the ultimate in stability on windows systems, should
> we all run NT4?

Lots of people still do.  Note, The complaint was about Debian's kernel,
not a whole OS.

> old != stable 

This is just as true:  new != stable

> Personally, I find the 2.4 series to be significantly more stable than
> the 2.2 series in just about every conceivable situation. Last time I
> checked, RHEL was up to 2.4.9, so I'm afraid I don't understand that
> comparison.

The current Debian "Stable" stablized during the kernel 2.2 time period.
Since then only minor updates and backports have been added.  RHEL
stabilized during the kernel 2.4 time period.  Thus my comment about
Debian being ahead of RH in moving to a slower release cycle.

-Jim P.





From audilover at speedfactory.net  Mon Jan  3 17:15:56 2005
From: audilover at speedfactory.net (Raylynn Knight)
Date: Mon Jan  3 17:15:56 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <41D983E0.6090705@3times25.net>
References: <200501031600.j03G0OIg010511@desdemona.cc.emory.edu>
	<fc.00249f0f23107bce3b9aca000b4d0bd1.231085d3@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>
	<41D983E0.6090705@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <1104790344.727.8.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>

On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 12:41 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> John P. Healey wrote:
> > Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org> writes:
> > 
> >>Yeah...  I don't get that either.  The most mature products on the planet
> >>are not an option... 
> > 
> > 
> > He's probably looking to broaden his horizons and explore packaging systems
> > that aren't rpm based.  Also, I fail to see how Debian is any less mature than
> > redhat, mandrake, and fedora.
> 
> Stable Debian running a 2.2 kernel.  To me, that is not mature, that is 
> old.  Personal opinion.
> 
Stable Debian is 3.0r4 released on 1 January 2005.  Debian supports many
hardware architectures, some of which only have a 2.2 kernel.  Debian
3.0 was originally released 19 July 2002 so the default install kernel
is a 2.2 based kernel, however a 2.4 kernel is optional and available on
x86 hardware at boot time.

 
-- 
Raylynn Knight <audilover at speedfactory.net>


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Mon Jan  3 17:30:21 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Mon Jan  3 17:30:21 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <1104790344.727.8.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
Message-ID: <mailman.42.1104791420.18563.ale@ale.org>

Again, from a business perspective you'd never sell Debian as a viable,
supported alternative to the pinhead suits.

They're getting better, it's just not considered viable on a widespread
basis yet.

Jerald M. Sheets jr.
Sr. UNIX Systems Administrator
McKesson, Inc.
(404) 293-8762
**********
>su -
Password:
# cat /dev/flood > /dev/earth
# rdev noah+beasts
# dd if=noah+beasts of=/dev/earth

PGP Key: 0x6267F183

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GIT d+ s++: a C++++ UL++++ P++ L+++ E--- W++ N+ o-- K+ w-- 
O M+ V PS- PE++ Y+ PGP++ t++ 5++ X+ R* tv- b+ DI++++ D++ 
G+ e h---- r+++ y++++ 
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK----- 

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Raylynn
Knight
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 5:12 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] Distro Reply

On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 12:41 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> John P. Healey wrote:
> > Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org> writes:
> > 
> >>Yeah...  I don't get that either.  The most mature products on the 
> >>planet are not an option...
> > 
> > 
> > He's probably looking to broaden his horizons and explore packaging 
> > systems that aren't rpm based.  Also, I fail to see how Debian is 
> > any less mature than redhat, mandrake, and fedora.
> 
> Stable Debian running a 2.2 kernel.  To me, that is not mature, that 
> is old.  Personal opinion.
> 
Stable Debian is 3.0r4 released on 1 January 2005.  Debian supports many
hardware architectures, some of which only have a 2.2 kernel.  Debian 3.0
was originally released 19 July 2002 so the default install kernel is a 2.2
based kernel, however a 2.4 kernel is optional and available on
x86 hardware at boot time.

 
--
Raylynn Knight <audilover at speedfactory.net>

_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004
 

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004
 


From audilover at speedfactory.net  Mon Jan  3 17:45:59 2005
From: audilover at speedfactory.net (Raylynn Knight)
Date: Mon Jan  3 17:45:59 2005
Subject: [ale] NW ALE meeting
In-Reply-To: <41ABD28B.4080604@3times25.net>
References: <41AB4118.6020106@3times25.net>
	<200411291817.34568.rb211@tds.net> <41ABB834.8090705@3times25.net>
	<1101779081.26918.5.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
	<41ABD28B.4080604@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <1104792146.727.17.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>

On Mon, 2004-11-29 at 20:53 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> Raylynn Knight wrote:
> 
> > I should be able to make it this month.
> 
> Excellent.
> 
> > Do we have a topic for January yet?  If not perhaps we could get take
> > some requests for topics. If I know enough about any of the proposed
> > topics I'd be willing to do a presentation for January or February.
> 
> So we have an offer to do a presentation in January or February, any 
> suggestions?  Feel free to offer your own Ray.  Thanks for the offer.
> 
Do we have a topic for January?  

I never saw any responses (i.e. request for presentation of a particular
topic).  Let's hear from some potential attendees what topic would
motivate them to attend a meeting.  If I don't have enough knowledge of
the topic(s) I'm sure we can locate someone who does.  I think Geoffrey
would appreciate having a topic set for a few months in advance.

-- 
Raylynn Knight <audilover at speedfactory.net>


From James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com  Mon Jan  3 18:03:05 2005
From: James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com (James Taylor)
Date: Mon Jan  3 18:03:05 2005
Subject: [ale] NW ALE meeting
Message-ID: <s1d98800.091@inet.eastcobbgroup.com>

I'd be happy to show off the Novell Open Enterprise Server beta in
February if anyone's interested.
-jt
 
 


James Taylor
The East Cobb Group, Inc.
james.taylor at eastcobbgroup.com
678-697-9420


>>>audilover at speedfactory.net 01/03/05 5:42 pm >>> 
On Mon, 2004-11-29 at 20:53 -0500, Geoffrey wrote: 
>Raylynn Knight wrote: 
> 
>>I should be able to make it this month. 
> 
>Excellent. 
> 
>>Do we have a topic for January yet?  If not perhaps we could get take 
>>some requests for topics. If I know enough about any of the proposed 
>>topics I'd be willing to do a presentation for January or February. 
> 
>So we have an offer to do a presentation in January or February, any 
>suggestions?  Feel free to offer your own Ray.  Thanks for the offer. 
> 
Do we have a topic for January?  
 
I never saw any responses (i.e. request for presentation of a particular

topic).  Let's hear from some potential attendees what topic would 
motivate them to attend a meeting.  If I don't have enough knowledge of 
the topic(s) I'm sure we can locate someone who does.  I think Geoffrey 
would appreciate having a topic set for a few months in advance. 
 
-- 
Raylynn Knight <audilover at speedfactory.net> 
 
 
Ale mailing list 
Ale at ale.org 
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale 



From brandon at geekrus.net  Mon Jan  3 18:54:27 2005
From: brandon at geekrus.net (Brandon Colbert)
Date: Mon Jan  3 18:54:27 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
Message-ID: <41D9DA22.1060500@geekrus.net>

Jerald Sheets wrote:

>Again, from a business perspective you'd never sell Debian as a viable,
>supported alternative to the pinhead suits.
>
>They're getting better, it's just not considered viable on a widespread
>basis yet.
>
>Jerald M. Sheets jr.
>Sr. UNIX Systems Administrator
>McKesson, Inc.
>(404) 293-8762
>**********
>  
>
>>su -
>>    
>>
>Password:
># cat /dev/flood > /dev/earth
># rdev noah+beasts
># dd if=noah+beasts of=/dev/earth
>
>PGP Key: 0x6267F183
>
>-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
>Version: 3.12
>GIT d+ s++: a C++++ UL++++ P++ L+++ E--- W++ N+ o-- K+ w-- 
>O M+ V PS- PE++ Y+ PGP++ t++ 5++ X+ R* tv- b+ DI++++ D++ 
>G+ e h---- r+++ y++++ 
>------END GEEK CODE BLOCK----- 
>
>  
>
> 
>
>  
>
Well, I went with Fedora Core 3. I did the install today. I decided not 
to change distros because I have 2+ years under my belt with 
redhat/mandrake. I am glade I went with what I know because I ran into a 
problem with "X" that took me one hour to figure out. So right now the 
server is running and burning.

Thanks for all the feedback.

 Opensource Rocks!!


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jan  3 19:01:14 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon Jan  3 19:01:14 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <41D9DA22.1060500@geekrus.net>
References: <41D9DA22.1060500@geekrus.net>
Message-ID: <1104796635.3063.8.camel@blue>

On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 18:49 -0500, Brandon Colbert wrote:
> So right now the server is running and burning.

Uhhh, use a halon extinguisher if you can, those dry-chemical ones make
too big of a mess.

-Jim P.




From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jan  3 19:06:10 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon Jan  3 19:06:10 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <1104790344.727.8.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
References: <200501031600.j03G0OIg010511@desdemona.cc.emory.edu>
	<fc.00249f0f23107bce3b9aca000b4d0bd1.231085d3@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>
	<41D983E0.6090705@3times25.net>
	<1104790344.727.8.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
Message-ID: <1104796923.3063.13.camel@blue>

On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 17:12 -0500, Raylynn Knight wrote:
> Stable Debian is 3.0r4 released on 1 January 2005.  

Just to be clear... what was released on 1-Jan-2005 was a "point" 
release.  Stable Debian was initially released in 2002.  The 
following point releases to Stable have occurred:

	3.0r1 Dec-2002
	3.0r2 Nov-2003
	3.0r3 Oct-2004
	3.0r4 Jan-2005

hth,

-Jim P.


From ppolstra at gmail.com  Mon Jan  3 19:09:03 2005
From: ppolstra at gmail.com (Philip Polstra)
Date: Mon Jan  3 19:09:03 2005
Subject: [ale] Configuring a bunch of workstations the same
In-Reply-To: <7532646240487674735@unknownmsgid>
References: <1beea75e05010307031724586e@mail.gmail.com>
	<7532646240487674735@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <1beea75e05010316041fda0574@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 11:05:46 -0500, Jerald Sheets <jsheets at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Yep.  Kickstart.
> 
> My beginner network install article can be found here:
> http://servers.linux.com/article.pl?sid=03/11/26/039241&tid=87&tid=29&tid=42
> 

Thanks for the info.  I think I found a bug in ksconfig.  If you tell
it to do a network install, it doesn't write the ks.cfg file correctly
and makes you enter it manually.  Also, if you tell it to remove linux
partitions, it might remove windows partitions as well, like it did to
about 10 of my workstations before I figured out what it was doing.


From hbbs at comcast.net  Mon Jan  3 21:46:48 2005
From: hbbs at comcast.net (Jeff Hubbs)
Date: Mon Jan  3 21:46:48 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <1104791411.3068.219.camel@juanita>
References: <1104791411.3068.219.camel@juanita>
Message-ID: <1104806580.3068.240.camel@juanita>

I guess what bothers me about the attitude described here (not saying
that Jerald holds it) is that I had thought that part of the whole point
of using Linux and FOSS in general is that you *weren't* dependent on a
single source or *any* source of conditional support - the idea being
that you as an IT implementor/integrator had inviolate say over how your
software behaved.  This "viable, supported alternative" talk sounds like
nothing so much as wanting the ball and chain back.

I *know* what it's like to be stuck in a certain kind of closed-source
hell where you can't get your app fixed or your peripheral to behave
properly for love *or* money, and I also know what it's like for paid
support reps to turn their nose up at you because the way in which you
needed to adapt their product to your needs was, in their eyes,
"unsupported."  There's nothing about the OS in question being Linux
that keeps implementors out of that wasteland.  

Jeff

On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 17:26, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> Again, from a business perspective you'd never sell Debian as a viable,
> supported alternative to the pinhead suits.
> 
> They're getting better, it's just not considered viable on a widespread
> basis yet.
> 
> Jerald M. Sheets jr.
> Sr. UNIX Systems Administrator
> McKesson, Inc.
> (404) 293-8762
> **********
> >su -
> Password:
> # cat /dev/flood > /dev/earth
> # rdev noah+beasts
> # dd if=noah+beasts of=/dev/earth
> 
> PGP Key: 0x6267F183
> 
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> Version: 3.12
> GIT d+ s++: a C++++ UL++++ P++ L+++ E--- W++ N+ o-- K+ w-- 
> O M+ V PS- PE++ Y+ PGP++ t++ 5++ X+ R* tv- b+ DI++++ D++ 
> G+ e h---- r+++ y++++ 
> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK----- 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Raylynn
> Knight
> Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 5:12 PM
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [ale] Distro Reply
> 
> On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 12:41 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> > John P. Healey wrote:
> > > Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org> writes:
> > > 
> > >>Yeah...  I don't get that either.  The most mature products on the 
> > >>planet are not an option...
> > > 
> > > 
> > > He's probably looking to broaden his horizons and explore packaging 
> > > systems that aren't rpm based.  Also, I fail to see how Debian is 
> > > any less mature than redhat, mandrake, and fedora.
> > 
> > Stable Debian running a 2.2 kernel.  To me, that is not mature, that 
> > is old.  Personal opinion.
> > 
> Stable Debian is 3.0r4 released on 1 January 2005.  Debian supports many
> hardware architectures, some of which only have a 2.2 kernel.  Debian 3.0
> was originally released 19 July 2002 so the default install kernel is a 2.2
> based kernel, however a 2.4 kernel is optional and available on
> x86 hardware at boot time.
> 
>  
> --
> Raylynn Knight <audilover at speedfactory.net>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004
>  


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Mon Jan  3 22:01:56 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Mon Jan  3 22:01:56 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <1104781281.2410.6.camel@blue>
References: <200501031600.j03G0OIg010511@desdemona.cc.emory.edu>	<fc.00249f0f23107bce3b9aca000b4d0bd1.231085d3@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>	<41D983E0.6090705@3times25.net>
	<1104781281.2410.6.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <41DA0654.4090901@3times25.net>

Jim Popovitch wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 12:41 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> 
> 
>>Stable Debian running a 2.2 kernel.  To me, that is not mature, that is 
>>old.  Personal opinion.
> 
> 
> Stable Debian's focus is stability, not freshness. (NOTE: Debian was
> doing this long before RHEL started doing the same)

Since when was RHEL 2 kernels behind the available stable kernel? 
They're on 2.4 and I believe the next release scheduled for early this 
year will be 2.6.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From james at sumners.ath.cx  Mon Jan  3 22:23:46 2005
From: james at sumners.ath.cx (James Sumners)
Date: Mon Jan  3 22:23:46 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <41DA0654.4090901@3times25.net>
References: <200501031600.j03G0OIg010511@desdemona.cc.emory.edu>
	<fc.00249f0f23107bce3b9aca000b4d0bd1.231085d3@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>
	<41D983E0.6090705@3times25.net> <1104781281.2410.6.camel@blue>
	<41DA0654.4090901@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <20050103222010.1d87b1d1@sumners.ath.cx>

I wanted to stay out of this conversation, we had it not more than two weeks
ago, but I am evidently weak. I still don't understand why you are hung up on
the stable branch defaulting to 2.2. Do you not understand what Debian is about
and how it achieves its goals?

By the way, your statement below applies to Debian as well.

On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 21:58:28 -0500
Geoffrey <esoteric at 3times25.net> wrote:

> Since when was RHEL 2 kernels behind the available stable kernel? 
> They're on 2.4 and I believe the next release scheduled for early this 
> year will be 2.6.

-- 
James Sumners
http://ug.dyndns.org/~jsumners/

"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological
personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the
corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a
condition to which they are quickly addicted."

Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto)
CH:D 59


From scherrey at proteus-tech.com  Mon Jan  3 22:27:44 2005
From: scherrey at proteus-tech.com (Benjamin Scherrey)
Date: Mon Jan  3 22:27:44 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <1104806580.3068.240.camel@juanita>
Message-ID: <HBVSFCDA9SOMIYTTPQA594SQ1V62GC.41da0c52@bonzo2003>

Jeff,

	I mainly agree with your desire premise but not your conclusion. Sticking to a commercial 
linux vendor does not mean you are dependent on a single source so long as you have all the 
'Source' of your implementation. Back in my bleeding edge days (less so now), I was happily 
downloading the latest kernel and doing custom builds with beta versions of gcc, etc... all on top of 
'commercial' linux platforms. Open Source is the solution to your desire - commercial support is an 
attractive option for most companies (and many individuals). If I were a company with more than 25 
linux installs that had to be maintained, I'd likely build my own internal distribution - either from 
scratch, or on top of an existing one. Its really not that hard to do. As linux becomes more 
mainstream, however, more options become available and this is good for everyone. Being 
mainstream means more general users and more profit potential which is what attracts the 
commercial intrests. I'm very happy to have both the big commercial interests and the 
hippie/commie folk all doing their best to make linux out in their own image - just as long as they 
keep it open. No harm no foul.

	best regards,

		Ben Scherrey

PS: Just an interesting anecdote that is a great example of your fears - I had a BIG client who used 
Cognos in a pretty big way. They were running into problems so we debugged it and determined 
that it was generating some incorrect SQL. We pointed the problem out to the vendor who agreed it 
was a bug but they weren't "big enough of a customer" to warrent a bug fix and if our client would 
only buy more of the product they'd get that taken care for us very soon. Apparently 5 figures isn't 
big enough for them... you can almost imagine our answer. An Open Source vendor can't hold that 
over you.

1/3/2005 9:43:00 PM, Jeff Hubbs <hbbs at comcast.net> wrote:

>I guess what bothers me about the attitude described here (not saying
>that Jerald holds it) is that I had thought that part of the whole point
>of using Linux and FOSS in general is that you *weren't* dependent on a
>single source or *any* source of conditional support - the idea being
>that you as an IT implementor/integrator had inviolate say over how your
>software behaved.  This "viable, supported alternative" talk sounds like
>nothing so much as wanting the ball and chain back.
>
>I *know* what it's like to be stuck in a certain kind of closed-source
>hell where you can't get your app fixed or your peripheral to behave
>properly for love *or* money, and I also know what it's like for paid
>support reps to turn their nose up at you because the way in which you
>needed to adapt their product to your needs was, in their eyes,
>"unsupported."  There's nothing about the OS in question being Linux
>that keeps implementors out of that wasteland.  
>
>Jeff





From jsheets at yahoo.com  Mon Jan  3 22:32:26 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Mon Jan  3 22:32:26 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <1104806580.3068.240.camel@juanita>
Message-ID: <mailman.43.1104809546.18563.ale@ale.org>

But you have to understand, that to foster widespread acceptance of the
Linuxes in the enterprise, we must drop our zealotry to a degree.  (I had to
learn this the hard way, and speak of myself here)

Something Microsoft has been so good at is embrace and extend.  In the Linux
world, we still hav IT managers that were educated in the 60's and 70's and
view Linux as nothing more than a toy.  If instead you approach them with a
small entry (DNS server, for instance) and provide them all the trappings of
their paid-for "supported" os, you've won.  

It doesn't matter that it isn't GNU/Linux.  It doesn't matter that it's
"Free and Open".  What matters to today's IT manager (decreasingly so) is
that when Linux admin X gets pissed and leaves, he can call company Y to
support solution Z.  That's all he cares about.  

Again, from the ENTERPRISE perspective, we're newcomers to this game with
something to prove.


When I was at Our Lady of the Lake hospital, when I arrived in 2001, there
was *NO* Linux in house.  Not desktop, not server.  When I left, there was
RH on RS6000/Power PC, a clustered HIPAA compliant patient radiology records
system writing to Optical disks running on RH AS 3.x. (Which, incidently,
was used in the first hospital in America going completely filmless in their
entire radiology farm)  I had 2 DNS servers on IBM 435 machines with over
200 days uptime, running on RH 9.x.  The IBM p690 Regatta had a RedHat
partition onboard, and we had Linux 390 on the mainframe.  Finally, the
entire UNIX-based Administration team was running in a 100% linux desktop
environment.  (11 people).


ALL SERVING HOSPITAL PRODUCTION ENVIRONMENTS.

My key to success in a Linux-hostile environ was to start slow.  The DNS
servers were first.  We ran them in test for 6 mnths before they'd let me go
live with them.  When I did, both machines were on IBM maintenance, and were
running an (at the time) supported Linux system.  I also had hardware flat
out fail, and had *ZERO* downtime.  This type of event spoke VOLUMES.  Next,
I upgraded everything to RH AS 3 before I left.  As of today, the Linux
environments (as *we* would all be aware) have been the most stable,
zero-maintenance environments in-house.  However, to Joe IT manager, this
must be proven through time and trial.  You can't just run in and install
Gentoo and hope it works.

In my time at the hospital, I can count total downtime (unscheduled) within
an afternoon's cofee-break time.  We *NEVER* went down without planning, and
then only once (or less) a year.  At one point, our systems were up more
than the mainframe (it has to come down for an hour tice a year for
time-change)

Why do I say all this?

While a simple throw-it and forget-it Linux system may be fine for Joe
shopkeeper, it won't work in the Enterprise.


Don't take that as a slam.  It isn't.  It's real-world, eterprise (read
data-ceter) class expereience in mission critical (read patient's records
and lives) data environments.  If we want to take over the world in the
Linux arena (read, oust Microsoft) you have to start grassroots and
enterprise simultaneously, and converge toward Microsoft's territory from
both ends so their only place to go is the margins...marginalized.

Thanks for listening.

Jerald M. Sheets jr.
Sr. UNIX Systems Administrator
McKesson, Inc.
(404) 293-8762
**********
>su -
Password:
# cat /dev/flood > /dev/earth
# rdev noah+beasts
# dd if=noah+beasts of=/dev/earth

PGP Key: 0x6267F183

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GIT d+ s++: a C++++ UL++++ P++ L+++ E--- W++ N+ o-- K+ w-- 
O M+ V PS- PE++ Y+ PGP++ t++ 5++ X+ R* tv- b+ DI++++ D++ 
G+ e h---- r+++ y++++ 
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----






-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Jeff
Hubbs
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 9:43 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: RE: [ale] Distro Reply

I guess what bothers me about the attitude described here (not saying that
Jerald holds it) is that I had thought that part of the whole point of using
Linux and FOSS in general is that you *weren't* dependent on a single source
or *any* source of conditional support - the idea being that you as an IT
implementor/integrator had inviolate say over how your software behaved.
This "viable, supported alternative" talk sounds like nothing so much as
wanting the ball and chain back.

I *know* what it's like to be stuck in a certain kind of closed-source hell
where you can't get your app fixed or your peripheral to behave properly for
love *or* money, and I also know what it's like for paid support reps to
turn their nose up at you because the way in which you needed to adapt their
product to your needs was, in their eyes, "unsupported."  There's nothing
about the OS in question being Linux that keeps implementors out of that
wasteland.  

Jeff

On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 17:26, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> Again, from a business perspective you'd never sell Debian as a 
> viable, supported alternative to the pinhead suits.
> 
> They're getting better, it's just not considered viable on a 
> widespread basis yet.
> 
> Jerald M. Sheets jr.
> Sr. UNIX Systems Administrator
> McKesson, Inc.
> (404) 293-8762
> **********
> >su -
> Password:
> # cat /dev/flood > /dev/earth
> # rdev noah+beasts
> # dd if=noah+beasts of=/dev/earth
> 
> PGP Key: 0x6267F183
> 
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> Version: 3.12
> GIT d+ s++: a C++++ UL++++ P++ L+++ E--- W++ N+ o-- K+ w-- O M+ V PS- 
> PE++ Y+ PGP++ t++ 5++ X+ R* tv- b+ DI++++ D++
> G+ e h---- r+++ y++++
> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of 
> Raylynn Knight
> Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 5:12 PM
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [ale] Distro Reply
> 
> On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 12:41 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> > John P. Healey wrote:
> > > Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org> writes:
> > > 
> > >>Yeah...  I don't get that either.  The most mature products on the 
> > >>planet are not an option...
> > > 
> > > 
> > > He's probably looking to broaden his horizons and explore 
> > > packaging systems that aren't rpm based.  Also, I fail to see how 
> > > Debian is any less mature than redhat, mandrake, and fedora.
> > 
> > Stable Debian running a 2.2 kernel.  To me, that is not mature, that 
> > is old.  Personal opinion.
> > 
> Stable Debian is 3.0r4 released on 1 January 2005.  Debian supports 
> many hardware architectures, some of which only have a 2.2 kernel.  
> Debian 3.0 was originally released 19 July 2002 so the default install 
> kernel is a 2.2 based kernel, however a 2.4 kernel is optional and 
> available on
> x86 hardware at boot time.
> 
>  
> --
> Raylynn Knight <audilover at speedfactory.net>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004
>  

_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004
 

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004
 


From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Mon Jan  3 22:58:45 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Mon Jan  3 22:58:45 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <HBVSFCDA9SOMIYTTPQA594SQ1V62GC.41da0c52@bonzo2003>
References: <HBVSFCDA9SOMIYTTPQA594SQ1V62GC.41da0c52@bonzo2003>
Message-ID: <1104810907.8422.39.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>

On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 22:24, Benjamin Scherrey wrote:

> PS: Just an interesting anecdote that is a great example of your fears - I had a BIG client who used 
> Cognos in a pretty big way. They were running into problems so we debugged it and determined 
> that it was generating some incorrect SQL. We pointed the problem out to the vendor who agreed it 
> was a bug but they weren't "big enough of a customer" to warrent a bug fix and if our client would 
> only buy more of the product they'd get that taken care for us very soon. Apparently 5 figures isn't 
> big enough for them... you can almost imagine our answer. An Open Source vendor can't hold that 
> over you.

And the smaller the client gets the bigger the "you're not important
enough for us to care about your needs" becomes.

I'm currently migrating a client from Quackbooks to SQL-Ledger primarily
because Intuit basically told them to go away with their "little" needs.

I love Perl. I love Perl.I love Perl. I love Perl. 
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Mon Jan  3 23:07:26 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Mon Jan  3 23:07:26 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <200501040338.j043cZZN003746@moat.localnetsolutions.com>
References: <200501040338.j043cZZN003746@moat.localnetsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <1104811414.8422.46.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>

I hope you are writing a book on how you did this, what the challenges
were, what problems you had to overcome, etc. This is EXACTLY the kind
of stuff that becomes more ammo for somewhere else to make the switch to
sanity-based systems. The medical community is in dire straits with
HIPPA on one hand and WinXP on the other. Several of my doctor clients
are still using DOS apps (they _do_ work) because the smaller stuff is
still not HIPPA compliant. The FOSS medical managment software is beta
quality but some of it is very HIPPA savy. It's getting the foot in the
door...

On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 22:28, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> But you have to understand, that to foster widespread acceptance of the
> Linuxes in the enterprise, we must drop our zealotry to a degree.  (I had to
> learn this the hard way, and speak of myself here)
> 
> Something Microsoft has been so good at is embrace and extend.  In the Linux
> world, we still hav IT managers that were educated in the 60's and 70's and
> view Linux as nothing more than a toy.  If instead you approach them with a
> small entry (DNS server, for instance) and provide them all the trappings of
> their paid-for "supported" os, you've won.  
> 
> It doesn't matter that it isn't GNU/Linux.  It doesn't matter that it's
> "Free and Open".  What matters to today's IT manager (decreasingly so) is
> that when Linux admin X gets pissed and leaves, he can call company Y to
> support solution Z.  That's all he cares about.  
> 
> Again, from the ENTERPRISE perspective, we're newcomers to this game with
> something to prove.
> 
> 
> When I was at Our Lady of the Lake hospital, when I arrived in 2001, there
> was *NO* Linux in house.  Not desktop, not server.  When I left, there was
> RH on RS6000/Power PC, a clustered HIPAA compliant patient radiology records
> system writing to Optical disks running on RH AS 3.x. (Which, incidently,
> was used in the first hospital in America going completely filmless in their
> entire radiology farm)  I had 2 DNS servers on IBM 435 machines with over
> 200 days uptime, running on RH 9.x.  The IBM p690 Regatta had a RedHat
> partition onboard, and we had Linux 390 on the mainframe.  Finally, the
> entire UNIX-based Administration team was running in a 100% linux desktop
> environment.  (11 people).
> 
> 
> ALL SERVING HOSPITAL PRODUCTION ENVIRONMENTS.
> 
> My key to success in a Linux-hostile environ was to start slow.  The DNS
> servers were first.  We ran them in test for 6 mnths before they'd let me go
> live with them.  When I did, both machines were on IBM maintenance, and were
> running an (at the time) supported Linux system.  I also had hardware flat
> out fail, and had *ZERO* downtime.  This type of event spoke VOLUMES.  Next,
> I upgraded everything to RH AS 3 before I left.  As of today, the Linux
> environments (as *we* would all be aware) have been the most stable,
> zero-maintenance environments in-house.  However, to Joe IT manager, this
> must be proven through time and trial.  You can't just run in and install
> Gentoo and hope it works.
> 
> In my time at the hospital, I can count total downtime (unscheduled) within
> an afternoon's cofee-break time.  We *NEVER* went down without planning, and
> then only once (or less) a year.  At one point, our systems were up more
> than the mainframe (it has to come down for an hour tice a year for
> time-change)
> 
> Why do I say all this?
> 
> While a simple throw-it and forget-it Linux system may be fine for Joe
> shopkeeper, it won't work in the Enterprise.
> 
> 
> Don't take that as a slam.  It isn't.  It's real-world, eterprise (read
> data-ceter) class expereience in mission critical (read patient's records
> and lives) data environments.  If we want to take over the world in the
> Linux arena (read, oust Microsoft) you have to start grassroots and
> enterprise simultaneously, and converge toward Microsoft's territory from
> both ends so their only place to go is the margins...marginalized.
> 
> Thanks for listening.
> 
> Jerald M. Sheets jr.
> Sr. UNIX Systems Administrator
> McKesson, Inc.
> (404) 293-8762
> **********
> >su -
> Password:
> # cat /dev/flood > /dev/earth
> # rdev noah+beasts
> # dd if=noah+beasts of=/dev/earth
> 
> PGP Key: 0x6267F183
> 
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> Version: 3.12
> GIT d+ s++: a C++++ UL++++ P++ L+++ E--- W++ N+ o-- K+ w-- 
> O M+ V PS- PE++ Y+ PGP++ t++ 5++ X+ R* tv- b+ DI++++ D++ 
> G+ e h---- r+++ y++++ 
> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Jeff
> Hubbs
> Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 9:43 PM
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> Subject: RE: [ale] Distro Reply
> 
> I guess what bothers me about the attitude described here (not saying that
> Jerald holds it) is that I had thought that part of the whole point of using
> Linux and FOSS in general is that you *weren't* dependent on a single source
> or *any* source of conditional support - the idea being that you as an IT
> implementor/integrator had inviolate say over how your software behaved.
> This "viable, supported alternative" talk sounds like nothing so much as
> wanting the ball and chain back.
> 
> I *know* what it's like to be stuck in a certain kind of closed-source hell
> where you can't get your app fixed or your peripheral to behave properly for
> love *or* money, and I also know what it's like for paid support reps to
> turn their nose up at you because the way in which you needed to adapt their
> product to your needs was, in their eyes, "unsupported."  There's nothing
> about the OS in question being Linux that keeps implementors out of that
> wasteland.  
> 
> Jeff
> 
> On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 17:26, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> > Again, from a business perspective you'd never sell Debian as a 
> > viable, supported alternative to the pinhead suits.
> > 
> > They're getting better, it's just not considered viable on a 
> > widespread basis yet.
> > 
> > Jerald M. Sheets jr.
> > Sr. UNIX Systems Administrator
> > McKesson, Inc.
> > (404) 293-8762
> > **********
> > >su -
> > Password:
> > # cat /dev/flood > /dev/earth
> > # rdev noah+beasts
> > # dd if=noah+beasts of=/dev/earth
> > 
> > PGP Key: 0x6267F183
> > 
> > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> > Version: 3.12
> > GIT d+ s++: a C++++ UL++++ P++ L+++ E--- W++ N+ o-- K+ w-- O M+ V PS- 
> > PE++ Y+ PGP++ t++ 5++ X+ R* tv- b+ DI++++ D++
> > G+ e h---- r+++ y++++
> > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of 
> > Raylynn Knight
> > Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 5:12 PM
> > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> > Subject: Re: [ale] Distro Reply
> > 
> > On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 12:41 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> > > John P. Healey wrote:
> > > > Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org> writes:
> > > > 
> > > >>Yeah...  I don't get that either.  The most mature products on the 
> > > >>planet are not an option...
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > He's probably looking to broaden his horizons and explore 
> > > > packaging systems that aren't rpm based.  Also, I fail to see how 
> > > > Debian is any less mature than redhat, mandrake, and fedora.
> > > 
> > > Stable Debian running a 2.2 kernel.  To me, that is not mature, that 
> > > is old.  Personal opinion.
> > > 
> > Stable Debian is 3.0r4 released on 1 January 2005.  Debian supports 
> > many hardware architectures, some of which only have a 2.2 kernel.  
> > Debian 3.0 was originally released 19 July 2002 so the default install 
> > kernel is a 2.2 based kernel, however a 2.4 kernel is optional and 
> > available on
> > x86 hardware at boot time.
> > 
> >  
> > --
> > Raylynn Knight <audilover at speedfactory.net>
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> > 
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004
> >  
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004
>  
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
-------------- next part --------------
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From jsheets at yahoo.com  Mon Jan  3 23:10:31 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Mon Jan  3 23:10:31 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <1104811414.8422.46.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.44.1104811830.18563.ale@ale.org>

Mostly Lawson and  Cerner stuff today.  (didn't we chat about this in the
past?)

With SELinux now, it should be even easier to satisfy HIPAA.


Unfortunately, that's not what my most current book is about.  I'll
definitely look into it for the next one.

Jerald M. Sheets jr.
Sr. UNIX Systems Administrator
McKesson, Inc.
(404) 293-8762
**********
>su -
Password:
# cat /dev/flood > /dev/earth
# rdev noah+beasts
# dd if=noah+beasts of=/dev/earth

PGP Key: 0x6267F183

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GIT d+ s++: a C++++ UL++++ P++ L+++ E--- W++ N+ o-- K+ w-- 
O M+ V PS- PE++ Y+ PGP++ t++ 5++ X+ R* tv- b+ DI++++ D++ 
G+ e h---- r+++ y++++ 
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of James P.
Kinney III
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 11:04 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: RE: [ale] Distro Reply

I hope you are writing a book on how you did this, what the challenges were,
what problems you had to overcome, etc. This is EXACTLY the kind of stuff
that becomes more ammo for somewhere else to make the switch to sanity-based
systems. The medical community is in dire straits with HIPPA on one hand and
WinXP on the other. Several of my doctor clients are still using DOS apps
(they _do_ work) because the smaller stuff is still not HIPPA compliant. The
FOSS medical managment software is beta quality but some of it is very HIPPA
savy. It's getting the foot in the door...

On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 22:28, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> But you have to understand, that to foster widespread acceptance of 
> the Linuxes in the enterprise, we must drop our zealotry to a degree.  
> (I had to learn this the hard way, and speak of myself here)
> 
> Something Microsoft has been so good at is embrace and extend.  In the 
> Linux world, we still hav IT managers that were educated in the 60's 
> and 70's and view Linux as nothing more than a toy.  If instead you 
> approach them with a small entry (DNS server, for instance) and 
> provide them all the trappings of their paid-for "supported" os, you've
won.
> 
> It doesn't matter that it isn't GNU/Linux.  It doesn't matter that 
> it's "Free and Open".  What matters to today's IT manager 
> (decreasingly so) is that when Linux admin X gets pissed and leaves, 
> he can call company Y to support solution Z.  That's all he cares about.
> 
> Again, from the ENTERPRISE perspective, we're newcomers to this game 
> with something to prove.
> 
> 
> When I was at Our Lady of the Lake hospital, when I arrived in 2001, 
> there was *NO* Linux in house.  Not desktop, not server.  When I left, 
> there was RH on RS6000/Power PC, a clustered HIPAA compliant patient 
> radiology records system writing to Optical disks running on RH AS 
> 3.x. (Which, incidently, was used in the first hospital in America 
> going completely filmless in their entire radiology farm)  I had 2 DNS 
> servers on IBM 435 machines with over 200 days uptime, running on RH 
> 9.x.  The IBM p690 Regatta had a RedHat partition onboard, and we had 
> Linux 390 on the mainframe.  Finally, the entire UNIX-based 
> Administration team was running in a 100% linux desktop environment.  (11
people).
> 
> 
> ALL SERVING HOSPITAL PRODUCTION ENVIRONMENTS.
> 
> My key to success in a Linux-hostile environ was to start slow.  The 
> DNS servers were first.  We ran them in test for 6 mnths before they'd 
> let me go live with them.  When I did, both machines were on IBM 
> maintenance, and were running an (at the time) supported Linux system.  
> I also had hardware flat out fail, and had *ZERO* downtime.  This type 
> of event spoke VOLUMES.  Next, I upgraded everything to RH AS 3 before 
> I left.  As of today, the Linux environments (as *we* would all be 
> aware) have been the most stable, zero-maintenance environments 
> in-house.  However, to Joe IT manager, this must be proven through 
> time and trial.  You can't just run in and install Gentoo and hope it
works.
> 
> In my time at the hospital, I can count total downtime (unscheduled) 
> within an afternoon's cofee-break time.  We *NEVER* went down without 
> planning, and then only once (or less) a year.  At one point, our 
> systems were up more than the mainframe (it has to come down for an 
> hour tice a year for
> time-change)
> 
> Why do I say all this?
> 
> While a simple throw-it and forget-it Linux system may be fine for Joe 
> shopkeeper, it won't work in the Enterprise.
> 
> 
> Don't take that as a slam.  It isn't.  It's real-world, eterprise 
> (read
> data-ceter) class expereience in mission critical (read patient's 
> records and lives) data environments.  If we want to take over the 
> world in the Linux arena (read, oust Microsoft) you have to start 
> grassroots and enterprise simultaneously, and converge toward 
> Microsoft's territory from both ends so their only place to go is the
margins...marginalized.
> 
> Thanks for listening.
> 
> Jerald M. Sheets jr.
> Sr. UNIX Systems Administrator
> McKesson, Inc.
> (404) 293-8762
> **********
> >su -
> Password:
> # cat /dev/flood > /dev/earth
> # rdev noah+beasts
> # dd if=noah+beasts of=/dev/earth
> 
> PGP Key: 0x6267F183
> 
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> Version: 3.12
> GIT d+ s++: a C++++ UL++++ P++ L+++ E--- W++ N+ o-- K+ w-- O M+ V PS- 
> PE++ Y+ PGP++ t++ 5++ X+ R* tv- b+ DI++++ D++
> G+ e h---- r+++ y++++
> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of 
> Jeff Hubbs
> Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 9:43 PM
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> Subject: RE: [ale] Distro Reply
> 
> I guess what bothers me about the attitude described here (not saying 
> that Jerald holds it) is that I had thought that part of the whole 
> point of using Linux and FOSS in general is that you *weren't* 
> dependent on a single source or *any* source of conditional support - 
> the idea being that you as an IT implementor/integrator had inviolate say
over how your software behaved.
> This "viable, supported alternative" talk sounds like nothing so much 
> as wanting the ball and chain back.
> 
> I *know* what it's like to be stuck in a certain kind of closed-source 
> hell where you can't get your app fixed or your peripheral to behave 
> properly for love *or* money, and I also know what it's like for paid 
> support reps to turn their nose up at you because the way in which you 
> needed to adapt their product to your needs was, in their eyes, 
> "unsupported."  There's nothing about the OS in question being Linux 
> that keeps implementors out of that wasteland.
> 
> Jeff
> 
> On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 17:26, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> > Again, from a business perspective you'd never sell Debian as a 
> > viable, supported alternative to the pinhead suits.
> > 
> > They're getting better, it's just not considered viable on a 
> > widespread basis yet.
> > 
> > Jerald M. Sheets jr.
> > Sr. UNIX Systems Administrator
> > McKesson, Inc.
> > (404) 293-8762
> > **********
> > >su -
> > Password:
> > # cat /dev/flood > /dev/earth
> > # rdev noah+beasts
> > # dd if=noah+beasts of=/dev/earth
> > 
> > PGP Key: 0x6267F183
> > 
> > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> > Version: 3.12
> > GIT d+ s++: a C++++ UL++++ P++ L+++ E--- W++ N+ o-- K+ w-- O M+ V 
> > PS-
> > PE++ Y+ PGP++ t++ 5++ X+ R* tv- b+ DI++++ D++
> > G+ e h---- r+++ y++++
> > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of 
> > Raylynn Knight
> > Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 5:12 PM
> > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> > Subject: Re: [ale] Distro Reply
> > 
> > On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 12:41 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> > > John P. Healey wrote:
> > > > Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org> writes:
> > > > 
> > > >>Yeah...  I don't get that either.  The most mature products on 
> > > >>the planet are not an option...
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > He's probably looking to broaden his horizons and explore 
> > > > packaging systems that aren't rpm based.  Also, I fail to see 
> > > > how Debian is any less mature than redhat, mandrake, and fedora.
> > > 
> > > Stable Debian running a 2.2 kernel.  To me, that is not mature, 
> > > that is old.  Personal opinion.
> > > 
> > Stable Debian is 3.0r4 released on 1 January 2005.  Debian supports 
> > many hardware architectures, some of which only have a 2.2 kernel.
> > Debian 3.0 was originally released 19 July 2002 so the default 
> > install kernel is a 2.2 based kernel, however a 2.4 kernel is 
> > optional and available on
> > x86 hardware at boot time.
> > 
> >  
> > --
> > Raylynn Knight <audilover at speedfactory.net>
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> > 
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 
> > 12/30/2004
> >  
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004
>  
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com> Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659
6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004
 
    

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004
 


From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Mon Jan  3 23:22:23 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Mon Jan  3 23:22:23 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <200501040407.j0447SZN010331@moat.localnetsolutions.com>
References: <200501040407.j0447SZN010331@moat.localnetsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <1104812318.8422.49.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>

On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 23:06, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> Mostly Lawson and  Cerner stuff today.  (didn't we chat about this in the
> past?)
> 
> With SELinux now, it should be even easier to satisfy HIPAA.

As long as the XP weak link is out of the picture, SELinux makes the
system _VERY_ hardened from internal and external attacks.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, that's not what my most current book is about.  I'll
> definitely look into it for the next one.
> 
> Jerald M. Sheets jr.
> Sr. UNIX Systems Administrator
> McKesson, Inc.
> (404) 293-8762
> **********
> >su -
> Password:
> # cat /dev/flood > /dev/earth
> # rdev noah+beasts
> # dd if=noah+beasts of=/dev/earth
> 
> PGP Key: 0x6267F183
> 
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> Version: 3.12
> GIT d+ s++: a C++++ UL++++ P++ L+++ E--- W++ N+ o-- K+ w-- 
> O M+ V PS- PE++ Y+ PGP++ t++ 5++ X+ R* tv- b+ DI++++ D++ 
> G+ e h---- r+++ y++++ 
> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of James P.
> Kinney III
> Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 11:04 PM
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> Subject: RE: [ale] Distro Reply
> 
> I hope you are writing a book on how you did this, what the challenges were,
> what problems you had to overcome, etc. This is EXACTLY the kind of stuff
> that becomes more ammo for somewhere else to make the switch to sanity-based
> systems. The medical community is in dire straits with HIPPA on one hand and
> WinXP on the other. Several of my doctor clients are still using DOS apps
> (they _do_ work) because the smaller stuff is still not HIPPA compliant. The
> FOSS medical managment software is beta quality but some of it is very HIPPA
> savy. It's getting the foot in the door...
> 
> On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 22:28, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> > But you have to understand, that to foster widespread acceptance of 
> > the Linuxes in the enterprise, we must drop our zealotry to a degree.  
> > (I had to learn this the hard way, and speak of myself here)
> > 
> > Something Microsoft has been so good at is embrace and extend.  In the 
> > Linux world, we still hav IT managers that were educated in the 60's 
> > and 70's and view Linux as nothing more than a toy.  If instead you 
> > approach them with a small entry (DNS server, for instance) and 
> > provide them all the trappings of their paid-for "supported" os, you've
> won.
> > 
> > It doesn't matter that it isn't GNU/Linux.  It doesn't matter that 
> > it's "Free and Open".  What matters to today's IT manager 
> > (decreasingly so) is that when Linux admin X gets pissed and leaves, 
> > he can call company Y to support solution Z.  That's all he cares about.
> > 
> > Again, from the ENTERPRISE perspective, we're newcomers to this game 
> > with something to prove.
> > 
> > 
> > When I was at Our Lady of the Lake hospital, when I arrived in 2001, 
> > there was *NO* Linux in house.  Not desktop, not server.  When I left, 
> > there was RH on RS6000/Power PC, a clustered HIPAA compliant patient 
> > radiology records system writing to Optical disks running on RH AS 
> > 3.x. (Which, incidently, was used in the first hospital in America 
> > going completely filmless in their entire radiology farm)  I had 2 DNS 
> > servers on IBM 435 machines with over 200 days uptime, running on RH 
> > 9.x.  The IBM p690 Regatta had a RedHat partition onboard, and we had 
> > Linux 390 on the mainframe.  Finally, the entire UNIX-based 
> > Administration team was running in a 100% linux desktop environment.  (11
> people).
> > 
> > 
> > ALL SERVING HOSPITAL PRODUCTION ENVIRONMENTS.
> > 
> > My key to success in a Linux-hostile environ was to start slow.  The 
> > DNS servers were first.  We ran them in test for 6 mnths before they'd 
> > let me go live with them.  When I did, both machines were on IBM 
> > maintenance, and were running an (at the time) supported Linux system.  
> > I also had hardware flat out fail, and had *ZERO* downtime.  This type 
> > of event spoke VOLUMES.  Next, I upgraded everything to RH AS 3 before 
> > I left.  As of today, the Linux environments (as *we* would all be 
> > aware) have been the most stable, zero-maintenance environments 
> > in-house.  However, to Joe IT manager, this must be proven through 
> > time and trial.  You can't just run in and install Gentoo and hope it
> works.
> > 
> > In my time at the hospital, I can count total downtime (unscheduled) 
> > within an afternoon's cofee-break time.  We *NEVER* went down without 
> > planning, and then only once (or less) a year.  At one point, our 
> > systems were up more than the mainframe (it has to come down for an 
> > hour tice a year for
> > time-change)
> > 
> > Why do I say all this?
> > 
> > While a simple throw-it and forget-it Linux system may be fine for Joe 
> > shopkeeper, it won't work in the Enterprise.
> > 
> > 
> > Don't take that as a slam.  It isn't.  It's real-world, eterprise 
> > (read
> > data-ceter) class expereience in mission critical (read patient's 
> > records and lives) data environments.  If we want to take over the 
> > world in the Linux arena (read, oust Microsoft) you have to start 
> > grassroots and enterprise simultaneously, and converge toward 
> > Microsoft's territory from both ends so their only place to go is the
> margins...marginalized.
> > 
> > Thanks for listening.
> > 
> > Jerald M. Sheets jr.
> > Sr. UNIX Systems Administrator
> > McKesson, Inc.
> > (404) 293-8762
> > **********
> > >su -
> > Password:
> > # cat /dev/flood > /dev/earth
> > # rdev noah+beasts
> > # dd if=noah+beasts of=/dev/earth
> > 
> > PGP Key: 0x6267F183
> > 
> > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> > Version: 3.12
> > GIT d+ s++: a C++++ UL++++ P++ L+++ E--- W++ N+ o-- K+ w-- O M+ V PS- 
> > PE++ Y+ PGP++ t++ 5++ X+ R* tv- b+ DI++++ D++
> > G+ e h---- r+++ y++++
> > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of 
> > Jeff Hubbs
> > Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 9:43 PM
> > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> > Subject: RE: [ale] Distro Reply
> > 
> > I guess what bothers me about the attitude described here (not saying 
> > that Jerald holds it) is that I had thought that part of the whole 
> > point of using Linux and FOSS in general is that you *weren't* 
> > dependent on a single source or *any* source of conditional support - 
> > the idea being that you as an IT implementor/integrator had inviolate say
> over how your software behaved.
> > This "viable, supported alternative" talk sounds like nothing so much 
> > as wanting the ball and chain back.
> > 
> > I *know* what it's like to be stuck in a certain kind of closed-source 
> > hell where you can't get your app fixed or your peripheral to behave 
> > properly for love *or* money, and I also know what it's like for paid 
> > support reps to turn their nose up at you because the way in which you 
> > needed to adapt their product to your needs was, in their eyes, 
> > "unsupported."  There's nothing about the OS in question being Linux 
> > that keeps implementors out of that wasteland.
> > 
> > Jeff
> > 
> > On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 17:26, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> > > Again, from a business perspective you'd never sell Debian as a 
> > > viable, supported alternative to the pinhead suits.
> > > 
> > > They're getting better, it's just not considered viable on a 
> > > widespread basis yet.
> > > 
> > > Jerald M. Sheets jr.
> > > Sr. UNIX Systems Administrator
> > > McKesson, Inc.
> > > (404) 293-8762
> > > **********
> > > >su -
> > > Password:
> > > # cat /dev/flood > /dev/earth
> > > # rdev noah+beasts
> > > # dd if=noah+beasts of=/dev/earth
> > > 
> > > PGP Key: 0x6267F183
> > > 
> > > -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> > > Version: 3.12
> > > GIT d+ s++: a C++++ UL++++ P++ L+++ E--- W++ N+ o-- K+ w-- O M+ V 
> > > PS-
> > > PE++ Y+ PGP++ t++ 5++ X+ R* tv- b+ DI++++ D++
> > > G+ e h---- r+++ y++++
> > > ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of 
> > > Raylynn Knight
> > > Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 5:12 PM
> > > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> > > Subject: Re: [ale] Distro Reply
> > > 
> > > On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 12:41 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> > > > John P. Healey wrote:
> > > > > Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org> writes:
> > > > > 
> > > > >>Yeah...  I don't get that either.  The most mature products on 
> > > > >>the planet are not an option...
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > He's probably looking to broaden his horizons and explore 
> > > > > packaging systems that aren't rpm based.  Also, I fail to see 
> > > > > how Debian is any less mature than redhat, mandrake, and fedora.
> > > > 
> > > > Stable Debian running a 2.2 kernel.  To me, that is not mature, 
> > > > that is old.  Personal opinion.
> > > > 
> > > Stable Debian is 3.0r4 released on 1 January 2005.  Debian supports 
> > > many hardware architectures, some of which only have a 2.2 kernel.
> > > Debian 3.0 was originally released 19 July 2002 so the default 
> > > install kernel is a 2.2 based kernel, however a 2.4 kernel is 
> > > optional and available on
> > > x86 hardware at boot time.
> > > 
> > >  
> > > --
> > > Raylynn Knight <audilover at speedfactory.net>
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ale mailing list
> > > Ale at ale.org
> > > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> > > 
> > > --
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > > Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 
> > > 12/30/2004
> > >  
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> > 
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004
> >  
> -- 
> James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
> CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
> Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
> 770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
> http://www.localnetsolutions.com
> 
> GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
> <jkinney at localnetsolutions.com> Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659
> 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
> 
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004
>  
>     
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From pete.hardie at gmail.com  Tue Jan  4 01:33:04 2005
From: pete.hardie at gmail.com (Pete Hardie)
Date: Tue Jan  4 01:33:04 2005
Subject: [ale] post-Xmas hardware upgrades
Message-ID: <31b322400501032115396934d4@mail.gmail.com>

As is typical, the kids got some new PC stuff that requires I upgrade
some of their hardware.  Right now, I'm trying to drop 8Mb+ AGP 3D
video into an old Gateway E3200.

The problem is that the AGP slot is not at the edge of the mobo - it's
in the middle of the board.  So I;m looking for a right-angle riser
card so I can use the cheap Radeon AGP card in this box.  I've found
some on eBay for $22 + $7 shipping. Microcenter and Fry's online don't
seem to carry such an item.  Anyone know of a local source for them?

TIA,
Pete

-- 
Better Living Through Bitmaps


From jrickman at gmail.com  Tue Jan  4 02:14:02 2005
From: jrickman at gmail.com (Jonathan Rickman)
Date: Tue Jan  4 02:14:02 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <1104812318.8422.49.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>
References: <200501040407.j0447SZN010331@moat.localnetsolutions.com>
	<1104812318.8422.49.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <2802c52205010322381f5cd709@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 23:18:39 -0500, James P. Kinney III
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com> wrote:

> As long as the XP weak link is out of the picture, SELinux makes the
> system _VERY_ hardened from internal and external attacks.

Just because I can't resist playing the advocate for the evil one, and
because I happen to know a thing or twenty about windows security...

On what basis do you believe that a properly configured SELinux is
superior to a properly configured Windows XP SP2 machine. Both Windows
and Linux are prone to having buggy code. So setting that aside and
just taking for granted that there are no flaws (totally hypothetical
here now) in the code used to generate the software in the first
place, what exactly does SELinux offer in the way of security features
that Windows XP with SP2 and an appropriate local security policy
and/or AD group policy lacks?

I know the technical answers already so there's no need to start a
discussion of MAC vs. DAC, but I'm not seeing the practical
application outside of certain defense related environments. I pretty
much know the HIPAA regs inside and out, or at least I did a year ago
when I still had some interest in it all. There is no requirement for
data labeling or mandatory access controls that is typically seen in
the .mil/.gov arena. Those are really the only practical features
missing from Windows, so I fail to see the justification for using
SELinux to satisfy some imaginary HIPAA requirement. Using that as an
argument against Windows in healthcare is a slippery slope when you
consider how terribly incomplete SELinux is in the framework of the
distributions that make use of it. Comparing it to something like
Trusted Solaris reveals this immediately. SELinux is not a magic
bullet, though it is fairly useful on the server side at the present
time.

--
Jonathan


From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Tue Jan  4 08:20:19 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Tue Jan  4 08:20:19 2005
Subject: [ale] post-Xmas hardware upgrades
In-Reply-To: <31b322400501032115396934d4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <31b322400501032115396934d4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1104844562.8422.58.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>

On Tue, 2005-01-04 at 00:15, Pete Hardie wrote:
> As is typical, the kids got some new PC stuff that requires I upgrade
> some of their hardware.  Right now, I'm trying to drop 8Mb+ AGP 3D
> video into an old Gateway E3200.
> 
> The problem is that the AGP slot is not at the edge of the mobo - it's
> in the middle of the board. 

AGP slots are not at the edge of the board for a reason. It keeps people
from putting the wrong card into them. If the card won't fit into the
slot AND mechanically connect to the case card support frame allowing
access at the back, it's

A. Not an AGP slot
B. Not an AGP card
C. All of the above.

Many older pc's have a proprietary slot that looks similar to the older
AGP slots and are in a similar position. These were used for various
things with wierd modems and very non-standard video cards being the
most common uses.

Odds are good that if you get a right angle adapter and plug in that
video card that you will not get a video signal from or you may damage
it.
>  So I;m looking for a right-angle riser
> card so I can use the cheap Radeon AGP card in this box.  I've found
> some on eBay for $22 + $7 shipping. Microcenter and Fry's online don't
> seem to carry such an item.  Anyone know of a local source for them?
> 
> TIA,
> Pete
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From preston.boyington at mindspring.com  Tue Jan  4 09:20:50 2005
From: preston.boyington at mindspring.com (Preston Boyington)
Date: Tue Jan  4 09:20:50 2005
Subject: [ale] SUSE 9.2 ISOs
In-Reply-To: <20050102212229.6f30c8f7@sumners.ath.cx>
References: <1104690249.860.6.camel@localhost>	<20050102200552.170fe1c8@sumners.ath.cx>	<1104718196.806.19.camel@localhost>
	<20050102212229.6f30c8f7@sumners.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <41DAA542.7000005@mindspring.com>

James Sumners wrote:
> Umm, are you sure? All I see is the personal ISO. I don't think that posting the
> professional ISOs would jive to well with Novell.
> 
> On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 21:09:56 -0500
> Trey Sizemore <trey at fastmail.fm> wrote:
> 

It was the Professional (5 CD) set.  I haven't seen mention of them 
doing it with 9.2 (yet).


From drifter at oppositelock.org  Tue Jan  4 10:19:05 2005
From: drifter at oppositelock.org (Sean Kilpatrick)
Date: Tue Jan  4 10:19:05 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <1104796635.3063.8.camel@blue>
References: <41D9DA22.1060500@geekrus.net> <1104796635.3063.8.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <200501041015.23681.drifter@oppositelock.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Monday 03 January 2005 06:57 pm, Jim Popovitch wrote:
| Uhhh, use a halon extinguisher if you can, those dry-chemical ones make
| too big of a mess.

Can you still buy a halon extinguisher?
Halon was outlawed (by the Coast Guard?) for marine use in fire
supression systems because of potential damage to the ozone layer --
or some other air pollution reason. Of course a ship-board fire causes
air pollution as well, but the greenies screamed louder than marine
interests.

I do not think anything has been found that can match halon's ability
to squelch a fire. Fill a 55 gallon barrel with halon gas and drop a
live hand grenade inside: you will hear a loud "pop." Not "kaboom!"
Wonderful stuff.

Sean

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From Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net  Tue Jan  4 10:23:14 2005
From: Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net (Robert L. Harris)
Date: Tue Jan  4 10:23:14 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <200501041015.23681.drifter@oppositelock.org>
References: <41D9DA22.1060500@geekrus.net> <1104796635.3063.8.camel@blue>
	<200501041015.23681.drifter@oppositelock.org>
Message-ID: <20050104151847.GB5947@rdlg.net>



Last company I was at was putting in a surpression system.  Went with
"FM200" because Halon wasn't available.


Thus spake Sean Kilpatrick (drifter at oppositelock.org):

> On Monday 03 January 2005 06:57 pm, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> | Uhhh, use a halon extinguisher if you can, those dry-chemical ones make
> | too big of a mess.
> 
> Can you still buy a halon extinguisher?
> Halon was outlawed (by the Coast Guard?) for marine use in fire
> supression systems because of potential damage to the ozone layer --
> or some other air pollution reason. Of course a ship-board fire causes
> air pollution as well, but the greenies screamed louder than marine
> interests.
> 
> I do not think anything has been found that can match halon's ability
> to squelch a fire. Fill a 55 gallon barrel with halon gas and drop a
> live hand grenade inside: you will hear a loud "pop." Not "kaboom!"
> Wonderful stuff.
> 
> Sean
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

:wq!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert L. Harris                     | GPG Key ID: E344DA3B
                                         @ x-hkp://pgp.mit.edu
DISCLAIMER:
      These are MY OPINIONS             With Dreams To Be A King,
       ALONE.  I speak for              First One Should Be A Man
       no-one else.                       - Manowar

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From jimpop at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  4 10:40:49 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Tue Jan  4 10:40:49 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <200501041015.23681.drifter@oppositelock.org>
References: <41D9DA22.1060500@geekrus.net> <1104796635.3063.8.camel@blue>
	<200501041015.23681.drifter@oppositelock.org>
Message-ID: <1104853003.4914.0.camel@blue>

On Tue, 2005-01-04 at 10:15 -0500, Sean Kilpatrick wrote:
> Fill a 55 gallon barrel with halon gas and drop a live hand 
> grenade inside: you will hear a loud "pop." Not "kaboom!"
> Wonderful stuff.

:-) 

-Jim P.



From jcole at filink.com  Tue Jan  4 11:12:37 2005
From: jcole at filink.com (John Cole)
Date: Tue Jan  4 11:12:37 2005
Subject: [ale] Question about USB modems and Linux.
Message-ID: <007b01c4f277$b2d26760$1300a8c0@sz1.filink.com>

Howdy all!

I'm working on a project for adding a modem to some servers that we manage.
Currently they are 1u boxes.  It has an external com port but it is
currently unavailable.  We have in stock some cute little HP e-Modems model
UM9100-U.  Does anyone know if these are compatible with linux?  The linux
version is based on the 2.4.23 kernel and can not be easily upgraded.
Barring this, are there any inline USB modems that work with linux?  If not
at all, are there any PCI combo 10/100/100 + modem cards available?

Thanks,
John Cole, TICSA
FiLink


This email and any files transmitted with it are solely intended for the use of the
addressee(s) and may contain information that is confidential and privileged. If 
you receive this email in error, please advise us by return email immediately. 
Please also disregard the contents of the email, delete it and destroy any copies 
immediately. 


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Tue Jan  4 12:12:25 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Tue Jan  4 12:12:25 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <20050103222010.1d87b1d1@sumners.ath.cx>
References: <200501031600.j03G0OIg010511@desdemona.cc.emory.edu>	<fc.00249f0f23107bce3b9aca000b4d0bd1.231085d3@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>	<41D983E0.6090705@3times25.net>
	<1104781281.2410.6.camel@blue>	<41DA0654.4090901@3times25.net>
	<20050103222010.1d87b1d1@sumners.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <41DACDA3.7020703@3times25.net>

James Sumners wrote:
> I wanted to stay out of this conversation, we had it not more than
> two weeks ago, but I am evidently weak. I still don't understand why
> you are hung up on the stable branch defaulting to 2.2. Do you not
> understand what Debian is about and how it achieves its goals?

Yes I do.  THe whole thread was started regarding choosing a distro for 
an production environment.  I can't see putting something into such an 
environment with a kernel that is that old.

> By the way, your statement below applies to Debian as well.

Meaning the will have a release early this year with a 2.6 kernel?

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From preston.boyington at mindspring.com  Tue Jan  4 12:48:57 2005
From: preston.boyington at mindspring.com (Preston Boyington)
Date: Tue Jan  4 12:48:57 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <41D983E0.6090705@3times25.net>
References: <200501031600.j03G0OIg010511@desdemona.cc.emory.edu>	<fc.00249f0f23107bce3b9aca000b4d0bd1.231085d3@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>
	<41D983E0.6090705@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <41DAD609.1090508@mindspring.com>

Geoffrey wrote:
<snipped>
> 
> Stable Debian running a 2.2 kernel.  To me, that is not mature, that is 
> old.  Personal opinion.
> 

you have the option in Debian Stable (Woody) to install either the 2.2 
or 2.4 kernel.  most people don't read the release notes so they get the 
2.2 version (which was the most stable at the time).


From ale1 at cybertechcafe.net  Tue Jan  4 14:26:15 2005
From: ale1 at cybertechcafe.net (Nathan J. Underwood)
Date: Tue Jan  4 14:26:15 2005
Subject: [ale] Antivirus for Linux Servers
In-Reply-To: <41CF04F6.6040304@larp.com>
References: <D5D44A2470D5E444B429857F75A270800257201C@ms07.mse2.exchange.ms>
	<41CF04F6.6040304@larp.com>
Message-ID: <41DAECF4.2040402@cybertechcafe.net>

I'm a big fan of Clam as well.  I've got it deployed on a number of 
machines running Samba and FTP servers, and also have it scanning 
inbound email [via amavisd new].  As mentioned earlier, it's updated 
regularly, very functional, easy to use, and free.
--
registered linux user # 73046

Nathan J. Underwood
Cyber Tech Cafe' <><
http://www.cybertechcafe.net

Jay Finch wrote:
> Personally what I use is "Clam Anti-Virus" -- The database is updated 
> nightly (sometimes twice) and it's easy to set up and configure.  (Plus 
> they're open-source and free...)
> 
> Check them out at: http://www.clamav.net/
> 
> Cheers!
> Jay
> 
> Cordell, Ron wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'd like to get some practical advice about putting antivirus on linux
>> servers. In my specific instance, I've got about 40 servers behind a
>> firewall that run different applications, such as Jboss, IMAP, LDAP,
>> etc. Each of the servers behind this firewall run specialized
>> applications. Users interact with these applications via a web server
>> farm in a DMZ or via a telephone voice interface. We are running
>> iptables on all the servers and only open ports we need, plus we have
>> ACLs around the routers that bridge the firewall between the DMZ and the
>> applications. All of the application servers run under their own
>> non-privileged user account (not root) with the exception of the IMAP
>> and SMTP server(s).
>>
>> So - the reason that I ask this is that we have been resisting putting
>> on A/V products on the Linux servers that are not in the DMZ and behind
>> the firewall and are not running Samba or anything like that, which is
>> almost all of the machines. However, there is some pressure to install
>> A/V on all machines. I'd like to get information from other people's
>> experiences and advice to help in making a more informed decision.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Ron Cordell
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ale mailing list
>> Ale at ale.org
>> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>
>>
>>
>>  
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From jbaldwin at antinode.net  Tue Jan  4 15:12:09 2005
From: jbaldwin at antinode.net (James Baldwin)
Date: Tue Jan  4 15:12:09 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <20050104032842.C565027521@nu.rasterburn.org>
References: <20050104032842.C565027521@nu.rasterburn.org>
Message-ID: <5F96521C-5E8C-11D9-A47C-000D93C280F2@antinode.net>

On 3 Jan 2005, at 22:28, Jerald Sheets wrote:

> Don't take that as a slam.  It isn't.  It's real-world, eterprise (read
> data-ceter) class expereience in mission critical (read patient's 
> records
> and lives) data environments.

The speech by Dan Klein of USENIX at LISA 2004 was spot on wrt Linux in 
mission critical applications.

Description: "We all know that "Linux is better than Windows." Few 
intelligent people would board a fly-by-wire airplane that was 
controlled by Microsoft Windows. So how about Linux? When your life is 
at stake, your attitudes change considerably. Better than Windows, 
yes?but better enough? This talk will look at what it takes to make 
software truly mission-critical and man-rated. We'll go back to the 
earliest fly-by-wire systems?Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo?and look at 
such diverse (but critical!) issues such as compartmentalization, 
trojans and terrorism, auditing and accountability, bugs and boundary 
conditions, distributed authoring, and revision control. At the end of 
this talk, what you thought might be an easy answer will be seen to be 
not so easy."

Presentation slides can be found here: 
http://www.usenix.org/events/lisa04/tech/talks/klein.pdf

On 4 Jan 2005, at 12:08, Geoffrey wrote:

> Yes I do.  THe whole thread was started regarding choosing a distro 
> for an production environment.  I can't see putting something into 
> such an environment with a kernel that is that old.

I think you're confusing a feature freeze with a code freeze. While the 
earlier kernels (2.0, 2.2, and 2.4) are no longer actively _extended_ 
they are actively maintained. Bug fixes and security fixes are back 
ported.

For instance, the latest 2.4 kernel is from Nov 17th, so the feature 
set is "old" but the kernel is not.

Likewise with the software in the Debian package management system. 
Software in the stable branch incorporates bug fixes and security 
fixes, however, it does not incorporate new and untested features and 
code.

---
James Baldwin
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From esoteric at 3times25.net  Tue Jan  4 16:04:48 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Tue Jan  4 16:04:48 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <5F96521C-5E8C-11D9-A47C-000D93C280F2@antinode.net>
References: <20050104032842.C565027521@nu.rasterburn.org>
	<5F96521C-5E8C-11D9-A47C-000D93C280F2@antinode.net>
Message-ID: <41DB0415.8070506@3times25.net>

James Baldwin wrote:

> On 4 Jan 2005, at 12:08, Geoffrey wrote:
> 
>> Yes I do.  THe whole thread was started regarding choosing a distro 
>> for an production environment.  I can't see putting something into 
>> such an environment with a kernel that is that old.
> 
> 
> I think you're confusing a feature freeze with a code freeze. While the 
> earlier kernels (2.0, 2.2, and 2.4) are no longer actively _extended_ 
> they are actively maintained. Bug fixes and security fixes are back ported.

No, I'm not.  The point is, point me to any other distro that's sitting 
on kernel 2.2 as the default kernel at this time?  I know the kernels 
are still maintained, but there are things in 2.4/2.6 that you will not 
find in 2.2.  There are changes that can not be backported.


Oh, you really shouldn't respond to two messages in one response like 
that, it can screw up threading.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From mhirsch at nubridges.com  Tue Jan  4 16:08:49 2005
From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael Hirsch)
Date: Tue Jan  4 16:08:49 2005
Subject: [ale] Mandrake 10.1 Official & K3b
Message-ID: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF02591FBB@germanium.numethods.com>

This is very interesting to me.  I'm also running Mandrake 10.1 with
kernel 2.6.8.1-12 and am having no troubles.  I can burn CDs as myself
without needing to be root, or use sudo.

Which version of k3b are you using?  I've upgraded all the KDE tools.
Mandrake club has upgraded versions of all the KDE tools which might
help.

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
Raylynn Knight
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 5:14 AM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] Mandrake 10.1 Official & K3b

On Tue, 2004-12-28 at 05:46 -0500, Sergio Chaves wrote:
>  From K3b.org:
> 
> 
>   "Do not use Kernel 2.6.8
> 
> A patch that was introduced into the kernel shortly before the 2.6.8 
> release makes K3b and also the dvd+rw-tools unusable on Linux (unless 
> run as root but that is not recommended). The very important GET 
> CONFIGURATION MMC command is rejected by the kernel for reasons I
cannot 
> see and writing commands like MODE SELECT also fail (K3b cannot detect

> CD writers without it) even when the device is opened O_RDWR. Until
this 
> issue has been solved I strongly recommend to stick to kernel version 
> 2.6.7.
> 
> Update: The kernel guys are currently fixing the problem so the next 
> kernel release should work again. :)
> 
> Update 2: The problem is NOT fixed in 2.6.8.1
> 
> Update 3: Be aware that kernel 2.6.8 also contains the memory leak
which 
> makes it impossible to write audio cds, even as root."
> 
> I use mandrake 10.1 and upgraded to kernel 2.6.8.1-12mdk.
> I also had to change the permissions on /dev/cdrom - /dev/dvd to let
me 
> use it. originaly, only root had access to it.
> 
> My 2 cents.
> 
Kernel 2.6.8.1-10 and 2.6.8.1-12 both from Mandrake don't solve the
problem.  Reverting to the last kernel I had for Mandrake 10.0
(2.6.3-19mdk) and rebooting gives me a working k3b.  Rebooting again
with the 2.6.8.1-10 or 2.6.8.1-12 kernels gives me a non-working k3b.
I'd say this is a problem with the 2.6.8.1 kernels.  I guess Mandrake
doesn't do a very good job of testing the functionality of their kernel
updates!!!

-- 
Raylynn Knight <audilover at speedfactory.net>

_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale



From jcole at filink.com  Tue Jan  4 16:10:56 2005
From: jcole at filink.com (John Cole)
Date: Tue Jan  4 16:10:56 2005
Subject: [ale] Problems with a modem.
Message-ID: <008801c4f2a1$6290f4e0$1300a8c0@sz1.filink.com>

Howdy all!

I'm delving into dial-up and modems and linux!  I've installed a more recent
version of Minicom than was on the server system before.
(minicom-2.1-1-rh7.3.i386.rpm instead of minicom-1.83.1-8.i386.rpm)  I have
a USR 33.6 external modem connected to Com1 /dev/ttyS0.  When I turn on the
modem it has AA and CD lights already on and Minicom immediately things I'm
online.  I try having Minicom hangup and also +++ ATH0 but it doesn't seem
to do anything.  Anyone have any ideas?

Btw, is there anything like the old "Modem Doctor" program for Linux instead
of DOS?

Thanks,
John Cole, TICSA
FiLink


This email and any files transmitted with it are solely intended for the use of the
addressee(s) and may contain information that is confidential and privileged. If 
you receive this email in error, please advise us by return email immediately. 
Please also disregard the contents of the email, delete it and destroy any copies 
immediately. 


From jb at sourceillustrated.com  Tue Jan  4 16:14:32 2005
From: jb at sourceillustrated.com (John Wells)
Date: Tue Jan  4 16:14:32 2005
Subject: [ale] MSH
Message-ID: <20050104171731.kztckxvgpmhw0gc8@devsea.com>

http://weblog.infoworld.com/udell/2004/11/02.html#a1106
http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/10/29/44OPstrategic_1.html

IMHO, one of Window's biggest irritations has been it's lack of a decent console
and command shell.  Read the above articles...MSH changes that in very powerful
ways.

Anyone aware of any efforts to take Unix shells to the next level in MSH-like
ways?  While very powerful, I'd have to agree that the *nix shells could use an
upgrade.

Thanks,
John


From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Tue Jan  4 16:15:25 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Tue Jan  4 16:15:25 2005
Subject: [ale] Problems with a modem.
In-Reply-To: <008801c4f2a1$6290f4e0$1300a8c0@sz1.filink.com>
References: <008801c4f2a1$6290f4e0$1300a8c0@sz1.filink.com>
Message-ID: <1104873106.13323.16.camel@linux.linxdev.com>

Are you using a modem cable or null-modem cable?  What type of modem? 
AA = Auto Answer
CD = carrier Detect

On Tue, 2005-01-04 at 16:07, John Cole wrote:
> Howdy all!
> 
> I'm delving into dial-up and modems and linux!  I've installed a more recent
> version of Minicom than was on the server system before.
> (minicom-2.1-1-rh7.3.i386.rpm instead of minicom-1.83.1-8.i386.rpm)  I have
> a USR 33.6 external modem connected to Com1 /dev/ttyS0.  When I turn on the
> modem it has AA and CD lights already on and Minicom immediately things I'm
> online.  I try having Minicom hangup and also +++ ATH0 but it doesn't seem
> to do anything.  Anyone have any ideas?
> 
> Btw, is there anything like the old "Modem Doctor" program for Linux instead
> of DOS?
> 
> Thanks,
> John Cole, TICSA
> FiLink
> 
> 
> This email and any files transmitted with it are solely intended for the use of the
> addressee(s) and may contain information that is confidential and privileged. If 
> you receive this email in error, please advise us by return email immediately. 
> Please also disregard the contents of the email, delete it and destroy any copies 
> immediately. 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From ale1 at cybertechcafe.net  Tue Jan  4 16:20:22 2005
From: ale1 at cybertechcafe.net (Nathan J. Underwood)
Date: Tue Jan  4 16:20:22 2005
Subject: [ale] OS Windows text editor for Unix files
In-Reply-To: <200501022250.55472.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <20041224203721.207F6298862@mx1.toughguy.net>
	<200501022250.55472.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <41DB07BD.9080406@cybertechcafe.net>

Just downloaded and installed Crimson Editor, and have to say it rocks!! 
  All the goodness of UltraEdit32 (that I use), but free.
--
registered linux user # 73046

Nathan J. Underwood
Cyber Tech Cafe' <><
http://www.cybertechcafe.net

Jay Loden wrote:
> Just in case you didn't find something you like already, I recommend two 
> choices.  If you are looking for basically notepad, but with the ability to 
> read Unix files and show line numbers, I recommend Win32Pad - written in 
> straight C with the Win32 API, fast, solid, small, and great. 
> http://www.gena01.com/win32pad/
> 
> If you want a solid text editor with TONS of programmer friendly features 
> (honestly, I've always wished it ran on Linux, I like it that much) and, of 
> course, the ability to read those Unix files, check out Crimson Editor 
> http://crimsoneditor.com/
> 
> Since I didn't see anyone else recommending them, I thought I'd toss them into 
> the mix.  PFE is really good, but Win32Pad or Crimson Editor are at least 
> equal to it, and they're still actively developed and supported.  Both 
> editors I mentioned are free programs.
> -Jay
> 
> 
>>On Fri, 2004-12-24 at 09:41 +0100, Rene Rasmussen wrote:
>>
>>>On Friday 24 December 2004 04:57, John Mills wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>John Wells wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I'm looking for a free (as in speech, hopefully) text editor
>>>>>>>>that can properly read and print these files on the windows
>>>>>>>>side.  JEdit is the only free one that's done a good job
>>>>>>>>recognizing the line feeds and  EOLs, but the printing is
>>>>>>>>horrible.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Tue Jan  4 16:23:10 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Tue Jan  4 16:23:10 2005
Subject: [ale] MSH
In-Reply-To: <20050104171731.kztckxvgpmhw0gc8@devsea.com>
References: <20050104171731.kztckxvgpmhw0gc8@devsea.com>
Message-ID: <1104873571.13323.21.camel@linux.linxdev.com>

IMO what is worse is the lack of a decent POSIX implementation in
Windows that is native and not emulated.

This is stupid:
At its core, MSH is an object pipeline. Unix, of course, invented the
pipelining concept. But in Unix-like systems -- including Linux and OS X
-- the data that?s passed from one command to the next is weakly
structured ASCII text. When you?ve got smart, self-describing objects
flowing through that pipeline, it?s a whole new ball game.

I wish that people who wish to discuss UNIX internals do so after having
experience in UNIX. 

I like Objects just like the next fellow but Objects = Bloat.  Bloat
equals loss of memory and slowness.


On Tue, 2005-01-04 at 17:17, John Wells wrote:
> http://weblog.infoworld.com/udell/2004/11/02.html#a1106
> http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/10/29/44OPstrategic_1.html
> 
> IMHO, one of Window's biggest irritations has been it's lack of a decent console
> and command shell.  Read the above articles...MSH changes that in very powerful
> ways.
> 
> Anyone aware of any efforts to take Unix shells to the next level in MSH-like
> ways?  While very powerful, I'd have to agree that the *nix shells could use an
> upgrade.
> 
> Thanks,
> John
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Tue Jan  4 16:23:50 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Tue Jan  4 16:23:50 2005
Subject: [ale] Problems with a modem.
In-Reply-To: <008801c4f2a1$6290f4e0$1300a8c0@sz1.filink.com>
References: <008801c4f2a1$6290f4e0$1300a8c0@sz1.filink.com>
Message-ID: <1104873603.13323.23.camel@linux.linxdev.com>

Also, what are you trying to accomplish?

On Tue, 2005-01-04 at 16:07, John Cole wrote:
> Howdy all!
> 
> I'm delving into dial-up and modems and linux!  I've installed a more recent
> version of Minicom than was on the server system before.
> (minicom-2.1-1-rh7.3.i386.rpm instead of minicom-1.83.1-8.i386.rpm)  I have
> a USR 33.6 external modem connected to Com1 /dev/ttyS0.  When I turn on the
> modem it has AA and CD lights already on and Minicom immediately things I'm
> online.  I try having Minicom hangup and also +++ ATH0 but it doesn't seem
> to do anything.  Anyone have any ideas?
> 
> Btw, is there anything like the old "Modem Doctor" program for Linux instead
> of DOS?
> 
> Thanks,
> John Cole, TICSA
> FiLink
> 
> 
> This email and any files transmitted with it are solely intended for the use of the
> addressee(s) and may contain information that is confidential and privileged. If 
> you receive this email in error, please advise us by return email immediately. 
> Please also disregard the contents of the email, delete it and destroy any copies 
> immediately. 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From scherrey at proteus-tech.com  Tue Jan  4 16:30:41 2005
From: scherrey at proteus-tech.com (Benjamin Scherrey)
Date: Tue Jan  4 16:30:41 2005
Subject: [ale] Expand newsgroup names in Mozilla Thunderbird
Message-ID: <41DB0A2B.5020502@proteus-tech.com>

Does anyone know how to stop the newsgroups listing from using the 
shortcuts (i.e. comp.jobs becomes c.jobs) in Thunderbird? Under the full 
Mozilla its an option under about:config but I can't figure out how to 
do it in the standalone Thunderbird. Also - does Thunderbird have an 
option to display the number of total or read messages in a mail folder 
rather than just the unread count?
    thanx & later,

       Ben Scherrey


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  4 16:35:20 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Tue Jan  4 16:35:20 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <41DB0415.8070506@3times25.net>
References: <20050104032842.C565027521@nu.rasterburn.org>
	<5F96521C-5E8C-11D9-A47C-000D93C280F2@antinode.net>
	<41DB0415.8070506@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <1104874270.8446.3.camel@blue>

On Tue, 2005-01-04 at 16:01 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:

> No, I'm not.  The point is, point me to any other distro that's sitting 
> on kernel 2.2 as the default kernel at this time?  

There isn't one that I know of.

> I know the kernels are still maintained, but there are things in 2.4/2.6 
> that you will not find in 2.2.  

Very true.  Why go with a 2.2 kernel then?  Debian Stable is not what
you want if you don't want a 2.2 or 2.4 kernel.  HOWEVER, if you were
looking for a stable distribution, and you didn't need kernel 2.6
features, then Debian Stable is arguable one of the *most* stable
distributions out there. 

> There are changes that can not be backported.

"Changes" generally are not the purpose of backporting.  "Fixes" is a
more appropriate word.

-Jim P.






From esoteric at 3times25.net  Tue Jan  4 16:40:58 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Tue Jan  4 16:40:58 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <1104874270.8446.3.camel@blue>
References: <20050104032842.C565027521@nu.rasterburn.org>	<5F96521C-5E8C-11D9-A47C-000D93C280F2@antinode.net>	<41DB0415.8070506@3times25.net>
	<1104874270.8446.3.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <41DB0C91.9040402@3times25.net>

Jim Popovitch wrote:
> On Tue, 2005-01-04 at 16:01 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> 
> 
>>No, I'm not.  The point is, point me to any other distro that's sitting 
>>on kernel 2.2 as the default kernel at this time?  
> 
> 
> There isn't one that I know of.
> 
> 
>>I know the kernels are still maintained, but there are things in 2.4/2.6 
>>that you will not find in 2.2.  
> 
> Very true.  Why go with a 2.2 kernel then?  Debian Stable is not what
> you want if you don't want a 2.2 or 2.4 kernel.  HOWEVER, if you were
> looking for a stable distribution, and you didn't need kernel 2.6
> features, then Debian Stable is arguable one of the *most* stable
> distributions out there.

As you noted, arguably...

>>There are changes that can not be backported.
> 
> 
> "Changes" generally are not the purpose of backporting.  "Fixes" is a
> more appropriate word.

No, I meant changes.  Point is, there are enhancements in the later 
kernels that you will not find in the earlier kernels.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  4 16:51:42 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Tue Jan  4 16:51:42 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <41DB0C91.9040402@3times25.net>
References: <20050104032842.C565027521@nu.rasterburn.org>
	<5F96521C-5E8C-11D9-A47C-000D93C280F2@antinode.net>
	<41DB0415.8070506@3times25.net> <1104874270.8446.3.camel@blue>
	<41DB0C91.9040402@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <1104875250.8660.3.camel@blue>

On Tue, 2005-01-04 at 16:37 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> > 
> > "Changes" generally are not the purpose of backporting.  "Fixes" is a
> > more appropriate word.
> 
> No, I meant changes.  

I'm not disputing what you meant, I was just point to a more accurate
use wrt Debian.

> Point is, there are enhancements in the later 
> kernels that you will not find in the earlier kernels.

Again, very true.  However, what you desire doesn't exist in Debian
Stable (nor will it ever).  

What you need is something RH'ish or SUSE'ish.

-Jim P.





From james at sumners.ath.cx  Tue Jan  4 17:52:35 2005
From: james at sumners.ath.cx (James Sumners)
Date: Tue Jan  4 17:52:35 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <41DACDA3.7020703@3times25.net>
References: <200501031600.j03G0OIg010511@desdemona.cc.emory.edu>
	<fc.00249f0f23107bce3b9aca000b4d0bd1.231085d3@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>
	<41D983E0.6090705@3times25.net> <1104781281.2410.6.camel@blue>
	<41DA0654.4090901@3times25.net>
	<20050103222010.1d87b1d1@sumners.ath.cx>
	<41DACDA3.7020703@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <20050104174859.14cb1ddd@sumners.ath.cx>

Yes.

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 12:08:51 -0500
Geoffrey <esoteric at 3times25.net> wrote:

> Meaning the will have a release early this year with a 2.6 kernel?

-- 
James Sumners
http://ug.dyndns.org/~jsumners/

"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological
personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the
corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a
condition to which they are quickly addicted."

Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto)
CH:D 59


From james at sumners.ath.cx  Tue Jan  4 17:55:39 2005
From: james at sumners.ath.cx (James Sumners)
Date: Tue Jan  4 17:55:39 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <1104875250.8660.3.camel@blue>
References: <20050104032842.C565027521@nu.rasterburn.org>
	<5F96521C-5E8C-11D9-A47C-000D93C280F2@antinode.net>
	<41DB0415.8070506@3times25.net> <1104874270.8446.3.camel@blue>
	<41DB0C91.9040402@3times25.net> <1104875250.8660.3.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <20050104175143.6a23d81b@sumners.ath.cx>

Seriously, who really cares what kernel version a distribution ships with as
long as it is recent enough to get the machine loaded or the option to use a
more recent kernel is provided? The kernel is not the operating system. The
kernel is replaceable.

The Debian stable branch does not get ANY new packages after it is frozen and
shipped except for security updates. When you install the release version of
Debian you KNOW what you are getting and can expect it to run until the machine
catches on fire.

You are correct, the point of this thread was to find a distribution that would
be good to use on a production server. You are incorrect in making the assertion
that the release version of Debian is not a good suggestion based solely on the
fact that you don't like the default kernel version. Several people have tried
to get you to explain why you make that statement and discount the whole
operating system because of it but all you return with is something to the
effect of "2.2 is old. Newer kernels have newer stuff." While that is true, it
has not bearing on stability nor is it a good reply that supports your opinion.

-- 
James Sumners
http://ug.dyndns.org/~jsumners/

"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological
personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the
corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a
condition to which they are quickly addicted."

Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto)
CH:D 59


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Tue Jan  4 18:30:31 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Tue Jan  4 18:30:31 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <20050104175143.6a23d81b@sumners.ath.cx>
References: <20050104032842.C565027521@nu.rasterburn.org>	<5F96521C-5E8C-11D9-A47C-000D93C280F2@antinode.net>	<41DB0415.8070506@3times25.net>
	<1104874270.8446.3.camel@blue>	<41DB0C91.9040402@3times25.net>
	<1104875250.8660.3.camel@blue>
	<20050104175143.6a23d81b@sumners.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <41DB2640.5070409@3times25.net>

James Sumners wrote:
> Seriously, who really cares what kernel version a distribution ships
> with as long as it is recent enough to get the machine loaded or the
> option to use a more recent kernel is provided? The kernel is not the
> operating system. The kernel is replaceable.

You're kidding right?  I could get a box running with a 1. kernel.

> The Debian stable branch does not get ANY new packages after it is
> frozen and shipped except for security updates. When you install the
> release version of Debian you KNOW what you are getting and can
> expect it to run until the machine catches on fire.
> 
> You are correct, the point of this thread was to find a distribution
> that would be good to use on a production server. You are incorrect
> in making the assertion that the release version of Debian is not a
> good suggestion based solely on the fact that you don't like the
> default kernel version. Several people have tried to get you to
> explain why you make that statement and discount the whole operating
> system because of it but all you return with is something to the 
> effect of "2.2 is old. Newer kernels have newer stuff." While that is
> true, it has not bearing on stability nor is it a good reply that
> supports your opinion.

I'm not going to regurgitate the changelogs and readme files for the 
kernels.  There have been all kinds of changes between 2.2 and 2.6, 
including optimizations and yes, stability issues that will never find 
their way into 2.2.

Just one simple example is that the 2.6 kernel supports prism54 
wireless, prior to 2.6, you'd have to patch and recompile a new kernel.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  4 19:19:37 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Tue Jan  4 19:19:37 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <41DB2640.5070409@3times25.net>
References: <20050104032842.C565027521@nu.rasterburn.org>
	<5F96521C-5E8C-11D9-A47C-000D93C280F2@antinode.net>
	<41DB0415.8070506@3times25.net> <1104874270.8446.3.camel@blue>
	<41DB0C91.9040402@3times25.net> <1104875250.8660.3.camel@blue>
	<20050104175143.6a23d81b@sumners.ath.cx>
	<41DB2640.5070409@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <1104884124.9592.5.camel@blue>

On Tue, 2005-01-04 at 18:26 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:

> You're kidding right?  I could get a box running with a 1. kernel.

This has now become a "my <insert-favorite-body-part> is bigger than
yours" conversation.  Now if someone would just mention hitler we can
put this thing to rest.

> I'm not going to regurgitate the changelogs and readme files for the 
> kernels.  There have been all kinds of changes between 2.2 and 2.6, 
> including optimizations and yes, stability issues that will never find 
> their way into 2.2.
> 
> Just one simple example is that the 2.6 kernel supports prism54 
> wireless, prior to 2.6, you'd have to patch and recompile a new kernel.

Fine.  Go with a newer kernel.  Again, you are bitching about Debian Stable 
not supporting everything you want, yet you are hesitant to move on to 
something that does. <sigh>

-Jim P.






From mpwright at speedfactory.net  Tue Jan  4 19:27:14 2005
From: mpwright at speedfactory.net (Mark Wright)
Date: Tue Jan  4 19:27:14 2005
Subject: [ale] Problems with a modem.
In-Reply-To: <008801c4f2a1$6290f4e0$1300a8c0@sz1.filink.com>
References: <008801c4f2a1$6290f4e0$1300a8c0@sz1.filink.com>
Message-ID: <095EC874-5EB0-11D9-AF5C-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>

I just went round and round with a USR 56K modem until I decided to 
replace it.  I was trying to connect to Earthlink.  For some reason the 
USR modem would not pass the account authentication info correctly.  I 
dug up an old microcom 28.8 that worked fine.

But back to your problem, Why are you using minicom and not your 
disto's default dialer?  Mini com is great for manually making a 
connection or trouble shooting but you should have "pon" and "pof" 
scripts that will dial up your ISP with wvdial, pass your logon 
credentials and set up a PPP session.  KDE has a nice wizard to config 
this through the GUI.   What are you trying to talk to?  I noticed 
after my modem had reached the LCP timeout threshold it would drop the 
line but the dialer wvdial or chat would still act like it was 
connected.  I had to manually hang up the modem or it would stay 
"connected" all night.

This is a link to a great write up on dial up networking.

http://axion.physics.ubc.ca/ppp-linux.html


Mark


On Jan 4, 2005, at 4:07 PM, John Cole wrote:

> Howdy all!
>
> I'm delving into dial-up and modems and linux!  I've installed a more 
> recent
> version of Minicom than was on the server system before.
> (minicom-2.1-1-rh7.3.i386.rpm instead of minicom-1.83.1-8.i386.rpm)  I 
> have
> a USR 33.6 external modem connected to Com1 /dev/ttyS0.  When I turn 
> on the
> modem it has AA and CD lights already on and Minicom immediately 
> things I'm
> online.  I try having Minicom hangup and also +++ ATH0 but it doesn't 
> seem
> to do anything.  Anyone have any ideas?
>
> Btw, is there anything like the old "Modem Doctor" program for Linux 
> instead
> of DOS?
>
> Thanks,
> John Cole, TICSA
> FiLink
>
>
> This email and any files transmitted with it are solely intended for 
> the use of the
> addressee(s) and may contain information that is confidential and 
> privileged. If
> you receive this email in error, please advise us by return email 
> immediately.
> Please also disregard the contents of the email, delete it and destroy 
> any copies
> immediately.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>


From dcorbin at machturtle.com  Tue Jan  4 20:01:27 2005
From: dcorbin at machturtle.com (David Corbin)
Date: Tue Jan  4 20:01:27 2005
Subject: [ale] GTK font sizes
In-Reply-To: <41D97CD0.9070303@alltc.com>
References: <200501030859.17789.dcorbin@enttek.com>
	<41D97CD0.9070303@alltc.com>
Message-ID: <200501041957.48692.dcorbin@machturtle.com>

> David Corbin wrote:
> | Suddenly, all my GTK based applications are using "really small fonts".
> | barley legible at the high-resolution that I run my KDE desktop at.
>
> The only
>
> | thing i did (honest) was to move my system from one building to
>
> another.  As
>
> | I recall, all my fonts started coming up small, but I've changed my KDE
> | settings, and now everything is reasonable except the fonts in GTK
>
> widgets.
>
> | Ideas?
> |
> | David
>
> David,
> ~    When I was still using KDE, my GTK fonts were all nutso like that,
> too.  I mucked about with ~/.gtkrc and ~/.gtkrc-2.0 and things shaped
> up.  When I switched to Gnome, I accepted the defaults to overwrite my
> kludge of setting the aforementioned files.  My distro is Debian
> unstable/sid on PowerPC.


Thanks.  That was it.  Not sure where it came from but I had a font-name 
define in .gtkrc-2.0.


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  4 20:04:48 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Tue Jan  4 20:04:48 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <2802c52205010322381f5cd709@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.46.1104887086.18563.ale@ale.org>

Windows and secure in the same post.

HAH!

The only way it (or any other system) even remotely approaches secure is in
an empty room, unplugged from both electricity and network, and turned off. 

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Jonathan
Rickman
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 1:39 AM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] Distro Reply

On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 23:18:39 -0500, James P. Kinney III
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com> wrote:

> As long as the XP weak link is out of the picture, SELinux makes the 
> system _VERY_ hardened from internal and external attacks.

Just because I can't resist playing the advocate for the evil one, and
because I happen to know a thing or twenty about windows security...

On what basis do you believe that a properly configured SELinux is superior
to a properly configured Windows XP SP2 machine. Both Windows and Linux are
prone to having buggy code. So setting that aside and just taking for
granted that there are no flaws (totally hypothetical here now) in the code
used to generate the software in the first place, what exactly does SELinux
offer in the way of security features that Windows XP with SP2 and an
appropriate local security policy and/or AD group policy lacks?

I know the technical answers already so there's no need to start a
discussion of MAC vs. DAC, but I'm not seeing the practical application
outside of certain defense related environments. I pretty much know the
HIPAA regs inside and out, or at least I did a year ago when I still had
some interest in it all. There is no requirement for data labeling or
mandatory access controls that is typically seen in the .mil/.gov arena.
Those are really the only practical features missing from Windows, so I fail
to see the justification for using SELinux to satisfy some imaginary HIPAA
requirement. Using that as an argument against Windows in healthcare is a
slippery slope when you consider how terribly incomplete SELinux is in the
framework of the distributions that make use of it. Comparing it to
something like Trusted Solaris reveals this immediately. SELinux is not a
magic bullet, though it is fairly useful on the server side at the present
time.

--
Jonathan
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 12/30/2004
 

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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.8 - Release Date: 1/3/2005
 


From sriad at uab.edu  Tue Jan  4 20:19:38 2005
From: sriad at uab.edu (Aditya Srinivasan)
Date: Tue Jan  4 20:19:38 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <200501050101.j0511LM06395@lilith.dpo.uab.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0501041910520.10842-100000@metric.it.uab.edu>

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005, Jerald Sheets wrote:

> The only way it (or any other system) even remotely approaches secure is in
> an empty room, unplugged from both electricity and network, and turned off. 

I know I've read that somewhere before ... (without the electricity bit) 
and the author ended with ... "and even then I have my doubts".

Can't remember where .... help me out here..

Thanks,
sriad



From jsheets at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  4 20:23:00 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Tue Jan  4 20:23:00 2005
Subject: [ale] Get this, guys...
Message-ID: <mailman.47.1104888179.18563.ale@ale.org>

Someone just tried to get me to come out and contract in Oregon for $20/hr.
No travel, no per deim, no bennies.

Sheesh...  That's an insult.

Jerald M. Sheets jr.
Sr. UNIX Systems Administrator
McKesson, Inc.
(404) 293-8762
**********
>su -
Password:
# cat /dev/flood > /dev/earth
# rdev noah+beasts
# dd if=noah+beasts of=/dev/earth

PGP Key: 0x6267F183

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GIT d+ s++: a C++++ UL++++ P++ L+++ E--- W++ N+ o-- K+ w-- 
O M+ V PS- PE++ Y+ PGP++ t++ 5++ X+ R* tv- b+ DI++++ D++ 
G+ e h---- r+++ y++++ 
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.8 - Release Date: 1/3/2005
 


From kwc at TheWorld.com  Tue Jan  4 20:23:44 2005
From: kwc at TheWorld.com (Kenneth W Cochran)
Date: Tue Jan  4 20:23:44 2005
Subject: [ale] Problems with a modem.
References: <008801c4f2a1$6290f4e0$1300a8c0@sz1.filink.com>
Message-ID: <200501050120.UAA5787040@shell.TheWorld.com>

>From: Mark Wright <mpwright at speedfactory.net>
>Subject: Re: [ale] Problems with a modem.
>Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 19:23:34 -0500
>To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org>
>
>I just went round and round with a USR 56K modem until I decided to
>replace it.  I was trying to connect to Earthlink.  For some reason the
>USR modem would not pass the account authentication info correctly.  I
>dug up an old microcom 28.8 that worked fine.

That's not an issue of the modem but rather the program and/or
chat-script talking with it.  USR & Microcom use slightly
different command syntax, as do most all different modem
makes/models.

>But back to your problem, Why are you using minicom and not your
>disto's default dialer?  Mini com is great for manually making a

He hasn't answered the question (yet? :) about what he's
trying to "do" but maybe he's interested in "terminal mode?"
I still use that quite often with c-Kermit.

>connection or trouble shooting but you should have "pon" and "pof"
>scripts that will dial up your ISP with wvdial, pass your logon
>credentials and set up a PPP session.  KDE has a nice wizard to config

[...]

>Mark
>
>On Jan 4, 2005, at 4:07 PM, John Cole wrote:
>
>> Howdy all!
>>
>> I'm delving into dial-up and modems and linux!  I've installed a more recent
>> version of Minicom than was on the server system before.
>> (minicom-2.1-1-rh7.3.i386.rpm instead of minicom-1.83.1-8.i386.rpm)  I have
>> a USR 33.6 external modem connected to Com1 /dev/ttyS0.  When I turn on the
>> modem it has AA and CD lights already on and Minicom immediately things I'm
>> online.  I try having Minicom hangup and also +++ ATH0 but it doesn't seem
>> to do anything.  Anyone have any ideas?
>>
>> Btw, is there anything like the old "Modem Doctor" program for Linux instead
>> of DOS?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> John Cole, TICSA
>> FiLink


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Tue Jan  4 20:24:29 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Tue Jan  4 20:24:29 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0501041910520.10842-100000@metric.it.uab.edu>
Message-ID: <mailman.48.1104888269.18563.ale@ale.org>

I believe it was Simson and Garfinkle's "Practical Internet Security", but
I'm not getting up from the Orange Bowl to look.

:-D

Jerald M. Sheets jr.
Sr. UNIX Systems Administrator
McKesson, Inc.
(404) 293-8762
**********
>su -
Password:
# cat /dev/flood > /dev/earth
# rdev noah+beasts
# dd if=noah+beasts of=/dev/earth

PGP Key: 0x6267F183

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GIT d+ s++: a C++++ UL++++ P++ L+++ E--- W++ N+ o-- K+ w-- 
O M+ V PS- PE++ Y+ PGP++ t++ 5++ X+ R* tv- b+ DI++++ D++ 
G+ e h---- r+++ y++++ 
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK----- 

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Aditya
Srinivasan
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 8:16 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: RE: [ale] Distro Reply

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005, Jerald Sheets wrote:

> The only way it (or any other system) even remotely approaches secure 
> is in an empty room, unplugged from both electricity and network, and
turned off.

I know I've read that somewhere before ... (without the electricity bit) and
the author ended with ... "and even then I have my doubts".

Can't remember where .... help me out here..

Thanks,
sriad


_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.8 - Release Date: 1/3/2005
 

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.8 - Release Date: 1/3/2005
 


From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Tue Jan  4 20:35:35 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Tue Jan  4 20:35:35 2005
Subject: [ale] Problems with a modem.
In-Reply-To: <200501050120.UAA5787040@shell.TheWorld.com>
References: <008801c4f2a1$6290f4e0$1300a8c0@sz1.filink.com>
	<200501050120.UAA5787040@shell.TheWorld.com>
Message-ID: <1104888718.13323.43.camel@linux.linxdev.com>

Here is what I use for simple terminal like access:

http://www.linuxjunkies.org/programming/lang/cc/ladsrc/robin.c

On Tue, 2005-01-04 at 20:20, Kenneth W Cochran wrote:
> >From: Mark Wright <mpwright at speedfactory.net>
> >Subject: Re: [ale] Problems with a modem.
> >Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2005 19:23:34 -0500
> >To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org>
> >
> >I just went round and round with a USR 56K modem until I decided to
> >replace it.  I was trying to connect to Earthlink.  For some reason the
> >USR modem would not pass the account authentication info correctly.  I
> >dug up an old microcom 28.8 that worked fine.
> 
> That's not an issue of the modem but rather the program and/or
> chat-script talking with it.  USR & Microcom use slightly
> different command syntax, as do most all different modem
> makes/models.
> 
> >But back to your problem, Why are you using minicom and not your
> >disto's default dialer?  Mini com is great for manually making a
> 
> He hasn't answered the question (yet? :) about what he's
> trying to "do" but maybe he's interested in "terminal mode?"
> I still use that quite often with c-Kermit.
> 
> >connection or trouble shooting but you should have "pon" and "pof"
> >scripts that will dial up your ISP with wvdial, pass your logon
> >credentials and set up a PPP session.  KDE has a nice wizard to config
> 
> [...]
> 
> >Mark
> >
> >On Jan 4, 2005, at 4:07 PM, John Cole wrote:
> >
> >> Howdy all!
> >>
> >> I'm delving into dial-up and modems and linux!  I've installed a more recent
> >> version of Minicom than was on the server system before.
> >> (minicom-2.1-1-rh7.3.i386.rpm instead of minicom-1.83.1-8.i386.rpm)  I have
> >> a USR 33.6 external modem connected to Com1 /dev/ttyS0.  When I turn on the
> >> modem it has AA and CD lights already on and Minicom immediately things I'm
> >> online.  I try having Minicom hangup and also +++ ATH0 but it doesn't seem
> >> to do anything.  Anyone have any ideas?
> >>
> >> Btw, is there anything like the old "Modem Doctor" program for Linux instead
> >> of DOS?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> John Cole, TICSA
> >> FiLink
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From james at sumners.ath.cx  Tue Jan  4 20:38:34 2005
From: james at sumners.ath.cx (James Sumners)
Date: Tue Jan  4 20:38:34 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <1104884124.9592.5.camel@blue>
References: <20050104032842.C565027521@nu.rasterburn.org>
	<5F96521C-5E8C-11D9-A47C-000D93C280F2@antinode.net>
	<41DB0415.8070506@3times25.net> <1104874270.8446.3.camel@blue>
	<41DB0C91.9040402@3times25.net> <1104875250.8660.3.camel@blue>
	<20050104175143.6a23d81b@sumners.ath.cx>
	<41DB2640.5070409@3times25.net> <1104884124.9592.5.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <20050104203456.2944e8e9@sumners.ath.cx>

An interview with the Debian project manager was posted on Newsforge
today (http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=04/12/23/2023223). I am sitting
here reading through it and the following is spot what we are talking about:

NF: Will Debian Sarge be a good choice for desktop users?

MM: Linux in general and Debian have made lots of progress in the last few years
and they are to some extent certainly suitable for desktop use. I wouldn't
recommend Debian on the desktop for people who are new to Linux, but it's
perfectly suited for people who have some experience with Linux or have an admin
who takes care of their machine. The question, of course, is whether we will
release timely updates after Sarge is out.

The desktop is very important for us and we know that our current release cycle
is just too slow. We are currently discussing moving to time-based releases (the
model which, for example, GNOME follows and in which a release is made every n
months according to a very thorough and well-planned schedule). Obviously, the
big question is how often we should release, and here we have to take two
conflicting requirements into account. The server people don't want to upgrade
too often, while many (but certainly not all) desktop users want to see frequent
releases. At the moment, a 12- to 18-month cycle is in discussion. We are also
working on security support for our testing distribution, which will allow
people who want cutting-edge but tested software to use testing.

NF: What kernel will Sarge use by default? Will it be like Woody, with two
versions (2.4 and 2.6, in the case of Sarge) from which the user can choose?

MM: The default kernel depends on the architecture. While 2.6 is the default for
PowerPC, we have decided to stay with 2.4 for i386. However, you can easily
choose 2.6 by booting the linux26 option. Installations with both kernels are
well supported and tested.

NF: Why 2.4 for i386? Don't you think 2.6 is stable enough?

MM: 2.4 is much more widely tested and known to be stable. 2.6 is getting quite
reliable too but is still much more of a moving target. In any case, both 2.4
and 2.6 are officially supported and it's very easy to choose.

-- 
James Sumners
http://ug.dyndns.org/~jsumners/

"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological
personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the
corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a
condition to which they are quickly addicted."

Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto)
CH:D 59


From runman at speedfactory.net  Tue Jan  4 23:13:50 2005
From: runman at speedfactory.net (Greg)
Date: Tue Jan  4 23:13:50 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <5F96521C-5E8C-11D9-A47C-000D93C280F2@antinode.net>
Message-ID: <000a01c4f2dc$cf9398a0$0a00a8c0@atlas>

 ... and the space shuttle ran on a MacSE-30 ...

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org]On Behalf Of James
Baldwin
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 3:08 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] Distro Reply


On 3 Jan 2005, at 22:28, Jerald Sheets wrote:

> Don't take that as a slam.  It isn't.  It's real-world, eterprise (read
> data-ceter) class expereience in mission critical (read patient's
> records
> and lives) data environments.

The speech by Dan Klein of USENIX at LISA 2004 was spot on wrt Linux in
mission critical applications.

Description: "We all know that "Linux is better than Windows." Few
intelligent people would board a fly-by-wire airplane that was
controlled by Microsoft Windows. So how about Linux? When your life is
at stake, your attitudes change considerably. Better than Windows,
yes?but better enough? This talk will look at what it takes to make
software truly mission-critical and man-rated. We'll go back to the
earliest fly-by-wire systems?Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo?and look at
such diverse (but critical!) issues such as compartmentalization,
trojans and terrorism, auditing and accountability, bugs and boundary
conditions, distributed authoring, and revision control. At the end of
this talk, what you thought might be an easy answer will be seen to be
not so easy."

Presentation slides can be found here:
http://www.usenix.org/events/lisa04/tech/talks/klein.pdf

On 4 Jan 2005, at 12:08, Geoffrey wrote:

> Yes I do.  THe whole thread was started regarding choosing a distro
> for an production environment.  I can't see putting something into
> such an environment with a kernel that is that old.

I think you're confusing a feature freeze with a code freeze. While the
earlier kernels (2.0, 2.2, and 2.4) are no longer actively _extended_
they are actively maintained. Bug fixes and security fixes are back
ported.

For instance, the latest 2.4 kernel is from Nov 17th, so the feature
set is "old" but the kernel is not.

Likewise with the software in the Debian package management system.
Software in the stable branch incorporates bug fixes and security
fixes, however, it does not incorporate new and untested features and
code.

---
James Baldwin


From deepbsd at earthlink.net  Tue Jan  4 23:24:15 2005
From: deepbsd at earthlink.net (David S. Jackson)
Date: Tue Jan  4 23:24:15 2005
Subject: [ale] fetchmail --antispam
Message-ID: <20050105042029.GI16084@scee.dsj.net>

Hi,

I'm trying to tell fetchmail to treat any pop3 message with error 451
as a spam message and to flush it, despite what the error says.
Fetchmail wants to save all mail until it knows it's bad.  I'm
telling it to override its default behavior because I know error 451
(sender address doesn't resolve) is a spam error.  So I start
fetchmail thusly:

fetchmail --antispam 451

However, the log tells me this:

 *** snip ***
 reading message dsj%dsj.net at pop.dsj.net:28 of 28 (5284 octets)
 fetchmail: SMTP error: 451 4.1.8 Domain of sender address
 rainer at augsburg.net does not resolve
 ..... not flushed
 
Why doesn't fetchmail believe me?  Why doesn't this message get
flushed as I asked it to be?  All help welcome.  TIA!


-- 
David S. Jackson                                dsj at dsj.net
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Fortune's Office Door Sign of the Week: 
	Incorrigible punster -- Do not incorrige.


From jb at sourceillustrated.com  Wed Jan  5 00:19:58 2005
From: jb at sourceillustrated.com (John Wells)
Date: Wed Jan  5 00:19:58 2005
Subject: [ale] MSH
In-Reply-To: <1104873571.13323.21.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
References: <20050104171731.kztckxvgpmhw0gc8@devsea.com>
	<1104873571.13323.21.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
Message-ID: <20050105011234.1kuazp8ngvusgcww@devsea.com>

Christopher Fowler <cfowler at outpostsentinel.com> said:

> I like Objects just like the next fellow but Objects = Bloat.  Bloat
> equals loss of memory and slowness.

Sorry Chris....I have to say that's a pretty naive statement.  While poorly
implemented objects might equal bloat, well implemented objects add minimal
overhead and infinitely powerful features.  I'd trade a small amount of
overhead for a leap in productivity any day.

That kind of reasoning only increases the likelihood that the Windows
mega-empire will persist and other alternatives (*nix, etc) will be left to
attract only those that follow the old way of doing things.  Don't get me
wrong...the old way of doing things is a proven approach, but that's no excuse
to constantly focus our  gaze towards the past. IMHO, MSH _could be_ a
significant step in the evolution of command line processing.

John


From ALE at MaestroIT.com  Wed Jan  5 00:34:02 2005
From: ALE at MaestroIT.com (Alan Dobkin)
Date: Wed Jan  5 00:34:02 2005
Subject: [ale] Expand newsgroup names in Mozilla Thunderbird
In-Reply-To: <41DB0A2B.5020502@proteus-tech.com>
References: <41DB0A2B.5020502@proteus-tech.com>
Message-ID: <41DB7ACE.4000206@MaestroIT.com>

Ben,

You can download and install about:config for Thunderbird as an extension:

http://aboutconfig.mozdev.org/

Or, you can just edit user.js or prefs.js in your profile the old 
fashioned way (with a text editor):

// Don't abbreviate newsgroup names:
user_pref("mail.server.default.abbreviate", false);

As to your second question, you can add a column for "Total" to the 
mailbox pane.

Alan

On 1/4/2005 4:27 PM, Benjamin Scherrey wrote:

> Does anyone know how to stop the newsgroups listing from using the 
> shortcuts (i.e. comp.jobs becomes c.jobs) in Thunderbird? Under the 
> full Mozilla its an option under about:config but I can't figure out 
> how to do it in the standalone Thunderbird. Also - does Thunderbird 
> have an option to display the number of total or read messages in a 
> mail folder rather than just the unread count?
>    thanx & later,
>
>       Ben Scherrey


From tcarter at entrusion.com  Wed Jan  5 01:46:40 2005
From: tcarter at entrusion.com (Tony Carter)
Date: Wed Jan  5 01:46:40 2005
Subject: [ale] Get this, guys...
In-Reply-To: <20050105011950.BE16AA0194@mail.xtremesecurity.com>
References: <20050105011950.BE16AA0194@mail.xtremesecurity.com>
Message-ID: <200501050112.39511.tcarter@entrusion.com>

C'mon $20.. You could live like a king...

On Wednesday 05 January 2005 01:19, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> Someone just tried to get me to come out and contract in Oregon for $20/hr.
> No travel, no per deim, no bennies.
>
> Sheesh...  That's an insult.
>


From jrickman at gmail.com  Wed Jan  5 01:58:22 2005
From: jrickman at gmail.com (Jonathan Rickman)
Date: Wed Jan  5 01:58:22 2005
Subject: [ale] MSH
In-Reply-To: <20050105011234.1kuazp8ngvusgcww@devsea.com>
References: <20050104171731.kztckxvgpmhw0gc8@devsea.com>
	<1104873571.13323.21.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
	<20050105011234.1kuazp8ngvusgcww@devsea.com>
Message-ID: <2802c52205010422512954ec7e@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed,  5 Jan 2005 01:12:34 -0500, John Wells <jb at sourceillustrated.com> wrote:
> Christopher Fowler <cfowler at outpostsentinel.com> said:
> 
> > I like Objects just like the next fellow but Objects = Bloat.  Bloat
> > equals loss of memory and slowness.
> 
> Sorry Chris....I have to say that's a pretty naive statement.  

I don't think it's so much a case of being naive as much as it is a
kneejerk negative reaction to Microsoft one-upping *nix. Happens all
the time. I do take Chris' point about bloat, but sometimes bloat is
OK as long as it is accompanied by a useful feature set. Technically ,
vi is very much bloated when compared to other alternatives. It's all
relative I guess.

--
Jonathan


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Wed Jan  5 06:55:56 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Wed Jan  5 06:55:56 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <20050104203456.2944e8e9@sumners.ath.cx>
References: <20050104032842.C565027521@nu.rasterburn.org>	<5F96521C-5E8C-11D9-A47C-000D93C280F2@antinode.net>	<41DB0415.8070506@3times25.net>
	<1104874270.8446.3.camel@blue>	<41DB0C91.9040402@3times25.net>
	<1104875250.8660.3.camel@blue>	<20050104175143.6a23d81b@sumners.ath.cx>	<41DB2640.5070409@3times25.net>
	<1104884124.9592.5.camel@blue>
	<20050104203456.2944e8e9@sumners.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <41DBD486.9030608@3times25.net>

James Sumners wrote:
> An interview with the Debian project manager was posted on Newsforge 
> today (http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=04/12/23/2023223). I
> am sitting here reading through it and the following is spot what we
> are talking about:
> 
> NF: Will Debian Sarge be a good choice for desktop users?
> 
> MM: Linux in general and Debian have made lots of progress in the
> last few years and they are to some extent certainly suitable for
> desktop use. I wouldn't recommend Debian on the desktop for people
> who are new to Linux, but it's perfectly suited for people who have
> some experience with Linux or have an admin who takes care of their
> machine. The question, of course, is whether we will release timely
> updates after Sarge is out.
> 
> The desktop is very important for us and we know that our current
> release cycle is just too slow.

So even they admit they're behind the times.  I rest my case.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Wed Jan  5 07:53:27 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Wed Jan  5 07:53:27 2005
Subject: [ale] Get this, guys...
In-Reply-To: <200501050112.39511.tcarter@entrusion.com>
References: <20050105011950.BE16AA0194@mail.xtremesecurity.com>
	<200501050112.39511.tcarter@entrusion.com>
Message-ID: <1104929364.12855.575.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>

On Tue, 2005-01-04 at 20:12, Tony Carter wrote:
> C'mon $20.. You could live like a king...
> 
> On Wednesday 05 January 2005 01:19, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> > Someone just tried to get me to come out and contract in Oregon for $20/hr.
> > No travel, no per deim, no bennies.

$20/hr begins when you get in the car to drive there and ends when you
return home.
> >
> > Sheesh...  That's an insult.
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> !DSPAM:41db8cf0285881806521208!
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
-------------- next part --------------
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From esoteric at 3times25.net  Wed Jan  5 08:03:48 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Wed Jan  5 08:03:48 2005
Subject: [ale] Get this, guys...
In-Reply-To: <1104929364.12855.575.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>
References: <20050105011950.BE16AA0194@mail.xtremesecurity.com>	<200501050112.39511.tcarter@entrusion.com>
	<1104929364.12855.575.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <41DBE486.70101@3times25.net>

James P. Kinney III wrote:
> On Tue, 2005-01-04 at 20:12, Tony Carter wrote:
> 
>>C'mon $20.. You could live like a king...
>>
>>On Wednesday 05 January 2005 01:19, Jerald Sheets wrote:
>>
>>>Someone just tried to get me to come out and contract in Oregon for $20/hr.
>>>No travel, no per deim, no bennies.
> 
> 
> $20/hr begins when you get in the car to drive there and ends when you
> return home.

Now I can see billing for travel, but are you suggesting, 24 hour 
billing? (I might be missing out on some out of town business!)

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From james at sumners.ath.cx  Wed Jan  5 08:27:43 2005
From: james at sumners.ath.cx (James Sumners)
Date: Wed Jan  5 08:27:43 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <41DBD486.9030608@3times25.net>
References: <20050104032842.C565027521@nu.rasterburn.org>
	<5F96521C-5E8C-11D9-A47C-000D93C280F2@antinode.net>
	<41DB0415.8070506@3times25.net> <1104874270.8446.3.camel@blue>
	<41DB0C91.9040402@3times25.net> <1104875250.8660.3.camel@blue>
	<20050104175143.6a23d81b@sumners.ath.cx>
	<41DB2640.5070409@3times25.net> <1104884124.9592.5.camel@blue>
	<20050104203456.2944e8e9@sumners.ath.cx>
	<41DBD486.9030608@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <20050105082408.1b21dc12@sumners.ath.cx>

That isn't what he said and you know it. He said that the release cycle for
stable is too slow for everyday desktop users. 

Whatever. This discussion is never going to go any where.

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 06:50:30 -0500
Geoffrey <esoteric at 3times25.net> wrote:

> So even they admit they're behind the times.  I rest my case.

-- 
James Sumners
http://ug.dyndns.org/~jsumners/

"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological
personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the
corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a
condition to which they are quickly addicted."

Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto)
CH:D 59


From jcole at filink.com  Wed Jan  5 08:47:28 2005
From: jcole at filink.com (John Cole)
Date: Wed Jan  5 08:47:28 2005
Subject: [ale] Problems with a modem.
In-Reply-To: <008801c4f2a1$6290f4e0$1300a8c0@sz1.filink.com>
Message-ID: <009501c4f32c$8e50b120$1300a8c0@sz1.filink.com>

Thank you all for your help!

Actually, it turned out to be a very simple thing! (Just something I've
never had happen before!)  It's amazing what happens when you use the right
cable! :):):):)  It turns out the original cable I was using was a
Null-Modem cable.  I would never have thought of that because I don't think
in all my years of computing and modems I'd ever used a Null-Modem cable
where it wasn't already in place.

On a side note, I'm using Minicom to just test basic connectivity with the
modem.  Now comes the fun part of attempting to implement PPP/Callback/RA to
a server that has some really OLD rpm's for these particular functions.

Ps.  There is no X-Windows, nor is it a normal distro.  It's a custom distro
by the vendor.

Thanks!
John Cole, TICSA
FiLink

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of John
Cole
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 4:07 PM
To: ale at ale.org
Subject: [ale] Problems with a modem.


Howdy all!

I'm delving into dial-up and modems and linux!  I've installed a more recent
version of Minicom than was on the server system before.
(minicom-2.1-1-rh7.3.i386.rpm instead of minicom-1.83.1-8.i386.rpm)  I have
a USR 33.6 external modem connected to Com1 /dev/ttyS0.  When I turn on the
modem it has AA and CD lights already on and Minicom immediately things I'm
online.  I try having Minicom hangup and also +++ ATH0 but it doesn't seem
to do anything.  Anyone have any ideas?

Btw, is there anything like the old "Modem Doctor" program for Linux instead
of DOS?

Thanks,
John Cole, TICSA
FiLink


This email and any files transmitted with it are solely intended for the use
of the
addressee(s) and may contain information that is confidential and
privileged. If 
you receive this email in error, please advise us by return email
immediately. 
Please also disregard the contents of the email, delete it and destroy any
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immediately. 

_______________________________________________
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Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


This email and any files transmitted with it are solely intended for the use of the
addressee(s) and may contain information that is confidential and privileged. If 
you receive this email in error, please advise us by return email immediately. 
Please also disregard the contents of the email, delete it and destroy any copies 
immediately. 


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  5 09:24:43 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Wed Jan  5 09:24:43 2005
Subject: [ale] Get this, guys...
In-Reply-To: <1104929364.12855.575.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <20050105142106.94147.qmail@web54406.mail.yahoo.com>

Not this one.

It starts at 8AM and ends at 5PM.

AND I'd have to maintain residence here *AS WELL AS*
hotel there in oregon.  Again, undoable.

--J


--- "James P. Kinney III"
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 2005-01-04 at 20:12, Tony Carter wrote:
> > C'mon $20.. You could live like a king...
> > 
> > On Wednesday 05 January 2005 01:19, Jerald Sheets
> wrote:
> > > Someone just tried to get me to come out and
> contract in Oregon for $20/hr.
> > > No travel, no per deim, no bennies.
> 
> $20/hr begins when you get in the car to drive there
> and ends when you
> return home.
> > >
> > > Sheesh...  That's an insult.
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> > 
> > !DSPAM:41db8cf0285881806521208!
> -- 
> James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile
> computing world/
> CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux
> user         /
> Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a
> time.          /
> 770-493-8244                   
> \.___________________________./
> http://www.localnetsolutions.com
> 
> GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
> <jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
> Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190
> ADC3 829C 6CA7
> 

> ATTACHMENT part 1.2 application/pgp-signature
name=signature.asc
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  5 09:28:58 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Wed Jan  5 09:28:58 2005
Subject: [ale] Get this, guys...
In-Reply-To: <41DBE486.70101@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <20050105142518.53836.qmail@web54404.mail.yahoo.com>

Again...  $160/day gross. 

NO benefits.
NO travel (job is in oregon)
NO per deim for hotel & expenses.

I make around twice this now, and roughly break even
every month.

You guys should really go read the SAGE salary survey.
 I get the feeling everyone believes this is an
appropriate salary for a Sysadmin.   Nothing could be
further from the truth.  I'm really not the @$$hole
here.  Why is everyone so ready to take considerably
less than they're worth on this list?

I've met some of you.  MANY are worth more than the
40k this yahoo was offering.

--J


--- Geoffrey <esoteric at 3times25.net> wrote:

> James P. Kinney III wrote:
> > On Tue, 2005-01-04 at 20:12, Tony Carter wrote:
> > 
> >>C'mon $20.. You could live like a king...
> >>
> >>On Wednesday 05 January 2005 01:19, Jerald Sheets
> wrote:
> >>
> >>>Someone just tried to get me to come out and
> contract in Oregon for $20/hr.
> >>>No travel, no per deim, no bennies.
> > 
> > 
> > $20/hr begins when you get in the car to drive
> there and ends when you
> > return home.
> 
> Now I can see billing for travel, but are you
> suggesting, 24 hour 
> billing? (I might be missing out on some out of town
> business!)
> 
> -- 
> Until later, Geoffrey
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 


From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Wed Jan  5 09:32:03 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Wed Jan  5 09:32:03 2005
Subject: [ale] MSH
In-Reply-To: <2802c52205010422512954ec7e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20050104171731.kztckxvgpmhw0gc8@devsea.com>
	<1104873571.13323.21.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
	<20050105011234.1kuazp8ngvusgcww@devsea.com>
	<2802c52205010422512954ec7e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1104935304.13323.49.camel@linux.linxdev.com>

On Wed, 2005-01-05 at 01:51, Jonathan Rickman wrote:
> On Wed,  5 Jan 2005 01:12:34 -0500, John Wells <jb at sourceillustrated.com> wrote:
> > Christopher Fowler <cfowler at outpostsentinel.com> said:
> > 
> > > I like Objects just like the next fellow but Objects = Bloat.  Bloat
> > > equals loss of memory and slowness.
> > 
> > Sorry Chris....I have to say that's a pretty naive statement.  
> 
> I don't think it's so much a case of being naive as much as it is a
> kneejerk negative reaction to Microsoft one-upping *nix. Happens all
> the time. I do take Chris' point about bloat, but sometimes bloat is
> OK as long as it is accompanied by a useful feature set. Technically ,
> vi is very much bloated when compared to other alternatives. It's all
> relative I guess.

Not sure how this is a reacation to one one-upping unix.  MSH is a
user-space app.  This can be created in Linux as well.  I can simply
walk /proc and create a pile of objects based on those processes and
send those objects across a pipe.  


From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Wed Jan  5 09:45:11 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Wed Jan  5 09:45:11 2005
Subject: [ale] Get this, guys...
In-Reply-To: <20050105142518.53836.qmail@web54404.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20050105142518.53836.qmail@web54404.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1104936092.13323.51.camel@linux.linxdev.com>

Just think of the taxes you'll be paying.  Now if they paid $20 in cash
and never asked you for your social it might look like a better deal.

On Wed, 2005-01-05 at 09:25, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> Again...  $160/day gross. 
> 
> NO benefits.
> NO travel (job is in oregon)
> NO per deim for hotel & expenses.
> 
> I make around twice this now, and roughly break even
> every month.
> 
> You guys should really go read the SAGE salary survey.
>  I get the feeling everyone believes this is an
> appropriate salary for a Sysadmin.   Nothing could be
> further from the truth.  I'm really not the @$$hole
> here.  Why is everyone so ready to take considerably
> less than they're worth on this list?
> 
> I've met some of you.  MANY are worth more than the
> 40k this yahoo was offering.
> 
> --J
> 
> 
> --- Geoffrey <esoteric at 3times25.net> wrote:
> 
> > James P. Kinney III wrote:
> > > On Tue, 2005-01-04 at 20:12, Tony Carter wrote:
> > > 
> > >>C'mon $20.. You could live like a king...
> > >>
> > >>On Wednesday 05 January 2005 01:19, Jerald Sheets
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>Someone just tried to get me to come out and
> > contract in Oregon for $20/hr.
> > >>>No travel, no per deim, no bennies.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > $20/hr begins when you get in the car to drive
> > there and ends when you
> > > return home.
> > 
> > Now I can see billing for travel, but are you
> > suggesting, 24 hour 
> > billing? (I might be missing out on some out of town
> > business!)
> > 
> > -- 
> > Until later, Geoffrey
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From mattslistmail at earthlink.net  Wed Jan  5 10:03:44 2005
From: mattslistmail at earthlink.net (Matt Magee)
Date: Wed Jan  5 10:03:44 2005
Subject: [ale] Get this, guys...
In-Reply-To: <20050105142518.53836.qmail@web54404.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20050105142518.53836.qmail@web54404.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <41DC0245.6070202@earthlink.net>

For someone with your skill and experience, $20/hr is way too little. 

On the other hand, I still can only dream of such things!  Maybe after I 
finish my IS degree.

Jerald Sheets wrote:

>Again...  $160/day gross. 
>
>NO benefits.
>NO travel (job is in oregon)
>NO per deim for hotel & expenses.
>
>I make around twice this now, and roughly break even
>every month.
>
>You guys should really go read the SAGE salary survey.
> I get the feeling everyone believes this is an
>appropriate salary for a Sysadmin.   Nothing could be
>further from the truth.  I'm really not the @$$hole
>here.  Why is everyone so ready to take considerably
>less than they're worth on this list?
>
>I've met some of you.  MANY are worth more than the
>40k this yahoo was offering.
>
>
>  
>


From griffisb at bellsouth.net  Wed Jan  5 10:14:14 2005
From: griffisb at bellsouth.net (BruceG)
Date: Wed Jan  5 10:14:14 2005
Subject: [ale] Get this, guys...
In-Reply-To: <20050105142518.53836.qmail@web54404.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20050105142518.53836.qmail@web54404.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200501050957.52247.griffisb@bellsouth.net>

On Wednesday 05 January 2005 09:25, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> Again...  $160/day gross.
>
> NO benefits.
> NO travel (job is in oregon)
> NO per deim for hotel & expenses.
>
> I make around twice this now, and roughly break even
> every month.
>
> You guys should really go read the SAGE salary survey.
>  I get the feeling everyone believes this is an
> appropriate salary for a Sysadmin.   Nothing could be
> further from the truth.  I'm really not the @$$hole
> here.  Why is everyone so ready to take considerably
> less than they're worth on this list?
>
> I've met some of you.  MANY are worth more than the
> 40k this yahoo was offering.
>

Jerald - I think the guys were just giving you a good-natured ribbing. I took 
it as humor. I certainly would not contract in Oregon for $20 an hour - 
unless travel was included! Then it might be worth it - I drive real slow and 
get good mileage ;-)

When I was in college I worked as a stringer for a small local weekly 
newspaper. We got paid by the column inch of news print, and so much per 
mile. I made a lot more money covering stories that involved a little bit of 
travel. There was also a fine line between being brief and succint (and 
getting your story published) versus being wordy and actually earning a 
couple pennies every now and then.


From hbbs at comcast.net  Wed Jan  5 10:15:22 2005
From: hbbs at comcast.net (Jeff Hubbs)
Date: Wed Jan  5 10:15:22 2005
Subject: [ale] Get this, guys...
In-Reply-To: <20050105142518.53836.qmail@web54404.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20050105142518.53836.qmail@web54404.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1104937848.3147.2.camel@juanita>

Hey, I phone-interviewed with a place in NC that wanted to pay $45K for
a do-everything IT manager.  I politely informed the gentlemen that I
was making over $60K when I was already doing many of the specific
things they said they needed done (and that was Government!) and that I
know a Windows admin in Norcross who's making ~48K without a degree. 
They wouldn't budge.

Get used to it.

- Jeff

On Wed, 2005-01-05 at 09:25, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> Again...  $160/day gross. 
> 
> NO benefits.
> NO travel (job is in oregon)
> NO per deim for hotel & expenses.
> 
> I make around twice this now, and roughly break even
> every month.
> 
> You guys should really go read the SAGE salary survey.
>  I get the feeling everyone believes this is an
> appropriate salary for a Sysadmin.   Nothing could be
> further from the truth.  I'm really not the @$$hole
> here.  Why is everyone so ready to take considerably
> less than they're worth on this list?
> 
> I've met some of you.  MANY are worth more than the
> 40k this yahoo was offering.
> 
> --J
> 
> 
> --- Geoffrey <esoteric at 3times25.net> wrote:
> 
> > James P. Kinney III wrote:
> > > On Tue, 2005-01-04 at 20:12, Tony Carter wrote:
> > > 
> > >>C'mon $20.. You could live like a king...
> > >>
> > >>On Wednesday 05 January 2005 01:19, Jerald Sheets
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>Someone just tried to get me to come out and
> > contract in Oregon for $20/hr.
> > >>>No travel, no per deim, no bennies.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > $20/hr begins when you get in the car to drive
> > there and ends when you
> > > return home.
> > 
> > Now I can see billing for travel, but are you
> > suggesting, 24 hour 
> > billing? (I might be missing out on some out of town
> > business!)
> > 
> > -- 
> > Until later, Geoffrey
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  5 10:36:47 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Wed Jan  5 10:36:47 2005
Subject: [ale] Get this, guys...
In-Reply-To: <1104937848.3147.2.camel@juanita>
Message-ID: <20050105153308.44315.qmail@web54401.mail.yahoo.com>

I don't have to.  I make more.

"get Used to it" is a perennial problem that folks in
our industry need to remove from their vocabulary. 
Continually taking that kind of money for
all-inclusives is pricing everyone (including
yourself) out of the market.  In 15 years when you're
trying to feed your family, and you can't because
hiring managers think they can have Sr. IT people for
30k (based in part on your contribution to the
problem), I'll bet your attitude will be quite
different.

This happened in the 80's to those of us who were
electronics techs.  We had a nice living in Baton
rouge (at the time) at $10/hr.  (Hey...I was 20)  As
people started to get out of the military with
high-end electronics training, they'd take the same
gigs for 7-9$/hr, and completely took the market from
we who had been doing it in town for awhile.  Sure,
they had the jobs and were happy then, but a mere 5
years later, they were moaning and complaining they
couldn't break the ceiling.

they caused the problem, then they had to live with
it.  don't let it happen to you too.

--J


--- Jeff Hubbs <hbbs at comcast.net> wrote:

> Hey, I phone-interviewed with a place in NC that
> wanted to pay $45K for
> a do-everything IT manager.  I politely informed the
> gentlemen that I
> was making over $60K when I was already doing many
> of the specific
> things they said they needed done (and that was
> Government!) and that I
> know a Windows admin in Norcross who's making ~48K
> without a degree. 
> They wouldn't budge.
> 
> Get used to it.
> 
> - Jeff
> 
> On Wed, 2005-01-05 at 09:25, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> > Again...  $160/day gross. 
> > 
> > NO benefits.
> > NO travel (job is in oregon)
> > NO per deim for hotel & expenses.
> > 
> > I make around twice this now, and roughly break
> even
> > every month.
> > 
> > You guys should really go read the SAGE salary
> survey.
> >  I get the feeling everyone believes this is an
> > appropriate salary for a Sysadmin.   Nothing could
> be
> > further from the truth.  I'm really not the
> @$$hole
> > here.  Why is everyone so ready to take
> considerably
> > less than they're worth on this list?
> > 
> > I've met some of you.  MANY are worth more than
> the
> > 40k this yahoo was offering.
> > 
> > --J
> > 
> > 
> > --- Geoffrey <esoteric at 3times25.net> wrote:
> > 
> > > James P. Kinney III wrote:
> > > > On Tue, 2005-01-04 at 20:12, Tony Carter
> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > >>C'mon $20.. You could live like a king...
> > > >>
> > > >>On Wednesday 05 January 2005 01:19, Jerald
> Sheets
> > > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>>Someone just tried to get me to come out and
> > > contract in Oregon for $20/hr.
> > > >>>No travel, no per deim, no bennies.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > $20/hr begins when you get in the car to drive
> > > there and ends when you
> > > > return home.
> > > 
> > > Now I can see billing for travel, but are you
> > > suggesting, 24 hour 
> > > billing? (I might be missing out on some out of
> town
> > > business!)
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > Until later, Geoffrey
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ale mailing list
> > > Ale at ale.org
> > > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> > > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 


From jrickman at gmail.com  Wed Jan  5 11:21:11 2005
From: jrickman at gmail.com (Jonathan Rickman)
Date: Wed Jan  5 11:21:11 2005
Subject: [ale] Get this, guys...
In-Reply-To: <20050105153308.44315.qmail@web54401.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1104937848.3147.2.camel@juanita>
	<20050105153308.44315.qmail@web54401.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2802c522050105081746bea713@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 07:33:08 -0800 (PST), Jerald Sheets
<jsheets at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I don't have to.  I make more.
> 
> "get Used to it" is a perennial problem that folks in
> our industry need to remove from their vocabulary.

Seems like I mentioned something along these lines last week during
the H1B debate. Artificially driving salaries up based on pure
unbridled greed is exactly what leads to periods of unemployment and
the flood of immigrant workers. Feel free to take your shots at these
companies, but understand that one day they might swing back and send
you and half your peers to the unemployment line. Then that 40k will
look pretty good. I'm not speculating on any one person's worth. That
obviously varies from person to person. But sometimes a position is
only worth so much money to a given employer. You can either accept
it, or move on to other things. Bashing the company in question and
suggesting a pseudo mutiny witin the industry is not going to change
things. If anything, it helps to perpetuate the growing feeling that
"computer people" are over paid prima donnas. Next thing you know,
you'll be calling for a damn union.

That said, $20/hr for an out of state contract is patently absurd. 

--
Jonathan


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  5 11:27:50 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Wed Jan  5 11:27:50 2005
Subject: [ale] Get this, guys...
In-Reply-To: <2802c522050105081746bea713@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050105162341.29378.qmail@web54406.mail.yahoo.com>

That's why the SAGE does all that work on the Sysadmin
Salary surveys and whatnot.  It's a good, impartial
range of salaries based on the important factors:

Duties
Geographical Area
Experience

good read, and a great reference.

--J


--- Jonathan Rickman <jrickman at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 07:33:08 -0800 (PST), Jerald
> Sheets
> <jsheets at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I don't have to.  I make more.
> > 
> > "get Used to it" is a perennial problem that folks
> in
> > our industry need to remove from their vocabulary.
> 
> Seems like I mentioned something along these lines
> last week during
> the H1B debate. Artificially driving salaries up
> based on pure
> unbridled greed is exactly what leads to periods of
> unemployment and
> the flood of immigrant workers. Feel free to take
> your shots at these
> companies, but understand that one day they might
> swing back and send
> you and half your peers to the unemployment line.
> Then that 40k will
> look pretty good. I'm not speculating on any one
> person's worth. That
> obviously varies from person to person. But
> sometimes a position is
> only worth so much money to a given employer. You
> can either accept
> it, or move on to other things. Bashing the company
> in question and
> suggesting a pseudo mutiny witin the industry is not
> going to change
> things. If anything, it helps to perpetuate the
> growing feeling that
> "computer people" are over paid prima donnas. Next
> thing you know,
> you'll be calling for a damn union.
> 
> That said, $20/hr for an out of state contract is
> patently absurd. 
> 
> --
> Jonathan
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 


From audilover at speedfactory.net  Wed Jan  5 12:20:23 2005
From: audilover at speedfactory.net (Raylynn Knight)
Date: Wed Jan  5 12:20:23 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <41DACDA3.7020703@3times25.net>
References: <200501031600.j03G0OIg010511@desdemona.cc.emory.edu>
	<fc.00249f0f23107bce3b9aca000b4d0bd1.231085d3@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>
	<41D983E0.6090705@3times25.net> <1104781281.2410.6.camel@blue>
	<41DA0654.4090901@3times25.net>
	<20050103222010.1d87b1d1@sumners.ath.cx>
	<41DACDA3.7020703@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <1104945059.727.61.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>

On Tue, 2005-01-04 at 12:08 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> James Sumners wrote:
> > I wanted to stay out of this conversation, we had it not more than
> > two weeks ago, but I am evidently weak. I still don't understand why
> > you are hung up on the stable branch defaulting to 2.2. Do you not
> > understand what Debian is about and how it achieves its goals?
> 
> Yes I do.  THe whole thread was started regarding choosing a distro for 
> an production environment.  I can't see putting something into such an 
> environment with a kernel that is that old.
> 

Trying again here.  The current stable Debian release contains both a
2.2 and a 2.4 kernel.  The default is 2.2 because at the time of
original release it was the most stable kernel.

> > By the way, your statement below applies to Debian as well.
> 
> Meaning the will have a release early this year with a 2.6 kernel?
> 
Debian sarge has support for both 2.4 and 2.6 kernel releases.  The
default will vary by hardware architecture.  I believe the default for
x86 is still 2.4 because 2.6 lacks support for some older hardware.

-- 
Raylynn Knight <audilover at speedfactory.net>


From audilover at speedfactory.net  Wed Jan  5 12:33:57 2005
From: audilover at speedfactory.net (Raylynn Knight)
Date: Wed Jan  5 12:33:57 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <41DB2640.5070409@3times25.net>
References: <20050104032842.C565027521@nu.rasterburn.org>
	<5F96521C-5E8C-11D9-A47C-000D93C280F2@antinode.net>
	<41DB0415.8070506@3times25.net> <1104874270.8446.3.camel@blue>
	<41DB0C91.9040402@3times25.net> <1104875250.8660.3.camel@blue>
	<20050104175143.6a23d81b@sumners.ath.cx>
	<41DB2640.5070409@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <1104945928.727.63.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>

On Tue, 2005-01-04 at 18:26 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> James Sumners wrote:
> > Seriously, who really cares what kernel version a distribution ships
> > with as long as it is recent enough to get the machine loaded or the
> > option to use a more recent kernel is provided? The kernel is not the
> > operating system. The kernel is replaceable.
> 
> You're kidding right?  I could get a box running with a 1. kernel.
> 
> > The Debian stable branch does not get ANY new packages after it is
> > frozen and shipped except for security updates. When you install the
> > release version of Debian you KNOW what you are getting and can
> > expect it to run until the machine catches on fire.
> > 
> > You are correct, the point of this thread was to find a distribution
> > that would be good to use on a production server. You are incorrect
> > in making the assertion that the release version of Debian is not a
> > good suggestion based solely on the fact that you don't like the
> > default kernel version. Several people have tried to get you to
> > explain why you make that statement and discount the whole operating
> > system because of it but all you return with is something to the 
> > effect of "2.2 is old. Newer kernels have newer stuff." While that is
> > true, it has not bearing on stability nor is it a good reply that
> > supports your opinion.
> 
> I'm not going to regurgitate the changelogs and readme files for the 
> kernels.  There have been all kinds of changes between 2.2 and 2.6, 
> including optimizations and yes, stability issues that will never find 
> their way into 2.2.
> 
> Just one simple example is that the 2.6 kernel supports prism54 
> wireless, prior to 2.6, you'd have to patch and recompile a new kernel.
> 
And just how many production servers are running a prism54 wireless
card?

-- 
Raylynn Knight <audilover at speedfactory.net>


From jrickman at gmail.com  Wed Jan  5 12:51:46 2005
From: jrickman at gmail.com (Jonathan Rickman)
Date: Wed Jan  5 12:51:46 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <1104945928.727.63.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
References: <20050104032842.C565027521@nu.rasterburn.org>
	<5F96521C-5E8C-11D9-A47C-000D93C280F2@antinode.net>
	<41DB0415.8070506@3times25.net> <1104874270.8446.3.camel@blue>
	<41DB0C91.9040402@3times25.net> <1104875250.8660.3.camel@blue>
	<20050104175143.6a23d81b@sumners.ath.cx>
	<41DB2640.5070409@3times25.net>
	<1104945928.727.63.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
Message-ID: <2802c52205010509481d46ffce@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 12:25:28 -0500, Raylynn Knight
<audilover at speedfactory.net> wrote:

> And just how many production servers are running a prism54 wireless
> card?

Probably not many, but there are several thousand...if not
million...Dell Poweredge systems out there with PERC3 RAID controllers
which are notoriously flaky with 2.2.x series kernels regardless of
the driver used. I had better stability with NT4 SP3 on those systems
back in the 2.2 days! 2.4.(somewhere around 18) cured all that. We can
discount the prism cards all day long, but are you willing to brush
off a key component in one of the most widely deployed x86 server
lines? Then of course there's the issue of systems with more than 2GBs
of RAM, but who ever heard of such a silly thing as a production
machine with a lot of RAM? Patches? Patches?!!! We don't need no
steenking patches. There's this nifty project called the 2.4 series
kernel.

--
Jonathan


From pras at cycloeastern.com  Wed Jan  5 13:09:47 2005
From: pras at cycloeastern.com (pras at cycloeastern.com)
Date: Wed Jan  5 13:09:47 2005
Subject: [ale] Help with Apache/Firewall forwarding rules
Message-ID: <20050105184540.GA17833@cycloeastern.com>

Ale,

Please CC on the replies, as I am not on the list.

I need help with a Apache setup I wish to configure.

1. I am connected to the Internet through my Linux box( www.xyz.com ). This Linux box has 2 Ethernet cards. eth0 -> Internal (
+192.168.0.xxx) and eth1->
is External IP. This box is also the firewall, apache server, ssh server etc.


2. I have another Linux box serving apache2 on the 192.168.0.41 internally.

3. I want dev.xyz.com to be redirected to 192.168.0.41.

4. Can I make apache 1.1 on www.xyz.com Linux box route these calls ? If not
can I setup firewall rules to setup forwarding ?

thanks
Prasanna Subash


From james at sumners.ath.cx  Wed Jan  5 13:22:00 2005
From: james at sumners.ath.cx (james at sumners.ath.cx)
Date: Wed Jan  5 13:22:00 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <2802c52205010509481d46ffce@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20050104032842.C565027521@nu.rasterburn.org>
	<5F96521C-5E8C-11D9-A47C-000D93C280F2@antinode.net>
	<41DB0415.8070506@3times25.net> <1104874270.8446.3.camel@blue>
	<41DB0C91.9040402@3times25.net> <1104875250.8660.3.camel@blue>
	<20050104175143.6a23d81b@sumners.ath.cx>
	<41DB2640.5070409@3times25.net>
	<1104945928.727.63.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
	<2802c52205010509481d46ffce@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050105181747.GC24492@sumners.ath.cx>

Which is available on the CD. But, that doesn't matter when it comes to
Debian Woody as you probably well know. No boot flavor on the shipping
CDs contains everything necessary to load Debian on those terribly
annoying, in my opinion, POS Dells. In order to load Debian on a Dell
server you either have to a) track down a CD someone else has built for
the machine or b) build your own install CD. Has the kept me from
running Debian on several Dell servers? No. Does Debian run like a champ
and outperform even netbsd on those boxes? Yes.

A standard, download it from the front page, Debian CD loads just fine
on my HP box though. And it is MUCH more powerful than any Dell server I
have used ;)

As for a production machine that uses prism54... The only one I know of
is the router I just built last month. It is running Debian Woody with
three backports from backports.org.

Debian is stable. You know what you are getting with Debian. I don't see
why anyone would use something else on a machine that needs to be
reliable.

On Wed, Jan 05, 2005 at 12:48:06PM -0500, Jonathan Rickman wrote:
> On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 12:25:28 -0500, Raylynn Knight
> <audilover at speedfactory.net> wrote:
> 
> > And just how many production servers are running a prism54 wireless
> > card?
> 
> Probably not many, but there are several thousand...if not
> million...Dell Poweredge systems out there with PERC3 RAID controllers
> which are notoriously flaky with 2.2.x series kernels regardless of
> the driver used. I had better stability with NT4 SP3 on those systems
> back in the 2.2 days! 2.4.(somewhere around 18) cured all that. We can
> discount the prism cards all day long, but are you willing to brush
> off a key component in one of the most widely deployed x86 server
> lines? Then of course there's the issue of systems with more than 2GBs
> of RAM, but who ever heard of such a silly thing as a production
> machine with a lot of RAM? Patches? Patches?!!! We don't need no
> steenking patches. There's this nifty project called the 2.4 series
> kernel.

-- 
James Sumners
http://ug.dyndns.org/~jsumners/

"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted."

Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto)
CH:D 59


From griffisb at bellsouth.net  Wed Jan  5 13:25:22 2005
From: griffisb at bellsouth.net (BruceG)
Date: Wed Jan  5 13:25:22 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <2802c52205010509481d46ffce@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20050104032842.C565027521@nu.rasterburn.org>
	<1104945928.727.63.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
	<2802c52205010509481d46ffce@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200501051321.36880.griffisb@bellsouth.net>

On Wednesday 05 January 2005 12:48, Jonathan Rickman wrote:

> Patches? Patches?!!! We don't need no
> steenking patches. There's this nifty project called the 2.4 series
> kernel.

I tried real hard to stay out of this. It's not that difficult to do a Debian 
Stable install with the 2.4 kernel. Certainly not worth a few days of going 
in circles. I am not a Linux guru and will never be one. I did install Debian 
Stable with a 2.4 kernel on a low-end desktop to use as a mail server before 
thinking better of that. I scratched the home use mail-server idea after a 
few months, but that's not the point. Installing Debian Stable with 2.4 
kernel would have been simpler than the last few days worth of posting (says 
the guy no longer running Debian Stable for reasons other than the 2.2 
kernel).

I don't think this horse could get any deader.


From magius at wittsend.com  Wed Jan  5 13:26:11 2005
From: magius at wittsend.com (Scott Warfield)
Date: Wed Jan  5 13:26:11 2005
Subject: [ale] Help with Apache/Firewall forwarding rules
In-Reply-To: <20050105184540.GA17833@cycloeastern.com>
Message-ID: <200501051820.j05IKoFN008864@alcove.wittsend.com>

Your best bet would be to set up a virtual host on www.xyz.com.  Here's a
reference; http://httpd.apache.org/docs/vhosts/name-based.html

192 is typically non-routable externally, so forwarding is out.  So, by
setting up dev.xyz.com as a CNAME to www.xyz.com, a virtual host on the
webserver that calls the internal address based on dev.xyz.com is your
safest bet imo.


-------------------------------------------------------
Scott Warfield
Internet Security Systems
X-Force Developer

PGP Key: 0x30E9FC59
-------------------------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
pras at cycloeastern.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 1:46 PM
To: ale at ale.org
Subject: [ale] Help with Apache/Firewall forwarding rules

Ale,

Please CC on the replies, as I am not on the list.

I need help with a Apache setup I wish to configure.

1. I am connected to the Internet through my Linux box( www.xyz.com ). This
Linux box has 2 Ethernet cards. eth0 -> Internal (
+192.168.0.xxx) and eth1->
is External IP. This box is also the firewall, apache server, ssh server
etc.


2. I have another Linux box serving apache2 on the 192.168.0.41 internally.

3. I want dev.xyz.com to be redirected to 192.168.0.41.

4. Can I make apache 1.1 on www.xyz.com Linux box route these calls ? If not
can I setup firewall rules to setup forwarding ?

thanks
Prasanna Subash

_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

 
 ** ACCEPT: CRM114 PASS Markovian Matcher ** CLASSIFY succeeds; success
probability: 1.0000  pR: 86.8714 Best match to file #0 (nonspam.css) prob:
1.0000  pR: 86.8714 Total features in input file: 6560 #0 (nonspam.css):
features: 3237419, hits: 17634714, prob: 1.00e+00, pR:  86.87
#1 (spam.css): features: 2866350, hits: 16291527, prob: 1.34e-87, pR: -86.87

 


From mterzo at mindspring.net  Wed Jan  5 13:34:21 2005
From: mterzo at mindspring.net (Mike Terzo)
Date: Wed Jan  5 13:34:21 2005
Subject: [ale] Help with Apache/Firewall forwarding rules
In-Reply-To: <20050105184540.GA17833@cycloeastern.com>
References: <20050105184540.GA17833@cycloeastern.com>
Message-ID: <41DC3251.8080203@mindspring.net>


I"ve never set this up, but you might be able to proxy pass a virtual 
host.  So you set up a virtual host for dev.xyz.com on the firewall.   
And in that definition, you set up a proxy pass that goes to the 
192.168.0.41 machine.

--mike terzo



pras at cycloeastern.com wrote:

>Ale,
>
>Please CC on the replies, as I am not on the list.
>
>I need help with a Apache setup I wish to configure.
>
>1. I am connected to the Internet through my Linux box( www.xyz.com ). This Linux box has 2 Ethernet cards. eth0 -> Internal (
>+192.168.0.xxx) and eth1->
>is External IP. This box is also the firewall, apache server, ssh server etc.
>
>
>2. I have another Linux box serving apache2 on the 192.168.0.41 internally.
>
>3. I want dev.xyz.com to be redirected to 192.168.0.41.
>
>4. Can I make apache 1.1 on www.xyz.com Linux box route these calls ? If not
>can I setup firewall rules to setup forwarding ?
>
>thanks
>Prasanna Subash
>
>_______________________________________________
>Ale mailing list
>Ale at ale.org
>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
>  
>


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Wed Jan  5 13:35:42 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Wed Jan  5 13:35:42 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <20050105181747.GC24492@sumners.ath.cx>
References: <20050104032842.C565027521@nu.rasterburn.org>	<5F96521C-5E8C-11D9-A47C-000D93C280F2@antinode.net>	<41DB0415.8070506@3times25.net>
	<1104874270.8446.3.camel@blue>	<41DB0C91.9040402@3times25.net>
	<1104875250.8660.3.camel@blue>	<20050104175143.6a23d81b@sumners.ath.cx>	<41DB2640.5070409@3times25.net>	<1104945928.727.63.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>	<2802c52205010509481d46ffce@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050105181747.GC24492@sumners.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <41DC328D.1050206@3times25.net>

james at sumners.ath.cx wrote:

> Debian is stable. You know what you are getting with Debian. I don't see
> why anyone would use something else on a machine that needs to be
> reliable.

Now who's being narrow minded?  Nothing else but Debian?  So you don't 
think Red Hat, Mandrake, SuSE provide the stability of Debian?

I'm not knocking the stability issue.  Point is, I'm running SuSE 9.2 on 
a number of boxes and they are all rock solid. All running a 2.6 kernel. 
  SuSE 9.0 on a fileserver that's been up 7x24 for at least a year.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From james at sumners.ath.cx  Wed Jan  5 14:01:52 2005
From: james at sumners.ath.cx (james at sumners.ath.cx)
Date: Wed Jan  5 14:01:52 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <41DC328D.1050206@3times25.net>
References: <41DB0415.8070506@3times25.net> <1104874270.8446.3.camel@blue>
	<41DB0C91.9040402@3times25.net> <1104875250.8660.3.camel@blue>
	<20050104175143.6a23d81b@sumners.ath.cx>
	<41DB2640.5070409@3times25.net>
	<1104945928.727.63.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
	<2802c52205010509481d46ffce@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050105181747.GC24492@sumners.ath.cx>
	<41DC328D.1050206@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <20050105185805.GD24492@sumners.ath.cx>

I didn't say that they don't have the stability. I just don't think they
are worth the trouble and overhead for a production server. I use SuSE
9.1 on my grandfather's machine because it is an easier to maintain
desktop system.

The first distribution I installed was Debian Slink. The install process
was less than refined and I didn't really know what I was doing at the
time. So, sometime later, I installed Red Hat; first 6.0 and then 6.1.
At one point I had some random RPM that I wanted to install but it
required a newer version of rpm (why, I don't know. It still baffles
me.). I installed the newer version of rpm and the whole database of
RPMs I had installed was wiped clean! All of them. The system was no
longer functional. That was the last straw with me and Red Hat on my
desktop. I proceeded to install Debian Slink. Since then I have tried
other distros, including SuSE and Gentoo, but I always come back to
Debian because of the way Debian works - the whole project - right down
to the filesystem.

However, I continued to use Red Hat on the only server I was running at
the time. After @lanta.con 2000 the server was linked because I had
pictures of the con there. Someone in the wider audience hacked the box
and used it to damage other servers. I then proceeded to install Debian
on the box and it has not had any problems since despite having an even
wider audience than the @lanta.con audience.

That is why I will sit here and defend Debian from such frivolous
accusations as "too outdated." Debian has not let me down. I do try
other distributions and give them a fair shake but none live up to
Debian as far as I am concerned.

For stable, easy to maintain, desktops I would have to concur that there
is better out there. As I said, I have SuSE loaded on my grandfather's
machine. But, for someone who knows how to maintain their system and can
fix things when they go wrong I don't see any reason not to use Debian
Sid for a desktop.

On Wed, Jan 05, 2005 at 01:31:41PM -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> james at sumners.ath.cx wrote:
> 
> >Debian is stable. You know what you are getting with Debian. I don't see
> >why anyone would use something else on a machine that needs to be
> >reliable.
> 
> Now who's being narrow minded?  Nothing else but Debian?  So you don't 
> think Red Hat, Mandrake, SuSE provide the stability of Debian?
> 
> I'm not knocking the stability issue.  Point is, I'm running SuSE 9.2 on 
> a number of boxes and they are all rock solid. All running a 2.6 kernel. 
>  SuSE 9.0 on a fileserver that's been up 7x24 for at least a year.

-- 
James Sumners
http://ug.dyndns.org/~jsumners/

"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted."

Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto)
CH:D 59


From audilover at speedfactory.net  Wed Jan  5 14:32:58 2005
From: audilover at speedfactory.net (Raylynn Knight)
Date: Wed Jan  5 14:32:58 2005
Subject: [ale] Distro Reply
In-Reply-To: <2802c52205010509481d46ffce@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20050104032842.C565027521@nu.rasterburn.org>
	<5F96521C-5E8C-11D9-A47C-000D93C280F2@antinode.net>
	<41DB0415.8070506@3times25.net> <1104874270.8446.3.camel@blue>
	<41DB0C91.9040402@3times25.net> <1104875250.8660.3.camel@blue>
	<20050104175143.6a23d81b@sumners.ath.cx>
	<41DB2640.5070409@3times25.net>
	<1104945928.727.63.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
	<2802c52205010509481d46ffce@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1104953336.727.67.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>

On Wed, 2005-01-05 at 12:48 -0500, Jonathan Rickman wrote:
> On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 12:25:28 -0500, Raylynn Knight
> <audilover at speedfactory.net> wrote:
> 
> > And just how many production servers are running a prism54 wireless
> > card?
> 
> Probably not many, but there are several thousand...if not
> million...Dell Poweredge systems out there with PERC3 RAID controllers
> which are notoriously flaky with 2.2.x series kernels regardless of
> the driver used. I had better stability with NT4 SP3 on those systems
> back in the 2.2 days! 2.4.(somewhere around 18) cured all that. We can
> discount the prism cards all day long, but are you willing to brush
> off a key component in one of the most widely deployed x86 server
> lines? Then of course there's the issue of systems with more than 2GBs
> of RAM, but who ever heard of such a silly thing as a production
> machine with a lot of RAM? Patches? Patches?!!! We don't need no
> steenking patches. There's this nifty project called the 2.4 series
> kernel.
> 
And as has been pointed out multiple times the 2.4 kernel is available
on Debian stable install disks.  RTFM.


-- 
Raylynn Knight <audilover at speedfactory.net>


From mentat_assassin at hotmail.com  Wed Jan  5 14:42:49 2005
From: mentat_assassin at hotmail.com (Kelly Williams)
Date: Wed Jan  5 14:42:49 2005
Subject: [ale] Problems w/ (VERY) new hardware...
Message-ID: <BAY13-DAV175DB4DF179DD5E582682D90920@phx.gbl>

I'm looking for anyone in the Atlanta area who can help configure a GeForce
6800 GT to enable 3D acceleration. I've migrated from RH9 to Fedora 1 and 2
and finally to SuSE 9.1 (the FORMERLY free one). In doing so I've managed to
stay pretty clear of the command line and this seems to be my undoing. Any
help would be GREATLY APPRECIATED. I've been able to avoid my Windows
partition for the better part of a year and I don't want to return just to
play the latest games.

BTW Slackware Zed, if you still watch these boards I like to hear from you.

Kelly
404.822.3100 (before 10PM)
mentat_assassin at hotmail.com


From james at sumners.ath.cx  Wed Jan  5 14:52:05 2005
From: james at sumners.ath.cx (james at sumners.ath.cx)
Date: Wed Jan  5 14:52:05 2005
Subject: [ale] Problems w/ (VERY) new hardware...
In-Reply-To: <BAY13-DAV175DB4DF179DD5E582682D90920@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY13-DAV175DB4DF179DD5E582682D90920@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20050105194821.GF24492@sumners.ath.cx>

Just do a search for 'nvidia' in Yast. It will return the packages you
need.

On Wed, Jan 05, 2005 at 02:38:18PM -0500, Kelly Williams wrote:
> I'm looking for anyone in the Atlanta area who can help configure a GeForce
> 6800 GT to enable 3D acceleration. I've migrated from RH9 to Fedora 1 and 2
> and finally to SuSE 9.1 (the FORMERLY free one). In doing so I've managed to
> stay pretty clear of the command line and this seems to be my undoing. Any
> help would be GREATLY APPRECIATED. I've been able to avoid my Windows
> partition for the better part of a year and I don't want to return just to
> play the latest games.
> 
> BTW Slackware Zed, if you still watch these boards I like to hear from you.
> 
> Kelly
> 404.822.3100 (before 10PM)
> mentat_assassin at hotmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

-- 
James Sumners
http://ug.dyndns.org/~jsumners/

"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted."

Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto)
CH:D 59


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  5 14:58:09 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Wed Jan  5 14:58:09 2005
Subject: [ale] Problems w/ (VERY) new hardware...
In-Reply-To: <BAY13-DAV175DB4DF179DD5E582682D90920@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20050105195420.47230.qmail@web54410.mail.yahoo.com>

You can actually download the Nvidia installer from
their website, boot to runlevel 3, run the fully
automated install routine, make the suggested changes
to your xorg.conf, and then boot back into runlevel 5,
and you should be set.

--J

--- Kelly Williams <mentat_assassin at hotmail.com>
wrote:

> I'm looking for anyone in the Atlanta area who can
> help configure a GeForce
> 6800 GT to enable 3D acceleration. I've migrated
> from RH9 to Fedora 1 and 2
> and finally to SuSE 9.1 (the FORMERLY free one). In
> doing so I've managed to
> stay pretty clear of the command line and this seems
> to be my undoing. Any
> help would be GREATLY APPRECIATED. I've been able to
> avoid my Windows
> partition for the better part of a year and I don't
> want to return just to
> play the latest games.
> 
> BTW Slackware Zed, if you still watch these boards I
> like to hear from you.
> 
> Kelly
> 404.822.3100 (before 10PM)
> mentat_assassin at hotmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 


From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Wed Jan  5 15:11:00 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Wed Jan  5 15:11:00 2005
Subject: [ale] Pagining in Linux
Message-ID: <1104955639.6294.8.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>

Is anyone using "old school" style paging in Linux?  What software is
there?

Thanks,
Chris


From protocoljunkie at gmail.com  Wed Jan  5 15:29:19 2005
From: protocoljunkie at gmail.com (M Raju)
Date: Wed Jan  5 15:29:19 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux Live CD (WiFi Audit) for PPC?
Message-ID: <64162eed0501051225585d1fe6@mail.gmail.com>

Hello guys...
 I was wondering if anyone has come across a Linux Live CD(s), similar
to Auditor (http://www.remote-exploit.org), for PPC. I run OS X on my
PowerBook G4 and that Virtual PC for VMs is a real PoS. Not ventured
into using bochs or qemu for running Linux...

Yes, most tools compile on OS X, but I rather have Linux for
conducting pen-tests. If nothing I might have to consider running a
dual boot Gentoo/OS X on the G4 to make maximum use of my Orinoco Gold
card...

Thanks for any pointers..

_Raju


-- 
May the packets be with you.


From scherrey at proteus-tech.com  Wed Jan  5 15:31:39 2005
From: scherrey at proteus-tech.com (Benjamin Scherrey)
Date: Wed Jan  5 15:31:39 2005
Subject: [ale] Expand newsgroup names in Mozilla Thunderbird
In-Reply-To: <41DB7ACE.4000206@MaestroIT.com>
References: <41DB0A2B.5020502@proteus-tech.com>
	<41DB7ACE.4000206@MaestroIT.com>
Message-ID: <41DC4DCD.9070005@proteus-tech.com>

Alan,

    Thanx much for the help. Adding that line to prefs.js took care of 
it and I finally figured out what that little square box was up in the 
corner to add column headings. Thunderbird's pretty cool so far. I think 
I still prefer KMail but Tbird is great for Windows and I need linux & 
windows solutions.

    -- Ben Scherrey

Alan Dobkin wrote:

> Ben,
>
> You can download and install about:config for Thunderbird as an 
> extension:
>
> http://aboutconfig.mozdev.org/
>
> Or, you can just edit user.js or prefs.js in your profile the old 
> fashioned way (with a text editor):
>
> // Don't abbreviate newsgroup names:
> user_pref("mail.server.default.abbreviate", false);
>
> As to your second question, you can add a column for "Total" to the 
> mailbox pane.
>
> Alan



From rb211 at tds.net  Wed Jan  5 16:11:38 2005
From: rb211 at tds.net (William Bagwell)
Date: Wed Jan  5 16:11:38 2005
Subject: [ale] Expand newsgroup names in Mozilla Thunderbird
In-Reply-To: <41DC4DCD.9070005@proteus-tech.com>
References: <41DB0A2B.5020502@proteus-tech.com>
	<41DB7ACE.4000206@MaestroIT.com>
	<41DC4DCD.9070005@proteus-tech.com>
Message-ID: <200501051608.01431.rb211@tds.net>

On Wednesday 05 January 2005 03:27 pm, Benjamin Scherrey wrote:
> ? ? Thanx much for the help. Adding that line to prefs.js took care of
> it and I finally figured out what that little square box was up in the
> corner to add column headings. Thunderbird's pretty cool so far. I think
> I still prefer KMail but Tbird is great for Windows and I need linux &
> windows solutions.

Have you tried Forte Agent? Runs great under CrossOver 4.0 
Will also run under many of the free versions of Wine. Can be a bit of a 
pain to find which one for a particular distro.

Mail and news in one app. Supports archiving and off-line reading of news. 
Has more search, sort, and filter features than you can shake a stick at. 
Plus a loyal "cult" like following just like Mac and *nix... What more 
could you ask for:)
-- 
William


From pras at cycloeastern.com  Wed Jan  5 16:23:39 2005
From: pras at cycloeastern.com (pras at cycloeastern.com)
Date: Wed Jan  5 16:23:39 2005
Subject: [ale] Help with Apache/Firewall forwarding rules
In-Reply-To: <41DC3251.8080203@mindspring.net>
References: <20050105184540.GA17833@cycloeastern.com>
	<41DC3251.8080203@mindspring.net>
Message-ID: <20050105215934.GA19452@cycloeastern.com>

Thanks both of you !! It worked.

This is what I did.


<VirtualHost dev.xyz.com>
ServerName dev.xyz.com
ServerAdmin pras at xyz.com
ProxyRequests On
ProxyPass / http://192.168.0.62/
ProxyPassReverse / http://192.168.0.62/
ProxyVia On
ErrorLog /var/log/httpd/dev.error
CustomLog /var/log/httpd/dev.access combined
</VirtualHost>



On Wed, Jan 05, 2005 at 01:30:41PM -0500, Mike Terzo wrote:
> 
> I"ve never set this up, but you might be able to proxy pass a virtual 
> host.  So you set up a virtual host for dev.xyz.com on the firewall.   
> And in that definition, you set up a proxy pass that goes to the 
> 192.168.0.41 machine.
> 
> --mike terzo
> 
> 
> 
> pras at xyz.com wrote:
> 
> >Ale,
> >
> >Please CC on the replies, as I am not on the list.
> >
> >I need help with a Apache setup I wish to configure.
> >
> >1. I am connected to the Internet through my Linux box( www.xyz.com ). 
> >This Linux box has 2 Ethernet cards. eth0 -> Internal (
> >+192.168.0.xxx) and eth1->
> >is External IP. This box is also the firewall, apache server, ssh server 
> >etc.
> >
> >
> >2. I have another Linux box serving apache2 on the 192.168.0.41 internally.
> >
> >3. I want dev.xyz.com to be redirected to 192.168.0.41.
> >
> >4. Can I make apache 1.1 on www.xyz.com Linux box route these calls ? If 
> >not
> >can I setup firewall rules to setup forwarding ?
> >
> >thanks
> >Prasanna Subash
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Ale mailing list
> >Ale at ale.org
> >http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> >
> > 
> >


From keith.watson at gtri.gatech.edu  Wed Jan  5 16:24:58 2005
From: keith.watson at gtri.gatech.edu (Keith R. Watson)
Date: Wed Jan  5 16:24:58 2005
Subject: [ale] Unique number
In-Reply-To: <1104432021.31018.188.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
References: <20041230183246.GE14009@antichri.st>
	<1104431220.31018.179.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
	<20041230183246.GE14009@antichri.st>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20050105161818.02842fc0@casbah.gatech.edu>

At 13:40 12/30/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>My software includes C, Perl, and Java Enterprise.  So we are dealing
>with a few languages.  In the past on our embedded devices I created a
>64bit number that consisted of the following info:
>
>1.  Date Created
>2.  Tpye
>3.  ETH0 Mac Address
>
>That data was also blowfish encrypted and stored on parts of flash that
>were raw and not an FS.  At boot time the data was placed in a shared
>memory segment and each program that was ours would access that segment
>to verify that is was in fact our stuff.  Since this was pure C i was
>not concerned about the code being readable.
>
>My problem with perl is that the source program can be modified to skip
>those checks.  One obvious solution would be to modify the perl binary
>itself so that those pieces of code we wrote could not be ran without
>our perl binary but hell that is against the perl license and still the
>perl program can be modified.  How would one go about keeping someone
>from reading a perl program and/or modifing it?


Compile it.

Perl2Exe Pro
http://www.indigostar.com/

keith

-------------

Keith R. Watson                        GTRI/ISD
Systems Support Specialist III         Georgia Tech Research Institute
keith.watson at gtri.gatech.edu           Atlanta, GA  30332-0816
404-894-0836


From mentat_assassin at hotmail.com  Wed Jan  5 16:27:36 2005
From: mentat_assassin at hotmail.com (Kelly Williams)
Date: Wed Jan  5 16:27:36 2005
Subject: [ale] Problems w/ (VERY) new hardware...
References: <20050105195420.47230.qmail@web54410.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY13-DAV5075E0D3C47AF3891AEC090920@phx.gbl>

Thanks for you reply Jerald. Not to put too fine a point on it but I don't
know how to do ANY of what you wrote. I've read the instructions on nVidia's
site, the problem is that I've NEVER booted into or ran programs from a
non-graphical envirement. As well I wouldn'r know how to edit ANYTHING so
you see my problem. I'm a Windows convert w/o ANY real experience from the
command line. Tongue-lashing and brow-beating are more than welcome for a
guided tour :-)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerald Sheets" <jsheets at yahoo.com>
To: "Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts" <ale at ale.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: [ale] Problems w/ (VERY) new hardware...


> You can actually download the Nvidia installer from
> their website, boot to runlevel 3, run the fully
> automated install routine, make the suggested changes
> to your xorg.conf, and then boot back into runlevel 5,
> and you should be set.
>
> --J
>
> --- Kelly Williams <mentat_assassin at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I'm looking for anyone in the Atlanta area who can
> > help configure a GeForce
> > 6800 GT to enable 3D acceleration. I've migrated
> > from RH9 to Fedora 1 and 2
> > and finally to SuSE 9.1 (the FORMERLY free one). In
> > doing so I've managed to
> > stay pretty clear of the command line and this seems
> > to be my undoing. Any
> > help would be GREATLY APPRECIATED. I've been able to
> > avoid my Windows
> > partition for the better part of a year and I don't
> > want to return just to
> > play the latest games.
> >
> > BTW Slackware Zed, if you still watch these boards I
> > like to hear from you.
> >
> > Kelly
> > 404.822.3100 (before 10PM)
> > mentat_assassin at hotmail.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>


From keith.watson at gtri.gatech.edu  Wed Jan  5 16:28:24 2005
From: keith.watson at gtri.gatech.edu (Keith R. Watson)
Date: Wed Jan  5 16:28:24 2005
Subject: [ale] T1 provider
In-Reply-To: <1103666787.13971.10.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20050105162223.02844030@casbah.gatech.edu>

At 17:06 12/21/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>I am looking for recommendations for T1 providers. If people have had
>good/bad results with any please post comments.
>--
>James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
>CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
>Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
>770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
>http://www.localnetsolutions.com
>
>GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
><jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
>Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
>
>_______________________________________________
>Ale mailing list
>Ale at ale.org
>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


James,

I was recently looking into getting another T1 and I found that I could get 
a 100Mb/s fiber feed from Cogent for $1000.00/month. This was roughly twice 
the cost of a T1 depending on who you get it from. We ended up geting the 
fiber feed.

keith

-------------

Keith R. Watson                        GTRI/ISD
Systems Support Specialist III         Georgia Tech Research Institute
keith.watson at gtri.gatech.edu           Atlanta, GA  30332-0816
404-894-0836


From mentat_assassin at hotmail.com  Wed Jan  5 16:29:41 2005
From: mentat_assassin at hotmail.com (Kelly Williams)
Date: Wed Jan  5 16:29:41 2005
Subject: [ale] Problems w/ (VERY) new hardware...
References: <BAY13-DAV175DB4DF179DD5E582682D90920@phx.gbl>
	<20050105194821.GF24492@sumners.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <BAY13-DAV1844743C029A5AA36A5AEA90920@phx.gbl>

No go. The installer only works in a non-graphical enviroment. I've NEVER
booted into such much less ran programs or edited a config file. As I told
my other response I welcome verbal abuse (shame me for newb-ness) in
exchange for a walk-through.

----- Original Message -----
From: <james at sumners.ath.cx>
To: "Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts" <ale at ale.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: [ale] Problems w/ (VERY) new hardware...


> Just do a search for 'nvidia' in Yast. It will return the packages you
> need.
>
> On Wed, Jan 05, 2005 at 02:38:18PM -0500, Kelly Williams wrote:
> > I'm looking for anyone in the Atlanta area who can help configure a
GeForce
> > 6800 GT to enable 3D acceleration. I've migrated from RH9 to Fedora 1
and 2
> > and finally to SuSE 9.1 (the FORMERLY free one). In doing so I've
managed to
> > stay pretty clear of the command line and this seems to be my undoing.
Any
> > help would be GREATLY APPRECIATED. I've been able to avoid my Windows
> > partition for the better part of a year and I don't want to return just
to
> > play the latest games.
> >
> > BTW Slackware Zed, if you still watch these boards I like to hear from
you.
> >
> > Kelly
> > 404.822.3100 (before 10PM)
> > mentat_assassin at hotmail.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
> --
> James Sumners
> http://ug.dyndns.org/~jsumners/
>
> "All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological
personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the
corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a
condition to which they are quickly addicted."
>
> Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto)
> CH:D 59
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>


From FishR at bellsouth.net  Wed Jan  5 16:38:36 2005
From: FishR at bellsouth.net (Ryan Fish)
Date: Wed Jan  5 16:38:36 2005
Subject: [ale] up2date connection timeout
Message-ID: <00c101c4f36e$e50022c0$6401a8c0@win2kpro1>

I receive the following when attempting to use up2date on a RHEL3 ES server:

[root@<server> root]# up2date -l
https://xmlrpc.rhn.redhat.com/XMLRPC
https://xmlrpc.rhn.redhat.com/XMLRPC
https://xmlrpc.rhn.redhat.com/XMLRPC
https://xmlrpc.rhn.redhat.com/XMLRPC
https://xmlrpc.rhn.redhat.com/XMLRPC
Error communicating with server. The message was:
Connection timed out

>From /var/log/up2date (110 is the error number, not the port used):
[Wed Jan  5 12:04:38 2005] up2date updating login info
[Wed Jan  5 12:04:38 2005] up2date logging into up2date server
[Wed Jan  5 12:07:47 2005] up2date A socket error occurred: (110, 'Connection timed out'), attempt #1
[Wed Jan  5 12:11:01 2005] up2date A socket error occurred: (110, 'Connection timed out'), attempt #2
[Wed Jan  5 12:14:15 2005] up2date A socket error occurred: (110, 'Connection timed out'), attempt #3
[Wed Jan  5 12:17:29 2005] up2date A socket error occurred: (110, 'Connection timed out'), attempt #4
[Wed Jan  5 12:20:43 2005] up2date A socket error occurred: (110, 'Connection timed out'), attempt #5
[Wed Jan  5 12:20:43 2005] up2date Error communicating with server. The message was:
Connection timed out

I AM able to connect to the up2date site via telnet on port 443 though...:
[root@<server> up2date]# telnet xmlrpc.rhn.redhat.com 443
Trying 209.132.177.100...
Connected to xmlrpc.rhn.redhat.com (209.132.177.100).
Escape character is '^]'.


up2date-4.2.38-1
kernel-2.4.21-9.0.1.EL
Red Hat Enterprise Linux ES release 3 (Taroon Update 3)

So far, the only thing I have found in my searching online is to make sure the system date/time are correct: they are...

Any suggestions or recommendations?

Thank you.
-Ryan
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From esoteric at 3times25.net  Wed Jan  5 16:53:34 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Wed Jan  5 16:53:34 2005
Subject: [ale] Problems w/ (VERY) new hardware...
In-Reply-To: <BAY13-DAV5075E0D3C47AF3891AEC090920@phx.gbl>
References: <20050105195420.47230.qmail@web54410.mail.yahoo.com>
	<BAY13-DAV5075E0D3C47AF3891AEC090920@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <41DC60FD.60806@3times25.net>

Kelly Williams wrote:
> Thanks for you reply Jerald. Not to put too fine a point on it but I
> don't know how to do ANY of what you wrote. I've read the
> instructions on nVidia's site, the problem is that I've NEVER booted
> into or ran programs from a non-graphical envirement. As well I
> wouldn'r know how to edit ANYTHING so you see my problem. I'm a
> Windows convert w/o ANY real experience from the command line.
> Tongue-lashing and brow-beating are more than welcome for a guided
> tour :-)

Where are you located, you might be able to make it to an ALE meeting 
near you and get hands on help.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From mpwright at speedfactory.net  Wed Jan  5 16:54:27 2005
From: mpwright at speedfactory.net (Mark Wright)
Date: Wed Jan  5 16:54:27 2005
Subject: [ale] Problems with a modem.
In-Reply-To: <009501c4f32c$8e50b120$1300a8c0@sz1.filink.com>
References: <009501c4f32c$8e50b120$1300a8c0@sz1.filink.com>
Message-ID: <CC5212A0-5F63-11D9-AF5C-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>

That link I sent you to W G Unruhs' article on dial up will be of great 
use to you especially if you are not current.  It has been out there a 
while and uses the manual approach.

Mark
On Jan 5, 2005, at 8:43 AM, John Cole wrote:

> Thank you all for your help!
>
> Actually, it turned out to be a very simple thing! (Just something I've
> never had happen before!)  It's amazing what happens when you use the 
> right
> cable! :):):):)  It turns out the original cable I was using was a
> Null-Modem cable.  I would never have thought of that because I don't 
> think
> in all my years of computing and modems I'd ever used a Null-Modem 
> cable
> where it wasn't already in place.
>
> On a side note, I'm using Minicom to just test basic connectivity with 
> the
> modem.  Now comes the fun part of attempting to implement 
> PPP/Callback/RA to
> a server that has some really OLD rpm's for these particular functions.
>
> Ps.  There is no X-Windows, nor is it a normal distro.  It's a custom 
> distro
> by the vendor.
>
> Thanks!
> John Cole, TICSA
> FiLink
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of 
> John
> Cole
> Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 4:07 PM
> To: ale at ale.org
> Subject: [ale] Problems with a modem.
>
>
> Howdy all!
>
> I'm delving into dial-up and modems and linux!  I've installed a more 
> recent
> version of Minicom than was on the server system before.
> (minicom-2.1-1-rh7.3.i386.rpm instead of minicom-1.83.1-8.i386.rpm)  I 
> have
> a USR 33.6 external modem connected to Com1 /dev/ttyS0.  When I turn 
> on the
> modem it has AA and CD lights already on and Minicom immediately 
> things I'm
> online.  I try having Minicom hangup and also +++ ATH0 but it doesn't 
> seem
> to do anything.  Anyone have any ideas?
>
> Btw, is there anything like the old "Modem Doctor" program for Linux 
> instead
> of DOS?
>
> Thanks,
> John Cole, TICSA
> FiLink
>
>
> This email and any files transmitted with it are solely intended for 
> the use
> of the
> addressee(s) and may contain information that is confidential and
> privileged. If
> you receive this email in error, please advise us by return email
> immediately.
> Please also disregard the contents of the email, delete it and destroy 
> any
> copies
> immediately.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
>
> This email and any files transmitted with it are solely intended for 
> the use of the
> addressee(s) and may contain information that is confidential and 
> privileged. If
> you receive this email in error, please advise us by return email 
> immediately.
> Please also disregard the contents of the email, delete it and destroy 
> any copies
> immediately.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Wed Jan  5 16:55:04 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Wed Jan  5 16:55:04 2005
Subject: [ale] Problems w/ (VERY) new hardware...
In-Reply-To: <BAY13-DAV1844743C029A5AA36A5AEA90920@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY13-DAV175DB4DF179DD5E582682D90920@phx.gbl>	<20050105194821.GF24492@sumners.ath.cx>
	<BAY13-DAV1844743C029A5AA36A5AEA90920@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <41DC614B.8060408@3times25.net>

Kelly Williams wrote:
> No go. The installer only works in a non-graphical enviroment. I've NEVER
> booted into such much less ran programs or edited a config file. As I told
> my other response I welcome verbal abuse (shame me for newb-ness) in
> exchange for a walk-through.

You can run yast from the command line, it has a curses version that 
will run if you're at the console.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From ale1 at cybertechcafe.net  Wed Jan  5 17:12:35 2005
From: ale1 at cybertechcafe.net (Nathan J. Underwood)
Date: Wed Jan  5 17:12:35 2005
Subject: [ale] Problems w/ (VERY) new hardware...
In-Reply-To: <BAY13-DAV5075E0D3C47AF3891AEC090920@phx.gbl>
References: <20050105195420.47230.qmail@web54410.mail.yahoo.com>
	<BAY13-DAV5075E0D3C47AF3891AEC090920@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <41DC6578.1060801@cybertechcafe.net>

I'll take a shot at this, but you may want to wait to see if I get a 
tongue lashing or brow beating before you follow the instructions:

1) Download the nvidia installer that was mentioned before, and note 
where you save it (/home/<yourname> maybe?)
2) Using your file manager of choice, make a copy of the file 
/etc/inittab (when doing this, I generally make a copy with a date stamp 
and sequence.  For example, the first time I edited it today, I'd make a 
copy called /etc/inittab.bak-5jan2k51)
3) Using your text editor of choice, open the file /etc/inittab (the one 
you just made a backup of), and look for a section (most likely at the 
very top) that talks about "Default Runlevel" (example below).  Change 
the first non-comment line (i.e. the first one that doesn't start with 
the #) to id:3 rather than id:5.
** Now, the next time you reboot, you're going to boot into text only mode.
4) Reboot your computer, you'll boot into text only mode
5) At the login prompt, login as root
6) Navigate to where you saved the nvidia installer
7) Run the installer.  The instructions on the nvidia website will 
probably be helpful here
8) Once complete, copy your original /etc/inittab (the backup) to the 
actual /etc/inittab.  To do this, you should be able to just:
cp /etc/inittab.bak-5jan2k51 /etc/inittab
This will set it to boot back into graphical mode

Before you do this, wait for a few folks to respond to make sure I've 
not left anything out, but I think that this should get you going.  Hope 
this helps, and welcome to Linux!!

== Begin Example ==
# Default runlevel. The runlevels used by RHS are:
#   0 - halt (Do NOT set initdefault to this)
#   1 - Single user mode
#   2 - Multiuser, without NFS (The same as 3, if you do not have 
networking)
#   3 - Full multiuser mode
#   4 - unused
#   5 - X11
#   6 - reboot (Do NOT set initdefault to this)
#
id:5:initdefault:
    ^ change this to 3
== End Example ==



--
registered linux user # 73046

Nathan J. Underwood
Cyber Tech Cafe' <><
http://www.cybertechcafe.net

Kelly Williams wrote:
> Thanks for you reply Jerald. Not to put too fine a point on it but I don't
> know how to do ANY of what you wrote. I've read the instructions on nVidia's
> site, the problem is that I've NEVER booted into or ran programs from a
> non-graphical envirement. As well I wouldn'r know how to edit ANYTHING so
> you see my problem. I'm a Windows convert w/o ANY real experience from the
> command line. Tongue-lashing and brow-beating are more than welcome for a
> guided tour :-)
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jerald Sheets" <jsheets at yahoo.com>
> To: "Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts" <ale at ale.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 2:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [ale] Problems w/ (VERY) new hardware...
> 
> 
> 
>>You can actually download the Nvidia installer from
>>their website, boot to runlevel 3, run the fully
>>automated install routine, make the suggested changes
>>to your xorg.conf, and then boot back into runlevel 5,
>>and you should be set.
>>
>>--J
>>
>>--- Kelly Williams <mentat_assassin at hotmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I'm looking for anyone in the Atlanta area who can
>>>help configure a GeForce
>>>6800 GT to enable 3D acceleration. I've migrated
>>>from RH9 to Fedora 1 and 2
>>>and finally to SuSE 9.1 (the FORMERLY free one). In
>>>doing so I've managed to
>>>stay pretty clear of the command line and this seems
>>>to be my undoing. Any
>>>help would be GREATLY APPRECIATED. I've been able to
>>>avoid my Windows
>>>partition for the better part of a year and I don't
>>>want to return just to
>>>play the latest games.
>>>
>>>BTW Slackware Zed, if you still watch these boards I
>>>like to hear from you.
>>>
>>>Kelly
>>>404.822.3100 (before 10PM)
>>>mentat_assassin at hotmail.com
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Ale mailing list
>>>Ale at ale.org
>>>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Ale mailing list
>>Ale at ale.org
>>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From barry at alltc.com  Wed Jan  5 17:19:58 2005
From: barry at alltc.com (Barry Hawkins)
Date: Wed Jan  5 17:19:58 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux Live CD (WiFi Audit) for PPC?
In-Reply-To: <64162eed0501051225585d1fe6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <64162eed0501051225585d1fe6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41DC6724.4090708@alltc.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

M Raju wrote:
| Hello guys...
|  I was wondering if anyone has come across a Linux Live CD(s), similar
| to Auditor (http://www.remote-exploit.org), for PPC. I run OS X on my
| PowerBook G4 and that Virtual PC for VMs is a real PoS. Not ventured
| into using bochs or qemu for running Linux...
[...]
~    I haven't found anything that will approach the effectiveness of
VirtualPC; however, a ix86 emulator running on OS X and a live CD
running natively on the Mac's PowerPC architecture are two entirely
different propositions.  You might search the Debian PowerPC Port's
mailing list[0]; there are some guys there who have played with Knoppix
and Ubuntu live CDs.

| Yes, most tools compile on OS X, but I rather have Linux for
| conducting pen-tests. If nothing I might have to consider running a
| dual boot Gentoo/OS X on the G4 to make maximum use of my Orinoco Gold
| card...
[...]
~    Of course, it depends upon your goals, but if you are looking to run
a distro on PowerPC, I would recommend at least entertaining Debian,
installing via one of the daily images from the new installer[1].  That
is my distribution of choice.
(NOTE: I refuse to spiral into another fruitless distro thread, so if
anyone gets the notion, do us all a favor.  And if you don't own a Mac,
trust me, you are in no position to comment on how suitable a distro is
for PowerPC architecture - unless you have an IBM pSeries sitting at
home 8^).)
~    Which Mac you have also predetermines how much hell you will go
through getting it to run.  Airport Extreme does not work, nor will it,
and later ATI cards don't have very stable sleep support yet.  nVidia
card-based Macs can forget about sleep capability.

Regards,
- --
Barry Hawkins
All Things Computed
site: www.alltc.com
weblog: www.yepthatsme.com

Registered Linux User #368650
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From rb211 at tds.net  Wed Jan  5 17:35:53 2005
From: rb211 at tds.net (William Bagwell)
Date: Wed Jan  5 17:35:53 2005
Subject: [ale] Problems w/ (VERY) new hardware...
In-Reply-To: <41DC60FD.60806@3times25.net>
References: <20050105195420.47230.qmail@web54410.mail.yahoo.com>
	<BAY13-DAV5075E0D3C47AF3891AEC090920@phx.gbl>
	<41DC60FD.60806@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <200501051731.55653.rb211@tds.net>

On Wednesday 05 January 2005 04:49 pm, Geoffrey wrote:
(Nvidia  drivers)
> Where are you located, you might be able to make it to an ALE meeting
> near you and get hands on help.

This would make an excellent topic. By strange coincidence I was attempting 
this on Mandrake this morning. (Got much further than Kelly but still have 
problems...)

Will still be intersted in seeing it done correctly even if I do muddle my 
way through. And I usually do too! Well, um er, eventually;-)
-- 
William


From jloden at toughguy.net  Wed Jan  5 17:50:30 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Wed Jan  5 17:50:30 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux Live CD (WiFi Audit) for PPC?
In-Reply-To: <41DC6724.4090708@alltc.com>
References: <64162eed0501051225585d1fe6@mail.gmail.com>
	<41DC6724.4090708@alltc.com>
Message-ID: <200501051744.30148.jloden@toughguy.net>

On Wednesday 05 January 2005 5:16, Barry Hawkins wrote:
> ~    Which Mac you have also predetermines how much hell you will go
> through getting it to run.  Airport Extreme does not work, nor will it,

I just wanted to verify, because I am trying to buy a 12 inch powerbook

Airport Extreme has zero support under Linux?  It will be pretty unlikely for 
me to bother running Linux on a PowerBook if I can't have wireless, and the 
12inch has no pcmcia card slot to use, either. I had planned on dual booting 
but maybe not...

-Jay


From sriad at uab.edu  Wed Jan  5 18:48:12 2005
From: sriad at uab.edu (Aditya Srinivasan)
Date: Wed Jan  5 18:48:12 2005
Subject: [ale] Problems w/ (VERY) new hardware...
In-Reply-To: <41DC6578.1060801@cybertechcafe.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0501051738020.10842-100000@metric.it.uab.edu>

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005, Nathan J. Underwood wrote:

> copy called /etc/inittab.bak-5jan2k51)
> 3) Using your text editor of choice, open the file /etc/inittab (the one 
> you just made a backup of), and look for a section (most likely at the 
> very top) that talks about "Default Runlevel" (example below).  Change 
> the first non-comment line (i.e. the first one that doesn't start with 
> the #) to id:3 rather than id:5.
> ** Now, the next time you reboot, you're going to boot into text only mode.
> 4) Reboot your computer, you'll boot into text only mode

Just curious : will telinit from a console not work ?

> 5) At the login prompt, login as root
> 6) Navigate to where you saved the nvidia installer
> 7) Run the installer.  The instructions on the nvidia website will 
> probably be helpful here
> 8) Once complete, copy your original /etc/inittab (the backup) to the 
> actual /etc/inittab.  To do this, you should be able to just:
> cp /etc/inittab.bak-5jan2k51 /etc/inittab
> This will set it to boot back into graphical mode

To help make things complete :
9. Reboot instructions:
shutdown   
-- Then power on the computer again.
OR 
reboot
OR ??
telinit 5 


Thanks,
sriad



From joe at madewell.com  Wed Jan  5 18:52:54 2005
From: joe at madewell.com (Joe Steele)
Date: Wed Jan  5 18:52:54 2005
Subject: [ale] fetchmail --antispam
Message-ID: <01C4F357.438DFE60@joe.local>

On Tuesday, January 04, 2005 11:20 PM, David S. Jackson wrote:
> I'm trying to tell fetchmail to treat any pop3 message with error 451
> as a spam message and to flush it, despite what the error says.
> Fetchmail wants to save all mail until it knows it's bad.  I'm
> telling it to override its default behavior because I know error 451
> (sender address doesn't resolve) is a spam error.  So I start
> fetchmail thusly:
>
> fetchmail --antispam 451
>
> However, the log tells me this:
>
>  *** snip ***
>  reading message dsj%dsj.net at pop.dsj.net:28 of 28 (5284 octets)
>  fetchmail: SMTP error: 451 4.1.8 Domain of sender address
>  rainer at augsburg.net does not resolve
>  ..... not flushed
>
> Why doesn't fetchmail believe me?  Why doesn't this message get
> flushed as I asked it to be?  All help welcome.  TIA!

There's a bug in the current fetchmail (6.2.5) that might be the 
cause of your problem.  The antispam feature should properly match 
responses to the "MAIL FROM" SMTP command.  And although it's 
supposed to also match responses to the "RCPT TO" SMTP command, the 
bug prevents any matches.

However, there is a question of whether this bug is the root of your 
problem.  Your sendmail is complaining about a sender address, and 
such a complaint would normally be raised in response to a "MAIL 
FROM" command (where the fetchmail bug doesn't apply).  On the other 
hand, there is a sendmail config option FEATURE(`delay_checks') 
which, when combined with the fetchmail bug, WOULD cause your 
problem.

You might try the following patch (which fixes the bug) and see if it 
solves your problem.

--Joe

--- fetchmail-6.2.5/sink.c	Wed Jan  5 17:39:00 2005
+++ fetchmail-6.2.5-new/sink.c	Wed Jan  5 17:41:08 2005
@@ -594,9 +594,18 @@
  * no PS_TRANSIENT, atleast one PS_SUCCESS: send the bounce mail, delete the mail;
  * no PS_TRANSIENT, no PS_SUCCESS: do not send the bounce mail, delete the mail */
 {
+    struct idlist *walk;
+    int found = 0;
     int smtperr = atoi(smtp_response);
+    for( walk = ctl->antispam; walk; walk = walk->next )
+        if ( walk->val.status.num == smtperr ) 
+	{ 
+		found=1;
+		break;
+	}
 
-    if (str_find(&ctl->antispam, smtperr))
+    /* if (str_find(&ctl->antispam, smtperr)) */
+    if ( found )
     {
 	if (run.spambounce)
 	 return(PS_SUCCESS);




From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Wed Jan  5 19:45:07 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Wed Jan  5 19:45:07 2005
Subject: [ale] Get this, guys...
In-Reply-To: <41DBE486.70101@3times25.net>
References: <20050105011950.BE16AA0194@mail.xtremesecurity.com>
	<200501050112.39511.tcarter@entrusion.com>
	<1104929364.12855.575.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>
	<41DBE486.70101@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <1104972079.12855.590.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>

On Wed, 2005-01-05 at 07:58, Geoffrey wrote:
> James P. Kinney III wrote:
> > On Tue, 2005-01-04 at 20:12, Tony Carter wrote:
> > 
> >>C'mon $20.. You could live like a king...
> >>
> >>On Wednesday 05 January 2005 01:19, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> >>
> >>>Someone just tried to get me to come out and contract in Oregon for $20/hr.
> >>>No travel, no per deim, no bennies.
> > 
> > 
> > $20/hr begins when you get in the car to drive there and ends when you
> > return home.
> 
> Now I can see billing for travel, but are you suggesting, 24 hour 
> billing? (I might be missing out on some out of town business!)

At $20/hr, it seems reasonable to include travel time and sleep time.

I would suggest a burro trip over a car :)
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From jsheets at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  5 19:50:26 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Wed Jan  5 19:50:26 2005
Subject: [ale] Get this, guys...
In-Reply-To: <1104972079.12855.590.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.49.1104972626.18563.ale@ale.org>

Ok, now you're just being bad...

--JMS 

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of James P.
Kinney III
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 7:41 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] Get this, guys...

On Wed, 2005-01-05 at 07:58, Geoffrey wrote:
> James P. Kinney III wrote:
> > On Tue, 2005-01-04 at 20:12, Tony Carter wrote:
> > 
> >>C'mon $20.. You could live like a king...
> >>
> >>On Wednesday 05 January 2005 01:19, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> >>
> >>>Someone just tried to get me to come out and contract in Oregon for
$20/hr.
> >>>No travel, no per deim, no bennies.
> > 
> > 
> > $20/hr begins when you get in the car to drive there and ends when 
> > you return home.
> 
> Now I can see billing for travel, but are you suggesting, 24 hour 
> billing? (I might be missing out on some out of town business!)

At $20/hr, it seems reasonable to include travel time and sleep time.

I would suggest a burro trip over a car :)
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com> Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659
6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.8 - Release Date: 1/3/2005
 
    

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.8 - Release Date: 1/3/2005
 


From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Wed Jan  5 19:51:46 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Wed Jan  5 19:51:46 2005
Subject: [ale] Expand newsgroup names in Mozilla Thunderbird
In-Reply-To: <200501051608.01431.rb211@tds.net>
References: <41DB0A2B.5020502@proteus-tech.com>
	<41DB7ACE.4000206@MaestroIT.com> <41DC4DCD.9070005@proteus-tech.com>
	<200501051608.01431.rb211@tds.net>
Message-ID: <1104972479.12855.593.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>

On Wed, 2005-01-05 at 16:08, William Bagwell wrote:

> 
> Have you tried Forte Agent?

The Linux complement is called Pan. The folks who wrote it must like the
, er, pictures as it was a fast update when a new newgroup picture
format came out on Forte Agent :)
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Wed Jan  5 19:54:25 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Wed Jan  5 19:54:25 2005
Subject: [ale] T1 provider
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050105162223.02844030@casbah.gatech.edu>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050105162223.02844030@casbah.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <1104972637.12855.596.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>

On Wed, 2005-01-05 at 16:24, Keith R. Watson wrote:

> 
> James,
> 
> I was recently looking into getting another T1 and I found that I could get 
> a 100Mb/s fiber feed from Cogent for $1000.00/month. This was roughly twice 
> the cost of a T1 depending on who you get it from. We ended up geting the 
> fiber feed.

Drool!! I'll look at that option _very_ seriously. I have a BS fiber at
the end of my driveway that needs a new home.
> 
> keith
> 
> -------------
> 
> Keith R. Watson                        GTRI/ISD
> Systems Support Specialist III         Georgia Tech Research Institute
> keith.watson at gtri.gatech.edu           Atlanta, GA  30332-0816
> 404-894-0836
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> !DSPAM:41dc5b8d232366364715299!
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Wed Jan  5 19:58:04 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Wed Jan  5 19:58:04 2005
Subject: [ale] Get this, guys...
In-Reply-To: <200501060047.j060lVZN001283@moat.localnetsolutions.com>
References: <200501060047.j060lVZN001283@moat.localnetsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <1104972830.12855.598.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>

On Wed, 2005-01-05 at 19:46, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> Ok, now you're just being bad...
You should see me at $10/hr ;)
> 
> --JMS 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of James P.
> Kinney III
> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 7:41 PM
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [ale] Get this, guys...
> 
> On Wed, 2005-01-05 at 07:58, Geoffrey wrote:
> > James P. Kinney III wrote:
> > > On Tue, 2005-01-04 at 20:12, Tony Carter wrote:
> > > 
> > >>C'mon $20.. You could live like a king...
> > >>
> > >>On Wednesday 05 January 2005 01:19, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>Someone just tried to get me to come out and contract in Oregon for
> $20/hr.
> > >>>No travel, no per deim, no bennies.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > $20/hr begins when you get in the car to drive there and ends when 
> > > you return home.
> > 
> > Now I can see billing for travel, but are you suggesting, 24 hour 
> > billing? (I might be missing out on some out of town business!)
> 
> At $20/hr, it seems reasonable to include travel time and sleep time.
> 
> I would suggest a burro trip over a car :)
> -- 
> James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
> CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
> Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
> 770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
> http://www.localnetsolutions.com
> 
> GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
> <jkinney at localnetsolutions.com> Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659
> 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
> 
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.8 - Release Date: 1/3/2005
>  
>     
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From fletch at phydeaux.org  Wed Jan  5 20:01:15 2005
From: fletch at phydeaux.org (fletch at phydeaux.org)
Date: Wed Jan  5 20:01:15 2005
Subject: [ale] (no subject)
Message-ID: <65366.24.98.129.46.1104973054.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org>

>>>>> "Christopher" == Christopher Fowler <cfowler at outpostsentinel.com>
writes:

[...]

    Christopher> My problem with perl is that the source program can
    Christopher> be modified to skip those checks.  One obvious
    Christopher> solution would be to modify the perl binary itself so
    Christopher> that those pieces of code we wrote could not be ran
    Christopher> without our perl binary but hell that is against the
    Christopher> perl license and still the perl program can be
    Christopher> modified.  How would one go about keeping someone
    Christopher> from reading a perl program and/or modifing it?

Perl is licensed under both the GPL and the Artistic license, the
latter says basically "do as you want so long as you make it clear
you've modified things and provide the originals".  See sections 3
(items b & c) and 4 (items a & c) of 'perldoc perlartistic'.


--
Fletch                | "If you find my answers frightening,       __`'/|
fletch at phydeaux.org|  Vincent, you should cease askin'          \ o.O'
                      |  scary questions." -- Jules                =(___)=
                      |                                               U




From transam at verysecurelinux.com  Wed Jan  5 20:09:52 2005
From: transam at verysecurelinux.com (Bob Toxen)
Date: Wed Jan  5 20:09:52 2005
Subject: [ale] fetchmail --antispam
In-Reply-To: <20050105042029.GI16084@scee.dsj.net>
References: <20050105042029.GI16084@scee.dsj.net>
Message-ID: <20050106005951.GA18752@verysecurelinux.com>

On Tue, Jan 04, 2005 at 11:20:29PM -0500, David S. Jackson wrote:
> Hi,

> I'm trying to tell fetchmail to treat any pop3 message with error 451
> as a spam message and to flush it, despite what the error says.
> Fetchmail wants to save all mail until it knows it's bad.  I'm
> telling it to override its default behavior because I know error 451
> (sender address doesn't resolve) is a spam error.  So I start
> fetchmail thusly:
I offer Enterprise-grade anti-spam and anti-virus software for Linux
that may be a more effective solution for you.  It can run either on
a Linux mail server or a Linux Firewall.  If running on a Firewall,
it does not matter what platform the mail servers behind the Firewall
are.

Best regards,

Bob Toxen, CTO
Fly-By-Day Consulting, Inc.
"Your expert in Firewalls, Virus and Spam Filters, VPNs,
Network Monitoring, and Network Security consulting"

http://www.verysecurelinux.com       [Network & Linux/Unix Security Consulting]
http://www.realworldlinuxsecurity.com [My 5* book: "Real World Linux Security"]
http://www.verysecurelinux.com/sunset.html                    [Sunset Computer]
bob at verysecurelinux.com (e-mail)
+1 770-662-8321  (Office: 10am-6pm M-F US Eastern Time)

Author,
"Real World Linux Security: Intrusion Detection, Prevention, and Recovery"
2nd Ed., Prentice Hall, (C) 2003, 848 pages, ISBN: 0130464562
Also available in Japanese, Chinese, and Czech.

If you spend more on coffee than on IT security, you will be hacked.
What's more, you deserve to be hacked.
-- White House cybersecurity adviser Richard Clarke

> fetchmail --antispam 451

> However, the log tells me this:

>  *** snip ***
>  reading message dsj%dsj.net at pop.dsj.net:28 of 28 (5284 octets)
>  fetchmail: SMTP error: 451 4.1.8 Domain of sender address
>  rainer at augsburg.net does not resolve
>  ..... not flushed

> Why doesn't fetchmail believe me?  Why doesn't this message get
> flushed as I asked it to be?  All help welcome.  TIA!


> -- 
> David S. Jackson                                dsj at dsj.net
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Fortune's Office Door Sign of the Week: 
> 	Incorrigible punster -- Do not incorrige.


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Wed Jan  5 20:14:00 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Wed Jan  5 20:14:00 2005
Subject: [ale] Problems w/ (VERY) new hardware...
In-Reply-To: <BAY13-DAV5075E0D3C47AF3891AEC090920@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <mailman.50.1104974039.18563.ale@ale.org>

Allrighty...

(rolls up sleeves)

NVIDIA installation for the noob.


Easy cheese here...


Download the package in the usual way, to your home directory.

Open a terminal window, and become your root user.  This is usually
accomplished through more secure ways, but use the "su" program.  (switch
user) .  Once you run "su" you will be prompted for Root's password.  Once
you become root, your prompt will change from a dollar sign ($) to a pound
sign (#), indicating you are now in root mode.  (BE VERY CAREFUL WHAT YOU
TYPE, AS YOU ARE NOW GOD ON YOUR SYSTEM)

Once here, type the following command:

init 3

This will cause a good number of things to occur, but do not be alarmed.
You may or may not be re -presented with a prompt...don't worry about this.
You can simply press <ENTER> once all the churning is done, and you should
be back to a prompt.  

Navigate to where the file is (/home/kelly I'd assume).  

(you may have already given it proper permissions, but I'll go into it here)

Type the following at your prompt:

chmod 755 <filename>

This will give the file permissions that allow you to run it.  Once it is
ready to run

(ls -al displays permissions on the file of -rwxr-xr-x)

Finally, run the file:

./<FILENAME>

It will bring you into a menu, and you will need to accept the license, etc.
etc.

Once your install is done, type the following:


cp /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf.bak


Use your console text editor (I prefer vi).  You may have pico installed
which would be much easier for you to use first time, but I'd suggest
learning vi if at all possible.

Follow the directions to edit xorg.conf

(if I recall, make sure that the line reading Load glx is commented and Load
GLCore isn't or something......I don't remember)

Once you've exited and saved the xorg.conf file, it's time to re-enter
runlevel 5.  That can be as simple as "init 5" just like you did when in X
earlier to enter runlevel 3.

Now as anathema as some people find it, you can also just reboot.  The only
drawback there is if there's a problem.  Then it'll try and force you to
init 5, and fail and fail,etc.  You choose which method you'd prefer....the
one I list here, or the one Nathan gave.

If all went well, you should see the Nvidia logo, and then a pretty new X
desktop.  It won't look very different, but GL will be recognized and your
games should start being run properly.  


Finally, if you need anything else the other suggestion of coming to an ALE
meeting is definitely a good move.


Jerald M. Sheets jr.
Sr. UNIX Systems Administrator
McKesson, Inc.
(404) 293-8762
**********
>su -
Password:
# cat /dev/flood > /dev/earth
# rdev noah+beasts
# dd if=noah+beasts of=/dev/earth

PGP Key: 0x6267F183

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GIT d+ s++: a C++++ UL++++ P++ L+++ E--- W++ N+ o-- K+ w-- 
O M+ V PS- PE++ Y+ PGP++ t++ 5++ X+ R* tv- b+ DI++++ D++ 
G+ e h---- r+++ y++++ 
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----





-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Kelly
Williams
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 4:23 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] Problems w/ (VERY) new hardware...

Thanks for you reply Jerald. Not to put too fine a point on it but I don't
know how to do ANY of what you wrote. I've read the instructions on nVidia's
site, the problem is that I've NEVER booted into or ran programs from a
non-graphical envirement. As well I wouldn'r know how to edit ANYTHING so
you see my problem. I'm a Windows convert w/o ANY real experience from the
command line. Tongue-lashing and brow-beating are more than welcome for a
guided tour :-)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerald Sheets" <jsheets at yahoo.com>
To: "Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts" <ale at ale.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 2:54 PM
Subject: Re: [ale] Problems w/ (VERY) new hardware...


> You can actually download the Nvidia installer from their website, 
> boot to runlevel 3, run the fully automated install routine, make the 
> suggested changes to your xorg.conf, and then boot back into runlevel 
> 5, and you should be set.
>
> --J
>
> --- Kelly Williams <mentat_assassin at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I'm looking for anyone in the Atlanta area who can help configure a 
> > GeForce 6800 GT to enable 3D acceleration. I've migrated from RH9 to 
> > Fedora 1 and 2 and finally to SuSE 9.1 (the FORMERLY free one). In 
> > doing so I've managed to stay pretty clear of the command line and 
> > this seems to be my undoing. Any help would be GREATLY APPRECIATED. 
> > I've been able to avoid my Windows partition for the better part of 
> > a year and I don't want to return just to play the latest games.
> >
> > BTW Slackware Zed, if you still watch these boards I like to hear 
> > from you.
> >
> > Kelly
> > 404.822.3100 (before 10PM)
> > mentat_assassin at hotmail.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.8 - Release Date: 1/3/2005
 

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.8 - Release Date: 1/3/2005
 


From rb211 at tds.net  Wed Jan  5 21:28:20 2005
From: rb211 at tds.net (William Bagwell)
Date: Wed Jan  5 21:28:20 2005
Subject: [ale] Expand newsgroup names in Mozilla Thunderbird
In-Reply-To: <1104972479.12855.593.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>
References: <41DB0A2B.5020502@proteus-tech.com>
	<200501051608.01431.rb211@tds.net>
	<1104972479.12855.593.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <200501052124.31380.rb211@tds.net>

On Wednesday 05 January 2005 07:48 pm, James P. Kinney III wrote:

> On Wed, 2005-01-05 at 16:08, William Bagwell wrote:
> > Have you tried Forte Agent?

> The Linux complement is called Pan. 

Tried it, hated it. Though KNode is worse because it looks so much like 
KMail yet behaves very differently. If they ever intragate the two giving 
KNode all of KMail's features. Then I *might* give up Agent:)

Mentioned Agent because he wanted "linux & windows solutions". Don't think 
Pan will run on Bloze.

> The folks who wrote it must like the 
> , er, pictures as it was a fast update when a new newgroup picture
> format came out on Forte Agent :)

Are you referring to yEnc or something more recent? A lot of us text (and 
many small picture) users were very pissed when Forte delayed a long 
promised upgrade to add yEnc support.
-- 
William


From scherrey at proteus-tech.com  Wed Jan  5 21:47:30 2005
From: scherrey at proteus-tech.com (Benjamin Scherrey)
Date: Wed Jan  5 21:47:30 2005
Subject: [ale] Expand newsgroup names in Mozilla Thunderbird
In-Reply-To: <1104972479.12855.593.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>
References: <41DB0A2B.5020502@proteus-tech.com>	<41DB7ACE.4000206@MaestroIT.com>
	<41DC4DCD.9070005@proteus-tech.com>	<200501051608.01431.rb211@tds.net>
	<1104972479.12855.593.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <41DCA5E3.3080302@proteus-tech.com>

I thought Pan was strictly a newsgroup reader. I guesss Forte is as 
well? I'm mainly interested in the email aspects but its nice to be able 
to follow a few technical groups from the same interface.

    -- Ben Scherrey

James P. Kinney III wrote:

>On Wed, 2005-01-05 at 16:08, William Bagwell wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Have you tried Forte Agent?
>>    
>>
>
>The Linux complement is called Pan. The folks who wrote it must like the
>, er, pictures as it was a fast update when a new newgroup picture
>format came out on Forte Agent :)
>  
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>Ale mailing list
>Ale at ale.org
>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>


From barry at alltc.com  Wed Jan  5 22:37:02 2005
From: barry at alltc.com (Barry Hawkins)
Date: Wed Jan  5 22:37:02 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux Live CD (WiFi Audit) for PPC?
In-Reply-To: <200501051744.30148.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <64162eed0501051225585d1fe6@mail.gmail.com>	<41DC6724.4090708@alltc.com>
	<200501051744.30148.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <41DCB17F.9010007@alltc.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Jay Loden wrote:
| On Wednesday 05 January 2005 5:16, Barry Hawkins wrote:
|
| Airport Extreme has zero support under Linux?  It will be pretty
unlikely for
| me to bother running Linux on a PowerBook if I can't have wireless,
and the
| 12inch has no pcmcia card slot to use, either. I had planned on dual
booting
| but maybe not...
|
| -Jay
Jay,
~    Yes, sadly, any 12" PowerBook is not a great idea, since they have
Airport Extreme and no PCMCIA slot. Airport Extreme is a mini-PCI NIC
with a Broadcom chipset.  Broadcom chipset == no way in hell, more or
less.  There's a petition online that you can sign, but we know how that
goes.  You can search the Debian PowerPC mailing list archives for lots
of talk about this[0].  If it is an nVidia-based 12", that's even worse.
~    For Linux on Apple hardware enthusiasts, the golden age of Apple
laptops was the last iBook G3 and the last Titanium PowerBook G4 (1GHz).
~ These have video cards that have supported sleep for a long time and
Airport cards which are fully supported in the stock kernel since way
back, which are typically the sore spots for us.
~    Sleep support is currently showing good results as a test patch from
Benjamin Herrenschmidt (the PowerPC Linux kernel guru) for ATI-based
Aluminum PowerBooks, but still no hope for Airport Extreme.  Most folks
usually snag a PCMCIA/CardBus NIC for wireless on the Aluminum PowerBook
15" and 17" series
~    Also Google for "debian powerbook install" and you will hit most of
the common URLs that are good resources.  I rolled some of them into a
weblog entry some time ago[1].

[0] - http://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/
[1] - http://www.yepthatsme.com/blogarch/000009.html

Regards,
- --
Barry Hawkins
All Things Computed
site: www.alltc.com
weblog: www.yepthatsme.com

Registered Linux User #368650
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From rb211 at tds.net  Wed Jan  5 22:41:41 2005
From: rb211 at tds.net (William Bagwell)
Date: Wed Jan  5 22:41:41 2005
Subject: [ale] Expand newsgroup names in Mozilla Thunderbird
In-Reply-To: <41DCA5E3.3080302@proteus-tech.com>
References: <41DB0A2B.5020502@proteus-tech.com>
	<1104972479.12855.593.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>
	<41DCA5E3.3080302@proteus-tech.com>
Message-ID: <200501052237.19678.rb211@tds.net>

On Wednesday 05 January 2005 09:43 pm, Benjamin Scherrey wrote:
> I thought Pan was strictly a newsgroup reader. I guesss Forte is as
> well? I'm mainly interested in the email aspects but its nice to be able
> to follow a few technical groups from the same interface.

Pan is news only, Agent is both. Certainly more well known and used as a 
newsreader. The reason I'm still using KMail is because Agent was so flaky 
under the free Wine and I have only recently discovered CrossOver. I do 
want to return to an intragated mail & news...
-- 
William


From rb211 at tds.net  Wed Jan  5 23:05:04 2005
From: rb211 at tds.net (William Bagwell)
Date: Wed Jan  5 23:05:04 2005
Subject: [ale] Problems w/ (VERY) new hardware...
In-Reply-To: <20050106011041.NCXW28285.inaamta01.mail.tds.net@mail.room17.com>
References: <20050106011041.NCXW28285.inaamta01.mail.tds.net@mail.room17.com>
Message-ID: <200501052301.20111.rb211@tds.net>

On Wednesday 05 January 2005 08:10 pm, Jerald Sheets wrote:
>snips
> Once you've exited and saved the xorg.conf file, it's time to re-enter
> runlevel 5. ?That can be as simple as "init 5" just like you did when in
> X earlier to enter runlevel 3.

Kewl, this speeds things up a bunch, thanks for the tip!

Where I'm at now: 

Driver *is* installed and I can force it to load with "modprobe nvidia" then 
using your shortcut X and KDE starts. Have tested (with both a game and a 
movie) and do have accelerated graphics! Upon rebooting it gives the same 
error I was getting before I found the forcing suggestion.

Failed to initialize the NVIDIA kernel module!
Screen(s) found, but none have a useable configuration.

Am currently searching nvnews.net... Hmm, just found this; "Put nvidia 
in /etc/modprobe.preload." Will report back later, my son is playing with 
the test box now;-)

Oh, earlier today I was chasing a red herring error message. The installer 
gives a warning about a "rivafb module". This is a non issue on Mandrake 
10.1 and can safely be ignored, not sure about other distros.
-- 
William


From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Thu Jan  6 08:00:45 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Thu Jan  6 08:00:45 2005
Subject: [ale] Procmail Filter
Message-ID: <1105016172.9111.6.camel@linux.linxdev.com>

I get many spam emails per day that have no subject and no email body. 
Not sure why.  I would like to add a procmail rule that will send all
emails with no Subject to my Spam folder.  Can someone tell me how I can
do this?

Thanks,
Chris


From protocoljunkie at gmail.com  Thu Jan  6 08:26:31 2005
From: protocoljunkie at gmail.com (M Raju)
Date: Thu Jan  6 08:26:31 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux Live CD (WiFi Audit) for PPC?
In-Reply-To: <41DCB17F.9010007@alltc.com>
References: <64162eed0501051225585d1fe6@mail.gmail.com>
	<41DC6724.4090708@alltc.com> <200501051744.30148.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<41DCB17F.9010007@alltc.com>
Message-ID: <64162eed05010605227dcb53d@mail.gmail.com>

Barry,
   Thanks for the input. I guess I am going to grab myself an x86 box
and maybe later on pursue making a Live CD after working install of
Linux on PPC G4 one of these days ;-)

Cheers...

_Raju


On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 22:33:19 -0500, Barry Hawkins <barry at alltc.com> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Jay Loden wrote:
> | On Wednesday 05 January 2005 5:16, Barry Hawkins wrote:
> |
> | Airport Extreme has zero support under Linux?  It will be pretty
> unlikely for
> | me to bother running Linux on a PowerBook if I can't have wireless,
> and the
> | 12inch has no pcmcia card slot to use, either. I had planned on dual
> booting
> | but maybe not...
> |
> | -Jay
> Jay,
> ~    Yes, sadly, any 12" PowerBook is not a great idea, since they have
> Airport Extreme and no PCMCIA slot. Airport Extreme is a mini-PCI NIC
> with a Broadcom chipset.  Broadcom chipset == no way in hell, more or
> less.  There's a petition online that you can sign, but we know how that
> goes.  You can search the Debian PowerPC mailing list archives for lots
> of talk about this[0].  If it is an nVidia-based 12", that's even worse.
> ~    For Linux on Apple hardware enthusiasts, the golden age of Apple
> laptops was the last iBook G3 and the last Titanium PowerBook G4 (1GHz).
> ~ These have video cards that have supported sleep for a long time and
> Airport cards which are fully supported in the stock kernel since way
> back, which are typically the sore spots for us.
> ~    Sleep support is currently showing good results as a test patch from
> Benjamin Herrenschmidt (the PowerPC Linux kernel guru) for ATI-based
> Aluminum PowerBooks, but still no hope for Airport Extreme.  Most folks
> usually snag a PCMCIA/CardBus NIC for wireless on the Aluminum PowerBook
> 15" and 17" series
> ~    Also Google for "debian powerbook install" and you will hit most of
> the common URLs that are good resources.  I rolled some of them into a
> weblog entry some time ago[1].
> 
> [0] - http://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/
> [1] - http://www.yepthatsme.com/blogarch/000009.html
> 
> Regards,
> - --
> Barry Hawkins
> All Things Computed
> site: www.alltc.com
> weblog: www.yepthatsme.com
> 
> Registered Linux User #368650
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux)
> 
> iD8DBQFB3LF/7bZ6kUftWZwRAimQAJ9O8Xxe0Yo3dwsx7+pz3LAsHlA8HgCfbBzq
> zCRjP99bFAmJguAiIuStaJ8=
> =7LD3
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 


-- 
May the packets be with you.


From trey at fastmail.fm  Thu Jan  6 08:34:34 2005
From: trey at fastmail.fm (Trey Sizemore)
Date: Thu Jan  6 08:34:34 2005
Subject: [ale] ALE NE meeting
Message-ID: <1105018250.5558.212132732@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Will there be a meeting tonight and what is the subject, if so.
-- 
  Trey Sizemore
  trey at fastmail.fm


From evanwieren at gmail.com  Thu Jan  6 09:36:23 2005
From: evanwieren at gmail.com (Eric VanWieren)
Date: Thu Jan  6 09:36:23 2005
Subject: [ale] NW ALE meeting
In-Reply-To: <s1d98800.091@inet.eastcobbgroup.com>
References: <s1d98800.091@inet.eastcobbgroup.com>
Message-ID: <18de987705010606327954ed60@mail.gmail.com>

I think a good topic would be an introduction to kernel hacking. Just
a thought, but for those interested, it would be a good starting
point.

Eric


On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 17:59:04 -0500, James Taylor
<James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com> wrote:
> I'd be happy to show off the Novell Open Enterprise Server beta in
> February if anyone's interested.
> -jt
> 
> James Taylor
> The East Cobb Group, Inc.
> james.taylor at eastcobbgroup.com
> 678-697-9420
> 
> >>>audilover at speedfactory.net 01/03/05 5:42 pm >>>
> On Mon, 2004-11-29 at 20:53 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> >Raylynn Knight wrote:
> >
> >>I should be able to make it this month.
> >
> >Excellent.
> >
> >>Do we have a topic for January yet?  If not perhaps we could get take
> >>some requests for topics. If I know enough about any of the proposed
> >>topics I'd be willing to do a presentation for January or February.
> >
> >So we have an offer to do a presentation in January or February, any
> >suggestions?  Feel free to offer your own Ray.  Thanks for the offer.
> >
> Do we have a topic for January?
> 
> I never saw any responses (i.e. request for presentation of a particular
> 
> topic).  Let's hear from some potential attendees what topic would
> motivate them to attend a meeting.  If I don't have enough knowledge of
> the topic(s) I'm sure we can locate someone who does.  I think Geoffrey
> would appreciate having a topic set for a few months in advance.
> 
> --
> Raylynn Knight <audilover at speedfactory.net>
> 
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  6 09:42:54 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Thu Jan  6 09:42:54 2005
Subject: [ale] Procmail Filter
In-Reply-To: <1105016172.9111.6.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
References: <1105016172.9111.6.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
Message-ID: <1105022323.2842.7.camel@blue>

On Thu, 2005-01-06 at 07:56 -0500, Christopher Fowler wrote:
> I get many spam emails per day that have no subject and no email body. 
> Not sure why.  I would like to add a procmail rule that will send all
> emails with no Subject to my Spam folder.  Can someone tell me how I can
> do this?

For starters... Is the Subject empty or non-existent?

Try this recipe for an empty Subject:

   :0
   * ^Subject:[ ]*\/[^ ].*
   /var/log/spam/empty-subject-`date +%Y-%m-%d`


Try this one for a non-existent Subject:

   :0 
   * !^Subject: 
   /var/log/spam/missing-subject-`date +%Y-%m-%d`


hth,

-Jim P.




From glass-keyword-ale.91ffac at holos.com  Thu Jan  6 10:16:26 2005
From: glass-keyword-ale.91ffac at holos.com (Frank Glass)
Date: Thu Jan  6 10:16:26 2005
Subject: [ale] lame servers, spam blocking and ale
Message-ID: <1105024360.41dd5568f2a2d@smtp2.office.holos.com>

After a month of data collection from logs, I came to the conclusion that
all of the "lame server" entries resulting from smtp clients sending spam.
I had the idea that I would save some processing if I crafted a script to
block these people at the firewall for perhaps 24 hours.

Then we get this:

Jan  6 09:33:20 smtp2 named[6146]: lame server resolving 'ale.org' (in
'ale.org'?): 209.125.90.75#53


Comments?  

Frank
-- 
Frank Glass
Holos Software, Inc.





-------------------------------------------------
Holos Software, Inc. http://holos.com


From greg.freemyer at gmail.com  Thu Jan  6 10:22:52 2005
From: greg.freemyer at gmail.com (Greg Freemyer)
Date: Thu Jan  6 10:22:52 2005
Subject: [ale] NW ALE meeting
In-Reply-To: <18de987705010606327954ed60@mail.gmail.com>
References: <s1d98800.091@inet.eastcobbgroup.com>
	<18de987705010606327954ed60@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87f94c370501060718758f840c@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 09:32:25 -0500, Eric VanWieren wrote:
> I think a good topic would be an introduction to kernel hacking. Just
> a thought, but for those interested, it would be a good starting
> point.
> 
> Eric
> 
I'd like to attend that one.

I even have a kernel todo that may be simple enough to be a demo.

I want to understand how the "hdparm -r" command operates in the
kernel and why it does not work with 2.6.8 (at least on my hardware).

I know it is an ioctl (BLKROSET) call from user space, but from there
I totally lose it.

Unfortunately there seem to be 3 independant core driver areas just
for ATA drives.  (Basic ide for MB controllers, advanced for PCI based
controllers, libata for SATA drives.)

It is all very confusing, and the ioctl implementations seem to be pure magic.

Greg
-- 
Greg Freemyer


From barry at alltc.com  Thu Jan  6 10:45:35 2005
From: barry at alltc.com (Barry Hawkins)
Date: Thu Jan  6 10:45:35 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux Live CD (WiFi Audit) for PPC?
In-Reply-To: <64162eed05010605227dcb53d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <64162eed0501051225585d1fe6@mail.gmail.com>	<41DC6724.4090708@alltc.com>
	<200501051744.30148.jloden@toughguy.net>	<41DCB17F.9010007@alltc.com>
	<64162eed05010605227dcb53d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41DD5C09.4050802@alltc.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

M Raju wrote:
| Barry,
|    Thanks for the input. I guess I am going to grab myself an x86 box
| and maybe later on pursue making a Live CD after working install of
| Linux on PPC G4 one of these days ;-)
|
| Cheers...
|
| _Raju
[...]
You?e welcome.  If you do come up with a PPC Live CD, please share 8^)

- --
Barry Hawkins
All Things Computed
site: www.alltc.com
weblog: www.yepthatsme.com

Registered Linux User #368650
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From stillwaxin at gmail.com  Thu Jan  6 10:47:00 2005
From: stillwaxin at gmail.com (Michael Still)
Date: Thu Jan  6 10:47:00 2005
Subject: [ale] ALE NE meeting
In-Reply-To: <1105018250.5558.212132732@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <1105018250.5558.212132732@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <12bbc01c050106074213ba35fc@mail.gmail.com>

Yes there will be one.  Subject is hacking the Linksys WRTG54gs.  I'm
trying to wrap up the details right now.


On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 08:30:50 -0500, Trey Sizemore <trey at fastmail.fm> wrote:
> Will there be a meeting tonight and what is the subject, if so.
> --
>   Trey Sizemore
>   trey at fastmail.fm
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>


From greg.freemyer at gmail.com  Thu Jan  6 10:50:22 2005
From: greg.freemyer at gmail.com (Greg Freemyer)
Date: Thu Jan  6 10:50:22 2005
Subject: [ale] Badness in out_of_memory/oom_kill.c
Message-ID: <87f94c37050106074642bf9f5@mail.gmail.com>

Where should I report this kernel issue?

I'm pretty sure there are several mailing-lists associated with the
kernel, and I don't know which one would be best for this.  (Or maybe
just to SuSE, since it is there 2.6.8 kernel).

===
I can repeatedly cause the below in /var/log/warn, and my command
reports terminated.

Jan  6 10:42:01 tapeserver kernel: Badness in out_of_memory at mm/oom_kill.c:252
Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c0139492>] out_of_memory+0x22/0xc0
Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c0140f71>] try_to_free_pages+0x181/0x190
Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c013a5ff>] __alloc_pages+0x28f/0x3b0
Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c013cf7c>]
do_page_cache_readahead+0xec/0x130
Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c01375af>] filemap_nopage+0x23f/0x310
Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c014414e>] do_no_page+0x9e/0x270
Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c01444d2>] handle_mm_fault+0xf2/0x120
Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c01179d7>] do_page_fault+0x1c7/0x5bf
Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c0117810>] do_page_fault+0x0/0x5bf
Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c0106d9d>] error_code+0x2d/0x40
Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c016129a>] poll_freewait+0x3a/0x50
Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c0161ee0>] sys_poll+0x150/0x220
Jan  6 10:42:20 tapeserver kernel:  [<c01612b0>] __pollwait+0x0/0xa0
Jan  6 10:42:21 tapeserver kernel:  [<c0117810>] do_page_fault+0x0/0x5bf
Jan  6 10:42:21 tapeserver kernel:  [<c0106d9d>] error_code+0x2d/0x40

I have 256 MB of RAM on an Intel machine, and I am issueing the
userspace command dosfsck /dev/hdc1.  hdc1 is a 250 GB FAT32 partition
with 200+ GB of data on it.

Thanks
Greg
-- 
Greg Freemyer


From barry at alltc.com  Thu Jan  6 10:57:06 2005
From: barry at alltc.com (Barry Hawkins)
Date: Thu Jan  6 10:57:06 2005
Subject: [ale] ALE NE meeting
In-Reply-To: <12bbc01c050106074213ba35fc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1105018250.5558.212132732@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<12bbc01c050106074213ba35fc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41DD5EEB.7080907@alltc.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Michael Still wrote:
| Yes there will be one.  Subject is hacking the Linksys WRTG54gs.
[...]
Sweet.  I was just thinking about getting into that last week.

- --
Barry Hawkins
All Things Computed
site: www.alltc.com
weblog: www.yepthatsme.com

Registered Linux User #368650
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From mike at tyderia.net  Thu Jan  6 11:00:16 2005
From: mike at tyderia.net (Mike Murphy)
Date: Thu Jan  6 11:00:16 2005
Subject: [ale] Badness in out_of_memory/oom_kill.c
In-Reply-To: <87f94c37050106074642bf9f5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <87f94c37050106074642bf9f5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41DD5E7E.5000906@tyderia.net>

depending on the distro, its often best to report bugs to the distro, 
and not to the original auther. Suse is one distro that has a mature 
issue reporting process (and even a publicly available bugzilla, if 
memory serves), so reporting this to them is probably the best move.

Mike


Greg Freemyer wrote:
> Where should I report this kernel issue?
> 
> I'm pretty sure there are several mailing-lists associated with the
> kernel, and I don't know which one would be best for this.  (Or maybe
> just to SuSE, since it is there 2.6.8 kernel).
> 
> ===
> I can repeatedly cause the below in /var/log/warn, and my command
> reports terminated.
> 
> Jan  6 10:42:01 tapeserver kernel: Badness in out_of_memory at mm/oom_kill.c:252
> Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c0139492>] out_of_memory+0x22/0xc0
> Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c0140f71>] try_to_free_pages+0x181/0x190
> Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c013a5ff>] __alloc_pages+0x28f/0x3b0
> Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c013cf7c>]
> do_page_cache_readahead+0xec/0x130
> Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c01375af>] filemap_nopage+0x23f/0x310
> Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c014414e>] do_no_page+0x9e/0x270
> Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c01444d2>] handle_mm_fault+0xf2/0x120
> Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c01179d7>] do_page_fault+0x1c7/0x5bf
> Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c0117810>] do_page_fault+0x0/0x5bf
> Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c0106d9d>] error_code+0x2d/0x40
> Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c016129a>] poll_freewait+0x3a/0x50
> Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c0161ee0>] sys_poll+0x150/0x220
> Jan  6 10:42:20 tapeserver kernel:  [<c01612b0>] __pollwait+0x0/0xa0
> Jan  6 10:42:21 tapeserver kernel:  [<c0117810>] do_page_fault+0x0/0x5bf
> Jan  6 10:42:21 tapeserver kernel:  [<c0106d9d>] error_code+0x2d/0x40
> 
> I have 256 MB of RAM on an Intel machine, and I am issueing the
> userspace command dosfsck /dev/hdc1.  hdc1 is a 250 GB FAT32 partition
> with 200+ GB of data on it.
> 
> Thanks
> Greg

-- 

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Mike Murphy
781 Inman Mews Drive Atlanta GA 30307
Landline: 404-653-1070
Mobile: 404-545-6234
Email: mike at tyderia.net
AIM: mmichael453
JDAM: 33:45:14.0584N  84:21:43.038W
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+


From barry at alltc.com  Thu Jan  6 11:00:51 2005
From: barry at alltc.com (Barry Hawkins)
Date: Thu Jan  6 11:00:51 2005
Subject: [ale] Badness in out_of_memory/oom_kill.c
In-Reply-To: <87f94c37050106074642bf9f5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <87f94c37050106074642bf9f5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41DD5FCB.2000608@alltc.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Greg Freemyer wrote:
| Where should I report this kernel issue?
|
| I'm pretty sure there are several mailing-lists associated with the
| kernel, and I don't know which one would be best for this.  (Or maybe
| just to SuSE, since it is there 2.6.8 kernel).
[...]
|
| Thanks
| Greg
I would guess that if it's a kernel packaged by SuSE, report it to them
and they will file bug reports upstream if necessary.  Not a SuSE user,
though, so someone else may have better information.

- --
Barry Hawkins
All Things Computed
site: www.alltc.com
weblog: www.yepthatsme.com

Registered Linux User #368650
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From retief at larp.com  Thu Jan  6 11:02:15 2005
From: retief at larp.com (Jay Finch)
Date: Thu Jan  6 11:02:15 2005
Subject: [ale] ALE NE meeting
In-Reply-To: <12bbc01c050106074213ba35fc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1105018250.5558.212132732@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<12bbc01c050106074213ba35fc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <60537.66.156.100.40.1105027130.squirrel@66.156.100.40>

Even though I won't be able to make it tonight, I'd love to read a quick
recap/synopsis on this subject.  I've been looking into getting one of
these routers so I could play around with the Custom Linux distros for it,
so please feel free to share the knowledge!

Thanks!
Jay


> Yes there will be one.  Subject is hacking the Linksys WRTG54gs.  I'm
> trying to wrap up the details right now.
>
>
> On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 08:30:50 -0500, Trey Sizemore <trey at fastmail.fm>
> wrote:
>> Will there be a meeting tonight and what is the subject, if so.
>> --
>>   Trey Sizemore
>>   trey at fastmail.fm
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ale mailing list
>> Ale at ale.org
>> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>



From esoteric at 3times25.net  Thu Jan  6 11:02:54 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Thu Jan  6 11:02:54 2005
Subject: [ale] NW ALE meeting
In-Reply-To: <1104792146.727.17.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
References: <41AB4118.6020106@3times25.net>	<200411291817.34568.rb211@tds.net>
	<41ABB834.8090705@3times25.net>	<1101779081.26918.5.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>	<41ABD28B.4080604@3times25.net>
	<1104792146.727.17.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
Message-ID: <41DD603A.9000105@3times25.net>

Raylynn Knight wrote:

> Do we have a topic for January?

I had a discussion with Dr. Gayler at the last meeting.  He's going to 
try and get some of the students more involved.  He's suggested two 
presentations.  One on 'bash' for newbies and another on 'text editors 
for newbies.' (vi and, well, I guess emacs would be okay.. :) )

David Jackson did a bash presentation at one time, but I know he's 
pretty busy of late with a version 2.0 added to the family. :)

Anyone else interested in presenting any of the above this month?

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From tfreeman at intel.digichem.net  Thu Jan  6 11:08:23 2005
From: tfreeman at intel.digichem.net (tfreeman at intel.digichem.net)
Date: Thu Jan  6 11:08:23 2005
Subject: [ale] Problems w/ (VERY) new hardware...
In-Reply-To: <20050106010043.1D70D3B4E3@intel.digichem.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0501061053370.8179-100000@intel.digichem.net>


FWIW, very nicely done. I didn't need it, but I can applaud a good job.

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005, Jerald Sheets wrote:

> Allrighty...
> 
> (rolls up sleeves)
> 
> NVIDIA installation for the noob.
> 
> 
> Easy cheese here...
> 
> 
> Download the package in the usual way, to your home directory.
> 
> Open a terminal window, and become your root user.  This is usually
> accomplished through more secure ways, but use the "su" program.  (switch
> user) .  Once you run "su" you will be prompted for Root's password.  Once
> you become root, your prompt will change from a dollar sign ($) to a pound
> sign (#), indicating you are now in root mode.  (BE VERY CAREFUL WHAT YOU
> TYPE, AS YOU ARE NOW GOD ON YOUR SYSTEM)
> 
> Once here, type the following command:
> 
> init 3
> 
> This will cause a good number of things to occur, but do not be alarmed.
> You may or may not be re -presented with a prompt...don't worry about this.
> You can simply press <ENTER> once all the churning is done, and you should
> be back to a prompt.  
> 
> Navigate to where the file is (/home/kelly I'd assume).  
> 
> (you may have already given it proper permissions, but I'll go into it here)
> 
> Type the following at your prompt:
> 
> chmod 755 <filename>
> 
> This will give the file permissions that allow you to run it.  Once it is
> ready to run
> 
> (ls -al displays permissions on the file of -rwxr-xr-x)
> 
> Finally, run the file:
> 
> ./<FILENAME>
> 
> It will bring you into a menu, and you will need to accept the license, etc.
> etc.
> 
> Once your install is done, type the following:
> 
> 
> cp /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf.bak
> 
> 
> Use your console text editor (I prefer vi).  You may have pico installed
> which would be much easier for you to use first time, but I'd suggest
> learning vi if at all possible.
> 
> Follow the directions to edit xorg.conf
> 
> (if I recall, make sure that the line reading Load glx is commented and Load
> GLCore isn't or something......I don't remember)
> 
> Once you've exited and saved the xorg.conf file, it's time to re-enter
> runlevel 5.  That can be as simple as "init 5" just like you did when in X
> earlier to enter runlevel 3.
> 
> Now as anathema as some people find it, you can also just reboot.  The only
> drawback there is if there's a problem.  Then it'll try and force you to
> init 5, and fail and fail,etc.  You choose which method you'd prefer....the
> one I list here, or the one Nathan gave.
> 
> If all went well, you should see the Nvidia logo, and then a pretty new X
> desktop.  It won't look very different, but GL will be recognized and your
> games should start being run properly.  
> 
> 
> Finally, if you need anything else the other suggestion of coming to an ALE
> meeting is definitely a good move.
> 
> 
> Jerald M. Sheets jr.
> Sr. UNIX Systems Administrator
> McKesson, Inc.
> (404) 293-8762
> **********
> >su -
> Password:
> # cat /dev/flood > /dev/earth
> # rdev noah+beasts
> # dd if=noah+beasts of=/dev/earth
> 
> PGP Key: 0x6267F183
> 
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> Version: 3.12
> GIT d+ s++: a C++++ UL++++ P++ L+++ E--- W++ N+ o-- K+ w-- 
> O M+ V PS- PE++ Y+ PGP++ t++ 5++ X+ R* tv- b+ DI++++ D++ 
> G+ e h---- r+++ y++++ 
> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Kelly
> Williams
> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 4:23 PM
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [ale] Problems w/ (VERY) new hardware...
> 
> Thanks for you reply Jerald. Not to put too fine a point on it but I don't
> know how to do ANY of what you wrote. I've read the instructions on nVidia's
> site, the problem is that I've NEVER booted into or ran programs from a
> non-graphical envirement. As well I wouldn'r know how to edit ANYTHING so
> you see my problem. I'm a Windows convert w/o ANY real experience from the
> command line. Tongue-lashing and brow-beating are more than welcome for a
> guided tour :-)
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jerald Sheets" <jsheets at yahoo.com>
> To: "Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts" <ale at ale.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 2:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [ale] Problems w/ (VERY) new hardware...
> 
> 
> > You can actually download the Nvidia installer from their website, 
> > boot to runlevel 3, run the fully automated install routine, make the 
> > suggested changes to your xorg.conf, and then boot back into runlevel 
> > 5, and you should be set.
> >
> > --J
> >
> > --- Kelly Williams <mentat_assassin at hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I'm looking for anyone in the Atlanta area who can help configure a 
> > > GeForce 6800 GT to enable 3D acceleration. I've migrated from RH9 to 
> > > Fedora 1 and 2 and finally to SuSE 9.1 (the FORMERLY free one). In 
> > > doing so I've managed to stay pretty clear of the command line and 
> > > this seems to be my undoing. Any help would be GREATLY APPRECIATED. 
> > > I've been able to avoid my Windows partition for the better part of 
> > > a year and I don't want to return just to play the latest games.
> > >
> > > BTW Slackware Zed, if you still watch these boards I like to hear 
> > > from you.
> > >
> > > Kelly
> > > 404.822.3100 (before 10PM)
> > > mentat_assassin at hotmail.com
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ale mailing list
> > > Ale at ale.org
> > > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.8 - Release Date: 1/3/2005
>  
> 
> 

-- 
=============================================
If you think Education is expensive
Try Ignorance
                   Author Unknown
============================================


From barry at alltc.com  Thu Jan  6 11:15:58 2005
From: barry at alltc.com (Barry Hawkins)
Date: Thu Jan  6 11:15:58 2005
Subject: [ale] Sun revokes Java license for FreeBSD Foundation
Message-ID: <41DD635A.5010701@alltc.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Guys,
~    Those of you who were at the November ALE Central meeting on Java
and Linux may remember discussion of FreeBSD's licensing agreements with
Sun.  Well, in another brilliant stroke, Sun has revoked the FreeBSD
foundation's SCSL license to distribute their binaries.  It's on
Slashdot[0], and you can find links to more specific documents there.
The link to the FreeBSD foundation newsletter spells things out pretty
clearly in the section labeled "Java Update"[1].
~    How very, very unfortunate.

[0] -
http://bsd.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/01/06/0647249&tid=108&tid=102&tid=7
[1] - http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/press/20041221-newsletter.shtml

Regards,
- --
Barry Hawkins
All Things Computed
site: www.alltc.com
weblog: www.yepthatsme.com

Registered Linux User #368650
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From barry at alltc.com  Thu Jan  6 11:18:14 2005
From: barry at alltc.com (Barry Hawkins)
Date: Thu Jan  6 11:18:14 2005
Subject: [ale] ALE NE meeting
In-Reply-To: <60537.66.156.100.40.1105027130.squirrel@66.156.100.40>
References: <1105018250.5558.212132732@webmail.messagingengine.com>	<12bbc01c050106074213ba35fc@mail.gmail.com>
	<60537.66.156.100.40.1105027130.squirrel@66.156.100.40>
Message-ID: <41DD63E2.7060207@alltc.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Jay Finch wrote:
| Even though I won't be able to make it tonight, I'd love to read a quick
| recap/synopsis on this subject.  I've been looking into getting one of
| these routers so I could play around with the Custom Linux distros for it,
| so please feel free to share the knowledge!
|
| Thanks!
| Jay
[...]
I would like this too, since I just realized this is for the NE and not
the Central meeting.

- --
Barry Hawkins
All Things Computed
site: www.alltc.com
weblog: www.yepthatsme.com

Registered Linux User #368650
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From jb at sourceillustrated.com  Thu Jan  6 11:19:13 2005
From: jb at sourceillustrated.com (John Wells)
Date: Thu Jan  6 11:19:13 2005
Subject: [ale] terminal sharing between users
Message-ID: <20050106122212.uansbhxv2qm8w8kw@devsea.com>

Anyone know of any vnc-like tool for Unix terminals that allows sharing of one
terminal between two user ids?

Sort of desktop sharing without the desktop?

Thanks!

John


From bluejay at speedfactory.net  Thu Jan  6 11:22:24 2005
From: bluejay at speedfactory.net (Jim Seymour)
Date: Thu Jan  6 11:22:24 2005
Subject: [ale] Crossover cable or CAT 5e question
Message-ID: <20050106161400.GA25222@speedfactory.net>

Hi All,

I am setting my Linux box up as a router for a dsl connection. At
present a Windows XP box is all that will be connected to it. I have not
been able to locate a definite answer as to whether I have to use a
crossover cable to connect them or if I can use regular CAT 5e. At
present the windows box says the cable is disconnected (not true). I
just wanted some feedback before I plopped down the money for a
crossover. This is my very first venture down the path of networking.

Thanks,

Jim Seymour


From Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net  Thu Jan  6 11:37:21 2005
From: Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net (Robert L. Harris)
Date: Thu Jan  6 11:37:21 2005
Subject: [ale] Crossover cable or CAT 5e question
In-Reply-To: <20050106161400.GA25222@speedfactory.net>
References: <20050106161400.GA25222@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <20050106163333.GK21544@rdlg.net>



If you plug :

 computer <-->  computer, you need a cross over.  

If you go:

 computer <--> switch/hub <--> computer

then you use regular cat5e.



Thus spake Jim Seymour (bluejay at speedfactory.net):

> Hi All,
> 
> I am setting my Linux box up as a router for a dsl connection. At
> present a Windows XP box is all that will be connected to it. I have not
> been able to locate a definite answer as to whether I have to use a
> crossover cable to connect them or if I can use regular CAT 5e. At
> present the windows box says the cable is disconnected (not true). I
> just wanted some feedback before I plopped down the money for a
> crossover. This is my very first venture down the path of networking.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jim Seymour
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

:wq!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert L. Harris                     | GPG Key ID: E344DA3B
                                         @ x-hkp://pgp.mit.edu
DISCLAIMER:
      These are MY OPINIONS             With Dreams To Be A King,
       ALONE.  I speak for              First One Should Be A Man
       no-one else.                       - Manowar

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From coleman at atlanta.nsc.com  Thu Jan  6 11:41:54 2005
From: coleman at atlanta.nsc.com (Christopher Coleman)
Date: Thu Jan  6 11:41:54 2005
Subject: [ale] Crossover cable or CAT 5e question
In-Reply-To: <20050106161400.GA25222@speedfactory.net>
References: <20050106161400.GA25222@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <41DD68EC.1020702@atlanta.nsc.com>

Jim Seymour wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I am setting my Linux box up as a router for a dsl connection. At
> present a Windows XP box is all that will be connected to it. I have not
> been able to locate a definite answer as to whether I have to use a
> crossover cable to connect them or if I can use regular CAT 5e. At
> present the windows box says the cable is disconnected (not true). I
> just wanted some feedback before I plopped down the money for a
> crossover. This is my very first venture down the path of networking.

If your plan is to directly connect the XP system to the router without 
a hub or switch, then you need a crossover cable.

-- 
Chris Coleman
National Semiconductor		Fax:   770-903-1827
500 Pinnacle Court Suite 525   	Phone:770-903-1820
Norcross, GA 30071		email: coleman at atlanta.nsc.com



From james at sumners.ath.cx  Thu Jan  6 11:44:25 2005
From: james at sumners.ath.cx (james at sumners.ath.cx)
Date: Thu Jan  6 11:44:25 2005
Subject: [ale] terminal sharing between users
In-Reply-To: <20050106122212.uansbhxv2qm8w8kw@devsea.com>
References: <20050106122212.uansbhxv2qm8w8kw@devsea.com>
Message-ID: <20050106164048.GG24492@sumners.ath.cx>

You can do that with screen.

On Thu, Jan 06, 2005 at 12:22:12PM -0500, John Wells wrote:
> Anyone know of any vnc-like tool for Unix terminals that allows sharing of one
> terminal between two user ids?
> 
> Sort of desktop sharing without the desktop?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> John

-- 
James Sumners
http://ug.dyndns.org/~jsumners/

"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted."

Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto)
CH:D 59


From vinson.lists at charter.net  Thu Jan  6 12:01:30 2005
From: vinson.lists at charter.net (Jason Vinson)
Date: Thu Jan  6 12:01:30 2005
Subject: [ale] terminal sharing between users
In-Reply-To: <20050106122212.uansbhxv2qm8w8kw@devsea.com>
References: <20050106122212.uansbhxv2qm8w8kw@devsea.com>
Message-ID: <41DD6E03.8000403@charter.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Start the session with screen

# screen bash

then screen -l on the machine to list running sessions by pid (i think
it's pid).  You can then do screen -x "mypid" to share the screen session.

HTH
Jason

John Wells wrote:

| Anyone know of any vnc-like tool for Unix terminals that allows
| sharing of one terminal between two user ids?
|
| Sort of desktop sharing without the desktop?
|
| Thanks!
|
| John _______________________________________________ Ale mailing
| list Ale at ale.org http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
|

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From vinson.lists at charter.net  Thu Jan  6 12:06:48 2005
From: vinson.lists at charter.net (Jason Vinson)
Date: Thu Jan  6 12:06:48 2005
Subject: [ale] terminal sharing between users
In-Reply-To: <41DD6E03.8000403@charter.net>
References: <20050106122212.uansbhxv2qm8w8kw@devsea.com>
	<41DD6E03.8000403@charter.net>
Message-ID: <41DD6F45.8060605@charter.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Sorry... that's screen -ls for listing.

Jason

Jason Vinson wrote:

| Start the session with screen
|
| # screen bash
|
| then screen -l on the machine to list running sessions by pid (i
| think it's pid).  You can then do screen -x "mypid" to share the
| screen session.
|
| HTH Jason
|
| John Wells wrote:
|
| | Anyone know of any vnc-like tool for Unix terminals that allows |
| sharing of one terminal between two user ids? | | Sort of desktop
| sharing without the desktop? | | Thanks! | | John
| _______________________________________________ Ale mailing | list
| Ale at ale.org http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale |
|

_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


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From barry at alltc.com  Thu Jan  6 12:30:23 2005
From: barry at alltc.com (Barry Hawkins)
Date: Thu Jan  6 12:30:23 2005
Subject: [ale] Sun revokes Java license for FreeBSD Foundation
In-Reply-To: <41DD635A.5010701@alltc.com>
References: <41DD635A.5010701@alltc.com>
Message-ID: <41DD74C4.8060100@alltc.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Barry Hawkins wrote:
[...]
| Well, in another brilliant stroke, Sun has revoked the FreeBSD
| foundation's SCSL license to distribute their binaries.
[...]
This is now being downplayed as a logistical faux pas.

- --
Barry Hawkins
All Things Computed
site: www.alltc.com
weblog: www.yepthatsme.com

Registered Linux User #368650
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From stillwaxin at gmail.com  Thu Jan  6 12:50:24 2005
From: stillwaxin at gmail.com (Michael Still)
Date: Thu Jan  6 12:50:24 2005
Subject: [ale] Announce: North East Meeting tonight Jan 6, 2005
Message-ID: <12bbc01c0501060946627238f4@mail.gmail.com>

-- 7:30PM Jan 6, 2005 --

Marc's presentation will overview the Linksys "Linux Gadgets" and their
hacks. The WRT54GS Wireless Broadband Router and the NSLU2 Network Storage
Link.

Bio:
Marc Torres started with Linux in 1992, and has been an active part in
the Linux Community since 1995.

http://www.ale.org/NorthEast/


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Thu Jan  6 12:51:16 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Thu Jan  6 12:51:16 2005
Subject: [ale] lame servers, spam blocking and ale
In-Reply-To: <1105024360.41dd5568f2a2d@smtp2.office.holos.com>
Message-ID: <20050106174708.35827.qmail@web54407.mail.yahoo.com>

Be careful.  that can come from web requests too.

--JMS

--- Frank Glass <glass-keyword-ale.91ffac at holos.com>
wrote:

> After a month of data collection from logs, I came
> to the conclusion that
> all of the "lame server" entries resulting from smtp
> clients sending spam.
> I had the idea that I would save some processing if
> I crafted a script to
> block these people at the firewall for perhaps 24
> hours.
> 
> Then we get this:
> 
> Jan  6 09:33:20 smtp2 named[6146]: lame server
> resolving 'ale.org' (in
> 'ale.org'?): 209.125.90.75#53
> 
> 
> Comments?  
> 
> Frank
> -- 
> Frank Glass
> Holos Software, Inc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------
> Holos Software, Inc. http://holos.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 


From jb at sourceillustrated.com  Thu Jan  6 13:35:08 2005
From: jb at sourceillustrated.com (John Wells)
Date: Thu Jan  6 13:35:08 2005
Subject: [ale] terminal sharing between users
In-Reply-To: <20050106164048.GG24492@sumners.ath.cx>
References: <20050106122212.uansbhxv2qm8w8kw@devsea.com>
	<20050106164048.GG24492@sumners.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <20050106143801.088kngp0fcao00sk@devsea.com>

james at sumners.ath.cx said:

> You can do that with screen.

I believe you can do this only as the same user id.  I'm hoping to find
something that will allow you to share between two user ids...

Thanks,
Johh


From bluejay at speedfactory.net  Thu Jan  6 13:41:24 2005
From: bluejay at speedfactory.net (Jim Seymour)
Date: Thu Jan  6 13:41:24 2005
Subject: [ale] Crossover cable or CAT 5e question
In-Reply-To: <41DD68EC.1020702@atlanta.nsc.com>
References: <20050106161400.GA25222@speedfactory.net>
	<41DD68EC.1020702@atlanta.nsc.com>
Message-ID: <20050106183622.GA26404@speedfactory.net>

On Thu, Jan 06, 2005 at 11:35:56AM -0500, Christopher Coleman wrote:
> Jim Seymour wrote:
> >Hi All,
> >
> >I am setting my Linux box up as a router for a dsl connection. At
> >present a Windows XP box is all that will be connected to it. I have not
> >been able to locate a definite answer as to whether I have to use a
> >crossover cable to connect them or if I can use regular CAT 5e. At
> >present the windows box says the cable is disconnected (not true). I
> >just wanted some feedback before I plopped down the money for a
> >crossover. This is my very first venture down the path of networking.
> 
> If your plan is to directly connect the XP system to the router without 
> a hub or switch, then you need a crossover cable.
>

Thanks Folks,

Just wanted to make sure before wasting $$$. 

OT: I received some cool Linux stuff for Christmas.

A mug from Technology Associates that has on one side "Tired of being
Microsoft's B@#$%" and the company info on the other.

Also a t-shirt with "Total World Domination" on the front and our
favorite penguin on the back.

Later,

Jim Seymour


From greg.freemyer at gmail.com  Thu Jan  6 14:02:32 2005
From: greg.freemyer at gmail.com (Greg Freemyer)
Date: Thu Jan  6 14:02:32 2005
Subject: [ale] Hardware diagnostics
Message-ID: <87f94c3705010610581a7247c9@mail.gmail.com>

I have a machine that is introducing occasional data corruption.

For instance, I just copied 200 GB between two drives (one 3ware
raid0, one 250GB PATA).

I then verified the data was the same using cmp --verbose.

It found 2 one-byte differences, so I'm having 1 byte/100 GB of corruption. 

Assuming 'cmp --verbose' outputs octal, both bytes had a single bit
set in the copy that was not set in the original.

i.e. 20 --> 220   and   0 --> 200

I know I need to run a memchk, but are there any other diagnostics I
could run to try to figure out what hardware is bad?

I'm also wondering if I need to byte the bullet and replace the
motherboard with one that has ECC RAM.

FYI: I'm pretty sure it is not the 3ware card (I've had corruption
when none of the data was on disks controlled by that card.)  I've
also already changed out the ATA controller.

Thanks
Greg
-- 
Greg Freemyer


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Thu Jan  6 14:06:29 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Thu Jan  6 14:06:29 2005
Subject: [ale] Crossover cable or CAT 5e question
In-Reply-To: <20050106161400.GA25222@speedfactory.net>
References: <20050106161400.GA25222@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <41DD8B58.1070107@3times25.net>

Jim Seymour wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I am setting my Linux box up as a router for a dsl connection. At
> present a Windows XP box is all that will be connected to it. I have not
> been able to locate a definite answer as to whether I have to use a
> crossover cable to connect them or if I can use regular CAT 5e. At
> present the windows box says the cable is disconnected (not true). I
> just wanted some feedback before I plopped down the money for a
> crossover. This is my very first venture down the path of networking.

If you're connecting two computers together you need a crossover cable. 
  If you have a spare switch or hub, you can use two straight cables to 
hook the two computers up through that device.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From deepbsd at earthlink.net  Thu Jan  6 14:21:51 2005
From: deepbsd at earthlink.net (David S. Jackson)
Date: Thu Jan  6 14:21:51 2005
Subject: [ale] NW ALE meeting
In-Reply-To: <41DD603A.9000105@3times25.net>
References: <41AB4118.6020106@3times25.net> <200411291817.34568.rb211@tds.net>
	<41ABB834.8090705@3times25.net>
	<1101779081.26918.5.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
	<41ABD28B.4080604@3times25.net>
	<1104792146.727.17.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
	<41DD603A.9000105@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <20050106191810.GA1014@scee.dsj.net>

On Thu, Jan 06, 2005 at 10:58:50AM -0500 Geoffrey The Esoteric <esoteric at 3times25.net> wrote:
> Raylynn Knight wrote:
> 
> >Do we have a topic for January?
> 
> I had a discussion with Dr. Gayler at the last meeting.  He's going to 
> try and get some of the students more involved.  He's suggested two 
> presentations.  One on 'bash' for newbies and another on 'text editors 
> for newbies.' (vi and, well, I guess emacs would be okay.. :) )
> 
> David Jackson did a bash presentation at one time, but I know he's 
> pretty busy of late with a version 2.0 added to the family. :)

Uh, no version 2.0 added here.  I just haven't been too chatty is
all.  So, don't count me out too far.  But if someone else would like
to run with this, I won't feel mistreated or anything.  

Having said that, I always did want another crack at the
presentation, because last time, I really was expecting a lot more
veteran shell scripters and was unprepared to cover as many basics as
we covered that night (I sorta got bogged down).  If I were to try
it again, I think I would pick fewer principles to zero in on, but
they would be important and useful (command substitution, pattern
matching operators, etc).  Maybe we could look at several types and
levels of scripts and have people make improvements, remove errors,
and so on.  (Ie. some scripts would be one or two liners that do every
day things, and some could be 20 or 30 lines.  Everyday problems
like finding spacehogging files, searching and replacing text in
files, renaming a bunch of files or filetypes, and so on.)

Everyone could bring some scripts that they use on a regular basis.
Also, have folks bring along their .bashrc's with their favorite
aliases and functions.  Kind of like a bash flea market on floppy
disks (or ftp or websites?) or something. (Maybe not enough time.)

The hard part about a bash presentation is that there's usually quite
a spread of experience levels.  Finding a way to satisfy everyone at
least a little bit withtout pissing off or nauseating anyone is the
trick.

PS. Since I've dealth with a lot of the spam that comes to my site,
I'm better able to read email now, so hopefully I can keep up better
with discussions here.  :-)

PPS. Another idea I've been itching to talk about is the basics of
photography.  I'm pretty new myself, but I've been reading up on
basics like depth of field, composition, film speed, and feel I have
a basic understanding of what the "point and shoot" settings on
digital and film cameras actually accomplish.  Since most everyone in
the group is pretty geeky, understanding how a camera actually works
(either digital or film) might be of interest.  Also, editing and
organizing your collection could be good topics.

-- 
David S. Jackson                                dsj at dsj.net
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Leibowitz's Rule:
	When hammering a nail, you will never hit your finger
	if you hold the hammer with both hands.


From deepbsd at earthlink.net  Thu Jan  6 14:27:00 2005
From: deepbsd at earthlink.net (David S. Jackson)
Date: Thu Jan  6 14:27:00 2005
Subject: [ale] fetchmail --antispam
In-Reply-To: <01C4F357.438DFE60@joe.local>
References: <01C4F357.438DFE60@joe.local>
Message-ID: <20050106192313.GB1014@scee.dsj.net>

On Wed, Jan 05, 2005 at 06:49:14PM -0500 Joe Steele <joe at madewell.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 04, 2005 11:20 PM, David S. Jackson wrote:
> >  *** snip ***
> >  reading message dsj%dsj.net at pop.dsj.net:28 of 28 (5284 octets)
> >  fetchmail: SMTP error: 451 4.1.8 Domain of sender address
> >  rainer at augsburg.net does not resolve
> >  ..... not flushed
> >
> > Why doesn't fetchmail believe me?  Why doesn't this message get
> > flushed as I asked it to be?  All help welcome.  TIA!
> 
> There's a bug in the current fetchmail (6.2.5) that might be the 
> cause of your problem.  The antispam feature should properly match 
> responses to the "MAIL FROM" SMTP command.  And although it's 
> supposed to also match responses to the "RCPT TO" SMTP command, the 
> bug prevents any matches.

I'm using 6.2.2 on this box.  Does the bug apply to that?  I'm
guessing it has been there a while.

> However, there is a question of whether this bug is the root of your 
> problem.  Your sendmail is complaining about a sender address, and 
> such a complaint would normally be raised in response to a "MAIL 
> FROM" command (where the fetchmail bug doesn't apply).  On the other 
> hand, there is a sendmail config option FEATURE(`delay_checks') 
> which, when combined with the fetchmail bug, WOULD cause your 
> problem.
> 
> You might try the following patch (which fixes the bug) and see if it 
> solves your problem.

Thanks Joe.  I hadn't even begun to think it was a bug in fetchmail.
I actually just figured I was using the argument incorrectly, or that
I should include something else with the 451 error argument.  Anyway,
I'll start digging around the fetchmail site, try upgrading my
fetchmail source with your patch, and tell y'all what happens.
Thanks!

-- 
David S. Jackson                                dsj at dsj.net
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk.
		-- Thomas Edison


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Thu Jan  6 14:38:19 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Thu Jan  6 14:38:19 2005
Subject: [ale] NW ALE meeting
In-Reply-To: <20050106191810.GA1014@scee.dsj.net>
References: <41AB4118.6020106@3times25.net>
	<200411291817.34568.rb211@tds.net>	<41ABB834.8090705@3times25.net>	<1101779081.26918.5.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>	<41ABD28B.4080604@3times25.net>	<1104792146.727.17.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>	<41DD603A.9000105@3times25.net>
	<20050106191810.GA1014@scee.dsj.net>
Message-ID: <41DD92CE.8040505@3times25.net>

David S. Jackson wrote:

> Uh, no version 2.0 added here.  I just haven't been too chatty is
> all.  So, don't count me out too far.  But if someone else would like
> to run with this, I won't feel mistreated or anything.

Where'd I get that bad info?  Sorry about starting the rumor!

> Having said that, I always did want another crack at the
> presentation, because last time, I really was expecting a lot more
> veteran shell scripters and was unprepared to cover as many basics as
> we covered that night (I sorta got bogged down).

I'd be happy to have you present again.

> The hard part about a bash presentation is that there's usually quite
> a spread of experience levels.  Finding a way to satisfy everyone at
> least a little bit withtout pissing off or nauseating anyone is the
> trick.

What I'm hoping for is a presentation geared towards someone who's new 
to Linux/UNIX.  Say a developer who's been writing Java on a Windows 
platform.  I mean a complete shell newbie.

Don't take that to mean you can re-present your presentation that was 
certainly meant for more experienced scripters, but I was trying to 
address some of the requests from KSU.

> PPS. Another idea I've been itching to talk about is the basics of
> photography.  I'm pretty new myself, but I've been reading up on
> basics like depth of field, composition, film speed, and feel I have
> a basic understanding of what the "point and shoot" settings on
> digital and film cameras actually accomplish.  Since most everyone in
> the group is pretty geeky, understanding how a camera actually works
> (either digital or film) might be of interest.  Also, editing and
> organizing your collection could be good topics.

Oooh, put something together and we can have a presentation on that as 
well. :)

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From greg.freemyer at gmail.com  Thu Jan  6 15:04:46 2005
From: greg.freemyer at gmail.com (Greg Freemyer)
Date: Thu Jan  6 15:04:46 2005
Subject: [ale] Badness in out_of_memory/oom_kill.c
In-Reply-To: <41DD5E7E.5000906@tyderia.net>
References: <87f94c37050106074642bf9f5@mail.gmail.com>
	<41DD5E7E.5000906@tyderia.net>
Message-ID: <87f94c370501061201754c808f@mail.gmail.com>

Done,

Thanks


On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 10:51:26 -0500, Mike Murphy <mike at tyderia.net> wrote:
> depending on the distro, its often best to report bugs to the distro,
> and not to the original auther. Suse is one distro that has a mature
> issue reporting process (and even a publicly available bugzilla, if
> memory serves), so reporting this to them is probably the best move.
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> Greg Freemyer wrote:
> > Where should I report this kernel issue?
> >
> > I'm pretty sure there are several mailing-lists associated with the
> > kernel, and I don't know which one would be best for this.  (Or maybe
> > just to SuSE, since it is there 2.6.8 kernel).
> >
> > ===
> > I can repeatedly cause the below in /var/log/warn, and my command
> > reports terminated.
> >
> > Jan  6 10:42:01 tapeserver kernel: Badness in out_of_memory at mm/oom_kill.c:252
> > Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c0139492>] out_of_memory+0x22/0xc0
> > Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c0140f71>] try_to_free_pages+0x181/0x190
> > Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c013a5ff>] __alloc_pages+0x28f/0x3b0
> > Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c013cf7c>]
> > do_page_cache_readahead+0xec/0x130
> > Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c01375af>] filemap_nopage+0x23f/0x310
> > Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c014414e>] do_no_page+0x9e/0x270
> > Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c01444d2>] handle_mm_fault+0xf2/0x120
> > Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c01179d7>] do_page_fault+0x1c7/0x5bf
> > Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c0117810>] do_page_fault+0x0/0x5bf
> > Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c0106d9d>] error_code+0x2d/0x40
> > Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c016129a>] poll_freewait+0x3a/0x50
> > Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c0161ee0>] sys_poll+0x150/0x220
> > Jan  6 10:42:20 tapeserver kernel:  [<c01612b0>] __pollwait+0x0/0xa0
> > Jan  6 10:42:21 tapeserver kernel:  [<c0117810>] do_page_fault+0x0/0x5bf
> > Jan  6 10:42:21 tapeserver kernel:  [<c0106d9d>] error_code+0x2d/0x40
> >
> > I have 256 MB of RAM on an Intel machine, and I am issueing the
> > userspace command dosfsck /dev/hdc1.  hdc1 is a 250 GB FAT32 partition
> > with 200+ GB of data on it.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Greg
> 
> --
> 
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> Mike Murphy
> 781 Inman Mews Drive Atlanta GA 30307
> Landline: 404-653-1070
> Mobile: 404-545-6234
> Email: mike at tyderia.net
> AIM: mmichael453
> JDAM: 33:45:14.0584N  84:21:43.038W
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>


From david.muse at firstworks.com  Thu Jan  6 15:18:56 2005
From: david.muse at firstworks.com (David Muse)
Date: Thu Jan  6 15:18:56 2005
Subject: [ale] New job time
In-Reply-To: <41DD8B58.1070107@3times25.net>
References: <20050106161400.GA25222@speedfactory.net>
	<41DD8B58.1070107@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <20050106151517.5cf522d7@neptune.4accesscommunications.com>

Hello ALE members,

Looks like it may be time for me to start looking for a new job.

Contract or perm, preferably in North Atlanta.

I've been embedded linux and C++ for a few years now.  Before that I did
a bunch of Python and Java.  Before that I did a lot of database design
and coding using Oracle OCI and stored procedures, mostly to integrate
Oracle Financials 11 into existing apps. Before that I wrote lots of
web-based applications in C++.  Before that I did a bunch of FoxPro.

All the while, I've been maintaing a couple of open source projects:
http://www.firstworks.com

I'm good at designing and coding systems and leading teams of
developers.

My resume is available at http://www.firstworks.com/resume.html or
http://www.firstworks.com/resume.doc

Any leads would be very helpful.

Thanks,

David Muse
david.muse at firstworks.com


From dad at datix.2y.net  Thu Jan  6 15:20:17 2005
From: dad at datix.2y.net (David A. De Graaf)
Date: Thu Jan  6 15:20:17 2005
Subject: [ale] ALE NE meeting
In-Reply-To: <12bbc01c050106074213ba35fc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1105018250.5558.212132732@webmail.messagingengine.com>
	<12bbc01c050106074213ba35fc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050106201626.GB22410@datium.datix.lan>

On Thu, Jan 06, 2005 at 10:42:26AM -0500, Michael Still wrote:
> Yes there will be one.  Subject is hacking the Linksys WRTG54gs.  I'm
> trying to wrap up the details right now.

Very interesting.  Now if only there were some info available on
using (not hacking) the Linksys WUSB54GS...
And if only you were closer to me...

That's the matching USB wireless GS adapter that includes the
'SpeedBooster' technology, whatever that is.  Apparently this specific
adapter is needed to wrest all the performance from the WRTG54gs
router/access point.

Unfortunately, I've had no success in making this adapter work with
Linux (specifically Fedora Core 3).
Have any of you done better?

> 
> On Thu, 06 Jan 2005 08:30:50 -0500, Trey Sizemore <trey at fastmail.fm> wrote:
> > Will there be a meeting tonight and what is the subject, if so.
> > --
> >   Trey Sizemore

-- 
	David A. De Graaf    DATIX, Inc.    Hendersonville, NC
	dad at datix.2y.net    (828) 696-8646;  fax (828) 694-1037


From griffisb at bellsouth.net  Thu Jan  6 15:33:56 2005
From: griffisb at bellsouth.net (BruceG)
Date: Thu Jan  6 15:33:56 2005
Subject: [ale] NW ALE meeting
In-Reply-To: <41DD92CE.8040505@3times25.net>
References: <41AB4118.6020106@3times25.net>
	<20050106191810.GA1014@scee.dsj.net>
	<41DD92CE.8040505@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <200501061530.06499.griffisb@bellsouth.net>

On Thursday 06 January 2005 14:34, Geoffrey wrote:
> David S. Jackson wrote:

>
> > PPS. Another idea I've been itching to talk about is the basics of
> > photography.  I'm pretty new myself, but I've been reading up on
> > basics like depth of field, composition, film speed, and feel I have
> > a basic understanding of what the "point and shoot" settings on
> > digital and film cameras actually accomplish.  Since most everyone in
> > the group is pretty geeky, understanding how a camera actually works
> > (either digital or film) might be of interest.  Also, editing and
> > organizing your collection could be good topics.
>
> Oooh, put something together and we can have a presentation on that as
> well. :)

That sounds like a cool idea! My oldest son thankfully dropped my old Vivitar 
1.3 megapixel camera, so I got a Nikon Coolpix 3200 for Christmas. Trying to 
learn a little bit more about digital photography - other than Digikam for 
albums and e-mailing out. 

If anyone (anyone, please?) is more cluefull about The Gimp, I would 
definately go to a presentation. I've done basic cropping and resizing, but 
want to learn more of the in-depth stuff (and how to put a copyright on a 
digital image).
Bruce


From barry at alltc.com  Thu Jan  6 16:18:36 2005
From: barry at alltc.com (Barry Hawkins)
Date: Thu Jan  6 16:18:36 2005
Subject: [ale] ALE NE meeting
In-Reply-To: <20050106201626.GB22410@datium.datix.lan>
References: <1105018250.5558.212132732@webmail.messagingengine.com>	<12bbc01c050106074213ba35fc@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050106201626.GB22410@datium.datix.lan>
Message-ID: <41DDAA3B.5010704@alltc.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

David A. De Graaf wrote:
[...]
| That's the matching USB wireless GS adapter that includes the
| 'SpeedBooster' technology, whatever that is.  Apparently this specific
| adapter is needed to wrest all the performance from the WRTG54gs
| router/access point.
[...]
The blurb at LinkSys[0] touts SpeedBooster as:
'SpeedBooster technology is a compatible add-on to standard Wireless-G,
which increases "real-world" wireless network performance by up to 35%
enhancement to Wireless-G'

So it's not the channel-pairing hack I originally thought it was.

[0] - http://www.linksys.com/splash/wrt54gs_splash.asp

Beats me,
- --
Barry Hawkins
All Things Computed
site: www.alltc.com
weblog: www.yepthatsme.com

Registered Linux User #368650
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Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFB3ao77bZ6kUftWZwRAnBqAKCCi7WxSXJNlUIvYk5k35pCOWsLTACfUi5+
MYXdruZNIkHsDJJ8HP+y3w8=
=A20l
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From joe at madewell.com  Thu Jan  6 17:26:29 2005
From: joe at madewell.com (Joe Steele)
Date: Thu Jan  6 17:26:29 2005
Subject: [ale] fetchmail --antispam
Message-ID: <01C4F414.5786ECC0@joe.local>

On Thursday, January 06, 2005 2:23 PM, David S. Jackson wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 05, 2005 at 06:49:14PM -0500 Joe Steele <joe at madewell.com> wrote:
> > There's a bug in the current fetchmail (6.2.5) that might be the
> > cause of your problem.  The antispam feature should properly match
> > responses to the "MAIL FROM" SMTP command.  And although it's
> > supposed to also match responses to the "RCPT TO" SMTP command, the
> > bug prevents any matches.
>
> I'm using 6.2.2 on this box.  Does the bug apply to that?  I'm
> guessing it has been there a while.
>

Yes, the bug's been there awhile.  In fact, there was a virtually 
identical bug that affected antispam's ability to match responses to 
the "MAIL FROM" command that wasn't fixed until 6.2.4.  So your best 
bet is to get the latest version and then apply the patch.

--Joe


From ups at tree.com  Thu Jan  6 19:51:21 2005
From: ups at tree.com (Stephan Uphoff)
Date: Thu Jan  6 19:51:21 2005
Subject: [ale] LSI Logic (Storage) Norcross
Message-ID: <1105058850.27981.158.camel@palm.tree.com>

Is anyone here working for LSI Logic (Storage) Norcross?
If so - could you contact me off the list?

Thanks
	Stephan


From jkf at wolfnet.org  Thu Jan  6 20:32:33 2005
From: jkf at wolfnet.org (Jason Fritcher)
Date: Thu Jan  6 20:32:33 2005
Subject: [ale] ALE NE meeting
In-Reply-To: <41DDAA3B.5010704@alltc.com>
References: <1105018250.5558.212132732@webmail.messagingengine.com>	<12bbc01c050106074213ba35fc@mail.gmail.com>	<20050106201626.GB22410@datium.datix.lan>
	<41DDAA3B.5010704@alltc.com>
Message-ID: <41DDE5B0.5000804@wolfnet.org>

Barry Hawkins wrote:
> The blurb at LinkSys[0] touts SpeedBooster as:
> 'SpeedBooster technology is a compatible add-on to standard Wireless-G,
> which increases "real-world" wireless network performance by up to 35%
> enhancement to Wireless-G'
>
> So it's not the channel-pairing hack I originally thought it was.

Yep. Its a compression thing, it compresses the data before shipping it over
the air. I'm sure for html and other text or highly compressible material,
it'll be great. But for the things I'm interested, like streaming mpeg and
other video formats, it'll be worthless.

Although, from a hackability standpoint, the gs has more ram, flash, and cpu
power than the plain g has.

--
Jason Fritcher
jkf at wolfnet.org
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From jloden at toughguy.net  Thu Jan  6 21:01:22 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Thu Jan  6 21:01:22 2005
Subject: [ale] launching apps to specific desktops?
Message-ID: <200501062055.23545.jloden@toughguy.net>

I (finally) helped my best friend get off Windows and onto Linux.  He's big 
into having stuff launch at startup on his machine, and I've never done this 
on Linux.  We sorted out how to use the ~/.kde/Autostart folder to launch a 
script that does what he wants, except for one detail.  He would like to 
launch app "foo" onto Desktop 1 and app "bar" onto Desktop 2, for example. 

Does anyone know how (if) this can be accomplished from a script?  Is this 
something that can be set, like DISPLAY ? 

It's a Mandrake 10 system, if that makes any difference (you never know). 

-Jay


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Thu Jan  6 21:15:04 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Thu Jan  6 21:15:04 2005
Subject: [ale] launching apps to specific desktops?
In-Reply-To: <200501062055.23545.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <200501062055.23545.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <41DDEFCA.4000007@3times25.net>

Jay Loden wrote:
> I (finally) helped my best friend get off Windows and onto Linux.  He's big 
> into having stuff launch at startup on his machine, and I've never done this 
> on Linux.  We sorted out how to use the ~/.kde/Autostart folder to launch a 
> script that does what he wants, except for one detail.  He would like to 
> launch app "foo" onto Desktop 1 and app "bar" onto Desktop 2, for example. 
> 
> Does anyone know how (if) this can be accomplished from a script?  Is this 
> something that can be set, like DISPLAY ? 
> 
> It's a Mandrake 10 system, if that makes any difference (you never know). 


Doesn't kde have the ability to save your startup state?  If so, simply 
place your windows where you want them, save the state and you should be 
good.

I don't know about kde, but under enlightenment you can place a window 
on a virtual desktop by simply specifying the proper geometry.  If the 
desktop is to the right of the current, you specify something like:

xterm -geom +1300+10

Assuming your resolution is 1024x768, the xterm will be 276 pixels from 
the left of the second screen.

For regular desktops, the only way I know to do it is to pass a sequence 
to the server so that it switches to the desktop you want the app to run 
on and then start the app.  It's ugly, a lot of popping between 
desktops, but it works on enlightenment.


-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jimmyc at speedfactory.net  Thu Jan  6 21:27:54 2005
From: jimmyc at speedfactory.net (Jim Philips)
Date: Thu Jan  6 21:27:54 2005
Subject: [ale] launching apps to specific desktops?
In-Reply-To: <200501062055.23545.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <200501062055.23545.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <200501062123.50084.jimmyc@speedfactory.net>

On Thursday 06 January 2005 08:55 pm, Jay Loden wrote:
> I (finally) helped my best friend get off Windows and onto Linux.  He's big
> into having stuff launch at startup on his machine, and I've never done
> this on Linux.  We sorted out how to use the ~/.kde/Autostart folder to
> launch a script that does what he wants, except for one detail.  He would
> like to launch app "foo" onto Desktop 1 and app "bar" onto Desktop 2, for
> example.
>
> Does anyone know how (if) this can be accomplished from a script?  Is this
> something that can be set, like DISPLAY ?
>
> It's a Mandrake 10 system, if that makes any difference (you never know).

We just went through this on the KDE mailing list. You don't need the 
Autostart folder or a script. Recent versions of KDE have session management. 
If you open Control Center and go to KDE Components, you will find a page for 
Session Management. There is an option there to restore a manually saved 
session on login. This means that all apps you had open when you last saved 
your session will reappear right where they were the next time you log in. It 
remembers desktop, placement, size, everything.


From rgreen at salug.org  Thu Jan  6 22:32:44 2005
From: rgreen at salug.org (Rick Green)
Date: Thu Jan  6 22:32:44 2005
Subject: [ALE] Alabama LUGFest 2005
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0501062125040.13299-100000@spaceghost>

Hello Atlanta LUG members!

The South Alabama Linux Users Group of Mobile is hosting the 3rd annual
Alabama LUGFest on Feb 19th.  Atlanta is not too far away from Mobile, so
I thought I would extend the invitation to your members.  We have some
great guest speakers coming, including Jon "Maddog" Hall, CEO of Linux
International.  You can check out the details at our (still under
construction) website at www.alabamalugfest.org.  If you have any
questions, please feel free to email this thread or myself directly.  I
hope to see you there!

Rick Green
Public Relations Officer
SALUG, Mobile  


From mpwright at speedfactory.net  Thu Jan  6 22:53:20 2005
From: mpwright at speedfactory.net (Mark Wright)
Date: Thu Jan  6 22:53:20 2005
Subject: [ale] iTunes on Linux
Message-ID: <24368284-605F-11D9-AF5C-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>


Christmas saw the mini iPod count rise around my house.  I am now 
managing three iPods from one Ti Powerbook.  This has caused a few mild 
disasters as I have learned to juggle the songs on a system that was 
only meant to work for one person.  What would really set me free would 
be to put iTunes on my wife's desktop and my daughters laptop. (Sun 
Java Desktop and MDK 9.0)

Are any of my fellow ALE's finding solutions around a similar problem?

This may need a separate thread...

I emailed a guy named Jared at www.zeleksoftware.com and asked him 
about his iTunes replacement program that runs on OSX and Win.  His 
website stated he'd consider a linux port.  Seems he doesn't know a lot 
about Linux but said if we as a list, wanted to show our interest in a 
Linux port of his program called Liberator, he would like to hear from 
us and would seriously consider it.

I did not get into it with him but I imagine there are folks on this 
list capable of porting his software.  Feel free to email him and let 
him know your thoughts.

support at zeleksoftware.com




Mark Wright


From jloden at toughguy.net  Fri Jan  7 00:01:06 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Fri Jan  7 00:01:06 2005
Subject: [ale] iTunes on Linux
In-Reply-To: <24368284-605F-11D9-AF5C-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>
References: <24368284-605F-11D9-AF5C-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <200501062355.02677.jloden@toughguy.net>

I use my iPod 40GB on Linux almost exclusively, as I do not (yet) own a 
PowerBook, and i hate windows. 

I use gtkpod on my IBM thinkpad (debian) and on my Desktop (mandrake 10) 
machine, and it works absolutely fine.  You can't purchase music through it 
like on iTunes, but you can certainly successfully move songs, create 
playlists, etc.  I do it constantly with no problems. 

I'd say give this a go.  Crossover office's latest version will run iTunes on 
Linux, but it's a pain in the butt to set up as far as I can tell - but - if 
you don't mind hackage, you can probably get that working if you need the 
actual iTunes software. 

-Jay


On Thursday 06 January 2005 10:49, Mark Wright wrote:
> Christmas saw the mini iPod count rise around my house.  I am now
> managing three iPods from one Ti Powerbook.  This has caused a few mild
> disasters as I have learned to juggle the songs on a system that was
> only meant to work for one person.  What would really set me free would
> be to put iTunes on my wife's desktop and my daughters laptop. (Sun
> Java Desktop and MDK 9.0)
>
> Are any of my fellow ALE's finding solutions around a similar problem?
>
> This may need a separate thread...
>
> I emailed a guy named Jared at www.zeleksoftware.com and asked him
> about his iTunes replacement program that runs on OSX and Win.  His
> website stated he'd consider a linux port.  Seems he doesn't know a lot
> about Linux but said if we as a list, wanted to show our interest in a
> Linux port of his program called Liberator, he would like to hear from
> us and would seriously consider it.
>
> I did not get into it with him but I imagine there are folks on this
> list capable of porting his software.  Feel free to email him and let
> him know your thoughts.
>
> support at zeleksoftware.com
>
>
>
>
> Mark Wright
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From bkruger at mindspring.com  Fri Jan  7 00:27:12 2005
From: bkruger at mindspring.com (Bob Kruger)
Date: Fri Jan  7 00:27:12 2005
Subject: [ale] OT - Linux Based Web Hosting Services
Message-ID: <41DE1B29.6090204@mindspring.com>

Folks;

This is a bit OT, but looking for a new web hosting service.

First, some background.  Client has Linuxbased software that 
occasionally needs intervention with SSH to maintain and to harvest 
data.  Went to Canaca.com, and found that they offered SSH access.  He 
orders the following plan:

Storage - 30GB
Bandwidth - 600GB
php
cgi-bin
perl
MySQL/Apache/etc...

Price $16.95/month if paid for two years.

Orders the service.  Goes to use ssh, finds no ssh access.  Emails 
Canaca asking why, and gets back an answer that defies all logic:

>All SSH connections on our network are controlled by an access control list;
>we do not under any circumstances grant access on a wildcard basis; if you
>require SSH access it an nonnegotiable requirement that you provide the
>public ip address from where you would be connecting; you have the option of
>notifying us in future if there are any changes in the access IP/s ( with
>confirmation by the last 4 digits of your credit card number )
>

Now, here we live in the age of being able to connect from many various 
locations (requirement) and DHCP servers, and these folks are asking for 
what IP address you will be accessing from.

I try not to be too judgemental, but this has to be one of the most 
ridiculous positions made by a web service provider that I have seen in 
a long time.

OK, now the question.  Anyone know of a web hosting company offering 
similar capabilities at a similar price, and will allow SSH access from 
anywhere?

V/r

Bob




From scherrey at proteus-tech.com  Fri Jan  7 01:27:05 2005
From: scherrey at proteus-tech.com (Benjamin Scherrey)
Date: Fri Jan  7 01:27:05 2005
Subject: [ale] OT - Linux Based Web Hosting Services
In-Reply-To: <41DE1B29.6090204@mindspring.com>
References: <41DE1B29.6090204@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <41DE243C.3040409@proteus-tech.com>

Kinda screwy but I guess they're scared of having multiple shell users 
on their system. I wouldn't find those restrictions acceptable either. 
FWIW - I use rosehosting.com which provides complete virtual linux 
computers starting at $30/month. I've been with them for a few years and 
rarely experience an outage. I think all the stuff you're looking for is 
installed and ready to go but, if not, you can install it yourself.

    Good luck,

       Ben Scherrey

Bob Kruger wrote:

> Folks;
>
> This is a bit OT, but looking for a new web hosting service.
>
> First, some background.  Client has Linuxbased software that 
> occasionally needs intervention with SSH to maintain and to harvest 
> data.  Went to Canaca.com, and found that they offered SSH access.  He 
> orders the following plan:
>
> Storage - 30GB
> Bandwidth - 600GB
> php
> cgi-bin
> perl
> MySQL/Apache/etc...
>
> Price $16.95/month if paid for two years.



From jloden at toughguy.net  Fri Jan  7 01:37:30 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Fri Jan  7 01:37:30 2005
Subject: [ale] OT - Linux Based Web Hosting Services
In-Reply-To: <41DE1B29.6090204@mindspring.com>
References: <41DE1B29.6090204@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <200501070100.17641.jloden@toughguy.net>

HAH!  not for 16.95 a month.  The place I use is 15 a month, and I get full 
ssh access, but it's 3GB storage and 50GB bandwidth...I guess there had to be 
a catch if they were gonna offer all that at 16.95/month.  I wont even go 
into how dumb that whole exchange was about ssh.

-Jay

On Friday 07 January 2005 12:16, Bob Kruger wrote:
> Folks;
>
> This is a bit OT, but looking for a new web hosting service.
>
> First, some background.  Client has Linuxbased software that
> occasionally needs intervention with SSH to maintain and to harvest
> data.  Went to Canaca.com, and found that they offered SSH access.  He
> orders the following plan:
>
> Storage - 30GB
> Bandwidth - 600GB
> php
> cgi-bin
> perl
> MySQL/Apache/etc...
>
> Price $16.95/month if paid for two years.
>
> Orders the service.  Goes to use ssh, finds no ssh access.  Emails
>
> Canaca asking why, and gets back an answer that defies all logic:
> >All SSH connections on our network are controlled by an access control
> > list; we do not under any circumstances grant access on a wildcard basis;
> > if you require SSH access it an nonnegotiable requirement that you
> > provide the public ip address from where you would be connecting; you
> > have the option of notifying us in future if there are any changes in the
> > access IP/s ( with confirmation by the last 4 digits of your credit card
> > number )
>
> Now, here we live in the age of being able to connect from many various
> locations (requirement) and DHCP servers, and these folks are asking for
> what IP address you will be accessing from.
>
> I try not to be too judgemental, but this has to be one of the most
> ridiculous positions made by a web service provider that I have seen in
> a long time.
>
> OK, now the question.  Anyone know of a web hosting company offering
> similar capabilities at a similar price, and will allow SSH access from
> anywhere?
>
> V/r
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Fri Jan  7 06:39:30 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Fri Jan  7 06:39:30 2005
Subject: [ale] OT - Linux Based Web Hosting Services
In-Reply-To: <41DE1B29.6090204@mindspring.com>
References: <41DE1B29.6090204@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <1105097676.3333.11.camel@blue>

On Fri, 2005-01-07 at 00:16 -0500, Bob Kruger wrote:
> Now, here we live in the age of being able to connect from many various 
> locations (requirement) and DHCP servers, and these folks are asking for 
> what IP address you will be accessing from.

So... go get a sf.net account and give the hosting company the IP addrs
of shell.sf.net and shell1.sf.net.  Then all you do is ssh into
shell.sf.net and then jump over to your Canaca.com.   This is probably
not the most secure method (ssh on sf.net was hacked a few years back),
but it is doable.  

Alternatively setup stunnel somewhere and relay off of that box.

-Jim P.





From vaidhy at loonys.net  Fri Jan  7 08:04:44 2005
From: vaidhy at loonys.net (Vaidhyanathan Mayilrangam Gopalan)
Date: Fri Jan  7 08:04:44 2005
Subject: [ale] OT - Linux Based Web Hosting Services
In-Reply-To: <41DE1B29.6090204@mindspring.com>
References: <41DE1B29.6090204@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <1105102847.10126.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>

I have been using phpwebhosting.com for close to two years now with no
problems..
While they claim that bandwidth and storage are unlimited, they allocate
you 500 MB at first and you need to ask for more.

Similarly, you ask for SSH and they open it up for you.. Talk to them
and see if it suits you..

Price is $9.95/mo

Regards,
Vaidhy


On Fri, 2005-01-07 at 00:16 -0500, Bob Kruger wrote:
> Folks;
> 
> This is a bit OT, but looking for a new web hosting service.
> 
> First, some background.  Client has Linuxbased software that 
> occasionally needs intervention with SSH to maintain and to harvest 
> data.  Went to Canaca.com, and found that they offered SSH access.  He 
> orders the following plan:
> 
> Storage - 30GB
> Bandwidth - 600GB
> php
> cgi-bin
> perl
> MySQL/Apache/etc...
> 
> Price $16.95/month if paid for two years.
> 
> Orders the service.  Goes to use ssh, finds no ssh access.  Emails 
> Canaca asking why, and gets back an answer that defies all logic:
> 
> >All SSH connections on our network are controlled by an access control list;
> >we do not under any circumstances grant access on a wildcard basis; if you
> >require SSH access it an nonnegotiable requirement that you provide the
> >public ip address from where you would be connecting; you have the option of
> >notifying us in future if there are any changes in the access IP/s ( with
> >confirmation by the last 4 digits of your credit card number )
> >
> 
> Now, here we live in the age of being able to connect from many various 
> locations (requirement) and DHCP servers, and these folks are asking for 
> what IP address you will be accessing from.
> 
> I try not to be too judgemental, but this has to be one of the most 
> ridiculous positions made by a web service provider that I have seen in 
> a long time.
> 
> OK, now the question.  Anyone know of a web hosting company offering 
> similar capabilities at a similar price, and will allow SSH access from 
> anywhere?
> 
> V/r
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
-- 
Vaidhyanathan Mayilrangam Gopalan <vaidhy at loonys.net>


From mcangeli at bellsouth.net  Fri Jan  7 08:27:15 2005
From: mcangeli at bellsouth.net (Mark Angeli)
Date: Fri Jan  7 08:27:15 2005
Subject: [ale] OT - Linux Based Web Hosting Services
In-Reply-To: <1105102847.10126.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <41DE1B29.6090204@mindspring.com>
	<1105102847.10126.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <41DE8BB5.7060902@bellsouth.net>

http://datacities.com <-- I host tinyminds.org and linuxfoo.org among 
some other sites there....

http://national-net.com <-- Mostly Managed hosting, so they tend to be a 
little more pricey.

mark


Vaidhyanathan Mayilrangam Gopalan wrote:

>I have been using phpwebhosting.com for close to two years now with no
>problems..
>While they claim that bandwidth and storage are unlimited, they allocate
>you 500 MB at first and you need to ask for more.
>
>Similarly, you ask for SSH and they open it up for you.. Talk to them
>and see if it suits you..
>
>Price is $9.95/mo
>
>Regards,
>Vaidhy
>
>
>On Fri, 2005-01-07 at 00:16 -0500, Bob Kruger wrote:
>  
>
>>Folks;
>>
>>This is a bit OT, but looking for a new web hosting service.
>>
>>First, some background.  Client has Linuxbased software that 
>>occasionally needs intervention with SSH to maintain and to harvest 
>>data.  Went to Canaca.com, and found that they offered SSH access.  He 
>>orders the following plan:
>>
>>Storage - 30GB
>>Bandwidth - 600GB
>>php
>>cgi-bin
>>perl
>>MySQL/Apache/etc...
>>
>>Price $16.95/month if paid for two years.
>>
>>Orders the service.  Goes to use ssh, finds no ssh access.  Emails 
>>Canaca asking why, and gets back an answer that defies all logic:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>All SSH connections on our network are controlled by an access control list;
>>>we do not under any circumstances grant access on a wildcard basis; if you
>>>require SSH access it an nonnegotiable requirement that you provide the
>>>public ip address from where you would be connecting; you have the option of
>>>notifying us in future if there are any changes in the access IP/s ( with
>>>confirmation by the last 4 digits of your credit card number )
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>Now, here we live in the age of being able to connect from many various 
>>locations (requirement) and DHCP servers, and these folks are asking for 
>>what IP address you will be accessing from.
>>
>>I try not to be too judgemental, but this has to be one of the most 
>>ridiculous positions made by a web service provider that I have seen in 
>>a long time.
>>
>>OK, now the question.  Anyone know of a web hosting company offering 
>>similar capabilities at a similar price, and will allow SSH access from 
>>anywhere?
>>
>>V/r
>>
>>Bob
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Ale mailing list
>>Ale at ale.org
>>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>
>>    
>>


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Fri Jan  7 08:56:07 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Fri Jan  7 08:56:07 2005
Subject: [ale] iTunes on Linux
In-Reply-To: <24368284-605F-11D9-AF5C-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>
References: <24368284-605F-11D9-AF5C-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <41DE9415.6090606@3times25.net>

Mark Wright wrote:
> 
> Christmas saw the mini iPod count rise around my house.  I am now 
> managing three iPods from one Ti Powerbook.  This has caused a few mild 
> disasters as I have learned to juggle the songs on a system that was 
> only meant to work for one person.  What would really set me free would 
> be to put iTunes on my wife's desktop and my daughters laptop. (Sun Java 
> Desktop and MDK 9.0)
> 
> Are any of my fellow ALE's finding solutions around a similar problem?

There's been a couple of threads on the crossover list regarding these 
toys, but I've not followed them, you might check the archives.

> This may need a separate thread...
> 
> I emailed a guy named Jared at www.zeleksoftware.com and asked him about 
> his iTunes replacement program that runs on OSX and Win.  His website 
> stated he'd consider a linux port.  Seems he doesn't know a lot about 
> Linux but said if we as a list, wanted to show our interest in a Linux 
> port of his program called Liberator, he would like to hear from us and 
> would seriously consider it.

I'd be willing to take a look at his code to assess the portability, 
although I'm very limited on time right now.  Do you know what it's 
written in?

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Fri Jan  7 08:58:30 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Fri Jan  7 08:58:30 2005
Subject: [ale] OT - Linux Based Web Hosting Services
In-Reply-To: <41DE1B29.6090204@mindspring.com>
References: <41DE1B29.6090204@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <41DE94A4.50906@3times25.net>

Bob Kruger wrote:
> Folks;
> 
> This is a bit OT, but looking for a new web hosting service.
> 
> First, some background.  Client has Linuxbased software that 
> occasionally needs intervention with SSH to maintain and to harvest 
> data.  Went to Canaca.com, and found that they offered SSH access.  He 
> orders the following plan:
> 
> Storage - 30GB
> Bandwidth - 600GB
> php
> cgi-bin
> perl
> MySQL/Apache/etc...

Both Speedfactory and 1and1 provide such services, you might check them 
out.  Speedfactory might be a better solution since they are local (if 
you are, you never know anymore on this list. :) )

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From mpwright at speedfactory.net  Fri Jan  7 09:01:19 2005
From: mpwright at speedfactory.net (Mark Wright)
Date: Fri Jan  7 09:01:19 2005
Subject: [ale] iTunes on Linux
In-Reply-To: <200501062355.02677.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <24368284-605F-11D9-AF5C-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>
	<200501062355.02677.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <0ADE1D69-60B4-11D9-AF5C-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>

I'll try that.

I don't really like the idea of crossover office emulating a windows 
environment for a windows app so I haven't tried that yet.

I found the Liberator program when I was looking for a way to help 
manage all the music we have.  Itunes is setup to handle everything 
automatically and manually setting things is not obvious.

MW
On Jan 6, 2005, at 11:55 PM, Jay Loden wrote:

> I use my iPod 40GB on Linux almost exclusively, as I do not (yet) own a
> PowerBook, and i hate windows.
>
> I use gtkpod on my IBM thinkpad (debian) and on my Desktop (mandrake 
> 10)
> machine, and it works absolutely fine.  You can't purchase music 
> through it
> like on iTunes, but you can certainly successfully move songs, create
> playlists, etc.  I do it constantly with no problems.
>
> I'd say give this a go.  Crossover office's latest version will run 
> iTunes on
> Linux, but it's a pain in the butt to set up as far as I can tell - 
> but - if
> you don't mind hackage, you can probably get that working if you need 
> the
> actual iTunes software.
>
> -Jay
>
>
> On Thursday 06 January 2005 10:49, Mark Wright wrote:
>> Christmas saw the mini iPod count rise around my house.  I am now
>> managing three iPods from one Ti Powerbook.  This has caused a few 
>> mild
>> disasters as I have learned to juggle the songs on a system that was
>> only meant to work for one person.  What would really set me free 
>> would
>> be to put iTunes on my wife's desktop and my daughters laptop. (Sun
>> Java Desktop and MDK 9.0)
>>
>> Are any of my fellow ALE's finding solutions around a similar problem?
>>
>> This may need a separate thread...
>>
>> I emailed a guy named Jared at www.zeleksoftware.com and asked him
>> about his iTunes replacement program that runs on OSX and Win.  His
>> website stated he'd consider a linux port.  Seems he doesn't know a 
>> lot
>> about Linux but said if we as a list, wanted to show our interest in a
>> Linux port of his program called Liberator, he would like to hear from
>> us and would seriously consider it.
>>
>> I did not get into it with him but I imagine there are folks on this
>> list capable of porting his software.  Feel free to email him and let
>> him know your thoughts.
>>
>> support at zeleksoftware.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark Wright
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ale mailing list
>> Ale at ale.org
>> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>


From mpwright at speedfactory.net  Fri Jan  7 09:07:58 2005
From: mpwright at speedfactory.net (Mark Wright)
Date: Fri Jan  7 09:07:58 2005
Subject: [ale] iTunes on Linux
In-Reply-To: <41DE9415.6090606@3times25.net>
References: <24368284-605F-11D9-AF5C-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>
	<41DE9415.6090606@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <FAEB5C2A-60B4-11D9-AF5C-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>

Hi Geoffrey,

I don't know what it is written in.  It runs on OSX and Windows.  I 
think he charges $15.  The fellow I emailed, Jared, the owner I 
presume, responded quickly to my emails and was interested in learning 
more about a possible Linux market.  You can contact him if you wish at 
support at zeleksoftware.com.  I am sure he would be glad to get feedback 
and answer questions.

Mark
On Jan 7, 2005, at 8:52 AM, Geoffrey wrote:

> Mark Wright wrote:
>> Christmas saw the mini iPod count rise around my house.  I am now 
>> managing three iPods from one Ti Powerbook.  This has caused a few 
>> mild disasters as I have learned to juggle the songs on a system that 
>> was only meant to work for one person.  What would really set me free 
>> would be to put iTunes on my wife's desktop and my daughters laptop. 
>> (Sun Java Desktop and MDK 9.0)
>> Are any of my fellow ALE's finding solutions around a similar problem?
>
> There's been a couple of threads on the crossover list regarding these 
> toys, but I've not followed them, you might check the archives.
>
>> This may need a separate thread...
>> I emailed a guy named Jared at www.zeleksoftware.com and asked him 
>> about his iTunes replacement program that runs on OSX and Win.  His 
>> website stated he'd consider a linux port.  Seems he doesn't know a 
>> lot about Linux but said if we as a list, wanted to show our interest 
>> in a Linux port of his program called Liberator, he would like to 
>> hear from us and would seriously consider it.
>
> I'd be willing to take a look at his code to assess the portability, 
> although I'm very limited on time right now.  Do you know what it's 
> written in?
>
> -- 
> Until later, Geoffrey
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Fri Jan  7 09:20:25 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Fri Jan  7 09:20:25 2005
Subject: [ale] iTunes on Linux
In-Reply-To: <0ADE1D69-60B4-11D9-AF5C-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <20050107141643.47115.qmail@web54410.mail.yahoo.com>

Crossover wasn't bad at all.

It *was* kinda creepy seeing that IE logo on my redhat
desktop, though.  


--J



--- Mark Wright <mpwright at speedfactory.net> wrote:

> I'll try that.
> 
> I don't really like the idea of crossover office
> emulating a windows 
> environment for a windows app so I haven't tried
> that yet.
> 
> I found the Liberator program when I was looking for
> a way to help 
> manage all the music we have.  Itunes is setup to
> handle everything 
> automatically and manually setting things is not
> obvious.
> 
> MW
> On Jan 6, 2005, at 11:55 PM, Jay Loden wrote:
> 
> > I use my iPod 40GB on Linux almost exclusively, as
> I do not (yet) own a
> > PowerBook, and i hate windows.
> >
> > I use gtkpod on my IBM thinkpad (debian) and on my
> Desktop (mandrake 
> > 10)
> > machine, and it works absolutely fine.  You can't
> purchase music 
> > through it
> > like on iTunes, but you can certainly successfully
> move songs, create
> > playlists, etc.  I do it constantly with no
> problems.
> >
> > I'd say give this a go.  Crossover office's latest
> version will run 
> > iTunes on
> > Linux, but it's a pain in the butt to set up as
> far as I can tell - 
> > but - if
> > you don't mind hackage, you can probably get that
> working if you need 
> > the
> > actual iTunes software.
> >
> > -Jay
> >
> >
> > On Thursday 06 January 2005 10:49, Mark Wright
> wrote:
> >> Christmas saw the mini iPod count rise around my
> house.  I am now
> >> managing three iPods from one Ti Powerbook.  This
> has caused a few 
> >> mild
> >> disasters as I have learned to juggle the songs
> on a system that was
> >> only meant to work for one person.  What would
> really set me free 
> >> would
> >> be to put iTunes on my wife's desktop and my
> daughters laptop. (Sun
> >> Java Desktop and MDK 9.0)
> >>
> >> Are any of my fellow ALE's finding solutions
> around a similar problem?
> >>
> >> This may need a separate thread...
> >>
> >> I emailed a guy named Jared at
> www.zeleksoftware.com and asked him
> >> about his iTunes replacement program that runs on
> OSX and Win.  His
> >> website stated he'd consider a linux port.  Seems
> he doesn't know a 
> >> lot
> >> about Linux but said if we as a list, wanted to
> show our interest in a
> >> Linux port of his program called Liberator, he
> would like to hear from
> >> us and would seriously consider it.
> >>
> >> I did not get into it with him but I imagine
> there are folks on this
> >> list capable of porting his software.  Feel free
> to email him and let
> >> him know your thoughts.
> >>
> >> support at zeleksoftware.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Mark Wright
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Ale mailing list
> >> Ale at ale.org
> >> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 


From ALE at MaestroIT.com  Fri Jan  7 09:48:28 2005
From: ALE at MaestroIT.com (Alan Dobkin)
Date: Fri Jan  7 09:48:28 2005
Subject: [ale] OT - Linux Based Web Hosting Services
In-Reply-To: <41DE1B29.6090204@mindspring.com>
References: <41DE1B29.6090204@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <41DE9FDD.2000203@MaestroIT.com>

On 1/7/2005 12:16 AM, Bob Kruger wrote:

> Storage - 30GB
> Bandwidth - 600GB
>
> Price $16.95/month if paid for two years.

This plan is completely insane.  There is no way any reliable web 
hosting company can afford to offer this if their clients actually use 
the allotted storage and/or bandwidth.  Keep in mind that 600 GB of 
bandwidth basically equates to giving you a full *dedicated* 2 MB pipe 
and saturating it for an entire month!  This is like having more than 
your own full T1 in a data center environment, which normally costs over 
20 times what they are charging.  And 30 GB is a big chunk of space on a 
server, assuming it is in some type of RAID and backed up on a regular 
basis.

The only thing I can imagine is that they are counting on the majority 
of their customers paying for this service and then only using a tiny 
portion of it.  They may also be using cheap/unreliable hard drives and 
may not be doing regular backups.  If a significant percentage of their 
customers actually *use* the space/bandwidth allocated in that plan, I 
expect it would quickly put them out of business, assuming they are 
actually able to deliver it in the first place.

Do you really need that much storage space and/or bandwidth from your 
hosting provider?

Alan


From ALE at MaestroIT.com  Fri Jan  7 09:59:29 2005
From: ALE at MaestroIT.com (Alan Dobkin)
Date: Fri Jan  7 09:59:29 2005
Subject: [ale] OT - Linux Based Web Hosting Services
In-Reply-To: <41DE94A4.50906@3times25.net>
References: <41DE1B29.6090204@mindspring.com> <41DE94A4.50906@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <41DEA25D.4090807@MaestroIT.com>

On 1/7/2005 8:54 AM, Geoffrey wrote:

> Bob Kruger wrote:
>
>> Storage - 30GB
>> Bandwidth - 600GB
>
>
> Both Speedfactory and 1and1 provide such services, you might check 
> them out.  Speedfactory might be a better solution since they are 
> local (if you are, you never know anymore on this list. :) )


Yes, but neither of them even come close to making the ridiculous claims 
for storage space or bandwidth that Bob selected from Canaca.com.

There are many decent web hosting providers, including those local in 
Atlanta, that offer more reasonable plans at fair prices.  But if Bob's 
client really needs that much storage space or bandwidth and expects 
reliability, then I think the monthly cost will rise considerably for 
service from a reputable provider.

Alan


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Fri Jan  7 10:02:42 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Fri Jan  7 10:02:42 2005
Subject: [ale] OT - Linux Based Web Hosting Services
In-Reply-To: <41DEA25D.4090807@MaestroIT.com>
References: <41DE1B29.6090204@mindspring.com> <41DE94A4.50906@3times25.net>
	<41DEA25D.4090807@MaestroIT.com>
Message-ID: <41DEA3B0.6040407@3times25.net>

Alan Dobkin wrote:
> On 1/7/2005 8:54 AM, Geoffrey wrote:
> 
>> Bob Kruger wrote:
>>
>>> Storage - 30GB
>>> Bandwidth - 600GB
>>
>>
>>
>> Both Speedfactory and 1and1 provide such services, you might check 
>> them out.  Speedfactory might be a better solution since they are 
>> local (if you are, you never know anymore on this list. :) )
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, but neither of them even come close to making the ridiculous claims 
> for storage space or bandwidth that Bob selected from Canaca.com.
> 
> There are many decent web hosting providers, including those local in 
> Atlanta, that offer more reasonable plans at fair prices.  But if Bob's 
> client really needs that much storage space or bandwidth and expects 
> reliability, then I think the monthly cost will rise considerably for 
> service from a reputable provider.

Agreed.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From pras at cycloeastern.com  Fri Jan  7 10:17:14 2005
From: pras at cycloeastern.com (pras at cycloeastern.com)
Date: Fri Jan  7 10:17:14 2005
Subject: [ale] Badness in out_of_memory/oom_kill.c
In-Reply-To: <87f94c37050106074642bf9f5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <87f94c37050106074642bf9f5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050107155253.GA30824@cycloeastern.com>

I think the problem is occuring in Rik's OOM process killer.

What is the output of 

vmstat -a
swapon -?(I dont remember, but its a flag that shows swap utilization )
cat /proc/meminfo

These might provide a clue.

-Prasanna



On Thu, Jan 06, 2005 at 10:46:32AM -0500, Greg Freemyer wrote:
> Where should I report this kernel issue?
> 
> I'm pretty sure there are several mailing-lists associated with the
> kernel, and I don't know which one would be best for this.  (Or maybe
> just to SuSE, since it is there 2.6.8 kernel).
> 
> ===
> I can repeatedly cause the below in /var/log/warn, and my command
> reports terminated.
> 
> Jan  6 10:42:01 tapeserver kernel: Badness in out_of_memory at mm/oom_kill.c:252
> Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c0139492>] out_of_memory+0x22/0xc0
> Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c0140f71>] try_to_free_pages+0x181/0x190
> Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c013a5ff>] __alloc_pages+0x28f/0x3b0
> Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c013cf7c>]
> do_page_cache_readahead+0xec/0x130
> Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c01375af>] filemap_nopage+0x23f/0x310
> Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c014414e>] do_no_page+0x9e/0x270
> Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c01444d2>] handle_mm_fault+0xf2/0x120
> Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c01179d7>] do_page_fault+0x1c7/0x5bf
> Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c0117810>] do_page_fault+0x0/0x5bf
> Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c0106d9d>] error_code+0x2d/0x40
> Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c016129a>] poll_freewait+0x3a/0x50
> Jan  6 10:42:12 tapeserver kernel:  [<c0161ee0>] sys_poll+0x150/0x220
> Jan  6 10:42:20 tapeserver kernel:  [<c01612b0>] __pollwait+0x0/0xa0
> Jan  6 10:42:21 tapeserver kernel:  [<c0117810>] do_page_fault+0x0/0x5bf
> Jan  6 10:42:21 tapeserver kernel:  [<c0106d9d>] error_code+0x2d/0x40
> 
> I have 256 MB of RAM on an Intel machine, and I am issueing the
> userspace command dosfsck /dev/hdc1.  hdc1 is a 250 GB FAT32 partition
> with 200+ GB of data on it.
> 
> Thanks
> Greg
> -- 
> Greg Freemyer
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From jcole at filink.com  Fri Jan  7 10:45:42 2005
From: jcole at filink.com (John Cole)
Date: Fri Jan  7 10:45:42 2005
Subject: [ale] Question concerning Linux and bridging nics.
Message-ID: <001601c4f4cf$6a31e940$1300a8c0@sz1.filink.com>

Howdy all!

I'm trying to figure out some stuff here.  I have a device that basically
binds 2 nics together to monitor.  I have a 3rd nic that has an ip that I
can access.  The 2 nics bound together don't have IP's.   Is it possible to
bind 1 of those 2 nics and the 3rd nic together and still leave the original
2 bound as well?  I'm sorry if this is confusing but this is the best way I
can explain it at the moment.

Thanks,
John Cole, TICSA
FiLink



From mhirsch at nubridges.com  Fri Jan  7 11:25:26 2005
From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael Hirsch)
Date: Fri Jan  7 11:25:26 2005
Subject: [ale] Speaker needed for Thursday's ALE Central meeting
Message-ID: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF38942F@germanium.numethods.com>

Continuing our run of bad luck with the ALE Central meetings, our
speaker for next week (Charles Shapiro) is sick and doesn't think he'll
be able to give the quality talk he was planning on.  Accordingly, we
need a volunteer or volunteers for next week.

 

Do you have a project you are involved in?  Something that you like to
use, but doesn't seem to be as popular as it should be?  Have you done
an install lately from a new distribution you'd like to talk about?

 

Other ideas: 

-          compare apt, urpmi, yast, and yum.  This could be 4 people,
or 1 person.

-          Linux on other hardware (Mac, PPC, handhelds, mainframes,
routers)

-          Any of the great ideas on
http://tomshiro.org/cgi-bin/twiki/view/ALE/TopicsForTalks

 

Thanks,

 

Michael

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From kwc at theworld.com  Fri Jan  7 11:54:06 2005
From: kwc at theworld.com (Kenneth W Cochran)
Date: Fri Jan  7 11:54:06 2005
Subject: [ale] pop3 retrieving single complete message
Message-ID: <200501071647.LAA5988523@shell.TheWorld.com>

What would be a good way ("manual/interactive" or with some pgm/script)
to retrieve a complete-with-headers-and-html-crap message from
a pop3 server?

I used to use a little Perl thing called "poppy" but that isn't working
here somehow.

Other suggestions/alternatives?

Thanks,

-kc


From greg.freemyer at gmail.com  Fri Jan  7 11:59:08 2005
From: greg.freemyer at gmail.com (Greg Freemyer)
Date: Fri Jan  7 11:59:08 2005
Subject: [ale] Re: Hardware diagnostics
In-Reply-To: <87f94c3705010610581a7247c9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <87f94c3705010610581a7247c9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87f94c3705010708543af2ca12@mail.gmail.com>

memtest did show that one bit was occasionally being set high when it
should not be.

Unfortunately, swapping out ram did not help the problem.

I've decided to replace the motherboard/cpu (an older P3/700) with newer stuff.

Greg


On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 13:58:49 -0500, Greg Freemyer
<greg.freemyer at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have a machine that is introducing occasional data corruption.
> 
> For instance, I just copied 200 GB between two drives (one 3ware
> raid0, one 250GB PATA).
> 
> I then verified the data was the same using cmp --verbose.
> 
> It found 2 one-byte differences, so I'm having 1 byte/100 GB of corruption.
> 
> Assuming 'cmp --verbose' outputs octal, both bytes had a single bit
> set in the copy that was not set in the original.
> 
> i.e. 20 --> 220   and   0 --> 200
> 
> I know I need to run a memchk, but are there any other diagnostics I
> could run to try to figure out what hardware is bad?
> 
> I'm also wondering if I need to byte the bullet and replace the
> motherboard with one that has ECC RAM.
> 
> FYI: I'm pretty sure it is not the 3ware card (I've had corruption
> when none of the data was on disks controlled by that card.)  I've
> also already changed out the ATA controller.
> 
> Thanks
> Greg
> --
> Greg Freemyer
>


From mhirsch at nubridges.com  Fri Jan  7 11:59:49 2005
From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael Hirsch)
Date: Fri Jan  7 11:59:49 2005
Subject: [ale] pop3 retrieving single complete message
Message-ID: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF02591FC7@germanium.numethods.com>

Isn't that what fetchmail does?  Or any mail reader will do it, too.

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
Kenneth W Cochran
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 11:47 AM
To: ale at ale.org
Subject: [ale] pop3 retrieving single complete message

What would be a good way ("manual/interactive" or with some pgm/script)
to retrieve a complete-with-headers-and-html-crap message from
a pop3 server?

I used to use a little Perl thing called "poppy" but that isn't working
here somehow.

Other suggestions/alternatives?

Thanks,

-kc
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale



From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Fri Jan  7 12:01:09 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Fri Jan  7 12:01:09 2005
Subject: [ale] Speaker needed for Thursday's ALE Central meeting
In-Reply-To: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF38942F@germanium.numethods.com>
References: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF38942F@germanium.numethods.com>
Message-ID: <1105117034.4690.29.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>

On Fri, 2005-01-07 at 11:21, Michael Hirsch wrote:
> Continuing our run of bad luck with the ALE Central meetings, our
> speaker for next week (Charles Shapiro) is sick and doesn?t think
> he?ll be able to give the quality talk he was planning on. 
> Accordingly, we need a volunteer or volunteers for next week.
> 
>  
> 
> Do you have a project you are involved in?  Something that you like to
> use, but doesn?t seem to be as popular as it should be?  Have you done
> an install lately from a new distribution you?d like to talk about?
> 
>  

Is there an interest in a talk on general business tools like
accounting, CRM, and general uses of Linux today in a business
environment?

> 
> Other ideas: 
> 
> -         compare apt, urpmi, yast, and yum.  This could be 4 people,
> or 1 person.
> 
> -         Linux on other hardware (Mac, PPC, handhelds, mainframes,
> routers)
> 
> -         Any of the great ideas on
> http://tomshiro.org/cgi-bin/twiki/view/ALE/TopicsForTalks
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks,
> 
>  
> 
> Michael
> 
> 
> !DSPAM:41deb73a245114817681130! 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________________
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> !DSPAM:41deb73a245114817681130!
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From esoteric at 3times25.net  Fri Jan  7 12:06:01 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Fri Jan  7 12:06:01 2005
Subject: [ale] ale NW January meeting
Message-ID: <41DEC080.9000302@3times25.net>

I will not be able to attend the ALE NW meeting this month.  I do not 
have a presenter as of yet either.

Is there anyone who would be able to moderate the meeting this month?

Is there someone who would step up to doing a presentation?

If there is no presentation, it could be a generic switchboard meeting.

If no one steps up to moderate the meeting, it will be canceled.

Let me know ASAP?

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From ale1 at cybertechcafe.net  Fri Jan  7 12:06:33 2005
From: ale1 at cybertechcafe.net (Nathan J. Underwood)
Date: Fri Jan  7 12:06:33 2005
Subject: [ale] OT - Linux Based Web Hosting Services
In-Reply-To: <41DEA25D.4090807@MaestroIT.com>
References: <41DE1B29.6090204@mindspring.com> <41DE94A4.50906@3times25.net>
	<41DEA25D.4090807@MaestroIT.com>
Message-ID: <41DEC07A.3000508@cybertechcafe.net>

I agree with Alan on this.  We've used a number of 'discount' VPS type 
solutions in the past, and our experience has been that you get can get 
either 1) cheap hosting, or 2) good hosting.  We've not been able to 
find both.  One of the least expensive *good* options that we've found 
has been Server Beach, but the cost is substantially higher than the $16 
per mo that Bob mentioned earlier.

--
registered linux user # 73046

Nathan J. Underwood
Cyber Tech Cafe' <><
http://www.cybertechcafe.net

Alan Dobkin wrote:
> On 1/7/2005 8:54 AM, Geoffrey wrote:
> 
>> Bob Kruger wrote:
>>
>>> Storage - 30GB
>>> Bandwidth - 600GB
>>
>>
>>
>> Both Speedfactory and 1and1 provide such services, you might check 
>> them out.  Speedfactory might be a better solution since they are 
>> local (if you are, you never know anymore on this list. :) )
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, but neither of them even come close to making the ridiculous claims 
> for storage space or bandwidth that Bob selected from Canaca.com.
> 
> There are many decent web hosting providers, including those local in 
> Atlanta, that offer more reasonable plans at fair prices.  But if Bob's 
> client really needs that much storage space or bandwidth and expects 
> reliability, then I think the monthly cost will rise considerably for 
> service from a reputable provider.
> 
> Alan
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From mhirsch at nubridges.com  Fri Jan  7 12:07:38 2005
From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael Hirsch)
Date: Fri Jan  7 12:07:38 2005
Subject: [ale] Speaker needed for Thursday's ALE Central meeting
Message-ID: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF02591FC8@germanium.numethods.com>

Absolutely.  We've had many conversations on this list about just such
questions.  

Are you volunteering?

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
James P. Kinney III
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 11:57 AM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] Speaker needed for Thursday's ALE Central meeting

On Fri, 2005-01-07 at 11:21, Michael Hirsch wrote:
> Continuing our run of bad luck with the ALE Central meetings, our
> speaker for next week (Charles Shapiro) is sick and doesn't think
> he'll be able to give the quality talk he was planning on. 
> Accordingly, we need a volunteer or volunteers for next week.
> 
>  
> 
> Do you have a project you are involved in?  Something that you like to
> use, but doesn't seem to be as popular as it should be?  Have you done
> an install lately from a new distribution you'd like to talk about?
> 
>  

Is there an interest in a talk on general business tools like
accounting, CRM, and general uses of Linux today in a business
environment?

> 
> Other ideas: 
> 
> -         compare apt, urpmi, yast, and yum.  This could be 4 people,
> or 1 person.
> 
> -         Linux on other hardware (Mac, PPC, handhelds, mainframes,
> routers)
> 
> -         Any of the great ideas on
> http://tomshiro.org/cgi-bin/twiki/view/ALE/TopicsForTalks
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks,
> 
>  
> 
> Michael
> 
> 
> !DSPAM:41deb73a245114817681130! 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________________
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> !DSPAM:41deb73a245114817681130!
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7



From kwc at theworld.com  Fri Jan  7 12:19:24 2005
From: kwc at theworld.com (Kenneth W Cochran)
Date: Fri Jan  7 12:19:24 2005
Subject: [ale] pop3 retrieving single complete message
Message-ID: <200501071711.MAA6032721@shell.TheWorld.com>

>Subject: RE: [ale] pop3 retrieving single complete message
>Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 11:55:10 -0500
>From: "Michael Hirsch" <mhirsch at nubridges.com>
>To: "Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts" <ale at ale.org>
>
>Isn't that what fetchmail does?  Or any mail reader will do it, too.
>
>Michael

I guess, but I don't use pop3 email & I don't poll a server for it.
For the time being I'm working on a fix for the poppy glitch; the neat
thing about that little script is that I can look at mail on a pop3
server without downloading it, as well as downloading and/or deleting
single messages.

Umm...  Suggestion(s) for a simple "raw" CLI-mode mailreader?
I want to retrieve/download a single message complete with headers.
More specifically, it's a phish-attempt I'm trying to "package" nicely
for the security folks at the spoofed company.

-kc

>-----Original Message-----
>From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
>Kenneth W Cochran
>Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 11:47 AM
>To: ale at ale.org
>Subject: [ale] pop3 retrieving single complete message
>
>What would be a good way ("manual/interactive" or with some pgm/script)
>to retrieve a complete-with-headers-and-html-crap message from
>a pop3 server?
>
>I used to use a little Perl thing called "poppy" but that isn't working
>here somehow.
>
>Other suggestions/alternatives?


From pizza at shaftnet.org  Fri Jan  7 12:29:30 2005
From: pizza at shaftnet.org (Stuffed Crust)
Date: Fri Jan  7 12:29:30 2005
Subject: [ale] pop3 retrieving single complete message
In-Reply-To: <200501071711.MAA6032721@shell.TheWorld.com>
References: <200501071711.MAA6032721@shell.TheWorld.com>
Message-ID: <20050107171406.GA2730@shaftnet.org>

On Fri, Jan 07, 2005 at 12:11:52PM -0500, Kenneth W Cochran wrote:
> I guess, but I don't use pop3 email & I don't poll a server for it.
> For the time being I'm working on a fix for the poppy glitch; the neat
> thing about that little script is that I can look at mail on a pop3
> server without downloading it, as well as downloading and/or deleting
> single messages.

>From the perspective of the pop3 server, "download" and "look" are the 

same thing.  I think you meant "download+delete".  POP3 really isn't 
meant for interactive message use though.

> Umm...  Suggestion(s) for a simple "raw" CLI-mode mailreader?
> I want to retrieve/download a single message complete with headers.
> More specifically, it's a phish-attempt I'm trying to "package" nicely
> for the security folks at the spoofed company.

Um, any mailreader will fetch the whole message, headers and all.  (I 
thought you were a mutt user?  just hit 'h' or save the message into its 
own mbox and use cat.  :)

However, fetchmail may do what you want, you can have it log the entire 
traffic stream to and from the server, and IIRC fetch individual 
messages.

 - Pizza
-- 
Solomon Peachy        				 ICQ: 1318344
Melbourne, FL 					 JID: pitha at myjabber.net
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur
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From pete.hardie at gmail.com  Fri Jan  7 12:54:27 2005
From: pete.hardie at gmail.com (Pete Hardie)
Date: Fri Jan  7 12:54:27 2005
Subject: [ale] AGP card slot issues, again
Message-ID: <31b32240050107095067b90bb5@mail.gmail.com>

Hello again,

After a bit of research, I've settled that it *is* an AGP slot on the
mobo of my daughter's computer, and I have an AGP video card, but as I
mentioned in another message, the AGP card will not fit in the slot,
because the slot is the kind not intended to hold a card at the edge
of the board, and the card *is* that type.

So I'm looking for an AGP card riser with a right-angle bend.  I've
determined that such beasts exist, and that there are 2 types, one
bending each way.

I've found them on Ebay for $22 plus $7 shipping, and Fry's had one
for $45.  ANyone know of someplace in Atl that might caryr such a
thing for a bettre price?

TIA,

Pete

-- 
Better Living Through Bitmaps


From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Fri Jan  7 12:56:06 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Fri Jan  7 12:56:06 2005
Subject: [ale] Speaker needed for Thursday's ALE Central meeting
In-Reply-To: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF02591FC8@germanium.numethods.com>
References: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF02591FC8@germanium.numethods.com>
Message-ID: <1105120334.4690.37.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>

On Fri, 2005-01-07 at 12:03, Michael Hirsch wrote:
> Absolutely.  We've had many conversations on this list about just such
> questions.  
> 
> Are you volunteering?

It sure sounds like it, doesn't it? 

OK. The topic of next weeks ALE Central meeting will be:

1. Linux in the SMB Environment of 2005 
    or 
2. Tux Gets Paid
    or
3. Making Money from at Home with Your Computer



> 
> Michael
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
> James P. Kinney III
> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 11:57 AM
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [ale] Speaker needed for Thursday's ALE Central meeting
> 
> On Fri, 2005-01-07 at 11:21, Michael Hirsch wrote:
> > Continuing our run of bad luck with the ALE Central meetings, our
> > speaker for next week (Charles Shapiro) is sick and doesn't think
> > he'll be able to give the quality talk he was planning on. 
> > Accordingly, we need a volunteer or volunteers for next week.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Do you have a project you are involved in?  Something that you like to
> > use, but doesn't seem to be as popular as it should be?  Have you done
> > an install lately from a new distribution you'd like to talk about?
> > 
> >  
> 
> Is there an interest in a talk on general business tools like
> accounting, CRM, and general uses of Linux today in a business
> environment?
> 
> > 
> > Other ideas: 
> > 
> > -         compare apt, urpmi, yast, and yum.  This could be 4 people,
> > or 1 person.
> > 
> > -         Linux on other hardware (Mac, PPC, handhelds, mainframes,
> > routers)
> > 
> > -         Any of the great ideas on
> > http://tomshiro.org/cgi-bin/twiki/view/ALE/TopicsForTalks
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Michael
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> > 
> > !DSPAM:41deb73a245114817681130!
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From barry at alltc.com  Fri Jan  7 12:59:26 2005
From: barry at alltc.com (Barry Hawkins)
Date: Fri Jan  7 12:59:26 2005
Subject: [ale] OT - Linux Based Web Hosting Services
In-Reply-To: <41DE1B29.6090204@mindspring.com>
References: <41DE1B29.6090204@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <41DE5C7E.40002@alltc.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Bob Kruger wrote:
[...]
| OK, now the question.  Anyone know of a web hosting company offering
| similar capabilities at a similar price, and will allow SSH access from
| anywhere?
[...]
~    I have not seen it mentioned yet, but HostingMatters[0] out of
Jacksonville, FL is an excellent LAMP provider.  I highly recommend them
for LAMP-based hosting, and their support community forum[1] is
absolutely wonderful.  I consider them part of any due diligence in a
hosting search.

[0] - http://www.hostmatters.com
[1] - http://forums.hostmatters.com/

Regards,
- --
Barry Hawkins
All Things Computed
site: www.alltc.com
weblog: www.yepthatsme.com

Registered Linux User #368650
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From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Fri Jan  7 13:00:20 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Fri Jan  7 13:00:20 2005
Subject: [ale] Speaker needed for Thursday's ALE Central meeting
In-Reply-To: <1105120334.4690.37.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>
References: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF02591FC8@germanium.numethods.com>
	<1105120334.4690.37.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <1105120566.4690.39.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>

On Fri, 2005-01-07 at 12:52, James P. Kinney III wrote:
> On Fri, 2005-01-07 at 12:03, Michael Hirsch wrote:
> > Absolutely.  We've had many conversations on this list about just such
> > questions.  
> > 
> > Are you volunteering?
> 
> It sure sounds like it, doesn't it? 
> 
> OK. The topic of next weeks ALE Central meeting will be:
> 
> 1. Linux in the SMB Environment of 2005 
>     or 
> 2. Tux Gets Paid
>     or
> 3. Making Money from at Home with Your Computer

3. Making Money at Home with Your Computer

Gah...
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> > Michael
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
> > James P. Kinney III
> > Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 11:57 AM
> > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> > Subject: Re: [ale] Speaker needed for Thursday's ALE Central meeting
> > 
> > On Fri, 2005-01-07 at 11:21, Michael Hirsch wrote:
> > > Continuing our run of bad luck with the ALE Central meetings, our
> > > speaker for next week (Charles Shapiro) is sick and doesn't think
> > > he'll be able to give the quality talk he was planning on. 
> > > Accordingly, we need a volunteer or volunteers for next week.
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > Do you have a project you are involved in?  Something that you like to
> > > use, but doesn't seem to be as popular as it should be?  Have you done
> > > an install lately from a new distribution you'd like to talk about?
> > > 
> > >  
> > 
> > Is there an interest in a talk on general business tools like
> > accounting, CRM, and general uses of Linux today in a business
> > environment?
> > 
> > > 
> > > Other ideas: 
> > > 
> > > -         compare apt, urpmi, yast, and yum.  This could be 4 people,
> > > or 1 person.
> > > 
> > > -         Linux on other hardware (Mac, PPC, handhelds, mainframes,
> > > routers)
> > > 
> > > -         Any of the great ideas on
> > > http://tomshiro.org/cgi-bin/twiki/view/ALE/TopicsForTalks
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > Thanks,
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > Michael
> > > 
> > > 
> > >  
> > > 
> > > ______________________________________________________________________
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ale mailing list
> > > Ale at ale.org
> > > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> > > 
> > > !DSPAM:41deb73a245114817681130!
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From jloden at toughguy.net  Fri Jan  7 14:24:56 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Fri Jan  7 14:24:56 2005
Subject: [ale] iTunes on Linux
In-Reply-To: <20050107141643.47115.qmail@web54410.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20050107141643.47115.qmail@web54410.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200501071418.56772.jloden@toughguy.net>

I have to agree.  Crossover is, at least for me, an essential app (testing 
sites in IE, Photoshop use, etc) but man, did it freak me out seeing that IE 
logo appear on the desktop!

-Jay

On Friday 07 January 2005 9:16, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> Crossover wasn't bad at all.
>
> It *was* kinda creepy seeing that IE logo on my redhat
> desktop, though.
>
>
> --J


From jloden at toughguy.net  Fri Jan  7 14:30:15 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Fri Jan  7 14:30:15 2005
Subject: [ale] AGP card slot issues, again
In-Reply-To: <31b32240050107095067b90bb5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <31b32240050107095067b90bb5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200501071424.01135.jloden@toughguy.net>

Wouldn't it be cheaper / easier to just pick up an AGP card that fits? I used 
to have like ten of them floating around but I think I gave them all 
away...if you want I can see if one of my buddies has a 8mb AGP card still.  
You did say it was an 8mb, I think?  Or maybe I'm going senile. 

-Jay

On Friday 07 January 2005 12:50, Pete Hardie wrote:
> Hello again,
>
> After a bit of research, I've settled that it *is* an AGP slot on the
> mobo of my daughter's computer, and I have an AGP video card, but as I
> mentioned in another message, the AGP card will not fit in the slot,
> because the slot is the kind not intended to hold a card at the edge
> of the board, and the card *is* that type.
>
> So I'm looking for an AGP card riser with a right-angle bend.  I've
> determined that such beasts exist, and that there are 2 types, one
> bending each way.
>
> I've found them on Ebay for $22 plus $7 shipping, and Fry's had one
> for $45.  ANyone know of someplace in Atl that might caryr such a
> thing for a bettre price?
>
> TIA,
>
> Pete


From jloden at toughguy.net  Fri Jan  7 14:38:24 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Fri Jan  7 14:38:24 2005
Subject: [ale] apt-get ques for Debian users
Message-ID: <200501071432.18890.jloden@toughguy.net>

I run Debian (Mepis install, basically Debian Testing/Unstable) on my laptop, 
and I have been using apt-get quite happily for about a month or two now.  
However, I recently had a huge number of packages upgrade after an apt-get 
upgrade (I'm assuming because of the new Debian 3.0r4), and now I have a 
whole big list of "packages kept back" when I do apt-get upgrade.  

What does this mean, and why are they being held back?  They look to be mostly 
updated KDE packages.  Should I be doing apt-get dist-upgrade ?  Are they 
being held back due to possible conflicts?

-Jay


From barry at alltc.com  Fri Jan  7 14:46:51 2005
From: barry at alltc.com (Barry Hawkins)
Date: Fri Jan  7 14:46:51 2005
Subject: [ale] apt-get ques for Debian users
In-Reply-To: <200501071432.18890.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <200501071432.18890.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <41DE75C1.3070403@alltc.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Jay Loden wrote:
| I run Debian (Mepis install, basically Debian Testing/Unstable) on my
laptop,
| and I have been using apt-get quite happily for about a month or two
now.
| However, I recently had a huge number of packages upgrade after an
apt-get
| upgrade (I'm assuming because of the new Debian 3.0r4), and now I have a
| whole big list of "packages kept back" when I do apt-get upgrade.
|
| What does this mean, and why are they being held back?  They look to
be mostly
| updated KDE packages.  Should I be doing apt-get dist-upgrade ?  Are they
| being held back due to possible conflicts?
[...]
Jay,
~    I would recommend using aptitude to sort out the dependencies and
conflicts.  The Debain KDE packaging team apparently upset quite a few
people with how they handled the move to 3.3.1.  The Gnome team, on the
other hand, have received accolades for making a smooth transition from
2.6 to 2.8.  The recent update to Woody (3.0r4) would not affect you if
you are using testing or unstable.  You may want to post the content of
your /etc/apt/sources.list; if you are mixing unstable and testing, you
can get some really wacked out dependency issues.
~    Do not run apt-get dist-upgrade.  With your present state that could
prove disastrous.

Sincerely,
- --
Barry Hawkins
All Things Computed
site: www.alltc.com
weblog: www.yepthatsme.com

Registered Linux User #368650
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From jloden at toughguy.net  Fri Jan  7 15:06:12 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Fri Jan  7 15:06:12 2005
Subject: [ale] sound disappeared (debian)
Message-ID: <200501071500.14949.jloden@toughguy.net>

I have had repeated problems on my debian laptop.  I had no sound (wrong 
permissions, which I corrected).  I got it working for about a month, only 
for it to randomly disappear yesterday upon rebooting. 

When trying to configure the sound in Control Panel (KDE) I get the following 
error: 

Sound server informational message:
Error while initializing the sound driver:
device /dev/dsp can't be opened (No such device)
The sound server will continue, using the null output device 

I checked and /dev/dsp does exist, it's a symlink to /dev/dsp0

I'm sorta stuck on this one, because I'm not sure what's wrong.   I ran 
alsaconf again to try and get it to re-recognize the sound card, and it did, 
and it said it was ready to play sound,etc.  But then I tried to open 
alsamixer, and I get: 

alsamixer: function snd_ctl_open failed for default: No such device

Anyone have some suggestions I can try? 

-Jay


From james at sumners.ath.cx  Fri Jan  7 15:37:54 2005
From: james at sumners.ath.cx (James Sumners)
Date: Fri Jan  7 15:37:54 2005
Subject: [ale] apt-get ques for Debian users
In-Reply-To: <200501071432.18890.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <200501071432.18890.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <20050107153407.5dec320a@sumners.ath.cx>

Packages are usually held back because they have new dependencies. You could
either a) `apt-get install package_name`, b) `apt-get dist-upgrade`, or c) use
something like Synaptic to do a "smart upgrade" (basically does dist-upgrade for
you). If you go with option A you will be able to see what the new dependencies
are and make decisions from there.

On Fri, 7 Jan 2005 14:32:18 -0500
Jay Loden <jloden at toughguy.net> wrote:

> I run Debian (Mepis install, basically Debian Testing/Unstable) on my laptop, 
> and I have been using apt-get quite happily for about a month or two now.  
> However, I recently had a huge number of packages upgrade after an apt-get 
> upgrade (I'm assuming because of the new Debian 3.0r4), and now I have a 
> whole big list of "packages kept back" when I do apt-get upgrade.  
> 
> What does this mean, and why are they being held back?  They look to be mostly
> updated KDE packages.  Should I be doing apt-get dist-upgrade ?  Are they 
> being held back due to possible conflicts?
> 
> -Jay
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


-- 
James Sumners
http://ug.dyndns.org/~jsumners/

"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological
personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the
corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a
condition to which they are quickly addicted."

Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto)
CH:D 59


From james at sumners.ath.cx  Fri Jan  7 15:38:59 2005
From: james at sumners.ath.cx (James Sumners)
Date: Fri Jan  7 15:38:59 2005
Subject: [ale] sound disappeared (debian)
In-Reply-To: <200501071500.14949.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <200501071500.14949.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <20050107153447.10e93d15@sumners.ath.cx>

Did you install 'udev'?

On Fri, 7 Jan 2005 15:00:14 -0500
Jay Loden <jloden at toughguy.net> wrote:

> I have had repeated problems on my debian laptop.  I had no sound (wrong 
> permissions, which I corrected).  I got it working for about a month, only 
> for it to randomly disappear yesterday upon rebooting. 
> 
> When trying to configure the sound in Control Panel (KDE) I get the following 
> error: 
> 
> Sound server informational message:
> Error while initializing the sound driver:
> device /dev/dsp can't be opened (No such device)
> The sound server will continue, using the null output device 
> 
> I checked and /dev/dsp does exist, it's a symlink to /dev/dsp0
> 
> I'm sorta stuck on this one, because I'm not sure what's wrong.   I ran 
> alsaconf again to try and get it to re-recognize the sound card, and it did, 
> and it said it was ready to play sound,etc.  But then I tried to open 
> alsamixer, and I get: 
> 
> alsamixer: function snd_ctl_open failed for default: No such device
> 
> Anyone have some suggestions I can try? 


-- 
James Sumners
http://ug.dyndns.org/~jsumners/

"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological
personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the
corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a
condition to which they are quickly addicted."

Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto)
CH:D 59


From barry at alltc.com  Fri Jan  7 16:04:18 2005
From: barry at alltc.com (Barry Hawkins)
Date: Fri Jan  7 16:04:18 2005
Subject: [ale] sound disappeared (debian)
In-Reply-To: <200501071500.14949.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <200501071500.14949.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <41DEF867.5010909@alltc.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Jay Loden wrote:
| I have had repeated problems on my debian laptop.  I had no sound (wrong
| permissions, which I corrected).  I got it working for about a month,
only
| for it to randomly disappear yesterday upon rebooting.
Jay,
~    Which kernel are you running, and is it a custom-compiled one or a
Debian-packaged one?  Also, can you provide specs for your laptop?  The
output of 'uname -a' and 'lspci' would provide most of the information.

Regards,
- --
Barry Hawkins
All Things Computed
site: www.alltc.com
weblog: www.yepthatsme.com

Registered Linux User #368650
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From pete.hardie at gmail.com  Fri Jan  7 17:08:32 2005
From: pete.hardie at gmail.com (Pete Hardie)
Date: Fri Jan  7 17:08:32 2005
Subject: [ale] AGP card slot issues, again
In-Reply-To: <200501071424.01135.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <31b32240050107095067b90bb5@mail.gmail.com>
	<200501071424.01135.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <31b32240050107140499977f0@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, 7 Jan 2005 14:24:01 -0500, Jay Loden <jloden at toughguy.net> wrote:
> Wouldn't it be cheaper / easier to just pick up an AGP card that fits? I used
> to have like ten of them floating around but I think I gave them all
> away...if you want I can see if one of my buddies has a 8mb AGP card still.
> You did say it was an 8mb, I think?  Or maybe I'm going senile.

You have no style :->

Actually, if you have an 8Mb AGP card around that you'd like to sell,
and that would resolve this hardware snafu, I'm open to buying it. 
I've had litle luck finding a cheap card - the one I'm trying now is a
Radeon 7000, which was $27 ($17?) at Microcenter.  Most of the others
are $50+, AGP 8x monster cards.

Pete

-- 
Better Living Through Bitmaps


From jimmyc at speedfactory.net  Fri Jan  7 19:03:18 2005
From: jimmyc at speedfactory.net (Jim Philips)
Date: Fri Jan  7 19:03:18 2005
Subject: [ale] sound disappeared (debian)
In-Reply-To: <200501071500.14949.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <200501071500.14949.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <200501071858.30655.jimmyc@speedfactory.net>

On Friday 07 January 2005 03:00 pm, Jay Loden wrote:
> I have had repeated problems on my debian laptop.  I had no sound (wrong
> permissions, which I corrected).  I got it working for about a month, only
> for it to randomly disappear yesterday upon rebooting.
>
> When trying to configure the sound in Control Panel (KDE) I get the
> following error:
>
> Sound server informational message:
> Error while initializing the sound driver:
> device /dev/dsp can't be opened (No such device)
> The sound server will continue, using the null output device
>
> I checked and /dev/dsp does exist, it's a symlink to /dev/dsp0

As I recall, this is a bogus error message in KDE. Check your processes (ps 
-ef | grep artsd) and see if artsd is out there. If it isn't, try starting 
artsd at the command line. If it gives you errors, report them back here. 
Anyway, forget what it's telling you about /dev/dsp.


From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Fri Jan  7 19:10:10 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Fri Jan  7 19:10:10 2005
Subject: [ale] OT - Linux Based Web Hosting Services
In-Reply-To: <41DEC07A.3000508@cybertechcafe.net>
References: <41DE1B29.6090204@mindspring.com> <41DE94A4.50906@3times25.net>
	<41DEA25D.4090807@MaestroIT.com> <41DEC07A.3000508@cybertechcafe.net>
Message-ID: <1105142785.7740.8.camel@linux.linxdev.com>

I totally agree.  I found that some of the cheap sites are even
sub-leasing servers from someone else.  Its like me selling you hosting
and I'm getting from Bob.  If there is a problem you call me and then I
call Bob.  This setup totally sucks.  ValueWeb is an Affinity Company
that sells Hosting to companies that sell hosting to you.  I used to
chew my old hosting company, http://www.canaca.com/, out because I knew
about our outages before they did.  I also could not even get in touch
until 9am EST M-F.  If you are a hobbyist then this is decent hosting if
this is a company site then get some great hosting.

Make sure you can call someone 24hrs and that your hosting provider has
access to the hardware they are putting your site on.  If not *STAY
AWAY*.  IMHO, $99.00 is the going rate for good hosting that is not
Virtual and has 24x7 support.

ServerBeach?  RackSpace?  Or Maybe E-Deltacomm.  I'm sure there are
others in the Atlanta Metro area.

On Fri, 2005-01-07 at 12:01, Nathan J. Underwood wrote:
> I agree with Alan on this.  We've used a number of 'discount' VPS type 
> solutions in the past, and our experience has been that you get can get 
> either 1) cheap hosting, or 2) good hosting.  We've not been able to 
> find both.  One of the least expensive *good* options that we've found 
> has been Server Beach, but the cost is substantially higher than the $16 
> per mo that Bob mentioned earlier.
> 
> --
> registered linux user # 73046
> 
> Nathan J. Underwood
> Cyber Tech Cafe' <><
> http://www.cybertechcafe.net
> 
> Alan Dobkin wrote:
> > On 1/7/2005 8:54 AM, Geoffrey wrote:
> > 
> >> Bob Kruger wrote:
> >>
> >>> Storage - 30GB
> >>> Bandwidth - 600GB
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Both Speedfactory and 1and1 provide such services, you might check 
> >> them out.  Speedfactory might be a better solution since they are 
> >> local (if you are, you never know anymore on this list. :) )
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Yes, but neither of them even come close to making the ridiculous claims 
> > for storage space or bandwidth that Bob selected from Canaca.com.
> > 
> > There are many decent web hosting providers, including those local in 
> > Atlanta, that offer more reasonable plans at fair prices.  But if Bob's 
> > client really needs that much storage space or bandwidth and expects 
> > reliability, then I think the monthly cost will rise considerably for 
> > service from a reputable provider.
> > 
> > Alan
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From ratcheson at earthlink.net  Fri Jan  7 19:22:59 2005
From: ratcheson at earthlink.net (Richard)
Date: Fri Jan  7 19:22:59 2005
Subject: [ale] AGP card slot issues, again
In-Reply-To: <31b32240050107095067b90bb5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <31b32240050107095067b90bb5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200501071819.15541.ratcheson@earthlink.net>

On Friday 07 January 2005 11:50 am, Pete Hardie wrote:
> Hello again,
>
> After a bit of research, I've settled that it *is* an AGP slot on the
> mobo of my daughter's computer, and I have an AGP video card, but as I
> mentioned in another message, the AGP card will not fit in the slot,
> because the slot is the kind not intended to hold a card at the edge
> of the board, and the card *is* that type.
>
> So I'm looking for an AGP card riser with a right-angle bend.  I've
> determined that such beasts exist, and that there are 2 types, one
> bending each way.
>
> I've found them on Ebay for $22 plus $7 shipping, and Fry's had one
> for $45.  ANyone know of someplace in Atl that might caryr such a
> thing for a bettre price?
>
Are you aware that there are different agp slots for a reason?   The older 
slots are for earlier cards and have different voltages for those cards.  
The later cards use lower voltages, IIRC, and if you can force one of 
those into an old slot, you may have some smoke at worst or simply a dead 
card from then on.

Bottom line, check your mobo specs and be sure they match your AGP card.

Richard
--
Old age ain't for Sissies!


From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Fri Jan  7 20:39:31 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Fri Jan  7 20:39:31 2005
Subject: [ale] OT - Linux Based Web Hosting Services
In-Reply-To: <1105142785.7740.8.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
References: <41DE1B29.6090204@mindspring.com> <41DE94A4.50906@3times25.net>
	<41DEA25D.4090807@MaestroIT.com> <41DEC07A.3000508@cybertechcafe.net>
	<1105142785.7740.8.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
Message-ID: <1105148126.4690.51.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>

On Fri, 2005-01-07 at 19:06, Christopher Fowler wrote:

> 
> ServerBeach?  RackSpace?  Or Maybe E-Deltacomm.  I'm sure there are
> others in the Atlanta Metro area.

I can vouch for ServerBeach and eDeltaCom. I have clients on ServerBeach
and it's great. I have had clients on eDeltaCom and things were great
there as well. 

eDeltaCom is different from ServerBeach. eDC is a CoLo space. You can
lease a machine from them and they maintain the hardware and you have
hands-on access to the console. Or you can provide your own hardware for
a rack or cabinet.

ServerBeach has no hand-on access, they provide all the hardware and
preload it with the OS of your choice (RedHat, Fedora, Debian, or M$)
and give you root password. They will provide a reboot service if you
need it.

SB is much less expensive than eDC. eDC provides much more service.

SB was started by a head honcho from RackSpace who figured out how to
provide a low cost hosting service AND make $$.
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Fri Jan  7 21:42:42 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Fri Jan  7 21:42:42 2005
Subject: [ale] Speaker needed for Thursday's ALE Central meeting
In-Reply-To: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF02591FC8@germanium.numethods.com>
References: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF02591FC8@germanium.numethods.com>
Message-ID: <1105151936.7740.11.camel@linux.linxdev.com>

On Fri, 2005-01-07 at 12:03, Michael Hirsch wrote:

> 
> Is there an interest in a talk on general business tools like
> accounting, CRM, and general uses of Linux today in a business
> environment?
> 

I'm looking for a good support tracking program.  Customers call in and
they are entered into a system and that problem can be tracked.  I use
Mantis for bug tracking and it is not really designed for tracking
support trouble tickets.


From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Fri Jan  7 21:46:58 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Fri Jan  7 21:46:58 2005
Subject: [ale] OT - Linux Based Web Hosting Services
In-Reply-To: <1105148126.4690.51.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>
References: <41DE1B29.6090204@mindspring.com> <41DE94A4.50906@3times25.net>
	<41DEA25D.4090807@MaestroIT.com> <41DEC07A.3000508@cybertechcafe.net>
	<1105142785.7740.8.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
	<1105148126.4690.51.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <1105152198.7740.14.camel@linux.linxdev.com>

Does anyone know of a sales contact at eDeltaCom?  I need to CoLo my
equipment that consists of a few servers and a pool of modems.  This
means that no only will I need ping and power but I also need pots lines
for the modems.

On Fri, 2005-01-07 at 20:35, James P. Kinney III wrote:
> On Fri, 2005-01-07 at 19:06, Christopher Fowler wrote:
> 
> > 
> > ServerBeach?  RackSpace?  Or Maybe E-Deltacomm.  I'm sure there are
> > others in the Atlanta Metro area.
> 
> I can vouch for ServerBeach and eDeltaCom. I have clients on ServerBeach
> and it's great. I have had clients on eDeltaCom and things were great
> there as well. 
> 
> eDeltaCom is different from ServerBeach. eDC is a CoLo space. You can
> lease a machine from them and they maintain the hardware and you have
> hands-on access to the console. Or you can provide your own hardware for
> a rack or cabinet.
> 
> ServerBeach has no hand-on access, they provide all the hardware and
> preload it with the OS of your choice (RedHat, Fedora, Debian, or M$)
> and give you root password. They will provide a reboot service if you
> need it.
> 
> SB is much less expensive than eDC. eDC provides much more service.
> 
> SB was started by a head honcho from RackSpace who figured out how to
> provide a low cost hosting service AND make $$.


From FishR at bellsouth.net  Fri Jan  7 21:50:39 2005
From: FishR at bellsouth.net (Ryan Fish)
Date: Fri Jan  7 21:50:39 2005
Subject: [ale] OT - Linux Based Web Hosting Services
References: <41DE1B29.6090204@mindspring.com>
	<41DE94A4.50906@3times25.net><41DEA25D.4090807@MaestroIT.com>
	<41DEC07A.3000508@cybertechcafe.net>
	<1105142785.7740.8.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
Message-ID: <02a301c4f52c$cc132770$6401a8c0@win2kpro1>

If you want a web host in the ATL metro area there is always Interland...


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Christopher Fowler" <cfowler at outpostsentinel.com>
To: <ale1 at cybertechcafe.net>; "Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts" <ale at ale.org>
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: [ale] OT - Linux Based Web Hosting Services


> I totally agree.  I found that some of the cheap sites are even
> sub-leasing servers from someone else.  Its like me selling you hosting
> and I'm getting from Bob.  If there is a problem you call me and then I
> call Bob.  This setup totally sucks.  ValueWeb is an Affinity Company
> that sells Hosting to companies that sell hosting to you.  I used to
> chew my old hosting company, http://www.canaca.com/, out because I knew
> about our outages before they did.  I also could not even get in touch
> until 9am EST M-F.  If you are a hobbyist then this is decent hosting if
> this is a company site then get some great hosting.
>
> Make sure you can call someone 24hrs and that your hosting provider has
> access to the hardware they are putting your site on.  If not *STAY
> AWAY*.  IMHO, $99.00 is the going rate for good hosting that is not
> Virtual and has 24x7 support.
>
> ServerBeach?  RackSpace?  Or Maybe E-Deltacomm.  I'm sure there are
> others in the Atlanta Metro area.
>
> On Fri, 2005-01-07 at 12:01, Nathan J. Underwood wrote:
> > I agree with Alan on this.  We've used a number of 'discount' VPS type
> > solutions in the past, and our experience has been that you get can get
> > either 1) cheap hosting, or 2) good hosting.  We've not been able to
> > find both.  One of the least expensive *good* options that we've found
> > has been Server Beach, but the cost is substantially higher than the $16
> > per mo that Bob mentioned earlier.
> >
> > --
> > registered linux user # 73046
> >
> > Nathan J. Underwood
> > Cyber Tech Cafe' <><
> > http://www.cybertechcafe.net
> >
> > Alan Dobkin wrote:
> > > On 1/7/2005 8:54 AM, Geoffrey wrote:
> > >
> > >> Bob Kruger wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Storage - 30GB
> > >>> Bandwidth - 600GB
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Both Speedfactory and 1and1 provide such services, you might check
> > >> them out.  Speedfactory might be a better solution since they are
> > >> local (if you are, you never know anymore on this list. :) )
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes, but neither of them even come close to making the ridiculous
claims
> > > for storage space or bandwidth that Bob selected from Canaca.com.
> > >
> > > There are many decent web hosting providers, including those local in
> > > Atlanta, that offer more reasonable plans at fair prices.  But if
Bob's
> > > client really needs that much storage space or bandwidth and expects
> > > reliability, then I think the monthly cost will rise considerably for
> > > service from a reputable provider.
> > >
> > > Alan
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ale mailing list
> > > Ale at ale.org
> > > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>



From audilover at speedfactory.net  Sat Jan  8 00:23:22 2005
From: audilover at speedfactory.net (Raylynn Knight)
Date: Sat Jan  8 00:23:22 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux Live CD (WiFi Audit) for PPC?
In-Reply-To: <64162eed0501051225585d1fe6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <64162eed0501051225585d1fe6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1105160770.4495.4.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>

On Wed, 2005-01-05 at 15:25 -0500, M Raju wrote:
> Hello guys...
>  I was wondering if anyone has come across a Linux Live CD(s), similar
> to Auditor (http://www.remote-exploit.org), for PPC. I run OS X on my
> PowerBook G4 and that Virtual PC for VMs is a real PoS. Not ventured
> into using bochs or qemu for running Linux...
> 
> Yes, most tools compile on OS X, but I rather have Linux for
> conducting pen-tests. If nothing I might have to consider running a
> dual boot Gentoo/OS X on the G4 to make maximum use of my Orinoco Gold
> card...
> 

Haven't tried it and it's still beta, but
http://www.sysresccd.org/download.en.php has a link to a System Rescue
CD based on Gentoo for PPC.

-- 
Raylynn Knight <audilover at speedfactory.net>


From audilover at speedfactory.net  Sat Jan  8 00:38:21 2005
From: audilover at speedfactory.net (Raylynn Knight)
Date: Sat Jan  8 00:38:21 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux Live CD (WiFi Audit) for PPC?
In-Reply-To: <41DC6724.4090708@alltc.com>
References: <64162eed0501051225585d1fe6@mail.gmail.com>
	<41DC6724.4090708@alltc.com>
Message-ID: <1105161447.4495.11.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>

On Wed, 2005-01-05 at 17:16 -0500, Barry Hawkins wrote:
> <SNIP>
> ~    Of course, it depends upon your goals, but if you are looking to run
> a distro on PowerPC, I would recommend at least entertaining Debian,
> installing via one of the daily images from the new installer[1].  That
> is my distribution of choice.
> (NOTE: I refuse to spiral into another fruitless distro thread, so if
> anyone gets the notion, do us all a favor.  And if you don't own a Mac,
> trust me, you are in no position to comment on how suitable a distro is
> for PowerPC architecture - unless you have an IBM pSeries sitting at
> home 8^).)
> ~    Which Mac you have also predetermines how much hell you will go
> through getting it to run.  Airport Extreme does not work, nor will it,
> and later ATI cards don't have very stable sleep support yet.  nVidia
> card-based Macs can forget about sleep capability.
> 
I'll second the fact that Debian (or Debian-based) is about the only way
to go for some PowerPC systems.   I can easily get the Debian installer
to handle my NuBus based PowerMacs, but the Fedora, SuSE, YellowDog and
Mandrake installers only seem to work with the kernel they deliver
(which doesn't support NuBus based PowerMacs).  And if you want Linux on
an m68k based system (Mac or other) Debian is the only supported
distribution. 

-- 
Raylynn Knight <audilover at speedfactory.net>


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sat Jan  8 00:44:45 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sat Jan  8 00:44:45 2005
Subject: [ale] OT - Linux Based Web Hosting Services
In-Reply-To: <02a301c4f52c$cc132770$6401a8c0@win2kpro1>
References: <41DE1B29.6090204@mindspring.com> <41DE94A4.50906@3times25.net>
	<41DEA25D.4090807@MaestroIT.com> <41DEC07A.3000508@cybertechcafe.net>
	<1105142785.7740.8.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
	<02a301c4f52c$cc132770$6401a8c0@win2kpro1>
Message-ID: <1105161889.5033.4.camel@blue>

On Fri, 2005-01-07 at 21:50 -0500, Ryan Fish wrote:
> If you want a web host in the ATL metro area there is always Interland...

I'll put in a good word for Interland.  I've leased 2 servers from them,
one in Miami and one in Atlanta, for the past 3+ years.  Not a complaint
to mention, and nothing but kudos for the quality of their network
admins and the stability of their network.  PLUS: 24hr call centers AND
it's not difficult to go right to a 3rd tier engineer.

-Jim P.





From audilover at speedfactory.net  Sat Jan  8 01:18:10 2005
From: audilover at speedfactory.net (Raylynn Knight)
Date: Sat Jan  8 01:18:10 2005
Subject: [ale] ale NW January meeting
In-Reply-To: <41DEC080.9000302@3times25.net>
References: <41DEC080.9000302@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <1105164777.4495.26.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>

On Fri, 2005-01-07 at 12:01 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> I will not be able to attend the ALE NW meeting this month.  I do not 
> have a presenter as of yet either.
> 
> Is there anyone who would be able to moderate the meeting this month?
> 
> Is there someone who would step up to doing a presentation?
> 
> If there is no presentation, it could be a generic switchboard meeting.
> 
> If no one steps up to moderate the meeting, it will be canceled.
> 
> Let me know ASAP?
> 
I'm pretty sure I could moderate.  Any suggestions for a presentation
that wouldn't require a lot of preparation time?  I'd be willing to do
some type of presentation, but I don't have a lot of time to prepare for
it.  

I could cover the new installer being used by Debian Sarge.
I could cover installing Ubuntu Linux on a PowerPC.

I'm also open to other topics suggestions that wouldn't require me to do
a lot of preparation.  (Serious lack of time to prepare!!).

-- 
Raylynn Knight <audilover at speedfactory.net>


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Sat Jan  8 10:01:21 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Sat Jan  8 10:01:21 2005
Subject: [ale] ale NW January meeting
In-Reply-To: <1105164777.4495.26.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
References: <41DEC080.9000302@3times25.net>
	<1105164777.4495.26.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
Message-ID: <41DFF4AC.7040401@3times25.net>

Raylynn Knight wrote:
> On Fri, 2005-01-07 at 12:01 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> 
>>I will not be able to attend the ALE NW meeting this month.  I do not 
>>have a presenter as of yet either.
>>
>>Is there anyone who would be able to moderate the meeting this month?
>>
>>Is there someone who would step up to doing a presentation?
>>
>>If there is no presentation, it could be a generic switchboard meeting.
>>
>>If no one steps up to moderate the meeting, it will be canceled.
>>
>>Let me know ASAP?
>>
> 
> I'm pretty sure I could moderate.  Any suggestions for a presentation
> that wouldn't require a lot of preparation time?  I'd be willing to do
> some type of presentation, but I don't have a lot of time to prepare for
> it.

That would be greatly appreciated.

> I could cover the new installer being used by Debian Sarge.
> I could cover installing Ubuntu Linux on a PowerPC.

Either would be great.

> I'm also open to other topics suggestions that wouldn't require me to do
> a lot of preparation.  (Serious lack of time to prepare!!).

Since you've offered to moderate and present, go with what is easiest 
for you.  Dr. Gayler was going to get back to me on other presentations 
that would be helpful to students at KSU, but I've not heard anything.

If no one offers to present and you're willing to step, you decide. 
Feel free to poll the list, but you've done that with this email. :)

Thanks Ray.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jrickman at gmail.com  Sat Jan  8 11:07:46 2005
From: jrickman at gmail.com (Jonathan Rickman)
Date: Sat Jan  8 11:07:46 2005
Subject: [ale] OT - Linux Based Web Hosting Services
In-Reply-To: <1105161889.5033.4.camel@blue>
References: <41DE1B29.6090204@mindspring.com> <41DE94A4.50906@3times25.net>
	<41DEA25D.4090807@MaestroIT.com> <41DEC07A.3000508@cybertechcafe.net>
	<1105142785.7740.8.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
	<02a301c4f52c$cc132770$6401a8c0@win2kpro1>
	<1105161889.5033.4.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <2802c522050108080317e0edae@mail.gmail.com>

Optimus Solutions handles eDeltaCom sales. Hook up with Katrina
Robinson and tell her I sent you. She'll take care of you.

krobinson at optimussolutions dot com.

--
Jonathan


From tejus at vijedi.net  Sat Jan  8 12:28:44 2005
From: tejus at vijedi.net (Tejus Parikh)
Date: Sat Jan  8 12:28:44 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: Open java development position
Message-ID: <1105205090.16842.28.camel@desmond.vijedi.net>

Hey everyone,

With all the pessimistic talk about the future of IT jobs in the
country, I thought I might pass this along to you all.  

The company that I'm working for has an immediate need for two
full-time, salaried JAVA developers, preferably one entry-level (1-2
years) and one junior level (3-5 years). The only problem, the job
requires relocation to Banglore, India.

J/K!  Actually, the job must be filled by somebody living in metro
Atlanta.  The company is a smallish telecom startup located in midtown
Atlanta, right near the Bell South buildings.  The environment is pretty
relaxed (no dress code).  I'm not sure what the exact salary range is,
but the pay is pretty competitive, the health plan is decent, and the
hours are flexible, but can be a little long (~45h/week).  The company's
primary product is a development platform for building applications that
users interface with over the phone.  These positions are for the
value-added tools that surround our core product.  No, our software does
not run on Linux, but that is one of our near term goals, so people with
Linux skills would be nice.  Solaris is a longer term goal. (Reason
number 2 for posting to you guys).

The entry-level position will be mostly Java-swing GUI development.
This position has been filled in the past with recent grads with degrees
in CS.  Really all we need for this position are people who know their
way around Java, and are willing to get to know it intimately.  

The mid-level position needs to be filled with someone with some
experience in "high-performance java" (j2ee, jboss, jmx, stuff like
that).  He/she will be mostly responsible for the server side processing
for the GUI-clients the junior guy will be working on.  There might be a
little knowledge of C++ required, but it's by no means a deal-breaker.

If this sounds like something you're interested in, please email me
(off-list) your name, a cover-letter like thing, and your resume.  I'll
also be glad to answer any questions you may have about the position(s)
or the company.  If it looks like you have something that we can use,
I'll gladly forward it along to my boss.  

Thanks a lot, I look forward to hearing from you guys.
Tejus


From hbbs at comcast.net  Sat Jan  8 13:20:49 2005
From: hbbs at comcast.net (Jeff Hubbs)
Date: Sat Jan  8 13:20:49 2005
Subject: [ale] Speaker needed for Thursday's ALE Central meeting
In-Reply-To: <1105151936.7740.11.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
References: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF02591FC8@germanium.numethods.com>
	<1105151936.7740.11.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
Message-ID: <1105208218.4540.26.camel@juanita>

I remember the name Vantive from years ago...

On Fri, 2005-01-07 at 21:38, Christopher Fowler wrote:
> On Fri, 2005-01-07 at 12:03, Michael Hirsch wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Is there an interest in a talk on general business tools like
> > accounting, CRM, and general uses of Linux today in a business
> > environment?
> > 
> 
> I'm looking for a good support tracking program.  Customers call in and
> they are entered into a system and that problem can be tracked.  I use
> Mantis for bug tracking and it is not really designed for tracking
> support trouble tickets.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From jloden at toughguy.net  Sat Jan  8 14:46:37 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Sat Jan  8 14:46:37 2005
Subject: [ale] Python  - read in text minus "\n"
Message-ID: <200501081440.32225.jloden@toughguy.net>

I have a question for any Python programmers/hackers out there.

I am reading (with popen() ) the return from a grep search.  However, using 
read()  or readlines() also reads in "\n" after every result.  Anyone know 
how I can read it in without the newlines?  

I could of course read through the list and remove the last two characters of 
every item, but before i do that I wanted to make sure there isn't a function 
that reads without including \n, \t, \r and such.  Alternatively, maybe 
someone can suggest a regex to parse it out (I don't know regular expressions 
yet). 

Thanks for any input!
-Jay


From pete.hardie at gmail.com  Sat Jan  8 14:47:40 2005
From: pete.hardie at gmail.com (Pete Hardie)
Date: Sat Jan  8 14:47:40 2005
Subject: [ale] AGP card slot issues, again
In-Reply-To: <200501071819.15541.ratcheson@earthlink.net>
References: <31b32240050107095067b90bb5@mail.gmail.com>
	<200501071819.15541.ratcheson@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <31b32240050108114376227fcd@mail.gmail.com>

> Are you aware that there are different agp slots for a reason?   The older
> slots are for earlier cards and have different voltages for those cards.
> The later cards use lower voltages, IIRC, and if you can force one of
> those into an old slot, you may have some smoke at worst or simply a dead
> card from then on.
> 
> Bottom line, check your mobo specs and be sure they match your AGP card.

Yep.  The Radeon 7000 is 2X/4X AGP, and the Gateway E3200 is older, so
I'm taking the risk that Gateway didn't spend extra money to make an
office-targeted machine forward upgradeable....

I' m starting to think I need to take photos of the mobo, the card and
all to make myself clear....thousand words and all that....


-- 
Better Living Through Bitmaps


From scherrey at proteus-tech.com  Sat Jan  8 15:14:47 2005
From: scherrey at proteus-tech.com (Benjamin Scherrey)
Date: Sat Jan  8 15:14:47 2005
Subject: [ale] Python  - read in text minus "\n"
In-Reply-To: <200501081440.32225.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <200501081440.32225.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <41E03E4A.8040105@proteus-tech.com>

Since the grep result is providing the newline then that's the correct 
behaviour (to give you the /n char in your input). But the simplest way 
to get rid of it is to cut it off.

input =  x.readline()
input = input[-1] // or input[-2] for a cr/lf input like from Windows

That do it or did I missunderstand your question?

       Ben Scherrey

Jay Loden wrote:

>I have a question for any Python programmers/hackers out there.
>
>I am reading (with popen() ) the return from a grep search.  However, using 
>read()  or readlines() also reads in "\n" after every result.  Anyone know 
>how I can read it in without the newlines?  
>
>I could of course read through the list and remove the last two characters of 
>every item, but before i do that I wanted to make sure there isn't a function 
>that reads without including \n, \t, \r and such.  Alternatively, maybe 
>someone can suggest a regex to parse it out (I don't know regular expressions 
>yet). 
>
>Thanks for any input!
>-Jay
>_______________________________________________
>Ale mailing list
>Ale at ale.org
>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
>  
>


From jloden at toughguy.net  Sat Jan  8 16:49:59 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Sat Jan  8 16:49:59 2005
Subject: [ale] Python  - read in text minus "\n"
Message-ID: <200501081643.57305.jloden@toughguy.net>

I randomly stumbled across what i wanted in the Python docs:

def serv_list():
 grep_tsk = os.popen("grep -l \"start|stop\" " + init_dir + "*")
 files = grep_tsk.read().splitlines()
 grp_tsk.close()

 return files

splitlines([keepends]):
Return a list of the lines in the string, breaking at line boundaries. Line
breaks are not included in the resulting list unless keepends is given and
true.

Thanks for the help though!
-Jay

On Saturday 08 January 2005 3:10, Ben Scherrey wrote:
> Since the grep result is providing the newline then that's the correct
> behaviour (to give you the /n char in your input). But the simplest way
> to get rid of it is to cut it off.
>
> input =  x.readline()
> input = input[-1] // or input[-2] for a cr/lf input like from Windows
>
> That do it or did I missunderstand your question?
>
>        Ben Scherrey

-------------------------------------------------------


From hbbs at comcast.net  Sat Jan  8 17:01:42 2005
From: hbbs at comcast.net (Jeff Hubbs)
Date: Sat Jan  8 17:01:42 2005
Subject: [ale] Python  - read in text minus "\n"
In-Reply-To: <41E03E4A.8040105@proteus-tech.com>
References: <200501081440.32225.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<41E03E4A.8040105@proteus-tech.com>
Message-ID: <1105221472.4540.33.camel@juanita>

Will  input =  x.readline()[-1] work?

Jeff

On Sat, 2005-01-08 at 15:10, Benjamin Scherrey wrote:
> Since the grep result is providing the newline then that's the correct 
> behaviour (to give you the /n char in your input). But the simplest way 
> to get rid of it is to cut it off.
> 
> input =  x.readline()
> input = input[-1] // or input[-2] for a cr/lf input like from Windows
> 
> That do it or did I missunderstand your question?
> 
>        Ben Scherrey
> 
> Jay Loden wrote:
> 
> >I have a question for any Python programmers/hackers out there.
> >
> >I am reading (with popen() ) the return from a grep search.  However, using 
> >read()  or readlines() also reads in "\n" after every result.  Anyone know 
> >how I can read it in without the newlines?  
> >
> >I could of course read through the list and remove the last two characters of 
> >every item, but before i do that I wanted to make sure there isn't a function 
> >that reads without including \n, \t, \r and such.  Alternatively, maybe 
> >someone can suggest a regex to parse it out (I don't know regular expressions 
> >yet). 
> >
> >Thanks for any input!
> >-Jay
> >_______________________________________________
> >Ale mailing list
> >Ale at ale.org
> >http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From jloden at toughguy.net  Sat Jan  8 23:28:16 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Sat Jan  8 23:28:16 2005
Subject: [ale] Python  - read in text minus "\n"
In-Reply-To: <1105221472.4540.33.camel@juanita>
References: <200501081440.32225.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<41E03E4A.8040105@proteus-tech.com>
	<1105221472.4540.33.camel@juanita>
Message-ID: <200501082322.02542.jloden@toughguy.net>

input = grep_tsk.readline()[:-1] #

does what I would have needed too, but I have to do it for each line in the 
file anyway, so I guess I'll stick with the method i found with splitlines()

-Jay

On Saturday 08 January 2005 4:57, Jeff Hubbs wrote:
> Will  input =  x.readline()[-1] work?
>
> Jeff


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sun Jan  9 03:12:17 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sun Jan  9 03:12:17 2005
Subject: [ale] Bellsouth DSL
Message-ID: <1105256533.3286.16.camel@blue>

I've been a long time customer of Comcast, and despite opinions
expressed on this list, I decided to try out Bellsouth's DSL service.

In short, I like it.  What I don't understand is why did I not have all
the problems that others seemed to have had, or more interestingly what
I would really like to know is why did my setup go so easy.  All I had
to do was put the DLS filter in-line with my phone, connect a a RJ11
cable between the filter and the modem (Westell) and plug an ethernet
cable from the modem into my linux laptop.  I then pointed my webbrowser
at http://192.168.1.254 and configured my Bellsouth username and
password before pressing the Connect button.  Immediately it pulled down
an IP and associated info.  Since I wanted to attach the DSL line to my
home network, via a switch port on my Linksys AP, I turned off the DHCP
server on the Westell and changed it's internal static IP to
192.168.3.254.

Why is that process so painful for all those people who call Bellsouth
names?

-Jim P.




From esoteric at 3times25.net  Sun Jan  9 08:05:49 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Sun Jan  9 08:05:49 2005
Subject: [ale] Bellsouth DSL
In-Reply-To: <1105256533.3286.16.camel@blue>
References: <1105256533.3286.16.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <41E12B31.8070401@3times25.net>

Jim Popovitch wrote:

> Why is that process so painful for all those people who call Bellsouth
> names?

It could well be you were just plain lucky.  I just finished working 
through a nightmare trying to get a client's dsl moved to a new 
location.  In summary:

1. dsl would be available 2 weeks after requested
2. dsl was available 5 days early.
3. no dial tone on the dsl line.
4. dial tone is returned, but now no dsl.
5. tech get's dsl going again, notes that the 'dumbass' (his words) who 
set up the dsl to start with had the tx/rv swapped and the dslam was 
screwed up.

Now, this was a speedfactory service, so maybe that explains why the 
local monopoly happened to screw it up so easily.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sun Jan  9 08:24:01 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sun Jan  9 08:24:01 2005
Subject: [ale] Bellsouth DSL
In-Reply-To: <41E12B31.8070401@3times25.net>
References: <1105256533.3286.16.camel@blue>  <41E12B31.8070401@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <1105276775.8156.12.camel@blue>

On Sun, 2005-01-09 at 08:01 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> Jim Popovitch wrote:
> 
> > Why is that process so painful for all those people who call Bellsouth
> > names?
> 
> It could well be you were just plain lucky.  I just finished working 
> through a nightmare trying to get a client's dsl moved to a new 
> location.  

Well, to be fair, my process was not as complicated as your customer's.
For starters I only added DSL service to an existing working phone line.
Secondly, I ordered this back in Nov and only yesterday got around to
hooking it up.  So perhaps they had some extra time to make sure that my
hookup would work.  Finally while the technology worked well, the
paper-work side had a glitch.  The account rep who took my order setup
an account name and email address (usually the same name minus
@bellsouth.net).  However they left a letter out of my account name, but
set my email address up right.  So, I had to call tech support to
inquire why my login credentials were failing.  Still that sort of stuff
is expected to some extent.

-Jim P.





From stev9161 at bellsouth.net  Sun Jan  9 12:12:27 2005
From: stev9161 at bellsouth.net (Wesley Stevens)
Date: Sun Jan  9 12:12:27 2005
Subject: [ale] Bellsouth DSL
In-Reply-To: <1105256533.3286.16.camel@blue>
References: <1105256533.3286.16.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <41E1675B.4060706@bellsouth.net>

Jim Popovitch wrote:

>I've been a long time customer of Comcast, and despite opinions
>expressed on this list, I decided to try out Bellsouth's DSL service.
>
>In short, I like it.  What I don't understand is why did I not have all
>the problems that others seemed to have had, or more interestingly what
>I would really like to know is why did my setup go so easy.  All I had
>to do was put the DLS filter in-line with my phone, connect a a RJ11
>cable between the filter and the modem (Westell) and plug an ethernet
>cable from the modem into my linux laptop.  I then pointed my webbrowser
>at http://192.168.1.254 and configured my Bellsouth username and
>password before pressing the Connect button.  Immediately it pulled down
>an IP and associated info.  Since I wanted to attach the DSL line to my
>home network, via a switch port on my Linksys AP, I turned off the DHCP
>server on the Westell and changed it's internal static IP to
>192.168.3.254.
>
>Why is that process so painful for all those people who call Bellsouth
>names?
>
>-Jim P.
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Ale mailing list
>Ale at ale.org
>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
>  
>
    I been running bellsouth dsl for about 2 years now at 1st it took 
about 2 months everything started to work. But when stuff started its 
been good (ive been on better but thats when i lived in Fl.) just 
recently i upgraded my service to top res grade it only took 3 days 
after ordering over the net and about a week before it was a stable 
connection. i think i rather be on speekeasy but my local dslam won't go 
any faster (i ask a repair guy that was working on it) 
    but to your question i think its more about the service after that 
process.


From ale at spinnerdog.com  Sun Jan  9 13:31:18 2005
From: ale at spinnerdog.com (David Hamm)
Date: Sun Jan  9 13:31:18 2005
Subject: [ale] Samba as ADS member server
Message-ID: <200501091327.27251.ale@spinnerdog.com>

I'm setting up Samba as an ADS member to serve files.  It seems to work but 
there are some odd things about setting permissions from the Win2003 box.  

If anyone has experience using samba as a file server in an Active Directory 
environment I'd like to ask them some questions.


From mike at tyderia.net  Sun Jan  9 15:39:48 2005
From: mike at tyderia.net (Mike Murphy)
Date: Sun Jan  9 15:39:48 2005
Subject: [ale] Bellsouth DSL
In-Reply-To: <41E1675B.4060706@bellsouth.net>
References: <1105256533.3286.16.camel@blue> <41E1675B.4060706@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <41E195A9.1000400@tyderia.net>

I was happy with them for the better part of 2.5 years. Then they 
blocked port 25 *inbound*, so I shopped for someone else. Now I have the 
same service from speedfactory, but on the rare occassion I do have a 
problem, I can actually talk to someone who knows what they are doing. 
So, for me the switch was worth it.

Mike


Wesley Stevens wrote:
> Jim Popovitch wrote:
> 
>> I've been a long time customer of Comcast, and despite opinions
>> expressed on this list, I decided to try out Bellsouth's DSL service.
>>
>> In short, I like it.  What I don't understand is why did I not have all
>> the problems that others seemed to have had, or more interestingly what
>> I would really like to know is why did my setup go so easy.  All I had
>> to do was put the DLS filter in-line with my phone, connect a a RJ11
>> cable between the filter and the modem (Westell) and plug an ethernet
>> cable from the modem into my linux laptop.  I then pointed my webbrowser
>> at http://192.168.1.254 and configured my Bellsouth username and
>> password before pressing the Connect button.  Immediately it pulled down
>> an IP and associated info.  Since I wanted to attach the DSL line to my
>> home network, via a switch port on my Linksys AP, I turned off the DHCP
>> server on the Westell and changed it's internal static IP to
>> 192.168.3.254.
>>
>> Why is that process so painful for all those people who call Bellsouth
>> names?
>>
>> -Jim P.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ale mailing list
>> Ale at ale.org
>> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>
>>  
>>
>    I been running bellsouth dsl for about 2 years now at 1st it took 
> about 2 months everything started to work. But when stuff started its 
> been good (ive been on better but thats when i lived in Fl.) just 
> recently i upgraded my service to top res grade it only took 3 days 
> after ordering over the net and about a week before it was a stable 
> connection. i think i rather be on speekeasy but my local dslam won't go 
> any faster (i ask a repair guy that was working on it)    but to your 
> question i think its more about the service after that process.
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

-- 

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Mike Murphy
781 Inman Mews Drive Atlanta GA 30307
Landline: 404-653-1070
Mobile: 404-545-6234
Email: mike at tyderia.net
AIM: mmichael453
ICBM: 33:45:14.0584N  84:21:43.038W
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+


From trey at fastmail.fm  Sun Jan  9 17:35:02 2005
From: trey at fastmail.fm (Trey Sizemore)
Date: Sun Jan  9 17:35:02 2005
Subject: [ale] Syntax for resizing photos
Message-ID: <1105309966.1193.13.camel@localhost>

Would someone help with the correct syntax for resizing some JPEG
images? I have a folder with a number of large images that I would like
to resize to 640x480 and place in a subfolder of this folder
called /Smaller.  I keep bunging it with convert and mogrify.

-- 
Cheers,
Trey
---

"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place.
Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are,
by definition, not smart enough to debug it."
--Brian W. Kernighan 

5:30PM up 1 day, 22:29, 0 users, load averages: 1.18, 0.89, 0.48 
FreeBSD salamander.thesizemores.net 5.3-STABLE i386


From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Sun Jan  9 17:46:29 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Sun Jan  9 17:46:29 2005
Subject: [ale] Syntax for resizing photos
In-Reply-To: <1105309966.1193.13.camel@localhost>
References: <1105309966.1193.13.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <1105310489.7740.17.camel@linux.linxdev.com>

mkdir smaller
for i in *.jpg 
do
  convert -resize 640x480 ${i} smaller/${i}
done

On Sun, 2005-01-09 at 17:32, Trey Sizemore wrote:
> Would someone help with the correct syntax for resizing some JPEG
> images? I have a folder with a number of large images that I would like
> to resize to 640x480 and place in a subfolder of this folder
> called /Smaller.  I keep bunging it with convert and mogrify.


From trey at fastmail.fm  Sun Jan  9 18:05:40 2005
From: trey at fastmail.fm (Trey Sizemore)
Date: Sun Jan  9 18:05:40 2005
Subject: [ale] Syntax for resizing photos
In-Reply-To: <1105310489.7740.17.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
References: <1105309966.1193.13.camel@localhost>
	<1105310489.7740.17.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
Message-ID: <1105311818.1193.15.camel@localhost>

On Sun, 2005-01-09 at 17:41 -0500, Christopher Fowler wrote:
> mkdir smaller
> for i in *.jpg 
> do
>   convert -resize 640x480 ${i} smaller/${i}
> done

Thanks.  Can I do this as from a bash prompt (syntax?) or do I need to
create a script with this content and execute?

-- 
Cheers,
Trey
---

If there is a sin against life, it consists perhaps not so much in
despairing of life as in hoping for another life and in eluding the
implacable grandeur of this life.
-- Albert Camus 

6:02PM up 1 day, 23:02, 0 users, load averages: 0.25, 0.19, 0.17 
FreeBSD salamander.thesizemores.net 5.3-STABLE i386


From trey at fastmail.fm  Sun Jan  9 18:55:51 2005
From: trey at fastmail.fm (Trey Sizemore)
Date: Sun Jan  9 18:55:51 2005
Subject: [ale] Syntax for resizing photos
In-Reply-To: <1105311818.1193.15.camel@localhost>
References: <1105309966.1193.13.camel@localhost>
	<1105310489.7740.17.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
	<1105311818.1193.15.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <1105314836.1193.17.camel@localhost>

On Sun, 2005-01-09 at 18:03 -0500, Trey Sizemore wrote:
> On Sun, 2005-01-09 at 17:41 -0500, Christopher Fowler wrote:
> > mkdir smaller
> > for i in *.jpg 
> > do
> >   convert -resize 640x480 ${i} smaller/${i}
> > done
> 
> Thanks.  Can I do this as from a bash prompt (syntax?) or do I need to
> create a script with this content and execute?
> 

Nevermind.  Got it.

-- 
Cheers,
Trey
---

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers
exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here,
it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something
even more bizarre and inexplicable.

There is another which states that this has already happened."
-- Douglas Adams 

6:53PM up 1 day, 23:52, 0 users, load averages: 0.76, 0.23, 0.08 
FreeBSD salamander.thesizemores.net 5.3-STABLE i386


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Sun Jan  9 19:53:22 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Sun Jan  9 19:53:22 2005
Subject: [ale] Bellsouth DSL
In-Reply-To: <41E195A9.1000400@tyderia.net>
Message-ID: <mailman.51.1105318402.18563.ale@ale.org>

Ditto on the Speedfactory.

I deplore any ISP that requires me to use their POP3 and SMTP servers rther
than my own (I use Yahoo Mail and pay for the privilege).  

The guys at Speedfactory, from the day and night shift support people to the
networking guy to the billing people have just been stellar.  I called when
I lost my job, and they happily held my invoice until I got some money.  

They are always available, and do their best to provision the service you
want.

In comparison to Speedfactory, BellSouth looks like a 1990's dialup
provider.  There *IS* no comparison.

Jerald M. Sheets jr.
Sr. UNIX Systems Administrator
McKesson, Inc.
(404) 293-8762
**********
>su -
Password:
# cat /dev/flood > /dev/earth
# rdev noah+beasts
# dd if=noah+beasts of=/dev/earth

PGP Key: 0x6267F183
BLOG:  http://www.jeraldsheets.com

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GIT d+ s++: a C++++ UL++++ P++ L+++ E--- W++ N+ o-- K+ w-- 
O M+ V PS- PE++ Y+ PGP++ t++ 5++ X+ R* tv- b+ DI++++ D++ 
G+ e h---- r+++ y++++ 
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----


-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Mike
Murphy
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 3:36 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] Bellsouth DSL

I was happy with them for the better part of 2.5 years. Then they blocked
port 25 *inbound*, so I shopped for someone else. Now I have the same
service from speedfactory, but on the rare occassion I do have a problem, I
can actually talk to someone who knows what they are doing. 
So, for me the switch was worth it.

Mike


Wesley Stevens wrote:
> Jim Popovitch wrote:
> 
>> I've been a long time customer of Comcast, and despite opinions 
>> expressed on this list, I decided to try out Bellsouth's DSL service.
>>
>> In short, I like it.  What I don't understand is why did I not have 
>> all the problems that others seemed to have had, or more 
>> interestingly what I would really like to know is why did my setup go 
>> so easy.  All I had to do was put the DLS filter in-line with my 
>> phone, connect a a RJ11 cable between the filter and the modem 
>> (Westell) and plug an ethernet cable from the modem into my linux 
>> laptop.  I then pointed my webbrowser at http://192.168.1.254 and 
>> configured my Bellsouth username and password before pressing the 
>> Connect button.  Immediately it pulled down an IP and associated 
>> info.  Since I wanted to attach the DSL line to my home network, via 
>> a switch port on my Linksys AP, I turned off the DHCP server on the 
>> Westell and changed it's internal static IP to 192.168.3.254.
>>
>> Why is that process so painful for all those people who call 
>> Bellsouth names?
>>
>> -Jim P.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ale mailing list
>> Ale at ale.org
>> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>
>>  
>>
>    I been running bellsouth dsl for about 2 years now at 1st it took 
> about 2 months everything started to work. But when stuff started its 
> been good (ive been on better but thats when i lived in Fl.) just 
> recently i upgraded my service to top res grade it only took 3 days 
> after ordering over the net and about a week before it was a stable 
> connection. i think i rather be on speekeasy but my local dslam won't go
> any faster (i ask a repair guy that was working on it)    but to your 
> question i think its more about the service after that process.
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

-- 

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Mike Murphy
781 Inman Mews Drive Atlanta GA 30307
Landline: 404-653-1070
Mobile: 404-545-6234
Email: mike at tyderia.net
AIM: mmichael453
ICBM: 33:45:14.0584N  84:21:43.038W
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 1/6/2005
 

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 1/6/2005
 


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sun Jan  9 22:39:00 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sun Jan  9 22:39:00 2005
Subject: [ale] Bellsouth DSL
In-Reply-To: <1105327390.3309.0.camel@blue>
References: <1105327390.3309.0.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <1105328065.3309.6.camel@blue>

On Sun, 2005-01-09 at 19:49 -0500, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> Ditto on the Speedfactory.

Speedfactory gets a lot of kudos here, but aren't they really just a
middleman for a DSL line that goes directly from your house/business to
BellSouth?  I understand that SF may provide some pop3/smpt/www/dns
servers other than those provided by BS, but your next statement seems
to suggest that you don't need these.

> I deplore any ISP that requires me to use their POP3 and SMTP servers rther
> than my own (I use Yahoo Mail and pay for the privilege).  

I use Yahoo too (obviously), so why do you need POP3 and SMTP ports open
on your upstream network?

-Jim P.







From esoteric at 3times25.net  Mon Jan 10 06:46:49 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Mon Jan 10 06:46:49 2005
Subject: [ale] Syntax for resizing photos
In-Reply-To: <1105310489.7740.17.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
References: <1105309966.1193.13.camel@localhost>
	<1105310489.7740.17.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
Message-ID: <41E26A19.8050103@3times25.net>

Christopher Fowler wrote:
> mkdir smaller
> for i in *.jpg 
> do
>   convert -resize 640x480 ${i} smaller/${i}
> done

Or, if you don't care about retaining the original images:

for i in *.jpg
do
   convert -resize 640x480 ${i} ${i}
done

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Mon Jan 10 06:55:21 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Mon Jan 10 06:55:21 2005
Subject: [ale] Bellsouth DSL
In-Reply-To: <1105328065.3309.6.camel@blue>
References: <1105327390.3309.0.camel@blue> <1105328065.3309.6.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <41E26C43.9020103@3times25.net>

Jim Popovitch wrote:
> On Sun, 2005-01-09 at 19:49 -0500, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> 
>>Ditto on the Speedfactory.
> 
> Speedfactory gets a lot of kudos here, but aren't they really just a
> middleman for a DSL line that goes directly from your house/business to
> BellSouth?  I understand that SF may provide some pop3/smpt/www/dns
> servers other than those provided by BS, but your next statement seems
> to suggest that you don't need these.

As long as Bellsouth retains their monopoly, they will always have a 
hand it this.  I will say that I've also gotten wonderful support from 
Speedfactory.  Although you're still going over the Bellsouth wire, it's 
nice to have the good people at Speedfactory working for you when it 
comes to issues.  Bellsouth just bloody does not care.

>>I deplore any ISP that requires me to use their POP3 and SMTP servers rther
>>than my own (I use Yahoo Mail and pay for the privilege).  
> 
> I use Yahoo too (obviously), so why do you need POP3 and SMTP ports open
> on your upstream network?

It really doesn't matter why he want's it.  Why question freedom to 
choose?  I will say it's quite difficult to test such a setup for a 
client if your isp is blocking those ports.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 10 07:06:15 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon Jan 10 07:06:15 2005
Subject: [ale] Bellsouth DSL
In-Reply-To: <41E26C43.9020103@3times25.net>
References: <1105327390.3309.0.camel@blue> <1105328065.3309.6.camel@blue>
	<41E26C43.9020103@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <1105358505.6981.9.camel@blue>

On Mon, 2005-01-10 at 06:51 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> Jim Popovitch wrote:
> > I use Yahoo too (obviously), so why do you need POP3 and SMTP ports open
> > on your upstream network?
> 
> It really doesn't matter why he want's it.  Why question freedom to 
> choose?  

Well, here's why:  Spammers use dialup, and other cheap lines, to bulk
email their trash directly to other mailservers.  So, if I run a
legitimate mailserver. I have to make a choice whether to accept email
from all of Comcast's IPs or just the ones identified as Comcast's mail
servers.  If Comcast blocked port 25 then Comcast becomes responsible
for approving their users behavior, etc., rather then EVERY other
business.

> I will say it's quite difficult to test such a setup for a 
> client if your isp is blocking those ports.

Your clients should use business solutions, not home solutions.  I know
of NO ISP that port blocks on business data lines.

-Jim P.


From vloggins at turbocorp.com  Mon Jan 10 08:30:57 2005
From: vloggins at turbocorp.com (Van Loggins)
Date: Mon Jan 10 08:30:57 2005
Subject: [ale] Just seen this on Distrowatch.com - SUSE 9.2 Pro DVD image
 available from SUSE
Message-ID: <41E28299.6050404@turbocorp.com>



ftp://ftp.sunsite.utk.edu/pub/linux/suse/suse/i386/9.2/iso/SUSE-Linux-9.2-FTP-DVD.iso

Here is a link to the article

http://distrowatch.com/?newsid=02238#0

I know the ale ftp site mirrors the suse site so this might already be 
on there for download.

I had made a copy of the cd version that belongs to a co-worker but It's 
very nice to have a DVD copy because you don't have to keep swapping 
disks. :-)

Have a great day!

Van

-- 
Van Loggins        vloggins at turbocorp.com
Assistant System Administrator - ESC Dept
      _
     -o)
     /\\
    _\_v
Linux User #316727
678-989-3052
Turbo Logistics
http://www.turbocorp.com


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 10 09:02:29 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Mon Jan 10 09:02:29 2005
Subject: [ale] Bellsouth DSL
In-Reply-To: <41E26C43.9020103@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <20050110135839.78795.qmail@web54403.mail.yahoo.com>


> > I use Yahoo too (obviously), so why do you need
> POP3 and SMTP ports open
> > on your upstream network?

Because I use Yahoo POP access.  you know, the service
you elected not to pay for.

I pay $19.99/yr to have more storage space (I
regularly receive files in excess of 10M via email),
enhanced SPAM protection with throwaway addresses (as
many as I like), and I have a considerably larger
number of filters, blocks, etc.

I mean, these are all the services we had free when
yahoo! was announced in '93 (or was it '92??)  

the reason I use their SMTP and POP is because I pay
for the privilege.  Why should BellSouth force me to
use their servers?  when I was on BellSouth back in
Baton Rouge, their mail servers and SMTP was down so
much that I scripted an automated email to support for
letting them know when their email server went down. 
(this was during the NT/Imail trials)

After all, if I want to receive and send email from 7
different POP/SMTP locations (which I have), then I
should be allowed to do so.

For *YEARS* I have asked for an ISP that doesn't treat
me like a moron...someone who will give me an IP and
bandwidth, and leave me the F%^&* alone.  Speedfactory
does that, and I appreciate them for it.

And I can guarantee you that when I start doing some
hosting, I will do my best to keep Speedfactory
involved.  They know how to be the ISP for a techie,
and I will show my appreciation for that as much as I
can and in any way that I can.

--JMS


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Mon Jan 10 09:23:15 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Mon Jan 10 09:23:15 2005
Subject: [ale] Bellsouth DSL
In-Reply-To: <1105358505.6981.9.camel@blue>
References: <1105327390.3309.0.camel@blue>
	<1105328065.3309.6.camel@blue>	<41E26C43.9020103@3times25.net>
	<1105358505.6981.9.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <41E28EEB.3010104@3times25.net>

Jim Popovitch wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-01-10 at 06:51 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> 
>>Jim Popovitch wrote:
>>
>>>I use Yahoo too (obviously), so why do you need POP3 and SMTP ports open
>>>on your upstream network?
>>
>>It really doesn't matter why he want's it.  Why question freedom to 
>>choose?  
> 
> 
> Well, here's why:  Spammers use dialup, and other cheap lines, to bulk
> email their trash directly to other mailservers.  So, if I run a
> legitimate mailserver. I have to make a choice whether to accept email
> from all of Comcast's IPs or just the ones identified as Comcast's mail
> servers.  If Comcast blocked port 25 then Comcast becomes responsible
> for approving their users behavior, etc., rather then EVERY other
> business.

Unfortunately, it's not something the isp's are going to research much, 
thus they'll basically either block them all or none.  I do like the 
idea of hitting the problem at the source.  I would rather it be dealt 
with before it get's on my box, but a good solution doesn't quite exist 
yet.  Personally, I think that once you've been identified as a spammer, 
then your network access should be removed for a year or so.  Grant it, 
there'll be some who work around it, but making everyone pay the price 
because of a few sleazy jerks is not the right solution.

>>I will say it's quite difficult to test such a setup for a 
>>client if your isp is blocking those ports.
> 
> 
> Your clients should use business solutions, not home solutions.  I know
> of NO ISP that port blocks on business data lines.

I'm referring to initial testing which I don't do from a client's 
network, but from my own.  Regardless, it was hypothetical as I don't 
have such a problem.

For many small businesses a 'home solution' makes sense for many folks, 
particularly when it's run from a residence.  At one time, Bellsouth 
wouldn't even consider business service to a residence.  There are a 
huge number of folks who have residential services and use them for 
business.  Voice and ip.  It makes no sense to pay Bellsouth a higher 
price for the same services because they call it a 'business line.'

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 10 09:42:22 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon Jan 10 09:42:22 2005
Subject: [ale] Bellsouth DSL
In-Reply-To: <20050110135839.78795.qmail@web54403.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20050110135839.78795.qmail@web54403.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1105367861.7965.22.camel@blue>

On Mon, 2005-01-10 at 05:58 -0800, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> > > I use Yahoo too (obviously), so why do you need
> > POP3 and SMTP ports open
> > > on your upstream network?
> 
> Because I use Yahoo POP access.  you know, the service
> you elected not to pay for.

Wrong.  I've been paying for it since day 1.  In fact, I helped
beta-test that service.  I am also a VIP customer of yahoo, no adverts,
etc and not ads on the www interface when I use it.  

> I pay $19.99/yr to have more storage space (I
> regularly receive files in excess of 10M via email),

Same here <yawn> except I took the $39.00/yr (does that make you less of
a person?)

> enhanced SPAM protection with throwaway addresses (as
> many as I like), and I have a considerably larger
> number of filters, blocks, etc.

<yawn>  (hoping you don't go into body parts further down in this email)

> I mean, these are all the services we had free when
> yahoo! was announced in '93 (or was it '92??)

Huh?

> the reason I use their SMTP and POP is because I pay
> for the privilege.  Why should BellSouth force me to
> use their servers?  when I was on BellSouth back in
> Baton Rouge, their mail servers and SMTP was down so
> much that I scripted an automated email to support for
> letting them know when their email server went down. 
> (this was during the NT/Imail trials)

Dude, you are seriously missing the point.  Bellsouth can block outbound
POP3 and SMTP (responsibly) and you can still access Yahoo!,etc
(responsibly).  Nobody is talking about complete ingress/egress
blocking, although I would prefer they do it that way and then
roll-back.  POP3 is not the issue at all, however SMTP is.  Read up on
MSP/MSA and your eyes will be opened.  Btw, Yahoo has tons of pages just
for you on this:  Start here: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/mail/spam/ 

> 
> After all, if I want to receive and send email from 7
> different POP/SMTP locations (which I have), then I
> should be allowed to do so.

Sure.  Just get up-to-date and use authenticated SMTP.

> For *YEARS* I have asked for an ISP that doesn't treat
> me like a moron...someone who will give me an IP and
> bandwidth, and leave me the F%^&* alone.  Speedfactory
> does that, and I appreciate them for it.

You can still have all the bandwidth and IP(s) that you want with out
needing to directly connect to port 25 on MY servers.  What gives you
the right to demand complete access to my ports via a network that you
don't own?  I don't want you to block outbound port 25, I want your
provider's provider to do it.

> And I can guarantee you that when I start doing some
> hosting, I will do my best to keep Speedfactory
> involved.  They know how to be the ISP for a techie,
> and I will show my appreciation for that as much as I
> can and in any way that I can.

<yawn>

-Jim P.





From stillwaxin at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 10:04:33 2005
From: stillwaxin at gmail.com (Michael Still)
Date: Mon Jan 10 10:04:33 2005
Subject: [ale] Just seen this on Distrowatch.com - SUSE 9.2 Pro DVD image
	available from SUSE
In-Reply-To: <41E28299.6050404@turbocorp.com>
References: <41E28299.6050404@turbocorp.com>
Message-ID: <12bbc01c05011007004147d29d@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 08:26:49 -0500, Van Loggins <vloggins at turbocorp.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> ftp://ftp.sunsite.utk.edu/pub/linux/suse/suse/i386/9.2/iso/SUSE-Linux-9.2-FTP-DVD.iso
> 
Yes it's there:
ftp://ftp.ale.org/pub/suse/i386/9.2/iso/SUSE-Linux-9.2-FTP-DVD.iso

ftp://ftp.ale.org/pub/suse/i386/9.2/iso/SUSE-Linux-9.2-mini-installation.iso


From mpwright at speedfactory.net  Mon Jan 10 10:05:48 2005
From: mpwright at speedfactory.net (Mark Wright)
Date: Mon Jan 10 10:05:48 2005
Subject: [ale] Bellsouth DSL
In-Reply-To: <41E26C43.9020103@3times25.net>
References: <1105327390.3309.0.camel@blue> <1105328065.3309.6.camel@blue>
	<41E26C43.9020103@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <573B8CCC-6318-11D9-9A5D-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>

I have been using Speedfactory for years without ever having a windows 
machine installed and their support has been very helpful.

My main reason for choosing them was they give me a static IP.  It 
costs more than Bell.

Mark......


On Jan 10, 2005, at 6:51 AM, Geoffrey wrote:

> Jim Popovitch wrote:
>> On Sun, 2005-01-09 at 19:49 -0500, Jerald Sheets wrote:
>>> Ditto on the Speedfactory.
>> Speedfactory gets a lot of kudos here, but aren't they really just a
>> middleman for a DSL line that goes directly from your house/business 
>> to
>> BellSouth?  I understand that SF may provide some pop3/smpt/www/dns
>> servers other than those provided by BS, but your next statement seems
>> to suggest that you don't need these.
>
> As long as Bellsouth retains their monopoly, they will always have a 
> hand it this.  I will say that I've also gotten wonderful support from 
> Speedfactory.  Although you're still going over the Bellsouth wire, 
> it's nice to have the good people at Speedfactory working for you when 
> it comes to issues.  Bellsouth just bloody does not care.
>
>>> I deplore any ISP that requires me to use their POP3 and SMTP 
>>> servers rther
>>> than my own (I use Yahoo Mail and pay for the privilege).
>> I use Yahoo too (obviously), so why do you need POP3 and SMTP ports 
>> open
>> on your upstream network?
>
> It really doesn't matter why he want's it.  Why question freedom to 
> choose?  I will say it's quite difficult to test such a setup for a 
> client if your isp is blocking those ports.
>
> -- 
> Until later, Geoffrey
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 10 10:25:16 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Mon Jan 10 10:25:16 2005
Subject: [ale] Bellsouth DSL
In-Reply-To: <1105367861.7965.22.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <20050110152127.80098.qmail@web54402.mail.yahoo.com>

Wow...aren't we the a-hole this morning.

<Office Space>

Sounds like somebody's got a case of the Mondays.

</Office Space>
--- Jim Popovitch <jimpop at yahoo.com> wrote:

> You can still have all the bandwidth and IP(s) that
> you want with out
> needing to directly connect to port 25 on MY
> servers.  What gives you
> the right to demand complete access to my ports via
> a network that you
> don't own?  I don't want you to block outbound port
> 25, I want your
> provider's provider to do it.


and you are seriously missing the point.

I have a provider that will provide me the services I
want on my terms.  I don't need some yahoo ass admin
somewhere determining for me what I can and cannot do
on my own equipment *REGARDLESS* of the carrier I
chose.

Speedfactory will give me what I ask for, I will give
them money.  

If enough people need the services I require, then
they will also move to similar providers, who offer
exactly what they want on their terms.  

It's called the free market, and I'm using it.  why
this makes you angry is beyond me.  Sure, I also have
my own SMTP server (which I use when in my house for
my private domains).  The point is *I* have the
freedom to use *WHATEVER* SMTP server *I* decide to
use when I am *WHEREVER* I am at that time.  

Neither you, nor Bellsouth, nor god's own ISP up on
the mountain should have the kahunas to presume to
know how better to use my bandwidth (or prevent its
use) than me.  

thank god for Speedfactory, and to hell with
BellSouth.

They show no concern for the customer, block ports
that I prefer to use, and are condescending, arrogant
assholes on the phone.

These are the same morons who are using 400 sqft. on
my personal property to host a remote central office,
yet refuse to provision a simple discus system for 3
or 6M service because I am the only person in our area
who has asked for it (yeah, right).  However, they can
decide to use my property, and I have no say-so in the
matter?  Do you think that's fair at all?

They deserve to have as many customers as possible who
are unhappy with their service move elsewhere.  That's
free enterprise.  And if enough people decide they
don't like the service for one reason or another, then
they too can move on.  Eventually, if enough people
vote with their feet, Bellsouth just may look at why
their customer base is leaving them.

Hell, I even use a CLEC for my phone service (soon
vonage) rather than BellSouth.  

The point is that Bellsouth gives crappy service to
technically minded people.  Speedfactory gives
MAGNIFICENT service to technically minded people, and
encourage you to manage all your own services from WWW
to SSH to POP&SMTP.

I prefer freedom.


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 10 10:29:10 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Mon Jan 10 10:29:10 2005
Subject: [ale] Bellsouth DSL
In-Reply-To: <1105358505.6981.9.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <20050110152519.45454.qmail@web54407.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Jim Popovitch <jimpop at yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 2005-01-10 at 06:51 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> > Jim Popovitch wrote:
> Well, here's why:  Spammers use dialup, and other
> cheap lines, to bulk
> email their trash directly to other mailservers. 
> So, if I run a
> legitimate mailserver. I have to make a choice
> whether to accept email
> from all of Comcast's IPs or just the ones
> identified as Comcast's mail
> servers.  If Comcast blocked port 25 then Comcast
> becomes responsible
> for approving their users behavior, etc., rather
> then EVERY other
> business.

And after reading this again....

Why don't you (instead of slamming someone's choice of
ISP's) get behind a sound solution like Sender Policy
framework + secure sendmail/postfix/qmail
implementation?  Everywhere I've implemented this, the
company's problems with Spammers using their email
address space for spamming has just quietly withered
away.

Choose a technical route and support standards.

(and yes, I use SPF on my DNS servers on my
Speedfactory service)


From james at sumners.ath.cx  Mon Jan 10 10:35:13 2005
From: james at sumners.ath.cx (james at sumners.ath.cx)
Date: Mon Jan 10 10:35:13 2005
Subject: [ale] Bellsouth DSL
In-Reply-To: <20050110152127.80098.qmail@web54402.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1105367861.7965.22.camel@blue>
	<20050110152127.80098.qmail@web54402.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20050110153120.GH24492@sumners.ath.cx>

Put simply -- Speed Factory rules.

On Mon, Jan 10, 2005 at 07:21:27AM -0800, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> and you are seriously missing the point.
> 
> I have a provider that will provide me the services I
> want on my terms.  I don't need some yahoo ass admin
> somewhere determining for me what I can and cannot do
> on my own equipment *REGARDLESS* of the carrier I
> chose.
> ... 
> The point is that Bellsouth gives crappy service to
> technically minded people.  Speedfactory gives
> MAGNIFICENT service to technically minded people, and
> encourage you to manage all your own services from WWW
> to SSH to POP&SMTP.
> 
> I prefer freedom.

-- 
James Sumners
http://ug.dyndns.org/~jsumners/

"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted."

Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto)
CH:D 59


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 10 10:40:51 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon Jan 10 10:40:51 2005
Subject: [ale] Bellsouth DSL
In-Reply-To: <20050110152519.45454.qmail@web54407.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20050110152519.45454.qmail@web54407.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1105371379.9392.4.camel@blue>

On Mon, 2005-01-10 at 07:25 -0800, Jerald Sheets wrote:

> And after reading this again..
> 
> Why don't you (instead of slamming someone's choice of
> ISP's) get behind a sound solution like Sender Policy
> framework + secure sendmail/postfix/qmail
> implementation?  

I have, long before you suggested it too.

> Everywhere I've implemented this, the
> company's problems with Spammers using their email
> address space for spamming has just quietly withered
> away.
> 
> Choose a technical route and support standards.

Yes, SMTP Auth and MSA *are* standards, ones you are ignoring.

> 
> (and yes, I use SPF on my DNS servers on my
> Speedfactory service)

Your use of SPF doesn't really help you one bit.  It helps others to
verify that your IPs are authorized (something you don't seem to support
on SMTP) to send email for your domains.

-Jim P.






From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 10 10:51:43 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon Jan 10 10:51:43 2005
Subject: [ale] Bellsouth DSL
In-Reply-To: <20050110152127.80098.qmail@web54402.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20050110152127.80098.qmail@web54402.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1105372020.9392.16.camel@blue>

On Mon, 2005-01-10 at 07:21 -0800, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> Wow...aren't we the a-hole this morning.
> 
> <Office Space>
> 
> Sounds like somebody's got a case of the Mondays.

NO, your text to me was pretty rough with: "you know, the service
you elected not to pay for".  I only replied in kind, but with validity.

> 

> 
> and you are seriously missing the point.

No I'm not.  You want the ability to SPAM me, but you want me to take
for granite that you won't.  Again, (this is where you are missing my
point) this only applies to non-commercial providers.

> 
> I have a provider that will provide me the services I
> want on my terms.  I don't need some yahoo ass admin

Who's having a bad Monday?

> somewhere determining for me what I can and cannot do
> on my own equipment *REGARDLESS* of the carrier I
> chose.

Some people, i.e. spammers, DO need to this though.

> 
> Speedfactory will give me what I ask for, I will give
> them money.  

Good, then there is nothing wrong with this as long as SF continues
their good service.  What happens if SF starts leasing lines to spammers
to use? (btw, this happens all the time to ISP you would not even think
would do that)

> 
> If enough people need the services I require, then
> they will also move to similar providers, who offer
> exactly what they want on their terms.
> 
> It's called the free market, and I'm using it.  why
> this makes you angry is beyond me.  

I'm not angry about free markets.  Free markets also aren't about
everything goes.  There are regulations and restraints in the free
market.

> Sure, I also have
> my own SMTP server (which I use when in my house for
> my private domains).  The point is *I* have the
> freedom to use *WHATEVER* SMTP server *I* decide to
> use when I am *WHEREVER* I am at that time.

Sure.  However you DON'T have the right to send me unsolicited spam.
I'm not saying that you are, but what prevents your neighbor from doing
it?  What you want is for everyone to believe that everyone else shares
your values.  Dude, that ain't gonna happen.

>   
> 
> Neither you, nor Bellsouth, nor god's own ISP up on
> the mountain should have the kahunas to presume to
> know how better to use my bandwidth (or prevent its
> use) than me. 

Ha.  I'd bet my $$ on SF's engineers knowing better how to use your
bandwidth before I would on you.  So your not an idiot, why should I
believe that you will always be honest?

> 
> thank god for Speedfactory, and to hell with
> BellSouth.
> 
> They show no concern for the customer, block ports
> that I prefer to use, and are condescending, arrogant
> assholes on the phone.

I think I see why BS are condescending towards you. ;-)

-Jim P.





From mike at tyderia.net  Mon Jan 10 10:54:14 2005
From: mike at tyderia.net (Mike Murphy)
Date: Mon Jan 10 10:54:14 2005
Subject: [ale] Bellsouth DSL
In-Reply-To: <1105371379.9392.4.camel@blue>
References: <20050110152519.45454.qmail@web54407.mail.yahoo.com>
	<1105371379.9392.4.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <41E2A308.8080209@tyderia.net>

to refine my original point though (before this thread turns into a 
pointless "I hate spammers why don't you" sort of thread): I think that 
it is perfectly responsible of an ISP to block port 25 *outbound*. This 
should help with the botted spam factory machine problem. Even with 
speedfactory, I consider it polite of me to forward all my mail from mta 
through their outbound mailserver (something I did with bellsouth as well).

I've yet to hear an argument for blocking port 25 *inbound* that made 
sense however.

And yes, SPF holds promise, but I doubt it will eliminate all spam, and 
the over/under on widespread enough implementation of it to the point 
where it makes a difference is probably 3 - 5 years.

Speedfactory is a little more expensive ,but not enough so where my 
expense reports have been rejected, thankfully. If I were paying for it 
myself, I'd consider it worth the expense. The first time you need 
support, and don't have to spend an hour on hold to talk to someone sans 
clue the extra couple of bucks a month is worth it.

Mike


Jim Popovitch wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-01-10 at 07:25 -0800, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> 
> 
>>And after reading this again..
>>
>>Why don't you (instead of slamming someone's choice of
>>ISP's) get behind a sound solution like Sender Policy
>>framework + secure sendmail/postfix/qmail
>>implementation?  
> 
> 
> I have, long before you suggested it too.
> 
> 
>>Everywhere I've implemented this, the
>>company's problems with Spammers using their email
>>address space for spamming has just quietly withered
>>away.
>>
>>Choose a technical route and support standards.
> 
> 
> Yes, SMTP Auth and MSA *are* standards, ones you are ignoring.
> 
> 
>>(and yes, I use SPF on my DNS servers on my
>>Speedfactory service)
> 
> 
> Your use of SPF doesn't really help you one bit.  It helps others to
> verify that your IPs are authorized (something you don't seem to support
> on SMTP) to send email for your domains.
> 
> -Jim P.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

-- 

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Mike Murphy
781 Inman Mews Drive Atlanta GA 30307
Landline: 404-653-1070
Mobile: 404-545-6234
Email: mike at tyderia.net
AIM: mmichael453
JDAM: 33:45:14.0584N  84:21:43.038W
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+


From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Mon Jan 10 11:00:57 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Mon Jan 10 11:00:57 2005
Subject: [ale] Bellsouth DSL
In-Reply-To: <41E2A308.8080209@tyderia.net>
References: <20050110152519.45454.qmail@web54407.mail.yahoo.com>
	<1105371379.9392.4.camel@blue>  <41E2A308.8080209@tyderia.net>
Message-ID: <1105372614.12690.10.camel@linux.linxdev.com>

On Mon, 2005-01-10 at 10:45, Mike Murphy wrote:
> Speedfactory is a little more expensive ,but not enough so where my 
> expense reports have been rejected, thankfully. If I were paying for it 
> myself, I'd consider it worth the expense. The first time you need 
> support, and don't have to spend an hour on hold to talk to someone sans 
> clue the extra couple of bucks a month is worth it.
> 

Totally agree.  I've had to call a few times and each time I talked to
someone within a minute or two.  I also had their help when I upgraded
my line that forced me to go to pppoe.  Thay told me how to setup pppoe
on Linux.  If that ain't worth a few bucks then nothing is.



From jbaldwin at antinode.net  Mon Jan 10 11:03:45 2005
From: jbaldwin at antinode.net (James Baldwin)
Date: Mon Jan 10 11:03:45 2005
Subject: [ale] Bellsouth DSL
In-Reply-To: <20050110135839.78795.qmail@web54403.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20050110135839.78795.qmail@web54403.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9C8124D5-6320-11D9-9F6F-000D93C280F2@antinode.net>

On 10 Jan 2005, at 08:58, Jerald Sheets wrote:

> I mean, these are all the services we had free when
> yahoo! was announced in '93 (or was it '92??)

Try '94... and unless you were at Stanford working off the creators 
workstations, '95.

> Why should BellSouth force me to
> use their servers?

Because BellSouth is being a good network neighbor. If you're really 
interested in this answer grep through the archives of NANAE, NANOG, 
and Spam-L. Port 25 blocking on dynamic ranges is a Good Thing (tm), 
and even if the major players in the dynamic space didn't agree, I'd 
recommend every mail server possible reject mail from known dynamic 
ranges (as many of them do).

> After all, if I want to receive and send email from 7
> different POP/SMTP locations (which I have), then I
> should be allowed to do so.

Authenticated SMTP is useful for this. And if you don't wish to use 
BellSouth's ASMTP servers, then port 587 exist _precisely_ for this 
purpose: To allow for the submission of mail from client to server over 
an authenticated channel. I don't know anyone who blocks outbound 110 
or 587.

If you wish to send mail from N locations you must have some sort of 
authentication in place and ASMTP, being built into almost every mail 
client, is the best way to do this. If you don't wish to authenticate 
and still send mail from your own SMTP server then I recommend everyone 
block you. You are an open relay.

> For *YEARS* I have asked for an ISP that doesn't treat
> me like a moron...someone who will give me an IP and
> bandwidth, and leave me the F%^&* alone.  Speedfactory
> does that, and I appreciate them for it.

Speedfactory also provides reverse records that are very easy to filter 
on as dynamic which makes it extremely easy for ISPs to block their 
clients without blocking their servers, and I appreciate them for it.

On 10 Jan 2005, at 10:45, Mike Murphy wrote:

> And yes, SPF holds promise, but I doubt it will eliminate all spam, 
> and the over/under on widespread enough implementation of it to the 
> point where it makes a difference is probably 3 - 5 years.

SPF is not a spam solution and people who see it as such are going to 
be very, very disappointed.

---
James Baldwin
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From mhirsch at nubridges.com  Mon Jan 10 11:04:58 2005
From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael Hirsch)
Date: Mon Jan 10 11:04:58 2005
Subject: [ale] Speaker needed for Thursday's ALE Central meeting
Message-ID: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF04058A85@germanium.numethods.com>

We use RT (request tracker) here at work.  It seems pretty good for
exactly that sort of thing.  It was a little hairy to set up, as I
recall.  I had to do a lot of hand holding in the IT room until they got
it running.

Yes, it is Open Source, of course.

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
> Christopher Fowler
> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 9:39 PM
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> Subject: RE: [ale] Speaker needed for Thursday's ALE Central meeting
> 
> On Fri, 2005-01-07 at 12:03, Michael Hirsch wrote:
> 
> >
> > Is there an interest in a talk on general business tools like
> > accounting, CRM, and general uses of Linux today in a business
> > environment?
> >
> 
> I'm looking for a good support tracking program.  Customers call in
and
> they are entered into a system and that problem can be tracked.  I use
> Mantis for bug tracking and it is not really designed for tracking
> support trouble tickets.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale



From jloden at toughguy.net  Mon Jan 10 11:06:35 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Mon Jan 10 11:06:35 2005
Subject: [ale] Bellsouth DSL
In-Reply-To: <41E2A308.8080209@tyderia.net>
References: <20050110152519.45454.qmail@web54407.mail.yahoo.com>
	<1105371379.9392.4.camel@blue> <41E2A308.8080209@tyderia.net>
Message-ID: <200501101100.20948.jloden@toughguy.net>

Too late...

On Monday 10 January 2005 10:45, Mike Murphy wrote:
> to refine my original point though (before this thread turns into a
> pointless "I hate spammers why don't you" sort of thread)


From jloden at toughguy.net  Mon Jan 10 11:10:30 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Mon Jan 10 11:10:30 2005
Subject: [ale] Kwrite encoding problems
Message-ID: <200501101104.09462.jloden@toughguy.net>

Occasionally, when trying to save something copied into Kwrite, I get:

"The document could not be saved, as the selected encoding cannot encode every 
unicode character in it. If you are unsure of which encoding to use, try 
UTF-8 or UTF-16."

This usually happens when copying from Firefox.  I know, I should use the 
"copy as plain text" extension, but in any case, is there a workaround for 
this with kwrite? 

It won't save it even after setting the encoding to UTF-8 or UTF-16

-Jay


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 10 11:26:37 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Mon Jan 10 11:26:37 2005
Subject: [ale] Bellsouth DSL
In-Reply-To: <200501101100.20948.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <20050110162214.15873.qmail@web54403.mail.yahoo.com>

the funniest part about all this is I was forced to
bring up spammers and stuff.  

It started out as "I like Speedfactory because they
let me access my email accounts at other providers."

How it declined into the current conversation is
beyond me.

--JMS


--- Jay Loden <jloden at toughguy.net> wrote:

> Too late...
> 
> On Monday 10 January 2005 10:45, Mike Murphy wrote:
> > to refine my original point though (before this
> thread turns into a
> > pointless "I hate spammers why don't you" sort of
> thread)
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Mon Jan 10 12:52:10 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Mon Jan 10 12:52:10 2005
Subject: [ale] 1 gig usb drive $59
Message-ID: <41E2BFE4.2070101@3times25.net>

Officemax has a 1 gig usb drive for $59, no rebate.  Will plug directly 
into a usb, but comes with a cable as well.  Actually says it works with 
  Linux 2.4 or >.  Also has instructions for Linux.

Anyone seen a better price on such a device?

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 10 13:01:02 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon Jan 10 13:01:02 2005
Subject: [ale] 1 gig usb drive $59
In-Reply-To: <41E2BFE4.2070101@3times25.net>
References: <41E2BFE4.2070101@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <1105379793.9392.43.camel@blue>

On Mon, 2005-01-10 at 12:48 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> Officemax has a 1 gig usb drive for $59, no rebate.  Will plug directly 
> into a usb, but comes with a cable as well.  Actually says it works with 
>   Linux 2.4 or >.  Also has instructions for Linux.
> 
> Anyone seen a better price on such a device?

Wow, that is a very good price.  Last good price I saw was 512Mb for $39
at Officemax back in Nov.

Sort of makes you wonder what 1 year from now will look like wrt USB
drives. Hmmmm

-Jim P.


From griffisb at bellsouth.net  Mon Jan 10 13:29:07 2005
From: griffisb at bellsouth.net (BruceG)
Date: Mon Jan 10 13:29:07 2005
Subject: [ale] 1 gig usb drive $59
In-Reply-To: <1105379793.9392.43.camel@blue>
References: <41E2BFE4.2070101@3times25.net> <1105379793.9392.43.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <200501101325.12596.griffisb@bellsouth.net>

On Monday 10 January 2005 12:56, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-01-10 at 12:48 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> > Officemax has a 1 gig usb drive for $59, no rebate. 
>
> Wow, that is a very good price.  Last good price I saw was 512Mb for $39
> at Officemax back in Nov.
>
> Sort of makes you wonder what 1 year from now will look like wrt USB
> drives. Hmmmm

1 gig? Now I have USB drive envy, mine is only 64 meg! I wonder if I used 
Enzyte on my 64 meg drive?


From mhirsch at nubridges.com  Mon Jan 10 14:09:21 2005
From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael Hirsch)
Date: Mon Jan 10 14:09:21 2005
Subject: [ale] ALE Central Meeting, 1/13/2005
Message-ID: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF04058AFD@germanium.numethods.com>

It gives me great pleasure to announce that The ALE Central meeting on
Thursday will feature a presentation by Jim Kinney about Linux for small
businesses.
 
Thanks, Jim.
 
--Michael
 
 
Topic: Linux for the 2005 SMB Environment
Speaker: James P. Kinney III
 
Abstract:
 
Small business has always been the backbone of the US economy. As the
digital 
revolution has continued, the small business owner is faced with a
dilemma: Join 
the computerized fray or get left behind.
 
The computing needs of small business has a basic core need: Timely data
to make 
things run. The current state of Linux is well suited to meet the needs
of many 
small to mid-sized businesses. From basic server needs such file and
print 
services, web sites, email and ecommerce, to accounting application, POS
and 
CRM/ERP, Linux has a solution to fit every budget.
 
This talk will cover an overview of application that Local Net Solutions
installs
and manages for clients. Included will be a discussion of the advantages
and the 
pitfalls of the current state of applications.
 
 
James Kinney was introduced to Linux in 1993. After completing his
Masters in 
Physics from Georgia State University in 1997 he wiped Windows NT from
his hard 
drive and never looked back. Currently, James is the founder and CEO of
Local Net 
Solutions, LLC. Local Net Solutions is a consulting company specializing
in system 
administration for small to mid-size business. He takes an intense
delight in 
replacing windows machines with Linux machines.

 

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From protocoljunkie at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 14:37:27 2005
From: protocoljunkie at gmail.com (M Raju)
Date: Mon Jan 10 14:37:27 2005
Subject: [ale] Bellsouth DSL
In-Reply-To: <1105328065.3309.6.camel@blue>
References: <1105327390.3309.0.camel@blue> <1105328065.3309.6.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <64162eed050110113352f57bb9@mail.gmail.com>

Speedfactory has very little control when it comes to problems created
by BellSouth. Recently "somehow" my ADSL service got switched to
BellSouth and took Speedfactory 10 days to restore it. Of course all
my mail and other hosted material at home were off-line. My feelings
towards BellSouth -> !@#F$%^K&*!!!!! ;-)

_Raju


On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 22:34:24 -0500, Jim Popovitch <jimpop at yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 2005-01-09 at 19:49 -0500, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> > Ditto on the Speedfactory.
> 
> Speedfactory gets a lot of kudos here, but aren't they really just a
> middleman for a DSL line that goes directly from your house/business to
> BellSouth?  I understand that SF may provide some pop3/smpt/www/dns
> servers other than those provided by BS, but your next statement seems
> to suggest that you don't need these.
> 
> > I deplore any ISP that requires me to use their POP3 and SMTP servers rther
> > than my own (I use Yahoo Mail and pay for the privilege).
> 
> I use Yahoo too (obviously), so why do you need POP3 and SMTP ports open
> on your upstream network?
> 
> -Jim P.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 


-- 
May the packets be with you.


From coleman at atlanta.nsc.com  Mon Jan 10 15:03:39 2005
From: coleman at atlanta.nsc.com (Chris Coleman)
Date: Mon Jan 10 15:03:39 2005
Subject: [ale] 1GIG USB Drive
Message-ID: <41E2DEB8.6090901@atlanta.nsc.com>

http://www.officemax.com/max/solutions/product/prodBlock.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&expansionOID=-536879914&prodBlockOID=537336016




From coleman at atlanta.nsc.com  Mon Jan 10 15:11:13 2005
From: coleman at atlanta.nsc.com (Christopher Coleman)
Date: Mon Jan 10 15:11:13 2005
Subject: [SPAM] [ale] 1GIG USB Drive
In-Reply-To: <41E2DEB8.6090901@atlanta.nsc.com>
References: <41E2DEB8.6090901@atlanta.nsc.com>
Message-ID: <41E2DFA9.2060001@atlanta.nsc.com>

Chris Coleman wrote:
> http://www.officemax.com/max/solutions/product/prodBlock.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&expansionOID=-536879914&prodBlockOID=537336016 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> 
Sorry, this link may not work. Just go to www.officemax.com and scroll 
down.

-- 
Chris Coleman
National Semiconductor		Fax:   770-903-1827
500 Pinnacle Court Suite 525   	Phone:770-903-1820
Norcross, GA 30071		email: coleman at atlanta.nsc.com



From esoteric at 3times25.net  Mon Jan 10 15:38:59 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Mon Jan 10 15:38:59 2005
Subject: [ale] 1GIG USB Drive
In-Reply-To: <41E2DEB8.6090901@atlanta.nsc.com>
References: <41E2DEB8.6090901@atlanta.nsc.com>
Message-ID: <41E2E6F8.3050701@3times25.net>

Chris Coleman wrote:
> http://www.officemax.com/max/solutions/product/prodBlock.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&expansionOID=-536879914&prodBlockOID=537336016 

That's the one I got, but you'll have to pay shipping there.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From pete.hardie at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 16:17:14 2005
From: pete.hardie at gmail.com (Pete Hardie)
Date: Mon Jan 10 16:17:14 2005
Subject: [ale] 1 gig usb drive $59
In-Reply-To: <41E2BFE4.2070101@3times25.net>
References: <41E2BFE4.2070101@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <31b3224005011013135356aec5@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 12:48:20 -0500, Geoffrey <esoteric at 3times25.net> wrote:
> Officemax has a 1 gig usb drive for $59, no rebate.  Will plug directly
> into a usb, but comes with a cable as well.  Actually says it works with
>   Linux 2.4 or >.  Also has instructions for Linux.
> 
> Anyone seen a better price on such a device?

Fry's had a post-Xmas deal for $50, but they didn't last the day.

-- 
Better Living Through Bitmaps


From greg.freemyer at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 16:57:55 2005
From: greg.freemyer at gmail.com (Greg Freemyer)
Date: Mon Jan 10 16:57:55 2005
Subject: [ale] Understanding dd and/or /dev/zero
Message-ID: <87f94c37050110135459ba816b@mail.gmail.com>

I've noticed that I get a log of disk read activitity on /dev/hdc when I do 

    dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hdc

I'm using "iostat -d 5" to see the read activity, and it is really
slowing down the above.

I have no idea why there is disk read activity, and the machine is
doing nothing else.  Also if I kill the above dd, the read activity
stops.

Trying to understand it, I did an "strace dd  if=/dev/zero
of=/dev/hdc" and the initial part of the output is below.

I don't see anything overly strange, and once the repeating read/write
sequence begins it is always read /dev/zero, write /dev/hdc just as
one would expect.

Does anyone know what is causing the disk read activity?

==========>  strace of dd

execve("/bin/dd", ["dd", "if=/dev/zero", "of=/dev/hdc"], [/* 51 vars */]) = 0
uname({sys="Linux", node="Forensic-2", ...}) = 0
brk(0)                                  = 0x8050000
access("/etc/ld.so.preload", R_OK)      = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
open("/etc/ld.so.cache", O_RDONLY)      = 3
fstat64(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=76361, ...}) = 0
old_mmap(NULL, 76361, PROT_READ, MAP_PRIVATE, 3, 0) = 0x40018000
close(3)                                = 0
open("/lib/tls/libc.so.6", O_RDONLY)    = 3
read(3, "\177ELF\1\1\1\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\3\0\3\0\1\0\0\0\0L\1\000"...,
512) = 512
fstat64(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0755, st_size=1359489, ...}) = 0
old_mmap(NULL, 1137708, PROT_READ|PROT_EXEC,
MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_DENYWRITE, 3, 0) = 0x4002b000
madvise(0x4002b000, 1137708, MADV_SEQUENTIAL|0x1) = 0
mprotect(0x4013a000, 27692, PROT_NONE)  = 0
old_mmap(0x4013b000, 16384, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,
MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|MAP_DENYWRITE, 3, 0x10f000) = 0x4013b000
old_mmap(0x4013f000, 7212, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE,
MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_FIXED|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x4013f000
close(3)                                = 0
old_mmap(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS,
-1, 0) = 0x40141000
mprotect(0x4013b000, 4096, PROT_READ)   = 0
set_thread_area({entry_number:-1 -> 6, base_addr:0x40141460,
limit:1048575, seg_32bit:1, contents:0, read_exec_only:0,
limit_in_pages:1, seg_not_present:0, useable:1}) = 0
munmap(0x40018000, 76361)               = 0
brk(0)                                  = 0x8050000
brk(0x8071000)                          = 0x8071000
open("/usr/lib/locale/locale-archive", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = -1
ENOENT (No such file or directory)
open("/usr/share/locale/locale.alias", O_RDONLY) = 3
fstat64(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=2528, ...}) = 0
mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1,
0) = 0x40018000
read(3, "# Locale name alias data base.\n#"..., 4096) = 2528
read(3, "", 4096)                       = 0
close(3)                                = 0
munmap(0x40018000, 4096)                = 0
open("/usr/lib/locale/en_US.UTF-8/LC_CTYPE", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No
such file or directory)
open("/usr/lib/locale/en_US.utf8/LC_CTYPE", O_RDONLY) = 3
fstat64(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=208464, ...}) = 0
mmap2(NULL, 208464, PROT_READ, MAP_PRIVATE, 3, 0) = 0x40142000
close(3)                                = 0
open("/usr/lib/gconv/gconv-modules.cache", O_RDONLY) = 3
fstat64(3, {st_mode=S_IFREG|0644, st_size=21544, ...}) = 0
mmap2(NULL, 21544, PROT_READ, MAP_SHARED, 3, 0) = 0x40175000
close(3)                                = 0
close(0)                                = 0
open("/dev/zero", O_RDONLY|O_LARGEFILE) = 0
close(1)                                = 0
open("/dev/hdc", O_WRONLY|O_CREAT|O_TRUNC|O_LARGEFILE, 0666) = 1
rt_sigaction(SIGINT, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGINT, {0x80499f0, [], 0}, NULL, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGQUIT, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGQUIT, {0x80499f0, [], 0}, NULL, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGPIPE, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGPIPE, {0x80499f0, [], 0}, NULL, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGUSR1, NULL, {SIG_DFL}, 8) = 0
rt_sigaction(SIGUSR1, {0x80494d0, [], 0}, NULL, 8) = 0
read(0, "\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0"..., 512) = 512
write(1, "\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0"..., 512) = 512
read(0, "\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0"..., 512) = 512
write(1, "\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0"..., 512) = 512
read(0, "\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0"..., 512) = 512
write(1, "\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0"..., 512) = 512

===== end of strace

Thanks
Greg
-- 
Greg Freemyer


From habieb at myrealbox.com  Mon Jan 10 17:09:08 2005
From: habieb at myrealbox.com (H. Bieber)
Date: Mon Jan 10 17:09:08 2005
Subject: [ale] 1GB usb 
Message-ID: <1105394716.8bd72fbchabieb@myrealbox.com>

Is that an online sale only??

Harold

Registered Linux User #277269
http://counter.li.org


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Mon Jan 10 17:12:51 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Mon Jan 10 17:12:51 2005
Subject: [ale] 1GB usb
In-Reply-To: <1105394716.8bd72fbchabieb@myrealbox.com>
References: <1105394716.8bd72fbchabieb@myrealbox.com>
Message-ID: <41E2FCFB.4030800@3times25.net>

H. Bieber wrote:
> Is that an online sale only??

I picked my up at the OfficeMax in Kennesaw.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From scherrey at proteus-tech.com  Mon Jan 10 17:14:25 2005
From: scherrey at proteus-tech.com (Benjamin Scherrey)
Date: Mon Jan 10 17:14:25 2005
Subject: [ale] 1GB usb
In-Reply-To: <1105394716.8bd72fbchabieb@myrealbox.com>
References: <1105394716.8bd72fbchabieb@myrealbox.com>
Message-ID: <41E2FD52.90609@proteus-tech.com>

Nope - I went to the location near Mall of Georgia and they had them in 
stock (had to ask for it the display is empty) and I've already filled 
mine up...

    -- Ben Scherrey

H. Bieber wrote:

>Is that an online sale only??
>
>Harold
>  
>


From danscox at mindspring.com  Mon Jan 10 19:19:46 2005
From: danscox at mindspring.com (Danny Cox)
Date: Mon Jan 10 19:19:46 2005
Subject: [ale] Understanding dd and/or /dev/zero
In-Reply-To: <87f94c37050110135459ba816b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <87f94c37050110135459ba816b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1105402523.19552.1.camel@pip>

Greg,

On Mon, 2005-01-10 at 16:54 -0500, Greg Freemyer wrote:
> I've noticed that I get a log of disk read activitity on /dev/hdc when I do 
> 
>     dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hdc
> 
> I'm using "iostat -d 5" to see the read activity, and it is really
> slowing down the above.
> 
> I have no idea why there is disk read activity, and the machine is
> doing nothing else.  Also if I kill the above dd, the read activity
> stops.

	I don't know why you're seeing reads either, unless iostat is wrong, or
the kernel is.

	As another data point, try bumping up the block size of the dd like
this:

	dd bs=1024M if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hdc

and stand well back ;-).

-- 
kernel, n.: A part of an operating system that preserves the
medieval traditions of sorcery and black art.

Danny


From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Mon Jan 10 19:22:35 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Mon Jan 10 19:22:35 2005
Subject: [ale] 1GB usb
In-Reply-To: <41E2FD52.90609@proteus-tech.com>
References: <1105394716.8bd72fbchabieb@myrealbox.com>
	<41E2FD52.90609@proteus-tech.com>
Message-ID: <1105402720.4690.1314.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>

On Mon, 2005-01-10 at 17:10, Benjamin Scherrey wrote:
> Nope - I went to the location near Mall of Georgia and they had them in 
> stock (had to ask for it the display is empty) and I've already filled 
> mine up...

After you _watch_ the movie you can delete it...

Unless it's REALLY good...
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From greg.freemyer at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 19:45:51 2005
From: greg.freemyer at gmail.com (Greg Freemyer)
Date: Mon Jan 10 19:45:51 2005
Subject: [ale] Understanding dd and/or /dev/zero
In-Reply-To: <1105402523.19552.1.camel@pip>
References: <87f94c37050110135459ba816b@mail.gmail.com>
	<1105402523.19552.1.camel@pip>
Message-ID: <87f94c3705011016413c0233a1@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 19:15:23 -0500, Danny Cox <danscox at mindspring.com> wrote:
> Greg,
> 
> On Mon, 2005-01-10 at 16:54 -0500, Greg Freemyer wrote:
> > I've noticed that I get a log of disk read activitity on /dev/hdc when I do
> >
> >     dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hdc
> >
> > I'm using "iostat -d 5" to see the read activity, and it is really
> > slowing down the above.
> >
> > I have no idea why there is disk read activity, and the machine is
> > doing nothing else.  Also if I kill the above dd, the read activity
> > stops.
> 
>         I don't know why you're seeing reads either, unless iostat is wrong, or
> the kernel is.
> 
>         As another data point, try bumping up the block size of the dd like
> this:
> 
>         dd bs=1024M if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hdc
> 
> and stand well back ;-).
> 
> --
> kernel, n.: A part of an operating system that preserves the
> medieval traditions of sorcery and black art.
> 
> Danny
> 
>
Danny,

I'll do it tomorrow, but I assume you are trying to cause swapping???

i.e.  I only have 512 MB in my test machine.

Greg


From joh6nn at gmail.com  Mon Jan 10 20:04:04 2005
From: joh6nn at gmail.com (joh6nn)
Date: Mon Jan 10 20:04:04 2005
Subject: [ale] can't get software sound mixing to work
Message-ID: <7016c40405011017006eceecb7@mail.gmail.com>

hi guys, long time listener, first time caller

i'm real new to linux (real new), and i'm trying to get all settled
into a new mandrake install that my friend helped me get set up, but i
can't get multiple apps to share the sound card; as it stounds, if i'm
listening to music with xmms, all other system sounds (eg, from gaim),
get queued up, and play all at once whenever xmms stops.

i found this page here:
http://fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?s=e52d0e476651701a47d55c9ee08a91a8&t=18522

but i tried that, and it doesn't seem to have worked.

any thoughts?

background info:
Linux daedalus.joh6nn.com 2.6.3-7mdk #1 Wed Mar 17 15:56:42 CET 2004
i686 unknown unknown GNU/Linux
es1371          : Creative Labs|Sound Blaster AudioPCI64V/AudioPCI128
[MULTIMEDIA_AUDIO]


-joh6nn


From jcphil at mindspring.com  Mon Jan 10 20:08:46 2005
From: jcphil at mindspring.com (Jcphil)
Date: Mon Jan 10 20:08:46 2005
Subject: [ale] Protected message
Message-ID: <ydeoslwqaiwcnsnrrxl@ale.org>

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From danscox at mindspring.com  Mon Jan 10 21:33:27 2005
From: danscox at mindspring.com (Danny Cox)
Date: Mon Jan 10 21:33:27 2005
Subject: [ale] Understanding dd and/or /dev/zero
In-Reply-To: <87f94c3705011016413c0233a1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <87f94c37050110135459ba816b@mail.gmail.com>
	<1105402523.19552.1.camel@pip>
	<87f94c3705011016413c0233a1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1105410557.19552.10.camel@pip>

Greg,

On Mon, 2005-01-10 at 19:41 -0500, Greg Freemyer wrote:
> I'll do it tomorrow, but I assume you are trying to cause swapping???

	No, as I said, just another data point.  1 MB is lots bigger than 512,
so I thought we'd just see if it made a difference.

	In the past, I frequently used a larger block size to write to various
tape devices, and the larger a block size I can stuff down it's throat,
the faster it runs.  It can make a huge difference in copying a large
file, too.

	Thus, if there IS a difference in what iostat says during a run with a
large block size, then we might say that iostat, or where ever it's
getting it's numbers from may be wrong.

	Ah, I just had a thought.  Doesn't Linux always use a 4K page size?  In
that case, using the dd default of 512 bytes, the kernel will have to
read each page once (for 4K), in the event that you only modify part of
it, and write it back out.  That's perhaps where your reads are coming
from.  Try a 4k block size, and see if it makes a difference.

-- 
kernel, n.: A part of an operating system that preserves the
medieval traditions of sorcery and black art.

Danny


From dcorbin at machturtle.com  Mon Jan 10 22:19:30 2005
From: dcorbin at machturtle.com (David Corbin)
Date: Mon Jan 10 22:19:30 2005
Subject: [ale] Syntax for resizing photos
In-Reply-To: <41E26A19.8050103@3times25.net>
References: <1105309966.1193.13.camel@localhost>
	<1105310489.7740.17.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
	<41E26A19.8050103@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <200501102213.22648.dcorbin@machturtle.com>

On Monday 10 January 2005 06:42, Geoffrey wrote:
> Christopher Fowler wrote:
> > mkdir smaller
> > for i in *.jpg
> > do
> >   convert -resize 640x480 ${i} smaller/${i}
> > done
>
> Or, if you don't care about retaining the original images:
>
> for i in *.jpg
> do
>    convert -resize 640x480 ${i} ${i}
> done

How about to resize it "20% larger", no matter what size it is now?


From jbayes at spoo.mminternet.com  Mon Jan 10 23:21:28 2005
From: jbayes at spoo.mminternet.com (Joe Bayes)
Date: Mon Jan 10 23:21:28 2005
Subject: [ale] USB hot-unplug and Plextor DVD+-RW - FIXED
In-Reply-To: <16828.35414.62401.742412@spoo.mminternet.com>
References: <16828.35414.62401.742412@spoo.mminternet.com>
Message-ID: <16867.21340.883873.99344@spoo.mminternet.com>


In case anyone else was troubled by the same USB mass-storage bug that
I was having, there seems to be a fix in
kernel-2.6.10-1.727_FC3.i686.rpm, available in the "testing"
directory. 

My new Plextor DVD+-RW works fine now. 

Joe


--
Joe Bayes -- jbayes at spoo.mminternet.com


From jkf at wolfnet.org  Mon Jan 10 23:27:06 2005
From: jkf at wolfnet.org (Jason Fritcher)
Date: Mon Jan 10 23:27:06 2005
Subject: [ale] Understanding dd and/or /dev/zero
In-Reply-To: <1105410557.19552.10.camel@pip>
References: <87f94c37050110135459ba816b@mail.gmail.com>	<1105402523.19552.1.camel@pip>	<87f94c3705011016413c0233a1@mail.gmail.com>
	<1105410557.19552.10.camel@pip>
Message-ID: <41E35494.2@wolfnet.org>

Danny Cox wrote:
> 	No, as I said, just another data point.  1 MB is lots bigger than 512,
> so I thought we'd just see if it made a difference.

Look back at the dd command again. You put bs=1024M. Certainly alot more
than just 1 MB. :)

--
Jason Fritcher
jkf at wolfnet.org
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From audilover at speedfactory.net  Tue Jan 11 02:57:36 2005
From: audilover at speedfactory.net (Raylynn Knight)
Date: Tue Jan 11 02:57:36 2005
Subject: [ale] ale NW January meeting
In-Reply-To: <41DFF4AC.7040401@3times25.net>
References: <41DEC080.9000302@3times25.net>
	<1105164777.4495.26.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
	<41DFF4AC.7040401@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <1105424089.17328.4.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>

On Sat, 2005-01-08 at 09:56 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> Raylynn Knight wrote:
> > On Fri, 2005-01-07 at 12:01 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> > 
> >>I will not be able to attend the ALE NW meeting this month.  I do not 
> >>have a presenter as of yet either.
> >>
> >>Is there anyone who would be able to moderate the meeting this month?
> >>
> >>Is there someone who would step up to doing a presentation?
> >>
> >>If there is no presentation, it could be a generic switchboard meeting.
> >>
> >>If no one steps up to moderate the meeting, it will be canceled.
> >>
> >>Let me know ASAP?
> >>
> > 
> > I'm pretty sure I could moderate.  Any suggestions for a presentation
> > that wouldn't require a lot of preparation time?  I'd be willing to do
> > some type of presentation, but I don't have a lot of time to prepare for
> > it.
> 
> That would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> > I could cover the new installer being used by Debian Sarge.
> > I could cover installing Ubuntu Linux on a PowerPC.
> 

I'm going with installing Ubuntu Linux on a PowerPC (which sort of
covers the new Debian installer as its used by Ubuntu).  I'll have
either a Beige or B&W G3 to install on.

-- 
Raylynn Knight <audilover at speedfactory.net>


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Tue Jan 11 07:30:40 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Tue Jan 11 07:30:40 2005
Subject: [ale] Syntax for resizing photos
In-Reply-To: <200501102213.22648.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
References: <1105309966.1193.13.camel@localhost>
	<1105310489.7740.17.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
	<41E26A19.8050103@3times25.net>
	<200501102213.22648.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
Message-ID: <41E3C5E7.2000203@3times25.net>

David Corbin wrote:
> On Monday 10 January 2005 06:42, Geoffrey wrote:
> 
>>Christopher Fowler wrote:
>>
>>>mkdir smaller
>>>for i in *.jpg
>>>do
>>>  convert -resize 640x480 ${i} smaller/${i}
>>>done
>>
>>Or, if you don't care about retaining the original images:
>>
>>for i in *.jpg
>>do
>>   convert -resize 640x480 ${i} ${i}
>>done
> 
> 
> How about to resize it "20% larger", no matter what size it is now?

convert -resize 120%

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From dcorbin at machturtle.com  Tue Jan 11 07:37:02 2005
From: dcorbin at machturtle.com (David Corbin)
Date: Tue Jan 11 07:37:02 2005
Subject: [ale] Syntax for resizing photos
In-Reply-To: <41E3C5E7.2000203@3times25.net>
References: <1105309966.1193.13.camel@localhost>
	<200501102213.22648.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
	<41E3C5E7.2000203@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <200501110731.02207.dcorbin@machturtle.com>

> > How about to resize it "20% larger", no matter what size it is now?
>
> convert -resize 120%


Thanks.  I guess I might have figured that out from the cryptic man page...:)


From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Tue Jan 11 08:17:56 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Tue Jan 11 08:17:56 2005
Subject: [ale] Syntax for resizing photos
In-Reply-To: <200501102213.22648.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
References: <1105309966.1193.13.camel@localhost>
	<1105310489.7740.17.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
	<41E26A19.8050103@3times25.net>
	<200501102213.22648.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
Message-ID: <1105449235.22371.0.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>

convert -resize 120%

On Mon, 2005-01-10 at 22:13, David Corbin wrote:
> On Monday 10 January 2005 06:42, Geoffrey wrote:
> > Christopher Fowler wrote:
> > > mkdir smaller
> > > for i in *.jpg
> > > do
> > >   convert -resize 640x480 ${i} smaller/${i}
> > > done
> >
> > Or, if you don't care about retaining the original images:
> >
> > for i in *.jpg
> > do
> >    convert -resize 640x480 ${i} ${i}
> > done
> 
> How about to resize it "20% larger", no matter what size it is now?
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From brandon at geekrus.net  Tue Jan 11 09:37:29 2005
From: brandon at geekrus.net (Brandon Colbert)
Date: Tue Jan 11 09:37:29 2005
Subject: [ale] VSFTPD
Message-ID: <41E3E37F.7010405@geekrus.net>

How do I chroot everyone in vsftpd. According to what I read, you have 
to add each person to a list. I know this is possible in PureFTPD.


From brandon at geekrus.net  Tue Jan 11 09:45:42 2005
From: brandon at geekrus.net (Brandon Colbert)
Date: Tue Jan 11 09:45:42 2005
Subject: [ale] VSFTPD
Message-ID: <41E3E56B.5090308@geekrus.net>

Disregard the last message. I figured it out.


From john at turbocorp.com  Tue Jan 11 10:02:13 2005
From: john at turbocorp.com (John Allgood)
Date: Tue Jan 11 10:02:13 2005
Subject: [ale] Dual Adaptec 2200S Card on Redhat ES 3.0 x86_64
Message-ID: <41E3E98E.20306@turbocorp.com>

Hello Ale

    I have a problem that Redhat has yet to solve for me. I have a 
Opteron system running dual Adaptec 2200s card. The card on bus 0 is 
running the internal drives that contain the OS. The second card on bus 
1 has a Infostation attached. The problem is that the OS detects the 
Infostation first and labels /dev/sda on the Infostation and places 
/dev/sdh on the internal drives. I have done many things to try and 
correct the problem. I have moved cables around, played around with 
/etc/modules.conf and a couple of other things. Has anyone on the list 
got a similiar configuration and did you encounter this same problem. I 
am trying to build a cluster using the Redhat Cluster Suite. The systems 
are dual Opteron 250s, Tyan K8S Pro motherboard, Adapter 2200s 
controllers, Kingston Infostation. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

John Allgood - ESC


From coleman at atlanta.nsc.com  Tue Jan 11 10:33:34 2005
From: coleman at atlanta.nsc.com (Christopher Coleman)
Date: Tue Jan 11 10:33:34 2005
Subject: [ale] 1 gig usb drive $59
In-Reply-To: <31b3224005011013135356aec5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41E2BFE4.2070101@3times25.net>
	<31b3224005011013135356aec5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41E3F04B.7050109@atlanta.nsc.com>

Pete Hardie wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 12:48:20 -0500, Geoffrey <esoteric at 3times25.net> wrote:
> 
>>Officemax has a 1 gig usb drive for $59, no rebate.  Will plug directly
>>into a usb, but comes with a cable as well.  Actually says it works with
>>  Linux 2.4 or >.  Also has instructions for Linux.
>>
>>Anyone seen a better price on such a device?
> 
> 
> Fry's had a post-Xmas deal for $50, but they didn't last the day.
> 
There are ongoing discussions at the site listed below about this device 
and whether or not it will operate at USB 2.0 speeds. What are the 
thoughts of those that have purchased this device?

http://www.bensbargains.net/ktalk/1103852049,29498,.shtml

-- 
Chris Coleman
National Semiconductor		Fax:   770-903-1827
500 Pinnacle Court Suite 525   	Phone:770-903-1820
Norcross, GA 30071		email: coleman at atlanta.nsc.com



From dragon at atlantacon.org  Tue Jan 11 10:43:45 2005
From: dragon at atlantacon.org (Drag0n)
Date: Tue Jan 11 10:43:45 2005
Subject: [ale] Dual Adaptec 2200S Card on Redhat ES 3.0 x86_64
In-Reply-To: <41E3E98E.20306@turbocorp.com>
References: <41E3E98E.20306@turbocorp.com>
Message-ID: <41E3F2D3.9020902@atlantacon.org>

    I have had similar issues with 2 of the same cards in a system being 
recognised in different orders from the bios and kernel. I normaly turn 
off the bootable bios in the external card, that gives you the freedom 
to swap the order of the cards in the system to initialize properly. As 
the external drives won't have any OS data on them, they don't need to 
be able to load a scsi boot bios.
    Another less popular option is to boot from a floppy so it doesnt 
matter how the cards are ordered in the system.


Drag0n
dragon<at>atlacon.org


John Allgood wrote:

> Hello Ale
>
>    I have a problem that Redhat has yet to solve for me. I have a 
> Opteron system running dual Adaptec 2200s card. The card on bus 0 is 
> running the internal drives that contain the OS. The second card on 
> bus 1 has a Infostation attached. The problem is that the OS detects 
> the Infostation first and labels /dev/sda on the Infostation and 
> places /dev/sdh on the internal drives. I have done many things to try 
> and correct the problem. I have moved cables around, played around 
> with /etc/modules.conf and a couple of other things. Has anyone on the 
> list got a similiar configuration and did you encounter this same 
> problem. I am trying to build a cluster using the Redhat Cluster 
> Suite. The systems are dual Opteron 250s, Tyan K8S Pro motherboard, 
> Adapter 2200s controllers, Kingston Infostation. Any input would be 
> greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks
>
> John Allgood - ESC
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
>



From bluejay at speedfactory.net  Tue Jan 11 10:45:18 2005
From: bluejay at speedfactory.net (Jim Seymour)
Date: Tue Jan 11 10:45:18 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux router help needed......again
Message-ID: <20050111153927.GA6878@speedfactory.net>

Hi All,

General background only to shorten email. Set up a Debian Sarge box as
router for a WinXP box using dhcp3 and ipmasq for nat. Result: WinXp box
gets ip address and indicates it is connected to lan but cannot access
the internet. I have read every man I can find and have been unable to
get anywhere for days now :-( Any help or a very complete read somewhere
appreciated. Looking at the firewall it does not show any requests from
it being dropped.

Many Thanks,

Jim Seymour


From coleman at atlanta.nsc.com  Tue Jan 11 10:56:18 2005
From: coleman at atlanta.nsc.com (Christopher Coleman)
Date: Tue Jan 11 10:56:18 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux router help needed......again
In-Reply-To: <20050111153927.GA6878@speedfactory.net>
References: <20050111153927.GA6878@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <41E3F5A2.3020101@atlanta.nsc.com>

First thought: use ipconfig on the Windows box and check the settings 
assigned by the DHCP server. Make sure you have the correct subnet mask 
and default gateway settings assigned.


Jim Seymour wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> General background only to shorten email. Set up a Debian Sarge box as
> router for a WinXP box using dhcp3 and ipmasq for nat. Result: WinXp box
> gets ip address and indicates it is connected to lan but cannot access
> the internet. I have read every man I can find and have been unable to
> get anywhere for days now :-( Any help or a very complete read somewhere
> appreciated. Looking at the firewall it does not show any requests from
> it being dropped.
> 
> Many Thanks,
> 
> Jim Seymour
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> 


-- 
Chris Coleman
National Semiconductor		Fax:   770-903-1827
500 Pinnacle Court Suite 525   	Phone:770-903-1820
Norcross, GA 30071		email: coleman at atlanta.nsc.com



From Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net  Tue Jan 11 11:19:16 2005
From: Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net (Robert L. Harris)
Date: Tue Jan 11 11:19:16 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux router help needed......again
In-Reply-To: <20050111153927.GA6878@speedfactory.net>
References: <20050111153927.GA6878@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <20050111161518.GA2306@rdlg.net>



Verify the network settings and route on the windows box.

Have you verified you enabled NAT forwarding on the 
Linux box?

Can the Linux box and windows box ping each other?


Thus spake Jim Seymour (bluejay at speedfactory.net):

> Hi All,
> 
> General background only to shorten email. Set up a Debian Sarge box as
> router for a WinXP box using dhcp3 and ipmasq for nat. Result: WinXp box
> gets ip address and indicates it is connected to lan but cannot access
> the internet. I have read every man I can find and have been unable to
> get anywhere for days now :-( Any help or a very complete read somewhere
> appreciated. Looking at the firewall it does not show any requests from
> it being dropped.
> 
> Many Thanks,
> 
> Jim Seymour
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

:wq!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert L. Harris                     | GPG Key ID: E344DA3B
                                         @ x-hkp://pgp.mit.edu
DISCLAIMER:
      These are MY OPINIONS             With Dreams To Be A King,
       ALONE.  I speak for              First One Should Be A Man
       no-one else.                       - Manowar

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From james at sumners.ath.cx  Tue Jan 11 11:26:08 2005
From: james at sumners.ath.cx (james at sumners.ath.cx)
Date: Tue Jan 11 11:26:08 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux router help needed......again
In-Reply-To: <20050111153927.GA6878@speedfactory.net>
References: <20050111153927.GA6878@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <20050111162100.GK24492@sumners.ath.cx>

You may want to check out Shorewall (http://packages.debian.org/unstable/net/shorewall.html). I don't use it
myself but it is probably a good place to start.

On Tue, Jan 11, 2005 at 10:39:27AM -0500, Jim Seymour wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> General background only to shorten email. Set up a Debian Sarge box as
> router for a WinXP box using dhcp3 and ipmasq for nat. Result: WinXp box
> gets ip address and indicates it is connected to lan but cannot access
> the internet. I have read every man I can find and have been unable to
> get anywhere for days now :-( Any help or a very complete read somewhere
> appreciated. Looking at the firewall it does not show any requests from
> it being dropped.
> 
> Many Thanks,
> 
> Jim Seymour

-- 
James Sumners
http://ug.dyndns.org/~jsumners/

"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted."

Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto)
CH:D 59


From bluejay at speedfactory.net  Tue Jan 11 11:27:05 2005
From: bluejay at speedfactory.net (Jim Seymour)
Date: Tue Jan 11 11:27:05 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux router help needed......again
In-Reply-To: <41E3F5A2.3020101@atlanta.nsc.com>
References: <20050111153927.GA6878@speedfactory.net>
	<41E3F5A2.3020101@atlanta.nsc.com>
Message-ID: <20050111161826.GB6878@speedfactory.net>

On Tue, Jan 11, 2005 at 10:49:54AM -0500, Christopher Coleman wrote:
> First thought: use ipconfig on the Windows box and check the settings 
> assigned by the DHCP server. Make sure you have the correct subnet mask 
> and default gateway settings assigned.
> 
> 
> Jim Seymour wrote:
> >Hi All,
> >
> >General background only to shorten email. Set up a Debian Sarge box as
> >router for a WinXP box using dhcp3 and ipmasq for nat. Result: WinXp box
> >gets ip address and indicates it is connected to lan but cannot access
> >the internet. I have read every man I can find and have been unable to
> >get anywhere for days now :-( Any help or a very complete read somewhere
> >appreciated. Looking at the firewall it does not show any requests from
> >it being dropped.
> >
>

Thanks Chris,

Connection-specific DNS Suffix	:
IP Address			:192.168.7.20
Subnet Mask			:255.255.255.0
Default Gateway			:

I looked at my dhcpd.conf file and couldn't see any reference to setting
the gateway address in the examples. Could the problem be in another
place?

Thanks,

Jim Seymour


From coleman at atlanta.nsc.com  Tue Jan 11 11:41:39 2005
From: coleman at atlanta.nsc.com (Christopher Coleman)
Date: Tue Jan 11 11:41:39 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux router help needed......again
In-Reply-To: <20050111161826.GB6878@speedfactory.net>
References: <20050111153927.GA6878@speedfactory.net>
	<41E3F5A2.3020101@atlanta.nsc.com>
	<20050111161826.GB6878@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <41E3FFF5.30700@atlanta.nsc.com>

In the config file you add the following line:

option router 192.168.1.1

Replace the IP address with the actual address of your gateway.


Jim Seymour wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 11, 2005 at 10:49:54AM -0500, Christopher Coleman wrote:
> 
>>First thought: use ipconfig on the Windows box and check the settings 
>>assigned by the DHCP server. Make sure you have the correct subnet mask 
>>and default gateway settings assigned.
>>
>>



-- 
Chris Coleman
National Semiconductor		Fax:   770-903-1827
500 Pinnacle Court Suite 525   	Phone:770-903-1820
Norcross, GA 30071		email: coleman at atlanta.nsc.com



From jkf at wolfnet.org  Tue Jan 11 11:42:41 2005
From: jkf at wolfnet.org (Jason Fritcher)
Date: Tue Jan 11 11:42:41 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux router help needed......again
In-Reply-To: <20050111161826.GB6878@speedfactory.net>
References: <20050111153927.GA6878@speedfactory.net>	<41E3F5A2.3020101@atlanta.nsc.com>
	<20050111161826.GB6878@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <41E400A8.3000504@wolfnet.org>

Jim Seymour wrote:
> I looked at my dhcpd.conf file and couldn't see any reference to setting
> the gateway address in the examples. Could the problem be in another
> place?

In your subnet declaration, add the following...

option routers <router ip address>;

--
Jason Fritcher
jkf at wolfnet.org
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From coleman at atlanta.nsc.com  Tue Jan 11 11:44:03 2005
From: coleman at atlanta.nsc.com (Christopher Coleman)
Date: Tue Jan 11 11:44:03 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux router help needed......again
In-Reply-To: <20050111161826.GB6878@speedfactory.net>
References: <20050111153927.GA6878@speedfactory.net>
	<41E3F5A2.3020101@atlanta.nsc.com>
	<20050111161826.GB6878@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <41E40036.8050904@atlanta.nsc.com>

I forgot the semicolon on the end of the line.

option router 192.168.1.1;

-- 
Chris Coleman
National Semiconductor		Fax:   770-903-1827
500 Pinnacle Court Suite 525   	Phone:770-903-1820
Norcross, GA 30071		email: coleman at atlanta.nsc.com



From brandon at geekrus.net  Tue Jan 11 11:44:59 2005
From: brandon at geekrus.net (Brandon Colbert)
Date: Tue Jan 11 11:44:59 2005
Subject: [ale] VSFTPD Virtual users
Message-ID: <41E4011D.9070604@geekrus.net>

How do I setup virtual users in vsftpd?


From coleman at atlanta.nsc.com  Tue Jan 11 11:45:39 2005
From: coleman at atlanta.nsc.com (Christopher Coleman)
Date: Tue Jan 11 11:45:39 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux router help needed......again
In-Reply-To: <20050111161826.GB6878@speedfactory.net>
References: <20050111153927.GA6878@speedfactory.net>
	<41E3F5A2.3020101@atlanta.nsc.com>
	<20050111161826.GB6878@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <41E400BB.9060709@atlanta.nsc.com>

The command: man dhcpd.conf will give you what you need. You can assign 
DNS server addresses, domain name, etc.


-- 
Chris Coleman
National Semiconductor		Fax:   770-903-1827
500 Pinnacle Court Suite 525   	Phone:770-903-1820
Norcross, GA 30071		email: coleman at atlanta.nsc.com



From wormfishin at gmail.com  Tue Jan 11 11:48:56 2005
From: wormfishin at gmail.com (Nick Travis)
Date: Tue Jan 11 11:48:56 2005
Subject: [ale] Comprimised System
Message-ID: <acb6c44105011108455dd765ad@mail.gmail.com>

We have a system at work that has been comprimised.  It looks like
they got in and used several different executable files, I've got the
command history however I don't think it is complete.  For example I
see that direcotories were created, but I never saw that they were
removed and I can't find them.  It looks like about 5 ftp sites were
hit and there was about 3 wget commands to pull down files.  Also
apache was downloaded and installed, even though it was already
running on the system.  So here's my question, I know that rebuilding
the system is the only way to be sure that there is nothing else
hidden on it, but that's not an option at this point.  Are there any
good HowTo's or books out there that can give me some direction on how
to check they system for irregularites?  This is the first time I've
dealt with this so I would like to learn as much as I can about it,
I've already determined how they got in.  A user made thier password
the same as thier login name, which obviously is no longer allowed. 
BTW the system is running Red Hat 7.3.

Nick


From scottm at noesisopen.com  Tue Jan 11 11:49:43 2005
From: scottm at noesisopen.com (Scott A. Martin)
Date: Tue Jan 11 11:49:43 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux router help needed......again
In-Reply-To: <20050111161826.GB6878@speedfactory.net>
References: <20050111153927.GA6878@speedfactory.net>
	<41E3F5A2.3020101@atlanta.nsc.com>
	<20050111161826.GB6878@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <1105461917.3948.18.camel@open.office.noesisopen.com>

Jim,

Add a line with the IP address of the Linux box to your dhcpd.conf
within the subnet declaration block:

option routers 192.168.7.xx;

I notice someone else suggested same but with the word "router" vs. the
plural "routers".  The man page for dhcpd.conf shows it plural; I have
no idea if it matters.

Scott

On Tue, 2005-01-11 at 11:18 -0500, Jim Seymour wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 11, 2005 at 10:49:54AM -0500, Christopher Coleman wrote:
> > First thought: use ipconfig on the Windows box and check the settings 
> > assigned by the DHCP server. Make sure you have the correct subnet mask 
> > and default gateway settings assigned.
> > 
> > 
> > Jim Seymour wrote:
> > >Hi All,
> > >
> > >General background only to shorten email. Set up a Debian Sarge box as
> > >router for a WinXP box using dhcp3 and ipmasq for nat. Result: WinXp box
> > >gets ip address and indicates it is connected to lan but cannot access
> > >the internet. I have read every man I can find and have been unable to
> > >get anywhere for days now :-( Any help or a very complete read somewhere
> > >appreciated. Looking at the firewall it does not show any requests from
> > >it being dropped.
> > >
> >
> 
> Thanks Chris,
> 
> Connection-specific DNS Suffix	:
> IP Address			:192.168.7.20
> Subnet Mask			:255.255.255.0
> Default Gateway			:
> 
> I looked at my dhcpd.conf file and couldn't see any reference to setting
> the gateway address in the examples. Could the problem be in another
> place?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jim Seymour
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
-- 
Scott A. Martin <scottm at noesisopen.com>
NOESIS Open Systems


From wormfishin at gmail.com  Tue Jan 11 11:50:14 2005
From: wormfishin at gmail.com (Nick Travis)
Date: Tue Jan 11 11:50:14 2005
Subject: [ale] Compromised System
Message-ID: <acb6c441050111084656da85f9@mail.gmail.com>

We have a system at work that has been compromised.  It looks like
they got in and used several different executable files, I've got the
command history however I don't think it is complete.  For example I
see that directories were created, but I never saw that they were
removed and I can't find them.  It looks like about 5 ftp sites were
hit and there was about 3 wget commands to pull down files.  Also
apache was downloaded and installed, even though it was already
running on the system.  So here's my question, I know that rebuilding
the system is the only way to be sure that there is nothing else
hidden on it, but that's not an option at this point.  Are there any
good HowTo's or books out there that can give me some direction on how
to check they system for irregularities?  This is the first time I've
dealt with this so I would like to learn as much as I can about it,
I've already determined how they got in.  A user made their password
the same as their login name, which obviously is no longer allowed.
BTW the system is running Red Hat 7.3.

Nick


From john at turbocorp.com  Tue Jan 11 11:59:49 2005
From: john at turbocorp.com (John Allgood)
Date: Tue Jan 11 11:59:49 2005
Subject: [ale] Dual Adaptec 2200S Card on Redhat ES 3.0 x86_64
In-Reply-To: <41E3F2D3.9020902@atlantacon.org>
References: <41E3E98E.20306@turbocorp.com> <41E3F2D3.9020902@atlantacon.org>
Message-ID: <41E4051E.6080906@turbocorp.com>

I thought I had already done that. As many things I have tried I will do 
that again. I think I tried swapping the cables around and I couldn't 
get the sytem to boot. I may try to reload after I switch the cables 
around and turn off BBS Support on the external cards. Thanks.

Drag0n wrote:
>    I have had similar issues with 2 of the same cards in a system 
> being recognised in different orders from the bios and kernel. I 
> normaly turn off the bootable bios in the external card, that gives 
> you the freedom to swap the order of the cards in the system to 
> initialize properly. As the external drives won't have any OS data on 
> them, they don't need to be able to load a scsi boot bios.
>    Another less popular option is to boot from a floppy so it doesnt 
> matter how the cards are ordered in the system.
>
>
> Drag0n
> dragon<at>atlacon.org
>
>
> John Allgood wrote:
>
>> Hello Ale
>>
>>    I have a problem that Redhat has yet to solve for me. I have a 
>> Opteron system running dual Adaptec 2200s card. The card on bus 0 is 
>> running the internal drives that contain the OS. The second card on 
>> bus 1 has a Infostation attached. The problem is that the OS detects 
>> the Infostation first and labels /dev/sda on the Infostation and 
>> places /dev/sdh on the internal drives. I have done many things to 
>> try and correct the problem. I have moved cables around, played 
>> around with /etc/modules.conf and a couple of other things. Has 
>> anyone on the list got a similiar configuration and did you encounter 
>> this same problem. I am trying to build a cluster using the Redhat 
>> Cluster Suite. The systems are dual Opteron 250s, Tyan K8S Pro 
>> motherboard, Adapter 2200s controllers, Kingston Infostation. Any 
>> input would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> John Allgood - ESC
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ale mailing list
>> Ale at ale.org
>> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>


From Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net  Tue Jan 11 12:14:06 2005
From: Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net (Robert L. Harris)
Date: Tue Jan 11 12:14:06 2005
Subject: [ale] Comprimised System
In-Reply-To: <acb6c44105011108455dd765ad@mail.gmail.com>
References: <acb6c44105011108455dd765ad@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050111171008.GC2306@rdlg.net>



Pull the hard drives out and put htem on a shelf.  Rebuild off new
drives so you can do a post-mortem.  Then when you can image the hard
drives and mount the images loopback, read only so you don't accidently 
modify them or run something in $PATH.  Now you can use "find" to find
the directories you're looking for as well as some other tools.  You can
also look at:

http://odessa.sourceforge.net/
http://www.sleuthkit.org/sleuthkit/desc.php

Both are good forensics tools.




Thus spake Nick Travis (wormfishin at gmail.com):

> We have a system at work that has been comprimised.  It looks like
> they got in and used several different executable files, I've got the
> command history however I don't think it is complete.  For example I
> see that direcotories were created, but I never saw that they were
> removed and I can't find them.  It looks like about 5 ftp sites were
> hit and there was about 3 wget commands to pull down files.  Also
> apache was downloaded and installed, even though it was already
> running on the system.  So here's my question, I know that rebuilding
> the system is the only way to be sure that there is nothing else
> hidden on it, but that's not an option at this point.  Are there any
> good HowTo's or books out there that can give me some direction on how
> to check they system for irregularites?  This is the first time I've
> dealt with this so I would like to learn as much as I can about it,
> I've already determined how they got in.  A user made thier password
> the same as thier login name, which obviously is no longer allowed. 
> BTW the system is running Red Hat 7.3.
> 
> Nick
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

:wq!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert L. Harris                     | GPG Key ID: E344DA3B
                                         @ x-hkp://pgp.mit.edu
DISCLAIMER:
      These are MY OPINIONS             With Dreams To Be A King,
       ALONE.  I speak for              First One Should Be A Man
       no-one else.                       - Manowar

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From retief at larp.com  Tue Jan 11 12:26:51 2005
From: retief at larp.com (Jay Finch)
Date: Tue Jan 11 12:26:51 2005
Subject: [ale] Comprimised System
In-Reply-To: <acb6c44105011108455dd765ad@mail.gmail.com>
References: <acb6c44105011108455dd765ad@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <17159.24.248.74.254.1105464180.squirrel@24.248.74.254>

Hi Nick!

Having dealt with having my system compromised (in one form or another) 5
times in the last 5 years, I can offer some advice:

After having looked everywhere, and trying to find something that would
remove rootkits & restore a system's integrity, the only viable solution
is to reinstall.  (I've spent hours and hours looking over all the
Security websites, all the Rootkit websites, etc.)

The problem resides in the fact that because most rootkitters are smart
enough to tamper or remove logs/logging, so you can never really be sure
of WHICH programs have been tampered with - And that (potentially) keeps
you open for continued or future exploits.

-----

Now with that said, I don't know if upgrading your machine from RH 7.3 to
Enterprise would overwrite/replace the compromised files, as well as
securing your machine.  I never tried that path honestly.

-----

Bob Toxen, who is a regular reader of this list, might be able to chime in
and provide some assistance.  I believe his website is:
http://www.verysecurelinux.com/

-----

I hope your situation gets better, and if you need someone to commiserate
with, feel free to contact me. :~)

Cheers!
Jay



> We have a system at work that has been comprimised.  It looks like
> they got in and used several different executable files, I've got the
> command history however I don't think it is complete.  For example I
> see that direcotories were created, but I never saw that they were
> removed and I can't find them.  It looks like about 5 ftp sites were
> hit and there was about 3 wget commands to pull down files.  Also
> apache was downloaded and installed, even though it was already
> running on the system.  So here's my question, I know that rebuilding
> the system is the only way to be sure that there is nothing else
> hidden on it, but that's not an option at this point.  Are there any
> good HowTo's or books out there that can give me some direction on how
> to check they system for irregularites?  This is the first time I've
> dealt with this so I would like to learn as much as I can about it,
> I've already determined how they got in.  A user made thier password
> the same as thier login name, which obviously is no longer allowed.
> BTW the system is running Red Hat 7.3.
>
> Nick
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>



From david.muse at firstworks.com  Tue Jan 11 12:35:53 2005
From: david.muse at firstworks.com (David Muse)
Date: Tue Jan 11 12:35:53 2005
Subject: [ale] Comprimised System
In-Reply-To: <acb6c44105011108455dd765ad@mail.gmail.com>
References: <acb6c44105011108455dd765ad@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050111123156.098eb0e6@neptune.4accesscommunications.com>

I've been hacked a couple of times and here's what I always did...

Start by booting to the installation disk in rescue mode, mount your
root partition and re-install RPM using the following rpm command:

(You may have to use mkdev to make device nodes for your primary hard
drive and it's partitions and mkdir to make a mount point before you
mount it. I don't remember if you do or not for Redhat 7.x.)

rpm -i --force --root /mnt/myrootpartition rpm-x.x-x.rpm

Substitute /mnt/myrootpartition with the mount point of your root
partition and substitute rpm-x.x-x.rpm with the actual name of the rpm
packages.  Do this for all of the rpm packages.  This will ensure that
you have an unhacked version of rpm on your system.

This assumes that rpm hasn't been upgraded since you first installed the
system.  If it has, you'll have to get a hold of the new rpm's, put them
on a floppy or a second CD, mount it somehow and install from there. 
This can be tricky, another option is to copy the install CD to the hard
drive on a different computer, replace the rpm RPM's and then burn a new
install CD.

Whatever you do, don't just re-install rpm using the normally booted
system, you can't trust the version of rpm that's on there, it may
detect that you're trying to re-install rpm and preserve itself.

Once you have a clean rpm installation, reboot and run:
	rpm --verify --all

It will report any file that has been modified from it's distributed
form.  Some of those, of course will be config files, but you may find
that system utilities(like ps, ls, du, df, netstat, etc) have been
modified. You can restore them by getting the original RPM and
installing it using rpm-i --force.

Once you have restored your system tools, you can trust their output. 
You know, for example that ps will report all processes and not hide
any.

Then you can use the system tools like ps, du, netstat, lsof, etc. to
look for renegade processes.

Unfortunately you'll have to examine all of the config files that have
been modified too.  You might find new cron's that are set up to run
periodically, new xinetd programs, etc.

You'll also have to compare any custom software to backups to make sure
none of it was compromised.  diff --unified --recursive can help here.

If you know the system well (ie. if you configured all of the programs
that run on it) then you should be able to figure out what all has been
cracked pretty quickly.  If not, then you'll have a lot of fun digging
around.  Sorry, I wish it was easier.

As for prevention, there are several useful intrusion detection tools. 
Tripwire is pretty commonly used.  If you have a large network,
contract security specialists can be really helpful.

Dave Muse
david.muse at firstworks.com

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 11:45:06 -0500
Nick Travis <wormfishin at gmail.com> wrote:

> We have a system at work that has been comprimised.  It looks like
> they got in and used several different executable files, I've got the
> command history however I don't think it is complete.  For example I
> see that direcotories were created, but I never saw that they were
> removed and I can't find them.  It looks like about 5 ftp sites were
> hit and there was about 3 wget commands to pull down files.  Also
> apache was downloaded and installed, even though it was already
> running on the system.  So here's my question, I know that rebuilding
> the system is the only way to be sure that there is nothing else
> hidden on it, but that's not an option at this point.  Are there any
> good HowTo's or books out there that can give me some direction on how
> to check they system for irregularites?  This is the first time I've
> dealt with this so I would like to learn as much as I can about it,
> I've already determined how they got in.  A user made thier password
> the same as thier login name, which obviously is no longer allowed. 
> BTW the system is running Red Hat 7.3.
> 
> Nick
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 


From dragon at atlantacon.org  Tue Jan 11 12:40:59 2005
From: dragon at atlantacon.org (Drag0n)
Date: Tue Jan 11 12:40:59 2005
Subject: [ale] Dual Adaptec 2200S Card on Redhat ES 3.0 x86_64
In-Reply-To: <41E4051E.6080906@turbocorp.com>
References: <41E3E98E.20306@turbocorp.com> <41E3F2D3.9020902@atlantacon.org>
	<41E4051E.6080906@turbocorp.com>
Message-ID: <41E40EC0.3030701@atlantacon.org>

Are these onboard cards, or pci cards? If its onboard, then you are 
limited to how it will boot and recognise the cards. Swaping the cables 
may not work, and also may require a rebuild. Adaptec bios should have 
an option to  set the boot channel/card, if they are on board, if they 
are pci, then it should be easy to turn off loading the scsi bios.


Drag0n
dragon<at>atlantacon.org

John Allgood wrote:

> I thought I had already done that. As many things I have tried I will 
> do that again. I think I tried swapping the cables around and I 
> couldn't get the sytem to boot. I may try to reload after I switch the 
> cables around and turn off BBS Support on the external cards. Thanks.
>
> Drag0n wrote:
>
>>    I have had similar issues with 2 of the same cards in a system 
>> being recognised in different orders from the bios and kernel. I 
>> normaly turn off the bootable bios in the external card, that gives 
>> you the freedom to swap the order of the cards in the system to 
>> initialize properly. As the external drives won't have any OS data on 
>> them, they don't need to be able to load a scsi boot bios.
>>    Another less popular option is to boot from a floppy so it doesnt 
>> matter how the cards are ordered in the system.
>>
>>
>> Drag0n
>> dragon<at>atlacon.org
>>
>>
>> John Allgood wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Ale
>>>
>>>    I have a problem that Redhat has yet to solve for me. I have a 
>>> Opteron system running dual Adaptec 2200s card. The card on bus 0 is 
>>> running the internal drives that contain the OS. The second card on 
>>> bus 1 has a Infostation attached. The problem is that the OS detects 
>>> the Infostation first and labels /dev/sda on the Infostation and 
>>> places /dev/sdh on the internal drives. I have done many things to 
>>> try and correct the problem. I have moved cables around, played 
>>> around with /etc/modules.conf and a couple of other things. Has 
>>> anyone on the list got a similiar configuration and did you 
>>> encounter this same problem. I am trying to build a cluster using 
>>> the Redhat Cluster Suite. The systems are dual Opteron 250s, Tyan 
>>> K8S Pro motherboard, Adapter 2200s controllers, Kingston 
>>> Infostation. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> John Allgood - ESC
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Ale mailing list
>>> Ale at ale.org
>>> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ale mailing list
>> Ale at ale.org
>> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
>



From attriel at d20boards.net  Tue Jan 11 12:44:32 2005
From: attriel at d20boards.net (attriel)
Date: Tue Jan 11 12:44:32 2005
Subject: [ale] Compromised System
In-Reply-To: <acb6c441050111084656da85f9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <acb6c441050111084656da85f9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52292.66.93.55.216.1105465485.squirrel@mail.d20boards.net>

> We have a system at work that has been compromised.  It looks like
> they got in and used several different executable files, I've got the
> command history however I don't think it is complete.  For example I
> see that directories were created, but I never saw that they were
> removed and I can't find them.  It looks like about 5 ftp sites were
> hit and there was about 3 wget commands to pull down files.  Also
> apache was downloaded and installed, even though it was already
> running on the system.  So here's my question, I know that rebuilding
> the system is the only way to be sure that there is nothing else
> hidden on it, but that's not an option at this point.  Are there any
> good HowTo's or books out there that can give me some direction on how
> to check they system for irregularities?  This is the first time I've
> dealt with this so I would like to learn as much as I can about it,
> I've already determined how they got in.  A user made their password
> the same as their login name, which obviously is no longer allowed.
> BTW the system is running Red Hat 7.3.

(1) You REALLY want to do the scorched earth route.  It's the only way to
be sure

(2) If you can get static compiles of ls, ps and chkrootkit (or however
that tool is spelled), built on a SEPERATE machine, you can try to look. 
BUT!  That won't garauntee, it'll just help you find things.

Common rootkits, last I looked, put in hacked versions of ls (to not show
their secret dirs), ps (to not show their secret listeners), netstat (to
not show their open ports), iptables (to not tell you it's open), etc. 
more, less are modified to show archived versions of files rather than the
new (hacked) versions, etc, etc, etc.

Some of the newer ones/active attackers put in silent kernel modules
(which won't show up on the hacked ls, and won't show up on the hacked
lsmod, depmod, or rmmod).  No way to be sure about the kernel mod, really.
 My vital servers have started running without loadable modules, now, to
tighten that up.

Your user should not be allowed back on the server.  You WANT to rebuild
it, or you ARE still compromised.

Run crack (or whatever the latest password checkers are), see if anyone
else has bad passwords.  Run them regularly, to see if someone MAKES one.

If you got hit by a scriptkiddie, you might be able to recover and be OK
until you can do a rebuild next week.  If you got hit by a real attack,
and they're competent, you're unlikely to find all the bits.

--attriel


From greg.freemyer at gmail.com  Tue Jan 11 12:58:03 2005
From: greg.freemyer at gmail.com (Greg Freemyer)
Date: Tue Jan 11 12:58:03 2005
Subject: [ale] Understanding dd and/or /dev/zero
In-Reply-To: <1105410557.19552.10.camel@pip>
References: <87f94c37050110135459ba816b@mail.gmail.com>
	<1105402523.19552.1.camel@pip>
	<87f94c3705011016413c0233a1@mail.gmail.com>
	<1105410557.19552.10.camel@pip>
Message-ID: <87f94c3705011109537105c90e@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 21:29:17 -0500, Danny Cox <danscox at mindspring.com> wrote:
> Greg,
> 
> On Mon, 2005-01-10 at 19:41 -0500, Greg Freemyer wrote:
> > I'll do it tomorrow, but I assume you are trying to cause swapping???
> 
>         No, as I said, just another data point.  1 MB is lots bigger than 512,
> so I thought we'd just see if it made a difference.
> 
>         In the past, I frequently used a larger block size to write to various
> tape devices, and the larger a block size I can stuff down it's throat,
> the faster it runs.  It can make a huge difference in copying a large
> file, too.
> 
>         Thus, if there IS a difference in what iostat says during a run with a
> large block size, then we might say that iostat, or where ever it's
> getting it's numbers from may be wrong.
> 
>         Ah, I just had a thought.  Doesn't Linux always use a 4K page size?  In
> that case, using the dd default of 512 bytes, the kernel will have to
> read each page once (for 4K), in the event that you only modify part of
> it, and write it back out.  That's perhaps where your reads are coming
> from.  Try a 4k block size, and see if it makes a difference.
> 
> --
> kernel, n.: A part of an operating system that preserves the
> medieval traditions of sorcery and black art.
> 
> Danny
Danny

Thanks,

You got it right.

WIth 512 byte blocks, I'm seing 30,000 reads/sec and 30,000 writes/sec.

With 4K byte blocks, I'm seeing only writes at 75,000 512 byte blocks/sec

With 1M byte blocks, I'm seeing 100,000 512 byte blocks/sec.

That comes out to 3 GB/min, which is where I was hoping to get.

Greg
-- 
Greg Freemyer


From jrickman at gmail.com  Tue Jan 11 13:29:38 2005
From: jrickman at gmail.com (Jonathan Rickman)
Date: Tue Jan 11 13:29:38 2005
Subject: [ale] Compromised System
In-Reply-To: <acb6c441050111084656da85f9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <acb6c441050111084656da85f9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2802c52205011110257e54e218@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 11:46:24 -0500, Nick Travis <wormfishin at gmail.com> wrote:
> We have a system at work that has been compromised.  It looks like
> they got in and used several different executable files, I've got the
> command history however I don't think it is complete.  For example I
> see that directories were created, but I never saw that they were
> removed and I can't find them.  It looks like about 5 ftp sites were
> hit and there was about 3 wget commands to pull down files.  Also
> apache was downloaded and installed, even though it was already
> running on the system.  So here's my question, I know that rebuilding
> the system is the only way to be sure that there is nothing else
> hidden on it, but that's not an option at this point.  Are there any
> good HowTo's or books out there that can give me some direction on how
> to check they system for irregularities?  This is the first time I've
> dealt with this so I would like to learn as much as I can about it,
> I've already determined how they got in.  A user made their password
> the same as their login name, which obviously is no longer allowed.
> BTW the system is running Red Hat 7.3.

I think you have answered your own question there, and I'm sure you
know that already. If an intruder was actually able to execute
commands from a shell on your system, it can't be trusted...period. If
you absolutely have to leave it up, you should at least run chkrootkit
on it along with any sig checks (if you have them). Then it should be
surrounded by packet filters immediately. However, you should take no
feeling of comfort away from this no matter the result. You should
image the system for recovery purposes and wipe it as soon as you
possibly can. Prolonging the inevitable only leads to more problems.

--
Jonathan


From bluejay at speedfactory.net  Tue Jan 11 13:48:28 2005
From: bluejay at speedfactory.net (Jim Seymour)
Date: Tue Jan 11 13:48:28 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux router help needed......again
In-Reply-To: <20050111161518.GA2306@rdlg.net>
References: <20050111153927.GA6878@speedfactory.net>
	<20050111161518.GA2306@rdlg.net>
Message-ID: <20050111184157.GC6878@speedfactory.net>

On Tue, Jan 11, 2005 at 11:15:18AM -0500, Robert L. Harris wrote:
> 
> 
> Verify the network settings and route on the windows box.
> 
> Have you verified you enabled NAT forwarding on the 
> Linux box?
> 
> Can the Linux box and windows box ping each other?
> 
>
Hi Robert,

The WinXp box can ping the Linux box however the Linux box cannot ping
the WinXp box. From this I assume I have a routing problem on the Linux
box. My routing table is:


Kernel IP routing table
Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags   MSS Window  irtt Iface
66-23-230-1.cli *               255.255.255.255 UH        0 0          0 ppp0
192.168.7.0     *               255.255.255.0   U         0 0          0 eth1
default         66-23-230-1.cli 0.0.0.0         UG        0 0          0 ppp0

I am running pppoe on ethO to connect to Speed Factory DSL. Ideas???

Thanks,

Jim Seymour


From jbaldwin at antinode.net  Tue Jan 11 13:52:05 2005
From: jbaldwin at antinode.net (James Baldwin)
Date: Tue Jan 11 13:52:05 2005
Subject: [ale] Compromised System
In-Reply-To: <acb6c441050111084656da85f9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <acb6c441050111084656da85f9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52DFF204-6401-11D9-B251-000D93C280F2@antinode.net>

Forensic Analysis of a Live Linux System, Part One
http://www.securityfocus.com/infocus/1769

Forensic Analysis of a Live Linux System, Part Two
http://www.securityfocus.com/infocus/1773

Further reading at SecurityFocus under the Incidents tab is probably 
pertinent.
---
James Baldwin
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From jasonday at worldnet.att.net  Tue Jan 11 13:52:44 2005
From: jasonday at worldnet.att.net (Jason Day)
Date: Tue Jan 11 13:52:44 2005
Subject: [ale] Comprimised System
In-Reply-To: <20050111123156.098eb0e6@neptune.4accesscommunications.com>
References: <acb6c44105011108455dd765ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050111123156.098eb0e6@neptune.4accesscommunications.com>
Message-ID: <20050111184850.GR7913@worldnet.att.net>

On Tue, Jan 11, 2005 at 12:31:56PM -0500, David Muse wrote:
[snip]

> Once you have a clean rpm installation, reboot and run:
> 	rpm --verify --all
> 
> It will report any file that has been modified from it's distributed
> form.

Unless the rootkit author modified the boot process to check that the
installed rpm is the "correct" one at boot, and if not, either restore
the cracked version or do nasty things to the system.

[snip]

> Once you have restored your system tools, you can trust their output. 
> You know, for example that ps will report all processes and not hide
> any.

Unless the rootkit author installed a process that periodically checks
that the installed system tools are the "correct" ones.  Or installed a
kernel module that leaves the system tools intact, but intercepts some
choice syscalls and returns bogus values.

NEVER assume that the attacker is not smarter than you are, or that you
can think of everything the attacker might have done.  As others have
said, the only way to be sure you've disinfected a system is to do a
complete wipe and rebuild, or swap the drives.  You're really taking a
risk if you don't.  If a rebuild is really not an option right now,
you'll just have to weigh the risks.  But keep in mind, if the attacker
thinks you're onto him, he may decide to cover his tracks by simply
deleting everything on the disks.  This happened to me once.

Jason
-- 
Jason Day                                       jasonday at
http://jasonday.home.att.net                    worldnet dot att dot net
 
"Of course I'm paranoid, everyone is trying to kill me."
    -- Weyoun-6, Star Trek: Deep Space 9


From Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net  Tue Jan 11 14:00:55 2005
From: Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net (Robert L. Harris)
Date: Tue Jan 11 14:00:55 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux router help needed......again
In-Reply-To: <20050111184157.GC6878@speedfactory.net>
References: <20050111153927.GA6878@speedfactory.net>
	<20050111161518.GA2306@rdlg.net>
	<20050111184157.GC6878@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <20050111185705.GE2306@rdlg.net>



Give me the output of a "ip route" from the linux box.  You have the
192.168.7.0 pointing at eth1.  What IP is the windows box getting and
is it off eth0 or eth1?


Thus spake Jim Seymour (bluejay at speedfactory.net):

> On Tue, Jan 11, 2005 at 11:15:18AM -0500, Robert L. Harris wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Verify the network settings and route on the windows box.
> > 
> > Have you verified you enabled NAT forwarding on the 
> > Linux box?
> > 
> > Can the Linux box and windows box ping each other?
> > 
> >
> Hi Robert,
> 
> The WinXp box can ping the Linux box however the Linux box cannot ping
> the WinXp box. From this I assume I have a routing problem on the Linux
> box. My routing table is:
> 
> 
> Kernel IP routing table
> Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags   MSS Window  irtt Iface
> 66-23-230-1.cli *               255.255.255.255 UH        0 0          0 ppp0
> 192.168.7.0     *               255.255.255.0   U         0 0          0 eth1
> default         66-23-230-1.cli 0.0.0.0         UG        0 0          0 ppp0
> 
> I am running pppoe on ethO to connect to Speed Factory DSL. Ideas???
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jim Seymour
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

:wq!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert L. Harris                     | GPG Key ID: E344DA3B
                                         @ x-hkp://pgp.mit.edu
DISCLAIMER:
      These are MY OPINIONS             With Dreams To Be A King,
       ALONE.  I speak for              First One Should Be A Man
       no-one else.                       - Manowar

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From james at sumners.ath.cx  Tue Jan 11 14:05:47 2005
From: james at sumners.ath.cx (james at sumners.ath.cx)
Date: Tue Jan 11 14:05:47 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux router help needed......again
In-Reply-To: <20050111184157.GC6878@speedfactory.net>
References: <20050111153927.GA6878@speedfactory.net>
	<20050111161518.GA2306@rdlg.net>
	<20050111184157.GC6878@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <20050111190157.GL24492@sumners.ath.cx>

That looks apropriate. What is the IP address assigned to eth1 and what
range is the dhcp daemon assigning?

On Tue, Jan 11, 2005 at 01:41:57PM -0500, Jim Seymour wrote:
>My routing table is:
> 
> Kernel IP routing table
> Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags   MSS Window  irtt Iface
> 66-23-230-1.cli *               255.255.255.255 UH        0 0          0 ppp0
> 192.168.7.0     *               255.255.255.0   U         0 0          0 eth1
> default         66-23-230-1.cli 0.0.0.0         UG        0 0          0 ppp0

-- 
James Sumners
http://ug.dyndns.org/~jsumners/

"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted."

Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto)
CH:D 59


From mhirsch at nubridges.com  Tue Jan 11 14:10:00 2005
From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael Hirsch)
Date: Tue Jan 11 14:10:00 2005
Subject: [ale] can't get software sound mixing to work
Message-ID: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF04058C88@germanium.numethods.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
joh6nn
> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 8:00 PM
> To: ale at ale.org
> Subject: [ale] can't get software sound mixing to work
> 
> hi guys, long time listener, first time caller
> 
> i'm real new to linux (real new), and i'm trying to get all settled
> into a new mandrake install that my friend helped me get set up, but i
> can't get multiple apps to share the sound card; as it stounds, if i'm
> listening to music with xmms, all other system sounds (eg, from gaim),
> get queued up, and play all at once whenever xmms stops.

Are you using KDE (Mandrake default) or GNOME?  KDE uses a sound daemon
named artsd and I'm not sure I GNOME uses that too, or if GNOME still
uses esd.  Artsd is way better.

If you are using artsd, make sure that you are using the artsd output
plugin to XMMS.  Artsd lets multiple clients connect and will mix the
output for you.

> i found this page here:
>
http://fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?s=e52d0e476651701a47d55c9ee0
8a
> 91a8&t=18522
> 
> but i tried that, and it doesn't seem to have worked.
>
ALSA does have a similar feature, I believe, but you would be better off
using artsd instead.

Michael




From mhirsch at nubridges.com  Tue Jan 11 14:17:11 2005
From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael Hirsch)
Date: Tue Jan 11 14:17:11 2005
Subject: [ale] Syntax for resizing photos
Message-ID: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF04058C8C@germanium.numethods.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
David
> Corbin
> Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 10:13 PM
> To: ale at ale.org
> Subject: Re: [ale] Syntax for resizing photos
> 
> On Monday 10 January 2005 06:42, Geoffrey wrote:
> > Christopher Fowler wrote:
> > > mkdir smaller
> > > for i in *.jpg
> > > do
> > >   convert -resize 640x480 ${i} smaller/${i}
> > > done
> >
> > Or, if you don't care about retaining the original images:
> >
> > for i in *.jpg
> > do
> >    convert -resize 640x480 ${i} ${i}
> > done
> 
> How about to resize it "20% larger", no matter what size it is now?

convert -geometry "120%" file1 file2

Michael




From bluejay at speedfactory.net  Tue Jan 11 14:21:39 2005
From: bluejay at speedfactory.net (Jim Seymour)
Date: Tue Jan 11 14:21:39 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux router help needed......again
In-Reply-To: <20050111185705.GE2306@rdlg.net>
References: <20050111153927.GA6878@speedfactory.net>
	<20050111161518.GA2306@rdlg.net>
	<20050111184157.GC6878@speedfactory.net>
	<20050111185705.GE2306@rdlg.net>
Message-ID: <20050111191735.GA3787@speedfactory.net>

On Tue, Jan 11, 2005 at 01:57:05PM -0500, Robert L. Harris wrote:
> 
> 
> Give me the output of a "ip route" from the linux box.  You have the
> 192.168.7.0 pointing at eth1.  What IP is the windows box getting and
> is it off eth0 or eth1?
> 
>
No output from "ip route". It seems I do not have that installed. The ip
address getting assigned to the WinXp box is 192.168.7.20 and the
possible range is from 192.168.7.10 to 20. Eth1 has an ip address of
192.168.7.2 and my dsl router uses 192.168.7.1. 192.168.7.0 was
supposed to be the network address.

Thanks,

Jim


From Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net  Tue Jan 11 14:42:22 2005
From: Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net (Robert L. Harris)
Date: Tue Jan 11 14:42:22 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux router help needed......again
In-Reply-To: <20050111191735.GA3787@speedfactory.net>
References: <20050111153927.GA6878@speedfactory.net>
	<20050111161518.GA2306@rdlg.net>
	<20050111184157.GC6878@speedfactory.net>
	<20050111185705.GE2306@rdlg.net>
	<20050111191735.GA3787@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <20050111193826.GF2306@rdlg.net>



This sounds wrong or atleast overly complicated.

If your linux box is between your DSL router and the rest of your
hardware you should have it in bridge mode (transparent packet
filtering) or splitting your system.

In the case of my system:

{1}:/var/www/htdocs/SoulForge>ip route
68.191.246.192/28 dev eth0  proto kernel  scope link  src 68.191.246.195 
192.168.0.0/24 dev eth1  proto kernel  scope link  src 192.168.0.1 
default via 68.191.246.193 dev eth0 

(my cablemodem provides the 68.191.246.193).

eth0 connects to my cablemodem is is 68.191.246.195/28
My firewall IP on eth1 is 192.168.0.1
  My home network is 192.168.0.1/24

My dhcp server shares out 192.168.0.100-200 with a default route of
192.168.0.1





Thus spake Jim Seymour (bluejay at speedfactory.net):

> On Tue, Jan 11, 2005 at 01:57:05PM -0500, Robert L. Harris wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Give me the output of a "ip route" from the linux box.  You have the
> > 192.168.7.0 pointing at eth1.  What IP is the windows box getting and
> > is it off eth0 or eth1?
> > 
> >
> No output from "ip route". It seems I do not have that installed. The ip
> address getting assigned to the WinXp box is 192.168.7.20 and the
> possible range is from 192.168.7.10 to 20. Eth1 has an ip address of
> 192.168.7.2 and my dsl router uses 192.168.7.1. 192.168.7.0 was
> supposed to be the network address.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jim
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

:wq!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert L. Harris                     | GPG Key ID: E344DA3B
                                         @ x-hkp://pgp.mit.edu
DISCLAIMER:
      These are MY OPINIONS             With Dreams To Be A King,
       ALONE.  I speak for              First One Should Be A Man
       no-one else.                       - Manowar

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From david.muse at firstworks.com  Tue Jan 11 15:06:25 2005
From: david.muse at firstworks.com (David Muse)
Date: Tue Jan 11 15:06:25 2005
Subject: [ale] Comprimised System
In-Reply-To: <20050111184850.GR7913@worldnet.att.net>
References: <acb6c44105011108455dd765ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050111123156.098eb0e6@neptune.4accesscommunications.com>
	<20050111184850.GR7913@worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <20050111150209.449e4e4e@neptune.4accesscommunications.com>

All good points.  I hadn't thought about those possibilities at all. 
Guess I got lucky in the past.  Or maybe I just got fooled into thinking
I got lucky.

On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 13:48:51 -0500
Jason Day <jasonday at worldnet.att.net> wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 11, 2005 at 12:31:56PM -0500, David Muse wrote:
> [snip]
> 
> > Once you have a clean rpm installation, reboot and run:
> > 	rpm --verify --all
> > 
> > It will report any file that has been modified from it's distributed
> > form.
> 
> Unless the rootkit author modified the boot process to check that the
> installed rpm is the "correct" one at boot, and if not, either restore
> the cracked version or do nasty things to the system.
> 
> [snip]
> 
> > Once you have restored your system tools, you can trust their
> > output. You know, for example that ps will report all processes and
> > not hide any.
> 
> Unless the rootkit author installed a process that periodically checks
> that the installed system tools are the "correct" ones.  Or installed
> a kernel module that leaves the system tools intact, but intercepts
> some choice syscalls and returns bogus values.
> 
> NEVER assume that the attacker is not smarter than you are, or that
> you can think of everything the attacker might have done.  As others
> have said, the only way to be sure you've disinfected a system is to
> do a complete wipe and rebuild, or swap the drives.  You're really
> taking a risk if you don't.  If a rebuild is really not an option
> right now, you'll just have to weigh the risks.  But keep in mind, if
> the attacker thinks you're onto him, he may decide to cover his tracks
> by simply deleting everything on the disks.  This happened to me once.
> 
> Jason
> -- 
> Jason Day                                       jasonday at
> http://jasonday.home.att.net                    worldnet dot att dot
> net
>  
> "Of course I'm paranoid, everyone is trying to kill me."
>     -- Weyoun-6, Star Trek: Deep Space 9
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 


From transam at verysecurelinux.com  Tue Jan 11 15:13:10 2005
From: transam at verysecurelinux.com (Bob Toxen)
Date: Tue Jan 11 15:13:10 2005
Subject: [ale] Compromised System
In-Reply-To: <2802c52205011110257e54e218@mail.gmail.com>
References: <acb6c441050111084656da85f9@mail.gmail.com>
	<2802c52205011110257e54e218@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050111200915.GC25520@verysecurelinux.com>

You don't have to rebuild from scratch to recover a compromised system.
I describe how to do it in Part IV of my book

  "Real World Linux Security: Intrusion Detection, Prevention, and Recovery"
  2nd Ed., Prentice Hall, (C) 2003, 848 pages, ISBN: 0130464562
  Also available in Japanese, Chinese, and Czech.
  http://www.realworldlinuxsecurity.com

On Tue, Jan 11, 2005 at 01:25:45PM -0500, Jonathan Rickman wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 11:46:24 -0500, Nick Travis <wormfishin at gmail.com> wrote:
> > We have a system at work that has been compromised.  It looks like
> > they got in and used several different executable files, I've got the
> > command history however I don't think it is complete.  For example I
> > see that directories were created, but I never saw that they were
> > removed and I can't find them.  It looks like about 5 ftp sites were
> > hit and there was about 3 wget commands to pull down files.  Also
> > apache was downloaded and installed, even though it was already
> > running on the system.  So here's my question, I know that rebuilding
> > the system is the only way to be sure that there is nothing else
> > hidden on it, but that's not an option at this point.  Are there any
> > good HowTo's or books out there that can give me some direction on how
> > to check they system for irregularities?  This is the first time I've
> > dealt with this so I would like to learn as much as I can about it,
> > I've already determined how they got in.  A user made their password
> > the same as their login name, which obviously is no longer allowed.
> > BTW the system is running Red Hat 7.3.
> 
> I think you have answered your own question there, and I'm sure you
> know that already. If an intruder was actually able to execute
> commands from a shell on your system, it can't be trusted...period. If
> you absolutely have to leave it up, you should at least run chkrootkit
> on it along with any sig checks (if you have them). Then it should be
> surrounded by packet filters immediately. However, you should take no
> feeling of comfort away from this no matter the result. You should
> image the system for recovery purposes and wipe it as soon as you
> possibly can. Prolonging the inevitable only leads to more problems.
> 
> --
> Jonathan

Best regards,

Bob Toxen, CTO
Fly-By-Day Consulting, Inc.
"Your expert in Firewalls, Virus and Spam Filters, VPNs,
Network Monitoring, and Network Security consulting"

http://www.verysecurelinux.com       [Network & Linux/Unix Security Consulting]
bob at verysecurelinux.com (e-mail)

My recent training and talks on Linux security include:
  at IBM's Linux Competency Center in New York City     on Mar.  06   last year
  at the Atlanta SecureWorld Expo in Atlanta            on May   22   last year
  at the Enterprise Linux Forum in Silicon Valley       on June  04   last year
  at Computer Associates' Atlanta Linux Security Summit on Sep.  16   last year
  in New Jersey                                         on Oct. 27-30 last year
  at Southeast Cybercrime Summit in Atlanta             on Mar.   4   2004
  at the FBI's Atlanta headquarters                     on Mar.  10   2004
  in Denver, CO                                         on Apr. 15-16 2004
  in New Jersey                                         on May. 25-26 2004
  at the Atlanta SecureWorld Expo in Atlanta            on May   27   2004
  in Denver, CO                                         on Jul. 12-13 2004
  at Linux World SF signing at Prentice Hall's booth    on Aug.  03   2004
  in Denver, CO                                         on Sep. 27-28 2004
  in Boston, MA                                         on Oct. 11-14 2004
  at Atlanta Unix Users Group                           on Nov.  01   2004
  in New Jersey                                         on Nov. 15-16 2004


From john at turbocorp.com  Tue Jan 11 15:18:21 2005
From: john at turbocorp.com (John Allgood)
Date: Tue Jan 11 15:18:21 2005
Subject: [ale] Dual Adaptec 2200S Card on Redhat ES 3.0 x86_64
In-Reply-To: <41E40EC0.3030701@atlantacon.org>
References: <41E3E98E.20306@turbocorp.com>
	<41E3F2D3.9020902@atlantacon.org>	<41E4051E.6080906@turbocorp.com>
	<41E40EC0.3030701@atlantacon.org>
Message-ID: <41E4339D.5070207@turbocorp.com>

Hello Again
  
    I think I found what I was doing wrong. I was changing an option 
called BBS Support. I disabled scsi BIOS support on the scsi card that 
handles the external drives and I believe that has fixed the problem. 
Sometimes when you have looked at a problem for so long you miss the 
obvious.

Thanks

Drag0n wrote:
> Are these onboard cards, or pci cards? If its onboard, then you are 
> limited to how it will boot and recognise the cards. Swaping the 
> cables may not work, and also may require a rebuild. Adaptec bios 
> should have an option to  set the boot channel/card, if they are on 
> board, if they are pci, then it should be easy to turn off loading the 
> scsi bios.
>
>
> Drag0n
> dragon<at>atlantacon.org
>
> John Allgood wrote:
>
>> I thought I had already done that. As many things I have tried I will 
>> do that again. I think I tried swapping the cables around and I 
>> couldn't get the sytem to boot. I may try to reload after I switch 
>> the cables around and turn off BBS Support on the external cards. 
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Drag0n wrote:
>>
>>>    I have had similar issues with 2 of the same cards in a system 
>>> being recognised in different orders from the bios and kernel. I 
>>> normaly turn off the bootable bios in the external card, that gives 
>>> you the freedom to swap the order of the cards in the system to 
>>> initialize properly. As the external drives won't have any OS data 
>>> on them, they don't need to be able to load a scsi boot bios.
>>>    Another less popular option is to boot from a floppy so it doesnt 
>>> matter how the cards are ordered in the system.
>>>
>>>
>>> Drag0n
>>> dragon<at>atlacon.org
>>>
>>>
>>> John Allgood wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello Ale
>>>>
>>>>    I have a problem that Redhat has yet to solve for me. I have a 
>>>> Opteron system running dual Adaptec 2200s card. The card on bus 0 
>>>> is running the internal drives that contain the OS. The second card 
>>>> on bus 1 has a Infostation attached. The problem is that the OS 
>>>> detects the Infostation first and labels /dev/sda on the 
>>>> Infostation and places /dev/sdh on the internal drives. I have done 
>>>> many things to try and correct the problem. I have moved cables 
>>>> around, played around with /etc/modules.conf and a couple of other 
>>>> things. Has anyone on the list got a similiar configuration and did 
>>>> you encounter this same problem. I am trying to build a cluster 
>>>> using the Redhat Cluster Suite. The systems are dual Opteron 250s, 
>>>> Tyan K8S Pro motherboard, Adapter 2200s controllers, Kingston 
>>>> Infostation. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> John Allgood - ESC
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Ale mailing list
>>>> Ale at ale.org
>>>> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Ale mailing list
>>> Ale at ale.org
>>> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ale mailing list
>> Ale at ale.org
>> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>


From pizza at shaftnet.org  Tue Jan 11 15:38:06 2005
From: pizza at shaftnet.org (Stuffed Crust)
Date: Tue Jan 11 15:38:06 2005
Subject: [ale] Dual Adaptec 2200S Card on Redhat ES 3.0 x86_64
In-Reply-To: <41E3E98E.20306@turbocorp.com>
References: <41E3E98E.20306@turbocorp.com>
Message-ID: <20050111202157.GA786@shaftnet.org>

On Tue, Jan 11, 2005 at 09:58:22AM -0500, John Allgood wrote:
> correct the problem. I have moved cables around, played around with 
> /etc/modules.conf and a couple of other things. Has anyone on the list 
> got a similiar configuration and did you encounter this same problem. I

You might try adding 'pci=reverse' to the kernel command line.

 - Pizza
-- 
Solomon Peachy        				 ICQ: 1318344
Melbourne, FL 					 JID: pitha at myjabber.net
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur
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From ringo at margaritasrus.com  Tue Jan 11 16:16:02 2005
From: ringo at margaritasrus.com (ringo)
Date: Tue Jan 11 16:16:02 2005
Subject: [ale] Newbie and Dual install
In-Reply-To: <20050111202157.GA786@shaftnet.org>
Message-ID: <012c01c4f822$34acc190$bb00a8c0@Ringo>

I'm brand new to Linux but I'm taking a course at Ga. Tech that requires
I use the software from http://playerstage.sourceforge.net/index.html
which only runs on Linux. I have a Compaq laptop with a Pentium running
at 475Mhz with 192MB of Ram and 2 gig free hard drive space. It
currently has windows 98 on it and I would like to keep it because some
of my compilers and programs require it. 
Is this enough room to install Linux?
Which version do you recommend?
How hard is it to install it and keep the windows?
Is there a site that will walk me though the installation?
Thanks
Ringo




From jloden at toughguy.net  Tue Jan 11 16:33:21 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Tue Jan 11 16:33:21 2005
Subject: [ale] can't get software sound mixing to work
In-Reply-To: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF04058C88@germanium.numethods.com>
References: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF04058C88@germanium.numethods.com>
Message-ID: <200501111627.04467.jloden@toughguy.net>

Joh6nn and I spent last night working on his Linux install, including working 
on this sound problem, and we were able to get sound mixing working with both 
artsd and ESD, but when using artsd, it had a huge buffer, meaning the gaim 
sounds would take like ten seconds or more to play while xmms was playing. 
Messing with the sound buffer or realtime priority, etc, seemed to have no 
effect.

With ESD, the sound mixes properly, however. (it's KDE)

-Jay


On Tuesday 11 January 2005 2:06, Michael Hirsch wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
>
> joh6nn
>
> > Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 8:00 PM
> > To: ale at ale.org
> > Subject: [ale] can't get software sound mixing to work
> >
> > hi guys, long time listener, first time caller
> >
> > i'm real new to linux (real new), and i'm trying to get all settled
> > into a new mandrake install that my friend helped me get set up, but i
> > can't get multiple apps to share the sound card; as it stounds, if i'm
> > listening to music with xmms, all other system sounds (eg, from gaim),
> > get queued up, and play all at once whenever xmms stops.
>
> Are you using KDE (Mandrake default) or GNOME?  KDE uses a sound daemon
> named artsd and I'm not sure I GNOME uses that too, or if GNOME still
> uses esd.  Artsd is way better.
>
> If you are using artsd, make sure that you are using the artsd output
> plugin to XMMS.  Artsd lets multiple clients connect and will mix the
> output for you.
>
> > i found this page here:
>
> http://fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?s=e52d0e476651701a47d55c9ee0
> 8a
>
> > 91a8&t=18522
> >
> > but i tried that, and it doesn't seem to have worked.
>
> ALSA does have a similar feature, I believe, but you would be better off
> using artsd instead.
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Tue Jan 11 16:57:01 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Tue Jan 11 16:57:01 2005
Subject: [ale] Newbie and Dual install
In-Reply-To: <012c01c4f822$34acc190$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
References: <012c01c4f822$34acc190$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
Message-ID: <41E44AC6.2080501@3times25.net>

ringo wrote:
> I'm brand new to Linux but I'm taking a course at Ga. Tech that requires
> I use the software from http://playerstage.sourceforge.net/index.html
> which only runs on Linux. I have a Compaq laptop with a Pentium running
> at 475Mhz with 192MB of Ram and 2 gig free hard drive space. It
> currently has windows 98 on it and I would like to keep it because some
> of my compilers and programs require it. 
> Is this enough room to install Linux?

It's enough, but you won't have much space left and you not likely to be 
able load a full install, but that should be sufficient to accomplish 
what you want.

> Which version do you recommend?

On this list, you will find that is a religious issue.  I would 
recommend SuSE as the one I find to be the most polished and easiest to 
install.  After that I'd look at Mandrake, Red Hat, Debian, in that 
order.  I've found SuSE and Mandrake to do a pretty much flawless dual 
boot with an existing win98.

> How hard is it to install it and keep the windows?

Not bad.  Most of the more polished versions of Linux will protect your 
existing windows env.  Just be sure that you read all the messages as 
all the major distros will warn you if they intend to blow away an 
existing partition.  You may need to enter expert mode on some, although 
I don't recall at this time.

> Is there a site that will walk me though the installation?

When do you need it done by?  There are a number of good sites out there 
for such things, google is your friend.  I don't have any links off hand.

You might consider bringing your box to one of the ALE meetings and 
getting some assistance.

Regardless of your choices, backup your critical data on your windows 
partition before beginning.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From mhirsch at nubridges.com  Tue Jan 11 17:10:43 2005
From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael Hirsch)
Date: Tue Jan 11 17:10:43 2005
Subject: [ale] Newbie and Dual install
Message-ID: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF043D6E16@germanium.numethods.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
ringo
> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 4:12 PM
> To: 'Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts'
> Subject: [ale] Newbie and Dual install
> 
> I'm brand new to Linux but I'm taking a course at Ga. Tech that
requires
> I use the software from http://playerstage.sourceforge.net/index.html
> which only runs on Linux. I have a Compaq laptop with a Pentium
running
> at 475Mhz with 192MB of Ram and 2 gig free hard drive space. It
> currently has windows 98 on it and I would like to keep it because
some
> of my compilers and programs require it.
> Is this enough room to install Linux?

Yes.  If you install everything you could run out of space, but if you
only install what you need it is okay.

> Which version do you recommend?

I recommend whatever your best Linux-using friend uses.  :-)  I am
personally fond of Mandrake or SuSE for beginners.  I wouldn't recommend
Debian or Slackware until you are more experienced.

> How hard is it to install it and keep the windows?

That is standard.  You'll need to defrag the disk (in windows) and split
off the free space.  I think that most distributions walk you through
this, though it's been so long since I did this that I'm quite unsure
about that.

> Is there a site that will walk me though the installation?

A google search will turn up any number of such things.  The easiest way
is to go to Fry's or CompUSA and by a copy of SuSE and then you get a
manual to go with it.  It is actually easier than installing Windows,
and I'm sure you can do it.

Michael



From jcphil at mindspring.com  Tue Jan 11 17:20:50 2005
From: jcphil at mindspring.com (Jcphil)
Date: Tue Jan 11 17:20:50 2005
Subject: [ale] Encrypted document
Message-ID: <vasncqjwaufrvquyhfl@ale.org>

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From jloden at toughguy.net  Tue Jan 11 17:36:24 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Tue Jan 11 17:36:24 2005
Subject: [ale] Newbie and Dual install
In-Reply-To: <012c01c4f822$34acc190$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
References: <012c01c4f822$34acc190$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
Message-ID: <200501111730.03072.jloden@toughguy.net>

Others have given good advice, and I'll just chime in to say that Mandrake 
does an excellent job of preserving a Windows installation and not being too 
hard to install. 

I suggest that you get more free space on the drive for this, but you dont 
absolutely need to. 

-Jay


On Tuesday 11 January 2005 4:12, ringo wrote:
> I'm brand new to Linux but I'm taking a course at Ga. Tech that requires
> I use the software from http://playerstage.sourceforge.net/index.html
> which only runs on Linux. I have a Compaq laptop with a Pentium running
> at 475Mhz with 192MB of Ram and 2 gig free hard drive space. It
> currently has windows 98 on it and I would like to keep it because some
> of my compilers and programs require it.
> Is this enough room to install Linux?
> Which version do you recommend?
> How hard is it to install it and keep the windows?
> Is there a site that will walk me though the installation?
> Thanks
> Ringo
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From skurzak at hotmail.com  Tue Jan 11 17:54:22 2005
From: skurzak at hotmail.com (Tomek Skurzak)
Date: Tue Jan 11 17:54:22 2005
Subject: [ale] Need help with Installation
Message-ID: <BAY102-F39F1B88D71779F94662FAAA0880@phx.gbl>

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From n4zm at mindspring.com  Tue Jan 11 18:02:31 2005
From: n4zm at mindspring.com (zeb)
Date: Tue Jan 11 18:02:31 2005
Subject: [ale] Newbie and Dual install
In-Reply-To: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF043D6E16@germanium.numethods.com>
References: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF043D6E16@germanium.numethods.com>
Message-ID: <200501111757.31208.n4zm@mindspring.com>

On Tuesday 11 January 2005 17:06, Michael Hirsch wrote:

Have a look at Vector Linux.  It is unfortunately (or not) based on 
Slackware, but it is deliberately made small .

....Zeb

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf
> > Of
>
> ringo
>
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 4:12 PM
> > To: 'Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts'
> > Subject: [ale] Newbie and Dual install
> >
> > I'm brand new to Linux but I'm taking a course at Ga. Tech that
>
> requires
>
> > I use the software from
> > http://playerstage.sourceforge.net/index.html which only runs on
> > Linux. I have a Compaq laptop with a Pentium
>
> running
>
> > at 475Mhz with 192MB of Ram and 2 gig free hard drive space. It
> > currently has windows 98 on it and I would like to keep it
> > because
>
> some
>
> > of my compilers and programs require it.
> > Is this enough room to install Linux?
>
> Yes.  If you install everything you could run out of space, but if
> you only install what you need it is okay.
>
> > Which version do you recommend?
>
> I recommend whatever your best Linux-using friend uses.  :-)  I am
> personally fond of Mandrake or SuSE for beginners.  I wouldn't
> recommend Debian or Slackware until you are more experienced.
>
> > How hard is it to install it and keep the windows?
>
> That is standard.  You'll need to defrag the disk (in windows) and
> split off the free space.  I think that most distributions walk you
> through this, though it's been so long since I did this that I'm
> quite unsure about that.
>
> > Is there a site that will walk me though the installation?
>
> A google search will turn up any number of such things.  The
> easiest way is to go to Fry's or CompUSA and by a copy of SuSE and
> then you get a manual to go with it.  It is actually easier than
> installing Windows, and I'm sure you can do it.
>
> Michael
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From danscox at mindspring.com  Tue Jan 11 18:07:15 2005
From: danscox at mindspring.com (Danny Cox)
Date: Tue Jan 11 18:07:15 2005
Subject: [ale] Understanding dd and/or /dev/zero
In-Reply-To: <41E35494.2@wolfnet.org>
References: <87f94c37050110135459ba816b@mail.gmail.com>
	<1105402523.19552.1.camel@pip>	<87f94c3705011016413c0233a1@mail.gmail.com>
	<1105410557.19552.10.camel@pip>  <41E35494.2@wolfnet.org>
Message-ID: <1105484596.19552.14.camel@pip>

Jason,

On Mon, 2005-01-10 at 23:22 -0500, Jason Fritcher wrote:
> > 	No, as I said, just another data point.  1 MB is lots bigger than 512,
> > so I thought we'd just see if it made a difference.
> 
> Look back at the dd command again. You put bs=1024M. Certainly alot more
> than just 1 MB. :)

	Picky, picky, picky.  Do you *really* think that dd knows the
difference between 1K and 1M?  Sheesh!

	;-)

	You're correct, of course.  I MEANT 1024K.  'way back when, I bet dd
only knew B (blocks) and K (1024).  I started using Unix with Edition 7.
Whups!  Showing my age again!

-- 
kernel, n.: A part of an operating system that preserves the
medieval traditions of sorcery and black art.

Danny


From jimmyc at speedfactory.net  Tue Jan 11 18:12:40 2005
From: jimmyc at speedfactory.net (Jim Philips)
Date: Tue Jan 11 18:12:40 2005
Subject: [ale] Need help with Installation
In-Reply-To: <BAY102-F39F1B88D71779F94662FAAA0880@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY102-F39F1B88D71779F94662FAAA0880@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <200501111807.57236.jimmyc@speedfactory.net>

On Tuesday 11 January 2005 05:49 pm, Tomek Skurzak wrote:
> i am new to Linux. I tried to install Yoper and Suse. In both cases I had
> problems with the video card. The bottom line is that I can not see
> anything on the screen after the linux boots up. Even when I try to adjust
> the screen visuals inside the monitor.
>
>
> Would you know any commands in the shell I could use to change the
> graphics? or any other suggestions?
>
>
> The box is IBM ?PII 300MHz.

The first thing anybody would need to know is the video card you're using. 
With that information in hand, we might be able to help you.


From jloden at toughguy.net  Tue Jan 11 18:13:28 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Tue Jan 11 18:13:28 2005
Subject: [ale] Need help with Installation
In-Reply-To: <BAY102-F39F1B88D71779F94662FAAA0880@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY102-F39F1B88D71779F94662FAAA0880@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <200501111807.08436.jloden@toughguy.net>

Can you at least see the command prompt? 

What kind of video card is this? 

-Jay

On Tuesday 11 January 2005 5:49, Tomek Skurzak wrote:
> i am new to Linux. I tried to install Yoper and Suse. In both cases I had
> problems with the video card. The bottom line is that I can not see
> anything on the screen after the linux boots up. Even when I try to adjust
> the screen visuals inside the monitor.
>
>
> Would you know any commands in the shell I could use to change the
> graphics? or any other suggestions?
>
>
> The box is IBM ?PII 300MHz.
>
>
> Thank you,
>
>
> Tom
>
>
>
>
>
> ?


From preston.boyington at mindspring.com  Tue Jan 11 18:14:34 2005
From: preston.boyington at mindspring.com (Preston Boyington)
Date: Tue Jan 11 18:14:34 2005
Subject: [ale] Newbie and Dual install
In-Reply-To: <012c01c4f822$34acc190$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
References: <012c01c4f822$34acc190$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
Message-ID: <41E45CC6.5020508@mindspring.com>

ringo wrote:
> I'm brand new to Linux but I'm taking a course at Ga. Tech that requires
> I use the software from http://playerstage.sourceforge.net/index.html
> which only runs on Linux. I have a Compaq laptop with a Pentium running
> at 475Mhz with 192MB of Ram and 2 gig free hard drive space.

First do these two things:
1) go to http://www.linux-on-laptops.com/compaq.html and look up your 
specific computer.  you will be able to see what others have running on 
similar hardware.

2) download a Knoppix cdrom from http://www.linuxiso.org/  Knoppix is a 
"LiveCD".  it runs from cd at boot time and will give you an idea of how 
your machine will function under linux.  you will most likely want to 
type the following in when you see the command prompt when Knoppix first 
starts:

knoppix desktop=icewm

this is known as a "cheat" (you will see instructions on pressing F2 and 
such for more cheats) and will boot Knoppix with the IceWM desktop. 
IceWM is more Win9x like than KDE and GNOME so it should be somewhat 
comfortable.

>It currently has windows 98 on it and I would like to keep it because some
> of my compilers and programs require it. 
> Is this enough room to install Linux?

yes, but with this laptop you probably shouldn't run desktops like GNOME 
or KDE as they are "bulky" (IMHO).  something like IceWM, WindowMaker, 
or Fluxbox would feel faster.

> Which version do you recommend?

debatable.  if you are just wanting something to install for the short 
term then i would suggest SuSE, Mandrake, or Fedora.  if you can get 
someone to walk you through the "rough" spots then I would suggest 
*gasp* Debian or Slackware.  Debian and Slackware are going to be much 
"lighter" on your system (again opinion) than the previous mentioned big 
three.

> How hard is it to install it and keep the windows?

it really is not hard.  just read your choices and ask questions.  most 
people here will help.

> Is there a site that will walk me though the installation?

ask questions here if necessary.  I have a Compaq laptop running Debian 
3.0 (Woody).  it has a 133mhz processor, 32mb ram, and a 2gb hard drive. 
  after a full install i haven't used but 600mb of hard disk space.  if 
i hadn't installed all those audio players, internet browsers, office 
suites, and games i could have kept it relatively small. ;-)

> Thanks
> Ringo
> 

your welcome,
Preston


From preston.boyington at mindspring.com  Tue Jan 11 18:21:09 2005
From: preston.boyington at mindspring.com (Preston Boyington)
Date: Tue Jan 11 18:21:09 2005
Subject: [ale] Need help with Installation
In-Reply-To: <BAY102-F39F1B88D71779F94662FAAA0880@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY102-F39F1B88D71779F94662FAAA0880@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <41E45E4B.7000301@mindspring.com>

Tomek Skurzak wrote:
> 
> i am new to Linux. I tried to install Yoper and Suse. In both cases I 
> had problems with the video card. The bottom line is that I can not see 
> anything on the screen after the linux boots up. Even when I try to 
> adjust the screen visuals inside the monitor.
> 
> Would you know any commands in the shell I could use to change the 
> graphics? or any other suggestions?
> 
> The box is IBM  PII 300MHz.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Tom
> 

I would say that the easiest thing to do would be this: download a 
Knoppix cdrom and see what it detects for your video settings.  once you 
know what your hardware is (video card, monitor, etc) it will be _much_ 
easier for us to help.

Preston


From skurzak at hotmail.com  Tue Jan 11 18:35:14 2005
From: skurzak at hotmail.com (Tomek Skurzak)
Date: Tue Jan 11 18:35:14 2005
Subject: [ale] Need help with Installation
In-Reply-To: <BAY102-F39F1B88D71779F94662FAAA0880@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY102-F231BC27D985586B703BB1EA0880@phx.gbl>

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From skurzak at hotmail.com  Tue Jan 11 18:42:59 2005
From: skurzak at hotmail.com (Tomek Skurzak)
Date: Tue Jan 11 18:42:59 2005
Subject: [ale] Need help with Installation
In-Reply-To: <BAY102-F39F1B88D71779F94662FAAA0880@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <BAY102-F150F3B3FE2C4A6E9C17B41A0880@phx.gbl>

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From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Tue Jan 11 18:48:37 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Tue Jan 11 18:48:37 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux router help needed......again
In-Reply-To: <20050111153927.GA6878@speedfactory.net>
References: <20050111153927.GA6878@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <1105487067.15110.132.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>

On Tue, 2005-01-11 at 10:39, Jim Seymour wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> General background only to shorten email. Set up a Debian Sarge box as
> router for a WinXP box using dhcp3 and ipmasq for nat. Result: WinXp box
> gets ip address and indicates it is connected to lan but cannot access
> the internet. I have read every man I can find and have been unable to
> get anywhere for days now :-( Any help or a very complete read somewhere
> appreciated. Looking at the firewall it does not show any requests from
> it being dropped.
I have recurring issues with XP not being able to set the dns servers
based on the Linux dhcp server.  If the XP box is part of a domain (XP
Pro) it gets worse. The solution has been to set the dns manually on the
XP box 

> 
> Many Thanks,
> 
> Jim Seymour
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> !DSPAM:41e3f45d209837782711784!
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From skurzak at hotmail.com  Tue Jan 11 18:50:11 2005
From: skurzak at hotmail.com (Tomek Skurzak)
Date: Tue Jan 11 18:50:11 2005
Subject: [ale] Need help with Installation
In-Reply-To: <200501111807.08436.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <BAY102-F143ACA1A6377F871D4130BA0880@phx.gbl>

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From drifter at oppositelock.org  Tue Jan 11 19:16:47 2005
From: drifter at oppositelock.org (Sean Kilpatrick)
Date: Tue Jan 11 19:16:47 2005
Subject: [ale] Alternatives
Message-ID: <200501111912.49962.drifter@oppositelock.org>

Long story made short:
  Upgraded RH9 to FC3.
  No application could find a printer.
  After much banging my head against a wall and consulting
  with my son I found my way to /etc/alternatives and the
  command of the same name.
  Read the man page -- three times, carefully. My eyes
  glazed over each time.
  My problem was that sym links were NOT pointing to the
  proper cups file but to the (outdated) Lprng file.

  Finally got things sorted out, but am left with a plea:

  Would someone -- anyone -- be willing to give a 5-10 minute
  explanation of <alternatives>  _with_ examples at an ALE
  Central meeting?

Sean

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From esoteric at 3times25.net  Tue Jan 11 19:34:19 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Tue Jan 11 19:34:19 2005
Subject: [ale] Need help with Installation
In-Reply-To: <BAY102-F39F1B88D71779F94662FAAA0880@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY102-F39F1B88D71779F94662FAAA0880@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <41E46FA0.1090101@3times25.net>

Tomek Skurzak wrote:
> i am new to Linux. I tried to install Yoper and Suse. In both cases I had 
> problems with the video card. The bottom line is that I can not see anything on 
> the screen after the linux boots up. Even when I try to adjust the screen 
> visuals inside the monitor.
> 
> Would you know any commands in the shell I could use to change the graphics? or 
> any other suggestions?
> 
> The box is IBM  PII 300MHz.

Do you know what video card it has?  Switch to a virtual console 
(ctrl-alt-F3 should work) and then check out /var/log/XFree86.0.log or 
/var/log/Xorg.0.log depending on what version you're running.  If you 
can't figure out what's going on there, post the contents of the log 
file and we'll go from there.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Tue Jan 11 19:35:14 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Tue Jan 11 19:35:14 2005
Subject: [ale] Newbie and Dual install
In-Reply-To: <200501111757.31208.n4zm@mindspring.com>
References: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF043D6E16@germanium.numethods.com>
	<200501111757.31208.n4zm@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <41E46FD9.7070505@3times25.net>

zeb wrote:
> On Tuesday 11 January 2005 17:06, Michael Hirsch wrote:
> 
> Have a look at Vector Linux.  It is unfortunately (or not) based on 
> Slackware, but it is deliberately made small .

I don't think I'd recommend Vector for someone new to Linux.  He can 
easily get a reasonable install of SuSE or Mandrake in the space he's 
got left.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Tue Jan 11 19:38:48 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Tue Jan 11 19:38:48 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux router help needed......again
In-Reply-To: <1105487067.15110.132.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>
References: <20050111153927.GA6878@speedfactory.net>
	<1105487067.15110.132.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <41E470B1.9070800@3times25.net>

James P. Kinney III wrote:
> On Tue, 2005-01-11 at 10:39, Jim Seymour wrote:
> 
>>Hi All,
>>
>>General background only to shorten email. Set up a Debian Sarge box as
>>router for a WinXP box using dhcp3 and ipmasq for nat. Result: WinXp box
>>gets ip address and indicates it is connected to lan but cannot access
>>the internet. I have read every man I can find and have been unable to
>>get anywhere for days now :-( Any help or a very complete read somewhere
>>appreciated. Looking at the firewall it does not show any requests from
>>it being dropped.
> 
> I have recurring issues with XP not being able to set the dns servers
> based on the Linux dhcp server.  If the XP box is part of a domain (XP
> Pro) it gets worse. The solution has been to set the dns manually on the
> XP box 

This is interesting.  I don't seem to have a problem at all when using 
smoothwall to provide dhcp services.  When it happens, was it permanent 
until reboot or did it finally resolve the issue on it's own?

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From ringo at margaritasrus.com  Tue Jan 11 19:44:59 2005
From: ringo at margaritasrus.com (ringo)
Date: Tue Jan 11 19:44:59 2005
Subject: [ale] Newbie and Dual install
In-Reply-To: <41E44AC6.2080501@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <000701c4f83f$643a7fc0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>

Thanks, I'm going to download SUSE, I see 3 different CD's, I'm assuming
I need all 3?
	SUSE LINUX - SUSE 9.1 Personal 700MB MD5SUM   
   	SUSE LINUX - SuSE 9.1 live-eval 680MB MD5SUM   
   	SUSE LINUX - SUSE 9.1 FTP Install
Thanks
Ringo


-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
Geoffrey
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 4:53 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] Newbie and Dual install

ringo wrote:
> I'm brand new to Linux but I'm taking a course at Ga. Tech that
requires
> I use the software from http://playerstage.sourceforge.net/index.html
> which only runs on Linux. I have a Compaq laptop with a Pentium
running
> at 475Mhz with 192MB of Ram and 2 gig free hard drive space. It
> currently has windows 98 on it and I would like to keep it because
some
> of my compilers and programs require it. 
> Is this enough room to install Linux?

It's enough, but you won't have much space left and you not likely to be

able load a full install, but that should be sufficient to accomplish 
what you want.

> Which version do you recommend?

On this list, you will find that is a religious issue.  I would 
recommend SuSE as the one I find to be the most polished and easiest to 
install.  After that I'd look at Mandrake, Red Hat, Debian, in that 
order.  I've found SuSE and Mandrake to do a pretty much flawless dual 
boot with an existing win98.

> How hard is it to install it and keep the windows?

Not bad.  Most of the more polished versions of Linux will protect your 
existing windows env.  Just be sure that you read all the messages as 
all the major distros will warn you if they intend to blow away an 
existing partition.  You may need to enter expert mode on some, although

I don't recall at this time.

> Is there a site that will walk me though the installation?

When do you need it done by?  There are a number of good sites out there

for such things, google is your friend.  I don't have any links off
hand.

You might consider bringing your box to one of the ALE meetings and 
getting some assistance.

Regardless of your choices, backup your critical data on your windows 
partition before beginning.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale




From esoteric at 3times25.net  Tue Jan 11 20:24:40 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Tue Jan 11 20:24:40 2005
Subject: [ale] Newbie and Dual install
In-Reply-To: <000701c4f83f$643a7fc0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
References: <000701c4f83f$643a7fc0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
Message-ID: <41E47B70.5010602@3times25.net>

ringo wrote:
> Thanks, I'm going to download SUSE, I see 3 different CD's, I'm assuming
> I need all 3?
> 	SUSE LINUX - SUSE 9.1 Personal 700MB MD5SUM   
>    	SUSE LINUX - SuSE 9.1 live-eval 680MB MD5SUM   
>    	SUSE LINUX - SUSE 9.1 FTP Install

Do you have a dvd burner (and broadband pipe)?  You can get the SuSE 9.2 
dvd from:

ftp://ftp.ale.org/pub/suse/i386/9.2/iso/

If not, then just get the first iso you've listed above, you won't need 
the other two.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Tue Jan 11 21:17:31 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Tue Jan 11 21:17:31 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux router help needed......again
In-Reply-To: <41E470B1.9070800@3times25.net>
References: <20050111153927.GA6878@speedfactory.net>
	<1105487067.15110.132.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>
	<41E470B1.9070800@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <1105496003.15110.365.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>

On Tue, 2005-01-11 at 19:34, Geoffrey wrote:
> James P. Kinney III wrote:
> > On Tue, 2005-01-11 at 10:39, Jim Seymour wrote:
> > 
> >>Hi All,
> >>
> >>General background only to shorten email. Set up a Debian Sarge box as
> >>router for a WinXP box using dhcp3 and ipmasq for nat. Result: WinXp box
> >>gets ip address and indicates it is connected to lan but cannot access
> >>the internet. I have read every man I can find and have been unable to
> >>get anywhere for days now :-( Any help or a very complete read somewhere
> >>appreciated. Looking at the firewall it does not show any requests from
> >>it being dropped.
> > 
> > I have recurring issues with XP not being able to set the dns servers
> > based on the Linux dhcp server.  If the XP box is part of a domain (XP
> > Pro) it gets worse. The solution has been to set the dns manually on the
> > XP box 
> 
> This is interesting.  I don't seem to have a problem at all when using 
> smoothwall to provide dhcp services.  When it happens, was it permanent 
> until reboot or did it finally resolve the issue on it's own?

It was very confusing. The affected machines were working and then they
stopped working. They all had been rebooted and then refused to connect
correctly afterwards. The Linux server was not rebooted, but the XP
machines were manyh times. some would heal themselves after a reboot or
two, others just refused to work with out the manual DNS entry. Later
(week or so) it seemed to just all go away with no more problems. 

I suspect a broken XP update as the likely culprit.
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From pmazer at gmail.com  Tue Jan 11 22:47:37 2005
From: pmazer at gmail.com (Parker McGee)
Date: Tue Jan 11 22:47:37 2005
Subject: [ale] Need help with Installation
In-Reply-To: <BAY102-F143ACA1A6377F871D4130BA0880@phx.gbl>
References: <200501111807.08436.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<BAY102-F143ACA1A6377F871D4130BA0880@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <41dc54540501111943e3662f5@mail.gmail.com>

1st thing:

Have you tried running Knoppix or similar boot disk and does it run?


On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 18:45:31 -0500, Tomek Skurzak <skurzak at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Yes I can see the command prompt 
> 
> S3 Trio64V2 video controller
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
>  
>  ----Original Message Follows---- From: Jay Loden <jloden at toughguy.net>
> Reply-To: jloden at toughguy.net, Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org> To:
> Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org> Subject: Re: [ale] Need help with
> Installation Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 18:07:08 -0500 Can you at least see the
> command prompt? What kind of video card is this? -Jay On Tuesday 11 January
> 2005 5:49, Tomek Skurzak wrote: > i am new to Linux. I tried to install
> Yoper and Suse. In both cases I had > problems with the video card. The
> bottom line is that I can not see > anything on the screen after the linux
> boots up. Even when I try to adjust > the screen visuals inside the monitor.
> > > > Would you know any commands in the shell I could use to change the >
> graphics? or any other suggestions? > > > The box is IBM  PII 300MHz. > > >
> Thank you, > > > Tom > > > > > >  
> _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> 


-- 
Parker McGee


From jloden at toughguy.net  Tue Jan 11 23:10:16 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Tue Jan 11 23:10:16 2005
Subject: [ale] Need help with Installation
In-Reply-To: <BAY102-F143ACA1A6377F871D4130BA0880@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY102-F143ACA1A6377F871D4130BA0880@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <200501112304.02873.jloden@toughguy.net>

As others have suggested, try a live linux cd like knoppix or some other 
distribution to see if it can configure the video card. 

If you are interested in trying another distribution for install, I recommend 
Mandrake, it has good hardware detection, and a X config tool you can run 
from the command prompt.  Suse may have this also, I'm not familiar with it. 

If you try Mandrake Move, the Mandrake live CD, it should be a good indication 
whether mandrake can figure out your video card. 
-Jay

On Tuesday 11 January 2005 6:45, Tomek Skurzak wrote:
> Yes I can see the command prompt
>
>
> S3 Trio64V2 video controller


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 12 03:35:12 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Wed Jan 12 03:35:12 2005
Subject: [ale] Alternatives
In-Reply-To: <200501111912.49962.drifter@oppositelock.org>
References: <200501111912.49962.drifter@oppositelock.org>
Message-ID: <1105514363.18436.17.camel@blue>

At a simplistic level /etc/alternatives is a way for distros to map one
file to another files.  For instance, if you shipped a Linux distro with
these 2 files:

   /usr/bin/httpd
   /usr/bin/roxen

Out of the box you might provide a default softlink from one of the
above to /etc/alternatives/webserver.

You could then have one startup script
called /etc/init.d/preferred-webserver which executed
the /etc/alternatives/webserver.

-Jim P.


On Tue, 2005-01-11 at 19:12 -0500, Sean Kilpatrick wrote:
> Long story made short:
>   Upgraded RH9 to FC3.
>   No application could find a printer.
>   After much banging my head against a wall and consulting
>   with my son I found my way to /etc/alternatives and the
>   command of the same name.
>   Read the man page -- three times, carefully. My eyes
>   glazed over each time.
>   My problem was that sym links were NOT pointing to the
>   proper cups file but to the (outdated) Lprng file.
> 
>   Finally got things sorted out, but am left with a plea:
> 
>   Would someone -- anyone -- be willing to give a 5-10 minute
>   explanation of <alternatives>  _with_ examples at an ALE
>   Central meeting?
> 
> Sean
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Wed Jan 12 10:25:06 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Wed Jan 12 10:25:06 2005
Subject: [ale] Need help with Installation
In-Reply-To: <200501112304.02873.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <BAY102-F143ACA1A6377F871D4130BA0880@phx.gbl>
	<200501112304.02873.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <41E5403C.6020405@3times25.net>

Jay Loden wrote:
> As others have suggested, try a live linux cd like knoppix or some
> other distribution to see if it can configure the video card.
> 
> If you are interested in trying another distribution for install, I
> recommend Mandrake, it has good hardware detection, and a X config
> tool you can run from the command prompt.  Suse may have this also,
> I'm not familiar with it.

Yes, you can run Yast from the command line and select to configure the 
video card.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Wed Jan 12 10:34:09 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Wed Jan 12 10:34:09 2005
Subject: [ale] Consulting Gig
Message-ID: <1105543817.24077.18.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>

I have a job opening up. Normally we do not hire employees but
individuals on contract basis.  It is possible that the job could extend
to full-time employment in the near future since I'm filling a position
that we need.  This is a development position in which you'll be writing
code.  We operate in a bazaar like fashion.  We write code quick and
dirty because we have no time to plan stuff out like in a cathedral. 
Who does anymore.  You'll need to be creative because you will not be
given exact steps to accomplish tasks.  You'll be part of planning
discussions in which you opinion on how something could be accomplished
is valued. 

Things you'll be doing:
1. C under Linux
2. Perl under Linux
3. SNMP programming in C using the net-snmp API's
4.  Development for servers and embedded devices.


Over time this list can be expanded to include other nice things. 
Internal Linux knowledge is a must.  Contact me directly via email.  No
need to send resumes.  Just tell me about your self and what you do and
can do.


Thanks,
Chris





From mhirsch at nubridges.com  Wed Jan 12 10:55:56 2005
From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael Hirsch)
Date: Wed Jan 12 10:55:56 2005
Subject: [ale] Alternatives
Message-ID: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF043D6F23@germanium.numethods.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
Sean
> Kilpatrick
> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 7:13 PM
> To: Ale
> Subject: [ale] Alternatives
> 
> Long story made short:
>   Upgraded RH9 to FC3.
>   No application could find a printer.
>   After much banging my head against a wall and consulting
>   with my son I found my way to /etc/alternatives and the
>   command of the same name.
>   Read the man page -- three times, carefully. My eyes
>   glazed over each time.
>   My problem was that sym links were NOT pointing to the
>   proper cups file but to the (outdated) Lprng file.
> 
>   Finally got things sorted out, but am left with a plea:
> 
>   Would someone -- anyone -- be willing to give a 5-10 minute
>   explanation of <alternatives>  _with_ examples at an ALE
>   Central meeting?

And if they are, would they be willing to do it up front and do it so
everyone can hear?

Michael


From wormfishin at gmail.com  Wed Jan 12 11:05:45 2005
From: wormfishin at gmail.com (Nick Travis)
Date: Wed Jan 12 11:05:45 2005
Subject: [ale] Need help with Installation
In-Reply-To: <41E5403C.6020405@3times25.net>
References: <BAY102-F143ACA1A6377F871D4130BA0880@phx.gbl>
	<200501112304.02873.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<41E5403C.6020405@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <acb6c441050112080127350410@mail.gmail.com>

I've used a simular machine with simular results.  I had to lower the
video quality settings, even though the video card and the monitor
probed successfully the resolution and number of colors were too high.

Nick



On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 10:20:28 -0500, Geoffrey <esoteric at 3times25.net> wrote:
> Jay Loden wrote:
> > As others have suggested, try a live linux cd like knoppix or some
> > other distribution to see if it can configure the video card.
> >
> > If you are interested in trying another distribution for install, I
> > recommend Mandrake, it has good hardware detection, and a X config
> > tool you can run from the command prompt.  Suse may have this also,
> > I'm not familiar with it.
> 
> Yes, you can run Yast from the command line and select to configure the
> video card.
> 
> --
> Until later, Geoffrey
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>


From wormfishin at gmail.com  Wed Jan 12 11:24:05 2005
From: wormfishin at gmail.com (Nick Travis)
Date: Wed Jan 12 11:24:05 2005
Subject: [ale] Online Backup
Message-ID: <acb6c44105011208203ee508ec@mail.gmail.com>

Is there a way to create a full system backup, simular to a ghost
image, of a linux server remotely without taking the server offline? 
Could you do something like "tar -cf my-system.tar * "?  Or would this
fail due to files changing as the tar was being created.  Could rsync
be used, I was thinking it would have to same problem of files
changing though while it was syncing.  It's a pretty basic system, no
databases or anything, just dhcp named and a firewall.

Nick


From david.muse at firstworks.com  Wed Jan 12 11:43:23 2005
From: david.muse at firstworks.com (David Muse)
Date: Wed Jan 12 11:43:23 2005
Subject: [ale] Consulting Gig
In-Reply-To: <1105543817.24077.18.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
References: <1105543817.24077.18.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
Message-ID: <20050112113922.69f4196c@neptune.4accesscommunications.com>

Chris,

I'm in the market right now.

I've been doing embedded linux applications development in C++ for the
past couple of years in the exact kind of environment you're describing.
 I've done lots of server-side development too, most of which was
database oriented, web-based development.  Again, mostly in C++.

I have several open source projects:
	rudiments.sourceforge.net - c++ foundation classes
	sqlrelay.sourceforge.net - database connection pooling system
	stencil.sourceforge.net - template engine in c++

I'm primarily a C++ developer but I can do C as well.  My perl is
relatively weak but I could pull that up pretty fast.  I've just never
had a job that required perl before, so I kind of learned it in my
off-time.

I do have a resume on line if you'd like to check it out:
http://www.firstworks.com/resume.html

Thanks,

David Muse
david.muse at firstworks.com

On 12 Jan 2005 10:30:18 -0500
Christopher Fowler <cfowler at outpostsentinel.com> wrote:

> I have a job opening up. Normally we do not hire employees but
> individuals on contract basis.  It is possible that the job could
> extend to full-time employment in the near future since I'm filling a
> position that we need.  This is a development position in which you'll
> be writing code.  We operate in a bazaar like fashion.  We write code
> quick and dirty because we have no time to plan stuff out like in a
> cathedral. Who does anymore.  You'll need to be creative because you
> will not be given exact steps to accomplish tasks.  You'll be part of
> planning discussions in which you opinion on how something could be
> accomplished is valued. 
> 
> Things you'll be doing:
> 1. C under Linux
> 2. Perl under Linux
> 3. SNMP programming in C using the net-snmp API's
> 4.  Development for servers and embedded devices.
> 
> 
> Over time this list can be expanded to include other nice things. 
> Internal Linux knowledge is a must.  Contact me directly via email. 
> No need to send resumes.  Just tell me about your self and what you do
> and can do.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Wed Jan 12 11:44:14 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Wed Jan 12 11:44:14 2005
Subject: [ale] Online Backup
In-Reply-To: <acb6c44105011208203ee508ec@mail.gmail.com>
References: <acb6c44105011208203ee508ec@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41E552F1.9010504@3times25.net>

Nick Travis wrote:
> Is there a way to create a full system backup, simular to a ghost
> image, of a linux server remotely without taking the server offline? 
> Could you do something like "tar -cf my-system.tar * "?  Or would this
> fail due to files changing as the tar was being created.  Could rsync
> be used, I was thinking it would have to same problem of files
> changing though while it was syncing.  It's a pretty basic system, no
> databases or anything, just dhcp named and a firewall.

You could do this, but be a bit more selective.  For example, you don't 
want to pick up everything in /proc, the tar file will grow without end. 
  As for /proc, I've found you're good if you simply pick up the 
directories there.

You could be even more selective and reduce the size of the backup. 
There's plenty of stuff out there you don't generally need to backup 
like the system binaries.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From sergio at turbocorp.com  Wed Jan 12 11:45:46 2005
From: sergio at turbocorp.com (Sergio Chaves)
Date: Wed Jan 12 11:45:46 2005
Subject: [ale] Spooked USB card reader
Message-ID: <41E55341.9020804@turbocorp.com>

I opened my pictures on my multi-port card reader for the first time.
Everything OK.
Changed cards on reader, opened Konqueror, same old pictures were 
displayed again.
Mouse over it, displays the right picture (preview), thumbnails on file 
manager display old pictures.

The situation above is true for both Konqueror (Mdk 10.1/ SuSe 9.2)and 
Nautilus (Mdk).
M$ displays everything fine.

Copied files to home directory anyway and the right pictures were copied 
but with the wrong
names attached to it.

Clicking on the thumbnails to display pictures show me the the wrong 
ones fo a "split second"
and then the right ones come up fine.

Has anybody experienced that before?

 

-- 
  ?v?          Sergio Chaves            ?v?
 /(_)\       www.turbocorp.com         /(_)\   
  ^ ^    Enhanced Solutions Computing   ^ ^
               770.532.2239 
             Linux User #221305



From Jerry.Yu at Voicecom.com  Wed Jan 12 11:57:27 2005
From: Jerry.Yu at Voicecom.com (Yu, Jerry)
Date: Wed Jan 12 11:57:27 2005
Subject: [ale] Online Backup
Message-ID: <36EBF009F277D711870F00B0D049D03903666B9F@premess02.premtec.com>

I do this type of backups for all my linux servers and all full/partial
recoveries/replications have been succesful these many years. Also, I
normally gzip/gpg them before piping to the backup server, to reduce network
load and to reduce backup media usage.

As for exclusion, I use a file to list files/directories. "-X
list2exclude.txt" at the end of the tar command.

Note that the wildcard thingy for /proc. Tar will exclude everything under
/proc/ and still covers the mount point of /proc itself.
---cut---list2exclude.txt----cut--
./proc/*
./usr/share/doc
./usr/share/man
./usr/share/info/*.*
./dev/log
./you/got/the/idea
---cut---list2exclude.txt----cut--



# -----Original Message-----
# From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org]On Behalf Of
# Geoffrey
# Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 11:40 AM
# To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
# Subject: Re: [ale] Online Backup
# 
# 
# Nick Travis wrote:
# > Is there a way to create a full system backup, simular to a ghost
# > image, of a linux server remotely without taking the server 
# offline? 
# > Could you do something like "tar -cf my-system.tar * "?  Or 
# would this
# > fail due to files changing as the tar was being created.  
# Could rsync
# > be used, I was thinking it would have to same problem of files
# > changing though while it was syncing.  It's a pretty basic 
# system, no
# > databases or anything, just dhcp named and a firewall.
# 
# You could do this, but be a bit more selective.  For example, 
# you don't 
# want to pick up everything in /proc, the tar file will grow 
# without end. 
#   As for /proc, I've found you're good if you simply pick up the 
# directories there.
# 
# You could be even more selective and reduce the size of the backup. 
# There's plenty of stuff out there you don't generally need to backup 
# like the system binaries.
# 
# -- 
# Until later, Geoffrey
# _______________________________________________
# Ale mailing list
# Ale at ale.org
# http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
# 

This email and any attached files herein contain information that is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is legally privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable laws. If the reader of this message is not the recipient, any disclosure, dissemination, distribution, copying or other use or retention of this communication or its substance is prohibited.



From wormfishin at gmail.com  Wed Jan 12 12:40:26 2005
From: wormfishin at gmail.com (Nick Travis)
Date: Wed Jan 12 12:40:26 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux system(with raid controller) for sale
Message-ID: <acb6c441050112093676f46b5e@mail.gmail.com>

One of my friends is trying to sell his linux box he built this
summer.  He's asking $550 but will entertain other offers, the details
are below:

antec fileserver soho case & psu
intel mobo, integrated video, sound, nic
celeron 2.4
512 (2x256) corsair value ddr400
promise supertrak sx6000 hot-swappable hardware raid 5 ide controller w/ 128
mb ram
3 x 160 maxtor (3 yr warranty)
1 x 80 gig seagate
offboard nic
built it aug 2004, all new parts, has been running redhat 9 w/ lvm and has
been acting as my router, firewall, fileserver etc

If any other details are needed let me know.  Please email me off list
if interested.

Nick


From FishR at bellsouth.net  Wed Jan 12 13:22:13 2005
From: FishR at bellsouth.net (Ryan Fish)
Date: Wed Jan 12 13:22:13 2005
Subject: [ale] Time issue
Message-ID: <009801c4f8d3$724d8f50$6401a8c0@win2kpro1>

What could cause the time on a server running RHEL3 ES to change by roughly 3 hours at least two days in a row?

- Time zone is set to America/New York (EST)
- NTP is not in use
- Box has not been rebooted for 77+ days (so HWClock should have nothing to do with it)

Any ideas on where to look will be GREATLY appreciated.

Thank you.
-Ryan
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...



From esoteric at 3times25.net  Wed Jan 12 13:27:55 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Wed Jan 12 13:27:55 2005
Subject: [ale] Time issue
In-Reply-To: <009801c4f8d3$724d8f50$6401a8c0@win2kpro1>
References: <009801c4f8d3$724d8f50$6401a8c0@win2kpro1>
Message-ID: <41E56B30.1060302@3times25.net>

Ryan Fish wrote:
> What could cause the time on a server running RHEL3 ES to change by
> roughly 3 hours at least two days in a row?
> 
> - Time zone is set to America/New York (EST) - NTP is not in use -
> Box has not been rebooted for 77+ days (so HWClock should have
> nothing to do with it)
> 
> Any ideas on where to look will be GREATLY appreciated.

Don't know, but I'd start checking out the logs to see when it happened. 
  You should be able to easily identify a 3 hour jump.  From there, you 
could start checking out cron and such.  If it's something that's just 
started happening, I'd be concerned it's been hacked.

Are you sure it's not rebooted?  I'd verify that via the logs as well.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 12 13:31:55 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Wed Jan 12 13:31:55 2005
Subject: [ale] Time issue
In-Reply-To: <009801c4f8d3$724d8f50$6401a8c0@win2kpro1>
Message-ID: <20050112182602.6586.qmail@web54401.mail.yahoo.com>

I had the same problem on two separate boxen.

I fixed it by setting them up for NTP.

--jms


--- Ryan Fish <FishR at bellsouth.net> wrote:

> What could cause the time on a server running RHEL3
> ES to change by roughly 3 hours at least two days in
> a row?
> 
> - Time zone is set to America/New York (EST)
> - NTP is not in use
> - Box has not been rebooted for 77+ days (so HWClock
> should have nothing to do with it)
> 
> Any ideas on where to look will be GREATLY
> appreciated.
> 
> Thank you.
> -Ryan>
_______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Wed Jan 12 13:41:15 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Wed Jan 12 13:41:15 2005
Subject: [ale] Time issue
In-Reply-To: <20050112182602.6586.qmail@web54401.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20050112182602.6586.qmail@web54401.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <41E56E2E.6010803@3times25.net>

Jerald Sheets wrote:
> I had the same problem on two separate boxen.
> 
> I fixed it by setting them up for NTP.

I'd be greatly concerned with not finding out why a box lost or gained 3 
hours of time.  NTP is a great idea, but I think not as a bandaid.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From FishR at bellsouth.net  Wed Jan 12 13:43:02 2005
From: FishR at bellsouth.net (Ryan Fish)
Date: Wed Jan 12 13:43:02 2005
Subject: [ale] Time issue
References: <009801c4f8d3$724d8f50$6401a8c0@win2kpro1>
	<41E56B30.1060302@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <00a901c4f8d6$536ba5b0$6401a8c0@win2kpro1>

It just started happening sometime over this past weekend.

I am all but certain the box has not been rebooted.  "uptime" shows it has
been running for just over 77 days now and /var/log/dmesg hasn't been
updated since October.

Which log(s) would you recommend I look at?

I think I am just going to start using NTP on it...

Thank you.
-Ryan

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Geoffrey" <esoteric at 3times25.net>
To: "Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts" <ale at ale.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: [ale] Time issue


> Ryan Fish wrote:
> > What could cause the time on a server running RHEL3 ES to change by
> > roughly 3 hours at least two days in a row?
> >
> > - Time zone is set to America/New York (EST) - NTP is not in use -
> > Box has not been rebooted for 77+ days (so HWClock should have
> > nothing to do with it)
> >
> > Any ideas on where to look will be GREATLY appreciated.
>
> Don't know, but I'd start checking out the logs to see when it happened.
>   You should be able to easily identify a 3 hour jump.  From there, you
> could start checking out cron and such.  If it's something that's just
> started happening, I'd be concerned it's been hacked.
>
> Are you sure it's not rebooted?  I'd verify that via the logs as well.
>
> -- 
> Until later, Geoffrey
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>



From mike at tyderia.net  Wed Jan 12 13:48:05 2005
From: mike at tyderia.net (Mike Murphy)
Date: Wed Jan 12 13:48:05 2005
Subject: [ale] Time issue
In-Reply-To: <00a901c4f8d6$536ba5b0$6401a8c0@win2kpro1>
References: <009801c4f8d3$724d8f50$6401a8c0@win2kpro1>	<41E56B30.1060302@3times25.net>
	<00a901c4f8d6$536ba5b0$6401a8c0@win2kpro1>
Message-ID: <41E56FE7.6020103@tyderia.net>

what's in /etc/sysconfig/clock?

Ryan Fish wrote:
> It just started happening sometime over this past weekend.
> 
> I am all but certain the box has not been rebooted.  "uptime" shows it has
> been running for just over 77 days now and /var/log/dmesg hasn't been
> updated since October.
> 
> Which log(s) would you recommend I look at?
> 
> I think I am just going to start using NTP on it...
> 
> Thank you.
> -Ryan
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Geoffrey" <esoteric at 3times25.net>
> To: "Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts" <ale at ale.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 1:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [ale] Time issue
> 
> 
> 
>>Ryan Fish wrote:
>>
>>>What could cause the time on a server running RHEL3 ES to change by
>>>roughly 3 hours at least two days in a row?
>>>
>>>- Time zone is set to America/New York (EST) - NTP is not in use -
>>>Box has not been rebooted for 77+ days (so HWClock should have
>>>nothing to do with it)
>>>
>>>Any ideas on where to look will be GREATLY appreciated.
>>
>>Don't know, but I'd start checking out the logs to see when it happened.
>>  You should be able to easily identify a 3 hour jump.  From there, you
>>could start checking out cron and such.  If it's something that's just
>>started happening, I'd be concerned it's been hacked.
>>
>>Are you sure it's not rebooted?  I'd verify that via the logs as well.
>>
>>-- 
>>Until later, Geoffrey
>>_______________________________________________
>>Ale mailing list
>>Ale at ale.org
>>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

-- 

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Mike Murphy
781 Inman Mews Drive Atlanta GA 30307
Landline: 404-653-1070
Mobile: 404-545-6234
Email: mike at tyderia.net
AIM: mmichael453
JDAM: 33:45:14.0584N  84:21:43.038W
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+


From mike at tyderia.net  Wed Jan 12 13:48:50 2005
From: mike at tyderia.net (Mike Murphy)
Date: Wed Jan 12 13:48:50 2005
Subject: [ale] Time issue
In-Reply-To: <00a901c4f8d6$536ba5b0$6401a8c0@win2kpro1>
References: <009801c4f8d3$724d8f50$6401a8c0@win2kpro1>	<41E56B30.1060302@3times25.net>
	<00a901c4f8d6$536ba5b0$6401a8c0@win2kpro1>
Message-ID: <41E5700A.7070401@tyderia.net>

also, what's in /etc/adjtime (if anything)?

Ryan Fish wrote:
> It just started happening sometime over this past weekend.
> 
> I am all but certain the box has not been rebooted.  "uptime" shows it has
> been running for just over 77 days now and /var/log/dmesg hasn't been
> updated since October.
> 
> Which log(s) would you recommend I look at?
> 
> I think I am just going to start using NTP on it...
> 
> Thank you.
> -Ryan
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Geoffrey" <esoteric at 3times25.net>
> To: "Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts" <ale at ale.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 1:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [ale] Time issue
> 
> 
> 
>>Ryan Fish wrote:
>>
>>>What could cause the time on a server running RHEL3 ES to change by
>>>roughly 3 hours at least two days in a row?
>>>
>>>- Time zone is set to America/New York (EST) - NTP is not in use -
>>>Box has not been rebooted for 77+ days (so HWClock should have
>>>nothing to do with it)
>>>
>>>Any ideas on where to look will be GREATLY appreciated.
>>
>>Don't know, but I'd start checking out the logs to see when it happened.
>>  You should be able to easily identify a 3 hour jump.  From there, you
>>could start checking out cron and such.  If it's something that's just
>>started happening, I'd be concerned it's been hacked.
>>
>>Are you sure it's not rebooted?  I'd verify that via the logs as well.
>>
>>-- 
>>Until later, Geoffrey
>>_______________________________________________
>>Ale mailing list
>>Ale at ale.org
>>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

-- 

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Mike Murphy
781 Inman Mews Drive Atlanta GA 30307
Landline: 404-653-1070
Mobile: 404-545-6234
Email: mike at tyderia.net
AIM: mmichael453
JDAM: 33:45:14.0584N  84:21:43.038W
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Wed Jan 12 13:51:09 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Wed Jan 12 13:51:09 2005
Subject: [ale] Time issue
In-Reply-To: <00a901c4f8d6$536ba5b0$6401a8c0@win2kpro1>
References: <009801c4f8d3$724d8f50$6401a8c0@win2kpro1>	<41E56B30.1060302@3times25.net>
	<00a901c4f8d6$536ba5b0$6401a8c0@win2kpro1>
Message-ID: <41E570B3.1070905@3times25.net>

Ryan Fish wrote:
> It just started happening sometime over this past weekend.
> 
> I am all but certain the box has not been rebooted.  "uptime" shows it has
> been running for just over 77 days now and /var/log/dmesg hasn't been
> updated since October.
> 
> Which log(s) would you recommend I look at?

Generally, /var/log/messages will at least contain mark logs to 
demonstate the logs are still functioning.  I would think you'd find a 
gap in there somewhere.

> 
> I think I am just going to start using NTP on it...

I'd still be concerned as to why the gap is occurring.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 12 13:52:49 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Wed Jan 12 13:52:49 2005
Subject: [ale] Time issue
In-Reply-To: <41E56E2E.6010803@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <20050112184849.33426.qmail@web54407.mail.yahoo.com>

There was a pile of "time" issues recently with the RH
family (EL, FC, etc.) in kernel, ntpd, permissions on
/etc/localtime, yada yada.

I'm in a kernel-level lock and a feature-level lock,
and can't apply anything but security patches as
suggested by the application vendor.  

their recommendation was to turn on ntp.

Were I to kernel upgrade or anything else....WHACKO! 
unsupported.


Band aid, yes.
Problematic, yes.
Required, yes.

--J



--- Geoffrey <esoteric at 3times25.net> wrote:

> Jerald Sheets wrote:
> > I had the same problem on two separate boxen.
> > 
> > I fixed it by setting them up for NTP.
> 
> I'd be greatly concerned with not finding out why a
> box lost or gained 3 
> hours of time.  NTP is a great idea, but I think not
> as a bandaid.
> 
> -- 
> Until later, Geoffrey
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 


From FishR at bellsouth.net  Wed Jan 12 13:54:13 2005
From: FishR at bellsouth.net (Ryan Fish)
Date: Wed Jan 12 13:54:13 2005
Subject: [ale] Time issue
References: <009801c4f8d3$724d8f50$6401a8c0@win2kpro1>	<41E56B30.1060302@3times25.net><00a901c4f8d6$536ba5b0$6401a8c0@win2kpro1>
	<41E56FE7.6020103@tyderia.net>
Message-ID: <00d601c4f8d8$13d0c550$6401a8c0@win2kpro1>

/etc/sysconfig/clock
ZONE="America/New_York"
UTC=false
ARC=false

/etc/adjtime
-37.920934 1105545408 0.000000
1105545408
LOCAL


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Murphy" <mike at tyderia.net>
To: "Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts" <ale at ale.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: [ale] Time issue


> what's in /etc/sysconfig/clock?
>
> Ryan Fish wrote:
> > It just started happening sometime over this past weekend.
> >
> > I am all but certain the box has not been rebooted.  "uptime" shows it
has
> > been running for just over 77 days now and /var/log/dmesg hasn't been
> > updated since October.
> >
> > Which log(s) would you recommend I look at?
> >
> > I think I am just going to start using NTP on it...
> >
> > Thank you.
> > -Ryan
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Geoffrey" <esoteric at 3times25.net>
> > To: "Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts" <ale at ale.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 1:23 PM
> > Subject: Re: [ale] Time issue
> >
> >
> >
> >>Ryan Fish wrote:
> >>
> >>>What could cause the time on a server running RHEL3 ES to change by
> >>>roughly 3 hours at least two days in a row?
> >>>
> >>>- Time zone is set to America/New York (EST) - NTP is not in use -
> >>>Box has not been rebooted for 77+ days (so HWClock should have
> >>>nothing to do with it)
> >>>
> >>>Any ideas on where to look will be GREATLY appreciated.
> >>
> >>Don't know, but I'd start checking out the logs to see when it happened.
> >>  You should be able to easily identify a 3 hour jump.  From there, you
> >>could start checking out cron and such.  If it's something that's just
> >>started happening, I'd be concerned it's been hacked.
> >>
> >>Are you sure it's not rebooted?  I'd verify that via the logs as well.
> >>
> >>-- 
> >>Until later, Geoffrey
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Ale mailing list
> >>Ale at ale.org
> >>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
> -- 
>
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> Mike Murphy
> 781 Inman Mews Drive Atlanta GA 30307
> Landline: 404-653-1070
> Mobile: 404-545-6234
> Email: mike at tyderia.net
> AIM: mmichael453
> JDAM: 33:45:14.0584N  84:21:43.038W
> +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>



From bluejay at speedfactory.net  Wed Jan 12 14:23:35 2005
From: bluejay at speedfactory.net (Jim Seymour)
Date: Wed Jan 12 14:23:35 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux router help needed......solved
In-Reply-To: <41E400A8.3000504@wolfnet.org>
References: <20050111153927.GA6878@speedfactory.net>
	<41E3F5A2.3020101@atlanta.nsc.com>
	<20050111161826.GB6878@speedfactory.net>
	<41E400A8.3000504@wolfnet.org>
Message-ID: <20050112191311.GB8776@speedfactory.net>

On Tue, Jan 11, 2005 at 11:36:56AM -0500, Jason Fritcher wrote:
> Jim Seymour wrote:
> >I looked at my dhcpd.conf file and couldn't see any reference to
> >setting the gateway address in the examples. Could the problem be in
> >another place?
> 
> In your subnet declaration, add the following...
> 
> option routers <router ip address>;
>

Many thanks to all the pointers folks. It turned out to be the wrong
routers declaration as well as adding a nameserver declaration. Scott
Martin walked me through the discovery of my errors. Hope to be able to
return the favor.

Thanks Again,

Jim Seymour


From jloden at toughguy.net  Wed Jan 12 14:40:17 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Wed Jan 12 14:40:17 2005
Subject: [ale] Spooked USB card reader
In-Reply-To: <41E55341.9020804@turbocorp.com>
References: <41E55341.9020804@turbocorp.com>
Message-ID: <200501121433.58209.jloden@toughguy.net>

I had a similar situation happen with CDs on Mandrake.

It only ever happened when the automount would apparently fail, and I'd remove 
the CD, and it wouldnt detect that I'd removed it. 

You might want to try manually umounting the drive after you're done copying 
the photos, then mount it when you read off a new card. Unmounting the cdrom 
drive works for me when this occasionally happens. 

-Jay

On Wednesday 12 January 2005 11:41, Sergio Chaves wrote:
> I opened my pictures on my multi-port card reader for the first time.
> Everything OK.
> Changed cards on reader, opened Konqueror, same old pictures were
> displayed again.
> Mouse over it, displays the right picture (preview), thumbnails on file
> manager display old pictures.
>
> The situation above is true for both Konqueror (Mdk 10.1/ SuSe 9.2)and
> Nautilus (Mdk).
> M$ displays everything fine.
>
> Copied files to home directory anyway and the right pictures were copied
> but with the wrong
> names attached to it.
>
> Clicking on the thumbnails to display pictures show me the the wrong
> ones fo a "split second"
> and then the right ones come up fine.
>
> Has anybody experienced that before?


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Wed Jan 12 16:32:15 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Wed Jan 12 16:32:15 2005
Subject: [ale] Time issue
In-Reply-To: <20050112184849.33426.qmail@web54407.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20050112184849.33426.qmail@web54407.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <41E59677.5060403@3times25.net>

Jerald Sheets wrote:
> There was a pile of "time" issues recently with the RH
> family (EL, FC, etc.) in kernel, ntpd, permissions on
> /etc/localtime, yada yada.
> 
> I'm in a kernel-level lock and a feature-level lock,
> and can't apply anything but security patches as
> suggested by the application vendor.  
> 
> their recommendation was to turn on ntp.
> 
> Were I to kernel upgrade or anything else....WHACKO! 
> unsupported.
> 
> 
> Band aid, yes.
> Problematic, yes.
> Required, yes.

Fair enough, but I would recommend someone use the same solution without 
researching why this suddenly happened.  You are restricted by your 
vendor as well as have some insight into the issue.  I've not heard of 
any time issues with kernels of late, thus I'd still recommend some 
research.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 12 16:36:56 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Wed Jan 12 16:36:56 2005
Subject: [ale] Time issue
In-Reply-To: <41E59677.5060403@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <20050112213250.72208.qmail@web54407.mail.yahoo.com>

I'll see if I can scare it up.

there was a specific kernel issue with a specific
kernel upgrade that fixed the ES3 issue, and the FC3
issue was bad permissions, easily enough fixed.

I remember finding it on google.

--J



--- Geoffrey <esoteric at 3times25.net> wrote:

> Jerald Sheets wrote:
> > There was a pile of "time" issues recently with
> the RH
> > family (EL, FC, etc.) in kernel, ntpd, permissions
> on
> > /etc/localtime, yada yada.
> > 
> > I'm in a kernel-level lock and a feature-level
> lock,
> > and can't apply anything but security patches as
> > suggested by the application vendor.  
> > 
> > their recommendation was to turn on ntp.
> > 
> > Were I to kernel upgrade or anything
> else....WHACKO! 
> > unsupported.
> > 
> > 
> > Band aid, yes.
> > Problematic, yes.
> > Required, yes.
> 
> Fair enough, but I would recommend someone use the
> same solution without 
> researching why this suddenly happened.  You are
> restricted by your 
> vendor as well as have some insight into the issue. 
> I've not heard of 
> any time issues with kernels of late, thus I'd still
> recommend some 
> research.
> 
> -- 
> Until later, Geoffrey
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 


From cor.angela at mindspring.com  Wed Jan 12 16:55:25 2005
From: cor.angela at mindspring.com (Cor van Dijk)
Date: Wed Jan 12 16:55:25 2005
Subject: [ale] Need help with Installation
In-Reply-To: <41E46FA0.1090101@3times25.net>
References: <BAY102-F39F1B88D71779F94662FAAA0880@phx.gbl>
	<41E46FA0.1090101@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <41E59CE7.602@mindspring.com>

Geoffrey wrote:

> Tomek Skurzak wrote:
>
>> i am new to Linux. I tried to install Yoper and Suse. In both cases I 
>> had problems with the video card. The bottom line is that I can not 
>> see anything on the screen after the linux boots up. Even when I try 
>> to adjust the screen visuals inside the monitor.
>>
>> Would you know any commands in the shell I could use to change the 
>> graphics? or any other suggestions?
>>
>> The box is IBM  PII 300MHz.
>
>
> Do you know what video card it has?  Switch to a virtual console 
> (ctrl-alt-F3 should work) and then check out /var/log/XFree86.0.log or 
> /var/log/Xorg.0.log depending on what version you're running.  If you 
> can't figure out what's going on there, post the contents of the log 
> file and we'll go from there.

I had the exact same card and tried to install Suse8.2 a while back. Did 
not work. Contacted Suse about this. Was told that they consider this an 
obsolete card and sorry, no help.
Good luck, Cor van Dijk




From mhirsch at nubridges.com  Wed Jan 12 16:56:39 2005
From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael Hirsch)
Date: Wed Jan 12 16:56:39 2005
Subject: [ale] JOB: [harbingeralumni] Short Term Contract Positions @
	Scientific Games
Message-ID: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF043D7012@germanium.numethods.com>

 

	-------------- Forwarded Message: -------------- 
	From: "dezlock" <jfoster at atlantagothic.net> 
	Subject: [harbingeralumni] Short Term Contract Positions @
Scientific Games 
	Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 17:16:56 +0000 
	
	
	Our Network Operations department has two contract openings. If
	interested email your resume to me. Position #2 is approximately
80%
	travel.
	
	Position 1
	
	Project Name: Corporate Headquarters Firewall Hardware Migration
	Project Description:
	Migrate a CheckPoint Firewall NG environment from the current
Nokia
	IP-440 platform to a Crossbeam X40 platform. This will entail
project
	management and hands-on time. At the end of the project, a
complete
	hand-off to the current network staff will be required.
	
	Requirements:
	* Coordinate planning, configuration, testing, and implementa!
tion with
	Network staff and equipment vendor
	* Upgrade CheckPoint to the latest version
	* Physical installation of equipment
	* Determine and coordinate the installation of electrical power
	* Determine and coordinate the internal network connectivity and
	physical cabling
	* Assist in policy consolidation
	* Diagram and Document creation
	
	Skill Requirements:
	* CheckPoint Firewall Administration / Engineering experience
	* Crossbeam experience is a plus
	* Project Management
	* Cisco 6500 or equivalent experience
	* Routing experience
	* VLAN experience
	* MS Visio
	
	Duration: 3 months
	
	
	Position 2
	Project Name: Remote office information security implementation
	Project Description:
	Build and install Astaro Secure Linux firewalls / IDS in
approximately
	12 remote offices locations. This will entail project management
and
	hands-on time. At the end of the project, a complete hand-off to
the
	current network s! taff will be required.
	
	Requirements:
	* Coordinate planning, configuration, testing, and
implementation with
	Network staff and equipment vendor
	* Traveling and After-hours work is required
	* Coordinate purchasing of hardware and software
	* Physical installation of equipment
	* Determine and coordinate the installation of electrical power
	* Determine and coordinate the internal network connectivity and
	physical cabling
	* Assist in policy consolidation
	* Diagram and Document creation
	
	Skill Requirements:
	* Firewall Administration / Engineering experience
	* Linux experience
	* Project Management
	* Routing experience
	* VLAN experience a plus
	* MS Visio
	
	Duration: 6 months
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
	

	
  _____  


	Yahoo! Groups Links

	*	To visit your group on the web, go to:
		http://groups.yahoo.com/group/harbingeralumni/
		  
	*	To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
		harbingeralumni-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
<mailto:harbingeralumni-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

		  
	*	Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . 

	
	
	

-------------- next part --------------
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From ringo at margaritasrus.com  Wed Jan 12 17:51:27 2005
From: ringo at margaritasrus.com (ringo)
Date: Wed Jan 12 17:51:27 2005
Subject: [ale] Newbie and Dual install
In-Reply-To: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF043D6E16@germanium.numethods.com>
Message-ID: <015d01c4f8f8$b13588b0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>

I downloaded SUSE and made a cd. Actually I don't know that I made the
cd correctly so I'm going to do that part again, but my question is
this: There are several READme files on the CD that say be sure to read
the README in the DOCU directory or I'll lose files when I partition.
There is a DOCU directory, but no README in there. Any idea where I can
find this file?
Thanks
Ringo


-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
Michael Hirsch
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 5:07 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: RE: [ale] Newbie and Dual install



> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
ringo
> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 4:12 PM
> To: 'Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts'
> Subject: [ale] Newbie and Dual install
> 
> I'm brand new to Linux but I'm taking a course at Ga. Tech that
requires
> I use the software from http://playerstage.sourceforge.net/index.html
> which only runs on Linux. I have a Compaq laptop with a Pentium
running
> at 475Mhz with 192MB of Ram and 2 gig free hard drive space. It
> currently has windows 98 on it and I would like to keep it because
some
> of my compilers and programs require it.
> Is this enough room to install Linux?

Yes.  If you install everything you could run out of space, but if you
only install what you need it is okay.

> Which version do you recommend?

I recommend whatever your best Linux-using friend uses.  :-)  I am
personally fond of Mandrake or SuSE for beginners.  I wouldn't recommend
Debian or Slackware until you are more experienced.

> How hard is it to install it and keep the windows?

That is standard.  You'll need to defrag the disk (in windows) and split
off the free space.  I think that most distributions walk you through
this, though it's been so long since I did this that I'm quite unsure
about that.

> Is there a site that will walk me though the installation?

A google search will turn up any number of such things.  The easiest way
is to go to Fry's or CompUSA and by a copy of SuSE and then you get a
manual to go with it.  It is actually easier than installing Windows,
and I'm sure you can do it.

Michael


_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale




From ringo at margaritasrus.com  Wed Jan 12 18:02:55 2005
From: ringo at margaritasrus.com (ringo)
Date: Wed Jan 12 18:02:55 2005
Subject: [ale] Newbie and Dual install
In-Reply-To: <015d01c4f8f8$b13588b0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
Message-ID: <016301c4f8fa$4e6b16d0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>

I was thinking of going to FRY's and picking up a real copy of SUSE, but
looking on the webpage it says it costs $90, is this normal?
Ringo


-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
ringo
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 5:47 PM
To: 'Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts'
Subject: RE: [ale] Newbie and Dual install

I downloaded SUSE and made a cd. Actually I don't know that I made the
cd correctly so I'm going to do that part again, but my question is
this: There are several READme files on the CD that say be sure to read
the README in the DOCU directory or I'll lose files when I partition.
There is a DOCU directory, but no README in there. Any idea where I can
find this file?
Thanks
Ringo


-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
Michael Hirsch
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 5:07 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: RE: [ale] Newbie and Dual install



> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
ringo
> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 4:12 PM
> To: 'Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts'
> Subject: [ale] Newbie and Dual install
> 
> I'm brand new to Linux but I'm taking a course at Ga. Tech that
requires
> I use the software from http://playerstage.sourceforge.net/index.html
> which only runs on Linux. I have a Compaq laptop with a Pentium
running
> at 475Mhz with 192MB of Ram and 2 gig free hard drive space. It
> currently has windows 98 on it and I would like to keep it because
some
> of my compilers and programs require it.
> Is this enough room to install Linux?

Yes.  If you install everything you could run out of space, but if you
only install what you need it is okay.

> Which version do you recommend?

I recommend whatever your best Linux-using friend uses.  :-)  I am
personally fond of Mandrake or SuSE for beginners.  I wouldn't recommend
Debian or Slackware until you are more experienced.

> How hard is it to install it and keep the windows?

That is standard.  You'll need to defrag the disk (in windows) and split
off the free space.  I think that most distributions walk you through
this, though it's been so long since I did this that I'm quite unsure
about that.

> Is there a site that will walk me though the installation?

A google search will turn up any number of such things.  The easiest way
is to go to Fry's or CompUSA and by a copy of SuSE and then you get a
manual to go with it.  It is actually easier than installing Windows,
and I'm sure you can do it.

Michael


_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale



_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale




From greg.freemyer at gmail.com  Wed Jan 12 18:11:01 2005
From: greg.freemyer at gmail.com (Greg Freemyer)
Date: Wed Jan 12 18:11:01 2005
Subject: [ale] Online Backup
In-Reply-To: <acb6c44105011208203ee508ec@mail.gmail.com>
References: <acb6c44105011208203ee508ec@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87f94c3705011215074484d8db@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 11:20:11 -0500, Nick Travis <wormfishin at gmail.com> wrote:
> Is there a way to create a full system backup, simular to a ghost
> image, of a linux server remotely without taking the server offline?
> Could you do something like "tar -cf my-system.tar * "?  Or would this
> fail due to files changing as the tar was being created.  Could rsync
> be used, I was thinking it would have to same problem of files
> changing though while it was syncing.  It's a pretty basic system, no
> databases or anything, just dhcp named and a firewall.
> 
> Nick
 
I have not used it, but partimage is supposed to be similar to ghost.

I'm not sure what filesystems it supports, nor if it works online.

Greg


From rb211 at tds.net  Wed Jan 12 18:19:42 2005
From: rb211 at tds.net (William Bagwell)
Date: Wed Jan 12 18:19:42 2005
Subject: [ale] Newbie and Dual install
In-Reply-To: <016301c4f8fa$4e6b16d0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
References: <016301c4f8fa$4e6b16d0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
Message-ID: <200501121814.47033.rb211@tds.net>

On Wednesday 12 January 2005 05:58 pm, ringo wrote:
> I was thinking of going to FRY's and picking up a real copy of SUSE, but
> looking on the webpage it says it costs $90, is this normal?

This sounds like a power-pack price. In Mandrake a plain boxed set with 
manuals is about half this. Download edition from a cheep CD vendor such as
cheapbytes.com (or others) runs about $10.

Just checked and they have SUSE for $9. 

May also find it with a magazine for about this same price. Check a large 
bookstore such as Barns & Nobel (sp). Last months Linux Magizine had SUSE, 
perhaps some other one will have it this month.
-- 
William


From skurzak at hotmail.com  Wed Jan 12 18:32:56 2005
From: skurzak at hotmail.com (Tomek Skurzak)
Date: Wed Jan 12 18:32:56 2005
Subject: [ale] Need help with Installation
References: <BAY102-F39F1B88D71779F94662FAAA0880@phx.gbl><41E46FA0.1090101@3times25.net>
	<41E59CE7.602@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <BAY102-DAV9A0DF865C8A9A9FEA3425A0890@phx.gbl>

> Geoffrey wrote:
>
> > Tomek Skurzak wrote:
> >
> >> i am new to Linux. I tried to install Yoper and Suse. In both cases I
> >> had problems with the video card. The bottom line is that I can not
> >> see anything on the screen after the linux boots up. Even when I try
> >> to adjust the screen visuals inside the monitor.
> >>
> >> Would you know any commands in the shell I could use to change the
> >> graphics? or any other suggestions?
> >>
> >> The box is IBM  PII 300MHz.
> >
> >
> > Do you know what video card it has?  Switch to a virtual console
> > (ctrl-alt-F3 should work) and then check out /var/log/XFree86.0.log or
> > /var/log/Xorg.0.log depending on what version you're running.  If you
> > can't figure out what's going on there, post the contents of the log
> > file and we'll go from there.
>
> I had the exact same card and tried to install Suse8.2 a while back. Did
> not work. Contacted Suse about this. Was told that they consider this an
> obsolete card and sorry, no help.
> Good luck, Cor van Dijk

Do you know any other version of linux (excluding Suse and Yoper) that would
run with S3 Trio64V2 video controller?


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Wed Jan 12 18:44:35 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Wed Jan 12 18:44:35 2005
Subject: [ale] Newbie and Dual install
In-Reply-To: <016301c4f8fa$4e6b16d0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
References: <016301c4f8fa$4e6b16d0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
Message-ID: <41E5B57C.5020104@3times25.net>

ringo wrote:
> I was thinking of going to FRY's and picking up a real copy of SUSE, but
> looking on the webpage it says it costs $90, is this normal?

Pretty much if you pick it up that way.  Where are you located?  I'd be 
glad to burn you a copy of my SuSE 9.2 pro dvd.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Wed Jan 12 18:48:56 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Wed Jan 12 18:48:56 2005
Subject: [ale] Newbie and Dual install
In-Reply-To: <200501121814.47033.rb211@tds.net>
References: <016301c4f8fa$4e6b16d0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
	<200501121814.47033.rb211@tds.net>
Message-ID: <41E5B679.1010108@3times25.net>

William Bagwell wrote:
> On Wednesday 12 January 2005 05:58 pm, ringo wrote:
> 
>>I was thinking of going to FRY's and picking up a real copy of SUSE, but
>>looking on the webpage it says it costs $90, is this normal?
> 
> This sounds like a power-pack price. In Mandrake a plain boxed set with 
> manuals is about half this. Download edition from a cheep CD vendor such as
> cheapbytes.com (or others) runs about $10.

I'm not sure what you mean by powerpack.  It's likely the pro version of 
SuSE based on that price.

> 
> Just checked and they have SUSE for $9.

I think not.  Maybe the live eval for that price.  I see Suse 9.2 pro 
for $85 at cheapbytes.  Gotta link for the $9 one?

> May also find it with a magazine for about this same price. Check a large 
> bookstore such as Barns & Nobel (sp). Last months Linux Magizine had SUSE, 
> perhaps some other one will have it this month.

You're not going to get Suse 9.2 pro for $9, it's not going to happen. 
I'd love for someone to prove me wrong though.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Wed Jan 12 18:51:00 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Wed Jan 12 18:51:00 2005
Subject: [ale] Need help with Installation
In-Reply-To: <BAY102-DAV9A0DF865C8A9A9FEA3425A0890@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY102-F39F1B88D71779F94662FAAA0880@phx.gbl><41E46FA0.1090101@3times25.net>	<41E59CE7.602@mindspring.com>
	<BAY102-DAV9A0DF865C8A9A9FEA3425A0890@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <41E5B6F1.5080701@3times25.net>

Tomek Skurzak wrote:
>>Geoffrey wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Tomek Skurzak wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>i am new to Linux. I tried to install Yoper and Suse. In both cases I
>>>>had problems with the video card. The bottom line is that I can not
>>>>see anything on the screen after the linux boots up. Even when I try
>>>>to adjust the screen visuals inside the monitor.
>>>>
>>>>Would you know any commands in the shell I could use to change the
>>>>graphics? or any other suggestions?
>>>>
>>>>The box is IBM  PII 300MHz.
>>>
>>>
>>>Do you know what video card it has?  Switch to a virtual console
>>>(ctrl-alt-F3 should work) and then check out /var/log/XFree86.0.log or
>>>/var/log/Xorg.0.log depending on what version you're running.  If you
>>>can't figure out what's going on there, post the contents of the log
>>>file and we'll go from there.
>>
>>I had the exact same card and tried to install Suse8.2 a while back. Did
>>not work. Contacted Suse about this. Was told that they consider this an
>>obsolete card and sorry, no help.
>>Good luck, Cor van Dijk
> 
> 
> Do you know any other version of linux (excluding Suse and Yoper) that would
> run with S3 Trio64V2 video controller?

I'm surprised Suse would say it's an obsolete card.  I'm running cards 
much older than that on Suse 9.2.  You might download the suse live eval 
and give it a spin.  Or go with a knoppix cd as others have noted.

What version of Suse did you try?

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From ringo at margaritasrus.com  Wed Jan 12 18:52:01 2005
From: ringo at margaritasrus.com (ringo)
Date: Wed Jan 12 18:52:01 2005
Subject: [ale] Newbie and Dual install
In-Reply-To: <41E5B57C.5020104@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <000601c4f901$094cd410$bb00a8c0@Ringo>

I got it to boot finally, but I'm afraid of losing my windows data. Any
chance someone could call me and walk me through the part of the
installation that I could screw something up? Email me at
Ringo at MargaritasRus.com and either I'll call you or you can call me
either one.
Thanks,
Ringo


-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
Geoffrey
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 6:41 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] Newbie and Dual install

ringo wrote:
> I was thinking of going to FRY's and picking up a real copy of SUSE,
but
> looking on the webpage it says it costs $90, is this normal?

Pretty much if you pick it up that way.  Where are you located?  I'd be 
glad to burn you a copy of my SuSE 9.2 pro dvd.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale




From skurzak at hotmail.com  Wed Jan 12 18:57:25 2005
From: skurzak at hotmail.com (Tomek Skurzak)
Date: Wed Jan 12 18:57:25 2005
Subject: [ale] Need help with Installation
References: <BAY102-F39F1B88D71779F94662FAAA0880@phx.gbl><41E46FA0.1090101@3times25.net>	<41E59CE7.602@mindspring.com><BAY102-DAV9A0DF865C8A9A9FEA3425A0890@phx.gbl>
	<41E5B6F1.5080701@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <BAY102-DAV53A29089C93C64D2D0659A0890@phx.gbl>




> Tomek Skurzak wrote:
> >>Geoffrey wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Tomek Skurzak wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>i am new to Linux. I tried to install Yoper and Suse. In both cases I
> >>>>had problems with the video card. The bottom line is that I can not
> >>>>see anything on the screen after the linux boots up. Even when I try
> >>>>to adjust the screen visuals inside the monitor.
> >>>>
> >>>>Would you know any commands in the shell I could use to change the
> >>>>graphics? or any other suggestions?
> >>>>
> >>>>The box is IBM  PII 300MHz.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Do you know what video card it has?  Switch to a virtual console
> >>>(ctrl-alt-F3 should work) and then check out /var/log/XFree86.0.log or
> >>>/var/log/Xorg.0.log depending on what version you're running.  If you
> >>>can't figure out what's going on there, post the contents of the log
> >>>file and we'll go from there.
> >>
> >>I had the exact same card and tried to install Suse8.2 a while back. Did
> >>not work. Contacted Suse about this. Was told that they consider this an
> >>obsolete card and sorry, no help.
> >>Good luck, Cor van Dijk
> >
> >
> > Do you know any other version of linux (excluding Suse and Yoper) that
would
> > run with S3 Trio64V2 video controller?
>
> I'm surprised Suse would say it's an obsolete card.  I'm running cards
> much older than that on Suse 9.2.  You might download the suse live eval
> and give it a spin.  Or go with a knoppix cd as others have noted.
>
> What version of Suse did you try?

As I can remember 9.1.


From rb211 at tds.net  Wed Jan 12 19:01:09 2005
From: rb211 at tds.net (William Bagwell)
Date: Wed Jan 12 19:01:09 2005
Subject: [ale] Newbie and Dual install
In-Reply-To: <41E5B679.1010108@3times25.net>
References: <016301c4f8fa$4e6b16d0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
	<200501121814.47033.rb211@tds.net> <41E5B679.1010108@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <200501121856.15116.rb211@tds.net>

On Wednesday 12 January 2005 06:44 pm, Geoffrey wrote:

> I think not. ?Maybe the live eval for that price. ?I see Suse 9.2 pro
> for $85 at cheapbytes. ?Gotta link for the $9 one?

Not implying he could get the pro version for that price. Basically your 
paying them to burn your download edition... This is great for us dial up 
users. Plus with Mandrake I can get it from them *before* non club members 
can even start downloading:)

Psst, the $9 SUSE is just below the $85 one on the main page.
-- 
William


From rb211 at tds.net  Wed Jan 12 19:09:18 2005
From: rb211 at tds.net (William Bagwell)
Date: Wed Jan 12 19:09:18 2005
Subject: [ale] Newbie and Dual install
In-Reply-To: <200501121856.15116.rb211@tds.net>
References: <016301c4f8fa$4e6b16d0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
	<41E5B679.1010108@3times25.net> <200501121856.15116.rb211@tds.net>
Message-ID: <200501121903.58732.rb211@tds.net>

On Wednesday 12 January 2005 06:56 pm, William Bagwell wrote:
> Psst, the $9 SUSE is just below the $85 one on the main page.

Oops, that's the *live* version. 
-- 
William


From jimmyc at speedfactory.net  Wed Jan 12 19:09:56 2005
From: jimmyc at speedfactory.net (Jim Philips)
Date: Wed Jan 12 19:09:56 2005
Subject: [ale] commercial version of PostgreSQL
Message-ID: <200501121905.00440.jimmyc@speedfactory.net>

Pervasive Software has announced the release of its own version of PostgreSQL. 
This could help PostgreSQL to gain ground on MySQL. MySQL has benefitted 
greatly from having a company and a marketing plan behind it. Maybe 
PostgreSQL can catch up now.

article here:

http://www.techworld.com/applications/news/index.cfm?NewsID=2915&Page=1&pagePos=5

Pervasive's site:

http://www.pervasive-postgres.com


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Wed Jan 12 19:46:07 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Wed Jan 12 19:46:07 2005
Subject: [ale] Newbie and Dual install
In-Reply-To: <200501121856.15116.rb211@tds.net>
References: <016301c4f8fa$4e6b16d0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>	<200501121814.47033.rb211@tds.net>
	<41E5B679.1010108@3times25.net> <200501121856.15116.rb211@tds.net>
Message-ID: <41E5C3DE.7040703@3times25.net>

William Bagwell wrote:
> On Wednesday 12 January 2005 06:44 pm, Geoffrey wrote:
> 
> 
>>I think not.  Maybe the live eval for that price.  I see Suse 9.2 pro
>>for $85 at cheapbytes.  Gotta link for the $9 one?
> 
> 
> Not implying he could get the pro version for that price. Basically your 
> paying them to burn your download edition... This is great for us dial up 
> users. Plus with Mandrake I can get it from them *before* non club members 
> can even start downloading:)
> 
> Psst, the $9 SUSE is just below the $85 one on the main page.

Right, live evaluation, as I noted.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From ringo at margaritasrus.com  Wed Jan 12 20:47:44 2005
From: ringo at margaritasrus.com (ringo)
Date: Wed Jan 12 20:47:44 2005
Subject: [ale] Newbie and Dual install
In-Reply-To: <41E5C3DE.7040703@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <000601c4f911$51ce6ea0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>

I put eh CD in my main pc which has plenty of room and it wanted to
install there, but still no GCC. Can you please burn me a copy of your
pro version and mail it to me as soon as you have time. I'll probably
just end up buying a new Laptop so I'll have room to install it.
Thanks
Ringo Davis
402 Trotters Ridge
Lawrenceville Ga. 30043



-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
Geoffrey
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 7:42 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] Newbie and Dual install

William Bagwell wrote:
> On Wednesday 12 January 2005 06:44 pm, Geoffrey wrote:
> 
> 
>>I think not.  Maybe the live eval for that price.  I see Suse 9.2 pro
>>for $85 at cheapbytes.  Gotta link for the $9 one?
> 
> 
> Not implying he could get the pro version for that price. Basically
your 
> paying them to burn your download edition... This is great for us dial
up 
> users. Plus with Mandrake I can get it from them *before* non club
members 
> can even start downloading:)
> 
> Psst, the $9 SUSE is just below the $85 one on the main page.

Right, live evaluation, as I noted.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale




From ringo at margaritasrus.com  Wed Jan 12 20:56:24 2005
From: ringo at margaritasrus.com (ringo)
Date: Wed Jan 12 20:56:24 2005
Subject: [ale] Newbie and Dual install
In-Reply-To: <200501121903.58732.rb211@tds.net>
Message-ID: <000801c4f912$859be310$bb00a8c0@Ringo>

Apparently the SUSE Personal edition doesn't have the GCC compiler in
it, what's the next best downloadable version that would have it?
Ringo

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
William Bagwell
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 7:04 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] Newbie and Dual install

On Wednesday 12 January 2005 06:56 pm, William Bagwell wrote:
> Psst, the $9 SUSE is just below the $85 one on the main page.

Oops, that's the *live* version. 
-- 
William
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale




From esoteric at 3times25.net  Wed Jan 12 20:57:06 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Wed Jan 12 20:57:06 2005
Subject: [ale] Newbie and Dual install
In-Reply-To: <000601c4f911$51ce6ea0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
References: <000601c4f911$51ce6ea0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
Message-ID: <41E5D456.7060502@3times25.net>

ringo wrote:
> I put eh CD in my main pc which has plenty of room and it wanted to
> install there, but still no GCC. Can you please burn me a copy of your
> pro version and mail it to me as soon as you have time. I'll probably
> just end up buying a new Laptop so I'll have room to install it.

Do you have a dvd burner?  There are 5 cds. :)

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Wed Jan 12 20:57:36 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Wed Jan 12 20:57:36 2005
Subject: [ale] Newbie and Dual install
In-Reply-To: <000801c4f912$859be310$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
References: <000801c4f912$859be310$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
Message-ID: <41E5D48C.2000307@3times25.net>

ringo wrote:
> Apparently the SUSE Personal edition doesn't have the GCC compiler in
> it, what's the next best downloadable version that would have it?

I'd go with Mandrake, then Red Hat Fedora.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Wed Jan 12 20:58:36 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Wed Jan 12 20:58:36 2005
Subject: [ale] Newbie and Dual install
In-Reply-To: <41E5D456.7060502@3times25.net>
References: <000601c4f911$51ce6ea0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
	<41E5D456.7060502@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <41E5D4DB.6070600@3times25.net>

Geoffrey wrote:
> ringo wrote:
> 
>> I put eh CD in my main pc which has plenty of room and it wanted to
>> install there, but still no GCC. Can you please burn me a copy of your
>> pro version and mail it to me as soon as you have time. I'll probably
>> just end up buying a new Laptop so I'll have room to install it.
> 
> 
> Do you have a dvd burner?  There are 5 cds. :)

Oops, I meant a dvd reader!

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From haswes at mindspring.com  Wed Jan 12 21:57:19 2005
From: haswes at mindspring.com (Adrin Story)
Date: Wed Jan 12 21:57:19 2005
Subject: [ale] sound disappeared (debian)
In-Reply-To: <200501071500.14949.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <200501071500.14949.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <41E5E2A2.7070202@mindspring.com>

Redhat would do this to me on my work machine.  It would only happen 
when I fired up VNC remotely and then connected to the VNC display.  To 
fix the sound I would reboot.  I rarely access this machine via standard 
keyboard mouse theses days.  I just need to get the ssh port forwarding 
through the tunnel to start working now.

Also, in Slackware once you setup the alsaconf.  You need to do a 
alsactl store to save the settings.

Jay Loden wrote:

>I have had repeated problems on my debian laptop.  I had no sound (wrong 
>permissions, which I corrected).  I got it working for about a month, only 
>for it to randomly disappear yesterday upon rebooting. 
>
>When trying to configure the sound in Control Panel (KDE) I get the following 
>error: 
>
>Sound server informational message:
>Error while initializing the sound driver:
>device /dev/dsp can't be opened (No such device)
>The sound server will continue, using the null output device 
>
>I checked and /dev/dsp does exist, it's a symlink to /dev/dsp0
>
>I'm sorta stuck on this one, because I'm not sure what's wrong.   I ran 
>alsaconf again to try and get it to re-recognize the sound card, and it did, 
>and it said it was ready to play sound,etc.  But then I tried to open 
>alsamixer, and I get: 
>
>alsamixer: function snd_ctl_open failed for default: No such device
>
>Anyone have some suggestions I can try? 
>
>-Jay
>_______________________________________________
>Ale mailing list
>Ale at ale.org
>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>  
>


From haswes at mindspring.com  Wed Jan 12 22:07:33 2005
From: haswes at mindspring.com (Adrin Story)
Date: Wed Jan 12 22:07:33 2005
Subject: [ale] terminal sharing between users
In-Reply-To: <20050106143801.088kngp0fcao00sk@devsea.com>
References: <20050106122212.uansbhxv2qm8w8kw@devsea.com>	<20050106164048.GG24492@sumners.ath.cx>
	<20050106143801.088kngp0fcao00sk@devsea.com>
Message-ID: <41E5E50A.6010501@mindspring.com>

This is probably worthless.  But I seem to remember once that you can 
have inttab starting the gui login process. I guess starting the 
x-server by default.  The then have the VNC added to the inetd or xinetd 
your choice.   When the user connects they are prompted with a GUI login 
screen.  Of course after the VNC login.    Have you checked out version 
4 from www.realvnc.com?



John Wells wrote:

> james at sumners.ath.cx said:
>
>> You can do that with screen.
>
>
> I believe you can do this only as the same user id.  I'm hoping to find
> something that will allow you to share between two user ids...
>
> Thanks,
> Johh
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale



From haswes at mindspring.com  Wed Jan 12 22:12:40 2005
From: haswes at mindspring.com (Adrin Story)
Date: Wed Jan 12 22:12:40 2005
Subject: [ale] Time issue
In-Reply-To: <009801c4f8d3$724d8f50$6401a8c0@win2kpro1>
References: <009801c4f8d3$724d8f50$6401a8c0@win2kpro1>
Message-ID: <41E5E63E.3080900@mindspring.com>

Perhaps NASA has the answer already

NASA Science News for January 10, 2005 11:00:00 AM

The Dec. 26th Indonesian megathrust earthquake quickened Earth's rotation
and changed our planet's shape, according to calculations done by NASA
scientists.

FULL STORY at

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005/10jan_earthquake.htm?list64770

I had a machine at work that would pick up 8 seconds a day. (24 hours.)  You know this could be almost anything including soon to die hardware problem.



Ryan Fish wrote:

> What could cause the time on a server running RHEL3 ES to change by 
> roughly 3 hours at least two days in a row?
>  
> - Time zone is set to America/New York (EST)
> - NTP is not in use
> - Box has not been rebooted for 77+ days (so HWClock should have 
> nothing to do with it)
>  
> Any ideas on where to look will be GREATLY appreciated.
>  
> Thank you.
> -Ryan
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>Ale mailing list
>Ale at ale.org
>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
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From FishR at bellsouth.net  Wed Jan 12 22:57:59 2005
From: FishR at bellsouth.net (Ryan Fish)
Date: Wed Jan 12 22:57:59 2005
Subject: [ale] Time issue
References: <009801c4f8d3$724d8f50$6401a8c0@win2kpro1>
	<41E5E63E.3080900@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <015e01c4f924$04d47d70$6401a8c0@win2kpro1>

I really do not want to rebuild a mail server from scratch.  It is a HP Netserver LPr though...

I setup ntpd but the time is already off by almost two hours!

/var/log/messages now shows me the following:

Jan 12 16:16:10 <server> ntpd[4584]: synchronisation lost
Jan 12 17:12:50 <server> ntpd[4584]: can't open /etc/ntp/drift.TEMP: Permission denied
Jan 12 18:12:51 <server> ntpd[4584]: can't open /etc/ntp/drift.TEMP: Permission denied
Jan 12 19:12:51 <server> ntpd[4584]: can't open /etc/ntp/drift.TEMP: Permission denied
Jan 12 20:12:51 <server> ntpd[4584]: can't open /etc/ntp/drift.TEMP: Permission denied
Jan 12 21:12:51 <server> ntpd[4584]: can't open /etc/ntp/drift.TEMP: Permission denied
Jan 12 22:12:51 <server> ntpd[4584]: can't open /etc/ntp/drift.TEMP: Permission denied
Jan 12 23:12:51 <server> ntpd[4584]: can't open /etc/ntp/drift.TEMP: Permission denied
Jan 13 00:12:51 <server> ntpd[4584]: can't open /etc/ntp/drift.TEMP: Permission denied

I stopped ntpd and reset the system time using 'ntpdate'.  I then restarted ntpd.

/var/log/messages now has this:

Jan 12 22:35:08 <server> ntpdate[939]: step time server 198.72.72.10 offset -1.306097 sec
Jan 12 22:35:08 <server> ntpd:  succeeded
Jan 12 22:35:08 <server> ntpd[943]: ntpd 4.1.2 at 1.892 Tue Feb 24 06:32:25 EST 2004 (1)
Jan 12 22:35:08 <server> ntpd[943]: precision = 11 usec
Jan 12 22:35:08 <server> ntpd[943]: kernel time discipline status 0040
Jan 12 22:35:08 <server> ntpd: ntpd startup succeeded
Jan 12 22:38:24 <server> ntpd[943]: time set 0.000000 s
Jan 12 22:38:24 <server> ntpd[943]: synchronisation lost

I stopped ntpd again and have corrected the permissions on /etc/ntp and /etc/ntp/drift.  ntpd is now running again so I will see if this keeps it going.

/var/log/messages now has this:

Jan 12 22:49:11 <server> ntpd[1278]: ntpd 4.1.2 at 1.892 Tue Feb 24 06:32:25 EST 2004 (1)
Jan 12 22:49:11 <server> ntpd: ntpd startup succeeded
Jan 12 22:49:11 <server> ntpd[1278]: precision = 6 usec
Jan 12 22:49:11 <server> ntpd[1278]: kernel time discipline status 0040
Jan 12 22:49:11 <server> ntpd[1278]: frequency initialized 0.000 from /etc/ntp/drift

Hopefully the time will remain closer to correct now...

Again, any thoughts on this are welcome.

Thank you.
-Ryan

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Adrin Story 
  To: Ryan Fish ; Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 10:08 PM
  Subject: Re: [ale] Time issue


  Perhaps NASA has the answer already


NASA Science News for January 10, 2005 11:00:00 AM

The Dec. 26th Indonesian megathrust earthquake quickened Earth's rotation
and changed our planet's shape, according to calculations done by NASA
scientists.

FULL STORY at

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005/10jan_earthquake.htm?list64770

I had a machine at work that would pick up 8 seconds a day. (24 hours.)  You know this could be almost anything including soon to die hardware problem.


  Ryan Fish wrote:

    What could cause the time on a server running RHEL3 ES to change by roughly 3 hours at least two days in a row?

    - Time zone is set to America/New York (EST)
    - NTP is not in use
    - Box has not been rebooted for 77+ days (so HWClock should have nothing to do with it)

    Any ideas on where to look will be GREATLY appreciated.

    Thank you.
    -Ryan
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
-------------- next part --------------
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From rgreen at salug.org  Wed Jan 12 23:29:48 2005
From: rgreen at salug.org (Rick Green)
Date: Wed Jan 12 23:29:48 2005
Subject: [ale] Alabama LUGFest 2005 Update
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0501122224150.12507-100000@spaceghost>

Hello ALE list members,

The alabamalugfest.org web site is now fully working.  The PayPal links
are ready to take your reservations.  Get them while they last!  Check out
the site changes and let me know if you have any suggestions or questions.

Rick Green
Public Relations Officer
SALUG, Mobile


From jloden at toughguy.net  Thu Jan 13 03:04:30 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Thu Jan 13 03:04:30 2005
Subject: [ale] mutiple e-mail address management -  kmail
Message-ID: <200501130157.38351.jloden@toughguy.net>

Ok, I use kmail, and I have the following problem.  I use multiple e-mail 
addresses (This one, my school one, and a python-specific email address, 
etc).  That's fine in the sense that kmail can read all of them as separate 
accounts. 

However, when I post to a list, for example, I run into a problem.  for ALE I 
am subscribed as 'jloden at toughguy.net' but for the python list, I am 
subscribed as 'python at jayloden.com'

When I compose/reply to an e-mail, it sends it from "jloden at toughguy.net" 
or whatever my current Profile is set to as the email address.

Does anyone know how I can get around this without having to retype my from 
address every time I message to a different mailing list?  I was even 
thinking of making a menu for kmail that would let me start kmail with 
different profiles, but that's an ugly solution, and I can't seem to find 
anything that lets kmail do that. 

If you all have no other suggestions, I'll take recommendations for mail 
clients that handle multiple addresses and mailing lists well.  

While I'm at it, is there a way to set up kmail with threading for mailing 
lists ?
-Jay


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 13 05:45:20 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Thu Jan 13 05:45:20 2005
Subject: [ale] mutiple e-mail address management -  kmail
In-Reply-To: <200501130157.38351.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <200501130157.38351.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <1105612661.4327.7.camel@blue>

Get Evolution.  It uses the email address that you have associated with
the account when you reply to email received from that account.  For
example, I have an account that picks-up pop3s email from yahoo.  This
includes ALE email.  If I reply to an ALE post (like this one),
Evolution uses "From: jimpop at yahoo.com", the email address associated
with the pop3s account.  The only downside is if you Forward an email
Evolution will use your "default" account.

-Jim P.

On Thu, 2005-01-13 at 01:57 -0500, Jay Loden wrote:
> Ok, I use kmail, and I have the following problem.  I use multiple e-mail 
> addresses (This one, my school one, and a python-specific email address, 
> etc).  That's fine in the sense that kmail can read all of them as separate 
> accounts. 
> 
> However, when I post to a list, for example, I run into a problem.  for ALE I 
> am subscribed as 'jloden at toughguy.net' but for the python list, I am 
> subscribed as 'python at jayloden.com'
> 
> When I compose/reply to an e-mail, it sends it from "jloden at toughguy.net" 
> or whatever my current Profile is set to as the email address.
> 
> Does anyone know how I can get around this without having to retype my from 
> address every time I message to a different mailing list?  I was even 
> thinking of making a menu for kmail that would let me start kmail with 
> different profiles, but that's an ugly solution, and I can't seem to find 
> anything that lets kmail do that. 
> 
> If you all have no other suggestions, I'll take recommendations for mail 
> clients that handle multiple addresses and mailing lists well.  
> 
> While I'm at it, is there a way to set up kmail with threading for mailing 
> lists ?
> -Jay
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From dcorbin at machturtle.com  Thu Jan 13 06:01:14 2005
From: dcorbin at machturtle.com (David Corbin)
Date: Thu Jan 13 06:01:14 2005
Subject: [ale] mutiple e-mail address management -  kmail
In-Reply-To: <200501130157.38351.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <200501130157.38351.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <200501130557.35637.dcorbin@machturtle.com>

I'm not sure what you mean by "Profile"in this sense, but KMail supports 
multiple identities.   Each mail you send will have a combo box at the top to 
select one.  Furthermore, you can associate an identity with a folder, so if 
all of your ALE mail goes into one folder, you set your "ale address" on that 
folder.   Not 100% sure of the details of what "associations" are made, but 
by doing this, I seldom run into bounce mails from tight mailing lists.

David

On Thursday 13 January 2005 01:57, Jay Loden wrote:
> Ok, I use kmail, and I have the following problem.  I use multiple e-mail
> addresses (This one, my school one, and a python-specific email address,
> etc).  That's fine in the sense that kmail can read all of them as separate
> accounts.
>
> However, when I post to a list, for example, I run into a problem.  for ALE
> I am subscribed as 'jloden at toughguy.net' but for the python list, I am
> subscribed as 'python at jayloden.com'
>
> When I compose/reply to an e-mail, it sends it from "jloden at
> toughguy.net" or whatever my current Profile is set to as the email
> address.
>
> Does anyone know how I can get around this without having to retype my from
> address every time I message to a different mailing list?  I was even
> thinking of making a menu for kmail that would let me start kmail with
> different profiles, but that's an ugly solution, and I can't seem to find
> anything that lets kmail do that.
>
> If you all have no other suggestions, I'll take recommendations for mail
> clients that handle multiple addresses and mailing lists well.
>
> While I'm at it, is there a way to set up kmail with threading for mailing
> lists ?
> -Jay
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From jimmyc at speedfactory.net  Thu Jan 13 06:07:58 2005
From: jimmyc at speedfactory.net (Jim Philips)
Date: Thu Jan 13 06:07:58 2005
Subject: [ale] mutiple e-mail address management -  kmail
In-Reply-To: <200501130157.38351.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <200501130157.38351.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <200501130603.45692.jimmyc@speedfactory.net>

On Thursday 13 January 2005 01:57 am, Jay Loden wrote:
> Ok, I use kmail, and I have the following problem.  I use multiple e-mail
> addresses (This one, my school one, and a python-specific email address,
> etc).  That's fine in the sense that kmail can read all of them as separate
> accounts.
>
> However, when I post to a list, for example, I run into a problem.  for ALE
> I am subscribed as 'jloden at toughguy.net' but for the python list, I am
> subscribed as 'python at jayloden.com'
>
> When I compose/reply to an e-mail, it sends it from "jloden at
> toughguy.net" or whatever my current Profile is set to as the email
> address.
>
> Does anyone know how I can get around this without having to retype my from
> address every time I message to a different mailing list?  I was even
> thinking of making a menu for kmail that would let me start kmail with
> different profiles, but that's an ugly solution, and I can't seem to find
> anything that lets kmail do that.

Just go to the configs for Kmail and see the Identities section. From there, 
add a new identity based on your second e-mail address. Then when you go to 
send an e-mail, you'll be able to select the identity that e-mail is "from". 
I used to do this to keep personal and work e-mails separate.

> If you all have no other suggestions, I'll take recommendations for mail
> clients that handle multiple addresses and mailing lists well.
>
> While I'm at it, is there a way to set up kmail with threading for mailing
> lists ?

In my version of Kmail, you just go to the Folders pulldown menu and select 
Thread Messages. I'm on KDE 3.4. I don't know when this feature was 
introduced, but I think it's not new.


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Thu Jan 13 07:34:34 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Thu Jan 13 07:34:34 2005
Subject: [ale] mutiple e-mail address management -  kmail
In-Reply-To: <200501130157.38351.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <200501130157.38351.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <41E669CB.5090903@3times25.net>

Jay Loden wrote:
> Ok, I use kmail, and I have the following problem.  I use multiple
> e-mail addresses (This one, my school one, and a python-specific
> email address, etc).  That's fine in the sense that kmail can read
> all of them as separate accounts.
> 
> However, when I post to a list, for example, I run into a problem.
> for ALE I am subscribed as 'jloden at toughguy.net' but for the
> python list, I am subscribed as 'python at jayloden.com'
> 
> When I compose/reply to an e-mail, it sends it from "jloden at
> toughguy.net" or whatever my current Profile is set to as the email
> address.
> 
> Does anyone know how I can get around this without having to retype
> my from address every time I message to a different mailing list?  I
> was even thinking of making a menu for kmail that would let me start
> kmail with different profiles, but that's an ugly solution, and I
> can't seem to find anything that lets kmail do that.
>
> If you all have no other suggestions, I'll take recommendations for
> mail clients that handle multiple addresses and mailing lists well.

I don't use kmail, but with mozilla the From: is a drop down which you 
can choose the addr you use.  I'd simply suggest that you unsub and 
resub the lists under the same id. :)

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Thu Jan 13 08:17:27 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Thu Jan 13 08:17:27 2005
Subject: [ale] Alabama LUGFest 2005 Update
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0501122224150.12507-100000@spaceghost>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0501122224150.12507-100000@spaceghost>
Message-ID: <41E673DE.2080400@3times25.net>

Rick Green wrote:
> Hello ALE list members,
> 
> The alabamalugfest.org web site is now fully working.  The PayPal links
> are ready to take your reservations.  Get them while they last!  Check out
> the site changes and let me know if you have any suggestions or questions.

Links?  Links?  I don't see no stinkin' Links?

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From preston.boyington at mindspring.com  Thu Jan 13 09:09:59 2005
From: preston.boyington at mindspring.com (Preston Boyington)
Date: Thu Jan 13 09:09:59 2005
Subject: [ale] Newbie and Dual install
In-Reply-To: <000801c4f912$859be310$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
References: <000801c4f912$859be310$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
Message-ID: <41E68011.9040309@mindspring.com>

ringo wrote:
> Apparently the SUSE Personal edition doesn't have the GCC compiler in
> it, what's the next best downloadable version that would have it?
> Ringo

aren't you able to do an internet update and install software through
YAST2?  you should be able to pick what you want under the "add
software" (or SuSE equivalent) and have it download/install on your
machine.  even on a dialup connection it is bearable.

do you have a network card in your laptop?  maybe you could get
permission to download the software from your schools computer lab.  if
you have a supported wireless card then you could go to some place that
offers free wifi for their customers.  we have several coffee shops,
restaurants, and even hotels that offer free internet access.

i can update my debian install over two grandes. ;-)

Preston



From preston.boyington at mindspring.com  Thu Jan 13 09:21:56 2005
From: preston.boyington at mindspring.com (Preston Boyington)
Date: Thu Jan 13 09:21:56 2005
Subject: [ale] Alabama LUGFest 2005 Update
In-Reply-To: <41E673DE.2080400@3times25.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0501122224150.12507-100000@spaceghost>
	<41E673DE.2080400@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <41E682E2.9030308@mindspring.com>

Geoffrey wrote:
> Rick Green wrote:
> 
>> Hello ALE list members,
>>
>> The alabamalugfest.org web site is now fully working.
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
<snipped>
> 
> Links?  Links?  I don't see no stinkin' Links?
> 

http://alabamalugfest.org/

anyone else thinking of going?  i'm located in Dothan, AL and possibly 
have only 1 other rider at this point.

Preston


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Thu Jan 13 10:07:41 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Thu Jan 13 10:07:41 2005
Subject: [ale] Newbie and Dual install
In-Reply-To: <41E68011.9040309@mindspring.com>
References: <000801c4f912$859be310$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
	<41E68011.9040309@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <41E68DD5.30108@3times25.net>

Preston Boyington wrote:
> ringo wrote:
> 
>> Apparently the SUSE Personal edition doesn't have the GCC compiler in
>> it, what's the next best downloadable version that would have it?
>> Ringo
> 
> 
> aren't you able to do an internet update and install software through
> YAST2?  you should be able to pick what you want under the "add
> software" (or SuSE equivalent) and have it download/install on your
> machine.  even on a dialup connection it is bearable.

Yast will only permit you to update Suse personal with Suse personal 
software.  That being said, I think that Ringo's cd is not complete as 
it did not present enough software to install.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 13 10:13:59 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Thu Jan 13 10:13:59 2005
Subject: [ale] Newbie and Dual install
In-Reply-To: <41E68DD5.30108@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <20050113150938.73907.qmail@web54401.mail.yahoo.com>

I picked up Linux Format at Borders last night, and
the 9.2 version on the DVD had GCC installed by
default.

--J


--- Geoffrey <esoteric at 3times25.net> wrote:

> Preston Boyington wrote:
> > ringo wrote:
> > 
> >> Apparently the SUSE Personal edition doesn't have
> the GCC compiler in
> >> it, what's the next best downloadable version
> that would have it?
> >> Ringo
> > 
> > 
> > aren't you able to do an internet update and
> install software through
> > YAST2?  you should be able to pick what you want
> under the "add
> > software" (or SuSE equivalent) and have it
> download/install on your
> > machine.  even on a dialup connection it is
> bearable.
> 
> Yast will only permit you to update Suse personal
> with Suse personal 
> software.  That being said, I think that Ringo's cd
> is not complete as 
> it did not present enough software to install.
> 
> -- 
> Until later, Geoffrey
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 


From mhirsch at nubridges.com  Thu Jan 13 10:16:07 2005
From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael Hirsch)
Date: Thu Jan 13 10:16:07 2005
Subject: [ale] terminal sharing between users
Message-ID: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF043D7113@germanium.numethods.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
Adrin
> Story
> Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 10:04 PM
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [ale] terminal sharing between users
> 
> This is probably worthless.  But I seem to remember once that you can
> have inttab starting the gui login process. I guess starting the
> x-server by default.  The then have the VNC added to the inetd or
xinetd
> your choice.   When the user connects they are prompted with a GUI
login
> screen.  Of course after the VNC login.    Have you checked out
version
> 4 from www.realvnc.com?
>
I've been using Version 4 intensively now for a couple of months.  I
round that the version shipping with Fedora has many patches that the
one from RealVNC did not include.  With the one from RealVNC I could
easily make it crash, but the one from Fedora never crashes.

Apparently Eclipse tends to tickle a bug in the Xserver code in all
versions of VNC which RedHat has patched in the Fedora releases.

Michael

> 
> 
> John Wells wrote:
> 
> > james at sumners.ath.cx said:
> >
> >> You can do that with screen.
> >
> >
> > I believe you can do this only as the same user id.  I'm hoping to
find
> > something that will allow you to share between two user ids...
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Johh
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale



From volcimaster at gmail.com  Thu Jan 13 10:41:48 2005
From: volcimaster at gmail.com (Warren Myers)
Date: Thu Jan 13 10:41:48 2005
Subject: [ale] mutiple e-mail address management - kmail
In-Reply-To: <41E669CB.5090903@3times25.net>
References: <200501130157.38351.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<41E669CB.5090903@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <cd08a04c0501130737333031bc@mail.gmail.com>

I would suggest moving to Thunderbird 1.0. It allows you to pick your
>From address in a drop-down, and will suck all your incoming mail into
one inbox, if you want, or it can use seperate inboxes for the
different accounts.

It's what I use at home, and find it to work really nicely.

WMM


On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 07:30:03 -0500, Geoffrey <esoteric at 3times25.net> wrote:
> Jay Loden wrote:
> > Ok, I use kmail, and I have the following problem.  I use multiple
> > e-mail addresses (This one, my school one, and a python-specific
> > email address, etc).  That's fine in the sense that kmail can read
> > all of them as separate accounts.
> >
> > However, when I post to a list, for example, I run into a problem.
> > for ALE I am subscribed as 'jloden at toughguy.net' but for the
> > python list, I am subscribed as 'python at jayloden.com'
> >
> > When I compose/reply to an e-mail, it sends it from "jloden at
> > toughguy.net" or whatever my current Profile is set to as the email
> > address.
> >
> > Does anyone know how I can get around this without having to retype
> > my from address every time I message to a different mailing list?  I
> > was even thinking of making a menu for kmail that would let me start
> > kmail with different profiles, but that's an ugly solution, and I
> > can't seem to find anything that lets kmail do that.
> >
> > If you all have no other suggestions, I'll take recommendations for
> > mail clients that handle multiple addresses and mailing lists well.
> 
> I don't use kmail, but with mozilla the From: is a drop down which you
> can choose the addr you use.  I'd simply suggest that you unsub and
> resub the lists under the same id. :)
> 
> --
> Until later, Geoffrey
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 


-- 

"Don't let the elephants see what the rabbits are doing." --Ben R Rich


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Thu Jan 13 10:52:44 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Thu Jan 13 10:52:44 2005
Subject: [ale] Newbie and Dual install
In-Reply-To: <20050113150938.73907.qmail@web54401.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20050113150938.73907.qmail@web54401.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <41E6985D.6080603@3times25.net>

Jerald Sheets wrote:
> I picked up Linux Format at Borders last night, and
> the 9.2 version on the DVD had GCC installed by
> default.

 From what I've seen, there is no 9.2 personal.  I guess Novel dumped 
it.  At least I can't find any version of it on the Novel/Suse website.

That being said, I would expect the 9.2 version that came with LF 
contains gcc.  Further it's the live eval, so I don't believe you can do 
an install from it.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From ale1 at cybertechcafe.net  Thu Jan 13 11:13:45 2005
From: ale1 at cybertechcafe.net (Nathan J. Underwood)
Date: Thu Jan 13 11:13:45 2005
Subject: [ale] Online Backup
In-Reply-To: <87f94c3705011215074484d8db@mail.gmail.com>
References: <acb6c44105011208203ee508ec@mail.gmail.com>
	<87f94c3705011215074484d8db@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41E69BA7.6030208@cybertechcafe.net>

I've never tried it to get an online image, but I do use it (in 
production) to 'ghost' workstations, and it works great.  I'm using the 
bzip2 option for winxp pro, win2k pro machines with much success.
--
registered linux user # 73046

Nathan J. Underwood
Cyber Tech Cafe' <><
http://www.cybertechcafe.net

Greg Freemyer wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 11:20:11 -0500, Nick Travis <wormfishin at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>Is there a way to create a full system backup, simular to a ghost
>>image, of a linux server remotely without taking the server offline?
>>Could you do something like "tar -cf my-system.tar * "?  Or would this
>>fail due to files changing as the tar was being created.  Could rsync
>>be used, I was thinking it would have to same problem of files
>>changing though while it was syncing.  It's a pretty basic system, no
>>databases or anything, just dhcp named and a firewall.
>>
>>Nick
> 
>  
> I have not used it, but partimage is supposed to be similar to ghost.
> 
> I'm not sure what filesystems it supports, nor if it works online.
> 
> Greg
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 13 11:19:39 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Thu Jan 13 11:19:39 2005
Subject: [ale] Newbie and Dual install
In-Reply-To: <41E6985D.6080603@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <20050113161532.11030.qmail@web54407.mail.yahoo.com>

There's instructions inside on how to make install
CD's from the DVD.  Do you suppose that the
installaiton iso's are different than the live eval?

(I was planning on puttin gon an empty partition...)



--- Geoffrey <esoteric at 3times25.net> wrote:

> Jerald Sheets wrote:
> > I picked up Linux Format at Borders last night,
> and
> > the 9.2 version on the DVD had GCC installed by
> > default.
> 
>  From what I've seen, there is no 9.2 personal.  I
> guess Novel dumped 
> it.  At least I can't find any version of it on the
> Novel/Suse website.
> 
> That being said, I would expect the 9.2 version that
> came with LF 
> contains gcc.  Further it's the live eval, so I
> don't believe you can do 
> an install from it.
> 
> -- 
> Until later, Geoffrey
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 


From jpheale at LearnLink.Emory.Edu  Thu Jan 13 11:27:36 2005
From: jpheale at LearnLink.Emory.Edu (John P. Healey)
Date: Thu Jan 13 11:27:36 2005
Subject: [ale] Online Backup
In-Reply-To: <41E69BA7.6030208@cybertechcafe.net>
References: <acb6c44105011208203ee508ec@mail.gmail.com> <	>
	<87f94c3705011215074484d8db@mail.gmail.com>
	<41E69BA7.6030208@cybertechcafe.net>
Message-ID: <fc.00249f0f233bfdb73b9aca0080a6de56.233c028f@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>

I know that dirvish can be used to create backups over a network connection. 
it uses rsync for the transfers.

http://www.dirvish.org/

5265762e204a6f686e6e79204865616c6579


From gchendry at bellsouth.net  Thu Jan 13 11:43:51 2005
From: gchendry at bellsouth.net (gchendry at bellsouth.net)
Date: Thu Jan 13 11:43:51 2005
Subject: [ale] Re: Online Backup
Message-ID: <20050113163839.QYYA2064.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net>

I have been using partimage, works well.
Note: 
Partimage images 1 partition at a time, not an entire hard drive.
Will work with NTFS as long as the partition is not very fragmented.
Will not image a mounted partition.

Depending on how you partitioned your hard drive and what applications are running where will depend if you can keep your system up and running while using partimage.

Good Uses:
When installing the same os (LINUX or MS :( ) on multiple similar machines, I install it once, use partimage to create an image and then restore that image to the other machines.  Note must copy the boot sector via dd if=/dev/??? of=outfile count=512


Greg Freemyer wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 11:20:11 -0500, Nick Travis <wormfishin at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>Is there a way to create a full system backup, simular to a ghost
>>image, of a linux server remotely without taking the server offline?
>>Could you do something like "tar -cf my-system.tar * "?  Or would this
>>fail due to files changing as the tar was being created.  Could rsync
>>be used, I was thinking it would have to same problem of files
>>changing though while it was syncing.  It's a pretty basic system, no
>>databases or anything, just dhcp named and a firewall.
>>
>>Nick
> 
>  
> I have not used it, but partimage is supposed to be similar to ghost.
> 
> I'm not sure what filesystems it supports, nor if it works online.
> 
> Greg
------------------------------



From runman at speedfactory.net  Thu Jan 13 12:37:23 2005
From: runman at speedfactory.net (Greg)
Date: Thu Jan 13 12:37:23 2005
Subject: [ale] Newbie and Dual install
In-Reply-To: <20050113150938.73907.qmail@web54401.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <000201c4f98e$257edd80$0a00a8c0@atlas>

I googled for "Suse Personal 9.2 GCC" and found several links of folks
telling how they installed the gcc compiler for a Suse Personal 9.2 version.
There is also Libranet and Ubuntu Linux (both Debian based) that are about
the simplest things in the world to install.  I really don't understand the
problem here - I would expect any Ga Tech (or any other school) student who
spent an hour or so with Google to figure this out - not to mention the
resources at Tech who could help (computer science dept and students).  This
isn't rocket science (qmail on FreeBSD might be .... ).

Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org]On Behalf Of
Jerald Sheets
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 10:10 AM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] Newbie and Dual install


I picked up Linux Format at Borders last night, and
the 9.2 version on the DVD had GCC installed by
default.

--J


--- Geoffrey <esoteric at 3times25.net> wrote:

> Preston Boyington wrote:
> > ringo wrote:
> >
> >> Apparently the SUSE Personal edition doesn't have
> the GCC compiler in
> >> it, what's the next best downloadable version
> that would have it?
> >> Ringo
> >
> >
> > aren't you able to do an internet update and
> install software through
> > YAST2?  you should be able to pick what you want
> under the "add
> > software" (or SuSE equivalent) and have it
> download/install on your
> > machine.  even on a dialup connection it is
> bearable.
>
> Yast will only permit you to update Suse personal
> with Suse personal
> software.  That being said, I think that Ringo's cd
> is not complete as
> it did not present enough software to install.
>
> --
> Until later, Geoffrey
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>

_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From jloden at toughguy.net  Thu Jan 13 13:15:08 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Thu Jan 13 13:15:08 2005
Subject: [ale] mutiple e-mail address management -  kmail
In-Reply-To: <200501130603.45692.jimmyc@speedfactory.net>
References: <200501130157.38351.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<200501130603.45692.jimmyc@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <200501131308.26063.jloden@toughguy.net>

Ok, i got it now, thanks for the replies...I just didnt have a separate 
"Identity" so the "Identity" pulldown box never popped up before, so I had no 
idea it was there. 

The threading was on but I had "thread messages by subject" checked and not 
"Thread messages" so it wasn't actually doing it

Everything is working the way I'd like now :)

-Jay


On Thursday 13 January 2005 6:03, Jim Philips wrote:
> On Thursday 13 January 2005 01:57 am, Jay Loden wrote:
> > Ok, I use kmail, and I have the following problem.  I use multiple e-mail
> > addresses (This one, my school one, and a python-specific email address,
> > etc).  That's fine in the sense that kmail can read all of them as
> > separate accounts.
> >
> > However, when I post to a list, for example, I run into a problem.  for
> > ALE I am subscribed as 'jloden at toughguy.net' but for the python list,
> > I am subscribed as 'python at jayloden.com'
> >
> > When I compose/reply to an e-mail, it sends it from "jloden at
> > toughguy.net" or whatever my current Profile is set to as the email
> > address.
> >
> > Does anyone know how I can get around this without having to retype my
> > from address every time I message to a different mailing list?  I was
> > even thinking of making a menu for kmail that would let me start kmail
> > with different profiles, but that's an ugly solution, and I can't seem to
> > find anything that lets kmail do that.
>
> Just go to the configs for Kmail and see the Identities section. From
> there, add a new identity based on your second e-mail address. Then when
> you go to send an e-mail, you'll be able to select the identity that e-mail
> is "from". I used to do this to keep personal and work e-mails separate.
>
> > If you all have no other suggestions, I'll take recommendations for mail
> > clients that handle multiple addresses and mailing lists well.
> >
> > While I'm at it, is there a way to set up kmail with threading for
> > mailing lists ?
>
> In my version of Kmail, you just go to the Folders pulldown menu and select
> Thread Messages. I'm on KDE 3.4. I don't know when this feature was
> introduced, but I think it's not new.
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From barry at alltc.com  Thu Jan 13 13:26:43 2005
From: barry at alltc.com (Barry Hawkins)
Date: Thu Jan 13 13:26:43 2005
Subject: [ale] mutiple e-mail address management - kmail
In-Reply-To: <cd08a04c0501130737333031bc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200501130157.38351.jloden@toughguy.net>	<41E669CB.5090903@3times25.net>
	<cd08a04c0501130737333031bc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41E64BD2.9020905@alltc.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Warren Myers wrote:
| I would suggest moving to Thunderbird 1.0. It allows you to pick your
|>From address in a drop-down, and will suck all your incoming mail into
| one inbox, if you want, or it can use seperate inboxes for the
| different accounts.
|
| It's what I use at home, and find it to work really nicely.
|
| WMM
Agreed.  Thunderbird is my primary email client.  Great with multiple
email accounts, POP or IMAP, SSL support, excellent GPG integration via
the Enigmail extension, good filters support, and adaptive junk mail
filtering.

- --
Barry Hawkins
All Things Computed
site: www.alltc.com
weblog: www.yepthatsme.com

Registered Linux User #368650
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From esoteric at 3times25.net  Thu Jan 13 13:44:57 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Thu Jan 13 13:44:57 2005
Subject: [ale] Newbie and Dual install
In-Reply-To: <20050113161532.11030.qmail@web54407.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20050113161532.11030.qmail@web54407.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <41E6C0BE.1090001@3times25.net>

Jerald Sheets wrote:
> There's instructions inside on how to make install
> CD's from the DVD.  Do you suppose that the
> installaiton iso's are different than the live eval?

I know so, as the LF dvd contains 4 gigs of goodies and Suse is just a 
part of that 4 gigs.  Suse 9.2 pro dvd is a dual layer dvd which 
contains > 7 gigs of goodies.  I don't care how they may have compressed 
it, I'm pretty sure they didn't get 7 gigs of stuff on a 4 gig dvd along 
with all the other stuff.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Thu Jan 13 13:50:37 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Thu Jan 13 13:50:37 2005
Subject: [ale] Newbie and Dual install
In-Reply-To: <000201c4f98e$257edd80$0a00a8c0@atlas>
References: <000201c4f98e$257edd80$0a00a8c0@atlas>
Message-ID: <41E6C206.7070908@3times25.net>

Greg wrote:
> I googled for "Suse Personal 9.2 GCC" and found several links of folks
> telling how they installed the gcc compiler for a Suse Personal 9.2 version.

You sure that's 9.2 personal?  I find no links to 9.2 personal on the 
Suse website.  Even searching cheapbytes I can find pro and eval only. 
I did find a link to a student pro 9.2 which was $30 cheaper than the 
regular 9.2 pro.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From runman at speedfactory.net  Thu Jan 13 14:41:20 2005
From: runman at speedfactory.net (Greg)
Date: Thu Jan 13 14:41:20 2005
Subject: [ale] Newbie and Dual install
In-Reply-To: <41E6C206.7070908@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <000501c4f9a7$6522a340$0a00a8c0@atlas>

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Suse+9.2+Personal+GCC&btnG=Google+Searc
h

and

to install make (one person's method) :

http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/post-152922.html



Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org]On Behalf Of
Geoffrey
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 1:47 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] Newbie and Dual install


Greg wrote:
> I googled for "Suse Personal 9.2 GCC" and found several links of folks
> telling how they installed the gcc compiler for a Suse Personal 9.2
version.

You sure that's 9.2 personal?  I find no links to 9.2 personal on the
Suse website.  Even searching cheapbytes I can find pro and eval only.
I did find a link to a student pro 9.2 which was $30 cheaper than the
regular 9.2 pro.

--
Until later, Geoffrey
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From hbbs at comcast.net  Thu Jan 13 14:43:01 2005
From: hbbs at comcast.net (Jeff Hubbs)
Date: Thu Jan 13 14:43:01 2005
Subject: [ale] ALE Central Meeting, 1/13/2005
In-Reply-To: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF04058AFD@germanium.numethods.com>
References: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF04058AFD@germanium.numethods.com>
Message-ID: <1105645120.4540.103.camel@juanita>

time and room?

On Mon, 2005-01-10 at 14:05, Michael Hirsch wrote:
> It gives me great pleasure to announce that The ALE Central meeting on Thursday will feature a presentation by Jim Kinney about Linux for small businesses.
>  
> Thanks, Jim.
>  
> --Michael
>  
>  
> Topic: Linux for the 2005 SMB Environment
> Speaker: James P. Kinney III
>  
> Abstract:
>  
> Small business has always been the backbone of the US economy. As the digital 
> revolution has continued, the small business owner is faced with a dilemma: Join 
> the computerized fray or get left behind.
>  
> The computing needs of small business has a basic core need: Timely data to make 
> things run. The current state of Linux is well suited to meet the needs of many 
> small to mid-sized businesses. From basic server needs such file and print 
> services, web sites, email and ecommerce, to accounting application, POS and 
> CRM/ERP, Linux has a solution to fit every budget.
>  
> This talk will cover an overview of application that Local Net Solutions installs
> and manages for clients. Included will be a discussion of the advantages and the 
> pitfalls of the current state of applications.
>  
>  
> James Kinney was introduced to Linux in 1993. After completing his Masters in 
> Physics from Georgia State University in 1997 he wiped Windows NT from his hard 
> drive and never looked back. Currently, James is the founder and CEO of Local Net 
> Solutions, LLC. Local Net Solutions is a consulting company specializing in system 
> administration for small to mid-size business. He takes an intense delight in 
> replacing windows machines with Linux machines.
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________________
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From mhirsch at nubridges.com  Thu Jan 13 15:03:11 2005
From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael Hirsch)
Date: Thu Jan 13 15:03:11 2005
Subject: [ale] ALE Central Meeting, 1/13/2005
Message-ID: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF043D71C5@germanium.numethods.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
Jeff
> Hubbs
> Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 2:39 PM
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [ale] ALE Central Meeting, 1/13/2005
> 
> time and room?
>
Usual time and place, AFAIK.  

7:30 at 
Gambrell Hall Classroom 1C
Emory University School of Law

See the ale.org website for directions.

Michael

> On Mon, 2005-01-10 at 14:05, Michael Hirsch wrote:
> > It gives me great pleasure to announce that The ALE Central meeting
on
> Thursday will feature a presentation by Jim Kinney about Linux for
small
> businesses.
> >
> > Thanks, Jim.
> >
> > --Michael
> >
> >
> > Topic: Linux for the 2005 SMB Environment
> > Speaker: James P. Kinney III
> >
> > Abstract:
> >
> > Small business has always been the backbone of the US economy. As
the
> digital
> > revolution has continued, the small business owner is faced with a
> dilemma: Join
> > the computerized fray or get left behind.
> >
> > The computing needs of small business has a basic core need: Timely
data
> to make
> > things run. The current state of Linux is well suited to meet the
needs
> of many
> > small to mid-sized businesses. From basic server needs such file and
> print
> > services, web sites, email and ecommerce, to accounting application,
POS
> and
> > CRM/ERP, Linux has a solution to fit every budget.
> >
> > This talk will cover an overview of application that Local Net
Solutions
> installs
> > and manages for clients. Included will be a discussion of the
advantages
> and the
> > pitfalls of the current state of applications.
> >
> >
> > James Kinney was introduced to Linux in 1993. After completing his
> Masters in
> > Physics from Georgia State University in 1997 he wiped Windows NT
from
> his hard
> > drive and never looked back. Currently, James is the founder and CEO
of
> Local Net
> > Solutions, LLC. Local Net Solutions is a consulting company
specializing
> in system
> > administration for small to mid-size business. He takes an intense
> delight in
> > replacing windows machines with Linux machines.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
______________________________________________________________________
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale



From esoteric at 3times25.net  Thu Jan 13 15:04:06 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Thu Jan 13 15:04:06 2005
Subject: [ale] Newbie and Dual install
In-Reply-To: <000501c4f9a7$6522a340$0a00a8c0@atlas>
References: <000501c4f9a7$6522a340$0a00a8c0@atlas>
Message-ID: <41E6D315.3020702@3times25.net>

Greg wrote:
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Suse+9.2+Personal+GCC&btnG=Google+Search


All the references I saw there were either 9.2 pro or 9.1 personal.

> and
> 
> to install make (one person's method) :
> 
> http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/post-152922.html

This too refers to 9.1 personal.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jwl at sgi.com  Thu Jan 13 15:32:37 2005
From: jwl at sgi.com (Jim Lynch)
Date: Thu Jan 13 15:32:37 2005
Subject: [ale] Time issue
In-Reply-To: <009801c4f8d3$724d8f50$6401a8c0@win2kpro1>
References: <009801c4f8d3$724d8f50$6401a8c0@win2kpro1>
Message-ID: <41E6D9E6.4070807@sgi.com>

How old is the system?  Any chance the cmos battery is shot? 

Jim

Ryan Fish wrote:

> What could cause the time on a server running RHEL3 ES to change by 
> roughly 3 hours at least two days in a row?
>  
> - Time zone is set to America/New York (EST)
> - NTP is not in use
> - Box has not been rebooted for 77+ days (so HWClock should have 
> nothing to do with it)
>  
> Any ideas on where to look will be GREATLY appreciated.
>  
> Thank you.
> -Ryan
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>Ale mailing list
>Ale at ale.org
>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Thu Jan 13 15:39:00 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Thu Jan 13 15:39:00 2005
Subject: [ale] Time issue
In-Reply-To: <41E6D9E6.4070807@sgi.com>
References: <009801c4f8d3$724d8f50$6401a8c0@win2kpro1>
	<41E6D9E6.4070807@sgi.com>
Message-ID: <41E6DB73.8040108@3times25.net>

Jim Lynch wrote:
> How old is the system?  Any chance the cmos battery is shot?

Shouldn't be an issue, as he said it's not been rebooted.  It only 
relies on the battery when it's not powered up.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From runman at speedfactory.net  Thu Jan 13 15:58:05 2005
From: runman at speedfactory.net (Greg)
Date: Thu Jan 13 15:58:05 2005
Subject: [ale] Newbie and Dual install
In-Reply-To: <41E6D315.3020702@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <000601c4f9b2$55f9ddb0$0a00a8c0@atlas>

Errr.  Ok.  20 minutes of Googling revealed a ton of rumours and those
saying there is no/will be no Suse 9.2 Personal version ... some said the
reason was that many folks installed Personal and whined because they
thought they were getting Pro .. some said it was Novell's fault ... blah
blah blah.  Several reviews said there was no real difference between 9.1
and 9.2.

So.  I don't know the deal.  Perhaps an email to Novell/Suse would clear up
the confusion ?  I hope that Novell is not going to do to Suse what RH did -
or start to pull support from Suse's mail/contact/PIM products just to get
rid of a competitor to their own.  However this wouldn't surprise me.
Somehow I don't really see Novell as a linux company nor one that has a
history of Open Source involvement.  I also thought that Suse selling out to
Novell was a stupid error based on greed.  When I think of dunderhead IT
companies that had a great deal and screwed it up I always think of Novell
(and Sun and Netscape). Well - I guess I better hang on to my Suse 9.1 and
earlier distros (I buy Suse for the many multimedia apps on it mainly).

But if they do go the same greedy corporate way as RH then it's just another
reason to support non-corporate projects.

However the OP and OPr (original problem) was installing gcc - was it not ?
I would think that this could be done on any linux distro.

Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org]On Behalf Of
Geoffrey
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 2:59 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] Newbie and Dual install


Greg wrote:
>
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Suse+9.2+Personal+GCC&btnG=Google+Searc
h


All the references I saw there were either 9.2 pro or 9.1 personal.

> and
>
> to install make (one person's method) :
>
> http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/post-152922.html

This too refers to 9.1 personal.

--
Until later, Geoffrey
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From drifter at oppositelock.org  Thu Jan 13 16:02:12 2005
From: drifter at oppositelock.org (Sean Kilpatrick)
Date: Thu Jan 13 16:02:12 2005
Subject: [ale] KDE help needed
Message-ID: <200501131558.16310.drifter@oppositelock.org>

Upgraded from RH9 to FC3. 
Went from KDE 3.0 to KDE 3.3.1

With the older version of Konky it was possible to
toggle whether or not to show the hidden (dot) files
and, if displayed, they appeared at the end of the
directory listing.
Now they appear at the top.
I have looked everywhere I can think of and I can not
find a place to toggle OFF showing hidden files.
Does anyone know where this toggle is hidden?
Failing that is there anyway to get them pushed to the
bottom of the directory listing?

TIA

Sean

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From barry at alltc.com  Thu Jan 13 16:04:00 2005
From: barry at alltc.com (Barry Hawkins)
Date: Thu Jan 13 16:04:00 2005
Subject: [ale] GNOME Journal article: The Liberal Arts Major Test
Message-ID: <41E67025.9090407@alltc.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Not sure how many keep up with GNOME Journal, but this was an
interesting piece that made it to Slashdot:

The Liberal Arts Major Test
http://www.gnomejournal.org/article/13/the-liberal-arts-major-test

This guy apparently installed Debian sid on a scrapper of an x86 PC and
showed his friend the basics and left her to it - 2 years ago.  The
title plays off of those Grandmother Tests that kept popping up when
Linux on the desktop first became a hot topic.

- --
Barry Hawkins
All Things Computed
site: www.alltc.com
weblog: www.yepthatsme.com

Registered Linux User #368650
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Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux)

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From cor.angela at mindspring.com  Thu Jan 13 16:17:22 2005
From: cor.angela at mindspring.com (Cor van Dijk)
Date: Thu Jan 13 16:17:22 2005
Subject: [ale] Need help with Installation
In-Reply-To: <BAY102-DAV9A0DF865C8A9A9FEA3425A0890@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY102-F39F1B88D71779F94662FAAA0880@phx.gbl><41E46FA0.1090101@3times25.net>	<41E59CE7.602@mindspring.com>
	<BAY102-DAV9A0DF865C8A9A9FEA3425A0890@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <41E6E57A.70007@mindspring.com>

Tomek Skurzak wrote:

>>Geoffrey wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Tomek Skurzak wrote:
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>i am new to Linux. I tried to install Yoper and Suse. In both cases I
>>>>had problems with the video card. The bottom line is that I can not
>>>>see anything on the screen after the linux boots up. Even when I try
>>>>to adjust the screen visuals inside the monitor.
>>>>
>>>>Would you know any commands in the shell I could use to change the
>>>>graphics? or any other suggestions?
>>>>
>>>>The box is IBM  PII 300MHz.
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>Do you know what video card it has?  Switch to a virtual console
>>>(ctrl-alt-F3 should work) and then check out /var/log/XFree86.0.log or
>>>/var/log/Xorg.0.log depending on what version you're running.  If you
>>>can't figure out what's going on there, post the contents of the log
>>>file and we'll go from there.
>>>      
>>>
>>I had the exact same card and tried to install Suse8.2 a while back. Did
>>not work. Contacted Suse about this. Was told that they consider this an
>>obsolete card and sorry, no help.
>>Good luck, Cor van Dijk
>>    
>>
>
>Do you know any other version of linux (excluding Suse and Yoper) that would
>run with S3 Trio64V2 video controller?
>_______________________________________________
>Ale mailing list
>Ale at ale.org
>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
>  
>
I am presently running Enterprise Linux on a machine with a different card.
According to the cards listed here, S3 Trio64V2 is supported.
According to /proc/version, the exact name of this distro is "Red Hat 
Linux 3.2.3-20",
kernel 2.4.21-4.EL.
Hope this helps. Cor van Dijk


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Thu Jan 13 16:31:15 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Thu Jan 13 16:31:15 2005
Subject: [ale] Need help with Installation
In-Reply-To: <41E6E57A.70007@mindspring.com>
References: <BAY102-F39F1B88D71779F94662FAAA0880@phx.gbl><41E46FA0.1090101@3times25.net>	<41E59CE7.602@mindspring.com>	<BAY102-DAV9A0DF865C8A9A9FEA3425A0890@phx.gbl>
	<41E6E57A.70007@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <41E6E7B7.80003@3times25.net>

Cor van Dijk wrote:

> I am presently running Enterprise Linux on a machine with a different card.
> According to the cards listed here, S3 Trio64V2 is supported.
> According to /proc/version, the exact name of this distro is "Red Hat 
> Linux 3.2.3-20",
> kernel 2.4.21-4.EL.

Looking at the supported cards in suse 9.2 pro yast shows it's supported 
here as well.


-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jloden at toughguy.net  Thu Jan 13 16:38:10 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Thu Jan 13 16:38:10 2005
Subject: [ale] KDE help needed
In-Reply-To: <200501131558.16310.drifter@oppositelock.org>
References: <200501131558.16310.drifter@oppositelock.org>
Message-ID: <200501131631.51169.jloden@toughguy.net>

What is Konky? 

I could be totally off base, but if you mean konqueror, you go to View ==> 
Show Hidden Files and uncheck it 

-Jay

On Thursday 13 January 2005 3:58, Sean Kilpatrick wrote:
> Upgraded from RH9 to FC3.
> Went from KDE 3.0 to KDE 3.3.1
>
> With the older version of Konky it was possible to
> toggle whether or not to show the hidden (dot) files
> and, if displayed, they appeared at the end of the
> directory listing.
> Now they appear at the top.
> I have looked everywhere I can think of and I can not
> find a place to toggle OFF showing hidden files.
> Does anyone know where this toggle is hidden?
> Failing that is there anyway to get them pushed to the
> bottom of the directory listing?
>
> TIA
>
> Sean


From rb211 at tds.net  Thu Jan 13 17:06:19 2005
From: rb211 at tds.net (William Bagwell)
Date: Thu Jan 13 17:06:19 2005
Subject: [ale] KDE help needed
In-Reply-To: <200501131558.16310.drifter@oppositelock.org>
References: <200501131558.16310.drifter@oppositelock.org>
Message-ID: <200501131700.54337.rb211@tds.net>

On Thursday 13 January 2005 03:58 pm, Sean Kilpatrick wrote:
> Upgraded from RH9 to FC3.
> Went from KDE 3.0 to KDE 3.3.1
>
> With the older version of Konky it was possible to
> toggle whether or not to show the hidden (dot) files
> and, if displayed, they appeared at the end of the
> directory listing.

In 3.2.3 it is still under "View" in the drop down menus.

> Now they appear at the top.
> I have looked everywhere I can think of and I can not
> find a place to toggle OFF showing hidden files.
> Does anyone know where this toggle is hidden?
> Failing that is there anyway to get them pushed to the
> bottom of the directory listing?

Which view mode are you using? Unintuitive, but sometimes how they were last 
sorted under a previous mode will effect how they sort in the current one, 
which may lack a choice.
-- 
William


From jknapka at kneuro.net  Thu Jan 13 18:19:41 2005
From: jknapka at kneuro.net (Joe Knapka)
Date: Thu Jan 13 18:19:41 2005
Subject: [ale] Pagining in Linux
In-Reply-To: <1104955639.6294.8.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
References: <1104955639.6294.8.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
Message-ID: <m3acrdc4f3.fsf@telzey.localdomain>

Christopher Fowler <cfowler at outpostsentinel.com> writes:

> Is anyone using "old school" style paging in Linux?  What software is
> there?

There are two options, more or less.

-- Joe

-- 
No sig for you today.
--
pub  1024D/BA496D2B 2004-05-14 Joseph A Knapka
     Key fingerprint = 3BA2 FE72 3CBA D4C2 21E4  C9B4 3230 94D7 BA49 6D2B
If you really want to get my attention, send mail to
jknapka .at. kneuro .dot. net.


From jimmyc at speedfactory.net  Thu Jan 13 19:27:02 2005
From: jimmyc at speedfactory.net (Jim Philips)
Date: Thu Jan 13 19:27:02 2005
Subject: [ale] mutiple e-mail address management - kmail
In-Reply-To: <41E64BD2.9020905@alltc.com>
References: <200501130157.38351.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<cd08a04c0501130737333031bc@mail.gmail.com>
	<41E64BD2.9020905@alltc.com>
Message-ID: <200501131922.48090.jimmyc@speedfactory.net>

On Thursday 13 January 2005 05:22 am, Barry Hawkins wrote:
> Warren Myers wrote:
> | I would suggest moving to Thunderbird 1.0. It allows you to pick your
> |
> |>From address in a drop-down, and will suck all your incoming mail into
> |
> | one inbox, if you want, or it can use seperate inboxes for the
> | different accounts.
> |
> | It's what I use at home, and find it to work really nicely.
> |
> | WMM
>
> Agreed.  Thunderbird is my primary email client.  Great with multiple
> email accounts, POP or IMAP, SSL support, excellent GPG integration via
> the Enigmail extension, good filters support, and adaptive junk mail
> filtering.

If they get an integrated calendar, I might think about switching. I know 
there is Sunbird, but it isn't ready yet. Until then...


From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Thu Jan 13 20:19:16 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Thu Jan 13 20:19:16 2005
Subject: [ale] Pagining in Linux
In-Reply-To: <m3acrdc4f3.fsf@telzey.localdomain>
References: <1104955639.6294.8.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
	<m3acrdc4f3.fsf@telzey.localdomain>
Message-ID: <1105665300.13441.0.camel@linux.linxdev.com>

On Thu, 2005-01-13 at 18:09, Joe Knapka wrote:
> Christopher Fowler <cfowler at outpostsentinel.com> writes:
> 
> > Is anyone using "old school" style paging in Linux?  What software is
> > there?
> 
> There are two options, more or less.
> 

You made me laugh :)

I should have said beepers.

> -- Joe


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Thu Jan 13 20:21:06 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Thu Jan 13 20:21:06 2005
Subject: [ale] Pagining in Linux
In-Reply-To: <1105665300.13441.0.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
References: <1104955639.6294.8.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>	<m3acrdc4f3.fsf@telzey.localdomain>
	<1105665300.13441.0.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
Message-ID: <41E71D91.40208@3times25.net>

Christopher Fowler wrote:
> On Thu, 2005-01-13 at 18:09, Joe Knapka wrote:
> 
>>Christopher Fowler <cfowler at outpostsentinel.com> writes:
>>
>>
>>>Is anyone using "old school" style paging in Linux?  What software is
>>>there?
>>
>>There are two options, more or less.
>>
> 
> 
> You made me laugh :)

The funny thing is, I thought you really were talking about paging as in 
the OS...

> I should have said beepers.

I used to send numeric pages via cu.  That was a while back though.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From skurzak at hotmail.com  Thu Jan 13 21:27:00 2005
From: skurzak at hotmail.com (Tomek Skurzak)
Date: Thu Jan 13 21:27:00 2005
Subject: [ale] Need help with Installation
References: <BAY102-F39F1B88D71779F94662FAAA0880@phx.gbl><41E46FA0.1090101@3times25.net>	<41E59CE7.602@mindspring.com><BAY102-DAV9A0DF865C8A9A9FEA3425A0890@phx.gbl>
	<41E6E57A.70007@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <BAY102-DAV5BEAB6E34978202B3E928A08B0@phx.gbl>

> Tomek Skurzak wrote:
>
> >>Geoffrey wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Tomek Skurzak wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>i am new to Linux. I tried to install Yoper and Suse. In both cases I
> >>>>had problems with the video card. The bottom line is that I can not
> >>>>see anything on the screen after the linux boots up. Even when I try
> >>>>to adjust the screen visuals inside the monitor.
> >>>>
> >>>>Would you know any commands in the shell I could use to change the
> >>>>graphics? or any other suggestions?
> >>>>
> >>>>The box is IBM  PII 300MHz.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>Do you know what video card it has?  Switch to a virtual console
> >>>(ctrl-alt-F3 should work) and then check out /var/log/XFree86.0.log or
> >>>/var/log/Xorg.0.log depending on what version you're running.  If you
> >>>can't figure out what's going on there, post the contents of the log
> >>>file and we'll go from there.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>I had the exact same card and tried to install Suse8.2 a while back. Did
> >>not work. Contacted Suse about this. Was told that they consider this an
> >>obsolete card and sorry, no help.
> >>Good luck, Cor van Dijk
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Do you know any other version of linux (excluding Suse and Yoper) that
would
> >run with S3 Trio64V2 video controller?
> >_______________________________________________
> >Ale mailing list
> >Ale at ale.org
> >http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> >
> >
> >
> I am presently running Enterprise Linux on a machine with a different
card.
> According to the cards listed here, S3 Trio64V2 is supported.
> According to /proc/version, the exact name of this distro is "Red Hat
> Linux 3.2.3-20",
> kernel 2.4.21-4.EL.
> Hope this helps. Cor van Dijk

I lowered the qualtiy of the screen to 640x480 and I was able to log in and
see the xwindows. It is not the best configuration because the icons are big
but that is a step forward. I am trying to install suse 9.1 and I will see.
 Maybe I will try the RedHat you stated above.Thanks for help.


From rgreen at salug.org  Thu Jan 13 21:28:20 2005
From: rgreen at salug.org (Rick Green)
Date: Thu Jan 13 21:28:20 2005
Subject: [ale] Alabama LUGFest 2005 Update
In-Reply-To: <41E682E2.9030308@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0501132023420.22269-100000@spaceghost>

Thanks Preston,

Sory if it wasn't obvious enough for the screen challenged.  I'll do
better next time :-)

-Rick

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005, Preston Boyington wrote:

> Geoffrey wrote:
> > Rick Green wrote:
> > 
> >> Hello ALE list members,
> >>
> >> The alabamalugfest.org web site is now fully working.
>         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> <snipped>
> > 
> > Links?  Links?  I don't see no stinkin' Links?
> > 
> 
> http://alabamalugfest.org/
> 
> anyone else thinking of going?  i'm located in Dothan, AL and possibly 
> have only 1 other rider at this point.
> 
> Preston
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 


From jloden at toughguy.net  Thu Jan 13 22:00:48 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Thu Jan 13 22:00:48 2005
Subject: [ale] Debian sound part II
Message-ID: <200501132154.28611.jloden@toughguy.net>

ok, I posted earlier about having sound issues on my laptop, Well, I tried 
some things mentioned here, and suddenly, sound returned sort of out of 
nowhere.  Today, I restarted, and it was gone...again. 

I am at my total wits end, when i try to start artsd, I get: 

###################################
[root at tpad dev]# artsd -f
Error while initializing the sound driver:
device /dev/dsp can't be opened (No such device)

The sound server will continue, using the null output device.
####################################

I honestly just can't think of what else to check, and I can't stand that this 
problem keeps kicking my butt.  When I run alsaconf it detects the card fine, 
and lspci lists it as 

0000:00:06.0 Multimedia audio controller: ALi Corporation M5451 PCI AC-Link 
Controller Audio Device (rev 01)

which is exactly what alsaconf detects.  Furthermore, the module ali5451 is 
listed as being loaded in lsmod. 

I really want to get this fixed, I would really appreciate any help!

-Jay


From jloden at toughguy.net  Thu Jan 13 22:15:59 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Thu Jan 13 22:15:59 2005
Subject: [ale] Debian sound part II
In-Reply-To: <200501132154.28611.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <200501132154.28611.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <200501132209.40237.jloden@toughguy.net>

Quick update, I found this in dmesg just now: 

ALSA sound/pci/ac97/ac97_codec.c:1794: AC'97 0 does not respond - RESET
ALSA sound/pci/ac97/ac97_codec.c:1802: AC'97 0 access is not valid [0x0], 
removing mixer.
ALSA sound/pci/ali5451/ali5451.c:1895: ali mixer creating error.
ALSA sound/pci/ac97/ac97_codec.c:1794: AC'97 0 does not respond - RESET
ALSA sound/pci/ac97/ac97_codec.c:1802: AC'97 0 access is not valid [0x0], 
removing mixer.
ALSA sound/pci/ali5451/ali5451.c:1895: ali mixer creating error.

Anyone know what this is?  I'm guess I'm going to need to go hack around 
in /etc/modprobe.d  or something, but I'm not familiar with it. 
-Jay


On Thursday 13 January 2005 9:54, Jay Loden wrote:
> ok, I posted earlier about having sound issues on my laptop, Well, I tried
> some things mentioned here, and suddenly, sound returned sort of out of
> nowhere.  Today, I restarted, and it was gone...again.
>
> I am at my total wits end, when i try to start artsd, I get:
>
> ###################################
> [root at tpad dev]# artsd -f
> Error while initializing the sound driver:
> device /dev/dsp can't be opened (No such device)
>
> The sound server will continue, using the null output device.
> ####################################
>
> I honestly just can't think of what else to check, and I can't stand that
> this problem keeps kicking my butt.  When I run alsaconf it detects the
> card fine, and lspci lists it as
>
> 0000:00:06.0 Multimedia audio controller: ALi Corporation M5451 PCI AC-Link
> Controller Audio Device (rev 01)
>
> which is exactly what alsaconf detects.  Furthermore, the module ali5451 is
> listed as being loaded in lsmod.
>
> I really want to get this fixed, I would really appreciate any help!
>
> -Jay
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From barry at alltc.com  Thu Jan 13 22:18:47 2005
From: barry at alltc.com (Barry Hawkins)
Date: Thu Jan 13 22:18:47 2005
Subject: [ale] Sample config files for i386 2.6.10 kernels
Message-ID: <41E738E6.8050409@alltc.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

This post is for Zeb, whom I just met at the ALE Central meeting
tonight.  Zeb has Slackware on a PIII box running a 2.4.x kernel, and is
having trouble with a 2.6.10 kernel he is trying to compile.  I am
really a Debian PowerPC person, so I don't know the story on Slackware
kernel packaging, etc.  However I recommended starting with the default
kernel configuration for his architecture that comes with the kernel
tarball.  I was surprised to find only one sample kernel config for i386:

/usr/src/linux/arch/i386/defconfig

whereas with PowerPC, we have a host of them:

$ ls -x -w 63 /usr/src/linux/arch/ppc/configs/
adir_defconfig      ads8272_defconfig    apus_defconfig
ash_defconfig       beech_defconfig      bseip_defconfig
bubinga_defconfig   cedar_defconfig      common_defconfig
cpci405_defconfig   ebony_defconfig      ep405_defconfig
est8260_defconfig   ev64260_defconfig    FADS_defconfig
gemini_defconfig    ibmchrp_defconfig    IVMS8_defconfig
k2_defconfig        lite5200_defconfig   lopec_defconfig
mbx_defconfig       mcpn765_defconfig    menf1_defconfig
mvme5100_defconfig  oak_defconfig        ocotea_defconfig
pcore_defconfig     pmac_defconfig       power3_defconfig
pplus_defconfig     prpmc750_defconfig   prpmc800_defconfig
rainier_defconfig   redwood5_defconfig   redwood6_defconfig
redwood_defconfig   rpx8260_defconfig    rpxcllf_defconfig
rpxlite_defconfig   sandpoint_defconfig  SM850_defconfig
SPD823TS_defconfig  spruce_defconfig     sycamore_defconfig
TQM823L_defconfig   TQM8260_defconfig    TQM850L_defconfig
TQM860L_defconfig   walnut_defconfig

He could start with that one, but if anyone has suggestions for a 2.6.10
kernel for Slackware (version?) running on a PIII with 256MB RAM, I am
sure it would be much appreciated

Regards,
- --
Barry Hawkins
All Things Computed
site: www.alltc.com
weblog: www.yepthatsme.com

Registered Linux User #368650
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From james at sumners.ath.cx  Thu Jan 13 22:19:33 2005
From: james at sumners.ath.cx (James Sumners)
Date: Thu Jan 13 22:19:33 2005
Subject: [ale] Debian sound part II
In-Reply-To: <200501132209.40237.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <200501132154.28611.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<200501132209.40237.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <20050113221533.108b32d8@sumners.ath.cx>

May be time for a new sound card. AC97 cards are horrid any way.

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:09:39 -0500
Jay Loden <jloden at toughguy.net> wrote:

> Quick update, I found this in dmesg just now: 
> 
> ALSA sound/pci/ac97/ac97_codec.c:1794: AC'97 0 does not respond - RESET
> ALSA sound/pci/ac97/ac97_codec.c:1802: AC'97 0 access is not valid [0x0], 
> removing mixer.
> ALSA sound/pci/ali5451/ali5451.c:1895: ali mixer creating error.
> ALSA sound/pci/ac97/ac97_codec.c:1794: AC'97 0 does not respond - RESET
> ALSA sound/pci/ac97/ac97_codec.c:1802: AC'97 0 access is not valid [0x0], 
> removing mixer.
> ALSA sound/pci/ali5451/ali5451.c:1895: ali mixer creating error.
> 
> Anyone know what this is?  I'm guess I'm going to need to go hack around 
> in /etc/modprobe.d  or something, but I'm not familiar with it. 
> -Jay

-- 
James Sumners
http://ug.dyndns.org/~jsumners/

"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological
personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the
corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a
condition to which they are quickly addicted."

Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto)
CH:D 59


From jeb at rev-x.com  Thu Jan 13 22:24:51 2005
From: jeb at rev-x.com (Jeb Barger)
Date: Thu Jan 13 22:24:51 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux on an IMAC G3
Message-ID: <41E73A07.2000209@rev-x.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1



I have recently inherited an older imac clamshell g3.  I did some
searches for a good os for the laptop and came accross yellowdog linux.

Anybody ever use it?  or have any other suggestions?
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From jloden at toughguy.net  Thu Jan 13 22:47:12 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Thu Jan 13 22:47:12 2005
Subject: [ale] Debian sound part II
In-Reply-To: <20050113221533.108b32d8@sumners.ath.cx>
References: <200501132154.28611.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<200501132209.40237.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<20050113221533.108b32d8@sumners.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <200501132240.59378.jloden@toughguy.net>

On Thursday 13 January 2005 10:15, James Sumners wrote:
> May be time for a new sound card. AC97 cards are horrid any way.

Um....yes, but I dont have much say as to what's in my laptop.  I'd LOVE to 
trade it in for a nice PowerBook or brand new Thinkpad, but unfortunately 
that's not in the cards as a college student. 

I just checked and the sound is still working under Windows, so it's not the 
sound card itself gone bad, at least. 

-Jay


From tfreeman at intel.digichem.net  Thu Jan 13 23:09:24 2005
From: tfreeman at intel.digichem.net (tfreeman at intel.digichem.net)
Date: Thu Jan 13 23:09:24 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux on an IMAC G3
In-Reply-To: <41E73A07.2000209@rev-x.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0501132245480.13038-100000@intel.digichem.net>


I have the recent release of Yellow Dog running on a G3 imac just fine. 
Installation was a breeze except for sound, which is still "sort of" 
working. (There seems to be something about sound under Linux...) Well, 
there was one other issue. I ran out of room on the original hard disk to 
have both Linux and OS 9x dual booting, so I performed the needed surgury 
to install a 60 meg drive. Be aware that the first two imacs require the 
boot information to reside in the first 6-7Gigs of the drive, and the 
partition can not extend past those 6-7 Gigs. The easy way around the 
limitation if you have it is to put a small boot partition at the 
beginning of the disk, just like you often do with intel equipment.

I understand that the Debian release is supposed to be good also, but I 
haven't looked at it.

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005, Jeb Barger wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> 
> 
> I have recently inherited an older imac clamshell g3.  I did some
> searches for a good os for the laptop and came accross yellowdog linux.
> 
> Anybody ever use it?  or have any other suggestions?
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> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 

-- 
=============================================
If you think Education is expensive
Try Ignorance
                   Author Unknown
============================================


From barry at alltc.com  Thu Jan 13 23:16:46 2005
From: barry at alltc.com (Barry Hawkins)
Date: Thu Jan 13 23:16:46 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux on an IMAC G3
In-Reply-To: <41E73A07.2000209@rev-x.com>
References: <41E73A07.2000209@rev-x.com>
Message-ID: <41E746BB.3010606@alltc.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Jeb Barger wrote:
|
|
| I have recently inherited an older imac clamshell g3.  I did some
| searches for a good os for the laptop and came accross yellowdog linux.
|
| Anybody ever use it?  or have any other suggestions?
Jeb,
~   I have personally had a good experience with the Debian PowerPC port
on Macs; check out the Debian PowerPC mailing list archives[0] for info
on your specific model.  The new Debian Installer[1] should boot right
up for you by holding down C just like with Mac OS installs.

[0] - http://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/
[1] - http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/

Regards,
- --
Barry Hawkins
All Things Computed
site: www.alltc.com
weblog: www.yepthatsme.com

Registered Linux User #368650
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From byron at cc.gatech.edu  Thu Jan 13 23:47:41 2005
From: byron at cc.gatech.edu (Byron A Jeff)
Date: Thu Jan 13 23:47:41 2005
Subject: [ale] Debian sound part II
In-Reply-To: <200501132154.28611.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <200501132154.28611.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <20050114044339.GA29837@cleon.cc.gatech.edu>

On Thu, Jan 13, 2005 at 09:54:28PM -0500, Jay Loden wrote:
> ok, I posted earlier about having sound issues on my laptop, Well, I tried 
> some things mentioned here, and suddenly, sound returned sort of out of 
> nowhere.  Today, I restarted, and it was gone...again. 
> 
> I am at my total wits end, when i try to start artsd, I get: 

I have an answer for you: interrupt conflict.

I had the same problem. It turns out that the sound card and the parallel
port were sharing interrupt 7. When I disabled the parallel port in the
BIOS, the sound worked fine thereafter.

BAJ


From jloden at toughguy.net  Thu Jan 13 23:54:38 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Thu Jan 13 23:54:38 2005
Subject: [ale] Debian sound part II
In-Reply-To: <20050114044339.GA29837@cleon.cc.gatech.edu>
References: <200501132154.28611.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<20050114044339.GA29837@cleon.cc.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <200501132348.26977.jloden@toughguy.net>

I'll go reboot, but I think parallel port is already disabled.  How do I check 
for conflicts ? 

-Jay

On Thursday 13 January 2005 11:43, Byron A Jeff wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 13, 2005 at 09:54:28PM -0500, Jay Loden wrote:
> > ok, I posted earlier about having sound issues on my laptop, Well, I
> > tried some things mentioned here, and suddenly, sound returned sort of
> > out of nowhere.  Today, I restarted, and it was gone...again.
> >
> > I am at my total wits end, when i try to start artsd, I get:
>
> I have an answer for you: interrupt conflict.
>
> I had the same problem. It turns out that the sound card and the parallel
> port were sharing interrupt 7. When I disabled the parallel port in the
> BIOS, the sound worked fine thereafter.
>
> BAJ
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From jrickman at gmail.com  Fri Jan 14 00:02:35 2005
From: jrickman at gmail.com (Jonathan Rickman)
Date: Fri Jan 14 00:02:35 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux on an IMAC G3
In-Reply-To: <41E746BB.3010606@alltc.com>
References: <41E73A07.2000209@rev-x.com> <41E746BB.3010606@alltc.com>
Message-ID: <2802c522050113205870bd418e@mail.gmail.com>

> | I have recently inherited an older imac clamshell g3.  I did some
> | searches for a good os for the laptop and came accross yellowdog linux.

I've run YellowDog 3 and 4, Fedora PPC, and Debian on PPC. YellowDog
is by far the easiest to get up and running, but Debian provides a
better overall experience. Fedora PPC just sucks all the way around.
OpenDarwin is better than any Linux distribution on PPC as far as I
have seen, but it will be somewhat difficult to maintain unless you
have a BSD background and like ports. I have OD 7.2.1 (Panther)
running on an Orange iMac. Runs great. Took 4 1/2 hours to get totally
set up though. Building from source is tedious on those old
processors.

--
Jonathan


From byron at cc.gatech.edu  Fri Jan 14 00:58:57 2005
From: byron at cc.gatech.edu (Byron A Jeff)
Date: Fri Jan 14 00:58:57 2005
Subject: [ale] Debian sound part II
In-Reply-To: <200501132348.26977.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <200501132154.28611.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<20050114044339.GA29837@cleon.cc.gatech.edu>
	<200501132348.26977.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <20050114052210.GA1899@cleon.cc.gatech.edu>

On Thu, Jan 13, 2005 at 11:48:26PM -0500, Jay Loden wrote:
> I'll go reboot, but I think parallel port is already disabled.  How do I check 
> for conflicts ? 

Use dmesg. When the driver loads it'll give you information such as the
interrupts. You can't look into /proc/interrupts because the second driver
(the sound card) doesn't load.

BAJ
> 
> -Jay
> 
> On Thursday 13 January 2005 11:43, Byron A Jeff wrote:
> > On Thu, Jan 13, 2005 at 09:54:28PM -0500, Jay Loden wrote:
> > > ok, I posted earlier about having sound issues on my laptop, Well, I
> > > tried some things mentioned here, and suddenly, sound returned sort of
> > > out of nowhere.  Today, I restarted, and it was gone...again.
> > >
> > > I am at my total wits end, when i try to start artsd, I get:
> >
> > I have an answer for you: interrupt conflict.
> >
> > I had the same problem. It turns out that the sound card and the parallel
> > port were sharing interrupt 7. When I disabled the parallel port in the
> > BIOS, the sound worked fine thereafter.
> >
> > BAJ
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From n4zm at mindspring.com  Fri Jan 14 01:14:41 2005
From: n4zm at mindspring.com (zeb)
Date: Fri Jan 14 01:14:41 2005
Subject: [ale] Debian sound part II
In-Reply-To: <20050113221533.108b32d8@sumners.ath.cx>
References: <200501132154.28611.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<200501132209.40237.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<20050113221533.108b32d8@sumners.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <200501140024.16464.n4zm@mindspring.com>

On Thursday 13 January 2005 22:15, James Sumners wrote:
> May be time for a new sound card. AC97 cards are horrid any way.
>
> On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:09:39 -0500
>
> Jay Loden <jloden at toughguy.net> wrote:
> > Quick update, I found this in dmesg just now:
> >
> > ALSA sound/pci/ac97/ac97_codec.c:1794: AC'97 0 does not respond -
> > RESET ALSA sound/pci/ac97/ac97_codec.c:1802: AC'97 0 access is
> > not valid [0x0], removing mixer.
> > ALSA sound/pci/ali5451/ali5451.c:1895: ali mixer creating error.
> > ALSA sound/pci/ac97/ac97_codec.c:1794: AC'97 0 does not respond -
> > RESET ALSA sound/pci/ac97/ac97_codec.c:1802: AC'97 0 access is
> > not valid [0x0], removing mixer.
> > ALSA sound/pci/ali5451/ali5451.c:1895: ali mixer creating error.
> >
> > Anyone know what this is?  I'm guess I'm going to need to go hack
> > around in /etc/modprobe.d  or something, but I'm not familiar
> > with it. -Jay
 
I run Slackware myself, so I know nothint about Debian.  I have 
installed ALSA.  After installing alsa-driver, alsa-lib, alsa-oss, 
and alsa-utils, one must insert the modules: modprobe snd-xxx 
(specific to your card), snd-pcm-oss, snd-mixer-oss, and snd-seq-oss. 
It's probably good to put those in rc.local.  Also you need to change 
permissions:  chmod 666 dsp* mixer* seq* midi* audio* music.  Have a 
look at ALSA-projects.org


From jloden at toughguy.net  Fri Jan 14 01:58:41 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Fri Jan 14 01:58:41 2005
Subject: [ale] Debian sound part II
In-Reply-To: <20050114052210.GA1899@cleon.cc.gatech.edu>
References: <200501132154.28611.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<200501132348.26977.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<20050114052210.GA1899@cleon.cc.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <200501140103.52895.jloden@toughguy.net>

ACPI: PCI Interrupt Link [PILG] (IRQs 1 3 4 5 6 7 10 *11 12 14 15)
ACPI: PCI Interrupt Link [PILH] (IRQs 1 3 4 5 6 7 10 *11 12 14 15)
ACPI: PCI Interrupt Link [PILI] (IRQs 1 3 4 5 6 7 *10 11 12 14 15)
ACPI: PCI Interrupt Link [PILH] enabled at IRQ 11
ACPI: PCI Interrupt Link [PILC] enabled at IRQ 6
ACPI: No IRQ known for interrupt pin A of device 0000:00:10.0 - using IRQ 15
ACPI: PCI Interrupt Link [PILD] enabled at IRQ 10
ACPI: PCI Interrupt Link [PILI] enabled at IRQ 10
ACPI: PCI Interrupt Link [PILA] enabled at IRQ 10
PCI: Using ACPI for IRQ routing
ACPI: No IRQ known for interrupt pin A of device 0000:00:10.0 - using IRQ 15
ALI15X3: not 100% native mode: will probe irqs later
ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 on irq 14
ide1 at 0x170-0x177,0x376 on irq 15
 hda: hda1 hda3 < hda5 hda6spurious 8259A interrupt: IRQ7.
serio: i8042 AUX port at 0x60,0x64 irq 12
serio: i8042 KBD port at 0x60,0x64 irq 1
ohci_hcd 0000:00:14.0: irq 10, pci mem d4331000
Yenta: ISA IRQ mask 0x0000, PCI irq 6
Yenta: ISA IRQ mask 0x0838, PCI irq 10
eth0: index 0x01: Vcc 3.3, irq 6, io 0x0100-0x013f
floppy0: Unable to grab IRQ6 for the floppy driver
Serial: 8250/16550 driver $Revision: 1.90 $ 8 ports, IRQ sharing disabled

That's what dmesg | grep -i irq returns 
I dont spot anything immediately uncool

-Jay

On Friday 14 January 2005 12:22, Byron A Jeff wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 13, 2005 at 11:48:26PM -0500, Jay Loden wrote:
> > I'll go reboot, but I think parallel port is already disabled.  How do I
> > check for conflicts ?
>
> Use dmesg. When the driver loads it'll give you information such as the
> interrupts. You can't look into /proc/interrupts because the second driver
> (the sound card) doesn't load.
>
> BAJ


From jloden at toughguy.net  Fri Jan 14 02:07:18 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Fri Jan 14 02:07:18 2005
Subject: [ale] Debian sound part II
In-Reply-To: <200501140024.16464.n4zm@mindspring.com>
References: <200501132154.28611.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<20050113221533.108b32d8@sumners.ath.cx>
	<200501140024.16464.n4zm@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <200501140141.22127.jloden@toughguy.net>

Thanks, I tried all that too, but I'm STILL in the same screwed up place. 
sigh.  This thing is just ridiculously annoying!

-Jay

On Friday 14 January 2005 12:24, zeb wrote:
>
> I run Slackware myself, so I know nothint about Debian.  I have
> installed ALSA.  After installing alsa-driver, alsa-lib, alsa-oss,
> and alsa-utils, one must insert the modules: modprobe snd-xxx
> (specific to your card), snd-pcm-oss, snd-mixer-oss, and snd-seq-oss.
> It's probably good to put those in rc.local.  Also you need to change
> permissions:  chmod 666 dsp* mixer* seq* midi* audio* music.  Have a
> look at ALSA-projects.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From audilover at speedfactory.net  Fri Jan 14 03:27:45 2005
From: audilover at speedfactory.net (Raylynn Knight)
Date: Fri Jan 14 03:27:45 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux on an IMAC G3
In-Reply-To: <41E73A07.2000209@rev-x.com>
References: <41E73A07.2000209@rev-x.com>
Message-ID: <1105689454.24557.6.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>

On Thu, 2005-01-13 at 21:18 -0600, Jeb Barger wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> 
> 
> I have recently inherited an older imac clamshell g3.  I did some
> searches for a good os for the laptop and came accross yellowdog linux.
> 
> Anybody ever use it?  or have any other suggestions?

Yellow Dog 3.0 is getting long in the tooth.  There is a newer released
based on Fedora FC3, but it won't boot on any of the Mac's I have.  

We'll be doing an install of Ubuntu (a Debian based distrubtion) on a
Beige G3 at the ALE NW meeting next Thursday.  You're welcome to bring
your box and follow along!  I'll have a few extra CD's in case anyone is
interested.

Ray



From dcorbin at machturtle.com  Fri Jan 14 07:14:02 2005
From: dcorbin at machturtle.com (David Corbin)
Date: Fri Jan 14 07:14:02 2005
Subject: [ale] Fonts...
Message-ID: <200501140707.59982.dcorbin@machturtle.com>

Is it practical to simply remove all non-scalable fonts from a desktop 
(gentoo) system, and still have reasonable selections for basic work?

Davdi


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Fri Jan 14 08:08:55 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Fri Jan 14 08:08:55 2005
Subject: [ale] Sample config files for i386 2.6.10 kernels
In-Reply-To: <41E738E6.8050409@alltc.com>
References: <41E738E6.8050409@alltc.com>
Message-ID: <41E7C372.6050804@3times25.net>

Barry Hawkins wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> This post is for Zeb, whom I just met at the ALE Central meeting
> tonight.

Yeah, we've all heard it before.  I've got this friend with a problem.... :)

> Zeb has Slackware on a PIII box running a 2.4.x kernel, and is
> having trouble with a 2.6.10 kernel he is trying to compile.  I am
> really a Debian PowerPC person, so I don't know the story on Slackware
> kernel packaging, etc.

What I would recommend is, download the latest kernel from kernel.org or 
some mirror.  Read the README in the /usr/src/linux directory that is 
created when unpacking the source.  It's very clear on how to build a 
new kernel.  He should use the 'make menuconfig' option if he's building 
from a console.  'make xconfig if he's building from X.

He can also look at using make oldconfig, which will default off of the 
current kernel's config.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Fri Jan 14 08:09:49 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Fri Jan 14 08:09:49 2005
Subject: [ale] Debian sound part II
In-Reply-To: <20050113221533.108b32d8@sumners.ath.cx>
References: <200501132154.28611.jloden@toughguy.net>	<200501132209.40237.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<20050113221533.108b32d8@sumners.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <41E7C3A3.5030208@3times25.net>

James Sumners wrote:
> May be time for a new sound card. AC97 cards are horrid any way.

A lot of mb's come with them on board too.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jrickman at gmail.com  Fri Jan 14 08:11:36 2005
From: jrickman at gmail.com (Jonathan Rickman)
Date: Fri Jan 14 08:11:36 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux on an IMAC G3
In-Reply-To: <1105689454.24557.6.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
References: <41E73A07.2000209@rev-x.com>
	<1105689454.24557.6.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
Message-ID: <2802c5220501140507676eafab@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 02:57:34 -0500, Raylynn Knight
<audilover at speedfactory.net> wrote:
> Yellow Dog 3.0 is getting long in the tooth.  There is a newer released
> based on Fedora FC3, but it won't boot on any of the Mac's I have.


YellowDog 4 will work on your Beige box if you use BootX from a Mac
Partition. The default kernel does not support the UW SCSI, so you
have to get a little creative if you have that, but otherwise it is
fine. Personally, I'll never go through that nonsense again though. It
was just an exercise performed to prove it could be done.

--
Jonathan


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Fri Jan 14 08:13:39 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Fri Jan 14 08:13:39 2005
Subject: [ale] Debian sound part II
In-Reply-To: <200501132348.26977.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <200501132154.28611.jloden@toughguy.net>	<20050114044339.GA29837@cleon.cc.gatech.edu>
	<200501132348.26977.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <41E7C48E.9060500@3times25.net>

Jay Loden wrote:
> I'll go reboot, but I think parallel port is already disabled.  How
> do I check for conflicts ?

You can cat /proc/interrupts

Typically, shared irqs will be shown here.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From pmazer at gmail.com  Fri Jan 14 08:21:43 2005
From: pmazer at gmail.com (Parker McGee)
Date: Fri Jan 14 08:21:43 2005
Subject: [ale] Fonts...
In-Reply-To: <200501140707.59982.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
References: <200501140707.59982.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
Message-ID: <41dc545405011405173cacf0bc@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not really sure of the answer to this (as I've never tried it),
but I am curious: why?


On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 07:07:59 -0500, David Corbin <dcorbin at machturtle.com> wrote:
> Is it practical to simply remove all non-scalable fonts from a desktop
> (gentoo) system, and still have reasonable selections for basic work?
> 
> Davdi
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 


-- 
Parker McGee


From aaron at pd.org  Fri Jan 14 09:38:43 2005
From: aaron at pd.org (aaron)
Date: Fri Jan 14 09:38:43 2005
Subject: [ale] GNOME Journal article: The Liberal Arts Major Test
In-Reply-To: <41E67025.9090407@alltc.com>
References: <41E67025.9090407@alltc.com>
Message-ID: <200501141024.31615.aaron@pd.org>


Good link and article. Thanks for noting it.

>From experiences setting up my daughter with Mandrake, I think the "average" 

high school and early college students are our best target demographic for 
switching to Linux.  At that stage of growing we are all more open minded, 
receptive to change and more likely to appreciate the advantages in system 
control, customization and flexibility that Linux offers. The main hard to 
switch exceptions are specialty app fans like hard core computer gamers who 
demand the latest releases and drivers for the bleeding edge hardware.

After her first semester at college, my daughter is still very happy with her 
Mandrake box and the Linux / OSS apps, and is accepting of the fact
that her sometimes her system won't  support the same things that the latest 
Main$tream, commercial supported systems do.

Her biggest complaint is not finding a spread sheet as complete and well 
designed as M$ ex-hell.  She uses Open Office for other apps, but is not 
happy with the spread sheet area.

Anyone know of Linux based Spread Sheet alternatives that honestly meet or 
surpass the M$ ex-hell offering?

peace
aaron




On Thursday 13 January 2005 12:57, Barry Hawkins wrote:
> Not sure how many keep up with GNOME Journal, but this was an
> interesting piece that made it to Slashdot:
> 
> The Liberal Arts Major Test
> http://www.gnomejournal.org/article/13/the-liberal-arts-major-test
> 
> This guy apparently installed Debian sid on a scrapper of an x86 PC and
> showed his friend the basics and left her to it - 2 years ago.  The
> title plays off of those Grandmother Tests that kept popping up when
> Linux on the desktop first became a hot topic.
> 
> --
> Barry Hawkins
> All Things Computed
> site: www.alltc.com
> weblog: www.yepthatsme.com
> 
> Registered Linux User #368650
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> 


From david.muse at firstworks.com  Fri Jan 14 09:47:07 2005
From: david.muse at firstworks.com (David Muse)
Date: Fri Jan 14 09:47:07 2005
Subject: [ale] GNOME Journal article: The Liberal Arts Major Test
In-Reply-To: <200501141024.31615.aaron@pd.org>
References: <41E67025.9090407@alltc.com>
	<200501141024.31615.aaron@pd.org>
Message-ID: <20050114094307.4e6cc818@neptune.4accesscommunications.com>

I remember reading an article once where Gnumeric was once touted as
being matched with Excel, feature-for-feature.  I used it exclusively
until OpenOffice started being included in Linux distributions.  It
seemed to be at least as good as OpenOffice Calc, I only switched out
of laziness.  I wasn't exactly a power user though so I'm not certain
whether it's really better than OO's spreadsheet or not.  You may want
to give it a try though.

http://www.gnome.org/projects/gnumeric/

David Muse
david.muse at firstworks.com


On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 10:24:31 +0000
aaron <aaron at pd.org> wrote:

> 
> Good link and article. Thanks for noting it.
> 
> From experiences setting up my daughter with Mandrake, I think the
> "average" high school and early college students are our best target
> demographic for switching to Linux.  At that stage of growing we are
> all more open minded, receptive to change and more likely to
> appreciate the advantages in system control, customization and
> flexibility that Linux offers. The main hard to switch exceptions are
> specialty app fans like hard core computer gamers who demand the
> latest releases and drivers for the bleeding edge hardware.
> 
> After her first semester at college, my daughter is still very happy
> with her Mandrake box and the Linux / OSS apps, and is accepting of
> the fact that her sometimes her system won't  support the same things
> that the latest Main$tream, commercial supported systems do.
> 
> Her biggest complaint is not finding a spread sheet as complete and
> well designed as M$ ex-hell.  She uses Open Office for other apps, but
> is not happy with the spread sheet area.
> 
> Anyone know of Linux based Spread Sheet alternatives that honestly
> meet or surpass the M$ ex-hell offering?
> 
> peace
> aaron
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Thursday 13 January 2005 12:57, Barry Hawkins wrote:
> > Not sure how many keep up with GNOME Journal, but this was an
> > interesting piece that made it to Slashdot:
> > 
> > The Liberal Arts Major Test
> > http://www.gnomejournal.org/article/13/the-liberal-arts-major-test
> > 
> > This guy apparently installed Debian sid on a scrapper of an x86 PC
> > and showed his friend the basics and left her to it - 2 years ago. 
> > The title plays off of those Grandmother Tests that kept popping up
> > when Linux on the desktop first became a hot topic.
> > 
> > --
> > Barry Hawkins
> > All Things Computed
> > site: www.alltc.com
> > weblog: www.yepthatsme.com
> > 
> > Registered Linux User #368650
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> > 
> > 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 


From n4zm at mindspring.com  Fri Jan 14 10:10:25 2005
From: n4zm at mindspring.com (zeb)
Date: Fri Jan 14 10:10:25 2005
Subject: [ale] kernel 2.6.10 problem
Message-ID: <200501141005.20534.n4zm@mindspring.com>

Barry wasn't fooling.  He didn't have a problem.  I did.  At the ALE 
central meeting, he mentioned he had 2.6.10 working.  After the 
formal meeting was over, I asked him how he did it.  He was gracious 
enough to look it up and post to the list.

I have an old "white box" machine, an Asus P2B with an early Pentium 
III at 400 MHz, 512 MB of system RAM and some other stuff.

I installed Slack 10 with kernel 2.4.26 on hda1 and it worked nicely.

I tried to install Slack 10 with kernel 2.6.10 on hda1 (the same 
partition).  I couldn't get the kernel to compile.  Tried several 
different config files with no luck.  I reinstalled Slack 10 from 
scratch, reformatting the drive.  Then I recompiled the 2.6.10 
kernal, and it went well.  I put the new bzImage and System.map in 
the boot partition and changed lilo to reflect both kernels.  

2.24.26 would boot and run just fine.

2.6.10 would crash giving me the message: "kernel panic: can't mount 
root on (somewhere).

This problem was solved by linking "System.map-2.6.10" to 
"System.map".

2.4.26 still boots, using "bzImage-2.4.26" and "System.map-2.4.26"

2.6.10 wouldn't boot using "bzImage-2.6.10" and "System.map-2.6.10".

2.6.10 will boot using "bzImage -> bzImage-2.6.10" and "System.map -> 
System.map-2.6.10".  Interesting.....

Thanks Barry for the effort.
  
For what it's worth.....(and if it's any help)

Regards to all....Zeb

P.S.   Enjoyed James McKinney's talk last night.  Well done! 


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Fri Jan 14 10:12:55 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Fri Jan 14 10:12:55 2005
Subject: [ale] kernel 2.6.10 problem
In-Reply-To: <200501141005.20534.n4zm@mindspring.com>
References: <200501141005.20534.n4zm@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <41E7E08C.3090008@3times25.net>

zeb wrote:
> Barry wasn't fooling.  He didn't have a problem.  I did.

You didn't spot my smiley?  I was yanking your femur.  Glad to hear you 
got it working.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From barry at alltc.com  Fri Jan 14 10:27:43 2005
From: barry at alltc.com (Barry Hawkins)
Date: Fri Jan 14 10:27:43 2005
Subject: [ale] kernel 2.6.10 problem
In-Reply-To: <200501141005.20534.n4zm@mindspring.com>
References: <200501141005.20534.n4zm@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <41E7E3A4.2090609@alltc.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

zeb wrote:
[...]
| Thanks Barry for the effort.
|
| For what it's worth.....(and if it's any help)
[...]
So glad to hear you got it working.  Hopefully some improvements in the
2.6 line will make the trouble worthwhile!

Regards,
- --
Barry Hawkins
All Things Computed
site: www.alltc.com
weblog: www.yepthatsme.com

Registered Linux User #368650
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YsIiNZ9dtZmoj8jkCAvoWqY=
=Ftla
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From gharri2 at emory.edu  Fri Jan 14 10:31:27 2005
From: gharri2 at emory.edu (Grady Harris)
Date: Fri Jan 14 10:31:27 2005
Subject: Subject: Re: [ale] Linux on an IMAC G3
In-Reply-To: <200501141311.j0EDBT9H012935@juliet.cc.emory.edu>
References: <200501141311.j0EDBT9H012935@juliet.cc.emory.edu>
Message-ID: <1105716444.41e7e4dc111c4@webmail.service.emory.edu>

Yet another option--I installed Gentoo on an iBook G3 a year or so ago, worked
fine, but that, too, was just to see how it could be done & learn more about a
different hardware set-up. Fun, but I never got the display to be satisfactory.

A few months ago, tried the new version they're developing, but I didn't get
far.

Grady Harris


From mpwright at speedfactory.net  Fri Jan 14 10:44:11 2005
From: mpwright at speedfactory.net (Mark Wright)
Date: Fri Jan 14 10:44:11 2005
Subject: [ale] GNOME Journal article: The Liberal Arts Major Test/Excel
	recommendation 
In-Reply-To: <200501141024.31615.aaron@pd.org>
References: <41E67025.9090407@alltc.com> <200501141024.31615.aaron@pd.org>
Message-ID: <8394A904-6642-11D9-8C8B-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>

This was on /. recently.  The article on News Forge was very positive.   
It is not cheap but I would buy it if I needed those power user  
features that those power user types I used to work with thought were  
important.

http://www.softmaker.de/pml_en.htm

http://software.newsforge.com/software/04/06/24/167224.shtml? 
tid=82&tid=93

Mark,



On Jan 14, 2005, at 5:24 AM, aaron wrote:

>
> Good link and article. Thanks for noting it.
>
> From experiences setting up my daughter with Mandrake, I think the  
> "average"
> high school and early college students are our best target demographic  
> for
> switching to Linux.  At that stage of growing we are all more open  
> minded,
> receptive to change and more likely to appreciate the advantages in  
> system
> control, customization and flexibility that Linux offers. The main  
> hard to
> switch exceptions are specialty app fans like hard core computer  
> gamers who
> demand the latest releases and drivers for the bleeding edge hardware.
>
> After her first semester at college, my daughter is still very happy  
> with her
> Mandrake box and the Linux / OSS apps, and is accepting of the fact
> that her sometimes her system won't  support the same things that the  
> latest
> Main$tream, commercial supported systems do.
>
> Her biggest complaint is not finding a spread sheet as complete and  
> well
> designed as M$ ex-hell.  She uses Open Office for other apps, but is  
> not
> happy with the spread sheet area.
>
> Anyone know of Linux based Spread Sheet alternatives that honestly  
> meet or
> surpass the M$ ex-hell offering?
>
> peace
> aaron
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday 13 January 2005 12:57, Barry Hawkins wrote:
>> Not sure how many keep up with GNOME Journal, but this was an
>> interesting piece that made it to Slashdot:
>>
>> The Liberal Arts Major Test
>> http://www.gnomejournal.org/article/13/the-liberal-arts-major-test
>>
>> This guy apparently installed Debian sid on a scrapper of an x86 PC  
>> and
>> showed his friend the basics and left her to it - 2 years ago.  The
>> title plays off of those Grandmother Tests that kept popping up when
>> Linux on the desktop first became a hot topic.
>>
>> --
>> Barry Hawkins
>> All Things Computed
>> site: www.alltc.com
>> weblog: www.yepthatsme.com
>>
>> Registered Linux User #368650
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ale mailing list
>> Ale at ale.org
>> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>


From barry at alltc.com  Fri Jan 14 11:03:28 2005
From: barry at alltc.com (Barry Hawkins)
Date: Fri Jan 14 11:03:28 2005
Subject: [ale] mutiple e-mail address management - kmail
In-Reply-To: <200501131922.48090.jimmyc@speedfactory.net>
References: <200501130157.38351.jloden@toughguy.net>	<cd08a04c0501130737333031bc@mail.gmail.com>	<41E64BD2.9020905@alltc.com>
	<200501131922.48090.jimmyc@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <41E7EBFB.3020504@alltc.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Jim Philips wrote:
[...]
| If they get an integrated calendar, I might think about switching. I know
| there is Sunbird, but it isn't ready yet. Until then...
[...]
That is indeed the painful part right now.

- --
Barry Hawkins
All Things Computed
site: www.alltc.com
weblog: www.yepthatsme.com

Registered Linux User #368650
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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From allanneal at bellsouth.net  Fri Jan 14 13:38:58 2005
From: allanneal at bellsouth.net (Allan Neal)
Date: Fri Jan 14 13:38:58 2005
Subject: [ale] Pagining in Linux
In-Reply-To: <41E71D91.40208@3times25.net>
References: <1104955639.6294.8.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
	<m3acrdc4f3.fsf@telzey.localdomain>
	<1105665300.13441.0.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
	<41E71D91.40208@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <20050114183435.GB3690@Tashina.neal>

There is qpage.  I have never set it up other that the client, but we use it
here at work for most of our monitoring paging.

Allan

On Thu, Jan 13, 2005 at 08:17:05PM -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> Christopher Fowler wrote:
> >On Thu, 2005-01-13 at 18:09, Joe Knapka wrote:
> >
> >>Christopher Fowler <cfowler at outpostsentinel.com> writes:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Is anyone using "old school" style paging in Linux?  What software is
> >>>there?
> >>
> >>There are two options, more or less.
> >>
> >
> >
> >You made me laugh :)
> 
> The funny thing is, I thought you really were talking about paging as in 
> the OS...
> 
> >I should have said beepers.
> 
> I used to send numeric pages via cu.  That was a while back though.
> 
> -- 
> Until later, Geoffrey
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

-- 
 __^__                                          __^__
( ___ )----------------------------------------( ___ )
 | / | "Engineers aren't boring people,         | \ |
 | / | we just get excited about boring things" | \ |
 |___|                 --Anon                   |___|
(_____)----------------------------------------(_____)
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From drifter at oppositelock.org  Fri Jan 14 13:42:09 2005
From: drifter at oppositelock.org (Sean Kilpatrick)
Date: Fri Jan 14 13:42:09 2005
Subject: [ale] KDE help needed
In-Reply-To: <200501131631.51169.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <200501131558.16310.drifter@oppositelock.org>
	<200501131631.51169.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <200501141337.28045.drifter@oppositelock.org>

On Thursday 13 January 2005 04:31 pm, Jay Loden wrote:
| I could be totally off base, but if you mean konqueror, you go to View ==> 
| Show Hidden Files and uncheck it 


Thanks.  That did it.

I was looking through all the configuration files and never noticed
the line under the "View" menu.

Sean

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From mhirsch at nubridges.com  Fri Jan 14 14:06:27 2005
From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael Hirsch)
Date: Fri Jan 14 14:06:27 2005
Subject: [ale] Thanks to Jim Kinney
Message-ID: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF043D730D@germanium.numethods.com>

Jim Kinney gave a very nice talk last night about Linux software for
small and medium sized businesses.  Thanks, Jim!

 

I put the slides from his talk on the ALE Twiki server in the previous
speakers page: 

http://tomshiro.org/cgi-bin/twiki/view/ALE/PreviousSpeakers

 

Michael

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From rdavis at panasonicatlanta.com  Fri Jan 14 14:08:02 2005
From: rdavis at panasonicatlanta.com (Davis, Ringo Lester)
Date: Fri Jan 14 14:08:02 2005
Subject: [ale] Ltermcap error
Message-ID: <28C67C8F8DA9124888FA2620399BCA6A01B7B7E4@atlexc01.panasonicatlanta.com>

I just installed Mandrake 10.0 and I'm trying to compile a demo program
(so it should work) but I get an error "cannot find -ltermcap".
I checked /usr/lib and don't see ltermcap, libtermcap, or anything
similair. Since I'm new to Linux I installed with mostly default
options, did I miss a package or something when I installed? If so I'm
assuming I can just re-run the install and add the packages I need, is
this correct?
Thanks
Ringo


-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Sean
Kilpatrick
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 1:37 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] KDE help needed

On Thursday 13 January 2005 04:31 pm, Jay Loden wrote:
| I could be totally off base, but if you mean konqueror, you go to View
==> 
| Show Hidden Files and uncheck it 


Thanks.  That did it.

I was looking through all the configuration files and never noticed
the line under the "View" menu.

Sean 
 
 --Appended by Panasonic Mobile Communications
 Development Corporation of U.S.A.-----This e-mail
 and any attachments may contain information that is
 confidential, proprietary, privileged or otherwise
 protected by law. The information is solely intended
 for the named addressee (or a person responsible for
 delivering it to the addressee). If you are not the
 intended recipient of this message, you are not
 authorized to read, print, retain, copy or
 disseminate this message or any part of it. If you
 have received this e-mail in error, please notify
 the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete
 it from your computer.


From runman at speedfactory.net  Fri Jan 14 14:18:06 2005
From: runman at speedfactory.net (Greg)
Date: Fri Jan 14 14:18:06 2005
Subject: [ale] mutiple e-mail address management - kmail
In-Reply-To: <41E7EBFB.3020504@alltc.com>
Message-ID: <001301c4fa6d$86d0d9f0$0a00a8c0@atlas>

As well as support for pda's.  There *is* a project to integrate Sunbird
into Thunderbird but it has just started.  I have used Sunbird for awhile
and it seems to be ok as a standalone calendar app.

Greg



-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org]On Behalf Of Barry
Hawkins
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 10:58 AM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] mutiple e-mail address management - kmail


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Jim Philips wrote:
[...]
| If they get an integrated calendar, I might think about switching. I know
| there is Sunbird, but it isn't ready yet. Until then...
[...]
That is indeed the painful part right now.

- --
Barry Hawkins
All Things Computed
site: www.alltc.com
weblog: www.yepthatsme.com

Registered Linux User #368650
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux)

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J+T75sy4BiKjHhyZIKcYDNU=
=qs9g
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From griffisb at bellsouth.net  Fri Jan 14 14:19:15 2005
From: griffisb at bellsouth.net (BruceG)
Date: Fri Jan 14 14:19:15 2005
Subject: [ale] Thanks to Jim Kinney
In-Reply-To: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF043D730D@germanium.numethods.com>
References: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF043D730D@germanium.numethods.com>
Message-ID: <200501141414.44010.griffisb@bellsouth.net>

On Friday 14 January 2005 2:02 pm, Michael Hirsch wrote:
> Jim Kinney gave a very nice talk last night about Linux software for
> small and medium sized businesses.  Thanks, Jim!
>
>
>
> I put the slides from his talk on the ALE Twiki server in the previous
> speakers page:
>
> http://tomshiro.org/cgi-bin/twiki/view/ALE/PreviousSpeakers

Thanks - I wanted very much to attend. If that topic ever comes up again, or 
possibly makes it over to Kennesaw - I'll definately check it out.


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Fri Jan 14 14:29:01 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Fri Jan 14 14:29:01 2005
Subject: [ale] Ltermcap error
In-Reply-To: <28C67C8F8DA9124888FA2620399BCA6A01B7B7E4@atlexc01.panasonicatlanta.com>
References: <28C67C8F8DA9124888FA2620399BCA6A01B7B7E4@atlexc01.panasonicatlanta.com>
Message-ID: <41E81C8E.6030606@3times25.net>

Davis, Ringo (Lester) wrote:
> I just installed Mandrake 10.0 and I'm trying to compile a demo program
> (so it should work) but I get an error "cannot find -ltermcap".
> I checked /usr/lib and don't see ltermcap, libtermcap, or anything
> similair. Since I'm new to Linux I installed with mostly default
> options, did I miss a package or something when I installed? If so I'm
> assuming I can just re-run the install and add the packages I need, is
> this correct?

You're probably missing the termcap package.  I sent you another message 
on how to get into the package management system on Mandrake.  Did you 
get it?  Follow those instructions and type termcap in the search box.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From rdavis at panasonicatlanta.com  Fri Jan 14 14:40:01 2005
From: rdavis at panasonicatlanta.com (Davis, Ringo Lester)
Date: Fri Jan 14 14:40:01 2005
Subject: [ale] Ltermcap error
Message-ID: <28C67C8F8DA9124888FA2620399BCA6A01B7B7E7@atlexc01.panasonicatlanta.com>

I didn't get it, but I'm at work tight now and if you sent it home to
the Margaritas address then I'll get it tonight.
So it's just something I need to install, that's good to know.
Thanks
Ringo


-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
Geoffrey
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 2:25 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] Ltermcap error

Davis, Ringo (Lester) wrote:
> I just installed Mandrake 10.0 and I'm trying to compile a demo
program
> (so it should work) but I get an error "cannot find -ltermcap".
> I checked /usr/lib and don't see ltermcap, libtermcap, or anything
> similair. Since I'm new to Linux I installed with mostly default
> options, did I miss a package or something when I installed? If so I'm
> assuming I can just re-run the install and add the packages I need, is
> this correct?

You're probably missing the termcap package.  I sent you another message

on how to get into the package management system on Mandrake.  Did you 
get it?  Follow those instructions and type termcap in the search box.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale 
 
 --Appended by Panasonic Mobile Communications
 Development Corporation of U.S.A.-----This e-mail
 and any attachments may contain information that is
 confidential, proprietary, privileged or otherwise
 protected by law. The information is solely intended
 for the named addressee (or a person responsible for
 delivering it to the addressee). If you are not the
 intended recipient of this message, you are not
 authorized to read, print, retain, copy or
 disseminate this message or any part of it. If you
 have received this e-mail in error, please notify
 the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete
 it from your computer.


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Fri Jan 14 16:00:10 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Fri Jan 14 16:00:10 2005
Subject: [ale] Ltermcap error
In-Reply-To: <28C67C8F8DA9124888FA2620399BCA6A01B7B7E7@atlexc01.panasonicatlanta.com>
References: <28C67C8F8DA9124888FA2620399BCA6A01B7B7E7@atlexc01.panasonicatlanta.com>
Message-ID: <41E831E8.5050408@3times25.net>

Davis, Ringo (Lester) wrote:
> I didn't get it, but I'm at work tight now and if you sent it home to
> the Margaritas address then I'll get it tonight.
> So it's just something I need to install, that's good to know.

Likely it is.  I don't have a Mandrake box running right now, but if you 
can locate the package management menu option and you can search for the 
termcap package and get it installed.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From rsowen at speedfactory.net  Fri Jan 14 17:15:30 2005
From: rsowen at speedfactory.net (Bob Owen)
Date: Fri Jan 14 17:15:30 2005
Subject: [ale] SUSE 9.2
Message-ID: <200501141717.14214.rsowen@speedfactory.net>

I downloaded and burned a DVD copy of SUSE 9.2 a couple of days ago.  I did an 
upgrade on a 9.1 box, but it did some strange things.  In trying to go into 
YAST, it put a string of dots in the pwd line before I could begin to type 
the pwd.  After a cold reboot it doesn't do that any more.

I've been a SUSE user since v6.4, which I installed on a 133MH laptop.  What I 
would like is to have SUSE users  to share experiences on doing an upgrade vs 
doing a new install.  I've always done a new install when changing versions, 
I guess because of bad experiences with upgrading MS.  

Thanks

Bob


From jimmyc at speedfactory.net  Fri Jan 14 18:50:51 2005
From: jimmyc at speedfactory.net (Jim Philips)
Date: Fri Jan 14 18:50:51 2005
Subject: [ale] mutiple e-mail address management - kmail
In-Reply-To: <41E7EBFB.3020504@alltc.com>
References: <200501130157.38351.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<200501131922.48090.jimmyc@speedfactory.net>
	<41E7EBFB.3020504@alltc.com>
Message-ID: <200501141846.30699.jimmyc@speedfactory.net>

On Friday 14 January 2005 10:57 am, Barry Hawkins wrote:
> Jim Philips wrote:
> [...]
>
> | If they get an integrated calendar, I might think about switching. I know
> | there is Sunbird, but it isn't ready yet. Until then...
>
> [...]
> That is indeed the painful part right now.

Another nice feature of Kmail is integration with Spamassassin or Bogofilter. 
I KDE 3.4 Beta, every e-mail shows a graphical indicator of that messages 
Spamassassin score. Thunderbird's spam-blocking tool is okay, but it comes 
"untaught". Spamassassin is already "taught" when you get it and ready to 
learn more.


From jloden at toughguy.net  Fri Jan 14 20:59:38 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Fri Jan 14 20:59:38 2005
Subject: [ale] Ltermcap error
In-Reply-To: <41E831E8.5050408@3times25.net>
References: <28C67C8F8DA9124888FA2620399BCA6A01B7B7E7@atlexc01.panasonicatlanta.com>
	<41E831E8.5050408@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <200501142053.24756.jloden@toughguy.net>

Package management is under System, Configuration, Packaging, Install Packages

It is accessible from command line as urpmi (for install) urpmq (for search 
query) urpmf (for find package containing file) or urpme (remove) 

-Jay

On Friday 14 January 2005 3:56, Geoffrey wrote:
> Davis, Ringo (Lester) wrote:
> > I didn't get it, but I'm at work tight now and if you sent it home to
> > the Margaritas address then I'll get it tonight.
> > So it's just something I need to install, that's good to know.
>
> Likely it is.  I don't have a Mandrake box running right now, but if you
> can locate the package management menu option and you can search for the
> termcap package and get it installed.


From ringo at margaritasrus.com  Fri Jan 14 21:22:37 2005
From: ringo at margaritasrus.com (ringo)
Date: Fri Jan 14 21:22:37 2005
Subject: [ale] Ltermcap error
In-Reply-To: <200501142053.24756.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <014501c4faa8$780ec4a0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>

Thanks, I got that fixed.
Ringo

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Jay
Loden
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 8:53 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] Ltermcap error

Package management is under System, Configuration, Packaging, Install
Packages

It is accessible from command line as urpmi (for install) urpmq (for
search 
query) urpmf (for find package containing file) or urpme (remove) 

-Jay

On Friday 14 January 2005 3:56, Geoffrey wrote:
> Davis, Ringo (Lester) wrote:
> > I didn't get it, but I'm at work tight now and if you sent it home
to
> > the Margaritas address then I'll get it tonight.
> > So it's just something I need to install, that's good to know.
>
> Likely it is.  I don't have a Mandrake box running right now, but if
you
> can locate the package management menu option and you can search for
the
> termcap package and get it installed.
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale




From esoteric at 3times25.net  Fri Jan 14 22:03:37 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Fri Jan 14 22:03:37 2005
Subject: [ale] SUSE 9.2
In-Reply-To: <200501141717.14214.rsowen@speedfactory.net>
References: <200501141717.14214.rsowen@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <41E886E4.10207@3times25.net>

Bob Owen wrote:
> I downloaded and burned a DVD copy of SUSE 9.2 a couple of days ago.
> I did an upgrade on a 9.1 box, but it did some strange things.  In
> trying to go into YAST, it put a string of dots in the pwd line
> before I could begin to type the pwd.  After a cold reboot it doesn't
> do that any more.
> 
> I've been a SUSE user since v6.4, which I installed on a 133MH
> laptop.  What I would like is to have SUSE users  to share
> experiences on doing an upgrade vs doing a new install.  I've always
> done a new install when changing versions, I guess because of bad
> experiences with upgrading MS.

I generally do a re-install, although I've done a couple of upgrades 
with 9.2 that were quite successful.

Since I generally need everything working on my boxen, I historically 
keep a dual boot environment so that I can build a new install while 
retaining my previous instance.  Once I get the new install working 
completely, I move to it full time.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jloden at toughguy.net  Fri Jan 14 22:11:07 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Fri Jan 14 22:11:07 2005
Subject: [ale] Debian sound part II
In-Reply-To: <41E7C48E.9060500@3times25.net>
References: <200501132154.28611.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<200501132348.26977.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<41E7C48E.9060500@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <200501142204.39955.jloden@toughguy.net>

  0:    4972473        XT-PIC  timer
  1:      18279           XT-PIC  i8042
  2:          0            XT-PIC  cascade
  6:     183048           XT-PIC  yenta, orinoco_cs
  8:          4          XT-PIC  rtc
  9:       7431         XT-PIC  acpi
 10:          5            XT-PIC  ohci_hcd, yenta
 12:     109595        XT-PIC  i8042
 14:      23477           XT-PIC  ide0
 15:        550           XT-PIC  ide1
NMI:          0
ERR:          7

Is that what I think it is?  Does that mean an IRQ conflict for 7 ? 

If so, how the heck do I go about fixing this? 

-Jay

On Friday 14 January 2005 8:09, Geoffrey wrote:
> Jay Loden wrote:
> > I'll go reboot, but I think parallel port is already disabled.  How
> > do I check for conflicts ?
>
> You can cat /proc/interrupts
>
> Typically, shared irqs will be shown here.


From habieb at myrealbox.com  Fri Jan 14 22:17:41 2005
From: habieb at myrealbox.com (H. Bieber)
Date: Fri Jan 14 22:17:41 2005
Subject: [ale] SUSE 9.2 Pro free from Novell
Message-ID: <1105758813.69ce73chabieb@myrealbox.com>

I just received this email from Novell....

Harold
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

SUSE LINUX Professional 9.2 free download available 

WALTHAM, Mass. * January 14, 2005 * Novell today announced the availability of it's highly acclaimed consumer product, SUSE LINUX Professional 9.2, as a free download at ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/i386/. This free offering will enable Linux users to trial the latest open source desktop, server and application functionality that has become the hallmark of the SUSE LINUX consumer distribution. As opposed to the LiveDVD version, which will boot directly from the DVD without modifying the hard disk, this is a fully installable version and is not time limited. 

This free offer of SUSE LINUX Professional 9.2 provides a perfect starting point for many individuals to use and get to know a Linux distribution better. Novell provides the latest and greatest Linux technology available to a broad audience by bringing together thousands of open source software packages into an ideal Linux operating system.

Customers who are looking for additional installation support, comprehensive manuals and the software in a conveniently packaged media kit can obtain a boxed versions at all major retail outlets or visit our homepage http://www.novell.com/products/linuxprofessional/

###

Press Contact:

Jasmin Ul-Haque
Novell, Inc.
+44-01344-326-966
juh at novell.com




Registered Linux User #277269
http://counter.li.org


From pmazer at gmail.com  Fri Jan 14 22:21:58 2005
From: pmazer at gmail.com (Parker McGee)
Date: Fri Jan 14 22:21:58 2005
Subject: [ale] SUSE 9.2 Pro free from Novell
In-Reply-To: <1105758813.69ce73chabieb@myrealbox.com>
References: <1105758813.69ce73chabieb@myrealbox.com>
Message-ID: <41dc54540501141917716fc96e@mail.gmail.com>

My first reaction to this is, why would they do it?  Was 9.2 Pro such
a flop, or are they relying on people wanting to buy the box for the
manual and disk?  I just don't understand the motivation.


On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 22:13:33 -0500, H. Bieber <habieb at myrealbox.com> wrote:
> I just received this email from Novell....
> 
> Harold
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> 
> SUSE LINUX Professional 9.2 free download available
> 
> WALTHAM, Mass. * January 14, 2005 * Novell today announced the availability of it's highly acclaimed consumer product, SUSE LINUX Professional 9.2, as a free download at ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/i386/. This free offering will enable Linux users to trial the latest open source desktop, server and application functionality that has become the hallmark of the SUSE LINUX consumer distribution. As opposed to the LiveDVD version, which will boot directly from the DVD without modifying the hard disk, this is a fully installable version and is not time limited.
> 
> This free offer of SUSE LINUX Professional 9.2 provides a perfect starting point for many individuals to use and get to know a Linux distribution better. Novell provides the latest and greatest Linux technology available to a broad audience by bringing together thousands of open source software packages into an ideal Linux operating system.
> 
> Customers who are looking for additional installation support, comprehensive manuals and the software in a conveniently packaged media kit can obtain a boxed versions at all major retail outlets or visit our homepage http://www.novell.com/products/linuxprofessional/
> 
> ###
> 
> Press Contact:
> 
> Jasmin Ul-Haque
> Novell, Inc.
> +44-01344-326-966
> juh at novell.com
> 
> Registered Linux User #277269
> http://counter.li.org
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 


-- 
Parker McGee


From james at sumners.ath.cx  Fri Jan 14 23:35:58 2005
From: james at sumners.ath.cx (James Sumners)
Date: Fri Jan 14 23:35:58 2005
Subject: [ale] SUSE 9.2 Pro free from Novell
In-Reply-To: <41dc54540501141917716fc96e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1105758813.69ce73chabieb@myrealbox.com>
	<41dc54540501141917716fc96e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050114233158.5b28cee6@sumners.ath.cx>

With 9.1 (I think) SuSE decided to release the install CDs after they have been
available for sale for a while. Basically, they cater to their paying customers
first and then let everyone else in. It is the same thing that the Linspire and
Xandros(?) people do. You don't get any real support but you do get to use the
system that comes in the box on the shelf.

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 22:17:53 -0500
Parker McGee <pmazer at gmail.com> wrote:

> My first reaction to this is, why would they do it?  Was 9.2 Pro such
> a flop, or are they relying on people wanting to buy the box for the
> manual and disk?  I just don't understand the motivation.

-- 
James Sumners
http://ug.dyndns.org/~jsumners/

"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological
personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the
corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a
condition to which they are quickly addicted."

Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto)
CH:D 59


From runman at speedfactory.net  Fri Jan 14 23:51:01 2005
From: runman at speedfactory.net (Greg)
Date: Fri Jan 14 23:51:01 2005
Subject: [ale] SUSE 9.2 Pro free from Novell
In-Reply-To: <41dc54540501141917716fc96e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001801c4fabd$867a6e30$0a00a8c0@atlas>

Well, the motivations can include :

	1. The GPL stipulates that they have to make any improvements available
anyway.
	2. They are fighting MS, RH, Fedora, Sun, HP, IBM, and others for market
share.  Giving stuff away for free can help (remember MS Internet Explorer
?)
	3. Corporations and first time users will buy the boxed set (which normally
includes 2 manuals that are pretty comprehensive and really helpful).
	4. The folks who won't buy the boxed sets will get it from other places
anyway (CheapBytes, bit torrents, etc...)
	5. Folks who use it at home will want to use it at work.
	6. You keep ticking your customer base off and they will leave and never
come back - as either a personal user or in the workplace (like RH probably
did to many).
	7. Those who believe in supporting Open Source companies will buy the boxed
set regardless.
	8. I think the boxed set comes with some support for a limited period while
other sources don't include this.  This is important to many folks - See #
3.
	9. You catch more customers / supporters with honey than vinegar - this
kinda ties in with #2.
	10. To make up for no Personal version (just joking).

	That's all I can think of at the moment.

	Greg




-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org]On Behalf Of
Parker McGee
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 10:18 PM
To: habieb at myrealbox.com; Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] SUSE 9.2 Pro free from Novell


My first reaction to this is, why would they do it?  Was 9.2 Pro such
a flop, or are they relying on people wanting to buy the box for the
manual and disk?  I just don't understand the motivation.


On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 22:13:33 -0500, H. Bieber <habieb at myrealbox.com> wrote:
> I just received this email from Novell....
>
> Harold
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> SUSE LINUX Professional 9.2 free download available
>
> WALTHAM, Mass. * January 14, 2005 * Novell today announced the
availability of it's highly acclaimed consumer product, SUSE LINUX
Professional 9.2, as a free download at ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/i386/.
This free offering will enable Linux users to trial the latest open source
desktop, server and application functionality that has become the hallmark
of the SUSE LINUX consumer distribution. As opposed to the LiveDVD version,
which will boot directly from the DVD without modifying the hard disk, this
is a fully installable version and is not time limited.
>
> This free offer of SUSE LINUX Professional 9.2 provides a perfect starting
point for many individuals to use and get to know a Linux distribution
better. Novell provides the latest and greatest Linux technology available
to a broad audience by bringing together thousands of open source software
packages into an ideal Linux operating system.
>
> Customers who are looking for additional installation support,
comprehensive manuals and the software in a conveniently packaged media kit
can obtain a boxed versions at all major retail outlets or visit our
homepage http://www.novell.com/products/linuxprofessional/
>
> ###
>
> Press Contact:
>
> Jasmin Ul-Haque
> Novell, Inc.
> +44-01344-326-966
> juh at novell.com
>
> Registered Linux User #277269
> http://counter.li.org
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>


--
Parker McGee
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Sat Jan 15 10:32:53 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Sat Jan 15 10:32:53 2005
Subject: [ale] Debian sound part II
In-Reply-To: <200501142204.39955.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <200501132154.28611.jloden@toughguy.net>	<200501132348.26977.jloden@toughguy.net>	<41E7C48E.9060500@3times25.net>
	<200501142204.39955.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <41E93679.20605@3times25.net>

Jay Loden wrote:
>   0:    4972473        XT-PIC  timer
>   1:      18279           XT-PIC  i8042
>   2:          0            XT-PIC  cascade
>   6:     183048           XT-PIC  yenta, orinoco_cs
>   8:          4          XT-PIC  rtc
>   9:       7431         XT-PIC  acpi
>  10:          5            XT-PIC  ohci_hcd, yenta
>  12:     109595        XT-PIC  i8042
>  14:      23477           XT-PIC  ide0
>  15:        550           XT-PIC  ide1
> NMI:          0
> ERR:          7
> 
> Is that what I think it is?  Does that mean an IRQ conflict for 7 ?

I'm not sure, never seen this before.

> If so, how the heck do I go about fixing this?

Since 7 is usually set aside for the parallel port, try disabling the 
parallel port in your bios to see if things change.  If they do, but you 
need the parallel port, then you'll need to shuffle some irqs around me 
thinks.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Sat Jan 15 10:34:34 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Sat Jan 15 10:34:34 2005
Subject: [ale] SUSE 9.2 Pro free from Novell
In-Reply-To: <1105758813.69ce73chabieb@myrealbox.com>
References: <1105758813.69ce73chabieb@myrealbox.com>
Message-ID: <41E9371B.1070404@3times25.net>

H. Bieber wrote:
> I just received this email from Novell....
> 
> Harold
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> 
> SUSE LINUX Professional 9.2 free download available 

That's interesting, although it's not the same as the retail package. 
The retail package is a dual layer dvd containing over 7 gig of stuff. 
Further, you also get a 2nd dvd that contains source.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jloden at toughguy.net  Sat Jan 15 10:39:11 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Sat Jan 15 10:39:11 2005
Subject: [ale] Debian sound part II
In-Reply-To: <41E93679.20605@3times25.net>
References: <200501132154.28611.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<200501142204.39955.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<41E93679.20605@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <200501151032.46527.jloden@toughguy.net>

On Saturday 15 January 2005 10:27, Geoffrey wrote:

> Since 7 is usually set aside for the parallel port, try disabling the
> parallel port in your bios to see if things change.  If they do, but you
> need the parallel port, then you'll need to shuffle some irqs around me
> thinks.

Parallel port is already disabled :(  

The interrupts listed in /proc/interrupts also appear to change.
As of right now, it says: 

  0:   49594130          XT-PIC  timer
  1:     127016          XT-PIC  i8042
  2:          0          XT-PIC  cascade
  6:     923698          XT-PIC  yenta, orinoco_cs
  8:          4          XT-PIC  rtc
  9:       7579          XT-PIC  acpi
 10:          5          XT-PIC  ohci_hcd, yenta
 12:     806177          XT-PIC  i8042
 14:      83435          XT-PIC  ide0
 15:        598          XT-PIC  ide1
NMI:          0
ERR:         41

instead.  I've noticed that despite running alsaconf, et al, The install still 
thinks I have no sound cards.  I'm getting really low on ideas, and I'm 
tempted to do a reinstall right now, except that I'm really happy with the 
state of everything else.  I've spent two days on this in IRC and google 
trying to get help and so far it's been a dry hole. 

-Jay


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 15 10:50:21 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sat Jan 15 10:50:21 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux boot screen
Message-ID: <1105803919.6611.5.camel@blue>

I've been looking into cleaning up the boot/start-up on my laptop,
specifically, I would like to not display all the debug info but rather
a linux splash screen.  Google yields lots about old/out-dated projects,
but nothing too current.  Does anyone have any good experience with
this, or perhaps some updated details. 

Thx,

-Jim P.




From jloden at toughguy.net  Sat Jan 15 11:04:58 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Sat Jan 15 11:04:58 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux boot screen
In-Reply-To: <1105803919.6611.5.camel@blue>
References: <1105803919.6611.5.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <200501151058.38323.jloden@toughguy.net>

you want to use "splash"

I did this the opposite direction, shutting off my splash screen on my laptop 
so I could see the debug. 

You need to install a splash theme, then you can use something like 
splash -n /etc/bootsplash/themes/linux/bootsplash-1024x768.cfg

I think that's what I used, something similar at least. 

-Jay

On Saturday 15 January 2005 10:45, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> I've been looking into cleaning up the boot/start-up on my laptop,
> specifically, I would like to not display all the debug info but rather
> a linux splash screen.  Google yields lots about old/out-dated projects,
> but nothing too current.  Does anyone have any good experience with
> this, or perhaps some updated details.
>
> Thx,
>
> -Jim P.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From rsowen at speedfactory.net  Sat Jan 15 11:08:07 2005
From: rsowen at speedfactory.net (Bob Owen)
Date: Sat Jan 15 11:08:07 2005
Subject: [ale] SUSE 9.2
In-Reply-To: <41E886E4.10207@3times25.net>
References: <200501141717.14214.rsowen@speedfactory.net>
	<41E886E4.10207@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <200501151111.26260.rsowen@speedfactory.net>

On Friday 14 January 2005 21:58, Geoffrey wrote:
> Bob Owen wrote:
> > I downloaded and burned a DVD copy of SUSE 9.2 a couple of days ago.
> > I did an upgrade on a 9.1 box, but it did some strange things.  In
> > trying to go into YAST, it put a string of dots in the pwd line
> > before I could begin to type the pwd.  After a cold reboot it doesn't
> > do that any more.
> >
> > I've been a SUSE user since v6.4, which I installed on a 133MH
> > laptop.  What I would like is to have SUSE users  to share
> > experiences on doing an upgrade vs doing a new install.  I've always
> > done a new install when changing versions, I guess because of bad
> > experiences with upgrading MS.
>
> I generally do a re-install, although I've done a couple of upgrades
> with 9.2 that were quite successful.
>
> Since I generally need everything working on my boxen, I historically
> keep a dual boot environment so that I can build a new install while
> retaining my previous instance.  Once I get the new install working
> completely, I move to it full time.

Thanks, Geoffrey


From james at sumners.ath.cx  Sat Jan 15 11:09:22 2005
From: james at sumners.ath.cx (James Sumners)
Date: Sat Jan 15 11:09:22 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux boot screen
In-Reply-To: <1105803919.6611.5.camel@blue>
References: <1105803919.6611.5.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <20050115110516.6a11d1eb@sumners.ath.cx>

You are looking for bootsplash (http://www.bootsplash.org/). I believe once
Sarge is out the Debian project is going to work on implementing it for Debian.
As of right now you have to do it by hand. I found a tutorial for Debian at --
http://www.desktop-linux.net/bootsplash.htm

I know that Ubuntu will have it in their distribution come next release and SuSE
has it by default (as long as the framebuffer can support it). If you are using
another distribution your best but would be to search Google for "bootsplash
<distro_name>".

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 10:45:19 -0500
Jim Popovitch <jimpop at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I've been looking into cleaning up the boot/start-up on my laptop,
> specifically, I would like to not display all the debug info but rather
> a linux splash screen.  Google yields lots about old/out-dated projects,
> but nothing too current.  Does anyone have any good experience with
> this, or perhaps some updated details. 

-- 
James Sumners
http://ug.dyndns.org/~jsumners/

"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological
personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the
corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a
condition to which they are quickly addicted."

Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto)
CH:D 59


From james at sumners.ath.cx  Sat Jan 15 11:11:48 2005
From: james at sumners.ath.cx (James Sumners)
Date: Sat Jan 15 11:11:48 2005
Subject: [ale] SUSE 9.2
In-Reply-To: <41E886E4.10207@3times25.net>
References: <200501141717.14214.rsowen@speedfactory.net>
	<41E886E4.10207@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <20050115110742.1bd7c202@sumners.ath.cx>

I seriously hope that is not the established method for upgrading SuSE without
problems. I want to upgrade my grandfather's installation and I certainly won't
do all that.

Does anyone else have any experiences with updating SuSE?

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 21:58:44 -0500
Geoffrey <esoteric at 3times25.net> wrote:

> I generally do a re-install, although I've done a couple of upgrades 
> with 9.2 that were quite successful.
> 
> Since I generally need everything working on my boxen, I historically 
> keep a dual boot environment so that I can build a new install while 
> retaining my previous instance.  Once I get the new install working 
> completely, I move to it full time.

-- 
James Sumners
http://ug.dyndns.org/~jsumners/

"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological
personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the
corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a
condition to which they are quickly addicted."

Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto)
CH:D 59


From dcorbin at machturtle.com  Sat Jan 15 12:47:27 2005
From: dcorbin at machturtle.com (David Corbin)
Date: Sat Jan 15 12:47:27 2005
Subject: [ale] Fonts...
In-Reply-To: <41dc545405011405173cacf0bc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200501140707.59982.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
	<41dc545405011405173cacf0bc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200501151242.46129.dcorbin@machturtle.com>

On Friday 14 January 2005 08:17, Parker McGee wrote:
> I'm not really sure of the answer to this (as I've never tried it),
> but I am curious: why?

Well, I have numerous fonts that look like they're bitmaps being scaled up.  I 
really only need three fonts to keep me happy (a proportional serif, a 
proportional sans serif, and a fixed pitch sans serif (a fixed pitch serif 
would be OK, but rarely used)).  Of course, I want them in in many many 
different sizes.

Instead, I find hundreds of fonts that clutter my selections, and I can't get 
the system to show me what I want.

David


From jloden at toughguy.net  Sat Jan 15 13:17:33 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Sat Jan 15 13:17:33 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux boot screen
In-Reply-To: <20050115110516.6a11d1eb@sumners.ath.cx>
References: <1105803919.6611.5.camel@blue>
	<20050115110516.6a11d1eb@sumners.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <200501151311.19624.jloden@toughguy.net>

Er...I have it on my Mepis laptop, and I think it's just Debian 
testing...maybe Mepis included it.

-Jay

On Saturday 15 January 2005 11:05, James Sumners wrote:
> You are looking for bootsplash (http://www.bootsplash.org/). I believe once
> Sarge is out the Debian project is going to work on implementing it for
> Debian. As of right now you have to do it by hand. I found a tutorial for
> Debian at -- http://www.desktop-linux.net/bootsplash.htm
>
> I know that Ubuntu will have it in their distribution come next release and
> SuSE has it by default (as long as the framebuffer can support it). If you
> are using another distribution your best but would be to search Google for
> "bootsplash <distro_name>".
>
> On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 10:45:19 -0500
>
> Jim Popovitch <jimpop at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I've been looking into cleaning up the boot/start-up on my laptop,
> > specifically, I would like to not display all the debug info but rather
> > a linux splash screen.  Google yields lots about old/out-dated projects,
> > but nothing too current.  Does anyone have any good experience with
> > this, or perhaps some updated details.


From james at sumners.ath.cx  Sat Jan 15 13:34:04 2005
From: james at sumners.ath.cx (James Sumners)
Date: Sat Jan 15 13:34:04 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux boot screen
In-Reply-To: <200501151311.19624.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <1105803919.6611.5.camel@blue>
	<20050115110516.6a11d1eb@sumners.ath.cx>
	<200501151311.19624.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <20050115132725.32c47ada@sumners.ath.cx>

Mepis != Debian

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 13:11:19 -0500
Jay Loden <jloden at toughguy.net> wrote:

> Er...I have it on my Mepis laptop, and I think it's just Debian 
> testing...maybe Mepis included it.

-- 
James Sumners
http://ug.dyndns.org/~jsumners/

"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological
personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the
corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a
condition to which they are quickly addicted."

Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto)
CH:D 59


From griffisb at bellsouth.net  Sat Jan 15 15:09:04 2005
From: griffisb at bellsouth.net (BruceG)
Date: Sat Jan 15 15:09:04 2005
Subject: [ale] SUSE 9.2 Pro free from Novell
In-Reply-To: <1105758813.69ce73chabieb@myrealbox.com>
References: <1105758813.69ce73chabieb@myrealbox.com>
Message-ID: <200501151505.00748.griffisb@bellsouth.net>

On Friday 14 January 2005 10:13 pm, H. Bieber wrote:
> I just received this email from Novell....
>
>
> This free offer of SUSE LINUX Professional 9.2 provides a perfect starting
> point for many individuals to use 

That's good news! I purchased boxed sets of 8.2 Personal, 9.0 Pro and 9.1 Pro. 
I think the manuals are worth the price of admission. I'd definately consider 
a free version of 9.2 Pro if the manuals aren't all that different.

As a side note - I think it's time to start looking for general books on 
OpenOffice, The Gimp and Scribus. My wife does a bulletin for the church in 
Word Perfect, and is thinking of moving towards MS Word and MS Publisher - it 
might be cooler to know a little more about the alternatives. 

I know very little about OOo and The Gimp - and even less about Scribus. It's 
time to learn a bit more about writing Newsletters and bulletins using 
opensource tools. Hmmm, maybe I'll start with a newsletter for our Cub Scout 
Pack.

BruceG


From ale1 at cybertechcafe.net  Sat Jan 15 16:21:00 2005
From: ale1 at cybertechcafe.net (Nathan J. Underwood)
Date: Sat Jan 15 16:21:00 2005
Subject: [ale] OT -> Need help troubleshooting qmail
Message-ID: <41E9886E.2020206@cybertechcafe.net>

Over the past 3 days, I've started getting a TON of 'failure notices' 
that report to have been originally destined for domains that I host. 
The server that these domains have in common is a RH9 machine running 
the 'Plesk' version of qmail 
(psa-qmail-rblsmtpd-0.70-rh9.build71041118.17 and 
psa-qmail-1.03-rh9.build71041124.11).  The messages that I'm receiving 
are 'bounced bounces', and I'm really not sure where to start.  I've 
captured 218 of them, but can't see any real similarities between them 
(source IP, originating address [most look like generated addresses]). 
All of the original messages appear to be SPAM.  I've verified that my 
server isn't relaying (telnet to the SMTP port, try to send mail to an 
outside domain from an outside domain, and that doesn't work [doesn't 
relay]).  I've enclosed a copy of one of the messages below.  Anyone got 
any ideas on 1) what could be causing this, or 2) what I may be able to 
do to stop it?

--== Message ==--

mailto:mallory at gocubs.org
Hi. This is the qmail-send program at <my server>.
I tried to deliver a bounce message to this address, but the bounce bounced!

<mallory at gocubs.org>:
216.200.145.51 does not like recipient.
Remote host said: 554 Recipient Rejected: Not accepting mail for this 
account : Account Inactive
Giving up on 216.200.145.51.

--- Below this line is the original bounce.

Return-Path: <>
Received: (qmail 1767 invoked for bounce); 15 Jan 2005 21:02:33 -0000
Date: 15 Jan 2005 21:02:33 -0000
From: MAILER-DAEMON@<my server>
To: mallory at gocubs.org
Subject: failure notice

Hi. This is the qmail-send program at <my server>.
I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses.
This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.

<marino at swsltd.com>:
This address no longer accepts mail.

<ledbetter at swsltd.com>:
This address no longer accepts mail.

<robison at swsltd.com>:
This address no longer accepts mail.

<lacey at swsltd.com>:
This address no longer accepts mail.

<elmore at swsltd.com>:
This address no longer accepts mail.

<moyet at swsltd.com>:
This address no longer accepts mail.

<davila at swsltd.com>:
This address no longer accepts mail.

<godwin at swsltd.com>:
This address no longer accepts mail.

<winn at swsltd.com>:
This address no longer accepts mail.

--- Below this line is a copy of the message.

Return-Path: <mallory at gocubs.org>
Received: (qmail 1475 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2005 21:02:08 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO gocubs.org) (222.65.83.32)
   by <my server> with SMTP; 15 Jan 2005 21:02:02 -0000
Message-ID: <95360181.37DC017 at gocubs.org>
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 07:17:28 +1000
From: "clark needam" <mallory at gocubs.org>
User-Agent: Rodriquezmail v9.8
X-Accept-Language: en-us
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "geraldo tijerina" <marino at swsltd.com>
Subject:   just come and see the valuable tips and detailed information 
clare
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

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express mailing supply. get the fr!eebie for your prescriipttion
bargains on meds for sexual health, Paain relief, an at xiety control,
anti-Depresion, obesity and more others.
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Assure yourself this I'll doI will be true



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.12 - Release Date: 1/14/2005


From drifter at oppositelock.org  Sat Jan 15 17:24:35 2005
From: drifter at oppositelock.org (Sean Kilpatrick)
Date: Sat Jan 15 17:24:35 2005
Subject: [ale] Weirdness
Message-ID: <200501151720.11294.drifter@oppositelock.org>

I get an e-mail.  It has a link to a web page.
Like any good email program KMail highlights the
link.  I click on it and . . . eventually . . .
the page loads into Mozilla. But the address is so
corrupted that all links internal to that web page
do not work -- can not work.

An example:

A link:  http://www.infosma.com/newexciting

What shows up in the Mozilla address bar:

file:///var/tmp/kdecache-kilpatms/krun/15314.0.newexciting

But the correct web page is being displayed.
I click on a link on that web page:

actual link:  www/infosma.com/newexciting/5-1-17.htm

And I get this drivel from Mozilla:

"The file /var/tmp/kdecache-kilpatms/krun/5-1/17.htm cannot be
found. Please check the location and try again.."

Can someone explain what is going on here?  Even better, can
someone suggest how I might fix this mess?

TIA

Sean
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From James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com  Sat Jan 15 17:35:59 2005
From: James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com (James Taylor)
Date: Sat Jan 15 17:35:59 2005
Subject: [ale] SUSE 9.2
Message-ID: <s1e95386.001@inet.eastcobbgroup.com>

I've upgraded a number of times, and it usually is not a problem.
The biggest factors I've run into are:

It takes a *lot* longer to upgrade than to reinstall.

If I have a lot of non-original software installed, SuSE may want to
remove it.  So I have to reinstall, usually with a newer version
anyway...

The upgrade has always worked.

-jt

James Taylor
The East Cobb Group, Inc.
james.taylor at eastcobbgroup.com
678-697-9420

>>> james at sumners.ath.cx 01/15/05 11:07 AM >>>
I seriously hope that is not the established method for upgrading SuSE
without
problems. I want to upgrade my grandfather's installation and I
certainly won't
do all that.

Does anyone else have any experiences with updating SuSE?

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 21:58:44 -0500
Geoffrey <esoteric at 3times25.net> wrote:

> I generally do a re-install, although I've done a couple of upgrades 
> with 9.2 that were quite successful.
> 
> Since I generally need everything working on my boxen, I historically 
> keep a dual boot environment so that I can build a new install while 
> retaining my previous instance.  Once I get the new install working 
> completely, I move to it full time.

-- 
James Sumners
http://ug.dyndns.org/~jsumners/

"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological
personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to
the
corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a
condition to which they are quickly addicted."

Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto)
CH:D 59
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale




From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 15 17:54:12 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sat Jan 15 17:54:12 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux boot screen
In-Reply-To: <20050115110516.6a11d1eb@sumners.ath.cx>
References: <1105803919.6611.5.camel@blue>
	<20050115110516.6a11d1eb@sumners.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <1105829378.5196.9.camel@blue>

On Sat, 2005-01-15 at 11:05 -0500, James Sumners wrote:
> You are looking for bootsplash (http://www.bootsplash.org/). I believe once
> Sarge is out the Debian project is going to work on implementing it for Debian.
> As of right now you have to do it by hand. I found a tutorial for Debian at --
> http://www.desktop-linux.net/bootsplash.htm

;-) Bootsplash was what my "old/out-dated" comment referred to.  Yes, I
do realize that they have some 2.6.10 stuff, but the project itself
seems a bit on the side of the road.  Perhaps I'll just wait a while.

-Jim P.





From james at sumners.ath.cx  Sat Jan 15 18:04:42 2005
From: james at sumners.ath.cx (James Sumners)
Date: Sat Jan 15 18:04:42 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux boot screen
In-Reply-To: <1105829378.5196.9.camel@blue>
References: <1105803919.6611.5.camel@blue>
	<20050115110516.6a11d1eb@sumners.ath.cx>
	<1105829378.5196.9.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <20050115180031.29571a44@sumners.ath.cx>

It is the only project I am aware of. I installed it today on my machine (Debian
with kernel 2.6.7) whilst upgrading hard drives. It works well and was very easy
to set up. The site linked in that tutorial -- http://www.bootsplash.de/ -- has
much more up-to-date information that bootsplash.org.

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 17:49:38 -0500
Jim Popovitch <jimpop at yahoo.com> wrote:

> ;-) Bootsplash was what my "old/out-dated" comment referred to.  Yes, I
> do realize that they have some 2.6.10 stuff, but the project itself
> seems a bit on the side of the road.  Perhaps I'll just wait a while.

-- 
James Sumners
http://ug.dyndns.org/~jsumners/

"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological
personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the
corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a
condition to which they are quickly addicted."

Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto)
CH:D 59


From audilover at speedfactory.net  Sat Jan 15 19:07:32 2005
From: audilover at speedfactory.net (Raylynn Knight)
Date: Sat Jan 15 19:07:32 2005
Subject: [ale] Debian sound part II
In-Reply-To: <200501151032.46527.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <200501132154.28611.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<200501142204.39955.jloden@toughguy.net> <41E93679.20605@3times25.net>
	<200501151032.46527.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <1105833785.2482.4.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>

On Sat, 2005-01-15 at 10:32 -0500, Jay Loden wrote:
> On Saturday 15 January 2005 10:27, Geoffrey wrote:
> 
> > Since 7 is usually set aside for the parallel port, try disabling the
> > parallel port in your bios to see if things change.  If they do, but you
> > need the parallel port, then you'll need to shuffle some irqs around me
> > thinks.
> 
> Parallel port is already disabled :(  
> 
> The interrupts listed in /proc/interrupts also appear to change.
> As of right now, it says: 
> 
>   0:   49594130          XT-PIC  timer
>   1:     127016          XT-PIC  i8042
>   2:          0          XT-PIC  cascade
>   6:     923698          XT-PIC  yenta, orinoco_cs
>   8:          4          XT-PIC  rtc
>   9:       7579          XT-PIC  acpi
>  10:          5          XT-PIC  ohci_hcd, yenta
>  12:     806177          XT-PIC  i8042
>  14:      83435          XT-PIC  ide0
>  15:        598          XT-PIC  ide1
> NMI:          0
> ERR:         41
> 
The second column here is a count of the number of interrupts.  So for
instance ide1 is getting many more interrupts than ide0.  The NMI is for
non-maskable interrupts (used for debugging) and ERR is interrupt errors
of which you have had 41.  This sometimes occurs when an interrupt
occurs, but the OS can't identify the device that generated the
interrupt.

> instead.  I've noticed that despite running alsaconf, et al, The install still 
> thinks I have no sound cards.  I'm getting really low on ideas, and I'm 
> tempted to do a reinstall right now, except that I'm really happy with the 
> state of everything else.  I've spent two days on this in IRC and google 
> trying to get help and so far it's been a dry hole. 
> 
Are you sure the card is firmly inserted in the slot?  I've seen
symptoms similar to this when a card has slipped up so as not to be
making complete contact with the slot.




From jloden at toughguy.net  Sun Jan 16 01:42:13 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Sun Jan 16 01:42:13 2005
Subject: [ale] Debian sound part II
In-Reply-To: <1105833785.2482.4.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
References: <200501132154.28611.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<200501151032.46527.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<1105833785.2482.4.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
Message-ID: <200501160109.07774.jloden@toughguy.net>

Wow, thanks for the informative post!  It's a laptop, so It's not easy to 
check if the card is in the slot, but it's working under Windows.  I'm 
thinking it might be some kind of kernel problem.  I *may* get annoyed enough 
to just wipe the drive and install Sarge with 2.6.10 

-Jay

On Saturday 15 January 2005 7:03, Raylynn Knight wrote:
> On Sat, 2005-01-15 at 10:32 -0500, Jay Loden wrote:
> > On Saturday 15 January 2005 10:27, Geoffrey wrote:
> > > Since 7 is usually set aside for the parallel port, try disabling the
> > > parallel port in your bios to see if things change.  If they do, but
> > > you need the parallel port, then you'll need to shuffle some irqs
> > > around me thinks.
> >
> > Parallel port is already disabled :(
> >
> > The interrupts listed in /proc/interrupts also appear to change.
> > As of right now, it says:
> >
> >   0:   49594130          XT-PIC  timer
> >   1:     127016          XT-PIC  i8042
> >   2:          0          XT-PIC  cascade
> >   6:     923698          XT-PIC  yenta, orinoco_cs
> >   8:          4          XT-PIC  rtc
> >   9:       7579          XT-PIC  acpi
> >  10:          5          XT-PIC  ohci_hcd, yenta
> >  12:     806177          XT-PIC  i8042
> >  14:      83435          XT-PIC  ide0
> >  15:        598          XT-PIC  ide1
> > NMI:          0
> > ERR:         41
>
> The second column here is a count of the number of interrupts.  So for
> instance ide1 is getting many more interrupts than ide0.  The NMI is for
> non-maskable interrupts (used for debugging) and ERR is interrupt errors
> of which you have had 41.  This sometimes occurs when an interrupt
> occurs, but the OS can't identify the device that generated the
> interrupt.
>
> > instead.  I've noticed that despite running alsaconf, et al, The install
> > still thinks I have no sound cards.  I'm getting really low on ideas, and
> > I'm tempted to do a reinstall right now, except that I'm really happy
> > with the state of everything else.  I've spent two days on this in IRC
> > and google trying to get help and so far it's been a dry hole.
>
> Are you sure the card is firmly inserted in the slot?  I've seen
> symptoms similar to this when a card has slipped up so as not to be
> making complete contact with the slot.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From jloden at toughguy.net  Sun Jan 16 03:24:38 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Sun Jan 16 03:24:38 2005
Subject: [ale] Debian sound part II - FIXED
In-Reply-To: <200501160109.07774.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <200501132154.28611.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<1105833785.2482.4.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
	<200501160109.07774.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <200501160222.31212.jloden@toughguy.net>

Well, I finally booted off of a newly-downloaded live CD, and 
copied /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base, aliases, and modprobe.conf from the live CD 
to the install.  

I also removed /etc/alsa/modutils.d and /etc/alsa/dev.d from my install, 
because they seem to be screwed up remnants of udev (??) 

I started up KDE, and whammo - sound is back. 

Don't know which part of it fixed it, but at least it's working now. 

-Jay

On Sunday 16 January 2005 1:09, Jay Loden wrote:
> Wow, thanks for the informative post!  It's a laptop, so It's not easy to
> check if the card is in the slot, but it's working under Windows.  I'm
> thinking it might be some kind of kernel problem.  I *may* get annoyed
> enough to just wipe the drive and install Sarge with 2.6.10
>
> -Jay


From pmazer at gmail.com  Sun Jan 16 12:52:49 2005
From: pmazer at gmail.com (Parker McGee)
Date: Sun Jan 16 12:52:49 2005
Subject: [ale] Fonts...
In-Reply-To: <200501151242.46129.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
References: <200501140707.59982.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
	<41dc545405011405173cacf0bc@mail.gmail.com>
	<200501151242.46129.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
Message-ID: <41dc545405011609475f8f39f9@mail.gmail.com>

Since you're using Gentoo, you probably emerged too many fonts.  Try this:

cd /usr/portage/media-fonts
emerge -p *

Check when have already been emerged and if you don't want them,
simply emerge -C the package.  Also, corefonts are useful to have,
since they're the default Microsoft fonts which most people/websites
use as default.

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 12:42:46 -0500, David Corbin <dcorbin at machturtle.com> wrote:
> On Friday 14 January 2005 08:17, Parker McGee wrote:
> > I'm not really sure of the answer to this (as I've never tried it),
> > but I am curious: why?
> 
> Well, I have numerous fonts that look like they're bitmaps being scaled up.  I
> really only need three fonts to keep me happy (a proportional serif, a
> proportional sans serif, and a fixed pitch sans serif (a fixed pitch serif
> would be OK, but rarely used)).  Of course, I want them in in many many
> different sizes.
> 
> Instead, I find hundreds of fonts that clutter my selections, and I can't get
> the system to show me what I want.
> 
> David
> 


-- 
Parker McGee


From ringo at margaritasrus.com  Sun Jan 16 13:04:07 2005
From: ringo at margaritasrus.com (ringo)
Date: Sun Jan 16 13:04:07 2005
Subject: [ale] Help with packages
In-Reply-To: <41dc545405011609475f8f39f9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <029b01c4fbf5$237d9ad0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>

I'm running Suse 9.2 pro on a laptop. It's a brand new install.

When I try to compile a program I get the following errors:
stage.h:62:63: glib.h: No such file or directory
rtk.h:32:21: gtk/gtk.h: No such file or directory

I was told this means that I don't have the GTK develop stuff installed.

I went to KPackage and did a search for gtk and it finds things like gtk
and python-gtk but if I "Mark" any of them then the only button that
lights up is "uninstall", so I'm assuming that means that they are
already installed. What am I missing here?
Thanks
Ringo




From bluejay at speedfactory.net  Sun Jan 16 13:41:48 2005
From: bluejay at speedfactory.net (Jim Seymour)
Date: Sun Jan 16 13:41:48 2005
Subject: [ale] Routing slow on certain sites
Message-ID: <20050116183720.GA5163@speedfactory.net>

Hi All,

I am using my Debian Sarge box as a router for a WinXP box. What would
cause the WinXP box to not be able to load certain sites (aol.com, etc.)
when I can hop right over to the Debian box and access without problem.
Most of the sites seem to pose no problem for the Win box. I do not see
any access denied messages from the firewall and pinging them from the
Win box works fine. I have tried DNS manually as well as pulling it
from the Debian box. Any ideas appreciated. This is on a static dsl
connection if that helps any.

Thanks,

Jim Seymour


From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Sun Jan 16 13:56:26 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Sun Jan 16 13:56:26 2005
Subject: [ale] Help with packages
In-Reply-To: <029b01c4fbf5$237d9ad0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
References: <029b01c4fbf5$237d9ad0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
Message-ID: <1105901531.3975.21.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>

You need a bunch of *-devel packages. If you have the rmb dbinstalled,
you can find what packages has what file with rpm -q --what-provides
filefoo

On Sun, 2005-01-16 at 12:59, ringo wrote:
> I'm running Suse 9.2 pro on a laptop. It's a brand new install.
> 
> When I try to compile a program I get the following errors:
> stage.h:62:63: glib.h: No such file or directory
> rtk.h:32:21: gtk/gtk.h: No such file or directory
> 
> I was told this means that I don't have the GTK develop stuff installed.
> 
> I went to KPackage and did a search for gtk and it finds things like gtk
> and python-gtk but if I "Mark" any of them then the only button that
> lights up is "uninstall", so I'm assuming that means that they are
> already installed. What am I missing here?
> Thanks
> Ringo
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> !DSPAM:41eaabbc102788744112271!
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Sun Jan 16 13:57:46 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Sun Jan 16 13:57:46 2005
Subject: [ale] Routing slow on certain sites
In-Reply-To: <20050116183720.GA5163@speedfactory.net>
References: <20050116183720.GA5163@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <1105901615.3975.23.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>

IE security settings may be blocking AOL due their use of Active-X.

On Sun, 2005-01-16 at 13:37, Jim Seymour wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I am using my Debian Sarge box as a router for a WinXP box. What would
> cause the WinXP box to not be able to load certain sites (aol.com, etc.)
> when I can hop right over to the Debian box and access without problem.
> Most of the sites seem to pose no problem for the Win box. I do not see
> any access denied messages from the firewall and pinging them from the
> Win box works fine. I have tried DNS manually as well as pulling it
> from the Debian box. Any ideas appreciated. This is on a static dsl
> connection if that helps any.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jim Seymour
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> !DSPAM:41eab49a183122820515559!
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
-------------- next part --------------
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From dcorbin at machturtle.com  Sun Jan 16 14:06:56 2005
From: dcorbin at machturtle.com (David Corbin)
Date: Sun Jan 16 14:06:56 2005
Subject: [ale] UPS monitoring alternatives
Message-ID: <200501161403.21158.dcorbin@machturtle.com>

I've been using UPSMon to monitor my UPS, and shutdown systems when 
appropriate.  The primary system that I'm using is being retired, so I've got 
to install a solution on the replacement.  Frankly, UPSMon has all the 
features I need, but it's really confusing to configure correctly.  

Anybody got a better recommendation for an open source equivalent?


From ringo at margaritasrus.com  Sun Jan 16 14:12:55 2005
From: ringo at margaritasrus.com (ringo)
Date: Sun Jan 16 14:12:55 2005
Subject: [ale] Help with packages
In-Reply-To: <1105901531.3975.21.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <02b501c4fbfe$c8b274e0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>

I figured out that YaST will install the packages.
I have the kernel source and all the GTK stuff installed now so those
errors are gone. However when I try to compile the driver for me
usb-ethernet adapter I get the following errors.
If I do 
rpm -qa | grep kernel-source
 then it returns
kernel-source-2.6.8-24

It's missing stuff like Malloc, so if the kernel source is installed
what else am I missing?
Ringo


[ringo at localhost linux]$ gcc -DMODULE -D__KERNEL__ -c rtl8150.c
-I/usr/src/linux/include/
rtl8150.c:52:26: linux/malloc.h: No such file or directory
In file included from /usr/src/linux/include/linux/irq.h:20,
                 from /usr/src/linux/include/asm/hardirq.h:6,
                 from /usr/src/linux/include/linux/interrupt.h:11,
                 from /usr/src/linux/include/linux/netdevice.h:501,
                 from rtl8150.c:55:
/usr/src/linux/include/asm/irq.h:16:25: irq_vectors.h: No such file or
directory
In file included from /usr/src/linux/include/asm/hardirq.h:6,
                 from /usr/src/linux/include/linux/interrupt.h:11,
                 from /usr/src/linux/include/linux/netdevice.h:501,
                 from rtl8150.c:55:
/usr/src/linux/include/linux/irq.h:70: error: `NR_IRQS' undeclared here
(not in a function)
In file included from /usr/src/linux/include/linux/irq.h:72,
                 from /usr/src/linux/include/asm/hardirq.h:6,
                 from /usr/src/linux/include/linux/interrupt.h:11,
                 from /usr/src/linux/include/linux/netdevice.h:501,
                 from rtl8150.c:55:
/usr/src/linux/include/asm/hw_irq.h:28: error: `NR_IRQ_VECTORS'
undeclared here (not in a function)
/usr/src/linux/include/asm/hw_irq.h:31: error: `NR_IRQS' undeclared here
(not in a function)
rtl8150.c:114:1: warning: "ALIGN" redefined
In file included from /usr/src/linux/include/asm/system.h:5,
                 from /usr/src/linux/include/asm/processor.h:18,
                 from /usr/src/linux/include/asm/thread_info.h:13,
                 from /usr/src/linux/include/linux/thread_info.h:21,
                 from /usr/src/linux/include/linux/spinlock.h:12,
                 from /usr/src/linux/include/linux/capability.h:45,
                 from /usr/src/linux/include/linux/sched.h:7,
                 from /usr/src/linux/include/linux/module.h:10,
                 from rtl8150.c:50:
/usr/src/linux/include/linux/kernel.h:28:1: warning: this is the
location of the previous definition
rtl8150.c:320: error: parse error before "devrequest"
rtl8150.c:320: warning: no semicolon at end of struct or union
rtl8150.c:334: error: parse error before '}' token
rtl8150.c:334: warning: data definition has no type or storage class
rtl8150.c:364: error: parse error before '*' token
rtl8150.c: In function `set_registers_callback':
rtl8150.c:366: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
rtl8150.c:366: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
rtl8150.c:366: error: for each function it appears in.)
rtl8150.c:366: error: `urb' undeclared (first use in this function)
rtl8150.c:374: error: `USB_ST_NOERROR' undeclared (first use in this
function)
rtl8150.c:376: error: `USB_ST_URB_PENDING' undeclared (first use in this
function)
rtl8150.c:379: error: `USB_ST_URB_KILLED' undeclared (first use in this
function)
rtl8150.c:383: error: called object is not a function
rtl8150.c:383: error: parse error before string constant
rtl8150.c: At top level:
rtl8150.c:398: error: parse error before '*' token
rtl8150.c: In function `get_registers_callback':
rtl8150.c:400: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
rtl8150.c:400: error: `urb' undeclared (first use in this function)
rtl8150.c:408: error: `USB_ST_NOERROR' undeclared (first use in this
function)
rtl8150.c:410: error: `USB_ST_URB_PENDING' undeclared (first use in this
function)
rtl8150.c:413: error: `USB_ST_URB_KILLED' undeclared (first use in this
function)
rtl8150.c:417: error: called object is not a function
rtl8150.c:417: error: parse error before string constant
rtl8150.c: At top level:
rtl8150.c:432: error: parse error before '*' token
rtl8150.c: In function `get_registers':
rtl8150.c:438: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
rtl8150.c:440: error: `indx' undeclared (first use in this function)
rtl8150.c:443: error: `size' undeclared (first use in this function)
rtl8150.c:448: error: `data' undeclared (first use in this function)
rtl8150.c:450: error: too few arguments to function `usb_submit_urb'
rtl8150.c:452: error: called object is not a function
rtl8150.c:452: error: parse error before string constant
rtl8150.c: At top level:
rtl8150.c:464: error: parse error before '*' token
rtl8150.c: In function `set_registers':
rtl8150.c:475: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
rtl8150.c:477: error: `indx' undeclared (first use in this function)
rtl8150.c:479: error: `size' undeclared (first use in this function)
rtl8150.c:484: error: `data' undeclared (first use in this function)
rtl8150.c:486: error: too few arguments to function `usb_submit_urb'
rtl8150.c:488: error: called object is not a function
rtl8150.c:488: error: parse error before string constant
rtl8150.c: At top level:
rtl8150.c:502: error: parse error before '*' token
rtl8150.c:530: error: parse error before '*' token
rtl8150.c:562: error: parse error before '*' token
rtl8150.c: In function `read_eprom_word':
rtl8150.c:568: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
rtl8150.c:571: error: `index' undeclared (first use in this function)
rtl8150.c:571: error: `retdata' undeclared (first use in this function)
rtl8150.c: At top level:
rtl8150.c:581: error: parse error before '*' token
rtl8150.c: In function `read_eprom_byte':
rtl8150.c:587: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
rtl8150.c:590: error: `index' undeclared (first use in this function)
rtl8150.c:590: error: `retdata' undeclared (first use in this function)
rtl8150.c: At top level:
rtl8150.c:650: error: parse error before '*' token
rtl8150.c: In function `get_node_id':
rtl8150.c:657: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
rtl8150.c:660: error: `id' undeclared (first use in this function)
rtl8150.c: At top level:
rtl8150.c:668: error: parse error before '*' token
rtl8150.c: In function `set_ethernet_addr':
rtl8150.c:673: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
rtl8150.c: At top level:
rtl8150.c:681: error: parse error before '*' token
rtl8150.c: In function `reset_mac':
rtl8150.c:691: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
rtl8150.c: In function `enable_net_traffic':
rtl8150.c:728: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
rtl8150.c: In function `read_bulk_callback':
rtl8150.c:806: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
rtl8150.c:830: error: `USB_ST_NOERROR' undeclared (first use in this
function)
rtl8150.c:832: error: `USB_ST_NORESPONSE' undeclared (first use in this
function)
rtl8150.c:872: error: too few arguments to function `usb_submit_urb'
rtl8150.c:875: error: called object is not a function
rtl8150.c:875: error: parse error before string constant
rtl8150.c: In function `write_bulk_callback':
rtl8150.c:885: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
rtl8150.c: In function `intr_callback':
rtl8150.c:907: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
rtl8150.c:930: error: `USB_ST_NOERROR' undeclared (first use in this
function)
rtl8150.c:932: error: `USB_ST_URB_KILLED' undeclared (first use in this
function)
rtl8150.c: In function `rtl8150_tx_timeout':
rtl8150.c:944: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
rtl8150.c: In function `rtl8150_start_xmit':
rtl8150.c:964: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
rtl8150.c:989: error: `USB_ASYNC_UNLINK' undeclared (first use in this
function)
rtl8150.c:990: error: too few arguments to function `usb_submit_urb'
rtl8150.c: In function `rtl8150_netdev_stats':
rtl8150.c:1014: error: parse error before ')' token
rtl8150.c: At top level:
rtl8150.c:1020: error: parse error before '*' token
rtl8150.c: In function `disable_net_traffic':
rtl8150.c:1025: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
rtl8150.c: At top level:
rtl8150.c:1031: error: parse error before '*' token
rtl8150.c: In function `get_interrupt_interval':
rtl8150.c:1037: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
rtl8150.c: In function `rtl8150_open':
rtl8150.c:1046: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
rtl8150.c:1046: error: parse error before ')' token
rtl8150.c:1051: warning: `MOD_INC_USE_COUNT' is deprecated (declared at
/usr/src/linux/include/linux/module.h:502)
rtl8150.c:1058: warning: `MOD_DEC_USE_COUNT' is deprecated (declared at
/usr/src/linux/include/linux/module.h:514)
rtl8150.c:1068: error: too few arguments to function `usb_submit_urb'
rtl8150.c:1071: error: called object is not a function
rtl8150.c:1071: error: parse error before string constant
rtl8150.c: In function `rtl8150_close':
rtl8150.c:1099: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
rtl8150.c:1113: warning: `MOD_DEC_USE_COUNT' is deprecated (declared at
/usr/src/linux/include/linux/module.h:514)
rtl8150.c: In function `rtl8150_ioctl':
rtl8150.c:1124: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
rtl8150.c: In function `rtl8150_set_multicast':
rtl8150.c:1150: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
rtl8150.c: At top level:
rtl8150.c:1228: error: parse error before '*' token
rtl8150.c: In function `rtl8150_probe':
rtl8150.c:1264: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
rtl8150.c:1280: error: structure has no member named
`bConfigurationValue'
rtl8150.c:1282: error: structure has no member named
`bConfigurationValue'
rtl8150.c:1290: error: invalid application of `sizeof' to an incomplete
type
rtl8150.c:1303: error: invalid application of `sizeof' to an incomplete
type
rtl8150.c:1303: error: invalid application of `sizeof' to an incomplete
type
rtl8150.c:1303: error: invalid application of `sizeof' to an incomplete
type
rtl8150.c:1303: error: invalid application of `sizeof' to an incomplete
type
rtl8150.c:1303: error: invalid application of `sizeof' to an incomplete
type
rtl8150.c:1303: error: invalid application of `sizeof' to an incomplete
type
rtl8150.c:1329:40: missing binary operator before token "("
rtl8150.c: In function `rtl8150_disconnect':
rtl8150.c:1379: error: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type
rtl8150.c:1380: error: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type
rtl8150.c: At top level:
rtl8150.c:1390: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type
rtl8150.c:1391: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type
[ringo at localhost linux]$



-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
James P. Kinney III
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 1:52 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] Help with packages

You need a bunch of *-devel packages. If you have the rmb dbinstalled,
you can find what packages has what file with rpm -q --what-provides
filefoo

On Sun, 2005-01-16 at 12:59, ringo wrote:
> I'm running Suse 9.2 pro on a laptop. It's a brand new install.
> 
> When I try to compile a program I get the following errors:
> stage.h:62:63: glib.h: No such file or directory
> rtk.h:32:21: gtk/gtk.h: No such file or directory
> 
> I was told this means that I don't have the GTK develop stuff
installed.
> 
> I went to KPackage and did a search for gtk and it finds things like
gtk
> and python-gtk but if I "Mark" any of them then the only button that
> lights up is "uninstall", so I'm assuming that means that they are
> already installed. What am I missing here?
> Thanks
> Ringo
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> !DSPAM:41eaabbc102788744112271!
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7



From dcorbin at machturtle.com  Sun Jan 16 14:28:56 2005
From: dcorbin at machturtle.com (David Corbin)
Date: Sun Jan 16 14:28:56 2005
Subject: [ale] MRTG data dir?
Message-ID: <200501161425.18580.dcorbin@machturtle.com>

I have Debian system running MRTG.  Any ideas where MRTG writes its data?  I 
know where it writes the .png and .html files to but I assume it has an 
rrd-style database somewhere...


From jkf at wolfnet.org  Sun Jan 16 17:22:04 2005
From: jkf at wolfnet.org (Jason Fritcher)
Date: Sun Jan 16 17:22:04 2005
Subject: [ale] MRTG data dir?
In-Reply-To: <200501161425.18580.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
References: <200501161425.18580.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
Message-ID: <41EAE808.2040307@wolfnet.org>

David Corbin wrote:
> I have Debian system running MRTG.  Any ideas where MRTG writes its data?  I
> know where it writes the .png and .html files to but I assume it has an
> rrd-style database somewhere...

Every installation of mrtg I've done writes the db in the same directory as
the graphics.

--
Jason Fritcher
jkf at wolfnet.org
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From pmazer at gmail.com  Sun Jan 16 18:09:26 2005
From: pmazer at gmail.com (Parker McGee)
Date: Sun Jan 16 18:09:26 2005
Subject: [ale] Weirdness
In-Reply-To: <200501151720.11294.drifter@oppositelock.org>
References: <200501151720.11294.drifter@oppositelock.org>
Message-ID: <41dc545405011615055f94c8c7@mail.gmail.com>

It sounds like the webpage is getting downloaded to your harddrive and
then displayed via Mozilla.  I don't use Kmail, so I don't know how to
fix it, but someone else should be able to help you with that.


On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 17:20:04 -0500, Sean Kilpatrick
<drifter at oppositelock.org> wrote:
> I get an e-mail.  It has a link to a web page.
> Like any good email program KMail highlights the
> link.  I click on it and . . . eventually . . .
> the page loads into Mozilla. But the address is so
> corrupted that all links internal to that web page
> do not work -- can not work.
> 
> An example:
> 
> A link:  http://www.infosma.com/newexciting
> 
> What shows up in the Mozilla address bar:
> 
> file:///var/tmp/kdecache-kilpatms/krun/15314.0.newexciting
> 
> But the correct web page is being displayed.
> I click on a link on that web page:
> 
> actual link:  www/infosma.com/newexciting/5-1-17.htm
> 
> And I get this drivel from Mozilla:
> 
> "The file /var/tmp/kdecache-kilpatms/krun/5-1/17.htm cannot be
> found. Please check the location and try again.."
> 
> Can someone explain what is going on here?  Even better, can
> someone suggest how I might fix this mess?
> 
> TIA
> 
> Sean
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Parker McGee


From allanneal at bellsouth.net  Sun Jan 16 18:37:17 2005
From: allanneal at bellsouth.net (Allan Neal)
Date: Sun Jan 16 18:37:17 2005
Subject: [ale] UPS monitoring alternatives
In-Reply-To: <200501161403.21158.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
References: <200501161403.21158.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
Message-ID: <20050116233247.GC3690@Tashina.neal>

if it is an APC UPS there are some APC specific monitoring packages.  I use
apcupsd.

Allan

On Sun, Jan 16, 2005 at 02:03:21PM -0500, David Corbin wrote:
> I've been using UPSMon to monitor my UPS, and shutdown systems when 
> appropriate.  The primary system that I'm using is being retired, so I've got 
> to install a solution on the replacement.  Frankly, UPSMon has all the 
> features I need, but it's really confusing to configure correctly.  
> 
> Anybody got a better recommendation for an open source equivalent?
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

-- 
 __^__                                          __^__
( ___ )----------------------------------------( ___ )
 | / | "Engineers aren't boring people,         | \ |
 | / | we just get excited about boring things" | \ |
 |___|                 --Anon                   |___|
(_____)----------------------------------------(_____)
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From dcorbin at machturtle.com  Sun Jan 16 19:23:56 2005
From: dcorbin at machturtle.com (David Corbin)
Date: Sun Jan 16 19:23:56 2005
Subject: [ale] UPS monitoring alternatives
In-Reply-To: <20050116233247.GC3690@Tashina.neal>
References: <200501161403.21158.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
	<20050116233247.GC3690@Tashina.neal>
Message-ID: <200501161918.59011.dcorbin@machturtle.com>

On Sunday 16 January 2005 06:32 pm, Allan Neal wrote:
> if it is an APC UPS there are some APC specific monitoring packages.  I use
> apcupsd.

It's not.  I can't remember what brand, but I think it's a "second tier" brand 
(because to me APC *is* the first tier).  Thanks anyway.


From ringo at margaritasrus.com  Sun Jan 16 20:08:03 2005
From: ringo at margaritasrus.com (ringo)
Date: Sun Jan 16 20:08:03 2005
Subject: [ale] permissions
In-Reply-To: <200501161918.59011.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
Message-ID: <030f01c4fc30$69b9a3a0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>

I'm using SUSE 9.2, I just installed it and I'm the only user.
When compiling a program I get an error "cannot create file
'/l/lib/libtrk.a': Permission denied.
When I browse to the folder an dlook at properties it says only the
"owner" can change the permissions. Why am I not the owner and how do I
fix it?
Thanks
Ringo




From ringo at margaritasrus.com  Sun Jan 16 20:12:34 2005
From: ringo at margaritasrus.com (ringo)
Date: Sun Jan 16 20:12:34 2005
Subject: [ale] permissions
In-Reply-To: <030f01c4fc30$69b9a3a0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
Message-ID: <031301c4fc31$0ad82130$bb00a8c0@Ringo>

Should Read:
I'm using SUSE 9.2, I just installed it and I'm the only user.
When compiling a program I get an error "cannot create file
'/usr/local/lib/libtrk.a': Permission denied.
When I browse to the folder and look at properties it says only the
"owner" can change the permissions. Why am I not the owner and how do I
fix it?

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
ringo
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 8:04 PM
To: 'Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts'
Subject: [ale] permissions

I'm using SUSE 9.2, I just installed it and I'm the only user.
When compiling a program I get an error "cannot create file
'/l/lib/libtrk.a': Permission denied.
When I browse to the folder an dlook at properties it says only the
"owner" can change the permissions. Why am I not the owner and how do I
fix it?
Thanks
Ringo



_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale




From dbaron13 at atl.bellsouth.net  Sun Jan 16 20:31:10 2005
From: dbaron13 at atl.bellsouth.net (William Wylde Baron Shatturday)
Date: Sun Jan 16 20:31:10 2005
Subject: [ale] permissions
In-Reply-To: <031301c4fc31$0ad82130$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
References: <031301c4fc31$0ad82130$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
Message-ID: <41EB1454.6050707@atl.bellsouth.net>

ringo wrote:

>Should Read:
>I'm using SUSE 9.2, I just installed it and I'm the only user.
>When compiling a program I get an error "cannot create file
>'/usr/local/lib/libtrk.a': Permission denied.
>When I browse to the folder and look at properties it says only the
>"owner" can change the permissions. Why am I not the owner and how do I
>fix it?
>
>  
>

The owner is "root", and that's the way you want it.  You need to "su" 
and type the root password before you "make install"... 






From ringo at margaritasrus.com  Sun Jan 16 20:57:17 2005
From: ringo at margaritasrus.com (ringo)
Date: Sun Jan 16 20:57:17 2005
Subject: [ale] permissions
In-Reply-To: <41EB1454.6050707@atl.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <031801c4fc37$46ce1bd0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>

Thanks, that fixed that problem, now the next one is that It says I'm
missing jpeglib.h and Jerror.h. Is this another package I failed to
install and if it is how do I know what package it is contained in? I
tried searching in the package stuff with Yast but didn't find anything.
Thanks,
Ringo


-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
William Wylde Baron Shatturday
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 8:27 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] permissions

ringo wrote:

>Should Read:
>I'm using SUSE 9.2, I just installed it and I'm the only user.
>When compiling a program I get an error "cannot create file
>'/usr/local/lib/libtrk.a': Permission denied.
>When I browse to the folder and look at properties it says only the
>"owner" can change the permissions. Why am I not the owner and how do I
>fix it?
>
>  
>

The owner is "root", and that's the way you want it.  You need to "su" 
and type the root password before you "make install"... 





_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale




From esoteric at 3times25.net  Sun Jan 16 21:33:13 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Sun Jan 16 21:33:13 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux boot screen
In-Reply-To: <1105803919.6611.5.camel@blue>
References: <1105803919.6611.5.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <41EB22F4.20204@3times25.net>

Jim Popovitch wrote:
> I've been looking into cleaning up the boot/start-up on my laptop,
> specifically, I would like to not display all the debug info but rather
> a linux splash screen.  Google yields lots about old/out-dated projects,
> but nothing too current.  Does anyone have any good experience with
> this, or perhaps some updated details. 

Both Mandrake and Suse do this.  You might check out the boot process 
there.  There is the following in my grub menu:

gfxmenu (hd0,5)/boot/message

Turns out, message is actually a cpio archive.  One of the items 
included there is a background.pcx which is the boot image displayed by 
Suse on boot.

The other files in the cpio are as follows:

16x16.font:      data
background.pcx:  PCX ver. 3.0 image data bounding box [0, 0] - [639, 
479], 8-bit colour, 72 x 72 dpi, RLE compressed
help.en:         data
init:            data
lang:            ASCII text
languages:       ASCII text
texts.en:        data
translations.en: ASCII text

Hope that helps.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Sun Jan 16 21:37:48 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Sun Jan 16 21:37:48 2005
Subject: [ale] SUSE 9.2
In-Reply-To: <20050115110742.1bd7c202@sumners.ath.cx>
References: <200501141717.14214.rsowen@speedfactory.net>	<41E886E4.10207@3times25.net>
	<20050115110742.1bd7c202@sumners.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <41EB2400.3040601@3times25.net>

James Sumners wrote:
> I seriously hope that is not the established method for upgrading
> SuSE without problems. I want to upgrade my grandfather's
> installation and I certainly won't do all that.
> 
> Does anyone else have any experiences with updating SuSE?

Understand, it's a level of paranoia on my part.  When I did my last 
upgrade to 9.2 on my main box, I retained the same /home partition and 
everything worked flawlessly.  I did not have to return to my 9.1 version.

I've also upgraded at least two 9.1 boxes and one 9.0 box to Suse 9.2 
with absolutely no problems at all.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From Dow.Hurst at mindspring.com  Sun Jan 16 21:52:20 2005
From: Dow.Hurst at mindspring.com (Dow Hurst)
Date: Sun Jan 16 21:52:20 2005
Subject: [ale] SUSE 9.2 Pro free from Novell
In-Reply-To: <200501151505.00748.griffisb@bellsouth.net>
References: <1105758813.69ce73chabieb@myrealbox.com>
	<200501151505.00748.griffisb@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <41EB276C.2080005@mindspring.com>

Definitely setup your wife with OOo Draw, OOo Impress, and Gimp.  Check 
out Scribus but print out any tutorials on it you can find.  I've used 
all to do DTP type stuff and they all together work very well.  MS 
Publisher is boring and MSWord is too limiting/controlling.  Being able 
to export the final output from OOo as a PDF is really helpful.  You'd 
need Adobe Illustrator to match up with OOo and Gimp, not MS Publisher 
and MSWord.
Dow


BruceG wrote:

>On Friday 14 January 2005 10:13 pm, H. Bieber wrote:
>  
>
>>I just received this email from Novell....
>>
>>
>>This free offer of SUSE LINUX Professional 9.2 provides a perfect starting
>>point for many individuals to use 
>>    
>>
>
>That's good news! I purchased boxed sets of 8.2 Personal, 9.0 Pro and 9.1 Pro. 
>I think the manuals are worth the price of admission. I'd definately consider 
>a free version of 9.2 Pro if the manuals aren't all that different.
>
>As a side note - I think it's time to start looking for general books on 
>OpenOffice, The Gimp and Scribus. My wife does a bulletin for the church in 
>Word Perfect, and is thinking of moving towards MS Word and MS Publisher - it 
>might be cooler to know a little more about the alternatives. 
>
>I know very little about OOo and The Gimp - and even less about Scribus. It's 
>time to learn a bit more about writing Newsletters and bulletins using 
>opensource tools. Hmmm, maybe I'll start with a newsletter for our Cub Scout 
>Pack.
>
>BruceG
>_______________________________________________
>Ale mailing list
>Ale at ale.org
>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
>  
>


From Dow.Hurst at mindspring.com  Sun Jan 16 21:59:42 2005
From: Dow.Hurst at mindspring.com (Dow Hurst)
Date: Sun Jan 16 21:59:42 2005
Subject: [ale] Help with packages
In-Reply-To: <02b501c4fbfe$c8b274e0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
References: <02b501c4fbfe$c8b274e0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
Message-ID: <41EB2906.7080002@mindspring.com>

Looks like your having bug problems in the code, not missing packages.  
You may have in the usb-ethernet adapter source a README that tells what 
the source code depends on for a clean compile.  You may have to 
download a differnet kernel and point the compile to that instead of it 
pointing to what your system is running.  I'm just guessing here, maybe 
someone else can help you more directly.  Best wishes,
Dow


ringo wrote:

>I figured out that YaST will install the packages.
>I have the kernel source and all the GTK stuff installed now so those
>errors are gone. However when I try to compile the driver for me
>usb-ethernet adapter I get the following errors.
>If I do 
>rpm -qa | grep kernel-source
> then it returns
>kernel-source-2.6.8-24
>
>It's missing stuff like Malloc, so if the kernel source is installed
>what else am I missing?
>Ringo
>
>
>[ringo at localhost linux]$ gcc -DMODULE -D__KERNEL__ -c rtl8150.c
>-I/usr/src/linux/include/
>rtl8150.c:52:26: linux/malloc.h: No such file or directory
>In file included from /usr/src/linux/include/linux/irq.h:20,
>                 from /usr/src/linux/include/asm/hardirq.h:6,
>                 from /usr/src/linux/include/linux/interrupt.h:11,
>                 from /usr/src/linux/include/linux/netdevice.h:501,
>                 from rtl8150.c:55:
>/usr/src/linux/include/asm/irq.h:16:25: irq_vectors.h: No such file or
>directory
>In file included from /usr/src/linux/include/asm/hardirq.h:6,
>                 from /usr/src/linux/include/linux/interrupt.h:11,
>                 from /usr/src/linux/include/linux/netdevice.h:501,
>                 from rtl8150.c:55:
>/usr/src/linux/include/linux/irq.h:70: error: `NR_IRQS' undeclared here
>(not in a function)
>In file included from /usr/src/linux/include/linux/irq.h:72,
>                 from /usr/src/linux/include/asm/hardirq.h:6,
>                 from /usr/src/linux/include/linux/interrupt.h:11,
>                 from /usr/src/linux/include/linux/netdevice.h:501,
>                 from rtl8150.c:55:
>/usr/src/linux/include/asm/hw_irq.h:28: error: `NR_IRQ_VECTORS'
>undeclared here (not in a function)
>/usr/src/linux/include/asm/hw_irq.h:31: error: `NR_IRQS' undeclared here
>(not in a function)
>rtl8150.c:114:1: warning: "ALIGN" redefined
>In file included from /usr/src/linux/include/asm/system.h:5,
>                 from /usr/src/linux/include/asm/processor.h:18,
>                 from /usr/src/linux/include/asm/thread_info.h:13,
>                 from /usr/src/linux/include/linux/thread_info.h:21,
>                 from /usr/src/linux/include/linux/spinlock.h:12,
>                 from /usr/src/linux/include/linux/capability.h:45,
>                 from /usr/src/linux/include/linux/sched.h:7,
>                 from /usr/src/linux/include/linux/module.h:10,
>                 from rtl8150.c:50:
>/usr/src/linux/include/linux/kernel.h:28:1: warning: this is the
>location of the previous definition
>rtl8150.c:320: error: parse error before "devrequest"
>rtl8150.c:320: warning: no semicolon at end of struct or union
>rtl8150.c:334: error: parse error before '}' token
>rtl8150.c:334: warning: data definition has no type or storage class
>rtl8150.c:364: error: parse error before '*' token
>rtl8150.c: In function `set_registers_callback':
>rtl8150.c:366: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
>rtl8150.c:366: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
>rtl8150.c:366: error: for each function it appears in.)
>rtl8150.c:366: error: `urb' undeclared (first use in this function)
>rtl8150.c:374: error: `USB_ST_NOERROR' undeclared (first use in this
>function)
>rtl8150.c:376: error: `USB_ST_URB_PENDING' undeclared (first use in this
>function)
>rtl8150.c:379: error: `USB_ST_URB_KILLED' undeclared (first use in this
>function)
>rtl8150.c:383: error: called object is not a function
>rtl8150.c:383: error: parse error before string constant
>rtl8150.c: At top level:
>rtl8150.c:398: error: parse error before '*' token
>rtl8150.c: In function `get_registers_callback':
>rtl8150.c:400: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
>rtl8150.c:400: error: `urb' undeclared (first use in this function)
>rtl8150.c:408: error: `USB_ST_NOERROR' undeclared (first use in this
>function)
>rtl8150.c:410: error: `USB_ST_URB_PENDING' undeclared (first use in this
>function)
>rtl8150.c:413: error: `USB_ST_URB_KILLED' undeclared (first use in this
>function)
>rtl8150.c:417: error: called object is not a function
>rtl8150.c:417: error: parse error before string constant
>rtl8150.c: At top level:
>rtl8150.c:432: error: parse error before '*' token
>rtl8150.c: In function `get_registers':
>rtl8150.c:438: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
>rtl8150.c:440: error: `indx' undeclared (first use in this function)
>rtl8150.c:443: error: `size' undeclared (first use in this function)
>rtl8150.c:448: error: `data' undeclared (first use in this function)
>rtl8150.c:450: error: too few arguments to function `usb_submit_urb'
>rtl8150.c:452: error: called object is not a function
>rtl8150.c:452: error: parse error before string constant
>rtl8150.c: At top level:
>rtl8150.c:464: error: parse error before '*' token
>rtl8150.c: In function `set_registers':
>rtl8150.c:475: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
>rtl8150.c:477: error: `indx' undeclared (first use in this function)
>rtl8150.c:479: error: `size' undeclared (first use in this function)
>rtl8150.c:484: error: `data' undeclared (first use in this function)
>rtl8150.c:486: error: too few arguments to function `usb_submit_urb'
>rtl8150.c:488: error: called object is not a function
>rtl8150.c:488: error: parse error before string constant
>rtl8150.c: At top level:
>rtl8150.c:502: error: parse error before '*' token
>rtl8150.c:530: error: parse error before '*' token
>rtl8150.c:562: error: parse error before '*' token
>rtl8150.c: In function `read_eprom_word':
>rtl8150.c:568: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
>rtl8150.c:571: error: `index' undeclared (first use in this function)
>rtl8150.c:571: error: `retdata' undeclared (first use in this function)
>rtl8150.c: At top level:
>rtl8150.c:581: error: parse error before '*' token
>rtl8150.c: In function `read_eprom_byte':
>rtl8150.c:587: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
>rtl8150.c:590: error: `index' undeclared (first use in this function)
>rtl8150.c:590: error: `retdata' undeclared (first use in this function)
>rtl8150.c: At top level:
>rtl8150.c:650: error: parse error before '*' token
>rtl8150.c: In function `get_node_id':
>rtl8150.c:657: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
>rtl8150.c:660: error: `id' undeclared (first use in this function)
>rtl8150.c: At top level:
>rtl8150.c:668: error: parse error before '*' token
>rtl8150.c: In function `set_ethernet_addr':
>rtl8150.c:673: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
>rtl8150.c: At top level:
>rtl8150.c:681: error: parse error before '*' token
>rtl8150.c: In function `reset_mac':
>rtl8150.c:691: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
>rtl8150.c: In function `enable_net_traffic':
>rtl8150.c:728: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
>rtl8150.c: In function `read_bulk_callback':
>rtl8150.c:806: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
>rtl8150.c:830: error: `USB_ST_NOERROR' undeclared (first use in this
>function)
>rtl8150.c:832: error: `USB_ST_NORESPONSE' undeclared (first use in this
>function)
>rtl8150.c:872: error: too few arguments to function `usb_submit_urb'
>rtl8150.c:875: error: called object is not a function
>rtl8150.c:875: error: parse error before string constant
>rtl8150.c: In function `write_bulk_callback':
>rtl8150.c:885: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
>rtl8150.c: In function `intr_callback':
>rtl8150.c:907: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
>rtl8150.c:930: error: `USB_ST_NOERROR' undeclared (first use in this
>function)
>rtl8150.c:932: error: `USB_ST_URB_KILLED' undeclared (first use in this
>function)
>rtl8150.c: In function `rtl8150_tx_timeout':
>rtl8150.c:944: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
>rtl8150.c: In function `rtl8150_start_xmit':
>rtl8150.c:964: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
>rtl8150.c:989: error: `USB_ASYNC_UNLINK' undeclared (first use in this
>function)
>rtl8150.c:990: error: too few arguments to function `usb_submit_urb'
>rtl8150.c: In function `rtl8150_netdev_stats':
>rtl8150.c:1014: error: parse error before ')' token
>rtl8150.c: At top level:
>rtl8150.c:1020: error: parse error before '*' token
>rtl8150.c: In function `disable_net_traffic':
>rtl8150.c:1025: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
>rtl8150.c: At top level:
>rtl8150.c:1031: error: parse error before '*' token
>rtl8150.c: In function `get_interrupt_interval':
>rtl8150.c:1037: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
>rtl8150.c: In function `rtl8150_open':
>rtl8150.c:1046: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
>rtl8150.c:1046: error: parse error before ')' token
>rtl8150.c:1051: warning: `MOD_INC_USE_COUNT' is deprecated (declared at
>/usr/src/linux/include/linux/module.h:502)
>rtl8150.c:1058: warning: `MOD_DEC_USE_COUNT' is deprecated (declared at
>/usr/src/linux/include/linux/module.h:514)
>rtl8150.c:1068: error: too few arguments to function `usb_submit_urb'
>rtl8150.c:1071: error: called object is not a function
>rtl8150.c:1071: error: parse error before string constant
>rtl8150.c: In function `rtl8150_close':
>rtl8150.c:1099: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
>rtl8150.c:1113: warning: `MOD_DEC_USE_COUNT' is deprecated (declared at
>/usr/src/linux/include/linux/module.h:514)
>rtl8150.c: In function `rtl8150_ioctl':
>rtl8150.c:1124: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
>rtl8150.c: In function `rtl8150_set_multicast':
>rtl8150.c:1150: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
>rtl8150.c: At top level:
>rtl8150.c:1228: error: parse error before '*' token
>rtl8150.c: In function `rtl8150_probe':
>rtl8150.c:1264: error: `rtl8150' undeclared (first use in this function)
>rtl8150.c:1280: error: structure has no member named
>`bConfigurationValue'
>rtl8150.c:1282: error: structure has no member named
>`bConfigurationValue'
>rtl8150.c:1290: error: invalid application of `sizeof' to an incomplete
>type
>rtl8150.c:1303: error: invalid application of `sizeof' to an incomplete
>type
>rtl8150.c:1303: error: invalid application of `sizeof' to an incomplete
>type
>rtl8150.c:1303: error: invalid application of `sizeof' to an incomplete
>type
>rtl8150.c:1303: error: invalid application of `sizeof' to an incomplete
>type
>rtl8150.c:1303: error: invalid application of `sizeof' to an incomplete
>type
>rtl8150.c:1303: error: invalid application of `sizeof' to an incomplete
>type
>rtl8150.c:1329:40: missing binary operator before token "("
>rtl8150.c: In function `rtl8150_disconnect':
>rtl8150.c:1379: error: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type
>rtl8150.c:1380: error: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type
>rtl8150.c: At top level:
>rtl8150.c:1390: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type
>rtl8150.c:1391: warning: initialization from incompatible pointer type
>[ringo at localhost linux]$
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
>James P. Kinney III
>Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 1:52 PM
>To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
>Subject: Re: [ale] Help with packages
>
>You need a bunch of *-devel packages. If you have the rmb dbinstalled,
>you can find what packages has what file with rpm -q --what-provides
>filefoo
>
>On Sun, 2005-01-16 at 12:59, ringo wrote:
>  
>
>>I'm running Suse 9.2 pro on a laptop. It's a brand new install.
>>
>>When I try to compile a program I get the following errors:
>>stage.h:62:63: glib.h: No such file or directory
>>rtk.h:32:21: gtk/gtk.h: No such file or directory
>>
>>I was told this means that I don't have the GTK develop stuff
>>    
>>
>installed.
>  
>
>>I went to KPackage and did a search for gtk and it finds things like
>>    
>>
>gtk
>  
>
>>and python-gtk but if I "Mark" any of them then the only button that
>>lights up is "uninstall", so I'm assuming that means that they are
>>already installed. What am I missing here?
>>Thanks
>>Ringo
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Ale mailing list
>>Ale at ale.org
>>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>
>>!DSPAM:41eaabbc102788744112271!
>>    
>>


From Dow.Hurst at mindspring.com  Sun Jan 16 22:04:39 2005
From: Dow.Hurst at mindspring.com (Dow Hurst)
Date: Sun Jan 16 22:04:39 2005
Subject: [ale] permissions
In-Reply-To: <031801c4fc37$46ce1bd0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
References: <031801c4fc37$46ce1bd0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
Message-ID: <41EB2A4B.1090503@mindspring.com>

Files that end in a .h are header files.  You may need the jpeglib 
package.  Yast2 ought to be able to find it for you if it is on the SuSE 
9.2 DVDs.  If not, then rpmfind.net can help or 
http://packman.links2linux.org can really help with SuSE stuff.  What 
are you installing?  Someone might have a specific answer too.  You 
might look into using apt on SuSE as well.
I am a big SuSE user and appreciate it's completeness.
Dow


ringo wrote:

>Thanks, that fixed that problem, now the next one is that It says I'm
>missing jpeglib.h and Jerror.h. Is this another package I failed to
>install and if it is how do I know what package it is contained in? I
>tried searching in the package stuff with Yast but didn't find anything.
>Thanks,
>Ringo
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
>William Wylde Baron Shatturday
>Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 8:27 PM
>To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
>Subject: Re: [ale] permissions
>
>ringo wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Should Read:
>>I'm using SUSE 9.2, I just installed it and I'm the only user.
>>When compiling a program I get an error "cannot create file
>>'/usr/local/lib/libtrk.a': Permission denied.
>>When I browse to the folder and look at properties it says only the
>>"owner" can change the permissions. Why am I not the owner and how do I
>>fix it?
>>
>> 
>>
>>    
>>
>
>The owner is "root", and that's the way you want it.  You need to "su" 
>and type the root password before you "make install"... 
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Ale mailing list
>Ale at ale.org
>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Ale mailing list
>Ale at ale.org
>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
>  
>


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Sun Jan 16 22:21:33 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Sun Jan 16 22:21:33 2005
Subject: [ale] Help with packages
In-Reply-To: <029b01c4fbf5$237d9ad0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
References: <029b01c4fbf5$237d9ad0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
Message-ID: <41EB2E49.7090906@3times25.net>

ringo wrote:
> I'm running Suse 9.2 pro on a laptop. It's a brand new install.
> 
> When I try to compile a program I get the following errors:
> stage.h:62:63: glib.h: No such file or directory
> rtk.h:32:21: gtk/gtk.h: No such file or directory
> 
> I was told this means that I don't have the GTK develop stuff installed.
> 
> I went to KPackage and did a search for gtk and it finds things like gtk
> and python-gtk but if I "Mark" any of them then the only button that
> lights up is "uninstall", so I'm assuming that means that they are
> already installed. What am I missing here?

With Suse, you want to use Yast for installing software, not kpackage.

I suspect that you'll want gtk-devel, glib2-devel and glib-devel packages.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Sun Jan 16 22:25:50 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Sun Jan 16 22:25:50 2005
Subject: [ale] Routing slow on certain sites
In-Reply-To: <20050116183720.GA5163@speedfactory.net>
References: <20050116183720.GA5163@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <41EB2F46.7040000@3times25.net>

Jim Seymour wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> I am using my Debian Sarge box as a router for a WinXP box. What would
> cause the WinXP box to not be able to load certain sites (aol.com, etc.)
> when I can hop right over to the Debian box and access without problem.
> Most of the sites seem to pose no problem for the Win box. I do not see
> any access denied messages from the firewall and pinging them from the
> Win box works fine. I have tried DNS manually as well as pulling it
> from the Debian box. Any ideas appreciated. This is on a static dsl
> connection if that helps any.

What kind of message pops up in the browser?  What browser are you using 
  on the win box?

I'd at least try another browser on the win box.

It could be problems with internet exploder if you're using it.  Could 
be plain old Microsoft hegemony. :)

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Sun Jan 16 22:27:02 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Sun Jan 16 22:27:02 2005
Subject: [ale] Routing slow on certain sites
In-Reply-To: <1105901615.3975.23.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>
References: <20050116183720.GA5163@speedfactory.net>
	<1105901615.3975.23.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <41EB2F8F.5070902@3times25.net>

James P. Kinney III wrote:
> IE security settings may be blocking AOL due their use of Active-X.

What?  When Microsoft update requires active-x?

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Sun Jan 16 22:51:18 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Sun Jan 16 22:51:18 2005
Subject: [ale] Help with packages
In-Reply-To: <02b501c4fbfe$c8b274e0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
References: <02b501c4fbfe$c8b274e0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
Message-ID: <41EB353A.3080305@3times25.net>

ringo wrote:
> I figured out that YaST will install the packages.
> I have the kernel source and all the GTK stuff installed now so those
> errors are gone. However when I try to compile the driver for me
> usb-ethernet adapter I get the following errors.
> If I do 
> rpm -qa | grep kernel-source
>  then it returns
> kernel-source-2.6.8-24
> 
> It's missing stuff like Malloc, so if the kernel source is installed
> what else am I missing?

header files are usually found in -devel packages, I'd guess you might 
look for glibc-devel, but not sure.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Sun Jan 16 22:57:13 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Sun Jan 16 22:57:13 2005
Subject: [ale] permissions
In-Reply-To: <030f01c4fc30$69b9a3a0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
References: <030f01c4fc30$69b9a3a0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
Message-ID: <41EB36A2.3030500@3times25.net>

ringo wrote:
> I'm using SUSE 9.2, I just installed it and I'm the only user.
> When compiling a program I get an error "cannot create file
> '/l/lib/libtrk.a': Permission denied.
> When I browse to the folder an dlook at properties it says only the
> "owner" can change the permissions. Why am I not the owner and how do I
> fix it?

Depending on what you're compiling, it may require root perms to install 
the package.  In this case you should simply switch to root as in:

su

It will ask for a password, which you should recall from your install.

Once you're done, change back to your normal user.  You don't want to be 
root unless it's necessary.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Sun Jan 16 22:59:24 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Sun Jan 16 22:59:24 2005
Subject: [ale] permissions
In-Reply-To: <031801c4fc37$46ce1bd0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
References: <031801c4fc37$46ce1bd0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
Message-ID: <41EB3723.2080001@3times25.net>

ringo wrote:
> Thanks, that fixed that problem, now the next one is that It says I'm
> missing jpeglib.h and Jerror.h. Is this another package I failed to
> install and if it is how do I know what package it is contained in? I
> tried searching in the package stuff with Yast but didn't find anything.

You need to install libjpeg-devel package.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From ringo at margaritasrus.com  Sun Jan 16 23:13:32 2005
From: ringo at margaritasrus.com (ringo)
Date: Sun Jan 16 23:13:32 2005
Subject: [ale] permissions
In-Reply-To: <41EB2A4B.1090503@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <033201c4fc4a$5236a970$bb00a8c0@Ringo>

I'm trying to install the Player-Stage software from
http://playerstage.sourceforge.net/index.html

I searched rpmfind.net and the links2linux sites mentioned below as well
as Yast and nowhere is jpeglib found.

Then I thought to try just JPEG in Yast and I found what I needed. Just
needed to relax the search a little.
Thanks everyone for the help
Ringo

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Dow
Hurst
Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 10:00 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] permissions

Files that end in a .h are header files.  You may need the jpeglib 
package.  Yast2 ought to be able to find it for you if it is on the SuSE

9.2 DVDs.  If not, then rpmfind.net can help or 
http://packman.links2linux.org can really help with SuSE stuff.  What 
are you installing?  Someone might have a specific answer too.  You 
might look into using apt on SuSE as well.
I am a big SuSE user and appreciate it's completeness.
Dow


ringo wrote:

>Thanks, that fixed that problem, now the next one is that It says I'm
>missing jpeglib.h and Jerror.h. Is this another package I failed to
>install and if it is how do I know what package it is contained in? I
>tried searching in the package stuff with Yast but didn't find
anything.
>Thanks,
>Ringo
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
>William Wylde Baron Shatturday
>Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 8:27 PM
>To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
>Subject: Re: [ale] permissions
>
>ringo wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Should Read:
>>I'm using SUSE 9.2, I just installed it and I'm the only user.
>>When compiling a program I get an error "cannot create file
>>'/usr/local/lib/libtrk.a': Permission denied.
>>When I browse to the folder and look at properties it says only the
>>"owner" can change the permissions. Why am I not the owner and how do
I
>>fix it?
>>
>> 
>>
>>    
>>
>
>The owner is "root", and that's the way you want it.  You need to "su" 
>and type the root password before you "make install"... 
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Ale mailing list
>Ale at ale.org
>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Ale mailing list
>Ale at ale.org
>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
>  
>
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale




From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Sun Jan 16 23:19:55 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Sun Jan 16 23:19:55 2005
Subject: [ale] Routing slow on certain sites
In-Reply-To: <41EB2F8F.5070902@3times25.net>
References: <20050116183720.GA5163@speedfactory.net>
	<1105901615.3975.23.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>
	<41EB2F8F.5070902@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <1105935338.8191.4.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>

On Sun, 2005-01-16 at 22:22, Geoffrey wrote:
> James P. Kinney III wrote:
> > IE security settings may be blocking AOL due their use of Active-X.
> 
> What?  When Microsoft update requires active-x?

Yeah. I know the frustration. Gotta have to keep the buggers out, but
can't have it running or else the buggers get in.

By using the selective sites in the control panel stuff for IE, it is
possible to only allow http://*.microsoft.com and
http://*.windowsupdate.microsoft.com to use Active-X. 

For my clients, I set up firefox and remove all desktop links and menu
links for IE. If they _insist_ on using IE, I can launch it from "run"
and check the history file as most don't know how to clear it. If the
cache space has ANYTHING in it, I know they have used IE and I get to
remind them that it costs $$$$$$$ to clean up a network if crap takes
over.

Then I bill them.
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From mpwright at speedfactory.net  Sun Jan 16 23:33:49 2005
From: mpwright at speedfactory.net (Mark Wright)
Date: Sun Jan 16 23:33:49 2005
Subject: [ale] Mount an ipod
Message-ID: <5A798258-6840-11D9-8C8B-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>

Does anyone know if I can mount an HFS (mac) format ipod connected via 
USB on mandrake 9.2 and have GTKpod use it.

I have made a few attempts.  I may need to link /dev/sdb to /mnt/ipod.

My real issue is that GTKpod is looking for 
/mnt/ipod/ipod_Control/iTunes/iTunesDB.  The GTKpod instructions say 
that there are at least two disks that have to mount on the ipod.  For 
example sdb1 would be the OS and sdb2 the music DB.  It is the music DB 
that GTKpod needs.  All I see is the result of /proc/scsi/scsi shows:

Host: scsi1  = apple ipod Direct-access

And when I do eject /dev/sdb my ipod unmounts properly.

Any ideas?


Thanks....Mark 


From pete.hardie at gmail.com  Sun Jan 16 23:38:12 2005
From: pete.hardie at gmail.com (Pete Hardie)
Date: Sun Jan 16 23:38:12 2005
Subject: [ale] My Next Computer
Message-ID: <31b322400501162034443f1881@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

As I contemplate the next rounds of hardware upgrades that loom on the
far horizon of next Christmas' software hits, I had an idea that
probably is nuts, but worth exploring:

USB peripherals, all the way, on a motherboard with just video card
and RAM - USB keyboard and mouse, USB HDs, USB CD/DVD-RW, etc.  Then I
can spend just $200 to get new mobo and/or video card if necessary,
keeping my config and stuff safe.  I can add on HDs as needed to
upgrade OS, etc.

I'd probably need to keep a PS2 keyboard around for BIOS setup
out-of-the-box, of course.

So is this just a pipedream, or is an all-USB system possible ?


-- 
Better Living Through Bitmaps


From drifter at oppositelock.org  Mon Jan 17 00:55:39 2005
From: drifter at oppositelock.org (Sean Kilpatrick)
Date: Mon Jan 17 00:55:39 2005
Subject: [ale] Weirdness
Message-ID: <200501170033.44355.drifter@oppositelock.org>

On saturday I asked:

| I get an e-mail.  It has a link to a web page.
| Like any good email program KMail highlights the
| link.  I click on it and . . . eventually . . .
| the page loads into Mozilla. But the address is so
| corrupted that all links internal to that web page
| do not work -- can not work.

I finally solved this mess.

KDE Control Center > KDE Components > Component Chooser > 
Web Browser > Default Component:
  Open http and https URLs
   * in the following browser: /usr/bin/mozilla

Mine had been set to open http "in an application based on the
contents of the URL."

Sean

Now all I have left is to get the software to find the
USB scanner.  The OS can find it and correctly identify it.

I _think_ there is a problem in the (by me) not understood
connection between USB and SCSI. There is some sort of tie-in
but I haven't a clue how it is supposed to work.

Would it help if I reboot with the scanner turned off and
tell Kudzu to uninstall it, then reboot again and tell Kudzu
to reinstall it?

Sean

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From jkf at wolfnet.org  Mon Jan 17 02:44:45 2005
From: jkf at wolfnet.org (Jason Fritcher)
Date: Mon Jan 17 02:44:45 2005
Subject: [ale] My Next Computer
In-Reply-To: <31b322400501162034443f1881@mail.gmail.com>
References: <31b322400501162034443f1881@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41EB6BAE.4080007@wolfnet.org>

Pete Hardie wrote:
> I'd probably need to keep a PS2 keyboard around for BIOS setup
> out-of-the-box, of course.

No need to do that. Every system I've seen since the P2 has BIOS and chipset
support to use USB keyboards before booting an OS. The BIOS configures the
system chipset in such a way that it intercepts accesses to the real
keyboard controller and redirects them to the USB keyboard/mouse. From what
I've played around with it, even old old old DOS programs are fooled by it.

--
Jason Fritcher
jkf at wolfnet.org
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From esoteric at 3times25.net  Mon Jan 17 07:50:35 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Mon Jan 17 07:50:35 2005
Subject: [ale] Mount an ipod
In-Reply-To: <5A798258-6840-11D9-8C8B-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>
References: <5A798258-6840-11D9-8C8B-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <41EBB347.6050809@3times25.net>

Mark Wright wrote:
> Does anyone know if I can mount an HFS (mac) format ipod connected via 
> USB on mandrake 9.2 and have GTKpod use it.

Years ago I mounted an old mac zip drive on my Linux box.  I can't 
recall the file system and don't know enough about macs to know what it 
should have been, but it was successful.

There is support in the kernel for HFS:

Apple Macintosh file system support
CONFIG_HFS_FS
   If you say Y here, you will be able to mount Macintosh-formatted
   floppy disks and hard drive partitions with full read-write access.
   Please read <file:fs/hfs/HFS.txt> to learn about the available mount
   options.

Can't help you with the rest... :(

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Mon Jan 17 07:51:56 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Mon Jan 17 07:51:56 2005
Subject: [ale] My Next Computer
In-Reply-To: <31b322400501162034443f1881@mail.gmail.com>
References: <31b322400501162034443f1881@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41EBB3D1.2000302@3times25.net>

Pete Hardie wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> As I contemplate the next rounds of hardware upgrades that loom on the
> far horizon of next Christmas' software hits, I had an idea that
> probably is nuts, but worth exploring:
> 
> USB peripherals, all the way, on a motherboard with just video card
> and RAM - USB keyboard and mouse, USB HDs, USB CD/DVD-RW, etc.  Then I
> can spend just $200 to get new mobo and/or video card if necessary,
> keeping my config and stuff safe.  I can add on HDs as needed to
> upgrade OS, etc.

I don't know that you would want to go that route for your drives as well.

> I'd probably need to keep a PS2 keyboard around for BIOS setup
> out-of-the-box, of course.

Most modern Linux distros and reasonably modern motherboards will see 
the usb keyboard/mouse at boot.

> So is this just a pipedream, or is an all-USB system possible ?

I think the most difficult problem you'll have is getting it to boot off 
of a usb device.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From preston.boyington at mindspring.com  Mon Jan 17 08:12:29 2005
From: preston.boyington at mindspring.com (Preston Boyington)
Date: Mon Jan 17 08:12:29 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux boot screen
In-Reply-To: <20050115180031.29571a44@sumners.ath.cx>
References: <1105803919.6611.5.camel@blue>	<20050115110516.6a11d1eb@sumners.ath.cx>	<1105829378.5196.9.camel@blue>
	<20050115180031.29571a44@sumners.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <41EBB886.7010706@mindspring.com>

James Sumners wrote:
> It is the only project I am aware of. I installed it today on my machine (Debian
> with kernel 2.6.7) whilst upgrading hard drives. It works well and was very easy
> to set up. The site linked in that tutorial -- http://www.bootsplash.de/ -- has
> much more up-to-date information that bootsplash.org.
> 

another (Debian) project that I know of is Debblue.  It consists of:
* GRUB theme
* bootsplash theme
* GDM theme
* desktop splash screen
* desktop background

You can find screenshots and also download the themes at 
http://debblue.debian.net/

I use a variation of this on my LiveCD project.

Preston


From wormfishin at gmail.com  Mon Jan 17 08:43:06 2005
From: wormfishin at gmail.com (Nick Travis)
Date: Mon Jan 17 08:43:06 2005
Subject: [ale] When to upgrade?
Message-ID: <acb6c4410501170539508f8c0a@mail.gmail.com>

I was debating whether or not I should upgrade the version of my disto
on a couple of systems.  One of these is a production system and one
is not, but it is pretty important.  Both are on the Internet so
security is a concern.  Is there a general rule as to when the OS
needs to be updated?  For example, if I'm running SUSE 9.0 are there
any risks associated with not upgrading to 9.2?  What if its 9.1?


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Mon Jan 17 08:54:10 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Mon Jan 17 08:54:10 2005
Subject: [ale] When to upgrade?
In-Reply-To: <acb6c4410501170539508f8c0a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <acb6c4410501170539508f8c0a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41EBC288.2070500@3times25.net>

Nick Travis wrote:
> I was debating whether or not I should upgrade the version of my disto
> on a couple of systems.  One of these is a production system and one
> is not, but it is pretty important.  Both are on the Internet so
> security is a concern.  Is there a general rule as to when the OS
> needs to be updated?  For example, if I'm running SUSE 9.0 are there
> any risks associated with not upgrading to 9.2?  What if its 9.1?

Generally, as long as the version is still supported, an upgrade is not 
warranted from a security perspective.  I'm pretty sure Suse is still 
providing support/updates for all 9.* so you should be okay.

Upgrades are necessary to get newer functionality.  Upgrades for 
security purposes are not necessary until the version you're running is 
no longer supported.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From pete.hardie at gmail.com  Mon Jan 17 09:36:03 2005
From: pete.hardie at gmail.com (Pete Hardie)
Date: Mon Jan 17 09:36:03 2005
Subject: [ale] My Next Computer
In-Reply-To: <41EB6BAE.4080007@wolfnet.org>
References: <31b322400501162034443f1881@mail.gmail.com>
	<41EB6BAE.4080007@wolfnet.org>
Message-ID: <31b3224005011706317643ef@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 02:39:26 -0500, Jason Fritcher <jkf at wolfnet.org> wrote:
> Pete Hardie wrote:
> > I'd probably need to keep a PS2 keyboard around for BIOS setup
> > out-of-the-box, of course.
> 
> No need to do that. Every system I've seen since the P2 has BIOS and chipset
> support to use USB keyboards before booting an OS. The BIOS configures the
> system chipset in such a way that it intercepts accesses to the real
> keyboard controller and redirects them to the USB keyboard/mouse. From what
> I've played around with it, even old old old DOS programs are fooled by it.

Excellent!  My plans are one step closer to World Dom^H^H^H^H^H^H
cheap computing!

-- 
Better Living Through Bitmaps


From pete.hardie at gmail.com  Mon Jan 17 09:39:48 2005
From: pete.hardie at gmail.com (Pete Hardie)
Date: Mon Jan 17 09:39:48 2005
Subject: [ale] My Next Computer
In-Reply-To: <41EBB3D1.2000302@3times25.net>
References: <31b322400501162034443f1881@mail.gmail.com>
	<41EBB3D1.2000302@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <31b3224005011706356a530971@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 07:47:13 -0500, Geoffrey <esoteric at 3times25.net> wrote:

> I don't know that you would want to go that route for your drives as well.

Well, that's also partly driven by my wish to have easy-to-move drives
for my system and the wife's.

As an aside, if I want a disk drive for general storage of MP3s and
pictures, accessible from linux and M$, what's a good filesystem to
use?  NTFS?  FAT?  Or are there ext{2|3} format readers for Windows?

> > So is this just a pipedream, or is an all-USB system possible ?
> 
> I think the most difficult problem you'll have is getting it to boot off
> of a usb device.

Good point.  I thought I had seen something inidcating that "modern"
BIOSes could do this - in reference to a USB flash drive boot tool.


-- 
Better Living Through Bitmaps


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Mon Jan 17 09:54:33 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Mon Jan 17 09:54:33 2005
Subject: [ale] My Next Computer
In-Reply-To: <31b3224005011706356a530971@mail.gmail.com>
References: <31b322400501162034443f1881@mail.gmail.com>	<41EBB3D1.2000302@3times25.net>
	<31b3224005011706356a530971@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41EBD0B2.8030102@3times25.net>

Pete Hardie wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 07:47:13 -0500, Geoffrey <esoteric at 3times25.net> wrote:
> 
> 
>>I don't know that you would want to go that route for your drives as well.
> 
> Well, that's also partly driven by my wish to have easy-to-move drives
> for my system and the wife's.
> 
> As an aside, if I want a disk drive for general storage of MP3s and
> pictures, accessible from linux and M$, what's a good filesystem to
> use?  NTFS?  FAT?  Or are there ext{2|3} format readers for Windows?

What happened to world domination???

I have an external usb/firewire drive that is 160g, I've seen the same 
model in a 250g.  You'll likely end up going with fat if you want 
writeability from both Linux and windows.

>>>So is this just a pipedream, or is an all-USB system possible ?
>>
>>I think the most difficult problem you'll have is getting it to boot off
>>of a usb device.
> 
> 
> Good point.  I thought I had seen something inidcating that "modern"
> BIOSes could do this - in reference to a USB flash drive boot tool.

I've wanted to test this in the past as I've seen usb drives show up 
during Linux installs, but haven't had the time to play with it.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Mon Jan 17 10:02:06 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Mon Jan 17 10:02:06 2005
Subject: [ale] ALE NorthWest January Meeting Announcement
Message-ID: <41EBD274.2040601@3times25.net>

Date: January 20, 2005
Time: 8:00 PM
Location: Clendenin Building
Room: CL 1007

Presenter: Ray Knight

Presentation: Installing Ubuntu Linux on Power Macintosh

My presentation will cover installing Ubuntu Linux on
Power Macintosh hardware.  I will cover the different
types of Power Macintosh hardware, and what systems are
supported by Ubuntu Linux.  I will then demonstrate
an install on a Beige Power Macintosh G3.

Bio: Ray Knight was introduced to Linux in 1993.  He
participates in the Linux community by helping to maintain
the Linux port to Motorola 68k based Macintosh and the
early Nubus based PowerMacs.  Currently he is employed by
ChoicePoint as a Java developer.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From pete.hardie at gmail.com  Mon Jan 17 10:34:23 2005
From: pete.hardie at gmail.com (Pete Hardie)
Date: Mon Jan 17 10:34:23 2005
Subject: [ale] My Next Computer
In-Reply-To: <41EBD0B2.8030102@3times25.net>
References: <31b322400501162034443f1881@mail.gmail.com>
	<41EBB3D1.2000302@3times25.net>
	<31b3224005011706356a530971@mail.gmail.com>
	<41EBD0B2.8030102@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <31b32240050117073026664273@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 09:50:26 -0500, Geoffrey <esoteric at 3times25.net> wrote:
> Pete Hardie wrote:
> > On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 07:47:13 -0500, Geoffrey <esoteric at 3times25.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I don't know that you would want to go that route for your drives as well.
> >
> > Well, that's also partly driven by my wish to have easy-to-move drives
> > for my system and the wife's.
> >
> > As an aside, if I want a disk drive for general storage of MP3s and
> > pictures, accessible from linux and M$, what's a good filesystem to
> > use?  NTFS?  FAT?  Or are there ext{2|3} format readers for Windows?
> 
> What happened to world domination???

<shhhh>


> 
> I have an external usb/firewire drive that is 160g, I've seen the same
> model in a 250g.  You'll likely end up going with fat if you want
> writeability from both Linux and windows.

Ok, I can deal with that as a storage format, esp since all the flash
drives inthe house end up FAT32 anyway.

> 
> >>>So is this just a pipedream, or is an all-USB system possible ?
> >>
> >>I think the most difficult problem you'll have is getting it to boot off
> >>of a usb device.
> >
> >
> > Good point.  I thought I had seen something inidcating that "modern"
> > BIOSes could do this - in reference to a USB flash drive boot tool.
> 
> I've wanted to test this in the past as I've seen usb drives show up
> during Linux installs, but haven't had the time to play with it.

I've got a buddy that just built his own new machine - I'll ping him
and see if he can get a USB drive to boot.

-- 
Better Living Through Bitmaps


From greg.freemyer at gmail.com  Mon Jan 17 11:52:13 2005
From: greg.freemyer at gmail.com (Greg Freemyer)
Date: Mon Jan 17 11:52:13 2005
Subject: [ale] When to upgrade?
In-Reply-To: <41EBC288.2070500@3times25.net>
References: <acb6c4410501170539508f8c0a@mail.gmail.com>
	<41EBC288.2070500@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <87f94c3705011708473f0610ec@mail.gmail.com>

SUSE provides security patches for 2 years on its "enthusiast" line. 
(8.1, 8.2, 9.0, 9.1)

5 years on the Enterprise line. (SLES 8, SLES 9)

SuSE is releasing its final set of 8.1 security fixes right now.  So
if anyone is still running it, they should consider upgrading soon.

9.0 is only a little over a year old, so you have another year before
they quit providing security patches.  SInce 9.0 is the last of the
2.4.x kernels from SUSE, I would not be surprised if they support it
even beyond the 2 year point.

FYI: SuSE has a security announcement mailing list that is extremely
low volume.  It is worth subscribing to if you want to know when
distros are going out of support.

Greg
-- 
Greg Freemyer

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 08:50:00 -0500, Geoffrey <esoteric at 3times25.net> wrote:
> Nick Travis wrote:
> > I was debating whether or not I should upgrade the version of my disto
> > on a couple of systems.  One of these is a production system and one
> > is not, but it is pretty important.  Both are on the Internet so
> > security is a concern.  Is there a general rule as to when the OS
> > needs to be updated?  For example, if I'm running SUSE 9.0 are there
> > any risks associated with not upgrading to 9.2?  What if its 9.1?
> 
> Generally, as long as the version is still supported, an upgrade is not
> warranted from a security perspective.  I'm pretty sure Suse is still
> providing support/updates for all 9.* so you should be okay.
> 
> Upgrades are necessary to get newer functionality.  Upgrades for
> security purposes are not necessary until the version you're running is
> no longer supported.
> 
> --
> Until later, Geoffrey
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>


From bluejay at speedfactory.net  Mon Jan 17 12:14:31 2005
From: bluejay at speedfactory.net (Jim Seymour)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:14:31 2005
Subject: [ale] Routing slow on certain sites
In-Reply-To: <41EB2F46.7040000@3times25.net>
References: <20050116183720.GA5163@speedfactory.net>
	<41EB2F46.7040000@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <20050117170905.GA10244@speedfactory.net>

On Sun, Jan 16, 2005 at 10:21:42PM -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> 
> What kind of message pops up in the browser?  What browser are you
> using on the win box?
> 
> I'd at least try another browser on the win box.
> 
> It could be problems with internet exploder if you're using it.  Could
> be plain old Microsoft hegemony. :)
>

The most common message while waiting (forever) is "Opening page
........" The browser is IE 6. I'll have a chat with the girlfriend
about installing a different browser. The slowness goes way beyond
aol.com. Some other sites that wouldn't load on the Win box that I could
turn around and load immediately on the Linux router are:

www.star94.com
www.morningstar.com
www.half.com
www.bankofamerica.com

I turned off the "QoS Packet Scheduler" on the Win box to see if could
be part of the problem....no difference. Any other ideas in the
meantime?

Thanks All,

Jim Seymour


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 17 12:38:18 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:38:18 2005
Subject: [ale] My Next Computer
In-Reply-To: <31b3224005011706317643ef@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.52.1105983497.18563.ale@ale.org>

 Now that the OS X machines for the home come in so cheaply, I'll have one
of the new boxes in a couple months.  

In the home, we'll have all OS X, and for our servers here (currently 4)
we'll have all Linux.  For the database server specifically, I'll run
FreeBSD most likely.

Finally, I'm going to replace this laptop with a Powerbook, and I'll be all
set.


Jerald M. Sheets jr.
Sr. UNIX Systems Administrator
McKesson, Inc.
(404) 293-8762
**********
>su -
Password:
# cat /dev/flood > /dev/earth
# rdev noah+beasts
# dd if=noah+beasts of=/dev/earth

PGP Key: 0x6267F183
BLOG:  http://www.jeraldsheets.com

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GIT d+ s++: a C++++ UL++++ P++ L+++ E--- W++ N+ o-- K+ w-- 
O M+ V PS- PE++ Y+ PGP++ t++ 5++ X+ R* tv- b+ DI++++ D++ 
G+ e h---- r+++ y++++ 
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Pete
Hardie
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 9:32 AM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] My Next Computer

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 02:39:26 -0500, Jason Fritcher <jkf at wolfnet.org> wrote:
> Pete Hardie wrote:
> > I'd probably need to keep a PS2 keyboard around for BIOS setup 
> > out-of-the-box, of course.
> 
> No need to do that. Every system I've seen since the P2 has BIOS and 
> chipset support to use USB keyboards before booting an OS. The BIOS 
> configures the system chipset in such a way that it intercepts 
> accesses to the real keyboard controller and redirects them to the USB 
> keyboard/mouse. From what I've played around with it, even old old old DOS
programs are fooled by it.

Excellent!  My plans are one step closer to World Dom^H^H^H^H^H^H cheap
computing!

--
Better Living Through Bitmaps
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.13 - Release Date: 1/16/2005
 

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.13 - Release Date: 1/16/2005
 


From greg.freemyer at gmail.com  Mon Jan 17 12:48:25 2005
From: greg.freemyer at gmail.com (Greg Freemyer)
Date: Mon Jan 17 12:48:25 2005
Subject: [ale] My Next Computer
In-Reply-To: <31b32240050117073026664273@mail.gmail.com>
References: <31b322400501162034443f1881@mail.gmail.com>
	<41EBB3D1.2000302@3times25.net>
	<31b3224005011706356a530971@mail.gmail.com>
	<41EBD0B2.8030102@3times25.net>
	<31b32240050117073026664273@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87f94c37050117094450bfd97c@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Pete,

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 10:30:16 -0500, Pete Hardie <pete.hardie at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 09:50:26 -0500, Geoffrey <esoteric at 3times25.net> wrote:
> > Pete Hardie wrote:
> > > On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 07:47:13 -0500, Geoffrey <esoteric at 3times25.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>I don't know that you would want to go that route for your drives as well.
> > >
> > > Well, that's also partly driven by my wish to have easy-to-move drives
> > > for my system and the wife's.
> > >
> > > As an aside, if I want a disk drive for general storage of MP3s and
> > > pictures, accessible from linux and M$, what's a good filesystem to
> > > use?  NTFS?  FAT?  Or are there ext{2|3} format readers for Windows?
> >
> > What happened to world domination???
> 
> <shhhh>
> 
> 
> >
> > I have an external usb/firewire drive that is 160g, I've seen the same
> > model in a 250g.  You'll likely end up going with fat if you want
> > writeability from both Linux and windows.
> 
> Ok, I can deal with that as a storage format, esp since all the flash
> drives inthe house end up FAT32 anyway.
> 

 Warning to all, FAT32 in the 2.4 kernels from SUSE 8.1 were buggy if
you went past 137 GB.  (I don't know if that is a device, or partition
issue.  I tested a 250GB disk with a single 250GB partition.  Worked
fine until I put too much data on it.)

The 2.6 kernel from SUSE 9.2 seems to work fine in my testing.

> >
> > >>>So is this just a pipedream, or is an all-USB system possible ?
> > >>
> > >>I think the most difficult problem you'll have is getting it to boot off
> > >>of a usb device.
> > >
> > >
> > > Good point.  I thought I had seen something inidcating that "modern"
> > > BIOSes could do this - in reference to a USB flash drive boot tool.
> >
> > I've wanted to test this in the past as I've seen usb drives show up
> > during Linux installs, but haven't had the time to play with it.
> 
> I've got a buddy that just built his own new machine - I'll ping him
> and see if he can get a USB drive to boot.

I have one machine with a new Intel P4 MB.  It has a boot from USB
entry in the bios.  If I have it enabled, the boot process stops if I
have a thumb-drive in the USB port.  (i.e. The thumb-drive appears to
be the preferred boot media.)

I have not tried putting a MBR, etc. on the thumb drive, but I assume
it would work.

A bigger issue is that USB 2.0 is slow compared with ATA, and SATA
will be even faster, so why tie yourself to such a slow technology:

    usb 2.0 = 480 mbit/sec = 50 MB/sec = slow
    ATA/100 = 100 MB/sec = okay, and very common
    ATA/133 = 133 MB/sec = good, but the end of the PATA line
    SATA/150 = 150 MB/sec = Today's starting point for SATA performance.
    SATA/600 = 600 MB/sec = the potential future of SATA drives

Admittedly, all of the above are theoretical burst speeds, but
real-world speeds are a function of the above.

I've also heard a rumor that 128+ GB PATA drives are being
discontinued in favor of SATA drives.  (Any confirmations out there??)

Admittedly, we still use PATA drives as our standard drive, but if I
was setting up new disk drive configs (even for my house), I would be
looking at SATA.

What we do for all of our "movable" PATA drives is use a disk carrier.
 The ICY-Dock carriers are about $50 each.  With them I can quickly
move disks around and I still get the native PATA speed.  Since
hot-swap is not supported on most ATA controllers, we do power down
the PCs during disk moves.

SATA cables can be upto 1 meter long, but I don't know if you can get
external SATA boxes similar to the USB-2 external boxes?

Greg
-- 
Greg Freemyer


From mailinglists at synban.com  Mon Jan 17 13:29:17 2005
From: mailinglists at synban.com (Emil P. Man)
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:29:17 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: Exchange Hosting
Message-ID: <41EBFF10.4060200@synban.com>

Hello all,

I know this is a little off topic, and /hiss M$ related, however, I need 
a good recomendation on a local company here in Atlanta, that will host 
M$ exchange for us.

Anybody have any recomendations?

I know, I can't go Linux just yet.... Boss REQUIRES M$ Exchange, offsite....

Emil


From bluejay at speedfactory.net  Mon Jan 17 13:45:41 2005
From: bluejay at speedfactory.net (Jim Seymour)
Date: Mon Jan 17 13:45:41 2005
Subject: [ale] Routing slow on certain sites
In-Reply-To: <20050117170905.GA10244@speedfactory.net>
References: <20050116183720.GA5163@speedfactory.net>
	<41EB2F46.7040000@3times25.net>
	<20050117170905.GA10244@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <20050117183934.GB10244@speedfactory.net>

On Mon, Jan 17, 2005 at 12:09:05PM -0500, Jim Seymour wrote:
> 
> The most common message while waiting (forever) is "Opening page
> ........" The browser is IE 6. I'll have a chat with the girlfriend
> about installing a different browser. The slowness goes way beyond
> aol.com. Some other sites that wouldn't load on the Win box that I could
> turn around and load immediately on the Linux router are:
> 
> www.star94.com
> www.morningstar.com
> www.half.com
> www.bankofamerica.com
> 
> I turned off the "QoS Packet Scheduler" on the Win box to see if could
> be part of the problem....no difference. Any other ideas in the
> meantime?
>

I should also add that if I disable the lan connection on the Win XP box
I can connect to all of these sites quickly using a dial-up connection.

Thanks,

Jim Seymour


From Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net  Mon Jan 17 14:01:38 2005
From: Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net (Robert L. Harris)
Date: Mon Jan 17 14:01:38 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: Exchange Hosting
In-Reply-To: <41EBFF10.4060200@synban.com>
References: <41EBFF10.4060200@synban.com>
Message-ID: <20050117185724.GR2306@rdlg.net>



I'm in a similar situation.  The CEO of our company requires the
exchange, calendar integration and of course nothing else has this
capability.  We use "outerbounds.com" as an ASP.  Generally they work
well though they're expanding and have ocasional growth pains.


Thus spake Emil P. Man (mailinglists at synban.com):

> Hello all,
> 
> I know this is a little off topic, and /hiss M$ related, however, I need 
> a good recomendation on a local company here in Atlanta, that will host 
> M$ exchange for us.
> 
> Anybody have any recomendations?
> 
> I know, I can't go Linux just yet.... Boss REQUIRES M$ Exchange, offsite....
> 
> Emil
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

:wq!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert L. Harris                     | GPG Key ID: E344DA3B
                                         @ x-hkp://pgp.mit.edu
DISCLAIMER:
      These are MY OPINIONS             With Dreams To Be A King,
       ALONE.  I speak for              First One Should Be A Man
       no-one else.                       - Manowar

-------------- next part --------------
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From mailinglists at synban.com  Mon Jan 17 14:06:48 2005
From: mailinglists at synban.com (Emil P. Man)
Date: Mon Jan 17 14:06:48 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: Exchange Hosting
In-Reply-To: <20050117185724.GR2306@rdlg.net>
References: <41EBFF10.4060200@synban.com> <20050117185724.GR2306@rdlg.net>
Message-ID: <41EC07E6.60801@synban.com>

Robert L. Harris wrote:

>I'm in a similar situation.  The CEO of our company requires the
>exchange, calendar integration and of course nothing else has this
>capability.  We use "outerbounds.com" as an ASP.  Generally they work
>well though they're expanding and have ocasional growth pains.
>
>
>Thus spake Emil P. Man (mailinglists at synban.com):
>
>  
>
>>Hello all,
>>
>>I know this is a little off topic, and /hiss M$ related, however, I need 
>>a good recomendation on a local company here in Atlanta, that will host 
>>M$ exchange for us.
>>
>>Anybody have any recomendations?
>>
>>I know, I can't go Linux just yet.... Boss REQUIRES M$ Exchange, offsite....
>>
>>Emil
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Ale mailing list
>>Ale at ale.org
>>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>    
>>
>
>:wq!
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Robert L. Harris                     | GPG Key ID: E344DA3B
>                                         @ x-hkp://pgp.mit.edu
>DISCLAIMER:
>      These are MY OPINIONS             With Dreams To Be A King,
>       ALONE.  I speak for              First One Should Be A Man
>       no-one else.                       - Manowar
>
>  
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>Ale mailing list
>Ale at ale.org
>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
thanks Robert, exactly along the lines of what I needed. I am looking at 
the http://www.ribbit.net/ web site right now, but they seem a little 
pricey... about 100$ per user...  is that normal?


From Dow.Hurst at mindspring.com  Mon Jan 17 14:23:10 2005
From: Dow.Hurst at mindspring.com (Dow Hurst)
Date: Mon Jan 17 14:23:10 2005
Subject: [ale] Routing slow on certain sites
In-Reply-To: <20050117183934.GB10244@speedfactory.net>
References: <20050116183720.GA5163@speedfactory.net>	<41EB2F46.7040000@3times25.net>	<20050117170905.GA10244@speedfactory.net>
	<20050117183934.GB10244@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <41EC0FA8.9000603@mindspring.com>

The MTU on the Win box could be too high.  If the inside interface on 
the Linux router is less than 1500 then set the WinXP box to match it.
Dow


Jim Seymour wrote:

>On Mon, Jan 17, 2005 at 12:09:05PM -0500, Jim Seymour wrote:
>  
>
>>The most common message while waiting (forever) is "Opening page
>>........" The browser is IE 6. I'll have a chat with the girlfriend
>>about installing a different browser. The slowness goes way beyond
>>aol.com. Some other sites that wouldn't load on the Win box that I could
>>turn around and load immediately on the Linux router are:
>>
>>www.star94.com
>>www.morningstar.com
>>www.half.com
>>www.bankofamerica.com
>>
>>I turned off the "QoS Packet Scheduler" on the Win box to see if could
>>be part of the problem....no difference. Any other ideas in the
>>meantime?
>>
>>    
>>
>
>I should also add that if I disable the lan connection on the Win XP box
>I can connect to all of these sites quickly using a dial-up connection.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jim Seymour
>_______________________________________________
>Ale mailing list
>Ale at ale.org
>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
>  
>


From Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net  Mon Jan 17 14:28:29 2005
From: Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net (Robert L. Harris)
Date: Mon Jan 17 14:28:29 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: Exchange Hosting
In-Reply-To: <41EC07E6.60801@synban.com>
References: <41EBFF10.4060200@synban.com> <20050117185724.GR2306@rdlg.net>
	<41EC07E6.60801@synban.com>
Message-ID: <20050117192411.GS2306@rdlg.net>



I don't know.  I'm one of the group in my company who managed to stay
off exchange on the grounds that our email is work critical and we thus
can't control any outages.



Thus spake Emil P. Man (mailinglists at synban.com):

> Robert L. Harris wrote:
> 
> >I'm in a similar situation.  The CEO of our company requires the
> >exchange, calendar integration and of course nothing else has this
> >capability.  We use "outerbounds.com" as an ASP.  Generally they work
> >well though they're expanding and have ocasional growth pains.
> >
> >
> >Thus spake Emil P. Man (mailinglists at synban.com):
> >
> > 
> >
> >>Hello all,
> >>
> >>I know this is a little off topic, and /hiss M$ related, however, I need 
> >>a good recomendation on a local company here in Atlanta, that will host 
> >>M$ exchange for us.
> >>
> >>Anybody have any recomendations?
> >>
> >>I know, I can't go Linux just yet.... Boss REQUIRES M$ Exchange, 
> >>offsite....
> >>
> >>Emil
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Ale mailing list
> >>Ale at ale.org
> >>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> >>   
> >>
> >
> >:wq!
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >Robert L. Harris                     | GPG Key ID: E344DA3B
> >                                        @ x-hkp://pgp.mit.edu
> >DISCLAIMER:
> >     These are MY OPINIONS             With Dreams To Be A King,
> >      ALONE.  I speak for              First One Should Be A Man
> >      no-one else.                       - Manowar
> >
> > 
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Ale mailing list
> >Ale at ale.org
> >http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> >
> thanks Robert, exactly along the lines of what I needed. I am looking at 
> the http://www.ribbit.net/ web site right now, but they seem a little 
> pricey... about 100$ per user...  is that normal?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> ** CRM114 Whitelisted by: mit.edu **

:wq!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert L. Harris                     | GPG Key ID: E344DA3B
                                         @ x-hkp://pgp.mit.edu
DISCLAIMER:
      These are MY OPINIONS             With Dreams To Be A King,
       ALONE.  I speak for              First One Should Be A Man
       no-one else.                       - Manowar

-------------- next part --------------
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From Dow.Hurst at mindspring.com  Mon Jan 17 14:29:18 2005
From: Dow.Hurst at mindspring.com (Dow Hurst)
Date: Mon Jan 17 14:29:18 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: Exchange Hosting
In-Reply-To: <20050117185724.GR2306@rdlg.net>
References: <41EBFF10.4060200@synban.com> <20050117185724.GR2306@rdlg.net>
Message-ID: <41EC1112.9020807@mindspring.com>

I thought this was solved by a couple of different projects.  Isn't 
there a complete open source replacement for MSExchange out there?
Dow


Robert L. Harris wrote:

>I'm in a similar situation.  The CEO of our company requires the
>exchange, calendar integration and of course nothing else has this
>capability.  We use "outerbounds.com" as an ASP.  Generally they work
>well though they're expanding and have ocasional growth pains.
>
>
>Thus spake Emil P. Man (mailinglists at synban.com):
>
>  
>
>>Hello all,
>>
>>I know this is a little off topic, and /hiss M$ related, however, I need 
>>a good recomendation on a local company here in Atlanta, that will host 
>>M$ exchange for us.
>>
>>Anybody have any recomendations?
>>
>>I know, I can't go Linux just yet.... Boss REQUIRES M$ Exchange, offsite....
>>
>>Emil
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Ale mailing list
>>Ale at ale.org
>>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>    
>>
>
>:wq!
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Robert L. Harris                     | GPG Key ID: E344DA3B
>                                         @ x-hkp://pgp.mit.edu
>DISCLAIMER:
>      These are MY OPINIONS             With Dreams To Be A King,
>       ALONE.  I speak for              First One Should Be A Man
>       no-one else.                       - Manowar
>
>  
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>Ale mailing list
>Ale at ale.org
>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>


From jrickman at gmail.com  Mon Jan 17 14:44:29 2005
From: jrickman at gmail.com (Jonathan Rickman)
Date: Mon Jan 17 14:44:29 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: Exchange Hosting
In-Reply-To: <41EC1112.9020807@mindspring.com>
References: <41EBFF10.4060200@synban.com> <20050117185724.GR2306@rdlg.net>
	<41EC1112.9020807@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <2802c5220501171140487638a6@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 14:25:06 -0500, Dow Hurst <Dow.Hurst at mindspring.com> wrote:
> I thought this was solved by a couple of different projects.  Isn't
> there a complete open source replacement for MSExchange out there?

Short answer: no
Long answer: maybe
Fantasyland answer: absolutely
Real world answer: no

--
Jonathan


From mailinglists at synban.com  Mon Jan 17 14:52:06 2005
From: mailinglists at synban.com (Emil P. Man)
Date: Mon Jan 17 14:52:06 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: Exchange Hosting
In-Reply-To: <41EC1112.9020807@mindspring.com>
References: <41EBFF10.4060200@synban.com> <20050117185724.GR2306@rdlg.net>
	<41EC1112.9020807@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <41EC1281.80408@synban.com>

Dow,

The last I have looked at this there isn't. It seems that the protocol 
is so closed source its not even funny, and there are a couple of 
project out there, where you can host everything on Linux and clone an 
Exchange server, however there are licensing costs involved (per user 
basis) and the protocols they use are also closed source.

Secondly, the BOSS wants everything hosted off - site because we often 
have power outages and we are moving to a new locating. I am slowly 
trying to move more and more things toward linux, and the company is 
slowly moving against me; they want everything pretty much off - site 
(web site, e-mail, etc). I am planing however to put in a VPN server in 
the next few weeks, and that will of course be hosted on the Penguin.

Emil

Dow Hurst wrote:

> I thought this was solved by a couple of different projects.  Isn't 
> there a complete open source replacement for MSExchange out there?
> Dow
>
>
> Robert L. Harris wrote:
>
>> I'm in a similar situation.  The CEO of our company requires the
>> exchange, calendar integration and of course nothing else has this
>> capability.  We use "outerbounds.com" as an ASP.  Generally they work
>> well though they're expanding and have ocasional growth pains.
>>
>>
>> Thus spake Emil P. Man (mailinglists at synban.com):
>>
>>  
>>
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> I know this is a little off topic, and /hiss M$ related, however, I 
>>> need a good recomendation on a local company here in Atlanta, that 
>>> will host M$ exchange for us.
>>>
>>> Anybody have any recomendations?
>>>
>>> I know, I can't go Linux just yet.... Boss REQUIRES M$ Exchange, 
>>> offsite....
>>>
>>> Emil
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Ale mailing list
>>> Ale at ale.org
>>> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>>   
>>
>>
>> :wq!
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>
>> Robert L. Harris                     | GPG Key ID: E344DA3B
>>                                         @ x-hkp://pgp.mit.edu
>> DISCLAIMER:
>>      These are MY OPINIONS             With Dreams To Be A King,
>>       ALONE.  I speak for              First One Should Be A Man
>>       no-one else.                       - Manowar
>>
>>  
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ale mailing list
>> Ale at ale.org
>> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>


From pete.hardie at gmail.com  Mon Jan 17 15:06:08 2005
From: pete.hardie at gmail.com (Pete Hardie)
Date: Mon Jan 17 15:06:08 2005
Subject: [ale] My Next Computer
In-Reply-To: <87f94c37050117094450bfd97c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <31b322400501162034443f1881@mail.gmail.com>
	<41EBB3D1.2000302@3times25.net>
	<31b3224005011706356a530971@mail.gmail.com>
	<41EBD0B2.8030102@3times25.net>
	<31b32240050117073026664273@mail.gmail.com>
	<87f94c37050117094450bfd97c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <31b3224005011712013d093d2a@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 12:44:16 -0500, Greg Freemyer
<greg.freemyer at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey Pete,
>  Warning to all, FAT32 in the 2.4 kernels from SUSE 8.1 were buggy if
> you went past 137 GB.  (I don't know if that is a device, or partition
> issue.  I tested a 250GB disk with a single 250GB partition.  Worked
> fine until I put too much data on it.)
> 
> The 2.6 kernel from SUSE 9.2 seems to work fine in my testing.

I tend to use RedHat, but I'll look for the issue anyway.


> I have one machine with a new Intel P4 MB.  It has a boot from USB
> entry in the bios.  If I have it enabled, the boot process stops if I
> have a thumb-drive in the USB port.  (i.e. The thumb-drive appears to
> be the preferred boot media.)
> 
> I have not tried putting a MBR, etc. on the thumb drive, but I assume
> it would work.

Promising news!

> 
> A bigger issue is that USB 2.0 is slow compared with ATA, and SATA
> will be even faster, so why tie yourself to such a slow technology:
> 
>     usb 2.0 = 480 mbit/sec = 50 MB/sec = slow
>     ATA/100 = 100 MB/sec = okay, and very common
>     ATA/133 = 133 MB/sec = good, but the end of the PATA line
>     SATA/150 = 150 MB/sec = Today's starting point for SATA performance.
>     SATA/600 = 600 MB/sec = the potential future of SATA drives
> 
> Admittedly, all of the above are theoretical burst speeds, but
> real-world speeds are a function of the above.

Good point, and one to consider.  I'm not sure how much effect this
will have on my home use machine - if I can cut the cost of the
upgrade to mobo+video+RAM, I moght be able to fill the board with RAM
and cut the amount of swapping enough to make it reasonable.

> What we do for all of our "movable" PATA drives is use a disk carrier.
>  The ICY-Dock carriers are about $50 each.  With them I can quickly
> move disks around and I still get the native PATA speed.  Since
> hot-swap is not supported on most ATA controllers, we do power down
> the PCs during disk moves.
> 
> SATA cables can be upto 1 meter long, but I don't know if you can get
> external SATA boxes similar to the USB-2 external boxes?

I'm clueless about SATA - does it allow hot-swapping?


-- 
Better Living Through Bitmaps


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 17 15:07:18 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Mon Jan 17 15:07:18 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: Exchange Hosting
In-Reply-To: <2802c5220501171140487638a6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.53.1105992436.18563.ale@ale.org>

:-D 

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Jonathan
Rickman
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 2:40 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] OT: Exchange Hosting

Short answer: no
Long answer: maybe
Fantasyland answer: absolutely
Real world answer: no

--
Jonathan
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.13 - Release Date: 1/16/2005
 

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.13 - Release Date: 1/16/2005
 


From mailinglists at synban.com  Mon Jan 17 15:09:38 2005
From: mailinglists at synban.com (Emil P. Man)
Date: Mon Jan 17 15:09:38 2005
Subject: [ale] My Next Computer
In-Reply-To: <31b3224005011712013d093d2a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <31b322400501162034443f1881@mail.gmail.com>	<41EBB3D1.2000302@3times25.net>	<31b3224005011706356a530971@mail.gmail.com>	<41EBD0B2.8030102@3times25.net>	<31b32240050117073026664273@mail.gmail.com>	<87f94c37050117094450bfd97c@mail.gmail.com>
	<31b3224005011712013d093d2a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41EC1698.1070009@synban.com>

Pete Hardie wrote:

>On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 12:44:16 -0500, Greg Freemyer
><greg.freemyer at gmail.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>Hey Pete,
>> Warning to all, FAT32 in the 2.4 kernels from SUSE 8.1 were buggy if
>>you went past 137 GB.  (I don't know if that is a device, or partition
>>issue.  I tested a 250GB disk with a single 250GB partition.  Worked
>>fine until I put too much data on it.)
>>
>>The 2.6 kernel from SUSE 9.2 seems to work fine in my testing.
>>    
>>
>
>I tend to use RedHat, but I'll look for the issue anyway.
>
>
>  
>
>>I have one machine with a new Intel P4 MB.  It has a boot from USB
>>entry in the bios.  If I have it enabled, the boot process stops if I
>>have a thumb-drive in the USB port.  (i.e. The thumb-drive appears to
>>be the preferred boot media.)
>>
>>I have not tried putting a MBR, etc. on the thumb drive, but I assume
>>it would work.
>>    
>>
>
>Promising news!
>
>  
>
>>A bigger issue is that USB 2.0 is slow compared with ATA, and SATA
>>will be even faster, so why tie yourself to such a slow technology:
>>
>>    usb 2.0 = 480 mbit/sec = 50 MB/sec = slow
>>    ATA/100 = 100 MB/sec = okay, and very common
>>    ATA/133 = 133 MB/sec = good, but the end of the PATA line
>>    SATA/150 = 150 MB/sec = Today's starting point for SATA performance.
>>    SATA/600 = 600 MB/sec = the potential future of SATA drives
>>
>>Admittedly, all of the above are theoretical burst speeds, but
>>real-world speeds are a function of the above.
>>    
>>
>
>Good point, and one to consider.  I'm not sure how much effect this
>will have on my home use machine - if I can cut the cost of the
>upgrade to mobo+video+RAM, I moght be able to fill the board with RAM
>and cut the amount of swapping enough to make it reasonable.
>
>  
>
>>What we do for all of our "movable" PATA drives is use a disk carrier.
>> The ICY-Dock carriers are about $50 each.  With them I can quickly
>>move disks around and I still get the native PATA speed.  Since
>>hot-swap is not supported on most ATA controllers, we do power down
>>the PCs during disk moves.
>>
>>SATA cables can be upto 1 meter long, but I don't know if you can get
>>external SATA boxes similar to the USB-2 external boxes?
>>    
>>
>
>I'm clueless about SATA - does it allow hot-swapping?
>
>
>  
>
Depending on the drive, and on the controller, yes hot-swapping is 
possible...


From mailinglists at synban.com  Mon Jan 17 15:10:32 2005
From: mailinglists at synban.com (Emil P. Man)
Date: Mon Jan 17 15:10:32 2005
Subject: [ale] My Next Computer
In-Reply-To: <31b3224005011712013d093d2a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <31b322400501162034443f1881@mail.gmail.com>	<41EBB3D1.2000302@3times25.net>	<31b3224005011706356a530971@mail.gmail.com>	<41EBD0B2.8030102@3times25.net>	<31b32240050117073026664273@mail.gmail.com>	<87f94c37050117094450bfd97c@mail.gmail.com>
	<31b3224005011712013d093d2a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41EC16A7.80207@synban.com>

Pete Hardie wrote:

>On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 12:44:16 -0500, Greg Freemyer
><greg.freemyer at gmail.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>Hey Pete,
>> Warning to all, FAT32 in the 2.4 kernels from SUSE 8.1 were buggy if
>>you went past 137 GB.  (I don't know if that is a device, or partition
>>issue.  I tested a 250GB disk with a single 250GB partition.  Worked
>>fine until I put too much data on it.)
>>
>>The 2.6 kernel from SUSE 9.2 seems to work fine in my testing.
>>    
>>
>
>I tend to use RedHat, but I'll look for the issue anyway.
>
>
>  
>
>>I have one machine with a new Intel P4 MB.  It has a boot from USB
>>entry in the bios.  If I have it enabled, the boot process stops if I
>>have a thumb-drive in the USB port.  (i.e. The thumb-drive appears to
>>be the preferred boot media.)
>>
>>I have not tried putting a MBR, etc. on the thumb drive, but I assume
>>it would work.
>>    
>>
>
>Promising news!
>
>  
>
>>A bigger issue is that USB 2.0 is slow compared with ATA, and SATA
>>will be even faster, so why tie yourself to such a slow technology:
>>
>>    usb 2.0 = 480 mbit/sec = 50 MB/sec = slow
>>    ATA/100 = 100 MB/sec = okay, and very common
>>    ATA/133 = 133 MB/sec = good, but the end of the PATA line
>>    SATA/150 = 150 MB/sec = Today's starting point for SATA performance.
>>    SATA/600 = 600 MB/sec = the potential future of SATA drives
>>
>>Admittedly, all of the above are theoretical burst speeds, but
>>real-world speeds are a function of the above.
>>    
>>
>
>Good point, and one to consider.  I'm not sure how much effect this
>will have on my home use machine - if I can cut the cost of the
>upgrade to mobo+video+RAM, I moght be able to fill the board with RAM
>and cut the amount of swapping enough to make it reasonable.
>
>  
>
>>What we do for all of our "movable" PATA drives is use a disk carrier.
>> The ICY-Dock carriers are about $50 each.  With them I can quickly
>>move disks around and I still get the native PATA speed.  Since
>>hot-swap is not supported on most ATA controllers, we do power down
>>the PCs during disk moves.
>>
>>SATA cables can be upto 1 meter long, but I don't know if you can get
>>external SATA boxes similar to the USB-2 external boxes?
>>    
>>
>
>I'm clueless about SATA - does it allow hot-swapping?
>
>
>  
>
Depending on the drive, and on the controller, yes hot-swapping is 
possible...


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 17 16:10:17 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon Jan 17 16:10:17 2005
Subject: [ale] Image pattern recognition
Message-ID: <1105995788.9034.6.camel@blue>

I'm looking for some software(?) that does image pattern recognition.
Specifically, I would like to provide a seed image file (i.e. a picture
of a symbol) and have the software search a directory of other images
and return a list of images that contain that symbol.

Any idea on where to start?

Tia,

-Jim P.

 


From drifter at oppositelock.org  Mon Jan 17 16:16:54 2005
From: drifter at oppositelock.org (Sean Kilpatrick)
Date: Mon Jan 17 16:16:54 2005
Subject: [ale] The "ls" command
Message-ID: <200501171612.48252.drifter@oppositelock.org>

ls -l shows me this:

srw-rw-rw-   1 root     root          0 Jan 17 15:38 log
^

What's the "s" stand for?
The others I know:
l = link
d = directory
- = normal file
b = block device
c = character device

Running FC3

Sean

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From joe.sechman at gmail.com  Mon Jan 17 16:29:43 2005
From: joe.sechman at gmail.com (Joe Sechman)
Date: Mon Jan 17 16:29:43 2005
Subject: [ale] The "ls" command
In-Reply-To: <200501171612.48252.drifter@oppositelock.org>
References: <200501171612.48252.drifter@oppositelock.org>
Message-ID: <554fb46050117132532d08ed4@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 16:12:42 -0500, Sean Kilpatrick
<drifter at oppositelock.org> wrote:
> ls -l shows me this:
> 
> srw-rw-rw-   1 root     root          0 Jan 17 15:38 log
> ^
> 
> What's the "s" stand for?
Via google, I arrived at the ALE archive (interestingly
enough)....It's a socket, per this posting:

http://www.ale.org/archive/ale/ale-2002-05/msg00626.html

-- 
Joe Sechman
Unix / Linux Systems Administrator
RLU: #367555
http://counter.li.org


From docx at io.com  Mon Jan 17 16:33:41 2005
From: docx at io.com (Dylan Northrup)
Date: Mon Jan 17 16:33:41 2005
Subject: [ale] The "ls" command
In-Reply-To: <200501171612.48252.drifter@oppositelock.org>
References: <200501171612.48252.drifter@oppositelock.org>
Message-ID: <20050117152502.F12977@fnord.io.com>

A long time ago, (17.01.05), in a galaxy far, far away, Sean Kilpatrick wrote:

:=ls -l shows me this:
:=
:=srw-rw-rw-   1 root     root          0 Jan 17 15:38 log
:=^
:=
:=What's the "s" stand for?
:=The others I know:
:=l = link
:=d = directory
:=- = normal file
:=b = block device
:=c = character device
:=
:=Running FC3

Looking at some cursory googling, 's' seems to indicate a socket.

-- 
Dylan Northrup - docx at io.com - http://www.io.com/~docx/
"Harder to work, harder to strive, hard to be glad to be alive, but it's 
 really worth it if you give it a try." -- Cowboy Mouth, 'Easy'


From dragon at atlantacon.org  Mon Jan 17 16:34:54 2005
From: dragon at atlantacon.org (Drag0n)
Date: Mon Jan 17 16:34:54 2005
Subject: [ale] The "ls" command
In-Reply-To: <200501171612.48252.drifter@oppositelock.org>
References: <200501171612.48252.drifter@oppositelock.org>
Message-ID: <41EC2E4D.9000308@atlantacon.org>

Sticky
    When  the sticky bit is set on a directory, files in that directory may
       be unlinked or renamed only by root or their owner.  Without the 
sticky
       bit,  anyone able to write to the directory can delete or rename 
files.
       The sticky bit is commonly found on directories, such as /tmp, 
that are
       world-writable.

Directly from
man chmod

Drag0n
dragon<at>atlantacon.org

Sean Kilpatrick wrote:

>ls -l shows me this:
>
>srw-rw-rw-   1 root     root          0 Jan 17 15:38 log
>^
>
>What's the "s" stand for?
>The others I know:
>l = link
>d = directory
>- = normal file
>b = block device
>c = character device
>
>Running FC3
>
>Sean
>
>  
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>Ale mailing list
>Ale at ale.org
>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>



From jloden at toughguy.net  Mon Jan 17 16:36:28 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Mon Jan 17 16:36:28 2005
Subject: [ale] ping
Message-ID: <200501171629.04315.jloden@toughguy.net>

I suddenly stopped receiving messages from ALE yesterday, so I wanted to make 
sure I'm still on the list. 
-Jay


From dragon at atlantacon.org  Mon Jan 17 16:37:44 2005
From: dragon at atlantacon.org (Drag0n)
Date: Mon Jan 17 16:37:44 2005
Subject: [ale] The "ls" command
In-Reply-To: <41EC2E4D.9000308@atlantacon.org>
References: <200501171612.48252.drifter@oppositelock.org>
	<41EC2E4D.9000308@atlantacon.org>
Message-ID: <41EC2F04.5090402@atlantacon.org>

oops, right bit, wrong place...

Drag0n wrote:

> Sticky
>    When  the sticky bit is set on a directory, files in that directory 
> may
>       be unlinked or renamed only by root or their owner.  Without the 
> sticky
>       bit,  anyone able to write to the directory can delete or rename 
> files.
>       The sticky bit is commonly found on directories, such as /tmp, 
> that are
>       world-writable.
>
> Directly from
> man chmod
>
> Drag0n
> dragon<at>atlantacon.org
>
> Sean Kilpatrick wrote:
>
>> ls -l shows me this:
>>
>> srw-rw-rw-   1 root     root          0 Jan 17 15:38 log
>> ^
>>
>> What's the "s" stand for?
>> The others I know:
>> l = link
>> d = directory
>> - = normal file
>> b = block device
>> c = character device
>>
>> Running FC3
>>
>> Sean
>>
>>  
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ale mailing list
>> Ale at ale.org
>> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
>



From jsheets at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 17 16:39:05 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Mon Jan 17 16:39:05 2005
Subject: [ale] The "ls" command
In-Reply-To: <41EC2E4D.9000308@atlantacon.org>
Message-ID: <mailman.54.1105997944.18563.ale@ale.org>

Yeah, but this one is in the "file type" column.  While that is true for all
the other columns, it doesn't apply to this one.  In this case, the file is
a socket.

--j 

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Drag0n
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 4:30 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] The "ls" command

Sticky
    When  the sticky bit is set on a directory, files in that directory may
       be unlinked or renamed only by root or their owner.  Without the
sticky
       bit,  anyone able to write to the directory can delete or rename
files.
       The sticky bit is commonly found on directories, such as /tmp, that
are
       world-writable.

Directly from
man chmod

Drag0n
dragon<at>atlantacon.org

Sean Kilpatrick wrote:

>ls -l shows me this:
>
>srw-rw-rw-   1 root     root          0 Jan 17 15:38 log
>^
>
>What's the "s" stand for?
>The others I know:
>l = link
>d = directory
>- = normal file
>b = block device
>c = character device
>
>Running FC3
>
>Sean
>
>  
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>-
>
>_______________________________________________
>Ale mailing list
>Ale at ale.org
>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>


_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

--
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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.13 - Release Date: 1/16/2005
 


From drifter at oppositelock.org  Mon Jan 17 16:53:59 2005
From: drifter at oppositelock.org (Sean Kilpatrick)
Date: Mon Jan 17 16:53:59 2005
Subject: [ale] The "ls" command
In-Reply-To: <554fb46050117132532d08ed4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200501171612.48252.drifter@oppositelock.org>
	<554fb46050117132532d08ed4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200501171649.35017.drifter@oppositelock.org>

On Monday 17 January 2005 04:25 pm, Joe Sechman wrote:
| Via google, I arrived at the ALE archive (interestingly
| enough)....It's a socket, per this posting:


Thanks.
That would never have occurred to me.

Sean

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From jsheets at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 17 17:00:04 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Mon Jan 17 17:00:04 2005
Subject: [ale] ping
In-Reply-To: <200501171629.04315.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <mailman.55.1105999203.18563.ale@ale.org>

Nah.  You're deleted.

LOL! 

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Jay
Loden
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 4:29 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: [ale] ping

I suddenly stopped receiving messages from ALE yesterday, so I wanted to
make sure I'm still on the list. 
-Jay
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.13 - Release Date: 1/16/2005
 

-- 
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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.13 - Release Date: 1/16/2005
 


From rb211 at tds.net  Mon Jan 17 17:05:59 2005
From: rb211 at tds.net (William Bagwell)
Date: Mon Jan 17 17:05:59 2005
Subject: [ale] The "ls" command
In-Reply-To: <554fb46050117132532d08ed4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200501171612.48252.drifter@oppositelock.org>
	<554fb46050117132532d08ed4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200501171701.17921.rb211@tds.net>

On Monday 17 January 2005 04:25 pm, Joe Sechman wrote:

> Via google, I arrived at the ALE archive (interestingly
> enough)....

That has happened to me several times. Usually only when searching 
Google /linux, still neat we rank so high. 
-- 
William


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Mon Jan 17 17:29:39 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Mon Jan 17 17:29:39 2005
Subject: [ale] The "ls" command
In-Reply-To: <41EC2E4D.9000308@atlantacon.org>
References: <200501171612.48252.drifter@oppositelock.org>
	<41EC2E4D.9000308@atlantacon.org>
Message-ID: <41EC3B59.3070203@3times25.net>

Drag0n wrote:
> Sticky
>    When  the sticky bit is set on a directory, files in that directory may
>       be unlinked or renamed only by root or their owner.  Without the 
> sticky
>       bit,  anyone able to write to the directory can delete or rename 
> files.
>       The sticky bit is commonly found on directories, such as /tmp, 
> that are
>       world-writable.
> 
> Directly from
> man chmod

Might check that again, sticky bit is 't' as is likely seen on your /tmp

Sticky bit is a perm indicator whereas the first character of the perms 
is file type.  's' would be a socket

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Mon Jan 17 17:31:48 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Mon Jan 17 17:31:48 2005
Subject: [ale] The "ls" command
In-Reply-To: <200501171649.35017.drifter@oppositelock.org>
References: <200501171612.48252.drifter@oppositelock.org>	<554fb46050117132532d08ed4@mail.gmail.com>
	<200501171649.35017.drifter@oppositelock.org>
Message-ID: <41EC3BDA.2080808@3times25.net>

Sean Kilpatrick wrote:
> On Monday 17 January 2005 04:25 pm, Joe Sechman wrote:
> | Via google, I arrived at the ALE archive (interestingly
> | enough)....It's a socket, per this posting:
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> That would never have occurred to me.

Also, if you would run the file command against the file that has this 
listing you will see that it is in fact a socket:

ls -l orbit-esoteric/linc-8c6-0-2dd1162fdedb2

srwxr-xr-x  1 esoteric users 0 2004-12-14 11:25 
orbit-esoteric/linc-8c6-0-2dd1162fdedb2

file orbit-esoteric/linc-8c6-0-2dd1162fdedb2

orbit-esoteric/linc-8c6-0-2dd1162fdedb2: socket

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 17 17:33:36 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Mon Jan 17 17:33:36 2005
Subject: [ale] The "ls" command
In-Reply-To: <41EC3B59.3070203@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <mailman.56.1106001215.18563.ale@ale.org>

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, Geoff, but "s" is a socket when only in the
filetype column.  When in one of the other columns, it's a "sticky" bit.
(i.e. chmod 4755, or chmod 2755).

Am I mistaken on that naming convention?

--Jerald 

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Geoffrey
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 5:25 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] The "ls" command

Drag0n wrote:
> Sticky
>    When  the sticky bit is set on a directory, files in that directory may
>       be unlinked or renamed only by root or their owner.  Without the 
> sticky
>       bit,  anyone able to write to the directory can delete or rename 
> files.
>       The sticky bit is commonly found on directories, such as /tmp, 
> that are
>       world-writable.
> 
> Directly from
> man chmod

Might check that again, sticky bit is 't' as is likely seen on your /tmp

Sticky bit is a perm indicator whereas the first character of the perms is
file type.  's' would be a socket

--
Until later, Geoffrey
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.13 - Release Date: 1/16/2005
 

-- 
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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.13 - Release Date: 1/16/2005
 


From FishR at bellsouth.net  Mon Jan 17 17:39:01 2005
From: FishR at bellsouth.net (Ryan Fish)
Date: Mon Jan 17 17:39:01 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: Exchange Hosting
References: <41EBFF10.4060200@synban.com>
Message-ID: <01c201c4fce5$40e2eb20$6603a8c0@win2kpro1>

The company I work for might be able to help you out.

Virtual Management Technologies
http://www.vmtech.net
770-751-1110 x3
Sales at VMTech.net

No idea on pricing, etc. though...

-Ryan


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Emil P. Man" <mailinglists at synban.com>
To: <ale at ale.org>
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 1:08 PM
Subject: [ale] OT: Exchange Hosting


> Hello all,
>
> I know this is a little off topic, and /hiss M$ related, however, I need
> a good recomendation on a local company here in Atlanta, that will host
> M$ exchange for us.
>
> Anybody have any recomendations?
>
> I know, I can't go Linux just yet.... Boss REQUIRES M$ Exchange,
offsite....
>
> Emil
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>



From esoteric at 3times25.net  Mon Jan 17 17:49:24 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Mon Jan 17 17:49:24 2005
Subject: [ale] The "ls" command
Message-ID: <41EC3FFF.1090208@3times25.net>

Jerald Sheets wrote:
> Now, correct me if I'm wrong, Geoff, but "s" is a socket when only in the
> filetype column.  When in one of the other columns, it's a "sticky" bit.
> (i.e. chmod 4755, or chmod 2755).

You are correct that s is a socket only in the filetype column, but s in 
the perms column is set uid.

> Am I mistaken on that naming convention?

man chmod:

The letters `rwxXstugo' select the new  permissions  for  the  affected
users:  read  (r),  write (w), execute (or access for directories) (x), 
execute only if the file is a directory or already has execute  permis-
sion  for  some user (X), set user or group ID on execution (s), sticky
(t), the permissions granted to the user who owns  the  file  (u),  the
permissions  granted to other users who are members of the file's group
(g), and the permissions granted to users that are in  neither  of  the
two preceding categories (o).

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 17 17:52:42 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Mon Jan 17 17:52:42 2005
Subject: [ale] The "ls" command
In-Reply-To: <41EC3FFF.1090208@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <mailman.57.1106002362.18563.ale@ale.org>

Ah.

I've called that "sticky" for almost 15 years.

Learn something every day.

--J 

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Geoffrey
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 5:45 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] The "ls" command

Jerald Sheets wrote:
> Now, correct me if I'm wrong, Geoff, but "s" is a socket when only in 
> the filetype column.  When in one of the other columns, it's a "sticky"
bit.
> (i.e. chmod 4755, or chmod 2755).

You are correct that s is a socket only in the filetype column, but s in the
perms column is set uid.

> Am I mistaken on that naming convention?

man chmod:

The letters `rwxXstugo' select the new  permissions  for  the  affected
users:  read  (r),  write (w), execute (or access for directories) (x),
execute only if the file is a directory or already has execute  permis- sion
for  some user (X), set user or group ID on execution (s), sticky (t), the
permissions granted to the user who owns  the  file  (u),  the permissions
granted to other users who are members of the file's group (g), and the
permissions granted to users that are in  neither  of  the two preceding
categories (o).

--
Until later, Geoffrey
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.13 - Release Date: 1/16/2005
 

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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.13 - Release Date: 1/16/2005
 


From greg.freemyer at gmail.com  Mon Jan 17 17:58:42 2005
From: greg.freemyer at gmail.com (Greg Freemyer)
Date: Mon Jan 17 17:58:42 2005
Subject: [ale] The "ls" command
In-Reply-To: <-4263439431448503174@unknownmsgid>
References: <41EC3FFF.1090208@3times25.net> <-4263439431448503174@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <87f94c37050117145426978731@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 17:48:38 -0500, Jerald Sheets <jsheets at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Ah.
> 
> I've called that "sticky" for almost 15 years.
> 
> Learn something every day.
> 
> --J
> 
So what did you mean by "sticky".  The 't' flag indicates it is not
deleted from ram, just because the app terminates.

'vi' might be a good app for me to make sticky because I'm in and out
of it all the time.

Greg


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 17 18:01:56 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Mon Jan 17 18:01:56 2005
Subject: [ale] The "ls" command
In-Reply-To: <87f94c37050117145426978731@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.58.1106002915.18563.ale@ale.org>

Nah... 

The term sticky was coined to mean that the perms of the file (based on
location of the sticky bit) "sticks" to you as long as you use that file,
but you don't have that permission any other time...the precise reason SUID
and SGID files are a bad idea.

--j 

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Greg
Freemyer
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 5:55 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] The "ls" command

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 17:48:38 -0500, Jerald Sheets <jsheets at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Ah.
> 
> I've called that "sticky" for almost 15 years.
> 
> Learn something every day.
> 
> --J
> 
So what did you mean by "sticky".  The 't' flag indicates it is not deleted
from ram, just because the app terminates.

'vi' might be a good app for me to make sticky because I'm in and out of it
all the time.

Greg
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

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From esoteric at 3times25.net  Mon Jan 17 18:06:02 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Mon Jan 17 18:06:02 2005
Subject: [ale] The "ls" command
Message-ID: <41EC43DC.8010700@3times25.net>

Jerald Sheets wrote:
> Ah.
> 
> I've called that "sticky" for almost 15 years.

Sticky bit basically says you can't remove a file from that directory 
unless you own it.

For example, under /tmp which has the following perms:

drwxrwxrwt   12 root     root         4096 Jan 17 17:45 /tmp

there is the following file:

-rwxrwxrwx    1 root     root        98761 Jan 12 10:47 datetime.c

Note the permissions.  Now I try to remove it as a normal user:

rhws/tmp> rm datetime.c
rm: cannot remove `datetime.c': Operation not permitted

But, I can edit the file if the permissions indicate as such.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From stillwaxin at gmail.com  Mon Jan 17 18:07:02 2005
From: stillwaxin at gmail.com (Michael Still)
Date: Mon Jan 17 18:07:02 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: Exchange Hosting
In-Reply-To: <41EBFF10.4060200@synban.com>
References: <41EBFF10.4060200@synban.com>
Message-ID: <12bbc01c0501171501cbd1dbe@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 13:08:16 -0500, Emil P. Man <mailinglists at synban.com> wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> I know this is a little off topic, and /hiss M$ related, however, I need
> a good recomendation on a local company here in Atlanta, that will host
> M$ exchange for us.
> 
> Anybody have any recomendations?
> 
> I know, I can't go Linux just yet.... Boss REQUIRES M$ Exchange, offsite....
> 
> Emil

e^deltacom and vericenter are two in Atlanta you can look at.  I know
e^deltacom is a nice place and has good people.  Vericenter is at
MetroNexus which I don't know much about. I don't think you'll find
that either are very cheap but offer quality service.

I'm sure there are plenty of others but these are two that I know off
the top of my head that should be able to do this.


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Mon Jan 17 18:08:52 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Mon Jan 17 18:08:52 2005
Subject: [ale] The "ls" command
In-Reply-To: <87f94c37050117145426978731@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41EC3FFF.1090208@3times25.net> <-4263439431448503174@unknownmsgid>
	<87f94c37050117145426978731@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41EC448C.1070508@3times25.net>

Greg Freemyer wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 17:48:38 -0500, Jerald Sheets <jsheets at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>>Ah.
>>
>>I've called that "sticky" for almost 15 years.
>>
>>Learn something every day.
>>
>>--J
>>
> 
> So what did you mean by "sticky".  The 't' flag indicates it is not
> deleted from ram, just because the app terminates.
> 
> 'vi' might be a good app for me to make sticky because I'm in and out
> of it all the time.

Well, I guess this calls for a full explanation.  It depends on what 
kind of file it is.  Wait, this is better, check this link out:

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/hp/hpux-faq/section-70.html

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Mon Jan 17 18:10:16 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Mon Jan 17 18:10:16 2005
Subject: [ale] The "ls" command
Message-ID: <41EC44DA.8070809@3times25.net>

Jerald Sheets wrote:
> Nah... 
> 
> The term sticky was coined to mean that the perms of the file (based on
> location of the sticky bit) "sticks" to you as long as you use that file,
> but you don't have that permission any other time...the precise reason SUID
> and SGID files are a bad idea.

This may be something you picked up somewhere, but it's not the correct 
definition of a sticky bit.  See my last post.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jloden at toughguy.net  Mon Jan 17 19:30:34 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Mon Jan 17 19:30:34 2005
Subject: [ale] ping
In-Reply-To: <20050117215607.9DE1C134C4BF@mx3.toughguy.net>
References: <20050117215607.9DE1C134C4BF@mx3.toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <200501171924.09063.jloden@toughguy.net>

Evidently, for no apparent reason, fetchmail stopped running on my server, so 
my messages weren't being forwarded. 

-Jay

On Monday 17 January 2005 4:55, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> Nah.  You're deleted.
>
> LOL!


From jloden at toughguy.net  Mon Jan 17 19:35:36 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Mon Jan 17 19:35:36 2005
Subject: [ale] Mount an ipod
In-Reply-To: <5A798258-6840-11D9-8C8B-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>
References: <5A798258-6840-11D9-8C8B-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <200501171929.10913.jloden@toughguy.net>

You can mount it, as far as I know, you just have to make sure you mount it 
in /mnt/ipod and that the permissions are ok.  However, I do not have an HFS 
iPod, so I can't be sure about that part.  

As long as it mounts ok, in the right directory, gtkpod should be ok. I had 
trouble with this on Mandrake too, until I got the permissions right in fstab 
to mount the drive for an ordinary user. 

-Jay


On Sunday 16 January 2005 11:29, Mark Wright wrote:
> Does anyone know if I can mount an HFS (mac) format ipod connected via
> USB on mandrake 9.2 and have GTKpod use it.
>
> I have made a few attempts.  I may need to link /dev/sdb to /mnt/ipod.
>
> My real issue is that GTKpod is looking for
> /mnt/ipod/ipod_Control/iTunes/iTunesDB.  The GTKpod instructions say
> that there are at least two disks that have to mount on the ipod.  For
> example sdb1 would be the OS and sdb2 the music DB.  It is the music DB
> that GTKpod needs.  All I see is the result of /proc/scsi/scsi shows:
>
> Host: scsi1  = apple ipod Direct-access
>
> And when I do eject /dev/sdb my ipod unmounts properly.
>
> Any ideas?
>
>
> Thanks....Mark
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From dcorbin at machturtle.com  Mon Jan 17 19:53:02 2005
From: dcorbin at machturtle.com (David Corbin)
Date: Mon Jan 17 19:53:02 2005
Subject: [ale] ping
In-Reply-To: <200501171924.09063.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <20050117215607.9DE1C134C4BF@mx3.toughguy.net>
	<200501171924.09063.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <200501171948.47637.dcorbin@machturtle.com>

NAGIOS.  All such services should be monitored...


On Monday 17 January 2005 07:24 pm, Jay Loden wrote:
> Evidently, for no apparent reason, fetchmail stopped running on my server,
> so my messages weren't being forwarded.
>
> -Jay
>
> On Monday 17 January 2005 4:55, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> > Nah.  You're deleted.
> >
> > LOL!
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 17 19:54:39 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Mon Jan 17 19:54:39 2005
Subject: [ale] ping
In-Reply-To: <200501171948.47637.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.59.1106009679.18563.ale@ale.org>

Big Brother too... 

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of David
Corbin
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 7:49 PM
To: ale at ale.org
Subject: Re: [ale] ping

NAGIOS.  All such services should be monitored...


On Monday 17 January 2005 07:24 pm, Jay Loden wrote:
> Evidently, for no apparent reason, fetchmail stopped running on my 
> server, so my messages weren't being forwarded.
>
> -Jay
>
> On Monday 17 January 2005 4:55, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> > Nah.  You're deleted.
> >
> > LOL!
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.13 - Release Date: 1/16/2005
 

-- 
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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.13 - Release Date: 1/16/2005
 


From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Mon Jan 17 19:59:48 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Mon Jan 17 19:59:48 2005
Subject: [ale] Dump and Restore on ext3 not ext2
Message-ID: <20050118005706.GB31106@moses.outpostsentinel.com>

I'm having some corruption issues with dump and restore.  I have
several machines and I use the utilities to transfer backups to them.
These are all development snapshots we are testing.

Here is how I make the dump:
dump -0 -j9 -f /tmp/SAM/dump /opt/SAM

Here is how I restore:
restore -rf /tmp/SAM.dump

I use scp to transfer the dumps.  All filesystems are ext3 not ext2 I
know the dump man pages mention nothing of ext3 so I'm not sure if that
is related.  After the transfer and restore it is possible for files to 
be corrupted.  One of the tomcat xml files were filed with '\0' instead
of XML text.  I'm totally clueless as to how that happened.  I am doing
the dump on a live filesystem.  Could that would be a problem?

Chris


From kaboom at gatech.edu  Mon Jan 17 20:29:05 2005
From: kaboom at gatech.edu (Chris Ricker)
Date: Mon Jan 17 20:29:05 2005
Subject: [ale] The "ls" command
In-Reply-To: <87f94c37050117145426978731@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41EC3FFF.1090208@3times25.net> <-4263439431448503174@unknownmsgid>
	<87f94c37050117145426978731@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0501172019240.21819@redfish.gatech.edu>

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005, Greg Freemyer wrote:

> So what did you mean by "sticky".  The 't' flag indicates it is not
> deleted from ram, just because the app terminates.
> 
> 'vi' might be a good app for me to make sticky because I'm in and out
> of it all the time.

You're on the right track with the origins of the term 'sticky'. However,
that feature is not implemented on Linux. The sticky bit on files has no
meaning on Linux, and its meaning, if any, on other modern Unixen varies
widely....

later,
chris


From ale1 at cybertechcafe.net  Mon Jan 17 20:53:18 2005
From: ale1 at cybertechcafe.net (Nathan J. Underwood)
Date: Mon Jan 17 20:53:18 2005
Subject: [ale] OT -> Need help troubleshooting qmail
In-Reply-To: <41E9886E.2020206@cybertechcafe.net>
References: <41E9886E.2020206@cybertechcafe.net>
Message-ID: <41EC6B45.20001@cybertechcafe.net>

So anyways, these two penguins walk into a bar...

Nathan J. Underwood
Cyber Tech Cafe' <><
http://www.cybertechcafe.net

Nathan J. Underwood wrote:
> Over the past 3 days, I've started getting a TON of 'failure notices' 
> that report to have been originally destined for domains that I host. 
> The server that these domains have in common is a RH9 machine running 
> the 'Plesk' version of qmail 
> (psa-qmail-rblsmtpd-0.70-rh9.build71041118.17 and 
> psa-qmail-1.03-rh9.build71041124.11).  The messages that I'm receiving 
> are 'bounced bounces', and I'm really not sure where to start.  I've 
> captured 218 of them, but can't see any real similarities between them 
> (source IP, originating address [most look like generated addresses]). 
> All of the original messages appear to be SPAM.  I've verified that my 
> server isn't relaying (telnet to the SMTP port, try to send mail to an 
> outside domain from an outside domain, and that doesn't work [doesn't 
> relay]).  I've enclosed a copy of one of the messages below.  Anyone got 
> any ideas on 1) what could be causing this, or 2) what I may be able to 
> do to stop it?
> 
> --== Message ==--
> 
> mailto:mallory at gocubs.org
> Hi. This is the qmail-send program at <my server>.
> I tried to deliver a bounce message to this address, but the bounce 
> bounced!
> 
> <mallory at gocubs.org>:
> 216.200.145.51 does not like recipient.
> Remote host said: 554 Recipient Rejected: Not accepting mail for this 
> account : Account Inactive
> Giving up on 216.200.145.51.
> 
> --- Below this line is the original bounce.
> 
> Return-Path: <>
> Received: (qmail 1767 invoked for bounce); 15 Jan 2005 21:02:33 -0000
> Date: 15 Jan 2005 21:02:33 -0000
> From: MAILER-DAEMON@<my server>
> To: mallory at gocubs.org
> Subject: failure notice
> 
> Hi. This is the qmail-send program at <my server>.
> I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following 
> addresses.
> This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.
> 
> <marino at swsltd.com>:
> This address no longer accepts mail.
> 
> <ledbetter at swsltd.com>:
> This address no longer accepts mail.
> 
> <robison at swsltd.com>:
> This address no longer accepts mail.
> 
> <lacey at swsltd.com>:
> This address no longer accepts mail.
> 
> <elmore at swsltd.com>:
> This address no longer accepts mail.
> 
> <moyet at swsltd.com>:
> This address no longer accepts mail.
> 
> <davila at swsltd.com>:
> This address no longer accepts mail.
> 
> <godwin at swsltd.com>:
> This address no longer accepts mail.
> 
> <winn at swsltd.com>:
> This address no longer accepts mail.
> 
> --- Below this line is a copy of the message.
> 
> Return-Path: <mallory at gocubs.org>
> Received: (qmail 1475 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2005 21:02:08 -0000
> Received: from unknown (HELO gocubs.org) (222.65.83.32)
>   by <my server> with SMTP; 15 Jan 2005 21:02:02 -0000
> Message-ID: <95360181.37DC017 at gocubs.org>
> Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 07:17:28 +1000
> From: "clark needam" <mallory at gocubs.org>
> User-Agent: Rodriquezmail v9.8
> X-Accept-Language: en-us
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> To: "geraldo tijerina" <marino at swsltd.com>
> Subject:   just come and see the valuable tips and detailed information 
> clare
> Content-Type: text/plain;
>     charset="us-ascii"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> 
> durgunoglu  dbolskicg
> curpos  deficit-reduction
> 
> createclients  draculas  fltgetnum a3 esensitivity  cjschdgqf
> 
> express mailing supply. get the fr!eebie for your prescriipttion
> bargains on meds for sexual health, Paain relief, an at xiety control,
> anti-Depresion, obesity and more others.
> confront the deal http://x.net.plantationcargo.com/?65q/rtytkcvhkx
> 
> 
> 
> 
> who was doin' swelltill he started playing
> 
> 
> 
> Assure yourself this I'll doI will be true
> 
> 
> 


-- 
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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.13 - Release Date: 1/16/2005


From jkf at wolfnet.org  Mon Jan 17 22:04:57 2005
From: jkf at wolfnet.org (Jason Fritcher)
Date: Mon Jan 17 22:04:57 2005
Subject: [ale] Cheap dialtone for DSL
Message-ID: <41EC7BC5.5070803@wolfnet.org>

Hello,

This isn't exactly Linux related, but there seems to be a lot of people here
with DSL provisioning experience, so I thought I'd throw this out and see
what people thought.

I'm currently using Comcast for cable modem service, but want to drop them
for DSL so I can move my server back home. I had a nice chat with a sales
rep at SpeedFactory and found out that DSL service is available through a
remote terminal where I live. So, I'm excited about getting DSL setup, but
there is a small wrinkle in that I don't have a landline. I have Vonage and
a cell phone for when I need to make calls.

I've been round and round with people at BellSouth about how cheaply I can
get a plain, no frills dial tone, but the cheapest they seem to be willing
to offer is almost $30/mo. For a phone line that won't be making/receiving
any calls, that is absolutely ridiculous. One customer no-service rep
actually tried arguing with me that DSL requires a flat rate voice account,
otherwise I'd end up with a bazillion dollar phone bill for usage charges.
To say the least, I'm quite frustrated by the level of contempt and
disservice coming from BS. If there wasn't already a hearing going with the
GPSC, I'd be tempted to start filing complaints with them.

This reminds me of how the cable companies charge you a "no tv tax" for
getting cable modem service but not getting cable tv service. Except in this
case, BS doesn't even bother with the lube as they stick it to ya. I talked
to 3 different customer no-service reps, and 2 different managers about why
BS quit offering metered accounts and how $30/mo is totally insane for
someone who needs dial tone to satisfy a money grubbing requirement to
getting DSL. Especially when exactly 0 minutes/mo will be used on that voice
line. I'm not going to get started on dry DSL. :)

</rant>

Sorry about venting so much, but this has been really frustrating, and all I
want is to find the cheapest dial tone I can get to get a DSL line
provisioned. I'd prefer not to pay more than $10/mo before taxes and other
crap fees. Anyone know of any CLECs offering cheap voice lines? :)

Thanks for your time.

--
Jason Fritcher
jkf at wolfnet.org
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From james at sumners.ath.cx  Mon Jan 17 22:14:19 2005
From: james at sumners.ath.cx (James Sumners)
Date: Mon Jan 17 22:14:19 2005
Subject: [ale] Cheap dialtone for DSL
In-Reply-To: <41EC7BC5.5070803@wolfnet.org>
References: <41EC7BC5.5070803@wolfnet.org>
Message-ID: <20050117221009.0b6eb40f@sumners.ath.cx>

Speed Factory now accepts the following phone service providers: Bellsouth, MCI
Metro, ITC Deltacom, LecStar Telecom, Talk America. The last one seems to have
some fair plans as opposed to Bellsouth. If Speed Factory can't provide dry
copper by the time I have to renew my contract (in August) then I will probably
switch phone providers at the same time so that I don't have to pay a
reprovisioning cost. Speed Factory will be offering dry copper as soon as
Bellsouth lets them have access to it.

If you can avoid using Bellsouth and still get Speed Factory I highly recommend
that you do so. They, Speed Factory, provide excellent service as has been
stated on the list so many times.

-- 
James Sumners
http://ug.dyndns.org/~jsumners/

"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological
personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the
corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a
condition to which they are quickly addicted."

Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto)
CH:D 59


From jkf at wolfnet.org  Mon Jan 17 22:42:30 2005
From: jkf at wolfnet.org (Jason Fritcher)
Date: Mon Jan 17 22:42:30 2005
Subject: [ale] Cheap dialtone for DSL
In-Reply-To: <20050117221009.0b6eb40f@sumners.ath.cx>
References: <41EC7BC5.5070803@wolfnet.org>
	<20050117221009.0b6eb40f@sumners.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <41EC845B.7070309@wolfnet.org>

James Sumners wrote:
> Speed Factory now accepts the following phone service providers: Bellsouth, MCI
> Metro, ITC Deltacom, LecStar Telecom, Talk America. The last one seems to have
> some fair plans as opposed to Bellsouth.

Thanks for the list. Did I miss that on Speed Factory's website?

> If Speed Factory can't provide dry
> copper by the time I have to renew my contract (in August) then I will probably
> switch phone providers at the same time so that I don't have to pay a
> reprovisioning cost. Speed Factory will be offering dry copper as soon as
> Bellsouth lets them have access to it.

That is what I would prefer to have. What peeves me is the sales rep I
talked to at Speed Factory mentioned that Bellsouth has a court order
against them to provide dry copper DSL, but they're refusing to comply.

> If you can avoid using Bellsouth and still get Speed Factory I highly recommend
> that you do so. They, Speed Factory, provide excellent service as has been
> stated on the list so many times.

I can't remember how many times I've seen glowing responses about Speed
Factory on this list. That's why I called them first. :) Although, I'm
getting the feeling I'm just going to have to bend over and get a flat rate
line that I don't want or have a definite need for besides DSL.

Thanks,

--
Jason Fritcher
jkf at wolfnet.org
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From pete.hardie at gmail.com  Mon Jan 17 22:45:34 2005
From: pete.hardie at gmail.com (Pete Hardie)
Date: Mon Jan 17 22:45:34 2005
Subject: [ale] Cheap dialtone for DSL
In-Reply-To: <41EC7BC5.5070803@wolfnet.org>
References: <41EC7BC5.5070803@wolfnet.org>
Message-ID: <31b32240050117194184b4145@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 22:00:21 -0500, Jason Fritcher <jkf at wolfnet.org> wrote:

> I've been round and round with people at BellSouth about how cheaply I can
> get a plain, no frills dial tone, but the cheapest they seem to be willing
> to offer is almost $30/mo. For a phone line that won't be making/receiving
> any calls, that is absolutely ridiculous. One customer no-service rep
> actually tried arguing with me that DSL requires a flat rate voice account,
> otherwise I'd end up with a bazillion dollar phone bill for usage charges.
> To say the least, I'm quite frustrated by the level of contempt and
> disservice coming from BS. If there wasn't already a hearing going with the
> GPSC, I'd be tempted to start filing complaints with them.

ISTR seeing mention of "naked DSL" being available - DSL sans
dialtone.  Perhaps this is one of those things that they will never
offer, unless you beat it out of them.



-- 
Better Living Through Bitmaps


From jkf at wolfnet.org  Mon Jan 17 23:01:36 2005
From: jkf at wolfnet.org (Jason Fritcher)
Date: Mon Jan 17 23:01:36 2005
Subject: [ale] Cheap dialtone for DSL
In-Reply-To: <31b32240050117194184b4145@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41EC7BC5.5070803@wolfnet.org>
	<31b32240050117194184b4145@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41EC88A2.1010209@wolfnet.org>

Pete Hardie wrote:
> ISTR seeing mention of "naked DSL" being available - DSL sans
> dialtone.

All the arguments I've seen about naked DSL is the fact that they can't
recover the loop charges from the ISP. I don't see what the problem is. When
they allow a CLEC access to an unbundled loop for voice, the charge to the
CLEC includes their loop charges. Why can't they do the same thing with
unbundled DSL? I've seen references to other ILECs this is available from,
and there is a negligible, $5-10/mo, increase for the loop charges.

 > Perhaps this is one of those things that they will never
 > offer, unless you beat it out of them.

Heh, where's the clue-by-four? :)

--
Jason Fritcher
jkf at wolfnet.org
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From scherrey at proteus-tech.com  Mon Jan 17 23:47:49 2005
From: scherrey at proteus-tech.com (Benjamin Scherrey)
Date: Mon Jan 17 23:47:49 2005
Subject: [ale] Cheap dialtone for DSL
In-Reply-To: <41EC88A2.1010209@wolfnet.org>
References: <41EC7BC5.5070803@wolfnet.org>	<31b32240050117194184b4145@mail.gmail.com>
	<41EC88A2.1010209@wolfnet.org>
Message-ID: <41EC935B.2060503@proteus-tech.com>

I've got naked dsl with Speakeasy.net. Speedfactory apparently can't 
offer this yet but if Speakeasy is available in your area then you 
should be good to go. Works great and I only pay a few bucks for the 
right not to have a land line phone. The rest is cell & Vonage.

    -- Ben Scherrey

Jason Fritcher wrote:

> Pete Hardie wrote:
>
>> ISTR seeing mention of "naked DSL" being available - DSL sans
>> dialtone.
>
>
> All the arguments I've seen about naked DSL is the fact that they can't
> recover the loop charges from the ISP. I don't see what the problem 
> is. When
> they allow a CLEC access to an unbundled loop for voice, the charge to 
> the
> CLEC includes their loop charges. Why can't they do the same thing with
> unbundled DSL? I've seen references to other ILECs this is available 
> from,
> and there is a negligible, $5-10/mo, increase for the loop charges.
>
> > Perhaps this is one of those things that they will never
> > offer, unless you beat it out of them.
>
> Heh, where's the clue-by-four? :)
>


From jkf at wolfnet.org  Tue Jan 18 05:07:24 2005
From: jkf at wolfnet.org (Jason Fritcher)
Date: Tue Jan 18 05:07:24 2005
Subject: [ale] Cheap dialtone for DSL
In-Reply-To: <41EC935B.2060503@proteus-tech.com>
References: <41EC7BC5.5070803@wolfnet.org>	<31b32240050117194184b4145@mail.gmail.com>	<41EC88A2.1010209@wolfnet.org>
	<41EC935B.2060503@proteus-tech.com>
Message-ID: <41ECB618.7080301@wolfnet.org>

Benjamin Scherrey wrote:
> I've got naked dsl with Speakeasy.net. Speedfactory apparently can't
> offer this yet but if Speakeasy is available in your area then you
> should be good to go. Works great and I only pay a few bucks for the
> right not to have a land line phone. The rest is cell & Vonage.

That is very compelling. I didn't realize Speakeasy was offering that. I
think last time I looked at them ~6 months ago, they weren't. I love the
fact they offer a semi-cheap account with 768Kbps upstream, but wish the
download was a little faster.

--
Jason Fritcher
jkf at wolfnet.org
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From esoteric at 3times25.net  Tue Jan 18 06:04:00 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Tue Jan 18 06:04:00 2005
Subject: [ale] Cheap dialtone for DSL
In-Reply-To: <41EC7BC5.5070803@wolfnet.org>
References: <41EC7BC5.5070803@wolfnet.org>
Message-ID: <41ECEC18.9030009@3times25.net>

Jason Fritcher wrote:

> I've been round and round with people at BellSouth about how cheaply I can
> get a plain, no frills dial tone, but the cheapest they seem to be willing
> to offer is almost $30/mo. For a phone line that won't be making/receiving
> any calls, that is absolutely ridiculous. One customer no-service rep
> actually tried arguing with me that DSL requires a flat rate voice account,
> otherwise I'd end up with a bazillion dollar phone bill for usage charges.
> To say the least, I'm quite frustrated by the level of contempt and
> disservice coming from BS. If there wasn't already a hearing going with the
> GPSC, I'd be tempted to start filing complaints with them.

I'd contact the PSC anyway.  I also wouldn't tell them on the phone the 
purpose of the line.  Simply tell them you're looking for a low cost 
phone line.  $30 is real high.  I'm paying about that much for my one 
line that has all the frills. (all the calling services as well as 
privacy director).

> Sorry about venting so much, but this has been really frustrating, and 
> all I
> want is to find the cheapest dial tone I can get to get a DSL line
> provisioned. I'd prefer not to pay more than $10/mo before taxes and other
> crap fees. Anyone know of any CLECs offering cheap voice lines? :)

I'm afraid BellSouth is simply going to screw themselves.  Between their 
customer dis-service and raping customers with fees, they'll not likely 
realize until it's too late as folks continue to jump ship.  There 
solution is not unlike Microsoft.  Force people to stay with you, when 
they try to leave, charge them more...

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Tue Jan 18 06:08:16 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Tue Jan 18 06:08:16 2005
Subject: [ale] Cheap dialtone for DSL
In-Reply-To: <20050117221009.0b6eb40f@sumners.ath.cx>
References: <41EC7BC5.5070803@wolfnet.org>
	<20050117221009.0b6eb40f@sumners.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <41ECED29.9010408@3times25.net>

James Sumners wrote:
> Speed Factory now accepts the following phone service providers:
> Bellsouth, MCI Metro, ITC Deltacom, LecStar Telecom, Talk America.
> The last one seems to have some fair plans as opposed to Bellsouth.
> If Speed Factory can't provide dry copper by the time I have to renew
> my contract (in August) then I will probably switch phone providers
> at the same time so that I don't have to pay a reprovisioning cost.
> Speed Factory will be offering dry copper as soon as Bellsouth lets
> them have access to it.

The problem with Speed Factory providing dry copper is that BellSouth 
has to tell the controlling government agency (can't recall which three 
lettes it was) when they (Speed Factory) is ready.  Same old crap.  I'm 
considering having another land line installed by another provider just 
so I can get away from BellSouth.  I'll even pay more for less service. 
  That's how pissed I am about the way BellSouth has treated me.  DO YOU 
HEAR ME YOU BLOOD SUCKING MONOPOLY!!  Sorry, couldn't help it.

> If you can avoid using Bellsouth and still get Speed Factory I highly
> recommend that you do so. They, Speed Factory, provide excellent
> service as has been stated on the list so many times.

Absolutely agree.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From james at sumners.ath.cx  Tue Jan 18 07:44:50 2005
From: james at sumners.ath.cx (James Sumners)
Date: Tue Jan 18 07:44:50 2005
Subject: [ale] Cheap dialtone for DSL
In-Reply-To: <41EC845B.7070309@wolfnet.org>
References: <41EC7BC5.5070803@wolfnet.org>
	<20050117221009.0b6eb40f@sumners.ath.cx>
	<41EC845B.7070309@wolfnet.org>
Message-ID: <20050118074038.151b1056@sumners.ath.cx>

It is a small tagline under the field where you enter your phone number to check
it for service availability. It is really easy to miss.

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 22:36:59 -0500
Jason Fritcher <jkf at wolfnet.org> wrote:

> Thanks for the list. Did I miss that on Speed Factory's website?

-- 
James Sumners
http://ug.dyndns.org/~jsumners/

"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological
personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the
corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a
condition to which they are quickly addicted."

Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto)
CH:D 59


From jkf at wolfnet.org  Tue Jan 18 09:46:11 2005
From: jkf at wolfnet.org (Jason Fritcher)
Date: Tue Jan 18 09:46:11 2005
Subject: [ale] Cheap dialtone for DSL
In-Reply-To: <41ECEC18.9030009@3times25.net>
References: <41EC7BC5.5070803@wolfnet.org> <41ECEC18.9030009@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <41ED1FA8.9000107@wolfnet.org>

Geoffrey wrote:
> I'd contact the PSC anyway.  I also wouldn't tell them on the phone the
> purpose of the line.  Simply tell them you're looking for a low cost
> phone line.

Ok, I'll give that angle a try.

> I'm afraid BellSouth is simply going to screw themselves.  Between their
> customer dis-service and raping customers with fees, they'll not likely
> realize until it's too late as folks continue to jump ship.

heh, yeah. I've already found a combination of Vonage and a cell phone to be
a complete replacement for a landline. At least in California, SBC still
offers metered accounts for those who can't afford flat rate.

--
Jason Fritcher
jkf at wolfnet.org
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From keith.watson at gtri.gatech.edu  Tue Jan 18 10:14:30 2005
From: keith.watson at gtri.gatech.edu (Keith R. Watson)
Date: Tue Jan 18 10:14:30 2005
Subject: [ale] My Next Computer
In-Reply-To: <87f94c37050117094450bfd97c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <31b32240050117073026664273@mail.gmail.com>
	<31b322400501162034443f1881@mail.gmail.com>
	<41EBB3D1.2000302@3times25.net>
	<31b3224005011706356a530971@mail.gmail.com>
	<41EBD0B2.8030102@3times25.net>
	<31b32240050117073026664273@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20050118100849.0323dc28@casbah.gatech.edu>


>  Warning to all, FAT32 in the 2.4 kernels from SUSE 8.1 were buggy if
>you went past 137 GB.  (I don't know if that is a device, or partition
>issue.  I tested a 250GB disk with a single 250GB partition.  Worked
>fine until I put too much data on it.)

A corrupted disk when the data exceeds 137GB sounds like a 48-bit LBA problem.

keith

-------------

Keith R. Watson                        GTRI/ISD
Systems Support Specialist III         Georgia Tech Research Institute
keith.watson at gtri.gatech.edu           Atlanta, GA  30332-0816
404-894-0836


From ale1 at cybertechcafe.net  Tue Jan 18 11:27:15 2005
From: ale1 at cybertechcafe.net (Nathan J. Underwood)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:27:15 2005
Subject: [ale] phpgroupware & Global Addressbook
Message-ID: <41ED37E9.6090100@cybertechcafe.net>

We are still in the process of upgrading from MS + Exchange solution to 
an open source solution.  To do this, we're looking into phpgroupware (I 
believe someone here recommended it [thanks, by the way]).  We are 
having trouble finding a way to do a couple of things though.  The 
current issue is with a shared address book.  Ideally, anytime a new 
user was added to phpgroupware, their contact info would be available to 
everyone in the 'everyone' group to view, and some would be able to 
edit.  Currently though, it looks as if it's setup to just have a bunch 
of personal addressbooks.  I'm googling (isn't it weird how that's a 
verb now), but I'm not having a lot of success.  Has anyone else figured 
this out?  If so, care to shoot me a link to the docs that helped you 
figure it out?  Many thanks.

I'm running the following:
Fedora Core 3
Apache 2.0.52
MySQL 3.23.58
phpGroup Ware 0.9.16.005
-- 
--
registered linux user # 73046


From Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net  Tue Jan 18 11:41:48 2005
From: Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net (Robert L. Harris)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:41:48 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: Humor/Gates
Message-ID: <20050118163728.GW2306@rdlg.net>



For those who don't read slashdot...

http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=272750&st=0&#entry585309992

Hope you don't loose too much sleep.


:wq!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert L. Harris                     | GPG Key ID: E344DA3B
                                         @ x-hkp://pgp.mit.edu
DISCLAIMER:
      These are MY OPINIONS             With Dreams To Be A King,
       ALONE.  I speak for              First One Should Be A Man
       no-one else.                       - Manowar

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From mailinglists at synban.com  Tue Jan 18 11:55:16 2005
From: mailinglists at synban.com (Emil P. Man)
Date: Tue Jan 18 11:55:16 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: Exchange Hosting
In-Reply-To: <12bbc01c0501171501cbd1dbe@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41EBFF10.4060200@synban.com>
	<12bbc01c0501171501cbd1dbe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41ED3A8A.6080806@synban.com>

Michael,
thanks so much, just the info I needed


>e^deltacom and vericenter are two in Atlanta you can look at.  I know
>e^deltacom is a nice place and has good people.  Vericenter is at
>MetroNexus which I don't know much about. I don't think you'll find
>that either are very cheap but offer quality service.
>
>I'm sure there are plenty of others but these are two that I know off
>the top of my head that should be able to do this.
>_______________________________________________
>Ale mailing list
>Ale at ale.org
>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
>  
>


From John.Armsby at motorola.com  Tue Jan 18 12:09:17 2005
From: John.Armsby at motorola.com (Armsby John-G16665)
Date: Tue Jan 18 12:09:17 2005
Subject: [ale] Any DBI Oracle guys out there?
Message-ID: <31EF3A450BCED5119D080002A5CE4D9109191803@ga25exb01.wepd.mot.com>

I have a little test script which runs from the shell "perl testOracleObject.pl"  It uses DBI successfully and prints a few records to the screen. No warnings, works great.
 
I take the same script, add a little html stuff... and run it directly as a url from cgi-bin

print"content-type: text/html\n\n";
print("<html><body>");
 
http://ga25web04.wepd.mot.com/cgi-bin/testOracleObject.pl <http://ga25web04.wepd.mot.com/cgi-bin/testOracleObject.pl> 
 
and APACHE 2.0.46 blows up.
 
Any ideas??  I am stumped.  Next thing to do is post to perl guys.....
 
John
 
 
 
[Tue Jan 18 11:41:44 2005] [error] [client 155.102.104.81] install_driver(Oracle) failed: Can't load '/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0/i386-linux-thread-multi/auto/DBD/Oracle/Oracle.so' for module DBD::Oracle: libclntsh.so.9.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory at /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.0/i386-linux-thread-multi/DynaLoader.pm line 229.
[Tue Jan 18 11:41:44 2005] [error] [client 155.102.104.81]  at (eval 1) line 3
[Tue Jan 18 11:41:44 2005] [error] [client 155.102.104.81] Compilation failed in require at (eval 1) line 3.
[Tue Jan 18 11:41:44 2005] [error] [client 155.102.104.81] Perhaps a required shared library or dll isn't installed where expected
[Tue Jan 18 11:41:44 2005] [error] [client 155.102.104.81]  at oracleConnectionObject.pm line 54
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From brandon at geekrus.net  Tue Jan 18 12:13:35 2005
From: brandon at geekrus.net (Brandon Colbert)
Date: Tue Jan 18 12:13:35 2005
Subject: [ale] phpgroupware & Global Addressbook
In-Reply-To: <41ED37E9.6090100@cybertechcafe.net>
References: <41ED37E9.6090100@cybertechcafe.net>
Message-ID: <41ED4280.50309@geekrus.net>

Nathan J. Underwood wrote:

> We are still in the process of upgrading from MS + Exchange solution 
> to an open source solution.  To do this, we're looking into 
> phpgroupware (I believe someone here recommended it [thanks, by the 
> way]).  We are having trouble finding a way to do a couple of things 
> though.  The current issue is with a shared address book.  Ideally, 
> anytime a new user was added to phpgroupware, their contact info would 
> be available to everyone in the 'everyone' group to view, and some 
> would be able to edit.  Currently though, it looks as if it's setup to 
> just have a bunch of personal addressbooks.  I'm googling (isn't it 
> weird how that's a verb now), but I'm not having a lot of success.  
> Has anyone else figured this out?  If so, care to shoot me a link to 
> the docs that helped you figure it out?  Many thanks.
>
> I'm running the following:
> Fedora Core 3
> Apache 2.0.52
> MySQL 3.23.58
> phpGroup Ware 0.9.16.005

I don't know if this applies to groupware, but in egroupware the admin 
can set "rwx" access by groups. Check those settings. The way I 
implemented egroupware is by creating groups and assigned modules to 
that group. Then I added users, and placed them in their respected groups.


From Jerry.Yu at Voicecom.com  Tue Jan 18 12:20:58 2005
From: Jerry.Yu at Voicecom.com (Yu, Jerry)
Date: Tue Jan 18 12:20:58 2005
Subject: [ale] Any DBI Oracle guys out there?
Message-ID: <36EBF009F277D711870F00B0D049D03903666BEA@premess02.premtec.com>

just different execution environment that may or may not have the right
Oracle environmental variables set. You'll need to set ORACLE_HOME and alike
inside your script, otherwise, the CGI script has no idea. When you run from
shell, the script gets it from the current $shell.

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org]On Behalf Of Armsby
John-G16665
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 12:05 PM
To: 'ale at ale.org'
Cc: 'john.armsby at mindspring.com'
Subject: [ale] Any DBI Oracle guys out there?


I have a little test script which runs from the shell "perl
testOracleObject.pl"  It uses DBI successfully and prints a few records to
the screen. No warnings, works great.
 
I take the same script, add a little html stuff... and run it directly as a
url from cgi-bin


print"content-type: text/html\n\n";
print("<html><body>");
 
http://ga25web04.wepd.mot.com/cgi-bin/testOracleObject.pl
<http://ga25web04.wepd.mot.com/cgi-bin/testOracleObject.pl> 
 
and APACHE 2.0.46 blows up.
 
Any ideas??  I am stumped.  Next thing to do is post to perl guys.....
 
John
 
 
 
[Tue Jan 18 11:41:44 2005] [error] [client 155.102.104.81]
install_driver(Oracle) failed: Can't load
'/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0/i386-linux-thread-multi/auto/DBD/Oracle/Orac
le.so' for module DBD::Oracle: libclntsh.so.9.0: cannot open shared object
file: No such file or directory at
/usr/lib/perl5/5.8.0/i386-linux-thread-multi/DynaLoader.pm line 229.
[Tue Jan 18 11:41:44 2005] [error] [client 155.102.104.81]  at (eval 1) line
3
[Tue Jan 18 11:41:44 2005] [error] [client 155.102.104.81] Compilation
failed in require at (eval 1) line 3.
[Tue Jan 18 11:41:44 2005] [error] [client 155.102.104.81] Perhaps a
required shared library or dll isn't installed where expected
[Tue Jan 18 11:41:44 2005] [error] [client 155.102.104.81]  at
oracleConnectionObject.pm line 54


This email and any attached files herein contain information that is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is legally privileged, confidential or otherwise exempt from disclosure under applicable laws. If the reader of this message is not the recipient, any disclosure, dissemination, distribution, copying or other use or retention of this communication or its substance is prohibited.


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From Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net  Tue Jan 18 12:22:09 2005
From: Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net (Robert L. Harris)
Date: Tue Jan 18 12:22:09 2005
Subject: [ale] Any DBI Oracle guys out there?
In-Reply-To: <31EF3A450BCED5119D080002A5CE4D9109191803@ga25exb01.wepd.mot.com>
References: <31EF3A450BCED5119D080002A5CE4D9109191803@ga25exb01.wepd.mot.com>
Message-ID: <20050118171712.GX2306@rdlg.net>



I've been messing with it for the last couple weeks.  What happens if
you run the script by hand...

./testOracleObject.pl 

That'll tell you if you have a perl syntax problem.  Comment out any
insert or update commands just to be on the safe side also.


Thus spake Armsby John-G16665 (John.Armsby at motorola.com):

>    I have a little test script which runs from the shell "perl
>    testOracleObject.pl"  It uses DBI successfully and prints a few records to
>    the screen. No warnings, works great.
>    
>    I take the same script, add a little html stuff... and run it directly as
>    a url from cgi-bin
>    print"content-type: text/html\n\n";
>    print("<html><body>");
>    
>    [1]http://ga25web04.wepd.mot.com/cgi-bin/testOracleObject.pl
>    
>    and APACHE 2.0.46 blows up.
>    
>    Any ideas??  I am stumped.  Next thing to do is post to perl guys.....
>    
>    John
>    
>    
>    
>    [Tue Jan 18 11:41:44 2005] [error] [client 155.102.104.81]
>    install_driver(Oracle) failed: Can't load
>    '/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0/i386-linux-thread-multi/auto/DBD/Oracle/Oracle.so'
>    for module DBD::Oracle: libclntsh.so.9.0: cannot open shared object file:
>    No such file or directory at
>    /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.0/i386-linux-thread-multi/DynaLoader.pm line 229.
>    [Tue Jan 18 11:41:44 2005] [error] [client 155.102.104.81]  at (eval 1)
>    line 3
>    [Tue Jan 18 11:41:44 2005] [error] [client 155.102.104.81] Compilation
>    failed in require at (eval 1) line 3.
>    [Tue Jan 18 11:41:44 2005] [error] [client 155.102.104.81] Perhaps a
>    required shared library or dll isn't installed where expected
>    [Tue Jan 18 11:41:44 2005] [error] [client 155.102.104.81]  at
>    oracleConnectionObject.pm line 54
> 
> References
> 
>    Visible links
>    1. http://ga25web04.wepd.mot.com/cgi-bin/testOracleObject.pl

> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

:wq!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert L. Harris                     | GPG Key ID: E344DA3B
                                         @ x-hkp://pgp.mit.edu
DISCLAIMER:
      These are MY OPINIONS             With Dreams To Be A King,
       ALONE.  I speak for              First One Should Be A Man
       no-one else.                       - Manowar

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From david.muse at firstworks.com  Tue Jan 18 13:42:37 2005
From: david.muse at firstworks.com (David Muse)
Date: Tue Jan 18 13:42:37 2005
Subject: [ale] Any DBI Oracle guys out there?
In-Reply-To: <31EF3A450BCED5119D080002A5CE4D9109191803@ga25exb01.wepd.mot.com>
References: <31EF3A450BCED5119D080002A5CE4D9109191803@ga25exb01.wepd.mot.com>
Message-ID: <20050118133824.3ec54d73@neptune.4accesscommunications.com>

John,

It looks like libclntsh.so.9.0 may not in the LD_LIBRARY_PATH that
apache sees when it starts up.  When Apache runs your script, it tries
to load the oracle module, the module tries to load libclntsh.so.9.0, it
can't because it's not in Apache's LD_LIBRARY_PATH.

You can fix this one of 2 ways:

* add $ORACLE_HOME/lib to /etc/ld.so.conf (note that you cannot just use
$ORACLE_HOME, rather you'll have to use the actual directory name)
* add LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$LD_LIBRARY_PATH:$ORACLE_HOME/lib
early in the script that starts apache

It probably works from the command line because you have
$ORACLE_HOME/lib in your LD_LIBRARY_PATH.  Perhaps you set it in your
.bashrc or it gets set in /etc/bashrc.

Processes that get started at boot up don't source /etc/bashrc or any
particular user's .bashrc (or /etc/profile or any particular user's
.profile either) unless their startup script explicitly does it.  As a
result, they lack whatever paths were added to PATH or LD_LIBRARY_PATH
in those rc files.

Give it a try, let me know how it goes.

David Muse
david.muse at firstworks.com

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 12:04:39 -0500
Armsby John-G16665 <John.Armsby at motorola.com> wrote:

> I have a little test script which runs from the shell "perl
> testOracleObject.pl"  It uses DBI successfully and prints a few
> records
to the screen. No warnings, works great.
>  
> I take the same script, add a little html stuff... and run it directly
> as a url from cgi-bin
> 
> print"content-type: text/html\n\n";
> print("<html><body>");
>  
> http://ga25web04.wepd.mot.com/cgi-bin/testOracleObject.pl
> <http://ga25web04.wepd.mot.com/cgi-bin/testOracleObject.pl> 
>  
> and APACHE 2.0.46 blows up.
>  
> Any ideas??  I am stumped.  Next thing to do is post to perl guys.....
>  
> John
>  
>  
>  
> [Tue Jan 18 11:41:44 2005] [error] [client 155.102.104.81]
> install_driver(Oracle) failed: Can't load
> '/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0/i386-linux-thread-multi/auto/DBD/Orac
> le/Oracle.so' for module DBD::Oracle: libclntsh.so.9.0: cannot open
> shared object file: No such file or directory at
> /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.0/i386-linux-thread-multi/DynaLoader.pm line
> 229.[Tue Jan 18 11:41:44 2005] [error] [client 155.102.104.81]  at
> (eval 1) line 3[Tue Jan 18 11:41:44 2005] [error] [client
> 155.102.104.81] Compilation failed in require at (eval 1) line 3.[Tue
> Jan 18 11:41:44 2005] [error] [client 155.102.104.81] Perhaps a
> required shared library or dll isn't installed where expected[Tue Jan
> 18 11:41:44 2005] [error] [client 155.102.104.81]  at
> oracleConnectionObject.pm line 54


From david.muse at firstworks.com  Tue Jan 18 13:49:28 2005
From: david.muse at firstworks.com (David Muse)
Date: Tue Jan 18 13:49:28 2005
Subject: [ale] Any DBI Oracle guys out there?
In-Reply-To: <31EF3A450BCED5119D080002A5CE4D9109191803@ga25exb01.wepd.mot.com>
References: <31EF3A450BCED5119D080002A5CE4D9109191803@ga25exb01.wepd.mot.com>
Message-ID: <20050118134519.6912f80b@neptune.4accesscommunications.com>

Now that I think about it, there are some other potentially complicating
factors...

Getting $ORACLE_HOME/lib into the LD_LIBRARY_PATH is part of the
challenge, but there are a host of environment variables that should
be set for any process using oracle.  It might be good to create a file
with just those environment variable settings in them and source it
from/etc/profile(or /etc/bashrc) and from apache's startup script.

Some platforms have an /etc/profile.d directory and any script in it
will be sourced when a user logs in.

So, maybe you could create /etc/profile.d/oracle containing:

export ORACLE_VERSION=10.1.0
export ORACLE_BASE=/u01/app/oracle
export ORACLE_HOME=$ORACLE_BASE/product/$ORACLE_VERSION
export ORACLE_SID=ora1
export PATH=$PATH:$ORACLE_HOME/bin
export CLASSPATH=$ORACLE_BASE/jdbc/lib/classes111.zip
export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$ORACLE_HOME/lib
export ORA_NLS33=$ORACLE_HOME/ocommon/nls/admin/data
export ORACLE_OWNER=oracle
export ORACLE_TERM=386
export NLS_LANG=american

And then, near the top of the apache startup script:

. /etc/profile.d/oracle

Dave

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 12:04:39 -0500
Armsby John-G16665 <John.Armsby at motorola.com> wrote:

> I have a little test script which runs from the shell "perl
> testOracleObject.pl"  It uses DBI successfully and prints a few
> records
to the screen. No warnings, works great.
>  
> I take the same script, add a little html stuff... and run it directly
> as a url from cgi-bin
> 
> print"content-type: text/html\n\n";
> print("<html><body>");
>  
> http://ga25web04.wepd.mot.com/cgi-bin/testOracleObject.pl
> <http://ga25web04.wepd.mot.com/cgi-bin/testOracleObject.pl> 
>  
> and APACHE 2.0.46 blows up.
>  
> Any ideas??  I am stumped.  Next thing to do is post to perl guys.....
>  
> John
>  
>  
>  
> [Tue Jan 18 11:41:44 2005] [error] [client 155.102.104.81]
> install_driver(Oracle) failed: Can't load
> '/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0/i386-linux-thread-multi/auto/DBD/Orac
> le/Oracle.so' for module DBD::Oracle: libclntsh.so.9.0: cannot open
> shared object file: No such file or directory at
> /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.0/i386-linux-thread-multi/DynaLoader.pm line
> 229.[Tue Jan 18 11:41:44 2005] [error] [client 155.102.104.81]  at
> (eval 1) line 3[Tue Jan 18 11:41:44 2005] [error] [client
> 155.102.104.81] Compilation failed in require at (eval 1) line 3.[Tue
> Jan 18 11:41:44 2005] [error] [client 155.102.104.81] Perhaps a
> required shared library or dll isn't installed where expected[Tue Jan
> 18 11:41:44 2005] [error] [client 155.102.104.81]  at
> oracleConnectionObject.pm line 54


From greg.freemyer at gmail.com  Tue Jan 18 13:57:46 2005
From: greg.freemyer at gmail.com (Greg Freemyer)
Date: Tue Jan 18 13:57:46 2005
Subject: [ale] My Next Computer
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050118100849.0323dc28@casbah.gatech.edu>
References: <31b322400501162034443f1881@mail.gmail.com>
	<41EBB3D1.2000302@3times25.net>
	<31b3224005011706356a530971@mail.gmail.com>
	<41EBD0B2.8030102@3times25.net>
	<31b32240050117073026664273@mail.gmail.com>
	<87f94c37050117094450bfd97c@mail.gmail.com>
	<5.1.0.14.2.20050118100849.0323dc28@casbah.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <87f94c3705011810533f1f5f49@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 10:10:19 -0500, Keith R. Watson
<keith.watson at gtri.gatech.edu> wrote:
> 
> >  Warning to all, FAT32 in the 2.4 kernels from SUSE 8.1 were buggy if
> >you went past 137 GB.  (I don't know if that is a device, or partition
> >issue.  I tested a 250GB disk with a single 250GB partition.  Worked
> >fine until I put too much data on it.)
> 
> A corrupted disk when the data exceeds 137GB sounds like a 48-bit LBA problem.
> 
> keith
> 

If you are talking about the IDE controller not supporting 48-bit LBA
and thus wrapping on itself, then I have seen that problem as well,
but not in this case.

The problem I had was exclusive to FAT32 under 2.4.x.  ie. I used the
same hardware, but with ext2 and it worked fine.

Also, with 2.6.8 from SUSE 9.2 and the same hardware, it worked fine with FAT32.

Greg
-- 
Greg Freemyer


From jbaldwin at antinode.net  Tue Jan 18 15:01:13 2005
From: jbaldwin at antinode.net (James Baldwin)
Date: Tue Jan 18 15:01:13 2005
Subject: [ale] phpgroupware & Global Addressbook
In-Reply-To: <41ED37E9.6090100@cybertechcafe.net>
References: <41ED37E9.6090100@cybertechcafe.net>
Message-ID: <191E0D66-698B-11D9-AD18-000D93C280F2@antinode.net>

On 18 Jan 2005, at 11:23, Nathan J. Underwood wrote:

> We are still in the process of upgrading from MS + Exchange solution 
> to an open source solution.  To do this, we're looking into 
> phpgroupware (I believe someone here recommended it [thanks, by the 
> way]).  We are having trouble finding a way to do a couple of things 
> though.  The current issue is with a shared address book.  Ideally, 
> anytime a new user was added to phpgroupware, their contact info would 
> be available to everyone in the 'everyone' group to view, and some 
> would be able to edit.  Currently though, it looks as if it's setup to 
> just have a bunch of personal addressbooks.  I'm googling (isn't it 
> weird how that's a verb now), but I'm not having a lot of success.  
> Has anyone else figured this out?  If so, care to shoot me a link to 
> the docs that helped you figure it out?  Many thanks.

Why isn't LDAP appropriate for this? This allows for tie in to most 
modern mail clients and address books.

---
James Baldwin
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From jimmyoliver at gmail.com  Tue Jan 18 15:11:52 2005
From: jimmyoliver at gmail.com (Jimmy Oliver)
Date: Tue Jan 18 15:11:52 2005
Subject: [ale] MRTG data dir?
In-Reply-To: <41EAE808.2040307@wolfnet.org>
References: <200501161425.18580.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
	<41EAE808.2040307@wolfnet.org>
Message-ID: <f7faa86205011812076f302127@mail.gmail.com>

Jason is right.  It has been a while since I used vanilla mrtg, but
the files should be in the same directory as the html and png files. 
They should have a .log extension.  This only applies if you did not
set up mrtg to use rrd files for storage.

HTH,
-Jimmy


On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 17:17:44 -0500, Jason Fritcher <jkf at wolfnet.org> wrote:
> David Corbin wrote:
> > I have Debian system running MRTG.  Any ideas where MRTG writes its data?  I
> > know where it writes the .png and .html files to but I assume it has an
> > rrd-style database somewhere...
> 
> Every installation of mrtg I've done writes the db in the same directory as
> the graphics.
> 
> --
> Jason Fritcher
> jkf at wolfnet.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> 
> 


-- 
________________________
Jimmy Oliver aka jimbo
http://www.gojimbo.com
email:  jimbo at gojimbo.com
lists:  jimmyoliver at gmail.com


From ale1 at cybertechcafe.net  Tue Jan 18 15:34:52 2005
From: ale1 at cybertechcafe.net (Nathan J. Underwood)
Date: Tue Jan 18 15:34:52 2005
Subject: [ale] phpgroupware & Global Addressbook
In-Reply-To: <191E0D66-698B-11D9-AD18-000D93C280F2@antinode.net>
References: <41ED37E9.6090100@cybertechcafe.net>
	<191E0D66-698B-11D9-AD18-000D93C280F2@antinode.net>
Message-ID: <41ED71EB.3050608@cybertechcafe.net>

LDAP was one of the original plans, but they're looking for a very 
'Outlook' look and feel.  While LDAP will provide the global address 
book, I've not found anything to replace the shared calendars. 
phpGroupware does that.


--
registered linux user # 73046

Nathan J. Underwood
Cyber Tech Cafe' <><
http://www.cybertechcafe.net

James Baldwin wrote:
> On 18 Jan 2005, at 11:23, Nathan J. Underwood wrote:
> 
>> We are still in the process of upgrading from MS + Exchange solution 
>> to an open source solution.  To do this, we're looking into 
>> phpgroupware (I believe someone here recommended it [thanks, by the 
>> way]).  We are having trouble finding a way to do a couple of things 
>> though.  The current issue is with a shared address book.  Ideally, 
>> anytime a new user was added to phpgroupware, their contact info would 
>> be available to everyone in the 'everyone' group to view, and some 
>> would be able to edit.  Currently though, it looks as if it's setup to 
>> just have a bunch of personal addressbooks.  I'm googling (isn't it 
>> weird how that's a verb now), but I'm not having a lot of success.  
>> Has anyone else figured this out?  If so, care to shoot me a link to 
>> the docs that helped you figure it out?  Many thanks.
> 
> 
> Why isn't LDAP appropriate for this? This allows for tie in to most 
> modern mail clients and address books.
> 
> ---
> James Baldwin


From John.Armsby at motorola.com  Tue Jan 18 16:50:00 2005
From: John.Armsby at motorola.com (Armsby John-G16665)
Date: Tue Jan 18 16:50:00 2005
Subject: [ale] Any DBI Oracle guys out there?
Message-ID: <31EF3A450BCED5119D080002A5CE4D9109191807@ga25exb01.wepd.mot.com>

Thanks for the input.  I have set the oracle home environment in both the /etc/profile and the perl script.  I am going to share your input with our oracle DBA and see what happens.

Thanks for taking the time to answer the post.

John


-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of David Muse
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 1:45 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] Any DBI Oracle guys out there?


Now that I think about it, there are some other potentially complicating factors...

Getting $ORACLE_HOME/lib into the LD_LIBRARY_PATH is part of the challenge, but there are a host of environment variables that should be set for any process using oracle.  It might be good to create a file with just those environment variable settings in them and source it from/etc/profile(or /etc/bashrc) and from apache's startup script.

Some platforms have an /etc/profile.d directory and any script in it will be sourced when a user logs in.

So, maybe you could create /etc/profile.d/oracle containing:

export ORACLE_VERSION=10.1.0
export ORACLE_BASE=/u01/app/oracle
export ORACLE_HOME=$ORACLE_BASE/product/$ORACLE_VERSION
export ORACLE_SID=ora1
export PATH=$PATH:$ORACLE_HOME/bin
export CLASSPATH=$ORACLE_BASE/jdbc/lib/classes111.zip
export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$ORACLE_HOME/lib
export ORA_NLS33=$ORACLE_HOME/ocommon/nls/admin/data
export ORACLE_OWNER=oracle
export ORACLE_TERM=386
export NLS_LANG=american

And then, near the top of the apache startup script:

. /etc/profile.d/oracle

Dave

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 12:04:39 -0500
Armsby John-G16665 <John.Armsby at motorola.com> wrote:

> I have a little test script which runs from the shell "perl 
> testOracleObject.pl"  It uses DBI successfully and prints a few 
> records
to the screen. No warnings, works great.
>  
> I take the same script, add a little html stuff... and run it directly 
> as a url from cgi-bin
> 
> print"content-type: text/html\n\n";
> print("<html><body>");
>  
> http://ga25web04.wepd.mot.com/cgi-bin/testOracleObject.pl
> <http://ga25web04.wepd.mot.com/cgi-bin/testOracleObject.pl>
>  
> and APACHE 2.0.46 blows up.
>  
> Any ideas??  I am stumped.  Next thing to do is post to perl guys.....
>  
> John
>  
>  
>  
> [Tue Jan 18 11:41:44 2005] [error] [client 155.102.104.81]
> install_driver(Oracle) failed: Can't load 
> '/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0/i386-linux-thread-multi/auto/DBD/Orac
> le/Oracle.so' for module DBD::Oracle: libclntsh.so.9.0: cannot open 
> shared object file: No such file or directory at 
> /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.0/i386-linux-thread-multi/DynaLoader.pm line 
> 229.[Tue Jan 18 11:41:44 2005] [error] [client 155.102.104.81]  at 
> (eval 1) line 3[Tue Jan 18 11:41:44 2005] [error] [client 
> 155.102.104.81] Compilation failed in require at (eval 1) line 3.[Tue 
> Jan 18 11:41:44 2005] [error] [client 155.102.104.81] Perhaps a 
> required shared library or dll isn't installed where expected[Tue Jan 
> 18 11:41:44 2005] [error] [client 155.102.104.81]  at 
> oracleConnectionObject.pm line 54
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From jimmyc at speedfactory.net  Tue Jan 18 18:45:38 2005
From: jimmyc at speedfactory.net (Jim Philips)
Date: Tue Jan 18 18:45:38 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: Humor/Gates
In-Reply-To: <20050118163728.GW2306@rdlg.net>
References: <20050118163728.GW2306@rdlg.net>
Message-ID: <200501181840.41080.jimmyc@speedfactory.net>

On Tuesday 18 January 2005 11:37 am, Robert L. Harris wrote:
> For those who don't read slashdot...
>
> http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=272750&st=0&#entry585309992
>
> Hope you don't loose too much sleep.

We can only be grateful he didn't appear in Playgirl. The horror!

But he looks more like the goofy geek in his mug shot from a 1977 arrest for a 
traffic violation:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/mugshots/gatesmug1.html


From cor.angela at mindspring.com  Tue Jan 18 21:09:20 2005
From: cor.angela at mindspring.com (Cor van Dijk)
Date: Tue Jan 18 21:09:20 2005
Subject: [ale] Upgrade hell
Message-ID: <41EDC16A.5040003@mindspring.com>

Greetings,

For years I had RH 6.2 running on my Sony laptop without any problem.
To get usb support I tried to switch to RH Enterprise 3.3  (which is 
running fine
on a regular PC.) Halfway through the setup process I am told that  the 
machine
- that is the laptop - is not supported.

Then I tried to upgrade using  RH 7.2, which has been running for years 
on a regular
PC without ever any problem. That upgrade  worked. However, every now 
and then
I get a hang when in an X screen; it does not do that in a startup console.

I then tried a complete reinstall of RH 7.2, reformatting all partitions 
and checking for bad blocks, but with the same result: hangs!
I ran a memtest for several hours: zero errors. No interrupt conflicts 
that I can see.

It appears that there is a bug in the X-machinery or maybe in the Gnome 
stuff.
Anybody seen this? Any fix?

Any help is appreciated, Cor van Dijk.



From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Tue Jan 18 21:12:04 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Tue Jan 18 21:12:04 2005
Subject: [ale] ping
Message-ID: <1106100467.16329.0.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>

weird email today. not much of even spam.
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From jsheets at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 18 21:13:07 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Tue Jan 18 21:13:07 2005
Subject: [ale] Upgrade hell
In-Reply-To: <41EDC16A.5040003@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20050119020843.42469.qmail@web54406.mail.yahoo.com>

First thing I'd do is get a modern distro.  RH 7.2 is
4 years old now.  Even RH9 is out of service.  Try
SuSE, Debian, Mandrake, or Fedora...  any one of the
current distros would give you a world of better
results.

--J


--- Cor van Dijk <cor.angela at mindspring.com> wrote:

> Greetings,
> 
> For years I had RH 6.2 running on my Sony laptop
> without any problem.
> To get usb support I tried to switch to RH
> Enterprise 3.3  (which is 
> running fine
> on a regular PC.) Halfway through the setup process
> I am told that  the 
> machine
> - that is the laptop - is not supported.
> 
> Then I tried to upgrade using  RH 7.2, which has
> been running for years 
> on a regular
> PC without ever any problem. That upgrade  worked.
> However, every now 
> and then
> I get a hang when in an X screen; it does not do
> that in a startup console.
> 
> I then tried a complete reinstall of RH 7.2,
> reformatting all partitions 
> and checking for bad blocks, but with the same
> result: hangs!
> I ran a memtest for several hours: zero errors. No
> interrupt conflicts 
> that I can see.
> 
> It appears that there is a bug in the X-machinery or
> maybe in the Gnome 
> stuff.
> Anybody seen this? Any fix?
> 
> Any help is appreciated, Cor van Dijk.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Tue Jan 18 21:19:30 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Tue Jan 18 21:19:30 2005
Subject: [ale] Upgrade hell
In-Reply-To: <41EDC16A.5040003@mindspring.com>
References: <41EDC16A.5040003@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <41EDC2B5.9060106@3times25.net>

Cor van Dijk wrote:

> I then tried a complete reinstall of RH 7.2, reformatting all partitions 
> and checking for bad blocks, but with the same result: hangs!
> I ran a memtest for several hours: zero errors. No interrupt conflicts 
> that I can see.

I'd first go with a newer version.  I've installed SuSE 9.2 on all kinds 
of hardware.  The main hangup is enough memory.  I've got a pentium 166 
laptop with Suse 9.2 (128mb memory).

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 18 21:25:33 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Tue Jan 18 21:25:33 2005
Subject: [ale] Upgrade hell
In-Reply-To: <41EDC2B5.9060106@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <20050119022040.45474.qmail@web54406.mail.yahoo.com>

Hey, look Geoff!

We agreed!

Wow....

:-D


--- Geoffrey <esoteric at 3times25.net> wrote:

> Cor van Dijk wrote:
> 
> > I then tried a complete reinstall of RH 7.2,
> reformatting all partitions 
> > and checking for bad blocks, but with the same
> result: hangs!
> > I ran a memtest for several hours: zero errors. No
> interrupt conflicts 
> > that I can see.
> 
> I'd first go with a newer version.  I've installed
> SuSE 9.2 on all kinds 
> of hardware.  The main hangup is enough memory. 
> I've got a pentium 166 
> laptop with Suse 9.2 (128mb memory).
> 
> -- 
> Until later, Geoffrey
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 


From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Tue Jan 18 22:13:30 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Tue Jan 18 22:13:30 2005
Subject: [ale] ping
In-Reply-To: <1106100467.16329.0.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
References: <1106100467.16329.0.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <1106104152.4025.5.camel@test.localnetsolutions.com>

On Tue, 2005-01-18 at 21:07, James P. Kinney III wrote:
> weird email today. not much of even spam.

Some days I just do dumb stuff.

Like migrating to a new machine.

And then leaving the email on autopilot on the old machine.

And wondering where all the email is on the new machine.

Gaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Dual CPU's only means you can screw up twice as fast.
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From Dow.Hurst at mindspring.com  Tue Jan 18 22:30:45 2005
From: Dow.Hurst at mindspring.com (Dow Hurst)
Date: Tue Jan 18 22:30:45 2005
Subject: [ale] Upgrade hell
In-Reply-To: <41EDC16A.5040003@mindspring.com>
References: <41EDC16A.5040003@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <41EDD361.6030509@mindspring.com>

Cor,
Is this a Sony Viao?  If so, what is the video chipset in the laptop?  
You may have a problem related to that chipset.  I had a Dell Latitude 
that ran fine under SuSE 7.1 but has all kinds of low level problems 
under 9.1.  I think a bug was introduced and never fixed for the 
Neomagic chipsets.  I had the Neomagic256ZX in the Latitude.
Dow


Cor van Dijk wrote:

> Greetings,
>
> For years I had RH 6.2 running on my Sony laptop without any problem.
> To get usb support I tried to switch to RH Enterprise 3.3  (which is 
> running fine
> on a regular PC.) Halfway through the setup process I am told that  
> the machine
> - that is the laptop - is not supported.
>
> Then I tried to upgrade using  RH 7.2, which has been running for 
> years on a regular
> PC without ever any problem. That upgrade  worked. However, every now 
> and then
> I get a hang when in an X screen; it does not do that in a startup 
> console.
>
> I then tried a complete reinstall of RH 7.2, reformatting all 
> partitions and checking for bad blocks, but with the same result: hangs!
> I ran a memtest for several hours: zero errors. No interrupt conflicts 
> that I can see.
>
> It appears that there is a bug in the X-machinery or maybe in the 
> Gnome stuff.
> Anybody seen this? Any fix?
>
> Any help is appreciated, Cor van Dijk.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>


From johnmills at speakeasy.net  Tue Jan 18 22:39:06 2005
From: johnmills at speakeasy.net (John Mills)
Date: Tue Jan 18 22:39:06 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: 'fvwm2' focus problem - but in Cygwin
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0501182228580.21078-100000@otter.localdomain>

ALErs -

I've got a clean, recent installation of Cygwin on a WinXPPro/ Dell
Latitude laptop. I usual run X11 and 'fvwme2', which works fine. EXCEPT
... I would like to 'click' anywhere in a window and have it receive
focus, but at the moment I must 'click' _on_the_frame_ somewhere to have
focus changed to the window. @#$%^&!!

My '.fvwm2rc' entry is:

Style * ClickToFocus

_Almost_ does what I want.

TIA for any words of wisdom.

 - John Mills
   john.m.mills at alum.mit.edu


From cor.angela at mindspring.com  Tue Jan 18 22:46:10 2005
From: cor.angela at mindspring.com (Cor van Dijk)
Date: Tue Jan 18 22:46:10 2005
Subject: [ale] Upgrade hell
In-Reply-To: <41EDC2B5.9060106@3times25.net>
References: <41EDC16A.5040003@mindspring.com> <41EDC2B5.9060106@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <41EDD81B.9050704@mindspring.com>

Geoffrey wrote:

> Cor van Dijk wrote:
>
>> I then tried a complete reinstall of RH 7.2, reformatting all 
>> partitions and checking for bad blocks, but with the same result: hangs!
>> I ran a memtest for several hours: zero errors. No interrupt 
>> conflicts that I can see.
>
>
> I'd first go with a newer version.  I've installed SuSE 9.2 on all 
> kinds of hardware.  The main hangup is enough memory.  I've got a 
> pentium 166 laptop with Suse 9.2 (128mb memory).
>
Hey, my RH Enterprise 3.3 is from Oct 2003!
I have Suse 8.2, it is from 2003, but its documentation barely mentions usb,
and says nothing at all about being suitable for a laptop. I hate to sit 
there
for an hour or so repartitioning and what not and then be told no go.

But thanks for the tip about Suse 9.2 ( MicroCenter or Fry?)
I may try that.
Cor

Answer to Dow Hurst: yes, it is a Sony Viao PCG-F630, thanks.


From bluejay at speedfactory.net  Wed Jan 19 04:36:54 2005
From: bluejay at speedfactory.net (Jim Seymour)
Date: Wed Jan 19 04:36:54 2005
Subject: [ale] Routing slow on certain sites
In-Reply-To: <41EC0FA8.9000603@mindspring.com>
References: <20050116183720.GA5163@speedfactory.net>
	<41EB2F46.7040000@3times25.net>
	<20050117170905.GA10244@speedfactory.net>
	<20050117183934.GB10244@speedfactory.net>
	<41EC0FA8.9000603@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20050119093020.GA27287@speedfactory.net>

On Mon, Jan 17, 2005 at 02:19:04PM -0500, Dow Hurst wrote:
> The MTU on the Win box could be too high.  If the inside interface on 
> the Linux router is less than 1500 then set the WinXP box to match it.
> Dow
> 
I set the mtu on the WinXP box to the same as the Linux box. They are
both at 1500. The mtu on the pppoe connection is at 1492. When I try to
load aol.com through the lan connection, it dies without an error. If I
disable the lan connection and use dialup, it loads quickly. This is
using IE 6 in both cases. Of course there is no problem loading it on
the Linux box (router) :-)

Weird stuff,

Jim Seymour


From scottm at noesisopen.com  Wed Jan 19 05:08:48 2005
From: scottm at noesisopen.com (Scott A. Martin)
Date: Wed Jan 19 05:08:48 2005
Subject: [ale] Routing slow on certain sites
In-Reply-To: <20050119093020.GA27287@speedfactory.net>
References: <20050116183720.GA5163@speedfactory.net>
	<41EB2F46.7040000@3times25.net>
	<20050117170905.GA10244@speedfactory.net>
	<20050117183934.GB10244@speedfactory.net>
	<41EC0FA8.9000603@mindspring.com>
	<20050119093020.GA27287@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <1106128992.9168.6.camel@open.office.noesisopen.com>

Jim,

Check out section on following URL about connecting to AOL from a
corporate LAN: http://webmaster.info.aol.com/connectivity.html.

Scott

On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 04:30 -0500, Jim Seymour wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 17, 2005 at 02:19:04PM -0500, Dow Hurst wrote:
> > The MTU on the Win box could be too high.  If the inside interface on 
> > the Linux router is less than 1500 then set the WinXP box to match it.
> > Dow
> > 
> I set the mtu on the WinXP box to the same as the Linux box. They are
> both at 1500. The mtu on the pppoe connection is at 1492. When I try to
> load aol.com through the lan connection, it dies without an error. If I
> disable the lan connection and use dialup, it loads quickly. This is
> using IE 6 in both cases. Of course there is no problem loading it on
> the Linux box (router) :-)
> 
> Weird stuff,
> 
> Jim Seymour
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
-- 
Scott A. Martin <scottm at noesisopen.com>
NOESIS Open Systems


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Wed Jan 19 06:41:18 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Wed Jan 19 06:41:18 2005
Subject: [ale] Upgrade hell
In-Reply-To: <20050119022040.45474.qmail@web54406.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20050119022040.45474.qmail@web54406.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <41EE4655.8030609@3times25.net>

Jerald Sheets wrote:
> Hey, look Geoff!
> 
> We agreed!

Don't let it get out, it'll ruin my image.. :)

> 
> Wow....
> 
> :-D

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Wed Jan 19 06:44:59 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Wed Jan 19 06:44:59 2005
Subject: [ale] Upgrade hell
In-Reply-To: <41EDD361.6030509@mindspring.com>
References: <41EDC16A.5040003@mindspring.com> <41EDD361.6030509@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <41EE46FB.9010200@3times25.net>

Dow Hurst wrote:
> Cor,
> Is this a Sony Viao?  If so, what is the video chipset in the laptop?  
> You may have a problem related to that chipset.  I had a Dell Latitude 
> that ran fine under SuSE 7.1 but has all kinds of low level problems 
> under 9.1.  I think a bug was introduced and never fixed for the 
> Neomagic chipsets.  I had the Neomagic256ZX in the Latitude.

I guess it would depend on how old it is.  My Sony Vaio works great, but 
it wasn't around when RH 6.2 came out and it was preloaded by Emperor 
Linux.  It has an ati video card.

What video card does it have?

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Wed Jan 19 06:51:30 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Wed Jan 19 06:51:30 2005
Subject: [ale] Upgrade hell
In-Reply-To: <41EDD81B.9050704@mindspring.com>
References: <41EDC16A.5040003@mindspring.com> <41EDC2B5.9060106@3times25.net>
	<41EDD81B.9050704@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <41EE48C4.4080004@3times25.net>

Cor van Dijk wrote:
> Geoffrey wrote:
>> I'd first go with a newer version.  I've installed SuSE 9.2 on all 
>> kinds of hardware.  The main hangup is enough memory.  I've got a 
>> pentium 166 laptop with Suse 9.2 (128mb memory).
>>
> Hey, my RH Enterprise 3.3 is from Oct 2003!

Hey, I've got a copy of Netscape (1.1) on a floppy, but that doesn't 
mean I use it. :)

> I have Suse 8.2, it is from 2003, but its documentation barely mentions 
> usb,
> and says nothing at all about being suitable for a laptop. I hate to sit 
> there
> for an hour or so repartitioning and what not and then be told no go.
> 
> But thanks for the tip about Suse 9.2 ( MicroCenter or Fry?)
> I may try that.

You'll pay through the nose at either, you can download a variation of 
9.2 pro from SuSE.  I say a variation as it is a dvd which is around 4g, 
whereas the packaged version I have is a dual-layer dvd with over 7g.

> Cor
> 
> Answer to Dow Hurst: yes, it is a Sony Viao PCG-F630, thanks.

The specs say the video card is a trident cyberblade i7 graphics chip.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Wed Jan 19 09:11:46 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Wed Jan 19 09:11:46 2005
Subject: [ale] Cheap dialtone for DSL
In-Reply-To: <41ED1FA8.9000107@wolfnet.org>
References: <41EC7BC5.5070803@wolfnet.org> <41ECEC18.9030009@3times25.net>
	<41ED1FA8.9000107@wolfnet.org>
Message-ID: <41EE698F.8070800@3times25.net>

Was doing a bit of research on this issue last night.  I went to the 
bellsouth website and selected new service.  It provides you with the 
usual expensive options, but at the bottom of the page is this:

If you are not interested in a BellSouth Answers? bundle, you can order 
basic phone service online.

Which is what you're looking for.  Bear in mind, Bellsouth doesn't want 
to give you these services, but they are available. Here's the actual link:

https://www.bellsouth.com/apps/cnorder/jsp/res_newsvc_intro2.jsp

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From Dow.Hurst at mindspring.com  Wed Jan 19 09:26:31 2005
From: Dow.Hurst at mindspring.com (Dow Hurst)
Date: Wed Jan 19 09:26:31 2005
Subject: [ale] Upgrade hell
In-Reply-To: <41EDD81B.9050704@mindspring.com>
References: <41EDC16A.5040003@mindspring.com> <41EDC2B5.9060106@3times25.net>
	<41EDD81B.9050704@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <41EE6CF7.3080201@mindspring.com>

Your Sony Viao would only have the problem I am mentioning if it has the 
Neomagic video audio chipset.  The driver worked fine under early 2.4 
kernels but in the last couple of years has not worked well.  Or, some 
other subsystem interferes with the hardware.
Dow


Cor van Dijk wrote:

> Geoffrey wrote:
>
>> Cor van Dijk wrote:
>>
>>> I then tried a complete reinstall of RH 7.2, reformatting all 
>>> partitions and checking for bad blocks, but with the same result: 
>>> hangs!
>>> I ran a memtest for several hours: zero errors. No interrupt 
>>> conflicts that I can see.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'd first go with a newer version.  I've installed SuSE 9.2 on all 
>> kinds of hardware.  The main hangup is enough memory.  I've got a 
>> pentium 166 laptop with Suse 9.2 (128mb memory).
>>
> Hey, my RH Enterprise 3.3 is from Oct 2003!
> I have Suse 8.2, it is from 2003, but its documentation barely 
> mentions usb,
> and says nothing at all about being suitable for a laptop. I hate to 
> sit there
> for an hour or so repartitioning and what not and then be told no go.
>
> But thanks for the tip about Suse 9.2 ( MicroCenter or Fry?)
> I may try that.
> Cor
>
> Answer to Dow Hurst: yes, it is a Sony Viao PCG-F630, thanks.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 19 09:47:40 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Wed Jan 19 09:47:40 2005
Subject: [ale] Cheap dialtone for DSL
In-Reply-To: <41EE698F.8070800@3times25.net>
References: <41EC7BC5.5070803@wolfnet.org> <41ECEC18.9030009@3times25.net>
	<41ED1FA8.9000107@wolfnet.org>  <41EE698F.8070800@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <1106145762.2481.4.camel@blue>

I called them and ordered that last year.  $21 per month, no long
distance carrier, no frills, no features, etc.  I use the line to call
1-800 conference bridges for work.  I added the DSL to that line and the
cost went up the $9.95 (plus equipment charges), however I think the
$9.95 is only for the first 3 months.

-Jim P.

On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 09:07 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> Was doing a bit of research on this issue last night.  I went to the 
> bellsouth website and selected new service.  It provides you with the 
> usual expensive options, but at the bottom of the page is this:
> 
> If you are not interested in a BellSouth Answers? bundle, you can order 
> basic phone service online.
> 
> Which is what you're looking for.  Bear in mind, Bellsouth doesn't want 
> to give you these services, but they are available. Here's the actual link:
> 
> https://www.bellsouth.com/apps/cnorder/jsp/res_newsvc_intro2.jsp
> 


From James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com  Wed Jan 19 09:54:55 2005
From: James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com (James Taylor)
Date: Wed Jan 19 09:54:55 2005
Subject: [ale] Upgrade hell
Message-ID: <s1ee2d2c.021@inet.eastcobbgroup.com>

I downloaded the DVD from SuSE a couple of days ago, and installed it on
an AMD64 machine yesterday.  There's way too much of what I use missing
from the download DVD.
I went ahead and installed it anyway because I loaned my retail DVD out
and haven't gotten it back yet.  The CDs don't include the 64-bit kernel
as an option...
-jt
 
 


James Taylor
The East Cobb Group, Inc.
james.taylor at eastcobbgroup.com
678-697-9420


>>>esoteric at 3times25.net 01/19/05 6:47 am >>> 
Cor van Dijk wrote: 
>Geoffrey wrote: 
>>I'd first go with a newer version.  I've installed SuSE 9.2 on all 
>>kinds of hardware.  The main hangup is enough memory.  I've got a 
>>pentium 166 laptop with Suse 9.2 (128mb memory). 
>> 
>Hey, my RH Enterprise 3.3 is from Oct 2003! 
 
Hey, I've got a copy of Netscape (1.1) on a floppy, but that doesn't 
mean I use it. :) 
 
>I have Suse 8.2, it is from 2003, but its documentation barely mentions

>usb, 
>and says nothing at all about being suitable for a laptop. I hate to
sit 
>there 
>for an hour or so repartitioning and what not and then be told no go. 
> 
>But thanks for the tip about Suse 9.2 ( MicroCenter or Fry?) 
>I may try that. 
 
You'll pay through the nose at either, you can download a variation of 
9.2 pro from SuSE.  I say a variation as it is a dvd which is around 4g,

whereas the packaged version I have is a dual-layer dvd with over 7g. 
 
>Cor 
> 
>Answer to Dow Hurst: yes, it is a Sony Viao PCG-F630, thanks. 
 
The specs say the video card is a trident cyberblade i7 graphics chip. 
 
-- 
Until later, Geoffrey 
 
Ale mailing list 
Ale at ale.org 
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale 



From jkf at wolfnet.org  Wed Jan 19 09:55:48 2005
From: jkf at wolfnet.org (Jason Fritcher)
Date: Wed Jan 19 09:55:48 2005
Subject: [ale] Cheap dialtone for DSL
In-Reply-To: <41EE698F.8070800@3times25.net>
References: <41EC7BC5.5070803@wolfnet.org>
	<41ECEC18.9030009@3times25.net>	<41ED1FA8.9000107@wolfnet.org>
	<41EE698F.8070800@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <41EE73D5.7020906@wolfnet.org>

Geoffrey wrote:
> Was doing a bit of research on this issue last night.  I went to the
> bellsouth website and selected new service.  It provides you with the
> usual expensive options, but at the bottom of the page is this:
>
> If you are not interested in a BellSouth Answers? bundle, you can order
> basic phone service online.

Dude, you rock! :)

That little link at the bottom of that huge page, I don't think I'd ever
have found that on my own. At least I know that $17.45/mo is the absolute
cheapest I'm probably going to find.

Right now, I'm thinking about getting a naked line from Speakeasy, and when
Bellsouth decides to let other people do the same, switch over to Speed
Factory. Of course, that is assuming Speakeasy can provision a naked line here.

--
Jason Fritcher
jkf at wolfnet.org
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From esoteric at 3times25.net  Wed Jan 19 10:07:08 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Wed Jan 19 10:07:08 2005
Subject: [ale] Upgrade hell
In-Reply-To: <s1ee2d2c.021@inet.eastcobbgroup.com>
References: <s1ee2d2c.021@inet.eastcobbgroup.com>
Message-ID: <41EE769D.3060903@3times25.net>

James Taylor wrote:
> I downloaded the DVD from SuSE a couple of days ago, and installed it on
> an AMD64 machine yesterday.  There's way too much of what I use missing
> from the download DVD.
> I went ahead and installed it anyway because I loaned my retail DVD out
> and haven't gotten it back yet.  The CDs don't include the 64-bit kernel
> as an option...

Maybe that's the difference between the two?  Seems the retail boxed 
version is about twice the size of the download.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From kwc at TheWorld.com  Wed Jan 19 10:14:44 2005
From: kwc at TheWorld.com (Kenneth W Cochran)
Date: Wed Jan 19 10:14:44 2005
Subject: [ale] Telecom - Birch
Message-ID: <200501191453.JAA221029@shell.TheWorld.com>

Hopefully not off-topic but there's lots of telco experience here...

Any opinions/experiences pro/con wrt Birch Telecom?

Hopefully this won't ignite a flamefest or generate a reply-storm... ;)
Off-list reply is ok; I'll see about summarizing if necessary.

We're considering them for business service (POTS).  Currently
we're with ITC/Deltacom & have been pleased (was a move from
Bellsouth) but Birch has submitted a proposal beating their
price significantly and for similar services/features.

Thanks,

-kc


From FishR at bellsouth.net  Wed Jan 19 10:49:27 2005
From: FishR at bellsouth.net (Ryan Fish)
Date: Wed Jan 19 10:49:27 2005
Subject: [ale] chown options
Message-ID: <043501c4fe3e$5bfb9ba0$6603a8c0@win2kpro1>

Hello all,

Is it possible to perform a recursive chown but exclude one particular directory?  If so, how would it be done?  I have yet to find any info on this online so I figured I would ask...

Thank you.
-Ryan
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From esoteric at 3times25.net  Wed Jan 19 11:01:37 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Wed Jan 19 11:01:37 2005
Subject: [ale] chown options
In-Reply-To: <043501c4fe3e$5bfb9ba0$6603a8c0@win2kpro1>
References: <043501c4fe3e$5bfb9ba0$6603a8c0@win2kpro1>
Message-ID: <41EE8362.90504@3times25.net>

Ryan Fish wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> Is it possible to perform a recursive chown but exclude one
> particular directory?  If so, how would it be done?  I have yet to
> find any info on this online so I figured I would ask...

find . -print|grep -v $DIRECTORY_TO_EXCLUDE|xargs -n 10 chown foo.bar

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net  Wed Jan 19 11:02:38 2005
From: Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net (Robert L. Harris)
Date: Wed Jan 19 11:02:38 2005
Subject: [ale] chown options
In-Reply-To: <043501c4fe3e$5bfb9ba0$6603a8c0@win2kpro1>
References: <043501c4fe3e$5bfb9ba0$6603a8c0@win2kpro1>
Message-ID: <20050119155748.GC9369@rdlg.net>



I think find may have some exclusion but I'd do something like this:


find . -print | grep -v 'directory' | xargs chown fred.users

(Don't do chown -R this way).



Thus spake Ryan Fish (FishR at bellsouth.net):

>    Hello all,
>    
>    Is it possible to perform a recursive chown but exclude one particular
>    directory?  If so, how would it be done?  I have yet to find any info on
>    this online so I figured I would ask...
>    
>    Thank you.
>    -Ryan

> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

:wq!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert L. Harris                     | GPG Key ID: E344DA3B
                                         @ x-hkp://pgp.mit.edu
DISCLAIMER:
      These are MY OPINIONS             With Dreams To Be A King,
       ALONE.  I speak for              First One Should Be A Man
       no-one else.                       - Manowar

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From FishR at bellsouth.net  Wed Jan 19 11:17:09 2005
From: FishR at bellsouth.net (Ryan Fish)
Date: Wed Jan 19 11:17:09 2005
Subject: [ale] chown options
References: <043501c4fe3e$5bfb9ba0$6603a8c0@win2kpro1>
	<41EE8362.90504@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <044e01c4fe42$383376d0$6603a8c0@win2kpro1>

So (pardon the relative newbie here please), would I just add this to the
line performing the recursive chown as in?:

chown -R UID.GID /a/b/c ; find .-print |grep /d/e |xargs -n 10 chown
UID2:GID2

OR, would I need to place this on a separate line?

Thank you.
-Ryan

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Geoffrey" <esoteric at 3times25.net>
To: "Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts" <ale at ale.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: [ale] chown options


> Ryan Fish wrote:
> > Hello all,
> >
> > Is it possible to perform a recursive chown but exclude one
> > particular directory?  If so, how would it be done?  I have yet to
> > find any info on this online so I figured I would ask...
>
> find . -print|grep -v $DIRECTORY_TO_EXCLUDE|xargs -n 10 chown foo.bar
>
> -- 
> Until later, Geoffrey
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>



From jsheets at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 19 11:25:38 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Wed Jan 19 11:25:38 2005
Subject: [ale] Allright, folks...
Message-ID: <mailman.60.1106151937.18563.ale@ale.org>

McKesson Blows.

Anyone gets a job lead you're not going to use, please forward it on to me.

I duno about you, bt I can't sit on my @$$ for a 10-hour shift and do
nothing to collect a check.  I need to actually do something, be constantly
learning, implementing, and working.

Just to give you an idea, I've picked up 24 Brainbench certifications since
I've been here because THERE'S NOTHING ELSE TO DO and we get them free.  8-|

If you can help, Again:

http://www.jeraldsheets.com/resume

At least this time I can look for work while collecting a paycheck, so the
timeframes are nowhere near as critical.

Jerald M. Sheets jr.
Sr. UNIX Systems Administrator
McKesson, Inc.
(404) 293-8762
**********
>su -
Password:
# cat /dev/flood > /dev/earth
# rdev noah+beasts
# dd if=noah+beasts of=/dev/earth

PGP Key: 0x6267F183
BLOG:  http://www.jeraldsheets.com

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GIT d+ s++: a C++++ UL++++ P++ L+++ E--- W++ N+ o-- K+ w-- 
O M+ V PS- PE++ Y+ PGP++ t++ 5++ X+ R* tv- b+ DI++++ D++ 
G+ e h---- r+++ y++++ 
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.0 - Release Date: 1/17/2005
 


From Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net  Wed Jan 19 11:30:51 2005
From: Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net (Robert L. Harris)
Date: Wed Jan 19 11:30:51 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: HTML, Forms and Buttons?
Message-ID: <20050119162616.GD9369@rdlg.net>



  I'm doing a neat little database project for fun with a web front end.
I've got a mysql database and some html forms running querries, etc.
Actually rather fun.

  At any rate right now I've got 2 questions I'm hoping someone can help
with.

  1) how do I rename the "Submit Querry" button.  Can't find any info on
     w3.org
  2) Is there a way to either have the Submit button from #1 either load
     into the same frame or put a close button into the resulting window
     that pops up?  I hate having to constantly X out the summary
     window.

Thanks,
  Robert


:wq!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert L. Harris                     | GPG Key ID: E344DA3B
                                         @ x-hkp://pgp.mit.edu
DISCLAIMER:
      These are MY OPINIONS             With Dreams To Be A King,
       ALONE.  I speak for              First One Should Be A Man
       no-one else.                       - Manowar

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Desc: Digital signature



From pete.hardie at gmail.com  Wed Jan 19 11:35:50 2005
From: pete.hardie at gmail.com (Pete Hardie)
Date: Wed Jan 19 11:35:50 2005
Subject: [ale] chown options
In-Reply-To: <044e01c4fe42$383376d0$6603a8c0@win2kpro1>
References: <043501c4fe3e$5bfb9ba0$6603a8c0@win2kpro1>
	<41EE8362.90504@3times25.net>
	<044e01c4fe42$383376d0$6603a8c0@win2kpro1>
Message-ID: <31b3224005011908295e7c2285@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 11:16:07 -0500, Ryan Fish <FishR at bellsouth.net> wrote:
> So (pardon the relative newbie here please), would I just add this to the
> line performing the recursive chown as in?:
> 
> chown -R UID.GID /a/b/c ; find .-print |grep /d/e |xargs -n 10 chown
> UID2:GID2
> 
> OR, would I need to place this on a separate line?

Skip everything up to the find - find will traverse the filesystem
tree, printing each; grep filters for the one you want (or filters out
those you don't want); xargs runs the command on each entry that
passes the filter.

-- 
Better Living Through Bitmaps


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 19 11:41:48 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Wed Jan 19 11:41:48 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: HTML, Forms and Buttons?
In-Reply-To: <20050119162616.GD9369@rdlg.net>
Message-ID: <mailman.61.1106152907.18563.ale@ale.org>

How about posting the form method stanza of code?

Most often, you can change the actual text displayed on the button with the
name="blah" or the value="blah" directives based on the type of submit.

It's usually in the FORM METHOD=POST  section.


--J 

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Robert
L. Harris
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 11:26 AM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: [ale] OT: HTML, Forms and Buttons?



  I'm doing a neat little database project for fun with a web front end.
I've got a mysql database and some html forms running querries, etc.
Actually rather fun.

  At any rate right now I've got 2 questions I'm hoping someone can help
with.

  1) how do I rename the "Submit Querry" button.  Can't find any info on
     w3.org
  2) Is there a way to either have the Submit button from #1 either load
     into the same frame or put a close button into the resulting window
     that pops up?  I hate having to constantly X out the summary
     window.

Thanks,
  Robert


:wq!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert L. Harris                     | GPG Key ID: E344DA3B
                                         @ x-hkp://pgp.mit.edu
DISCLAIMER:
      These are MY OPINIONS             With Dreams To Be A King,
       ALONE.  I speak for              First One Should Be A Man
       no-one else.                       - Manowar


--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.0 - Release Date: 1/17/2005
 
    

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.0 - Release Date: 1/17/2005
 


From kafka at antichri.st  Wed Jan 19 12:00:13 2005
From: kafka at antichri.st (George Carless)
Date: Wed Jan 19 12:00:13 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: HTML, Forms and Buttons?
In-Reply-To: <20050119162616.GD9369@rdlg.net>
References: <20050119162616.GD9369@rdlg.net>
Message-ID: <20050119165602.GA18385@antichri.st>

>   1) how do I rename the "Submit Querry" button.  Can't find any info on
>      w3.org

<input type="submit" value="Your text here" />

>   2) Is there a way to either have the Submit button from #1 either load
>      into the same frame or put a close button into the resulting window
>      that pops up?  I hate having to constantly X out the summary
>      window.

Well, frames suck.  But you can set the target at the form level, if you 
must have frames.  But they suck. ;)

--George


From mgolding at sdf.lonestar.org  Wed Jan 19 12:03:05 2005
From: mgolding at sdf.lonestar.org (Megan Golding)
Date: Wed Jan 19 12:03:05 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: HTML, Forms and Buttons?
In-Reply-To: <20050119162616.GD9369@rdlg.net>
References: <20050119162616.GD9369@rdlg.net>
Message-ID: <20050119165825.GA7350@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG>

On Wed, Jan 19, 2005 at 11:26:16AM -0500, Robert L. Harris wrote:
>   At any rate right now I've got 2 questions I'm hoping someone can help
> with.
> 
>   1) how do I rename the "Submit Querry" button.  Can't find any info on
>      w3.org

That's the value attribute of the input tag:
	<input type="button" value="Go">
	or <input type="submit" value="Go">
Both will render a button with the word Go on it. The type attribute
can read either button or submit (which is just a special type of
button). It's the value attribute that changes the text on a button. 

>   2) Is there a way to either have the Submit button from #1 either load
>      into the same frame or put a close button into the resulting window
>      that pops up?  I hate having to constantly X out the summary
>      window.

I think I need to see your HTML to understand what changes to suggest.

Megan Golding

-- 
Life with Rachel, one mom's journey: http://www.kalamitykat.com

AIM: meganau  Yahoo!: meggolding  email: mgolding at sdf.lonestar.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org


From jloden at toughguy.net  Wed Jan 19 12:06:30 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Wed Jan 19 12:06:30 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: HTML, Forms and Buttons?
In-Reply-To: <20050119165602.GA18385@antichri.st>
References: <20050119162616.GD9369@rdlg.net>
	<20050119165602.GA18385@antichri.st>
Message-ID: <200501191159.51027.jloden@toughguy.net>

Amen, brother, amen.

-Jay

On Wednesday 19 January 2005 11:56, George Carless wrote:
> Well, frames suck.  But you can set the target at the form level, if you
> must have frames.  But they suck. ;)
>
> --George
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net  Wed Jan 19 12:07:41 2005
From: Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net (Robert L. Harris)
Date: Wed Jan 19 12:07:41 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: HTML, Forms and Buttons?
References: <20050119162616.GD9369@rdlg.net>
Message-ID: <20050119170328.GF9369@rdlg.net>



Actually that's what I was having problems with.  I kept trying to use
NAME= which wasn't working.  I found the VALUE button which works great.

Now I need to just close the resulting window and learn to make
"prettier" pages. :>



Thus spake Jerald Sheets (jsheets at yahoo.com):

> How about posting the form method stanza of code?
> 
> Most often, you can change the actual text displayed on the button with the
> name="blah" or the value="blah" directives based on the type of submit.
> 
> It's usually in the FORM METHOD=POST  section.
> 
> 
> --J 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Robert
> L. Harris
> Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 11:26 AM
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> Subject: [ale] OT: HTML, Forms and Buttons?
> 
> 
> 
>   I'm doing a neat little database project for fun with a web front end.
> I've got a mysql database and some html forms running querries, etc.
> Actually rather fun.
> 
>   At any rate right now I've got 2 questions I'm hoping someone can help
> with.
> 
>   1) how do I rename the "Submit Querry" button.  Can't find any info on
>      w3.org
>   2) Is there a way to either have the Submit button from #1 either load
>      into the same frame or put a close button into the resulting window
>      that pops up?  I hate having to constantly X out the summary
>      window.
> 
> Thanks,
>   Robert
> 
> 
> :wq!
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Robert L. Harris                     | GPG Key ID: E344DA3B
>                                          @ x-hkp://pgp.mit.edu
> DISCLAIMER:
>       These are MY OPINIONS             With Dreams To Be A King,
>        ALONE.  I speak for              First One Should Be A Man
>        no-one else.                       - Manowar
> 
> 
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.0 - Release Date: 1/17/2005
>  
>     
> 
> -- 
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.0 - Release Date: 1/17/2005
>  
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
>  ** CRM114 Whitelisted by: mit.edu **

:wq!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert L. Harris                     | GPG Key ID: E344DA3B
                                         @ x-hkp://pgp.mit.edu
DISCLAIMER:
      These are MY OPINIONS             With Dreams To Be A King,
       ALONE.  I speak for              First One Should Be A Man
       no-one else.                       - Manowar

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From Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net  Wed Jan 19 12:08:24 2005
From: Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net (Robert L. Harris)
Date: Wed Jan 19 12:08:24 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: HTML, Forms and Buttons?
In-Reply-To: <20050119165602.GA18385@antichri.st>
References: <20050119162616.GD9369@rdlg.net>
	<20050119165602.GA18385@antichri.st>
Message-ID: <20050119170411.GG9369@rdlg.net>


Only way I know to have an index visable on the side for navigating.  If
you have a VERY show howto that'll show me how to convert it I'm all for
it.


Thus spake George Carless (kafka at antichri.st):

> >   1) how do I rename the "Submit Querry" button.  Can't find any info on
> >      w3.org
> 
> <input type="submit" value="Your text here" />
> 
> >   2) Is there a way to either have the Submit button from #1 either load
> >      into the same frame or put a close button into the resulting window
> >      that pops up?  I hate having to constantly X out the summary
> >      window.
> 
> Well, frames suck.  But you can set the target at the form level, if you 
> must have frames.  But they suck. ;)
> 
> --George
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

:wq!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert L. Harris                     | GPG Key ID: E344DA3B
                                         @ x-hkp://pgp.mit.edu
DISCLAIMER:
      These are MY OPINIONS             With Dreams To Be A King,
       ALONE.  I speak for              First One Should Be A Man
       no-one else.                       - Manowar

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From jsheets at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 19 12:13:36 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Wed Jan 19 12:13:36 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: HTML, Forms and Buttons?
In-Reply-To: <200501191159.51027.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <mailman.62.1106154815.18563.ale@ale.org>

LOL...  I remember when frames were the greatest thing since sliced bread.  

LOL!  I agree bretheren....can I get an "amen"?

:-D

--Jerald 

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Jay
Loden
Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 12:00 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] OT: HTML, Forms and Buttons?

Amen, brother, amen.

-Jay

On Wednesday 19 January 2005 11:56, George Carless wrote:
> Well, frames suck.  But you can set the target at the form level, if 
> you must have frames.  But they suck. ;)
>
> --George
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.0 - Release Date: 1/17/2005
 

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.0 - Release Date: 1/17/2005
 


From kafka at antichri.st  Wed Jan 19 12:25:09 2005
From: kafka at antichri.st (George Carless)
Date: Wed Jan 19 12:25:09 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: HTML, Forms and Buttons?
In-Reply-To: <20050119170411.GG9369@rdlg.net>
References: <20050119162616.GD9369@rdlg.net>
	<20050119165602.GA18385@antichri.st>
	<20050119170411.GG9369@rdlg.net>
Message-ID: <20050119172054.GA873@antichri.st>

On Wed, Jan 19, 2005 at 12:04:12PM -0500, Robert L. Harris wrote:
> 
> Only way I know to have an index visable on the side for navigating.  If
> you have a VERY show howto that'll show me how to convert it I'm all for
> it.

There're plenty of ways of achieving navigation without using frames.  
For example, use server-side includes to bring in your navigation text.  
You can use CSS to position/display it however you want to.  I generate 
all content from a database, here, which pulls in the navigation (rather 
more complex a setup).  But there're lots of ways frames can be avoided.

--George


From fletch at phydeaux.org  Wed Jan 19 12:25:59 2005
From: fletch at phydeaux.org (fletch at phydeaux.org)
Date: Wed Jan 19 12:25:59 2005
Subject: [ale] chown options
Message-ID: <58323.24.98.129.46.1106155297.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org>

>>>>> "Ryan" == Ryan Fish <FishR at bellsouth.net> writes:

    Ryan> Hello all, Is it possible to perform a recursive chown but
    Ryan> exclude one particular directory?  If so, how would it be
    Ryan> done?  I have yet to find any info on this online so I
    Ryan> figured I would ask...

Look Ma, no perl!

find top \( -name toexclude -prune \) -o -print | xargs chown blah


From volcimaster at gmail.com  Wed Jan 19 12:28:55 2005
From: volcimaster at gmail.com (Warren Myers)
Date: Wed Jan 19 12:28:55 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: HTML, Forms and Buttons?
In-Reply-To: <1110693860898483327@unknownmsgid>
References: <200501191159.51027.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<1110693860898483327@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <cd08a04c05011909247f38700e@mail.gmail.com>

You may consider using PHP instead of HTML. I use a small script on my
website which self-submits, so the new data is always on the same
page, and no frames.

WMM
-- 
http://warrenmyers.com
"Don't let the elephants see what the rabbits are doing." --Ben R Rich


From jloden at toughguy.net  Wed Jan 19 12:30:40 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Wed Jan 19 12:30:40 2005
Subject: [ale] eth0 erros in dmesg
Message-ID: <200501191224.03003.jloden@toughguy.net>

Last few days I've started getting errors in dmesg pertaining to eth0 (also 
occasionally barf across the screen while I'm logged into console, very 
annoying.

More output is available on the web at http://jayloden.com/eth_dump, but the 
gist is basically:

ABORTED IN=eth0 OUT= MAC=00:02:2d:11:ea:df:00:04:e2:4f:a6:00:08:00 
SRC=142.68.218.228 DST=192.168.2.101 LEN=40 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=109 
ID=17427 DF PROTO=TCP SPT=6346 DPT=3355 SEQ=2533122795 ACK=884153666 WINDOW=0 
RES=0x00 RST URGP=0

over and over, with a different IP as the src every time.

I run apt-get upgrade daily, so it may have been resulting from an update.  Is 
this a problem symptom, can I ignore it?
-Jay


From ale at sixit.com  Wed Jan 19 12:34:23 2005
From: ale at sixit.com (Robert Reese)
Date: Wed Jan 19 12:34:23 2005
Subject: [ale] Cheap dialtone for DSL
In-Reply-To: <41ECEC18.9030009@3times25.net>
References: <41EC7BC5.5070803@wolfnet.org>
 <41ECEC18.9030009@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <200501191233100828.028E07D2@mail.sixit.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
On 1/18/2005 at 5:59 AM Geoffrey wrote:
>I'd contact the PSC anyway.  I also wouldn't tell them on the phone the 
>purpose of the line.

Actually, I'd recommend telling the PSC exactly what you want: DSL
availability without Bellsouth.  Bellsouth can recoup the costs of
maintaining the line, which is what one of the extra charges are for, but
until the PSC forces Bellsouth to allow the 'dry lines' we won't get it. 
So go ahead, do tell the PSC what you want; in fact, I'd recommend to
everyone on this list to do so.

Cheers,
Robert Reese~

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Comment: No one has the right to NOT be offended!

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Bfr4WKIuLoXXh3sAM5A61lbJ
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Type: DH/DSS 4096/1024 AES-256
Key ID: 0xA771A40C
Fingerprint: CAE2 81CA A7CD 6681 341C  E3A9 BC3C 04E5 A771 A40C


From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Wed Jan 19 12:36:49 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Wed Jan 19 12:36:49 2005
Subject: [ale] Allright, folks...
In-Reply-To: <200501190822.1cRiB819H3NZFmi0@dove.mail.pas.earthlink.net>
References: <200501190822.1cRiB819H3NZFmi0@dove.mail.pas.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1106155837.21729.19.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>

It may be boring but getting paid to do nothing sure is great.

On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 11:21, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> McKesson Blows.
> 
> Anyone gets a job lead you're not going to use, please forward it on to me.
> 
> I duno about you, bt I can't sit on my @$$ for a 10-hour shift and do
> nothing to collect a check.  I need to actually do something, be constantly
> learning, implementing, and working.
> 
> Just to give you an idea, I've picked up 24 Brainbench certifications since
> I've been here because THERE'S NOTHING ELSE TO DO and we get them free.  8-|
> 
> If you can help, Again:
> 
> http://www.jeraldsheets.com/resume
> 
> At least this time I can look for work while collecting a paycheck, so the
> timeframes are nowhere near as critical.
> 
> Jerald M. Sheets jr.
> Sr. UNIX Systems Administrator
> McKesson, Inc.
> (404) 293-8762
> **********
> >su -
> Password:
> # cat /dev/flood > /dev/earth
> # rdev noah+beasts
> # dd if=noah+beasts of=/dev/earth
> 
> PGP Key: 0x6267F183
> BLOG:  http://www.jeraldsheets.com
> 
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
> Version: 3.12
> GIT d+ s++: a C++++ UL++++ P++ L+++ E--- W++ N+ o-- K+ w-- 
> O M+ V PS- PE++ Y+ PGP++ t++ 5++ X+ R* tv- b+ DI++++ D++ 
> G+ e h---- r+++ y++++ 
> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----


From volcimaster at gmail.com  Wed Jan 19 12:39:53 2005
From: volcimaster at gmail.com (Warren Myers)
Date: Wed Jan 19 12:39:53 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: HTML, Forms and Buttons?
In-Reply-To: <20050119172054.GA873@antichri.st>
References: <20050119162616.GD9369@rdlg.net>
	<20050119165602.GA18385@antichri.st> <20050119170411.GG9369@rdlg.net>
	<20050119172054.GA873@antichri.st>
Message-ID: <cd08a04c050119093335ceec37@mail.gmail.com>

I use SSI's also. Both the HTML and PHP types, depending on which site
I'm working on. server-side includes rock. Add into that styling using
CSS, and my website can change its look with edits to only a couple
pages.

WMM


On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 12:20:54 -0500, George Carless <kafka at antichri.st> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 19, 2005 at 12:04:12PM -0500, Robert L. Harris wrote:
> >
> > Only way I know to have an index visable on the side for navigating.  If
> > you have a VERY show howto that'll show me how to convert it I'm all for
> > it.
> 
> There're plenty of ways of achieving navigation without using frames.
> For example, use server-side includes to bring in your navigation text.
> You can use CSS to position/display it however you want to.  I generate
> all content from a database, here, which pulls in the navigation (rather
> more complex a setup).  But there're lots of ways frames can be avoided.
> 
> --George
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 


-- 
http://warrenmyers.com
"Don't let the elephants see what the rabbits are doing." --Ben R Rich


From ale at sixit.com  Wed Jan 19 12:41:21 2005
From: ale at sixit.com (Robert Reese)
Date: Wed Jan 19 12:41:21 2005
Subject: [ale] Thursday's NW Meeting - Room Change
Message-ID: <200501191237590171.02926E2A@mail.sixit.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi everyone,

Thursday's NW ALE meeting will not be held in CL1007, unless you want to
join me for a rousing evening of precalculus.  I'm not sure where it's
going to be held, but needless to say I'll not be attending... not until
9:30, anyway.  Of course, if misery *really* loves company, you'll know
where to find me.

Cheers,
Robert Reese~

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Comment: No one has the right to NOT be offended!

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Type: DH/DSS 4096/1024 AES-256
Key ID: 0xA771A40C
Fingerprint: CAE2 81CA A7CD 6681 341C  E3A9 BC3C 04E5 A771 A40C


From kafka at antichri.st  Wed Jan 19 12:42:17 2005
From: kafka at antichri.st (George Carless)
Date: Wed Jan 19 12:42:17 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: HTML, Forms and Buttons?
In-Reply-To: <cd08a04c05011909247f38700e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200501191159.51027.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<1110693860898483327@unknownmsgid>
	<cd08a04c05011909247f38700e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050119173658.GB873@antichri.st>

On Wed, Jan 19, 2005 at 12:24:40PM -0500, Warren Myers wrote:
> You may consider using PHP instead of HTML. I use a small script on my
> website which self-submits, so the new data is always on the same
> page, and no frames.

The notion of using "PHP instead of HTML" doesn't make much sense.  PHP 
is not, and indeed cannot be, a replacement for HTML; it's a server-side 
language, whereas HTML is client-side.  It's entirely possible to have 
PHP *create* HTML code.  This may sound pedantic but I think it's
important to be clear about.

--George


From jloden at toughguy.net  Wed Jan 19 12:43:03 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Wed Jan 19 12:43:03 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: HTML, Forms and Buttons?
In-Reply-To: <20050119170411.GG9369@rdlg.net>
References: <20050119162616.GD9369@rdlg.net>
	<20050119165602.GA18385@antichri.st>
	<20050119170411.GG9369@rdlg.net>
Message-ID: <200501191236.10156.jloden@toughguy.net>

I've got a completely table and frame free setup at http://jayloden.com and at 
http://philambaupsilon.org 

I don't know how comfortable you are with CSS, but you could also just make a 
table with a table cell on the side. Either is better than a frame. :)

There's a quick and decent CSS tutorial here:
http://www.yourhtmlsource.com/stylesheets/csslayout.html
and you can get free layout examples for any type of layout you want (three 
column, two column, etc)

-Jay

On Wednesday 19 January 2005 12:04, Robert L. Harris wrote:
> Only way I know to have an index visable on the side for navigating.  If
> you have a VERY show howto that'll show me how to convert it I'm all for
> it.


From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Wed Jan 19 12:50:15 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Wed Jan 19 12:50:15 2005
Subject: [ale] Telecom - Birch
In-Reply-To: <200501191453.JAA221029@shell.TheWorld.com>
References: <200501191453.JAA221029@shell.TheWorld.com>
Message-ID: <1106156755.16329.4.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>

On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 09:53 -0500, Kenneth W Cochran wrote:
> Hopefully not off-topic but there's lots of telco experience here...
> 
> Any opinions/experiences pro/con wrt Birch Telecom?
> 
> Hopefully this won't ignite a flamefest or generate a reply-storm... ;)
> Off-list reply is ok; I'll see about summarizing if necessary.
> 
> We're considering them for business service (POTS).  Currently
> we're with ITC/Deltacom & have been pleased (was a move from
> Bellsouth) but Birch has submitted a proposal beating their
> price significantly and for similar services/features.
> 
> Thanks,

I currently have Birch. No problems to report. Been with them for over 2
years. Phone works and bills happen. 
> 
> -kc
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> !DSPAM:41ee7897229653661656215!
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Wed Jan 19 12:51:17 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Wed Jan 19 12:51:17 2005
Subject: [ale] Making a backup with tar
Message-ID: <1106156788.21730.22.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>

I'm trying to create a file system backup using 'tar -cjpsvf
/bu/full.tar.bz2 /bin /boot /opt /home ...'.  When I extract the files
they are all owned by root.  Should I use the '--same-owner' option on
extraction?

Chris



From preston.boyington at mindspring.com  Wed Jan 19 12:53:40 2005
From: preston.boyington at mindspring.com (Preston Boyington)
Date: Wed Jan 19 12:53:40 2005
Subject: [ale] "easy to use" database
Message-ID: <41EE9D69.90206@mindspring.com>

disclaimer: I have virutally no real experience with setting up and 
admining a database.

Here's what I "think" I need:

1) A relatively easy to use database with (if possible) a web interface 
so I can setup personal accounts.

2) I want it to ledger monthly payments

3) I would like it to have some type of search/report feature so I can 
pull specific items of information from the personal accounts. (ie. all 
birthdays in March, last payments made, if an account is overdue, etc)

4) A "notes" feature so I can input information that doesn't neatly fit 
into my designated fields.

5) Some type of budgeting features so I can make projections, log 
monthly expenditures, deposits, etc.

6) Expandable so I can add the stuff I forget during the initial layout 
(adding fields, etc)

I have heard that Postgres would be a way to go, but I don't know enough 
about it to make a decision yet.

any help would be appreciated.
Preston


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 19 12:59:19 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Wed Jan 19 12:59:19 2005
Subject: [ale] Allright, folks...
In-Reply-To: <1106155837.21729.19.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
References: <200501190822.1cRiB819H3NZFmi0@dove.mail.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1106155837.21729.19.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
Message-ID: <2AF3BB60-6A43-11D9-ABD9-0003931C5368@yahoo.com>

Not if you want to keep your skills honed, and be marketable in a few 
years.  I've been down that road, and it's not fun having to go back 
and relearn stuff.

I'm one of those sick few who isn't happy unless he's working his @$$ 
off.  I prefer activity to inactivity any day.  The day you do nothing 
is the day you lost ground.

--J


On Jan 19, 2005, at 12:30 PM, Christopher Fowler wrote:

> It may be boring but getting paid to do nothing sure is great.
>
> On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 11:21, Jerald Sheets wrote:
>> McKesson Blows.
>>
>> Anyone gets a job lead you're not going to use, please forward it on 
>> to me.
>>
>> I duno about you, bt I can't sit on my @$$ for a 10-hour shift and do
>> nothing to collect a check.  I need to actually do something, be 
>> constantly
>> learning, implementing, and working.
>>
>> Just to give you an idea, I've picked up 24 Brainbench certifications 
>> since
>> I've been here because THERE'S NOTHING ELSE TO DO and we get them 
>> free.  8-|
>>
>> If you can help, Again:
>>
>> http://www.jeraldsheets.com/resume
>>
>> At least this time I can look for work while collecting a paycheck, 
>> so the
>> timeframes are nowhere near as critical.
>>
>> Jerald M. Sheets jr.
>> Sr. UNIX Systems Administrator
>> McKesson, Inc.
>> (404) 293-8762
>> **********
>>> su -
>> Password:
>> # cat /dev/flood > /dev/earth
>> # rdev noah+beasts
>> # dd if=noah+beasts of=/dev/earth
>>
>> PGP Key: 0x6267F183
>> BLOG:  http://www.jeraldsheets.com
>>
>> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
>> Version: 3.12
>> GIT d+ s++: a C++++ UL++++ P++ L+++ E--- W++ N+ o-- K+ w--
>> O M+ V PS- PE++ Y+ PGP++ t++ 5++ X+ R* tv- b+ DI++++ D++
>> G+ e h---- r+++ y++++
>> ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>


From Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net  Wed Jan 19 13:00:22 2005
From: Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net (Robert L. Harris)
Date: Wed Jan 19 13:00:22 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: HTML, Forms and Buttons?
In-Reply-To: <200501191236.10156.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <20050119162616.GD9369@rdlg.net>
	<20050119165602.GA18385@antichri.st>
	<20050119170411.GG9369@rdlg.net>
	<200501191236.10156.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <20050119175603.GI9369@rdlg.net>



  Ok, this is helpful.  I'll be reading this in parallel to the rest of
what I'm working on.  I'll try and convert as I can.

Thus spake Jay Loden (jloden at toughguy.net):

> I've got a completely table and frame free setup at http://jayloden.com and at 
> http://philambaupsilon.org 
> 
> I don't know how comfortable you are with CSS, but you could also just make a 
> table with a table cell on the side. Either is better than a frame. :)
> 
> There's a quick and decent CSS tutorial here:
> http://www.yourhtmlsource.com/stylesheets/csslayout.html
> and you can get free layout examples for any type of layout you want (three 
> column, two column, etc)
> 
> -Jay
> 
> On Wednesday 19 January 2005 12:04, Robert L. Harris wrote:
> > Only way I know to have an index visable on the side for navigating.  If
> > you have a VERY show howto that'll show me how to convert it I'm all for
> > it.
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

:wq!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert L. Harris                     | GPG Key ID: E344DA3B
                                         @ x-hkp://pgp.mit.edu
DISCLAIMER:
      These are MY OPINIONS             With Dreams To Be A King,
       ALONE.  I speak for              First One Should Be A Man
       no-one else.                       - Manowar

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From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Wed Jan 19 13:01:11 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Wed Jan 19 13:01:11 2005
Subject: [ale] "easy to use" database
In-Reply-To: <41EE9D69.90206@mindspring.com>
References: <41EE9D69.90206@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <1106157371.21717.24.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>

SQLite

On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 12:48, Preston Boyington wrote:
> disclaimer: I have virutally no real experience with setting up and 
> admining a database.
> 
> Here's what I "think" I need:
> 
> 1) A relatively easy to use database with (if possible) a web interface 
> so I can setup personal accounts.
> 
> 2) I want it to ledger monthly payments
> 
> 3) I would like it to have some type of search/report feature so I can 
> pull specific items of information from the personal accounts. (ie. all 
> birthdays in March, last payments made, if an account is overdue, etc)
> 
> 4) A "notes" feature so I can input information that doesn't neatly fit 
> into my designated fields.
> 
> 5) Some type of budgeting features so I can make projections, log 
> monthly expenditures, deposits, etc.
> 
> 6) Expandable so I can add the stuff I forget during the initial layout 
> (adding fields, etc)
> 
> I have heard that Postgres would be a way to go, but I don't know enough 
> about it to make a decision yet.
> 
> any help would be appreciated.
> Preston
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From kafka at antichri.st  Wed Jan 19 13:04:03 2005
From: kafka at antichri.st (George Carless)
Date: Wed Jan 19 13:04:03 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: HTML, Forms and Buttons?
In-Reply-To: <200501191236.10156.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <20050119162616.GD9369@rdlg.net>
	<20050119165602.GA18385@antichri.st>
	<20050119170411.GG9369@rdlg.net>
	<200501191236.10156.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <20050119175951.GC873@antichri.st>

On Wed, Jan 19, 2005 at 12:36:09PM -0500, Jay Loden wrote:
> I've got a completely table and frame free setup at http://jayloden.com and at 
> http://philambaupsilon.org 
> 
> I don't know how comfortable you are with CSS, but you could also just make a 
> table with a table cell on the side. Either is better than a frame. :)

Barely.  Tables should be used for tabular data, not for display hacks.  
Use CSS -- it's easy, and it works.  

Cheers,
--George


From volcimaster at gmail.com  Wed Jan 19 13:05:57 2005
From: volcimaster at gmail.com (Warren Myers)
Date: Wed Jan 19 13:05:57 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: HTML, Forms and Buttons?
In-Reply-To: <20050119173658.GB873@antichri.st>
References: <200501191159.51027.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<1110693860898483327@unknownmsgid>
	<cd08a04c05011909247f38700e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050119173658.GB873@antichri.st>
Message-ID: <cd08a04c050119100150399d0b@mail.gmail.com>

True, PHP is a _scripting_ language and HTML is a _markup_ language,
and the browser has no idea what to do with PHP. However, the 'actual'
amount of  HTML in many PHP scripts I have written is _VERY_ small.
Mostly embedded in loops and such that go through and read the
contents of a database query, directory, or other such activities.

What I was trying to get across is that if the page is written in PHP
(on the backend), the form can self-submit, which will get around the
need for frames.

There will be a bit of a learning curve involved, but, as with many
new ideas, it will facilitate better maintenance for the creator, and
will always render correctly. Text browsers, for example, can't render
frames properly. I know we all use Konqueror or Firefox, but there are
several times when I need to use Lynx or (or its more powerful
incarnation, Links), especially if I can't get into an X enironment on
the machine I am logged into.

Text browsers will handle tables to some extent, though it often isn't
pretty (again the exception being Links). But I've always seen them
barf on frames.

Back to the comment about SSI's, an example of 'pure' HTML SSI can be
seen at my work site: www.shodor.org/~wmyers, while the results of my
PHP includes can be seen at warrenmyers.com.

-WMM


On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 12:36:58 -0500, George Carless <kafka at antichri.st> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 19, 2005 at 12:24:40PM -0500, Warren Myers wrote:
> > You may consider using PHP instead of HTML. I use a small script on my
> > website which self-submits, so the new data is always on the same
> > page, and no frames.
> 
> The notion of using "PHP instead of HTML" doesn't make much sense.  PHP
> is not, and indeed cannot be, a replacement for HTML; it's a server-side
> language, whereas HTML is client-side.  It's entirely possible to have
> PHP *create* HTML code.  This may sound pedantic but I think it's
> important to be clear about.
> 
> --George
> 


-- 
http://warrenmyers.com
"Don't let the elephants see what the rabbits are doing." --Ben R Rich


From volcimaster at gmail.com  Wed Jan 19 13:06:55 2005
From: volcimaster at gmail.com (Warren Myers)
Date: Wed Jan 19 13:06:55 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: HTML, Forms and Buttons?
In-Reply-To: <cd08a04c050119100150399d0b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200501191159.51027.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<1110693860898483327@unknownmsgid>
	<cd08a04c05011909247f38700e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050119173658.GB873@antichri.st>
	<cd08a04c050119100150399d0b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cd08a04c050119100233b98729@mail.gmail.com>

I'm also willing to help with some basic PHP if you need it.

WMM
-- 
http://warrenmyers.com
"Don't let the elephants see what the rabbits are doing." --Ben R Rich


From volcimaster at gmail.com  Wed Jan 19 13:08:41 2005
From: volcimaster at gmail.com (Warren Myers)
Date: Wed Jan 19 13:08:41 2005
Subject: [ale] "easy to use" database
In-Reply-To: <1106157371.21717.24.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
References: <41EE9D69.90206@mindspring.com>
	<1106157371.21717.24.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
Message-ID: <cd08a04c050119100470f814ed@mail.gmail.com>

I guess I don't understand what you are trying to do very well. Are
you trying to build a personal checkbook manager that runs through a
web interface? PostgreSQL, MySQL, SQLite should all do the trick.

I'm, most familiar with pgsql and mysql interfacing to PHP to build
the front-end.

WMM


On 19 Jan 2005 12:56:11 -0500, Christopher Fowler
<cfowler at outpostsentinel.com> wrote:
> SQLite
> 
> On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 12:48, Preston Boyington wrote:
> > disclaimer: I have virutally no real experience with setting up and
> > admining a database.
> >
> > Here's what I "think" I need:
> >
> > 1) A relatively easy to use database with (if possible) a web interface
> > so I can setup personal accounts.
> >
> > 2) I want it to ledger monthly payments
> >
> > 3) I would like it to have some type of search/report feature so I can
> > pull specific items of information from the personal accounts. (ie. all
> > birthdays in March, last payments made, if an account is overdue, etc)
> >
> > 4) A "notes" feature so I can input information that doesn't neatly fit
> > into my designated fields.
> >
> > 5) Some type of budgeting features so I can make projections, log
> > monthly expenditures, deposits, etc.
> >
> > 6) Expandable so I can add the stuff I forget during the initial layout
> > (adding fields, etc)
> >
> > I have heard that Postgres would be a way to go, but I don't know enough
> > about it to make a decision yet.
> >
> > any help would be appreciated.
> > Preston
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 


-- 
http://warrenmyers.com
"Don't let the elephants see what the rabbits are doing." --Ben R Rich


From kafka at antichri.st  Wed Jan 19 13:13:48 2005
From: kafka at antichri.st (George Carless)
Date: Wed Jan 19 13:13:48 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: HTML, Forms and Buttons?
In-Reply-To: <cd08a04c050119100150399d0b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200501191159.51027.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<1110693860898483327@unknownmsgid>
	<cd08a04c05011909247f38700e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050119173658.GB873@antichri.st>
	<cd08a04c050119100150399d0b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050119180932.GD873@antichri.st>

> What I was trying to get across is that if the page is written in PHP
> (on the backend), the form can self-submit, which will get around the
> need for frames.

I don't understand what this is supposed to mean... if you have a form, 
you by necessity need to 'do something' with the form, so I don't see 
what 'self-submitting' has to do with anything, really.  PHP won't 
automatically give you anything in terms of navigation that hard-coded 
HTML won't; you'd need to code something.  And for a simple application, 
SSI would probably be an easier option.  

Beyond that, though, I'm with you.  PHP (or really any other server-side 
technology) is pretty powerful and can make life easier for people.  

--George


From Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net  Wed Jan 19 13:21:18 2005
From: Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net (Robert L. Harris)
Date: Wed Jan 19 13:21:18 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: HTML, Forms and Buttons?
In-Reply-To: <20050119180932.GD873@antichri.st>
References: <200501191159.51027.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<1110693860898483327@unknownmsgid>
	<cd08a04c05011909247f38700e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050119173658.GB873@antichri.st>
	<cd08a04c050119100150399d0b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050119180932.GD873@antichri.st>
Message-ID: <20050119181708.GK9369@rdlg.net>



I don't use the frames to manage data.  The left frame is the index with
links to perl/cgi scripts which give output in the right frame.  Most of
these scripts have forms.  When I click the Submit button it opens a new
window to display the output instead of overwriting the same window.
The frames are used strictly for Navigation.  I've done a VERY little
with CSS just for setting backgrounds and some text formatting.  If I
can make it look better using CSS than www.rdlg.net looks I'd LOVE to do
it.  
  This is a "for fun" project and I don't have time though to go read
a 700 page manual.  If someone has some examples they can show and the
code with a "This syntax makes THIS happen" that I can look at and see
then great, that'll work wonders and I'll have time to do it.


Thus spake George Carless (kafka at antichri.st):

> > What I was trying to get across is that if the page is written in PHP
> > (on the backend), the form can self-submit, which will get around the
> > need for frames.
> 
> I don't understand what this is supposed to mean... if you have a form, 
> you by necessity need to 'do something' with the form, so I don't see 
> what 'self-submitting' has to do with anything, really.  PHP won't 
> automatically give you anything in terms of navigation that hard-coded 
> HTML won't; you'd need to code something.  And for a simple application, 
> SSI would probably be an easier option.  
> 
> Beyond that, though, I'm with you.  PHP (or really any other server-side 
> technology) is pretty powerful and can make life easier for people.  
> 
> --George
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

:wq!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert L. Harris                     | GPG Key ID: E344DA3B
                                         @ x-hkp://pgp.mit.edu
DISCLAIMER:
      These are MY OPINIONS             With Dreams To Be A King,
       ALONE.  I speak for              First One Should Be A Man
       no-one else.                       - Manowar

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From ale1 at cybertechcafe.net  Wed Jan 19 13:33:16 2005
From: ale1 at cybertechcafe.net (Nathan J. Underwood)
Date: Wed Jan 19 13:33:16 2005
Subject: [ale] phpgroupware & Global Addressbook
In-Reply-To: <41ED37E9.6090100@cybertechcafe.net>
References: <41ED37E9.6090100@cybertechcafe.net>
Message-ID: <41EEA6EE.1070400@cybertechcafe.net>

Ok, we've toyed around with phpGroupware *and* eGroupware now, and I 
think that (as Brandon Colbert pointed out earlier), eGroupware may be a 
better way to go.  It's very obvious that the two share a very similar 
codebase, but the eGroupware just seems to be a more mature product. 
The only thing that we're still having trouble with is the addressbook. 
  I can add entries to the addressbook, and my users can see them, but 
I've not found a way to have new users (added to eGroupware) 
automagically added to an addressbook.  Is this by design?  Is there a 
switch / button / checkbox somewhere that I've missed that would add 
them to some central / global addressbook?

--
registered linux user # 73046

Nathan J. Underwood
Cyber Tech Cafe' <><
http://www.cybertechcafe.net

Nathan J. Underwood wrote:
> We are still in the process of upgrading from MS + Exchange solution to 
> an open source solution.  To do this, we're looking into phpgroupware (I 
> believe someone here recommended it [thanks, by the way]).  We are 
> having trouble finding a way to do a couple of things though.  The 
> current issue is with a shared address book.  Ideally, anytime a new 
> user was added to phpgroupware, their contact info would be available to 
> everyone in the 'everyone' group to view, and some would be able to 
> edit.  Currently though, it looks as if it's setup to just have a bunch 
> of personal addressbooks.  I'm googling (isn't it weird how that's a 
> verb now), but I'm not having a lot of success.  Has anyone else figured 
> this out?  If so, care to shoot me a link to the docs that helped you 
> figure it out?  Many thanks.
> 
> I'm running the following:
> Fedora Core 3
> Apache 2.0.52
> MySQL 3.23.58
> phpGroup Ware 0.9.16.005


From jasonday at worldnet.att.net  Wed Jan 19 13:45:08 2005
From: jasonday at worldnet.att.net (Jason Day)
Date: Wed Jan 19 13:45:08 2005
Subject: [ale] chown options
In-Reply-To: <41EE8362.90504@3times25.net>
References: <043501c4fe3e$5bfb9ba0$6603a8c0@win2kpro1>
	<41EE8362.90504@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <20050119184049.GY7913@worldnet.att.net>

On Wed, Jan 19, 2005 at 10:57:22AM -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> Ryan Fish wrote:
> >Hello all,
> >
> >Is it possible to perform a recursive chown but exclude one
> >particular directory?  If so, how would it be done?  I have yet to
> >find any info on this online so I figured I would ask...
> 
> find . -print|grep -v $DIRECTORY_TO_EXCLUDE|xargs -n 10 chown foo.bar

A slightly faster way:

chown -R foo.bar `find . -type d -print | grep -v $DIRECTORY_TO_EXCLUDE`

-- 
Jason Day                                       jasonday at
http://jasonday.home.att.net                    worldnet dot att dot net
 
"Of course I'm paranoid, everyone is trying to kill me."
    -- Weyoun-6, Star Trek: Deep Space 9


From ups at tree.com  Wed Jan 19 14:01:10 2005
From: ups at tree.com (Stephan Uphoff)
Date: Wed Jan 19 14:01:10 2005
Subject: [ale] Making a backup with tar
In-Reply-To: <1106156788.21730.22.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
References: <1106156788.21730.22.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
Message-ID: <1106161017.64610.20884.camel@palm.tree.com>

--preserve on extraction always worked for me.

I recommend creating a backup file per file system with -l or
--one-file-system using a relative path.

	(cd /  ; tar cjvlf tarfile1.bz2 ./)
	(cd /usr ; tar cjvlf tarfile2.bz2 ./)

makes it easier to install from bare metal.


On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 12:46, Christopher Fowler wrote:
> I'm trying to create a file system backup using 'tar -cjpsvf
> /bu/full.tar.bz2 /bin /boot /opt /home ...'.  When I extract the files
> they are all owned by root.  Should I use the '--same-owner' option on
> extraction?
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> 


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Wed Jan 19 14:02:13 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Wed Jan 19 14:02:13 2005
Subject: [ale] chown options
In-Reply-To: <044e01c4fe42$383376d0$6603a8c0@win2kpro1>
References: <043501c4fe3e$5bfb9ba0$6603a8c0@win2kpro1>	<41EE8362.90504@3times25.net>
	<044e01c4fe42$383376d0$6603a8c0@win2kpro1>
Message-ID: <41EEADB8.3010800@3times25.net>

Ryan Fish wrote:
> So (pardon the relative newbie here please), would I just add this to the
> line performing the recursive chown as in?:
> 
> chown -R UID.GID /a/b/c ; find .-print |grep /d/e |xargs -n 10 chown
> UID2:GID2
> 
> OR, would I need to place this on a separate line?

You wouldn't need anything other than what I posted.  Don't forget the 
'-v' option to grep, otherwise it will do exactly the opposite of what 
you expect.  The grep will be greedy as well.  For example

grep -v foo

Would exclude anything that contained foo.  If the directory you want to 
exlude is not unique to all files, but is to all directories then you 
could use a variation such as:

find . -type d -print|xargs grep -v $DIRECTORY_YOU_DONT_WANT |
	xargs -n 10 chown -R

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Wed Jan 19 14:11:26 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Wed Jan 19 14:11:26 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: HTML, Forms and Buttons?
In-Reply-To: <20050119162616.GD9369@rdlg.net>
References: <20050119162616.GD9369@rdlg.net>
Message-ID: <41EEAFD8.3000207@3times25.net>

Robert L. Harris wrote:
> 
>   I'm doing a neat little database project for fun with a web front end.
> I've got a mysql database and some html forms running querries, etc.
> Actually rather fun.
> 
>   At any rate right now I've got 2 questions I'm hoping someone can help
> with.
> 
>   1) how do I rename the "Submit Querry" button.  Can't find any info on
>      w3.org

<input type=submit value="My button label">

>   2) Is there a way to either have the Submit button from #1 either load
>      into the same frame or put a close button into the resulting window
>      that pops up?  I hate having to constantly X out the summary
>      window.

I'm not sure I understand that question??

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Wed Jan 19 14:13:37 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Wed Jan 19 14:13:37 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: HTML, Forms and Buttons?
In-Reply-To: <20050119162616.GD9369@rdlg.net>
References: <20050119162616.GD9369@rdlg.net>
Message-ID: <41EEB054.1050500@3times25.net>

Robert L. Harris wrote:
> 
>   I'm doing a neat little database project for fun with a web front end.
> I've got a mysql database and some html forms running querries, etc.
> Actually rather fun.
> 
>   At any rate right now I've got 2 questions I'm hoping someone can help
> with.
> 
>   1) how do I rename the "Submit Querry" button.  Can't find any info on
>      w3.org
>   2) Is there a way to either have the Submit button from #1 either load
>      into the same frame or put a close button into the resulting window
>      that pops up?  I hate having to constantly X out the summary
>      window.

Generally, a submit does not cause a window to popup, so your code must 
be doing this.  You can control completely how all this works.  It can 
get complex.  I've done things like replaced submit buttons with 
graphics, have multiple windows controlled by a 'remote'.  In a lot of 
cases you'll have to deal with some javascript to get it done.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net  Wed Jan 19 14:15:32 2005
From: Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net (Robert L. Harris)
Date: Wed Jan 19 14:15:32 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: HTML, Forms and Buttons?
In-Reply-To: <41EEAFD8.3000207@3times25.net>
References: <20050119162616.GD9369@rdlg.net> <41EEAFD8.3000207@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <20050119191058.GO9369@rdlg.net>


Thus spake Geoffrey (esoteric at 3times25.net):
> 
> >  2) Is there a way to either have the Submit button from #1 either load
> >     into the same frame or put a close button into the resulting window
> >     that pops up?  I hate having to constantly X out the summary
> >     window.
> 
> I'm not sure I understand that question??
> 

  Ok, I'm converting my "project" at http://SoulForge.rdlg.net to CSS.
Jay provided a great link which explained the box issue I had.  Question
2 above is still a problem.  On the URL above, I want to click the
"Driving Directions" link in the left box and have it display in the
right box intead of opening a new window.  Still digging around some
documentation.


:wq!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert L. Harris                     | GPG Key ID: E344DA3B
                                         @ x-hkp://pgp.mit.edu
DISCLAIMER:
      These are MY OPINIONS             With Dreams To Be A King,
       ALONE.  I speak for              First One Should Be A Man
       no-one else.                       - Manowar

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From esoteric at 3times25.net  Wed Jan 19 14:20:27 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Wed Jan 19 14:20:27 2005
Subject: [ale] Allright, folks...
In-Reply-To: <1106155837.21729.19.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
References: <200501190822.1cRiB819H3NZFmi0@dove.mail.pas.earthlink.net>
	<1106155837.21729.19.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
Message-ID: <41EEB200.8060304@3times25.net>

Christopher Fowler wrote:
> It may be boring but getting paid to do nothing sure is great.

I've never gotten paid to do nothing.  I have, on the other hand, been 
paid to do research/study/training of my choice.  I guess it's just the 
way you look at it.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Wed Jan 19 14:23:53 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Wed Jan 19 14:23:53 2005
Subject: [ale] Thursday's NW Meeting - Room Change
In-Reply-To: <200501191237590171.02926E2A@mail.sixit.com>
References: <200501191237590171.02926E2A@mail.sixit.com>
Message-ID: <41EEB2D0.4060008@3times25.net>

Robert Reese wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> Thursday's NW ALE meeting will not be held in CL1007, unless you want to
> join me for a rousing evening of precalculus.  I'm not sure where it's
> going to be held, but needless to say I'll not be attending... not until
> 9:30, anyway.  Of course, if misery *really* loves company, you'll know
> where to find me.

Could someone from the school check into this please?  Do we not have a 
room for tomorrow?  Emil, are you around?  Anyone from the LUG?

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Wed Jan 19 14:26:03 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Wed Jan 19 14:26:03 2005
Subject: [ale] Making a backup with tar
In-Reply-To: <1106161017.64610.20884.camel@palm.tree.com>
References: <1106156788.21730.22.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
	<1106161017.64610.20884.camel@palm.tree.com>
Message-ID: <1106162502.21707.41.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>

I tried the -l option and it seemed that tar did not understand that
/sys was a different filesystem. I saw it walking that directory trying
to add those files.  /sys is sysfs.

On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 13:56, Stephan Uphoff wrote:
> --preserve on extraction always worked for me.
> 
> I recommend creating a backup file per file system with -l or
> --one-file-system using a relative path.
> 
> 	(cd /  ; tar cjvlf tarfile1.bz2 ./)
> 	(cd /usr ; tar cjvlf tarfile2.bz2 ./)
> 
> makes it easier to install from bare metal.
> 
> 
> On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 12:46, Christopher Fowler wrote:
> > I'm trying to create a file system backup using 'tar -cjpsvf
> > /bu/full.tar.bz2 /bin /boot /opt /home ...'.  When I extract the files
> > they are all owned by root.  Should I use the '--same-owner' option on
> > extraction?
> > 
> > Chris
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> > 
> > 


From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Wed Jan 19 14:27:03 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Wed Jan 19 14:27:03 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: HTML, Forms and Buttons?
In-Reply-To: <20050119191058.GO9369@rdlg.net>
References: <20050119162616.GD9369@rdlg.net> <41EEAFD8.3000207@3times25.net>
	<20050119191058.GO9369@rdlg.net>
Message-ID: <1106162564.16329.16.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>

On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 14:10 -0500, Robert L. Harris wrote:
> Thus spake Geoffrey (esoteric at 3times25.net):
> > 
> > >  2) Is there a way to either have the Submit button from #1 either load
> > >     into the same frame or put a close button into the resulting window
> > >     that pops up?  I hate having to constantly X out the summary
> > >     window.

...target='framename'
> > 
> > I'm not sure I understand that question??
> > 
> 
>   Ok, I'm converting my "project" at http://SoulForge.rdlg.net to CSS.
> Jay provided a great link which explained the box issue I had.  Question
> 2 above is still a problem.  On the URL above, I want to click the
> "Driving Directions" link in the left box and have it display in the
> right box intead of opening a new window.  Still digging around some
> documentation.
> 
> 
> :wq!
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Robert L. Harris                     | GPG Key ID: E344DA3B
>                                          @ x-hkp://pgp.mit.edu
> DISCLAIMER:
>       These are MY OPINIONS             With Dreams To Be A King,
>        ALONE.  I speak for              First One Should Be A Man
>        no-one else.                       - Manowar
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> !DSPAM:41eeb18a105352636315719!
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From jloden at toughguy.net  Wed Jan 19 14:28:03 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Wed Jan 19 14:28:03 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: HTML, Forms and Buttons?
In-Reply-To: <20050119191058.GO9369@rdlg.net>
References: <20050119162616.GD9369@rdlg.net> <41EEAFD8.3000207@3times25.net>
	<20050119191058.GO9369@rdlg.net>
Message-ID: <200501191421.18158.jloden@toughguy.net>

Why aren't you just using regular <a href= links? 
I might not be understanding the question, but you could just use plain old 

<a href="fmain.html">Main Screen</a>

 which would keep the site from opening a new window.
or are you specifically using the onMouseOver events for something?

-Jay

On Wednesday 19 January 2005 2:10, Robert L. Harris wrote:
> Thus spake Geoffrey (esoteric at 3times25.net):
> > >  2) Is there a way to either have the Submit button from #1 either load
> > >     into the same frame or put a close button into the resulting window
> > >     that pops up?  I hate having to constantly X out the summary
> > >     window.
> >
> > I'm not sure I understand that question??
>
>   Ok, I'm converting my "project" at http://SoulForge.rdlg.net to CSS.
> Jay provided a great link which explained the box issue I had.  Question
> 2 above is still a problem.  On the URL above, I want to click the
> "Driving Directions" link in the left box and have it display in the
> right box intead of opening a new window.  Still digging around some
> documentation.
>
> :wq!
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Robert L. Harris                     | GPG Key ID: E344DA3B
>                                          @ x-hkp://pgp.mit.edu
> DISCLAIMER:
>       These are MY OPINIONS             With Dreams To Be A King,
>        ALONE.  I speak for              First One Should Be A Man
>        no-one else.                       - Manowar


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Wed Jan 19 14:30:24 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Wed Jan 19 14:30:24 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: HTML, Forms and Buttons?
In-Reply-To: <20050119181708.GK9369@rdlg.net>
References: <200501191159.51027.jloden@toughguy.net>	<1110693860898483327@unknownmsgid>	<cd08a04c05011909247f38700e@mail.gmail.com>	<20050119173658.GB873@antichri.st>	<cd08a04c050119100150399d0b@mail.gmail.com>	<20050119180932.GD873@antichri.st>
	<20050119181708.GK9369@rdlg.net>
Message-ID: <41EEB451.60506@3times25.net>

Robert L. Harris wrote:
> 
> I don't use the frames to manage data.  The left frame is the index with
> links to perl/cgi scripts which give output in the right frame.  Most of
> these scripts have forms.  When I click the Submit button it opens a new
> window to display the output instead of overwriting the same window.
> The frames are used strictly for Navigation.  I've done a VERY little
> with CSS just for setting backgrounds and some text formatting.  If I
> can make it look better using CSS than www.rdlg.net looks I'd LOVE to do
> it.

You need to research the target= and name= syntax.  By naming your 
windows/frames you can put the data where you want it.  You could even 
have it write to the right frame rather then open a new window.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jasonday at worldnet.att.net  Wed Jan 19 14:31:37 2005
From: jasonday at worldnet.att.net (Jason Day)
Date: Wed Jan 19 14:31:37 2005
Subject: [ale] "easy to use" database
In-Reply-To: <41EE9D69.90206@mindspring.com>
References: <41EE9D69.90206@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20050119192612.GZ7913@worldnet.att.net>

On Wed, Jan 19, 2005 at 11:48:25AM -0600, Preston Boyington wrote:
> Here's what I "think" I need:
> 
> 1) A relatively easy to use database with (if possible) a web interface 
> so I can setup personal accounts.
> 
> 2) I want it to ledger monthly payments
> 
> 3) I would like it to have some type of search/report feature so I can 
> pull specific items of information from the personal accounts. (ie. all 
> birthdays in March, last payments made, if an account is overdue, etc)
> 
> 4) A "notes" feature so I can input information that doesn't neatly fit 
> into my designated fields.
> 
> 5) Some type of budgeting features so I can make projections, log 
> monthly expenditures, deposits, etc.
> 
> 6) Expandable so I can add the stuff I forget during the initial layout 
> (adding fields, etc)

These requirements describe an accounting or reporting application, not
a database.  A database like PostgreSQL only stores and retrieves the
raw data.  You will need a front-end application to do the reporting,
queries, data entry, etc.  Maybe SQL-Ledger will fit the bill?
http://www.sql-ledger.org/

-- 
Jason Day                                       jasonday at
http://jasonday.home.att.net                    worldnet dot att dot net
 
"Of course I'm paranoid, everyone is trying to kill me."
    -- Weyoun-6, Star Trek: Deep Space 9


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Wed Jan 19 14:32:30 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Wed Jan 19 14:32:30 2005
Subject: [ale] chown options
In-Reply-To: <20050119184049.GY7913@worldnet.att.net>
References: <043501c4fe3e$5bfb9ba0$6603a8c0@win2kpro1>	<41EE8362.90504@3times25.net>
	<20050119184049.GY7913@worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <41EEB4C0.8000608@3times25.net>

Jason Day wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 19, 2005 at 10:57:22AM -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> 
>>Ryan Fish wrote:
>>
>>>Hello all,
>>>
>>>Is it possible to perform a recursive chown but exclude one
>>>particular directory?  If so, how would it be done?  I have yet to
>>>find any info on this online so I figured I would ask...
>>
>>find . -print|grep -v $DIRECTORY_TO_EXCLUDE|xargs -n 10 chown foo.bar
> 
> 
> A slightly faster way:
> 
> chown -R foo.bar `find . -type d -print | grep -v $DIRECTORY_TO_EXCLUDE`

How is this faster?  You're invoking three processes, I'm invoking three 
processes.  In reality, I beleive the `` syntax is actually more costly 
then another pipe.  Feel free to prove me wrong though. :)


-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net  Wed Jan 19 14:36:36 2005
From: Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net (Robert L. Harris)
Date: Wed Jan 19 14:36:36 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: HTML, Forms and Buttons?
In-Reply-To: <200501191421.18158.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <20050119162616.GD9369@rdlg.net> <41EEAFD8.3000207@3times25.net>
	<20050119191058.GO9369@rdlg.net>
	<200501191421.18158.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <20050119193222.GQ9369@rdlg.net>



Ok, go to http://SoulForge.rdlg.net and Click the "Driving Directions"
link.

That page looks like this:

<html>
<head>
<title>SoulForge3 bits by Nomad</title>
   <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css"
href="http://SoulForge.rdlg.net/sf-style.css">
</head>


<div id="content">
<BR>
<A href="mailto:Robert.L.Harris at gmail.com">Send me Updates or Changes</a><BR> <BR>
<A href="http://soulforge.ipbhost.com" target=_top onMouseOver="window.status='SoulForge Forums'; return true">SoulForge Forums</a><BR> <BR>
<A href="fmain.html" onMouseOver="window.status='Main Screen'; return true">Main Screen</a><BR> <BR>
<A href="Directions.html" onMouseOver="window.status='Directions around town'; return true">Directions around town</a><BR> <BR>
</div>

<div id="content2">
<b><font SIZE=+4>Nomad's SoulForge links</font></b> <br> <br>
On this site I'm linking all the information and links I've created as
well as what I've collected from others.  If someone else created it
and I've mirrored it locallaly I'll put a "By" line.  If something is
incorrect please tell me, I may have been given bad information, etc.
<BR> <BR>
<img src="../images/kroy.gif">
</div>


When I click the "Driving Directions" link, it overwrites the whole
window, not just the "content2" box.  When I run some of my CGI's they
open a new window.  I haven't converted them to this new format yet,
doing that now.




Thus spake Jay Loden (jloden at toughguy.net):

> Why aren't you just using regular <a href= links? 
> I might not be understanding the question, but you could just use plain old 
> 
> <a href="fmain.html">Main Screen</a>
> 
>  which would keep the site from opening a new window.
> or are you specifically using the onMouseOver events for something?
> 
> -Jay
> 
> On Wednesday 19 January 2005 2:10, Robert L. Harris wrote:
> > Thus spake Geoffrey (esoteric at 3times25.net):
> > > >  2) Is there a way to either have the Submit button from #1 either load
> > > >     into the same frame or put a close button into the resulting window
> > > >     that pops up?  I hate having to constantly X out the summary
> > > >     window.
> > >
> > > I'm not sure I understand that question??
> >
> >   Ok, I'm converting my "project" at http://SoulForge.rdlg.net to CSS.
> > Jay provided a great link which explained the box issue I had.  Question
> > 2 above is still a problem.  On the URL above, I want to click the
> > "Driving Directions" link in the left box and have it display in the
> > right box intead of opening a new window.  Still digging around some
> > documentation.
> >
> > :wq!
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Robert L. Harris                     | GPG Key ID: E344DA3B
> >                                          @ x-hkp://pgp.mit.edu
> > DISCLAIMER:
> >       These are MY OPINIONS             With Dreams To Be A King,
> >        ALONE.  I speak for              First One Should Be A Man
> >        no-one else.                       - Manowar
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
>  ** CRM114 Whitelisted by: mit.edu **

:wq!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert L. Harris                     | GPG Key ID: E344DA3B
                                         @ x-hkp://pgp.mit.edu
DISCLAIMER:
      These are MY OPINIONS             With Dreams To Be A King,
       ALONE.  I speak for              First One Should Be A Man
       no-one else.                       - Manowar

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From matthew.brown at cordata.com  Wed Jan 19 14:41:59 2005
From: matthew.brown at cordata.com (Matthew Brown)
Date: Wed Jan 19 14:41:59 2005
Subject: [ale] "easy to use" database
In-Reply-To: <20050119192612.GZ7913@worldnet.att.net>
References: <41EE9D69.90206@mindspring.com>
	<20050119192612.GZ7913@worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <41EEB6FD.6030700@cordata.com>

I have been reviewing SQL-Ledger for my business.  I've been very impressed!

Matthew Brown, CorData
Linux Solutions for Small Business
o: 770-795-0089
e: matthew.brown at cordata.com



Jason Day wrote:

>On Wed, Jan 19, 2005 at 11:48:25AM -0600, Preston Boyington wrote:
>  
>
>>Here's what I "think" I need:
>>
>>1) A relatively easy to use database with (if possible) a web interface 
>>so I can setup personal accounts.
>>
>>2) I want it to ledger monthly payments
>>
>>3) I would like it to have some type of search/report feature so I can 
>>pull specific items of information from the personal accounts. (ie. all 
>>birthdays in March, last payments made, if an account is overdue, etc)
>>
>>4) A "notes" feature so I can input information that doesn't neatly fit 
>>into my designated fields.
>>
>>5) Some type of budgeting features so I can make projections, log 
>>monthly expenditures, deposits, etc.
>>
>>6) Expandable so I can add the stuff I forget during the initial layout 
>>(adding fields, etc)
>>    
>>
>
>These requirements describe an accounting or reporting application, not
>a database.  A database like PostgreSQL only stores and retrieves the
>raw data.  You will need a front-end application to do the reporting,
>queries, data entry, etc.  Maybe SQL-Ledger will fit the bill?
>http://www.sql-ledger.org/
>
>  
>
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From ups at tree.com  Wed Jan 19 14:43:26 2005
From: ups at tree.com (Stephan Uphoff)
Date: Wed Jan 19 14:43:26 2005
Subject: [ale] Making a backup with tar
In-Reply-To: <1106162502.21707.41.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
References: <1106156788.21730.22.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
	<1106161017.64610.20884.camel@palm.tree.com>
	<1106162502.21707.41.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
Message-ID: <1106163543.64610.21034.camel@palm.tree.com>

On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 14:21, Christopher Fowler wrote:
> I tried the -l option and it seemed that tar did not understand that
> /sys was a different filesystem. I saw it walking that directory trying
> to add those files.  /sys is sysfs.

Works on my laptop.

sunburn:/# tar clvf /dev/null ./
./sys/
tar: ./sys/: file is on a different filesystem; not dumped


sunburn:/# stat /
  File: `/'
  Size: 4096            Blocks: 8          IO Block: 4096   directory
Device: 302h/770d       Inode: 2           Links: 21
Access: (0755/drwxr-xr-x)  Uid: (    0/    root)   Gid: (    0/    root)
Access: 2004-05-05 07:35:04.000000000 -0400
Modify: 2004-05-13 11:51:46.000000000 -0400
Change: 2004-05-13 11:51:46.000000000 -0400

sunburn:/# stat /sys/
  File: `/sys/'
  Size: 0               Blocks: 0          IO Block: 4096   directory
Device: 0h/0d   Inode: 1           Links: 8
Access: (0755/drwxr-xr-x)  Uid: (    0/    root)   Gid: (    0/    root)
Access: 2005-01-19 14:26:21.000000000 -0500
Modify: 2005-01-11 12:32:29.000000000 -0500
Change: 2005-01-11 12:32:29.000000000 -0500

sunburn:/# uname -a
Linux sunburn 2.6.5 #1 Mon May 3 17:45:45 EDT 2004 i686 GNU/Linux

sunburn:/# tar --version
tar (GNU tar) 1.13.93
Copyright (C) 2003 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
This program comes with NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law.
You may redistribute it under the terms of the GNU General Public
License;
see the file named COPYING for details.
Written by John Gilmore and Jay Fenlason.

> 
> On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 13:56, Stephan Uphoff wrote:
> > --preserve on extraction always worked for me.
> > 
> > I recommend creating a backup file per file system with -l or
> > --one-file-system using a relative path.
> > 
> > 	(cd /  ; tar cjvlf tarfile1.bz2 ./)
> > 	(cd /usr ; tar cjvlf tarfile2.bz2 ./)
> > 
> > makes it easier to install from bare metal.
> > 
> > 
> > On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 12:46, Christopher Fowler wrote:
> > > I'm trying to create a file system backup using 'tar -cjpsvf
> > > /bu/full.tar.bz2 /bin /boot /opt /home ...'.  When I extract the files
> > > they are all owned by root.  Should I use the '--same-owner' option on
> > > extraction?
> > > 
> > > Chris
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ale mailing list
> > > Ale at ale.org
> > > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> > > 
> > > 
> 
> 
> 


From preston.boyington at mindspring.com  Wed Jan 19 14:49:33 2005
From: preston.boyington at mindspring.com (Preston Boyington)
Date: Wed Jan 19 14:49:33 2005
Subject: [ale] "easy to use" database
In-Reply-To: <cd08a04c050119100470f814ed@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41EE9D69.90206@mindspring.com>	<1106157371.21717.24.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
	<cd08a04c050119100470f814ed@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41EEB892.4050705@mindspring.com>

Warren Myers wrote:
> I guess I don't understand what you are trying to do very well. Are
> you trying to build a personal checkbook manager that runs through a
> web interface? PostgreSQL, MySQL, SQLite should all do the trick.
> 
> I'm, most familiar with pgsql and mysql interfacing to PHP to build
> the front-end.
> 
> WMM
> 

It would be used at a local church for their "Women's day out" program 
(it's like a baby-sitting service).  Like most things it has a 
shoestring budget and is mainly volunteer run.

so it would be things like: who are paige's parents, who can pick jill 
up, what's johnny alergic to, when did suzie have her shots...

Preston


From cor.angela at mindspring.com  Wed Jan 19 14:55:50 2005
From: cor.angela at mindspring.com (Cor van Dijk)
Date: Wed Jan 19 14:55:50 2005
Subject: [ale] Upgrade hell
In-Reply-To: <41EE769D.3060903@3times25.net>
References: <s1ee2d2c.021@inet.eastcobbgroup.com>
	<41EE769D.3060903@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <41EEBB5E.5060709@mindspring.com>

Geoffrey wrote:

> James Taylor wrote:
>
>> I downloaded the DVD from SuSE a couple of days ago, and installed it on
>> an AMD64 machine yesterday.  There's way too much of what I use missing
>> from the download DVD.
>> I went ahead and installed it anyway because I loaned my retail DVD out
>> and haven't gotten it back yet.  The CDs don't include the 64-bit kernel
>> as an option...
>
>
> Maybe that's the difference between the two?  Seems the retail boxed 
> version is about twice the size of the download.
>
Greetings,

Thanks to all who responded to my problem.

1. The card in the laptop is a generic Trident Cyberblade
2. The system only hangs when in an X GUI, this points to a software problem
     rather than a chipset probem
3. Upgrading is the most obvious solution, though it is not guaranteed 
to work;
       it is also the easy way out. Remember what the "e" in "ale" 
stands for, we
       tackle problems don't we?
4. Talking about paying "through the nose", my dialup is half the price 
of a DSL.
    Downloading 7 GB over a dialup connection?
    That difference easily pays for a boxed set once a  year.
5. I am going to try my Suse 8.2 now, in tiny lettering on the box it 
says that it
    will work on a laptop, not sure about usb support, but will probably 
find out.
6. I do appreciate all comments, keep up the good work!

Cor van Dijk


From jloden at toughguy.net  Wed Jan 19 14:59:55 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Wed Jan 19 14:59:55 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: HTML, Forms and Buttons?
In-Reply-To: <20050119193222.GQ9369@rdlg.net>
References: <20050119162616.GD9369@rdlg.net>
	<200501191421.18158.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<20050119193222.GQ9369@rdlg.net>
Message-ID: <200501191453.24336.jloden@toughguy.net>

Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with what you're doing with the onMouseOver 
stuff, so I don't know what effects it would have that might be part of your 
problem.  Hopefully someone else on the list will have more helpful 
advice. :-/

On my site, any link clicked overwrites the entire page, not just the middle 
content div, but since you're technically loading through the php, the side 
effect is that you have already cached the rest of the page because it's all 
one php script that you load on the first visit - so my page "sorta" loads 
only the changed content :)

-Jay

On Wednesday 19 January 2005 2:32, Robert L. Harris wrote:
> When I click the "Driving Directions" link, it overwrites the whole
> window, not just the "content2" box.  When I run some of my CGI's they
> open a new window.  I haven't converted them to this new format yet,
> doing that now.


From Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net  Wed Jan 19 15:03:26 2005
From: Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net (Robert L. Harris)
Date: Wed Jan 19 15:03:26 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: HTML, Forms and Buttons?
In-Reply-To: <200501191453.24336.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <20050119162616.GD9369@rdlg.net>
	<200501191421.18158.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<20050119193222.GQ9369@rdlg.net>
	<200501191453.24336.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <20050119195907.GR9369@rdlg.net>



The onMouseOver just puts that text in the bottom of the browser's info
bar instead of showing the link.

I'm looking into Server Side Includes as that's probably the best way
right now.  Just gotta figure out why it's not working :>  The
"UnderDark" link should be including the Navindex.shtml file but it's
not.  Yes, I enabled SSI in my apache2.conf.



Thus spake Jay Loden (jloden at toughguy.net):

> Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with what you're doing with the onMouseOver 
> stuff, so I don't know what effects it would have that might be part of your 
> problem.  Hopefully someone else on the list will have more helpful 
> advice. :-/
> 
> On my site, any link clicked overwrites the entire page, not just the middle 
> content div, but since you're technically loading through the php, the side 
> effect is that you have already cached the rest of the page because it's all 
> one php script that you load on the first visit - so my page "sorta" loads 
> only the changed content :)
> 
> -Jay
> 
> On Wednesday 19 January 2005 2:32, Robert L. Harris wrote:
> > When I click the "Driving Directions" link, it overwrites the whole
> > window, not just the "content2" box.  When I run some of my CGI's they
> > open a new window.  I haven't converted them to this new format yet,
> > doing that now.
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

:wq!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert L. Harris                     | GPG Key ID: E344DA3B
                                         @ x-hkp://pgp.mit.edu
DISCLAIMER:
      These are MY OPINIONS             With Dreams To Be A King,
       ALONE.  I speak for              First One Should Be A Man
       no-one else.                       - Manowar

-------------- next part --------------
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From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Wed Jan 19 15:19:34 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Wed Jan 19 15:19:34 2005
Subject: [ale] Making a backup with tar
In-Reply-To: <1106163543.64610.21034.camel@palm.tree.com>
References: <1106156788.21730.22.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
	<1106161017.64610.20884.camel@palm.tree.com>
	<1106162502.21707.41.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
	<1106163543.64610.21034.camel@palm.tree.com>
Message-ID: <1106165701.21730.52.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>

tar -cjpslf /bu/FC2-SAM-011905.tar.bz2 /bin/ /boot/ /dev/ /etc/ /home/
/initrd/ /lib/ /lost+found/ /misc/ /mnt/ /opt/ /proc /root/ /sbin/
/selinux/ /sys /tmp /usr /var

tar: /sys/class/netlink/skip/dev: File shrank by 0 bytes; padding with
zeros
tar: /sys/class/netlink/route/dev: File shrank by 3072 bytes; padding
with zeros

Maybe one of my command-line options is negating the use of -l ?


On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 14:39, Stephan Uphoff wrote:
> On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 14:21, Christopher Fowler wrote:
> > I tried the -l option and it seemed that tar did not understand that
> > /sys was a different filesystem. I saw it walking that directory trying
> > to add those files.  /sys is sysfs.
> 
> Works on my laptop.
> 
> sunburn:/# tar clvf /dev/null ./
> ./sys/
> tar: ./sys/: file is on a different filesystem; not dumped
> 
> 
> sunburn:/# stat /
>   File: `/'
>   Size: 4096            Blocks: 8          IO Block: 4096   directory
> Device: 302h/770d       Inode: 2           Links: 21
> Access: (0755/drwxr-xr-x)  Uid: (    0/    root)   Gid: (    0/    root)
> Access: 2004-05-05 07:35:04.000000000 -0400
> Modify: 2004-05-13 11:51:46.000000000 -0400
> Change: 2004-05-13 11:51:46.000000000 -0400
> 
> sunburn:/# stat /sys/
>   File: `/sys/'
>   Size: 0               Blocks: 0          IO Block: 4096   directory
> Device: 0h/0d   Inode: 1           Links: 8
> Access: (0755/drwxr-xr-x)  Uid: (    0/    root)   Gid: (    0/    root)
> Access: 2005-01-19 14:26:21.000000000 -0500
> Modify: 2005-01-11 12:32:29.000000000 -0500
> Change: 2005-01-11 12:32:29.000000000 -0500
> 
> sunburn:/# uname -a
> Linux sunburn 2.6.5 #1 Mon May 3 17:45:45 EDT 2004 i686 GNU/Linux
> 
> sunburn:/# tar --version
> tar (GNU tar) 1.13.93
> Copyright (C) 2003 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
> This program comes with NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law.
> You may redistribute it under the terms of the GNU General Public
> License;
> see the file named COPYING for details.
> Written by John Gilmore and Jay Fenlason.
> 
> > 
> > On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 13:56, Stephan Uphoff wrote:
> > > --preserve on extraction always worked for me.
> > > 
> > > I recommend creating a backup file per file system with -l or
> > > --one-file-system using a relative path.
> > > 
> > > 	(cd /  ; tar cjvlf tarfile1.bz2 ./)
> > > 	(cd /usr ; tar cjvlf tarfile2.bz2 ./)
> > > 
> > > makes it easier to install from bare metal.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 12:46, Christopher Fowler wrote:
> > > > I'm trying to create a file system backup using 'tar -cjpsvf
> > > > /bu/full.tar.bz2 /bin /boot /opt /home ...'.  When I extract the files
> > > > they are all owned by root.  Should I use the '--same-owner' option on
> > > > extraction?
> > > > 
> > > > Chris
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Ale mailing list
> > > > Ale at ale.org
> > > > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 19 15:34:35 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Wed Jan 19 15:34:35 2005
Subject: [ale] Upgrade hell
In-Reply-To: <41EEBB5E.5060709@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20050119203024.75368.qmail@web54401.mail.yahoo.com>

Dude...  I'll happily bring you the discs of your
choice.  That version is also ancient...


--- Cor van Dijk <cor.angela at mindspring.com> wrote:

> Geoffrey wrote:
> 
> > James Taylor wrote:
> >
> >> I downloaded the DVD from SuSE a couple of days
> ago, and installed it on
> >> an AMD64 machine yesterday.  There's way too much
> of what I use missing
> >> from the download DVD.
> >> I went ahead and installed it anyway because I
> loaned my retail DVD out
> >> and haven't gotten it back yet.  The CDs don't
> include the 64-bit kernel
> >> as an option...
> >
> >
> > Maybe that's the difference between the two? 
> Seems the retail boxed 
> > version is about twice the size of the download.
> >
> Greetings,
> 
> Thanks to all who responded to my problem.
> 
> 1. The card in the laptop is a generic Trident
> Cyberblade
> 2. The system only hangs when in an X GUI, this
> points to a software problem
>      rather than a chipset probem
> 3. Upgrading is the most obvious solution, though it
> is not guaranteed 
> to work;
>        it is also the easy way out. Remember what
> the "e" in "ale" 
> stands for, we
>        tackle problems don't we?
> 4. Talking about paying "through the nose", my
> dialup is half the price 
> of a DSL.
>     Downloading 7 GB over a dialup connection?
>     That difference easily pays for a boxed set once
> a  year.
> 5. I am going to try my Suse 8.2 now, in tiny
> lettering on the box it 
> says that it
>     will work on a laptop, not sure about usb
> support, but will probably 
> find out.
> 6. I do appreciate all comments, keep up the good
> work!
> 
> Cor van Dijk
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 


From ups at tree.com  Wed Jan 19 15:36:21 2005
From: ups at tree.com (Stephan Uphoff)
Date: Wed Jan 19 15:36:21 2005
Subject: [ale] Making a backup with tar
In-Reply-To: <1106165701.21730.52.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
References: <1106156788.21730.22.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
	<1106161017.64610.20884.camel@palm.tree.com>
	<1106162502.21707.41.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
	<1106163543.64610.21034.camel@palm.tree.com>
	<1106165701.21730.52.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
Message-ID: <1106166730.64610.21260.camel@palm.tree.com>

On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 15:15, Christopher Fowler wrote:
> tar -cjpslf /bu/FC2-SAM-011905.tar.bz2 /bin/ /boot/ /dev/ /etc/ /home/
> /initrd/ /lib/ /lost+found/ /misc/ /mnt/ /opt/ /proc /root/ /sbin/
> /selinux/ /sys /tmp /usr /var
------------^^^^

Try removing /sys from you command line ;-)

> 
> tar: /sys/class/netlink/skip/dev: File shrank by 0 bytes; padding with
> zeros
> tar: /sys/class/netlink/route/dev: File shrank by 3072 bytes; padding
> with zeros
> 
> Maybe one of my command-line options is negating the use of -l ?
> 
> 
> On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 14:39, Stephan Uphoff wrote:
> > On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 14:21, Christopher Fowler wrote:
> > > I tried the -l option and it seemed that tar did not understand that
> > > /sys was a different filesystem. I saw it walking that directory trying
> > > to add those files.  /sys is sysfs.
> > 
> > Works on my laptop.
> > 
> > sunburn:/# tar clvf /dev/null ./
> > ./sys/
> > tar: ./sys/: file is on a different filesystem; not dumped
> > 
> > 
> > sunburn:/# stat /
> >   File: `/'
> >   Size: 4096            Blocks: 8          IO Block: 4096   directory
> > Device: 302h/770d       Inode: 2           Links: 21
> > Access: (0755/drwxr-xr-x)  Uid: (    0/    root)   Gid: (    0/    root)
> > Access: 2004-05-05 07:35:04.000000000 -0400
> > Modify: 2004-05-13 11:51:46.000000000 -0400
> > Change: 2004-05-13 11:51:46.000000000 -0400
> > 
> > sunburn:/# stat /sys/
> >   File: `/sys/'
> >   Size: 0               Blocks: 0          IO Block: 4096   directory
> > Device: 0h/0d   Inode: 1           Links: 8
> > Access: (0755/drwxr-xr-x)  Uid: (    0/    root)   Gid: (    0/    root)
> > Access: 2005-01-19 14:26:21.000000000 -0500
> > Modify: 2005-01-11 12:32:29.000000000 -0500
> > Change: 2005-01-11 12:32:29.000000000 -0500
> > 
> > sunburn:/# uname -a
> > Linux sunburn 2.6.5 #1 Mon May 3 17:45:45 EDT 2004 i686 GNU/Linux
> > 
> > sunburn:/# tar --version
> > tar (GNU tar) 1.13.93
> > Copyright (C) 2003 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
> > This program comes with NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law.
> > You may redistribute it under the terms of the GNU General Public
> > License;
> > see the file named COPYING for details.
> > Written by John Gilmore and Jay Fenlason.
> > 
> > > 
> > > On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 13:56, Stephan Uphoff wrote:
> > > > --preserve on extraction always worked for me.
> > > > 
> > > > I recommend creating a backup file per file system with -l or
> > > > --one-file-system using a relative path.
> > > > 
> > > > 	(cd /  ; tar cjvlf tarfile1.bz2 ./)
> > > > 	(cd /usr ; tar cjvlf tarfile2.bz2 ./)
> > > > 
> > > > makes it easier to install from bare metal.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 12:46, Christopher Fowler wrote:
> > > > > I'm trying to create a file system backup using 'tar -cjpsvf
> > > > > /bu/full.tar.bz2 /bin /boot /opt /home ...'.  When I extract the files
> > > > > they are all owned by root.  Should I use the '--same-owner' option on
> > > > > extraction?
> > > > > 
> > > > > Chris
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Ale mailing list
> > > > > Ale at ale.org
> > > > > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> 
> 
> 


From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Wed Jan 19 15:53:52 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Wed Jan 19 15:53:52 2005
Subject: [ale] Making a backup with tar
In-Reply-To: <1106166730.64610.21260.camel@palm.tree.com>
References: <1106156788.21730.22.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
	<1106161017.64610.20884.camel@palm.tree.com>
	<1106162502.21707.41.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
	<1106163543.64610.21034.camel@palm.tree.com>
	<1106165701.21730.52.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
	<1106166730.64610.21260.camel@palm.tree.com>
Message-ID: <1106167761.21707.67.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>

On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 15:32, Stephan Uphoff wrote:
> On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 15:15, Christopher Fowler wrote:
> > tar -cjpslf /bu/FC2-SAM-011905.tar.bz2 /bin/ /boot/ /dev/ /etc/ /home/
> > /initrd/ /lib/ /lost+found/ /misc/ /mnt/ /opt/ /proc /root/ /sbin/
> > /selinux/ /sys /tmp /usr /var
> ------------^^^^
> 
> Try removing /sys from you command line ;-)
> 

Yep.  How do I omit a directory.  /bu is on root and I do not want  /bu
backed up

> > 
> > tar: /sys/class/netlink/skip/dev: File shrank by 0 bytes; padding with
> > zeros
> > tar: /sys/class/netlink/route/dev: File shrank by 3072 bytes; padding
> > with zeros
> > 
> > Maybe one of my command-line options is negating the use of -l ?
> > 
> > 
> > On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 14:39, Stephan Uphoff wrote:
> > > On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 14:21, Christopher Fowler wrote:
> > > > I tried the -l option and it seemed that tar did not understand that
> > > > /sys was a different filesystem. I saw it walking that directory trying
> > > > to add those files.  /sys is sysfs.
> > > 
> > > Works on my laptop.
> > > 
> > > sunburn:/# tar clvf /dev/null ./
> > > ./sys/
> > > tar: ./sys/: file is on a different filesystem; not dumped
> > > 
> > > 
> > > sunburn:/# stat /
> > >   File: `/'
> > >   Size: 4096            Blocks: 8          IO Block: 4096   directory
> > > Device: 302h/770d       Inode: 2           Links: 21
> > > Access: (0755/drwxr-xr-x)  Uid: (    0/    root)   Gid: (    0/    root)
> > > Access: 2004-05-05 07:35:04.000000000 -0400
> > > Modify: 2004-05-13 11:51:46.000000000 -0400
> > > Change: 2004-05-13 11:51:46.000000000 -0400
> > > 
> > > sunburn:/# stat /sys/
> > >   File: `/sys/'
> > >   Size: 0               Blocks: 0          IO Block: 4096   directory
> > > Device: 0h/0d   Inode: 1           Links: 8
> > > Access: (0755/drwxr-xr-x)  Uid: (    0/    root)   Gid: (    0/    root)
> > > Access: 2005-01-19 14:26:21.000000000 -0500
> > > Modify: 2005-01-11 12:32:29.000000000 -0500
> > > Change: 2005-01-11 12:32:29.000000000 -0500
> > > 
> > > sunburn:/# uname -a
> > > Linux sunburn 2.6.5 #1 Mon May 3 17:45:45 EDT 2004 i686 GNU/Linux
> > > 
> > > sunburn:/# tar --version
> > > tar (GNU tar) 1.13.93
> > > Copyright (C) 2003 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
> > > This program comes with NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law.
> > > You may redistribute it under the terms of the GNU General Public
> > > License;
> > > see the file named COPYING for details.
> > > Written by John Gilmore and Jay Fenlason.
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 13:56, Stephan Uphoff wrote:
> > > > > --preserve on extraction always worked for me.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I recommend creating a backup file per file system with -l or
> > > > > --one-file-system using a relative path.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 	(cd /  ; tar cjvlf tarfile1.bz2 ./)
> > > > > 	(cd /usr ; tar cjvlf tarfile2.bz2 ./)
> > > > > 
> > > > > makes it easier to install from bare metal.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 12:46, Christopher Fowler wrote:
> > > > > > I'm trying to create a file system backup using 'tar -cjpsvf
> > > > > > /bu/full.tar.bz2 /bin /boot /opt /home ...'.  When I extract the files
> > > > > > they are all owned by root.  Should I use the '--same-owner' option on
> > > > > > extraction?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Chris
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Ale mailing list
> > > > > > Ale at ale.org
> > > > > > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 


From jasonday at worldnet.att.net  Wed Jan 19 16:13:48 2005
From: jasonday at worldnet.att.net (Jason Day)
Date: Wed Jan 19 16:13:48 2005
Subject: [ale] chown options
In-Reply-To: <41EEB4C0.8000608@3times25.net>
References: <043501c4fe3e$5bfb9ba0$6603a8c0@win2kpro1>
	<41EE8362.90504@3times25.net>
	<20050119184049.GY7913@worldnet.att.net>
	<41EEB4C0.8000608@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <20050119210931.GB7913@worldnet.att.net>

On Wed, Jan 19, 2005 at 02:28:00PM -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> >>find . -print|grep -v $DIRECTORY_TO_EXCLUDE|xargs -n 10 chown foo.bar
> >
> >
> >A slightly faster way:
> >
> >chown -R foo.bar `find . -type d -print | grep -v $DIRECTORY_TO_EXCLUDE`
> 
> How is this faster?  You're invoking three processes, I'm invoking three 
> processes.  In reality, I beleive the `` syntax is actually more costly 
> then another pipe.  Feel free to prove me wrong though. :)

My way only invokes chown once.  Using xargs, if I understand it
correctly, will invoke chown N mod 10 times, where N equals the number
of files and subdirectories in the current directory and beneath.

Also, note that I only searched for directories, and did a "chown -R
foo.bar" on each directory, whereas you executed "chown foo.bar" on each
file.

And actually, now that I think about that a little more, my way won't
work at all, unless $DIRECTORY_TO_EXCLUDE is in the current directory.
Thinking a little more, my way will probably be slower, because the
recursive chown will chown everything in subdirectories multiple times.
Ack! Disregard my last post!

Jason
-- 
Jason Day                                       jasonday at
http://jasonday.home.att.net                    worldnet dot att dot net
 
"Of course I'm paranoid, everyone is trying to kill me."
    -- Weyoun-6, Star Trek: Deep Space 9


From jrickman at gmail.com  Wed Jan 19 16:19:53 2005
From: jrickman at gmail.com (Jonathan Rickman)
Date: Wed Jan 19 16:19:53 2005
Subject: [ale] Apple WebObjects
Message-ID: <2802c52205011913151b0fafa@mail.gmail.com>

Any WebObjects developers on the list? I have a few basic questions
that could lead to a job opportunity.

--
Jonathan


From ups at tree.com  Wed Jan 19 16:23:33 2005
From: ups at tree.com (Stephan Uphoff)
Date: Wed Jan 19 16:23:33 2005
Subject: [ale] Making a backup with tar
In-Reply-To: <1106167761.21707.67.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
References: <1106156788.21730.22.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
	<1106161017.64610.20884.camel@palm.tree.com>
	<1106162502.21707.41.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
	<1106163543.64610.21034.camel@palm.tree.com>
	<1106165701.21730.52.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
	<1106166730.64610.21260.camel@palm.tree.com>
	<1106167761.21707.67.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
Message-ID: <1106169470.64610.21401.camel@palm.tree.com>

On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 15:49, Christopher Fowler wrote:
> On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 15:32, Stephan Uphoff wrote:
> > On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 15:15, Christopher Fowler wrote:
> > > tar -cjpslf /bu/FC2-SAM-011905.tar.bz2 /bin/ /boot/ /dev/ /etc/ /home/
> > > /initrd/ /lib/ /lost+found/ /misc/ /mnt/ /opt/ /proc /root/ /sbin/
> > > /selinux/ /sys /tmp /usr /var
> > ------------^^^^
> > 
> > Try removing /sys from you command line ;-)
> > 
> 
> Yep.  How do I omit a directory.  /bu is on root and I do not want  /bu
> backed up

( cd / ; tar -cjl --exclude  ./bu  -f /bu/FC2-SAM-011905.tar.bz2 ./)
tar -cjl --exclude  /bu  -f /bu/FC2-SAM-011905.tar.bz2 /

another important command is "man tar" ;-)

	Stephan


> > > 
> > > tar: /sys/class/netlink/skip/dev: File shrank by 0 bytes; padding with
> > > zeros
> > > tar: /sys/class/netlink/route/dev: File shrank by 3072 bytes; padding
> > > with zeros
> > > 
> > > Maybe one of my command-line options is negating the use of -l ?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 14:39, Stephan Uphoff wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 14:21, Christopher Fowler wrote:
> > > > > I tried the -l option and it seemed that tar did not understand that
> > > > > /sys was a different filesystem. I saw it walking that directory trying
> > > > > to add those files.  /sys is sysfs.
> > > > 
> > > > Works on my laptop.
> > > > 
> > > > sunburn:/# tar clvf /dev/null ./
> > > > ./sys/
> > > > tar: ./sys/: file is on a different filesystem; not dumped
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > sunburn:/# stat /
> > > >   File: `/'
> > > >   Size: 4096            Blocks: 8          IO Block: 4096   directory
> > > > Device: 302h/770d       Inode: 2           Links: 21
> > > > Access: (0755/drwxr-xr-x)  Uid: (    0/    root)   Gid: (    0/    root)
> > > > Access: 2004-05-05 07:35:04.000000000 -0400
> > > > Modify: 2004-05-13 11:51:46.000000000 -0400
> > > > Change: 2004-05-13 11:51:46.000000000 -0400
> > > > 
> > > > sunburn:/# stat /sys/
> > > >   File: `/sys/'
> > > >   Size: 0               Blocks: 0          IO Block: 4096   directory
> > > > Device: 0h/0d   Inode: 1           Links: 8
> > > > Access: (0755/drwxr-xr-x)  Uid: (    0/    root)   Gid: (    0/    root)
> > > > Access: 2005-01-19 14:26:21.000000000 -0500
> > > > Modify: 2005-01-11 12:32:29.000000000 -0500
> > > > Change: 2005-01-11 12:32:29.000000000 -0500
> > > > 
> > > > sunburn:/# uname -a
> > > > Linux sunburn 2.6.5 #1 Mon May 3 17:45:45 EDT 2004 i686 GNU/Linux
> > > > 
> > > > sunburn:/# tar --version
> > > > tar (GNU tar) 1.13.93
> > > > Copyright (C) 2003 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
> > > > This program comes with NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law.
> > > > You may redistribute it under the terms of the GNU General Public
> > > > License;
> > > > see the file named COPYING for details.
> > > > Written by John Gilmore and Jay Fenlason.
> > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 13:56, Stephan Uphoff wrote:
> > > > > > --preserve on extraction always worked for me.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I recommend creating a backup file per file system with -l or
> > > > > > --one-file-system using a relative path.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 	(cd /  ; tar cjvlf tarfile1.bz2 ./)
> > > > > > 	(cd /usr ; tar cjvlf tarfile2.bz2 ./)
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > makes it easier to install from bare metal.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 12:46, Christopher Fowler wrote:
> > > > > > > I'm trying to create a file system backup using 'tar -cjpsvf
> > > > > > > /bu/full.tar.bz2 /bin /boot /opt /home ...'.  When I extract the files
> > > > > > > they are all owned by root.  Should I use the '--same-owner' option on
> > > > > > > extraction?
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Chris
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Ale mailing list
> > > > > > > Ale at ale.org
> > > > > > > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> 
> 
> 


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Wed Jan 19 17:15:34 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Wed Jan 19 17:15:34 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: HTML, Forms and Buttons?
In-Reply-To: <20050119195907.GR9369@rdlg.net>
References: <20050119162616.GD9369@rdlg.net>	<200501191421.18158.jloden@toughguy.net>	<20050119193222.GQ9369@rdlg.net>	<200501191453.24336.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<20050119195907.GR9369@rdlg.net>
Message-ID: <41EEDB08.6070405@3times25.net>

Robert L. Harris wrote:
> 
> The onMouseOver just puts that text in the bottom of the browser's info
> bar instead of showing the link.

That's simply a little javascript, has nothing to do with the problem 
you're experiencing.

> I'm looking into Server Side Includes as that's probably the best way
> right now.  Just gotta figure out why it's not working :>  The
> "UnderDark" link should be including the Navindex.shtml file but it's
> not.  Yes, I enabled SSI in my apache2.conf.


-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From brandon at geekrus.net  Wed Jan 19 17:18:03 2005
From: brandon at geekrus.net (Brandon Colbert)
Date: Wed Jan 19 17:18:03 2005
Subject: [ale] Hylafax and Vonage
Message-ID: <41EEDB4D.70108@geekrus.net>

Upon switching to Vonage, we have lost the ability to connect with
many of our clients.  30-40% of incoming faxes don't complete and
about the same number of outgoing ones do not complete. Are there any special settings in hylafax to get it to work correctly over VOIP?


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Wed Jan 19 17:20:06 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Wed Jan 19 17:20:06 2005
Subject: [ale] chown options
In-Reply-To: <20050119210931.GB7913@worldnet.att.net>
References: <043501c4fe3e$5bfb9ba0$6603a8c0@win2kpro1>	<41EE8362.90504@3times25.net>	<20050119184049.GY7913@worldnet.att.net>	<41EEB4C0.8000608@3times25.net>
	<20050119210931.GB7913@worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <41EEDC14.8070201@3times25.net>

Jason Day wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 19, 2005 at 02:28:00PM -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> 
>>>>find . -print|grep -v $DIRECTORY_TO_EXCLUDE|xargs -n 10 chown foo.bar
>>>
>>>
>>>A slightly faster way:
>>>
>>>chown -R foo.bar `find . -type d -print | grep -v $DIRECTORY_TO_EXCLUDE`
>>
>>How is this faster?  You're invoking three processes, I'm invoking three 
>>processes.  In reality, I beleive the `` syntax is actually more costly 
>>then another pipe.  Feel free to prove me wrong though. :)
> 
> 
> My way only invokes chown once.  Using xargs, if I understand it
> correctly, will invoke chown N mod 10 times, where N equals the number
> of files and subdirectories in the current directory and beneath.

Right, but if the number of files is too large, which is very likely to 
happen your solution won't work at all as you'll get a broken pipe.

Hence the reason I threw in the '-n 10'  You could certainly jump it up 
to say, 1000, but your solution will attempt to chown all the files and 
likely will puke and not work at all.

> 
> Also, note that I only searched for directories, and did a "chown -R
> foo.bar" on each directory, whereas you executed "chown foo.bar" on each
> file.

My follow solution used chown -R as well.

> 
> And actually, now that I think about that a little more, my way won't
> work at all, unless $DIRECTORY_TO_EXCLUDE is in the current directory.
> Thinking a little more, my way will probably be slower, because the
> recursive chown will chown everything in subdirectories multiple times.
> Ack! Disregard my last post!

Not necessarily, this has been a good discussion. :)


-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Wed Jan 19 17:22:48 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Wed Jan 19 17:22:48 2005
Subject: [ale] Hylafax and Vonage
In-Reply-To: <41EEDB4D.70108@geekrus.net>
References: <41EEDB4D.70108@geekrus.net>
Message-ID: <41EEDCBD.6020402@3times25.net>

Brandon Colbert wrote:
> Upon switching to Vonage, we have lost the ability to connect with
> many of our clients.  30-40% of incoming faxes don't complete and
> about the same number of outgoing ones do not complete. Are there any 
> special settings in hylafax to get it to work correctly over VOIP?

Is your vonage box sharing the bandwidth with other machines?  You 
should have it in a location where it's qos will address that issue.

That is to say, it shouldn't be, say on a switch with 9 other computers. 
  The safest place would be between your firewall and the rest of your 
network.  That way it's protected by the firewall, but can do the qos to 
the total bandwidth.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From stevejunk at iintiip.com  Wed Jan 19 17:25:03 2005
From: stevejunk at iintiip.com (Steve Tynor)
Date: Wed Jan 19 17:25:03 2005
Subject: [ale] Hylafax and Vonage
In-Reply-To: <41EEDB4D.70108@geekrus.net>
References: <41EEDB4D.70108@geekrus.net>
Message-ID: <16878.56615.439627.436715@gromit.iintiip.com>

Brandon Colbert wrote:

| Upon switching to Vonage, we have lost the ability to connect with
| many of our clients.  30-40% of incoming faxes don't complete and
| about the same number of outgoing ones do not complete. Are there any special settings in hylafax to get it to work correctly over VOIP?

Is your connection set at max bandwidth?  When I experiemented with the
"bandwidth saver" options on my Vonage connection, I had problems with
my fax machine; when the "bandwidth saver" was set to the highest
settings, I've not had any problems (admittedly, I don't fax much, so i
may just be lucky).

Steve


From brandon at geekrus.net  Wed Jan 19 17:29:44 2005
From: brandon at geekrus.net (Brandon Colbert)
Date: Wed Jan 19 17:29:44 2005
Subject: [ale] Hylafax and Vonage
In-Reply-To: <41EEDCBD.6020402@3times25.net>
References: <41EEDB4D.70108@geekrus.net> <41EEDCBD.6020402@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <41EEDE11.2040708@geekrus.net>

Geoffrey wrote:

> Brandon Colbert wrote:
>
>> Upon switching to Vonage, we have lost the ability to connect with
>> many of our clients.  30-40% of incoming faxes don't complete and
>> about the same number of outgoing ones do not complete. Are there any 
>> special settings in hylafax to get it to work correctly over VOIP?
>
>
> Is your vonage box sharing the bandwidth with other machines?  You 
> should have it in a location where it's qos will address that issue.
>
> That is to say, it shouldn't be, say on a switch with 9 other 
> computers.  The safest place would be between your firewall and the 
> rest of your network.  That way it's protected by the firewall, but 
> can do the qos to the total bandwidth.
>
The firewall is first and it has three network cards in it. One 
card/subnet is the WAN connection. Second card/subnet is the LAN. Third 
card/subnet is the VOIP.


From linux-clusters at mindspring.com  Wed Jan 19 17:40:23 2005
From: linux-clusters at mindspring.com (Steven A. DuChene)
Date: Wed Jan 19 17:40:23 2005
Subject: [ale] Hylafax and Vonage
Message-ID: <2876861.1106174169066.JavaMail.root@wamui07.slb.atl.earthlink.net>

Brandon:
Have you looked at the Hylafax logs to see if there is any indication there
about what might be failing?

-----Original Message-----
From: Brandon Colbert <brandon at geekrus.net>
Sent: Jan 19, 2005 5:24 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org>
Subject: Re: [ale] Hylafax and Vonage

Geoffrey wrote:

> Brandon Colbert wrote:
>
>> Upon switching to Vonage, we have lost the ability to connect with
>> many of our clients.  30-40% of incoming faxes don't complete and
>> about the same number of outgoing ones do not complete. Are there any 
>> special settings in hylafax to get it to work correctly over VOIP?
>
>
> Is your vonage box sharing the bandwidth with other machines?  You 
> should have it in a location where it's qos will address that issue.
>
> That is to say, it shouldn't be, say on a switch with 9 other 
> computers.  The safest place would be between your firewall and the 
> rest of your network.  That way it's protected by the firewall, but 
> can do the qos to the total bandwidth.
>
The firewall is first and it has three network cards in it. One 
card/subnet is the WAN connection. Second card/subnet is the LAN. Third 
card/subnet is the VOIP.



From joh6nn at gmail.com  Wed Jan 19 17:46:32 2005
From: joh6nn at gmail.com (joh6nn)
Date: Wed Jan 19 17:46:32 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: HTML, Forms and Buttons?
In-Reply-To: <41EEDB08.6070405@3times25.net>
References: <20050119162616.GD9369@rdlg.net>
	<200501191421.18158.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<20050119193222.GQ9369@rdlg.net>
	<200501191453.24336.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<20050119195907.GR9369@rdlg.net> <41EEDB08.6070405@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <7016c40405011914425fcc6534@mail.gmail.com>

looks like you're trying to get your content2 div to act like a frame;
have i got that right?  if that's what you're after, you can't do that
with CSS.  you could use an IFrame, but i don't recommend that you do.
 Frames, in all their forms, are so very often "a good idea at the
time."  i know, i've been down that road.

my suggestion:  take your time on the layout, and really get it right.
 your audience will thank you, and when you're done, it will most
likely eliminate the need for frames and javascript.


From brandon at geekrus.net  Wed Jan 19 18:12:42 2005
From: brandon at geekrus.net (Brandon Colbert)
Date: Wed Jan 19 18:12:42 2005
Subject: [ale] Hylafax and Vonage
In-Reply-To: <2876861.1106174169066.JavaMail.root@wamui07.slb.atl.earthlink.net>
References: <2876861.1106174169066.JavaMail.root@wamui07.slb.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <41EEE808.2070809@geekrus.net>

Steven A. DuChene wrote:

>Brandon:
>Have you looked at the Hylafax logs to see if there is any indication there
>about what might be failing?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Brandon Colbert <brandon at geekrus.net>
>Sent: Jan 19, 2005 5:24 PM
>To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org>
>Subject: Re: [ale] Hylafax and Vonage
>
>Geoffrey wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Brandon Colbert wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Upon switching to Vonage, we have lost the ability to connect with
>>>many of our clients.  30-40% of incoming faxes don't complete and
>>>about the same number of outgoing ones do not complete. Are there any 
>>>special settings in hylafax to get it to work correctly over VOIP?
>>>      
>>>
>>Is your vonage box sharing the bandwidth with other machines?  You 
>>should have it in a location where it's qos will address that issue.
>>
>>That is to say, it shouldn't be, say on a switch with 9 other 
>>computers.  The safest place would be between your firewall and the 
>>rest of your network.  That way it's protected by the firewall, but 
>>can do the qos to the total bandwidth.
>>
>>    
>>
>The firewall is first and it has three network cards in it. One 
>card/subnet is the WAN connection. Second card/subnet is the LAN. Third 
>card/subnet is the VOIP.
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Ale mailing list
>Ale at ale.org
>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
>
>
>  
>
I see a lot of  t.38 errors.


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 19 18:16:28 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Wed Jan 19 18:16:28 2005
Subject: [ale] Governor Proposes Felony for Spammers
Message-ID: <1106176295.7535.3.camel@blue>

ATLANTA (AP) _ Georgians who flood the Internet with spam e-mail 
could be charged with a felony under a bill proposed today by 
Governor Perdue. The Georgia Slam Spam E-Mail Act would punish 
spammers with a felony who send more than ten-thousand false or
misleading messages in one day, generate large amounts of money 
from spam or use minors to help them transmit the e-mails. The 
bill also outlines misdemeanor charges for lesser violations. 
Perdue urged legislators to pass the act -- quote -- "so that 
Georgians can once again check their e-mail without having to 
wade through a cesspool of spam."  He made the announcement at 
the headquarters of Atlanta-based EarthLink. The Internet service
provider endorses the proposed legislation. Perdue says the state 
law would only allow law enforcement officials to prosecute 
spammers based in Georgia, but hoped other states would enact 
similar laws. EarthLink's C-E-O Garry Betty says about 80 percent 
of all e-mails are spam. That amounts to as many as 250 (m) million
messages a day

See:
http://www.wgst.com/cc-common/local_news_common.html?ID=20050119122652&feed=local




From kafka at antichri.st  Wed Jan 19 18:32:31 2005
From: kafka at antichri.st (George Carless)
Date: Wed Jan 19 18:32:31 2005
Subject: [ale] Job openings
Message-ID: <20050119232812.GA18469@antichri.st>

Hi all,

We have a few positions opening up where I work.  Not especially 
foss-savvy, as a whole, but a reasonable company to work for, w/ 
stability, benefits, etc.

The main techy-ish position we have open right now is for a graphic 
designer.  We're also looking for writers, PR folks, 
demand generation types, a 'marketing programs analyst', 
a 'marketing programs specialist', and a 'traffic 
manager' (someone who is good with project management).  

If any of you might be interested, drop me an email to 
let me know.  Also, we may soon have one or two 
internships opening up for ambitious/talented web 
developers-- this WOULD be foss - LAMP(hp), looking for 
someone with good/budding skills in xhtml, css, etc. 
etc. yaddda yadda.  Nothing definite here yet, but if 
you'd be interested, let me know.

Thanks,
--George

--------------------------------------
George Carless ... kafka at antichri.st
Words are just dust in deserts of sound


From jrickman at gmail.com  Wed Jan 19 18:37:25 2005
From: jrickman at gmail.com (Jonathan Rickman)
Date: Wed Jan 19 18:37:25 2005
Subject: [ale] Apple WebObjects
In-Reply-To: <2802c52205011913151b0fafa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2802c52205011913151b0fafa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2802c52205011915331641c323@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry if this is a dupe. Didn't see the first one cross the list...


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jonathan Rickman <jrickman at gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 16:15:34 -0500
Subject: Apple WebObjects
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org>


Any WebObjects developers on the list? I have a few basic questions
that could lead to a job opportunity.

--
Jonathan


From scherrey at proteus-tech.com  Wed Jan 19 18:41:41 2005
From: scherrey at proteus-tech.com (Benjamin Scherrey)
Date: Wed Jan 19 18:41:41 2005
Subject: [ale] Cut me some slack...
Message-ID: <41EEEF34.80702@proteus-tech.com>

    Well I d/l Slackware 10.0 a few days back to run a server. Slackware 
is the first distribution I had success with and suck to for quite a 
while since 1995. Shortly thereafter I moved to RedHat and have 
primarily been using that or Mandrake ever since. I like the simplicity 
(i.e. less fluff, not less capable) of the distribution but I'm running 
into a couple of problems.

    First, uname -i & -p are not working - they return 'unknown'. This 
is on an Athlon box so maybe it has something to do with the processor. 
This is pretty important for building gcc and a lot of other 
configure-based source distributions. Someone mentioned something about 
a new coreutils package on IRC but I've got the latest one according to 
the slackware site.

    Second, the ANNOUNCE.10_0 claims that Slackware comes with a 2.6 
kernel option but the directory it wants me to look into simply doesn't 
exist. Er... ok well now (as I type) I finally got a google link that 
points me to an article that points me to the right location. This is an 
example where wrong docs are worse than no docs at all it seems... we'll 
see how that goes!

    Does seem to be a distinct absense of support for Slackware than the 
other major distros. Guess this comes from being non-commercial. Oh 
well... if this doesn't work out perhaps I'll give Gentoo another shot. 
I understand they've improved the install process finally. :)

    thanx,

       -- Ben Scherrey


From rstory-l at revelstone.com  Wed Jan 19 19:03:40 2005
From: rstory-l at revelstone.com (Robert Story)
Date: Wed Jan 19 19:03:40 2005
Subject: [ale] eth0 erros in dmesg
In-Reply-To: <200501191224.03003.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <200501191224.03003.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <20050119185926.3d7e2603@dev>

On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 12:24:02 -0500 Jay wrote:
JL> Last few days I've started getting errors in dmesg pertaining to eth0 (also
JL> occasionally barf across the screen while I'm logged into console, very 
JL> annoying.
JL> 
JL> More output is available on the web at http://jayloden.com/eth_dump, but
JL> the gist is basically:
JL> 
JL> ABORTED IN=eth0 OUT= MAC=00:02:2d:11:ea:df:00:04:e2:4f:a6:00:08:00 
JL> SRC=142.68.218.228 DST=192.168.2.101 LEN=40 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=109 
JL> ID=17427 DF PROTO=TCP SPT=6346 DPT=3355 SEQ=2533122795 ACK=884153666
JL> WINDOW=0 RES=0x00 RST URGP=0

This looks like an iptables log message.. check /etc/sysconfig/iptables to see
if you can find a rule causing it...


From ale at accipiter.org  Wed Jan 19 19:17:27 2005
From: ale at accipiter.org (Christopher R. Curzio)
Date: Wed Jan 19 19:17:27 2005
Subject: [ale] Cut me some slack...
In-Reply-To: <41EEEF34.80702@proteus-tech.com>
References: <41EEEF34.80702@proteus-tech.com>
Message-ID: <20050119191321.0a058098.ale@accipiter.org>

The uname thing is normal, not a slackware-specific issue, and happens on
tons of machines. (Mine included; Intel PIII 500). It's not at all
important when compiling from source, since I've never seen a problem with
./configure incorrectly detecting my hardware and putting the correct
setting (i686-pc-linux-gnu) in the makefile.

As for the kernel, you'll be better off just getting the most recent 2.6
kernel from kernel.org and compiling it yourself. However I checked the
documentation, and all the referenced directories and files exist. I don't
know where you were looking, but they're correct. 

>From ANNOUNCE.10_0: "As an alternate choice, Slackware 10.0 includes Linux
2.6.7 source, kernel modules, and binary packages, along with a new
mkinitrd tool and instructions on using it to install the new kernel (see
/boot/README.initrd)."

$ ls -al /boot/README.initrd 
lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root 37 2004-06-26 16:37 /boot/README.initrd ->
/usr/doc/mkinitrd-1.0.1/README.initrd

>From README.initrd: "We'll walk through the process of upgrading to the
2.6.7 Linux kernel using the packages found in Slackware's
testing/packages/linux-2.6.7/ directory."

ftp://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackware/slackware-10.0/testing/packages/linux-2.6.7/

...so I don't know what documentation is allegedly wrong and/or what
directories don't exist, but everything is where it should be on my box
and my CDs. 

-- 
Christopher R. Curzio     |  Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax
http://www.accipiter.org  |  si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
:wq!





Thus Spake Benjamin Scherrey <scherrey at proteus-tech.com>:
Wed, 19 Jan 2005 18:37:24 -0500


>     Well I d/l Slackware 10.0 a few days back to run a server. Slackware
>     
> is the first distribution I had success with and suck to for quite a 
> while since 1995. Shortly thereafter I moved to RedHat and have 
> primarily been using that or Mandrake ever since. I like the simplicity 
> (i.e. less fluff, not less capable) of the distribution but I'm running 
> into a couple of problems.
> 
>     First, uname -i & -p are not working - they return 'unknown'. This 
> is on an Athlon box so maybe it has something to do with the processor. 
> This is pretty important for building gcc and a lot of other 
> configure-based source distributions. Someone mentioned something about 
> a new coreutils package on IRC but I've got the latest one according to 
> the slackware site.
> 
>     Second, the ANNOUNCE.10_0 claims that Slackware comes with a 2.6 
> kernel option but the directory it wants me to look into simply doesn't 
> exist. Er... ok well now (as I type) I finally got a google link that 
> points me to an article that points me to the right location. This is an
> 
> example where wrong docs are worse than no docs at all it seems... we'll
> 
> see how that goes!
> 
>     Does seem to be a distinct absense of support for Slackware than the
>     
> other major distros. Guess this comes from being non-commercial. Oh 
> well... if this doesn't work out perhaps I'll give Gentoo another shot. 
> I understand they've improved the install process finally. :)
> 
>     thanx,
> 
>        -- Ben Scherrey
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From jimmyc at speedfactory.net  Wed Jan 19 19:20:03 2005
From: jimmyc at speedfactory.net (Jim Philips)
Date: Wed Jan 19 19:20:03 2005
Subject: [ale] Cut me some slack...
In-Reply-To: <41EEEF34.80702@proteus-tech.com>
References: <41EEEF34.80702@proteus-tech.com>
Message-ID: <200501191915.50037.jimmyc@speedfactory.net>

On Wednesday 19 January 2005 06:37 pm, Benjamin Scherrey wrote:

>     First, uname -i & -p are not working - they return 'unknown'. This
> is on an Athlon box so maybe it has something to do with the processor.
> This is pretty important for building gcc and a lot of other
> configure-based source distributions. Someone mentioned something about
> a new coreutils package on IRC but I've got the latest one according to
> the slackware site.

I get the same thing, but I also have an AMD processor.

>
>     Second, the ANNOUNCE.10_0 claims that Slackware comes with a 2.6
> kernel option but the directory it wants me to look into simply doesn't
> exist. Er... ok well now (as I type) I finally got a google link that
> points me to an article that points me to the right location. This is an
> example where wrong docs are worse than no docs at all it seems... we'll
> see how that goes!

The first place to look for the location of files is always "filelist.txt". It 
will be in the top directory of every Slackware release. The 2.6 kernels were 
in "testing".


From hbbs at comcast.net  Wed Jan 19 19:32:54 2005
From: hbbs at comcast.net (Jeff Hubbs)
Date: Wed Jan 19 19:32:54 2005
Subject: [Fwd: [ale] Allright, folks...]
Message-ID: <1106180908.4540.292.camel@juanita>

                             From: 
Jeff Hubbs <hbbs at comcast.net>
                         Reply-To: 
Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
<ale at ale.org>
                                To: 
                              Subj: 
hrweenie at mckesson.com
Useless Deadweight

Dear McKesson HR Weenie:

I am certain you'd agree that in
today's competitive economy, it's
vitally important that business
enterprises such as yours do
everything possible to maximize the
productivity of its workforce for a
given monthly payroll.  Furthermore,
I expect and acknowledge that your
and your HR staff's individual job
performance incentives and bonus
structure are predicated on that
very goal.

With all of that in mind, I direct
your attention to the attached
message from a member of your
dedicated staff.  Perhaps it would
be prudent to encourage this shining
example of IT workers all across
this great at-will state of Georgia
to spend the next few months
"constantly learning, implementing,
and working" on Monster.com listings
on his own dime, during which time
he can hope to Christ that no
prospective employer Googles his
name to see what he might have left
on Internet-searchable mailing lists
over the previous year.  

Ever forward,
Jeff Hubbs

Seriously, what kind of crack are they handing out over there, that you
would come out with a message like this?  Were it me and things were
running so damned smoothly and optimally that I could spend 10-hour work
days reading manga for all anyone cared, I'd go to my boss and say,
look, you're not getting anything out of me for your money here; what
can I be doing that would benefit the company somehow?  And, if my boss
didn't have an answer, I'd have him ask HIS boss or a company VP or
anyone else what itch there is that could use a scratch.  Brainbench
certifications aren't going to add numbers to any profit centers over
there.  
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Subject: [ale] Allright, folks...
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 11:21:22 -0500
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From hbbs at comcast.net  Wed Jan 19 19:35:02 2005
From: hbbs at comcast.net (Jeff Hubbs)
Date: Wed Jan 19 19:35:02 2005
Subject: [ale] "easy to use" database
In-Reply-To: <41EEB892.4050705@mindspring.com>
References: <41EE9D69.90206@mindspring.com>
	<1106157371.21717.24.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
	<cd08a04c050119100470f814ed@mail.gmail.com>
	<41EEB892.4050705@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <1106181047.4540.297.camel@juanita>

That kind of ordered-data thing sounds like something you could do in
Zope without even doing any real coding.

Jeff

On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 14:44, Preston Boyington wrote:
> Warren Myers wrote:
> > I guess I don't understand what you are trying to do very well. Are
> > you trying to build a personal checkbook manager that runs through a
> > web interface? PostgreSQL, MySQL, SQLite should all do the trick.
> > 
> > I'm, most familiar with pgsql and mysql interfacing to PHP to build
> > the front-end.
> > 
> > WMM
> > 
> 
> It would be used at a local church for their "Women's day out" program 
> (it's like a baby-sitting service).  Like most things it has a 
> shoestring budget and is mainly volunteer run.
> 
> so it would be things like: who are paige's parents, who can pick jill 
> up, what's johnny alergic to, when did suzie have her shots...
> 
> Preston
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From jkf at wolfnet.org  Wed Jan 19 20:12:25 2005
From: jkf at wolfnet.org (Jason Fritcher)
Date: Wed Jan 19 20:12:25 2005
Subject: [ale] Hylafax and Vonage
In-Reply-To: <41EEDB4D.70108@geekrus.net>
References: <41EEDB4D.70108@geekrus.net>
Message-ID: <41EF0470.9050305@wolfnet.org>

Brandon Colbert wrote:
> Upon switching to Vonage, we have lost the ability to connect with
> many of our clients.  30-40% of incoming faxes don't complete and
> about the same number of outgoing ones do not complete. Are there any
> special settings in hylafax to get it to work correctly over VOIP?

Just out of curiosity, did you get a "fax" line from Vonage, or are you
trying to run the fax through your voice line? From what I've read, Vonage
doesn't do anything to make sure fax works on "voice" lines, and might even
do things to hinder it so people sign up for a fax line. Iirc, they even use
a different codec on the fax lines that is fax friendly.

--
Jason Fritcher
jkf at wolfnet.org
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From jrickman at gmail.com  Wed Jan 19 20:45:39 2005
From: jrickman at gmail.com (Jonathan Rickman)
Date: Wed Jan 19 20:45:39 2005
Subject: [ale] Cut me some slack...
In-Reply-To: <20050119191321.0a058098.ale@accipiter.org>
References: <41EEEF34.80702@proteus-tech.com>
	<20050119191321.0a058098.ale@accipiter.org>
Message-ID: <2802c52205011917411c011abe@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 19:13:21 -0500, Christopher R. Curzio
<ale at accipiter.org> wrote:

> As for the kernel, you'll be better off just getting the most recent 2.6
> kernel from kernel.org and compiling it yourself. However I checked the
> documentation, and all the referenced directories and files exist. I don't
> know where you were looking, but they're correct.

As far as I know, the kernels slack ships with are totally unmodified.
Unless Pat changed something, the kernel source you get from him _is_
from kernel.org.

--
Jonathan


From linux-clusters at mindspring.com  Wed Jan 19 21:03:44 2005
From: linux-clusters at mindspring.com (Steven A. DuChene)
Date: Wed Jan 19 21:03:44 2005
Subject: [ale] Hylafax and Vonage
Message-ID: <12273723.1106186365312.JavaMail.root@wamui09.slb.atl.earthlink.net>

OK, I have been thinking about this today and I am just confused.
Vonage is by definition a VOIP phone service with zero depeandancy
on a physical POTS line. Faxing & Hylafax are by definition services
that deal with faxes occuring across a actual hardwired POTS line
and a regular dial-up modem. Now once the system running Hylafax
picks up the modem line and accepts the fax there may be some IP
traffic but other than that I am just puzzled how a VOIP service could
be affecting or even interacting with a fax modem that should unless
I am misunderstanding things be connected to a POTS line.

-----Original Message-----
From: Brandon Colbert <brandon at geekrus.net>
Sent: Jan 19, 2005 5:12 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org>
Subject: [ale] Hylafax and Vonage

Upon switching to Vonage, we have lost the ability to connect with
many of our clients.  30-40% of incoming faxes don't complete and
about the same number of outgoing ones do not complete.
Are there any special settings in hylafax to get it to work correctly over VOIP?



From scherrey at proteus-tech.com  Wed Jan 19 21:15:52 2005
From: scherrey at proteus-tech.com (Benjamin Scherrey)
Date: Wed Jan 19 21:15:52 2005
Subject: [ale] Hylafax and Vonage
In-Reply-To: <12273723.1106186365312.JavaMail.root@wamui09.slb.atl.earthlink.net>
References: <12273723.1106186365312.JavaMail.root@wamui09.slb.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <41EF135A.5010505@proteus-tech.com>

    Your understanding about the connections is correct but fax signals, 
especially higher speed ones, are far less forgiving of timing issues 
than a person's natural voice recognition. So when there is any packet 
delay or stutter, that will make a fax lose sync real easy. Throwing 
more bandwidth (using the highest setting) and guaranteed response times 
(putting the vonage modem in front of other traffic) helps tremendously. 
The dependency is still in the analog audio signal that the fax hardware 
is using to transmit its information. Would be nice if someone had a 
VOIP fax that was out-of-band all the way until it got to the other 
end's connection. Closest thing I've seen is email!

    Ben Scherrey

Steven A. DuChene wrote:

>OK, I have been thinking about this today and I am just confused.
>Vonage is by definition a VOIP phone service with zero depeandancy
>on a physical POTS line. Faxing & Hylafax are by definition services
>that deal with faxes occuring across a actual hardwired POTS line
>and a regular dial-up modem. Now once the system running Hylafax
>picks up the modem line and accepts the fax there may be some IP
>traffic but other than that I am just puzzled how a VOIP service could
>be affecting or even interacting with a fax modem that should unless
>I am misunderstanding things be connected to a POTS line.
>  
>


From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Wed Jan 19 21:17:53 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Wed Jan 19 21:17:53 2005
Subject: [ale] Hylafax and Vonage
In-Reply-To: <12273723.1106186365312.JavaMail.root@wamui09.slb.atl.earthlink.net>
References: <12273723.1106186365312.JavaMail.root@wamui09.slb.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1106187213.16329.39.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>

On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 20:59 -0500, Steven A. DuChene wrote:
> OK, I have been thinking about this today and I am just confused.
> Vonage is by definition a VOIP phone service with zero depeandancy
> on a physical POTS line. Faxing & Hylafax are by definition services
> that deal with faxes occuring across a actual hardwired POTS line
> and a regular dial-up modem. Now once the system running Hylafax
> picks up the modem line and accepts the fax there may be some IP
> traffic but other than that I am just puzzled how a VOIP service could
> be affecting or even interacting with a fax modem that should unless
> I am misunderstanding things be connected to a POTS line.

It's a sampling problem. VOIP does not sample voice at the same rate as
the POTS line does. Running an all-analogue device over a digital
carrier can "look" like watching a pc monitor that was taped by a video
camera. It just doesn't sync up right. Running analogue fax over VOIP
like Vonage (and CBeyond where I first ran into this problem) requires a
sample rate compatible with fax data rates. Some integer multiple of fax
speed is required or else there is frame drops and/or broken frame data
fields. On the far end of this there is now a very confused fax machine.

Voice data over the fax line will sound different using VOIP. POTS
doesn't care since it's all the same stuff to it.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brandon Colbert <brandon at geekrus.net>
> Sent: Jan 19, 2005 5:12 PM
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org>
> Subject: [ale] Hylafax and Vonage
> 
> Upon switching to Vonage, we have lost the ability to connect with
> many of our clients.  30-40% of incoming faxes don't complete and
> about the same number of outgoing ones do not complete.
> Are there any special settings in hylafax to get it to work correctly over VOIP?
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> !DSPAM:41ef10ab4396701269097!
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From scherrey at proteus-tech.com  Wed Jan 19 21:22:53 2005
From: scherrey at proteus-tech.com (Benjamin Scherrey)
Date: Wed Jan 19 21:22:53 2005
Subject: [ale] Cut me some slack...
In-Reply-To: <20050119191321.0a058098.ale@accipiter.org>
References: <41EEEF34.80702@proteus-tech.com>
	<20050119191321.0a058098.ale@accipiter.org>
Message-ID: <41EF14F9.6000104@proteus-tech.com>

I got the same documentation telling me to look there but there is no 
such file on my system nor on the CDs I burned from the torrent isos. 
Strange. Anyway - I did find the testing directory that Jim Phillips 
mentioned and have successfully got it running.

    thanx & later,

       Ben Scherrey

Christopher R. Curzio wrote:

><snip>
>$ ls -al /boot/README.initrd 
>lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root 37 2004-06-26 16:37 /boot/README.initrd ->
>/usr/doc/mkinitrd-1.0.1/README.initrd
>

><snip>
>  
>

>...so I don't know what documentation is allegedly wrong and/or what
>directories don't exist, but everything is where it should be on my box
>and my CDs. 
>
>  
>


From brandon at geekrus.net  Wed Jan 19 21:29:34 2005
From: brandon at geekrus.net (Brandon Colbert)
Date: Wed Jan 19 21:29:34 2005
Subject: [ale] Hylafax and Vonage
In-Reply-To: <41EF0470.9050305@wolfnet.org>
References: <41EEDB4D.70108@geekrus.net> <41EF0470.9050305@wolfnet.org>
Message-ID: <41EF163C.2080604@geekrus.net>

Jason Fritcher wrote:

> Brandon Colbert wrote:
>
>> Upon switching to Vonage, we have lost the ability to connect with
>> many of our clients.  30-40% of incoming faxes don't complete and
>> about the same number of outgoing ones do not complete. Are there any
>> special settings in hylafax to get it to work correctly over VOIP?
>
>
> Just out of curiosity, did you get a "fax" line from Vonage, or are you
> trying to run the fax through your voice line? From what I've read, 
> Vonage
> doesn't do anything to make sure fax works on "voice" lines, and might 
> even
> do things to hinder it so people sign up for a fax line. Iirc, they 
> even use
> a different codec on the fax lines that is fax friendly.
>
> -- 
> Jason Fritcher
> jkf at wolfnet.org
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>Ale mailing list
>Ale at ale.org
>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
This is a fax line.


From jkf at wolfnet.org  Wed Jan 19 22:23:23 2005
From: jkf at wolfnet.org (Jason Fritcher)
Date: Wed Jan 19 22:23:23 2005
Subject: [ale] Hylafax and Vonage
In-Reply-To: <41EF163C.2080604@geekrus.net>
References: <41EEDB4D.70108@geekrus.net> <41EF0470.9050305@wolfnet.org>
	<41EF163C.2080604@geekrus.net>
Message-ID: <41EF231D.60106@wolfnet.org>

Brandon Colbert wrote:
> This is a fax line.

Just curious, because I've read about people trying to make fax machines
work over voice lines, and have horrible problems. :)

--
Jason Fritcher
jkf at wolfnet.org
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From drifter at oppositelock.org  Wed Jan 19 22:54:08 2005
From: drifter at oppositelock.org (Sean Kilpatrick)
Date: Wed Jan 19 22:54:08 2005
Subject: [ale] Hylafax and Vonage
In-Reply-To: <41EF231D.60106@wolfnet.org>
References: <41EEDB4D.70108@geekrus.net> <41EF163C.2080604@geekrus.net>
	<41EF231D.60106@wolfnet.org>
Message-ID: <200501192249.36773.drifter@oppositelock.org>

On Wednesday 19 January 2005 10:18 pm, Jason Fritcher wrote:
| Just curious, because I've read about people trying to make fax machines
| work over voice lines, and have horrible problems. :)

Now I'm confused. Fax machines, which must be nearly 40 years old by
now, have _always_ been designed to work over POTS -- aka a voice
telephone line.  Wireless -- that's a different matter.

Sean,
 who clearly remembers the early fax machines, with the thermal
paper and the cradle to hold the handset.

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From jkf at wolfnet.org  Wed Jan 19 23:39:11 2005
From: jkf at wolfnet.org (Jason Fritcher)
Date: Wed Jan 19 23:39:11 2005
Subject: [ale] Hylafax and Vonage
In-Reply-To: <200501192249.36773.drifter@oppositelock.org>
References: <41EEDB4D.70108@geekrus.net>
	<41EF163C.2080604@geekrus.net>	<41EF231D.60106@wolfnet.org>
	<200501192249.36773.drifter@oppositelock.org>
Message-ID: <41EF34C4.7070801@wolfnet.org>

Sean Kilpatrick wrote:
> On Wednesday 19 January 2005 10:18 pm, Jason Fritcher wrote:
> | Just curious, because I've read about people trying to make fax machines
> | work over voice lines, and have horrible problems. :)
>
> Now I'm confused. Fax machines, which must be nearly 40 years old by
> now, have _always_ been designed to work over POTS -- aka a voice
> telephone line.  Wireless -- that's a different matter.

Heh. Yeah, that could've been clearer. I was referring to a Vonage voice
line, and not a POTS line. On POTS, this would be a non-issue. On Vonage,
because of the latency of the internet, normal "voice" codecs will make fax
calls unusable. The "fax" lines Vonage sells are better suited to fax
transmission by adjusting settings that aren't needing for voice, like max
bandwidth usage, changing packetization rates, and enabling high quality
codecs that won't mangle fax tones as badly. Although, if you have a Cisco
ATA, putting *99 before the number will force it to switch to the more fax
friendly settings before placing the call. *shrug*

I avoid the whole issue by not attempting to fax anything over my Vonge line. :)

--
Jason Fritcher
jkf at wolfnet.org
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From barry at alltc.com  Thu Jan 20 00:29:20 2005
From: barry at alltc.com (Barry Hawkins)
Date: Thu Jan 20 00:29:20 2005
Subject: [Fwd: [ale] Allright, folks...]
In-Reply-To: <1106180908.4540.292.camel@juanita>
References: <1106180908.4540.292.camel@juanita>
Message-ID: <41EF3D48.6000607@alltc.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Jeff Hubbs wrote:
|                              From:
| Jeff Hubbs <hbbs at comcast.net>
|                          Reply-To:
| Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
| <ale at ale.org>
|                                 To:
|                               Subj:
| hrweenie at mckesson.com
| Useless Deadweight
|
| Dear McKesson HR Weenie:
[...]
This gets my vote for Best Email Satire for 2005; well-written and with
a funny yet very appropriate cautionary message.

- --
Barry Hawkins
All Things Computed
site: www.alltc.com
weblog: www.yepthatsme.com

Registered Linux User #368650
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From audilover at speedfactory.net  Thu Jan 20 01:25:21 2005
From: audilover at speedfactory.net (Raylynn Knight)
Date: Thu Jan 20 01:25:21 2005
Subject: [ale] Thursday's NW Meeting - Room Change
In-Reply-To: <200501191237590171.02926E2A@mail.sixit.com>
References: <200501191237590171.02926E2A@mail.sixit.com>
Message-ID: <1106201725.9512.11.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>

On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 12:37 -0500, Robert Reese wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> Thursday's NW ALE meeting will not be held in CL1007, unless you want to
> join me for a rousing evening of precalculus.  I'm not sure where it's
> going to be held, but needless to say I'll not be attending... not until
> 9:30, anyway.  Of course, if misery *really* loves company, you'll know
> where to find me.
> 
> Cheers,
> Robert Reese~
> 
Since I'm presenting it would be really great if someone could let me
know where the meeting is going to take place then!

Since the KSU User Group is supposed to be hosting our meetings, it
would be nice if they could make sure we actually have a place to meet

Ray



From ale at sixit.com  Thu Jan 20 03:47:53 2005
From: ale at sixit.com (Robert Reese)
Date: Thu Jan 20 03:47:53 2005
Subject: [ale] Thursday's NW Meeting - Room Change
In-Reply-To: <1106201725.9512.11.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
References: <200501191237590171.02926E2A@mail.sixit.com>
	<1106201725.9512.11.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
Message-ID: <200501200344290093.05D05ACC@mail.sixit.com>

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
On 1/20/2005 at 1:15 AM Raylynn Knight wrote:

>Since I'm presenting it would be really great if someone could let me
>know where the meeting is going to take place then!
>
>Since the KSU User Group is supposed to be hosting our meetings, it
>would be nice if they could make sure we actually have a place to meet

I wish I could be more helpful, but since this is my first semester at KSU, and a non-traditional student to boot, I'm a bit lost myself.  In fact, I just learned that apparently I have a logon for school computers and something called a "web ct" account somewhere, too.

Sorry,
Robert~

Type: DH/DSS 4096/1024 AES-256
Key ID: 0xA771A40C
Fingerprint: CAE2 81CA A7CD 6681 341C  E3A9 BC3C 04E5 A771 A40C


From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Thu Jan 20 08:24:52 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Thu Jan 20 08:24:52 2005
Subject: [Fwd: [ale] Allright, folks...]
In-Reply-To: <41EF3D48.6000607@alltc.com>
References: <1106180908.4540.292.camel@juanita> <41EF3D48.6000607@alltc.com>
Message-ID: <1106227146.16329.54.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>

On Thu, 2005-01-20 at 00:10 -0500, Barry Hawkins wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Jeff Hubbs wrote:
> |                              From:
> | Jeff Hubbs <hbbs at comcast.net>
> |                          Reply-To:
> | Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> | <ale at ale.org>
> |                                 To:
> |                               Subj:
> | hrweenie at mckesson.com
> | Useless Deadweight
> |
> | Dear McKesson HR Weenie:
> [...]
> This gets my vote for Best Email Satire for 2005; well-written and with
> a funny yet very appropriate cautionary message.

Nah. That's not satire. Jeff's just getting bitter in his old age.

;)
> 
> - --
> Barry Hawkins
> All Things Computed
> site: www.alltc.com
> weblog: www.yepthatsme.com
> 
> Registered Linux User #368650
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux)
> 
> iD8DBQFB7z1H7bZ6kUftWZwRAnXOAJ0dayD32ii4oPQg+WwOoh7RLgcY9gCcCxGd
> Amh2OJYy27hrVZIlTkhtiQo=
> =orKB
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> !DSPAM:41ef41c6133444280013390!
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From ale1 at cybertechcafe.net  Thu Jan 20 10:15:46 2005
From: ale1 at cybertechcafe.net (Nathan J. Underwood)
Date: Thu Jan 20 10:15:46 2005
Subject: [ale] [OT] phpcollab - moved to new server,
 now getting session error on login
Message-ID: <41EFCA0F.4030202@cybertechcafe.net>

Anyone familiar with phpcollab?  We've been tinkering with it for a 
while, and really started to like it, so I was going to move it to one 
of the production servers.  I backed up the files (tar / gzip), then 
backed up the db (mysqldump).  I then created my phpcollab directory 
(under doc root) on the destination server, created a database, untarred 
/ unzipped the files (into phpcollab/), re-created the database (mysql 
-u phpcollab -p < phpcollab.sql), and thought I was done.  I went to the 
site, and got the login page.  Typed in my username / login, and got a 
'Session Error'.  Anyone had this happen, or want to take a stab at it? 
  I'm on the support site now digging around, but haven't had much luck.
-- 
--
registered linux user # 73046


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Thu Jan 20 10:18:13 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Thu Jan 20 10:18:13 2005
Subject: [ale] Hylafax and Vonage
In-Reply-To: <41EEDE11.2040708@geekrus.net>
References: <41EEDB4D.70108@geekrus.net> <41EEDCBD.6020402@3times25.net>
	<41EEDE11.2040708@geekrus.net>
Message-ID: <41EFCAB9.3030802@3times25.net>

Brandon Colbert wrote:
> Geoffrey wrote:
> 
>> Brandon Colbert wrote:
>>
>>> Upon switching to Vonage, we have lost the ability to connect with
>>> many of our clients.  30-40% of incoming faxes don't complete and
>>> about the same number of outgoing ones do not complete. Are there any 
>>> special settings in hylafax to get it to work correctly over VOIP?
>>
>>
>>
>> Is your vonage box sharing the bandwidth with other machines?  You 
>> should have it in a location where it's qos will address that issue.
>>
>> That is to say, it shouldn't be, say on a switch with 9 other 
>> computers.  The safest place would be between your firewall and the 
>> rest of your network.  That way it's protected by the firewall, but 
>> can do the qos to the total bandwidth.
>>
> The firewall is first and it has three network cards in it. One 
> card/subnet is the WAN connection. Second card/subnet is the LAN. Third 
> card/subnet is the VOIP.

Ah, this is very likely your problem.  The voip obviously can not 
control the bandwidth of the other two nics.  I don't know of an easy 
solution.  You could put the voip in front of the firewall, but I 
wouldn't recommend that.

You could likely do some bandwidth control on the firewall, but that's 
beyond my experience.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Thu Jan 20 10:31:22 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Thu Jan 20 10:31:22 2005
Subject: [ale] Hylafax and Vonage
In-Reply-To: <41EF0470.9050305@wolfnet.org>
References: <41EEDB4D.70108@geekrus.net> <41EF0470.9050305@wolfnet.org>
Message-ID: <41EFCDC8.80702@3times25.net>

Jason Fritcher wrote:
> Brandon Colbert wrote:
> 
>> Upon switching to Vonage, we have lost the ability to connect with
>> many of our clients.  30-40% of incoming faxes don't complete and
>> about the same number of outgoing ones do not complete. Are there any
>> special settings in hylafax to get it to work correctly over VOIP?
> 
> 
> Just out of curiosity, did you get a "fax" line from Vonage, or are you
> trying to run the fax through your voice line? From what I've read, Vonage
> doesn't do anything to make sure fax works on "voice" lines, and might even
> do things to hinder it so people sign up for a fax line. Iirc, they even 
> use
> a different codec on the fax lines that is fax friendly.

Well, I've successfully sent and receive through my vonage voice line. 
Then again, I doubt I have the bandwidth usage that he has.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Thu Jan 20 10:33:37 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Thu Jan 20 10:33:37 2005
Subject: [ale] Hylafax and Vonage
In-Reply-To: <12273723.1106186365312.JavaMail.root@wamui09.slb.atl.earthlink.net>
References: <12273723.1106186365312.JavaMail.root@wamui09.slb.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <41EFCE50.7040104@3times25.net>

Steven A. DuChene wrote:
> OK, I have been thinking about this today and I am just confused.
> Vonage is by definition a VOIP phone service with zero depeandancy
> on a physical POTS line. Faxing & Hylafax are by definition services
> that deal with faxes occuring across a actual hardwired POTS line
> and a regular dial-up modem. Now once the system running Hylafax
> picks up the modem line and accepts the fax there may be some IP
> traffic but other than that I am just puzzled how a VOIP service could
> be affecting or even interacting with a fax modem that should unless
> I am misunderstanding things be connected to a POTS line.

I simply have my voice line from my vonage box going to my modem and a 
phone hanging off the modem.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From aaron at pd.org  Thu Jan 20 10:59:11 2005
From: aaron at pd.org (aaron)
Date: Thu Jan 20 10:59:11 2005
Subject: [ale] Fwd: [EFGA] Volunteers needed
Message-ID: <200501201053.27568.aaron@pd.org>

Please reply to  "Robert A. Costner" <pooh at efga.org>
if you are interested in contributing your Linux skills to issues relevant to 
the electronic frontiers of Open Source, Fair Use and Free Speech in the 
legal and legislative domain. 

(I'm trying to help them set up a fax server right now myself, and would 
welcome advice sent to  <aaron at pd.org>)
=========================================
Subject: [EFGA] Volunteers needed
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 15:24:42 -0500
From: "Robert A. Costner" <pooh at efga.org>
To: efga-action at efga.org

I often tell people that EFGA does what you want, because you do it.  There 
is nothing EFGA has ever done that was not done by an unpaid volunteer of 
the group.  So support EFGA.  Volunteer!

Right now we have a need for some people to work on an internet server 
based system to help communicate issues, track voting records, and 
communicate feedback to our public officials.  This would be something 
similar to what Capital Advantage sells, such as is seen at www.congress.org.

The technology we have in place is three Linux servers with PHP, MySQL, 
Sendmail, and a fax card.  We can use volunteers who want to work a little, 
and we can use volunteers who want to work a lot.

But what if you don't have technical skills?  Well, actually you do!  Going 
to a web page the state has and copy/pasting the text into a comma 
separated text file for uploading into our database is what is know as ETL 
- Extract, Transform, and Load.  Have a fax machine we can send test 
letters to?  That is both Unit Testing and Integration testing.  I can give 
you dozens of examples.  You have complex technical skills, you may just 
not realize it!

If you know what technical skills you have and want to use them, then let 
me know.  There is a lot to do and I can give you any size piece of it you 
want.

Robert A. Costner
http://www.efga.org 

_______________________________________________
efga-action mailing list
efga-action at efga.org
http://mail.aprr.org/mailman/listinfo/efga-action


-------------------------------------------------------


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 20 11:11:04 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Thu Jan 20 11:11:04 2005
Subject: [ale] Fwd: [EFGA] Volunteers needed
In-Reply-To: <200501201053.27568.aaron@pd.org>
References: <200501201053.27568.aaron@pd.org>
Message-ID: <1106237162.9042.4.camel@blue>

On Thu, 2005-01-20 at 10:53 +0000, aaron wrote:

> (I'm trying to help them set up a fax server right now myself, and would 
> welcome advice sent to  <aaron at pd.org>)

This isn't going to be one of those fax servers that spams everybody's
fax machine is it?

Shortly before shutting down our (mostly unused) Atlanta office, I
stopped by one day only to find 100 pages of junk faxes strewn around
the floor in front of the fax machine.  Sure it's illegal to blindly fax
someone, but so are a host of other things that people do.

-Jim P.





From ale1 at cybertechcafe.net  Thu Jan 20 11:13:07 2005
From: ale1 at cybertechcafe.net (Nathan J. Underwood)
Date: Thu Jan 20 11:13:07 2005
Subject: [ale] [OT] phpcollab - moved to new server, now getting session
	error on login
In-Reply-To: <41EFCA0F.4030202@cybertechcafe.net>
References: <41EFCA0F.4030202@cybertechcafe.net>
Message-ID: <41EFD790.6050603@cybertechcafe.net>

Well, I think I may have found this.  After digging around in the 
support pages a bit, I found recurring references to register_globals 
and $login_method.  I really didn't want to set $login_method to PLAIN 
(nor did I want to turn on register_globals), but register_globals=on 
did the trick.
--
registered linux user # 73046

Nathan J. Underwood
Cyber Tech Cafe' <><
http://www.cybertechcafe.net

Nathan J. Underwood wrote:
> Anyone familiar with phpcollab?  We've been tinkering with it for a 
> while, and really started to like it, so I was going to move it to one 
> of the production servers.  I backed up the files (tar / gzip), then 
> backed up the db (mysqldump).  I then created my phpcollab directory 
> (under doc root) on the destination server, created a database, untarred 
> / unzipped the files (into phpcollab/), re-created the database (mysql 
> -u phpcollab -p < phpcollab.sql), and thought I was done.  I went to the 
> site, and got the login page.  Typed in my username / login, and got a 
> 'Session Error'.  Anyone had this happen, or want to take a stab at it? 
>  I'm on the support site now digging around, but haven't had much luck.


From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Thu Jan 20 12:44:39 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Thu Jan 20 12:44:39 2005
Subject: [ale] Free to good home
Message-ID: <1106242817.16329.63.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>

I need to make some desk space and have an HP Visualize C160, keyboard,
mouse and monitor that needs a new home. 

This box has been used as a test bed for palinux and currently has a
_very_ early version installed. I also have a set of HPUX disks that
comes with it.

System has a small but useable pair scsi drives, a scsi CD-RW drive and
a decent amount of RAM (can't remember and too lazy to string a power
cord over and boot the thing).

Email me off list and make arrangments to come pick it up from the
Tucker area (~2:15 on the I-285 clock oustside the loop).
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From ale1 at cybertechcafe.net  Thu Jan 20 13:19:41 2005
From: ale1 at cybertechcafe.net (Nathan J. Underwood)
Date: Thu Jan 20 13:19:41 2005
Subject: [ale] Governor Proposes Felony for Spammers
In-Reply-To: <1106176295.7535.3.camel@blue>
References: <1106176295.7535.3.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <41EFF540.8070207@cybertechcafe.net>

Well, since Georgia is a hub of SPAM in the Internet world, and since 
they've finally worked out all of the bugs in the 
'actual_original_sender_finder', this sounds like a good plan.
--
registered linux user # 73046

Nathan J. Underwood
Cyber Tech Cafe' <><
http://www.cybertechcafe.net

Jim Popovitch wrote:
> ATLANTA (AP) _ Georgians who flood the Internet with spam e-mail 
> could be charged with a felony under a bill proposed today by 
> Governor Perdue. The Georgia Slam Spam E-Mail Act would punish 
> spammers with a felony who send more than ten-thousand false or
> misleading messages in one day, generate large amounts of money 
> from spam or use minors to help them transmit the e-mails. The 
> bill also outlines misdemeanor charges for lesser violations. 
> Perdue urged legislators to pass the act -- quote -- "so that 
> Georgians can once again check their e-mail without having to 
> wade through a cesspool of spam."  He made the announcement at 
> the headquarters of Atlanta-based EarthLink. The Internet service
> provider endorses the proposed legislation. Perdue says the state 
> law would only allow law enforcement officials to prosecute 
> spammers based in Georgia, but hoped other states would enact 
> similar laws. EarthLink's C-E-O Garry Betty says about 80 percent 
> of all e-mails are spam. That amounts to as many as 250 (m) million
> messages a day
> 
> See:
> http://www.wgst.com/cc-common/local_news_common.html?ID=20050119122652&feed=local
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Thu Jan 20 13:46:37 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Thu Jan 20 13:46:37 2005
Subject: [ale] Free to good home
In-Reply-To: <1106242817.16329.63.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
References: <1106242817.16329.63.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <1106246515.16329.69.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>

The HP has a new home.

On Thu, 2005-01-20 at 12:40 -0500, James P. Kinney III wrote:
> I need to make some desk space and have an HP Visualize C160, keyboard,
> mouse and monitor that needs a new home. 
> 
> This box has been used as a test bed for palinux and currently has a
> _very_ early version installed. I also have a set of HPUX disks that
> comes with it.
> 
> System has a small but useable pair scsi drives, a scsi CD-RW drive and
> a decent amount of RAM (can't remember and too lazy to string a power
> cord over and boot the thing).
> 
> Email me off list and make arrangments to come pick it up from the
> Tucker area (~2:15 on the I-285 clock oustside the loop).
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> !DSPAM:41efed3d80241319310648!
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From bluejay at speedfactory.net  Thu Jan 20 13:52:08 2005
From: bluejay at speedfactory.net (Jim Seymour)
Date: Thu Jan 20 13:52:08 2005
Subject: [ale] Routing slow on certain sites
In-Reply-To: <1106128992.9168.6.camel@open.office.noesisopen.com>
References: <20050116183720.GA5163@speedfactory.net>
	<41EB2F46.7040000@3times25.net>
	<20050117170905.GA10244@speedfactory.net>
	<20050117183934.GB10244@speedfactory.net>
	<41EC0FA8.9000603@mindspring.com>
	<20050119093020.GA27287@speedfactory.net>
	<1106128992.9168.6.camel@open.office.noesisopen.com>
Message-ID: <20050120184746.GA10317@speedfactory.net>

On Wed, Jan 19, 2005 at 05:03:12AM -0500, Scott A. Martin wrote:
> Jim,
> 
> Check out section on following URL about connecting to AOL from a
> corporate LAN: http://webmaster.info.aol.com/connectivity.html.
> 
> Scott
> 

Thanks Scott,

I checked to make sure those ports were not being blocked and all looked
okay. From what I found out talking to Speedfactory and searching the
Internet was that there is an issue with with packet fragmentation from
some sites servers. I remember seeing something in one of my con-files or
a man page somewhere about allowing fragmented packets. I am trying to
find that now.

Later,

Jim Seymour


From trey at fastmail.fm  Thu Jan 20 13:54:47 2005
From: trey at fastmail.fm (Trey Sizemore)
Date: Thu Jan 20 13:54:47 2005
Subject: [ale] NW meeting tonight
Message-ID: <1106247022.3443.213202367@webmail.messagingengine.com>

Has there been any resolution on the meeting room tonight?  I've not
seen any updates on the list.
-- 
  Trey Sizemore
  trey at fastmail.fm


From rstory-l at revelstone.com  Thu Jan 20 14:02:06 2005
From: rstory-l at revelstone.com (Robert Story)
Date: Thu Jan 20 14:02:06 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
Message-ID: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>

I had two guys wearing comcast badges come to my door earlier today, trying to
sell their phone service. I said I was tied to my land line for DSL because I
needed a static IP to run servers, which they don't offer. The guy said it was
coming, and took my name.

He called back about 2 hours later, and said it was available, and he was going
to get more info and call me back tomorrow or Monday. Anyone else heard of
this?

A quick google search turned up two hits: comcast in new-england seems to offer
several levels of business server, including static IPs. Pricey.
	http://www.comcast-ne.com/business/internet.html

An another link of someone trying to work thru the read tape to get on a static
IP 'beta' list:
	http://matthartley.lockergnome.net/blog/_archives/2005/1/13/241362.html

Anyone else heard of this service in Atlanta?


From rstory-l at revelstone.com  Thu Jan 20 14:09:45 2005
From: rstory-l at revelstone.com (Robert Story)
Date: Thu Jan 20 14:09:45 2005
Subject: [ale] SUSE 9.2 Pro free from Novell
In-Reply-To: <20050114233158.5b28cee6@sumners.ath.cx>
References: <1105758813.69ce73chabieb@myrealbox.com>
	<41dc54540501141917716fc96e@mail.gmail.com>
	<20050114233158.5b28cee6@sumners.ath.cx>
Message-ID: <20050120140535.32c1796e@dev>

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 23:31:58 -0500 James wrote:
JS> With 9.1 (I think) SuSE decided to release the install CDs after they have
JS> been available for sale for a while. Basically, they cater to their paying
JS> customers first and then let everyone else in. It is the same thing that
JS> the Linspire and Xandros(?) people do. You don't get any real support but
JS> you do get to use the system that comes in the box on the shelf.

This is what YellowDog Linux (RH/Fedora based PPC) does too. Generally, though
the ftp is available about 2-3 weeks after the packaged version is available.


From hbbs at comcast.net  Thu Jan 20 14:23:14 2005
From: hbbs at comcast.net (Jeff Hubbs)
Date: Thu Jan 20 14:23:14 2005
Subject: [ale] Free to good home
In-Reply-To: <1106246515.16329.69.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
References: <1106242817.16329.63.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
	<1106246515.16329.69.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <1106248716.4540.520.camel@juanita>

Good - keeps me from getting it.  

In any case, take note of this:

http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-hppa.xml?full=1

Jeff

On Thu, 2005-01-20 at 13:41, James P. Kinney III wrote:
> The HP has a new home.
> 
> On Thu, 2005-01-20 at 12:40 -0500, James P. Kinney III wrote:
> > I need to make some desk space and have an HP Visualize C160, keyboard,
> > mouse and monitor that needs a new home. 
> > 
> > This box has been used as a test bed for palinux and currently has a
> > _very_ early version installed. I also have a set of HPUX disks that
> > comes with it.
> > 
> > System has a small but useable pair scsi drives, a scsi CD-RW drive and
> > a decent amount of RAM (can't remember and too lazy to string a power
> > cord over and boot the thing).
> > 
> > Email me off list and make arrangments to come pick it up from the
> > Tucker area (~2:15 on the I-285 clock oustside the loop).
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> > 
> > !DSPAM:41efed3d80241319310648!


From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Thu Jan 20 14:28:22 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Thu Jan 20 14:28:22 2005
Subject: [ale] PDA prefs
Message-ID: <1106249034.16329.78.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>

I would _LOVE_ to get a treo 650. But Nextel is still braindamaged and
the merger with Sprint is not final until Q4 '05.

I like my Zaurus but have found it to be more of a toy than a tool.

So I'm in the market for a new PDA.

Require:

Sync to a linux box (I use mostly Evolution but am moving towards
Thunderbird. Calendaring is a big must for me or else I'm lost).

decent battery life. I can charge every day but it must last longer than
a long work day.

Wants:

WiFi would be nice built in or with an add on card.

So what are other Alers using?
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net  Thu Jan 20 14:42:41 2005
From: Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net (Robert L. Harris)
Date: Thu Jan 20 14:42:41 2005
Subject: [ale] PDA prefs
In-Reply-To: <1106249034.16329.78.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
References: <1106249034.16329.78.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <20050120193550.GC9369@rdlg.net>



No wi-fi, but I love my Garmin Ique.  The GPS and built in phonebook is
a life saver.  Rumors of wi-fi in the memory expansion slot keep
floating around.  External antanea in the car with a suctioncup mount
make the thing amazing for finding places you've never been to or
getting home from a detour on backroads because of construction.

It sync's great with my linux box except you have to have windows to
load new maps as the program is windows only.  I back it up via jpilot
regularly.

The battery will last a full day unless you sit and play games on it all
day long.  


Thus spake James P. Kinney III (jkinney at localnetsolutions.com):

> I would _LOVE_ to get a treo 650. But Nextel is still braindamaged and
> the merger with Sprint is not final until Q4 '05.
> 
> I like my Zaurus but have found it to be more of a toy than a tool.
> 
> So I'm in the market for a new PDA.
> 
> Require:
> 
> Sync to a linux box (I use mostly Evolution but am moving towards
> Thunderbird. Calendaring is a big must for me or else I'm lost).
> 
> decent battery life. I can charge every day but it must last longer than
> a long work day.
> 
> Wants:
> 
> WiFi would be nice built in or with an add on card.
> 
> So what are other Alers using?
> -- 
> James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
> CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
> Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
> 770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
> http://www.localnetsolutions.com
> 
> GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
> <jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
> Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7



> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

:wq!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert L. Harris                     | GPG Key ID: E344DA3B
                                         @ x-hkp://pgp.mit.edu
DISCLAIMER:
      These are MY OPINIONS             With Dreams To Be A King,
       ALONE.  I speak for              First One Should Be A Man
       no-one else.                       - Manowar

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From FishR at bellsouth.net  Thu Jan 20 15:18:55 2005
From: FishR at bellsouth.net (Ryan Fish)
Date: Thu Jan 20 15:18:55 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>
Message-ID: <008801c4ff2d$35cd6180$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>

I am not sure about Comcast's offerings but do know that BellSouth offers
static IPs on their service.  It is free with the DSL Extreme package or you
can pay an extra $14.95/month for one (seems a bit pricy to me though).

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Story" <rstory-l at revelstone.com>
To: <ale at ale.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 1:57 PM
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?


> I had two guys wearing comcast badges come to my door earlier today,
trying to
> sell their phone service. I said I was tied to my land line for DSL
because I
> needed a static IP to run servers, which they don't offer. The guy said it
was
> coming, and took my name.
>
> He called back about 2 hours later, and said it was available, and he was
going
> to get more info and call me back tomorrow or Monday. Anyone else heard of
> this?
>
> A quick google search turned up two hits: comcast in new-england seems to
offer
> several levels of business server, including static IPs. Pricey.
> http://www.comcast-ne.com/business/internet.html
>
> An another link of someone trying to work thru the read tape to get on a
static
> IP 'beta' list:
> http://matthartley.lockergnome.net/blog/_archives/2005/1/13/241362.html
>
> Anyone else heard of this service in Atlanta?
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>



From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Thu Jan 20 15:38:14 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Thu Jan 20 15:38:14 2005
Subject: [ale] Perl Split Question
Message-ID: <1106253239.26283.26.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>

Is there a way to use split to split a string into segments of N
characters.  I want to automatically wrap a long text string onto
multiple lines.


From keith.watson at gtri.gatech.edu  Thu Jan 20 16:16:16 2005
From: keith.watson at gtri.gatech.edu (Keith R. Watson)
Date: Thu Jan 20 16:16:16 2005
Subject: [ale] Perl Split Question
In-Reply-To: <1106253239.26283.26.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20050120161040.02897900@casbah.gatech.edu>

At 15:33 1/20/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>Is there a way to use split to split a string into segments of N
>characters.  I want to automatically wrap a long text string onto
>multiple lines.
>
>_______________________________________________
>Ale mailing list
>Ale at ale.org
>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

Assuming your not doing word wrapping in Perl


#!c:\perl\bin\perl.exe -w

use strict;

my $string ='1a2b3c4d5e6f7g8h9i';

my $string_length = length ($string);

my $segment_size = 3;

my $segment;

for (my $offset = 0; $offset <= $string_length; $offset += $segment_size) {

    $segment = substr ($string, $offset, $segment_size);

    print ($segment, "\n");
}


keith

-------------

Keith R. Watson                        GTRI/ISD
Systems Support Specialist III         Georgia Tech Research Institute
keith.watson at gtri.gatech.edu           Atlanta, GA  30332-0816
404-894-0836


From keith.watson at gtri.gatech.edu  Thu Jan 20 16:23:20 2005
From: keith.watson at gtri.gatech.edu (Keith R. Watson)
Date: Thu Jan 20 16:23:20 2005
Subject: [ale] Perl Split Question
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050120161040.02897900@casbah.gatech.edu>
References: <1106253239.26283.26.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20050120161700.03576e40@casbah.gatech.edu>

At 16:11 1/20/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>At 15:33 1/20/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>>Is there a way to use split to split a string into segments of N
>>characters.  I want to automatically wrap a long text string onto
>>multiple lines.
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Ale mailing list
>>Ale at ale.org
>>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
>Assuming your not doing word wrapping in Perl
>
>
>#!c:\perl\bin\perl.exe -w
>
>use strict;
>
>my $string ='1a2b3c4d5e6f7g8h9i';
>
>my $string_length = length ($string);
>
>my $segment_size = 3;
>
>my $segment;
>
>for (my $offset = 0; $offset <= $string_length; $offset += $segment_size) {
>
>    $segment = substr ($string, $offset, $segment_size);
>
>    print ($segment, "\n");
>}
>


This is much better. I should have checked the FAQ before I wrote the code.

use the Text::Wrap package.

keith


-------------

Keith R. Watson                        GTRI/ISD
Systems Support Specialist III         Georgia Tech Research Institute
keith.watson at gtri.gatech.edu           Atlanta, GA  30332-0816
404-894-0836


From fletch at phydeaux.org  Thu Jan 20 16:31:09 2005
From: fletch at phydeaux.org (fletch at phydeaux.org)
Date: Thu Jan 20 16:31:09 2005
Subject: [ale] Perl Split Question
Message-ID: <64311.24.98.129.46.1106256413.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org>

>>>>> "Christopher" == Christopher Fowler <cfowler at outpostsentinel.com>
writes:
    Christopher> Is there a way to use split to split a string into
    Christopher> segments of N characters.  I want to automatically
    Christopher> wrap a long text string onto multiple lines.

Quick and dirty if you don't mind breaking in the middle of words and
being destructive to your source string (copy beforehand otherwise):

my @lines;
push @lines, substr( $str, 0, $max_len, '' ) while $str;


The CPAN way:

http://search.cpan.org/~dconway/Text-Autoformat-1.12/lib/Text/Autoformat.pm



From audilover at speedfactory.net  Thu Jan 20 16:35:35 2005
From: audilover at speedfactory.net (Raylynn Knight)
Date: Thu Jan 20 16:35:35 2005
Subject: [ale] NW meeting tonight
Message-ID: <1106256484.25798.3.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>

Could someone with the KSU LUG please contact me either with the new
location for tonight's meeting, or a contact phone number to arrange a
new meeting room.  I'm giving tonight's presentation and would like to
know where to bring the equipment I'm going to need.

I can be reached @ 404-376-1365 any time.

Thanks,
Ray Knight



From mattslistmail at earthlink.net  Thu Jan 20 17:36:40 2005
From: mattslistmail at earthlink.net (Matt Magee)
Date: Thu Jan 20 17:36:40 2005
Subject: [ale] NW meeting tonight
In-Reply-To: <1106256484.25798.3.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
References: <1106256484.25798.3.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
Message-ID: <41F032E4.8030608@earthlink.net>

The room is CL 1009

Raylynn Knight wrote:

>Could someone with the KSU LUG please contact me either with the new
>location for tonight's meeting, or a contact phone number to arrange a
>new meeting room.  I'm giving tonight's presentation and would like to
>know where to bring the equipment I'm going to need.
>
>I can be reached @ 404-376-1365 any time.
>
>Thanks,
>Ray Knight
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Ale mailing list
>Ale at ale.org
>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
>  
>


From audilover at speedfactory.net  Thu Jan 20 17:39:23 2005
From: audilover at speedfactory.net (Raylynn Knight)
Date: Thu Jan 20 17:39:23 2005
Subject: [ale] NW meeting tonight
In-Reply-To: <1106256484.25798.3.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
References: <1106256484.25798.3.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
Message-ID: <1106260522.25798.15.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>

On Thu, 2005-01-20 at 16:28 -0500, Raylynn Knight wrote:
> Could someone with the KSU LUG please contact me either with the new
> location for tonight's meeting, or a contact phone number to arrange a
> new meeting room.  I'm giving tonight's presentation and would like to
> know where to bring the equipment I'm going to need.
> 
> I can be reached @ 404-376-1365 any time.
> 
> Thanks,
> Ray Knight
> 
I just got word that the meeting tonight will be in CL 1009 which should
be right next door to the original planned location.



From fzamenski at voyager.net  Thu Jan 20 18:18:21 2005
From: fzamenski at voyager.net (fgz)
Date: Thu Jan 20 18:18:21 2005
Subject: [Fwd: [ale] Allright, folks...]
Message-ID: <200501202314.j0KNE64u048750@mail1.mx.voyager.net>

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Jeff Hubbs wrote:
> |                              From:
> | Jeff Hubbs <hbbs at comcast.net>
> |                          Reply-To:
> | Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> | <ale at ale.org>
> |                                 To:
> |                               Subj:
> | hrweenie at mckesson.com
> | Useless Deadweight
> |
> | Dear McKesson HR Weenie:
> [...]
> This gets my vote for Best Email Satire for 2005; well-written and with
> a funny yet very appropriate cautionary message.
> Barry Hawkins
> All Things Computed
> site: www.alltc.com
> weblog: www.yepthatsme.com
> 

Hear hear! I almost hurt myself reding that! :)
-fgz



From jsheets at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 20 18:24:39 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Thu Jan 20 18:24:39 2005
Subject: [Fwd: [ale] Allright, folks...]
In-Reply-To: <200501202314.j0KNE64u048750@mail1.mx.voyager.net>
Message-ID: <20050120232023.17132.qmail@web54405.mail.yahoo.com>

Funniest part of that whole thing is that the
recruiting girl told me  

"Now you wont be doing very much at all on the night
shift, but we're happy to have you."

*sigh*


--J


--- fgz <fzamenski at voyager.net> wrote:

> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> > 
> > Jeff Hubbs wrote:
> > |                              From:
> > | Jeff Hubbs <hbbs at comcast.net>
> > |                          Reply-To:
> > | Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> > | <ale at ale.org>
> > |                                 To:
> > |                               Subj:
> > | hrweenie at mckesson.com
> > | Useless Deadweight
> > |
> > | Dear McKesson HR Weenie:
> > [...]
> > This gets my vote for Best Email Satire for 2005;
> well-written and with
> > a funny yet very appropriate cautionary message.
> > Barry Hawkins
> > All Things Computed
> > site: www.alltc.com
> > weblog: www.yepthatsme.com
> > 
> 
> Hear hear! I almost hurt myself reding that! :)
> -fgz
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 


From rb211 at tds.net  Thu Jan 20 18:29:13 2005
From: rb211 at tds.net (William Bagwell)
Date: Thu Jan 20 18:29:13 2005
Subject: [Fwd: [ale] Allright, folks...]
In-Reply-To: <20050120232023.17132.qmail@web54405.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20050120232023.17132.qmail@web54405.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200501201825.35231.rb211@tds.net>

On Thursday 20 January 2005 06:20 pm, Jerald Sheets wrote:

> "Now you wont be doing very much at all on the night
> shift, but we're happy to have you."

Night as in 2nd or 3rd? Just curious, love 2nd shift, hate 3rd.
-- 
William


From fzamenski at voyager.net  Thu Jan 20 18:31:10 2005
From: fzamenski at voyager.net (fgz)
Date: Thu Jan 20 18:31:10 2005
Subject: [ale] Governor Proposes Felony for Spammers
Message-ID: <200501202326.j0KNQsKl057963@mail1.mx.voyager.net>

> Jim Popovitch wrote:
> > ATLANTA (AP) _ Georgians who flood the Internet with spam e-mail 
> > could be charged with a felony under a bill proposed today by 
> > Governor Perdue. The Georgia Slam Spam E-Mail Act would punish 
> > spammers with a felony who send more than ten-thousand false or
> > misleading messages in one day, generate large amounts of money 
> > from spam or use minors to help them transmit the e-mails. The 
> > bill also outlines misdemeanor charges for lesser violations. 
> > Perdue urged legislators to pass the act -- quote -- "so that 
> > Georgians can once again check their e-mail without having to 
> > wade through a cesspool of spam."  He made the announcement at 
> > the headquarters of Atlanta-based EarthLink. The Internet service
> > provider endorses the proposed legislation. Perdue says the state 
> > law would only allow law enforcement officials to prosecute 
> > spammers based in Georgia, but hoped other states would enact 
> > similar laws. EarthLink's C-E-O Garry Betty says about 80 percent 
> > of all e-mails are spam. That amounts to as many as 250 (m) million
> > messages a day
> > 
> > See:
> >
http://www.wgst.com/cc-common/local_news_common.html?ID=20050119122652&feed=local

Just went to read that link a few mins ago, and saw this:

Warning: mysql_result(): Unable to jump to row 0 on MySQL result index
12 in /export/home/common/script/localNews.tool on line 13

Warning: mysql_result(): Unable to jump to row 0 on MySQL result index
12 in /export/home/common/script/localNews.tool on line 13

Warning: mysql_result(): Unable to jump to row 0 on MySQL result index
12 in /export/home/common/script/localNews.tool on line 13

Wazzup with that?
-fgz



From jsheets at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 20 18:52:41 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Thu Jan 20 18:52:41 2005
Subject: [Fwd: [ale] Allright, folks...]
In-Reply-To: <200501201825.35231.rb211@tds.net>
Message-ID: <20050120234824.6077.qmail@web54409.mail.yahoo.com>

3rd
--- William Bagwell <rb211 at tds.net> wrote:

> On Thursday 20 January 2005 06:20 pm, Jerald Sheets
> wrote:
> 
> > "Now you wont be doing very much at all on the
> night
> > shift, but we're happy to have you."
> 
> Night as in 2nd or 3rd? Just curious, love 2nd
> shift, hate 3rd.
> -- 
> William
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 


From danscox at mindspring.com  Thu Jan 20 19:04:12 2005
From: danscox at mindspring.com (Danny Cox)
Date: Thu Jan 20 19:04:12 2005
Subject: [ale] Perl Split Question
In-Reply-To: <1106253239.26283.26.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
References: <1106253239.26283.26.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
Message-ID: <1106265583.4739.12.camel@pip>

Christopher,

On Thu, 2005-01-20 at 15:33 -0500, Christopher Fowler wrote:
> Is there a way to use split to split a string into segments of N
> characters.  I want to automatically wrap a long text string onto
> multiple lines.

	See 'fmt(1)'.  It'll try to split at words.

-- 
kernel, n.: A part of an operating system that preserves the
medieval traditions of sorcery and black art.

Danny


From danscox at mindspring.com  Thu Jan 20 19:19:28 2005
From: danscox at mindspring.com (Danny Cox)
Date: Thu Jan 20 19:19:28 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux Does it Again!
Message-ID: <1106266499.4739.28.camel@pip>

All,

	Just wanted to tell y'all this story.  I'm continually amazed at the
wonderful things that folks do because they love Linux.

	This Christmas, I finally got a Lego Mindstorms kit.  It has lots of
parts, but the 'brick' is a microcontroller that can drive three motors,
and receive input from three sensors.  Programs are written on a PC, and
downloaded via an infrared transmitter they call the 'tower' to the
brick.

	I did a little homework previous to getting into it, and found NQC,
"Not Quite C", a language developed by David Baum, which looks a lot
like C, but isn't really, that runs under Linux.  In addition to
compiling source to microcode, it also drives the infrared tower.  The
tower is USB, and the NQC source gives a link to the Linux USB driver
for the thing.

	Well, I've done a little kernel hacking, and I can spot iffy code
sometimes.  This was iffy code.  Upon initialization, it would be
kmalloc()-ing various members of it's structure, but upon failure, it
simply bailed.  It never kfree()-ed what it had grabbed!  Memory leaks
for sure!  I continued googling around, and stumbled across an entry for
a patch or two to the driver.  The patches were done by Greg KH, Mister
USB himself!  Hmm!  I'm running Fedora Core 3, so I looked
in /lib/modules/2.6.10-1.741_FC3/kernel/drivers/usb/misc, and found,
would you believe it? "legousbtower.ko"!  It's ready to go!  I started a
tail -f on messages, plugged in the tower, and Bingo! it recognized it
right off!  I had to add a line to the permissions and rules for the
hotplug stuff to create the /dev link, but there it was!

	And they say that Linux isn't a SERIOUS OS.  Let's see you find a
legousbtower module on Solaris! ;-)

-- 
kernel, n.: A part of an operating system that preserves the
medieval traditions of sorcery and black art.

Danny


From aaron at pd.org  Thu Jan 20 19:43:49 2005
From: aaron at pd.org (aaron)
Date: Thu Jan 20 19:43:49 2005
Subject: [ale] Fwd: [-EFGA-] Volunteers needed
Message-ID: <012020051849.14853.41EFFD3E00023EAD00003A052200735834989D0E@comcast.net>

The fax server will not be a used for "blind" faxing or advertising.
The intended use is for contacting our public representatives.

I'm open to server recommendations and could use a little advice with security
to reduce chances of the setup being ABused by outsiders. I have fax4CUPS with 
efax semi working in test on my home LAN, but CUPS isn't doing proper 
re-queue and re-try when a fax attempt gets a busy signal or other abort 
condition. I've also started looking into hylafax.

peace
(because liberty can only  be spread by a nation at peace)
aaron

> On Thu, 2005-01-20 at 10:53 +0000, aaron wrote:
> 
> > (I'm trying to help them set up a fax server right now myself, and would 
> > welcome advice sent to  <aaron at pd.org>)
> 
> This isn't going to be one of those fax servers that spams everybody's
> fax machine is it?
> 
> Shortly before shutting down our (mostly unused) Atlanta office, I
> stopped by one day only to find 100 pages of junk faxes strewn around
> the floor in front of the fax machine.  Sure it's illegal to blindly fax
> someone, but so are a host of other things that people do.
> 
> -Jim P.
> 


From dcorbin at machturtle.com  Thu Jan 20 21:25:03 2005
From: dcorbin at machturtle.com (David Corbin)
Date: Thu Jan 20 21:25:03 2005
Subject: [ale] Tiki problems
Message-ID: <200501202119.41419.dcorbin@machturtle.com>

I have a web site for an open source project that I'm "somewhat responsible 
for" that uses Tiki.  I inherited this, and unforunately, I know virtually 
nothing about it or PHP.

"Suddenly" I get these errors...

Warning: main(DB.php): failed to open stream: No such file or directory 
in /home/groups/p/p4/p4eclipse/htdocs/tiki/db/tiki-db.php on line 4

Fatal error: main(): Failed opening required 
'DB.php' (include_path='.:/usr/local/lib/php') 
in /home/groups/p/p4/p4eclipse/htdocs/tiki/db/tiki-db.php on line 4

Obviously, it can't find the DB.php file on it's path.  But I have no clue 
where DB.php comes from.

If anybody would like to help me here, or even just fix it for me (grin), 
please let me know.

David


From pras at cycloeastern.com  Thu Jan 20 23:07:26 2005
From: pras at cycloeastern.com (pras at cycloeastern.com)
Date: Thu Jan 20 23:07:26 2005
Subject: [ale] Governor Proposes Felony for Spammers
In-Reply-To: <200501202326.j0KNQsKl057963@mail1.mx.voyager.net>
References: <200501202326.j0KNQsKl057963@mail1.mx.voyager.net>
Message-ID: <20050121044047.GA13452@cycloeastern.com>

mysql_result() is used in PHP to get results from a query as you can see here.
http://fr.php.net/mysql_result

I bet this website is not getting a result for its sql query and PHP is 
attempting to jump to the first record of the result.

-Prasanna


On Thu, Jan 20, 2005 at 06:26:54PM -0500, fgz wrote:
> > Jim Popovitch wrote:
> > > ATLANTA (AP) _ Georgians who flood the Internet with spam e-mail 
> > > could be charged with a felony under a bill proposed today by 
> > > Governor Perdue. The Georgia Slam Spam E-Mail Act would punish 
> > > spammers with a felony who send more than ten-thousand false or
> > > misleading messages in one day, generate large amounts of money 
> > > from spam or use minors to help them transmit the e-mails. The 
> > > bill also outlines misdemeanor charges for lesser violations. 
> > > Perdue urged legislators to pass the act -- quote -- "so that 
> > > Georgians can once again check their e-mail without having to 
> > > wade through a cesspool of spam."  He made the announcement at 
> > > the headquarters of Atlanta-based EarthLink. The Internet service
> > > provider endorses the proposed legislation. Perdue says the state 
> > > law would only allow law enforcement officials to prosecute 
> > > spammers based in Georgia, but hoped other states would enact 
> > > similar laws. EarthLink's C-E-O Garry Betty says about 80 percent 
> > > of all e-mails are spam. That amounts to as many as 250 (m) million
> > > messages a day
> > > 
> > > See:
> > >
> http://www.wgst.com/cc-common/local_news_common.html?ID=20050119122652&feed=local
> 
> Just went to read that link a few mins ago, and saw this:
> 
> Warning: mysql_result(): Unable to jump to row 0 on MySQL result index
> 12 in /export/home/common/script/localNews.tool on line 13
> 
> Warning: mysql_result(): Unable to jump to row 0 on MySQL result index
> 12 in /export/home/common/script/localNews.tool on line 13
> 
> Warning: mysql_result(): Unable to jump to row 0 on MySQL result index
> 12 in /export/home/common/script/localNews.tool on line 13
> 
> Wazzup with that?
> -fgz
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From brian.stanaland at gmail.com  Fri Jan 21 01:30:47 2005
From: brian.stanaland at gmail.com (Brian Stanaland)
Date: Fri Jan 21 01:30:47 2005
Subject: [Fwd: [ale] Allright, folks...]
In-Reply-To: <20050120234824.6077.qmail@web54409.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <200501201825.35231.rb211@tds.net>
	<20050120234824.6077.qmail@web54409.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1beadac7050120213031347f74@mail.gmail.com>

I'm in a "hang out till something breaks" position now.  Me and
another guy bounce between 2nd and 3rd shift each month.

Brian


On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 15:48:24 -0800 (PST), Jerald Sheets
<jsheets at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 3rd
> --- William Bagwell <rb211 at tds.net> wrote:
> 
> > On Thursday 20 January 2005 06:20 pm, Jerald Sheets
> > wrote:
> >
> > > "Now you wont be doing very much at all on the
> > night
> > > shift, but we're happy to have you."
> >
> > Night as in 2nd or 3rd? Just curious, love 2nd
> > shift, hate 3rd.
> > --
> > William
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 


-- 

"Anyone who has the power to make 
you believe absurdities has the power
to make you commit atrocities."

-- Voltaire


From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Fri Jan 21 08:21:22 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Fri Jan 21 08:21:22 2005
Subject: [ale] Dirty Raid
Message-ID: <1106313302.10663.21.camel@linux.linxdev.com>

Should I be concerned about the 'dirty' in my RAID1? 

/dev/md0:
        Version : 00.90.01
  Creation Time : Wed Jan 19 11:00:01 2005
     Raid Level : raid1
     Array Size : 198611456 (189.41 GiB 203.38 GB)
    Device Size : 198611456 (189.41 GiB 203.38 GB)
   Raid Devices : 2
  Total Devices : 2
Preferred Minor : 0
    Persistence : Superblock is persistent

    Update Time : Fri Jan 21 08:14:17 2005
          State : dirty, no-errors
 Active Devices : 2
Working Devices : 2
 Failed Devices : 0
  Spare Devices : 0


    Number   Major   Minor   RaidDevice State
       0       8        1        0      active sync   /dev/sda1
       1       8       17        1      active sync   /dev/sdb1
           UUID : 711b144b:5ff07a2e:015d3a98:ffc16145
         Events : 0.235550




From esoteric at 3times25.net  Fri Jan 21 08:51:46 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Fri Jan 21 08:51:46 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux Does it Again!
In-Reply-To: <1106266499.4739.28.camel@pip>
References: <1106266499.4739.28.camel@pip>
Message-ID: <41F107AB.8030702@3times25.net>

Danny Cox wrote:

> 	Well, I've done a little kernel hacking, and I can spot iffy code
> sometimes.  This was iffy code.  Upon initialization, it would be
> kmalloc()-ing various members of it's structure, but upon failure, it
> simply bailed.  It never kfree()-ed what it had grabbed!  Memory leaks
> for sure!  I continued googling around, and stumbled across an entry for
> a patch or two to the driver.  The patches were done by Greg KH, Mister
> USB himself!  Hmm!  I'm running Fedora Core 3, so I looked
> in /lib/modules/2.6.10-1.741_FC3/kernel/drivers/usb/misc, and found,
> would you believe it? "legousbtower.ko"!

Comes with SuSE 9.2 as well. :)

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jbaldwin at antinode.net  Fri Jan 21 09:33:41 2005
From: jbaldwin at antinode.net (James Baldwin)
Date: Fri Jan 21 09:33:41 2005
Subject: [ale] PDA prefs
In-Reply-To: <1106249034.16329.78.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
References: <1106249034.16329.78.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <C3475F44-6BB8-11D9-BB05-000D93C280F2@antinode.net>

On 20 Jan 2005, at 14:23, James P. Kinney III wrote:

> So what are other Alers using?

I still recommend the Treo 650. My flatmate has a GSM 600 and is very, 
very satisfied with it. The only downside is the lack of bluetooth and 
lack of wireless.

The 650 fixes both of these points: integrated bluetooth and a 
"promise" from Palm to produce drivers for the SDIO wireless card 
sometime in the future (there already exist several hacks, untested by 
me, Enfora is releasing a 802.11b "sled" for the 600s and 650s).

I do recommend avoiding the Sprint (CDMA) version of the 650, the only 
currently available model. Sprint required that Palm handicap the last 
600 they branded and I have no doubt they'll require the same for the 
650s.
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From pras at cycloeastern.com  Fri Jan 21 09:45:54 2005
From: pras at cycloeastern.com (pras at cycloeastern.com)
Date: Fri Jan 21 09:45:54 2005
Subject: [ale] Tiki problems
In-Reply-To: <200501202119.41419.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
References: <200501202119.41419.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
Message-ID: <20050121151925.GA16505@cycloeastern.com>

2 things:

What is line 4 of tiki-db.php ?
Hoping you run slocate, can you try `locate DB.php'


On Thu, Jan 20, 2005 at 09:19:41PM -0500, David Corbin wrote:
> I have a web site for an open source project that I'm "somewhat responsible 
> for" that uses Tiki.  I inherited this, and unforunately, I know virtually 
> nothing about it or PHP.
> 
> "Suddenly" I get these errors...
> 
> Warning: main(DB.php): failed to open stream: No such file or directory 
> in /home/groups/p/p4/p4eclipse/htdocs/tiki/db/tiki-db.php on line 4
> 
> Fatal error: main(): Failed opening required 
> 'DB.php' (include_path='.:/usr/local/lib/php') 
> in /home/groups/p/p4/p4eclipse/htdocs/tiki/db/tiki-db.php on line 4
> 
> Obviously, it can't find the DB.php file on it's path.  But I have no clue 
> where DB.php comes from.
> 
> If anybody would like to help me here, or even just fix it for me (grin), 
> please let me know.
> 
> David
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From Dow.Hurst at mindspring.com  Fri Jan 21 10:31:09 2005
From: Dow.Hurst at mindspring.com (Dow Hurst)
Date: Fri Jan 21 10:31:09 2005
Subject: [ale] Dirty Raid
In-Reply-To: <1106313302.10663.21.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
References: <1106313302.10663.21.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
Message-ID: <41F11F3E.5030509@mindspring.com>

If you "sync" does it go away?
dow


Christopher Fowler wrote:

>Should I be concerned about the 'dirty' in my RAID1? 
>
>/dev/md0:
>        Version : 00.90.01
>  Creation Time : Wed Jan 19 11:00:01 2005
>     Raid Level : raid1
>     Array Size : 198611456 (189.41 GiB 203.38 GB)
>    Device Size : 198611456 (189.41 GiB 203.38 GB)
>   Raid Devices : 2
>  Total Devices : 2
>Preferred Minor : 0
>    Persistence : Superblock is persistent
>
>    Update Time : Fri Jan 21 08:14:17 2005
>          State : dirty, no-errors
> Active Devices : 2
>Working Devices : 2
> Failed Devices : 0
>  Spare Devices : 0
>
>
>    Number   Major   Minor   RaidDevice State
>       0       8        1        0      active sync   /dev/sda1
>       1       8       17        1      active sync   /dev/sdb1
>           UUID : 711b144b:5ff07a2e:015d3a98:ffc16145
>         Events : 0.235550
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Ale mailing list
>Ale at ale.org
>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
>  
>


From sergio at turbocorp.com  Fri Jan 21 13:06:52 2005
From: sergio at turbocorp.com (Sergio Chaves)
Date: Fri Jan 21 13:06:52 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux Does it Again!
References: <1106266499.4739.28.camel@pip> <41F107AB.8030702@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <41F143B4.5000408@turbocorp.com>

Hey Geoff, it comes on Mandrake 10.1 too ;-) !

Geoffrey wrote:

> Danny Cox wrote:
>
>>     Well, I've done a little kernel hacking, and I can spot iffy code
>> sometimes.  This was iffy code.  Upon initialization, it would be
>> kmalloc()-ing various members of it's structure, but upon failure, it
>> simply bailed.  It never kfree()-ed what it had grabbed!  Memory leaks
>> for sure!  I continued googling around, and stumbled across an entry for
>> a patch or two to the driver.  The patches were done by Greg KH, Mister
>> USB himself!  Hmm!  I'm running Fedora Core 3, so I looked
>> in /lib/modules/2.6.10-1.741_FC3/kernel/drivers/usb/misc, and found,
>> would you believe it? "legousbtower.ko"!
>
>
> Comes with SuSE 9.2 as well. :)
>

-- 
  ?v?          Sergio Chaves            ?v?
 /(_)\       www.turbocorp.com         /(_)\   
  ^ ^    Enhanced Solutions Computing   ^ ^
               770.532.2239 
             Linux User #221305




From esoteric at 3times25.net  Fri Jan 21 13:19:56 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Fri Jan 21 13:19:56 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux Does it Again!
In-Reply-To: <41F143B4.5000408@turbocorp.com>
References: <1106266499.4739.28.camel@pip> <41F107AB.8030702@3times25.net>
	<41F143B4.5000408@turbocorp.com>
Message-ID: <41F146CC.4060903@3times25.net>

Sergio Chaves wrote:
> Hey Geoff, it comes on Mandrake 10.1 too ;-) !

Yeah, but I'm a little old for legos.. :)

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From cor.angela at mindspring.com  Fri Jan 21 14:20:27 2005
From: cor.angela at mindspring.com (Cor van Dijk)
Date: Fri Jan 21 14:20:27 2005
Subject: [ale] End of Upgrade hell
In-Reply-To: <20050119203024.75368.qmail@web54401.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20050119203024.75368.qmail@web54401.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <41F15615.4020609@mindspring.com>

Jerald Sheets wrote:

>Dude...  I'll happily bring you the discs of your
>choice.  That version is also ancient...
>
>
>--- Cor van Dijk <cor.angela at mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Geoffrey wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>James Taylor wrote:
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>I downloaded the DVD from SuSE a couple of days
>>>>        
>>>>
>>ago, and installed it on
>>    
>>
>>>>an AMD64 machine yesterday.  There's way too much
>>>>        
>>>>
>>of what I use missing
>>    
>>
>>>>from the download DVD.
>>>>I went ahead and installed it anyway because I
>>>>        
>>>>
>>loaned my retail DVD out
>>    
>>
>>>>and haven't gotten it back yet.  The CDs don't
>>>>        
>>>>
>>include the 64-bit kernel
>>    
>>
>>>>as an option...
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>Maybe that's the difference between the two? 
>>>      
>>>
>>Seems the retail boxed 
>>    
>>
>>>version is about twice the size of the download.
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>Greetings,
>>
>>Thanks to all who responded to my problem.
>>
>>1. The card in the laptop is a generic Trident
>>Cyberblade
>>2. The system only hangs when in an X GUI, this
>>points to a software problem
>>     rather than a chipset probem
>>3. Upgrading is the most obvious solution, though it
>>is not guaranteed 
>>to work;
>>       it is also the easy way out. Remember what
>>the "e" in "ale" 
>>stands for, we
>>       tackle problems don't we?
>>4. Talking about paying "through the nose", my
>>dialup is half the price 
>>of a DSL.
>>    Downloading 7 GB over a dialup connection?
>>    That difference easily pays for a boxed set once
>>a  year.
>>5. I am going to try my Suse 8.2 now, in tiny
>>lettering on the box it 
>>says that it
>>    will work on a laptop, not sure about usb
>>support, but will probably 
>>find out.
>>6. I do appreciate all comments, keep up the good
>>work!
>>
>>Cor van Dijk
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Ale mailing list
>>Ale at ale.org
>>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>
>>    
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Ale mailing list
>Ale at ale.org
>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>  
>
Maybe that version is ancient but it works like a charm! Does all of the 
things
I was looking for. Main problem during the installation was poor 
guidance and
a sloppy manual. Even Yggdrasil was better in that respect.

Thanks for your offer anyway. Happy Mandraking 100.10 on your DSL!
Cor van Dijk.



From drifter at oppositelock.org  Fri Jan 21 14:21:37 2005
From: drifter at oppositelock.org (Sean Kilpatrick)
Date: Fri Jan 21 14:21:37 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux Does it Again!
In-Reply-To: <41F146CC.4060903@3times25.net>
References: <1106266499.4739.28.camel@pip> <41F143B4.5000408@turbocorp.com>
	<41F146CC.4060903@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <200501211416.11561.drifter@oppositelock.org>

On Friday 21 January 2005 01:15 pm, Geoffrey wrote:
| Yeah, but I'm a little old for legos.. :)

Oh, Geoffrey,
  Say it isn't so! :)

We should never be too old for mechanical puzzles.

Sean

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From barry at alltc.com  Fri Jan 21 14:25:52 2005
From: barry at alltc.com (Barry Hawkins)
Date: Fri Jan 21 14:25:52 2005
Subject: [ale] PDA prefs
In-Reply-To: <C3475F44-6BB8-11D9-BB05-000D93C280F2@antinode.net>
References: <1106249034.16329.78.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
	<C3475F44-6BB8-11D9-BB05-000D93C280F2@antinode.net>
Message-ID: <41F15627.5030109@alltc.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

James Baldwin wrote:
[...]
| I do recommend avoiding the Sprint (CDMA) version of the 650, the only
| currently available model. Sprint required that Palm handicap the last
| 600 they branded and I have no doubt they'll require the same for the
650s.
[...]
Those interested in a Treo 650 may want to hold out; there have been a
couple of serious problems with phone sound quality and memory defects.
~ You can google or check somewhere like treocentral.com for more
concrete information.

- --
Barry Hawkins
All Things Computed
site: www.alltc.com
weblog: www.yepthatsme.com

Registered Linux User #368650
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From esoteric at 3times25.net  Fri Jan 21 14:55:52 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Fri Jan 21 14:55:52 2005
Subject: [ale] Linux Does it Again!
In-Reply-To: <200501211416.11561.drifter@oppositelock.org>
References: <1106266499.4739.28.camel@pip>
	<41F143B4.5000408@turbocorp.com>	<41F146CC.4060903@3times25.net>
	<200501211416.11561.drifter@oppositelock.org>
Message-ID: <41F15D47.3070602@3times25.net>

Sean Kilpatrick wrote:
> On Friday 21 January 2005 01:15 pm, Geoffrey wrote:
> | Yeah, but I'm a little old for legos.. :)
> 
> Oh, Geoffrey,
>   Say it isn't so! :)
> 
> We should never be too old for mechanical puzzles.

Okay, actually, I've been waiting for them to come out with the Duplostorms!

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From brandon at geekrus.net  Fri Jan 21 16:40:38 2005
From: brandon at geekrus.net (Brandon Colbert)
Date: Fri Jan 21 16:40:38 2005
Subject: [ale] Virtual users/VSFTPD
Message-ID: <41F17573.4070807@geekrus.net>

How do I setup virtual users in VSFTPD?


From kafka at antichri.st  Fri Jan 21 17:09:44 2005
From: kafka at antichri.st (George Carless)
Date: Fri Jan 21 17:09:44 2005
Subject: [ale] Job openings
In-Reply-To: <20050119232812.GA18469@antichri.st>
References: <20050119232812.GA18469@antichri.st>
Message-ID: <20050121220527.GB9408@antichri.st>

All,

The techie internship (paid) has now been approved at my company. 
Suited for anyone who's in Atlanta and doing a degree in comp sci, web
development, etc.  Lots of scope for interesting projects involving
any/all of xhtml, css, php, mysql, perl, etc. etc.  This is for a
stable, largish software company.  Probably around 20-25 hrs/week 
required.

If you may be interested, email me w/ a description of yourself (i.e. 
your interests, skills, etc.) and a resume (whatever format you like).

Thanks,
--George

--------------------------------------
George Carless ... kafka at antichri.st
Words are just dust in deserts of sound


From greg.freemyer at gmail.com  Fri Jan 21 18:16:56 2005
From: greg.freemyer at gmail.com (Greg Freemyer)
Date: Fri Jan 21 18:16:56 2005
Subject: [ale] "easy to use" database
In-Reply-To: <1106181047.4540.297.camel@juanita>
References: <41EE9D69.90206@mindspring.com>
	<1106157371.21717.24.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
	<cd08a04c050119100470f814ed@mail.gmail.com>
	<41EEB892.4050705@mindspring.com> <1106181047.4540.297.camel@juanita>
Message-ID: <87f94c3705012115121dd9ae7f@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 19:30:47 -0500, Jeff Hubbs <hbbs at comcast.net> wrote:
> That kind of ordered-data thing sounds like something you could do in
> Zope without even doing any real coding.
> 
> Jeff

Not knowing anything about Zope, would it be a good choice to develop
a simple database entry screen that could be used internally by about
5 of us.  Learning curve and multi-user aspects across the LAN are my
two main concerns.

The database itself could be anything (MySQL, etc.), and will likely
only have a couple thousand entries for a long time.  (I assume Zope
is just a front-end).

The only real intelligence I need the gui/form to have is an
autoincrementing field.  (We currently use F-05-101 to signify the
first record of 2005, but we could track just the 101 part and
hard-code the F-05 part.)

Thanks
Greg
-- 
Greg Freemyer


From dcorbin at machturtle.com  Fri Jan 21 20:42:34 2005
From: dcorbin at machturtle.com (David Corbin)
Date: Fri Jan 21 20:42:34 2005
Subject: [ale] Tiki problems
In-Reply-To: <20050121151925.GA16505@cycloeastern.com>
References: <200501202119.41419.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
	<20050121151925.GA16505@cycloeastern.com>
Message-ID: <200501212037.00582.dcorbin@machturtle.com>

On Friday 21 January 2005 10:19 am, pras at cycloeastern.com wrote:
> 2 things:
>
> What is line 4 of tiki-db.php ?

require_once('DB.php')

> Hoping you run slocate, can you try `locate DB.php'

No joy.  I was hoping it was a "well known PHP file".

David


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Sat Jan 22 11:34:39 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Sat Jan 22 11:34:39 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <008801c4ff2d$35cd6180$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>
	<008801c4ff2d$35cd6180$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
Message-ID: <41F27F55.9020308@3times25.net>

Ryan Fish wrote:
> I am not sure about Comcast's offerings but do know that BellSouth offers
> static IPs on their service.  It is free with the DSL Extreme package or you
> can pay an extra $14.95/month for one (seems a bit pricy to me though).

I will never use BellSouth services again.  As soon as my current cell 
phone contracts expire I'll be moving my service.  That's 5 cell phones. 
  There were with AT&T, but since Cingular has basically bought AT&T 
Wireless and Cingular is partly owned by BellSouth, I'll not renew any 
of these phones with them.

BellSouth is no longer a choice of mine.  I only use there services 
where I'm required, such as my current contractual obligations and the 
necessity to keep my DSL active.

I'm actually going to look into adding another land line via another 
provider and getting DSL on it.  I'm willing to pay for overlapping DSL 
service in order to get rid of my BellSouth services.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From ale1 at cybertechcafe.net  Sat Jan 22 13:03:56 2005
From: ale1 at cybertechcafe.net (Nathan J. Underwood)
Date: Sat Jan 22 13:03:56 2005
Subject: [ale] LVM - Can't add new drive?
Message-ID: <41F294A8.9020407@cybertechcafe.net>

I have an FC3 box with a single 30GB drive.  When I built the box, I 
knew that I would need more than the 30GB for the /home partition, but 
didn't have a larger drive at the time (had one, but it was in use in 
the box that this box is replacing).  At any rate, I setup the /home 
partition to be an lvm partition.  I'm now to the point of adding the 
new drive to the new machine, but I can't seem to get it to 'see' that 
new space.  I added the drive, and created (using fdisk) added one 
single 160GB lvm (type 8e) partition.  I then used vgextend to add that 
drive to my volume group (VolGroup00, not creative, but that wasn't the 
idea).  Then, I did lvextend -L 100G /dev/VolGroup00/LogVol00, and got 
no errors.  lvdisplay shows that the LVSize is 150.00GB, but df -h only 
shows the following:

[root at linux-fs2 home]# df -h
Filesystem            Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/hda1             9.7G  1.7G  7.5G  19% /
none                  252M     0  252M   0% /dev/shm
/dev/mapper/VolGroup00-LogVol00
                        18G  4.5G   13G  27% /home

I'm on the howto from tldp 
(http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO/index.html) now trying to figure 
out what I've missed, but would appreciate any gentle nudges in the 
right direction.

nathan


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No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005


From ale1 at cybertechcafe.net  Sat Jan 22 13:23:04 2005
From: ale1 at cybertechcafe.net (Nathan J. Underwood)
Date: Sat Jan 22 13:23:04 2005
Subject: [ale] LVM - Can't add new drive?
In-Reply-To: <41F294A8.9020407@cybertechcafe.net>
References: <41F294A8.9020407@cybertechcafe.net>
Message-ID: <41F2993A.9020106@cybertechcafe.net>

Scratch that, found it (I think that this would have been an excellent 
time for an rtfm [read the happy manual] type comment).

Nathan J. Underwood
Cyber Tech Cafe' <><
http://www.cybertechcafe.net

Nathan J. Underwood wrote:
> I have an FC3 box with a single 30GB drive.  When I built the box, I 
> knew that I would need more than the 30GB for the /home partition, but 
> didn't have a larger drive at the time (had one, but it was in use in 
> the box that this box is replacing).  At any rate, I setup the /home 
> partition to be an lvm partition.  I'm now to the point of adding the 
> new drive to the new machine, but I can't seem to get it to 'see' that 
> new space.  I added the drive, and created (using fdisk) added one 
> single 160GB lvm (type 8e) partition.  I then used vgextend to add that 
> drive to my volume group (VolGroup00, not creative, but that wasn't the 
> idea).  Then, I did lvextend -L 100G /dev/VolGroup00/LogVol00, and got 
> no errors.  lvdisplay shows that the LVSize is 150.00GB, but df -h only 
> shows the following:
> 
> [root at linux-fs2 home]# df -h
> Filesystem            Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
> /dev/hda1             9.7G  1.7G  7.5G  19% /
> none                  252M     0  252M   0% /dev/shm
> /dev/mapper/VolGroup00-LogVol00
>                        18G  4.5G   13G  27% /home
> 
> I'm on the howto from tldp 
> (http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO/index.html) now trying to figure 
> out what I've missed, but would appreciate any gentle nudges in the 
> right direction.
> 
> nathan
> 
> 


-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005


From kpirkle at gmail.com  Sat Jan 22 13:30:25 2005
From: kpirkle at gmail.com (Kent Pirkle)
Date: Sat Jan 22 13:30:25 2005
Subject: [ale] LVM - Can't add new drive?
In-Reply-To: <41F294A8.9020407@cybertechcafe.net>
References: <41F294A8.9020407@cybertechcafe.net>
Message-ID: <3db9e987050122102627b8ce48@mail.gmail.com>

Once you've extended the logical volume, you need to extend the
filesystem as well, using either resize2fs or ext2online (to resize
without unmounting).b

If you want to shrink a logical volume, always shrink the filesystem
first, then the lv.


On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 13:00:08 -0500, Nathan J. Underwood
<ale1 at cybertechcafe.net> wrote:
> I have an FC3 box with a single 30GB drive.  When I built the box, I
> knew that I would need more than the 30GB for the /home partition, but
> didn't have a larger drive at the time (had one, but it was in use in
> the box that this box is replacing).  At any rate, I setup the /home
> partition to be an lvm partition.  I'm now to the point of adding the
> new drive to the new machine, but I can't seem to get it to 'see' that
> new space.  I added the drive, and created (using fdisk) added one
> single 160GB lvm (type 8e) partition.  I then used vgextend to add that
> drive to my volume group (VolGroup00, not creative, but that wasn't the
> idea).  Then, I did lvextend -L 100G /dev/VolGroup00/LogVol00, and got
> no errors.  lvdisplay shows that the LVSize is 150.00GB, but df -h only
> shows the following:
> 
> [root at linux-fs2 home]# df -h
> Filesystem            Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
> /dev/hda1             9.7G  1.7G  7.5G  19% /
> none                  252M     0  252M   0% /dev/shm
> /dev/mapper/VolGroup00-LogVol00
>                         18G  4.5G   13G  27% /home
> 
> I'm on the howto from tldp
> (http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO/index.html) now trying to figure
> out what I've missed, but would appreciate any gentle nudges in the
> right direction.
> 
> nathan
> 
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 22 13:38:34 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sat Jan 22 13:38:34 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <41F27F55.9020308@3times25.net>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>
	<008801c4ff2d$35cd6180$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<41F27F55.9020308@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <1106418776.5844.5.camel@blue>

On Sat, 2005-01-22 at 11:29 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:

> I will never use BellSouth services again.  

Geoff,

Just what is it about BellSouth that has caused you to just absolutely
dispise them?  It seems that everytime someone makes an ALE post, with
the work BellSouth in it, you just have to fire off your discontent.  Is
this a "middle-age angry white-guy" thing or is it more serious?

Just wondering,

-Jim P.




From esoteric at 3times25.net  Sat Jan 22 14:37:26 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Sat Jan 22 14:37:26 2005
Subject: [ale] "easy to use" database
In-Reply-To: <87f94c3705012115121dd9ae7f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41EE9D69.90206@mindspring.com>	<1106157371.21717.24.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>	<cd08a04c050119100470f814ed@mail.gmail.com>	<41EEB892.4050705@mindspring.com>
	<1106181047.4540.297.camel@juanita>
	<87f94c3705012115121dd9ae7f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41F2AA72.8000506@3times25.net>

Greg Freemyer wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 19:30:47 -0500, Jeff Hubbs <hbbs at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
>>That kind of ordered-data thing sounds like something you could do in
>>Zope without even doing any real coding.
>>
>>Jeff
> 
> 
> Not knowing anything about Zope, would it be a good choice to develop
> a simple database entry screen that could be used internally by about
> 5 of us.  Learning curve and multi-user aspects across the LAN are my
> two main concerns.

I've not used it, but I understand you can use OpenOffice to create 
forms for Postgresql.  Postgresql is easy to install and has a wonderful 
command line tool for database access. (psql).

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Sat Jan 22 14:57:14 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Sat Jan 22 14:57:14 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <1106418776.5844.5.camel@blue>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>	<008801c4ff2d$35cd6180$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>	<41F27F55.9020308@3times25.net>
	<1106418776.5844.5.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <41F2AF11.2000903@3times25.net>

Jim Popovitch wrote:
> On Sat, 2005-01-22 at 11:29 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> 
> 
>>I will never use BellSouth services again.  
> 
> Geoff,
> 
> Just what is it about BellSouth that has caused you to just absolutely
> dispise them?  It seems that everytime someone makes an ALE post, with
> the work BellSouth in it, you just have to fire off your discontent.  Is
> this a "middle-age angry white-guy" thing or is it more serious?

Actually, I'm beyond middle age, I think...

I've posted to the list regarding my issues in the past.  It is in fact 
based on fact.

1. When my 2nd line went dead, I contacted BellSouth and was told it 
would be fixed in 3 days.  What kind of service is that?  Further, it 
turns out that a technican had screwed it up while working with other 
services, yet they did not expedite repairing the problem they caused.

2. BellSouth constantly get's in the way of other providers, whether 
it's local service or dsl.  This is not competitive, it is 
anti-competitive.  They are the reason you can't get dsl without a 
dialtone via Speedfactory.

3.  I've often (as in > 10 times) caught BellSouth Techs using my 2nd 
phone line to place calls when in the field.  I was told that this is a 
common practice.  Further I caught one guy talking trash to his girl.  I 
was told that they'll pick a 2nd line since it's assumed it's a fax or 
something.  Doesn't matter if you're expecting a call or something now 
does it?

4. When contacting BellSouth for service I received the same attitude 
from the cust. dis-service persons.  In two different situations, I made 
the comment that I did not think that they were cust. oriented and that 
I might consider taking my business elsewhere.  Both responded in the 
same way, offering to assist me disconnect my service.

5. I recently had a client move to a new location.  BellSouth screwed up 
one of their voice lines when setting up the dsl.  At the time, that 
line was their connectivity to the internet.  Dial tone gone, no 
internet.  The next BellSouth tech told me that who ever tried to setup 
the dsl was an idiot (his words).  He'd swapped the trans./rec. and had 
left some hardware completely out of the dslam.  He said it would never 
have worked.

Need more?  Incompetence, arrogance, customer dis-service and a local 
monopoly that acts like one.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 22 15:52:48 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sat Jan 22 15:52:48 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <41F2AF11.2000903@3times25.net>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>
	<008801c4ff2d$35cd6180$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>	<41F27F55.9020308@3times25.net>
	<1106418776.5844.5.camel@blue>  <41F2AF11.2000903@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <1106426849.6815.19.camel@blue>

On Sat, 2005-01-22 at 14:52 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:

> 1. When my 2nd line went dead, I contacted BellSouth and was told it 
> would be fixed in 3 days.  What kind of service is that?  

Standard service response time.  Read your paperwork.

> Further, it 
> turns out that a technican had screwed it up while working with other 
> services, yet they did not expedite repairing the problem they caused.

That is not standard service, although it does happen and it is not
unique to BellSouth or the telecommunications industry.  Drive-through
fast food restaurants (a place where a lot of people obviously spend
more per month then they do on their phone bill) routinely experience
service delivery problems.

> 
> 2. BellSouth constantly get's in the way of other providers, whether 
> it's local service or dsl.  This is not competitive, it is 
> anti-competitive.  They are the reason you can't get dsl without a 
> dialtone via Speedfactory.

Are they doing something illegal?  If so sue them.  If not, you really
have no grounds for complaint.

> 
> 3.  I've often (as in > 10 times) caught BellSouth Techs using my 2nd 
> phone line to place calls when in the field.  I was told that this is a 
> common practice.  Further I caught one guy talking trash to his girl.  I 
> was told that they'll pick a 2nd line since it's assumed it's a fax or 
> something.  Doesn't matter if you're expecting a call or something now 
> does it?

Whose wire is it?  Sure you might have rented a service from them, but
the reality is that you don't own those wires.  Again, read your service
contract.  Need a dedicated line?  Get a leased line.  

> 
> 4. When contacting BellSouth for service I received the same attitude 
> from the cust. dis-service persons.  

**  "dis-service persons" <-- I see you share that very same attitude
problem.  Perhaps the resolution of a technical problem is being held
hostage by an attitude problem.  Customer service is a two-way street.
No CSR likes an a**hole for a customer, just like no customer likes an
a**hole for a CSR.  When either delves to that level, the onus is on the
other to move on and get over it so that the *real* problem can be
solved.

> In two different situations, I made 
> the comment that I did not think that they were cust. oriented and that 
> I might consider taking my business elsewhere.  Both responded in the 
> same way, offering to assist me disconnect my service.

Ok, you indicated you might leave BellSouth, what kind of "customer"
response do you expect at that point?  What can you possibly expect for
paying a few lousy dollars per month?

> 5. I recently had a client move to a new location.  BellSouth screwed up 
> one of their voice lines when setting up the dsl.  At the time, that 
> line was their connectivity to the internet.  Dial tone gone, no 
> internet.  The next BellSouth tech told me that who ever tried to setup 
> the dsl was an idiot (his words).  He'd swapped the trans./rec. and had 
> left some hardware completely out of the dslam.  He said it would never 
> have worked.

That problem isn't unusual, nor unique to you, BellSouth, nor DSL.

> Need more?  Incompetence, arrogance, customer dis-service and a local 
> monopoly that acts like one.

See ** comment above.

At some point you wind up getting labeled as a perpetual complainer.  Be
known for something better than that.

-Jim P.





From kafka at antichri.st  Sat Jan 22 17:15:19 2005
From: kafka at antichri.st (George Carless)
Date: Sat Jan 22 17:15:19 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <1106426849.6815.19.camel@blue>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>
	<008801c4ff2d$35cd6180$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<41F27F55.9020308@3times25.net> <1106418776.5844.5.camel@blue>
	<41F2AF11.2000903@3times25.net> <1106426849.6815.19.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <20050122221056.GA25562@antichri.st>

> **  "dis-service persons" <-- I see you share that very same attitude
> problem.  Perhaps the resolution of a technical problem is being held
> hostage by an attitude problem.  Customer service is a two-way street.
> No CSR likes an a**hole for a customer, just like no customer likes an
> a**hole for a CSR.  When either delves to that level, the onus is on the
> other to move on and get over it so that the *real* problem can be
> solved.

What's with the apologism?  The CSR is being *payed to do a job*, and 
frankly I couldn't care less if someone I speak to when I'm unhappy 
about a service doesn't like my 'attitude'.  The onus is NEVER on the 
customer; it is always on the company and on its representatives.  
Now, of course it is often helpful and prudent to be polite to 
people--but, nonetheless, I tire of the attitude that seems so 
prevalent in the USA that it's okay for customer service people to be 
rude, flip, unhelpful.  And when they *are* those things, people 
should vote with their wallets and take their money elsewhere; and, 
furthermore, there's nothing wrong with telling other people about 
the poor service that has been experienced, so that those people can 
avoid having problems of their own.  

> Ok, you indicated you might leave BellSouth, what kind of "customer"
> response do you expect at that point?  What can you possibly expect for
> paying a few lousy dollars per month?

If people are paying money for a service--and 'a few lousy dollars 
per month' from thousands of people adds up to a lot of money--they 
have every right to determine for themselves what level of service 
they feel they have a right to expect, and I find it frankly rather 
rude, and quite baffling, that you should be arguing that their 
complaints are misplaced because, what, they're only paying a 
relatively small amount of money?  Now, it is fair to say that 
the consumer *can* sometimes have unrealistic expectations of what he 
or she is getting, failing to read the fine print and the terms of 
service etcetera.  But this should not be seen as an excuse for 
companies to treat the customer rudely; and if they do, they should 
not be surprised if the customer leaves them.  I think businesses in 
America could and should do a lot more in the way of training their 
customer representatives; I suspect that people *do* care about good 
service, and I think that bad attitudes cost companies money.

> > 5. I recently had a client move to a new location.  BellSouth screwed up 
> > one of their voice lines when setting up the dsl.  At the time, that 
> > line was their connectivity to the internet.  Dial tone gone, no 
> > internet.  The next BellSouth tech told me that who ever tried to setup 
> > the dsl was an idiot (his words).  He'd swapped the trans./rec. and had 
> > left some hardware completely out of the dslam.  He said it would never 
> > have worked.
> 
> That problem isn't unusual, nor unique to you, BellSouth, nor DSL.

And so shouldn't be addressed?

> At some point you wind up getting labeled as a perpetual complainer.  Be
> known for something better than that.

As an apologist for poor service?  As a fool who will accept 
ill-treatment because "that's just how it is"?  Monopolies are a 
problem because they don't give people much of a choice; but we 
should still be willing to stand up and complain when problems do 
occur--and, sadly, I think that many of these companies are poorly 
run, provide a poor service, and get away with it because there is no 
viable alternative.

--George

--------------------------------------
George Carless ... kafka at antichri.st
Words are just dust in deserts of sound


From scherrey at proteus-tech.com  Sat Jan 22 17:21:43 2005
From: scherrey at proteus-tech.com (Benjamin Scherrey)
Date: Sat Jan 22 17:21:43 2005
Subject: [ale] How to proxy a web app via Apache & SSH?
Message-ID: <41F2D0E9.2090103@proteus-tech.com>

    I have a CRM application that I intend, if its successful, to deploy 
on an internet hosted server. However, I am still doing testing and 
configuration on it so, for now, I want to run it from my local machine 
at home yet still be able to access it via my web page. This way I can 
see how the thing is running and make a lot of little changes real quick 
(like reload the entire database) without being limited by bandwidth or 
non-physical access to the machine. This is also a stop-gap temporary 
solution and does not warrent setting up IPSec.

    So... my idea is that I would like to be able to use ssh port 
forwarding to make it appear that my application is running on the 
internet server. My user should be able to go to www.myserver.com/myapp 
and have my apache webserver redirect this request via ssh to my inhouse 
machine. This will give me a secure connection to my internal host 
without having to setup SSL or give away my internal static IP address 
to users. Does Apache have this capability? Is my idea a valid one or 
more of a PITA than its worth?

    Appreciate any recommendations on getting my idea to work or a 
better approach that addresses my issues. Doesn't sound like a hard 
thing but I'm a software developer, not a system admin guy. Just know 
enough to get by generally.

    thanx & later,

       Ben Scherrey


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 22 17:56:40 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sat Jan 22 17:56:40 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <20050122221056.GA25562@antichri.st>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>
	<008801c4ff2d$35cd6180$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<41F27F55.9020308@3times25.net>
	<1106418776.5844.5.camel@blue> <41F2AF11.2000903@3times25.net>
	<1106426849.6815.19.camel@blue>  <20050122221056.GA25562@antichri.st>
Message-ID: <1106434284.9921.14.camel@blue>

On Sat, 2005-01-22 at 17:10 -0500, George Carless wrote:

> What's with the apologism?  

What's with the incorrect labeling?  I have BellSouth/Comcast/AT&T
problems just like the next guy.  I'm not apologizing for those
companies, I'm prescribing a means to productively work with them to get
what you wanted in the first place.

> The CSR is being *payed to do a job*, and 
> frankly I couldn't care less if someone I speak to when I'm unhappy 
> about a service doesn't like my 'attitude'.  

But I bet the CSR does.  And therefore the CSR (a low paying postion) is
likely to reply in kind, thus adding to the fire *you*, not them, are
trying to get solved.

> The onus is NEVER on the customer; 

It is when the problem is yours and you want to get is solved rather
than throwing more monkey-wrenches into the issue.  There are two ways
to work towards getting something resolved:  Productively and
Counter-Productively.  The first requires restraint, maturity, and
general level-headedness.  The later takes longer, yields poorer results
and usually (as evidenced here over and over) leaves people bitter.

> it is always on the company and on its representatives.

At some point the company's "representatives" may care less about *your*
problem then you do.

> Now, of course it is often helpful and prudent to be polite to 
> people--but, nonetheless, I tire of the attitude that seems so 
> prevalent in the USA that it's okay for customer service people to be 
> rude, flip, unhelpful.  

I haven't expressed the view that impolite behavior is acceptable,
however (as I previously pointed out) it is a two way street. 

> And when they *are* those things, people 
> should vote with their wallets and take their money elsewhere; 

People with that attitude, coupled with tendencies towards impolite
behavior, will spend their lifetime "taking their money elsewhere".
Therefore the real resolution is in correcting expectations and
attitudes.  The quote "You get what you pay for" doesn't have a better
fit than when dealing with Telcos.  Seriously, can you expect the world
for $50 per month?   If not, is complaining going to get you the world
sooner?  

-Jim P.





From pete.hardie at gmail.com  Sat Jan 22 21:11:58 2005
From: pete.hardie at gmail.com (Pete Hardie)
Date: Sat Jan 22 21:11:58 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <1106426849.6815.19.camel@blue>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>
	<008801c4ff2d$35cd6180$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<41F27F55.9020308@3times25.net> <1106418776.5844.5.camel@blue>
	<41F2AF11.2000903@3times25.net> <1106426849.6815.19.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <31b3224005012218057d09d944@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 15:47:29 -0500, Jim Popovitch <jimpop at yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 2005-01-22 at 14:52 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> > 3.  I've often (as in > 10 times) caught BellSouth Techs using my 2nd
> > phone line to place calls when in the field.  I was told that this is a
> > common practice.  Further I caught one guy talking trash to his girl.  I
> > was told that they'll pick a 2nd line since it's assumed it's a fax or
> > something.  Doesn't matter if you're expecting a call or something now
> > does it?
> 
> Whose wire is it?  Sure you might have rented a service from them, but
> the reality is that you don't own those wires.  Again, read your service
> contract.  Need a dedicated line?  Get a leased line.

It's BellSouth's line - but not the tech's line to make private calls
on.  If I found out that a tech was using one of the lines into *MY*
premises to make personal calls, obstructing my use of a service I pay
for, you can bet I'll be hot - it's not like he was checking the line
by calling his workmate, and happend to  discuss the lunch plans for
that day...


-- 
Better Living Through Bitmaps


From hbbs at comcast.net  Sat Jan 22 21:20:59 2005
From: hbbs at comcast.net (Jeff Hubbs)
Date: Sat Jan 22 21:20:59 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <1106434284.9921.14.camel@blue>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>
	<008801c4ff2d$35cd6180$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<41F27F55.9020308@3times25.net>
	<1106418776.5844.5.camel@blue> <41F2AF11.2000903@3times25.net>
	<1106426849.6815.19.camel@blue>  <20050122221056.GA25562@antichri.st>
	<1106434284.9921.14.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <1106446591.4540.1112.camel@juanita>

What's with calling it unreasonable for a company to fail to provide
service that you're paying for?

Bellsouth behaves like this routinely.  When I lived in Sandy Springs
and had BS-carried DSL from some other provider (I can't remember who
now), one day the DSL carrier vanished and it never returned.  I think
it took over a month and I finally gave up and went AT&T (later
Comcast).  The ISP was very hard to deal with but it seemed like the
dead end was Bellsouth.  BS wouldn't cooperate with them and they
wouldn't cooperate with me either.  As long as BS was in a position to
influence other ISP providers' service and as soon as BS was offering
their own DSL service, BS had little to lose by pounding its competitors
- into the teeth of their competitor's customers.

On Sat, 2005-01-22 at 17:51, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> On Sat, 2005-01-22 at 17:10 -0500, George Carless wrote:
> 
> > What's with the apologism?  
> 
> What's with the incorrect labeling?  I have BellSouth/Comcast/AT&T
> problems just like the next guy.  I'm not apologizing for those
> companies, I'm prescribing a means to productively work with them to get
> what you wanted in the first place.
> 
> > The CSR is being *payed to do a job*, and 
> > frankly I couldn't care less if someone I speak to when I'm unhappy 
> > about a service doesn't like my 'attitude'.  
> 
> But I bet the CSR does.  And therefore the CSR (a low paying postion) is
> likely to reply in kind, thus adding to the fire *you*, not them, are
> trying to get solved.
> 
> > The onus is NEVER on the customer; 
> 
> It is when the problem is yours and you want to get is solved rather
> than throwing more monkey-wrenches into the issue.  There are two ways
> to work towards getting something resolved:  Productively and
> Counter-Productively.  The first requires restraint, maturity, and
> general level-headedness.  The later takes longer, yields poorer results
> and usually (as evidenced here over and over) leaves people bitter.
> 
> > it is always on the company and on its representatives.
> 
> At some point the company's "representatives" may care less about *your*
> problem then you do.
> 
> > Now, of course it is often helpful and prudent to be polite to 
> > people--but, nonetheless, I tire of the attitude that seems so 
> > prevalent in the USA that it's okay for customer service people to be 
> > rude, flip, unhelpful.  
> 
> I haven't expressed the view that impolite behavior is acceptable,
> however (as I previously pointed out) it is a two way street. 
> 
> > And when they *are* those things, people 
> > should vote with their wallets and take their money elsewhere; 
> 
> People with that attitude, coupled with tendencies towards impolite
> behavior, will spend their lifetime "taking their money elsewhere".
> Therefore the real resolution is in correcting expectations and
> attitudes.  The quote "You get what you pay for" doesn't have a better
> fit than when dealing with Telcos.  Seriously, can you expect the world
> for $50 per month?   If not, is complaining going to get you the world
> sooner?  
> 
> -Jim P.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From ringo at margaritasrus.com  Sat Jan 22 21:28:12 2005
From: ringo at margaritasrus.com (ringo)
Date: Sat Jan 22 21:28:12 2005
Subject: [ale] gcc programming
In-Reply-To: <31b3224005012218057d09d944@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0bcd01c500f2$91557670$bb00a8c0@Ringo>

Is this a good forum for asking programming questions or is there a
better one for gcc?
I don't have my C book on me and I need to print debug info to a text
file. Does anyone have a code snippet ob how to open a file and print to
it?

Thanks
Ringo




From esoteric at 3times25.net  Sat Jan 22 21:30:05 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Sat Jan 22 21:30:05 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <1106426849.6815.19.camel@blue>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>	<008801c4ff2d$35cd6180$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>	<41F27F55.9020308@3times25.net>	<1106418776.5844.5.camel@blue>
	<41F2AF11.2000903@3times25.net> <1106426849.6815.19.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <41F30B26.2090209@3times25.net>

Jim Popovitch wrote:
> On Sat, 2005-01-22 at 14:52 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> 
> 
>>1. When my 2nd line went dead, I contacted BellSouth and was told it 
>>would be fixed in 3 days.  What kind of service is that?  
> 
> 
> Standard service response time.  Read your paperwork.

When it's their mistake, I think not.

>>Further, it 
>>turns out that a technican had screwed it up while working with other 
>>services, yet they did not expedite repairing the problem they caused.
> 
> That is not standard service, although it does happen and it is not
> unique to BellSouth or the telecommunications industry.  Drive-through
> fast food restaurants (a place where a lot of people obviously spend
> more per month then they do on their phone bill) routinely experience
> service delivery problems.

Great comparison.  There's a difference in the (supposed) 
educational/training level there.  The burger turner's getting what, 
minimum wage?  The BS tech is making $30/hr or more.  If a plumber 
screws up, you've got water on the floor, if a Doctor screws up, you die.

>>2. BellSouth constantly get's in the way of other providers, whether 
>>it's local service or dsl.  This is not competitive, it is 
>>anti-competitive.  They are the reason you can't get dsl without a 
>>dialtone via Speedfactory.
> 
> Are they doing something illegal?  If so sue them.  If not, you really
> have no grounds for complaint.

Right.  You know anything about large corporations?  You think they 
always play by the book?  You think I'm going to waste my time sueing 
them?  I'm doing what I can as a consumer, I'm getting the word out 
about their lousy service.

Oh, and I do have grounds to complain, because, guess what?  I'm their 
customer.

>>3.  I've often (as in > 10 times) caught BellSouth Techs using my 2nd 
>>phone line to place calls when in the field.  I was told that this is a 
>>common practice.  Further I caught one guy talking trash to his girl.  I 
>>was told that they'll pick a 2nd line since it's assumed it's a fax or 
>>something.  Doesn't matter if you're expecting a call or something now 
>>does it?
> 
> Whose wire is it?  Sure you might have rented a service from them, but
> the reality is that you don't own those wires.  Again, read your service
> contract.  Need a dedicated line?  Get a leased line. 

Oh, so your landlord can come into your apartment and sleep on your bed 
when he wants to. Sure, he can come in and fix a leaky pipe. It's not 
the same thing. I'm paying for a service.

>>4. When contacting BellSouth for service I received the same attitude 
>>from the cust. dis-service persons.  
> 
> 
> **  "dis-service persons" <-- I see you share that very same attitude
> problem.  Perhaps the resolution of a technical problem is being held
> hostage by an attitude problem.  Customer service is a two-way street.
> No CSR likes an a**hole for a customer, just like no customer likes an
> a**hole for a CSR.  When either delves to that level, the onus is on the
> other to move on and get over it so that the *real* problem can be
> solved.

You're making an assumption based on my complaints about BellSouth. 
Call Speedfactory, ask for Darryl and ask him about my dealings with 
them.  You'll find I do appreciate good service.  I left a 25% tip this 
evening at the restuarant we ate at, because we received good service. 
I do that routinely.  I'll also leave 10 or less when it's warranted. 
We ate at a local Waffle House Christmas morning.  I left a $50 tip for 
a $20 meal.  Why?  Because I received good service and the poor woman 
was working Christmas Day.

I appreciate you labeling me an asshole based on your limited knowledge 
of me.  So what shall I call you?

>>In two different situations, I made 
>>the comment that I did not think that they were cust. oriented and that 
>>I might consider taking my business elsewhere.  Both responded in the 
>>same way, offering to assist me disconnect my service.
> 
> 
> Ok, you indicated you might leave BellSouth, what kind of "customer"
> response do you expect at that point?  What can you possibly expect for
> paying a few lousy dollars per month?

What options do I have?  So what do you do when you get lousy service, 
you just keep paying the bill I guess. I guess I'd rather be an asshole.

I just received a refund for over $300 for service done on my truck that 
was not necessary.  I called them on it, did my research and backed it 
up with information from another mechanic.  According to you, I 
shouldn't have done that because it apparently doesn't matter if you get 
lousy service.  You're supposed to be a good little customer and suck it up.

>>5. I recently had a client move to a new location.  BellSouth screwed up 
>>one of their voice lines when setting up the dsl.  At the time, that 
>>line was their connectivity to the internet.  Dial tone gone, no 
>>internet.  The next BellSouth tech told me that who ever tried to setup 
>>the dsl was an idiot (his words).  He'd swapped the trans./rec. and had 
>>left some hardware completely out of the dslam.  He said it would never 
>>have worked.
> 
> 
> That problem isn't unusual, nor unique to you, BellSouth, nor DSL.

Man you are full of the excuses.  You work for BellSouth?  Got a bunch 
of BellSouth stock?  What is it with you.  Even the 2nd Bellsouth Tech. 
said the guy screwed up.

>>Need more?  Incompetence, arrogance, customer dis-service and a local 
>>monopoly that acts like one.
> 
> 
> See ** comment above.
> 
> At some point you wind up getting labeled as a perpetual complainer.  Be
> known for something better than that.

Yeah, and no one likes a know it all either Jim.  You've got an answer 
for everything.  Further, I will suggest that you research the times 
I've posted kudos regarding vendors.  Let's see, Speedfactory, Monarch 
Computers, Bob Toxen, Emperor Linux, SuSE.  Oh, wait, I've been bad 
mouthing Red Hat of late, I must be an asshole.

You can not make an assessment on my personality based on a subset of 
posts to this list.  You're making a mistake.

The problem is Jim, that for some reason you've come to the conclusion 
that you want to give me a hard time.  As far as I'm concerned you can 
save your further posts regarding mine as I'll not respond.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 22 21:32:53 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sat Jan 22 21:32:53 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <31b3224005012218057d09d944@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>
	<008801c4ff2d$35cd6180$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<41F27F55.9020308@3times25.net>
	<1106418776.5844.5.camel@blue> <41F2AF11.2000903@3times25.net>
	<1106426849.6815.19.camel@blue>
	<31b3224005012218057d09d944@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1106447255.17461.6.camel@blue>

On Sat, 2005-01-22 at 21:05 -0500, Pete Hardie wrote:

> It's BellSouth's line - but not the tech's line to make private calls
> on.  

Really?  Ever call your wife/husband/girlfriend/boyfriend from work? 

> If I found out that a tech was using one of the lines into *MY*
> premises 

According to Geoff the tech wasn't inside his premises, the tech was
outside using BellSouth's line (it could have been a non-BellSouth
employee too).

> to make personal calls, obstructing my use of a service I pay
> for, you can bet I'll be hot - 

As long as you have the right, go ahead.  I would bet you don't if you
read the fine print.  

> it's not like he was checking the line by calling his workmate, 

How do you know this?  We only have Geoff's (admittedly a disgruntled
and angry customer) side of the story.  Perhaps Geoff misunderstood the
conversation, or perhaps the woman on the line was the lineman's
workmate.

-Jim P.




From esoteric at 3times25.net  Sat Jan 22 21:34:08 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Sat Jan 22 21:34:08 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <20050122221056.GA25562@antichri.st>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>	<008801c4ff2d$35cd6180$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>	<41F27F55.9020308@3times25.net>
	<1106418776.5844.5.camel@blue>	<41F2AF11.2000903@3times25.net>
	<1106426849.6815.19.camel@blue>
	<20050122221056.GA25562@antichri.st>
Message-ID: <41F30BE4.5060306@3times25.net>

George Carless wrote:
>>**  "dis-service persons" <-- I see you share that very same attitude
>>problem.  Perhaps the resolution of a technical problem is being held
>>hostage by an attitude problem.  Customer service is a two-way street.
>>No CSR likes an a**hole for a customer, just like no customer likes an
>>a**hole for a CSR.  When either delves to that level, the onus is on the
>>other to move on and get over it so that the *real* problem can be
>>solved.
> 
> 
> What's with the apologism?  The CSR is being *payed to do a job*, and 
> frankly I couldn't care less if someone I speak to when I'm unhappy 
> about a service doesn't like my 'attitude'.  The onus is NEVER on the 
> customer; it is always on the company and on its representatives.  

Whoa there George, come join the team of assholes.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From ale at FultonGreen.com  Sat Jan 22 21:36:21 2005
From: ale at FultonGreen.com (Fulton Green)
Date: Sat Jan 22 21:36:21 2005
Subject: [ale] gcc programming
In-Reply-To: <0bcd01c500f2$91557670$bb00a8c0@Ringo>;
	from ringo@margaritasrus.com on Sat, Jan 22, 2005 at 09:23:40PM
	-0500
References: <31b3224005012218057d09d944@mail.gmail.com>
	<0bcd01c500f2$91557670$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
Message-ID: <20050122213203.A4253@greenie.frogspace.net>

On Sat, Jan 22, 2005 at 09:23:40PM -0500, ringo wrote:
> Is this a good forum for asking programming questions or is there a
> better one for gcc?

Well, if it's good enough for a long Comcast static IP discussion ...

> I don't have my C book on me and I need to print debug info to a text
> file. Does anyone have a code snippet ob how to open a file and print to
> it?

Google for the fprintf() syntax.  Use stderr (NOT "stderr") for the first
arg.  If you get compile errors, you're probably not including the right
header files.

Then run the program with the usual arguments but also add the following
argument set (assuming you're in a Korn shell or Bash command-line):
   2>yourTextFile.txt


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Sat Jan 22 21:37:38 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Sat Jan 22 21:37:38 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <20050122221056.GA25562@antichri.st>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>	<008801c4ff2d$35cd6180$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>	<41F27F55.9020308@3times25.net>
	<1106418776.5844.5.camel@blue>	<41F2AF11.2000903@3times25.net>
	<1106426849.6815.19.camel@blue>
	<20050122221056.GA25562@antichri.st>
Message-ID: <41F30CC6.2020401@3times25.net>

George Carless wrote:
>>**  "dis-service persons" <-- I see you share that very same attitude
>>problem.  Perhaps the resolution of a technical problem is being held
>>hostage by an attitude problem.  Customer service is a two-way street.
>>No CSR likes an a**hole for a customer, just like no customer likes an
>>a**hole for a CSR.  When either delves to that level, the onus is on the
>>other to move on and get over it so that the *real* problem can be
>>solved.
> 
> 
> What's with the apologism?  The CSR is being *payed to do a job*, and 
> frankly I couldn't care less if someone I speak to when I'm unhappy 
> about a service doesn't like my 'attitude'.  The onus is NEVER on the 
> customer; it is always on the company and on its representatives.  
> Now, of course it is often helpful and prudent to be polite to 
> people--but, nonetheless, I tire of the attitude that seems so 
> prevalent in the USA that it's okay for customer service people to be 
> rude, flip, unhelpful.  And when they *are* those things, people 
> should vote with their wallets and take their money elsewhere; and, 
> furthermore, there's nothing wrong with telling other people about 
> the poor service that has been experienced, so that those people can 
> avoid having problems of their own.

Well Said George.  Further, when I discuss a problem with a company, I 
am looking for a solution first.  I'm not calling to complain, I'm 
calling to get a solution.  Further, if the person begins to get angry, 
upset or frustrated, I explain to them that it's nothing personal.  They 
are a representative of that company, therefore, I'm talking to the 
company, not to the individual.

> 
>>Ok, you indicated you might leave BellSouth, what kind of "customer"
>>response do you expect at that point?  What can you possibly expect for
>>paying a few lousy dollars per month?
> 
> 
> If people are paying money for a service--and 'a few lousy dollars 
> per month' from thousands of people adds up to a lot of money--they 
> have every right to determine for themselves what level of service 
> they feel they have a right to expect, and I find it frankly rather 
> rude, and quite baffling, that you should be arguing that their 
> complaints are misplaced because, what, they're only paying a 
> relatively small amount of money?  Now, it is fair to say that 
> the consumer *can* sometimes have unrealistic expectations of what he 
> or she is getting, failing to read the fine print and the terms of 
> service etcetera.  But this should not be seen as an excuse for 
> companies to treat the customer rudely; and if they do, they should 
> not be surprised if the customer leaves them.  I think businesses in 
> America could and should do a lot more in the way of training their 
> customer representatives; I suspect that people *do* care about good 
> service, and I think that bad attitudes cost companies money.

Again, I agree.

>>>5. I recently had a client move to a new location.  BellSouth screwed up 
>>>one of their voice lines when setting up the dsl.  At the time, that 
>>>line was their connectivity to the internet.  Dial tone gone, no 
>>>internet.  The next BellSouth tech told me that who ever tried to setup 
>>>the dsl was an idiot (his words).  He'd swapped the trans./rec. and had 
>>>left some hardware completely out of the dslam.  He said it would never 
>>>have worked.
>>
>>That problem isn't unusual, nor unique to you, BellSouth, nor DSL.
> 
> 
> And so shouldn't be addressed?
> 
> 
>>At some point you wind up getting labeled as a perpetual complainer.  Be
>>known for something better than that.
> 
> 
> As an apologist for poor service?  As a fool who will accept 
> ill-treatment because "that's just how it is"?  Monopolies are a 
> problem because they don't give people much of a choice; but we 
> should still be willing to stand up and complain when problems do 
> occur--and, sadly, I think that many of these companies are poorly 
> run, provide a poor service, and get away with it because there is no 
> viable alternative.

Again well said.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Sat Jan 22 21:51:18 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Sat Jan 22 21:51:18 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <1106434284.9921.14.camel@blue>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>	<008801c4ff2d$35cd6180$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>	<41F27F55.9020308@3times25.net>	<1106418776.5844.5.camel@blue>
	<41F2AF11.2000903@3times25.net>	<1106426849.6815.19.camel@blue>
	<20050122221056.GA25562@antichri.st>
	<1106434284.9921.14.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <41F3101F.2030307@3times25.net>

Jim Popovitch wrote:
> On Sat, 2005-01-22 at 17:10 -0500, George Carless wrote:
> 
> 
>>What's with the apologism?  
> 
> 
> What's with the incorrect labeling?  I have BellSouth/Comcast/AT&T
> problems just like the next guy.  I'm not apologizing for those
> companies, I'm prescribing a means to productively work with them to get
> what you wanted in the first place.

I did not see any suggestions to remedy the issues.  Just statements 
saying I was a cronic complainer.

>>The CSR is being *payed to do a job*, and 
>>frankly I couldn't care less if someone I speak to when I'm unhappy 
>>about a service doesn't like my 'attitude'.  
> 
> But I bet the CSR does.  And therefore the CSR (a low paying postion) is
> likely to reply in kind, thus adding to the fire *you*, not them, are
> trying to get solved.

The problem is, I don't call to complain and I'm not hostile.  I call to 
get resolution.  Even when I suggest I should take my business 
elsewhere, I do so with a calm voice, because I'm hoping to get a 
solution.  The only way I can deal with a company the size of Bellsouth 
is through my wallet and sharing my experiences.

> 
>>The onus is NEVER on the customer; 
> 
> It is when the problem is yours and you want to get is solved rather
> than throwing more monkey-wrenches into the issue.  There are two ways
> to work towards getting something resolved:  Productively and
> Counter-Productively.  The first requires restraint, maturity, and
> general level-headedness.  The later takes longer, yields poorer results
> and usually (as evidenced here over and over) leaves people bitter.

Right, and you're made a huge error in assuming that I jump directly to 
counter productively, and I'm here to tell you, you can't back it up and 
you are just plain wrong.

> 
>>it is always on the company and on its representatives.
> 
> 
> At some point the company's "representatives" may care less about *your*
> problem then you do.

Then it's time they found a new job.  This is the way a monopoly 
operates.  I don't get that kind of attitude from all vendors.
Customer service people are trained to work with upset customers.  It is 
their part of their jobs.

>>Now, of course it is often helpful and prudent to be polite to 
>>people--but, nonetheless, I tire of the attitude that seems so 
>>prevalent in the USA that it's okay for customer service people to be 
>>rude, flip, unhelpful.  
> 
> 
> I haven't expressed the view that impolite behavior is acceptable,
> however (as I previously pointed out) it is a two way street.

But, you've obviously made the assumption that I start off jumping down 
their throat, and you are dead wrong.

>>And when they *are* those things, people 
>>should vote with their wallets and take their money elsewhere; 
> 
> 
> People with that attitude, coupled with tendencies towards impolite
> behavior, will spend their lifetime "taking their money elsewhere".
> Therefore the real resolution is in correcting expectations and
> attitudes.  The quote "You get what you pay for" doesn't have a better
> fit than when dealing with Telcos.  Seriously, can you expect the world
> for $50 per month?   If not, is complaining going to get you the world
> sooner?

If you continue to based you expectations on the price of the service, 
then you'll always get lousy service.  I'm not asking BellSouth to give 
me a T3 for the price of dial up service.  I'm asking for them to 
correct problems in a timely fashion, and provide the service I'm promised.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 22 21:52:42 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sat Jan 22 21:52:42 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <41F30B26.2090209@3times25.net>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>
	<008801c4ff2d$35cd6180$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>	<41F27F55.9020308@3times25.net>
	<1106418776.5844.5.camel@blue> <41F2AF11.2000903@3times25.net>
	<1106426849.6815.19.camel@blue>  <41F30B26.2090209@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <1106448435.17461.20.camel@blue>

On Sat, 2005-01-22 at 21:25 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:

> You can not make an assessment on my personality based on a subset of 
> posts to this list.  You're making a mistake.

Yet you are a master of assessing a BellSouth technician(s) who is
outside of your premise on a pole making a phone call?  Let's be
realistic here, the chances of you knowing 100% of the story is pretty
limited given the size of BellSouth.  No one is disputing that you
haven't been super-happy, all I'm saying is that your expectations are
too high for the amount of money you are paying.

> The problem is Jim, that for some reason you've come to the conclusion 
> that you want to give me a hard time.  

No, I just want to provide a balance as my experiences have never been
as bleak as you have painted yours.

-Jim P.





From unixdude at gmail.com  Sat Jan 22 21:54:10 2005
From: unixdude at gmail.com (Jim Patterson)
Date: Sat Jan 22 21:54:10 2005
Subject: [ale] gcc programming
In-Reply-To: <0bcd01c500f2$91557670$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
References: <31b3224005012218057d09d944@mail.gmail.com>
	<0bcd01c500f2$91557670$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
Message-ID: <d8b213cb0501221849661d25e6@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 21:23:40 -0500, ringo <ringo at margaritasrus.com> wrote:

> I don't have my C book on me and I need to print debug info to a text
> file. Does anyone have a code snippet ob how to open a file and print to
> it?

Try this:

#include <stdio.h>
int
main()
{
    FILE* fp = NULL;
    fp = fopen("/tmp/debug.log", "a+");
    fprintf(fp, "%s\n", "Your message here");
    fclose(fp);
}

Jim Patterson.


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Sat Jan 22 21:58:45 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Sat Jan 22 21:58:45 2005
Subject: [ale] gcc programming
In-Reply-To: <0bcd01c500f2$91557670$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
References: <0bcd01c500f2$91557670$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
Message-ID: <41F31179.6040208@3times25.net>

ringo wrote:
> Is this a good forum for asking programming questions or is there a
> better one for gcc?
> I don't have my C book on me and I need to print debug info to a text
> file. Does anyone have a code snippet ob how to open a file and print to
> it?

This is probably as good a place as any I suspect.

You'll likely want to write the debug info to standard error and capture.

Here's how I do it in C so that I can track where the data was spit out:

(void)fprintf(stderr, "%s %d: %s\n", __FILE__, __LINE__, debugdata);

Then when you run your program, do this:

program 2> program.err

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Sat Jan 22 22:03:15 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Sat Jan 22 22:03:15 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <1106447255.17461.6.camel@blue>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>	<008801c4ff2d$35cd6180$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>	<41F27F55.9020308@3times25.net>	<1106418776.5844.5.camel@blue>
	<41F2AF11.2000903@3times25.net>	<1106426849.6815.19.camel@blue>	<31b3224005012218057d09d944@mail.gmail.com>
	<1106447255.17461.6.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <41F312ED.7020404@3times25.net>

Jim Popovitch wrote:
> On Sat, 2005-01-22 at 21:05 -0500, Pete Hardie wrote:
> 
> 
>>It's BellSouth's line - but not the tech's line to make private calls
>>on.  
> 
> 
> Really?  Ever call your wife/husband/girlfriend/boyfriend from work?

I did it all the time when I worked for AT&T, but it was permitted. It's 
a totally different issue.  The line I call my wife from is not leased 
to a customer.

> 
>>If I found out that a tech was using one of the lines into *MY*
>>premises 
> 
> 
> According to Geoff the tech wasn't inside his premises, the tech was
> outside using BellSouth's line (it could have been a non-BellSouth
> employee too).

Well, it was a BellSouth tech, so don't try to cloud the issue.  And the 
fact that he interrupted my service for his personal use, has nothing to 
do with whether he was inside my house, on the pole, or at the central 
office.  Dude, I worked for AT&T when BellSouth was part of them, I know 
what is acceptable and this is not.

>>to make personal calls, obstructing my use of a service I pay
>>for, you can bet I'll be hot - 
> 
> 
> As long as you have the right, go ahead.  I would bet you don't if you
> read the fine print.

Again try to cloud the issue with information you don't even have.  I 
assure you, it's not an acceptable thing for them to do.

>>it's not like he was checking the line by calling his workmate, 
> 
> 
> How do you know this?  We only have Geoff's (admittedly a disgruntled
> and angry customer) side of the story.  Perhaps Geoff misunderstood the
> conversation, or perhaps the woman on the line was the lineman's
> workmate.

Again, you attempt to cloud the issue by calling me a liar.  At the 
time, I was not a disgruntled customer.  I was working from home and it 
was my line used for business.  Further, it doesn't really matter who he 
was talking to, the language he used was totally inappropriate to be 
using it on a customer's line.

But, that doesn't matter. He was dead wrong.  The fact that it 
apparently is a common practice speaks to BellSouth's integrity.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Sat Jan 22 22:07:00 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Sat Jan 22 22:07:00 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <1106448435.17461.20.camel@blue>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>	<008801c4ff2d$35cd6180$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>	<41F27F55.9020308@3times25.net>	<1106418776.5844.5.camel@blue>
	<41F2AF11.2000903@3times25.net>	<1106426849.6815.19.camel@blue>
	<41F30B26.2090209@3times25.net> <1106448435.17461.20.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <41F313D2.6040006@3times25.net>

Jim Popovitch wrote:
> On Sat, 2005-01-22 at 21:25 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> 
> 
>>You can not make an assessment on my personality based on a subset of 
>>posts to this list.  You're making a mistake.
> 
> 
> Yet you are a master of assessing a BellSouth technician(s) who is
> outside of your premise on a pole making a phone call?  Let's be
> realistic here, the chances of you knowing 100% of the story is pretty
> limited given the size of BellSouth.  No one is disputing that you
> haven't been super-happy, all I'm saying is that your expectations are
> too high for the amount of money you are paying.

You're wrong.

>>The problem is Jim, that for some reason you've come to the conclusion 
>>that you want to give me a hard time.  
> 
> 
> No, I just want to provide a balance as my experiences have never been
> as bleak as you have painted yours.

So you've been lucky?  Or maybe you haven't worked from a home office 
for 9 years and therefore didn't have to deal with these issues on this 
basis.

So who are you to discount my experiences?  By all means, post all your 
glowing praise of BellSouth, but you are no way in the position to 
discount my experiences because you weren't there.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From exodous at m-net.arbornet.org  Sat Jan 22 22:28:41 2005
From: exodous at m-net.arbornet.org (exo)
Date: Sat Jan 22 22:28:41 2005
Subject: [ale] Webhosting Questions
Message-ID: <20050122222321.O46441-100000@m-net.arbornet.org>

Hi,

I am bit confused here.  I saw some posts here about domain name
registering, regarding godaddy.com.  Well I got a domain from them.  But
now the question comes for webhosting.  Domains is one thing, hosting is
another issue.

Checking google for reviews on godaddy.com webhosting plans - I see lots
of complaints.  But on their website, I am amazed at 100GB bandwidth and 1
or 2 gigs of space..and its on linux also :)  But should I go for them?

What is a good recommened webhosting?  I do need linux support (ssh,
sftp), shell access, Lots of bandwidth (100GB looks great) and minimum of
1gig of space.  The reason is that I have to put some big files to be
downloaded few times a month..so bandwidth is issue.  50GB is fine and
all..but 100GB or higher is sweet...and then most importantly the price is
a factor.  With godaddy I get it under 10 bucks per month.  But
reliability is also there?  Please suggest..

I looked at Canaca <-- 200GB bandwidth and 10gigs webspace for 4
bucks/month..but reviews for this are horrible - i mean really bad

Dreamhost? I could not find that much reviews on this?

There is Aplus.net and lunarpages.  But I get a lot less from this
compared to the previous ones.

So Ale'rs would you be kind to suggest me good decent webhosting
service...or Should I go with godaddy? or others on ....

Thanks once again :)


From jkf at wolfnet.org  Sat Jan 22 22:40:30 2005
From: jkf at wolfnet.org (Jason Fritcher)
Date: Sat Jan 22 22:40:30 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <41F2AF11.2000903@3times25.net>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>	<008801c4ff2d$35cd6180$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>	<41F27F55.9020308@3times25.net>	<1106418776.5844.5.camel@blue>
	<41F2AF11.2000903@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <41F31B75.80506@wolfnet.org>

Geoffrey wrote:
> 2. BellSouth constantly get's in the way of other providers, whether
> it's local service or dsl.  This is not competitive, it is
> anti-competitive.  They are the reason you can't get dsl without a
> dialtone via Speedfactory.

I have become very jaded against the ILECs. 6-7 years ago, I worked at a
small regional ISP in California, and every time one of our SBC T1's went
down, it was almost literally a fight to get them to do anything about it.
They would routinely quote 2-3 day waits for a tech to roll out and look at
the line. For the T1 contracts we had with them, that was completely
unacceptable. They also would frequently try to just end calls with things
like, "We can loop our side of the NIU, so its your problem." Its crap like
that that makes my hate any kind of government granted monopoly... telco,
cable or otherwise.

--
Jason Fritcher
jkf at wolfnet.org
-------------- next part --------------
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From ale at FultonGreen.com  Sat Jan 22 22:51:00 2005
From: ale at FultonGreen.com (Fulton Green)
Date: Sat Jan 22 22:51:00 2005
Subject: [ale] gcc programming
In-Reply-To: <41F31179.6040208@3times25.net>;
	from esoteric@3times25.net on Sat, Jan 22, 2005 at 09:52:41PM
	-0500
References: <0bcd01c500f2$91557670$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
	<41F31179.6040208@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <20050122224637.A26058@greenie.frogspace.net>

On Sat, Jan 22, 2005 at 09:52:41PM -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> You'll likely want to write the debug info to standard error and capture.
> 
> Here's how I do it in C so that I can track where the data was spit out:
> 
> (void)fprintf(stderr, "%s %d: %s\n", __FILE__, __LINE__, debugdata);
> 
> Then when you run your program, do this:
> 
> program 2> program.err

Which is basically what I said in my post earlier tonight, except I was
too lazy to copy 'n' paste the printf() example from Google.

Geoffrey ... did you not receive my earlier post?


From ale at jeffx.com  Sat Jan 22 23:07:03 2005
From: ale at jeffx.com (Jeff Tillotson)
Date: Sat Jan 22 23:07:03 2005
Subject: [ale] Webhosting Questions
In-Reply-To: <20050122222321.O46441-100000@m-net.arbornet.org>
References: <20050122222321.O46441-100000@m-net.arbornet.org>
Message-ID: <A8B4080E-6CF3-11D9-AD4A-000A95AA8FAE@jeffx.com>

On Jan 22, 2005, at 10:31 PM, exo wrote:
> So Ale'rs would you be kind to suggest me good decent webhosting
> service...or Should I go with godaddy? or others on ....
>

I used to use a company called Nexcess (http://www.nexcess.net).  They 
had great customer service and offered shell access.  I don't remember 
the bandwidth limitations.  I have since switched to a box with Server 
Beach (http://www.serverbeach.com).  I get tons of bandwidth and get to 
do pretty much anything to the box I want.  The price is a bit high 
(~$100).

Regards,
J


From pmazer at gmail.com  Sat Jan 22 23:48:37 2005
From: pmazer at gmail.com (Parker McGee)
Date: Sat Jan 22 23:48:37 2005
Subject: [ale] Webhosting Questions
In-Reply-To: <20050122222321.O46441-100000@m-net.arbornet.org>
References: <20050122222321.O46441-100000@m-net.arbornet.org>
Message-ID: <41dc54540501222044aa8648@mail.gmail.com>

I use Dreamhost <http://www.dreamhost.com/> and I have no complaints. 
The $10 a month plan sounds like exactly what you want (and more)


On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 22:31:17 -0500 (EST), exo
<exodous at m-net.arbornet.org> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am bit confused here.  I saw some posts here about domain name
> registering, regarding godaddy.com.  Well I got a domain from them.  But
> now the question comes for webhosting.  Domains is one thing, hosting is
> another issue.
> 
> Checking google for reviews on godaddy.com webhosting plans - I see lots
> of complaints.  But on their website, I am amazed at 100GB bandwidth and 1
> or 2 gigs of space..and its on linux also :)  But should I go for them?
> 
> What is a good recommened webhosting?  I do need linux support (ssh,
> sftp), shell access, Lots of bandwidth (100GB looks great) and minimum of
> 1gig of space.  The reason is that I have to put some big files to be
> downloaded few times a month..so bandwidth is issue.  50GB is fine and
> all..but 100GB or higher is sweet...and then most importantly the price is
> a factor.  With godaddy I get it under 10 bucks per month.  But
> reliability is also there?  Please suggest..
> 
> I looked at Canaca <-- 200GB bandwidth and 10gigs webspace for 4
> bucks/month..but reviews for this are horrible - i mean really bad
> 
> Dreamhost? I could not find that much reviews on this?
> 
> There is Aplus.net and lunarpages.  But I get a lot less from this
> compared to the previous ones.
> 
> So Ale'rs would you be kind to suggest me good decent webhosting
> service...or Should I go with godaddy? or others on ....
> 
> Thanks once again :)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 


-- 
Parker McGee


From pmazer at gmail.com  Sat Jan 22 23:53:04 2005
From: pmazer at gmail.com (Parker McGee)
Date: Sat Jan 22 23:53:04 2005
Subject: [ale] Webhosting Questions
In-Reply-To: <20050122222321.O46441-100000@m-net.arbornet.org>
References: <20050122222321.O46441-100000@m-net.arbornet.org>
Message-ID: <41dc54540501222048997c480@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not sure if my first message went through, so I'll just send again.

I personally use Dreamhost's $10/month plan, and I have no complaints
about it.  It sounds like exactly what you want:
http://www.dreamhost.com/

I personally have heard anything negative about their service, and
their plan is downright amazing (especially with the free upgrades
going on right now)


On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 22:31:17 -0500 (EST), exo
<exodous at m-net.arbornet.org> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am bit confused here.  I saw some posts here about domain name
> registering, regarding godaddy.com.  Well I got a domain from them.  But
> now the question comes for webhosting.  Domains is one thing, hosting is
> another issue.
> 
> Checking google for reviews on godaddy.com webhosting plans - I see lots
> of complaints.  But on their website, I am amazed at 100GB bandwidth and 1
> or 2 gigs of space..and its on linux also :)  But should I go for them?
> 
> What is a good recommened webhosting?  I do need linux support (ssh,
> sftp), shell access, Lots of bandwidth (100GB looks great) and minimum of
> 1gig of space.  The reason is that I have to put some big files to be
> downloaded few times a month..so bandwidth is issue.  50GB is fine and
> all..but 100GB or higher is sweet...and then most importantly the price is
> a factor.  With godaddy I get it under 10 bucks per month.  But
> reliability is also there?  Please suggest..
> 
> I looked at Canaca <-- 200GB bandwidth and 10gigs webspace for 4
> bucks/month..but reviews for this are horrible - i mean really bad
> 
> Dreamhost? I could not find that much reviews on this?
> 
> There is Aplus.net and lunarpages.  But I get a lot less from this
> compared to the previous ones.
> 
> So Ale'rs would you be kind to suggest me good decent webhosting
> service...or Should I go with godaddy? or others on ....
> 
> Thanks once again :)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 


-- 
Parker McGee


From pmazer at gmail.com  Sat Jan 22 23:54:10 2005
From: pmazer at gmail.com (Parker McGee)
Date: Sat Jan 22 23:54:10 2005
Subject: [ale] Webhosting Questions
In-Reply-To: <41dc54540501222048997c480@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20050122222321.O46441-100000@m-net.arbornet.org>
	<41dc54540501222048997c480@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41dc54540501222049237b8574@mail.gmail.com>

Errr, sorry for replying to my own message, but that last sentence
should read: "I personally HAVEN'T heard anything negative..."


On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 23:48:40 -0500, Parker McGee <pmazer at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm not sure if my first message went through, so I'll just send again.
> 
> I personally use Dreamhost's $10/month plan, and I have no complaints
> about it.  It sounds like exactly what you want:
> http://www.dreamhost.com/
> 
> I personally have heard anything negative about their service, and
> their plan is downright amazing (especially with the free upgrades
> going on right now)
> 
> 
> On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 22:31:17 -0500 (EST), exo
> <exodous at m-net.arbornet.org> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am bit confused here.  I saw some posts here about domain name
> > registering, regarding godaddy.com.  Well I got a domain from them.  But
> > now the question comes for webhosting.  Domains is one thing, hosting is
> > another issue.
> >
> > Checking google for reviews on godaddy.com webhosting plans - I see lots
> > of complaints.  But on their website, I am amazed at 100GB bandwidth and 1
> > or 2 gigs of space..and its on linux also :)  But should I go for them?
> >
> > What is a good recommened webhosting?  I do need linux support (ssh,
> > sftp), shell access, Lots of bandwidth (100GB looks great) and minimum of
> > 1gig of space.  The reason is that I have to put some big files to be
> > downloaded few times a month..so bandwidth is issue.  50GB is fine and
> > all..but 100GB or higher is sweet...and then most importantly the price is
> > a factor.  With godaddy I get it under 10 bucks per month.  But
> > reliability is also there?  Please suggest..
> >
> > I looked at Canaca <-- 200GB bandwidth and 10gigs webspace for 4
> > bucks/month..but reviews for this are horrible - i mean really bad
> >
> > Dreamhost? I could not find that much reviews on this?
> >
> > There is Aplus.net and lunarpages.  But I get a lot less from this
> > compared to the previous ones.
> >
> > So Ale'rs would you be kind to suggest me good decent webhosting
> > service...or Should I go with godaddy? or others on ....
> >
> > Thanks once again :)
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> >
> 
> 
> --
> Parker McGee
> 


-- 
Parker McGee


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 23 01:14:49 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sun Jan 23 01:14:49 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <41F313D2.6040006@3times25.net>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>
	<008801c4ff2d$35cd6180$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>	<41F27F55.9020308@3times25.net>
	<1106418776.5844.5.camel@blue> <41F2AF11.2000903@3times25.net>
	<1106426849.6815.19.camel@blue> <41F30B26.2090209@3times25.net>
	<1106448435.17461.20.camel@blue>  <41F313D2.6040006@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <1106460512.18288.10.camel@blue>

On Sat, 2005-01-22 at 22:02 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> So who are you to discount my experiences?  

I am no one to discount your experiences, nor have I.  I've only stated
that my experiences are different, and I have drawn the line of
distinction at consumer expectations and consumer attitudes towards
provider.

> By all means, post all your glowing praise of BellSouth, 

I have posted both good and bad about BellSouth on ALE.  As I said
previously, I have had bad experiences with a lot of companies.  The
difference is in the attitude and actions I have taken.

> but you are no way in the position to discount my experiences 
> because you weren't there.

Nor do I discount your experiences.  I only conclude that my experiences
were better because I consistently strive to be level-headed, realistic,
and optimistic about the resolution(s) to the problems I face.  I think
you have previously over-stated examples to the contrary.  Sadly I think
this has left you jaded, ill-experienced, and lacking value for the
money you have spent.  I on the other hand feel that my money, with
BellSouth, has been well spent.

-Jim P.




From kafka at antichri.st  Sun Jan 23 07:39:31 2005
From: kafka at antichri.st (George Carless)
Date: Sun Jan 23 07:39:31 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <1106448435.17461.20.camel@blue>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>
	<008801c4ff2d$35cd6180$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<41F27F55.9020308@3times25.net> <1106418776.5844.5.camel@blue>
	<41F2AF11.2000903@3times25.net> <1106426849.6815.19.camel@blue>
	<41F30B26.2090209@3times25.net> <1106448435.17461.20.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <20050123123408.GG25562@antichri.st>

> > The problem is Jim, that for some reason you've come to the conclusion 
> > that you want to give me a hard time.  
> 
> No, I just want to provide a balance as my experiences have never been
> as bleak as you have painted yours.

In which case, I think the appropriate action would be to post your 
*positive* experiences, rather than to launch on the ad hominem.

--George


From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Sun Jan 23 08:02:32 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Sun Jan 23 08:02:32 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <20050123123408.GG25562@antichri.st>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>
	<008801c4ff2d$35cd6180$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<41F27F55.9020308@3times25.net>
	<1106418776.5844.5.camel@blue> <41F2AF11.2000903@3times25.net>
	<1106426849.6815.19.camel@blue> <41F30B26.2090209@3times25.net>
	<1106448435.17461.20.camel@blue> <20050123123408.GG25562@antichri.st>
Message-ID: <1106485072.14668.46.camel@linux.linxdev.com>

Why is anyone on this list mentioning BellSouth when there is
Speedfactory and Speakeasy that provide aweseom service and features and
fast technicians?  

Are we so GD cheap on this list that we'll take crap from a cheaper
provider when we can pay extra and get the good stuff?  

On Sun, 2005-01-23 at 07:34, George Carless wrote:
> > > The problem is Jim, that for some reason you've come to the conclusion 
> > > that you want to give me a hard time.  
> > 
> > No, I just want to provide a balance as my experiences have never been
> > as bleak as you have painted yours.
> 
> In which case, I think the appropriate action would be to post your 
> *positive* experiences, rather than to launch on the ad hominem.
> 
> --George
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 23 08:27:15 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sun Jan 23 08:27:15 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <20050123123408.GG25562@antichri.st>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>
	<008801c4ff2d$35cd6180$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<41F27F55.9020308@3times25.net>
	<1106418776.5844.5.camel@blue> <41F2AF11.2000903@3times25.net>
	<1106426849.6815.19.camel@blue> <41F30B26.2090209@3times25.net>
	<1106448435.17461.20.camel@blue> <20050123123408.GG25562@antichri.st>
Message-ID: <1106486514.19205.11.camel@blue>

On Sun, 2005-01-23 at 07:34 -0500, George Carless wrote:
> > > The problem is Jim, that for some reason you've come to the conclusion 
> > > that you want to give me a hard time.  
> > 
> > No, I just want to provide a balance as my experiences have never been
> > as bleak as you have painted yours.
> 
> In which case, I think the appropriate action would be to post your 
> *positive* experiences, rather than to launch on the ad hominem.

George, your characterization or me is just plain wrong.  Here's proof:

I did espouse *positive* experiences, see this thread:
http://www.ale.org/archive/ale/ale-2005-01/msg00288.html

Guess who was the first person to respond with *negative* remarks.

Yesterday Ryan posted something *positive* about BellSouth in this
thread:
http://www.ale.org/archive/ale/ale-2005-01/msg00825.html

Guess who was the first person to respond with *negative* remarks.

Thus prompting me to ask why:
http://www.ale.org/archive/ale/ale-2005-01/msg00863.html


-Jim P.




From ppolstra at gmail.com  Sun Jan 23 09:45:03 2005
From: ppolstra at gmail.com (Philip Polstra)
Date: Sun Jan 23 09:45:03 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <1106485072.14668.46.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>
	<008801c4ff2d$35cd6180$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<41F27F55.9020308@3times25.net> <1106418776.5844.5.camel@blue>
	<41F2AF11.2000903@3times25.net> <1106426849.6815.19.camel@blue>
	<41F30B26.2090209@3times25.net> <1106448435.17461.20.camel@blue>
	<20050123123408.GG25562@antichri.st>
	<1106485072.14668.46.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
Message-ID: <1beea75e05012306391f4aa4b0@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 07:57:52 -0500, Christopher Fowler
<cfowler at outpostsentinel.com> wrote:
> 
> Are we so GD cheap on this list that we'll take crap from a cheaper
> provider when we can pay extra and get the good stuff?
> 
I think that people are just forced to use BS, even with other DSL
providers.  I won't recount all of my negative BS stories, because I
don't have that much time.


From rb211 at tds.net  Sun Jan 23 10:14:38 2005
From: rb211 at tds.net (William Bagwell)
Date: Sun Jan 23 10:14:38 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <41F3101F.2030307@3times25.net>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev> <1106434284.9921.14.camel@blue>
	<41F3101F.2030307@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <200501231011.58916.rb211@tds.net>

On Saturday 22 January 2005 09:46 pm, Geoffrey wrote:

> The only way I can deal with a company the size of Bellsouth
> is through my wallet and sharing my experiences.

Have not been with a Bell in 17 years, will share two.

Just after the breakup of AT&T, Bellsouth apparently started pouring over 
old records searching for *anything* they could send a bill for. My parents 
received a bill for rental of a hearing impaired device my mother had 
tested in the early *60s*! 

Huge bill, many hundreds of dollars! We politely told them to stick it. 
Explained that the device had not worked in the first place, had not been 
seen or used in almost twenty years. No idea if it had been returned, if 
return had been requested. Or simply thrown away....

Though Bellsouth dropped the issue for my parents, how many others received 
similar bills and simply paid them?

Just a few months ago, someone on the internal TDS newsgroup was bemoaning 
the fact he was moving soon and would have to go back to a Bell. Moving with 
in the state of *Wisconsin*. I suggested Speakeasy:)

Do we see a pattern here?
-- 
William


From dcorbin at machturtle.com  Sun Jan 23 10:23:19 2005
From: dcorbin at machturtle.com (David Corbin)
Date: Sun Jan 23 10:23:19 2005
Subject: [ale] Load...
Message-ID: <200501231018.03574.dcorbin@machturtle.com>

I have system were top is giving this...

top - 10:14:05 up 13 days, 14:01,  1 user,  load average: 3.00, 3.00, 3.00
Tasks:  56 total,   1 running,  55 sleeping,   0 stopped,   0 zombie
Cpu(s):   0.3% user,   0.0% system,   0.0% nice,  99.7% idle

Notice how the load average is exactly 3.00 for all 1, 5 and 15 minutes.  Yet, 
the system is substantially idle.  This is pretty odd to begin with, but 
given the number of automated process on this system, the eveness is quite 
disturbing.  

The system does seem to be a bit slugish when used interactively.
"ps ax" yields nothing that looks suspicious to me, but I'm not sure that's 
worth much.

Ideas?

David


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 23 10:57:50 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sun Jan 23 10:57:50 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <200501231011.58916.rb211@tds.net>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev> <1106434284.9921.14.camel@blue>
	<41F3101F.2030307@3times25.net>  <200501231011.58916.rb211@tds.net>
Message-ID: <1106495542.23449.18.camel@blue>

On Sun, 2005-01-23 at 10:11 -0500, William Bagwell wrote:
> Do we see a pattern here?

Here's the way I see it:  (tread/thread lightly)

When someone uses SpeedFactory/SpeakEasy they are, in most cases,
essentially dealing with a middle man who is using the exact same
BellSouth cooper as BellSouth would use.  Since most people on this list
run their own mailserver, etc. one needs to inquire as to what the real
advantages are of using a middle man instead of dealing direct with the
provider.

Most people cite higher Tech Support approval with the middle man DSL
providers.  However, if the middle man doesn't own the cooper the only
recourse is for the middle man to go back to the provider (BellSouth)
for resolution.  So... looking at this issue one can presume one of two
things:

  - BellSouth is essentially outsourcing Tech Support to intelligent
    middlemen who intermediate between the customer and BellSouth
    (probably very politely too)

  - Some people are outsourcing their Tech Support problem(s) to a
    an intelligent middleman who argues with BellSouth on their 
    behalf (again, probably very politely)

So, The conclusion I draw is this: I can avoid the middle man if I am
intelligent enough to not require their mail/dns services.  All I have
to do is temper my frustrations when dealing with BellSouth.  

-Jim P.





From robertheaven at earthlink.net  Sun Jan 23 11:09:47 2005
From: robertheaven at earthlink.net (Robert Heaven)
Date: Sun Jan 23 11:09:47 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <1106495542.23449.18.camel@blue>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev> <1106434284.9921.14.camel@blue>
	<41F3101F.2030307@3times25.net>  <200501231011.58916.rb211@tds.net>
	<1106495542.23449.18.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <1106496321.3531.6.camel@fedora.heaven.net>

There is one specific advantage to using the "middle man" for tech
support; his direct contact at BellSouth is at a much higher level than
you, the individual, can get to. No matter how many times you call
BellSouth and ask for an escalation, you'll never get as high up the
food chain as the Middle Man can get.


On Sun, 2005-01-23 at 10:52, Jim Popovitch wrote:

> On Sun, 2005-01-23 at 10:11 -0500, William Bagwell wrote:
> > Do we see a pattern here?
> 
> Here's the way I see it:  (tread/thread lightly)
> 
> When someone uses SpeedFactory/SpeakEasy they are, in most cases,
> essentially dealing with a middle man who is using the exact same
> BellSouth cooper as BellSouth would use.  Since most people on this list
> run their own mailserver, etc. one needs to inquire as to what the real
> advantages are of using a middle man instead of dealing direct with the
> provider.
> 
> Most people cite higher Tech Support approval with the middle man DSL
> providers.  However, if the middle man doesn't own the cooper the only
> recourse is for the middle man to go back to the provider (BellSouth)
> for resolution.  So... looking at this issue one can presume one of two
> things:
> 
>   - BellSouth is essentially outsourcing Tech Support to intelligent
>     middlemen who intermediate between the customer and BellSouth
>     (probably very politely too)
> 
>   - Some people are outsourcing their Tech Support problem(s) to a
>     an intelligent middleman who argues with BellSouth on their 
>     behalf (again, probably very politely)
> 
> So, The conclusion I draw is this: I can avoid the middle man if I am
> intelligent enough to not require their mail/dns services.  All I have
> to do is temper my frustrations when dealing with BellSouth.  
> 
> -Jim P.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
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From hbbs at comcast.net  Sun Jan 23 11:26:44 2005
From: hbbs at comcast.net (Jeff Hubbs)
Date: Sun Jan 23 11:26:44 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <1106485072.14668.46.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>
	<008801c4ff2d$35cd6180$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<41F27F55.9020308@3times25.net>
	<1106418776.5844.5.camel@blue> <41F2AF11.2000903@3times25.net>
	<1106426849.6815.19.camel@blue> <41F30B26.2090209@3times25.net>
	<1106448435.17461.20.camel@blue> <20050123123408.GG25562@antichri.st>
	<1106485072.14668.46.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
Message-ID: <1106497341.4540.1130.camel@juanita>

Chris, I think that a lot of the "heat" surrounding this situation is
that the way things are set up, if you get Speedfactory, Speakeasy, or
any other DSL provider than BS, you STILL have to deal with BS (I mean
that in more than one way) even if you don't get a BS bill or talk to BS
people when you call.  The fundamental problem is that BS controls the
last mile and your copper AND they themselves also provide BS DSL
service.  This means that ALL OTHER DSL providers can only provide
service WITH THE COOPERATION OF A DIRECT COMPETITOR.  The conflict of
interest there isn't hard to see.  The moment you have a DSL service
problem that only BS can remedy, you're at BS' mercy and what they have
to give isn't merciful.  On top of all this, technician screw-ups seem
to be endemic, perhaps reflective of how little money BS wants to spend
on techs and their training and QC.  I'm just glad that when this
happened to me and BS dug in their heels to both me and my DSL provider,
I *had* an out in that I could jump to another monopolist (Comcast).  

All this being said, if Comcast *does* offer business service, I'm
liable to go with them instead of S*e*a*y no matter how good S*e*a*y is
as a provider.

Incidentally, when my DSL provider in Sandy Springs threw up their hands
and said that my outage isn't their fault, I told them that I held them
responsible for maintaining their relationship with BS.

Jeff

On Sun, 2005-01-23 at 07:57, Christopher Fowler wrote:
> Why is anyone on this list mentioning BellSouth when there is
> Speedfactory and Speakeasy that provide aweseom service and features and
> fast technicians?  
> 
> Are we so GD cheap on this list that we'll take crap from a cheaper
> provider when we can pay extra and get the good stuff?  
> 
> On Sun, 2005-01-23 at 07:34, George Carless wrote:
> > > > The problem is Jim, that for some reason you've come to the conclusion 
> > > > that you want to give me a hard time.  
> > > 
> > > No, I just want to provide a balance as my experiences have never been
> > > as bleak as you have painted yours.
> > 
> > In which case, I think the appropriate action would be to post your 
> > *positive* experiences, rather than to launch on the ad hominem.
> > 
> > --George
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 23 11:28:22 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sun Jan 23 11:28:22 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <1106496321.3531.6.camel@fedora.heaven.net>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev> <1106434284.9921.14.camel@blue>
	<41F3101F.2030307@3times25.net>  <200501231011.58916.rb211@tds.net>
	<1106495542.23449.18.camel@blue>
	<1106496321.3531.6.camel@fedora.heaven.net>
Message-ID: <1106497311.23449.31.camel@blue>

On Sun, 2005-01-23 at 11:05 -0500, Robert Heaven wrote:
> There is one specific advantage to using the "middle man" for tech
> support; his direct contact at BellSouth is at a much higher level
> than you, the individual, can get to. No matter how many times you
> call BellSouth and ask for an escalation, you'll never get as high up
> the food chain as the Middle Man can get.

Not necessarily.  Although this concept makes sense, it is not
universal.  I can't speak to the escalation practices at BellSouth, but
in the software industry where i work that is not the case.
Specifically, reseller technicians go through the same call support
process as end-users.  Again, not universal, but more often than not.

I've dealt with BellSouth business services in the past as a customer of
Savvis (pre C&W days).  Back then we had to open a trouble ticket with
Savvis, who opened a trouble ticket with WCOM, who had to open a trouble
ticket with BellSouth.  Each step had up to a 1 hour turn-around time,
totaling 3 hours just to get a response, and 3 more hours to get a
resolution.  As engineers dealing with engineers, if we had cut out the
middlemen the resolution (in this case a truck roll) would have occurred
sooner and our backhoe'd circuit would have been restored quicker.

The value of a middleman can only be assessed by each consumer.  In my
case I don't see the need.  YMMV.

-Jim P.





From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Sun Jan 23 12:00:28 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Sun Jan 23 12:00:28 2005
Subject: [ale] Load...
In-Reply-To: <200501231018.03574.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
References: <200501231018.03574.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
Message-ID: <1106499358.16329.82.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>

On Sun, 2005-01-23 at 10:18 -0500, David Corbin wrote:
> I have system were top is giving this...
> 
> top - 10:14:05 up 13 days, 14:01,  1 user,  load average: 3.00, 3.00, 3.00
> Tasks:  56 total,   1 running,  55 sleeping,   0 stopped,   0 zombie
> Cpu(s):   0.3% user,   0.0% system,   0.0% nice,  99.7% idle
> 
> Notice how the load average is exactly 3.00 for all 1, 5 and 15 minutes.  Yet, 
> the system is substantially idle.  This is pretty odd to begin with, but 
> given the number of automated process on this system, the eveness is quite 
> disturbing.  
> 
> The system does seem to be a bit slugish when used interactively.
> "ps ax" yields nothing that looks suspicious to me, but I'm not sure that's 
> worth much.
> 
> Ideas?

1. A process is "stuck". Some bug has it in a loop that keeps hitting
the bo with out doing anything. My usual suspects are the "bug-free"
releases of java, the jvm, and any browser.

2. You've been cracked and ps has been replaced. Start running a ps from
a statically compiled version on a CD (Tom's Root Boot floppy will do
fine).
> 
> David
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> !DSPAM:41f3c0a0324399873815939!
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From rb211 at tds.net  Sun Jan 23 12:28:10 2005
From: rb211 at tds.net (William Bagwell)
Date: Sun Jan 23 12:28:10 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <1106495542.23449.18.camel@blue>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev> <200501231011.58916.rb211@tds.net>
	<1106495542.23449.18.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <200501231225.40073.rb211@tds.net>

On Sunday 23 January 2005 10:52 am, Jim Popovitch wrote:
>Snips
> ?Since most people on this list run their own mailserver, etc. 

Not at that point yet:( One thing I did not make clear, TDS is both my ISP 
and Phone company. A sprawling independent who bought out the tiny Nelson 
Ballground phone company a few years ago....

> one needs to inquire as to what the real advantages are of using a 
> middle man instead of dealing direct with the  provider.

Like many others, I will have no choice. Anything neat, nifty, or fun is 
against the terms of service for residential. A business class connection 
will cost far more than dealing with a middle man. Even though my 
experiences with TDS have been mostly positive, I'm still eagerly awaiting 
middle men in the boonies.

Yoo Hoo, Speedfactory, Speakeasy! Were up here between Alltel and the 
Ellijay phone co;-)
-- 
William


From drifter at oppositelock.org  Sun Jan 23 13:22:21 2005
From: drifter at oppositelock.org (Sean Kilpatrick)
Date: Sun Jan 23 13:22:21 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <200501231225.40073.rb211@tds.net>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev> <1106495542.23449.18.camel@blue>
	<200501231225.40073.rb211@tds.net>
Message-ID: <200501231317.35680.drifter@oppositelock.org>

On Sunday 23 January 2005 10:52 am, Jim Popovitch wrote:
| Snips
| > ?Since most people on this list run their own mailserver, etc. 

I dunna know about that.  Maybe more folks on this list run their
own mailservers, etc, than don't, but I'd bet it's close.

I, for one do not. But I can mooch off my son! :)

But to my point:  I live inside the Loop here in Atlanta and
BS provides the last mile of copper to my house.  I used MIndspring/
Earthlink for years until their tech support went down the tubes
to the Philippines. At that point I had a choice:  BS or Speed
Factory, Speakeasy, etal.  BS had a lower price for DSL but only
with pppoe and dynamic address.  BS's charge for a fixed address
was higher than some of the other "middlemen." That's why I ended
up with Speakeasy: No pppoe, fixed address, excellent tech support
(that is willing to talk Linux/unix), multiple mail boxes without
additional charge, no problem with multiple computers accessing
the DSL connection.

My main complaint with BS is that way too many of their pole
climbers are incompetent and the odds are that the first one sent
out to look at your "issue" either won't have a clue and will fake
a response, or he/she will screw up the problem, making it worse
for the next tech sent out. More than once I have had to wait for
the third or fourth pole climber to show up (meaning multiple calls
to customer (mostly) non-service) before the problem was properly
diagnosed and repaired.  More to the point, I cannot remember the
last time I had a problem with the last mile of copper and BS managed
to properly diagnose and repair the problem on the _first_ try.
As best I can remember that hasn't happened once in the six years
I have lived in the Atlanta area.

Sean


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From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 23 14:08:18 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sun Jan 23 14:08:18 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <200501231317.35680.drifter@oppositelock.org>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev> <1106495542.23449.18.camel@blue>
	<200501231225.40073.rb211@tds.net>
	<200501231317.35680.drifter@oppositelock.org>
Message-ID: <1106506972.25997.14.camel@blue>

On Sun, 2005-01-23 at 13:17 -0500, Sean Kilpatrick wrote:

> But to my point:  I live inside the Loop here in Atlanta and
> BS provides the last mile of copper to my house.  I used MIndspring/
> Earthlink for years until their tech support went down the tubes
> to the Philippines. At that point I had a choice:  BS or Speed
> Factory, Speakeasy, etal.  BS had a lower price for DSL but only
> with pppoe and dynamic address.  

I don't know how long ago you tried BellSouth, but as I reported earlier
this month my experience (after reading the instructions) was that pppoe
is not necessarily required on the client machine.  The device shipped
to me took care of the pppoe connection and all I had to do was plug an
ethernet cable into the device.  As i understand it, pppoe is going to
be standard with any non-static DSL service.  In my case BellSouth
provided a DSL "modem" that masked the pppoe mess from me.  In this
regard, I see BellSouth's offering being as simple as hooking up a cable
modem.

> BS's charge for a fixed address
> was higher than some of the other "middlemen." That's why I ended
> up with Speakeasy: No pppoe, fixed address, excellent tech support
> (that is willing to talk Linux/unix), multiple mail boxes without
> additional charge, no problem with multiple computers accessing
> the DSL connection.

That seems to be the general consensus of most Speakeasy/SpeedFactory
customers so far.  I don't have the need for a static IP at home, and I
don't rely on my transit provider to provide email services.  As for
Tech Support, I guess that some people want/need someone on the phone to
help them configure their side of the connection.  This is where I
differ.  I'm comfortable with the copper/75-ohm where it hits my
doorstep, I only need to talk to someone when their side fails.

> My main complaint with BS is that way too many of their pole
> climbers are incompetent and the odds are that the first one sent
> out to look at your "issue" either won't have a clue and will fake
> a response, or he/she will screw up the problem, making it worse
> for the next tech sent out. More than once I have had to wait for
> the third or fourth pole climber to show up (meaning multiple calls
> to customer (mostly) non-service) before the problem was properly
> diagnosed and repaired.  More to the point, I cannot remember the
> last time I had a problem with the last mile of copper and BS managed
> to properly diagnose and repair the problem on the _first_ try.
> As best I can remember that hasn't happened once in the six years
> I have lived in the Atlanta area.

If there is a last mile problem, can Speakeasy send someone up the pole
and/or to your house or is the tech a BellSouth employee/contractor?

-Jim P.





From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Sun Jan 23 14:29:09 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Sun Jan 23 14:29:09 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <1106495542.23449.18.camel@blue>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev> <1106434284.9921.14.camel@blue>
	<41F3101F.2030307@3times25.net>  <200501231011.58916.rb211@tds.net>
	<1106495542.23449.18.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <1106508288.14668.51.camel@linux.linxdev.com>

I have a business to run so I do not have time to deal with tech
support.  If you have the time then so be it.  I pay Speedfactory more
than you pay BS so I let them deal with it.

If I spend one hour on the phone with BS then I've wasted all the money
I would have saved by choosing BS over Speedfactory.

On Sun, 2005-01-23 at 10:52, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> On Sun, 2005-01-23 at 10:11 -0500, William Bagwell wrote:
> > Do we see a pattern here?
> 
> Here's the way I see it:  (tread/thread lightly)
> 
> When someone uses SpeedFactory/SpeakEasy they are, in most cases,
> essentially dealing with a middle man who is using the exact same
> BellSouth cooper as BellSouth would use.  Since most people on this list
> run their own mailserver, etc. one needs to inquire as to what the real
> advantages are of using a middle man instead of dealing direct with the
> provider.
> 
> Most people cite higher Tech Support approval with the middle man DSL
> providers.  However, if the middle man doesn't own the cooper the only
> recourse is for the middle man to go back to the provider (BellSouth)
> for resolution.  So... looking at this issue one can presume one of two
> things:
> 
>   - BellSouth is essentially outsourcing Tech Support to intelligent
>     middlemen who intermediate between the customer and BellSouth
>     (probably very politely too)
> 
>   - Some people are outsourcing their Tech Support problem(s) to a
>     an intelligent middleman who argues with BellSouth on their 
>     behalf (again, probably very politely)
> 
> So, The conclusion I draw is this: I can avoid the middle man if I am
> intelligent enough to not require their mail/dns services.  All I have
> to do is temper my frustrations when dealing with BellSouth.  
> 
> -Jim P.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From danscox at mindspring.com  Sun Jan 23 14:41:06 2005
From: danscox at mindspring.com (Danny Cox)
Date: Sun Jan 23 14:41:06 2005
Subject: [ale] gcc programming
In-Reply-To: <41F31179.6040208@3times25.net>
References: <0bcd01c500f2$91557670$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
	<41F31179.6040208@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <1106509004.4739.39.camel@pip>

Geoffrey,

On Sat, 2005-01-22 at 21:52 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> This is probably as good a place as any I suspect.

	Agreed!  Not to sound like a troll, but I'd submit that this forum is a
better place for programming questions than other topics attempted here.
"Troll, troll, troll, troll,..." <sung to the tune of "Spam, spam, spam,
spam....".

> You'll likely want to write the debug info to standard error and capture.
> 
> Here's how I do it in C so that I can track where the data was spit out:
> 
> (void)fprintf(stderr, "%s %d: %s\n", __FILE__, __LINE__, debugdata);

	I use this a lot, but there a new gcc-only construct "__FUNCTION__",
used like "__FILE__", which will substitute the name of the current
function as a quoted string.

	Just FYI, and as a matter of both style and later convenience, I write
my functions with the scope and type on a separate line like this:

static char *
foo (char *bar)
{
}

So that a search of:

	grep '^foo' *.c

will return the definition (or is that declaration, I can never remember
which is which ;-) of the function itself, none of it's calls.

-- 
kernel, n.: A part of an operating system that preserves the
medieval traditions of sorcery and black art.

Danny


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 23 14:48:26 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sun Jan 23 14:48:26 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <1106508288.14668.51.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev> <1106434284.9921.14.camel@blue>
	<41F3101F.2030307@3times25.net>  <200501231011.58916.rb211@tds.net>
	<1106495542.23449.18.camel@blue>
	<1106508288.14668.51.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
Message-ID: <1106509288.27240.13.camel@blue>

On Sun, 2005-01-23 at 14:24 -0500, Christopher Fowler wrote:
> I have a business to run so I do not have time to deal with tech
> support.  If you have the time then so be it.  

But I don't send time dealing with Tech Support, which is part of my
whole point for avoiding the middleman.  It brings no value to me to pay
for something I don't need, and could do faster myself if needed.  YMMV.
It makes no sense for me to pay someone else solely for the ability to
call BellSouth on my behalf.

-Jim P.





From hbbs at comcast.net  Sun Jan 23 15:41:46 2005
From: hbbs at comcast.net (Jeff Hubbs)
Date: Sun Jan 23 15:41:46 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <1106506972.25997.14.camel@blue>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev> <1106495542.23449.18.camel@blue>
	<200501231225.40073.rb211@tds.net>
	<200501231317.35680.drifter@oppositelock.org>
	<1106506972.25997.14.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <1106512616.4540.1133.camel@juanita>


> If there is a last mile problem, can Speakeasy send someone up the pole
> and/or to your house 

Not only no, but HELL no.  I'm pretty sure it's as illegal for
Speakeasy, etc. to do it as it would be for you to do it.  


From drifter at oppositelock.org  Sun Jan 23 16:04:02 2005
From: drifter at oppositelock.org (Sean Kilpatrick)
Date: Sun Jan 23 16:04:02 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <1106506972.25997.14.camel@blue>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>
	<200501231317.35680.drifter@oppositelock.org>
	<1106506972.25997.14.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <200501231559.29737.drifter@oppositelock.org>

On Sunday 23 January 2005 02:02 pm, Jim Popovitch wrote:
| That seems to be the general consensus of most Speakeasy/SpeedFactory
| customers so far. ?I don't have the need for a static IP at home, and I
| don't rely on my transit provider to provide email services. 

Jim,
What is the BS charge if you want to have more than one machine
(from the in-home network) accessing the internet?  When last
I checked, that wasn't permitted on a "home" account. It required
a "business" account with a second, serious, upcharge for a
"business" phone line.

You also wrote:

|  I only need to talk to someone when their side fails.

Maybe you have had better luck with BS tech/customer support than
I have.  The last time I tried to use words like "DSL connection,"
"ping" and "DNS server" this dialog ensued:

BS:   What version of Windows are you using?
Me:   I'm not; I use Linux.
BS:   I'm sorry, sir. There is no way we can help you.
Me:   Can I speak with your supervisor?
BS:   Certainly, sir.
<HOLD>
BS:   This is <name>. How can I help you?
Me:   <repeat technical problem using technical buzz words>
BS:   What version of Windows are you using?
Me:   I'm not using Windows.   And this isn't a software problem.
      It's a hardware problem somewhere on your line.
BS:   I'm sorry, sir. If you aren't using Windows I don't know
      how I can help you.
Me:   Thank you. <hangup>

Went back to Speakeasy tech support, got from them another BS
telephone number to call for tech support/customer service (as
opposed to customer service/tech support) and finally got to a
supervisor (two up as I recall) who understood what I was saying.
Two days later the third pole climber found and fixed the problem.
I do remember that the call center that was, finally, able to help
me was in Macon.
My point is that it took both Speakeasy and me badgering BS to
get them to move on the problem.

Sean

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From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 23 16:13:05 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sun Jan 23 16:13:05 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <1106512616.4540.1133.camel@juanita>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev> <1106495542.23449.18.camel@blue>
	<200501231225.40073.rb211@tds.net>
	<200501231317.35680.drifter@oppositelock.org>
	<1106506972.25997.14.camel@blue> <1106512616.4540.1133.camel@juanita>
Message-ID: <1106514460.2548.5.camel@blue>

On Sun, 2005-01-23 at 15:36 -0500, Jeff Hubbs wrote:
> > If there is a last mile problem, can Speakeasy send someone up the pole
> > and/or to your house 
> 
> Not only no, but HELL no.  I'm pretty sure it's as illegal for
> Speakeasy, etc. to do it as it would be for you to do it.  

Surely those that dislike the BellSouth "monopoly" would advocate having
any-and-all type access to the copper, right?  Imagine the mess and
further degradation of service regardless of the "provider".

-Jim P.





From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 23 16:23:17 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sun Jan 23 16:23:17 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <200501231559.29737.drifter@oppositelock.org>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>
	<200501231317.35680.drifter@oppositelock.org>
	<1106506972.25997.14.camel@blue>
	<200501231559.29737.drifter@oppositelock.org>
Message-ID: <1106515068.2548.16.camel@blue>

On Sun, 2005-01-23 at 15:59 -0500, Sean Kilpatrick wrote:
> On Sunday 23 January 2005 02:02 pm, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> | That seems to be the general consensus of most Speakeasy/SpeedFactory
> | customers so far.  I don't have the need for a static IP at home, and I
> | don't rely on my transit provider to provide email services. 
> 
> Jim,
> What is the BS charge if you want to have more than one machine
> (from the in-home network) accessing the internet?  

It depends.  They charge per IP, so if you need multiple IPs there is a
charge.  I don't know what this is as I don't use BellSouth, I use
Comcast.

> When last I checked, that wasn't permitted on a "home" account. 
> It required a "business" account with a second, serious, upcharge 
> for a "business" phone line.

That line of thinking is pretty dated, I don't know of any provider that
enforces that mentality today.  Who doesn't have a broadband router at
home with at least a printer and wifi device on the same line as their
computer?  The DSL/Cable providers have realized that they have no
strength inside of a consumer's home other then leased equipment.

> 
> You also wrote:
> 
> |  I only need to talk to someone when their side fails.
> 
> Maybe you have had better luck with BS tech/customer support than
> I have.  The last time I tried to use words like "DSL connection,"
> "ping" and "DNS server" this dialog ensued:

Perhaps you shouldn't have tried to use those words?  ;-)  If there was
an issue, all you had to do was report it.  I'll agree that a lot of the
CSRs are limited in their skills, you and I trying to speak to them at a
higher level would surely not work.  Sometimes you have to be creative
in solving a problem by presenting it as something they can understand
and address.

> 
> BS:   What version of Windows are you using?
> Me:   I'm not; I use Linux.

Mistake.  Why not just say Windows?  Step back for a moment. Are you
after solving the problem or advocating Linux?  You and I know that if
it is a IP connectivity problem that the OS doesn't matter.  Dragging an
un-skilled CSR down your path isn't going to motivate them into opening
a trouble ticket that leads to resolution.

-Jim P.




From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Sun Jan 23 16:45:15 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Sun Jan 23 16:45:15 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <1106512616.4540.1133.camel@juanita>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev> <1106495542.23449.18.camel@blue>
	<200501231225.40073.rb211@tds.net>
	<200501231317.35680.drifter@oppositelock.org>
	<1106506972.25997.14.camel@blue> <1106512616.4540.1133.camel@juanita>
Message-ID: <1106516404.16329.88.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>

On Sun, 2005-01-23 at 15:36 -0500, Jeff Hubbs wrote:
> > If there is a last mile problem, can Speakeasy send someone up the pole
> > and/or to your house 
> 
> Not only no, but HELL no.  I'm pretty sure it's as illegal for
> Speakeasy, etc. to do it as it would be for you to do it. 

Speakeasy has their wire support by Covad. However a BS tech had to
install the *^$% dry jack. BS "owns" the wire up to the demarcation
line.

I don't know about illegal, but I'm sure some non-BS tech hanging off a
pole would get the suspicions raised in the Dept. of Homeland Defense :)
>  
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> !DSPAM:41f40b2e34367991365460!
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From esoteric at 3times25.net  Sun Jan 23 17:07:28 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Sun Jan 23 17:07:28 2005
Subject: [ale] gcc programming
In-Reply-To: <20050122224637.A26058@greenie.frogspace.net>
References: <0bcd01c500f2$91557670$bb00a8c0@Ringo>	<41F31179.6040208@3times25.net>
	<20050122224637.A26058@greenie.frogspace.net>
Message-ID: <41F41F17.2000501@3times25.net>

Fulton Green wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 22, 2005 at 09:52:41PM -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> 
>>You'll likely want to write the debug info to standard error and capture.
>>
>>Here's how I do it in C so that I can track where the data was spit out:
>>
>>(void)fprintf(stderr, "%s %d: %s\n", __FILE__, __LINE__, debugdata);
>>
>>Then when you run your program, do this:
>>
>>program 2> program.err
> 
> 
> Which is basically what I said in my post earlier tonight, except I was
> too lazy to copy 'n' paste the printf() example from Google.

I did not copy and paste, I typed it from memory, thank you.  I don't 
need help from Google to write C.

> Geoffrey ... did you not receive my earlier post?

It's very likely they cross posted, I did catch yours after I posted mine.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Sun Jan 23 17:18:18 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Sun Jan 23 17:18:18 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <1106460512.18288.10.camel@blue>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>	<008801c4ff2d$35cd6180$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>	<41F27F55.9020308@3times25.net>	<1106418776.5844.5.camel@blue>
	<41F2AF11.2000903@3times25.net>	<1106426849.6815.19.camel@blue>
	<41F30B26.2090209@3times25.net>	<1106448435.17461.20.camel@blue>
	<41F313D2.6040006@3times25.net> <1106460512.18288.10.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <41F4219F.4040208@3times25.net>

Jim Popovitch wrote:

> Nor do I discount your experiences.

You twisted the statements.  Stated that I couldn't possibly of 
understood what the tech's conversation was on my line.  What exactly is 
that?

> I only conclude that my experiences
> were better because I consistently strive to be level-headed, realistic,
> and optimistic about the resolution(s) to the problems I face.

Well you're wrong.

> I think
> you have previously over-stated examples to the contrary.

You deeply need help.

> Sadly I think this has left you jaded, ill-experienced,

Ill-experienced?   You are clueless.

> and lacking value for the money you have spent.

You are right, I did not get the value for my money when it comes to 
BellSouth.

> I on the other hand feel that my money, with BellSouth, has been well spent.

Whatever, go buy some Bellsouth stock then...

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Sun Jan 23 17:26:07 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Sun Jan 23 17:26:07 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <1106515068.2548.16.camel@blue>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>
	<200501231317.35680.drifter@oppositelock.org>
	<1106506972.25997.14.camel@blue>
	<200501231559.29737.drifter@oppositelock.org>
	<1106515068.2548.16.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <1106518900.18682.3.camel@linux.linxdev.com>

On Sun, 2005-01-23 at 16:17, Jim Popovitch wrote:

> 
> That line of thinking is pretty dated, I don't know of any provider that
> enforces that mentality today.  Who doesn't have a broadband router at
> home with at least a printer and wifi device on the same line as their
> computer?  The DSL/Cable providers have realized that they have no
> strength inside of a consumer's home other then leased equipment.
> 

Wrong.  You may think that but you are bound by their terms of service.
To do what you describe is an extra $5.00 per month.

Static IP?  $14.95 extra.  
https://www.fastaccess.com/content/consumer/products.jsp#dsllite


My Speedfactory service is the same speed as their Xtreme at $44.95 per
month.  I pay extra for the static IP.  $59.00 per month.  Seems to me
that $44.95 + $14.95 + $5.00 is more than what I pay.  Technically you
could cheat and not pay the $5.00.  Its the same as downloading illegal
music from Kazaa.  Stealing.....




From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 23 17:29:10 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sun Jan 23 17:29:10 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <41F4219F.4040208@3times25.net>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>
	<008801c4ff2d$35cd6180$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>	<41F27F55.9020308@3times25.net>
	<1106418776.5844.5.camel@blue> <41F2AF11.2000903@3times25.net>
	<1106426849.6815.19.camel@blue> <41F30B26.2090209@3times25.net>
	<1106448435.17461.20.camel@blue> <41F313D2.6040006@3times25.net>
	<1106460512.18288.10.camel@blue>  <41F4219F.4040208@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <1106519017.2545.1.camel@blue>

LOL!  Wake up on the wrong side of the sofa Geoff?

-Jim P.

On Sun, 2005-01-23 at 17:13 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> Jim Popovitch wrote:
> 
> > Nor do I discount your experiences.
> 
> You twisted the statements.  Stated that I couldn't possibly of 
> understood what the tech's conversation was on my line.  What exactly is 
> that?
> 
> > I only conclude that my experiences
> > were better because I consistently strive to be level-headed, realistic,
> > and optimistic about the resolution(s) to the problems I face.
> 
> Well you're wrong.
> 
> > I think
> > you have previously over-stated examples to the contrary.
> 
> You deeply need help.
> 
> > Sadly I think this has left you jaded, ill-experienced,
> 
> Ill-experienced?   You are clueless.
> 
> > and lacking value for the money you have spent.
> 
> You are right, I did not get the value for my money when it comes to 
> BellSouth.
> 
> > I on the other hand feel that my money, with BellSouth, has been well spent.
> 
> Whatever, go buy some Bellsouth stock then...
> 


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 23 17:50:44 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sun Jan 23 17:50:44 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <1106518900.18682.3.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>
	<200501231317.35680.drifter@oppositelock.org>
	<1106506972.25997.14.camel@blue>
	<200501231559.29737.drifter@oppositelock.org>
	<1106515068.2548.16.camel@blue>
	<1106518900.18682.3.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
Message-ID: <1106520314.2545.17.camel@blue>

On Sun, 2005-01-23 at 17:21 -0500, Christopher Fowler wrote:
> On Sun, 2005-01-23 at 16:17, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> 
> > 
> > That line of thinking is pretty dated, I don't know of any provider that
> > enforces that mentality today.  Who doesn't have a broadband router at
> > home with at least a printer and wifi device on the same line as their
> > computer?  The DSL/Cable providers have realized that they have no
> > strength inside of a consumer's home other then leased equipment.
> > 
> 
> Wrong.  You may think that but you are bound by their terms of service.
> To do what you describe is an extra $5.00 per month.

Wrong?  I have a BB router, a printer, a workstation, a wifi-router, a
Sun, a UPS, and even a Cisco PIX, all hooked up on my home network.  You
are telling me that you think BellSouth or Comcast has the right to
charge me for equipment on my home network?  You are wrong.  They may
think they have the right, but they don't.

Basically an external provider has no means of enforcing terms of
service within my premises where they have no legal authority to
determine what equipment I have.  Just because someone puts words into a
document and calls it "Terms of Service" in no way establishes authority
to enforce said words.

> 
> Static IP?  $14.95 extra.  
> https://www.fastaccess.com/content/consumer/products.jsp#dsllite
> 
> 
> My Speedfactory service is the same speed as their Xtreme at $44.95 per
> month.  I pay extra for the static IP.  $59.00 per month.  Seems to me
> that $44.95 + $14.95 + $5.00 is more than what I pay.  

Well, I don't have BellSouth, I have Comcast so I can't speak to
BellSouth's pricing.  Comcast is ~$42 for 4Mbps down and 384kbps up.
For $10 more you can get 6Mbps down and 768Kbps up.  Not too shabby.
Static IPs fall under a different category, something I don't need, so I
don't track that price.

> Technically you could cheat and not pay the $5.00.  Its the same as 
> downloading illegal music from Kazaa.  Stealing.....

LOL!  I don't pay the $5.00, chiefly because I don't use BellSouth. ;-)

-Jim P.







From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Sun Jan 23 18:44:13 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Sun Jan 23 18:44:13 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <1106520314.2545.17.camel@blue>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>
	<200501231317.35680.drifter@oppositelock.org>
	<1106506972.25997.14.camel@blue>
	<200501231559.29737.drifter@oppositelock.org>
	<1106515068.2548.16.camel@blue>
	<1106518900.18682.3.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
	<1106520314.2545.17.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <1106523590.18682.6.camel@linux.linxdev.com>

On Sun, 2005-01-23 at 17:45, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> LOL!  I don't pay the $5.00, chiefly because I don't use BellSouth. ;-)
> 

I'm not saying you do.  I'm saying that per the options on the web page
BS is not cheaper than SF. 



From Dow.Hurst at mindspring.com  Sun Jan 23 19:50:26 2005
From: Dow.Hurst at mindspring.com (Dow Hurst)
Date: Sun Jan 23 19:50:26 2005
Subject: [ale] PDA prefs
In-Reply-To: <1106249034.16329.78.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
References: <1106249034.16329.78.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <41F4453E.5060800@mindspring.com>

James,
What OS have you been running on the Zaurus?  And, which hardware model 
do you have?  Thanks,
Dow


James P. Kinney III wrote:

>I would _LOVE_ to get a treo 650. But Nextel is still braindamaged and
>the merger with Sprint is not final until Q4 '05.
>
>I like my Zaurus but have found it to be more of a toy than a tool.
>
>So I'm in the market for a new PDA.
>
>Require:
>
>Sync to a linux box (I use mostly Evolution but am moving towards
>Thunderbird. Calendaring is a big must for me or else I'm lost).
>
>decent battery life. I can charge every day but it must last longer than
>a long work day.
>
>Wants:
>
>WiFi would be nice built in or with an add on card.
>
>So what are other Alers using?
>  
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>Ale mailing list
>Ale at ale.org
>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>


From jloden at toughguy.net  Sun Jan 23 19:57:49 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Sun Jan 23 19:57:49 2005
Subject: [ale] Webhosting Questions
In-Reply-To: <20050122222321.O46441-100000@m-net.arbornet.org>
References: <20050122222321.O46441-100000@m-net.arbornet.org>
Message-ID: <200501231951.37718.jloden@toughguy.net>

I can wholeheartedly recommend http://tektonic.net 

They have great pricing and plans, and really good customer service.  They've 
treated me quite well and it's a reasonable price for full ssh and server 
access to a VPS. 

-Jay

On Saturday 22 January 2005 10:31 pm, exo wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am bit confused here.  I saw some posts here about domain name
> registering, regarding godaddy.com.  Well I got a domain from them.  But
> now the question comes for webhosting.  Domains is one thing, hosting is
> another issue.
>
> Checking google for reviews on godaddy.com webhosting plans - I see lots
> of complaints.  But on their website, I am amazed at 100GB bandwidth and 1
> or 2 gigs of space..and its on linux also :)  But should I go for them?
>
> What is a good recommened webhosting?  I do need linux support (ssh,
> sftp), shell access, Lots of bandwidth (100GB looks great) and minimum of
> 1gig of space.  The reason is that I have to put some big files to be
> downloaded few times a month..so bandwidth is issue.  50GB is fine and
> all..but 100GB or higher is sweet...and then most importantly the price is
> a factor.  With godaddy I get it under 10 bucks per month.  But
> reliability is also there?  Please suggest..
>
> I looked at Canaca <-- 200GB bandwidth and 10gigs webspace for 4
> bucks/month..but reviews for this are horrible - i mean really bad
>
> Dreamhost? I could not find that much reviews on this?
>
> There is Aplus.net and lunarpages.  But I get a lot less from this
> compared to the previous ones.
>
> So Ale'rs would you be kind to suggest me good decent webhosting
> service...or Should I go with godaddy? or others on ....
>
> Thanks once again :)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Sun Jan 23 20:38:45 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Sun Jan 23 20:38:45 2005
Subject: [ale] PDA prefs
In-Reply-To: <41F4453E.5060800@mindspring.com>
References: <1106249034.16329.78.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
	<41F4453E.5060800@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <1106530452.16329.91.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>

On Sun, 2005-01-23 at 19:45 -0500, Dow Hurst wrote:
> James,
> What OS have you been running on the Zaurus? 

Latest opie on a 5500 w/a 512 MB SD card.

The latest opie is an improvement over the first OpenZaurus release. I
still have numerous things that hang if I go a bit too fast, it seems.

>  And, which hardware model 
> do you have?  Thanks,
> Dow
> 
> 
> James P. Kinney III wrote:
> 
> >I would _LOVE_ to get a treo 650. But Nextel is still braindamaged and
> >the merger with Sprint is not final until Q4 '05.
> >
> >I like my Zaurus but have found it to be more of a toy than a tool.
> >
> >So I'm in the market for a new PDA.
> >
> >Require:
> >
> >Sync to a linux box (I use mostly Evolution but am moving towards
> >Thunderbird. Calendaring is a big must for me or else I'm lost).
> >
> >decent battery life. I can charge every day but it must last longer than
> >a long work day.
> >
> >Wants:
> >
> >WiFi would be nice built in or with an add on card.
> >
> >So what are other Alers using?
> >  
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Ale mailing list
> >Ale at ale.org
> >http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> !DSPAM:41f44581240781180035716!
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From jb at sourceillustrated.com  Sun Jan 23 20:58:34 2005
From: jb at sourceillustrated.com (John Wells)
Date: Sun Jan 23 20:58:34 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: LPR client for Windows 9x?
Message-ID: <20050123220053.so7abuhiirs4osw8@devsea.com>

Guys,

Setting up an LPR client in Windows XP is easy because it has built-in support. 
However, this is unfortunately not the case in Windows 9x, which I have to
support.

Anyone know of a FOSS implementation of an LPR client for 98 and above?

Thanks!
John


From unixdude at gmail.com  Sun Jan 23 21:06:31 2005
From: unixdude at gmail.com (Jim Patterson)
Date: Sun Jan 23 21:06:31 2005
Subject: [ale] Load...
In-Reply-To: <200501231018.03574.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
References: <200501231018.03574.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
Message-ID: <d8b213cb050123180137729cbe@mail.gmail.com>

David,

> I have system were top is giving this...
> 
> top - 10:14:05 up 13 days, 14:01,  1 user,  load average: 3.00, 3.00, 3.00
> Tasks:  56 total,   1 running,  55 sleeping,   0 stopped,   0 zombie
> Cpu(s):   0.3% user,   0.0% system,   0.0% nice,  99.7% idle

It looks like you have some processes that are hitting the run queue, and
then boucing right back out.  You may be able to see them if you try:

ps -eo state,pid,cmd | grep ^R

A few times and look for the common process.  I've seen this happen with
jobs that are reading from something that is returning an error but the app
never stops even after the error.  But it can happen for many other reasons
as well.
 
Jim P.


From dcorbin at machturtle.com  Sun Jan 23 21:26:51 2005
From: dcorbin at machturtle.com (David Corbin)
Date: Sun Jan 23 21:26:51 2005
Subject: [ale] Load...
In-Reply-To: <d8b213cb050123180137729cbe@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200501231018.03574.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
	<d8b213cb050123180137729cbe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200501232121.08319.dcorbin@machturtle.com>

On Sunday 23 January 2005 09:01 pm, Jim Patterson wrote:
> ps -eo state,pid,cmd | grep ^R

That yields nothing intersting in a minute of execution every second, but 
thanks for the suggestion.


From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Sun Jan 23 21:36:50 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Sun Jan 23 21:36:50 2005
Subject: [ale] Load...
In-Reply-To: <200501232121.08319.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
References: <200501231018.03574.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
	<d8b213cb050123180137729cbe@mail.gmail.com>
	<200501232121.08319.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
Message-ID: <1106533949.18682.8.camel@linux.linxdev.com>

Actually I'm having a load problem myself and I think I've found it
using this command.

On Sun, 2005-01-23 at 21:21, David Corbin wrote:
> On Sunday 23 January 2005 09:01 pm, Jim Patterson wrote:
> > ps -eo state,pid,cmd | grep ^R
> 
> That yields nothing intersting in a minute of execution every second, but 
> thanks for the suggestion.
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From jbaldwin at antinode.net  Sun Jan 23 22:26:34 2005
From: jbaldwin at antinode.net (James Baldwin)
Date: Sun Jan 23 22:26:34 2005
Subject: [ale] gcc programming
In-Reply-To: <1106509004.4739.39.camel@pip>
References: <0bcd01c500f2$91557670$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
	<41F31179.6040208@3times25.net> <1106509004.4739.39.camel@pip>
Message-ID: <154189A2-6DB7-11D9-90DF-000D93C280F2@antinode.net>

On 23 Jan 2005, at 14:36, Danny Cox wrote:

> 	I use this a lot, but there a new gcc-only construct "__FUNCTION__",
> used like "__FILE__", which will substitute the name of the current
> function as a quoted string.

__FUNCTION__ is aliased to __func__ and has been for some time. Please 
DO NOT use __FUNCTION__. The only reason to use this is on _old_ 
versions of GCC. __func__ is standardized and has been since the early 
drafts of C99.

> Just FYI, and as a matter of both style and later convenience, I write
> my functions with the scope and type on a separate line like this:
<snip>

Ew. That's a broken appearing implementation of old-style c 
declarations. This would be somewhat useful when digging through 
/usr/include, however, since no sane programmers (/me dons flame 
retardent undies) write their declarations this way it isn't possible 
without reformatting all of your system headers.

If you do this in your own code I'd just recommend getting a decent IDE 
to program in: Xcode, SlickEdit, even emacs are more than capable of 
returning you function declarations based on simple searches across the 
whole project without necessitating the adoption of uncommon 
programming styles to ease grepping.
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From jloden at toughguy.net  Mon Jan 24 05:05:47 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Mon Jan 24 05:05:47 2005
Subject: [ale] debian acpi module errors, framebuffer
Message-ID: <200501240246.48116.jloden@toughguy.net>

pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5

The above is in dmesg on my newly installed Debian system, and I see insmod 
errors for both pciehprm and shpchprm when I boot.  In addition, configuring 
the Laptop Battery in Kcontrol, it tells me: 

"Your computer seems to have a partial ACPI installation. ACPI was probably 
enabled, but some of the sub-options were not - you need to enable at least 
'AC Adaptor' and 'Control Method Battery' and then rebuild your kernel."

I'm guessing the two are related, pretty clearly, but a) is there a way to 
install what is' missing without rebuilding a kernel, or b) can someone point 
me to some instructions on how to enable these then rebuild it if i need to? 

Separate question: I want to set up boot time to show my fonts in better 
resolution and have a background image as with splash...I think it's called 
framebuffer?  can anyone give me enough info to at least google so I know 
what I'm looking for?

-Jay


From mhirsch at nubridges.com  Mon Jan 24 05:47:41 2005
From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Mhirsch)
Date: Mon Jan 24 05:47:41 2005
Subject: [ale] Notification
Message-ID: <eghxwkrngaobvpzvjfj@ale.org>

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From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 24 08:16:10 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon Jan 24 08:16:10 2005
Subject: [ale] debian acpi module errors, framebuffer
In-Reply-To: <200501240246.48116.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <200501240246.48116.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <1106570497.9100.6.camel@blue>

Hi Jay,

Try disabling acpi in your kernel boot process.  To test this just add
acpi=off on the end of your lilo or grub boot sequence.  In grub, just
highlight the boot line and press 'e' to edit or 'p' to enter a password
if you set grub up with one.

-Jim P.

On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 02:46 -0500, Jay Loden wrote:
> pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
> pciehp: acpi_pciehprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
> shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:\_SB_.PCI0 evaluate _BBN fail=0x5
> shpchp: acpi_shpchprm:get_device PCI ROOT HID fail=0x5
> 
> The above is in dmesg on my newly installed Debian system, and I see insmod 
> errors for both pciehprm and shpchprm when I boot.  In addition, configuring 
> the Laptop Battery in Kcontrol, it tells me: 
> 
> "Your computer seems to have a partial ACPI installation. ACPI was probably 
> enabled, but some of the sub-options were not - you need to enable at least 
> 'AC Adaptor' and 'Control Method Battery' and then rebuild your kernel."
> 
> I'm guessing the two are related, pretty clearly, but a) is there a way to 
> install what is' missing without rebuilding a kernel, or b) can someone point 
> me to some instructions on how to enable these then rebuild it if i need to? 
> 
> Separate question: I want to set up boot time to show my fonts in better 
> resolution and have a background image as with splash...I think it's called 
> framebuffer?  can anyone give me enough info to at least google so I know 
> what I'm looking for?
> 
> -Jay
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From keith.watson at gtri.gatech.edu  Mon Jan 24 08:45:44 2005
From: keith.watson at gtri.gatech.edu (Keith R. Watson)
Date: Mon Jan 24 08:45:44 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: LPR client for Windows 9x?
In-Reply-To: <20050123220053.so7abuhiirs4osw8@devsea.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20050124073945.01e2aec0@casbah.gatech.edu>

At 22:00 1/23/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>Guys,
>
>Setting up an LPR client in Windows XP is easy because it has built-in 
>support.
>However, this is unfortunately not the case in Windows 9x, which I have to
>support.
>
>Anyone know of a FOSS implementation of an LPR client for 98 and above?
>
>Thanks!
>John

John,

I have looked for them in the past and there aren't many. Here are the ones 
I know of although not all of them are free. If you find others please let 
me know.

PMLPR Print Spooler for Windows 3.1 and Windows 95 - Freeware
http://boyer203.millersv.edu/www/pmlpr/pmlpr.htm


WLPR is an implementation of a BSD Unix LPR client. This allows a PC
runnig Windows 95, Window 3.1 or Windows For Workgroups to send files
over TCP/IP to a printer for printing. - Shareware

The most current version of WLPR I know of is 1.2. Do a Google search for 
wlpr12.zip.


ACITS LPR Remote Printing v3.6a for Windows 95/98/Me and NT 4.0 - not free
http://www.utexas.edu/academic/otl/software/lpr/


I recently found that D-Link ships one with their DP-303. I haven't tested 
it and so far I haven't figured out what kind of license it has.
http://support.dlink.com/products/view.asp?productid=DP%2D303
ftp://ftp.dlink.com/Printserver/LPR/LPR_100.zip


keith



-------------

Keith R. Watson                        GTRI/ISD
Systems Support Specialist III         Georgia Tech Research Institute
keith.watson at gtri.gatech.edu           Atlanta, GA  30332-0816
404-894-0836


From scottm at noesisopen.com  Mon Jan 24 09:31:33 2005
From: scottm at noesisopen.com (Scott A. Martin)
Date: Mon Jan 24 09:31:33 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: LPR client for Windows 9x?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050124073945.01e2aec0@casbah.gatech.edu>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050124073945.01e2aec0@casbah.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <1106576775.7265.46.camel@open.office.noesisopen.com>

Maybe the LPR client D-Link offers for download would be helpful.
Haven't tried it myself but the setup screens seem to point towards
generic implementation.

http://support.dlink.com/products/view.asp?productid=DP%2D303

Then again, when it comes time to print, they'll check for their
hardware on the other end.  :/

Scott

On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 08:35 -0500, Keith R. Watson wrote:
> At 22:00 1/23/2005 -0500, you wrote:
> >Guys,
> >
> >Setting up an LPR client in Windows XP is easy because it has built-in 
> >support.
> >However, this is unfortunately not the case in Windows 9x, which I have to
> >support.
> >
> >Anyone know of a FOSS implementation of an LPR client for 98 and above?
> >
> >Thanks!
> >John
> 
> John,
> 
> I have looked for them in the past and there aren't many. Here are the ones 
> I know of although not all of them are free. If you find others please let 
> me know.
> 
> PMLPR Print Spooler for Windows 3.1 and Windows 95 - Freeware
> http://boyer203.millersv.edu/www/pmlpr/pmlpr.htm
> 
> 
> WLPR is an implementation of a BSD Unix LPR client. This allows a PC
> runnig Windows 95, Window 3.1 or Windows For Workgroups to send files
> over TCP/IP to a printer for printing. - Shareware
> 
> The most current version of WLPR I know of is 1.2. Do a Google search for 
> wlpr12.zip.
> 
> 
> ACITS LPR Remote Printing v3.6a for Windows 95/98/Me and NT 4.0 - not free
> http://www.utexas.edu/academic/otl/software/lpr/
> 
> 
> I recently found that D-Link ships one with their DP-303. I haven't tested 
> it and so far I haven't figured out what kind of license it has.
> http://support.dlink.com/products/view.asp?productid=DP%2D303
> ftp://ftp.dlink.com/Printserver/LPR/LPR_100.zip
> 
> 
> keith
> 
> 
> 
> -------------
> 
> Keith R. Watson                        GTRI/ISD
> Systems Support Specialist III         Georgia Tech Research Institute
> keith.watson at gtri.gatech.edu           Atlanta, GA  30332-0816
> 404-894-0836
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
-- 
Scott A. Martin <scottm at noesisopen.com>
NOESIS Open Systems


From mhirsch at nubridges.com  Mon Jan 24 10:56:46 2005
From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael Hirsch)
Date: Mon Jan 24 10:56:46 2005
Subject: [ale] Seeking LVM presentation [ was: LVM - Can't add new drive?]
Message-ID: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF043D7C3F@germanium.numethods.com>

This might be a good time to extend a general invitation to give a
presentation on LVM.  LVM is a tool that many casual users don't know
much about, but it should be in our bag of tricks.  So, if you use VLM,
please consider volunteering to present it to the rest of us.

ALE Central has no speaker for February, and later dates are available
too.  Email me to schedule your talk.

Thanks,

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
Kent
> Pirkle
> Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2005 1:26 PM
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [ale] LVM - Can't add new drive?
> 
> Once you've extended the logical volume, you need to extend the
> filesystem as well, using either resize2fs or ext2online (to resize
> without unmounting).b
> 
> If you want to shrink a logical volume, always shrink the filesystem
> first, then the lv.
> 
> 
> On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 13:00:08 -0500, Nathan J. Underwood
> <ale1 at cybertechcafe.net> wrote:
> > I have an FC3 box with a single 30GB drive.  When I built the box, I
> > knew that I would need more than the 30GB for the /home partition,
but
> > didn't have a larger drive at the time (had one, but it was in use
in
> > the box that this box is replacing).  At any rate, I setup the /home
> > partition to be an lvm partition.  I'm now to the point of adding
the
> > new drive to the new machine, but I can't seem to get it to 'see'
that
> > new space.  I added the drive, and created (using fdisk) added one
> > single 160GB lvm (type 8e) partition.  I then used vgextend to add
that
> > drive to my volume group (VolGroup00, not creative, but that wasn't
the
> > idea).  Then, I did lvextend -L 100G /dev/VolGroup00/LogVol00, and
got
> > no errors.  lvdisplay shows that the LVSize is 150.00GB, but df -h
only
> > shows the following:
> >
> > [root at linux-fs2 home]# df -h
> > Filesystem            Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
> > /dev/hda1             9.7G  1.7G  7.5G  19% /
> > none                  252M     0  252M   0% /dev/shm
> > /dev/mapper/VolGroup00-LogVol00
> >                         18G  4.5G   13G  27% /home
> >
> > I'm on the howto from tldp
> > (http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO/index.html) now trying to
figure
> > out what I've missed, but would appreciate any gentle nudges in the
> > right direction.
> >
> > nathan
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale



From mhirsch at nubridges.com  Mon Jan 24 11:04:27 2005
From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael Hirsch)
Date: Mon Jan 24 11:04:27 2005
Subject: [ale] Load...
Message-ID: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF043D7C45@germanium.numethods.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
James
> P. Kinney III
> Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 11:56 AM
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [ale] Load...
> 
> On Sun, 2005-01-23 at 10:18 -0500, David Corbin wrote:
> > I have system were top is giving this...
> >
> > top - 10:14:05 up 13 days, 14:01,  1 user,  load average: 3.00,
3.00,
> 3.00
> > Tasks:  56 total,   1 running,  55 sleeping,   0 stopped,   0 zombie
> > Cpu(s):   0.3% user,   0.0% system,   0.0% nice,  99.7% idle
> >
> > Notice how the load average is exactly 3.00 for all 1, 5 and 15
minutes.
> Yet,
> > the system is substantially idle.  This is pretty odd to begin with,
but
> > given the number of automated process on this system, the eveness is
> quite
> > disturbing.
> >
> > The system does seem to be a bit slugish when used interactively.
> > "ps ax" yields nothing that looks suspicious to me, but I'm not sure
> that's
> > worth much.
> >
> > Ideas?
> 
> 1. A process is "stuck". Some bug has it in a loop that keeps hitting
> the bo with out doing anything. My usual suspects are the "bug-free"
> releases of java, the jvm, and any browser.

I had this once when a HD failed, but the kernel didn't notice.
Everything that tried to read a particular partition would hang in
kernel space.  Every time updatedb ran, another process would get stuck
and the load average would increase by one.  No one noticed this until
the LA got so high that sendmail refused to route anything.  Then people
noticed there was some problem.

Michael


From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Mon Jan 24 11:09:59 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Mon Jan 24 11:09:59 2005
Subject: [ale] screencam
Message-ID: <1106582379.16329.95.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>

I have found a screencam tool called vnc2swf. It looks pretty cool!
Captures the output from a vnc session and convertes on the fly to
flash movie.

However, I need to add sound to it. Anyone kone of/use a screen capture
to mpeg tool that I can later open in a video editor (Cinellerra)?
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From ale1 at cybertechcafe.net  Mon Jan 24 11:14:09 2005
From: ale1 at cybertechcafe.net (Nathan J. Underwood)
Date: Mon Jan 24 11:14:09 2005
Subject: [ale] Seeking LVM presentation [ was: LVM - Can't add new drive?]
In-Reply-To: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF043D7C3F@germanium.numethods.com>
References: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF043D7C3F@germanium.numethods.com>
Message-ID: <41F51D46.8070401@cybertechcafe.net>

I'm using it, but don't know that I'm comfortable enough with it [yet] 
to show it off.  I also don't know that I could make it to a central 
meeting (I've only been able to make it to 1 west meeting).  I would 
definitely like to see this presented by one of the resident guru's 
though (this trial by fire stuff is fun, but it's killing me).

--
registered linux user # 73046

Nathan J. Underwood
Cyber Tech Cafe' <><
http://www.cybertechcafe.net

Michael Hirsch wrote:
> This might be a good time to extend a general invitation to give a
> presentation on LVM.  LVM is a tool that many casual users don't know
> much about, but it should be in our bag of tricks.  So, if you use VLM,
> please consider volunteering to present it to the rest of us.
> 
> ALE Central has no speaker for February, and later dates are available
> too.  Email me to schedule your talk.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Michael
> 
> 
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
> 
> Kent
> 
>>Pirkle
>>Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2005 1:26 PM
>>To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
>>Subject: Re: [ale] LVM - Can't add new drive?
>>
>>Once you've extended the logical volume, you need to extend the
>>filesystem as well, using either resize2fs or ext2online (to resize
>>without unmounting).b
>>
>>If you want to shrink a logical volume, always shrink the filesystem
>>first, then the lv.
>>
>>
>>On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 13:00:08 -0500, Nathan J. Underwood
>><ale1 at cybertechcafe.net> wrote:
>>
>>>I have an FC3 box with a single 30GB drive.  When I built the box, I
>>>knew that I would need more than the 30GB for the /home partition,
> 
> but
> 
>>>didn't have a larger drive at the time (had one, but it was in use
> 
> in
> 
>>>the box that this box is replacing).  At any rate, I setup the /home
>>>partition to be an lvm partition.  I'm now to the point of adding
> 
> the
> 
>>>new drive to the new machine, but I can't seem to get it to 'see'
> 
> that
> 
>>>new space.  I added the drive, and created (using fdisk) added one
>>>single 160GB lvm (type 8e) partition.  I then used vgextend to add
> 
> that
> 
>>>drive to my volume group (VolGroup00, not creative, but that wasn't
> 
> the
> 
>>>idea).  Then, I did lvextend -L 100G /dev/VolGroup00/LogVol00, and
> 
> got
> 
>>>no errors.  lvdisplay shows that the LVSize is 150.00GB, but df -h
> 
> only
> 
>>>shows the following:
>>>
>>>[root at linux-fs2 home]# df -h
>>>Filesystem            Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
>>>/dev/hda1             9.7G  1.7G  7.5G  19% /
>>>none                  252M     0  252M   0% /dev/shm
>>>/dev/mapper/VolGroup00-LogVol00
>>>                        18G  4.5G   13G  27% /home
>>>
>>>I'm on the howto from tldp
>>>(http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO/index.html) now trying to
> 
> figure
> 
>>>out what I've missed, but would appreciate any gentle nudges in the
>>>right direction.
>>>
>>>nathan
>>>
>>>--
>>>No virus found in this outgoing message.
>>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>>Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Ale mailing list
>>>Ale at ale.org
>>>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Ale mailing list
>>Ale at ale.org
>>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Mon Jan 24 11:22:28 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Mon Jan 24 11:22:28 2005
Subject: [ale] Seeking LVM presentation [ was: LVM - Can't add new drive?]
In-Reply-To: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF043D7C3F@germanium.numethods.com>
References: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF043D7C3F@germanium.numethods.com>
Message-ID: <1106583447.16329.97.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>

On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 10:40 -0500, Michael Hirsch wrote:
> This might be a good time to extend a general invitation to give a
> presentation on LVM.  LVM is a tool that many casual users don't know
> much about, but it should be in our bag of tricks.  So, if you use VLM,
> please consider volunteering to present it to the rest of us.
> 
> ALE Central has no speaker for February, and later dates are available
> too.  Email me to schedule your talk.

I thought we were getting an Astrisk talk for Feb? :(
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Michael
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
> Kent
> > Pirkle
> > Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2005 1:26 PM
> > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> > Subject: Re: [ale] LVM - Can't add new drive?
> > 
> > Once you've extended the logical volume, you need to extend the
> > filesystem as well, using either resize2fs or ext2online (to resize
> > without unmounting).b
> > 
> > If you want to shrink a logical volume, always shrink the filesystem
> > first, then the lv.
> > 
> > 
> > On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 13:00:08 -0500, Nathan J. Underwood
> > <ale1 at cybertechcafe.net> wrote:
> > > I have an FC3 box with a single 30GB drive.  When I built the box, I
> > > knew that I would need more than the 30GB for the /home partition,
> but
> > > didn't have a larger drive at the time (had one, but it was in use
> in
> > > the box that this box is replacing).  At any rate, I setup the /home
> > > partition to be an lvm partition.  I'm now to the point of adding
> the
> > > new drive to the new machine, but I can't seem to get it to 'see'
> that
> > > new space.  I added the drive, and created (using fdisk) added one
> > > single 160GB lvm (type 8e) partition.  I then used vgextend to add
> that
> > > drive to my volume group (VolGroup00, not creative, but that wasn't
> the
> > > idea).  Then, I did lvextend -L 100G /dev/VolGroup00/LogVol00, and
> got
> > > no errors.  lvdisplay shows that the LVSize is 150.00GB, but df -h
> only
> > > shows the following:
> > >
> > > [root at linux-fs2 home]# df -h
> > > Filesystem            Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
> > > /dev/hda1             9.7G  1.7G  7.5G  19% /
> > > none                  252M     0  252M   0% /dev/shm
> > > /dev/mapper/VolGroup00-LogVol00
> > >                         18G  4.5G   13G  27% /home
> > >
> > > I'm on the howto from tldp
> > > (http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO/index.html) now trying to
> figure
> > > out what I've missed, but would appreciate any gentle nudges in the
> > > right direction.
> > >
> > > nathan
> > >
> > > --
> > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ale mailing list
> > > Ale at ale.org
> > > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> 
> !DSPAM:41f51a5f241461961012951!
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 24 11:36:33 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon Jan 24 11:36:33 2005
Subject: [ale] Seeking LVM presentation [ was: LVM - Can't add new drive?]
In-Reply-To: <1106583447.16329.97.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
References: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF043D7C3F@germanium.numethods.com>
	<1106583447.16329.97.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <1106584248.14417.3.camel@blue>

On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 11:17 -0500, James P. Kinney III wrote:

> I thought we were getting an Astrisk talk for Feb? :(

Hey, that would be nice.

I wonder if Mark himself would present if we covered reasonable travel
costs and guaranteed a certain number of attendees.

Hey Mark... remember that lunch I bought ya?  :-)

-Jim P.




From jloden at toughguy.net  Mon Jan 24 11:57:59 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Mon Jan 24 11:57:59 2005
Subject: [ale] debian acpi module errors, framebuffer
In-Reply-To: <1106570497.9100.6.camel@blue>
References: <200501240246.48116.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<1106570497.9100.6.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <200501241151.51355.jloden@toughguy.net>

Will I need acpi for battery/power management for the laptop though?

On Monday 24 January 2005 07:41 am, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> Hi Jay,
>
> Try disabling acpi in your kernel boot process.  To test this just add
> acpi=off on the end of your lilo or grub boot sequence.  In grub, just
> highlight the boot line and press 'e' to edit or 'p' to enter a password
> if you set grub up with one.
>
> -Jim P.


From ble at pcc.edu  Mon Jan 24 12:02:20 2005
From: ble at pcc.edu (Ben Le)
Date: Mon Jan 24 12:02:20 2005
Subject: [ale] This list is flooding with messages
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20050124084157.00c38428@mail.pcc.edu>

I am new with this Linux list. I know this list is very helpful for Linux 
users. However, have all of you noticed that this list is flooding with 
messages and most of the messages have nothing to do with Linux? For 
example, this list lately is flooding with hundred of messages about phone 
services and ISP (comcast, Qwest, Bellsouth...) that has nothing to do with 
Linux. I would recommend to post the questions only on this list. The 
answer will need to send directly to the question's owner instead to the 
list (to prevent hundred of answers and flooding the list). The question's 
owner is responsible to put the good answers together and post it to the 
list as a 'summary'. After the 'summary' is posted, the subject is closed. 
This is the way most of professional user list is using such as HP-UX user 
group list. May be it just only me, I would love too, but I can't go 
through all the messages of this list every days, it is just too many. Thanks.

Ben


__________________________________________
Benjamin Le
Sr. Systems Administrator
Information Technology Services
Portland Community College
Voice:(503)-977-4736   Fax:(503)-977-8124
Mailto:ble at pcc.edu           http://www.pcc.edu
-------------- next part --------------
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From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 24 12:04:39 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon Jan 24 12:04:39 2005
Subject: [ale] debian acpi module errors, framebuffer
In-Reply-To: <200501241151.51355.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <200501240246.48116.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<1106570497.9100.6.camel@blue> <200501241151.51355.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <1106585941.14417.11.camel@blue>

On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 11:51 -0500, Jay Loden wrote:
> Will I need acpi for battery/power management for the laptop though?

What kind of laptop?  Chances are APM will do just fine.  ACPI is newer,
but not as stable as APM.

-Jim P.

> 
> On Monday 24 January 2005 07:41 am, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> > Hi Jay,
> >
> > Try disabling acpi in your kernel boot process.  To test this just add
> > acpi=off on the end of your lilo or grub boot sequence.  In grub, just
> > highlight the boot line and press 'e' to edit or 'p' to enter a password
> > if you set grub up with one.
> >
> > -Jim P.
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Mon Jan 24 12:06:21 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Mon Jan 24 12:06:21 2005
Subject: [ale] debian acpi module errors, framebuffer
In-Reply-To: <200501241151.51355.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <200501240246.48116.jloden@toughguy.net>	<1106570497.9100.6.camel@blue>
	<200501241151.51355.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <41F529F1.6020406@3times25.net>

Jay Loden wrote:
> Will I need acpi for battery/power management for the laptop though?

Very likely, problem is, support is spotting and some hardware support 
is flakey.

Seems like it's getting better as I move up the 2.6 kernel releases.


-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From scherrey at proteus-tech.com  Mon Jan 24 12:09:38 2005
From: scherrey at proteus-tech.com (Benjamin Scherrey)
Date: Mon Jan 24 12:09:38 2005
Subject: [ale] This list is flooding with messages
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050124084157.00c38428@mail.pcc.edu>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050124084157.00c38428@mail.pcc.edu>
Message-ID: <41F52AC1.3060701@proteus-tech.com>

Ben,

    Welcome to the list. Obviously you are new otherwise you wouldn't 
call us a professional list! I personally haven't enjoyed the recent 
banter about the local Bellsouth issues (especially since my actual 
linux question about Apache/ssh proxies was ignored) BUT - it *is* the 
ATLANTA Linux Enthusiests group list and local internet connectivity is 
a BIG issue for linux users here so it fits our more wider definition 
fairly well I think. As far as your suggestion about this being a 
questions only list with the requester posting  a summary of replies I 
can just say BAAWW HAHAHAHAHAA!!! I mean that in a nice way though. You 
just don't know us very well... give it some time and you'll laugh too.
   
    best regards,

          Ben Scherrey

Ben Le wrote:

> I am new with this Linux list. I know this list is very helpful for 
> Linux users. However, have all of you noticed that this list is 
> flooding with messages and most of the messages have nothing to do 
> with Linux? For example, this list lately is flooding with hundred of 
> messages about phone services and ISP (comcast, Qwest, Bellsouth...) 
> that has nothing to do with Linux. I would recommend to post the 
> questions only on this list. The answer will need to send directly to 
> the question's owner instead to the list (to prevent hundred of 
> answers and flooding the list). The question's owner is responsible to 
> put the good answers together and post it to the list as a 'summary'. 
> After the 'summary' is posted, the subject is closed. This is the way 
> most of professional user list is using such as HP-UX user group list. 
> May be it just only me, I would love too, but I can't go through all 
> the messages of this list every days, it is just too many. Thanks.
>
> Ben
>
> *__________________________________________
> **Benjamin Le
> Sr. Systems Administrator
> Information Technology Services
> Portland Community College
> Voice:(503)-977-4736   Fax:(503)-977-8124
> Mailto:ble at pcc.edu <mailto:ble at pcc.edu>           http://www.pcc.edu 
> <http://www.pcc.edu/>*
>


From jrickman at gmail.com  Mon Jan 24 12:13:27 2005
From: jrickman at gmail.com (Jonathan Rickman)
Date: Mon Jan 24 12:13:27 2005
Subject: [ale] This list is flooding with messages
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050124084157.00c38428@mail.pcc.edu>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050124084157.00c38428@mail.pcc.edu>
Message-ID: <2802c522050124090813a12794@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 08:57:35 -0800, Ben Le <ble at pcc.edu> wrote:
>  I am new with this Linux list.

Nuff said. Stick around a while before you start suggesting changes.
This is a community, not a live Linux FAQ.

--
Jonathan


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Mon Jan 24 12:15:01 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Mon Jan 24 12:15:01 2005
Subject: [ale] This list is flooding with messages
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050124084157.00c38428@mail.pcc.edu>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050124084157.00c38428@mail.pcc.edu>
Message-ID: <41F52BC1.30009@3times25.net>

Ben Le wrote:
> I am new with this Linux list. I know this list is very helpful for 
> Linux users. However, have all of you noticed that this list is flooding 
> with messages and most of the messages have nothing to do with Linux? 
> For example, this list lately is flooding with hundred of messages about 
> phone services and ISP (comcast, Qwest, Bellsouth...) that has nothing 
> to do with Linux....

As one of the guilty parties on the thread you're referring to, I'll 
share with you that this will happen every now and again on this list. 
It's not the norm.  But, because it is a localized list, that is, 
primary members are in the Atlanta, GA area, you'll find there's more of 
a social environment on this list then many of the larger global lists.

That being said, you'll also find that this list does contain a number 
of highly skilled Linux users and should find it a great resource.

I'll apologize for the off topic thread, but can't guarantee it'll be 
the last.  Many of the folks on this list not only post to the list, but 
also attend one of the three meetings held monthly in the Atlanta area. 
  This why you often time see postings that demonstrate more social 
presence then most lists.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From fletch at phydeaux.org  Mon Jan 24 12:16:41 2005
From: fletch at phydeaux.org (fletch at phydeaux.org)
Date: Mon Jan 24 12:16:41 2005
Subject: [ale] This list is flooding with messages
In-Reply-To: <41F52AC1.3060701@proteus-tech.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050124084157.00c38428@mail.pcc.edu>
	<41F52AC1.3060701@proteus-tech.com>
Message-ID: <62762.24.98.129.46.1106586730.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org>


> As far as your suggestion about this being a
> questions only list with the requester posting  a summary of replies I
> can just say BAAWW HAHAHAHAHAA!!! I mean that in a nice way though. You
> just don't know us very well... give it some time and you'll laugh too.

Yeah, ALE ne sun-managers for sure.

(Of course this triggeres an evil impulse to start up a reply-to list
thread again . . . :)

-- 
Fletch                | "If you find my answers frightening,       __`'/|
fletch at phydeaux.org|  Vincent, you should cease askin'          \ o.O'
                      |  scary questions." -- Jules                =(___)=
                      |                                               U


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Mon Jan 24 12:18:04 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Mon Jan 24 12:18:04 2005
Subject: [ale] This list is flooding with messages
In-Reply-To: <2802c522050124090813a12794@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050124084157.00c38428@mail.pcc.edu>
	<2802c522050124090813a12794@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41F52CBE.4020003@3times25.net>

Jonathan Rickman wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 08:57:35 -0800, Ben Le <ble at pcc.edu> wrote:
> 
>> I am new with this Linux list.
> 
> 
> Nuff said. Stick around a while before you start suggesting changes.
> This is a community, not a live Linux FAQ.

Come on Jonathan, go easy on the new guy. :)  Jonathan and Benjamin's 
posts are relatively accurate though Ben.  Stick around a while and 
you'll get the flavor of the list.  I assure you, you'll find the noise 
ratio is really not all that bad and there are some really sharp folks 
on the list.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Mon Jan 24 12:19:08 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Mon Jan 24 12:19:08 2005
Subject: [ale] This list is flooding with messages
In-Reply-To: <62762.24.98.129.46.1106586730.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050124084157.00c38428@mail.pcc.edu>	<41F52AC1.3060701@proteus-tech.com>
	<62762.24.98.129.46.1106586730.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org>
Message-ID: <41F52CF2.2040306@3times25.net>

fletch at phydeaux.org wrote:
>>As far as your suggestion about this being a
>>questions only list with the requester posting  a summary of replies I
>>can just say BAAWW HAHAHAHAHAA!!! I mean that in a nice way though. You
>>just don't know us very well... give it some time and you'll laugh too.
> 
> 
> Yeah, ALE ne sun-managers for sure.
> 
> (Of course this triggeres an evil impulse to start up a reply-to list
> thread again . . . :)
>

Hitler. :)


-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From ble at pcc.edu  Mon Jan 24 12:21:37 2005
From: ble at pcc.edu (Ben Le)
Date: Mon Jan 24 12:21:37 2005
Subject: [ale] Subject Closed - This list is flooding with messages
In-Reply-To: <41F52BC1.30009@3times25.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050124084157.00c38428@mail.pcc.edu>
	<5.1.0.14.2.20050124084157.00c38428@mail.pcc.edu>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20050124091407.02e2fa40@mail.pcc.edu>

OK! now I know what is the purpose of this list for. My HP Linux instructor 
was wrong about this list. This subject is closed to prevent further 
flooding email traffic. Thanks for verification.

Ben

At 12:09 PM 1/24/2005 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
>Ben Le wrote:
>>I am new with this Linux list. I know this list is very helpful for Linux 
>>users. However, have all of you noticed that this list is flooding with 
>>messages and most of the messages have nothing to do with Linux? For 
>>example, this list lately is flooding with hundred of messages about 
>>phone services and ISP (comcast, Qwest, Bellsouth...) that has nothing to 
>>do with Linux....
>
>As one of the guilty parties on the thread you're referring to, I'll share 
>with you that this will happen every now and again on this list. It's not 
>the norm.  But, because it is a localized list, that is, primary members 
>are in the Atlanta, GA area, you'll find there's more of a social 
>environment on this list then many of the larger global lists.
>
>That being said, you'll also find that this list does contain a number of 
>highly skilled Linux users and should find it a great resource.
>
>I'll apologize for the off topic thread, but can't guarantee it'll be the 
>last.  Many of the folks on this list not only post to the list, but also 
>attend one of the three meetings held monthly in the Atlanta area.  This 
>why you often time see postings that demonstrate more social presence then 
>most lists.
>
>--
>Until later, Geoffrey
>_______________________________________________
>Ale mailing list
>Ale at ale.org
>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

__________________________________________
Benjamin Le
Sr. Systems Administrator
Information Technology Services
Portland Community College
Voice:(503)-977-4736   Fax:(503)-977-8124
Mailto:ble at pcc.edu           http://www.pcc.edu
-------------- next part --------------
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From ble at pcc.edu  Mon Jan 24 12:22:48 2005
From: ble at pcc.edu (Ben Le)
Date: Mon Jan 24 12:22:48 2005
Subject: [ale] Subject Closed - This list is flooding with messages
In-Reply-To: <41F52BC1.30009@3times25.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050124084157.00c38428@mail.pcc.edu>
	<5.1.0.14.2.20050124084157.00c38428@mail.pcc.edu>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20050124091407.02e2fa40@mail.pcc.edu>

OK! now I know what is the purpose of this list for. My HP Linux instructor 
was wrong about this list. This subject is closed to prevent further 
flooding email traffic. Thanks for verification.

Ben

At 12:09 PM 1/24/2005 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
>Ben Le wrote:
>>I am new with this Linux list. I know this list is very helpful for Linux 
>>users. However, have all of you noticed that this list is flooding with 
>>messages and most of the messages have nothing to do with Linux? For 
>>example, this list lately is flooding with hundred of messages about 
>>phone services and ISP (comcast, Qwest, Bellsouth...) that has nothing to 
>>do with Linux....
>
>As one of the guilty parties on the thread you're referring to, I'll share 
>with you that this will happen every now and again on this list. It's not 
>the norm.  But, because it is a localized list, that is, primary members 
>are in the Atlanta, GA area, you'll find there's more of a social 
>environment on this list then many of the larger global lists.
>
>That being said, you'll also find that this list does contain a number of 
>highly skilled Linux users and should find it a great resource.
>
>I'll apologize for the off topic thread, but can't guarantee it'll be the 
>last.  Many of the folks on this list not only post to the list, but also 
>attend one of the three meetings held monthly in the Atlanta area.  This 
>why you often time see postings that demonstrate more social presence then 
>most lists.
>
>--
>Until later, Geoffrey
>_______________________________________________
>Ale mailing list
>Ale at ale.org
>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

__________________________________________
Benjamin Le
Sr. Systems Administrator
Information Technology Services
Portland Community College
Voice:(503)-977-4736   Fax:(503)-977-8124
Mailto:ble at pcc.edu           http://www.pcc.edu
-------------- next part --------------
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From greg.freemyer at gmail.com  Mon Jan 24 12:23:42 2005
From: greg.freemyer at gmail.com (Greg Freemyer)
Date: Mon Jan 24 12:23:42 2005
Subject: [ale] This list is flooding with messages
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050124084157.00c38428@mail.pcc.edu>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050124084157.00c38428@mail.pcc.edu>
Message-ID: <87f94c3705012409182a32fa48@mail.gmail.com>

Ben,

I'm familiar with the "professional" lists you talk about.

They have there place, but I don't think it is what ALE is trying to
accomplish with this list.

Instead, I believe this list is an effort to build a community of
Linux users.  Fortunately this community has some very smart people
with lots of experience, but again the goal seems to be to build the
community.

I think you would be better served asking about e-mail clients that
more efficiently handle threaded discussions.


ie., does your e-mail client support e-mail threading?

For instance, the recent thread about comcast and static IPs.  I have
not read, but it is only showing up on my e-mail client as one line
entry with 41 sub-messages.  I can delete all 41 messages with a
single "move to trash" command.

"		Jim .. Christopher (41)	 	 [ale] comcast static IP?  - There is one
specific advantage to using the "middle man" for tech support; his
direct ?"

The above is using gmail and its online GUI.

FYI: a couple gmail short-comings in my book:

1) Once a thread is deleted, future messages on the same thread are
not automatically deleted.

2) By default, replies have the previous sender's e-mail address in
them (I try to manually delete them, but it is easy to forget.)

3) "Move to trash" is not a simple to use button, but instead resides
on a pull-down.

Greg
--
Greg Freemyer


On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 08:57:35 -0800, Ben Le wrote:
>  I am new with this Linux list. I know this list is very helpful for Linux
> users. However, have all of you noticed that this list is flooding with
> messages and most of the messages have nothing to do with Linux? For
> example, this list lately is flooding with hundred of messages about phone
> services and ISP (comcast, Qwest, Bellsouth...) that has nothing to do with
> Linux. I would recommend to post the questions only on this list. The answer
> will need to send directly to the question's owner instead to the list (to
> prevent hundred of answers and flooding the list). The question's owner is
> responsible to put the good answers together and post it to the list as a
> 'summary'. After the 'summary' is posted, the subject is closed. This is the
> way most of professional user list is using such as HP-UX user group list.
> May be it just only me, I would love too, but I can't go through all the
> messages of this list every days, it is just too many. Thanks.
> 
>  Ben
> 
>  
> 
>  __________________________________________
>  Benjamin Le
>  Sr. Systems Administrator
>  Information Technology Services
>  Portland Community College
>  Voice:(503)-977-4736   Fax:(503)-977-8124
>  Mailto:ble at pcc.edu           http://www.pcc.edu 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
>


From jloden at toughguy.net  Mon Jan 24 12:39:05 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Mon Jan 24 12:39:05 2005
Subject: [ale] debian acpi module errors, framebuffer
In-Reply-To: <1106585941.14417.11.camel@blue>
References: <200501240246.48116.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<200501241151.51355.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<1106585941.14417.11.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <200501241232.44266.jloden@toughguy.net>

Thinpad i1300 - I had no problems with power management under Mepis Linux or 
Slackware, but I believe it may have been APM...how can I use APM and make 
sure it's working?
-Jay

On Monday 24 January 2005 11:59 am, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 11:51 -0500, Jay Loden wrote:
> > Will I need acpi for battery/power management for the laptop though?
>
> What kind of laptop?  Chances are APM will do just fine.  ACPI is newer,
> but not as stable as APM.
>
> -Jim P.
>
> > On Monday 24 January 2005 07:41 am, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> > > Hi Jay,
> > >
> > > Try disabling acpi in your kernel boot process.  To test this just add
> > > acpi=off on the end of your lilo or grub boot sequence.  In grub, just
> > > highlight the boot line and press 'e' to edit or 'p' to enter a
> > > password if you set grub up with one.
> > >
> > > -Jim P.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Mon Jan 24 12:51:54 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Mon Jan 24 12:51:54 2005
Subject: [ale] Subject Closed - This list is flooding with messages
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050124091407.02e2fa40@mail.pcc.edu>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050124084157.00c38428@mail.pcc.edu>	<5.1.0.14.2.20050124084157.00c38428@mail.pcc.edu>
	<5.1.0.14.2.20050124091407.02e2fa40@mail.pcc.edu>
Message-ID: <41F534AC.8010203@3times25.net>

Ben Le wrote:
> OK! now I know what is the purpose of this list for. My HP Linux 
> instructor was wrong about this list. This subject is closed to prevent 
> further flooding email traffic. Thanks for verification.

Oh yeah, by the way, welcome to the list. :)

Are you in the Atlanta area?

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Mon Jan 24 12:55:24 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Mon Jan 24 12:55:24 2005
Subject: [ale] debian acpi module errors, framebuffer
In-Reply-To: <200501241232.44266.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <200501240246.48116.jloden@toughguy.net>	<200501241151.51355.jloden@toughguy.net>	<1106585941.14417.11.camel@blue>
	<200501241232.44266.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <41F53574.3050405@3times25.net>

Jay Loden wrote:
> Thinpad i1300 - I had no problems with power management under Mepis Linux or 
> Slackware, but I believe it may have been APM...how can I use APM and make 
> sure it's working?

Not a Debian person, but when you boot you pass parms to your boot process:

acpi=off apm=on

If you're using grub, you can add them to your menu.lst/grub.conf file.

I'm sure you can add them to a lilo.conf, but I've not played with lilo 
in a while.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 24 12:59:14 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon Jan 24 12:59:14 2005
Subject: [ale] debian acpi module errors, framebuffer
In-Reply-To: <200501241232.44266.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <200501240246.48116.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<200501241151.51355.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<1106585941.14417.11.camel@blue>
	<200501241232.44266.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <1106589224.2512.3.camel@blue>

On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 12:32 -0500, Jay Loden wrote:
> Thinpad i1300 - I had no problems with power management under Mepis Linux or 
> Slackware, but I believe it may have been APM...how can I use APM and make 
> sure it's working?
> -Jay

I would just add acpi=off to your kernel boot line.  That should solve
your problems.  My experiences with Thinkpads (typing on one right now)
is that APM works, ACPI doesn't.

Once you boot, just "cat /proc/apm" and you should see some battery
status numbers.

-Jim P.

> 
> On Monday 24 January 2005 11:59 am, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> > On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 11:51 -0500, Jay Loden wrote:
> > > Will I need acpi for battery/power management for the laptop though?
> >
> > What kind of laptop?  Chances are APM will do just fine.  ACPI is newer,
> > but not as stable as APM.
> >
> > -Jim P.
> >
> > > On Monday 24 January 2005 07:41 am, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> > > > Hi Jay,
> > > >
> > > > Try disabling acpi in your kernel boot process.  To test this just add
> > > > acpi=off on the end of your lilo or grub boot sequence.  In grub, just
> > > > highlight the boot line and press 'e' to edit or 'p' to enter a
> > > > password if you set grub up with one.
> > > >
> > > > -Jim P.
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ale mailing list
> > > Ale at ale.org
> > > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From mhirsch at nubridges.com  Mon Jan 24 13:08:41 2005
From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael Hirsch)
Date: Mon Jan 24 13:08:41 2005
Subject: [ale] Seeking LVM presentation [ was: LVM - Can't add new drive?]
Message-ID: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF043D7CA8@germanium.numethods.com>

Right you are!  I had forgotten, for fortunately, before I forgot I put
it on the ALE twiki server:
http://tomshiro.org/cgi-bin/twiki/view/ALE/ScheduledSpeakers

I'm still interested in the topic of LVM, but the need is not urgent.
We have at least two months of speakers.  Three, if Aaron is really
going to be ready by April.  ;-)

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
James
> P. Kinney III
> Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 11:17 AM
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [ale] Seeking LVM presentation [ was: LVM - Can't add new
> drive?]
> 
> On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 10:40 -0500, Michael Hirsch wrote:
> > This might be a good time to extend a general invitation to give a
> > presentation on LVM.  LVM is a tool that many casual users don't
know
> > much about, but it should be in our bag of tricks.  So, if you use
VLM,
> > please consider volunteering to present it to the rest of us.
> >
> > ALE Central has no speaker for February, and later dates are
available
> > too.  Email me to schedule your talk.
> 
> I thought we were getting an Astrisk talk for Feb? :(
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf
Of
> > Kent
> > > Pirkle
> > > Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2005 1:26 PM
> > > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> > > Subject: Re: [ale] LVM - Can't add new drive?
> > >
> > > Once you've extended the logical volume, you need to extend the
> > > filesystem as well, using either resize2fs or ext2online (to
resize
> > > without unmounting).b
> > >
> > > If you want to shrink a logical volume, always shrink the
filesystem
> > > first, then the lv.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 13:00:08 -0500, Nathan J. Underwood
> > > <ale1 at cybertechcafe.net> wrote:
> > > > I have an FC3 box with a single 30GB drive.  When I built the
box, I
> > > > knew that I would need more than the 30GB for the /home
partition,
> > but
> > > > didn't have a larger drive at the time (had one, but it was in
use
> > in
> > > > the box that this box is replacing).  At any rate, I setup the
/home
> > > > partition to be an lvm partition.  I'm now to the point of
adding
> > the
> > > > new drive to the new machine, but I can't seem to get it to
'see'
> > that
> > > > new space.  I added the drive, and created (using fdisk) added
one
> > > > single 160GB lvm (type 8e) partition.  I then used vgextend to
add
> > that
> > > > drive to my volume group (VolGroup00, not creative, but that
wasn't
> > the
> > > > idea).  Then, I did lvextend -L 100G /dev/VolGroup00/LogVol00,
and
> > got
> > > > no errors.  lvdisplay shows that the LVSize is 150.00GB, but df
-h
> > only
> > > > shows the following:
> > > >
> > > > [root at linux-fs2 home]# df -h
> > > > Filesystem            Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
> > > > /dev/hda1             9.7G  1.7G  7.5G  19% /
> > > > none                  252M     0  252M   0% /dev/shm
> > > > /dev/mapper/VolGroup00-LogVol00
> > > >                         18G  4.5G   13G  27% /home
> > > >
> > > > I'm on the howto from tldp
> > > > (http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/LVM-HOWTO/index.html) now trying to
> > figure
> > > > out what I've missed, but would appreciate any gentle nudges in
the
> > > > right direction.
> > > >
> > > > nathan
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > > > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date:
1/21/2005
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Ale mailing list
> > > > Ale at ale.org
> > > > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ale mailing list
> > > Ale at ale.org
> > > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> >
> >
> > !DSPAM:41f51a5f241461961012951!
> --
> James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
> CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
> Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
> 770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
> http://www.localnetsolutions.com
> 
> GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
> <jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
> Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7



From mhirsch at nubridges.com  Mon Jan 24 13:11:46 2005
From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael Hirsch)
Date: Mon Jan 24 13:11:46 2005
Subject: [ale] "easy to use" database
Message-ID: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF043D7CAB@germanium.numethods.com>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
Greg
> Freemyer
> Sent: Friday, January 21, 2005 6:13 PM
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [ale] "easy to use" database
> 
> On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 19:30:47 -0500, Jeff Hubbs <hbbs at comcast.net>
wrote:
> > That kind of ordered-data thing sounds like something you could do
in
> > Zope without even doing any real coding.
> >
> > Jeff
> 
> Not knowing anything about Zope, would it be a good choice to develop
> a simple database entry screen that could be used internally by about
> 5 of us.  Learning curve and multi-user aspects across the LAN are my
> two main concerns.
> 
> The database itself could be anything (MySQL, etc.), and will likely
> only have a couple thousand entries for a long time.  (I assume Zope
> is just a front-end).

Zope can be used as a front end for many databases, but it include
within it the zdb, an object database written in python.

I suspect that Jeff is right about it being easy to do with Zope, but
that presupposes that you know a little Zope.  Back when I was playing
with Zope, it was kinda confusing to get started, but it is very
powerful and cool.

Michael


From ale1 at cybertechcafe.net  Mon Jan 24 13:36:33 2005
From: ale1 at cybertechcafe.net (Nathan J. Underwood)
Date: Mon Jan 24 13:36:33 2005
Subject: [ale] phpgroupware & Global Addressbook
In-Reply-To: <41ED4280.50309@geekrus.net>
References: <41ED37E9.6090100@cybertechcafe.net> <41ED4280.50309@geekrus.net>
Message-ID: <41F53F0E.9060705@cybertechcafe.net>

Ok, made the switch to eGroupware (which seems to be much more mature 
than phpGroupware), but I'm still having some trouble understanding the 
ACL's.  I'd like to find a way to have a big calendar that everyone has 
access to, and then the private calendars (easy enough so far), but also 
group calendars (i.e. that not everyone could see / edit).  We've found 
a way to do it with appointments, but not yet with just calendar events 
(i.e. events that we don't invite attendees to).  We're looking for 
pretty much the same thing with the addressbook, but it doesn't seem to 
be as critical.

--
registered linux user # 73046

Nathan J. Underwood
Cyber Tech Cafe' <><
http://www.cybertechcafe.net

Brandon Colbert wrote:
> Nathan J. Underwood wrote:
> 
>> We are still in the process of upgrading from MS + Exchange solution 
>> to an open source solution.  To do this, we're looking into 
>> phpgroupware (I believe someone here recommended it [thanks, by the 
>> way]).  We are having trouble finding a way to do a couple of things 
>> though.  The current issue is with a shared address book.  Ideally, 
>> anytime a new user was added to phpgroupware, their contact info would 
>> be available to everyone in the 'everyone' group to view, and some 
>> would be able to edit.  Currently though, it looks as if it's setup to 
>> just have a bunch of personal addressbooks.  I'm googling (isn't it 
>> weird how that's a verb now), but I'm not having a lot of success.  
>> Has anyone else figured this out?  If so, care to shoot me a link to 
>> the docs that helped you figure it out?  Many thanks.
>>
>> I'm running the following:
>> Fedora Core 3
>> Apache 2.0.52
>> MySQL 3.23.58
>> phpGroup Ware 0.9.16.005
> 
> 
> I don't know if this applies to groupware, but in egroupware the admin 
> can set "rwx" access by groups. Check those settings. The way I 
> implemented egroupware is by creating groups and assigned modules to 
> that group. Then I added users, and placed them in their respected groups.


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 24 13:44:05 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Mon Jan 24 13:44:05 2005
Subject: [ale] This list is flooding with messages
In-Reply-To: <41F52AC1.3060701@proteus-tech.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.63.1106592244.18563.ale@ale.org>

Yeah, I have to second that.  

This is an unmoderated list.  Unlike, for instance, the DC area SAGE group,
(they have dc-sage which is moderated for Q/A only and dc-sage-chat for
everything else) absolutely everything hits this list.

I just got back onto the list in April (I think) and trashed something like
6000 messages a month ago.  You can expect very high volume, but a very high
level of knowledge and experience on this list.  Also, you'll find lots of
networking opportunities should you ever be in the market for a job.

I'd just sit back and pay attention to the topics that you like, and ignore
the ones that don't apply.

Jerald M. Sheets jr.
Sr. UNIX Systems Administrator
McKesson, Inc.
(404) 293-8762
**********
>su -
Password:
# cat /dev/flood > /dev/earth
# rdev noah+beasts
# dd if=noah+beasts of=/dev/earth

PGP Key: 0x6267F183
BLOG:  http://www.jeraldsheets.com

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GIT d+ s++: a C++++ UL++++ P++ L+++ E--- W++ N+ o-- K+ w-- 
O M+ V PS- PE++ Y+ PGP++ t++ 5++ X+ R* tv- b+ DI++++ D++ 
G+ e h---- r+++ y++++ 
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK----- 

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Benjamin
Scherrey
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 12:05 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] This list is flooding with messages

Ben,

    Welcome to the list. Obviously you are new otherwise you wouldn't call
us a professional list! I personally haven't enjoyed the recent banter about
the local Bellsouth issues (especially since my actual linux question about
Apache/ssh proxies was ignored) BUT - it *is* the ATLANTA Linux Enthusiests
group list and local internet connectivity is a BIG issue for linux users
here so it fits our more wider definition fairly well I think. As far as
your suggestion about this being a questions only list with the requester
posting  a summary of replies I can just say BAAWW HAHAHAHAHAA!!! I mean
that in a nice way though. You just don't know us very well... give it some
time and you'll laugh too.
   
    best regards,

          Ben Scherrey

Ben Le wrote:

> I am new with this Linux list. I know this list is very helpful for 
> Linux users. However, have all of you noticed that this list is 
> flooding with messages and most of the messages have nothing to do 
> with Linux? For example, this list lately is flooding with hundred of 
> messages about phone services and ISP (comcast, Qwest, Bellsouth...) 
> that has nothing to do with Linux. I would recommend to post the 
> questions only on this list. The answer will need to send directly to 
> the question's owner instead to the list (to prevent hundred of 
> answers and flooding the list). The question's owner is responsible to 
> put the good answers together and post it to the list as a 'summary'.
> After the 'summary' is posted, the subject is closed. This is the way 
> most of professional user list is using such as HP-UX user group list.
> May be it just only me, I would love too, but I can't go through all 
> the messages of this list every days, it is just too many. Thanks.
>
> Ben
>
> *__________________________________________
> **Benjamin Le
> Sr. Systems Administrator
> Information Technology Services
> Portland Community College
> Voice:(503)-977-4736   Fax:(503)-977-8124
> Mailto:ble at pcc.edu <mailto:ble at pcc.edu>           http://www.pcc.edu 
> <http://www.pcc.edu/>*
>

_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 1/21/2005
 

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.3 - Release Date: 1/24/2005
 


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 24 13:46:02 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Mon Jan 24 13:46:02 2005
Subject: [ale] Subject Closed - This list is flooding with messages
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050124091407.02e2fa40@mail.pcc.edu>
Message-ID: <mailman.64.1106592361.18563.ale@ale.org>

wow, dude....  no need for the attitude.

   _____  

From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Ben Le
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 12:17 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts; Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] Subject Closed - This list is flooding with messages


OK! now I know what is the purpose of this list for. My HP Linux instructor
was wrong about this list. This subject is closed to prevent further
flooding email traffic. Thanks for verification.

Ben



-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.3 - Release Date: 1/24/2005
 
-------------- next part --------------
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From jasonday at worldnet.att.net  Mon Jan 24 14:07:16 2005
From: jasonday at worldnet.att.net (Jason Day)
Date: Mon Jan 24 14:07:16 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <1106520314.2545.17.camel@blue>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>
	<200501231317.35680.drifter@oppositelock.org>
	<1106506972.25997.14.camel@blue>
	<200501231559.29737.drifter@oppositelock.org>
	<1106515068.2548.16.camel@blue>
	<1106518900.18682.3.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
	<1106520314.2545.17.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <20050124190246.GH7913@worldnet.att.net>

On Sun, Jan 23, 2005 at 05:45:13PM -0500, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> Basically an external provider has no means of enforcing terms of
> service within my premises where they have no legal authority to
> determine what equipment I have.  Just because someone puts words into a
> document and calls it "Terms of Service" in no way establishes authority
> to enforce said words.

HAH!!  You're kidding right?  Have you never even looked at a software
license?  I've used software before that required a dongle in the
printer port before it would work.  Didn't matter if the vendor had the
"right" to do that, or "legal authority to determine what equipment" I
had.  They had a technical means of enforcing their terms of service,
and they did so.

Of course, I had the option to reverse-engineer the dongle, or buy a
hacked dongle and violate the license agreement.  Current laws however
would make such activity illegal.  Just like it is currently illegal to
watch a DVD on a linux laptop.

The *only* reason that BellSouth, Comcast, etc. don't enforce the "home
networking" charge is because they have no technical means of doing so.
Whether thy have the "right" to enforce it does not matter.
-- 
Jason Day                                       jasonday at
http://jasonday.home.att.net                    worldnet dot att dot net
 
"Of course I'm paranoid, everyone is trying to kill me."
    -- Weyoun-6, Star Trek: Deep Space 9


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 24 14:18:50 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon Jan 24 14:18:50 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <20050124190246.GH7913@worldnet.att.net>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>
	<200501231317.35680.drifter@oppositelock.org>
	<1106506972.25997.14.camel@blue>
	<200501231559.29737.drifter@oppositelock.org>
	<1106515068.2548.16.camel@blue>
	<1106518900.18682.3.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
	<1106520314.2545.17.camel@blue>
	<20050124190246.GH7913@worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <1106594000.2512.14.camel@blue>

On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 14:02 -0500, Jason Day wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 23, 2005 at 05:45:13PM -0500, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> > Basically an external provider has no means of enforcing terms of
> > service within my premises where they have no legal authority to
> > determine what equipment I have.  Just because someone puts words into a
> > document and calls it "Terms of Service" in no way establishes authority
> > to enforce said words.
> 
> HAH!!  You're kidding right?  

No.  Please provide documented proof that dis-proves my point.

> Have you never even looked at a software license?  

Yes.  In fact I've written two in my lifetime too.  This issue however
is totally un-related to software licenses.  But, as in anything written
on paper, it is always open to interpretation and re-interpretation. 

> I've used software before that required a dongle in the
> printer port before it would work.  Didn't matter if the vendor had the
> "right" to do that, or "legal authority to determine what equipment" I
> had.  They had a technical means of enforcing their terms of service,
> and they did so.

What is Comcast's equivalent to your software dongle?

> Of course, I had the option to reverse-engineer the dongle, or buy a
> hacked dongle and violate the license agreement.  Current laws however
> would make such activity illegal.  

Yes they would.

> Just like it is currently illegal to watch a DVD on a linux laptop.

Show me the law.

> The *only* reason that BellSouth, Comcast, etc. don't enforce the "home
> networking" charge is because they have no technical means of doing so.

What you are interpreting as "home networking" is different from my home
network.  Comcast, et.al., sell "home networking" packages that
essentially are a hardware router and/or wifi router.  Neither of which
has anything to do with me having my own and using them regardless of
whether or not there is a broadband connection.  See, I see networks as
belonging to the property owner, not the IP supplier.  Your vantage
point may differ.

> Whether thy have the "right" to enforce it does not matter.

I'm guessing that you are not a lawyer. ;-)

-Jim P.






From hbbs at comcast.net  Mon Jan 24 14:20:16 2005
From: hbbs at comcast.net (Jeff Hubbs)
Date: Mon Jan 24 14:20:16 2005
Subject: [ale] Subject Closed - This list is flooding with messages
In-Reply-To: <1106592268.4540.1138.camel@juanita>
References: <1106592268.4540.1138.camel@juanita>
Message-ID: <1106594100.4540.1140.camel@juanita>

Oh, and be sure to appreciate our social skills!

On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 13:41, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> wow, dude....  no need for the attitude.
> 
> ______________________________________________________________________
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
> Ben Le
> Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 12:17 PM
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts; Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [ale] Subject Closed - This list is flooding with
> messages
> 
> 
> OK! now I know what is the purpose of this list for. My HP Linux
> instructor was wrong about this list. This subject is closed to
> prevent further flooding email traffic. Thanks for verification.
> 
> Ben
> 
> 
> 
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.3 - Release Date: 1/24/2005
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________________
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From jloden at toughguy.net  Mon Jan 24 14:21:27 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Mon Jan 24 14:21:27 2005
Subject: [ale] debian acpi module errors, framebuffer
In-Reply-To: <1106589224.2512.3.camel@blue>
References: <200501240246.48116.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<200501241232.44266.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<1106589224.2512.3.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <200501241413.51656.jloden@toughguy.net>

Well, that didnt work out too well.  I just disabled acpi, and rebooted and it 
hung on USB detection.  I had to reboot into failsafe and remove the acpi=off

Now what?

-Jay


On Monday 24 January 2005 12:53 pm, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> I would just add acpi=off to your kernel boot line.  That should solve
> your problems.  My experiences with Thinkpads (typing on one right now)
> is that APM works, ACPI doesn't.
>
> Once you boot, just "cat /proc/apm" and you should see some battery
> status numbers.
>
> -Jim P.
>


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 24 14:29:43 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon Jan 24 14:29:43 2005
Subject: [ale] debian acpi module errors, framebuffer
In-Reply-To: <200501241413.51656.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <200501240246.48116.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<200501241232.44266.jloden@toughguy.net> <1106589224.2512.3.camel@blue>
	<200501241413.51656.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <1106594639.2512.21.camel@blue>

On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 14:13 -0500, Jay Loden wrote:
> Well, that didnt work out too well.  I just disabled acpi, and rebooted and it 
> hung on USB detection.  I had to reboot into failsafe and remove the acpi=off

Are you using Debian Stable, Testing, or Unstable?

Did you use a 2.4 or 2.6 kernel? 

Do you have any USB devices plugged in?

Have you looked at some of these: 
   http://www.google.com?q=thinkpad+i1300+Debian
This one looks promising:
http://uhacc.org/~jcpunk/linux-on-laptops/ibm/thinkpad-i1300/i1300-install-guide.html

-Jim P.

> 
> Now what?
> 
> -Jay
> 
> 
> On Monday 24 January 2005 12:53 pm, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> > I would just add acpi=off to your kernel boot line.  That should solve
> > your problems.  My experiences with Thinkpads (typing on one right now)
> > is that APM works, ACPI doesn't.
> >
> > Once you boot, just "cat /proc/apm" and you should see some battery
> > status numbers.
> >
> > -Jim P.
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From barry at alltc.com  Mon Jan 24 14:31:01 2005
From: barry at alltc.com (Barry Hawkins)
Date: Mon Jan 24 14:31:01 2005
Subject: [ale] Webhosting Questions
In-Reply-To: <20050122222321.O46441-100000@m-net.arbornet.org>
References: <20050122222321.O46441-100000@m-net.arbornet.org>
Message-ID: <41F4DB5D.4050201@alltc.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

exo wrote:
| Hi,
|
| I am bit confused here.  I saw some posts here about domain name
| registering, regarding godaddy.com.  Well I got a domain from them.  But
| now the question comes for webhosting.  Domains is one thing, hosting is
| another issue.
[...]
Be sure to check out HostingMatters out of Jacksonville.  For the price
range others are referring to, they are hard to beat.  Their community
support forum is also quite good.  I think I mentioned them before the
last time we had a hosting thread.

[0] - http://www.hostmatters.com

- --
Barry Hawkins
All Things Computed
site: www.alltc.com
weblog: www.yepthatsme.com

Registered Linux User #368650
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFB9Ntd7bZ6kUftWZwRAvzYAJ9mTL5EtmL1zb2slK7MuDcnebVpJACfaVUR
5+Lh9yd8SHfXZ7pZqligyS0=
=MNGU
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From greg.freemyer at gmail.com  Mon Jan 24 14:32:18 2005
From: greg.freemyer at gmail.com (Greg Freemyer)
Date: Mon Jan 24 14:32:18 2005
Subject: [ale] Seeking LVM presentation [ was: LVM - Can't add new drive?]
In-Reply-To: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF043D7CA8@germanium.numethods.com>
References: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF043D7CA8@germanium.numethods.com>
Message-ID: <87f94c3705012411276c322333@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 13:04:09 -0500, Michael Hirsch
<mhirsch at nubridges.com> wrote:
> Right you are!  I had forgotten, for fortunately, before I forgot I put
> it on the ALE twiki server:
> http://tomshiro.org/cgi-bin/twiki/view/ALE/ScheduledSpeakers
> 
> I'm still interested in the topic of LVM, but the need is not urgent.
> We have at least two months of speakers.  Three, if Aaron is really
> going to be ready by April.  ;-)
> 
> Michael
> 
Looking at the WIKI entry, it looks like Asterik is a VOIP solution.

We've been thinking about switching our 10-man office to VOIP.

Does anyone know if the talk will address small business use of VOIP?

Greg
-- 
Greg Freemyer


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Mon Jan 24 14:36:50 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Mon Jan 24 14:36:50 2005
Subject: [ale] debian acpi module errors, framebuffer
In-Reply-To: <200501241413.51656.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <200501240246.48116.jloden@toughguy.net>	<200501241232.44266.jloden@toughguy.net>	<1106589224.2512.3.camel@blue>
	<200501241413.51656.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <41F54D46.3020705@3times25.net>

Jay Loden wrote:
> Well, that didnt work out too well.  I just disabled acpi, and
> rebooted and it hung on USB detection.  I had to reboot into failsafe
> and remove the acpi=off

Did you try 'acpi=off apm=on' ?

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jonathan.glass at oit.gatech.edu  Mon Jan 24 14:41:19 2005
From: jonathan.glass at oit.gatech.edu (Jonathan Glass)
Date: Mon Jan 24 14:41:19 2005
Subject: [ale] Position open at GT
Message-ID: <20050124193651.0C6523A608@mailprx5.gatech.edu>

https://ea.ohr.gatech.edu/FullDescription.asp?jobid=CEW4224&type=3&typeofjob
=ext&jobtitle=SYSTEMS%20SUPPORT%20SPEC%20II

I have nothing to do with this job posting.  I just thought it might be of
interest to someone on the list.

Thanks & HTH
--
Jonathan Glass
OIT - Information Security
Information Security Engineer III
Georgia Institute of Technology
Office: 404-385-6900
Cell: 404-444-4086


From mhirsch at nubridges.com  Mon Jan 24 14:49:08 2005
From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael Hirsch)
Date: Mon Jan 24 14:49:08 2005
Subject: [ale] Seeking LVM presentation [ was: LVM - Can't add new drive?]
Message-ID: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF043D7CE8@germanium.numethods.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
Greg
> Freemyer
> Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 2:28 PM
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [ale] Seeking LVM presentation [ was: LVM - Can't add new
> drive?]
> 
> On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 13:04:09 -0500, Michael Hirsch
> <mhirsch at nubridges.com> wrote:
> > Right you are!  I had forgotten, for fortunately, before I forgot I
put
> > it on the ALE twiki server:
> > http://tomshiro.org/cgi-bin/twiki/view/ALE/ScheduledSpeakers
> >
> > I'm still interested in the topic of LVM, but the need is not
urgent.
> > We have at least two months of speakers.  Three, if Aaron is really
> > going to be ready by April.  ;-)
> >
> > Michael
> >
> Looking at the WIKI entry, it looks like Asterik is a VOIP solution.
> 
> We've been thinking about switching our 10-man office to VOIP.
> 
> Does anyone know if the talk will address small business use of VOIP?

I suppose Dennis would know, but knowing him as I do, I expect it will
cover all the various capabilities of Asterisk from a technical
perspective.  I don't know what he might say about small businesses, in
particular, but I can't think of many technical issues a small business
would have that would differ from any other VOIP user's issues.

What kind of issues did you have in mind?

Michael


From tfreeman at intel.digichem.net  Mon Jan 24 14:54:22 2005
From: tfreeman at intel.digichem.net (tfreeman at intel.digichem.net)
Date: Mon Jan 24 14:54:22 2005
Subject: [ale] This list is flooding with messages
In-Reply-To: <41F52BC1.30009@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0501241432120.3556-100000@intel.digichem.net>

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005, Geoffrey wrote:

> Ben Le wrote:
<<snip>> 
> 
> I'll apologize for the off topic thread, but can't guarantee it'll be 
> the last. 
<<snip>>

Having been around this list for a few years, I'll almost guarantee this 
group will wander off topic again, and soon. 8-)

(No, I'm not suggesting somebody start an all consuming OT thread either. 
While occasionally somewhat informative, such are frequently dull for the 
innocent bystanders.)

YMMV, and hopefully will.
> 

-- 
=============================================
If you think Education is expensive
Try Ignorance
                   Author Unknown
============================================


From preston.boyington at mindspring.com  Mon Jan 24 15:06:57 2005
From: preston.boyington at mindspring.com (Preston Boyington)
Date: Mon Jan 24 15:06:57 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <1106594000.2512.14.camel@blue>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>	<200501231317.35680.drifter@oppositelock.org>	<1106506972.25997.14.camel@blue>	<200501231559.29737.drifter@oppositelock.org>	<1106515068.2548.16.camel@blue>	<1106518900.18682.3.camel@linux.linxdev.com>	<1106520314.2545.17.camel@blue>	<20050124190246.GH7913@worldnet.att.net>
	<1106594000.2512.14.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <41F55412.2070908@mindspring.com>

Jim Popovitch wrote:
  >>Just like it is currently illegal to watch a DVD on a linux laptop.
> 
> 
> Show me the law.
> 

I think he is talking about the DMCA.  Especially DeCSS and probably 
UNIVERSAL CITY v REIMERDES:

http://laws.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/printer_friendly.pl?page=2nd/009185.html

Basically this and other such documents (check the EFF site under 
"cases") states that it is illegal to play a DVD on any device that is 
"not approved".  This includes computers without "proper" DRM enabled 
software.

Currently the only way to play an ordinary (encrypted) DVD that you 
would rent from you neighborhood video store on Linux is by using DeCSS.

This violates the DMCA.
http://www.gseis.ucla.edu/iclp/dmca1.htm
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c105:H.R.2281.ENR:


From mike at tyderia.net  Mon Jan 24 15:08:22 2005
From: mike at tyderia.net (Mike Murphy)
Date: Mon Jan 24 15:08:22 2005
Subject: [ale] This list is flooding with messages
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0501241432120.3556-100000@intel.digichem.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0501241432120.3556-100000@intel.digichem.net>
Message-ID: <41F55402.6080001@tyderia.net>

So, I suppose a thread asking which distro would be best for a democrat 
to use to send microsoft sponsored spam advertising tech jobs in india 
enforcing the patriot act via a bellsouth dsl connection using addresses 
farmed from the ALE website would be a bad idea then?

Mike


tfreeman at intel.digichem.net wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Jan 2005, Geoffrey wrote:
> 
> 
>>Ben Le wrote:
> 
> <<snip>> 
> 
>>I'll apologize for the off topic thread, but can't guarantee it'll be 
>>the last. 
> 
> <<snip>>
> 
> Having been around this list for a few years, I'll almost guarantee this 
> group will wander off topic again, and soon. 8-)
> 
> (No, I'm not suggesting somebody start an all consuming OT thread either. 
> While occasionally somewhat informative, such are frequently dull for the 
> innocent bystanders.)
> 
> YMMV, and hopefully will.
> 
> 

-- 

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Mike Murphy
781 Inman Mews Drive Atlanta GA 30307
Landline: 404-653-1070
Mobile: 404-545-6234
Email: mike at tyderia.net
AIM: mmichael453
JDAM: 33:45:14.0584N  84:21:43.038W
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 24 15:20:19 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Mon Jan 24 15:20:19 2005
Subject: [ale] This list is flooding with messages
In-Reply-To: <41F55402.6080001@tyderia.net>
Message-ID: <mailman.65.1106598019.18563.ale@ale.org>

bwahaahaahaahaaaahaa 

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Mike
Murphy
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 3:01 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] This list is flooding with messages

So, I suppose a thread asking which distro would be best for a democrat to
use to send microsoft sponsored spam advertising tech jobs in india
enforcing the patriot act via a bellsouth dsl connection using addresses
farmed from the ALE website would be a bad idea then?

Mike


tfreeman at intel.digichem.net wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Jan 2005, Geoffrey wrote:
> 
> 
>>Ben Le wrote:
> 
> <<snip>>
> 
>>I'll apologize for the off topic thread, but can't guarantee it'll be 
>>the last.
> 
> <<snip>>
> 
> Having been around this list for a few years, I'll almost guarantee 
> this group will wander off topic again, and soon. 8-)
> 
> (No, I'm not suggesting somebody start an all consuming OT thread either. 
> While occasionally somewhat informative, such are frequently dull for 
> the innocent bystanders.)
> 
> YMMV, and hopefully will.
> 
> 

-- 

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Mike Murphy
781 Inman Mews Drive Atlanta GA 30307
Landline: 404-653-1070
Mobile: 404-545-6234
Email: mike at tyderia.net
AIM: mmichael453
JDAM: 33:45:14.0584N  84:21:43.038W
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.3 - Release Date: 1/24/2005
 

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.3 - Release Date: 1/24/2005
 


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 24 15:28:59 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon Jan 24 15:28:59 2005
Subject: [ale] This list is flooding with messages
In-Reply-To: <41F55402.6080001@tyderia.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0501241432120.3556-100000@intel.digichem.net>
	<41F55402.6080001@tyderia.net>
Message-ID: <1106598192.4477.11.camel@blue>

On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 15:01 -0500, Mike Murphy wrote:
> So, I suppose a thread asking which distro would be best for a democrat 
> to use to send microsoft sponsored spam advertising tech jobs in india 
> enforcing the patriot act via a bellsouth dsl connection using addresses 
> farmed from the ALE website would be a bad idea then?

Well of course it would be a bellsouth IP, Comcast blocks port 25.  :-)

-Jim P.




From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 24 15:32:00 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon Jan 24 15:32:00 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <41F55412.2070908@mindspring.com>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>
	<200501231317.35680.drifter@oppositelock.org>
	<1106506972.25997.14.camel@blue>
	<200501231559.29737.drifter@oppositelock.org>
	<1106515068.2548.16.camel@blue>
	<1106518900.18682.3.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
	<1106520314.2545.17.camel@blue>	<20050124190246.GH7913@worldnet.att.net>
	<1106594000.2512.14.camel@blue>  <41F55412.2070908@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <1106598374.4477.15.camel@blue>

On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 14:01 -0600, Preston Boyington wrote:
> Jim Popovitch wrote:
>
> I think he is talking about the DMCA.  Especially DeCSS and probably 
> UNIVERSAL CITY v REIMERDES:

I'm sure he was.  We all know the ins-outs of this case, so it is easy
for us to see through it.  Why some of those same people are blinded by
the issues surrounding the number of devices in their home is beyond me.

Seriously, does the power company care if you have more than 2
microwaves?  LOL!

-Jim P.





From preston.boyington at mindspring.com  Mon Jan 24 15:36:58 2005
From: preston.boyington at mindspring.com (Preston Boyington)
Date: Mon Jan 24 15:36:58 2005
Subject: [ale] This list is flooding with messages
In-Reply-To: <41F55402.6080001@tyderia.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0501241432120.3556-100000@intel.digichem.net>
	<41F55402.6080001@tyderia.net>
Message-ID: <41F55B1C.5000609@mindspring.com>

Mike Murphy wrote:
> So, I suppose a thread asking which distro would be best for a democrat 
> to use to send microsoft sponsored spam advertising tech jobs in india 
> enforcing the patriot act via a bellsouth dsl connection using addresses 
> farmed from the ALE website would be a bad idea then?
> 
> Mike
> 

I dunno, are you a H-1B?


From jrickman at gmail.com  Mon Jan 24 15:42:10 2005
From: jrickman at gmail.com (Jonathan Rickman)
Date: Mon Jan 24 15:42:10 2005
Subject: [ale] WebObjects/Java Developer Position
Message-ID: <2802c52205012412374fc2353c@mail.gmail.com>

Required skills

1) 2-3 years of Java development experience, preferably web apps.
2) Familiarity, preferably through actual use, with Apple WebObjects.
3) 5+ years total experience in web app dev preferred.
4) Microsoft ASP/ADO and MSSQL familiarity a plus, but not absolutely essential.
5) Other stuff that might be handy: PHP, MySQL, Zope, Oracle, Perl, XML

Job Description

Full time lead developer. Writes software on demand. Teaches other
people to write software too. Supervises and mentors one apprentice
programmer. Helps crotchety sysadmin make decisions related to the
deployment of said software. Quietly rewrites crotchety sysadmin's
code without making it obvious that it was total garbage to begin
with. Tests said software in every conceivable deployment scenario on
multiple platforms. Talks to customers and asks them what they want in
the software. Smiles a lot.

Compensation

Low 50s to mid 60s. Full benefits. Some telecommuting. 


Contact me off list for further details. 

--
Jonathan


From rsj at radio.org  Mon Jan 24 15:55:34 2005
From: rsj at radio.org (Randal Jarrett)
Date: Mon Jan 24 15:55:34 2005
Subject: [ale] UPS needs a new home
Message-ID: <1106599868.9126.21.camel@k4rsj.radio.org>



I have an AT&T 1KW/1500va ups that is in good shape that I don't want.

It is a nice upright box, like a small system.

It is like many others, it needs batteries. :-)

I'm going to dump it if I cannot find anyone that wants it.

I also have a couple of large (forklift needed) ones that I will send
info out about soon.

Randy


-- 
Randal Jarrett
RSJ Consulting, Inc
Lawrenceville, GA
(770) 822-1096




From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Mon Jan 24 16:02:03 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Mon Jan 24 16:02:03 2005
Subject: [ale] This list is flooding with messages
In-Reply-To: <41F55402.6080001@tyderia.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0501241432120.3556-100000@intel.digichem.net>
	<41F55402.6080001@tyderia.net>
Message-ID: <1106600242.16329.101.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>

On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 15:01 -0500, Mike Murphy wrote:
> So, I suppose a thread asking which distro would be best for a democrat 
> to use to send microsoft sponsored spam advertising tech jobs in india 
> enforcing the patriot act via a bellsouth dsl connection using addresses 
> farmed from the ALE website would be a bad idea then?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

I think you've about covered them all.

Beware the impending deluge ;)
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> tfreeman at intel.digichem.net wrote:
> > On Mon, 24 Jan 2005, Geoffrey wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >>Ben Le wrote:
> > 
> > <<snip>> 
> > 
> >>I'll apologize for the off topic thread, but can't guarantee it'll be 
> >>the last. 
> > 
> > <<snip>>
> > 
> > Having been around this list for a few years, I'll almost guarantee this 
> > group will wander off topic again, and soon. 8-)
> > 
> > (No, I'm not suggesting somebody start an all consuming OT thread either. 
> > While occasionally somewhat informative, such are frequently dull for the 
> > innocent bystanders.)
> > 
> > YMMV, and hopefully will.
> > 
> > 
> 
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From jrickman at gmail.com  Mon Jan 24 16:09:03 2005
From: jrickman at gmail.com (Jonathan Rickman)
Date: Mon Jan 24 16:09:03 2005
Subject: [ale] This list is flooding with messages
In-Reply-To: <1106600242.16329.101.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0501241432120.3556-100000@intel.digichem.net>
	<41F55402.6080001@tyderia.net>
	<1106600242.16329.101.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <2802c522050124130439f9827e@mail.gmail.com>

> I think you've about covered them all.
> 
> Beware the impending deluge ;)

I was going to start up a new thread on exactly that...but then I
realized that while I can reply to messages, I can't post new ones.
Can a list admin hook me up with a fix for this?

--
Jonathan "really wants his own subject line" Rickman


From hbbs at comcast.net  Mon Jan 24 16:10:06 2005
From: hbbs at comcast.net (Jeff Hubbs)
Date: Mon Jan 24 16:10:06 2005
Subject: [ale] UPS needs a new home
In-Reply-To: <1106599868.9126.21.camel@k4rsj.radio.org>
References: <1106599868.9126.21.camel@k4rsj.radio.org>
Message-ID: <1106600697.4540.1148.camel@juanita>

Randal -

Can I have it?  

Jeff
678 438 5999

On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 15:51, Randal Jarrett wrote:
> I have an AT&T 1KW/1500va ups that is in good shape that I don't want.
> 
> It is a nice upright box, like a small system.
> 
> It is like many others, it needs batteries. :-)
> 
> I'm going to dump it if I cannot find anyone that wants it.
> 
> I also have a couple of large (forklift needed) ones that I will send
> info out about soon.
> 
> Randy
> 


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 24 16:21:38 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Mon Jan 24 16:21:38 2005
Subject: [ale] This list is flooding with messages
In-Reply-To: <2802c522050124130439f9827e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.66.1106601697.18563.ale@ale.org>

<Mr Burns>

Exxxxccccellent.....  My plan has begun. 

</Mr Burns>


:-D

LOL


-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Jonathan
Rickman
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 4:04 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] This list is flooding with messages

...while I can reply to messages, I can't post new ones.....

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.3 - Release Date: 1/24/2005
 


From jloden at toughguy.net  Mon Jan 24 16:22:58 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Mon Jan 24 16:22:58 2005
Subject: [ale] debian acpi module errors, framebuffer
In-Reply-To: <1106594639.2512.21.camel@blue>
References: <200501240246.48116.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<200501241413.51656.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<1106594639.2512.21.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <200501241616.56085.jloden@toughguy.net>

Debian Testing, 2.6.8 kernel, no usb devices plugged in, 

and none of the links on google apply, even if they are actually about the 
same laptop, they apply to 2.4 series kernel, in which there were usb 
problems.  

Running Mepis kernel 2.6.7 or Slackware 2.4, I ran into no usb problems. 

-Jay

On Monday 24 January 2005 2:23, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 14:13 -0500, Jay Loden wrote:
> > Well, that didnt work out too well.  I just disabled acpi, and rebooted
> > and it hung on USB detection.  I had to reboot into failsafe and remove
> > the acpi=off
>
> Are you using Debian Stable, Testing, or Unstable?
>
> Did you use a 2.4 or 2.6 kernel?
>
> Do you have any USB devices plugged in?
>
> Have you looked at some of these:
>    http://www.google.com?q=thinkpad+i1300+Debian
> This one looks promising:
> http://uhacc.org/~jcpunk/linux-on-laptops/ibm/thinkpad-i1300/i1300-install-
>guide.html
>
> -Jim P.


From jasonday at worldnet.att.net  Mon Jan 24 16:28:58 2005
From: jasonday at worldnet.att.net (Jason Day)
Date: Mon Jan 24 16:28:58 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <1106598374.4477.15.camel@blue>
References: <200501231317.35680.drifter@oppositelock.org>
	<1106506972.25997.14.camel@blue>
	<200501231559.29737.drifter@oppositelock.org>
	<1106515068.2548.16.camel@blue>
	<1106518900.18682.3.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
	<1106520314.2545.17.camel@blue>
	<20050124190246.GH7913@worldnet.att.net>
	<1106594000.2512.14.camel@blue> <41F55412.2070908@mindspring.com>
	<1106598374.4477.15.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <20050124212423.GI7913@worldnet.att.net>

On Mon, Jan 24, 2005 at 03:26:14PM -0500, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 14:01 -0600, Preston Boyington wrote:
> > I think he is talking about the DMCA.  Especially DeCSS and probably 
> > UNIVERSAL CITY v REIMERDES:
> 
> I'm sure he was.  We all know the ins-outs of this case, so it is easy
> for us to see through it.  Why some of those same people are blinded by
> the issues surrounding the number of devices in their home is beyond me.

If you knew I was talking about the DMCA, why did you pretend ignorance?
Are you trolling or being deliberately obtuse?  It's doesn't matter
whether we can "see through" the DeCSS case; it is still illegal.  Yes,
it's an absurd law.  Yes, it's unfair.  Yes, almost all linux
distributions are capable of playing DVDs, and no, you're probably not
going to be arrested for watching the matrix on your linux laptop.  I,
however, am still offended that it is illegal to do so, and ignoring it
won't make it go away.

> Seriously, does the power company care if you have more than 2
> microwaves?  LOL!

*sigh*

Many broadband ISPs include a clause in their terms of service stating
that you must pay an extra fee if you want to connect more than one
computer to the broadband connection.  If you use a NAT router with one
of these ISPs, and do not pay the extra charge, then like Chris said
it's the same as downloading copyrighted files from kazaa.  Yes, it is
ridiculous to put such a clause in the terms of service, and no, I don't
agree with it.  But there it is.  Ignoring it almost certainly won't get
you in trouble, but it won't make it go away either.

Now, you can try and deliberately misunderstand that if you want to, and
possibly even reply with some more analogies that don't apply but do a
good job of clouding the issue, but I'm done taking the bait.
-- 
Jason Day                                       jasonday at
http://jasonday.home.att.net                    worldnet dot att dot net
 
"Of course I'm paranoid, everyone is trying to kill me."
    -- Weyoun-6, Star Trek: Deep Space 9


From scherrey at proteus-tech.com  Mon Jan 24 16:39:30 2005
From: scherrey at proteus-tech.com (Benjamin Scherrey)
Date: Mon Jan 24 16:39:30 2005
Subject: [ale] This list is flooding with messages
In-Reply-To: <1106600242.16329.101.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0501241432120.3556-100000@intel.digichem.net>	<41F55402.6080001@tyderia.net>
	<1106600242.16329.101.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <41F56A07.6050904@proteus-tech.com>

James P. Kinney III wrote:

>On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 15:01 -0500, Mike Murphy wrote:
>  
>
>>So, I suppose a thread asking which distro would be best for a democrat 
>>to use to send microsoft sponsored spam advertising tech jobs in india 
>>enforcing the patriot act via a bellsouth dsl connection using addresses 
>>farmed from the ALE website would be a bad idea then?
>>    
>>
>
>BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
>
>I think you've about covered them all.
>
>Beware the impending deluge ;)
>  
>
    As a Nigerian attorney representing the deceased American's estate 
who has left $23,000,000 (MILLION) worth of rare rolex watches and 
viagra tablets (Allah be praised!) in an offshore account in Liberia 
ruled by the tyrant Charles Taylor, I am offended that I have been left 
out. I will forgive your insolance if you send me your bank account 
information so that I may transfer these funds to you in exchange for 
$2,300,000 (MILLION) dollars. Also, my unfaithful wife would like to 
copulate with you when I go out of town and please reconfirm your ebay 
account at the weblink below which is named unusually so as not to be 
attacked by hackers and is, in no way, a front for Russian mafia.

    Thank you,

       Abdul Chenski

   


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 24 16:41:55 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon Jan 24 16:41:55 2005
Subject: [ale] debian acpi module errors, framebuffer
In-Reply-To: <200501241616.56085.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <200501240246.48116.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<200501241413.51656.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<1106594639.2512.21.camel@blue>
	<200501241616.56085.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <1106602578.6578.5.camel@blue>

On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 16:16 -0500, Jay Loden wrote:
> Debian Testing, 2.6.8 kernel, no usb devices plugged in, 

That's what I was running until i did a custom compile.  I don't have a
i1300 however.  Have you tried booting into single mode and manually
inserting individual usb modules until you see which one is causing the
problem?  I'm not the best when it comes to debugging usb stuff,
historically it has just always sucked.  Recently i've been happy with
usb stability, but I'm sure there will be bad usb days ahead again.  ;-)

-Jim P. 

> 
> and none of the links on google apply, even if they are actually about the 
> same laptop, they apply to 2.4 series kernel, in which there were usb 
> problems.  
> 
> Running Mepis kernel 2.6.7 or Slackware 2.4, I ran into no usb problems. 
> 
> -Jay
> 
> On Monday 24 January 2005 2:23, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> > On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 14:13 -0500, Jay Loden wrote:
> > > Well, that didnt work out too well.  I just disabled acpi, and rebooted
> > > and it hung on USB detection.  I had to reboot into failsafe and remove
> > > the acpi=off
> >
> > Are you using Debian Stable, Testing, or Unstable?
> >
> > Did you use a 2.4 or 2.6 kernel?
> >
> > Do you have any USB devices plugged in?
> >
> > Have you looked at some of these:
> >    http://www.google.com?q=thinkpad+i1300+Debian
> > This one looks promising:
> > http://uhacc.org/~jcpunk/linux-on-laptops/ibm/thinkpad-i1300/i1300-install-
> >guide.html
> >
> > -Jim P.
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From greg.freemyer at gmail.com  Mon Jan 24 16:43:24 2005
From: greg.freemyer at gmail.com (Greg Freemyer)
Date: Mon Jan 24 16:43:24 2005
Subject: [ale] Seeking LVM presentation [ was: LVM - Can't add new drive?]
In-Reply-To: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF043D7CE8@germanium.numethods.com>
References: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF043D7CE8@germanium.numethods.com>
Message-ID: <87f94c370501241338be7bd56@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 14:44:37 -0500, Michael Hirsch wrote:
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
> Greg
> > Freemyer
> > Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 2:28 PM
> > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> > Subject: Re: [ale] Seeking LVM presentation [ was: LVM - Can't add new
> > drive?]
> >
> > On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 13:04:09 -0500, Michael Hirsch
> > <mhirsch at nubridges.com> wrote:
> > > Right you are!  I had forgotten, for fortunately, before I forgot I
> put
> > > it on the ALE twiki server:
> > > http://tomshiro.org/cgi-bin/twiki/view/ALE/ScheduledSpeakers
> > >
> > > I'm still interested in the topic of LVM, but the need is not
> urgent.
> > > We have at least two months of speakers.  Three, if Aaron is really
> > > going to be ready by April.  ;-)
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> > Looking at the WIKI entry, it looks like Asterik is a VOIP solution.
> >
> > We've been thinking about switching our 10-man office to VOIP.
> >
> > Does anyone know if the talk will address small business use of VOIP?
> 
> I suppose Dennis would know, but knowing him as I do, I expect it will
> cover all the various capabilities of Asterisk from a technical
> perspective.  I don't know what he might say about small businesses, in
> particular, but I can't think of many technical issues a small business
> would have that would differ from any other VOIP user's issues.
> 
> What kind of issues did you have in mind?
> 
> Michael
> 
I guess the main things are:

DID (Direct Inward Dial) to someones desk
Call Transfer between Desks, Conf. Calls between multiple desks and
external parties
VoiceMail (VM) support
Integrated VM and e-mail (assuming sound cards)
People working part-time from their homes, but being part of the VOIP PBX.  
   ie. Call Transfer, Call Forwarding, and/or DID

And then some of the hardware pieces: Analog phones to VOIP PBX to
Analog Phone Lines.

Some of that may apply if he is only talking about residential use,
but a lot would not.


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 24 16:57:29 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon Jan 24 16:57:29 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <20050124212423.GI7913@worldnet.att.net>
References: <200501231317.35680.drifter@oppositelock.org>
	<1106506972.25997.14.camel@blue>
	<200501231559.29737.drifter@oppositelock.org>
	<1106515068.2548.16.camel@blue>
	<1106518900.18682.3.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
	<1106520314.2545.17.camel@blue>
	<20050124190246.GH7913@worldnet.att.net>
	<1106594000.2512.14.camel@blue> <41F55412.2070908@mindspring.com>
	<1106598374.4477.15.camel@blue>
	<20050124212423.GI7913@worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <1106603506.6578.22.camel@blue>

On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 16:24 -0500, Jason Day wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 24, 2005 at 03:26:14PM -0500, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> > On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 14:01 -0600, Preston Boyington wrote:
> > > I think he is talking about the DMCA.  Especially DeCSS and probably 
> > > UNIVERSAL CITY v REIMERDES:
> > 
> > I'm sure he was.  We all know the ins-outs of this case, so it is easy
> > for us to see through it.  Why some of those same people are blinded by
> > the issues surrounding the number of devices in their home is beyond me.
> 
> If you knew I was talking about the DMCA, why did you pretend ignorance?

I didn't, and frankly still don't, know what you are talking about.  You
whole point to date has been that you mostly agree with me in principal,
but you prefer to address it by changing the contract terms of a
commercial company, something that you seem to think is law.

> Are you trolling or being deliberately obtuse?  It's doesn't matter
> whether we can "see through" the DeCSS case; it is still illegal.  

You shouldn't do it then.  I will, and I don't see myself getting into
any trouble over it.  YMMV.

> Yes, it's an absurd law.  Yes, it's unfair.  Yes, almost all linux
> distributions are capable of playing DVDs, and no, you're probably not
> going to be arrested for watching the matrix on your linux laptop.  I,
> however, am still offended that it is illegal to do so, and ignoring it
> won't make it go away.

Yes it will.  That's the way most laws go away.  If it doesn't who
cares?

> > Seriously, does the power company care if you have more than 2
> > microwaves?  LOL!
> 
> *sigh*
> 
> Many broadband ISPs include a clause in their terms of service stating
> that you must pay an extra fee if you want to connect more than one
> computer to the broadband connection.  

I don't see that in my contract.  YMMV.  Even if you do see that, it
doesn't make it enforceable.  

> If you use a NAT router with one of these ISPs, and do not pay the extra
> charge, then like Chris said
> it's the same as downloading copyrighted files from kazaa.  

No it is not.  Use of Kazaa in no way implies illegal distribution of
copyrighted material.  I don't use Kazaa, but if you do and you don't
feel comfortable: Don't.  Downloading copyrighted files, that you don't
have permission to posses, is clearly illegal and well established in
law.  The cable company saying I can't do something is completely
different. 

> Yes, it is ridiculous to put such a clause in the terms of service, 
> and no, I don't agree with it.  But there it is.  Ignoring it almost 
> certainly won't get you in trouble, but it won't make it go away either.

So what do you propose to do?  Abide by something you don't agree with
and you know can't be enforced, and is by all accounts probably not
valid?  Give me a break. Don't let others, even cable companies, push
you around like that.

> Now, you can try and deliberately misunderstand that if you want to, and
> possibly even reply with some more analogies that don't apply but do a
> good job of clouding the issue, but I'm done taking the bait.

LOL!  You are the one clouding the issue with your "I know it's not
right, nor is it enforcable, but I think it's still valid" approach.

-Jim P.







From jloden at toughguy.net  Mon Jan 24 17:04:41 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Mon Jan 24 17:04:41 2005
Subject: [ale] debian acpi module errors, framebuffer
In-Reply-To: <1106602578.6578.5.camel@blue>
References: <200501240246.48116.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<200501241616.56085.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<1106602578.6578.5.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <200501241658.32398.jloden@toughguy.net>

Haven't tried that yet...I am currently using partimage to back up my Mepis 
root drive onto an external drive, then I'll put it onto my current BSD 
partition (giving up on BSD for a while) and set up grub so I can use the 
Mepis kernel for the time being. I sure do like Linux better when it just 
works ;)

-Jay

On Monday 24 January 2005 4:36, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 16:16 -0500, Jay Loden wrote:
> > Debian Testing, 2.6.8 kernel, no usb devices plugged in,
>
> That's what I was running until i did a custom compile.  I don't have a
> i1300 however.  Have you tried booting into single mode and manually
> inserting individual usb modules until you see which one is causing the
> problem?  I'm not the best when it comes to debugging usb stuff,
> historically it has just always sucked.  Recently i've been happy with
> usb stability, but I'm sure there will be bad usb days ahead again.  ;-)
>
> -Jim P.


From greg.freemyer at gmail.com  Mon Jan 24 17:05:45 2005
From: greg.freemyer at gmail.com (Greg Freemyer)
Date: Mon Jan 24 17:05:45 2005
Subject: [ale] UPS needs a new home
In-Reply-To: <1106599868.9126.21.camel@k4rsj.radio.org>
References: <1106599868.9126.21.camel@k4rsj.radio.org>
Message-ID: <87f94c3705012414019f4b605@mail.gmail.com>

If it is the unit I'm thinking of, I have batteries.

The batteries are about 4"x4"x6" and it needs several (6 or more).

With batteries, it weighs 50+ pounds?

I'd love to have it.  I bought new batteries for mine, then the
electronics went bad. :(

Greg
-- 
Greg Freemyer

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 15:51:08 -0500, Randal Jarrett wrote:
> 
> 
> I have an AT&T 1KW/1500va ups that is in good shape that I don't want.
> 
> It is a nice upright box, like a small system.
> 
> It is like many others, it needs batteries. :-)
> 
> I'm going to dump it if I cannot find anyone that wants it.
> 
> I also have a couple of large (forklift needed) ones that I will send
> info out about soon.
> 
> Randy
> 
> --
> Randal Jarrett
> RSJ Consulting, Inc
> Lawrenceville, GA
> (770) 822-1096
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>


From jloden at toughguy.net  Mon Jan 24 17:10:51 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Mon Jan 24 17:10:51 2005
Subject: [ale] debian acpi module errors, framebuffer
In-Reply-To: <41F54D46.3020705@3times25.net>
References: <200501240246.48116.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<200501241413.51656.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<41F54D46.3020705@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <200501241629.19393.jloden@toughguy.net>

yes :)

On Monday 24 January 2005 2:32, Geoffrey wrote:
> Jay Loden wrote:
> > Well, that didnt work out too well.  I just disabled acpi, and
> > rebooted and it hung on USB detection.  I had to reboot into failsafe
> > and remove the acpi=off
>
> Did you try 'acpi=off apm=on' ?


From jrickman at gmail.com  Mon Jan 24 17:25:03 2005
From: jrickman at gmail.com (Jonathan Rickman)
Date: Mon Jan 24 17:25:03 2005
Subject: [ale] Ping
Message-ID: <2802c5220501241420b5ab1ab@mail.gmail.com>

--
Jonathan "would love to give someone a job, but can't get the FRIGGIN
MESSAGES TO GO THROUGH!!!" Rickman


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Mon Jan 24 17:39:48 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Mon Jan 24 17:39:48 2005
Subject: [ale] debian acpi module errors, framebuffer
In-Reply-To: <200501241629.19393.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <200501240246.48116.jloden@toughguy.net>	<200501241413.51656.jloden@toughguy.net>	<41F54D46.3020705@3times25.net>
	<200501241629.19393.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <41F57827.20407@3times25.net>

Jay Loden wrote:
> yes :)
> 
> On Monday 24 January 2005 2:32, Geoffrey wrote:
> 
>>Jay Loden wrote:
>>
>>>Well, that didnt work out too well.  I just disabled acpi, and
>>>rebooted and it hung on USB detection.  I had to reboot into failsafe
>>>and remove the acpi=off
>>
>>Did you try 'acpi=off apm=on' ?

Try 'acpi=off apm=off'  If you still have the same problem, then your 
problem is not acpi or apm.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From bmacleod at guc.usg.edu  Mon Jan 24 17:40:44 2005
From: bmacleod at guc.usg.edu (Brian MacLeod)
Date: Mon Jan 24 17:40:44 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
Message-ID: <84A4AD5B2983944780FBCFEE30EBF504071D9D@ravenclaw.solitude.guc.usg.edu>

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On 
> Behalf Of Jim Popovitch
 
> I didn't, and frankly still don't, know what you are talking 
> about.  You whole point to date has been that you mostly 
> agree with me in principal, but you prefer to address it by 
> changing the contract terms of a commercial company, 
> something that you seem to think is law.


Contract terms, as long as they themselves do not violate local, state,
or federal statutes, are in fact law, enforced or not.  But much like
our highways in Atlanta, 55/65 is the law, but officers usually choose
not to enforce it so strictly.  A cable or DSL provider will do the
same; only when you are blantantly violating the law agreed to in
contract do they come down on you.


> You shouldn't do it then.  I will, and I don't see myself 
> getting into any trouble over it.  YMMV.


That's fine until they figure out a way (granted, unlikely).


> Yes it will.  That's the way most laws go away.  If it 
> doesn't who cares?


Contract law, this usually holds true: something that is unenforceable
ends up falling out of contract terms.  In real law, however, those laws
stay on the books until someone deliberately takes them off, and while
it may seem that for all intents and purposes it is no longer paid any
attention, those very laws have a habit of coming back into the
limelight with little warning.


> I don't see that in my contract.  YMMV.  Even if you do see 
> that, it doesn't make it enforceable.  


No, it doesn't, but at the same time, if you are pulling data through
your pipe for most of a 24 hour period, they can probably figure you
have more than one machine back there, and if they wanted to be jerks,
have every right to shut down your line and make you jump through hoops
to prove them wrong or to fight that very contract term.  In the
majority of cases, they'll win by default because the crap you have to
go through to prove anything isn't worth it.


> So what do you propose to do?  Abide by something you don't 
> agree with and you know can't be enforced, and is by all 
> accounts probably not valid?  Give me a break. Don't let 
> others, even cable companies, push you around like that.


This, like everything else, is a choice all of us have to make.


> LOL!  You are the one clouding the issue with your "I know 
> it's not right, nor is it enforcable, but I think it's still 
> valid" approach.


It may cloud things, but he is right, it is valid because you agree to
those terms in a contract.  Those terms fit fine with the statutes in
place at all levels.  It would hold up in a court of law very easliy.

Basically, it's the company covering its ass in case you peak your line
most of the time, and then bandwidth you eat up is enough that it would
warrant a business level line and/or costs them more to provide you that
bandwidth than you pay.  That's all.  They can then cancel the contract
for violation of terms, and then offer to provide you with more
expensive service.

bnm


From jloden at toughguy.net  Mon Jan 24 17:52:37 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Mon Jan 24 17:52:37 2005
Subject: [ale] Ping
In-Reply-To: <2802c5220501241420b5ab1ab@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2802c5220501241420b5ab1ab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200501241746.28440.jloden@toughguy.net>

PONG

On Monday 24 January 2005 5:20, Jonathan Rickman wrote:
> --
> Jonathan "would love to give someone a job, but can't get the FRIGGIN
> MESSAGES TO GO THROUGH!!!" Rickman
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Mon Jan 24 19:06:11 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Mon Jan 24 19:06:11 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <84A4AD5B2983944780FBCFEE30EBF504071D9D@ravenclaw.solitude.guc.usg.edu>
References: <84A4AD5B2983944780FBCFEE30EBF504071D9D@ravenclaw.solitude.guc.usg.edu>
Message-ID: <41F58C67.3040300@3times25.net>

Brian MacLeod wrote:
>  
> 
> 
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On 
>>Behalf Of Jim Popovitch
>>LOL!  You are the one clouding the issue with your "I know 
>>it's not right, nor is it enforcable, but I think it's still 
>>valid" approach.
> 
> It may cloud things, but he is right, it is valid because you agree to
> those terms in a contract.  Those terms fit fine with the statutes in
> place at all levels.  It would hold up in a court of law very easliy.

It appears to me that Mr. P. has a poor set of ethics...  (It's okay if 
I can get away with it..)
-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From tfreeman at intel.digichem.net  Mon Jan 24 19:13:03 2005
From: tfreeman at intel.digichem.net (tfreeman at intel.digichem.net)
Date: Mon Jan 24 19:13:03 2005
Subject: [ale] This list is flooding with messages
In-Reply-To: <41F55402.6080001@tyderia.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0501241846250.4241-100000@intel.digichem.net>


Yep. Bad idea. OTOH, should you be able to string all of those hot buttons 
together into a single, largely comprehensable post. people might 
appreciate some sharing off list. 8-). Should you manage to actually write 
something like that, and have it come off as a serious post, I'm sure the 
group will be happy to award you a large ( >2 )number of Loki points.

I wish I could remember the physicist up around New York who did something 
similar to the supposedly liberal academic establishment ten years ago or 
so. Managed to get a paper past a journal editor, ?peer review?, which 
when properly read had zero content, just a monumental pile of buzz words, 
hot buttons, and devilish syntax. Also made more than a few people upset.

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005, Mike Murphy wrote:

> So, I suppose a thread asking which distro would be best for a democrat 
> to use to send microsoft sponsored spam advertising tech jobs in india 
> enforcing the patriot act via a bellsouth dsl connection using addresses 
> farmed from the ALE website would be a bad idea then?
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> tfreeman at intel.digichem.net wrote:
> > On Mon, 24 Jan 2005, Geoffrey wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >>Ben Le wrote:
> > 
> > <<snip>> 
> > 
> >>I'll apologize for the off topic thread, but can't guarantee it'll be 
> >>the last. 
> > 
> > <<snip>>
> > 
> > Having been around this list for a few years, I'll almost guarantee this 
> > group will wander off topic again, and soon. 8-)
> > 
> > (No, I'm not suggesting somebody start an all consuming OT thread either. 
> > While occasionally somewhat informative, such are frequently dull for the 
> > innocent bystanders.)
> > 
> > YMMV, and hopefully will.
> > 
> > 
> 
> 

-- 
=============================================
If you think Education is expensive
Try Ignorance
                   Author Unknown
============================================


From tfreeman at intel.digichem.net  Mon Jan 24 19:15:47 2005
From: tfreeman at intel.digichem.net (tfreeman at intel.digichem.net)
Date: Mon Jan 24 19:15:47 2005
Subject: [ale] This list is flooding with messages
In-Reply-To: <41F56A07.6050904@proteus-tech.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0501241859130.4241-100000@intel.digichem.net>

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005, Benjamin Scherrey wrote:

> James P. Kinney III wrote:
> 
> >On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 15:01 -0500, Mike Murphy wrote:
> >  
> >
> >>So, I suppose a thread asking which distro would be best for a democrat 
> >>to use to send microsoft sponsored spam advertising tech jobs in india 
> >>enforcing the patriot act via a bellsouth dsl connection using addresses 
> >>farmed from the ALE website would be a bad idea then?
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
> >
> >I think you've about covered them all.
> >
> >Beware the impending deluge ;)
> >  
> >
>     As a Nigerian attorney representing the deceased American's estate 
> who has left $23,000,000 (MILLION) worth of rare rolex watches and 
> viagra tablets (Allah be praised!) in an offshore account in Liberia 
> ruled by the tyrant Charles Taylor, I am offended that I have been left 
> out. I will forgive your insolance if you send me your bank account 
> information so that I may transfer these funds to you in exchange for 
> $2,300,000 (MILLION) dollars. Also, my unfaithful wife would like to 
> copulate with you when I go out of town and please reconfirm your ebay 
> account at the weblink below which is named unusually so as not to be 
> attacked by hackers and is, in no way, a front for Russian mafia.
> 
>     Thank you,
> 
>        Abdul Chenski
> 

Hmmm. Pretty good, but too obvious to succeed in generating a true Loki 
response. OTOH, its cute enough I think I'll keep it on file just in case.

>    
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 

-- 
=============================================
If you think Education is expensive
Try Ignorance
                   Author Unknown
============================================


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 24 19:23:57 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon Jan 24 19:23:57 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <84A4AD5B2983944780FBCFEE30EBF504071D9D@ravenclaw.solitude.guc.usg.edu>
References: <84A4AD5B2983944780FBCFEE30EBF504071D9D@ravenclaw.solitude.guc.usg.edu>
Message-ID: <1106612304.6578.55.camel@blue>

On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 17:35 -0500, Brian MacLeod wrote:
> 
> Contract terms, as long as they themselves do not violate local, state,
> or federal statutes, are in fact law, enforced or not.  

This can not possibly be true.  Laws are passed by a legislature,
enforced by an governmental body.  Police do not arrest someone who
solely ignores a contract.

> But much like our highways in Atlanta, 55/65 is the law, but officers 
> usually choose not to enforce it so strictly.  

This is much different.  55/65 is the law established by an elected
legislative body, and enforced by an infrastructure run by an elected
official or an appointee of an elected official.  It's worth nothing
that enforcement of 55/65 has more to do with department policy than
officers themselves.

> A cable or DSL provider will do the same; only when you are blantantly 
> violating the law agreed to in contract do they come down on you.

They will send the police after me?  Not.  They *might* choose to sue me
in civil court but would probably just disconnect my service.  At that
point, theft of service would be criminal and fully enforceable.
However, contract interpretation disputes, over a mutually agreed upon
service, are something entirely different.

....

> No, it doesn't, but at the same time, if you are pulling data through
> your pipe for most of a 24 hour period, they can probably figure you
> have more than one machine back there, and if they wanted to be jerks,
> have every right to shut down your line and make you jump through hoops
> to prove them wrong or to fight that very contract term.  

The fact that I am maxing out my connection is no indicator of the
number of PCs/devices.  A standard PC these days has a 100MB ethernet
interface on it.  A cable modem just couldn't keep up.

What if I am running a quad-processor PC or Virtual machines?  What
about a clustered setup?  The possibilities for interpretation are
endless.  The logic just isn't there to back any contractual words,
therefore negating any enforceability.

Here is the list of Comcast *supported* cable interface devices:
http://www.comcast.com/Support/Corp1/FAQ/FaqDetail_2427.html
Are you telling me that full use of 50% of those devices violates my
contact with Comcast?  Not.

-Jim P.





From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 24 19:24:54 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon Jan 24 19:24:54 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <41F58C67.3040300@3times25.net>
References: <84A4AD5B2983944780FBCFEE30EBF504071D9D@ravenclaw.solitude.guc.usg.edu>
	<41F58C67.3040300@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <1106612363.6578.57.camel@blue>

On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 19:01 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> > 
> > It may cloud things, but he is right, it is valid because you agree to
> > those terms in a contract.  Those terms fit fine with the statutes in
> > place at all levels.  It would hold up in a court of law very easliy.
> 
> It appears to me that Mr. P. has a poor set of ethics...  (It's okay if 
> I can get away with it..)

OK, show me the violation?  Surely if there is a definitive someone can
produce it.

-Jim P.





From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 24 19:32:53 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon Jan 24 19:32:53 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <41F58C67.3040300@3times25.net>
References: <84A4AD5B2983944780FBCFEE30EBF504071D9D@ravenclaw.solitude.guc.usg.edu>
	<41F58C67.3040300@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <1106612841.6578.65.camel@blue>

On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 19:01 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:

> It appears to me that Mr. P. has a poor set of ethics...  (It's okay if 
> I can get away with it..)

You know, it's dawned on me that there are a subset of people who just
accept bounds placed around them.  They don't question the validity, and
even if they do, they accept the un-defined as "law".  The freely give
up a right they have, loosing grasp on what they can and can't do inside
their own home.

In school we would have called them "wienies", in life
"loosers" (literally).  ;-)

Now before someone steps off the ledge and says that I'm calling people
names, pause to reflect on the fact that my ethics were just questioned.

-Jim P.





From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 24 19:39:38 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon Jan 24 19:39:38 2005
Subject: [ale] Seeking LVM presentation [ was: LVM - Can't add new drive?]
In-Reply-To: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF043D7C3F@germanium.numethods.com>
References: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF043D7C3F@germanium.numethods.com>
Message-ID: <1106613244.6578.70.camel@blue>

On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 10:40 -0500, Michael Hirsch wrote:

> ALE Central has no speaker for February, and later dates are available
> too.  

Since ALE Central meets in the Law Library at Emory it shouldn't be hard
to find a knowledgeable professor to explain/discuss contract law as it
pertains to in-home broadband usage (consumer rights), DeCSS
(trademark/copyright violations), etc.  I volunteer to do the legwork to
locate a resource, anyone interested in hearing what they would have to
say?

-Jim P.




From dmcnash at charter.net  Mon Jan 24 19:48:22 2005
From: dmcnash at charter.net (Doug McNash)
Date: Mon Jan 24 19:48:22 2005
Subject: [ale] Subject Closed - This list is flooding with messages
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20050124091407.02e2fa40@mail.pcc.edu>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20050124084157.00c38428@mail.pcc.edu>
	<5.1.0.14.2.20050124084157.00c38428@mail.pcc.edu>
	<5.1.0.14.2.20050124091407.02e2fa40@mail.pcc.edu>
Message-ID: <1106613829.3742.3.camel@suzy.localdomain>

On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 12:16, Ben Le wrote:
> OK! now I know what is the purpose of this list for. My HP Linux
> instructor was wrong about this list. This subject is closed to
> prevent further flooding email traffic. Thanks for verification.
> 

Hey, It ain't over till we say it's over. Did we quit after Hitler
attacked us at Pearl Harbor? No!


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Mon Jan 24 19:56:58 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Mon Jan 24 19:56:58 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <1106612363.6578.57.camel@blue>
References: <84A4AD5B2983944780FBCFEE30EBF504071D9D@ravenclaw.solitude.guc.usg.edu>	<41F58C67.3040300@3times25.net>
	<1106612363.6578.57.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <41F5983A.6050903@3times25.net>

Jim Popovitch wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 19:01 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> 
>>>It may cloud things, but he is right, it is valid because you agree to
>>>those terms in a contract.  Those terms fit fine with the statutes in
>>>place at all levels.  It would hold up in a court of law very easliy.
>>
>>It appears to me that Mr. P. has a poor set of ethics...  (It's okay if 
>>I can get away with it..)
> 
> 
> OK, show me the violation?  Surely if there is a definitive someone can
> produce it.

I never said there was a violation.  You stated that if it wasn't 
enforceable you weren't worried about it.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Mon Jan 24 20:02:31 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Mon Jan 24 20:02:31 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <1106612841.6578.65.camel@blue>
References: <84A4AD5B2983944780FBCFEE30EBF504071D9D@ravenclaw.solitude.guc.usg.edu>	<41F58C67.3040300@3times25.net>
	<1106612841.6578.65.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <41F59997.6060703@3times25.net>

Jim Popovitch wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 19:01 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> 
> 
>>It appears to me that Mr. P. has a poor set of ethics...  (It's okay if 
>>I can get away with it..)
> 
> 
> You know, it's dawned on me that there are a subset of people who just
> accept bounds placed around them.  They don't question the validity, and
> even if they do, they accept the un-defined as "law".  The freely give
> up a right they have, loosing grasp on what they can and can't do inside
> their own home.

Woah, who posted this?  It must have been spoofed.  Surely the guy who 
says to live with Bellsouth's lousy service isn't the same guy posting this?

> In school we would have called them "wienies", in life
> "loosers" (literally).  ;-)
> 
> Now before someone steps off the ledge and says that I'm calling people
> names, pause to reflect on the fact that my ethics were just questioned.

You are right, I didn't question them, I just noted that you had none.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 24 20:19:29 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon Jan 24 20:19:29 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <41F59997.6060703@3times25.net>
References: <84A4AD5B2983944780FBCFEE30EBF504071D9D@ravenclaw.solitude.guc.usg.edu>
	<41F58C67.3040300@3times25.net> <1106612841.6578.65.camel@blue>
	<41F59997.6060703@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <1106615636.6578.82.camel@blue>

On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 19:57 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> Jim Popovitch wrote:
> > On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 19:01 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >>It appears to me that Mr. P. has a poor set of ethics...  (It's okay if 
> >>I can get away with it..)
> > 
> > 
> > You know, it's dawned on me that there are a subset of people who just
> > accept bounds placed around them.  They don't question the validity, and
> > even if they do, they accept the un-defined as "law".  The freely give
> > up a right they have, loosing grasp on what they can and can't do inside
> > their own home.
> 
> Woah, who posted this?  It must have been spoofed.  Surely the guy who 
> says to live with Bellsouth's lousy service isn't the same guy posting this?
> 
> > In school we would have called them "wienies", in life
> > "loosers" (literally).  ;-)
> > 
> > Now before someone steps off the ledge and says that I'm calling people
> > names, pause to reflect on the fact that my ethics were just questioned.
> 
> You are right, I didn't question them, I just noted that you had none.

Whatever dude.  Your own text at the top disproves what you just typed.
How can someone have a poor set of ethics and none at all.  I realize
you mean it candidly, regardless you are still the one saying it. ;-)

-Jim P.




From dcorbin at machturtle.com  Mon Jan 24 20:39:52 2005
From: dcorbin at machturtle.com (David Corbin)
Date: Mon Jan 24 20:39:52 2005
Subject: [ale] KDE oddity
Message-ID: <200501242034.41439.dcorbin@machturtle.com>

I've gentoo/KDE installation.  Somehow, I've done something so that while I 
have four virtual desktops, only one of them shows the background color and 
main "panel" (task bar).  Any ideas?

David


From jimmyc at speedfactory.net  Mon Jan 24 20:55:00 2005
From: jimmyc at speedfactory.net (Jim Philips)
Date: Mon Jan 24 20:55:00 2005
Subject: [ale] KDE oddity
In-Reply-To: <200501242034.41439.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
References: <200501242034.41439.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
Message-ID: <200501242050.38909.jimmyc@speedfactory.net>

On Monday 24 January 2005 08:34 pm, David Corbin wrote:
> I've gentoo/KDE installation.  Somehow, I've done something so that while I
> have four virtual desktops, only one of them shows the background color and
> main "panel" (task bar).  Any ideas?


I have no idea what going on with the panel, but backgrounds are set per 
desktop in Control Center. Just go to Appearance & Themes-->Background and 
you'll see a pulldown there that defines individual desktops or all desktops. 
If all of this fails, try renaming ~/.kde/share/config/kdeglobals and 
restarting KDE. This will remove all of your previous settings and force you 
to set new ones. Good if the whole rc file is corrupt.


From aaron at pd.org  Mon Jan 24 21:00:58 2005
From: aaron at pd.org (aaron)
Date: Mon Jan 24 21:00:58 2005
Subject: [ale] Seeking LVM presentation [ was: LVM - Can't add new drive?]
In-Reply-To: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF043D7CA8@germanium.numethods.com>
References: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF043D7CA8@germanium.numethods.com>
Message-ID: <200501241553.13213.aaron@pd.org>

On Monday 24 January 2005 13:04, Michael Hirsch wrote:
> Right you are!  I had forgotten, for fortunately, before I forgot I put
> it on the ALE twiki server:
> http://tomshiro.org/cgi-bin/twiki/view/ALE/ScheduledSpeakers
> 
> I'm still interested in the topic of LVM, but the need is not urgent.
> We have at least two months of speakers.  Three, if Aaron is really
> going to be ready by April.  ;-)
> 
> Michael

That's uncertain now... 
 ;-)
I'm now going to need a couple weeks just to recover from the heart attack you 
just gave me with that posting about "no speaker for February"!!
 ;-)

peace
aaron


From FishR at bellsouth.net  Mon Jan 24 21:50:57 2005
From: FishR at bellsouth.net (Ryan Fish)
Date: Mon Jan 24 21:50:57 2005
Subject: [ale] Sendmail latency
Message-ID: <04c501c50288$905207b0$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>

Mail server info:
RHEL 3 ES
2.4.21-27.0.1.ELsmp
sendmail-8.12.11-4.RHEL3.1

App server info:
RHEL 3 ES
2.4.21-27.0.1.ELsmp

The app server dumps messages from a Java API to the mail server using a transport class.  Sendmail is supposed to then pick up the msgs and send them on their way.  However, for the past 10 days sendmail has been VERY latent in sending these msgs.  10 days ago I rebooted this app server and three others just like it early in the morning after installing several updates via up2date.  A few hours later when I made it to the office I found that no mail was being delivered by the mail server at all.  I would receive transient parse errors ("Transient parse error -- message queued for future delivery") when attempting to send via the cmd line.  I got it going again by starting named on the three internal servers listed in /etc/resolv.conf on the mail server.  It was still slow to deliver messages but I attributed this to the backup in the queue since nothing had been sent anywhere for over four hours.  Anyway, mail is still very latent when the Java app dumps its messages to the mail server so, in my mind, it appears there is some form of a DNS resolution issue on the part of the mail server which is causing the hold up.  As I am still very new at everything and have been thrown into my position (I learn best under fire but must ask tons of questions...) I am in serious need of help with this.  I wish I could offer more info but I really don't know where to start.

based on the output of 'netstat -an | grep :110', 'netstat -an | grep :25' and 'netstat -part | grep sendmail' it does not appear the mail server is being hit by a DOS attack or anything of that nature.

/var/log/maillog doesn't appear to have anything out of the ordinary.  When I tail it in real time I see msgs flowing through the box constantly.

I can successfully send mail from the cmd line with only a slight delay.

I can successfully send mail through POP3 with a slightly longer delay.

I can successfully send mail through the mail server while connected to it from another box in the same network via Telnet on port 25.

I can successfully resolve the app server and the mail server from each other via ping.


As stated before, I am not sure where to start with this so any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

-Ryan
-------------- next part --------------
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From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 24 22:13:46 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon Jan 24 22:13:46 2005
Subject: [ale] Sendmail latency
In-Reply-To: <04c501c50288$905207b0$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
References: <04c501c50288$905207b0$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
Message-ID: <1106622495.11980.6.camel@blue>

You are correct that sendmail (mail in general too) is heavily dependent
upon dns.  Ping alone doesn't necessarily test dns.  Can you 'host' each
machine name and ip successfully? 

Make sure that the order is files,dns when you
"grep hosts /etc/resolv.conf"

How many emails does the java applet send at once?  Are we talking
hundreds or thousands?

What format is the email delivered (via the transport class) to the
mailserver?  Is it direct SMTP or file based? 

what does 'ps ax | grep sendmail' show?

-Jim P.

On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 21:50 -0500, Ryan Fish wrote:
> Mail server info:
> RHEL 3 ES
> 2.4.21-27.0.1.ELsmp
> sendmail-8.12.11-4.RHEL3.1
>  
> App server info:
> RHEL 3 ES
> 2.4.21-27.0.1.ELsmp
>  
> The app server dumps messages from a Java API to the mail server using
> a transport class.  Sendmail is supposed to then pick up the msgs and
> send them on their way.  However, for the past 10 days sendmail has
> been VERY latent in sending these msgs.  10 days ago I rebooted this
> app server and three others just like it early in the morning after
> installing several updates via up2date.  A few hours later when I made
> it to the office I found that no mail was being delivered by the mail
> server at all.  I would receive transient parse errors ("Transient
> parse error -- message queued for future delivery") when attempting to
> send via the cmd line.  I got it going again by starting named on the
> three internal servers listed in /etc/resolv.conf on the mail server.
> It was still slow to deliver messages but I attributed this to the
> backup in the queue since nothing had been sent anywhere for over four
> hours.  Anyway, mail is still very latent when the Java app dumps its
> messages to the mail server so, in my mind, it appears there is some
> form of a DNS resolution issue on the part of the mail server which is
> causing the hold up.  As I am still very new at everything and have
> been thrown into my position (I learn best under fire but must ask
> tons of questions...) I am in serious need of help with this.  I wish
> I could offer more info but I really don't know where to start.
>  
> based on the output of 'netstat -an | grep :110', 'netstat -an |
> grep :25' and 'netstat -part | grep sendmail' it does not appear the
> mail server is being hit by a DOS attack or anything of that nature.
>  
> /var/log/maillog doesn't appear to have anything out of the ordinary.
> When I tail it in real time I see msgs flowing through the box
> constantly.
>  
> I can successfully send mail from the cmd line with only a slight
> delay.
>  
> I can successfully send mail through POP3 with a slightly longer
> delay.
>  
> I can successfully send mail through the mail server while connected
> to it from another box in the same network via Telnet on port 25.
>  
> I can successfully resolve the app server and the mail server from
> each other via ping.
>  
>  
> As stated before, I am not sure where to start with this so any help
> will be greatly appreciated.
>  
> Thanks in advance.
>  
> -Ryan
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From mdhirsch at gmail.com  Mon Jan 24 22:18:22 2005
From: mdhirsch at gmail.com (Michael Hirsch)
Date: Mon Jan 24 22:18:22 2005
Subject: [ale] Embedded Linux job in Greensboro, NC
Message-ID: <9c2aabaf05012418137133ef3c@mail.gmail.com>

I just got called by a recruiter who seems desperate for an embedded
Linux developer in Greensboro, NC.  If this is you, send hime an
email:

From: "Kenny Thornton" <kenny.thornton at etgjobs.com>
To: "Michael D. Hirsch" <mdhirsch at mail.com>

The opening is for an Embedded Linux Developer
Design and development of linux sbc platform
Porting of cfn 4 smart crind application to embedded linux sbc.  May include
limited domestic travel.
BS Degree necessary.
    Best regards,
        Kenny Thornton
        Engineering Technical Group


From tfreeman at intel.digichem.net  Mon Jan 24 22:24:39 2005
From: tfreeman at intel.digichem.net (tfreeman at intel.digichem.net)
Date: Mon Jan 24 22:24:39 2005
Subject: [ale] Subject Closed - This list is flooding with messages
In-Reply-To: <1106613829.3742.3.camel@suzy.localdomain>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0501242208310.4711-100000@intel.digichem.net>

On 24 Jan 2005, Doug McNash wrote:

> On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 12:16, Ben Le wrote:
> > OK! now I know what is the purpose of this list for. My HP Linux
> > instructor was wrong about this list. This subject is closed to
> > prevent further flooding email traffic. Thanks for verification.
> > 
> 
> Hey, It ain't over till we say it's over. Did we quit after Hitler
> attacked us at Pearl Harbor? No!

Hitler attacked the US at Perl Harbor?? The mind boggles...

> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 

-- 
=============================================
If you think Education is expensive
Try Ignorance
                   Author Unknown
============================================


From jasonday at worldnet.att.net  Mon Jan 24 22:34:34 2005
From: jasonday at worldnet.att.net (Jason Day)
Date: Mon Jan 24 22:34:34 2005
Subject: [ale] Subject Closed - This list is flooding with messages
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0501242208310.4711-100000@intel.digichem.net>
References: <1106613829.3742.3.camel@suzy.localdomain>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0501242208310.4711-100000@intel.digichem.net>
Message-ID: <20050125033007.GJ7913@worldnet.att.net>

On Mon, Jan 24, 2005 at 10:09:40PM -0500, tfreeman at intel.digichem.net wrote:
> On 24 Jan 2005, Doug McNash wrote:
> > Hey, It ain't over till we say it's over. Did we quit after Hitler
> > attacked us at Pearl Harbor? No!
> 
> Hitler attacked the US at Perl Harbor?? The mind boggles...

Evidently, you've never seen Animal House...

-- 
Jason Day                                       jasonday at
http://jasonday.home.att.net                    worldnet dot att dot net
 
"Of course I'm paranoid, everyone is trying to kill me."
    -- Weyoun-6, Star Trek: Deep Space 9


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 24 22:38:18 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Mon Jan 24 22:38:18 2005
Subject: [ale] Subject Closed - This list is flooding with messages
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0501242208310.4711-100000@intel.digichem.net>
Message-ID: <20050125033334.75572.qmail@web54401.mail.yahoo.com>


--- tfreeman at intel.digichem.net wrote:

> > 
> Hitler attacked the US at Perl Harbor?? The mind
> boggles...
> 


well...in a way...I guess.....on crack....or something...


From aaron at pd.org  Mon Jan 24 22:45:59 2005
From: aaron at pd.org (aaron)
Date: Mon Jan 24 22:45:59 2005
Subject: [ale] Otari system makes Linux a _Sound_ investment...
Message-ID: <200501241739.06901.aaron@pd.org>

Sorry for the pun-ishment in the subject line, but I thought this was of 
interest:
Seems that Otari's newest flag ship audio product is a dedicatied 48 track 
digital audio hard disk recording / mixing system running on linux:
 
http://www.otari.com/product/audio/dr_100/index.html

"...unlike many recording systems that rely on the notoriously error-prone 
[windblows]  operating system, the DR100 processor runs the Unix-like Linux 
operating system, optimized for the product, offering superior reliability, 
efficiency, and the proven ability to work around the clock under the 
pressure of a professional recording environment." 

(Their grammar isn't great, but you get the message.)

I wonder what Bjorn will think of this?

peace
(because the only sane nation is a nation at peace)
aaron




From FishR at bellsouth.net  Mon Jan 24 23:09:07 2005
From: FishR at bellsouth.net (Ryan Fish)
Date: Mon Jan 24 23:09:07 2005
Subject: [ale] Sendmail latency
References: <04c501c50288$905207b0$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<1106622495.11980.6.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <050301c50293$7b106fd0$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>

> You are correct that sendmail (mail in general too) is heavily dependent
> upon dns.  Ping alone doesn't necessarily test dns.  Can you 'host' each
> machine name and ip successfully?

- When I 'host' the app server from the mail server I only receive
192.168.3.0
- When I 'host' the mail server from the app server I receive the full,
proper IP address

> Make sure that the order is files,dns when you
> "grep hosts /etc/resolv.conf"

- This results in no output on either server.  I know what you are looking
for though but cannot remember the file to look in at this time...

> How many emails does the java applet send at once?  Are we talking
> hundreds or thousands?

- Thousands.  When I spoke with the client around 8:30P EST tonight there
were 7500 msgs in the queue used by the Java app on the App server.
Typically that queue is cleared almost instantly.

> what does 'ps ax | grep sendmail' show?

[root at mailserver root]# ps ax|grep sendmail
32048 ?        S      4:30 sendmail: accepting connections
32057 ?        S      0:00 sendmail: Queue runner at 01:00:00 for
/var/spool/clientmqueue
31503 ?        S      0:02 sendmail: ./j0L4smUO025948 from queue
 5617 ?        S      0:00 sendmail: ./j0M6rU5i028191 imail.ouhsc.edu.: user
open
 9155 ?        S      0:00 sendmail: server [222.175.4.226] cmd read
12490 ?        S      0:00 sendmail: ./j0O1BNgI002698 angelfire.com.: user
open
15160 ?        S      0:00 sendmail: server
host81-152-84-182.range81-152.btcentralplus.com [81.152.84.182] cmd read
15236 ?        S      0:00 sendmail: j0P3iEAw015236 216-91-89-130.isp.com
[216.91.89.130]: MAIL FROM
15239 ?        S      0:00 sendmail: j0P3iHkj015239 216-91-89-130.isp.com
[216.91.89.130]: MAIL FROM
15242 ?        S      0:00 sendmail: j0P3i3dd015221 app02.clientdomain.com
[192.168.3.220]: DATA
15243 ?        S      0:00 sendmail: j0P3iD2a015243 app02.clientdomain.com
[192.168.3.220]: MAIL FROM
15248 ?        S      0:00 sendmail: startup with 216-91-89-130.isp.com
15249 ?        S      0:00 sendmail: startup with 216-91-89-130.isp.com
15256 pts/2    S      0:00 grep sendmail


[root at appserver etc]# ps ax|grep sendmail
 1453 ?        S      0:34 sendmail: accepting connections
 1462 ?        S      0:00 sendmail: Queue runner at 01:00:00 for
/var/spool/clientmqueue
 4416 pts/4    S      0:00 grep sendmail




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Popovitch" <jimpop at yahoo.com>
To: "Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts" <ale at ale.org>
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: [ale] Sendmail latency


> You are correct that sendmail (mail in general too) is heavily dependent
> upon dns.  Ping alone doesn't necessarily test dns.  Can you 'host' each
> machine name and ip successfully?
>
> Make sure that the order is files,dns when you
> "grep hosts /etc/resolv.conf"
>
> How many emails does the java applet send at once?  Are we talking
> hundreds or thousands?
>
> What format is the email delivered (via the transport class) to the
> mailserver?  Is it direct SMTP or file based?
>
> what does 'ps ax | grep sendmail' show?
>
> -Jim P.
>
> On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 21:50 -0500, Ryan Fish wrote:
> > Mail server info:
> > RHEL 3 ES
> > 2.4.21-27.0.1.ELsmp
> > sendmail-8.12.11-4.RHEL3.1
> >
> > App server info:
> > RHEL 3 ES
> > 2.4.21-27.0.1.ELsmp
> >
> > The app server dumps messages from a Java API to the mail server using
> > a transport class.  Sendmail is supposed to then pick up the msgs and
> > send them on their way.  However, for the past 10 days sendmail has
> > been VERY latent in sending these msgs.  10 days ago I rebooted this
> > app server and three others just like it early in the morning after
> > installing several updates via up2date.  A few hours later when I made
> > it to the office I found that no mail was being delivered by the mail
> > server at all.  I would receive transient parse errors ("Transient
> > parse error -- message queued for future delivery") when attempting to
> > send via the cmd line.  I got it going again by starting named on the
> > three internal servers listed in /etc/resolv.conf on the mail server.
> > It was still slow to deliver messages but I attributed this to the
> > backup in the queue since nothing had been sent anywhere for over four
> > hours.  Anyway, mail is still very latent when the Java app dumps its
> > messages to the mail server so, in my mind, it appears there is some
> > form of a DNS resolution issue on the part of the mail server which is
> > causing the hold up.  As I am still very new at everything and have
> > been thrown into my position (I learn best under fire but must ask
> > tons of questions...) I am in serious need of help with this.  I wish
> > I could offer more info but I really don't know where to start.
> >
> > based on the output of 'netstat -an | grep :110', 'netstat -an |
> > grep :25' and 'netstat -part | grep sendmail' it does not appear the
> > mail server is being hit by a DOS attack or anything of that nature.
> >
> > /var/log/maillog doesn't appear to have anything out of the ordinary.
> > When I tail it in real time I see msgs flowing through the box
> > constantly.
> >
> > I can successfully send mail from the cmd line with only a slight
> > delay.
> >
> > I can successfully send mail through POP3 with a slightly longer
> > delay.
> >
> > I can successfully send mail through the mail server while connected
> > to it from another box in the same network via Telnet on port 25.
> >
> > I can successfully resolve the app server and the mail server from
> > each other via ping.
> >
> >
> > As stated before, I am not sure where to start with this so any help
> > will be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> > -Ryan
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>



From FishR at bellsouth.net  Mon Jan 24 23:20:04 2005
From: FishR at bellsouth.net (Ryan Fish)
Date: Mon Jan 24 23:20:04 2005
Subject: [ale] Sendmail latency
References: <04c501c50288$905207b0$59b4fea9@win2kpro1><1106622495.11980.6.camel@blue>
	<050301c50293$7b106fd0$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
Message-ID: <052001c50295$0d082f30$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>

> > Make sure that the order is files,dns when you
> > "grep hosts /etc/resolv.conf"
>
> - This results in no output on either server.  I know what you are looking
> for though but cannot remember the file to look in at this time...


Were you wanting me to look in /etc/nsswitch.conf instead?

[root at mailserver mail]# grep hosts /etc/nsswitch.conf
#hosts:     db files nisplus nis dns
hosts:      files dns

[root at appserver etc]# grep hosts /etc/nsswitch.conf
#hosts:     db files nisplus nis dns
hosts:      files dns



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ryan Fish" <FishR at bellsouth.net>
To: "Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts" <ale at ale.org>
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 11:08 PM
Subject: Re: [ale] Sendmail latency


> > You are correct that sendmail (mail in general too) is heavily dependent
> > upon dns.  Ping alone doesn't necessarily test dns.  Can you 'host' each
> > machine name and ip successfully?
>
> - When I 'host' the app server from the mail server I only receive
> 192.168.3.0
> - When I 'host' the mail server from the app server I receive the full,
> proper IP address
>
> > Make sure that the order is files,dns when you
> > "grep hosts /etc/resolv.conf"
>
> - This results in no output on either server.  I know what you are looking
> for though but cannot remember the file to look in at this time...
>
> > How many emails does the java applet send at once?  Are we talking
> > hundreds or thousands?
>
> - Thousands.  When I spoke with the client around 8:30P EST tonight there
> were 7500 msgs in the queue used by the Java app on the App server.
> Typically that queue is cleared almost instantly.
>
> > what does 'ps ax | grep sendmail' show?
>
> [root at mailserver root]# ps ax|grep sendmail
> 32048 ?        S      4:30 sendmail: accepting connections
> 32057 ?        S      0:00 sendmail: Queue runner at 01:00:00 for
> /var/spool/clientmqueue
> 31503 ?        S      0:02 sendmail: ./j0L4smUO025948 from queue
>  5617 ?        S      0:00 sendmail: ./j0M6rU5i028191 imail.ouhsc.edu.:
user
> open
>  9155 ?        S      0:00 sendmail: server [222.175.4.226] cmd read
> 12490 ?        S      0:00 sendmail: ./j0O1BNgI002698 angelfire.com.: user
> open
> 15160 ?        S      0:00 sendmail: server
> host81-152-84-182.range81-152.btcentralplus.com [81.152.84.182] cmd read
> 15236 ?        S      0:00 sendmail: j0P3iEAw015236 216-91-89-130.isp.com
> [216.91.89.130]: MAIL FROM
> 15239 ?        S      0:00 sendmail: j0P3iHkj015239 216-91-89-130.isp.com
> [216.91.89.130]: MAIL FROM
> 15242 ?        S      0:00 sendmail: j0P3i3dd015221 app02.clientdomain.com
> [192.168.3.220]: DATA
> 15243 ?        S      0:00 sendmail: j0P3iD2a015243 app02.clientdomain.com
> [192.168.3.220]: MAIL FROM
> 15248 ?        S      0:00 sendmail: startup with 216-91-89-130.isp.com
> 15249 ?        S      0:00 sendmail: startup with 216-91-89-130.isp.com
> 15256 pts/2    S      0:00 grep sendmail
>
>
> [root at appserver etc]# ps ax|grep sendmail
>  1453 ?        S      0:34 sendmail: accepting connections
>  1462 ?        S      0:00 sendmail: Queue runner at 01:00:00 for
> /var/spool/clientmqueue
>  4416 pts/4    S      0:00 grep sendmail
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jim Popovitch" <jimpop at yahoo.com>
> To: "Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts" <ale at ale.org>
> Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 10:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [ale] Sendmail latency
>
>
> > You are correct that sendmail (mail in general too) is heavily dependent
> > upon dns.  Ping alone doesn't necessarily test dns.  Can you 'host' each
> > machine name and ip successfully?
> >
> > Make sure that the order is files,dns when you
> > "grep hosts /etc/resolv.conf"
> >
> > How many emails does the java applet send at once?  Are we talking
> > hundreds or thousands?
> >
> > What format is the email delivered (via the transport class) to the
> > mailserver?  Is it direct SMTP or file based?
> >
> > what does 'ps ax | grep sendmail' show?
> >
> > -Jim P.
> >
> > On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 21:50 -0500, Ryan Fish wrote:
> > > Mail server info:
> > > RHEL 3 ES
> > > 2.4.21-27.0.1.ELsmp
> > > sendmail-8.12.11-4.RHEL3.1
> > >
> > > App server info:
> > > RHEL 3 ES
> > > 2.4.21-27.0.1.ELsmp
> > >
> > > The app server dumps messages from a Java API to the mail server using
> > > a transport class.  Sendmail is supposed to then pick up the msgs and
> > > send them on their way.  However, for the past 10 days sendmail has
> > > been VERY latent in sending these msgs.  10 days ago I rebooted this
> > > app server and three others just like it early in the morning after
> > > installing several updates via up2date.  A few hours later when I made
> > > it to the office I found that no mail was being delivered by the mail
> > > server at all.  I would receive transient parse errors ("Transient
> > > parse error -- message queued for future delivery") when attempting to
> > > send via the cmd line.  I got it going again by starting named on the
> > > three internal servers listed in /etc/resolv.conf on the mail server.
> > > It was still slow to deliver messages but I attributed this to the
> > > backup in the queue since nothing had been sent anywhere for over four
> > > hours.  Anyway, mail is still very latent when the Java app dumps its
> > > messages to the mail server so, in my mind, it appears there is some
> > > form of a DNS resolution issue on the part of the mail server which is
> > > causing the hold up.  As I am still very new at everything and have
> > > been thrown into my position (I learn best under fire but must ask
> > > tons of questions...) I am in serious need of help with this.  I wish
> > > I could offer more info but I really don't know where to start.
> > >
> > > based on the output of 'netstat -an | grep :110', 'netstat -an |
> > > grep :25' and 'netstat -part | grep sendmail' it does not appear the
> > > mail server is being hit by a DOS attack or anything of that nature.
> > >
> > > /var/log/maillog doesn't appear to have anything out of the ordinary.

> > > When I tail it in real time I see msgs flowing through the box
> > > constantly.
> > >
> > > I can successfully send mail from the cmd line with only a slight
> > > delay.
> > >
> > > I can successfully send mail through POP3 with a slightly longer
> > > delay.
> > >
> > > I can successfully send mail through the mail server while connected
> > > to it from another box in the same network via Telnet on port 25.
> > >
> > > I can successfully resolve the app server and the mail server from
> > > each other via ping.
> > >
> > >
> > > As stated before, I am not sure where to start with this so any help
> > > will be greatly appreciated.
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance.
> > >
> > > -Ryan
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ale mailing list
> > > Ale at ale.org
> > > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>



From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 24 23:23:28 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon Jan 24 23:23:28 2005
Subject: [ale] Sendmail latency
In-Reply-To: <050301c50293$7b106fd0$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
Message-ID: <20050125041900.46365.qmail@web60708.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Ryan Fish <FishR at bellsouth.net> wrote:

> > You are correct that sendmail (mail in general too) is heavily dependent
> > upon dns.  Ping alone doesn't necessarily test dns.  Can you 'host' each
> > machine name and ip successfully?
> 
> - When I 'host' the app server from the mail server I only receive
> 192.168.3.0

Hmmm, that should be a valid IP address (although .0 is probably usable),
something like 192.168.3.1.

> - When I 'host' the mail server from the app server I receive the full,
> proper IP address
> 
> > Make sure that the order is files,dns when you
> > "grep hosts /etc/resolv.conf"
> 
> - This results in no output on either server.  I know what you are looking
> for though but cannot remember the file to look in at this time...

Sorry, I meant /etc/nsswitch.conf
 
> > How many emails does the java applet send at once?  Are we talking
> > hundreds or thousands?
> 
> - Thousands.  When I spoke with the client around 8:30P EST tonight there
> were 7500 msgs in the queue used by the Java app on the App server.
> Typically that queue is cleared almost instantly.

It could be that the sendmail queue is getting backlogged due to latency at
other (receiving) mail servers.  List would be indicated in the "stat" output
of each connection attempt in /var/log/maillog.   Check also for any errors in
/var/log/maillog indicating connection limiting due to high load average? 

-Jim P.



From FishR at bellsouth.net  Mon Jan 24 23:36:16 2005
From: FishR at bellsouth.net (Ryan Fish)
Date: Mon Jan 24 23:36:16 2005
Subject: [ale] Sendmail latency
References: <20050125041900.46365.qmail@web60708.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <053d01c50297$4c75c130$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>

> --- Ryan Fish <FishR at bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> > > You are correct that sendmail (mail in general too) is heavily
dependent
> > > upon dns.  Ping alone doesn't necessarily test dns.  Can you 'host'
each
> > > machine name and ip successfully?
> >
> > - When I 'host' the app server from the mail server I only receive
> > 192.168.3.0
>
> Hmmm, that should be a valid IP address (although .0 is probably usable),
> something like 192.168.3.1.

- The actual IP for this app server is .221 so I have no idea why it is
coming back as .0

>
> > - When I 'host' the mail server from the app server I receive the full,
> > proper IP address
> >
> > > Make sure that the order is files,dns when you
> > > "grep hosts /etc/resolv.conf"
> >
> > - This results in no output on either server.  I know what you are
looking
> > for though but cannot remember the file to look in at this time...
>
> Sorry, I meant /etc/nsswitch.conf

[root at mailserver mail]# grep hosts /etc/nsswitch.conf
#hosts:     db files nisplus nis dns
hosts:      files dns

[root at appserver etc]# grep hosts /etc/nsswitch.conf
#hosts:     db files nisplus nis dns
hosts:      files dns


>
> > > How many emails does the java applet send at once?  Are we talking
> > > hundreds or thousands?
> >
> > - Thousands.  When I spoke with the client around 8:30P EST tonight
there
> > were 7500 msgs in the queue used by the Java app on the App server.
> > Typically that queue is cleared almost instantly.
>
> It could be that the sendmail queue is getting backlogged due to latency
at
> other (receiving) mail servers.  List would be indicated in the "stat"
output
> of each connection attempt in /var/log/maillog.   Check also for any
errors in
> /var/log/maillog indicating connection limiting due to high load average?

Everything worked fine prior to rebooting the app servers around 5A on
14JAN.  Afterwards all of this started...

I see very few errors in the maillog.  Here is a sample of some:

Jan 24 23:24:33 mailserver sendmail[5617]: j0LHsHCx010652:
to=<user at outsidedomain.com>, delay=3+10:30:11, xdelay=00:00:00,
mailer=esmtp, pri=7327408, relay=mail.outsidedomain.com. [38.113.1.50],
dsn=4.3.0, stat=Deferred: 451-host lookup did not complete

Jan 24 23:27:56 mcmail02 sendmail[5617]: j0LFWuTF026717:
to=<user at otherdomain.com>, delay=3+12:54:55, xdelay=00:00:15, mailer=esmtp,
pri=7502182, relay=otherdomain.com. [38.161.171.51], dsn=4.0.0,
stat=Deferred: Connection refused by otherdomain.com



- I don't know how to obtain the 'stat' output of connections in
/var/log/maillog...

-Ryan



From FishR at bellsouth.net  Tue Jan 25 00:07:05 2005
From: FishR at bellsouth.net (Ryan Fish)
Date: Tue Jan 25 00:07:05 2005
Subject: [ale] Sendmail latency
References: <20050125041900.46365.qmail@web60708.mail.yahoo.com>
	<053d01c50297$4c75c130$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
Message-ID: <054601c5029b$08e2e0c0$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>

Where is the information returned by the "host" command obtained from???




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ryan Fish" <FishR at bellsouth.net>
To: "Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts" <ale at ale.org>
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 11:35 PM
Subject: Re: [ale] Sendmail latency


> > --- Ryan Fish <FishR at bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >
> > > > You are correct that sendmail (mail in general too) is heavily
> dependent
> > > > upon dns.  Ping alone doesn't necessarily test dns.  Can you 'host'
> each
> > > > machine name and ip successfully?
> > >
> > > - When I 'host' the app server from the mail server I only receive
> > > 192.168.3.0
> >
> > Hmmm, that should be a valid IP address (although .0 is probably
usable),
> > something like 192.168.3.1.
>
> - The actual IP for this app server is .221 so I have no idea why it is
> coming back as .0
>
> >
> > > - When I 'host' the mail server from the app server I receive the
full,
> > > proper IP address
> > >
> > > > Make sure that the order is files,dns when you
> > > > "grep hosts /etc/resolv.conf"
> > >
> > > - This results in no output on either server.  I know what you are
> looking
> > > for though but cannot remember the file to look in at this time...
> >
> > Sorry, I meant /etc/nsswitch.conf
>
> [root at mailserver mail]# grep hosts /etc/nsswitch.conf
> #hosts:     db files nisplus nis dns
> hosts:      files dns
>
> [root at appserver etc]# grep hosts /etc/nsswitch.conf
> #hosts:     db files nisplus nis dns
> hosts:      files dns
>
>
> >
> > > > How many emails does the java applet send at once?  Are we talking
> > > > hundreds or thousands?
> > >
> > > - Thousands.  When I spoke with the client around 8:30P EST tonight
> there
> > > were 7500 msgs in the queue used by the Java app on the App server.
> > > Typically that queue is cleared almost instantly.
> >
> > It could be that the sendmail queue is getting backlogged due to latency
> at
> > other (receiving) mail servers.  List would be indicated in the "stat"
> output
> > of each connection attempt in /var/log/maillog.   Check also for any
> errors in
> > /var/log/maillog indicating connection limiting due to high load
average?
>
> Everything worked fine prior to rebooting the app servers around 5A on
> 14JAN.  Afterwards all of this started...
>
> I see very few errors in the maillog.  Here is a sample of some:
>
> Jan 24 23:24:33 mailserver sendmail[5617]: j0LHsHCx010652:
> to=<user at outsidedomain.com>, delay=3+10:30:11, xdelay=00:00:00,
> mailer=esmtp, pri=7327408, relay=mail.outsidedomain.com. [38.113.1.50],
> dsn=4.3.0, stat=Deferred: 451-host lookup did not complete
>
> Jan 24 23:27:56 mcmail02 sendmail[5617]: j0LFWuTF026717:
> to=<user at otherdomain.com>, delay=3+12:54:55, xdelay=00:00:15,
mailer=esmtp,
> pri=7502182, relay=otherdomain.com. [38.161.171.51], dsn=4.0.0,
> stat=Deferred: Connection refused by otherdomain.com
>
>
>
> - I don't know how to obtain the 'stat' output of connections in
> /var/log/maillog...
>
> -Ryan
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>



From jimpop at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 25 00:24:16 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Tue Jan 25 00:24:16 2005
Subject: [ale] Sendmail latency
In-Reply-To: <053d01c50297$4c75c130$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
Message-ID: <20050125050316.20547.qmail@web60709.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Ryan Fish <FishR at bellsouth.net> wrote:
> 
> - The actual IP for this app server is .221 so I have no idea why it is
> coming back as .0

This could be a red-flag.  I would check the dns servers listed in
/etc/resolv.conf to see if they return an incorrect IP address for that host. 
Just as a check, verify that from each server you should get accurate
information for these four commands:
 
   # host <server1>
   # host 192.168.3.221
   # host <server2>
   # host <IP_Addr_2nd_Machine> 

> 
> 
> Everything worked fine prior to rebooting the app servers around 5A on
> 14JAN.  Afterwards all of this started...
>
> 
> I see very few errors in the maillog.  Here is a sample of some:
> 
> Jan 24 23:24:33 mailserver sendmail[5617]: j0LHsHCx010652:
> to=<user at outsidedomain.com>, delay=3+10:30:11, xdelay=00:00:00,
> mailer=esmtp, pri=7327408, relay=mail.outsidedomain.com. [38.113.1.50],
> dsn=4.3.0, stat=Deferred: 451-host lookup did not complete

A log of these are indicative of a DNS problem.  A few here and there are
pretty normal.

> 
> Jan 24 23:27:56 mcmail02 sendmail[5617]: j0LFWuTF026717:
> to=<user at otherdomain.com>, delay=3+12:54:55, xdelay=00:00:15, mailer=esmtp,
> pri=7502182, relay=otherdomain.com. [38.161.171.51], dsn=4.0.0,
> stat=Deferred: Connection refused by otherdomain.com
> 

A few of these during "rush hour" is all too common.  Repeated refusals need to
be investigated.  Just curious, are those valid domains or have you changed
them to otherdomain.com and outsidedomain.com? 

> 
> - I don't know how to obtain the 'stat' output of connections in
> /var/log/maillog...

I was just referring to the "stat=Deferred" statements you showed above.

On my systems, I see slow email delivery under 2 different situations.  The
first being high load average, thus causing sendmail to throttle itself. 
Secondly, when DNS has latency/resolution issues.  The trick to the second is
to run a caching DNS server on the mailserver and have /etc/resolv.conf use
127.0.0.1.  It is possible that your issues are related to DNS resolution.

Btw, "Connection refused by otherserver.com" type messages can be a result of
their mailserver not liking yours.  Make sure that your mailserver has a valid
PTR (reverse DNS) entry.  Also use a site like openrbl.org to verify the
'cleanliness' of the IP address of your mailserver.

-Jim P.


 


From FishR at bellsouth.net  Tue Jan 25 00:54:10 2005
From: FishR at bellsouth.net (Ryan Fish)
Date: Tue Jan 25 00:54:10 2005
Subject: [ale] Sendmail latency
References: <20050125050316.20547.qmail@web60709.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <055701c5029f$7519fc20$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>

> --- Ryan Fish <FishR at bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >
> > - The actual IP for this app server is .221 so I have no idea why it is
> > coming back as .0
>
> This could be a red-flag.  I would check the dns servers listed in
> /etc/resolv.conf to see if they return an incorrect IP address for that
host.
> Just as a check, verify that from each server you should get accurate
> information for these four commands:
>
>    # host <server1>
>    # host 192.168.3.221
>    # host <server2>
>    # host <IP_Addr_2nd_Machine>

- The mail server is the only one experiencing the following issue with the
'host' cmd:

[root at mailserver mail]# host app01
app01.clientdomain.com has address 192.168.3.0
[root at mailserver mail]# host app02
app02.clientdomain.com has address 192.168.3.0
[root at mailserver mail]# host app101
app101.clientdomain.com has address 192.168.3.220 (correct)
[root at mailserver mail]# host app102
app102.clientdomain.com has address 192.168.3.0
[root at mailserver mail]# host mailserver
mailserver.clientdomain has address XX.XXX.XXX.199 (the correct IP address)

Where is the info 'host' returns obtained???

>
> >
> >
> > Everything worked fine prior to rebooting the app servers around 5A on
> > 14JAN.  Afterwards all of this started...
> >
> >
> > I see very few errors in the maillog.  Here is a sample of some:
> >
> > Jan 24 23:24:33 mailserver sendmail[5617]: j0LHsHCx010652:
> > to=<user at outsidedomain.com>, delay=3+10:30:11, xdelay=00:00:00,
> > mailer=esmtp, pri=7327408, relay=mail.outsidedomain.com. [38.113.1.50],
> > dsn=4.3.0, stat=Deferred: 451-host lookup did not complete
>
> A log of these are indicative of a DNS problem.  A few here and there are
> pretty normal.
>
> >
> > Jan 24 23:27:56 mcmail02 sendmail[5617]: j0LFWuTF026717:
> > to=<user at otherdomain.com>, delay=3+12:54:55, xdelay=00:00:15,
mailer=esmtp,
> > pri=7502182, relay=otherdomain.com. [38.161.171.51], dsn=4.0.0,
> > stat=Deferred: Connection refused by otherdomain.com
> >
>
> A few of these during "rush hour" is all too common.  Repeated refusals
need to
> be investigated.  Just curious, are those valid domains or have you
changed
> them to otherdomain.com and outsidedomain.com?

- I changed the domain names to protect the innocent...  The domains in
question are valid though.


>
> >
> > - I don't know how to obtain the 'stat' output of connections in
> > /var/log/maillog...
>
> I was just referring to the "stat=Deferred" statements you showed above.
>
> On my systems, I see slow email delivery under 2 different situations.
The
> first being high load average, thus causing sendmail to throttle itself.
> Secondly, when DNS has latency/resolution issues.  The trick to the second
is
> to run a caching DNS server on the mailserver and have /etc/resolv.conf
use
> 127.0.0.1.  It is possible that your issues are related to DNS resolution.


- How would I setup a caching name server on the mail server?  named is
running on that box and named.conf contains info for each domain hosted by
the client however there I can find no other DNS info (as far domains not
hosted by the client) on this box but I have no idea where to look for that.

>
> Btw, "Connection refused by otherserver.com" type messages can be a result
of
> their mailserver not liking yours.  Make sure that your mailserver has a
valid
> PTR (reverse DNS) entry.  Also use a site like openrbl.org to verify the
> 'cleanliness' of the IP address of your mailserver.


- A valid PTR record is in place.  I verified this with 'dig -x' from a box
outside of their network.

- I haven't found any RBL issues with the mail server's IP either.



From jimpop at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 25 01:11:54 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Tue Jan 25 01:11:54 2005
Subject: [ale] Sendmail latency
In-Reply-To: <054601c5029b$08e2e0c0$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
References: <20050125041900.46365.qmail@web60708.mail.yahoo.com>
	<053d01c50297$4c75c130$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<054601c5029b$08e2e0c0$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
Message-ID: <1106631883.12632.9.camel@blue>

On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 00:02 -0500, Ryan Fish wrote:
> Where is the information returned by the "host" command obtained from???

host, nslookup, and dig all use DNS servers listed in /etc/resolv.conf.
For each of these utilities there are commandline options to specify
alternate DNS servers.

-Jim P.





From transam at verysecurelinux.com  Tue Jan 25 01:18:07 2005
From: transam at verysecurelinux.com (Bob Toxen)
Date: Tue Jan 25 01:18:07 2005
Subject: [ale] Webhosting Questions
In-Reply-To: <41F4DB5D.4050201@alltc.com>
References: <20050122222321.O46441-100000@m-net.arbornet.org>
	<41F4DB5D.4050201@alltc.com>
Message-ID: <20050125055114.GA1418@verysecurelinux.com>

On Mon, Jan 24, 2005 at 06:26:21AM -0500, Barry Hawkins wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1

> exo wrote:
> | Hi,
> |
> | I am bit confused here.  I saw some posts here about domain name
> | registering, regarding godaddy.com.  Well I got a domain from them.  But
> | now the question comes for webhosting.  Domains is one thing, hosting is
> | another issue.
> [...]
> Be sure to check out HostingMatters out of Jacksonville.  For the price
> range others are referring to, they are hard to beat.  Their community
> support forum is also quite good.  I think I mentioned them before the
> last time we had a hosting thread.
For DNS, I highly recommend enom.com over godaddy.com or, yech,
networksolutions.com.  Having dealt with all three, enom.com is easier
to use and has better customer support and good prices.

> [0] - http://www.hostmatters.com

> - --
> Barry Hawkins
> All Things Computed
> site: www.alltc.com
> weblog: www.yepthatsme.com

> Registered Linux User #368650

Bob Toxen
bob at verysecurelinux.com               [Please use for email to me]
http://www.verysecurelinux.com        [Network&Linux/Unix security consulting]
http://www.realworldlinuxsecurity.com [My book:"Real World Linux Security 2/e"]
Quality Linux & UNIX security and SysAdmin & software consulting since 1990.

"Microsoft: Unsafe at any clock speed!"
   -- Bob Toxen 10/03/2002


From FishR at bellsouth.net  Tue Jan 25 01:20:33 2005
From: FishR at bellsouth.net (Ryan Fish)
Date: Tue Jan 25 01:20:33 2005
Subject: Fw: [ale] Sendmail latency
Message-ID: <057301c502a2$b4447530$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>

Not sure why this didn't go through the first time...

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ryan Fish" <FishR at bellsouth.net>
To: "Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts" <ale at ale.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 12:33 AM
Subject: Re: [ale] Sendmail latency


> > --- Ryan Fish <FishR at bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > - The actual IP for this app server is .221 so I have no idea why it
is
> > > coming back as .0
> >
> > This could be a red-flag.  I would check the dns servers listed in
> > /etc/resolv.conf to see if they return an incorrect IP address for that
> host.
> > Just as a check, verify that from each server you should get accurate
> > information for these four commands:
> >
> >    # host <server1>
> >    # host 192.168.3.221
> >    # host <server2>
> >    # host <IP_Addr_2nd_Machine>
>
 - The mail server is the only one experiencing the following issue with the
 'host' cmd:

 [root at mailserver mail]# host app01
 app01.clientdomain.com has address 192.168.3.0
 [root at mailserver mail]# host app02
 app02.clientdomain.com has address 192.168.3.0
 [root at mailserver mail]# host app101
 app101.clientdomain.com has address 192.168.3.220 (correct)
 [root at mailserver mail]# host app102
 app102.clientdomain.com has address 192.168.3.0
 [root at mailserver mail]# host mailserver
 mailserver.clientdomain has address XX.XXX.XXX.199 (the correct IP address)


>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Everything worked fine prior to rebooting the app servers around 5A on
> > > 14JAN.  Afterwards all of this started...
> > >
> > >
> > > I see very few errors in the maillog.  Here is a sample of some:
> > >
> > > Jan 24 23:24:33 mailserver sendmail[5617]: j0LHsHCx010652:
> > > to=<user at outsidedomain.com>, delay=3+10:30:11, xdelay=00:00:00,
> > > mailer=esmtp, pri=7327408, relay=mail.outsidedomain.com.
[38.113.1.50],
> > > dsn=4.3.0, stat=Deferred: 451-host lookup did not complete
> >
> > A log of these are indicative of a DNS problem.  A few here and there
are
> > pretty normal.
> >
> > >
> > > Jan 24 23:27:56 mcmail02 sendmail[5617]: j0LFWuTF026717:
> > > to=<user at otherdomain.com>, delay=3+12:54:55, xdelay=00:00:15,
> mailer=esmtp,
> > > pri=7502182, relay=otherdomain.com. [38.161.171.51], dsn=4.0.0,
> > > stat=Deferred: Connection refused by otherdomain.com
> > >
> >
> > A few of these during "rush hour" is all too common.  Repeated refusals
> need to
> > be investigated.  Just curious, are those valid domains or have you
> changed
> > them to otherdomain.com and outsidedomain.com?

 - I changed the domain names to protect the innocent...  The domains in
 question are valid though.

>
> >
> > >
> > > - I don't know how to obtain the 'stat' output of connections in
> > > /var/log/maillog...
> >
> > I was just referring to the "stat=Deferred" statements you showed above.
> >
> > On my systems, I see slow email delivery under 2 different situations.
> The
> > first being high load average, thus causing sendmail to throttle itself.
> > Secondly, when DNS has latency/resolution issues.  The trick to the
second
> is
> > to run a caching DNS server on the mailserver and have /etc/resolv.conf
> use
> > 127.0.0.1.  It is possible that your issues are related to DNS
resolution.
>

- How would I setup a caching name server on the mail server?  named is
 running on that box and named.conf contains info for each domain hosted by
 the client however there I can find no other DNS info (as far domains not
 hosted by the client) on this box but I have no idea where to look for
that.

> >
> > Btw, "Connection refused by otherserver.com" type messages can be a
result
> of
> > their mailserver not liking yours.  Make sure that your mailserver has a
> valid
> > PTR (reverse DNS) entry.  Also use a site like openrbl.org to verify the
> > 'cleanliness' of the IP address of your mailserver.
>
>
 - A valid PTR record is in place.  I verified this with 'dig -x' from a box
 outside of their network.

 - I haven't found any RBL issues with the mail server's IP either.



From FishR at bellsouth.net  Tue Jan 25 01:21:30 2005
From: FishR at bellsouth.net (Ryan Fish)
Date: Tue Jan 25 01:21:30 2005
Subject: [ale] Sendmail latency
References: <20050125041900.46365.qmail@web60708.mail.yahoo.com>
	<053d01c50297$4c75c130$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<054601c5029b$08e2e0c0$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<1106631883.12632.9.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <058201c502a3$0baf2680$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>

Here are answers to your other questions.  I am not sure why some of my msgs
are not being accepted by the system now...

> > --- Ryan Fish <FishR at bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > - The actual IP for this app server is .221 so I have no idea why it
is
> > > coming back as .0
> >
> > This could be a red-flag.  I would check the dns servers listed in
> > /etc/resolv.conf to see if they return an incorrect IP address for that
> host.
> > Just as a check, verify that from each server you should get accurate
> > information for these four commands:
> >
> >    # host <server1>
> >    # host 192.168.3.221
> >    # host <server2>
> >    # host <IP_Addr_2nd_Machine>
>
 - The mail server is the only one experiencing the following issue with the
 'host' cmd:

 [root at mailserver mail]# host app01
 app01.clientdomain.com has address 192.168.3.0
 [root at mailserver mail]# host app02
 app02.clientdomain.com has address 192.168.3.0
 [root at mailserver mail]# host app101
 app101.clientdomain.com has address 192.168.3.220 (correct)
 [root at mailserver mail]# host app102
 app102.clientdomain.com has address 192.168.3.0
 [root at mailserver mail]# host mailserver
 mailserver.clientdomain has address XX.XXX.XXX.199 (the correct IP address)


>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Everything worked fine prior to rebooting the app servers around 5A on
> > > 14JAN.  Afterwards all of this started...
> > >
> > >
> > > I see very few errors in the maillog.  Here is a sample of some:
> > >
> > > Jan 24 23:24:33 mailserver sendmail[5617]: j0LHsHCx010652:
> > > to=<user at outsidedomain.com>, delay=3+10:30:11, xdelay=00:00:00,
> > > mailer=esmtp, pri=7327408, relay=mail.outsidedomain.com.
[38.113.1.50],
> > > dsn=4.3.0, stat=Deferred: 451-host lookup did not complete
> >
> > A log of these are indicative of a DNS problem.  A few here and there
are
> > pretty normal.
> >
> > >
> > > Jan 24 23:27:56 mcmail02 sendmail[5617]: j0LFWuTF026717:
> > > to=<user at otherdomain.com>, delay=3+12:54:55, xdelay=00:00:15,
> mailer=esmtp,
> > > pri=7502182, relay=otherdomain.com. [38.161.171.51], dsn=4.0.0,
> > > stat=Deferred: Connection refused by otherdomain.com
> > >
> >
> > A few of these during "rush hour" is all too common.  Repeated refusals
> need to
> > be investigated.  Just curious, are those valid domains or have you
> changed
> > them to otherdomain.com and outsidedomain.com?

 - I changed the domain names to protect the innocent...  The domains in
 question are valid though.

>
> >
> > >
> > > - I don't know how to obtain the 'stat' output of connections in
> > > /var/log/maillog...
> >
> > I was just referring to the "stat=Deferred" statements you showed above.
> >
> > On my systems, I see slow email delivery under 2 different situations.
> The
> > first being high load average, thus causing sendmail to throttle itself.
> > Secondly, when DNS has latency/resolution issues.  The trick to the
second
> is
> > to run a caching DNS server on the mailserver and have /etc/resolv.conf
> use
> > 127.0.0.1.  It is possible that your issues are related to DNS
resolution.
>

- How would I setup a caching name server on the mail server?  named is
 running on that box and named.conf contains info for each domain hosted by
 the client however there I can find no other DNS info (as far domains not
 hosted by the client) on this box but I have no idea where to look for
that.

> >
> > Btw, "Connection refused by otherserver.com" type messages can be a
result
> of
> > their mailserver not liking yours.  Make sure that your mailserver has a
> valid
> > PTR (reverse DNS) entry.  Also use a site like openrbl.org to verify the
> > 'cleanliness' of the IP address of your mailserver.
>
>
 - A valid PTR record is in place.  I verified this with 'dig -x' from a box
 outside of their network.

 - I haven't found any RBL issues with the mail server's IP either



From jimpop at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 25 01:58:59 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Tue Jan 25 01:58:59 2005
Subject: [ale] Sendmail latency
In-Reply-To: <058201c502a3$0baf2680$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
References: <20050125041900.46365.qmail@web60708.mail.yahoo.com>
	<053d01c50297$4c75c130$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<054601c5029b$08e2e0c0$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<1106631883.12632.9.camel@blue>
	<058201c502a3$0baf2680$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
Message-ID: <1106634337.13126.11.camel@blue>

On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 00:59 -0500, Ryan Fish wrote:
>  - The mail server is the only one experiencing the following issue with the
>  'host' cmd:
> 
>  [root at mailserver mail]# host app01
>  app01.clientdomain.com has address 192.168.3.0
>  [root at mailserver mail]# host app02
>  app02.clientdomain.com has address 192.168.3.0
>  [root at mailserver mail]# host app101
>  app101.clientdomain.com has address 192.168.3.220 (correct)
>  [root at mailserver mail]# host app102
>  app102.clientdomain.com has address 192.168.3.0
>  [root at mailserver mail]# host mailserver
>  mailserver.clientdomain has address XX.XXX.XXX.199 (the correct IP address)
> 

Based on the above data, you need to check the DNS server(s) specified
in /etc/resolv.conf and determine why they are resolving app01 and app02
as 192.168.3.0.  Secondly, you need to test the following:
 
  # host 192.168.3.220 
  # host XX.XXX.XXX.199 

Verify that the above reports the correct reverse lookup for those IP
addresses.

>  - I changed the domain names to protect the innocent...  The domains in
>  question are valid though.

Yes, but you left one valid IP address in there. ;-)


> - How would I setup a caching name server on the mail server?  named is
>  running on that box and named.conf contains info for each domain hosted by
>  the client however there I can find no other DNS info (as far domains not
>  hosted by the client) on this box but I have no idea where to look for
> that.

RHEL has a package called caching-nameserver, install it and you should
be good.  FIRST backup your existing /etc/named.conf as well
as /var/named/*.  Caching-nameserver will add a few entires
to /etc/named.conf as well as a file or two to /var/named.

I would also encourage you to look at running named inside a chroot'ed
environment.  However that is a discussion for another day.  When you
are curious just google for "chroot named".

Assuming you have rndc all setup in /etc/named.conf, once you have
things running issue this command: "rndc querylog" and then tail
-f /var/log/messages to see how fast or slow DNS queries are being
resolved.  Don't leave querylog enabled on a busy box. ;-)

-Jim P.





From esoteric at 3times25.net  Tue Jan 25 07:04:18 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Tue Jan 25 07:04:18 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <1106615636.6578.82.camel@blue>
References: <84A4AD5B2983944780FBCFEE30EBF504071D9D@ravenclaw.solitude.guc.usg.edu>	<41F58C67.3040300@3times25.net>
	<1106612841.6578.65.camel@blue>	<41F59997.6060703@3times25.net>
	<1106615636.6578.82.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <41F6335E.90503@3times25.net>

Jim Popovitch wrote:

> Whatever dude.  Your own text at the top disproves what you just typed.
> How can someone have a poor set of ethics and none at all.  I realize
> you mean it candidly, regardless you are still the one saying it. ;-)

My point was based on your statement regarding DeCSS and the DMCA:


Jason D.> Are you trolling or being deliberately obtuse?  It's doesn't
Jason D.> matter whether we can "see through" the DeCSS case; it is 
Jason D.> still illegal.

Jim P.: You shouldn't do it then.  I will, and I don't see myself
Jim P.: getting into any trouble over it.  YMMV.'

My take on that is, because you don't see yourself getting caught, it's 
okay to do it.  That is questionable ethics.  Oh yeah, ignorance of the 
law is not a defense.

In the event anyone else is still following this thread, I'm finished 
with it. (do I hear applause? Sighs of relief?)

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Tue Jan 25 07:38:16 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Tue Jan 25 07:38:16 2005
Subject: [ale] Sendmail latency
In-Reply-To: <1106631883.12632.9.camel@blue>
References: <20050125041900.46365.qmail@web60708.mail.yahoo.com>	<053d01c50297$4c75c130$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>	<054601c5029b$08e2e0c0$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<1106631883.12632.9.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <41F63B96.5030309@3times25.net>

Jim Popovitch wrote:
> On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 00:02 -0500, Ryan Fish wrote:
> 
>>Where is the information returned by the "host" command obtained from???
> 
> 
> host, nslookup, and dig all use DNS servers listed in /etc/resolv.conf.
> For each of these utilities there are commandline options to specify
> alternate DNS servers.

If you have multiple entries in /etc/resolv.conf, try swapping them.

Have you verified that the ip is set properly on the machine in 
question? (/sbin/ifconfig)

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From mhirsch at nubridges.com  Tue Jan 25 08:38:35 2005
From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael Hirsch)
Date: Tue Jan 25 08:38:35 2005
Subject: [ale] Seeking LVM presentation [ was: LVM - Can't add new drive?]
Message-ID: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465C994@germanium.numethods.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
Jim
> Popovitch
> Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 7:34 PM
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [ale] Seeking LVM presentation [ was: LVM - Can't add new
> drive?]
> 
> On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 10:40 -0500, Michael Hirsch wrote:
> 
> > ALE Central has no speaker for February, and later dates are
available
> > too.
> 
> Since ALE Central meets in the Law Library at Emory it shouldn't be
hard
> to find a knowledgeable professor to explain/discuss contract law as
it
> pertains to in-home broadband usage (consumer rights), DeCSS
> (trademark/copyright violations), etc.  I volunteer to do the legwork
to
> locate a resource, anyone interested in hearing what they would have
to
> say?

You get the speaker, we'll let him/her/it speak.  There's lots of
interest.

Michael


From FishR at bellsouth.net  Tue Jan 25 09:01:24 2005
From: FishR at bellsouth.net (Ryan Fish)
Date: Tue Jan 25 09:01:24 2005
Subject: [ale] Sendmail latency
References: <20050125041900.46365.qmail@web60708.mail.yahoo.com>
	<053d01c50297$4c75c130$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<054601c5029b$08e2e0c0$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<1106631883.12632.9.camel@blue>
	<058201c502a3$0baf2680$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<1106634337.13126.11.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <05b001c502e6$202c8790$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>

> On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 00:59 -0500, Ryan Fish wrote:
> >  - The mail server is the only one experiencing the following issue with
the
> >  'host' cmd:
> >
> >  [root at mailserver mail]# host app01
> >  app01.clientdomain.com has address 192.168.3.0
> >  [root at mailserver mail]# host app02
> >  app02.clientdomain.com has address 192.168.3.0
> >  [root at mailserver mail]# host app101
> >  app101.clientdomain.com has address 192.168.3.220 (correct)
> >  [root at mailserver mail]# host app102
> >  app102.clientdomain.com has address 192.168.3.0
> >  [root at mailserver mail]# host mailserver
> >  mailserver.clientdomain has address XX.XXX.XXX.199 (the correct IP
address)
> >
>
> Based on the above data, you need to check the DNS server(s) specified
> in /etc/resolv.conf and determine why they are resolving app01 and app02
> as 192.168.3.0.  Secondly, you need to test the following:
>
>   # host 192.168.3.220
>   # host XX.XXX.XXX.199
>
> Verify that the above reports the correct reverse lookup for those IP
> addresses.


- Every server in the farm uses .219. 220, .221 and .222 for DNS however
none of those boxes have PTR records in place.  Is there a way to turn off
reverse lookups within Sendmail in hopes of it just accepting that the
messages sent from internal IPs are valid?  Otherwise, where would I add the
needed reverse records?

However, I don't necessarily feel as though this is an issue with Sendmail
as it was working fine (no complaints from the clients, no errors, etc.)
prior to my rebooting the app servers that double as name servers for all of
the boxes in the farm.  Each server was updated with Bind 9.2.4 Rel. 5_EL3
prior to the reboot (only thing DNS related I know of for sure).

>
> >  - I changed the domain names to protect the innocent...  The domains in
> >  question are valid though.
>
> Yes, but you left one valid IP address in there. ;-)
>
>
> > - How would I setup a caching name server on the mail server?  named is
> >  running on that box and named.conf contains info for each domain hosted
by
> >  the client however there I can find no other DNS info (as far domains
not
> >  hosted by the client) on this box but I have no idea where to look for
> > that.
>
> RHEL has a package called caching-nameserver, install it and you should
> be good.  FIRST backup your existing /etc/named.conf as well
> as /var/named/*.  Caching-nameserver will add a few entires
> to /etc/named.conf as well as a file or two to /var/named.
>
> I would also encourage you to look at running named inside a chroot'ed
> environment.  However that is a discussion for another day.  When you
> are curious just google for "chroot named".
>
> Assuming you have rndc all setup in /etc/named.conf, once you have
> things running issue this command: "rndc querylog" and then tail
> -f /var/log/messages to see how fast or slow DNS queries are being
> resolved.  Don't leave querylog enabled on a busy box. ;-)


- As these are production boxes not owned by me and I am as of yet still
unsure of myself in many ways when it comes to certain things I am going to
have to hold off on making a change such as this for now.

>
> -Jim P.
>
>
>
>
>



From dcorbin at enttek.com  Tue Jan 25 09:05:33 2005
From: dcorbin at enttek.com (David Corbin)
Date: Tue Jan 25 09:05:33 2005
Subject: [ale] Critters in the Attic
Message-ID: <200501250859.02301.dcorbin@enttek.com>

We have critters in the attic. ?Unfortunately, they don't seem to want to be 
caught by our rat traps (cages sized for Noregian Roof Rats, which we've had 
before). ?So, I assume it's something larger. ?What I really need is to know 
where they're entering the attic, so I can seal it.

But wait you say, this is a Linux list. ?I have an old P133 system that I just 
shut down. ?I had this thought - what inexpensive peripherals could I add 
to this box to help me solve it?

I was thinking I could put the box in the attic (winter fortunately), and put 
a cheap camera on it. ?I'd need some type of flash/strobe, or it would have 
to be an IR-capabel camera (they only seem active at night, so even low-light 
won't help). ?If it's a still-camera, I'd need a motion sensor, though that 
might be good either way.

Suggestions?
David


End of encapsulated message


From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Tue Jan 25 09:11:53 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Tue Jan 25 09:11:53 2005
Subject: [ale] Critters in the Attic
In-Reply-To: <200501250859.02301.dcorbin@enttek.com>
References: <200501250859.02301.dcorbin@enttek.com>
Message-ID: <1106662022.5875.5.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=48629&item=5746178005&rd=1
On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 08:59, David Corbin wrote:
> We have critters in the attic.  Unfortunately, they don't seem to want to be 
> caught by our rat traps (cages sized for Noregian Roof Rats, which we've had 
> before).  So, I assume it's something larger.  What I really need is to know 
> where they're entering the attic, so I can seal it.
> 
> But wait you say, this is a Linux list.  I have an old P133 system that I just 
> shut down.  I had this thought - what inexpensive peripherals could I add 
> to this box to help me solve it?
> 
> I was thinking I could put the box in the attic (winter fortunately), and put 
> a cheap camera on it.  I'd need some type of flash/strobe, or it would have 
> to be an IR-capabel camera (they only seem active at night, so even low-light 
> won't help).  If it's a still-camera, I'd need a motion sensor, though that 
> might be good either way.
> 
> Suggestions?
> David
> 
> 
> End of encapsulated message
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From FishR at bellsouth.net  Tue Jan 25 09:14:02 2005
From: FishR at bellsouth.net (Ryan Fish)
Date: Tue Jan 25 09:14:02 2005
Subject: [ale] Sendmail latency
References: <20050125041900.46365.qmail@web60708.mail.yahoo.com>	<053d01c50297$4c75c130$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>	<054601c5029b$08e2e0c0$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<1106631883.12632.9.camel@blue> <41F63B96.5030309@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <05c401c502e7$c3243c80$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>

> If you have multiple entries in /etc/resolv.conf, try swapping them.

- All boxes have some combination of the following in /etc/resolv.conf.  All
of them contain the first three and at least one of the NS provided by the
ISP:

search clientdomain.com
nameserver 192.168.3.222
nameserver 192.168.3.220
nameserver 192.168.3.219
nameserver 66.179.XXX.XXX  - ISP nameserver
nameserver 66.179.XXX.XXX  - ISP nameserver
nameserver 66.179.XX.XXX  - NS provided by data center used by client
nameserver 66.179.XX.XXX  - NS provided by data center used by client
nameserver 216.183.XXX.XXX  - NS provided by data center used by client
namserver 192.168.1.10


I have tried changing the order and found that shown above to be the best so
far.

>
> Have you verified that the ip is set properly on the machine in
> question? (/sbin/ifconfig)

- ifconfig returns the proper IP address for each box



From esoteric at 3times25.net  Tue Jan 25 09:20:48 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Tue Jan 25 09:20:48 2005
Subject: [ale] Critters in the Attic
In-Reply-To: <200501250859.02301.dcorbin@enttek.com>
References: <200501250859.02301.dcorbin@enttek.com>
Message-ID: <41F65490.8090005@3times25.net>

David Corbin wrote:
> We have critters in the attic.  Unfortunately, they don't seem to want to be 
> caught by our rat traps (cages sized for Noregian Roof Rats, which we've had 
> before).  So, I assume it's something larger.  What I really need is to know 
> where they're entering the attic, so I can seal it.
> 
> But wait you say, this is a Linux list.  I have an old P133 system that I just 
> shut down.  I had this thought - what inexpensive peripherals could I add 
> to this box to help me solve it?
> 
> I was thinking I could put the box in the attic (winter fortunately), and put 
> a cheap camera on it.  I'd need some type of flash/strobe, or it would have 
> to be an IR-capabel camera (they only seem active at night, so even low-light 
> won't help).  If it's a still-camera, I'd need a motion sensor, though that 
> might be good either way.

You can purchase a lowend IR enabled camera for around $80.  Go with a 
video capture card (without tv tuner, around $20) and a standalone 
camera with rca or s-video input.  rca cameras are easier to find, both 
CompUSA and Frys carry them.

Get your hands on 'motion.'  It's a software package that does motion 
detection on v4l compliant hardware.  I've got one set up on my 
driveway.  I know when the garbage is picked up, when my wife get's home 
and most importantly, whether or not I need to answer the door when 
someone pulls up in the driveway.

I set another up at our Church.  We had problems with vandals.  I placed 
a camera in the main hall of the building they were breaking into. 
Connected to a headless P200, sitting in the top of the pantry.

Bear in mind the low end ir cameras have a limited distance, but you 
could simply strap a light up there.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 25 09:35:40 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Tue Jan 25 09:35:40 2005
Subject: [ale] Sendmail latency
In-Reply-To: <05c401c502e7$c3243c80$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
References: <20050125041900.46365.qmail@web60708.mail.yahoo.com>
	<053d01c50297$4c75c130$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<054601c5029b$08e2e0c0$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<1106631883.12632.9.camel@blue> <41F63B96.5030309@3times25.net>
	<05c401c502e7$c3243c80$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
Message-ID: <1106663161.14585.2.camel@blue>

On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 09:11 -0500, Ryan Fish wrote:
> - All boxes have some combination of the following in /etc/resolv.conf.  All
> of them contain the first three and at least one of the NS provided by the
> ISP:
> 
> search clientdomain.com
> nameserver 192.168.3.222
> nameserver 192.168.3.220
> nameserver 192.168.3.219
> nameserver 66.179.XXX.XXX  - ISP nameserver
> nameserver 66.179.XXX.XXX  - ISP nameserver
> nameserver 66.179.XX.XXX  - NS provided by data center used by client
> nameserver 66.179.XX.XXX  - NS provided by data center used by client
> nameserver 216.183.XXX.XXX  - NS provided by data center used by client
> namserver 192.168.1.10

I am 99% convinvced that what you need is a local caching name server on
the mailserver.  Add it, then put 127.0.0.1 as your first nameserver
in /etc/resolv.conf. 

-Jim P.




From charles.shapiro at numethods.com  Tue Jan 25 09:38:36 2005
From: charles.shapiro at numethods.com (Charles Shapiro)
Date: Tue Jan 25 09:38:36 2005
Subject: [ale] OT OT OT This list is flooding with messages
Message-ID: <1106663124.6718.15.camel@cshapiro.numethods.com>

Alan B Sokal, 1994.

The paper is 
http://www.physics.nyu.edu/faculty/sokal/transgress_v2/transgress_v2_singlefile.html

A good write up is at 
http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/sokal.html

Also see

http://www.info.ucl.ac.be/people/PVR/decon.html

One of my relatives is a Po-Mo professor in Chicago.  I try not to talk
to him much.

--- CHS

On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 18:58, tfreeman at intel.digichem.net wrote:
> Yep. Bad idea. OTOH, should you be able to string all of those hot 
buttons together into a single, largely comprehensable post. people
might appreciate some sharing off list. 8-). Should you manage to
actually write something like that, and have it come off as a serious
post, I'm sure the group will be happy to award you a large ( >2 )number
of Loki points.

> I wish I could remember the physicist up around New York who did
something similar to the supposedly liberal academic establishment ten
years ago or  so. Managed to get a paper past a journal editor, ?peer
review?, which when properly read had zero content, just a monumental
pile of buzz words, hot buttons, and devilish syntax. Also made more
than a few people upset.


<<snip>>


From bmacleod at guc.usg.edu  Tue Jan 25 09:49:07 2005
From: bmacleod at guc.usg.edu (Brian MacLeod)
Date: Tue Jan 25 09:49:07 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
Message-ID: <84A4AD5B2983944780FBCFEE30EBF504071D9E@ravenclaw.solitude.guc.usg.edu>

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On 
> Behalf Of Jim Popovitch
> Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 7:18 PM

> This can not possibly be true.  Laws are passed by a 
> legislature, enforced by an governmental body.  Police do not 
> arrest someone who solely ignores a contract.


Actually, it is.  Laws are simply social contracts to behave in certain
ways, and if someone violates their contract with society, then they are
subject to the penalties described within.  A contract between entities
in the United States is looked upon as being law between the parties
involved, assuming that no stipulation in the contract is in itself
illegal, including the penalties for violating it.  Yeah, you cannot
send the police to enforce a contract, but you can go to court and have
them send the police on your behalf, if it needs to come to that.


> This is much different.  55/65 is the law established by an 
> elected legislative body, and enforced by an infrastructure 
> run by an elected official or an appointee of an elected 
> official.  It's worth nothing that enforcement of 55/65 has 
> more to do with department policy than officers themselves.


Splitting hairs.  It's still a choice of enforcement.


> They will send the police after me?  Not.  They *might* 
> choose to sue me in civil court but would probably just 
> disconnect my service.  At that point, theft of service would 
> be criminal and fully enforceable.
> However, contract interpretation disputes, over a mutually 
> agreed upon service, are something entirely different.


No, they'll just cut your connection and the business relationship.
Then if you want to fight it, it'll be your time and your expense, so
they have you over a barrel on this if they choose to enforce.


> The fact that I am maxing out my connection is no indicator 
> of the number of PCs/devices.  A standard PC these days has a 
> 100MB ethernet interface on it.  A cable modem just couldn't keep up.

> What if I am running a quad-processor PC or Virtual machines? 
>  What about a clustered setup?  The possibilities for 
> interpretation are endless.  The logic just isn't there to 
> back any contractual words, therefore negating any enforceability.
> 
> Here is the list of Comcast *supported* cable interface devices:
> http://www.comcast.com/Support/Corp1/FAQ/FaqDetail_2427.html
> Are you telling me that full use of 50% of those devices 
> violates my contact with Comcast?  Not.


No, that's not at all what I was saying.  I was saying that if you pull
your full bandwidth for more than 80% of a day, every day, you are going
to be suspected of having more than one machine, and for good reason.
And if the cost of providing you that much used bandwidth costs them
more money than the cost they expect for lines on average, they will
want to keep their profit margin, and will dump you as a customer using
that very clause.  That's why it is there.  It's not because they really
have a problem with people connecting multiple machines, it is because
they want to have an out if they get some serious bandwidth hogs.

bnm


From kafka at antichri.st  Tue Jan 25 09:50:52 2005
From: kafka at antichri.st (George Carless)
Date: Tue Jan 25 09:50:52 2005
Subject: [ale] wget oddity grabbing pages with URL parameters
Message-ID: <20050125144156.GB21932@antichri.st>

Hi all,

I'm having a little strange behaviour with wget... I'm trying to grab some pages from our 
CMS-based intranet site, using the following:

wget -nH -r --level=1 -I valuemap --directory-prefix=/home/httpd/oursite/ http://oursite.com/valuemap/index.html

The problem is, it's grabbing all of the pages, BUT when it does so it seems not to be grabbing any 
pages properly when they're in the format index.html?_function=detail&_op=1234 (which is what my 
CMS uses in this case).  The pages ARE downloaded--I wind up with a bunch of files with the 
appropriate file names, but each one has the content of the MAIN index.html as it would return if 
no url parameters were passed.  (i.e. my app returns different content depending on the value of 
$_GET["_function"], in PHP terminology).

BUT if I wget the pages manually - e.g. "wget 
http://oursite.com/valuemap/index.html?_function=detail\&_op=1234" - the page is returned 
correctly.

Any of you smart folks have any idea what might be happening here?

Thanks,
--George

--------------------------------------
George Carless ... kafka at antichri.st
Words are just dust in deserts of sound


From FishR at bellsouth.net  Tue Jan 25 10:00:18 2005
From: FishR at bellsouth.net (Ryan Fish)
Date: Tue Jan 25 10:00:18 2005
Subject: [ale] Sendmail latency
References: <20050125041900.46365.qmail@web60708.mail.yahoo.com><053d01c50297$4c75c130$59b4fea9@win2kpro1><054601c5029b$08e2e0c0$59b4fea9@win2kpro1><1106631883.12632.9.camel@blue>
	<41F63B96.5030309@3times25.net><05c401c502e7$c3243c80$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<1106663161.14585.2.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <05e201c502ed$93b3dc70$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>

> On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 09:11 -0500, Ryan Fish wrote:
> > - All boxes have some combination of the following in /etc/resolv.conf.
All
> > of them contain the first three and at least one of the NS provided by
the
> > ISP:
> >
> > search clientdomain.com
> > nameserver 192.168.3.222
> > nameserver 192.168.3.220
> > nameserver 192.168.3.219
> > nameserver 66.179.XXX.XXX  - ISP nameserver
> > nameserver 66.179.XXX.XXX  - ISP nameserver
> > nameserver 66.179.XX.XXX  - NS provided by data center used by client
> > nameserver 66.179.XX.XXX  - NS provided by data center used by client
> > nameserver 216.183.XXX.XXX  - NS provided by data center used by client
> > namserver 192.168.1.10
>
> I am 99% convinvced that what you need is a local caching name server on
> the mailserver.  Add it, then put 127.0.0.1 as your first nameserver
> in /etc/resolv.conf.

- Is there any way to see if such a thing is already in place yet just not
"on"?  Also, named.conf is used on the mail server and holds dns information
for all of the domains hosted by this client.  Therefore, I still do not
feel good about renaming it and starting over with something new...

Another observation/question...  It appears as though sendmail is only
accepting a single connection as I never see more than one instance of it
running at any one time.  I have worded, to a lesser degree, with mail
servers using sendmail in the past and am accustomed to seeing multiple
copies of sendmail listed when I do a "top" or "ps ax|grep mail".  Sendmail
should accept multiple connections by default so what, if anything, would
keep it from doing so in 8.12.11-4?

The Java app in use is multi-threaded and therefore, uses at least 5
single-threaded agents at one time to send msgs to the mail server for
sendmail to handle.  However, at this time, only one of those agents is
allowed to be active at one time...



From pras at cycloeastern.com  Tue Jan 25 10:05:49 2005
From: pras at cycloeastern.com (pras at cycloeastern.com)
Date: Tue Jan 25 10:05:49 2005
Subject: [ale] wget oddity grabbing pages with URL parameters
In-Reply-To: <20050125144156.GB21932@antichri.st>
References: <20050125144156.GB21932@antichri.st>
Message-ID: <20050125153904.GB22846@cycloeastern.com>


Dont know why that happens. However I have noticed that it also does not translate %20 to spaces.

On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 09:41:56AM -0500, George Carless wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm having a little strange behaviour with wget... I'm trying to grab some pages from our 
> CMS-based intranet site, using the following:
> 
> wget -nH -r --level=1 -I valuemap --directory-prefix=/home/httpd/oursite/ http://oursite.com/valuemap/index.html
> 
> The problem is, it's grabbing all of the pages, BUT when it does so it seems not to be grabbing any 
> pages properly when they're in the format index.html?_function=detail&_op=1234 (which is what my 
> CMS uses in this case).  The pages ARE downloaded--I wind up with a bunch of files with the 
> appropriate file names, but each one has the content of the MAIN index.html as it would return if 
> no url parameters were passed.  (i.e. my app returns different content depending on the value of 
> $_GET["_function"], in PHP terminology).
> 
> BUT if I wget the pages manually - e.g. "wget 
> http://oursite.com/valuemap/index.html?_function=detail\&_op=1234" - the page is returned 
> correctly.
> 
> Any of you smart folks have any idea what might be happening here?
> 
> Thanks,
> --George
> 
> --------------------------------------
> George Carless ... kafka at antichri.st
> Words are just dust in deserts of sound
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From aaron at pd.org  Tue Jan 25 10:16:58 2005
From: aaron at pd.org (aaron)
Date: Tue Jan 25 10:16:58 2005
Subject: [ale] Consumer Rights Legal Issues presentation [was: Seeking LVM
	presentation]
In-Reply-To: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465C994@germanium.numethods.com>
References: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465C994@germanium.numethods.com>
Message-ID: <200501250510.03313.aaron@pd.org>

On Tuesday 25 January 2005 08:32, Michael Hirsch wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
> > Jim Popovitch 
> > On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 10:40 -0500, Michael Hirsch wrote:
> > > ALE Central has no speaker for February, and later dates are
> > > available  too.

[-- Except we do...  :-) ]
 
> > Since ALE Central meets in the Law Library at Emory it shouldn't
> > be hard to find a knowledgeable professor to explain/discuss contract
> > law as it pertains to in-home broadband usage (consumer rights),
> > DeCSS (trademark/copyright violations), etc.
> >  I volunteer to do the legwork to locate a resource, anyone interested in 
> > hearing what they would have to say?
> 
> You get the speaker, we'll let him/her/it speak.  There's lots of interest.

It was just last October (04) that Doug Bridges gave the ALE Central meeting a 
wonderful overview of I.P. law that covered a lot of territory in fair use 
and trademark. Perhaps he would be willing to follow up on these more 
specific issues?

I will also bring this up with EFGA tonight. These are topic areas they 
regularly address in both legislative and legal domains and they may be able 
to provide some speaker ideas.

As a related heads up, EFGA is in planning for a presentation about Anti-Spam 
suites and legislation by a leading lawyer in the area. Tentative date is 
Feb. 15th, and I should have confirmations and details to post by tomorrow.

peace
aaron



From jasonday at worldnet.att.net  Tue Jan 25 10:18:51 2005
From: jasonday at worldnet.att.net (Jason Day)
Date: Tue Jan 25 10:18:51 2005
Subject: [ale] How to proxy a web app via Apache & SSH?
In-Reply-To: <41F2D0E9.2090103@proteus-tech.com>
References: <41F2D0E9.2090103@proteus-tech.com>
Message-ID: <20050125151418.GK7913@worldnet.att.net>

On Sat, Jan 22, 2005 at 05:17:13PM -0500, Benjamin Scherrey wrote:
>    So... my idea is that I would like to be able to use ssh port 
> forwarding to make it appear that my application is running on the 
> internet server. My user should be able to go to www.myserver.com/myapp 
> and have my apache webserver redirect this request via ssh to my inhouse 
> machine. This will give me a secure connection to my internal host 
> without having to setup SSL or give away my internal static IP address 
> to users. Does Apache have this capability? Is my idea a valid one or 
> more of a PITA than its worth?

Ben,

You might be able to do this using Apache's mod_proxy to setup a reverse
proxy on your web server.  I've never tried this, but if you setup an
ssh tunnel like:

  ssh -L 8000:your.ip.com:80 your.ip.com

Then setup mod_proxy to forward requests to localhost:8000.  You also
might be able to use mod_rewrite, that might be easier to setup.

Here's an article on reverse proxies:
http://www.apacheweek.com/features/reverseproxies

Also, man ssh_config and checkout the ServerAliveInterval and
ServerAliveCountMax options, to keep your ssh tunnel from timing out.

HTH,
Jason
-- 
Jason Day                                       jasonday at
http://jasonday.home.att.net                    worldnet dot att dot net
 
"Of course I'm paranoid, everyone is trying to kill me."
    -- Weyoun-6, Star Trek: Deep Space 9


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 25 10:21:38 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Tue Jan 25 10:21:38 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <84A4AD5B2983944780FBCFEE30EBF504071D9E@ravenclaw.solitude.guc.usg.edu>
References: <84A4AD5B2983944780FBCFEE30EBF504071D9E@ravenclaw.solitude.guc.usg.edu>
Message-ID: <1106666080.14585.34.camel@blue>

On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 09:40 -0500, Brian MacLeod wrote:
> > 
> > Here is the list of Comcast *supported* cable interface devices:
> > http://www.comcast.com/Support/Corp1/FAQ/FaqDetail_2427.html
> > Are you telling me that full use of 50% of those devices 
> > violates my contact with Comcast?  Not.
>
> No, that's not at all what I was saying.  I was saying that if you pull
> your full bandwidth for more than 80% of a day, every day, you are going
> to be suspected of having more than one machine, and for good reason.

But you and/or others have said that it's the amount of equipment not
the bandwidth used.  Your previous logic was that 2 machines NOT using
any bandwidth was a violation of some contract, one that nobody can seem
to provide a sample of.   The 80% has nothing to do with quantity of
equipment in the home, and everything to do with usage (even one
computer is capable of useing 80% of a 3Mb download).

All the while the industry is rushing to embrace things like CableLabs'
CableHome standard (http://www.cablelabs.com/projects/cablehome).  Fully
embraced by Comcast and many others.  Google for "CableHome".

Here are some quotes from this URL:
http://www.wi-fiplanet.com/columns/article.php/3358841

"Comcast holds customer privacy in the highest regard," says company
spokesperson Jeanne Russo. "For customers who prefer to independently
configure and manage their own networks, that option remains in place as
well."

Consumers concerned about the privacy of their home network can opt to
install another router or install the network themselves, according to
Matt Donaruma, another Comcast spokeperson.

"I think the privacy stuff is hugely overblown," says Joe Laszlo,
analyst with JupiterResearch. "There's no sign that Comcast can or will
prevent you from running your own home network with gear separate from
their integrated Linksys modem/router." 

"The paranoid can just go out and buy their own Wi-Fi stuff and operate
as normal," he says.

The analyst says Comcast would be "foolish" if they snooped on customers
or broke their Vonage VoIP connection, for instance.

Although it would technologically be simple to break streaming
multimedia or VoIP from a competitor, "the risk of a backlash is too
great," says Laszlo.

Like the others, Mike Wolf, analyst with In-Stat/MDR dismisses any
privacy concerns regarding the Comcast deal. The analyst calls the fears
"unfounded."

Of greater interest to the analysts in the announcement is the growing
trend toward consolidation of devices, such as the combined 802.11g
router and cable modem offered by Linksys. 

"The future of home networks will be all-in-one," says Wolf. 

-Jim P.





From FishR at bellsouth.net  Tue Jan 25 10:23:39 2005
From: FishR at bellsouth.net (Ryan Fish)
Date: Tue Jan 25 10:23:39 2005
Subject: [ale] Sendmail latency
References: <20050125041900.46365.qmail@web60708.mail.yahoo.com><053d01c50297$4c75c130$59b4fea9@win2kpro1><054601c5029b$08e2e0c0$59b4fea9@win2kpro1><1106631883.12632.9.camel@blue>
	<41F63B96.5030309@3times25.net><05c401c502e7$c3243c80$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<1106663161.14585.2.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <05f401c502f1$49abb1d0$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Popovitch" <jimpop at yahoo.com>
To: "Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts" <ale at ale.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: [ale] Sendmail latency


> On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 09:11 -0500, Ryan Fish wrote:
> > - All boxes have some combination of the following in /etc/resolv.conf.
All
> > of them contain the first three and at least one of the NS provided by
the
> > ISP:
> >
> > search clientdomain.com
> > nameserver 192.168.3.222
> > nameserver 192.168.3.220
> > nameserver 192.168.3.219
> > nameserver 66.179.XXX.XXX  - ISP nameserver
> > nameserver 66.179.XXX.XXX  - ISP nameserver
> > nameserver 66.179.XX.XXX  - NS provided by data center used by client
> > nameserver 66.179.XX.XXX  - NS provided by data center used by client
> > nameserver 216.183.XXX.XXX  - NS provided by data center used by client
> > namserver 192.168.1.10
>
> I am 99% convinvced that what you need is a local caching name server on
> the mailserver.  Add it, then put 127.0.0.1 as your first nameserver
> in /etc/resolv.conf.


- After viewing /etc/named.conf again it appears it is setup for caching
already as there is line stating "a caching only nameserver config" at the
top of the file.  I could be wrong though...



From jimpop at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 25 10:43:44 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Tue Jan 25 10:43:44 2005
Subject: [ale] Sendmail latency
In-Reply-To: <05e201c502ed$93b3dc70$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
References: <20050125041900.46365.qmail@web60708.mail.yahoo.com>
	<053d01c50297$4c75c130$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<054601c5029b$08e2e0c0$59b4fea9@win2kpro1><1106631883.12632.9.camel@blue>
	<41F63B96.5030309@3times25.net><05c401c502e7$c3243c80$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<1106663161.14585.2.camel@blue>
	<05e201c502ed$93b3dc70$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
Message-ID: <1106667327.14585.50.camel@blue>

On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 09:53 -0500, Ryan Fish wrote:
> > I am 99% convinvced that what you need is a local caching name server on
> > the mailserver.  Add it, then put 127.0.0.1 as your first nameserver
> > in /etc/resolv.conf.
> 
> - Is there any way to see if such a thing is already in place yet just not
> "on"?  Also, named.conf is used on the mail server and holds dns information
> for all of the domains hosted by this client.  Therefore, I still do not
> feel good about renaming it and starting over with something new...

One way to tell is whether you get results for 

  #host www.test.com 127.0.0.1

Another would be to check that "allow-recursion" is setup for 127.0.0.1
in named.conf.  Finally look for the zone "*.*" in named.conf.

I would also verify that the "forwards" section of named.conf has the
correct upstream nameservers identified.

> Another observation/question...  It appears as though sendmail is only
> accepting a single connection as I never see more than one instance of it
> running at any one time.  I have worded, to a lesser degree, with mail
> servers using sendmail in the past and am accustomed to seeing multiple
> copies of sendmail listed when I do a "top" or "ps ax|grep mail".  Sendmail
> should accept multiple connections by default so what, if anything, would
> keep it from doing so in 8.12.11-4?

By most defaults, there will be 1 sendmail process to listen to port
eth0 port 25, and 2nd process to handle /var/spool/clientmqueue/.
Additionally sendmail will spawn processes (up until
max_daemon_children) to handle queue delivery.  Is it possible that the
senmail upgrade overwrote your previous sendmail.cf file?  Check the
date on /etc/mail/sendmail.cf 

> The Java app in use is multi-threaded and therefore, uses at least 5
> single-threaded agents at one time to send msgs to the mail server for
> sendmail to handle.  However, at this time, only one of those agents is
> allowed to be active at one time...

That could be your problem.  Sendmail should allow simultaneous inbound
connections (up to connection_rate_throttle).  Is the Java app doing a
lot of dns lookups?  Is the Java app server DNS-resolvable from the
sendmail box?

-Jim P.




From aaron at pd.org  Tue Jan 25 10:56:18 2005
From: aaron at pd.org (aaron)
Date: Tue Jan 25 10:56:18 2005
Subject: [ale] the new browser war
Message-ID: <200501250548.46936.aaron@pd.org>

----------  Forwarded Message  ----------

Subject: the new browser war
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 17:27:43 -0500
From: <synners at pd.org>

"Smoke, Mirrors and Silence: The Browser Wars Reignite"

http://www.informit.com/articles/article.asp?p=174156

==
The article is a little dated but a good perspective. It is also long, but 
after one covers the introduction, the last 2 sections are hitting the hard 
points.

http://www.informit.com/articles/article.asp?p=174156&seqNum=5
(Everything Old Is New Again)

http://www.informit.com/articles/article.asp?p=174156&seqNum=6
(And So, to the New Breach)
-------------------------------------------------------


From pete.hardie at gmail.com  Tue Jan 25 11:03:33 2005
From: pete.hardie at gmail.com (Pete Hardie)
Date: Tue Jan 25 11:03:33 2005
Subject: [ale] Critters in the Attic
In-Reply-To: <200501250859.02301.dcorbin@enttek.com>
References: <200501250859.02301.dcorbin@enttek.com>
Message-ID: <31b322400501250757212c3391@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 08:59:02 -0500, David Corbin <dcorbin at enttek.com> wrote:
> We have critters in the attic.  Unfortunately, they don't seem to want to be
> caught by our rat traps (cages sized for Noregian Roof Rats, which we've had
> before).  So, I assume it's something larger.  What I really need is to know
> where they're entering the attic, so I can seal it.
> 
> But wait you say, this is a Linux list.  I have an old P133 system that I just
> shut down.  I had this thought - what inexpensive peripherals could I add
> to this box to help me solve it?
> 
> I was thinking I could put the box in the attic (winter fortunately), and put
> a cheap camera on it.  I'd need some type of flash/strobe, or it would have
> to be an IR-capabel camera (they only seem active at night, so even low-light
> won't help).  If it's a still-camera, I'd need a motion sensor, though that
> might be good either way.


Two suggestions

1) light - try leaving your attic light on.  If you don't have one, a
worklight could be run from an outlet.  This will either drive them
out, or let you see them better

2) ingress - probably via eaves, or vents.  Hardware cloth over any
hole larger than your pinky-nail.  I found a gutter screen mesh that's
pretty cheap, easy to trim, and comes in convenient lengths for attic
work at Home Depot.

-- 
Better Living Through Bitmaps


From matthew.brown at cordata.com  Tue Jan 25 11:08:30 2005
From: matthew.brown at cordata.com (Matthew Brown)
Date: Tue Jan 25 11:08:30 2005
Subject: [ale] Critters in the Attic
In-Reply-To: <31b322400501250757212c3391@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200501250859.02301.dcorbin@enttek.com>
	<31b322400501250757212c3391@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41F66DAC.2050602@cordata.com>

Moth balls.  Put a few in the attic here and there.  Be careful though.  
I nearly gassed my family by putting a whole box of them up there.  
ALSO, put them where you can easily remove them when they've done their job.

DISCLAIMER:  I have no idea how toxic this might be, I only know it 
worked well for me.

Matthew Brown, CorData
Linux Solutions for Small Business
o: 770-795-0089
e: matthew.brown at cordata.com



Pete Hardie wrote:

>On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 08:59:02 -0500, David Corbin <dcorbin at enttek.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>We have critters in the attic.  Unfortunately, they don't seem to want to be
>>caught by our rat traps (cages sized for Noregian Roof Rats, which we've had
>>before).  So, I assume it's something larger.  What I really need is to know
>>where they're entering the attic, so I can seal it.
>>
>>But wait you say, this is a Linux list.  I have an old P133 system that I just
>>shut down.  I had this thought - what inexpensive peripherals could I add
>>to this box to help me solve it?
>>
>>I was thinking I could put the box in the attic (winter fortunately), and put
>>a cheap camera on it.  I'd need some type of flash/strobe, or it would have
>>to be an IR-capabel camera (they only seem active at night, so even low-light
>>won't help).  If it's a still-camera, I'd need a motion sensor, though that
>>might be good either way.
>>    
>>
>
>
>Two suggestions
>
>1) light - try leaving your attic light on.  If you don't have one, a
>worklight could be run from an outlet.  This will either drive them
>out, or let you see them better
>
>2) ingress - probably via eaves, or vents.  Hardware cloth over any
>hole larger than your pinky-nail.  I found a gutter screen mesh that's
>pretty cheap, easy to trim, and comes in convenient lengths for attic
>work at Home Depot.
>
>  
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...



From FishR at bellsouth.net  Tue Jan 25 11:10:34 2005
From: FishR at bellsouth.net (Ryan Fish)
Date: Tue Jan 25 11:10:34 2005
Subject: [ale] Sendmail latency
References: <20050125041900.46365.qmail@web60708.mail.yahoo.com><053d01c50297$4c75c130$59b4fea9@win2kpro1><054601c5029b$08e2e0c0$59b4fea9@win2kpro1><1106631883.12632.9.camel@blue><41F63B96.5030309@3times25.net><05c401c502e7$c3243c80$59b4fea9@win2kpro1><1106663161.14585.2.camel@blue><05e201c502ed$93b3dc70$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<1106667327.14585.50.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <061e01c502f8$1c3b4b00$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>

> On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 09:53 -0500, Ryan Fish wrote:
> > > I am 99% convinvced that what you need is a local caching name server
on
> > > the mailserver.  Add it, then put 127.0.0.1 as your first nameserver
> > > in /etc/resolv.conf.
> >
> > - Is there any way to see if such a thing is already in place yet just
not
> > "on"?  Also, named.conf is used on the mail server and holds dns
information
> > for all of the domains hosted by this client.  Therefore, I still do not
> > feel good about renaming it and starting over with something new...
>
> One way to tell is whether you get results for
>
>   #host www.test.com 127.0.0.1

[root at mailserver mail]# host www.test.com 127.0.0.1
Using domain server:
Name: 127.0.0.1
Address: 127.0.0.1#53
Aliases:

www.test.com has address 208.48.34.132


>
> Another would be to check that "allow-recursion" is setup for 127.0.0.1
> in named.conf.  Finally look for the zone "*.*" in named.conf.

};
controls {
        inet 127.0.0.1 allow { localhost; } keys { rndckey; };
};
include  "/etc/rndc.key";
zone "." {
        type hint;
        file "named.ca";
};
zone "localhost" {
        allow-update { none; };
        type master;
        file "localhost.zone";
};
zone "0.0.127.in-addr.arpa" {
        allow-update { none; };
        type master;
        file "named.local";
};



>
> I would also verify that the "forwards" section of named.conf has the
> correct upstream nameservers identified.

I find nothing regarding "forwards" in named.conf


>
> > Another observation/question...  It appears as though sendmail is only
> > accepting a single connection as I never see more than one instance of
it
> > running at any one time.  I have worded, to a lesser degree, with mail
> > servers using sendmail in the past and am accustomed to seeing multiple
> > copies of sendmail listed when I do a "top" or "ps ax|grep mail".
Sendmail
> > should accept multiple connections by default so what, if anything,
would
> > keep it from doing so in 8.12.11-4?
>
> By most defaults, there will be 1 sendmail process to listen to port
> eth0 port 25, and 2nd process to handle /var/spool/clientmqueue/.
> Additionally sendmail will spawn processes (up until
> max_daemon_children) to handle queue delivery.  Is it possible that the
> senmail upgrade overwrote your previous sendmail.cf file?  Check the
> date on /etc/mail/sendmail.cf

- The sendmail processes must be working "right" then.
- sendmail.cf is dated 14JAN05 (I made a slight change to it that day per
something I found online.


>
> > The Java app in use is multi-threaded and therefore, uses at least 5
> > single-threaded agents at one time to send msgs to the mail server for
> > sendmail to handle.  However, at this time, only one of those agents is
> > allowed to be active at one time...
>
> That could be your problem.  Sendmail should allow simultaneous inbound
> connections (up to connection_rate_throttle).  Is the Java app doing a
> lot of dns lookups?  Is the Java app server DNS-resolvable from the
> sendmail box?

- I am not certain if the Java app is performing several DNS lookups as I
have to access to it.
- I can successfully 'host' the app server from the mail server (it is .220)
via forward dns but not reverse.

The client tried using the IP address of the mail server in their code and
found the same issue to exist.  Therefore it doesn't appear to be a reverse
DNS issue to me (at least at this point).



From bmacleod at guc.usg.edu  Tue Jan 25 11:22:19 2005
From: bmacleod at guc.usg.edu (Brian MacLeod)
Date: Tue Jan 25 11:22:19 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
Message-ID: <84A4AD5B2983944780FBCFEE30EBF504071D9F@ravenclaw.solitude.guc.usg.edu>

> But you and/or others have said that it's the amount of 
> equipment not the bandwidth used.  Your previous logic was 
> that 2 machines NOT using any bandwidth was a violation of 
> some contract, one that nobody can seem
> to provide a sample of.   The 80% has nothing to do with quantity of
> equipment in the home, and everything to do with usage (even 
> one computer is capable of useing 80% of a 3Mb download).


I never argued equipment, other than what the contract itself states.  I
also meant 100% of a 3mb download bandwidth, 80% of 24 hrs, on a
constant daily basis.  Huge difference in numbers.

If you're pulling that much bandwidth, you're costing them more than
they have provisioned (not more than you are paying, mind you).


---HUGE SNIP---

I'm simply arguing that the reason the provision of one device is in
there is for bandwidth hogs who eat more bandwidth than the company
provisioned for.  It gives them an easy out.  No more, no less.


From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Tue Jan 25 11:29:57 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Tue Jan 25 11:29:57 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <1106666080.14585.34.camel@blue>
References: <84A4AD5B2983944780FBCFEE30EBF504071D9E@ravenclaw.solitude.guc.usg.edu>
	<1106666080.14585.34.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <1106670310.9293.34.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>

Call Comcast and tell them you plan on using a broadband router with a
few PC's attached.  See if you have to pay the extra fee.

We're not discussing the fact that there may be more people doing that
way instead of paying.  We are talking about what *exactly* is in your
terms of service.

Sure it may be a way for Comcast to make a few extra bucks with
uneducated consumers but you are expected to play by the rules like
them.




On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 10:14, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 09:40 -0500, Brian MacLeod wrote:
> > > 
> > > Here is the list of Comcast *supported* cable interface devices:
> > > http://www.comcast.com/Support/Corp1/FAQ/FaqDetail_2427.html
> > > Are you telling me that full use of 50% of those devices 
> > > violates my contact with Comcast?  Not.
> >
> > No, that's not at all what I was saying.  I was saying that if you pull
> > your full bandwidth for more than 80% of a day, every day, you are going
> > to be suspected of having more than one machine, and for good reason.
> 
> But you and/or others have said that it's the amount of equipment not
> the bandwidth used.  Your previous logic was that 2 machines NOT using
> any bandwidth was a violation of some contract, one that nobody can seem
> to provide a sample of.   The 80% has nothing to do with quantity of
> equipment in the home, and everything to do with usage (even one
> computer is capable of useing 80% of a 3Mb download).
> 
> All the while the industry is rushing to embrace things like CableLabs'
> CableHome standard (http://www.cablelabs.com/projects/cablehome).  Fully
> embraced by Comcast and many others.  Google for "CableHome".
> 
> Here are some quotes from this URL:
> http://www.wi-fiplanet.com/columns/article.php/3358841
> 
> "Comcast holds customer privacy in the highest regard," says company
> spokesperson Jeanne Russo. "For customers who prefer to independently
> configure and manage their own networks, that option remains in place as
> well."
> 
> Consumers concerned about the privacy of their home network can opt to
> install another router or install the network themselves, according to
> Matt Donaruma, another Comcast spokeperson.
> 
> "I think the privacy stuff is hugely overblown," says Joe Laszlo,
> analyst with JupiterResearch. "There's no sign that Comcast can or will
> prevent you from running your own home network with gear separate from
> their integrated Linksys modem/router." 
> 
> "The paranoid can just go out and buy their own Wi-Fi stuff and operate
> as normal," he says.
> 
> The analyst says Comcast would be "foolish" if they snooped on customers
> or broke their Vonage VoIP connection, for instance.
> 
> Although it would technologically be simple to break streaming
> multimedia or VoIP from a competitor, "the risk of a backlash is too
> great," says Laszlo.
> 
> Like the others, Mike Wolf, analyst with In-Stat/MDR dismisses any
> privacy concerns regarding the Comcast deal. The analyst calls the fears
> "unfounded."
> 
> Of greater interest to the analysts in the announcement is the growing
> trend toward consolidation of devices, such as the combined 802.11g
> router and cable modem offered by Linksys. 
> 
> "The future of home networks will be all-in-one," says Wolf. 
> 
> -Jim P.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From FishR at bellsouth.net  Tue Jan 25 11:44:24 2005
From: FishR at bellsouth.net (Ryan Fish)
Date: Tue Jan 25 11:44:24 2005
Subject: [ale] Sendmail latency
References: <20050125041900.46365.qmail@web60708.mail.yahoo.com><053d01c50297$4c75c130$59b4fea9@win2kpro1><054601c5029b$08e2e0c0$59b4fea9@win2kpro1><1106631883.12632.9.camel@blue><41F63B96.5030309@3times25.net><05c401c502e7$c3243c80$59b4fea9@win2kpro1><1106663161.14585.2.camel@blue><05e201c502ed$93b3dc70$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<1106667327.14585.50.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <063301c502fc$3e21bde0$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>

> > Another observation/question...  It appears as though sendmail is only
> > accepting a single connection as I never see more than one instance of
it
> > running at any one time.  I have worded, to a lesser degree, with mail
> > servers using sendmail in the past and am accustomed to seeing multiple
> > copies of sendmail listed when I do a "top" or "ps ax|grep mail".
Sendmail
> > should accept multiple connections by default so what, if anything,
would
> > keep it from doing so in 8.12.11-4?
>
> By most defaults, there will be 1 sendmail process to listen to port
> eth0 port 25, and 2nd process to handle /var/spool/clientmqueue/.
> Additionally sendmail will spawn processes (up until
> max_daemon_children) to handle queue delivery.  Is it possible that the
> senmail upgrade overwrote your previous sendmail.cf file?  Check the
> date on /etc/mail/sendmail.cf
>
> > The Java app in use is multi-threaded and therefore, uses at least 5
> > single-threaded agents at one time to send msgs to the mail server for
> > sendmail to handle.  However, at this time, only one of those agents is
> > allowed to be active at one time...
>
> That could be your problem.  Sendmail should allow simultaneous inbound
> connections (up to connection_rate_throttle).  Is the Java app doing a
> lot of dns lookups?  Is the Java app server DNS-resolvable from the
> sendmail box?



Where are 'max_daemon_children' and 'connection_rate_throttle' set?  I can't
find them in sendmail.cf or sendmail.mc...



From jimpop at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 25 11:45:49 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Tue Jan 25 11:45:49 2005
Subject: [ale] Sendmail latency
In-Reply-To: <061e01c502f8$1c3b4b00$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
References: <20050125041900.46365.qmail@web60708.mail.yahoo.com>
	<053d01c50297$4c75c130$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<054601c5029b$08e2e0c0$59b4fea9@win2kpro1><1106631883.12632.9.camel@blue>
	<41F63B96.5030309@3times25.net><05c401c502e7$c3243c80$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<1106663161.14585.2.camel@blue><05e201c502ed$93b3dc70$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<1106667327.14585.50.camel@blue>
	<061e01c502f8$1c3b4b00$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
Message-ID: <1106670862.14585.63.camel@blue>

On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 11:08 -0500, Ryan Fish wrote:
> > I would also verify that the "forwards" section of named.conf has the
> > correct upstream nameservers identified.
> 
> I find nothing regarding "forwards" in named.conf

Without a forwards section your DNS requests will all go the the root
DNS servers (not a real good idea).  Does your hosting/IP provider
provide DNS servers for you to use?  These would/should be much faster
then querying the roots.

Here is an example of a forwarders statement:

  forwarders { 192.168.10.10; 192.168.100.10; };

I would also recommend that you change /etc/resolv.conf to this:

   search <your_domain>
   nameserver 127.0.0.1
   nameserver 192.168.10.10  <- replace this with your providers DNS
   nameserver 192.168.100.10  <- replace this with your providers DNS

> 
> - The sendmail processes must be working "right" then.

Sendmail *never* works right, most folks are just lucky. ;-)

-Jim P.




From jimpop at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 25 11:51:21 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Tue Jan 25 11:51:21 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <1106670310.9293.34.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
References: <84A4AD5B2983944780FBCFEE30EBF504071D9E@ravenclaw.solitude.guc.usg.edu>
	<1106666080.14585.34.camel@blue>
	<1106670310.9293.34.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
Message-ID: <1106671533.14585.74.camel@blue>

On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 11:25 -0500, Christopher Fowler wrote:
> Call Comcast and tell them you plan on using a broadband router with a
> few PC's attached.  See if you have to pay the extra fee.

My experience with them (phone calls, tech visits, friends, business
acquaintances) over the years is that they only care about home
networking when it is their product in side your home.  To Comcast "Home
Networking" is a product (with a deliverable WCG200, same as the one I
bought at CompUSA) not a concept.  Onsite techs will demand a single PC
to use to setup the service, unless they are setting up their WCG200,
after that you are on your own (normal bandwidth usage assumed).

The fact that Comcast will gladly take $5 more per month provides no
validity to the argument.  The issue is can they command $5 more per
month when they are not providing an increase in hardware, bandwidth,
IPs, or services.

Throw Vonage into this mix and all of a sudden everybody has yet another
IP'ed device (assuming non-softphone setup) on their home network.  Is
that a violation of Comcast's EULA?  Potentially depending on your
interpretation of their EULA.  Do I as a consumer have the right to have
Vonage service over Comcast?  Absolutely!, no questions asked.  My sole
point is that the clarity of the later issue supersedes any ambiguity in
the prior.

-Jim P.






From FishR at bellsouth.net  Tue Jan 25 12:07:20 2005
From: FishR at bellsouth.net (Ryan Fish)
Date: Tue Jan 25 12:07:20 2005
Subject: [ale] Sendmail latency
References: <20050125041900.46365.qmail@web60708.mail.yahoo.com><053d01c50297$4c75c130$59b4fea9@win2kpro1><054601c5029b$08e2e0c0$59b4fea9@win2kpro1><1106631883.12632.9.camel@blue><41F63B96.5030309@3times25.net><05c401c502e7$c3243c80$59b4fea9@win2kpro1><1106663161.14585.2.camel@blue><05e201c502ed$93b3dc70$59b4fea9@win2kpro1><1106667327.14585.50.camel@blue><061e01c502f8$1c3b4b00$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<1106670862.14585.63.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <063b01c50300$3a258d30$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>

> On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 11:08 -0500, Ryan Fish wrote:
> > > I would also verify that the "forwards" section of named.conf has the
> > > correct upstream nameservers identified.
> >
> > I find nothing regarding "forwards" in named.conf
>
> Without a forwards section your DNS requests will all go the the root
> DNS servers (not a real good idea).  Does your hosting/IP provider
> provide DNS servers for you to use?  These would/should be much faster
> then querying the roots.
>
> Here is an example of a forwarders statement:
>
>   forwarders { 192.168.10.10; 192.168.100.10; };

- Where would I add this to named.conf?


>
> I would also recommend that you change /etc/resolv.conf to this:
>
>    search <your_domain>
>    nameserver 127.0.0.1
>    nameserver 192.168.10.10  <- replace this with your providers DNS
>    nameserver 192.168.100.10  <- replace this with your providers DNS

- If I place the ISP's NS before the local NS (192.168.3.X) I receive
transient parse errors when attempting to send msgs from the mail server.
It is also VERY slow when I do that (I tried that on 14JAN05).


>
> >
> > - The sendmail processes must be working "right" then.
>
> Sendmail *never* works right, most folks are just lucky. ;-)


Hence, the quotes around the word right...  :)




It appears this entire ordeal could be caused by a message being "stuck" in
one of the five queues used by the JavaMail API in their Java app.  They
restarted their app just a bit ago and three of the five queues cleared out
in seconds while the other two just sat there for some reason.  To be quite
honest, I hope this is the case!!!

Thank you for all of your help (this is to everyone who responded btw).  If
I am still experiencing difficulty with this later today I will be back...
:)



From scherrey at proteus-tech.com  Tue Jan 25 12:10:10 2005
From: scherrey at proteus-tech.com (Benjamin Scherrey)
Date: Tue Jan 25 12:10:10 2005
Subject: [ale] How to proxy a web app via Apache & SSH?
In-Reply-To: <20050125151418.GK7913@worldnet.att.net>
References: <41F2D0E9.2090103@proteus-tech.com>
	<20050125151418.GK7913@worldnet.att.net>
Message-ID: <41F67C63.90004@proteus-tech.com>

Outstanding!

    This is exactly what I'm looking for, Jason. Thanx much. I knew how 
to establish the ssh port forwarding but the 'reverse proxy' concept is 
what I was trying to discover as my missing link.

       -- Ben Scherrey

Jason Day wrote:

>Ben,
>
>You might be able to do this using Apache's mod_proxy to setup a reverse
>proxy on your web server.  I've never tried this, but if you setup an
>ssh tunnel like:
>
>  ssh -L 8000:your.ip.com:80 your.ip.com
>
>Then setup mod_proxy to forward requests to localhost:8000.  You also
>might be able to use mod_rewrite, that might be easier to setup.
>
>Here's an article on reverse proxies:
>http://www.apacheweek.com/features/reverseproxies
>
>Also, man ssh_config and checkout the ServerAliveInterval and
>ServerAliveCountMax options, to keep your ssh tunnel from timing out.
>
>HTH,
>Jason
>  
>


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 25 12:12:16 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Tue Jan 25 12:12:16 2005
Subject: [ale] Sendmail latency
In-Reply-To: <063301c502fc$3e21bde0$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
References: <20050125041900.46365.qmail@web60708.mail.yahoo.com>
	<053d01c50297$4c75c130$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<054601c5029b$08e2e0c0$59b4fea9@win2kpro1><1106631883.12632.9.camel@blue>
	<41F63B96.5030309@3times25.net><05c401c502e7$c3243c80$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<1106663161.14585.2.camel@blue><05e201c502ed$93b3dc70$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<1106667327.14585.50.camel@blue>
	<063301c502fc$3e21bde0$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
Message-ID: <1106672695.14585.88.camel@blue>

On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 11:37 -0500, Ryan Fish wrote:
>
> 
> Where are 'max_daemon_children' and 'connection_rate_throttle' set?  I can't
> find them in sendmail.cf or sendmail.mc...

WARNING: starting to adjust these can potentially produce interesting
changes (some good, some bad).  I would recommend you test this on a
testbed before implementing it in a production system.

These 3 changes in sendmail.mc (and then a m4 compile of sendmail.mc) 

  define(`confMAX_DAEMON_CHILDREN', 10)dnl
  define(`confCONNECTION_RATE_THROTTLE', 10)
  define(`confSINGLE_THREAD_DELIVERY',false)

will add these 3 lines to sendmail.cf

  O MaxDaemonChildren=10
  O ConnectionRateThrottle=10
  O SingleThreadDelivery=false

I'm not sure of what Sendmail defaults for those values, but basically
those statements allow up to 10 simultaneous child processes (inbound
and outbound).

-Jim P.




From FishR at bellsouth.net  Tue Jan 25 12:38:58 2005
From: FishR at bellsouth.net (Ryan Fish)
Date: Tue Jan 25 12:38:58 2005
Subject: [ale] Sendmail latency
References: <20050125041900.46365.qmail@web60708.mail.yahoo.com><053d01c50297$4c75c130$59b4fea9@win2kpro1><054601c5029b$08e2e0c0$59b4fea9@win2kpro1><1106631883.12632.9.camel@blue><41F63B96.5030309@3times25.net><05c401c502e7$c3243c80$59b4fea9@win2kpro1><1106663161.14585.2.camel@blue><05e201c502ed$93b3dc70$59b4fea9@win2kpro1><1106667327.14585.50.camel@blue><063301c502fc$3e21bde0$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<1106672695.14585.88.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <065a01c50304$a45e4080$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>

> On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 11:37 -0500, Ryan Fish wrote:
> >
> >
> > Where are 'max_daemon_children' and 'connection_rate_throttle' set?  I
can't
> > find them in sendmail.cf or sendmail.mc...
>
> WARNING: starting to adjust these can potentially produce interesting
> changes (some good, some bad).  I would recommend you test this on a
> testbed before implementing it in a production system.
>
> These 3 changes in sendmail.mc (and then a m4 compile of sendmail.mc)
>
>   define(`confMAX_DAEMON_CHILDREN', 10)dnl
>   define(`confCONNECTION_RATE_THROTTLE', 10)
>   define(`confSINGLE_THREAD_DELIVERY',false)
>
> will add these 3 lines to sendmail.cf
>
>   O MaxDaemonChildren=10
>   O ConnectionRateThrottle=10
>   O SingleThreadDelivery=false
>
> I'm not sure of what Sendmail defaults for those values, but basically
> those statements allow up to 10 simultaneous child processes (inbound
> and outbound).


FYI... Here is what they are set to now:

#O MaxDaemonChildren=0
#O ConnectionRateThrottle=0
#O SingleThreadDelivery=False



From jimpop at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 25 12:48:11 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Tue Jan 25 12:48:11 2005
Subject: [ale] Sendmail latency
In-Reply-To: <063b01c50300$3a258d30$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
References: <20050125041900.46365.qmail@web60708.mail.yahoo.com>
	<053d01c50297$4c75c130$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<054601c5029b$08e2e0c0$59b4fea9@win2kpro1><1106631883.12632.9.camel@blue>
	<41F63B96.5030309@3times25.net><05c401c502e7$c3243c80$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<1106663161.14585.2.camel@blue><05e201c502ed$93b3dc70$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<1106667327.14585.50.camel@blue><061e01c502f8$1c3b4b00$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
	<1106670862.14585.63.camel@blue>
	<063b01c50300$3a258d30$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>
Message-ID: <1106674956.20070.6.camel@blue>

On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 12:06 -0500, Ryan Fish wrote:
> >
> > Here is an example of a forwarders statement:
> >
> >   forwarders { 192.168.10.10; 192.168.100.10; };
> 
> - Where would I add this to named.conf?

Inside of the options section.

Similar to this:

options {
        directory "/var/named";
        //query-source address * port 53;
        forwarders { 192.168.10.10; 192.168.100.10; };
        version "Go Away!";

        .....
};

> - If I place the ISP's NS before the local NS (192.168.3.X) I receive
> transient parse errors when attempting to send msgs from the mail server.
> It is also VERY slow when I do that (I tried that on 14JAN05).

This should be of big concern.  To me this says that there is response
time issues, or total lack of a response, from your upstream name
servers.

-Jim P.




From jimpop at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 25 12:52:49 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Tue Jan 25 12:52:49 2005
Subject: [ale] AOL's SPAM solution for lame ISPs
Message-ID: <1106675233.20070.10.camel@blue>

The full article is very interesting, here is a snippet:

-------------------------------
But no one wanted to listen to one ISP. So we had to apply the set of
solutions for every other ISP around the planet for them!
        
        1) The port 25 blocking we do for them (via pattern matches on
        their dynamic space or getting their actual dynamic IP space
        from them if their regex set-up is not thought out well)
        
        2) Our Second Received Line rate limits which put reasonable
        controls on the amount of mail an end user can send through
        their ISPs mail server.
-------------------------------

How to Stop Spam:
http://www.circleid.com/article/917_0_1_0_C/


From ale at FultonGreen.com  Tue Jan 25 13:13:44 2005
From: ale at FultonGreen.com (Fulton Green)
Date: Tue Jan 25 13:13:44 2005
Subject: [ale] AOL's SPAM solution for lame ISPs
In-Reply-To: <1106675233.20070.10.camel@blue>;
	from jimpop@yahoo.com on Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 12:47:13PM -0500
References: <1106675233.20070.10.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <20050125130914.A18270@greenie.frogspace.net>

I've actually been using these concepts for nearly a year now, ever
since my IPP's mail server starting doing reverse-DNS queries so I could
pattern-match.  That technique has been very effective; most of my new
"hits" are coming from previously undiscovered Polish and Japanese ISPs.

On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 12:47:13PM -0500, Jim Popovitch wrote:
>         1) The port 25 blocking we do for them (via pattern matches on
>         their dynamic space or getting their actual dynamic IP space
>         from them if their regex set-up is not thought out well)


From pete.hardie at gmail.com  Tue Jan 25 14:24:01 2005
From: pete.hardie at gmail.com (Pete Hardie)
Date: Tue Jan 25 14:24:01 2005
Subject: [ale] Subversion usage
Message-ID: <31b322400501251119743bd3ad@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

As a break from the usually scheduled BellSouth hatefest, I have a
question about Subversion - I'm using it at home to version my home
projects, and possibly my home dir, as well as the config setups for
various installed tools.  Is it better/typical to create a repository
per project, or just one big repository with each project a subdir?

TIA,

-- 
Better Living Through Bitmaps


From runman at speedfactory.net  Tue Jan 25 14:42:50 2005
From: runman at speedfactory.net (Greg)
Date: Tue Jan 25 14:42:50 2005
Subject: [ale] Critters in the Attic
In-Reply-To: <41F66DAC.2050602@cordata.com>
Message-ID: <001a01c50315$b367fba0$0a00a8c0@atlas>

For mice use steel wool.  Put it between the boards of your house and in
*any* and *all* holes.  It apparently sticks the little critters in the nose
or something but it works.  For your traps I would suggest peanut butter as
bait.  I am assuming you are using the big steel teeth mouse traps that
kill.  You really don't want to capture and release rodents and such - they
just come back.

Greg
  -----Original Message-----
  From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org]On Behalf Of Matthew
Brown
  Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 11:03 AM
  To: Pete Hardie; Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
  Subject: Re: [ale] Critters in the Attic


  Moth balls.  Put a few in the attic here and there.  Be careful though.  I
nearly gassed my family by putting a whole box of them up there.  ALSO, put
them where you can easily remove them when they've done their job.

  DISCLAIMER:  I have no idea how toxic this might be, I only know it worked
well for me.

Matthew Brown, CorData
Linux Solutions for Small Business
o: 770-795-0089
e: matthew.brown at cordata.com

  Pete Hardie wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 08:59:02 -0500, David Corbin <dcorbin at enttek.com> wrote:
  We have critters in the attic.  Unfortunately, they don't seem to want to
be
caught by our rat traps (cages sized for Noregian Roof Rats, which we've had
before).  So, I assume it's something larger.  What I really need is to know
where they're entering the attic, so I can seal it.

But wait you say, this is a Linux list.  I have an old P133 system that I
just
shut down.  I had this thought - what inexpensive peripherals could I add
to this box to help me solve it?

I was thinking I could put the box in the attic (winter fortunately), and
put
a cheap camera on it.  I'd need some type of flash/strobe, or it would have
to be an IR-capabel camera (they only seem active at night, so even
low-light
won't help).  If it's a still-camera, I'd need a motion sensor, though that
might be good either way.


Two suggestions

1) light - try leaving your attic light on.  If you don't have one, a
worklight could be run from an outlet.  This will either drive them
out, or let you see them better

2) ingress - probably via eaves, or vents.  Hardware cloth over any
hole larger than your pinky-nail.  I found a gutter screen mesh that's
pretty cheap, easy to trim, and comes in convenient lengths for attic
work at Home Depot.


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From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Tue Jan 25 14:49:01 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Tue Jan 25 14:49:01 2005
Subject: [ale] Pyhon syntax
Message-ID: <1106682269.5875.54.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>

I'm playing around with Python and having some issues with the syntax.
Guido van Rossum must hate the syntax of C, Java, Perl, etc.  I'm so
used to braces that I'm getting a headache trying to understand the
syntax.

I'm playing with MySQL DB and am executing some queries.

>>> import MySQLdb
>>> db=MySQLdb.connect(host="127.0.0.1", user="cms", passwd="cms",
db="AC_OUTPOST");
>>> c = db.cursor();
>>> c.execute("SELECT * FROM ens;");
5L
>>>               

What I am wanting to do is a while loop to fetch each row.  I assume I
use the fetchone method of the DB API.
>>> while row=c.fetchone():
  File "<stdin>", line 1
    while row=c.fetchone():
             ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>> 

Everytime I see a while loop in examples I see a "while 1:"  Then to 
get out of the loop I see a break.  What is the proper syntax?

Thanks,
Chris



From dcorbin at enttek.com  Tue Jan 25 14:56:13 2005
From: dcorbin at enttek.com (David Corbin)
Date: Tue Jan 25 14:56:13 2005
Subject: [ale] Critters in the Attic
In-Reply-To: <001a01c50315$b367fba0$0a00a8c0@atlas>
References: <001a01c50315$b367fba0$0a00a8c0@atlas>
Message-ID: <200501251449.32074.dcorbin@enttek.com>

On Tuesday 25 January 2005 02:40 pm, Greg wrote:
> For mice use steel wool.  Put it between the boards of your house and in
> *any* and *all* holes.  It apparently sticks the little critters in the
> nose or something but it works.  For your traps I would suggest peanut
> butter as bait.  I am assuming you are using the big steel teeth mouse
> traps that kill.  You really don't want to capture and release rodents and
> such - they just come back.

Nope.  Cage traps.  Bated with Apple, peanut butter, and seeds.  Worked 
wonders.  We caught a rat 5+ years ago, we just hauled off some 5+ miles 
before releasing.


From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Tue Jan 25 15:04:06 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Tue Jan 25 15:04:06 2005
Subject: [ale] Pyhon syntax
In-Reply-To: <1106682269.5875.54.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
References: <1106682269.5875.54.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
Message-ID: <1106683151.10196.56.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>

The Python fact seems to explain these differences.

>>> while True:
...   row = c.fetchone();
...   if not row: break;
...   print row


This one works but goes against the idea that if you enter a loop there
must only be one way out of that loop. 


On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 14:44, Christopher Fowler wrote:
> I'm playing around with Python and having some issues with the syntax.
> Guido van Rossum must hate the syntax of C, Java, Perl, etc.  I'm so
> used to braces that I'm getting a headache trying to understand the
> syntax.
> 
> I'm playing with MySQL DB and am executing some queries.
> 
> >>> import MySQLdb
> >>> db=MySQLdb.connect(host="127.0.0.1", user="cms", passwd="cms",
> db="AC_OUTPOST");
> >>> c = db.cursor();
> >>> c.execute("SELECT * FROM ens;");
> 5L
> >>>               
> 
> What I am wanting to do is a while loop to fetch each row.  I assume I
> use the fetchone method of the DB API.
> >>> while row=c.fetchone():
>   File "<stdin>", line 1
>     while row=c.fetchone():
>              ^
> SyntaxError: invalid syntax
> >>> 
> 
> Everytime I see a while loop in examples I see a "while 1:"  Then to 
> get out of the loop I see a break.  What is the proper syntax?
> 
> Thanks,
> Chris
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From runman at speedfactory.net  Tue Jan 25 15:19:33 2005
From: runman at speedfactory.net (Greg)
Date: Tue Jan 25 15:19:33 2005
Subject: [ale] Subversion usage
In-Reply-To: <31b322400501251119743bd3ad@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002401c5031a$c78a9bb0$0a00a8c0@atlas>

The first is the best and recommended way of doing things or the "generally
accepted practice" - but you can do the second.

Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org]On Behalf Of Pete
Hardie
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 2:19 PM
To: ale at ale.org
Subject: [ale] Subversion usage


Hello all,

As a break from the usually scheduled BellSouth hatefest, I have a
question about Subversion - I'm using it at home to version my home
projects, and possibly my home dir, as well as the config setups for
various installed tools.  Is it better/typical to create a repository
per project, or just one big repository with each project a subdir?

TIA,

--
Better Living Through Bitmaps
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From fletch at phydeaux.org  Tue Jan 25 15:21:23 2005
From: fletch at phydeaux.org (fletch at phydeaux.org)
Date: Tue Jan 25 15:21:23 2005
Subject: [ale] Subversion usage 
Message-ID: <50383.24.98.129.46.1106684113.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org>


>>>>> "Pete" == Pete Hardie <pete.hardie at gmail.com> writes:


[...]
    Pete> tools.  Is it better/typical to create a repository per
    Pete> project, or just one big repository with each project a
    Pete> subdir?

Depends. :)


As far as I've noticed the advantages to one big repo:

  * everything's in one place (which of course could also be a
    disadvantage in the eggs-in-one-basket sense)

  * can copy with history between different sub-projects

  * only one place to maintain hook scripts and what not


Disadvantages:

  * revision numbers climb globally for each change to the repo as a
    whole, so you may commit r123 of .../foo/trunk/zorch.c, not change
    anything for months in the foo project, and then the next commit
    to it is r394 (not that there's anything wrong with that, it's
    just conceptually confuzzling if you're of a CVS background)

  * if you do need customized hook behavior for different projects
    your hook scripts need to be smarter to discern to which project a
    given transaction belongs


And pretty much the inverse of all those are true for multiple
repositories.  I'm in the process of moving the group I work for over
to SVN from CVS and went the multiple repository route (one for Perl,
one for C++ library foo, one for C++ library bar, . . .) and that's been
working pretty well (so far :).

-- 
Fletch                | "If you find my answers frightening,       __`'/|
fletch at phydeaux.org|  Vincent, you should cease askin'          \ o.O'
                      |  scary questions." -- Jules                =(___)=
                      |                                               U


From runman at speedfactory.net  Tue Jan 25 15:24:30 2005
From: runman at speedfactory.net (Greg)
Date: Tue Jan 25 15:24:30 2005
Subject: [ale] Critters in the Attic
In-Reply-To: <200501251449.32074.dcorbin@enttek.com>
Message-ID: <002501c5031b$6edaa3b0$0a00a8c0@atlas>

Why do you want to release a rodent into the wild ??  Have we learned
nothing from history (The Plague in Europe).  Rodents are vermin - they
bring disease and pestilence to man and other animals.  Though needful to
the environmental food chain they are still vermin and should be destroyed.
And yes I am serious.  Folks have been killed by the diseases in rodent
droppings and from the fleas that they harbour.

Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: David Corbin [mailto:dcorbin at enttek.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 2:50 PM
To: ale at ale.org
Cc: Greg
Subject: Re: [ale] Critters in the Attic


On Tuesday 25 January 2005 02:40 pm, Greg wrote:
> For mice use steel wool.  Put it between the boards of your house and in
> *any* and *all* holes.  It apparently sticks the little critters in the
> nose or something but it works.  For your traps I would suggest peanut
> butter as bait.  I am assuming you are using the big steel teeth mouse
> traps that kill.  You really don't want to capture and release rodents and
> such - they just come back.

Nope.  Cage traps.  Bated with Apple, peanut butter, and seeds.  Worked
wonders.  We caught a rat 5+ years ago, we just hauled off some 5+ miles
before releasing.


From wwhitmar at operamail.com  Tue Jan 25 15:27:28 2005
From: wwhitmar at operamail.com (Wendell Whitmarsh )
Date: Tue Jan 25 15:27:28 2005
Subject: [ale] Critters in the Attic
Message-ID: <20050125202147.7AE503982EF@ws5-1.us4.outblaze.com>

Mouse or Rat Decon works great.
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg <runman at speedfactory.net>
To: "Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts" <ale at ale.org>
Subject: RE: [ale] Critters in the Attic
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 14:40:18 -0500

> 
> For mice use steel wool.  Put it between the boards of your house and in
> *any* and *all* holes.  It apparently sticks the little critters in the nose
> or something but it works.  For your traps I would suggest peanut butter as
> bait.  I am assuming you are using the big steel teeth mouse traps that
> kill.  You really don't want to capture and release rodents and such - they
> just come back.
> 
> Greg
>    -----Original Message-----
>    From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org]On Behalf Of Matthew
> Brown
>    Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 11:03 AM
>    To: Pete Hardie; Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
>    Subject: Re: [ale] Critters in the Attic
> 
> 
>    Moth balls.  Put a few in the attic here and there.  Be careful though.  I
> nearly gassed my family by putting a whole box of them up there.  ALSO, put
> them where you can easily remove them when they've done their job.
> 
>    DISCLAIMER:  I have no idea how toxic this might be, I only know it worked
> well for me.
> 
> Matthew Brown, CorData
> Linux Solutions for Small Business
> o: 770-795-0089
> e: matthew.brown at cordata.com
> 
>    Pete Hardie wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 08:59:02 -0500, David Corbin <dcorbin at enttek.com> wrote:
>    We have critters in the attic.  Unfortunately, they don't seem to want to
> be
> caught by our rat traps (cages sized for Noregian Roof Rats, which we've had
> before).  So, I assume it's something larger.  What I really need is to know
> where they're entering the attic, so I can seal it.
> 
> But wait you say, this is a Linux list.  I have an old P133 system that I
> just
> shut down.  I had this thought - what inexpensive peripherals could I add
> to this box to help me solve it?
> 
> I was thinking I could put the box in the attic (winter fortunately), and
> put
> a cheap camera on it.  I'd need some type of flash/strobe, or it would have
> to be an IR-capabel camera (they only seem active at night, so even
> low-light
> won't help).  If it's a still-camera, I'd need a motion sensor, though that
> might be good either way.
> 
> 
> Two suggestions
> 
> 1) light - try leaving your attic light on.  If you don't have one, a
> worklight could be run from an outlet.  This will either drive them
> out, or let you see them better
> 
> 2) ingress - probably via eaves, or vents.  Hardware cloth over any
> hole larger than your pinky-nail.  I found a gutter screen mesh that's
> pretty cheap, easy to trim, and comes in convenient lengths for attic
> work at Home Depot.

>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

-- 
_____________________________________________________________
Web-based SMS services available at http://www.operamail.com.
>From your mailbox to local or overseas cell phones.

Powered by Outblaze


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 25 15:29:15 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Tue Jan 25 15:29:15 2005
Subject: [ale] Critters in the Attic
In-Reply-To: <200501251449.32074.dcorbin@enttek.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.67.1106684953.18563.ale@ale.org>

>>>fast forward<<<<

Setting:  5 miles away
Characters: People closest to that neighborhood


Person #1:  Where in the heck did this rat come from?
Person #2:  I have no idea.  We've *never* had rats around here before.


:-D


--j



-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of David
Corbin
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 2:50 PM
To: ale at ale.org
Subject: Re: [ale] Critters in the Attic

On Tuesday 25 January 2005 02:40 pm, Greg wrote:
> For mice use steel wool.  Put it between the boards of your house and 
> in
> *any* and *all* holes.  It apparently sticks the little critters in 
> the nose or something but it works.  For your traps I would suggest 
> peanut butter as bait.  I am assuming you are using the big steel 
> teeth mouse traps that kill.  You really don't want to capture and 
> release rodents and such - they just come back.

Nope.  Cage traps.  Bated with Apple, peanut butter, and seeds.  Worked
wonders.  We caught a rat 5+ years ago, we just hauled off some 5+ miles
before releasing.
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.4 - Release Date: 1/25/2005
 

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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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From barry at alltc.com  Tue Jan 25 15:35:29 2005
From: barry at alltc.com (Barry Hawkins)
Date: Tue Jan 25 15:35:29 2005
Subject: [ale] Subversion usage
In-Reply-To: <31b322400501251119743bd3ad@mail.gmail.com>
References: <31b322400501251119743bd3ad@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41F6AC50.60508@alltc.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Pete Hardie wrote:
| Hello all,
|
| As a break from the usually scheduled BellSouth hatefest, I have a
| question about Subversion - I'm using it at home to version my home
| projects, and possibly my home dir, as well as the config setups for
| various installed tools.  Is it better/typical to create a repository
| per project, or just one big repository with each project a subdir?
|
| TIA,
|
It agree with the other post that it depends on several factors.
Fortunately, one of the leading books on Subversion[0] is also open
source, so you can read and decide for yourself:

[0] - http://svnbook.red-bean.com/

- --
Barry Hawkins
All Things Computed
site: www.alltc.com
weblog: www.yepthatsme.com

Registered Linux User #368650
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFB9qxQ7bZ6kUftWZwRAjclAJ9q49gu2Ph36JT9n1Tzv7tfMQw3IQCcCQs3
d4xS1jblSdn8aaVF+8U4CfY=
=YfkC
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From kafka at antichri.st  Tue Jan 25 15:37:23 2005
From: kafka at antichri.st (George Carless)
Date: Tue Jan 25 15:37:23 2005
Subject: [ale] Critters in the Attic
In-Reply-To: <002501c5031b$6edaa3b0$0a00a8c0@atlas>
References: <200501251449.32074.dcorbin@enttek.com>
	<002501c5031b$6edaa3b0$0a00a8c0@atlas>
Message-ID: <20050125203010.GA11723@antichri.st>

On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 03:21:20PM -0500, Greg wrote:
> Why do you want to release a rodent into the wild ??  Have we learned
> nothing from history (The Plague in Europe).  Rodents are vermin - they
> bring disease and pestilence to man and other animals.  Though needful to
> the environmental food chain they are still vermin and should be destroyed.
> And yes I am serious.  Folks have been killed by the diseases in rodent
> droppings and from the fleas that they harbour.

And humans are even worse.  Let's introduce rat poison into the water 
supply, I say.

--George


From habieb at myrealbox.com  Tue Jan 25 15:38:33 2005
From: habieb at myrealbox.com (H. Bieber)
Date: Tue Jan 25 15:38:33 2005
Subject: [ale] Critters in the Attic
Message-ID: <1106685236.2dcff63chabieb@myrealbox.com>

Sounds to me he is going to be the leader in rodent porn websites. 

**Come see our mice in the attic" "We have cams with night vision so you can watch in the dark" "No kiddie mice allowed" "Only 2 pieces of cheese per month, billed discreetly as "Cheese Club" ;)"

Harold




-----Original Message-----
From: "Wendell Whitmarsh " <wwhitmar at operamail.com>
To: "Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts" <ale at ale.org>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 15:21:47 -0500
Subject: RE: [ale] Critters in the Attic

Mouse or Rat Decon works great.
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg <runman at speedfactory.net>
To: "Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts" <ale at ale.org>
Subject: RE: [ale] Critters in the Attic
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 14:40:18 -0500

> 
> For mice use steel wool.  Put it between the boards of your house and in
> *any* and *all* holes.  It apparently sticks the little critters in the nose
> or something but it works.  For your traps I would suggest peanut butter as
> bait.  I am assuming you are using the big steel teeth mouse traps that
> kill.  You really don't want to capture and release rodents and such - they
> just come back.
> 
> Greg
>    -----Original Message-----
>    From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org]On Behalf Of Matthew
> Brown
>    Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 11:03 AM
>    To: Pete Hardie; Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
>    Subject: Re: [ale] Critters in the Attic
> 
> 
>    Moth balls.  Put a few in the attic here and there.  Be careful though..  I
> nearly gassed my family by putting a whole box of them up there.  ALSO, put
> them where you can easily remove them when they've done their job.
> 
>    DISCLAIMER:  I have no idea how toxic this might be, I only know it worked
> well for me.
> 
> Matthew Brown, CorData
> Linux Solutions for Small Business
> o: 770-795-0089
> e: matthew.brown at cordata.com
> 
>    Pete Hardie wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 08:59:02 -0500, David Corbin <dcorbin at enttek.com> wrote:
>    We have critters in the attic.  Unfortunately, they don't seem to want to
> be
> caught by our rat traps (cages sized for Noregian Roof Rats, which we've had
> before).  So, I assume it's something larger.  What I really need is to know
> where they're entering the attic, so I can seal it.
> 
> But wait you say, this is a Linux list.  I have an old P133 system that I
> just
> shut down.  I had this thought - what inexpensive peripherals could I add
> to this box to help me solve it?
> 
> I was thinking I could put the box in the attic (winter fortunately), and
> put
> a cheap camera on it.  I'd need some type of flash/strobe, or it would have
> to be an IR-capabel camera (they only seem active at night, so even
> low-light
> won't help).  If it's a still-camera, I'd need a motion sensor, though that
> might be good either way.
> 
> 
> Two suggestions
> 
> 1) light - try leaving your attic light on.  If you don't have one, a
> worklight could be run from an outlet.  This will either drive them
> out, or let you see them better
> 
> 2) ingress - probably via eaves, or vents.  Hardware cloth over any
> hole larger than your pinky-nail.  I found a gutter screen mesh that's
> pretty cheap, easy to trim, and comes in convenient lengths for attic
> work at Home Depot.

>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

-- 
_____________________________________________________________
Web-based SMS services available at http://www.operamail.com.
>From your mailbox to local or overseas cell phones.

Powered by Outblaze
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


Registered Linux User #277269
http://counter.li.org


From habieb at myrealbox.com  Tue Jan 25 15:40:50 2005
From: habieb at myrealbox.com (H. Bieber)
Date: Tue Jan 25 15:40:50 2005
Subject: [ale] Critters in the Attic
Message-ID: <1106685384.2dcff63chabieb@myrealbox.com>

Act 1, Scene 2...

Person 1- What is that rat wearing?
Person 2- Looks like a little T-shirt with a ??Penguin??
Person 1- Those damn Linux Geeks from 5 miles away lost their pet.




-----Original Message-----
From: "Jerald Sheets" <jsheets at yahoo.com>
To: "'Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts'" <ale at ale.org>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 10:24:37 -0500
Subject: RE: [ale] Critters in the Attic

>>>fast forward<<<<

Setting:  5 miles away
Characters: People closest to that neighborhood


Person #1:  Where in the heck did this rat come from?
Person #2:  I have no idea.  We've *never* had rats around here before.


:-D


--j



-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of David
Corbin
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 2:50 PM
To: ale at ale.org
Subject: Re: [ale] Critters in the Attic

On Tuesday 25 January 2005 02:40 pm, Greg wrote:
> For mice use steel wool.  Put it between the boards of your house and 
> in
> *any* and *all* holes.  It apparently sticks the little critters in 
> the nose or something but it works.  For your traps I would suggest 
> peanut butter as bait.  I am assuming you are using the big steel 
> teeth mouse traps that kill.  You really don't want to capture and 
> release rodents and such - they just come back.

Nope.  Cage traps.  Bated with Apple, peanut butter, and seeds.  Worked
wonders.  We caught a rat 5+ years ago, we just hauled off some 5+ miles
before releasing.
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.4 - Release Date: 1/25/2005
 

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.4 - Release Date: 1/25/2005
 

_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


Registered Linux User #277269
http://counter.li.org


From scherrey at proteus-tech.com  Tue Jan 25 15:49:04 2005
From: scherrey at proteus-tech.com (Benjamin Scherrey)
Date: Tue Jan 25 15:49:04 2005
Subject: [ale] Pyhon syntax
In-Reply-To: <1106683151.10196.56.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
References: <1106682269.5875.54.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
	<1106683151.10196.56.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
Message-ID: <41F6AFB4.30905@proteus-tech.com>

for row in c.fetchone():
    print row

This will iterate through every call until c.fetchone() is empty and 
returns None or throws an exception. Python structures loops as 
iterations of lists, not too dissimilar from lisp except with a readable 
syntax. The result is that you do only have one exit from your loop in 
the vast majority of cases, you don't have seperate testing code from 
iteration code, and the semantics more closely match your logical 
intention. I'm a big C++ programmer but python never fails to astonish 
me and being both simple to learn while powerfully expressive at the 
same time. I think its fairly unique in that regard. Python is very 
object oriented as is C++ but also supports the functional paradigm 
which, in C++, requires more clumsy and sometimes brain warping syntax 
of predicate templates and function objects.

    Ben Scherrey


Christopher Fowler wrote:

>The Python fact seems to explain these differences.
>
>  
>
>>>>while True:
>>>>        
>>>>
>...   row = c.fetchone();
>...   if not row: break;
>...   print row
>
>
>This one works but goes against the idea that if you enter a loop there
>must only be one way out of that loop. 
>
>  
>
<snip rest>


From hbbs at comcast.net  Tue Jan 25 15:49:59 2005
From: hbbs at comcast.net (Jeff Hubbs)
Date: Tue Jan 25 15:49:59 2005
Subject: [ale] Critters in the Attic
In-Reply-To: <002501c5031b$6edaa3b0$0a00a8c0@atlas>
References: <002501c5031b$6edaa3b0$0a00a8c0@atlas>
Message-ID: <1106685925.4540.1159.camel@juanita>

I don't think anyone around here has contracted plague!

Jeff

On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 15:21, Greg wrote:
> Why do you want to release a rodent into the wild ??  Have we learned
> nothing from history (The Plague in Europe).  Rodents are vermin - they
> bring disease and pestilence to man and other animals.  Though needful to
> the environmental food chain they are still vermin and should be destroyed.
> And yes I am serious.  Folks have been killed by the diseases in rodent
> droppings and from the fleas that they harbour.
> 
> Greg
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Corbin [mailto:dcorbin at enttek.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 2:50 PM
> To: ale at ale.org
> Cc: Greg
> Subject: Re: [ale] Critters in the Attic
> 
> 
> On Tuesday 25 January 2005 02:40 pm, Greg wrote:
> > For mice use steel wool.  Put it between the boards of your house and in
> > *any* and *all* holes.  It apparently sticks the little critters in the
> > nose or something but it works.  For your traps I would suggest peanut
> > butter as bait.  I am assuming you are using the big steel teeth mouse
> > traps that kill.  You really don't want to capture and release rodents and
> > such - they just come back.
> 
> Nope.  Cage traps.  Bated with Apple, peanut butter, and seeds.  Worked
> wonders.  We caught a rat 5+ years ago, we just hauled off some 5+ miles
> before releasing.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From jpheale at LearnLink.Emory.Edu  Tue Jan 25 16:08:04 2005
From: jpheale at LearnLink.Emory.Edu (John P. Healey)
Date: Tue Jan 25 16:08:04 2005
Subject: [ale] Pyhon syntax
In-Reply-To: <1106683151.10196.56.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
References: <1106682269.5875.54.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
	<1106683151.10196.56.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
Message-ID: <fc.00249f0f2373e0f43b9aca000b43add2.2373f356@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>

how much data are you dealing with?  if you fetch all of the rows at once, you
can iterate through them with automatic tuple unpacking:

query = "SELECT id, name, value FROM my_table"
cursor.execute(query)
rows = cursor.fetchall()
for id, name, value in rows:
	print "%s(%s): %s" % (id, name, cursor)

it's not the best solution if you're dealing with tons of data, but it is
extremely readable.

5265762e204a6f686e6e79204865616c6579


From greg.freemyer at gmail.com  Tue Jan 25 16:09:27 2005
From: greg.freemyer at gmail.com (Greg Freemyer)
Date: Tue Jan 25 16:09:27 2005
Subject: [ale] Critters in the Attic
In-Reply-To: <20050125202147.7AE503982EF@ws5-1.us4.outblaze.com>
References: <20050125202147.7AE503982EF@ws5-1.us4.outblaze.com>
Message-ID: <87f94c3705012513044cfa6b26@mail.gmail.com>

Oh yeah, poison, great idea.

I love the smell of decaying rat in my walls.

:-)   Sorry, couldn't help it.


On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 15:21:47 -0500, Wendell Whitmarsh
<wwhitmar at operamail.com> wrote:
> Mouse or Rat Decon works great.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Greg <runman at speedfactory.net>
> To: "Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts" <ale at ale.org>
> Subject: RE: [ale] Critters in the Attic
> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 14:40:18 -0500
> 
> >
> > For mice use steel wool.  Put it between the boards of your house and in
> > *any* and *all* holes.  It apparently sticks the little critters in the nose
> > or something but it works.  For your traps I would suggest peanut butter as
> > bait.  I am assuming you are using the big steel teeth mouse traps that
> > kill.  You really don't want to capture and release rodents and such - they
> > just come back.
> > 
> > Greg
> >    -----Original Message-----
> >    From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org]On Behalf Of Matthew
> > Brown
> >    Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 11:03 AM
> >    To: Pete Hardie; Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> 
> >    Subject: Re: [ale] Critters in the Attic
> >
> >
> >    Moth balls.  Put a few in the attic here and there.  Be careful though.  I
> > nearly gassed my family by putting a whole box of them up there.  ALSO, put
> > them where you can easily remove them when they've done their job.
> >
> >    DISCLAIMER:  I have no idea how toxic this might be, I only know it worked
> > well for me.
> >
> > Matthew Brown, CorData
> > Linux Solutions for Small Business
> > o: 770-795-0089
> > e: matthew.brown at cordata.com
> >
> >    Pete Hardie wrote:
> > On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 08:59:02 -0500, David Corbin <dcorbin at enttek.com> wrote:
> >    We have critters in the attic.  Unfortunately, they don't seem to want to
> > be
> > caught by our rat traps (cages sized for Noregian Roof Rats, which we've had
> > before).  So, I assume it's something larger.  What I really need is to know
> > where they're entering the attic, so I can seal it.
> >
> > But wait you say, this is a Linux list.  I have an old P133 system that I
> > just
> > shut down.  I had this thought - what inexpensive peripherals could I add
> > to this box to help me solve it?
> >
> > I was thinking I could put the box in the attic (winter fortunately), and
> > put
> > a cheap camera on it.  I'd need some type of flash/strobe, or it would have
> > to be an IR-capabel camera (they only seem active at night, so even
> > low-light
> > won't help).  If it's a still-camera, I'd need a motion sensor, though that
> > might be good either way.
> >
> >
> > Two suggestions
> >
> > 1) light - try leaving your attic light on.  If you don't have one, a
> > worklight could be run from an outlet.  This will either drive them
> > out, or let you see them better
> >
> > 2) ingress - probably via eaves, or vents.  Hardware cloth over any
> > hole larger than your pinky-nail.  I found a gutter screen mesh that's
> > pretty cheap, easy to trim, and comes in convenient lengths for attic
> > work at Home Depot.
> 
> >
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> --
> _____________________________________________________________
> Web-based SMS services available at http://www.operamail.com.
> From your mailbox to local or overseas cell phones.
> 
> Powered by Outblaze
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>


From jpheale at LearnLink.Emory.Edu  Tue Jan 25 16:13:05 2005
From: jpheale at LearnLink.Emory.Edu (John P. Healey)
Date: Tue Jan 25 16:13:05 2005
Subject: [ale] Pyhon syntax
In-Reply-To: <1106683151.10196.56.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
References: <1106682269.5875.54.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
	<1106683151.10196.56.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
Message-ID: <fc.00249f0f2373f6ad3b9aca000b43add2.2373fced@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>

actually, now that i'm looking at it, the cursor object itself is iterable, so
you could even just say:

for row in cursor:
	print row[0], row[1]

or even:

for column1, column2 in cursor:
	print column1, column2



5265762e204a6f686e6e79204865616c6579


From scherrey at proteus-tech.com  Tue Jan 25 16:16:01 2005
From: scherrey at proteus-tech.com (Benjamin Scherrey)
Date: Tue Jan 25 16:16:01 2005
Subject: [ale] Pyhon syntax
In-Reply-To: <1106686306.5877.62.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
References: <1106682269.5875.54.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>	
	<1106683151.10196.56.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>	
	<41F6AFB4.30905@proteus-tech.com>
	<1106686306.5877.62.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
Message-ID: <41F6B601.5000407@proteus-tech.com>

Python has incredibly wide module support - very competitive to perl. 
That is, indeed, one of my reasons for putting off doing anything 
significant with ruby - despite the really cool 'ruby with rails' 
project that has come out. I can connect to any database, perform any 
web/internet functionality, talk to hardware and utilize 
platform-specific features (its windows support is just as strong as its 
linux support) with python easily. I think you'll be pleasently 
surprised in this regard.

    good luck,

       Ben Scherrey

Christopher Fowler wrote:

>Right now I'm inspecting python as a possible replacement for our Perl
>code.  I want to go to a full blown OOP language.  Instead of trying to
>force OOP in perl.  One of my concerns is with modules.  Perl has a huge
>following and has many modules.  I'm not in the mood to have to write
>from scratch any module we no use from CPAN into Python.
>  
>
>
>
>  
>


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Tue Jan 25 16:17:20 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Tue Jan 25 16:17:20 2005
Subject: [ale] Critters in the Attic
In-Reply-To: <20050125202147.7AE503982EF@ws5-1.us4.outblaze.com>
References: <20050125202147.7AE503982EF@ws5-1.us4.outblaze.com>
Message-ID: <41F6B61C.4060604@3times25.net>

Wendell Whitmarsh wrote:
> Mouse or Rat Decon works great.

Until the rodent eats it and crawls off somewhere where you can't get to 
it and dies.  Like, inside a wall...

Of course the foul stench will tell you it's dead..

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Tue Jan 25 16:34:16 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Tue Jan 25 16:34:16 2005
Subject: [ale] Critters in the Attic
In-Reply-To: <200501251449.32074.dcorbin@enttek.com>
References: <001a01c50315$b367fba0$0a00a8c0@atlas>
	<200501251449.32074.dcorbin@enttek.com>
Message-ID: <1106688572.16329.163.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>

On Tue, 2005-01-25 at 14:49 -0500, David Corbin wrote:
> On Tuesday 25 January 2005 02:40 pm, Greg wrote:
> > For mice use steel wool.  Put it between the boards of your house and in
> > *any* and *all* holes.  It apparently sticks the little critters in the
> > nose or something but it works.  For your traps I would suggest peanut
> > butter as bait.  I am assuming you are using the big steel teeth mouse
> > traps that kill.  You really don't want to capture and release rodents and
> > such - they just come back.
> 
> Nope.  Cage traps.  Bated with Apple, peanut butter, and seeds.  Worked 
> wonders.  We caught a rat 5+ years ago, we just hauled off some 5+ miles 
> before releasing.

So that's where the little bugger came from...

Seriously, the traps only work once. Then they get smart and avoid them.
You DON'T want to poison the critters as they ALWAYS die where you can't
get them. Then you have to tear out a chunk of wall to get rid of the
smell.


1. Stop feeding the cat(s) for a day or so.
2. Toss the now hungry cat(s) into the attic.
3. When noise subsides, retrieve cat(s) from attic and remove all traces
of insulation with a brush (No. Don't use the vaccum cleaner. It will
make a big mess when the cat freaks out and pees all over your fresh
wounds they inflicted when you turned on the vacuum cleaner).
4. Plug all the holes with a combination of hardware cloth (1/4" mesh is
good), screws w/washers, expanding foam sealent, and steel wool for the
tiny holes. Double check all eaves areas at the top of the gutters.
Double check any opening (power line feed, phone line, cable, water,
gas, etc). Double check any turn or corner in the roof line. Double
check the flashing around the chimney, dormer windows, etc.
5. Go to the pet store and get some mice (the type reptile people feed
their snakes) and kill them and feed them to the cat(s). They love "wild
game" and will be very sleepy afterwards. It will also get them hungry
for more.
6. Repeat 1-5 in about a week.

We get squirrels often. The chew a new hole every time. At some point,
I'm going to give up and have the eaves and soffit covered with
stainless steel plating. The most recent hole enlarged the service
entrance for our power line. 

Unfortunately, squirrels are protected in Dekalb County (WHY?!?! They
are as prevalent as pigeons) else I would go "hunting" with the .22 shot
shells in the attic.

> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> !DSPAM:41f6a38e296095267315863!
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From mike at tyderia.net  Tue Jan 25 16:46:46 2005
From: mike at tyderia.net (Mike Murphy)
Date: Tue Jan 25 16:46:46 2005
Subject: [ale] Critters in the Attic
In-Reply-To: <1106688572.16329.163.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
References: <001a01c50315$b367fba0$0a00a8c0@atlas>	<200501251449.32074.dcorbin@enttek.com>
	<1106688572.16329.163.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <41F6BB55.2070701@tyderia.net>

On 01/25/2005 04:29 PM, James P. Kinney III wrote:

> Unfortunately, squirrels are protected in Dekalb County (WHY?!?! They
> are as prevalent as pigeons) else I would go "hunting" with the .22 shot
> shells in the attic.
> 
>

There is an off-color Vernon Jones joke in there somewhere, but I'll 
leave it as an exercise for the reader.

Mike


-- 

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Mike Murphy
781 Inman Mews Drive Atlanta GA 30307
Landline: 404-653-1070
Mobile: 404-545-6234
Email: mike at tyderia.net
AIM: mmichael453
JDAM: 33:45:14.0584N  84:21:43.038W
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+


From rb211 at tds.net  Tue Jan 25 16:52:23 2005
From: rb211 at tds.net (William Bagwell)
Date: Tue Jan 25 16:52:23 2005
Subject: [ale] Critters in the Attic
In-Reply-To: <87f94c3705012513044cfa6b26@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20050125202147.7AE503982EF@ws5-1.us4.outblaze.com>
	<87f94c3705012513044cfa6b26@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200501251650.43383@llamallamallama>

On Tuesday 25 January 2005 04:04 pm, Greg Freemyer wrote:
> Oh yeah, poison, great idea.
>
> I love the smell of decaying rat in my walls.
>
> :-) ? Sorry, couldn't help it.

Heh, been there done that. Fortunately it was the barn, not the house. Four 
days with a large commercial type fan running before you could even stand to 
enter briefly. 

We now have a resident snake:-O Can be quite alarming to realize a snake is 
staring you in the face....  While on a step ladder straining with a heavy 
box.  Still better than the smell!
-- 
William


From rb211 at tds.net  Tue Jan 25 17:04:49 2005
From: rb211 at tds.net (William Bagwell)
Date: Tue Jan 25 17:04:49 2005
Subject: [ale] Pyhon syntax
In-Reply-To: <41F6AFB4.30905@proteus-tech.com>
References: <1106682269.5875.54.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
	<1106683151.10196.56.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
	<41F6AFB4.30905@proteus-tech.com>
Message-ID: <200501251703.09444@llamallamallama>

On Tuesday 25 January 2005 03:44 pm, Benjamin Scherrey wrote:

> (Python) snips

> and the semantics more closely match your logical intention. 

It is the only one that does *not* give me a headache. Reminds me of sudo 
code.

> I'm a big C++ programmer but python never fails to astonish 
> me and being both simple to learn while powerfully expressive at the
> same time. I think its fairly unique in that regard. Python is very
> object oriented as is C++ but also supports the functional paradigm
> which, in C++, requires more clumsy and sometimes brain warping syntax
> of predicate templates and function objects.

For a non-programmer who wants to learn at least one language well enough to 
actually use. Would Python make a good choice?

And no the snake in my barn is not a python:)
-- 
William


From mhirsch at nubridges.com  Tue Jan 25 17:12:56 2005
From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael Hirsch)
Date: Tue Jan 25 17:12:56 2005
Subject: [ale] Pyhon syntax
Message-ID: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CAE0@germanium.numethods.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
> William Bagwell
> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 5:03 PM
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [ale] Pyhon syntax
> 
> On Tuesday 25 January 2005 03:44 pm, Benjamin Scherrey wrote:
> 
> > (Python) snips
> 
> > and the semantics more closely match your logical intention.
> 
> It is the only one that does *not* give me a headache. Reminds me of
sudo
> code.
> 
> > I'm a big C++ programmer but python never fails to astonish
> > me and being both simple to learn while powerfully expressive at the
> > same time. I think its fairly unique in that regard. Python is very
> > object oriented as is C++ but also supports the functional paradigm
> > which, in C++, requires more clumsy and sometimes brain warping
syntax
> > of predicate templates and function objects.
> 
> For a non-programmer who wants to learn at least one language well
enough
> to
> actually use. Would Python make a good choice?

That is the language I recommend.  It has by far the cleanest syntax
I've ever seen, yet have tremendous power as well.  I say "go for it!"

> And no the snake in my barn is not a python:)

Too bad, or we could feed it the rats in the attic.

Michael


From drifter at oppositelock.org  Tue Jan 25 17:20:00 2005
From: drifter at oppositelock.org (Sean Kilpatrick)
Date: Tue Jan 25 17:20:00 2005
Subject: [ale] Pyhon syntax
In-Reply-To: <200501251703.09444@llamallamallama>
References: <1106682269.5875.54.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
	<41F6AFB4.30905@proteus-tech.com>
	<200501251703.09444@llamallamallama>
Message-ID: <200501251715.26235.drifter@oppositelock.org>

On Tuesday 25 January 2005 05:03 pm, William Bagwell wrote:
| And no the snake in my barn is not a python:)


Having spent too many years running a working farm, I can
vouch for the effectiveness of a <large> blacksnake in
deterring rats and mice.  Not quite as effective as a half
dozen barn cats but very useful. The only time a snake truly
disconcerted me was the morning I found the (empty) skin
of an eight-foot long blacksnake drapped over the ceiling
beams in the basement of our house. Never did find the snake
that left it behind, but we had no more mouse problems in the
house after that.

Sean

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From pras at cycloeastern.com  Tue Jan 25 17:37:35 2005
From: pras at cycloeastern.com (pras at cycloeastern.com)
Date: Tue Jan 25 17:37:35 2005
Subject: [ale] Critters in the Attic
In-Reply-To: <200501251449.32074.dcorbin@enttek.com>
References: <001a01c50315$b367fba0$0a00a8c0@atlas>
	<200501251449.32074.dcorbin@enttek.com>
Message-ID: <20050125231043.GA25275@cycloeastern.com>

I hope you are not 5 miles away from Smyrna

On Tue, Jan 25, 2005 at 02:49:32PM -0500, David Corbin wrote:
> On Tuesday 25 January 2005 02:40 pm, Greg wrote:
> > For mice use steel wool.  Put it between the boards of your house and in
> > *any* and *all* holes.  It apparently sticks the little critters in the
> > nose or something but it works.  For your traps I would suggest peanut
> > butter as bait.  I am assuming you are using the big steel teeth mouse
> > traps that kill.  You really don't want to capture and release rodents and
> > such - they just come back.
> 
> Nope.  Cage traps.  Bated with Apple, peanut butter, and seeds.  Worked 
> wonders.  We caught a rat 5+ years ago, we just hauled off some 5+ miles 
> before releasing.
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From scherrey at proteus-tech.com  Tue Jan 25 17:41:55 2005
From: scherrey at proteus-tech.com (Benjamin Scherrey)
Date: Tue Jan 25 17:41:55 2005
Subject: [ale] Pyhon syntax
In-Reply-To: <200501251703.09444@llamallamallama>
References: <1106682269.5875.54.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>	<1106683151.10196.56.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>	<41F6AFB4.30905@proteus-tech.com>
	<200501251703.09444@llamallamallama>
Message-ID: <41F6CA21.4020905@proteus-tech.com>

Absolutely - I think python should be the primary introductory language 
for high level programming and it would serve as an excellent choice for 
most programming projects a developer is likely to encounter in his 
carreer. I honestly can't think of a better language to introduce a new 
programmer to that will actually be useful later on in 'real life'.

    -- Ben Scherrey

William Bagwell wrote:
<snip>

>For a non-programmer who wants to learn at least one language well enough to 
>actually use. Would Python make a good choice?
>
>And no the snake in my barn is not a python:)
>  
>


From MBarnes at tiaa-cref.org  Tue Jan 25 17:49:13 2005
From: MBarnes at tiaa-cref.org (Barnes, Michael)
Date: Tue Jan 25 17:49:13 2005
Subject: [ale] wireless networking
Message-ID: <CB640299E5F9D611813B0002B3B345CA1539FAA9@MSXCHAUSR01>

I am new to linux and have just installed SUSE 9.2 pro. I now need to get my
wireless car working with this distro. Unfortunately, I do not seem to be
able to get the card to activate in this distro. I am using a Hawking HPWG54
card. 

Could someone help me get this working? Thanks

Mike



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From esoteric at 3times25.net  Tue Jan 25 18:26:50 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Tue Jan 25 18:26:50 2005
Subject: [ale] Pyhon syntax
In-Reply-To: <41F6CA21.4020905@proteus-tech.com>
References: <1106682269.5875.54.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>	<1106683151.10196.56.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>	<41F6AFB4.30905@proteus-tech.com>	<200501251703.09444@llamallamallama>
	<41F6CA21.4020905@proteus-tech.com>
Message-ID: <41F6D49A.3070804@3times25.net>

Benjamin Scherrey wrote:
> Absolutely - I think python should be the primary introductory language 
> for high level programming and it would serve as an excellent choice for 
> most programming projects a developer is likely to encounter in his 
> carreer. I honestly can't think of a better language to introduce a new 
> programmer to that will actually be useful later on in 'real life'.

COBOL? :)

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From ringo at margaritasrus.com  Tue Jan 25 18:33:16 2005
From: ringo at margaritasrus.com (ringo)
Date: Tue Jan 25 18:33:16 2005
Subject: [ale] help with lib
In-Reply-To: <41F6CA21.4020905@proteus-tech.com>
Message-ID: <008301c50335$91bc6480$bb00a8c0@Ringo>

Using SUSE 9.2

I'm trying to compile a c program that uses the curses lib, but I get
the error "Cannot find -lcurses"
I went to Yast and searched for "curse" and installed everything
related, including:
Cdk	the runtime for the curses devel kit
Ncurses New curses lib
Ncurses devel
Yast2-ncurses

I also get the error "canot find ltermcap"
But a search with yast shows the termcap lib installed.
What else am I missing?
Ringo




From ringo at margaritasrus.com  Tue Jan 25 19:33:59 2005
From: ringo at margaritasrus.com (ringo)
Date: Tue Jan 25 19:33:59 2005
Subject: [ale] help with lib
In-Reply-To: <008301c50335$91bc6480$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
Message-ID: <009901c5033e$188d0d40$bb00a8c0@Ringo>

After doing a search on the pc I found the directories
usr/include/curses which has curses.h
And users/lib/curses
And usr/lib/termcap
Etc
So they are installed, why would gcc not see them?

My sourcecode is located at
file:/hom/Ringo/Desktop/school/proj1/sailor/src
Should I have it located under usr or something ?
Thanks
Ringo


-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
ringo
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 6:28 PM
To: 'Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts'
Subject: [ale] help with lib

Using SUSE 9.2

I'm trying to compile a c program that uses the curses lib, but I get
the error "Cannot find -lcurses"
I went to Yast and searched for "curse" and installed everything
related, including:
Cdk	the runtime for the curses devel kit
Ncurses New curses lib
Ncurses devel
Yast2-ncurses

I also get the error "canot find ltermcap"
But a search with yast shows the termcap lib installed.
What else am I missing?
Ringo



_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale




From MBarnes at tiaa-cref.org  Tue Jan 25 19:43:25 2005
From: MBarnes at tiaa-cref.org (Barnes, Michael)
Date: Tue Jan 25 19:43:25 2005
Subject: [ale] help with lib
Message-ID: <CB640299E5F9D611813B0002B3B345CA1539FAAD@MSXCHAUSR01>

it has been a long time since I used curse... However, I believe that you
will need to link with curses.o if that is not in your library then I
believe you will get the errors that you are talking about. If not .o then
it could me .a

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org]On Behalf Of ringo
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 7:29 PM
To: 'Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts'
Subject: RE: [ale] help with lib


After doing a search on the pc I found the directories
usr/include/curses which has curses.h
And users/lib/curses
And usr/lib/termcap
Etc
So they are installed, why would gcc not see them?

My sourcecode is located at
file:/hom/Ringo/Desktop/school/proj1/sailor/src
Should I have it located under usr or something ?
Thanks
Ringo


-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
ringo
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 6:28 PM
To: 'Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts'
Subject: [ale] help with lib

Using SUSE 9.2

I'm trying to compile a c program that uses the curses lib, but I get
the error "Cannot find -lcurses"
I went to Yast and searched for "curse" and installed everything
related, including:
Cdk	the runtime for the curses devel kit
Ncurses New curses lib
Ncurses devel
Yast2-ncurses

I also get the error "canot find ltermcap"
But a search with yast shows the termcap lib installed.
What else am I missing?
Ringo



_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale



_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


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From esoteric at 3times25.net  Tue Jan 25 20:45:53 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Tue Jan 25 20:45:53 2005
Subject: [ale] wireless networking
In-Reply-To: <CB640299E5F9D611813B0002B3B345CA1539FAA9@MSXCHAUSR01>
References: <CB640299E5F9D611813B0002B3B345CA1539FAA9@MSXCHAUSR01>
Message-ID: <41F6F544.1010704@3times25.net>

Barnes, Michael wrote:
> I am new to linux and have just installed SUSE 9.2 pro. I now need to get my
> wireless car working with this distro. Unfortunately, I do not seem to be
> able to get the card to activate in this distro. I am using a Hawking HPWG54
> card. 
> 
> Could someone help me get this working? Thanks

You've got to be careful when selecting a g wifi cards for Linux.  Many 
are not supported, or require wrappers.

run lspci and see if it detects the card.  If you don't understand the 
output, post it here and we'll see what we can figure out.

Are you sure it's not the hwp54g card?  I can't find any reference to an 
hpwg54.

Checking out google, you might be in luck.  There is a version of the 
hwp54g that uses the prism54 chipset.  Look to http://www.prism54.org/ 
for info there.  I don't see a reference to it there myself though. :(

Here's the google link I pulled up as a tinyurl: http://tinyurl.com/4w64n

Thing is, if it was a prism chipset, I would have expected Suse to have 
properly configured it or at least recognized it.

I did get a good number of hits on google, you might give that a spin as 
well.  If you can determine what the chipset is, that will help folks in 
attempts to help you.

There's also a thread on this card at linuxquestions:

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?s=&threadid=278415&highlight=HWP54G

Here's the tinyurl for the same link: http://tinyurl.com/4shpr

See if you can determine the chipset and post more info.  Also check the 
above thread.
-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From dcorbin at machturtle.com  Tue Jan 25 20:50:23 2005
From: dcorbin at machturtle.com (David Corbin)
Date: Tue Jan 25 20:50:23 2005
Subject: [ale] Critters in the Attic
In-Reply-To: <1106662022.5875.5.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
References: <200501250859.02301.dcorbin@enttek.com>
	<1106662022.5875.5.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
Message-ID: <200501252044.28874.dcorbin@machturtle.com>

And I suppose I'd need  a video capture card.  Any recommendations for one 
that Linux supports well?


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Tue Jan 25 20:57:36 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Tue Jan 25 20:57:36 2005
Subject: [ale] help with lib
In-Reply-To: <008301c50335$91bc6480$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
References: <008301c50335$91bc6480$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
Message-ID: <41F6F7FB.8040602@3times25.net>

ringo wrote:
> Using SUSE 9.2
> 
> I'm trying to compile a c program that uses the curses lib, but I get
> the error "Cannot find -lcurses"
> I went to Yast and searched for "curse" and installed everything
> related, including:
> Cdk	the runtime for the curses devel kit
> Ncurses New curses lib
> Ncurses devel

Does /usr/lib/libncurses.a exist?

I think this is what it's looking for.

What does the following return:

ldconfig -v |grep libncurses

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Tue Jan 25 21:10:43 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Tue Jan 25 21:10:43 2005
Subject: [ale] Critters in the Attic
In-Reply-To: <200501252044.28874.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
References: <200501250859.02301.dcorbin@enttek.com>	<1106662022.5875.5.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
	<200501252044.28874.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
Message-ID: <41F6FB16.1020902@3times25.net>

David Corbin wrote:
> And I suppose I'd need  a video capture card.  Any recommendations for one 
> that Linux supports well?

Most any card that has a bt848 or bt878 chipset.  Ituner makes a couple, 
ranging from about $25-$400, depending on how many inputs and how many 
chipsets on each card.

http://www.ituner.com/


-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From christopher at bergeron.com  Tue Jan 25 21:13:31 2005
From: christopher at bergeron.com (Christopher Bergeron)
Date: Tue Jan 25 21:13:31 2005
Subject: [ale] Critters in the Attic
In-Reply-To: <41F6BB55.2070701@tyderia.net>
References: <001a01c50315$b367fba0$0a00a8c0@atlas>	<200501251449.32074.dcorbin@enttek.com>	<1106688572.16329.163.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
	<41F6BB55.2070701@tyderia.net>
Message-ID: <41F6FBDE.5010101@bergeron.com>

Mike, I think that if it's inside your home, your personal 
"jurisdiction" will override state hunting laws.

Let us know how it turns out.

Kind regards,
CB




Mike Murphy wrote:

> On 01/25/2005 04:29 PM, James P. Kinney III wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately, squirrels are protected in Dekalb County (WHY?!?! They
>> are as prevalent as pigeons) else I would go "hunting" with the .22 shot
>> shells in the attic.
>>
>>
>
> There is an off-color Vernon Jones joke in there somewhere, but I'll 
> leave it as an exercise for the reader.
>
> Mike
>
>


From ringo at margaritasrus.com  Tue Jan 25 21:16:55 2005
From: ringo at margaritasrus.com (ringo)
Date: Tue Jan 25 21:16:55 2005
Subject: [ale] help with lib
In-Reply-To: <41F6F7FB.8040602@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <00a701c5034c$7b0e74f0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>

I get "bash: ldconfig: command not found"
If I browse an dlook though I see
Usr/lib/libcurses.so.1.0.0 
and
Usr/lib/libcurses.so.1
Usr/lib/curses/libcurses.a
Usr/lib/curses/libcurses.so

Ringo
-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
Geoffrey
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 8:53 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] help with lib

ringo wrote:
> Using SUSE 9.2
> 
> I'm trying to compile a c program that uses the curses lib, but I get
> the error "Cannot find -lcurses"
> I went to Yast and searched for "curse" and installed everything
> related, including:
> Cdk	the runtime for the curses devel kit
> Ncurses New curses lib
> Ncurses devel

Does /usr/lib/libncurses.a exist?

I think this is what it's looking for.

What does the following return:

ldconfig -v |grep libncurses

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale




From esoteric at 3times25.net  Tue Jan 25 21:18:25 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Tue Jan 25 21:18:25 2005
Subject: [ale] Critters in the Attic
In-Reply-To: <41F6FBDE.5010101@bergeron.com>
References: <001a01c50315$b367fba0$0a00a8c0@atlas>	<200501251449.32074.dcorbin@enttek.com>	<1106688572.16329.163.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>	<41F6BB55.2070701@tyderia.net>
	<41F6FBDE.5010101@bergeron.com>
Message-ID: <41F6FCC9.10201@3times25.net>

Christopher Bergeron wrote:
> Mike, I think that if it's inside your home, your personal 
> "jurisdiction" will override state hunting laws.

I'm thinking take the caddy shack approach.  Light a stick of dynamite, 
throw it up in the attic, yell 'fire in the hole' and duck!

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Tue Jan 25 21:19:26 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Tue Jan 25 21:19:26 2005
Subject: [ale] help with lib
In-Reply-To: <00a701c5034c$7b0e74f0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
References: <00a701c5034c$7b0e74f0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
Message-ID: <41F6FD0F.8040100@3times25.net>

ringo wrote:
> I get "bash: ldconfig: command not found"

Oops:

/sbin/ldconfig -v |grep ncurses

> If I browse an dlook though I see
> Usr/lib/libcurses.so.1.0.0 
> and
> Usr/lib/libcurses.so.1
> Usr/lib/curses/libcurses.a
> Usr/lib/curses/libcurses.so

That should be what you're looking for.  Do the ldconfig command above 
and see if it get's spit out.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From ringo at margaritasrus.com  Tue Jan 25 21:31:48 2005
From: ringo at margaritasrus.com (ringo)
Date: Tue Jan 25 21:31:48 2005
Subject: [ale] help with lib
In-Reply-To: <41F6FD0F.8040100@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <00b301c5034e$844f0230$bb00a8c0@Ringo>

A bunch of lines of "Can't stat /usr/.....
Then 
libncurses.so.5 -> libncurses.so.5.4
libncurses.so.4 -> libncurses.so.4.2

if I do the same with libcurses I get
libnurses.so.1 -> libncurses.so.1.0.0
Ringo

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
Geoffrey
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 9:15 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] help with lib

ringo wrote:
> I get "bash: ldconfig: command not found"

Oops:

/sbin/ldconfig -v |grep ncurses

> If I browse an dlook though I see
> Usr/lib/libcurses.so.1.0.0 
> and
> Usr/lib/libcurses.so.1
> Usr/lib/curses/libcurses.a
> Usr/lib/curses/libcurses.so

That should be what you're looking for.  Do the ldconfig command above 
and see if it get's spit out.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale




From sdurdin at tkwiz.com  Tue Jan 25 21:50:20 2005
From: sdurdin at tkwiz.com (Steve Durdin)
Date: Tue Jan 25 21:50:20 2005
Subject: [ale] Fedora 2 modem recommendation
Message-ID: <005f01c50327$ccb0bdb0$478456d1@athena>

Can anyone recommend a 56kb PCI modem for use on Fedora that does not become useless when the kernel is updated to a newer version?  I have an SM56 that only works on older kernels and I don't want to mess around with the patches that are available on the web.

Thanks,

Steve
-------------- next part --------------
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From jsheets at yahoo.com  Tue Jan 25 22:24:12 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Tue Jan 25 22:24:12 2005
Subject: [ale] Fedora 2 modem recommendation
In-Reply-To: <005f01c50327$ccb0bdb0$478456d1@athena>
Message-ID: <20050126031917.10976.qmail@web54401.mail.yahoo.com>

U.S. Robotics Sportster.  *NOT* the Winmodem,
preferrably one with the dip switches.

--J


--- Steve Durdin <sdurdin at tkwiz.com> wrote:

> Can anyone recommend a 56kb PCI modem for use on
> Fedora that does not become useless when the kernel
> is updated to a newer version?  I have an SM56 that
> only works on older kernels and I don't want to mess
> around with the patches that are available on the
> web.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Steve>
_______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From pete.hardie at gmail.com  Tue Jan 25 22:45:56 2005
From: pete.hardie at gmail.com (Pete Hardie)
Date: Tue Jan 25 22:45:56 2005
Subject: [ale] Subversion usage
In-Reply-To: <41F6AC50.60508@alltc.com>
References: <31b322400501251119743bd3ad@mail.gmail.com>
	<41F6AC50.60508@alltc.com>
Message-ID: <31b3224005012519411ae331a5@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 15:30:08 -0500, Barry Hawkins <barry at alltc.com> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Pete Hardie wrote:
> | Hello all,
> |
> | As a break from the usually scheduled BellSouth hatefest, I have a
> | question about Subversion - I'm using it at home to version my home
> | projects, and possibly my home dir, as well as the config setups for
> | various installed tools.  Is it better/typical to create a repository
> | per project, or just one big repository with each project a subdir?
> |
> | TIA,
> |
> It agree with the other post that it depends on several factors.
> Fortunately, one of the leading books on Subversion[0] is also open
> source, so you can read and decide for yourself:
> 
> [0] - http://svnbook.red-bean.com/


"Do not go to the ALEs for advice, for they will say both no and yes"
:->

I checked out the reference and found that even the experts say "It
depends", but I think that the low amount of stuff I'll be putting in
the repository favors the single repository approach

Thanks for the advice, everyone!


-- 
Better Living Through Bitmaps


From ringodavis at hotmail.com  Tue Jan 25 23:12:33 2005
From: ringodavis at hotmail.com (ringo davis)
Date: Tue Jan 25 23:12:33 2005
Subject: [ale] help with lib
Message-ID: <BAY16-F20ED973163E70FBE4C9159DB870@phx.gbl>

Here is exactly the results from ldconfig.


linux:/home/Ringo/Desktop/school/proj1/sailor/src # make sailor
gcc sailor.c navigate.o -o sailor -lcurses -ltermcap -lm
/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i586-suse-linux/3.3.4/../../../../i586-suse-linux/bin/ld: 
cannot find -lcurses
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
make: *** [sailor] Error 1
linux:/home/Ringo/Desktop/school/proj1/sailor/src # /sbin/ldconfig -v |grep 
libcurses
/sbin/ldconfig: Can't stat /usr/X11R6/lib/Xaw95: No such file or directory
/sbin/ldconfig: Can't stat /usr/X11R6/lib/Xaw3d: No such file or directory
/sbin/ldconfig: Can't stat /usr/i486-linux/lib: No such file or directory
/sbin/ldconfig: Can't stat /usr/i486-linux-libc5/lib: No such file or 
directory
/sbin/ldconfig: Can't stat /usr/i486-linux-libc6/lib: No such file or 
directory
/sbin/ldconfig: Can't stat /usr/i486-linuxaout/lib: No such file or 
directory
/sbin/ldconfig: Can't stat /usr/i386-suse-linux/lib: No such file or 
directory
/sbin/ldconfig: Can't stat /usr/openwin/lib: No such file or directory
/sbin/ldconfig: Can't stat /opt/kde/lib: No such file or directory
/sbin/ldconfig: Can't stat /opt/kde2/lib: No such file or directory
/sbin/ldconfig: Can't stat /opt/gnome2/lib: No such file or directory
/sbin/ldconfig: Cannot stat /usr/lib/libpt.so: No such file or directory
        libcurses.so.1 -> libcurses.so.1.0.0
linux:/home/Ringo/Desktop/school/proj1/sailor/src #

_________________________________________________________________
Don?t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/


From jloden at toughguy.net  Wed Jan 26 01:34:57 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Wed Jan 26 01:34:57 2005
Subject: [ale] Pyhon syntax
In-Reply-To: <200501251703.09444@llamallamallama>
References: <1106682269.5875.54.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
	<41F6AFB4.30905@proteus-tech.com>
	<200501251703.09444@llamallamallama>
Message-ID: <200501260048.50703.jloden@toughguy.net>

As a sometimes programmer, I can definitely say that I love Python.  I've 
tried programming in Java, C++, some PHP, and Python. I mostly learn whatever 
comes my way and is useful to me, but I've been wanting to learn at least one 
language _well_

>From the first day I started learning Python, it's fit like a glove for my 

purposes.  It's the only language that my brain seems to understand, the 
logic makes sense, and it's my favorite code to read and write by far.  It's 
comfortable, powerful, and fast/easy to develop in, especially when you work 
with strings a lot like. It's also been so comfortable that I'm finally 
starting to think like a programmer, regardless of language.  In short, I 
think it's an excellent choice if you want to pick up a programming language.

-Jay

On Tuesday 25 January 2005 05:03 pm, William Bagwell wrote:
> For a non-programmer who wants to learn at least one language well enough
> to actually use. Would Python make a good choice?
>
> And no the snake in my barn is not a python:)


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Wed Jan 26 06:50:35 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Wed Jan 26 06:50:35 2005
Subject: [ale] Fedora 2 modem recommendation
In-Reply-To: <005f01c50327$ccb0bdb0$478456d1@athena>
References: <005f01c50327$ccb0bdb0$478456d1@athena>
Message-ID: <41F7827E.4070805@3times25.net>

Steve Durdin wrote:
> Can anyone recommend a 56kb PCI modem for use on Fedora that does not
> become useless when the kernel is updated to a newer version?  I have
> an SM56 that only works on older kernels and I don't want to mess
> around with the patches that are available on the web.

Make sure you get a real modem.  You can tell the difference, typically 
by the price and system requirements.  I've had luck with a USR pci 
modem, but don't have it any longer, thus can't give you any specs.

USR is real good about noting if it's a 'win-modem.'

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Wed Jan 26 06:53:06 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Wed Jan 26 06:53:06 2005
Subject: [ale] help with lib
In-Reply-To: <00b301c5034e$844f0230$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
References: <00b301c5034e$844f0230$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
Message-ID: <41F782F5.2020708@3times25.net>

ringo wrote:
> A bunch of lines of "Can't stat /usr/.....
> Then 
> libncurses.so.5 -> libncurses.so.5.4
> libncurses.so.4 -> libncurses.so.4.2
> 
> if I do the same with libcurses I get
> libnurses.so.1 -> libncurses.so.1.0.0

So you have the library and the system knows where it is.  Are you 
attempting to compile code that comes with a makefile?  If so, can you 
post the makefile?

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From preston.boyington at mindspring.com  Wed Jan 26 07:26:39 2005
From: preston.boyington at mindspring.com (Preston Boyington)
Date: Wed Jan 26 07:26:39 2005
Subject: [ale] Fedora 2 modem recommendation
In-Reply-To: <005f01c50327$ccb0bdb0$478456d1@athena>
References: <005f01c50327$ccb0bdb0$478456d1@athena>
Message-ID: <41F78996.2080304@mindspring.com>

Steve Durdin wrote:
> Can anyone recommend a 56kb PCI modem for use on Fedora that does not 
> become useless when the kernel is updated to a newer version?

I cannot recommend a PCI modem.  I stopped using a PCI modem years ago
and now will only use a decent external modem.

Here is a list of the problems I DON'T have:
1) having to reboot my computer because of a modem "lock" (just turn
modem off and back on, not whole computer)
2) finding some module/string/whatever to make my modem work.  i plug
the thing in and start wvdial/kppp/gnome-dialer/pon
3) wondering if the thing is working (are the lights blinking?)
4) compatability (it works with every operating system)
5) upgradeability (add another at any time, no need to open the case)

I use a Zoom brand modem.  I bought it new off eBay for $45 and after a
week purchased the other two (new) for roughly the same price.

I still have one unopened in my closet.  The other I loaned to my wife's
aunt because she had bought 4 internal modems over a year.  She loves
this external modem and has stated that I won't be getting it back
anytime soon (it's ok she's old and I can wait).  She no longer has
problems connecting to her local internet service and doesn't get
dropped like before.  She is 67 dual-booting ME and Xandros PE.  She
uses ME for some greeting card program for the garden club (and the
impulse buy at Wal-Mart), but Xandros for everything else.  When she
gets back from her camping/hiking next week I am going to upgrade her to
SuSE 9.2 or Debian Sarge so her DVD burner will work to full capacity.

Preston


From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Wed Jan 26 08:06:55 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Wed Jan 26 08:06:55 2005
Subject: [ale] Fedora 2 modem recommendation
In-Reply-To: <41F78996.2080304@mindspring.com>
References: <005f01c50327$ccb0bdb0$478456d1@athena>
	<41F78996.2080304@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <1106744541.23708.30.camel@linux.linxdev.com>

I use two of these to do all my develoment in modem communications:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3313&item=5745461687&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW


Awesome piece of equipment.

On Wed, 2005-01-26 at 07:14, Preston Boyington wrote:
> Steve Durdin wrote:
> > Can anyone recommend a 56kb PCI modem for use on Fedora that does not 
> > become useless when the kernel is updated to a newer version?
> 
> I cannot recommend a PCI modem.  I stopped using a PCI modem years ago
> and now will only use a decent external modem.
> 
> Here is a list of the problems I DON'T have:
> 1) having to reboot my computer because of a modem "lock" (just turn
> modem off and back on, not whole computer)
> 2) finding some module/string/whatever to make my modem work.  i plug
> the thing in and start wvdial/kppp/gnome-dialer/pon
> 3) wondering if the thing is working (are the lights blinking?)
> 4) compatability (it works with every operating system)
> 5) upgradeability (add another at any time, no need to open the case)
> 
> I use a Zoom brand modem.  I bought it new off eBay for $45 and after a
> week purchased the other two (new) for roughly the same price.
> 
> I still have one unopened in my closet.  The other I loaned to my wife's
> aunt because she had bought 4 internal modems over a year.  She loves
> this external modem and has stated that I won't be getting it back
> anytime soon (it's ok she's old and I can wait).  She no longer has
> problems connecting to her local internet service and doesn't get
> dropped like before.  She is 67 dual-booting ME and Xandros PE.  She
> uses ME for some greeting card program for the garden club (and the
> impulse buy at Wal-Mart), but Xandros for everything else.  When she
> gets back from her camping/hiking next week I am going to upgrade her to
> SuSE 9.2 or Debian Sarge so her DVD burner will work to full capacity.
> 
> Preston
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From ringodavis at hotmail.com  Wed Jan 26 08:59:59 2005
From: ringodavis at hotmail.com (ringo davis)
Date: Wed Jan 26 08:59:59 2005
Subject: [ale] help with lib
In-Reply-To: <41F782F5.2020708@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <BAY16-F36B503CC2B5CAB1C3B8B8FDB870@phx.gbl>

Yes,The makefile was supplied with the project.  Here it is:

navigate.o: navigate.c sailor.h
	gcc -c navigate.c

sailor: sailor.c sailor.h navigate.o
	gcc sailor.c navigate.o -o sailor -lcurses -ltermcap -lm

clean:
	rm *.o

When I started with Redhat this worked fine, then I installed SUSE. ALso I 
have been using this makefile all week with cygwin on my wiindows machine
Thanks, Ringo




>From: Geoffrey <esoteric at 3times25.net>
>Reply-To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org>
>To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org>
>Subject: Re: [ale] help with lib
>Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 06:45:57 -0500
>
>ringo wrote:
>>A bunch of lines of "Can't stat /usr/.....
>>Then libncurses.so.5 -> libncurses.so.5.4
>>libncurses.so.4 -> libncurses.so.4.2
>>
>>if I do the same with libcurses I get
>>libnurses.so.1 -> libncurses.so.1.0.0
>
>So you have the library and the system knows where it is.  Are you 
>attempting to compile code that comes with a makefile?  If so, can you post 
>the makefile?
>
>--
>Until later, Geoffrey
>_______________________________________________
>Ale mailing list
>Ale at ale.org
>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

_________________________________________________________________
Don?t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/


From MBarnes at tiaa-cref.org  Wed Jan 26 09:05:00 2005
From: MBarnes at tiaa-cref.org (Barnes, Michael)
Date: Wed Jan 26 09:05:00 2005
Subject: [ale] help with lib
Message-ID: <CB640299E5F9D611813B0002B3B345CA1539FAAE@MSXCHAUSR01>

Try changing the -lcurses to -lncurses
I think it should work then.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org]On Behalf Of ringo
davis
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 8:53 AM
To: ale at ale.org
Subject: Re: [ale] help with lib


Yes,The makefile was supplied with the project.  Here it is:

navigate.o: navigate.c sailor.h
	gcc -c navigate.c

sailor: sailor.c sailor.h navigate.o
	gcc sailor.c navigate.o -o sailor -lcurses -ltermcap -lm

clean:
	rm *.o

When I started with Redhat this worked fine, then I installed SUSE. ALso I 
have been using this makefile all week with cygwin on my wiindows machine
Thanks, Ringo




>From: Geoffrey <esoteric at 3times25.net>
>Reply-To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org>
>To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org>
>Subject: Re: [ale] help with lib
>Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 06:45:57 -0500
>
>ringo wrote:
>>A bunch of lines of "Can't stat /usr/.....
>>Then libncurses.so.5 -> libncurses.so.5.4
>>libncurses.so.4 -> libncurses.so.4.2
>>
>>if I do the same with libcurses I get
>>libnurses.so.1 -> libncurses.so.1.0.0
>
>So you have the library and the system knows where it is.  Are you 
>attempting to compile code that comes with a makefile?  If so, can you post

>the makefile?
>
>--
>Until later, Geoffrey
>_______________________________________________
>Ale mailing list
>Ale at ale.org
>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

_________________________________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


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From mhirsch at nubridges.com  Wed Jan 26 09:06:40 2005
From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael Hirsch)
Date: Wed Jan 26 09:06:40 2005
Subject: [ale] help with lib
Message-ID: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CB66@germanium.numethods.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
ringo
> davis
> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 11:07 PM
> To: ale at ale.org
> Subject: [ale] help with lib
> 
> Here is exactly the results from ldconfig.
> 
> 
> linux:/home/Ringo/Desktop/school/proj1/sailor/src # make sailor
> gcc sailor.c navigate.o -o sailor -lcurses -ltermcap -lm
>
/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i586-suse-linux/3.3.4/../../../../i586-suse-linux/bin/l
d:
> cannot find -lcurses

You might try switching the makefile to linke with ncurses rather than
curses.  (so replace '-lcurses' with '-lncurses').  It looks to me like
your installation is more ncurses based, though it does seem like curses
should work.

Michael




From ringodavis at hotmail.com  Wed Jan 26 09:27:02 2005
From: ringodavis at hotmail.com (ringo davis)
Date: Wed Jan 26 09:27:02 2005
Subject: [ale] help with lib
In-Reply-To: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CB66@germanium.numethods.com>
Message-ID: <BAY16-F32CBA773E91AB51E19904DDB870@phx.gbl>

That fixes the curses err, now it complains about libtermcap (which is also 
installed).

/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i586-suse-linux/3.3.4/../../../../i586-suse-linux/bin/ld: 
cannot find -ltermcap
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
ringo at linux:~/Desktop/school/proj1/sailor/src>

ldconfig returns:

linux:/home/Ringo/Desktop/school/proj1/sailor/src # /sbin/ldconfig -v |grep 
termcap
/sbin/ldconfig: Can't stat /usr/X11R6/lib/Xaw95: No such file or directory
/sbin/ldconfig: Can't stat /usr/X11R6/lib/Xaw3d: No such file or directory
/sbin/ldconfig: Can't stat /usr/i486-linux/lib: No such file or directory
/sbin/ldconfig: Can't stat /usr/i486-linux-libc5/lib: No such file or 
directory
/sbin/ldconfig: Can't stat /usr/i486-linux-libc6/lib: No such file or 
directory
/sbin/ldconfig: Can't stat /usr/i486-linuxaout/lib: No such file or 
directory
/sbin/ldconfig: Can't stat /usr/i386-suse-linux/lib: No such file or 
directory
/sbin/ldconfig: Can't stat /usr/openwin/lib: No such file or directory
/sbin/ldconfig: Can't stat /opt/kde/lib: No such file or directory
/sbin/ldconfig: Can't stat /opt/kde2/lib: No such file or directory
/sbin/ldconfig: Can't stat /opt/gnome2/lib: No such file or directory
/sbin/ldconfig: Cannot stat /usr/lib/libpt.so: No such file or directory
        libtermcap.so.2 -> libtermcap.so.2.0.8
linux:/home/Ringo/Desktop/school/proj1/sailor/src #

So what the??? is going on?
Thanks Ringo



>From: "Michael Hirsch" <mhirsch at nubridges.com>
>Reply-To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org>
>To: "Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts" <ale at ale.org>
>Subject: RE: [ale] help with lib
>Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 09:00:33 -0500
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
>ringo
> > davis
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 11:07 PM
> > To: ale at ale.org
> > Subject: [ale] help with lib
> >
> > Here is exactly the results from ldconfig.
> >
> >
> > linux:/home/Ringo/Desktop/school/proj1/sailor/src # make sailor
> > gcc sailor.c navigate.o -o sailor -lcurses -ltermcap -lm
> >
>/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i586-suse-linux/3.3.4/../../../../i586-suse-linux/bin/l
>d:
> > cannot find -lcurses
>
>You might try switching the makefile to linke with ncurses rather than
>curses.  (so replace '-lcurses' with '-lncurses').  It looks to me like
>your installation is more ncurses based, though it does seem like curses
>should work.
>
>Michael
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Ale mailing list
>Ale at ale.org
>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/


From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Wed Jan 26 09:35:52 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Wed Jan 26 09:35:52 2005
Subject: [ale] Fedora 2 modem recommendation
In-Reply-To: <1106744541.23708.30.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
References: <005f01c50327$ccb0bdb0$478456d1@athena>
	<41F78996.2080304@mindspring.com>
	<1106744541.23708.30.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
Message-ID: <1106749854.16329.166.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>

On Wed, 2005-01-26 at 08:02 -0500, Christopher Fowler wrote:
> I use two of these to do all my develoment in modem communications:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3313&item=5745461687&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
> 
> 
> Awesome piece of equipment.

Does this thing simulate dialtone, busy, ringing, etc? What all can it
do?

-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From fletch at phydeaux.org  Wed Jan 26 10:27:52 2005
From: fletch at phydeaux.org (fletch at phydeaux.org)
Date: Wed Jan 26 10:27:52 2005
Subject: [ale] Pyhon syntax
Message-ID: <54612.24.98.129.46.1106752999.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org>

>>>>> "Benjamin" == Benjamin Scherrey <scherrey at proteus-tech.com> writes:

    Benjamin> Absolutely - I think python should be the primary
    Benjamin> introductory language for high level programming and it
    Benjamin> would serve as an excellent choice for most programming
    Benjamin> projects a developer is likely to encounter in his
    Benjamin> carreer. I honestly can't think of a better language to
    Benjamin> introduce a new programmer to that will actually be
    Benjamin> useful later on in 'real life'.

Python -- Pascal for the new millennium :)

/me goes back to reading the new edition of _Programming Ruby_ . . .

And as a disclaimer, yes you should try Python (at least enough until
you get the bad taste in your mouth :).  And Perl, of course.  And give
Ruby a look (or at least glance at the "Poignant Guide" for the star
monkeys; http://poignantguide.net/ruby/).  If you can pick up one of
{Perl,Ruby,Python} and a smattering of C you'll be able to handle most
anything.



-- 
Fletch                | "If you find my answers frightening,       __`'/|
fletch at phydeaux.org|  Vincent, you should cease askin'          \ o.O'
                      |  scary questions." -- Jules                =(___)=
                      |                                               U


From ale1 at cybertechcafe.net  Wed Jan 26 10:45:18 2005
From: ale1 at cybertechcafe.net (Nathan J. Underwood)
Date: Wed Jan 26 10:45:18 2005
Subject: [ale] Fedora 2 modem recommendation
In-Reply-To: <41F78996.2080304@mindspring.com>
References: <005f01c50327$ccb0bdb0$478456d1@athena>
	<41F78996.2080304@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <41F7BA00.70404@cybertechcafe.net>

I concur, use an external if at all possible.
--
registered linux user # 73046

Nathan J. Underwood
Cyber Tech Cafe' <><
http://www.cybertechcafe.net

Preston Boyington wrote:
> Steve Durdin wrote:
> 
>> Can anyone recommend a 56kb PCI modem for use on Fedora that does not 
>> become useless when the kernel is updated to a newer version?
> 
> 
> I cannot recommend a PCI modem.  I stopped using a PCI modem years ago
> and now will only use a decent external modem.
> 
> Here is a list of the problems I DON'T have:
> 1) having to reboot my computer because of a modem "lock" (just turn
> modem off and back on, not whole computer)
> 2) finding some module/string/whatever to make my modem work.  i plug
> the thing in and start wvdial/kppp/gnome-dialer/pon
> 3) wondering if the thing is working (are the lights blinking?)
> 4) compatability (it works with every operating system)
> 5) upgradeability (add another at any time, no need to open the case)
> 
> I use a Zoom brand modem.  I bought it new off eBay for $45 and after a
> week purchased the other two (new) for roughly the same price.
> 
> I still have one unopened in my closet.  The other I loaned to my wife's
> aunt because she had bought 4 internal modems over a year.  She loves
> this external modem and has stated that I won't be getting it back
> anytime soon (it's ok she's old and I can wait).  She no longer has
> problems connecting to her local internet service and doesn't get
> dropped like before.  She is 67 dual-booting ME and Xandros PE.  She
> uses ME for some greeting card program for the garden club (and the
> impulse buy at Wal-Mart), but Xandros for everything else.  When she
> gets back from her camping/hiking next week I am going to upgrade her to
> SuSE 9.2 or Debian Sarge so her DVD burner will work to full capacity.
> 
> Preston
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From jasonday at worldnet.att.net  Wed Jan 26 10:52:29 2005
From: jasonday at worldnet.att.net (Jason Day)
Date: Wed Jan 26 10:52:29 2005
Subject: [ale] help with lib
In-Reply-To: <BAY16-F36B503CC2B5CAB1C3B8B8FDB870@phx.gbl>
References: <41F782F5.2020708@3times25.net>
	<BAY16-F36B503CC2B5CAB1C3B8B8FDB870@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20050126154758.GL7913@worldnet.att.net>

On Wed, Jan 26, 2005 at 08:52:58AM -0500, ringo davis wrote:
> Yes,The makefile was supplied with the project.  Here it is:
> 
> navigate.o: navigate.c sailor.h
> 	gcc -c navigate.c
> 
> sailor: sailor.c sailor.h navigate.o
> 	gcc sailor.c navigate.o -o sailor -lcurses -ltermcap -lm

Try changing this line to this:

 	gcc sailor.c navigate.o -o sailor -L/usr/lib -lcurses -ltermcap -lm
-- 
Jason Day                                       jasonday at
http://jasonday.home.att.net                    worldnet dot att dot net
 
"Of course I'm paranoid, everyone is trying to kill me."
    -- Weyoun-6, Star Trek: Deep Space 9


From rdavis at panasonicatlanta.com  Wed Jan 26 10:57:19 2005
From: rdavis at panasonicatlanta.com (Davis, Ringo Lester)
Date: Wed Jan 26 10:57:19 2005
Subject: [ale] help with lib
Message-ID: <28C67C8F8DA9124888FA2620399BCA6A01B7B802@atlexc01.panasonicatlanta.com>

I still get the exact same errors.
Ringo


-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
Jason Day
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 10:48 AM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] help with lib

On Wed, Jan 26, 2005 at 08:52:58AM -0500, ringo davis wrote:
> Yes,The makefile was supplied with the project.  Here it is:
> 
> navigate.o: navigate.c sailor.h
> 	gcc -c navigate.c
> 
> sailor: sailor.c sailor.h navigate.o
> 	gcc sailor.c navigate.o -o sailor -lcurses -ltermcap -lm

Try changing this line to this:

 	gcc sailor.c navigate.o -o sailor -L/usr/lib -lcurses -ltermcap
-lm
-- 
Jason Day                                       jasonday at
http://jasonday.home.att.net                    worldnet dot att dot net
 
"Of course I'm paranoid, everyone is trying to kill me."
    -- Weyoun-6, Star Trek: Deep Space 9
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale 
 
 --Appended by Panasonic Mobile Communications
 Development Corporation of U.S.A.-----This e-mail
 and any attachments may contain information that is
 confidential, proprietary, privileged or otherwise
 protected by law. The information is solely intended
 for the named addressee (or a person responsible for
 delivering it to the addressee). If you are not the
 intended recipient of this message, you are not
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 have received this e-mail in error, please notify
 the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete
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From jasonday at worldnet.att.net  Wed Jan 26 10:59:05 2005
From: jasonday at worldnet.att.net (Jason Day)
Date: Wed Jan 26 10:59:05 2005
Subject: [ale] help with lib
In-Reply-To: <BAY16-F32CBA773E91AB51E19904DDB870@phx.gbl>
References: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CB66@germanium.numethods.com>
	<BAY16-F32CBA773E91AB51E19904DDB870@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <20050126155429.GM7913@worldnet.att.net>

On Wed, Jan 26, 2005 at 09:17:57AM -0500, ringo davis wrote:
> That fixes the curses err, now it complains about libtermcap (which is also 
> installed).
[snip]

The ldconfig program maintains a cache of shared object files, aka DLLs.
It looks like your program is trying to link to a static library file,
however, not a shared library.  So, even though ldconfig knows how to
find libtermcap.so, that doesn't help because your program wants to link
with libtermcap.a.  Make sure the link line in your Makefile passes the
library path with the -L option.

For example:

       gcc -o foo foo.o bar.o baz.o -ltermcap -L/usr/lib

The -L option tells gcc to look in the /usr/lib directory for .a files.
This of course assumes that libtermcap.a is in fact in /usr/lib.

HTH,
Jason
-- 
Jason Day                                       jasonday at
http://jasonday.home.att.net                    worldnet dot att dot net
 
"Of course I'm paranoid, everyone is trying to kill me."
    -- Weyoun-6, Star Trek: Deep Space 9


From rdavis at panasonicatlanta.com  Wed Jan 26 11:15:53 2005
From: rdavis at panasonicatlanta.com (Davis, Ringo Lester)
Date: Wed Jan 26 11:15:53 2005
Subject: [ale] help with lib
Message-ID: <28C67C8F8DA9124888FA2620399BCA6A01B7B803@atlexc01.panasonicatlanta.com>

Weirder and weirder.

I tried this

gcc sailor.c navigate.o -o sailor -L/usr/lib/curses  -L/usr/lib/termcap
-lcurses -ltermcap -lm

 

because those are the directories the files are in.

It then compiles without errors.

I run the program by going up a directory and typing ./demo.

Demo is the following file

src/sailor < test_worlds/test1

 

so it runs sailor.exe and takes test1 as its parameter.

But here is the error I get.

./demo: line 1: 8155 Segmentation Fault src/sailor < test_worlds/test1.

 

I know the program runs on Cygwin, Also if I run the example program
without recompiling it works, but compiling makes it give the above
error, so something is still wrong.

Any ideas?

Thanks

Ringo

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
Jason Day
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 10:55 AM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] help with lib

 

On Wed, Jan 26, 2005 at 09:17:57AM -0500, ringo davis wrote:

> That fixes the curses err, now it complains about libtermcap (which is
also 

> installed).

[snip]

 

The ldconfig program maintains a cache of shared object files, aka DLLs.

It looks like your program is trying to link to a static library file,

however, not a shared library.  So, even though ldconfig knows how to

find libtermcap.so, that doesn't help because your program wants to link

with libtermcap.a.  Make sure the link line in your Makefile passes the

library path with the -L option.

 

For example:

 

       gcc -o foo foo.o bar.o baz.o -ltermcap -L/usr/lib

 

The -L option tells gcc to look in the /usr/lib directory for .a files.

This of course assumes that libtermcap.a is in fact in /usr/lib.

 

HTH,

Jason

-- 

Jason Day                                       jasonday at

http://jasonday.home.att.net                    worldnet dot att dot net

 

"Of course I'm paranoid, everyone is trying to kill me."

    -- Weyoun-6, Star Trek: Deep Space 9

_______________________________________________

Ale mailing list

Ale at ale.org

http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale 
 
 --Appended by Panasonic Mobile Communications
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 protected by law. The information is solely intended
 for the named addressee (or a person responsible for
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 intended recipient of this message, you are not
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From preston.boyington at mindspring.com  Wed Jan 26 11:21:14 2005
From: preston.boyington at mindspring.com (Preston Boyington)
Date: Wed Jan 26 11:21:14 2005
Subject: [ale] Pyhon syntax
In-Reply-To: <54612.24.98.129.46.1106752999.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org>
References: <54612.24.98.129.46.1106752999.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org>
Message-ID: <41F7C226.5000400@mindspring.com>

fletch at phydeaux.org wrote:
> Python -- Pascal for the new millennium :)
> 
> /me goes back to reading the new edition of _Programming Ruby_ . . .
> 
> And as a disclaimer, yes you should try Python (at least enough until
> you get the bad taste in your mouth :).  And Perl, of course.  And give
> Ruby a look (or at least glance at the "Poignant Guide" for the star
> monkeys; http://poignantguide.net/ruby/).  If you can pick up one of
> {Perl,Ruby,Python} and a smattering of C you'll be able to handle most
> anything.
> 

Thanks for the link.  I have been interested in Ruby for a while, but 
haven't had time to devote to studying it (too much already on my plate).


From scherrey at proteus-tech.com  Wed Jan 26 11:32:11 2005
From: scherrey at proteus-tech.com (Benjamin Scherrey)
Date: Wed Jan 26 11:32:11 2005
Subject: [ale] Pyhon syntax
In-Reply-To: <54612.24.98.129.46.1106752999.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org>
References: <54612.24.98.129.46.1106752999.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org>
Message-ID: <41F7C4EC.2040401@proteus-tech.com>

Comments intermixed...

fletch at phydeaux.org wrote:

>>>>>>"Benjamin" == Benjamin Scherrey <scherrey at proteus-tech.com> writes:
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>
>    Benjamin> Absolutely - I think python should be the primary
>    Benjamin> introductory language for high level programming and it
>    Benjamin> would serve as an excellent choice for most programming
>    Benjamin> projects a developer is likely to encounter in his
>    Benjamin> carreer. I honestly can't think of a better language to
>    Benjamin> introduce a new programmer to that will actually be
>    Benjamin> useful later on in 'real life'.
>
>Python -- Pascal for the new millennium :)
>  
>
Yes except no one ever wrote any significant pascal application without 
breaking some of the 'Wirthian' rules. That's where python stands out in 
that it is as expressive as it is simple. Usually those two attributes 
are contrary to each other.

>/me goes back to reading the new edition of _Programming Ruby_ . . .
>  
>
Ruby is a cool language as well. Not quite as simple to comprehend as 
python. I've only avoided doing serious work in it because I haven't 
seen where it significantly improves upon python (a little cleaner 
perhaps in its functional paradigm model and the parameterized types are 
interesting) and it doesn't have near the module support that python has 
(probably 2nd only to perl and rapidly catching up). Some of its symbol 
choices seem to have been made for the sole purpose of being different 
and are counter-intuitive to developers experienced in other languages. 
Perhaps this is something that is overcome as quickly as the oddness of 
using indentation for flow control in python (about two weeks for me 
before it was completely natural). This 'ruby on rails' thing looks 
quite interesting though and may cause me to re-evaluate my thinking if 
a python equivalent doesn't show up in the near term. I'm curious to 
hear what you think ruby's special qualities are since you've likely got 
more experience with it than I.

    best regards,

       Ben Scherrey


From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Wed Jan 26 11:33:16 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Wed Jan 26 11:33:16 2005
Subject: [ale] Pyhon syntax
In-Reply-To: <54612.24.98.129.46.1106752999.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org>
References: <54612.24.98.129.46.1106752999.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org>
Message-ID: <1106756890.23708.80.camel@linux.linxdev.com>

I'm finding that I can accomplish almost any task in Perl that I want. 
Only problem is that it is not fully OOP.  Other than OOP what can you
do in say Ruby or Python that you can not do in Perl?

On Wed, 2005-01-26 at 10:23, fletch at phydeaux.org wrote:
> >>>>> "Benjamin" == Benjamin Scherrey <scherrey at proteus-tech.com> writes:
> 
>     Benjamin> Absolutely - I think python should be the primary
>     Benjamin> introductory language for high level programming and it
>     Benjamin> would serve as an excellent choice for most programming
>     Benjamin> projects a developer is likely to encounter in his
>     Benjamin> carreer. I honestly can't think of a better language to
>     Benjamin> introduce a new programmer to that will actually be
>     Benjamin> useful later on in 'real life'.
> 
> Python -- Pascal for the new millennium :)
> 
> /me goes back to reading the new edition of _Programming Ruby_ . . .
> 
> And as a disclaimer, yes you should try Python (at least enough until
> you get the bad taste in your mouth :).  And Perl, of course.  And give
> Ruby a look (or at least glance at the "Poignant Guide" for the star
> monkeys; http://poignantguide.net/ruby/).  If you can pick up one of
> {Perl,Ruby,Python} and a smattering of C you'll be able to handle most
> anything.
> 
> 


From audilover at speedfactory.net  Wed Jan 26 11:40:53 2005
From: audilover at speedfactory.net (Raylynn Knight)
Date: Wed Jan 26 11:40:53 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <41F55412.2070908@mindspring.com>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>
	<200501231317.35680.drifter@oppositelock.org>
	<1106506972.25997.14.camel@blue>
	<200501231559.29737.drifter@oppositelock.org>
	<1106515068.2548.16.camel@blue>
	<1106518900.18682.3.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
	<1106520314.2545.17.camel@blue>	<20050124190246.GH7913@worldnet.att.net>
	<1106594000.2512.14.camel@blue>  <41F55412.2070908@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <1106757357.8199.42.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>

On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 14:01 -0600, Preston Boyington wrote:
> Jim Popovitch wrote:
>   >>Just like it is currently illegal to watch a DVD on a linux laptop.
> > 
> > 
> > Show me the law.
> > 
> 
> I think he is talking about the DMCA.  Especially DeCSS and probably 
> UNIVERSAL CITY v REIMERDES:
> 
> http://laws.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/printer_friendly.pl?page=2nd/009185.html
> 
> Basically this and other such documents (check the EFF site under 
> "cases") states that it is illegal to play a DVD on any device that is 
> "not approved".  This includes computers without "proper" DRM enabled 
> software.
> 
> Currently the only way to play an ordinary (encrypted) DVD that you 
> would rent from you neighborhood video store on Linux is by using DeCSS.
> 
> This violates the DMCA.
> http://www.gseis.ucla.edu/iclp/dmca1.htm
> http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c105:H.R.2281.ENR:
> _______________________________________________

I believe this is no longer the case.  I seem to recall that the latest
TurboLinux distribution contains a properly licensed DVD player
application.




From jpheale at LearnLink.Emory.Edu  Wed Jan 26 11:54:56 2005
From: jpheale at LearnLink.Emory.Edu (John P. Healey)
Date: Wed Jan 26 11:54:56 2005
Subject: [ale] Pyhon syntax
In-Reply-To: <1106756890.23708.80.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
References: <54612.24.98.129.46.1106752999.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org>
	<1106756890.23708.80.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
Message-ID: <fc.00249f0f2378181a3b9aca0051c22f51.2378182d@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>

cfowler at outpostsentinel.com writes:
>Other than OOP what can you
>do in say Ruby or Python that you can not do in Perl?

read it.

5265762e204a6f686e6e79204865616c6579


From stevejunk at iintiip.com  Wed Jan 26 12:14:11 2005
From: stevejunk at iintiip.com (Steve Tynor)
Date: Wed Jan 26 12:14:11 2005
Subject: [ale] Pyhon syntax
In-Reply-To: <1106756890.23708.80.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
References: <54612.24.98.129.46.1106752999.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org>
	<1106756890.23708.80.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
Message-ID: <16887.52925.963817.537469@gromit.iintiip.com>

Christopher Fowler wrote:

| I'm finding that I can accomplish almost any task in Perl that I want. 
| Only problem is that it is not fully OOP.  Other than OOP what can you
| do in say Ruby or Python that you can not do in Perl?

For me, perl is practially a write-only language. Powerful as h*ll, but
too many ways to do the same thing and very cryptic to read.  I find
both Python and Ruby a _whole_ lot easier to maintain.  

Steve


From scherrey at proteus-tech.com  Wed Jan 26 12:17:22 2005
From: scherrey at proteus-tech.com (Benjamin Scherrey)
Date: Wed Jan 26 12:17:22 2005
Subject: [ale] Py[h]hon syntax (sic)
In-Reply-To: <1106756890.23708.80.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
References: <54612.24.98.129.46.1106752999.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org>
	<1106756890.23708.80.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
Message-ID: <41F7CF8F.6040200@proteus-tech.com>

uh... read it again six months after you wrote it and understand what 
the heck it does? :)

    Perl really does excel as a scripting language for processing files 
of text, especially using regular expressions. That's its original 
purpose and, sticking to that scope, I couldn't argue conclusively for 
another language over it. However, python and ruby, while perhaps 
introduced as scripting languages, are really full fledged and elegant 
high level application development languages that are purposely written 
to develop complex and powerful applications beyond scripts and admin 
tasks. Perl has a gazzillion majic symbols that one must remember to do 
anything complex with and there are more (correct!) ways to approach a 
given task than there are perl programmers so consistency of code 
amongst a group of programmers (even with the group size==1!) is almost 
never found. Even in respect to its regular expression abilities, the 
new version of python is as expressive and as efficient so, in the area 
where perl once stood above all others, it has not maintained its dominance.

    Without trying to engage in a language war I think the question you 
pose is not the right one. Given enough mastery of any given programming 
language I could make the same assertion of being capable of 
accomplishing almost any task. Does that mean all languages are equally 
functional or expressive? Certainly not. It really should be which 
language is the right tool for a particular job. Perl was designed for a 
particular job and does it well. Outside of that scope, however, perl 
shows its shortcomings pretty rapidly. Just because something *can* be 
done using a given language doesn't mean its a good idea.

    For me, C++ and python cover the full breath of any programming 
project I've ever encountered or conceived of. Yet, to this day, each 
time I approach a new programming task I always try to identify what 
languages are best suited for that task if only to identify what idioms 
or patterns might best be used to attack the problem at hand. Each 
language has its own particular idioms that drive its best use and can 
teach us things about problem solving even when we may not end up using 
that particular language in the final solution. That is why one should 
learn as many languages as one can - it makes you more expressive.

    -- Ben Scherrey

Christopher Fowler wrote:

>I'm finding that I can accomplish almost any task in Perl that I want. 
>Only problem is that it is not fully OOP.  Other than OOP what can you
>do in say Ruby or Python that you can not do in Perl?
>
>  
>


From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Wed Jan 26 12:24:12 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Wed Jan 26 12:24:12 2005
Subject: [ale] Py[h]hon syntax (sic)
In-Reply-To: <41F7CF8F.6040200@proteus-tech.com>
References: <54612.24.98.129.46.1106752999.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org>
	<1106756890.23708.80.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
	<41F7CF8F.6040200@proteus-tech.com>
Message-ID: <1106759939.23708.87.camel@linux.linxdev.com>

Great points.

Can someone tell me what toolkit RedHat used for the python based
installation program?   Is it avaialable for perl?  I need to do some
configuration stuff for our servers that can be ran on the serial
console port.  


On Wed, 2005-01-26 at 12:12, Benjamin Scherrey wrote:
> uh... read it again six months after you wrote it and understand what 
> the heck it does? :)
> 
>     Perl really does excel as a scripting language for processing files 
> of text, especially using regular expressions. That's its original 
> purpose and, sticking to that scope, I couldn't argue conclusively for 
> another language over it. However, python and ruby, while perhaps 
> introduced as scripting languages, are really full fledged and elegant 
> high level application development languages that are purposely written 
> to develop complex and powerful applications beyond scripts and admin 
> tasks. Perl has a gazzillion majic symbols that one must remember to do 
> anything complex with and there are more (correct!) ways to approach a 
> given task than there are perl programmers so consistency of code 
> amongst a group of programmers (even with the group size==1!) is almost 
> never found. Even in respect to its regular expression abilities, the 
> new version of python is as expressive and as efficient so, in the area 
> where perl once stood above all others, it has not maintained its dominance.
> 
>     Without trying to engage in a language war I think the question you 
> pose is not the right one. Given enough mastery of any given programming 
> language I could make the same assertion of being capable of 
> accomplishing almost any task. Does that mean all languages are equally 
> functional or expressive? Certainly not. It really should be which 
> language is the right tool for a particular job. Perl was designed for a 
> particular job and does it well. Outside of that scope, however, perl 
> shows its shortcomings pretty rapidly. Just because something *can* be 
> done using a given language doesn't mean its a good idea.
> 
>     For me, C++ and python cover the full breath of any programming 
> project I've ever encountered or conceived of. Yet, to this day, each 
> time I approach a new programming task I always try to identify what 
> languages are best suited for that task if only to identify what idioms 
> or patterns might best be used to attack the problem at hand. Each 
> language has its own particular idioms that drive its best use and can 
> teach us things about problem solving even when we may not end up using 
> that particular language in the final solution. That is why one should 
> learn as many languages as one can - it makes you more expressive.
> 
>     -- Ben Scherrey
> 
> Christopher Fowler wrote:
> 
> >I'm finding that I can accomplish almost any task in Perl that I want. 
> >Only problem is that it is not fully OOP.  Other than OOP what can you
> >do in say Ruby or Python that you can not do in Perl?
> >
> >  
> >


From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Wed Jan 26 12:25:32 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Wed Jan 26 12:25:32 2005
Subject: [ale] Pyhon syntax
In-Reply-To: <16887.52925.963817.537469@gromit.iintiip.com>
References: <54612.24.98.129.46.1106752999.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org>
	<1106756890.23708.80.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
	<16887.52925.963817.537469@gromit.iintiip.com>
Message-ID: <1106759993.23708.89.camel@linux.linxdev.com>

On Wed, 2005-01-26 at 12:09, Steve Tynor wrote:
> Christopher Fowler wrote:
> 
> | I'm finding that I can accomplish almost any task in Perl that I want. 
> | Only problem is that it is not fully OOP.  Other than OOP what can you
> | do in say Ruby or Python that you can not do in Perl?
> 
> For me, perl is practially a write-only language. Powerful as h*ll, but
> too many ways to do the same thing and very cryptic to read.  I find
> both Python and Ruby a _whole_ lot easier to maintain.  

Yep one problem I have.  I have found myself rewriting code because the
complexity was slowing me down when fixing bugs.  The code would get
complex and unreadable.

> 
> Steve
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From preston.boyington at mindspring.com  Wed Jan 26 12:26:26 2005
From: preston.boyington at mindspring.com (Preston Boyington)
Date: Wed Jan 26 12:26:26 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <1106757357.8199.42.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>	<200501231317.35680.drifter@oppositelock.org>	<1106506972.25997.14.camel@blue>	<200501231559.29737.drifter@oppositelock.org>	<1106515068.2548.16.camel@blue>	<1106518900.18682.3.camel@linux.linxdev.com>	<1106520314.2545.17.camel@blue>	<20050124190246.GH7913@worldnet.att.net>	<1106594000.2512.14.camel@blue>
	<41F55412.2070908@mindspring.com>
	<1106757357.8199.42.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
Message-ID: <41F7D14B.5010104@mindspring.com>

Raylynn Knight wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 14:01 -0600, Preston Boyington wrote:
>>
>>Basically this and other such documents (check the EFF site under 
>>"cases") states that it is illegal to play a DVD on any device that is 
>>"not approved".  This includes computers without "proper" DRM enabled 
>>software.
>>
>>Currently the only way to play an ordinary (encrypted) DVD that you 
>>would rent from you neighborhood video store on Linux is by using DeCSS.
> 
> I believe this is no longer the case.  I seem to recall that the latest
> TurboLinux distribution contains a properly licensed DVD player
> application.
> 
TurboLinux bundles PowerDVD.
(snipped from http://www.turbolinux.com/news/040722.html)

"PowerDVD also includes a Content Scrambling System (CSS) decoder that 
supports copyright protection and circumvents data piracy. CyberLink 
actively sought and received approval from the DVD Copy Control 
Association (DVD CCA) to legally include the decryption algorithms for 
Linux users."

It is not a free program and it is not open source.  If you want to 
watch an encrypted DVD _legally_ then you must buy a DRM enabled program 
(such as PowerDVD) or use another operating system.

according to Linux Business Week:
(http://www.linuxbusinessweek.com/story/44649.htm?DE=1)

"Tokyo-based Turbolinux, which is in the throes of changing owners and 
going more retail, says it's got what it calls a new desktop Linux 
operating system designed for home users that includes a media player 
capable of streaming pure Windows Media-format audio and video.

Umm, that's Windows Media format as in Microsoft, the Evil Empire. As in 
licensed. As in negotiating a deal with them. As in bowing to 
Microsoft's superior position and reinforcing it.

Ironically, the Windows Media Player is the thing the European 
regulators have ordered Microsoft to strip out of Windows."

Interesting reads.

Preston


From scherrey at proteus-tech.com  Wed Jan 26 12:30:00 2005
From: scherrey at proteus-tech.com (Benjamin Scherrey)
Date: Wed Jan 26 12:30:00 2005
Subject: [ale] Py[h]hon syntax (sic)
In-Reply-To: <1106759939.23708.87.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
References: <54612.24.98.129.46.1106752999.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org>	
	<1106756890.23708.80.camel@linux.linxdev.com>	
	<41F7CF8F.6040200@proteus-tech.com>
	<1106759939.23708.87.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
Message-ID: <41F7D284.9020202@proteus-tech.com>

    I can't say for certain but I imagine that the UI is in Tkinter 
which is part of the standard python distribution and the install 
program doesn't do anything else that I'm aware of that would require 
any 3rd party library. So, in short, I doubt that its anything but 
standard python which means it wouldn't be available for perl except as 
an external program to be spawned from a perl script which I doubt is 
what you had in mind.

    -- Ben Scherrey

Christopher Fowler wrote:

>Great points.
>
>Can someone tell me what toolkit RedHat used for the python based
>installation program?   Is it avaialable for perl?  I need to do some
>configuration stuff for our servers that can be ran on the serial
>console port.  
>
>  
>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>
>
>  
>


From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Wed Jan 26 12:37:40 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Wed Jan 26 12:37:40 2005
Subject: [ale] Py[h]hon syntax (sic)
In-Reply-To: <41F7D284.9020202@proteus-tech.com>
References: <54612.24.98.129.46.1106752999.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org>
	<1106756890.23708.80.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
	<41F7CF8F.6040200@proteus-tech.com>
	<1106759939.23708.87.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
	<41F7D284.9020202@proteus-tech.com>
Message-ID: <1106760786.23708.94.camel@linux.linxdev.com>

I think you're right.  I need to investigate and see how to run it in
tty mode instead of X.  I do all my FC2 installs via the serial
console.  I know on SCO the language was Visual TCL. It could run on
either the tty or in X.


On Wed, 2005-01-26 at 12:25, Benjamin Scherrey wrote:
>     I can't say for certain but I imagine that the UI is in Tkinter 
> which is part of the standard python distribution and the install 
> program doesn't do anything else that I'm aware of that would require 
> any 3rd party library. So, in short, I doubt that its anything but 
> standard python which means it wouldn't be available for perl except as 
> an external program to be spawned from a perl script which I doubt is 
> what you had in mind.
> 
>     -- Ben Scherrey
> 
> Christopher Fowler wrote:
> 
> >Great points.
> >
> >Can someone tell me what toolkit RedHat used for the python based
> >installation program?   Is it avaialable for perl?  I need to do some
> >configuration stuff for our servers that can be ran on the serial
> >console port.  
> >
> >  
> >
> >>>
> >>> 
> >>>
> >>>      
> >>>
> >
> >
> >  
> >


From jloden at toughguy.net  Wed Jan 26 12:47:27 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Wed Jan 26 12:47:27 2005
Subject: [ale] Py[h]hon syntax (sic)
In-Reply-To: <1106759939.23708.87.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
References: <54612.24.98.129.46.1106752999.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org>
	<41F7CF8F.6040200@proteus-tech.com>
	<1106759939.23708.87.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
Message-ID: <200501261241.16031.jloden@toughguy.net>

It's PyGTK , according to the Fedora website. 
http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/anaconda-installer/
There's a Perl gtk toolkit called, appropriately, Perl-GTK

You may wish to find out information about the Mandrake installer. Mandrake 
does everything with Perl instead of Python, one of the main differences 
between the two distros.  All mandrake config stuff is Perl, versus all the 
Python stuff on RH and Fedora. 

Mandrake uses the Perl-GTK kit, modified to use its own special library that 
works under X and console - more info on that here: 
http://builder.com.com/5100-6372-1050914.html

-Jay



On Wednesday 26 January 2005 12:18 pm, Christopher Fowler wrote:
> Can someone tell me what toolkit RedHat used for the python based
> installation program?   Is it avaialable for perl?  I need to do some
> configuration stuff for our servers that can be ran on the serial
> console port.


From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Wed Jan 26 12:52:12 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Wed Jan 26 12:52:12 2005
Subject: [ale] Py[h]hon syntax (sic)
In-Reply-To: <41F7D284.9020202@proteus-tech.com>
References: <54612.24.98.129.46.1106752999.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org>
	<1106756890.23708.80.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
	<41F7CF8F.6040200@proteus-tech.com>
	<1106759939.23708.87.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
	<41F7D284.9020202@proteus-tech.com>
Message-ID: <1106761661.23708.96.camel@linux.linxdev.com>

I looked at the source of redhat-config-network-tui and found out
about snack.
http://www.wanware.com/tsgdocs/snack.html



On Wed, 2005-01-26 at 12:25, Benjamin Scherrey wrote:
>     I can't say for certain but I imagine that the UI is in Tkinter 
> which is part of the standard python distribution and the install 
> program doesn't do anything else that I'm aware of that would require 
> any 3rd party library. So, in short, I doubt that its anything but 
> standard python which means it wouldn't be available for perl except as 
> an external program to be spawned from a perl script which I doubt is 
> what you had in mind.
> 
>     -- Ben Scherrey
> 
> Christopher Fowler wrote:
> 
> >Great points.
> >
> >Can someone tell me what toolkit RedHat used for the python based
> >installation program?   Is it avaialable for perl?  I need to do some
> >configuration stuff for our servers that can be ran on the serial
> >console port.  
> >
> >  
> >
> >>>
> >>> 
> >>>
> >>>      
> >>>
> >
> >
> >  
> >


From jloden at toughguy.net  Wed Jan 26 13:02:03 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Wed Jan 26 13:02:03 2005
Subject: [ale] Py[h]hon syntax (sic)
In-Reply-To: <1106761661.23708.96.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
References: <54612.24.98.129.46.1106752999.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org>
	<41F7D284.9020202@proteus-tech.com>
	<1106761661.23708.96.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
Message-ID: <200501261255.50314.jloden@toughguy.net>

Newt, the underpinnings of snack, is part of the libdrakx toolkit I mentioned 
in my previous mail, that Mandrake uses to create its graphical config tools 
to run under X or console while only needing to program it once. 

-Jay

On Wednesday 26 January 2005 12:47 pm, Christopher Fowler wrote:
> I looked at the source of redhat-config-network-tui and found out
> about snack.
> http://www.wanware.com/tsgdocs/snack.html


From jloden at toughguy.net  Wed Jan 26 13:09:33 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Wed Jan 26 13:09:33 2005
Subject: [ale] debian acpi module errors, framebuffer
In-Reply-To: <41F529F1.6020406@3times25.net>
References: <200501240246.48116.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<200501241151.51355.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<41F529F1.6020406@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <200501261303.20202.jloden@toughguy.net>

Just an update to let everyone know I finally go it working by setting 
"acpi=on" in the grub boot line (go figure, it was the reverse problem, I 
needed to enable it, not disable it) and the framebuffer was simply setting 
"vga=791" to the boot line as well.  

-Jay

On Monday 24 January 2005 12:01 pm, Geoffrey wrote:
> Jay Loden wrote:
> > Will I need acpi for battery/power management for the laptop though?
>
> Very likely, problem is, support is spotting and some hardware support
> is flakey.
>
> Seems like it's getting better as I move up the 2.6 kernel releases.


From audilover at speedfactory.net  Wed Jan 26 13:12:57 2005
From: audilover at speedfactory.net (Raylynn Knight)
Date: Wed Jan 26 13:12:57 2005
Subject: [ale] comcast static IP?
In-Reply-To: <41F7D14B.5010104@mindspring.com>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>
	<200501231317.35680.drifter@oppositelock.org>
	<1106506972.25997.14.camel@blue>
	<200501231559.29737.drifter@oppositelock.org>
	<1106515068.2548.16.camel@blue>
	<1106518900.18682.3.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
	<1106520314.2545.17.camel@blue>	<20050124190246.GH7913@worldnet.att.net>
	<1106594000.2512.14.camel@blue> <41F55412.2070908@mindspring.com>
	<1106757357.8199.42.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
	<41F7D14B.5010104@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <1106762434.8199.52.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>

On Wed, 2005-01-26 at 11:20 -0600, Preston Boyington wrote:
> Raylynn Knight wrote:
> > On Mon, 2005-01-24 at 14:01 -0600, Preston Boyington wrote:
> >>
> >>Basically this and other such documents (check the EFF site under 
> >>"cases") states that it is illegal to play a DVD on any device that is 
> >>"not approved".  This includes computers without "proper" DRM enabled 
> >>software.
> >>
> >>Currently the only way to play an ordinary (encrypted) DVD that you 
> >>would rent from you neighborhood video store on Linux is by using DeCSS.
> > 
> > I believe this is no longer the case.  I seem to recall that the latest
> > TurboLinux distribution contains a properly licensed DVD player
> > application.
> > 
> TurboLinux bundles PowerDVD.
> (snipped from http://www.turbolinux.com/news/040722.html)
> 
> "PowerDVD also includes a Content Scrambling System (CSS) decoder that 
> supports copyright protection and circumvents data piracy. CyberLink 
> actively sought and received approval from the DVD Copy Control 
> Association (DVD CCA) to legally include the decryption algorithms for 
> Linux users."
> 
> It is not a free program and it is not open source.  If you want to 
> watch an encrypted DVD _legally_ then you must buy a DRM enabled program 
> (such as PowerDVD) or use another operating system.
> 


So my recollection was correct.  There is a legal way to watch a DVD on
Linux.

> according to Linux Business Week:
> (http://www.linuxbusinessweek.com/story/44649.htm?DE=1)
> 
> "Tokyo-based Turbolinux, which is in the throes of changing owners and 
> going more retail, says it's got what it calls a new desktop Linux 
> operating system designed for home users that includes a media player 
> capable of streaming pure Windows Media-format audio and video.
> 
> Umm, that's Windows Media format as in Microsoft, the Evil Empire. As in 
> licensed. As in negotiating a deal with them. As in bowing to 
> Microsoft's superior position and reinforcing it.
> 
Not necessarily.  The Windows Media Format does not contain any patents
as far as I'm aware.  So it would be possible (albeit difficult) to
decode it without a license.

> Ironically, the Windows Media Player is the thing the European 
> regulators have ordered Microsoft to strip out of Windows."
> 
> Interesting reads.
> 
> Preston
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 


From jloden at toughguy.net  Wed Jan 26 13:15:41 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Wed Jan 26 13:15:41 2005
Subject: [ale] Partimage restore and grub
Message-ID: <200501261309.30708.jloden@toughguy.net>

A few people on the list indicated that they use partimage, maybe they'll have 
seen someting like this...I used partimage to back up my root partition on my 
old Mepis install, then installed Debian on my laptop.  I restored the mepis 
root drive and stuck it on the new laptop drive, so I have:

/dev/hda1 - Windows 2003
/dev/hda2 - Debian Sarge
/dev/hda4 - Mepis root drive
/dev/hda7 - /home drive

When I try to use grub to boot Mepis, it tells me "grub error 17 Cannot mount 
selected partition" and dies.  I can mount the drive just fine under Debian, 
however, and fsck found no problems with the drive either. I can post my 
menu.1st here if needed.  Basically, I just want to be able to boot my old 
Mepis install from Grub and use the shared /home for it and Debian, at least 
until I am comfortably transferred totally to Debian.

-Jay


From rdavis at panasonicatlanta.com  Wed Jan 26 13:17:30 2005
From: rdavis at panasonicatlanta.com (Davis, Ringo Lester)
Date: Wed Jan 26 13:17:30 2005
Subject: [ale] help with lib
Message-ID: <28C67C8F8DA9124888FA2620399BCA6A01B7B805@atlexc01.panasonicatlanta.com>

I finally got it to work with the following:

gcc sailor.c navigate.o -o sailor   -L/usr/lib/termcap -lncurses
-ltermcap -lm

A combination of using ncurses instead of curses and the
-L/usr/lib/termcap.

 

But this does not explain why it could not find the termcap lib. Should
there be a path statement in my .bashrc file to tell gcc where the libs
are located?

Ringo

 

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
Davis, Ringo (Lester)
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 11:11 AM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: RE: [ale] help with lib

 

Weirder and weirder.

I tried this

gcc sailor.c navigate.o -o sailor -L/usr/lib/curses  -L/usr/lib/termcap
-lcurses -ltermcap -lm

 

because those are the directories the files are in.

It then compiles without errors.

I run the program by going up a directory and typing ./demo.

Demo is the following file

src/sailor < test_worlds/test1

 

so it runs sailor.exe and takes test1 as its parameter.

But here is the error I get.

./demo: line 1: 8155 Segmentation Fault src/sailor < test_worlds/test1.

 

I know the program runs on Cygwin, Also if I run the example program
without recompiling it works, but compiling makes it give the above
error, so something is still wrong.

Any ideas?

Thanks

Ringo

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
Jason Day
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 10:55 AM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] help with lib

 

On Wed, Jan 26, 2005 at 09:17:57AM -0500, ringo davis wrote:

> That fixes the curses err, now it complains about libtermcap (which is
also 

> installed).

[snip]

 

The ldconfig program maintains a cache of shared object files, aka DLLs.

It looks like your program is trying to link to a static library file,

however, not a shared library.  So, even though ldconfig knows how to

find libtermcap.so, that doesn't help because your program wants to link

with libtermcap.a.  Make sure the link line in your Makefile passes the

library path with the -L option.

 

For example:

 

       gcc -o foo foo.o bar.o baz.o -ltermcap -L/usr/lib

 

The -L option tells gcc to look in the /usr/lib directory for .a files.

This of course assumes that libtermcap.a is in fact in /usr/lib.

 

HTH,

Jason

-- 

Jason Day                                       jasonday at

http://jasonday.home.att.net                    worldnet dot att dot net

 

"Of course I'm paranoid, everyone is trying to kill me."

    -- Weyoun-6, Star Trek: Deep Space 9

_______________________________________________

Ale mailing list

Ale at ale.org

http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

 

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From mhirsch at nubridges.com  Wed Jan 26 14:27:58 2005
From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael Hirsch)
Date: Wed Jan 26 14:27:58 2005
Subject: [ale] help with lib
Message-ID: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CC05@germanium.numethods.com>

The -L/usr/lib/termcap implies that there is a library in that
directory.  What does ls /usr/lib/libtermcap look like?  There must be
something there.

 

Michael

 

  _____  

From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
Davis, Ringo (Lester)
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 1:13 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: RE: [ale] help with lib

 

I finally got it to work with the following:

gcc sailor.c navigate.o -o sailor   -L/usr/lib/termcap -lncurses
-ltermcap -lm

A combination of using ncurses instead of curses and the
-L/usr/lib/termcap.

 

But this does not explain why it could not find the termcap lib. Should
there be a path statement in my .bashrc file to tell gcc where the libs
are located?

Ringo

 

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From rdavis at panasonicatlanta.com  Wed Jan 26 14:31:12 2005
From: rdavis at panasonicatlanta.com (Davis, Ringo Lester)
Date: Wed Jan 26 14:31:12 2005
Subject: [ale] help with lib
Message-ID: <28C67C8F8DA9124888FA2620399BCA6A01B7B809@atlexc01.panasonicatlanta.com>

Yes that is where the libtermcap.a and libtermcap.so files are. I just
don't understand why the compiler couldn't find them.

Ringo

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
Michael Hirsch
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 2:23 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: RE: [ale] help with lib

 

The -L/usr/lib/termcap implies that there is a library in that
directory.  What does ls /usr/lib/libtermcap look like?  There must be
something there.

 

Michael

 

________________________________

From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
Davis, Ringo (Lester)
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 1:13 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: RE: [ale] help with lib

 

I finally got it to work with the following:

gcc sailor.c navigate.o -o sailor   -L/usr/lib/termcap -lncurses
-ltermcap -lm

A combination of using ncurses instead of curses and the
-L/usr/lib/termcap.

 

But this does not explain why it could not find the termcap lib. Should
there be a path statement in my .bashrc file to tell gcc where the libs
are located?

Ringo 
 
 --Appended by Panasonic Mobile Communications
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 and any attachments may contain information that is
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 protected by law. The information is solely intended
 for the named addressee (or a person responsible for
 delivering it to the addressee). If you are not the
 intended recipient of this message, you are not
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From mhirsch at nubridges.com  Wed Jan 26 14:55:14 2005
From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael Hirsch)
Date: Wed Jan 26 14:55:14 2005
Subject: [ale] help with lib
Message-ID: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CC25@germanium.numethods.com>

They are not in the default search path for the linker.  IMHO, this is a
bug in the distribution, but mostly it is a bug in the makefile, or
configure script.

 

Michael

 

  _____  

From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
Davis, Ringo (Lester)
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 2:26 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: RE: [ale] help with lib

 

Yes that is where the libtermcap.a and libtermcap.so files are. I just
don't understand why the compiler couldn't find them.

Ringo

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
Michael Hirsch
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 2:23 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: RE: [ale] help with lib

 

The -L/usr/lib/termcap implies that there is a library in that
directory.  What does ls /usr/lib/libtermcap look like?  There must be
something there.

 

Michael

 

  _____  

From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
Davis, Ringo (Lester)
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 1:13 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: RE: [ale] help with lib

 

I finally got it to work with the following:

gcc sailor.c navigate.o -o sailor   -L/usr/lib/termcap -lncurses
-ltermcap -lm

A combination of using ncurses instead of curses and the
-L/usr/lib/termcap.

 

But this does not explain why it could not find the termcap lib. Should
there be a path statement in my .bashrc file to tell gcc where the libs
are located?

Ringo

 

 

 --Appended by Panasonic Mobile Communications
 Development Corporation of U.S.A.-----This e-mail
 and any attachments may contain information that is
 confidential, proprietary, privileged or otherwise
 protected by law. The information is solely intended
 for the named addressee (or a person responsible for
 delivering it to the addressee). If you are not the
 intended recipient of this message, you are not
 authorized to read, print, retain, copy or
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 the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete
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From esoteric at 3times25.net  Wed Jan 26 15:07:44 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Wed Jan 26 15:07:44 2005
Subject: [ale] help with lib
In-Reply-To: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CC25@germanium.numethods.com>
References: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CC25@germanium.numethods.com>
Message-ID: <41F7F77C.7050206@3times25.net>

Michael Hirsch wrote:
> They are not in the default search path for the linker.  IMHO, this is a
> bug in the distribution, but mostly it is a bug in the makefile, or
> configure script.

Is that directory listed in /etc/ld.so.conf ?

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From rdavis at panasonicatlanta.com  Wed Jan 26 15:22:35 2005
From: rdavis at panasonicatlanta.com (Davis, Ringo Lester)
Date: Wed Jan 26 15:22:35 2005
Subject: [ale] help with lib
Message-ID: <28C67C8F8DA9124888FA2620399BCA6A01B7B80C@atlexc01.panasonicatlanta.com>

Nope, I'll add it. Should this have been automatically by ldconfig, or
something I should be doing manually?
Ringo

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
Geoffrey
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 3:03 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] help with lib

Michael Hirsch wrote:
> They are not in the default search path for the linker.  IMHO, this is
a
> bug in the distribution, but mostly it is a bug in the makefile, or
> configure script.

Is that directory listed in /etc/ld.so.conf ?

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale 
 
 --Appended by Panasonic Mobile Communications
 Development Corporation of U.S.A.-----This e-mail
 and any attachments may contain information that is
 confidential, proprietary, privileged or otherwise
 protected by law. The information is solely intended
 for the named addressee (or a person responsible for
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 intended recipient of this message, you are not
 authorized to read, print, retain, copy or
 disseminate this message or any part of it. If you
 have received this e-mail in error, please notify
 the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete
 it from your computer.


From pras at cycloeastern.com  Wed Jan 26 16:04:19 2005
From: pras at cycloeastern.com (pras at cycloeastern.com)
Date: Wed Jan 26 16:04:19 2005
Subject: [ale] help with lib
In-Reply-To: <28C67C8F8DA9124888FA2620399BCA6A01B7B80C@atlexc01.panasonicatlanta.com>
References: <28C67C8F8DA9124888FA2620399BCA6A01B7B80C@atlexc01.panasonicatlanta.com>
Message-ID: <20050126213722.GA31482@cycloeastern.com>

Nope. Most Linux installs ( acutally post rpm installs ) update the ld.so.conf. If its not there please put it there. After that 
run ldconfig -v to verify, thats it been picked up and has been updated to ld.so.cache.

On Wed, Jan 26, 2005 at 03:17:50PM -0500, Davis, Ringo (Lester) wrote:
> Nope, I'll add it. Should this have been automatically by ldconfig, or
> something I should be doing manually?
> Ringo
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
> Geoffrey
> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 3:03 PM
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [ale] help with lib
> 
> Michael Hirsch wrote:
> > They are not in the default search path for the linker.  IMHO, this is
> a
> > bug in the distribution, but mostly it is a bug in the makefile, or
> > configure script.
> 
> Is that directory listed in /etc/ld.so.conf ?
> 
> -- 
> Until later, Geoffrey
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale 
>  
>  --Appended by Panasonic Mobile Communications
>  Development Corporation of U.S.A.-----This e-mail
>  and any attachments may contain information that is
>  confidential, proprietary, privileged or otherwise
>  protected by law. The information is solely intended
>  for the named addressee (or a person responsible for
>  delivering it to the addressee). If you are not the
>  intended recipient of this message, you are not
>  authorized to read, print, retain, copy or
>  disseminate this message or any part of it. If you
>  have received this e-mail in error, please notify
>  the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete
>  it from your computer.
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From mpwright at speedfactory.net  Wed Jan 26 16:25:08 2005
From: mpwright at speedfactory.net (Mark Wright)
Date: Wed Jan 26 16:25:08 2005
Subject: [ale] SUSE 9.2 download?
Message-ID: <02AFD4D5-6FE0-11D9-8584-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>

I think I remember someone posting a link to SUSE 9.2 pro not long ago. 
  I am only finding EVAL versions on Novell's site.  Is there a full 
version available for download?

Thanks,

Mark


From hne at hopnet.net  Wed Jan 26 16:27:26 2005
From: hne at hopnet.net (Keith Hopkins)
Date: Wed Jan 26 16:27:26 2005
Subject: [ale] SUSE 9.2 download?
In-Reply-To: <02AFD4D5-6FE0-11D9-8584-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>
References: <02AFD4D5-6FE0-11D9-8584-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <41F80A2E.9060708@hopnet.net>

Mark Wright wrote:
> I think I remember someone posting a link to SUSE 9.2 pro not long ago. 
>  I am only finding EVAL versions on Novell's site.  Is there a full 
> version available for download?
> 

ftp://ftp.ale.org/pub/suse/i386/9.2/iso/
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From jsheets at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 26 16:30:39 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Wed Jan 26 16:30:39 2005
Subject: [ale] Fedora 2 modem recommendation
In-Reply-To: <41F7BA00.70404@cybertechcafe.net>
Message-ID: <mailman.68.1106775039.18563.ale@ale.org>

Right.  I meant to mention the external part.  It was early.

:-D

--j 

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Nathan
J. Underwood
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 10:41 AM
To: preston.boyington at mindspring.com; Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] Fedora 2 modem recommendation

I concur, use an external if at all possible.
--
registered linux user # 73046

Nathan J. Underwood
Cyber Tech Cafe' <><
http://www.cybertechcafe.net

Preston Boyington wrote:
> Steve Durdin wrote:
> 
>> Can anyone recommend a 56kb PCI modem for use on Fedora that does not 
>> become useless when the kernel is updated to a newer version?
> 
> 
> I cannot recommend a PCI modem.  I stopped using a PCI modem years ago 
> and now will only use a decent external modem.
> 
> Here is a list of the problems I DON'T have:
> 1) having to reboot my computer because of a modem "lock" (just turn 
> modem off and back on, not whole computer)
> 2) finding some module/string/whatever to make my modem work.  i plug 
> the thing in and start wvdial/kppp/gnome-dialer/pon
> 3) wondering if the thing is working (are the lights blinking?)
> 4) compatability (it works with every operating system)
> 5) upgradeability (add another at any time, no need to open the case)
> 
> I use a Zoom brand modem.  I bought it new off eBay for $45 and after 
> a week purchased the other two (new) for roughly the same price.
> 
> I still have one unopened in my closet.  The other I loaned to my 
> wife's aunt because she had bought 4 internal modems over a year.  She 
> loves this external modem and has stated that I won't be getting it 
> back anytime soon (it's ok she's old and I can wait).  She no longer 
> has problems connecting to her local internet service and doesn't get 
> dropped like before.  She is 67 dual-booting ME and Xandros PE.  She 
> uses ME for some greeting card program for the garden club (and the 
> impulse buy at Wal-Mart), but Xandros for everything else.  When she 
> gets back from her camping/hiking next week I am going to upgrade her 
> to SuSE 9.2 or Debian Sarge so her DVD burner will work to full capacity.
> 
> Preston
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

--
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From jasonday at worldnet.att.net  Wed Jan 26 17:25:35 2005
From: jasonday at worldnet.att.net (Jason Day)
Date: Wed Jan 26 17:25:35 2005
Subject: [ale] help with lib
In-Reply-To: <28C67C8F8DA9124888FA2620399BCA6A01B7B80C@atlexc01.panasonicatlanta.com>
References: <28C67C8F8DA9124888FA2620399BCA6A01B7B80C@atlexc01.panasonicatlanta.com>
Message-ID: <20050126222059.GO7913@worldnet.att.net>

On Wed, Jan 26, 2005 at 03:17:50PM -0500, Davis, Ringo (Lester) wrote:
> Nope, I'll add it. Should this have been automatically by ldconfig, or
> something I should be doing manually?

The ldconfig command rebuilds the cache, using the contents of
/etc/ld.so.conf .  Any time you add another entry to /etc/ld.so.conf,
you need to run ldconfig (actually, /sbin/ldconfig, as root) to rebuild
the cache.

Note that the ld cache handles dynamic libraries only (.so files), not
static libraries (.a files), and it is invoked at runtime, whereas
static libraries are linked into the executable at link time.  Having
said that, the linker will attempt to use dynamic libraries first before
looking for a static library.  So, if you add /usr/lib/termcap to your
/etc/ld.so.conf file, then run ldconfig, then your linker (gcc) will
pick the dynamic library.  You can verify this with the ldd command.

I think, and I'm not 100% sure about this, that the linker does not use
the same search path for dynamic libraries as the dynamic loader.  So,
you still need to specify -L/usr/lib/termcap to gcc, even if that
directory is in /etc/ld.so.conf.

It's not really a bug in either the distro or the makefile, it's just
that each used different defaults.  Although, it could be considered a
bug in the program distribution, because if the program were using
autoconf/automake it could have determined on its own where the termcap
and curses libraries were installed.

Jason
-- 
Jason Day                                       jasonday at
http://jasonday.home.att.net                    worldnet dot att dot net
 
"Of course I'm paranoid, everyone is trying to kill me."
    -- Weyoun-6, Star Trek: Deep Space 9


From jbaldwin at antinode.net  Wed Jan 26 18:16:45 2005
From: jbaldwin at antinode.net (James Baldwin)
Date: Wed Jan 26 18:16:45 2005
Subject: Bowing to M$ (was Re: [ale] comcast static IP?)
In-Reply-To: <41F7D14B.5010104@mindspring.com>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>	<200501231317.35680.drifter@oppositelock.org>	<1106506972.25997.14.camel@blue>	<200501231559.29737.drifter@oppositelock.org>	<1106515068.2548.16.camel@blue>	<1106518900.18682.3.camel@linux.linxdev.com>	<1106520314.2545.17.camel@blue>	<20050124190246.GH7913@worldnet.att.net>	<1106594000.2512.14.camel@blue>
	<41F55412.2070908@mindspring.com>
	<1106757357.8199.42.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
	<41F7D14B.5010104@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <7c6a376bad437d8a252b6c8d665f3373@antinode.net>

On 26 Jan 2005, at 12:20, Preston Boyington wrote:

> Umm, that's Windows Media format as in Microsoft, the Evil Empire. As 
> in licensed. As in negotiating a deal with them. As in bowing to 
> Microsoft's superior position and reinforcing it.

Some of us want more usability out of an operating environment than 
open source can currently provide.

Interoperability is key, and not interacting with Microsoft formats is 
a large detriment to usability. Much of this need derives from 
Microsoft's position in the market place and its ability to, rightly or 
wrongly, leverage its market share to achieve greater market 
penetration. Regardless of the one's approval of Microsoft's market 
position, many users require interoperability between applications be 
it Microsoft's Windows Media or document formats or something more 
obscure unrelated to Microsoft.

You may disagree with the ethical merits of how Microsoft achieved its 
position but to characterize interoperability between operating 
environments with "bowing to Microsoft's superior position and 
reinforcing it." is unfair and counterproductive to what many in the 
free software movement are working toward. It is naive to think that 
World Domination (tm) can be achieved without interoperability at some 
level.

On 26 Jan 2005, at 13:00, Raylynn Knight wrote:

> Not necessarily.  The Windows Media Format does not contain any patents
> as far as I'm aware.  So it would be possible (albeit difficult) to
> decode it without a license.

Windows Media requires a license and I would be very, very astounded if 
it is not covered by several patents. Licensing information can be 
found here:

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/licensing/default.aspx

---
James Baldwin
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From esoteric at 3times25.net  Wed Jan 26 18:34:28 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Wed Jan 26 18:34:28 2005
Subject: [ale] help with lib
In-Reply-To: <28C67C8F8DA9124888FA2620399BCA6A01B7B80C@atlexc01.panasonicatlanta.com>
References: <28C67C8F8DA9124888FA2620399BCA6A01B7B80C@atlexc01.panasonicatlanta.com>
Message-ID: <41F827F1.20309@3times25.net>

Davis, Ringo (Lester) wrote:
> Nope, I'll add it. Should this have been automatically by ldconfig, or
> something I should be doing manually?

Actually no, that's where ldconfig looks to find the files you need. 
Typically, it should be updated by the rpm when you install the library.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jknapka at kneuro.net  Wed Jan 26 19:08:21 2005
From: jknapka at kneuro.net (Joe Knapka)
Date: Wed Jan 26 19:08:21 2005
Subject: [ale] This list is flooding with messages
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0501241846250.4241-100000@intel.digichem.net>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0501241846250.4241-100000@intel.digichem.net>
Message-ID: <m3oefbwxqz.fsf@telzey.localdomain>

tfreeman at intel.digichem.net writes:

[snip]

> I wish I could remember the physicist up around New York who did something 
> similar to the supposedly liberal academic establishment ten years ago or 
> so. Managed to get a paper past a journal editor, ?peer review?, which 
> when properly read had zero content, just a monumental pile of buzz words, 
> hot buttons, and devilish syntax. Also made more than a few people upset.

The paper was "Transgressing the boundaries: towards a transformative
hermeneutics of quantum gravity". Alan Sokol was the primary author
(possibly the only one, I don't remember).

-- Joe

-- 
No sig for you today.
--
pub  1024D/BA496D2B 2004-05-14 Joseph A Knapka
     Key fingerprint = 3BA2 FE72 3CBA D4C2 21E4  C9B4 3230 94D7 BA49 6D2B
If you really want to get my attention, send mail to
jknapka .at. kneuro .dot. net.


From fletch at phydeaux.org  Wed Jan 26 19:24:30 2005
From: fletch at phydeaux.org (fletch at phydeaux.org)
Date: Wed Jan 26 19:24:30 2005
Subject: [ale] Why Ruby? [was Pyhon syntax]
Message-ID: <64491.24.98.129.46.1106785175.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org>

I think the main thing I like about Ruby is that it's very close to a
blend of Perl and Smalltalk (both of which 'rock', as the hep kids
say; I'm also liking ObjC on OS X with its Smalltalky flavour).  It's
not a large jump to get from how I normally think of doing something
in Perl to getting something equivalent working with Ruby (and then
tweaking however to get it more idiomatic).  Python never 'clicked'
the way Ruby did very quickly, and then there were the bleh things
that irritated me[0] so I never did much more than get fluent enough
to be able to read code with a manual at hand.


As for module support, 1.8.2 has a whole bunch of handy stuff in the
core.  There's an (SG|X)ML parser, there's a 'perldoc' analogue (rdoc
and ri), there's an HTTP server, there's SOAP and XML-RPC support,
there's a complete unit testing framework, . . . .  Check the stdlib docs:

http://www.ruby-doc.org/stdlib/

As for aftermarket stuff there's no CPAN yes, but rubygems is pretty
interesting and probably will be shipping with 1.8.3 I believe.  There's
also a good number of things available as source (and pointed at from
either raa.ruby-lang.org or rubyforge; but again granted it's not CPAN).


There's open-uri which overloads open() so that it handles URLs as
well as filenames.  This snippet (from http://redhanded.hobix.com/)
uses it to grab the font size for the different categories and shows
their relative popularity on del.icio.us:

require 'open-uri'
t = open("http://del.icio.us/tag/").read
l = %w(c c++ java javascript perl php python ruby)
l.map do |lang|
  [$1.to_f, lang] if t =~
    %r{/#{Regexp::quote lang}"  style="font-size: (\d+\.\d{2})}
end.compact.sort {|a,b|b<=>a}.each do |score, lang|
  puts "#{lang}: #{score}"
end


Rails is what's gotten me to look at Ruby again.  I've been poking at
it since ~0.7.0 and it's really spiffy how quickly it "just works"
(I'd looked at Maypole for Perl but never got it to behave as well as
Rails did straight out of the box).


[0] Actually poking at python2.3 it looks like a couple that I
    remember actually may have gotten fixed (lambda actually makes a
    real closure now, for instance); but indicating block structure by
    indentation is still broken :)

-- 
Fletch                | "If you find my answers frightening,       __`'/|
fletch at phydeaux.org|  Vincent, you should cease askin'          \ o.O'
                      |  scary questions." -- Jules                =(___)=
                      |                                               U


From runman at speedfactory.net  Wed Jan 26 20:04:14 2005
From: runman at speedfactory.net (Greg)
Date: Wed Jan 26 20:04:14 2005
Subject: [ale] Chaintech SKT600 motherboard
Message-ID: <002d01c5040b$c5cdd700$0a00a8c0@atlas>

I recently bought a Chaintech SKT600 motherboard and a AMD Duron 1.6GHz
Socket A Processor to run a low end box and I can't even get it to POST - it
just beeps like crazy.  If I move the FSB jumpers around there is no beeping
but it still won't POST.  I have searched the web and it seems that
Chaintech has little "gotchas" that aren't advertised on their site or other
sites.  I have a vid card in the AGP slot, mouse and keyboard attached
correctly, and re-checked the wiring.  A floppy drive and hard drive are
attached also.

I just wondered if anyone on the list has any experience with this
particular motherboard.  Any tips / hints would be appreciated.

TIA,

Greg


From jloden at toughguy.net  Wed Jan 26 20:20:21 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Wed Jan 26 20:20:21 2005
Subject: [ale] Chaintech SKT600 motherboard
In-Reply-To: <002d01c5040b$c5cdd700$0a00a8c0@atlas>
References: <002d01c5040b$c5cdd700$0a00a8c0@atlas>
Message-ID: <200501262014.10836.jloden@toughguy.net>

This may sound like a stupid question, but is the RAM any good?  Most common 
source of loud beeps and lack of POST test would be bad RAM or no RAM. 

-Jay

On Wednesday 26 January 2005 08:01 pm, Greg wrote:
> I recently bought a Chaintech SKT600 motherboard and a AMD Duron 1.6GHz
> Socket A Processor to run a low end box and I can't even get it to POST -
> it just beeps like crazy.  If I move the FSB jumpers around there is no
> beeping but it still won't POST.  I have searched the web and it seems that
> Chaintech has little "gotchas" that aren't advertised on their site or
> other sites.  I have a vid card in the AGP slot, mouse and keyboard
> attached correctly, and re-checked the wiring.  A floppy drive and hard
> drive are attached also.
>
> I just wondered if anyone on the list has any experience with this
> particular motherboard.  Any tips / hints would be appreciated.
>
> TIA,
>
> Greg
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Wed Jan 26 20:35:36 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Wed Jan 26 20:35:36 2005
Subject: [ale] Chaintech SKT600 motherboard
In-Reply-To: <002d01c5040b$c5cdd700$0a00a8c0@atlas>
References: <002d01c5040b$c5cdd700$0a00a8c0@atlas>
Message-ID: <1106789459.16329.224.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>

On Wed, 2005-01-26 at 20:01 -0500, Greg wrote:
> I recently bought a Chaintech SKT600 motherboard and a AMD Duron 1.6GHz
> Socket A Processor to run a low end box and I can't even get it to POST - it
> just beeps like crazy.  If I move the FSB jumpers around there is no beeping
> but it still won't POST.  I have searched the web and it seems that
> Chaintech has little "gotchas" that aren't advertised on their site or other
> sites.  I have a vid card in the AGP slot, mouse and keyboard attached
> correctly, and re-checked the wiring.  A floppy drive and hard drive are
> attached also.
> 
> I just wondered if anyone on the list has any experience with this
> particular motherboard.  Any tips / hints would be appreciated.

No experience with that particular board but experience with several
other models from Chaintech. My advice: find the receipt and return it.
Keep the cpu and put it in another board by a different maker. The docs
with Chaintech are so bad that they might as well not bother printing
them. Configuration of their boards is a trial and error process. One
model I fought with had jumpers labeled different from the printed docs.
Extensive Google searches found a post where some one had put test
equipment on the board and figured out that both the board print and the
manual were wrong and figured out the correct jumper sequence.

The price difference between a Chaintech and the next lowest board maker
is well worth having docs that are closer to factual.
> 
> TIA,
> 
> Greg
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> !DSPAM:41f83d29228561298115799!
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
-------------- next part --------------
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From runman at speedfactory.net  Wed Jan 26 20:40:23 2005
From: runman at speedfactory.net (Greg)
Date: Wed Jan 26 20:40:23 2005
Subject: [ale] Chaintech SKT600 motherboard
In-Reply-To: <200501262014.10836.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <003301c50410$ce2fbcb0$0a00a8c0@atlas>

Well, it's brand new, fits the mobo's specs, and the beeping stops when I
play around with the jumpers so I am guessing it's ok.  However I will test
it just to make sure.

Greg


-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org]On Behalf Of Jay
Loden
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 8:14 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] Chaintech SKT600 motherboard


This may sound like a stupid question, but is the RAM any good?  Most common
source of loud beeps and lack of POST test would be bad RAM or no RAM.

-Jay

On Wednesday 26 January 2005 08:01 pm, Greg wrote:
> I recently bought a Chaintech SKT600 motherboard and a AMD Duron 1.6GHz
> Socket A Processor to run a low end box and I can't even get it to POST -
> it just beeps like crazy.  If I move the FSB jumpers around there is no
> beeping but it still won't POST.  I have searched the web and it seems
that
> Chaintech has little "gotchas" that aren't advertised on their site or
> other sites.  I have a vid card in the AGP slot, mouse and keyboard
> attached correctly, and re-checked the wiring.  A floppy drive and hard
> drive are attached also.
>
> I just wondered if anyone on the list has any experience with this
> particular motherboard.  Any tips / hints would be appreciated.
>
> TIA,
>
> Greg
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From runman at speedfactory.net  Wed Jan 26 20:42:54 2005
From: runman at speedfactory.net (Greg)
Date: Wed Jan 26 20:42:54 2005
Subject: [ale] Chaintech SKT600 motherboard
In-Reply-To: <1106789459.16329.224.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <003901c50411$29393fa0$0a00a8c0@atlas>

So I gathered from my (extensive) Google search.  However I was belatedly
hoping for the "golden" tip to fix it.  I will give it 24 hrs and then
return the mobo.

Thanks,

Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org]On Behalf Of James
P. Kinney III
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 8:31 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] Chaintech SKT600 motherboard


On Wed, 2005-01-26 at 20:01 -0500, Greg wrote:
> I recently bought a Chaintech SKT600 motherboard and a AMD Duron 1.6GHz
> Socket A Processor to run a low end box and I can't even get it to POST -
it
> just beeps like crazy.  If I move the FSB jumpers around there is no
beeping
> but it still won't POST.  I have searched the web and it seems that
> Chaintech has little "gotchas" that aren't advertised on their site or
other
> sites.  I have a vid card in the AGP slot, mouse and keyboard attached
> correctly, and re-checked the wiring.  A floppy drive and hard drive are
> attached also.
>
> I just wondered if anyone on the list has any experience with this
> particular motherboard.  Any tips / hints would be appreciated.

No experience with that particular board but experience with several
other models from Chaintech. My advice: find the receipt and return it.
Keep the cpu and put it in another board by a different maker. The docs
with Chaintech are so bad that they might as well not bother printing
them. Configuration of their boards is a trial and error process. One
model I fought with had jumpers labeled different from the printed docs.
Extensive Google searches found a post where some one had put test
equipment on the board and figured out that both the board print and the
manual were wrong and figured out the correct jumper sequence.

The price difference between a Chaintech and the next lowest board maker
is well worth having docs that are closer to factual.
>
> TIA,
>
> Greg
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
> !DSPAM:41f83d29228561298115799!
--
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Wed Jan 26 22:02:10 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Wed Jan 26 22:02:10 2005
Subject: [ale] Hiding a window border
Message-ID: <1106794591.4964.32.camel@blue>

Is there a way to hide a window border of a running app by either
executing an external command or passing xwin command line params?

I have a Vonage softphone running under Crossover (Wine).  As you can
see from this pic (http://jimpop.net/stuff/softphone.png) it looks fine,
other than the border.

Tia,

-Jim P.




From jpheale at LearnLink.Emory.Edu  Thu Jan 27 01:22:59 2005
From: jpheale at LearnLink.Emory.Edu (John P. Healey)
Date: Thu Jan 27 01:22:59 2005
Subject: [ale] Why LISP? (was Why Ruby?)
Message-ID: <fc.00249f0f237b8a7400249f0f237b8a74.237ba63b@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>

I think the main thing I like about Lisp is that it's absolutely nothing like
perl, smalltalk, c, python, or java.  Whenever I sit down to try and write
something in lisp the way i would normally write it in {insert language here},
i find that lisp manages to accurately embody my ideas in the jumbled mess of
thought that they truly are.  At that point, I usually throw away whatever i've
written and rewrite a working copy in a tenth of the amount of code, simply by
abstracting it properly with macros.

no language makes me feel like a complete idiot the way lisp does, and this is
probably it's most redeeming value.

Other redeeming values:
-It doesn't overwhelm me with a bunch of meaningless syntactical symbols (this
also speeds up compilation, as it doesn't waste time trying to parse everything
into a tree)
-It has unparalleled lexical scoping abilities
-It will never wane in popularity (as it will probably never be popular)
-There's no profit in writing books about lisp and so the few books about it
are really amazing
-It was one of the first languages to support object-oriented programming, it
does so without a lot of kludgy syntax, and OOP in lisp is almost never useful
as objects are almost always the wrong abstraction

If I'm writing a throwaway script, i'll usually use python.  If I'm trying to
make a web interface to a database, I'll use PHP.  But for any substantial
programming task, I've yet to find any language that can match the power of
lisp.

5265762e204a6f686e6e79204865616c6579


From jimmyc at speedfactory.net  Thu Jan 27 05:53:26 2005
From: jimmyc at speedfactory.net (Jim Philips)
Date: Thu Jan 27 05:53:26 2005
Subject: [ale] Hiding a window border
In-Reply-To: <1106794591.4964.32.camel@blue>
References: <1106794591.4964.32.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <200501270548.59212.jimmyc@speedfactory.net>

On Wednesday 26 January 2005 09:56 pm, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> Is there a way to hide a window border of a running app by either
> executing an external command or passing xwin command line params?
>
> I have a Vonage softphone running under Crossover (Wine).  As you can
> see from this pic (http://jimpop.net/stuff/softphone.png) it looks fine,
> other than the border.
>
> Tia,
>
> -Jim P.

Depends on your windowing environment. In KDE, you right-click on the window 
decoration and select Advanced-->No Border.


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Thu Jan 27 06:45:21 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Thu Jan 27 06:45:21 2005
Subject: [ale] Chaintech SKT600 motherboard
In-Reply-To: <003301c50410$ce2fbcb0$0a00a8c0@atlas>
References: <003301c50410$ce2fbcb0$0a00a8c0@atlas>
Message-ID: <41F8D33C.2050402@3times25.net>

Greg wrote:
> Well, it's brand new, fits the mobo's specs, and the beeping stops when I
> play around with the jumpers so I am guessing it's ok.  However I will test
> it just to make sure.

Greg, you're too used to Microsoft products. :)  You shouldn't have to 
debug a brand new product.  Return it for your hard earned money and 
replace it with another brand.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Thu Jan 27 06:48:06 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Thu Jan 27 06:48:06 2005
Subject: [ale] Hiding a window border
In-Reply-To: <1106794591.4964.32.camel@blue>
References: <1106794591.4964.32.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <41F8D3CF.2040803@3times25.net>

Jim Popovitch wrote:
> Is there a way to hide a window border of a running app by either
> executing an external command or passing xwin command line params?

I  don't think you can do it once the window's open, but there are 
xresources to not put it on there to start with.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Thu Jan 27 07:07:59 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Thu Jan 27 07:07:59 2005
Subject: [ale] Hiding a window border
In-Reply-To: <200501270548.59212.jimmyc@speedfactory.net>
References: <1106794591.4964.32.camel@blue>
	<200501270548.59212.jimmyc@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <41F8D7ED.9030403@3times25.net>

Jim Philips wrote:
> On Wednesday 26 January 2005 09:56 pm, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> 
>>Is there a way to hide a window border of a running app by either
>>executing an external command or passing xwin command line params?
>>
>>I have a Vonage softphone running under Crossover (Wine).  As you can
>>see from this pic (http://jimpop.net/stuff/softphone.png) it looks fine,
>>other than the border.
>>
>>Tia,
>>
>>-Jim P.
> 
> Depends on your windowing environment. In KDE, you right-click on the window 
> decoration and select Advanced-->No Border.

I guess I'm just not awake.  My previous post on this issue stated that 
I didn't think you could do this after the window was open, but I was 
focused on the request of running a command.

Under Enlightenment, you can right click on the window border and select 
the border style.  Still, I'm not sure how it could be done from a 
script.  But, Enlightenment will remember your settings so that it won't 
have the border when you restart the app.

I guess the question is, what desktop and/or window manager are you running?

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From runman at speedfactory.net  Thu Jan 27 07:09:27 2005
From: runman at speedfactory.net (Greg)
Date: Thu Jan 27 07:09:27 2005
Subject: [ale] Chaintech SKT600 motherboard
In-Reply-To: <41F8D33C.2050402@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <004901c50468$3022bce0$0a00a8c0@atlas>

Actually I'm too used to Linux and OpenBSD products which Just Work tm.

Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org]On Behalf Of
Geoffrey
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 6:41 AM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] Chaintech SKT600 motherboard


Greg wrote:
> Well, it's brand new, fits the mobo's specs, and the beeping stops when I
> play around with the jumpers so I am guessing it's ok.  However I will
test
> it just to make sure.

Greg, you're too used to Microsoft products. :)  You shouldn't have to
debug a brand new product.  Return it for your hard earned money and
replace it with another brand.

--
Until later, Geoffrey
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From preston.boyington at mindspring.com  Thu Jan 27 07:59:43 2005
From: preston.boyington at mindspring.com (Preston Boyington)
Date: Thu Jan 27 07:59:43 2005
Subject: Bowing to M$ (was Re: [ale] comcast static IP?)
In-Reply-To: <7c6a376bad437d8a252b6c8d665f3373@antinode.net>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>	<200501231317.35680.drifter@oppositelock.org>	<1106506972.25997.14.camel@blue>	<200501231559.29737.drifter@oppositelock.org>	<1106515068.2548.16.camel@blue>	<1106518900.18682.3.camel@linux.linxdev.com>	<1106520314.2545.17.camel@blue>	<20050124190246.GH7913@worldnet.att.net>	<1106594000.2512.14.camel@blue>	<41F55412.2070908@mindspring.com>	<1106757357.8199.42.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>	<41F7D14B.5010104@mindspring.com>
	<7c6a376bad437d8a252b6c8d665f3373@antinode.net>
Message-ID: <41F8E425.5070107@mindspring.com>

James Baldwin wrote:
> On 26 Jan 2005, at 12:20, Preston Boyington wrote:
> 
>> Umm, that's Windows Media format as in Microsoft, the Evil Empire. As 
>> in licensed. As in negotiating a deal with them. As in bowing to 
>> Microsoft's superior position and reinforcing it.
> 
> 
> Some of us want more usability out of an operating environment than open 
> source can currently provide.
> 
> Interoperability is key, and not interacting with Microsoft formats is a 
> large detriment to usability. Much of this need derives from Microsoft's 
> position in the market place and its ability to, rightly or wrongly, 
> leverage its market share to achieve greater market penetration. 
> Regardless of the one's approval of Microsoft's market position, many 
> users require interoperability between applications be it Microsoft's 
> Windows Media or document formats or something more obscure unrelated to 
> Microsoft.
> 
> You may disagree with the ethical merits of how Microsoft achieved its 
> position but to characterize interoperability between operating 
> environments with "bowing to Microsoft's superior position and 
> reinforcing it." is unfair and counterproductive to what many in the 
> free software movement are working toward. It is naive to think that 
> World Domination (tm) can be achieved without interoperability at some 
> level.
> 
actually, the "bowing to Microsoft's superior position and reinforcing 
it" was part of the quote from the article I referenced.  the link is 
above the quote in my previous e-mail.

I insist on interoperability, which is why I push for companies to use 
open standards.  How company's achieve the open standard is what should 
be a deciding factor in using that company's software.

If Microsoft has a more intuitive way of creating a text document with 
formatting then that's wonderful, but they shouldn't have the right to 
trap a user in using their operating system/office suite because of a 
text document with formatting.

Interoperability is one thing, but it shouldn't be at the cost of 
submitting to an inferior format.

Preston


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 27 08:51:47 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Thu Jan 27 08:51:47 2005
Subject: [ale] Hiding a window border
In-Reply-To: <41F8D7ED.9030403@3times25.net>
References: <1106794591.4964.32.camel@blue>
	<200501270548.59212.jimmyc@speedfactory.net>
	<41F8D7ED.9030403@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <1106833567.10762.0.camel@blue>

On Thu, 2005-01-27 at 07:00 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> Under Enlightenment, you can right click on the window border and select 
> the border style.  Still, I'm not sure how it could be done from a 
> script.  But, Enlightenment will remember your settings so that it won't 
> have the border when you restart the app.
> 
> I guess the question is, what desktop and/or window manager are you running?

This is under Gnome 2.6.

-Jim P.



From runman at speedfactory.net  Thu Jan 27 09:37:07 2005
From: runman at speedfactory.net (Greg)
Date: Thu Jan 27 09:37:07 2005
Subject: [ale] Chaintech mobo problems
Message-ID: <004f01c5047d$1ec9ec60$0a00a8c0@atlas>

	ok, it now works. (I guess it only works on Thursdays and when my daughter
is in the room) *or* the 2 sticks of RAM need to be in slots #1 and #2 - as
opposed to the documentation which states to put PC3200 in slots #1 & #3
or   #2 & #3 (which I foolishly did thinking the manual was correct).  Next
time I'll do the manly thing and forget the directions.

	Greg


From kaboom at gatech.edu  Thu Jan 27 09:46:22 2005
From: kaboom at gatech.edu (Chris Ricker)
Date: Thu Jan 27 09:46:22 2005
Subject: [ale] This list is flooding with messages
In-Reply-To: <m3oefbwxqz.fsf@telzey.localdomain>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0501241846250.4241-100000@intel.digichem.net>
	<m3oefbwxqz.fsf@telzey.localdomain>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0501270937100.3209@redfish.gatech.edu>

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005, Joe Knapka wrote:

> tfreeman at intel.digichem.net writes:
> 
> [snip]
> 
> > I wish I could remember the physicist up around New York who did something 
> > similar to the supposedly liberal academic establishment ten years ago or 
> > so. Managed to get a paper past a journal editor, ?peer review?, which 
> > when properly read had zero content, just a monumental pile of buzz words, 
> > hot buttons, and devilish syntax. Also made more than a few people upset.
> 
> The paper was "Transgressing the boundaries: towards a transformative
> hermeneutics of quantum gravity". Alan Sokol was the primary author
> (possibly the only one, I don't remember).

Only author.

You can download the paper (and some other interesting stuff) from his web 
page. <http://www.physics.nyu.edu/faculty/sokal/>

later,
chris


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Thu Jan 27 09:48:02 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Thu Jan 27 09:48:02 2005
Subject: [ale] Possible full time opportunity in Kennesaw
Message-ID: <41F8FE12.4040506@3times25.net>

I might have some leads on a full time development position in the 
Kennesaw area.  What I know at this time is Sun hardware, with an 
AcuCobol.  They'd also like the same person to maintain their website. 
I know those are pretty unusual job requirements, but that's what 
they're looking for.  I suspect that if you have the cobol experience 
that will be the highest priority as they have considered farming out 
the website stuff.

More as I get it, for now, drop me private email if you think you meet 
the primary criterium (AcuCobol).

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jbaldwin at antinode.net  Thu Jan 27 09:54:23 2005
From: jbaldwin at antinode.net (James Baldwin)
Date: Thu Jan 27 09:54:23 2005
Subject: Bowing to M$ (was Re: [ale] comcast static IP?)
In-Reply-To: <41F8E425.5070107@mindspring.com>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>	<200501231317.35680.drifter@oppositelock.org>	<1106506972.25997.14.camel@blue>	<200501231559.29737.drifter@oppositelock.org>	<1106515068.2548.16.camel@blue>	<1106518900.18682.3.camel@linux.linxdev.com>	<1106520314.2545.17.camel@blue>	<20050124190246.GH7913@worldnet.att.net>	<1106594000.2512.14.camel@blue>	<41F55412.2070908@mindspring.com>	<1106757357.8199.42.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>	<41F7D14B.5010104@mindspring.com>
	<7c6a376bad437d8a252b6c8d665f3373@antinode.net>
	<41F8E425.5070107@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <50ca7ad68032fd3340a26cff1c67b376@antinode.net>

On 27 Jan 2005, at 07:52, Preston Boyington wrote:

> I insist on interoperability, which is why I push for companies to use 
> open standards.  How company's achieve the open standard is what 
> should be a deciding factor in using that company's software.

As a side note, with the current interest in supporting open standards 
one would have expected Sparc to take off more.
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From artic_knight at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 27 10:01:07 2005
From: artic_knight at yahoo.com (Artic)
Date: Thu Jan 27 10:01:07 2005
Subject: [ale] Delivery service mail
Message-ID: <ceddqkutpjvjgeztzuf@ale.org>

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From aaron at pd.org  Thu Jan 27 10:12:55 2005
From: aaron at pd.org (aaron)
Date: Thu Jan 27 10:12:55 2005
Subject: [ale] Problem Installing Suse 9.2 
Message-ID: <200501270505.35274.aaron@pd.org>


I am in the process of guiding a friend into Linux land in setting up the 
computer that was donated for use in his volunteer work with a youth group. 
The system will be used for basic internet and office applications.

I was leaning toward a Mandrake 10.1 install as the best "desktop for newbie" 
distro choice, but thought I would use the opportunity to scope out the 
current Suse offerings and grabbed the 9.2-FTP-DVD.iso (2004.10.22) from 
ftp.ale.org.

Booting from the DVD, the YaST install process gets through the basics and 
recognizes the system hardware, displaying a nice browser style screen of 
useful installation details, like how it's going to automagically resize the 
existing windblows Miserable Excuse partion.

What YaST is NOT finding is the installation software package lists that one 
would expect to be on the DVD.

I'm beginning to question if this is a complete install disk or if I'm missing 
something. The Readme accompanying the .iso files isn't offering any info on 
this.  I can see a directory of ".sel" package selection list files when I 
look at the DVD on other systems, but I can't seem to navigate to them from 
inside the installation screens and the package manager.

Any helpful info or ideas??

peace
aaron


 



From sriad at uab.edu  Thu Jan 27 10:18:50 2005
From: sriad at uab.edu (Aditya Srinivasan)
Date: Thu Jan 27 10:18:50 2005
Subject: [ale] Why LISP? (was Why Ruby?)
In-Reply-To: <fc.00249f0f237b8a7400249f0f237b8a74.237ba63b@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0501270910120.7899-100000@metric.it.uab.edu>

Hi,

On Thu, 27 Jan 2005, John P. Healey wrote:

> I think the main thing I like about Lisp is that it's absolutely nothing like
> perl, smalltalk, c, python, or java.  Whenever I sit down to try and write
> something in lisp the way i would normally write it in {insert language here},
> i find that lisp manages to accurately embody my ideas in the jumbled mess of
> thought that they truly are.  At that point, I usually throw away whatever i've
> written and rewrite a working copy in a tenth of the amount of code, simply by
> abstracting it properly with macros.

I am interested in learning the functional programming paradigm.
Are there any particular resources online/books you would recommend ?
Also any advice about choosing one amongst LISP/Scheme ?

Thanks,
sriad



From esoteric at 3times25.net  Thu Jan 27 10:20:56 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Thu Jan 27 10:20:56 2005
Subject: [ale] Problem Installing Suse 9.2
In-Reply-To: <200501270505.35274.aaron@pd.org>
References: <200501270505.35274.aaron@pd.org>
Message-ID: <41F905C6.1050102@3times25.net>

aaron wrote:
> I am in the process of guiding a friend into Linux land in setting up the 
> computer that was donated for use in his volunteer work with a youth group. 
> The system will be used for basic internet and office applications.
> 
> I was leaning toward a Mandrake 10.1 install as the best "desktop for newbie" 
> distro choice, but thought I would use the opportunity to scope out the 
> current Suse offerings and grabbed the 9.2-FTP-DVD.iso (2004.10.22) from 
> ftp.ale.org.
> 
> Booting from the DVD, the YaST install process gets through the basics and 
> recognizes the system hardware, displaying a nice browser style screen of 
> useful installation details, like how it's going to automagically resize the 
> existing windblows Miserable Excuse partion.
> 
> What YaST is NOT finding is the installation software package lists that one 
> would expect to be on the DVD.

What is the message it's displaying in the packages selection area?

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jbaldwin at antinode.net  Thu Jan 27 10:46:09 2005
From: jbaldwin at antinode.net (James Baldwin)
Date: Thu Jan 27 10:46:09 2005
Subject: Bowing to M$ (was Re: [ale] comcast static IP?)
In-Reply-To: <41F8E425.5070107@mindspring.com>
References: <20050120135732.3f2b3b01@dev>	<200501231317.35680.drifter@oppositelock.org>	<1106506972.25997.14.camel@blue>	<200501231559.29737.drifter@oppositelock.org>	<1106515068.2548.16.camel@blue>	<1106518900.18682.3.camel@linux.linxdev.com>	<1106520314.2545.17.camel@blue>	<20050124190246.GH7913@worldnet.att.net>	<1106594000.2512.14.camel@blue>	<41F55412.2070908@mindspring.com>	<1106757357.8199.42.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>	<41F7D14B.5010104@mindspring.com>
	<7c6a376bad437d8a252b6c8d665f3373@antinode.net>
	<41F8E425.5070107@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <ebf0d4717c94d21fd22ad3cd101bd2f6@antinode.net>

On 27 Jan 2005, at 07:52, Preston Boyington wrote:

> I insist on interoperability, which is why I push for companies to use 
> open standards.  How company's achieve the open standard is what 
> should be a deciding factor in using that company's software.

I agree that open standards encourage interoperability more than 
proprietary ones. Applications which take advantage of open standards 
and offer and equal or greater amount of usability would be a far 
better weapon to combat proprietary standards. The technical 
sophistication with which many open projects are written cannot be 
questioned, but the usability of those systems is often lacking in 
comparison to their proprietary brethren. Aqua is an excellent example.

> If Microsoft has a more intuitive way of creating a text document with 
> formatting then that's wonderful, but they shouldn't have the right to 
> trap a user in using their operating system/office suite because of a 
> text document with formatting.

Why not? That's like suggesting an MP3 player shouldn't have the right 
to trap a user into using MP3. The retort for this is simple: Use an 
alternative. The iPod traps me into using a very small subset of audio 
formats and I make that sacrifice because the "intuitive way" of 
accessing my music is more important to me than the issue of being 
trapped into that subset of formats.

If it is a question of extensibility, I believe this discussion will 
boil down into "open source good, closed source bad" and I don't think 
that will be very productive.

Users have the choice of using that format or not using that format 
(Users in this sense can mean a single user, a company, or another 
organizational unit). Vendor lock in happens all across the board and 
it has never been questioned as both a successful tactic to retain 
consumer base and a horrible misuse of consumer tendencies.

I think it is important to note that while Microsoft has done many 
things it should be called to question for, software bundling is not 
one of them. And that is what I believe we are discussing: alternate 
software vendors are upset that Microsoft can bundle their own 
applications with their operating system and create a barrier for 
entry, in the form of effort required by the user to acquire the 
alternative. Microsoft should be called to question, and has been, for 
unfair trade practices including the strong arming of OEM vendors by 
requiring them to bundle Microsoft and Microsoft approved software only 
with their distributions.

The distinction is important as it can influence open software projects 
as well, for instance the ubiquitousness of Apache already makes it 
difficult to find distributions which provide more than it as the only 
choice of an http server. Do we yell and scream about Apache lock in? 
No, because we all have the ability to acquire an alternative. The same 
exists for alternative text editors on a Microsoft platform.

> Interoperability is one thing, but it shouldn't be at the cost of 
> submitting to an inferior format.

Microsoft is not the company which requires you to use an inferior 
format.
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From jknapka at kneuro.net  Thu Jan 27 10:50:35 2005
From: jknapka at kneuro.net (Joe Knapka)
Date: Thu Jan 27 10:50:35 2005
Subject: [ale] Why Ruby? [was Pyhon syntax]
In-Reply-To: <64491.24.98.129.46.1106785175.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org>
References: <64491.24.98.129.46.1106785175.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org>
Message-ID: <m3brbax4oe.fsf@telzey.localdomain>

fletch at phydeaux.org writes:

[snip interesting stuff about Ruby]

> [0] Actually poking at python2.3 it looks like a couple that I
>     remember actually may have gotten fixed (lambda actually makes a
>     real closure now, for instance); but indicating block structure by
>     indentation is still broken :)

Of course, NOT indicating block structure by indentation is even more
broken, and is likely to get you fired, if not shot:

for (i=1 to 10) {
for (j=1 to 42) {
if (i<j) {
print i+j;}
else  print j-i;
}}}

:=))

-- Joe

-- 
No sig for you today.
--
pub  1024D/BA496D2B 2004-05-14 Joseph A Knapka
     Key fingerprint = 3BA2 FE72 3CBA D4C2 21E4  C9B4 3230 94D7 BA49 6D2B
If you really want to get my attention, send mail to
jknapka .at. kneuro .dot. net.


From dhurst at mindspring.com  Thu Jan 27 10:58:24 2005
From: dhurst at mindspring.com (Dow_Hurst)
Date: Thu Jan 27 10:58:24 2005
Subject: [ale] Problem Installing Suse 9.2
Message-ID: <7176880.1106841228108.JavaMail.root@wamui04.slb.atl.earthlink.net>

This is a problem that has cropped up with certain DVD drives.  In fact a whole set of Dell DVD drives in their laptop line shipped with this problem.  SuSE's DVD will get to the point where you should be able to configure software and then error's out.  Just switch to a different DVD drive and you should get around the problem.  Or use the CD's instead.
Dow


-----Original Message-----
From: aaron <aaron at pd.org>
Sent: Jan 27, 2005 5:05 AM
To: ALE <ale at ale.org>
Subject: [ale] Problem Installing Suse 9.2 


I am in the process of guiding a friend into Linux land in setting up the 
computer that was donated for use in his volunteer work with a youth group. 
The system will be used for basic internet and office applications.

I was leaning toward a Mandrake 10.1 install as the best "desktop for newbie" 
distro choice, but thought I would use the opportunity to scope out the 
current Suse offerings and grabbed the 9.2-FTP-DVD.iso (2004.10.22) from 
ftp.ale.org.

Booting from the DVD, the YaST install process gets through the basics and 
recognizes the system hardware, displaying a nice browser style screen of 
useful installation details, like how it's going to automagically resize the 
existing windblows Miserable Excuse partion.

What YaST is NOT finding is the installation software package lists that one 
would expect to be on the DVD.

I'm beginning to question if this is a complete install disk or if I'm missing 
something. The Readme accompanying the .iso files isn't offering any info on 
this.  I can see a directory of ".sel" package selection list files when I 
look at the DVD on other systems, but I can't seem to navigate to them from 
inside the installation screens and the package manager.

Any helpful info or ideas??

peace
aaron


 


_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


No sig.


From aaron at pd.org  Thu Jan 27 10:59:41 2005
From: aaron at pd.org (aaron)
Date: Thu Jan 27 10:59:41 2005
Subject: [ale] Problem Installing Suse 9.2
In-Reply-To: <41F905C6.1050102@3times25.net>
References: <200501270505.35274.aaron@pd.org> <41F905C6.1050102@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <200501270552.25096.aaron@pd.org>

On Thursday 27 January 2005 10:16, Geoffrey wrote:
> aaron wrote:
[snip]
> > current Suse offerings and grabbed the 9.2-FTP-DVD.iso (2004.10.22) from 
> > ftp.ale.org.
> > 
> > Booting from the DVD, the YaST install process gets through the basics and 
> > recognizes the system hardware, displaying a nice browser style screen of 
> > useful installation details, like how it's going to automagically resize
> > the  existing windblows Miserable Excuse partion.
> > 
> > What YaST is NOT finding is the installation software package lists that
> >  one would expect to be on the DVD.
>
> 
> What is the message it's displaying in the packages selection area?

Can't say exact wording since the process won't even get that far now... it's 
haninging after RAM disk load.

Basically it was saying that it can't locate package list, as noted above, 
with a suggestion of "Bad Media??"

Given the way it is now behaving intermittently, Bad Media may be the case. 

Out of time to play with it until tonight...

peace
aaron


From jpheale at LearnLink.Emory.Edu  Thu Jan 27 11:10:53 2005
From: jpheale at LearnLink.Emory.Edu (John P. Healey)
Date: Thu Jan 27 11:10:53 2005
Subject: [ale] Why Ruby? [was Pyhon syntax]
In-Reply-To: <m3brbax4oe.fsf@telzey.localdomain>
References: <64491.24.98.129.46.1106785175.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org>
	<m3brbax4oe.fsf@telzey.localdomain>
Message-ID: <fc.00249f0f237d67803b9aca00c904649c.237d7178@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>

indentation is almost as overrated as newlines.  When i write code, I put the
entire program on a single line.  I don't want to be constantly searching for
the line of code that has the bug.  i want to know exactly where the bug is,
and having all code in a single line does that for me.

of course, there are some drawbacks to this approach.  I lost my last job when
my boss found out that I had actually written only 18 lines of code in the two
years I was working there.  But, as far as I know, those 18 lines are still
keeping planes in the air today.

5265762e204a6f686e6e79204865616c6579


From jpheale at LearnLink.Emory.Edu  Thu Jan 27 11:20:50 2005
From: jpheale at LearnLink.Emory.Edu (John P. Healey)
Date: Thu Jan 27 11:20:50 2005
Subject: [ale] Why LISP? (was Why Ruby?)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0501270910120.7899-100000@metric.it.uab.edu>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0501270910120.7899-100000@metric.it.uab.edu>
Message-ID: <fc.00249f0f237d71e400249f0f237b8a74.237d82a9@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>

If you're just interested in the theory behind functional programming, I'd
recommend you learn scheme.  Basically scheme is the intersection of all major
lisp dialects (ANSI Common Lisp is the union).

http://www.schemers.org/ is a pretty good resource for scheme stuff and has a
list of both introductory and advanced books on the subject.  As far as books,
I've heard extremely good things about "The Little Schemer" by Friedman &
Felleise.n


If you're interested in more than just the functional paradigm, I highly
recommend Paul Graham's "Ansi Common Lisp", which provides a much deeper look
in what can actually be accomplished with Lisp.

5265762e204a6f686e6e79204865616c6579


From evanwieren at gmail.com  Thu Jan 27 11:23:18 2005
From: evanwieren at gmail.com (Eric VanWieren)
Date: Thu Jan 27 11:23:18 2005
Subject: [ale] O.T. Job Oportunity -- Emory University
Message-ID: <18de98770501270818767a9c88@mail.gmail.com>

This is a position that is open at Emory. Anyone interested just send
me an email.

Thanks,

Eric

Operating Sys An/Admin, Sr

Emory University
Information Technology and Other Technical	
TECHNICAL SERVICES
Operating Sys An/Admin, Sr
	Posting id:	EUV
	Grade:	092
	Position Type:	FULL-TIME
	Schedule:	M-F
	Posted on:	10/08/2004
	Job Status:	Active
	Requisition#:	143080
	
Min Hourly	$25.84	Mid Hourly	$32.95
Min Monthly	$4,478.93	Mid Monthly	$5,711.33
Min Annual	$53,747.20	Mid Annual	$68,535.99

This is an Exempt position. Employees in this position are paid a
salary on a monthly basis and are not eligible to receive overtime
pay.

JOB DESCRIPTION: Plans and implements one or more muli-platform
operating systems, utilities, and related software to meet
organizational needs. May be responsible for applications on dedicated
servers. Ensures the availability, integrity and reliability of
assigned systems.
MINIMUM QUALIFICATIONS: Five years of operating systems
analysis/administration experience OR a bachelor's degree and three
years of operating systems analysis/administration experience.

Department Information/Preferred Qualifications:
This position is the Operating Systems Analyst/Admin Sr., position for
ITD/Technical Services, Support Services Group in the web team. This
position requires a minimum of 5 years experience in Information
Systems which includes 3+ years in managing Sun/Solaris web server
systems. Must have experience with shell scripts, Perl scripting,
TCP/IP networking, Veritas Volume Manager, File System and EMC
storage. Experience with administering Web technologies like - Cold
Fusion, Apache, Php, Netscape, JAVA, J2EE, EJB, JSP, HTML, Perl, and
Javascript is needed. Prefer High Availability, clustering, Oracle,
LDAP, Linux and project management experience.

Must have excellent problem solving skills, the ability to take the
technical lead on installing Web applications, windows operating
system and using MS-word, Excel, PowerPoint. The ability for close
teaming with DBA team, systems, operations and development staff; work
with various levels of employees and management; handle
multi-tasks/projects and manage to a deadline; work independently and
in a team environment; provide troubleshooting and problem resolution
in a UNIX environment; support the entire web infrastructure including
web servers, application servers, load balancers and the
infrastructure/back-end support for applications - such as BlackBoard,
Insight, Gallery Systems, and all other enterprise applications
written by ITD is imperative.


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Thu Jan 27 11:24:26 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Thu Jan 27 11:24:26 2005
Subject: [ale] Problem Installing Suse 9.2
In-Reply-To: <200501270552.25096.aaron@pd.org>
References: <200501270505.35274.aaron@pd.org> <41F905C6.1050102@3times25.net>
	<200501270552.25096.aaron@pd.org>
Message-ID: <41F91472.7060903@3times25.net>

aaron wrote:
> On Thursday 27 January 2005 10:16, Geoffrey wrote:
> 
>>aaron wrote:

>>>What YaST is NOT finding is the installation software package lists that
>>> one would expect to be on the DVD.
>>
>>
>>What is the message it's displaying in the packages selection area?
> 
> 
> Can't say exact wording since the process won't even get that far now... it's 
> haninging after RAM disk load.
> 
> Basically it was saying that it can't locate package list, as noted above, 
> with a suggestion of "Bad Media??"
> 
> Given the way it is now behaving intermittently, Bad Media may be the case.

This sounds accurate.  Try reburning the dvd.

> 
> Out of time to play with it until tonight...

Know the feeling. :)

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From evanwieren at gmail.com  Thu Jan 27 11:35:25 2005
From: evanwieren at gmail.com (Eric VanWieren)
Date: Thu Jan 27 11:35:25 2005
Subject: [ale] O.T. Job at Emory University
Message-ID: <18de987705012708306a87519e@mail.gmail.com>

This is a position that is open at Emory. Anyone interested just send
me an email.

Thanks,

Eric

Operating Sys An/Admin, Sr

Emory University
Information Technology and Other Technical
TECHNICAL SERVICES
Operating Sys An/Admin, Sr
       Posting id:     EUV
       Grade:  092
       Position Type:  FULL-TIME
       Schedule:       M-F
       Posted on:      10/08/2004
       Job Status:     Active
       Requisition#:   143080

Min Hourly      $25.84  Mid Hourly      $32.95
Min Monthly     $4,478.93       Mid Monthly     $5,711.33
Min Annual      $53,747.20      Mid Annual      $68,535.99

This is an Exempt position. Employees in this position are paid a
salary on a monthly basis and are not eligible to receive overtime
pay.

JOB DESCRIPTION: Plans and implements one or more muli-platform
operating systems, utilities, and related software to meet
organizational needs. May be responsible for applications on dedicated
servers. Ensures the availability, integrity and reliability of
assigned systems.
MINIMUM QUALIFICATIONS: Five years of operating systems
analysis/administration experience OR a bachelor's degree and three
years of operating systems analysis/administration experience.

Department Information/Preferred Qualifications:
This position is the Operating Systems Analyst/Admin Sr., position for
ITD/Technical Services, Support Services Group in the web team. This
position requires a minimum of 5 years experience in Information
Systems which includes 3+ years in managing Sun/Solaris web server
systems. Must have experience with shell scripts, Perl scripting,
TCP/IP networking, Veritas Volume Manager, File System and EMC
storage. Experience with administering Web technologies like - Cold
Fusion, Apache, Php, Netscape, JAVA, J2EE, EJB, JSP, HTML, Perl, and
Javascript is needed. Prefer High Availability, clustering, Oracle,
LDAP, Linux and project management experience.

Must have excellent problem solving skills, the ability to take the
technical lead on installing Web applications, windows operating
system and using MS-word, Excel, PowerPoint. The ability for close
teaming with DBA team, systems, operations and development staff; work
with various levels of employees and management; handle
multi-tasks/projects and manage to a deadline; work independently and
in a team environment; provide troubleshooting and problem resolution
in a UNIX environment; support the entire web infrastructure including
web servers, application servers, load balancers and the
infrastructure/back-end support for applications - such as BlackBoard,
Insight, Gallery Systems, and all other enterprise applications
written by ITD is imperative.


From ale1 at cybertechcafe.net  Thu Jan 27 11:52:55 2005
From: ale1 at cybertechcafe.net (Nathan J. Underwood)
Date: Thu Jan 27 11:52:55 2005
Subject: [ale] OT Speedfactory Problems Anyone?
Message-ID: <41F91B43.5050908@cybertechcafe.net>

Is anyone else having problems with their Speedfactory xDSL?  I've got 3 
locations that are down (all Speedfactory).  Am I just that unlucky, or 
is everyone having trouble?
-- 
--
registered linux user # 73046


From mhirsch at nubridges.com  Thu Jan 27 11:53:46 2005
From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael Hirsch)
Date: Thu Jan 27 11:53:46 2005
Subject: [ale] Why Ruby? [was Pyhon syntax]
Message-ID: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CD87@germanium.numethods.com>

ROTFLMAO!

Well done.  Reminds me of the wannabe cracker who claimed to have broken
in to NORAD and stolen the code that run our missile defense software.
It was so complicated that it had to be written in lisp.  To prove that
he had the code he posted the last kilobyte of the source file.  

It looked like this:
)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
John
> P. Healey
> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 11:01 AM
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [ale] Why Ruby? [was Pyhon syntax]
> 
> indentation is almost as overrated as newlines.  When i write code, I
put
> the
> entire program on a single line.  I don't want to be constantly
searching
> for
> the line of code that has the bug.  i want to know exactly where the
bug
> is,
> and having all code in a single line does that for me.
> 
> of course, there are some drawbacks to this approach.  I lost my last
job
> when
> my boss found out that I had actually written only 18 lines of code in
the
> two
> years I was working there.  But, as far as I know, those 18 lines are
> still
> keeping planes in the air today.
> 
> 5265762e204a6f686e6e79204865616c6579
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale



From jbaldwin at antinode.net  Thu Jan 27 11:57:25 2005
From: jbaldwin at antinode.net (James Baldwin)
Date: Thu Jan 27 11:57:25 2005
Subject: [ale] Why LISP? (was Why Ruby?)
In-Reply-To: <fc.00249f0f237d71e400249f0f237b8a74.237d82a9@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0501270910120.7899-100000@metric.it.uab.edu>
	<fc.00249f0f237d71e400249f0f237b8a74.237d82a9@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>
Message-ID: <22abf556827505c4d00f3910e8c482a1@antinode.net>

When I began developing LISP, I found Common LISP by Steele to be very  
helpful.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1555580416/ 
qid=1106844601/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/002-3063911-6355237? 
v=glance&s=books&n=507846


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From ale1 at cybertechcafe.net  Thu Jan 27 11:59:10 2005
From: ale1 at cybertechcafe.net (Nathan J. Underwood)
Date: Thu Jan 27 11:59:10 2005
Subject: [ale] OT Speedfactory Problems Anyone?
In-Reply-To: <41F91B43.5050908@cybertechcafe.net>
References: <41F91B43.5050908@cybertechcafe.net>
Message-ID: <41F91CCA.60900@cybertechcafe.net>

Just talked to Speedfactory, and they confirmed that something was wrong.
--
registered linux user # 73046

Nathan J. Underwood
Cyber Tech Cafe' <><
http://www.cybertechcafe.net

Nathan J. Underwood wrote:
> Is anyone else having problems with their Speedfactory xDSL?  I've got 3 
> locations that are down (all Speedfactory).  Am I just that unlucky, or 
> is everyone having trouble?


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 27 12:21:25 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Thu Jan 27 12:21:25 2005
Subject: [ale] OT Speedfactory Problems Anyone?
In-Reply-To: <41F91CCA.60900@cybertechcafe.net>
References: <41F91B43.5050908@cybertechcafe.net>
	<41F91CCA.60900@cybertechcafe.net>
Message-ID: <1106846141.14120.1.camel@blue>

On Thu, 2005-01-27 at 11:54 -0500, Nathan J. Underwood wrote:
> Just talked to Speedfactory, and they confirmed that something was wrong.

I'm seeing bid DNS issues all around today (major latency at times).  Is
it possible that SpeedFactory is A-OK but they are having problems with
their DNS servers?

-Jim P.

> --
> registered linux user # 73046
> 
> Nathan J. Underwood
> Cyber Tech Cafe' <><
> http://www.cybertechcafe.net
> 
> Nathan J. Underwood wrote:
> > Is anyone else having problems with their Speedfactory xDSL?  I've got 3 
> > locations that are down (all Speedfactory).  Am I just that unlucky, or 
> > is everyone having trouble?
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From fletch at phydeaux.org  Thu Jan 27 12:23:53 2005
From: fletch at phydeaux.org (Fletch)
Date: Thu Jan 27 12:23:53 2005
Subject: [ale] Why LISP?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0501270910120.7899-100000@metric.it.uab.edu>
	(Aditya
	Srinivasan's message of "Thu, 27 Jan 2005 09:14:12 -0600 (CST)")
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0501270910120.7899-100000@metric.it.uab.edu>
Message-ID: <m2oefa23jg.fsf@freebie.phydeaux.org>

>>>>> "Aditya" == Aditya Srinivasan <sriad at uab.edu> writes:


[...]

    Aditya> I am interested in learning the functional programming
    Aditya> paradigm.  Are there any particular resources online/books
    Aditya> you would recommend ?

If it ever comes out in stores there's _Higer Order Perl_ which how to
write Perl with a Lisp:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1558607013/


There was some kerfuffle with the code in the final proofs getting
completely frelled in the typesetting (kinda ironic given the
conversation about Pythonic whitespace :) and it's been delayed a
little bit longer.  The rough drafts of the chapters were available to
a mailing list and it looks to be very interesting if they can ever
get it onto dead trees.

-- 
Fletch                | "If you find my answers frightening,       __`'/|
fletch at phydeaux.org|  Vincent, you should cease askin'          \ o.O'
                      |  scary questions." -- Jules                =(___)=
                      |                                               U


From bmacleod at guc.usg.edu  Thu Jan 27 12:33:54 2005
From: bmacleod at guc.usg.edu (Brian MacLeod)
Date: Thu Jan 27 12:33:54 2005
Subject: [ale] OT Speedfactory Problems Anyone?
Message-ID: <84A4AD5B2983944780FBCFEE30EBF504071DA4@ravenclaw.solitude.guc.usg.edu>

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On 
> Behalf Of Jim Popovitch
> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 12:16 PM
> 
> 
> I'm seeing bid DNS issues all around today (major latency at 
> times).  Is it possible that SpeedFactory is A-OK but they 
> are having problems with their DNS servers?
> 
> -Jim P.


I wish it were that easy.  No, something a little worse than that, as I
cannot reach my home server using ssh or openvpn via the IP address.
Good thing I'm not home.

bnm


From trey at fastmail.fm  Thu Jan 27 12:36:51 2005
From: trey at fastmail.fm (Trey Sizemore)
Date: Thu Jan 27 12:36:51 2005
Subject: [ale] Getting Linux OS to boot
Message-ID: <41F9258A.6000409@fastmail.fm>

I have 2 IDE drives laid out as follows:

1 (master) - 80GB with FreeBSD occupying entire drive
2 (slave) - 80GB with 4 linux distros
    hdb1- Fedora Core 3 /
    hdb2 - Fedora Core 3 /home
    hdb3 - swap
    hdb4 - ***EXTENDED PARTITION***
    hdb5 - SUSE 9.2 /
    hdb6 - SUSE 9.2 /home
    hdb7 - Mandrake 10.2 /
    hdb8 - Mandrake 10.2 /home
    hdb9 - Arch 0.7 /
    hdb10 - Arch 0.7 /home

When I installed the Linux distros I chose not to install a boot loader 
for any of them (thinking that a bootmanager like GAG would handle 
this).  In retrospect, this may have been a conceptual error as GAG 
would error with "Boot sector not found or corrupt" for these 
partitions.  On the advice of someone on the Fedora User's list, I 
booted the Fedora CD in rescue mode and:
# chroot /mnt/sysimage
# /sbin/grub-install /dev/hdb1

When I rebooted with GAG and set it to boot Fedora using hdb1, it now 
gives me a 'grub>' prompt.

How can I recover this and get Fedora to boot beyond this?  I'm hoping 
luck with this will enable me to do the same for the other Linux 
distros.  If there are any other suggestions on this, I'm certainly open 
to them as well.

Thanks.


From ale1 at cybertechcafe.net  Thu Jan 27 12:42:58 2005
From: ale1 at cybertechcafe.net (Nathan J. Underwood)
Date: Thu Jan 27 12:42:58 2005
Subject: [ale] OT Speedfactory Problems Anyone?
In-Reply-To: <1106846141.14120.1.camel@blue>
References: <41F91B43.5050908@cybertechcafe.net>	<41F91CCA.60900@cybertechcafe.net>
	<1106846141.14120.1.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <41F9270F.6030206@cybertechcafe.net>

I think it's a bit bigger than DNS, as I can't get to the hostname(s) or 
the IP's.
--
registered linux user # 73046

Nathan J. Underwood
Cyber Tech Cafe' <><
http://www.cybertechcafe.net

Jim Popovitch wrote:
> On Thu, 2005-01-27 at 11:54 -0500, Nathan J. Underwood wrote:
> 
>>Just talked to Speedfactory, and they confirmed that something was wrong.
> 
> 
> I'm seeing bid DNS issues all around today (major latency at times).  Is
> it possible that SpeedFactory is A-OK but they are having problems with
> their DNS servers?
> 
> -Jim P.
> 
> 
>>--
>>registered linux user # 73046
>>
>>Nathan J. Underwood
>>Cyber Tech Cafe' <><
>>http://www.cybertechcafe.net
>>
>>Nathan J. Underwood wrote:
>>
>>>Is anyone else having problems with their Speedfactory xDSL?  I've got 3 
>>>locations that are down (all Speedfactory).  Am I just that unlucky, or 
>>>is everyone having trouble?
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Ale mailing list
>>Ale at ale.org
>>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From ale1 at cybertechcafe.net  Thu Jan 27 12:46:51 2005
From: ale1 at cybertechcafe.net (Nathan J. Underwood)
Date: Thu Jan 27 12:46:51 2005
Subject: [ale] OT Speedfactory Problems Anyone?
In-Reply-To: <41F91B43.5050908@cybertechcafe.net>
References: <41F91B43.5050908@cybertechcafe.net>
Message-ID: <41F92772.4060504@cybertechcafe.net>

And now it seems to be back up.
--
registered linux user # 73046

Nathan J. Underwood
Cyber Tech Cafe' <><
http://www.cybertechcafe.net

Nathan J. Underwood wrote:
> Is anyone else having problems with their Speedfactory xDSL?  I've got 3 
> locations that are down (all Speedfactory).  Am I just that unlucky, or 
> is everyone having trouble?


From mhirsch at nubridges.com  Thu Jan 27 13:14:15 2005
From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael Hirsch)
Date: Thu Jan 27 13:14:15 2005
Subject: [ale] Getting Linux OS to boot
Message-ID: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CDA2@germanium.numethods.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
Trey
> Sizemore
> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 12:32 PM
> To: ale at ale.org
> Subject: [ale] Getting Linux OS to boot
> 
> I have 2 IDE drives laid out as follows:
> 
> 1 (master) - 80GB with FreeBSD occupying entire drive
> 2 (slave) - 80GB with 4 linux distros
>     hdb1- Fedora Core 3 /
>     hdb2 - Fedora Core 3 /home
>     hdb3 - swap
>     hdb4 - ***EXTENDED PARTITION***
>     hdb5 - SUSE 9.2 /
>     hdb6 - SUSE 9.2 /home
>     hdb7 - Mandrake 10.2 /
>     hdb8 - Mandrake 10.2 /home
>     hdb9 - Arch 0.7 /
>     hdb10 - Arch 0.7 /home
> 
> When I installed the Linux distros I chose not to install a boot
loader
> for any of them (thinking that a bootmanager like GAG would handle
> this).  In retrospect, this may have been a conceptual error as GAG
> would error with "Boot sector not found or corrupt" for these
> partitions.  On the advice of someone on the Fedora User's list, I
> booted the Fedora CD in rescue mode and:
> # chroot /mnt/sysimage
> # /sbin/grub-install /dev/hdb1
> 
> When I rebooted with GAG and set it to boot Fedora using hdb1, it now
> gives me a 'grub>' prompt.
> 
> How can I recover this and get Fedora to boot beyond this?  I'm hoping
> luck with this will enable me to do the same for the other Linux
> distros.  If there are any other suggestions on this, I'm certainly
open
> to them as well.

You now need to edit Fedora's /boot/grub/menu.lst file and give it
entries for all the different linux distributions.  Each one needs a
different root, kernel, and initrd entry.

My redhat grub entry looks like this:

default=0
timeout=10
splashimage=(hd0,4)/grub/splash.xpm.gz
title Red Hat Linux (2.4.20-37.9.legacy)
        root (hd0,4)
        kernel /vmlinuz-2.4.20-37.9.legacy ro root=LABEL=/
        initrd /initrd-2.4.20-37.9.legacy.img

A few points:
1. I have a separate /boot partition.  You don't, so all the file paths
will have an extra /boot at the beginning.
2. The root command specifies which partition of the HD your
distribution is on in grub's native format.  So for you, it'll be
(hd1,0) for Fedora core 2, (hd1,4) for SuSE, etc.
3. The kernel and initrd should be the ones for each specific
distribution.
4. The root parameter on the kernel is which partition that kernel will
use in the usual linux format, so it'll be /dev/hdb1 for fedora core 2,
etc.

Michael


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Thu Jan 27 13:15:28 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Thu Jan 27 13:15:28 2005
Subject: [ale] OT Speedfactory Problems Anyone?
In-Reply-To: <41F91B43.5050908@cybertechcafe.net>
References: <41F91B43.5050908@cybertechcafe.net>
Message-ID: <41F92E62.7020602@3times25.net>

Nathan J. Underwood wrote:
> Is anyone else having problems with their Speedfactory xDSL?  I've got 3 
> locations that are down (all Speedfactory).  Am I just that unlucky, or 
> is everyone having trouble?

Yeah, went down about 1.5 hours ago.  It's back now, check with them.



-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From runman at speedfactory.net  Thu Jan 27 13:16:16 2005
From: runman at speedfactory.net (Greg)
Date: Thu Jan 27 13:16:16 2005
Subject: [ale] OT Speedfactory Problems Anyone?
In-Reply-To: <41F92772.4060504@cybertechcafe.net>
Message-ID: <005e01c5049b$24494230$0a00a8c0@atlas>

Per a call to Speedfactory it was a BellSouth problem with all PPPOE users -
Earthlink as well as Speedfactory.

Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org]On Behalf Of
Nathan J. Underwood
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 12:40 PM
To: ale1 at cybertechcafe.net; Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] OT Speedfactory Problems Anyone?


And now it seems to be back up.
--
registered linux user # 73046

Nathan J. Underwood
Cyber Tech Cafe' <><
http://www.cybertechcafe.net

Nathan J. Underwood wrote:
> Is anyone else having problems with their Speedfactory xDSL?  I've got 3
> locations that are down (all Speedfactory).  Am I just that unlucky, or
> is everyone having trouble?
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Thu Jan 27 13:19:44 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Thu Jan 27 13:19:44 2005
Subject: [ale] Getting Linux OS to boot
In-Reply-To: <41F9258A.6000409@fastmail.fm>
References: <41F9258A.6000409@fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <41F92FAE.4030107@3times25.net>

Trey Sizemore wrote:
> I have 2 IDE drives laid out as follows:
> 
> 1 (master) - 80GB with FreeBSD occupying entire drive
> 2 (slave) - 80GB with 4 linux distros
>    hdb1- Fedora Core 3 /
>    hdb2 - Fedora Core 3 /home
>    hdb3 - swap
>    hdb4 - ***EXTENDED PARTITION***
>    hdb5 - SUSE 9.2 /
>    hdb6 - SUSE 9.2 /home
>    hdb7 - Mandrake 10.2 /
>    hdb8 - Mandrake 10.2 /home
>    hdb9 - Arch 0.7 /
>    hdb10 - Arch 0.7 /home
> 
> When I installed the Linux distros I chose not to install a boot loader 
> for any of them (thinking that a bootmanager like GAG would handle 
> this).  In retrospect, this may have been a conceptual error as GAG 
> would error with "Boot sector not found or corrupt" for these 
> partitions.  On the advice of someone on the Fedora User's list, I 
> booted the Fedora CD in rescue mode and:
> # chroot /mnt/sysimage
> # /sbin/grub-install /dev/hdb1
> 
> When I rebooted with GAG and set it to boot Fedora using hdb1, it now 
> gives me a 'grub>' prompt.

What does the grub config file look like?  You might try running 
grub-install.


-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From trey at fastmail.fm  Thu Jan 27 13:34:17 2005
From: trey at fastmail.fm (Trey Sizemore)
Date: Thu Jan 27 13:34:17 2005
Subject: [ale] Getting Linux OS to boot
In-Reply-To: <41F92FAE.4030107@3times25.net>
References: <41F9258A.6000409@fastmail.fm> <41F92FAE.4030107@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <41F93308.5020309@fastmail.fm>

Geoffrey wrote:

> Trey Sizemore wrote:
>
>> I have 2 IDE drives laid out as follows:
>>
>> 1 (master) - 80GB with FreeBSD occupying entire drive
>> 2 (slave) - 80GB with 4 linux distros
>>    hdb1- Fedora Core 3 /
>>    hdb2 - Fedora Core 3 /home
>>    hdb3 - swap
>>    hdb4 - ***EXTENDED PARTITION***
>>    hdb5 - SUSE 9.2 /
>>    hdb6 - SUSE 9.2 /home
>>    hdb7 - Mandrake 10.2 /
>>    hdb8 - Mandrake 10.2 /home
>>    hdb9 - Arch 0.7 /
>>    hdb10 - Arch 0.7 /home
>>
>> When I installed the Linux distros I chose not to install a boot 
>> loader for any of them (thinking that a bootmanager like GAG would 
>> handle this).  In retrospect, this may have been a conceptual error 
>> as GAG would error with "Boot sector not found or corrupt" for these 
>> partitions.  On the advice of someone on the Fedora User's list, I 
>> booted the Fedora CD in rescue mode and:
>> # chroot /mnt/sysimage
>> # /sbin/grub-install /dev/hdb1
>>
>> When I rebooted with GAG and set it to boot Fedora using hdb1, it now 
>> gives me a 'grub>' prompt.
>
>
> What does the grub config file look like?  You might try running 
> grub-install.
>
>
Well, I've not got it where I can boot to Mandrake (rescue mode allowed 
me to install grub on the slave drive's MBR).  So now the trick will be 
to add the other distros to Mandrake's grub.conf file...haven't done 
that in quite a while.  I'm sure with a little digging I can remember 
the format.


From jb at sourceillustrated.com  Thu Jan 27 13:41:27 2005
From: jb at sourceillustrated.com (John Wells)
Date: Thu Jan 27 13:41:27 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: Scrum and Extended Development
Message-ID: <36734.66.192.236.118.1106855020.squirrel@66.192.236.118>

All,

I know there's a few Scrum guys on the list.  I've been researching Scrum
for possible implementation in our organization, but have read (and
sensed, to a certain extent), that Scrum is better suited for new product
development ("Both Scrum and Sashimi are suited best to new product
development rather than extended development" --
http://www.controlchaos.com/about/how.php).

My company works on a large ERP system.  It's core functionality is there
and we mainly do bug fixes and enhancements.  We are in the midst of a
conversion from Progress 4GL to Java, so the app is changing, but it's
still 80% functionally complete (at least).

So...my question: is anyone actually using Scrum in an extended
development environment?  If not, what agile alternatives might you
suggest?

Thanks!

John



From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Thu Jan 27 13:43:49 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Thu Jan 27 13:43:49 2005
Subject: [ale] Py[h]hon syntax (sic)
In-Reply-To: <41F7CF8F.6040200@proteus-tech.com>
References: <54612.24.98.129.46.1106752999.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org>
	<1106756890.23708.80.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
	<41F7CF8F.6040200@proteus-tech.com>
Message-ID: <1106851149.16046.22.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>

Could someone show me how to convert this code from perl to python. 
This is a typical piece of code that I use:

sub ping($$) { 
  my ($IP, $tries) = @_;
  my $resp = undef;
  my $max = ($tries ? $tries : 2);
  
  
  for(my $x = 0; $x < $max; $x++) {
    open(OUT, "ping -c 1 $IP |");
    while(<OUT>) {
      next unless  m/(\d+)\sreceived/;
      $resp = $1;
      _print(sprintf("Try: %d/%d Resp: %d\n", ($x+1), $max, $resp));
    }
    close(OUT);
    if($resp) {
      $x = $max;
    } else {
    }
  }

  return $resp;
}

All the function does is test to see if a host is up.  IF not it then
reports and error to a user using Net::SMTP.  Is there an equivalent in
Pyton?  If not I could simply roll my own using sockets.

On Wed, 2005-01-26 at 12:12, Benjamin Scherrey wrote:
> uh... read it again six months after you wrote it and understand what 
> the heck it does? :)
> 
>     Perl really does excel as a scripting language for processing files 
> of text, especially using regular expressions. That's its original 
> purpose and, sticking to that scope, I couldn't argue conclusively for 
> another language over it. However, python and ruby, while perhaps 
> introduced as scripting languages, are really full fledged and elegant 
> high level application development languages that are purposely written 
> to develop complex and powerful applications beyond scripts and admin 
> tasks. Perl has a gazzillion majic symbols that one must remember to do 
> anything complex with and there are more (correct!) ways to approach a 
> given task than there are perl programmers so consistency of code 
> amongst a group of programmers (even with the group size==1!) is almost 
> never found. Even in respect to its regular expression abilities, the 
> new version of python is as expressive and as efficient so, in the area 
> where perl once stood above all others, it has not maintained its dominance.
> 
>     Without trying to engage in a language war I think the question you 
> pose is not the right one. Given enough mastery of any given programming 
> language I could make the same assertion of being capable of 
> accomplishing almost any task. Does that mean all languages are equally 
> functional or expressive? Certainly not. It really should be which 
> language is the right tool for a particular job. Perl was designed for a 
> particular job and does it well. Outside of that scope, however, perl 
> shows its shortcomings pretty rapidly. Just because something *can* be 
> done using a given language doesn't mean its a good idea.
> 
>     For me, C++ and python cover the full breath of any programming 
> project I've ever encountered or conceived of. Yet, to this day, each 
> time I approach a new programming task I always try to identify what 
> languages are best suited for that task if only to identify what idioms 
> or patterns might best be used to attack the problem at hand. Each 
> language has its own particular idioms that drive its best use and can 
> teach us things about problem solving even when we may not end up using 
> that particular language in the final solution. That is why one should 
> learn as many languages as one can - it makes you more expressive.
> 
>     -- Ben Scherrey
> 
> Christopher Fowler wrote:
> 
> >I'm finding that I can accomplish almost any task in Perl that I want. 
> >Only problem is that it is not fully OOP.  Other than OOP what can you
> >do in say Ruby or Python that you can not do in Perl?
> >
> >  
> >


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Thu Jan 27 13:48:44 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Thu Jan 27 13:48:44 2005
Subject: [ale] Getting Linux OS to boot
In-Reply-To: <41F93308.5020309@fastmail.fm>
References: <41F9258A.6000409@fastmail.fm> <41F92FAE.4030107@3times25.net>
	<41F93308.5020309@fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <41F9367B.6080905@3times25.net>

Trey Sizemore wrote:
> Geoffrey wrote:

>> What does the grub config file look like?  You might try running 
>> grub-install.
>>
>>
> Well, I've not got it where I can boot to Mandrake (rescue mode allowed 
> me to install grub on the slave drive's MBR).  So now the trick will be 
> to add the other distros to Mandrake's grub.conf file...haven't done 
> that in quite a while.  I'm sure with a little digging I can remember 
> the format.

It's pretty straight forward, just keep the number correct.  The actual 
references to the filesystems (/dev/hda1) will be the same, but remember:

root (hd0,7)  is /dev/hda8
root (hd1,1)  is /dev/hdb2

Make sure you get the kernel names right as some use variations.  Also, 
some use different references to the initrd image:

SuSE:		initrd (hd0,1)/boot/initrd
Mandrake:	initrd (hd0,1)/boot/initrd.img

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From trey at fastmail.fm  Thu Jan 27 13:54:20 2005
From: trey at fastmail.fm (Trey Sizemore)
Date: Thu Jan 27 13:54:20 2005
Subject: [ale] Getting Linux OS to boot
In-Reply-To: <41F9367B.6080905@3times25.net>
References: <41F9258A.6000409@fastmail.fm>
	<41F92FAE.4030107@3times25.net>	<41F93308.5020309@fastmail.fm>
	<41F9367B.6080905@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <41F937B7.1060306@fastmail.fm>

Geoffrey wrote:

> Trey Sizemore wrote:
>
>> Geoffrey wrote:
>
>
>>> What does the grub config file look like?  You might try running 
>>> grub-install.
>>>
>>>
>> Well, I've not got it where I can boot to Mandrake (rescue mode 
>> allowed me to install grub on the slave drive's MBR).  So now the 
>> trick will be to add the other distros to Mandrake's grub.conf 
>> file...haven't done that in quite a while.  I'm sure with a little 
>> digging I can remember the format.
>
>
> It's pretty straight forward, just keep the number correct.  The 
> actual references to the filesystems (/dev/hda1) will be the same, but 
> remember:
>
> root (hd0,7)  is /dev/hda8
> root (hd1,1)  is /dev/hdb2
>
> Make sure you get the kernel names right as some use variations.  
> Also, some use different references to the initrd image:
>
> SuSE:        initrd (hd0,1)/boot/initrd
> Mandrake:    initrd (hd0,1)/boot/initrd.img
>
I think I remember doing this many moons ago and I mounted the other 
partitions from within the current distro to see what the actual paths  
were for things like /boot/initrd and others...



From trey at fastmail.fm  Thu Jan 27 14:20:20 2005
From: trey at fastmail.fm (Trey Sizemore)
Date: Thu Jan 27 14:20:20 2005
Subject: [ale] Getting Linux OS to boot
In-Reply-To: <41F9367B.6080905@3times25.net>
References: <41F9258A.6000409@fastmail.fm>
	<41F92FAE.4030107@3times25.net>	<41F93308.5020309@fastmail.fm>
	<41F9367B.6080905@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <41F93DD4.2030904@fastmail.fm>

Geoffrey wrote:

> Trey Sizemore wrote:
>
>> Geoffrey wrote:
>
>
>>> What does the grub config file look like?  You might try running 
>>> grub-install.
>>>
>>>
>> Well, I've not got it where I can boot to Mandrake (rescue mode 
>> allowed me to install grub on the slave drive's MBR).  So now the 
>> trick will be to add the other distros to Mandrake's grub.conf 
>> file...haven't done that in quite a while.  I'm sure with a little 
>> digging I can remember the format.
>
>
> It's pretty straight forward, just keep the number correct.  The 
> actual references to the filesystems (/dev/hda1) will be the same, but 
> remember:
>
> root (hd0,7)  is /dev/hda8
> root (hd1,1)  is /dev/hdb2
>
> Make sure you get the kernel names right as some use variations.  
> Also, some use different references to the initrd image:
>
> SuSE:        initrd (hd0,1)/boot/initrd
> Mandrake:    initrd (hd0,1)/boot/initrd.img
>
Do I need to add entries in Mandrake's /etc/fstab before they can be 
booted from entries in lilo.conf?


From jloden at toughguy.net  Thu Jan 27 14:33:54 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Thu Jan 27 14:33:54 2005
Subject: [ale] Why Ruby? [was Pyhon syntax]
In-Reply-To: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CD87@germanium.numethods.com>
References: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CD87@germanium.numethods.com>
Message-ID: <200501271427.50321.jloden@toughguy.net>

Reminds me of something that happened to my dad...he was a programmer and 
engineer for Sikorsky Aircraft, and they bought out a smaller company's 
software.  One of the contingencies of the contract was handing over the 
source code.

They handed the source code over to my dad's group, alright....with all the 
whitespace removed.  The code was a simulation-specific language that was 
entirely keyword driven...so once the spacing was gone, it was just one big 
string of ascii text, page after page of it. 

-Jay

On Thursday 27 January 2005 11:48 am, Michael Hirsch wrote:
> ROTFLMAO!
>
> Well done.  Reminds me of the wannabe cracker who claimed to have broken
> in to NORAD and stolen the code that run our missile defense software.
> It was so complicated that it had to be written in lisp.  To prove that
> he had the code he posted the last kilobyte of the source file.
>
> It looked like this:
> )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
> )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
> )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
> )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
> )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
> )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
> )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
> )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
> )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
> )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
> )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
> )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
> )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
> )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
>
> Michael
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
>
> John
>
> > P. Healey
> > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 11:01 AM
> > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> > Subject: Re: [ale] Why Ruby? [was Pyhon syntax]
> >
> > indentation is almost as overrated as newlines.  When i write code, I
>
> put
>
> > the
> > entire program on a single line.  I don't want to be constantly
>
> searching
>
> > for
> > the line of code that has the bug.  i want to know exactly where the
>
> bug
>
> > is,
> > and having all code in a single line does that for me.
> >
> > of course, there are some drawbacks to this approach.  I lost my last
>
> job
>
> > when
> > my boss found out that I had actually written only 18 lines of code in
>
> the
>
> > two
> > years I was working there.  But, as far as I know, those 18 lines are
> > still
> > keeping planes in the air today.
> >
> > 5265762e204a6f686e6e79204865616c6579
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From mhirsch at nubridges.com  Thu Jan 27 14:41:49 2005
From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael Hirsch)
Date: Thu Jan 27 14:41:49 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: Scrum and Extended Development
Message-ID: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CDD5@germanium.numethods.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
John
> Wells
> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 2:44 PM
> To: ale at ale.org
> Subject: [ale] OT: Scrum and Extended Development
> 
> All,
> 
> I know there's a few Scrum guys on the list.  I've been researching
Scrum
> for possible implementation in our organization, but have read (and
> sensed, to a certain extent), that Scrum is better suited for new
product
> development ("Both Scrum and Sashimi are suited best to new product
> development rather than extended development" --
> http://www.controlchaos.com/about/how.php).

Wow.  I'd never seen that before, and there it is in the first line of
that page.

I don't know what is meant by that line.  What does "extended
development" mean in this context?  I would have used it to mean "a
development project over an extended period of time" in which case,
scrum is ideal.  I guess they mean "development extending earlier,
non-scrum, development" in which case they recommend against it.  I
think that all processes are best used ab initio, and that scrum is no
worse than any other for starting in the middle.

> My company works on a large ERP system.  It's core functionality is
there
> and we mainly do bug fixes and enhancements.  We are in the midst of a
> conversion from Progress 4GL to Java, so the app is changing, but it's
> still 80% functionally complete (at least).
> 
> So...my question: is anyone actually using Scrum in an extended
> development environment?  If not, what agile alternatives might you
> suggest?

I'd like to see why they make that claim.  I think scrum is great for
coming in and clearing logjams in projects.

Scrum sounds to me like a really good thing to use on your project.
After each iteration you are supposed to have "shippable code".  It
should be fully tested and running--no "demo ware".  For a conversion
project, this seems like a good thing.

Scrum only works if you have real management buy-in on it.  If you adopt
it, will management let you proceed?  Will they let you not change
requirements except between iterations?  Will they let you have fixed
length iterations?  If not, then I wouldn't bother adopting it.

Good luck,

Michael



From mhirsch at nubridges.com  Thu Jan 27 14:45:28 2005
From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael Hirsch)
Date: Thu Jan 27 14:45:28 2005
Subject: [ale] Getting Linux OS to boot
Message-ID: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CDD8@germanium.numethods.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
Trey
> Sizemore
> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 2:16 PM
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [ale] Getting Linux OS to boot
> 
> Geoffrey wrote:
> 
> > Trey Sizemore wrote:
> >
> >> Geoffrey wrote:
> >
> >
> >>> What does the grub config file look like?  You might try running
> >>> grub-install.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Well, I've not got it where I can boot to Mandrake (rescue mode
> >> allowed me to install grub on the slave drive's MBR).  So now the
> >> trick will be to add the other distros to Mandrake's grub.conf
> >> file...haven't done that in quite a while.  I'm sure with a little
> >> digging I can remember the format.
> >
> >
> > It's pretty straight forward, just keep the number correct.  The
> > actual references to the filesystems (/dev/hda1) will be the same,
but
> > remember:
> >
> > root (hd0,7)  is /dev/hda8
> > root (hd1,1)  is /dev/hdb2
> >
> > Make sure you get the kernel names right as some use variations.
> > Also, some use different references to the initrd image:
> >
> > SuSE:        initrd (hd0,1)/boot/initrd
> > Mandrake:    initrd (hd0,1)/boot/initrd.img
> >
> Do I need to add entries in Mandrake's /etc/fstab before they can be
> booted from entries in lilo.conf?

No.  fstab is only used after boot to know what to mount.  And I thought
we were talking about grub, not lilo??

Michael


From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Thu Jan 27 14:50:33 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Thu Jan 27 14:50:33 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: Scrum and Extended Development
In-Reply-To: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CDD5@germanium.numethods.com>
References: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CDD5@germanium.numethods.com>
Message-ID: <1106855118.16046.35.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>

Seems to me like this is the Nirvana of programming.  As a developer if
I could place those restrictions on sales, executives, users, and others
then my life would be easier.  Not a week goes by that sales does not
try to add stuff to a feature list.  In this environment they would have
to add a feature to their own list and wait until the next iteration for
it to be developed.  What sales rep do you know that can wait for
features to be developed?

On Thu, 2005-01-27 at 14:36, Michael Hirsch wrote:

> I'd like to see why they make that claim.  I think scrum is great for
> coming in and clearing logjams in projects.
> 
> Scrum sounds to me like a really good thing to use on your project.
> After each iteration you are supposed to have "shippable code".  It
> should be fully tested and running--no "demo ware".  For a conversion
> project, this seems like a good thing.
> 
> Scrum only works if you have real management buy-in on it.  If you adopt
> it, will management let you proceed?  Will they let you not change
> requirements except between iterations?  Will they let you have fixed
> length iterations?  If not, then I wouldn't bother adopting it.
> 
> Good luck,
> 
> Michael
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From jpheale at LearnLink.Emory.Edu  Thu Jan 27 14:57:43 2005
From: jpheale at LearnLink.Emory.Edu (John P. Healey)
Date: Thu Jan 27 14:57:43 2005
Subject: [ale] Py[h]hon syntax (sic)
In-Reply-To: <1106851149.16046.22.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
References: <54612.24.98.129.46.1106752999.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org> <	>
	<1106756890.23708.80.camel@linux.linxdev.com> <	>
	<41F7CF8F.6040200@proteus-tech.com>
	<1106851149.16046.22.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
Message-ID: <fc.00249f0f237e97793b9aca0051c22f51.237e9cd0@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>

the code for pinging would look something like this:

import os
import re

def ping(ip, tries = 2):
    my_re = re.compile('(\w|\W)+ (\d) received, (\w|\W)+')
    for attempt in range(tries):
        ping_in, ping_out = os.popen2("ping -c 1 %s" % ip)
        for line in ping_out:
            rec_match = my_re.match(line)
            if not rec_match: continue
            received = int(rec_match.groups()[1])
            if not received: continue
            return attempt + 1
    return False

it takes an optional second argument (# of tries) and returns the number of
tries needed when successful, False otherwise.  the SMTP stuff can be handled
with smtplib.  it's part of the standard library.  the main python site has
pretty good documentation on this, including example code:

http://docs.python.org/lib/module-smtplib.html


5265762e204a6f686e6e79204865616c6579


From trey at fastmail.fm  Thu Jan 27 15:01:13 2005
From: trey at fastmail.fm (Trey Sizemore)
Date: Thu Jan 27 15:01:13 2005
Subject: [ale] Getting Linux OS to boot
In-Reply-To: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CDD8@germanium.numethods.com>
References: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CDD8@germanium.numethods.com>
Message-ID: <41F94770.9040406@fastmail.fm>

Michael Hirsch wrote:

>  
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
>>    
>>
>Trey
>  
>
>>Sizemore
>>Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 2:16 PM
>>To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
>>Subject: Re: [ale] Getting Linux OS to boot
>>
>>Geoffrey wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Trey Sizemore wrote:
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Geoffrey wrote:
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>What does the grub config file look like?  You might try running
>>>>>grub-install.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>Well, I've not got it where I can boot to Mandrake (rescue mode
>>>>allowed me to install grub on the slave drive's MBR).  So now the
>>>>trick will be to add the other distros to Mandrake's grub.conf
>>>>file...haven't done that in quite a while.  I'm sure with a little
>>>>digging I can remember the format.
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>It's pretty straight forward, just keep the number correct.  The
>>>actual references to the filesystems (/dev/hda1) will be the same,
>>>      
>>>
>but
>  
>
>>>remember:
>>>
>>>root (hd0,7)  is /dev/hda8
>>>root (hd1,1)  is /dev/hdb2
>>>
>>>Make sure you get the kernel names right as some use variations.
>>>Also, some use different references to the initrd image:
>>>
>>>SuSE:        initrd (hd0,1)/boot/initrd
>>>Mandrake:    initrd (hd0,1)/boot/initrd.img
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>Do I need to add entries in Mandrake's /etc/fstab before they can be
>>booted from entries in lilo.conf?
>>    
>>
>
>No.  fstab is only used after boot to know what to mount.  And I thought
>we were talking about grub, not lilo??
>
>  
>
Well, in the Mandrake rescue mode, I told it to install the bootloader 
to the MBR for /dev/hdb, but it didn't prompt me for which one.  I can 
find a lilo.conf but no grub.conf even though both are installed.  I 
don't know *which* bootloader it is!



From esoteric at 3times25.net  Thu Jan 27 15:22:01 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Thu Jan 27 15:22:01 2005
Subject: [ale] Getting Linux OS to boot
In-Reply-To: <41F93DD4.2030904@fastmail.fm>
References: <41F9258A.6000409@fastmail.fm>	<41F92FAE.4030107@3times25.net>	<41F93308.5020309@fastmail.fm>	<41F9367B.6080905@3times25.net>
	<41F93DD4.2030904@fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <41F94C56.4060002@3times25.net>

Trey Sizemore wrote:
> Geoffrey wrote:

>> It's pretty straight forward, just keep the number correct.  The 
>> actual references to the filesystems (/dev/hda1) will be the same, but 
>> remember:
>>
>> root (hd0,7)  is /dev/hda8
>> root (hd1,1)  is /dev/hdb2
>>
>> Make sure you get the kernel names right as some use variations.  
>> Also, some use different references to the initrd image:
>>
>> SuSE:        initrd (hd0,1)/boot/initrd
>> Mandrake:    initrd (hd0,1)/boot/initrd.img
>>
> Do I need to add entries in Mandrake's /etc/fstab before they can be 
> booted from entries in lilo.conf?

I'm not sure I understand.  Your /etc/fstab on Mandrake should minimally 
reflect what is necessary to boot Mandrake, /, /boot if you have one. 
It doesn't need to have any references to other OS root or boot 
partitions as you'll specify where to find those based on their hardware 
names (/dev/hda...)

If you're using lilo, be sure to run lilo after modifying your lilo.conf 
and before you reboot.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Thu Jan 27 15:26:17 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Thu Jan 27 15:26:17 2005
Subject: [ale] Why Ruby? [was Pyhon syntax]
In-Reply-To: <fc.00249f0f237d67803b9aca00c904649c.237d7178@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>
References: <64491.24.98.129.46.1106785175.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org>
	<m3brbax4oe.fsf@telzey.localdomain>
	<fc.00249f0f237d67803b9aca00c904649c.237d7178@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>
Message-ID: <1106857292.16329.232.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>

On Thu, 2005-01-27 at 11:00 -0500, John P. Healey wrote:
> indentation is almost as overrated as newlines.  When i write code, I put the
> entire program on a single line.  I don't want to be constantly searching for
> the line of code that has the bug.  i want to know exactly where the bug is,
> and having all code in a single line does that for me.
> 
> of course, there are some drawbacks to this approach.  I lost my last job when
> my boss found out that I had actually written only 18 lines of code in the two
> years I was working there.  But, as far as I know, those 18 lines are still
> keeping planes in the air today.
> 

I went the other way on that. The last job I had that did the
performance count by lines of code saw a prolific line count. I mastered
the art of coninuing a simple line over 12-20 lines by adding extra
indention and line spacing for readability.

So while some

people would

find it

annoying

to use as

much space

as 

I

when 

coding a simple menu,

I found it much

easier

to add handwritten

comments

to the printouts

during boring meetings.
> 5265762e204a6f686e6e79204865616c6579
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> !DSPAM:41f9121b238693116814647!
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From esoteric at 3times25.net  Thu Jan 27 15:27:25 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Thu Jan 27 15:27:25 2005
Subject: [ale] Getting Linux OS to boot
In-Reply-To: <41F94770.9040406@fastmail.fm>
References: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CDD8@germanium.numethods.com>
	<41F94770.9040406@fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <41F94D7E.7050303@3times25.net>

Trey Sizemore wrote:

> Well, in the Mandrake rescue mode, I told it to install the bootloader 
> to the MBR for /dev/hdb, but it didn't prompt me for which one.  I can 
> find a lilo.conf but no grub.conf even though both are installed.  I 
> don't know *which* bootloader it is!

Look in /boot/grub for menu.lst rather than grub.conf

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jb at sourceillustrated.com  Thu Jan 27 15:34:38 2005
From: jb at sourceillustrated.com (John Wells)
Date: Thu Jan 27 15:34:38 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: Scrum and Extended Development
In-Reply-To: <1106855118.16046.35.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
References: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CDD5@germanium.numethods.com>
	<1106855118.16046.35.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
Message-ID: <51329.66.192.236.118.1106861815.squirrel@66.192.236.118>

Christopher Fowler said:
> Seems to me like this is the Nirvana of programming.  As a developer if
> I could place those restrictions on sales, executives, users, and others
> then my life would be easier.  Not a week goes by that sales does not
> try to add stuff to a feature list.  In this environment they would have
> to add a feature to their own list and wait until the next iteration for
> it to be developed.  What sales rep do you know that can wait for
> features to be developed?

That's just it...this isn't a product we sell...it's a product we (3500
employees) use.

That gives us some room for creativity, especially with Sarbanes Oxley
breathing down our necks...

My plan is to drive a monthly Software Change Control Board meeting where
RFEs and fixes are discussed.  What comes out of this meeting would be
used to prioritize those things that could be added to Scrum Sprint
backlog.....

John


From trey at fastmail.fm  Thu Jan 27 15:38:42 2005
From: trey at fastmail.fm (Trey Sizemore)
Date: Thu Jan 27 15:38:42 2005
Subject: [ale] Getting Linux OS to boot
In-Reply-To: <41F94D7E.7050303@3times25.net>
References: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CDD8@germanium.numethods.com>	<41F94770.9040406@fastmail.fm>
	<41F94D7E.7050303@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <41F95036.4010903@fastmail.fm>

Geoffrey wrote:

> Trey Sizemore wrote:
>
>> Well, in the Mandrake rescue mode, I told it to install the 
>> bootloader to the MBR for /dev/hdb, but it didn't prompt me for which 
>> one.  I can find a lilo.conf but no grub.conf even though both are 
>> installed.  I don't know *which* bootloader it is!
>
>
> Look in /boot/grub for menu.lst rather than grub.conf
>
No, I don't appear to have that either.  Assuming I use lilo to boot 
mandrake (big assume) would my lilo.conf entries be thus:

image=/mnt/fedora/boot/vmlinuz
    label=fedora
    root=/dev/hdb1
    initrd=/mnt/fedora/boot/initrd.img

image=/mnt/suse/boot/vmlinuz
    label=suse
    root=/dev/hdb5
    initrd=/mnt/suse/boot/initrd

1 - it appears that I can just point to vmlinz in both cases as they are 
symlinks to the current vmlinuz files (same for initrd)?
2 - do I need the /mnt/XXX/ or can I just say something like 
image=/boot/vmlinuz?


From transam at verysecurelinux.com  Thu Jan 27 15:52:01 2005
From: transam at verysecurelinux.com (Bob Toxen)
Date: Thu Jan 27 15:52:01 2005
Subject: [ale] OT Speedfactory Problems Anyone?
In-Reply-To: <84A4AD5B2983944780FBCFEE30EBF504071DA4@ravenclaw.solitude.guc.usg.edu>
References: <84A4AD5B2983944780FBCFEE30EBF504071DA4@ravenclaw.solitude.guc.usg.edu>
Message-ID: <20050127204722.GB16209@verysecurelinux.com>

For problems like this, traceroute is your friend and can show where
the problem is in seconds!

Before tracerouting, I do:

     ping -c 1 yahoo.com

If it says "unknown host" or fails to output its first line with the
DNS resolution that normally looks like:

     PING yahoo.com (216.109.112.135) from 10.11.12.13 : 56(84) bytes...

then DNS is down.

Regardless of that, know the IP of a system on the Internet and then
do a traceroute to its numeric IP, e.g.,

     traceroute 216.109.112.135

You may want to give the "-n" flag to not do DNS resolution.

Bob Toxen
bob at verysecurelinux.com               [Please use for email to me]
http://www.verysecurelinux.com        [Network&Linux/Unix security consulting]
http://www.realworldlinuxsecurity.com [My book:"Real World Linux Security 2/e"]
Quality Linux & UNIX security and SysAdmin & software consulting since 1990.

"Microsoft: Unsafe at any clock speed!"
   -- Bob Toxen 10/03/2002

On Thu, Jan 27, 2005 at 12:29:16PM -0500, Brian MacLeod wrote:

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On 
> > Behalf Of Jim Popovitch
> > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 12:16 PM


> > I'm seeing bid DNS issues all around today (major latency at 
> > times).  Is it possible that SpeedFactory is A-OK but they 
> > are having problems with their DNS servers?

> > -Jim P.


> I wish it were that easy.  No, something a little worse than that, as I
> cannot reach my home server using ssh or openvpn via the IP address.
> Good thing I'm not home.

> bnm


From jbaldwin at antinode.net  Thu Jan 27 16:25:59 2005
From: jbaldwin at antinode.net (James Baldwin)
Date: Thu Jan 27 16:25:59 2005
Subject: Connectivity Troubleshooting (was Re: [ale] OT Speedfactory Problems
	Anyone?)
In-Reply-To: <20050127204722.GB16209@verysecurelinux.com>
References: <84A4AD5B2983944780FBCFEE30EBF504071DA4@ravenclaw.solitude.guc.usg.edu>
	<20050127204722.GB16209@verysecurelinux.com>
Message-ID: <ba7281b39ec36e500ff8acb10550dd6e@antinode.net>

On 27 Jan 2005, at 15:47, Bob Toxen wrote:

> Before tracerouting, I do:
>
>      ping -c 1 yahoo.com
>
> If it says "unknown host" or fails to output its first line with the
> DNS resolution that normally looks like:
>
>      PING yahoo.com (216.109.112.135) from 10.11.12.13 : 56(84) 
> bytes...
>
> then DNS is down.
>
> Regardless of that, know the IP of a system on the Internet and then
> do a traceroute to its numeric IP, e.g.,
>
>      traceroute 216.109.112.135
>
> You may want to give the "-n" flag to not do DNS resolution.

When checking for connectivity problems three great IPs to remember:
	4.2.2.2, 4.2.2.3 and 18.18.18.18

These are three DNS servers which will serve up responses to anyone, 
anywhere. I doubt that's what the provider intended, however it does 
make troubleshooting easy.

Any other tricks of the trade?
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From mhirsch at nubridges.com  Thu Jan 27 16:37:51 2005
From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael Hirsch)
Date: Thu Jan 27 16:37:51 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: Scrum and Extended Development
Message-ID: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CE19@germanium.numethods.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
> Christopher Fowler
> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 2:45 PM
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> Subject: RE: [ale] OT: Scrum and Extended Development
> 
> Seems to me like this is the Nirvana of programming.  As a developer
if
> I could place those restrictions on sales, executives, users, and
others
> then my life would be easier.  Not a week goes by that sales does not
> try to add stuff to a feature list.  In this environment they would
have
> to add a feature to their own list and wait until the next iteration
for
> it to be developed.  What sales rep do you know that can wait for
> features to be developed?

Now you know why I like it.  I think that most sales reps actually
understand the need to prioritize development and not be interrupt
driven (though maybe not in those words) but we developers and our
processes rarely encourage them to act that way.  One nice thing about
scrum is that there is an official process in place that disallows that
kind of behavior, and there is an official person in place (the
scrummaster) who will enforce it.

OTOH, scrum does allow the sales guy to put their new request on the
backlog of items to be developed, which is very satisfying for them.  A
couple of weeks later when the next iteration is planned the project
owner gets to decide what will be implemented, but at least it is on the
official list of items.  

It works quite nicely.

Michael

> On Thu, 2005-01-27 at 14:36, Michael Hirsch wrote:
> 
> > I'd like to see why they make that claim.  I think scrum is great
for
> > coming in and clearing logjams in projects.
> >
> > Scrum sounds to me like a really good thing to use on your project.
> > After each iteration you are supposed to have "shippable code".  It
> > should be fully tested and running--no "demo ware".  For a
conversion
> > project, this seems like a good thing.
> >
> > Scrum only works if you have real management buy-in on it.  If you
adopt
> > it, will management let you proceed?  Will they let you not change
> > requirements except between iterations?  Will they let you have
fixed
> > length iterations?  If not, then I wouldn't bother adopting it.
> >
> > Good luck,
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale



From mhirsch at nubridges.com  Thu Jan 27 16:41:48 2005
From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael Hirsch)
Date: Thu Jan 27 16:41:48 2005
Subject: [ale] Getting Linux OS to boot
Message-ID: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CE1C@germanium.numethods.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
Trey
> Sizemore
> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 2:57 PM
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [ale] Getting Linux OS to boot
> 
> Michael Hirsch wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
> >>
> >>
> >Trey
> >
> >
> >>Sizemore
> >>Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 2:16 PM
> >>To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> >>Subject: Re: [ale] Getting Linux OS to boot
> >>
> >>Geoffrey wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Trey Sizemore wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Geoffrey wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>What does the grub config file look like?  You might try running
> >>>>>grub-install.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>Well, I've not got it where I can boot to Mandrake (rescue mode
> >>>>allowed me to install grub on the slave drive's MBR).  So now the
> >>>>trick will be to add the other distros to Mandrake's grub.conf
> >>>>file...haven't done that in quite a while.  I'm sure with a little
> >>>>digging I can remember the format.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>It's pretty straight forward, just keep the number correct.  The
> >>>actual references to the filesystems (/dev/hda1) will be the same,
> >>>
> >>>
> >but
> >
> >
> >>>remember:
> >>>
> >>>root (hd0,7)  is /dev/hda8
> >>>root (hd1,1)  is /dev/hdb2
> >>>
> >>>Make sure you get the kernel names right as some use variations.
> >>>Also, some use different references to the initrd image:
> >>>
> >>>SuSE:        initrd (hd0,1)/boot/initrd
> >>>Mandrake:    initrd (hd0,1)/boot/initrd.img
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Do I need to add entries in Mandrake's /etc/fstab before they can be
> >>booted from entries in lilo.conf?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >No.  fstab is only used after boot to know what to mount.  And I
thought
> >we were talking about grub, not lilo??
> >
> >
> >
> Well, in the Mandrake rescue mode, I told it to install the bootloader
> to the MBR for /dev/hdb, but it didn't prompt me for which one.  I can
> find a lilo.conf but no grub.conf even though both are installed.  I
> don't know *which* bootloader it is!
> 
When you boot /dev/hdb do you see LILO or GRUB?  That'll tell you.  :-)

You might also look for menu.lst instead of grub.conf.  menu.lst is the
original name, though people seem to be moving towards grub.conf.  I
don't recall which Mandrake uses--I think they are symlinked together.

Michael



From n4zm at mindspring.com  Thu Jan 27 16:59:30 2005
From: n4zm at mindspring.com (zeb)
Date: Thu Jan 27 16:59:30 2005
Subject: [ale] Getting Linux OS to boot
In-Reply-To: <41F95036.4010903@fastmail.fm>
References: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CDD8@germanium.numethods.com>
	<41F94D7E.7050303@3times25.net> <41F95036.4010903@fastmail.fm>
Message-ID: <200501271653.50070.n4zm@mindspring.com>

On Thursday 27 January 2005 15:33, Trey Sizemore wrote:
> Geoffrey wrote:
> > Trey Sizemore wrote:
> >> Well, in the Mandrake rescue mode, I told it to install the
> >> bootloader to the MBR for /dev/hdb, but it didn't prompt me for
> >> which one.  I can find a lilo.conf but no grub.conf even though
> >> both are installed.  I don't know *which* bootloader it is!
> >
> > Look in /boot/grub for menu.lst rather than grub.conf
>
> No, I don't appear to have that either.  Assuming I use lilo to
> boot mandrake (big assume) would my lilo.conf entries be thus:
>
> image=/mnt/fedora/boot/vmlinuz
>     label=fedora
>     root=/dev/hdb1
>     initrd=/mnt/fedora/boot/initrd.img
>
> image=/mnt/suse/boot/vmlinuz
>     label=suse
>     root=/dev/hdb5
>     initrd=/mnt/suse/boot/initrd
>
> 1 - it appears that I can just point to vmlinz in both cases as
> they are symlinks to the current vmlinuz files (same for initrd)?
> 2 - do I need the /mnt/XXX/ or can I just say something like
> image=/boot/vmlinuz?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

I have used lilo to boot multiple operating systems.  I do it a 
different way.  If the above procedure does not work, re-post and I 
will tell you how I have done it.

Regards....


From trey at fastmail.fm  Thu Jan 27 17:01:09 2005
From: trey at fastmail.fm (Trey Sizemore)
Date: Thu Jan 27 17:01:09 2005
Subject: [ale] Getting Linux OS to boot
In-Reply-To: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CE1C@germanium.numethods.com>
References: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CE1C@germanium.numethods.com>
Message-ID: <41F9635A.9090300@fastmail.fm>

Michael Hirsch wrote:

>>Well, in the Mandrake rescue mode, I told it to install the bootloader
>>to the MBR for /dev/hdb, but it didn't prompt me for which one.  I can
>>find a lilo.conf but no grub.conf even though both are installed.  I
>>don't know *which* bootloader it is!
>>
>>    
>>
>When you boot /dev/hdb do you see LILO or GRUB?  That'll tell you.  :-)
>
>You might also look for menu.lst instead of grub.conf.  menu.lst is the
>original name, though people seem to be moving towards grub.conf.  I
>don't recall which Mandrake uses--I think they are symlinked together.
>
>Michael
>
It's LILO.  Now I just want  to make sure that the syntax is correct per 
my post a little higher up in the thread.


From mhirsch at nubridges.com  Thu Jan 27 17:12:22 2005
From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael Hirsch)
Date: Thu Jan 27 17:12:22 2005
Subject: [ale] Getting Linux OS to boot
Message-ID: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CE26@germanium.numethods.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
Trey
> Sizemore
> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 4:56 PM
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [ale] Getting Linux OS to boot
> 
> Michael Hirsch wrote:
> 
> >>Well, in the Mandrake rescue mode, I told it to install the
bootloader
> >>to the MBR for /dev/hdb, but it didn't prompt me for which one.  I
can
> >>find a lilo.conf but no grub.conf even though both are installed.  I
> >>don't know *which* bootloader it is!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >When you boot /dev/hdb do you see LILO or GRUB?  That'll tell you.
:-)
> >
> >You might also look for menu.lst instead of grub.conf.  menu.lst is
the
> >original name, though people seem to be moving towards grub.conf.  I
> >don't recall which Mandrake uses--I think they are symlinked
together.
> >
> >Michael
> >
> It's LILO.  Now I just want  to make sure that the syntax is correct
per
> my post a little higher up in the thread.

You really want to switch to grub--especially if you are booting
multiple OSes.  With grub, if you get it wrong you can still use the
command line to figure it out at boot time.  (I did this just yesterday
when we were having boot problems.)  With lilo any time you upgrade the
kernel you have to rerun lilo.  So if you are using mandrake's lilo
setup and you upgrade your SuSE kernel, how are you going to run
mandrakes lilo install?  

Grub is just a simple text file.  You install it once and edit the file.
No danger of rendering your system unbootable by forgetting to rerun it.
And even if you mess up the config file, you can always edit it at boot
time to get your system running again.

Michael


From trey at fastmail.fm  Thu Jan 27 17:32:14 2005
From: trey at fastmail.fm (Trey Sizemore)
Date: Thu Jan 27 17:32:14 2005
Subject: [ale] Getting Linux OS to boot
In-Reply-To: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CE26@germanium.numethods.com>
References: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CE26@germanium.numethods.com>
Message-ID: <1106864920.17396.1.camel@localhost>

On Thu, 2005-01-27 at 17:07 -0500, Michael Hirsch wrote:
> You really want to switch to grub--especially if you are booting
> multiple OSes.  With grub, if you get it wrong you can still use the
> command line to figure it out at boot time.  (I did this just yesterday
> when we were having boot problems.)  With lilo any time you upgrade the
> kernel you have to rerun lilo.  So if you are using mandrake's lilo
> setup and you upgrade your SuSE kernel, how are you going to run
> mandrakes lilo install?  
> 
> Grub is just a simple text file.  You install it once and edit the file.
> No danger of rendering your system unbootable by forgetting to rerun it.
> And even if you mess up the config file, you can always edit it at boot
> time to get your system running again.
> 
> Michael

Sounds good.  I'll just need to play around and figure how to change the
boot loader to grub.


From jkf at wolfnet.org  Thu Jan 27 17:42:03 2005
From: jkf at wolfnet.org (Jason Fritcher)
Date: Thu Jan 27 17:42:03 2005
Subject: [ale] OT Speedfactory Problems Anyone?
In-Reply-To: <20050127204722.GB16209@verysecurelinux.com>
References: <84A4AD5B2983944780FBCFEE30EBF504071DA4@ravenclaw.solitude.guc.usg.edu>
	<20050127204722.GB16209@verysecurelinux.com>
Message-ID: <41F96D1A.90303@wolfnet.org>

Bob Toxen wrote:
> For problems like this, traceroute is your friend and can show where
> the problem is in seconds!

I've always been preferential to mtr, Matt's TraceRoute. Its not 
installed by default on any distro that I know of, but I put it on any 
box I admin. For those that don't know, mtr is a combination of 
traceroute and ping program. It traces a route, and then proceeds to 
ping every host on the route and keeps track of stats like below.

HOST: outreach             Loss%   Snt   Last   Avg  Best  Wrst StDev
   1. 192.168.0.1           10.0%    10    0.4   0.5   0.4   0.5   0.0
   2. 10.239.116.1           0.0%    10   10.0  11.9   8.5  23.1   4.9
   3. 66.56.23.38            0.0%     9   10.7  12.1   9.2  19.9   4.0
   4. 12.118.120.89          0.0%     9   13.5  14.6  11.3  23.6   3.9
   5. 12.123.21.138          0.0%     9   13.3  14.4  11.6  17.8   2.1
   6. 12.122.10.69           0.0%     9   27.0  27.2  23.1  33.8   3.5
   7. 12.123.217.18          0.0%     9   24.3  26.3  23.5  38.4   4.6
   8. 12.118.132.34          0.0%     9   29.0  27.2  24.6  29.3   2.1
   9. 207.173.114.129        0.0%     9   25.3  27.9  25.3  31.1   2.2
  10. 207.173.114.250        0.0%     9   43.7  45.0  41.2  56.7   4.8
  11. 207.173.115.53         0.0%     9   95.4  95.5  93.5 100.4   2.0
  12. 208.186.21.17          0.0%     9   96.7  95.1  93.3  97.5   1.5
  13. 207.173.114.9          0.0%     9   87.0  88.3  82.5 102.2   5.6
  14. 207.173.114.50         0.0%     9   85.2  85.4  83.4  90.5   2.3
  15. 67.51.190.118          0.0%     9   84.9  86.2  84.0  88.7   1.6
  16. 207.173.133.249        0.0%     9   93.2  90.5  88.6  93.2   1.5
  17. 209.210.251.10        11.1%     9   91.0  93.9  90.5 111.2   7.1

-- 
Jason Fritcher
jkf at wolfnet.org


From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Thu Jan 27 17:50:00 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Thu Jan 27 17:50:00 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: Scrum and Extended Development
In-Reply-To: <51329.66.192.236.118.1106861815.squirrel@66.192.236.118>
References: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CDD5@germanium.numethods.com>
	<1106855118.16046.35.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
	<51329.66.192.236.118.1106861815.squirrel@66.192.236.118>
Message-ID: <1106865928.4932.5.camel@linux.linxdev.com>

On Thu, 2005-01-27 at 16:36, John Wells wrote:
> Christopher Fowler said:
> > Seems to me like this is the Nirvana of programming.  As a developer if
> > I could place those restrictions on sales, executives, users, and others
> > then my life would be easier.  Not a week goes by that sales does not
> > try to add stuff to a feature list.  In this environment they would have
> > to add a feature to their own list and wait until the next iteration for
> > it to be developed.  What sales rep do you know that can wait for
> > features to be developed?
> 
> That's just it...this isn't a product we sell...it's a product we (3500
> employees) use.
> 
> That gives us some room for creativity, especially with Sarbanes Oxley
> breathing down our necks...

If you can force the people who do not develop into some rules that can
not be broken then it is a good way to go.  As I said my problem is that
we have too much code to write and no time to write it so since there
are no formal design stages changes are made all the time.  Which sucks



From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Thu Jan 27 17:53:18 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Thu Jan 27 17:53:18 2005
Subject: [ale] Py[h]hon syntax (sic)
In-Reply-To: <fc.00249f0f237e97793b9aca0051c22f51.237e9cd0@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>
References: <54612.24.98.129.46.1106752999.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org> <	>
	<1106756890.23708.80.camel@linux.linxdev.com> <	>
	<41F7CF8F.6040200@proteus-tech.com>
	<1106851149.16046.22.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
	<fc.00249f0f237e97793b9aca0051c22f51.237e9cd0@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>
Message-ID: <1106866120.4932.10.camel@linux.linxdev.com>

What I find interesting is that the regular expression in this code
seems to be for the whole line.  In perl '/(\d) received/' would have
been fine but when I reduced the expression in this code then it failed
to see the host as being up.


On Thu, 2005-01-27 at 14:49, John P. Healey wrote:
> the code for pinging would look something like this:
> 
> import os
> import re
> 
> def ping(ip, tries = 2):
>     my_re = re.compile('(\w|\W)+ (\d) received, (\w|\W)+')
>     for attempt in range(tries):
>         ping_in, ping_out = os.popen2("ping -c 1 %s" % ip)
>         for line in ping_out:
>             rec_match = my_re.match(line)
>             if not rec_match: continue
>             received = int(rec_match.groups()[1])
>             if not received: continue
>             return attempt + 1
>     return False
> 
> it takes an optional second argument (# of tries) and returns the number of
> tries needed when successful, False otherwise.  the SMTP stuff can be handled
> with smtplib.  it's part of the standard library.  the main python site has
> pretty good documentation on this, including example code:
> 
> http://docs.python.org/lib/module-smtplib.html
> 
> 
> 5265762e204a6f686e6e79204865616c6579
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Thu Jan 27 18:11:26 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Thu Jan 27 18:11:26 2005
Subject: [ale] Py[h]hon syntax (sic)
In-Reply-To: <fc.00249f0f237e97793b9aca0051c22f51.237e9cd0@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>
References: <54612.24.98.129.46.1106752999.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org> <	>
	<1106756890.23708.80.camel@linux.linxdev.com> <	>
	<41F7CF8F.6040200@proteus-tech.com>
	<1106851149.16046.22.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
	<fc.00249f0f237e97793b9aca0051c22f51.237e9cd0@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>
Message-ID: <1106867206.4932.18.camel@linux.linxdev.com>

Here is my WIP code.   I'm converting an agent I wrote in perl that
checks the database for our embedded devices in the field.  It then does
a ping to see if they are available.  The perl agent does more in the
fact that it will email the admin and also store states in the db. So it
will check every 5 minutes on a host and then email the admin every 60
minutes until the host is back up.  The thing I hate about the perl
agent is that it round robins the list.  That is no good so I will
either convert it to do a fork() on each object or I'll use threads.  Is
there threads in python?  I think in Perl threads are not really threads
as they would be in C.  

chop up this code and tell me how it can be better:


--- Cut Here --- Cut Here ----------------------------------------------

#!/usr/bin/env python

import sys;
import MySQLdb;
import os;
import re;

class Ens:
  def set_name(self, name):
    self.name = name;
  def set_id(self, id):
    self.id = id;
  def set_ip(self, ip):
    self.ip = ip;
  def get_name(self):
    return self.name;
  def get_id(self):
    return self.id;
  def get_ip(self):
    return self.ip;


def ping(ip, tries = 2):
  my_re = re.compile('(\w|\W)+ (\d) received, (\w|\W)+')
  for attempt in range(tries):
    ping_in, ping_out = os.popen2("ping -c 1 %s" % ip)
    for line in ping_out:
      rec_match = my_re.match(line)
      if not rec_match: continue
      received = int(rec_match.groups()[1])
      if not received: continue
      return attempt + 1

  return False


class Application:
  def main(self):
    db = MySQLdb.connect(host="127.0.0.1", user="cms", passwd="cms",
db="AC_OUTPOST");
    c = db.cursor();
    c.execute("select * from ens");
    ENS = [ ];

    while True:
      row = c.fetchone();
      if not row: break;
      e = Ens();
      e.set_name(row[2]);
      e.set_id(row[0]);
      e.set_ip(row[5]);
      ENS.append(e);

    for tmp in ENS:
     result = ping(tmp.get_ip());
     if not result:
       print "ID:",tmp.get_id()," Name:",tmp.get_name()," DOWN!";
    else:
       print "ID:",tmp.get_id()," Name:",tmp.get_name()," UP!";


program = Application();
program.main();

# vi: set ts=2 sw=2: #

--- Cut Here --- Cut Here ----------------------------------------------

How do I set the object constructor so that I can simply create an Ens
object with all the information needed?  Is it possible to simply pass
the whole row into the constructor?

I read in the O'reilly book "Learning Python" that the code can be
compiled into a .pyc file.  How do I compile into .pyc so that I can
distribute the code without the source being seen?  This is one of my
biggest problems with Perl.

Thanks,
Chris


On Thu, 2005-01-27 at 14:49, John P. Healey wrote:
> the code for pinging would look something like this:
> 
> import os
> import re
> 
> def ping(ip, tries = 2):
>     my_re = re.compile('(\w|\W)+ (\d) received, (\w|\W)+')
>     for attempt in range(tries):
>         ping_in, ping_out = os.popen2("ping -c 1 %s" % ip)
>         for line in ping_out:
>             rec_match = my_re.match(line)
>             if not rec_match: continue
>             received = int(rec_match.groups()[1])
>             if not received: continue
>             return attempt + 1
>     return False
> 
> it takes an optional second argument (# of tries) and returns the number of
> tries needed when successful, False otherwise.  the SMTP stuff can be handled
> with smtplib.  it's part of the standard library.  the main python site has
> pretty good documentation on this, including example code:
> 
> http://docs.python.org/lib/module-smtplib.html
> 
> 
> 5265762e204a6f686e6e79204865616c6579
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Thu Jan 27 20:20:53 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Thu Jan 27 20:20:53 2005
Subject: [ale] Getting Linux OS to boot
In-Reply-To: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CE26@germanium.numethods.com>
References: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CE26@germanium.numethods.com>
Message-ID: <41F99257.7060302@3times25.net>

Michael Hirsch wrote:

> You really want to switch to grub--especially if you are booting
> multiple OSes.

I would tend to agree.

> With grub, if you get it wrong you can still use the
> command line to figure it out at boot time.  (I did this just yesterday
> when we were having boot problems.)  With lilo any time you upgrade the
> kernel you have to rerun lilo.  So if you are using mandrake's lilo
> setup and you upgrade your SuSE kernel, how are you going to run
> mandrakes lilo install?

Boot SuSE, chroot to mandrake, run lilo. :)

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Thu Jan 27 20:36:58 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Thu Jan 27 20:36:58 2005
Subject: [ale] Getting Linux OS to boot
In-Reply-To: <41F99257.7060302@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <20050128013220.81399.qmail@web54407.mail.yahoo.com>

I've got a tiny XP partition, Soalris 10, Fedora 3,
and in a few moments (gesturing wildly at screen)
Ubuntu.

Grub is the smack.

--J


--- Geoffrey <esoteric at 3times25.net> wrote:

> Michael Hirsch wrote:
> 
> > You really want to switch to grub--especially if
> you are booting
> > multiple OSes.
> 
> I would tend to agree.
> 
> > With grub, if you get it wrong you can still use
> the
> > command line to figure it out at boot time.  (I
> did this just yesterday
> > when we were having boot problems.)  With lilo any
> time you upgrade the
> > kernel you have to rerun lilo.  So if you are
> using mandrake's lilo
> > setup and you upgrade your SuSE kernel, how are
> you going to run
> > mandrakes lilo install?
> 
> Boot SuSE, chroot to mandrake, run lilo. :)
> 
> -- 
> Until later, Geoffrey
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Thu Jan 27 20:47:57 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Thu Jan 27 20:47:57 2005
Subject: [ale] Getting Linux OS to boot
In-Reply-To: <20050128013220.81399.qmail@web54407.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20050128013220.81399.qmail@web54407.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <41F998B4.9030702@3times25.net>

Jerald Sheets wrote:
> I've got a tiny XP partition, Soalris 10, Fedora 3,
> and in a few moments (gesturing wildly at screen)
> Ubuntu.

Remember the box I brought to Lisa?  It had:

FC1,
FC2,
Mandrake 10.1,
Suse 9.0,
Suse 9.1
Sun Java desktop,
Lindows,
Xandros

I think that was all of them. :)

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From trey at fastmail.fm  Thu Jan 27 21:49:09 2005
From: trey at fastmail.fm (Trey Sizemore)
Date: Thu Jan 27 21:49:09 2005
Subject: [ale] Getting Linux OS to boot
In-Reply-To: <41F998B4.9030702@3times25.net>
References: <20050128013220.81399.qmail@web54407.mail.yahoo.com>
	<41F998B4.9030702@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <1106880263.13524.213763218@webmail.messagingengine.com>


On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 20:43:16 -0500, "Geoffrey" <esoteric at 3times25.net>
said:
> Jerald Sheets wrote:
> > I've got a tiny XP partition, Soalris 10, Fedora 3,
> > and in a few moments (gesturing wildly at screen)
> > Ubuntu.
> 
> Remember the box I brought to Lisa?  It had:
> 
> FC1,
> FC2,
> Mandrake 10.1,
> Suse 9.0,
> Suse 9.1
> Sun Java desktop,
> Lindows,
> Xandros
> 
> I think that was all of them. :)
> 
Woof!  One disk, two disks?  I'd be curious to see your grub.conf or
menu.list.
-- 
  Trey Sizemore
  trey at fastmail.fm


From ringo at margaritasrus.com  Thu Jan 27 22:29:39 2005
From: ringo at margaritasrus.com (ringo)
Date: Thu Jan 27 22:29:39 2005
Subject: [ale] accessing my linux box from a windows machine
In-Reply-To: <1106880263.13524.213763218@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <03f601c504e8$ea2a6d60$bb00a8c0@Ringo>

I have a network in m home and would like to access my linux box to copy
files. If I go to Network neighborhood I see:
Groups on Samba 3.0.7-5-SUSE(linux)
profiles on Samba 3.0.7-5-SUSE(linux)
users on Samba 3.0.7-5-SUSE(linux)

No matter which one I click it asks me for a logon and password. I've
tried my normal login "ringo" and that password as well as root and that
password.
Is there something else I need to do ?
Ringo




From mcangeli at bellsouth.net  Thu Jan 27 22:32:18 2005
From: mcangeli at bellsouth.net (Mark Angeli)
Date: Thu Jan 27 22:32:18 2005
Subject: [ale] accessing my linux box from a windows machine
In-Reply-To: <03f601c504e8$ea2a6d60$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
References: <03f601c504e8$ea2a6d60$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
Message-ID: <41F9AF95.4070801@bellsouth.net>

On your linux box, you have to add a samba user and password.

I believe the command is smbpasswd

Mark
http://linuxfoo.org


ringo wrote:

>I have a network in m home and would like to access my linux box to copy
>files. If I go to Network neighborhood I see:
>Groups on Samba 3.0.7-5-SUSE(linux)
>profiles on Samba 3.0.7-5-SUSE(linux)
>users on Samba 3.0.7-5-SUSE(linux)
>
>No matter which one I click it asks me for a logon and password. I've
>tried my normal login "ringo" and that password as well as root and that
>password.
>Is there something else I need to do ?
>Ringo
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Ale mailing list
>Ale at ale.org
>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
>  
>


From mpwright at speedfactory.net  Thu Jan 27 22:35:59 2005
From: mpwright at speedfactory.net (Mark Wright)
Date: Thu Jan 27 22:35:59 2005
Subject: [ale] accessing my linux box from a windows machine
In-Reply-To: <03f601c504e8$ea2a6d60$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
References: <03f601c504e8$ea2a6d60$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
Message-ID: <17A0B508-70DD-11D9-A7F0-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>

You have to add your windows id to your smbpassword file.  I think the 
command was (as root) smbpasswd -a username

Mark


Ut sementem feceris ita metes


On Jan 27, 2005, at 10:24 PM, ringo wrote:

> I have a network in m home and would like to access my linux box to 
> copy
> files. If I go to Network neighborhood I see:
> Groups on Samba 3.0.7-5-SUSE(linux)
> profiles on Samba 3.0.7-5-SUSE(linux)
> users on Samba 3.0.7-5-SUSE(linux)
>
> No matter which one I click it asks me for a logon and password. I've
> tried my normal login "ringo" and that password as well as root and 
> that
> password.
> Is there something else I need to do ?
> Ringo
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
>

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From ringo at margaritasrus.com  Thu Jan 27 22:39:50 2005
From: ringo at margaritasrus.com (ringo)
Date: Thu Jan 27 22:39:50 2005
Subject: [ale] accessing my linux box from a windows machine
In-Reply-To: <41F9AF95.4070801@bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <040601c504ea$604721e0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>

As my user it asked for old password then new password, then said
Machine 127.0.0.1 rejected the anonymous password change: Error was : No
such user.

As root it just asked for a new password then :
Failed to find entry for user root.
Failed to midify the password entry for user root.

How do I set up a user?

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Mark
Angeli
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 10:21 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] accessing my linux box from a windows machine

On your linux box, you have to add a samba user and password.

I believe the command is smbpasswd

Mark
http://linuxfoo.org


ringo wrote:

>I have a network in m home and would like to access my linux box to
copy
>files. If I go to Network neighborhood I see:
>Groups on Samba 3.0.7-5-SUSE(linux)
>profiles on Samba 3.0.7-5-SUSE(linux)
>users on Samba 3.0.7-5-SUSE(linux)
>
>No matter which one I click it asks me for a logon and password. I've
>tried my normal login "ringo" and that password as well as root and
that
>password.
>Is there something else I need to do ?
>Ringo
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Ale mailing list
>Ale at ale.org
>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
>  
>

_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale




From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Thu Jan 27 22:41:22 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Thu Jan 27 22:41:22 2005
Subject: [ale] brain damaged perl DBI
Message-ID: <1106883388.16329.238.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>

This *&%*^ chunk of perl is not returning anything from the database. Is
there something stupid I have missed (The data is there. A psql query
return two lines which is correct. It does connect to the database as I
copied the connection params from another working area).

# connect to database
  my $dbh = $form->dbconnect($myconfig);
  my $id_start = $form->{id};
  my @clone_list;
  my %clone_test;
  push @clone_list, $id_start;
  $clone_test{$id_start} = 1;
  foreach my $id (@clone_list){
    my $query = qq|SELECT id 
       FROM assembly  
       WHERE parts_id = $id|;
    my $sth = $dbh->prepare($query);
    $sth->execute || $form->dberror($query);
    my $ref;
    while ($ref = $sth->fetchrow_arrayref){
      my $cloneid = [ @$ref ];
      if ((! $clone_test{$cloneid}) && ($cloneid !~ $id_start)){
        push @clone_list, $cloneid;
        $clone_test{$cloneid}=1;
      }
    }
    $sth->finish;
  }
  $dbh->disconnect;
  open (OUT, ">/tmp/out.IC")||die "$!\n";
  my $line = join ', ', @clone_list;
  print OUT "clone_list = $line\n";
  close OUT;
  push @{ $form->{clone_list}}, @clone_list;


The file /tmp/out.IC gets only "clone_list = 0" ?!?!?!

I added prints to the while ($ref.....) block and got nothing. If I add
a die in the while block, it dies at that point. so I know it's running.

-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From ringo at margaritasrus.com  Thu Jan 27 22:47:13 2005
From: ringo at margaritasrus.com (ringo)
Date: Thu Jan 27 22:47:13 2005
Subject: [ale] accessing my linux box from a windows machine
In-Reply-To: <040601c504ea$604721e0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
Message-ID: <042101c504eb$6756e1e0$bb00a8c0@Ringo>

Thanks, I got it. I did a pdbedit -a ringo
Thanks again
Ringo


-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
ringo
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 10:35 PM
To: 'Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts'
Subject: RE: [ale] accessing my linux box from a windows machine

As my user it asked for old password then new password, then said
Machine 127.0.0.1 rejected the anonymous password change: Error was : No
such user.

As root it just asked for a new password then :
Failed to find entry for user root.
Failed to midify the password entry for user root.

How do I set up a user?

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Mark
Angeli
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 10:21 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] accessing my linux box from a windows machine

On your linux box, you have to add a samba user and password.

I believe the command is smbpasswd

Mark
http://linuxfoo.org


ringo wrote:

>I have a network in m home and would like to access my linux box to
copy
>files. If I go to Network neighborhood I see:
>Groups on Samba 3.0.7-5-SUSE(linux)
>profiles on Samba 3.0.7-5-SUSE(linux)
>users on Samba 3.0.7-5-SUSE(linux)
>
>No matter which one I click it asks me for a logon and password. I've
>tried my normal login "ringo" and that password as well as root and
that
>password.
>Is there something else I need to do ?
>Ringo
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Ale mailing list
>Ale at ale.org
>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
>  
>

_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale



_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale




From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Thu Jan 27 23:33:17 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Thu Jan 27 23:33:17 2005
Subject: [ale] brain damaged perl DBI
In-Reply-To: <1106883388.16329.238.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
References: <1106883388.16329.238.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <1106886492.16329.241.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>

Nevermind. A brainfart caused the form->{id} value to be incorrect thus
the db code worked perfectly. It returned nothing.

Arrggh.

On Thu, 2005-01-27 at 22:36 -0500, James P. Kinney III wrote:
> This *&%*^ chunk of perl is not returning anything from the database. Is
> there something stupid I have missed (The data is there. A psql query
> return two lines which is correct. It does connect to the database as I
> copied the connection params from another working area).
> 
> # connect to database
>   my $dbh = $form->dbconnect($myconfig);
>   my $id_start = $form->{id};
>   my @clone_list;
>   my %clone_test;
>   push @clone_list, $id_start;
>   $clone_test{$id_start} = 1;
>   foreach my $id (@clone_list){
>     my $query = qq|SELECT id 
>        FROM assembly  
>        WHERE parts_id = $id|;
>     my $sth = $dbh->prepare($query);
>     $sth->execute || $form->dberror($query);
>     my $ref;
>     while ($ref = $sth->fetchrow_arrayref){
>       my $cloneid = [ @$ref ];
>       if ((! $clone_test{$cloneid}) && ($cloneid !~ $id_start)){
>         push @clone_list, $cloneid;
>         $clone_test{$cloneid}=1;
>       }
>     }
>     $sth->finish;
>   }
>   $dbh->disconnect;
>   open (OUT, ">/tmp/out.IC")||die "$!\n";
>   my $line = join ', ', @clone_list;
>   print OUT "clone_list = $line\n";
>   close OUT;
>   push @{ $form->{clone_list}}, @clone_list;
> 
> 
> The file /tmp/out.IC gets only "clone_list = 0" ?!?!?!
> 
> I added prints to the while ($ref.....) block and got nothing. If I add
> a die in the while block, it dies at that point. so I know it's running.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> !DSPAM:41f9b37396931623319817!
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From aaron at pd.org  Fri Jan 28 00:46:55 2005
From: aaron at pd.org (aaron)
Date: Fri Jan 28 00:46:55 2005
Subject: [ale] Problem Installing Suse 9.2
In-Reply-To: <7176880.1106841228108.JavaMail.root@wamui04.slb.atl.earthlink.net>
References: <7176880.1106841228108.JavaMail.root@wamui04.slb.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <200501271736.00196.aaron@pd.org>

On Thursday 27 January 2005 10:53, Dow_Hurst wrote:
> This is a problem that has cropped up with certain DVD drives.
>  In fact a whole set of Dell DVD drives in their laptop line shipped
>  with this problem.  SuSE's DVD will get to the point where you should
>  be able to configure software and then error's out.  Just switch to a
>  different DVD drive and you should get around the problem.
>  Or use the CD's instead.
> Dow

Thanks for the tip. It could well be the DVD drive... the box in question is a 
$50 salvage operation of an eXpired eMachine. The eMotherboard was eDOA with 
intermittent power connector problems (and yes I re-soldered it and no it 
didn't help), so the Memory, HD, CD Burner, Modem, eNet card and, with a 
little Dremel tool face plate adjustment, the DVD player all migrated to a 
newly used MoBo in a more standard case.

I'm burning another copy of the ISO now. If that doesn't make a difference, 
I'll try the alternative DVD drive suggestion. Your tip prompted a little web 
research, but the problem you are referring to may have more to do with the 
fact that the boxed SuSE 9.2 install DVD is Dual Layered. Still, given the 
symptoms, the player is a likely a potential failure point.

DVD technology is _so_ lacking in standards and reliability.

I will add that I'm finding the SuSE 9.2 install interface is certainly nice, 
so I'm anxious to see how the rest of the SuSE environment has progressed.
My biggest concern was that the DVD-FTP iso posted at ftp.ale.org wasn't 
complete or is just an eval version; something I don't want to waste my time 
with. 

peace
aaron



> -----Original Message-----
> From: aaron <aaron at pd.org>
> Sent: Jan 27, 2005 5:05 AM
> To: ALE <ale at ale.org>
> Subject: [ale] Problem Installing Suse 9.2 
> 
> 
> I am in the process of guiding a friend into Linux land in setting up the 
> computer that was donated for use in his volunteer work with a youth group. 
> The system will be used for basic internet and office applications.
> 
> I was leaning toward a Mandrake 10.1 install as the best "desktop for 
newbie" 
> distro choice, but thought I would use the opportunity to scope out the 
> current Suse offerings and grabbed the 9.2-FTP-DVD.iso (2004.10.22) from 
> ftp.ale.org.
> 
> Booting from the DVD, the YaST install process gets through the basics and 
> recognizes the system hardware, displaying a nice browser style screen of 
> useful installation details, like how it's going to automagically resize the 
> existing windblows Miserable Excuse partion.
> 
> What YaST is NOT finding is the installation software package lists that one 
> would expect to be on the DVD.
> 
> I'm beginning to question if this is a complete install disk or if I'm 
missing 
> something. The Readme accompanying the .iso files isn't offering any info on 
> this.  I can see a directory of ".sel" package selection list files when I 
> look at the DVD on other systems, but I can't seem to navigate to them from 
> inside the installation screens and the package manager.
> 
> Any helpful info or ideas??
> 
> peace
> aaron
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> 
> No sig.
> 
> 



From audilover at speedfactory.net  Fri Jan 28 02:18:27 2005
From: audilover at speedfactory.net (Raylynn Knight)
Date: Fri Jan 28 02:18:27 2005
Subject: [ale] OT Speedfactory Problems Anyone?
In-Reply-To: <005e01c5049b$24494230$0a00a8c0@atlas>
References: <005e01c5049b$24494230$0a00a8c0@atlas>
Message-ID: <1106895064.28445.8.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>

When did Speedfactory start using PPPOE crap.  I'm pretty sure my link
is not using PPPOE (unless they're handling it in the DSL Modem).  Or
does the fact that I pay for multiple static IP's keep me from suffering
from PPPOE usage?


On Thu, 2005-01-27 at 13:08 -0500, Greg wrote:
> Per a call to Speedfactory it was a BellSouth problem with all PPPOE users -
> Earthlink as well as Speedfactory.
> 
> Greg
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org]On Behalf Of
> Nathan J. Underwood
> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 12:40 PM
> To: ale1 at cybertechcafe.net; Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [ale] OT Speedfactory Problems Anyone?
> 
> 
> And now it seems to be back up.
> --
> registered linux user # 73046
> 
> Nathan J. Underwood
> Cyber Tech Cafe' <><
> http://www.cybertechcafe.net
> 
> Nathan J. Underwood wrote:
> > Is anyone else having problems with their Speedfactory xDSL?  I've got 3
> > locations that are down (all Speedfactory).  Am I just that unlucky, or
> > is everyone having trouble?
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 


From jknapka at kneuro.net  Fri Jan 28 03:18:36 2005
From: jknapka at kneuro.net (Joe Knapka)
Date: Fri Jan 28 03:18:36 2005
Subject: [ale] Why LISP? (was Why Ruby?)
In-Reply-To: <fc.00249f0f237b8a7400249f0f237b8a74.237ba63b@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>
References: <fc.00249f0f237b8a7400249f0f237b8a74.237ba63b@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>
Message-ID: <m37jlyvxeu.fsf@telzey.localdomain>

"John P. Healey" <jpheale at LearnLink.Emory.Edu> writes:

> If I'm writing a throwaway script, i'll usually use python.  If I'm trying to
> make a web interface to a database, I'll use PHP.  But for any substantial
> programming task, I've yet to find any language that can match the power of
> lisp.

Agreed, but there's one thing Lisp lacks, in my experience (which
I admit is not very extensive):

A truly comprehensive and, most importantly, easy-to-use standard
library that covers all the basic tasks one might need in modern
application development. Specifically, networking and UI programming
are not dealt with well in a standard and portable way, as far as I
can tell. I'm sure there are specific Lisp implementations that handle
such tasks well, but for the ones I can afford (read "free"), the
state-of-the-Lisp-art in portable UI programming seems to be on the
order of crude wrappers around an embedded Tcl interpreter!  Arguments
that Tcl is a dialect of Lisp aside, this is not a groovy state of
affairs, in my opinion anyway. Also, the set of Lisp compilers that
implements any given subset of the CL spec seems always to have
size <= 1, which makes writing truly portable code kind of
difficult.

Though there is Armed Bear Common Lisp, which runs on the JVM, and
makes the Java stdlib available in what appears to be a fairly
transparent way. I haven't investigated that too far yet.

Anyway, an entire generation of programmers -- maybe two -- has been
ruined for Lisp-like languages by the likes of Java.  Sigh.  Python is
the new Lisp, Java is the new Cobol.

Cheers,

-- Joe

-- 
No sig for you today.
--
pub  1024D/BA496D2B 2004-05-14 Joseph A Knapka
     Key fingerprint = 3BA2 FE72 3CBA D4C2 21E4  C9B4 3230 94D7 BA49 6D2B
If you really want to get my attention, send mail to
jknapka .at. kneuro .dot. net.


From jknapka at kneuro.net  Fri Jan 28 03:34:02 2005
From: jknapka at kneuro.net (Joe Knapka)
Date: Fri Jan 28 03:34:02 2005
Subject: [ale] Why LISP? (was Why Ruby?)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0501270910120.7899-100000@metric.it.uab.edu>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0501270910120.7899-100000@metric.it.uab.edu>
Message-ID: <m33bwmvwo3.fsf@telzey.localdomain>

Aditya Srinivasan <sriad at uab.edu> writes:

> Hi,
> 
> On Thu, 27 Jan 2005, John P. Healey wrote:
> 
> > I think the main thing I like about Lisp is that it's absolutely nothing like
> > perl, smalltalk, c, python, or java.  Whenever I sit down to try and write
> > something in lisp the way i would normally write it in {insert language here},
> > i find that lisp manages to accurately embody my ideas in the jumbled mess of
> > thought that they truly are.  At that point, I usually throw away whatever i've
> > written and rewrite a working copy in a tenth of the amount of code, simply by
> > abstracting it properly with macros.
> 
> I am interested in learning the functional programming paradigm.
> Are there any particular resources online/books you would recommend ?
> Also any advice about choosing one amongst LISP/Scheme ?

Why limit your options to Lisp and Scheme? (Though those are both good
languages to know.)  In fact, writing non-functional code in Lisp is
quite easy, so it's not necessarily a good choice for learning FP.

Haskell <http://www.haskell.org> is a truly beautiful,
purely-functional language (no side-effects). It's very different from
Lisp or Scheme, or any other language I know, come to think of it.

O'Caml <http://www.ocaml.org/> seems to be the Perl of FP. IIRC, it's
ML with OO extensions; ML was one of the very first functional
languages (possibly the very first, I'm not sure). Like Lisp, it
permits side effects. I have written a tiny bit of O'Caml code, but
the syntax is gross; I like Haskell better.

If you want something more traditional-looking, there's also SAC
(Single-Assignment C) <http://www.sac-home.org>, an
(almost?)-purely-functional derivative of C that seems to do a very
good job of appearing C-like while actually being side-effect free.

Cheers,

-- Joe

-- 
"Meet the new boss / Same as the old boss..." -- The Who
... Oh well, at least there's 2008.
--
pub  1024D/BA496D2B 2004-05-14 Joseph A Knapka
     Key fingerprint = 3BA2 FE72 3CBA D4C2 21E4  C9B4 3230 94D7 BA49 6D2B
If you really want to get my attention, send mail to
jknapka .at. kneuro .dot. net.


From runman at speedfactory.net  Fri Jan 28 06:06:16 2005
From: runman at speedfactory.net (Greg)
Date: Fri Jan 28 06:06:16 2005
Subject: [ale] OT Speedfactory Problems Anyone?
In-Reply-To: <1106895064.28445.8.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
Message-ID: <009a01c50528$b8341960$0a00a8c0@atlas>

I have 1 static IP with Speedfactory and when I upgraded my service to
something faster (for free) I had to go to PPPoE.  I was told that
*everyone* (other ISP's included) was being forced to do this since Bell
South was giving discounts on greater bandwidth to those who went to PPPoE
and Speedfactory had to go along to be competitive.  If you upgrade to the
faster speeds (for free for me and others who got grandfathered in) then you
can only do this on PPPoE.  They said it was "the wave of the future" for
all ISPs.  Yes, I know.  I cringed when this happened.  The tech I spoke to
said it was "better" for them (I'm guessing he owned Bell South stock or is
an idiot) and was very reliable and "easier to manage" for "them".

I don't know - I'm not a Sys Admin at that level but my research on those
who are at that level seemed to be that the majority of Sys Admins thought
PPPoE was crap compared to the old way of Speedfactory's doing things.
Other than a much weirder & more involved configuration on my firewall(s)
and DSL modem I haven't noticed any difference.  But I still feel that the
old way was better.  Just my opinion.

Once again Bell South to the rescue.  I think Geoffrey is correct in his
opinion of Bell South.

Greg

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org]On Behalf Of
Raylynn Knight
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 1:51 AM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: RE: [ale] OT Speedfactory Problems Anyone?


When did Speedfactory start using PPPOE crap.  I'm pretty sure my link
is not using PPPOE (unless they're handling it in the DSL Modem).  Or
does the fact that I pay for multiple static IP's keep me from suffering
from PPPOE usage?


On Thu, 2005-01-27 at 13:08 -0500, Greg wrote:
> Per a call to Speedfactory it was a BellSouth problem with all PPPOE
users -
> Earthlink as well as Speedfactory.
>
> Greg
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org]On Behalf Of
> Nathan J. Underwood
> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 12:40 PM
> To: ale1 at cybertechcafe.net; Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [ale] OT Speedfactory Problems Anyone?
>
>
> And now it seems to be back up.
> --
> registered linux user # 73046
>
> Nathan J. Underwood
> Cyber Tech Cafe' <><
> http://www.cybertechcafe.net
>
> Nathan J. Underwood wrote:
> > Is anyone else having problems with their Speedfactory xDSL?  I've got 3
> > locations that are down (all Speedfactory).  Am I just that unlucky, or
> > is everyone having trouble?
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>

_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Fri Jan 28 06:23:16 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Fri Jan 28 06:23:16 2005
Subject: [ale] Problem Installing Suse 9.2
In-Reply-To: <200501271736.00196.aaron@pd.org>
References: <7176880.1106841228108.JavaMail.root@wamui04.slb.atl.earthlink.net>
	<200501271736.00196.aaron@pd.org>
Message-ID: <41FA1F8B.3070306@3times25.net>

aaron wrote:

> I'm burning another copy of the ISO now. If that doesn't make a difference, 
> I'll try the alternative DVD drive suggestion. Your tip prompted a little web 
> research, but the problem you are referring to may have more to do with the 
> fact that the boxed SuSE 9.2 install DVD is Dual Layered. Still, given the 
> symptoms, the player is a likely a potential failure point.

I don't think this will have anything to do with it.  Didn't you 
download this iso?  I built an iso of the boxed version, and you are 
correct, it is dual layer, and is >7gig, thus I was not able to make a 
copy of it.  The download version, as I understand it, does not have the 
64 bit goodies, thus it's small enough to fit on a standard dvd.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Fri Jan 28 06:29:33 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Fri Jan 28 06:29:33 2005
Subject: [ale] Getting Linux OS to boot
In-Reply-To: <1106880263.13524.213763218@webmail.messagingengine.com>
References: <20050128013220.81399.qmail@web54407.mail.yahoo.com>	<41F998B4.9030702@3times25.net>
	<1106880263.13524.213763218@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <41FA2103.8090202@3times25.net>

Trey Sizemore wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 20:43:16 -0500, "Geoffrey" <esoteric at 3times25.net>
> said:
> 
>>Jerald Sheets wrote:
>>
>>>I've got a tiny XP partition, Soalris 10, Fedora 3,
>>>and in a few moments (gesturing wildly at screen)
>>>Ubuntu.
>>
>>Remember the box I brought to Lisa?  It had:
>>
>>FC1,
>>FC2,
>>Mandrake 10.1,
>>Suse 9.0,
>>Suse 9.1
>>Sun Java desktop,
>>Lindows,
>>Xandros
>>
>>I think that was all of them. :)
>>
> 
> Woof!  One disk, two disks?  I'd be curious to see your grub.conf or
> menu.list.

It really was just a study in 'can I do this.'  It was one 80 gig drive, 
thus I had 10 gig per distro. It's since long gone as I've restored the 
machine for another purpose.

I do have a couple of tri-boot machines that I'd be glad to share the 
menu.lst of if you'd like.  What the hey, here is one.  You'll note the 
copyright at the top indicating it's (a modified version) from Emperor 
Linux.  Just remembered, this actually has four entries.  SuSE 9.2, RHWS 
with two different kernels and Winxp.

#
#       copyright 1999-2003 Lincoln D. Durey <www.EmperorLinux.com> GNU-GPL
#       Gazelle GRX500 grub.conf  kern:2419,RedHat  Linux/Win dual-boot 
(MBR)
#
 

# Note that you do not have to rerun grub after making changes to this file
# NOTICE:  You do not have a /boot partition.  This means that
#          all kernel and initrd paths are relative to /, eg.
 

default 0
timeout 15
# splashimage (hd0,5)/usr/share/emperor/emp_splash.xpm.gz
# default saved
 

title   RedHat Linux Enterprise Workstation 3 with 2.6 kernel
 

root    (hd0,5)
         kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.8.1-emp1\
         root=/dev/hda6 ro\
         vga=795\
         apm=off \
         acpi-=on
         # hdc=ide-scsi\

title   RedHat Linux Enterprise Workstation 3
# savedefault
         # kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.4.21-9.EL ro\

root    (hd0,5)
         kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.4.24-emp_2424sw\
         root=/dev/hda6 ro\
         hdc=ide-scsi\
         vga=795\
         apm=off

# new SuSE 9.0 install
title SuSE 9.0 2.4.21
root (hd0,7)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz \
root=/dev/hda8 ro \
hdc=ide-scsi \
vga=792 \
apm=off

# the MSFT partition
title   A Microsoft Virus
         rootnoverify (hd0,0)
         chainloader +1

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Fri Jan 28 06:32:06 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Fri Jan 28 06:32:06 2005
Subject: [ale] accessing my linux box from a windows machine
In-Reply-To: <17A0B508-70DD-11D9-A7F0-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>
References: <03f601c504e8$ea2a6d60$bb00a8c0@Ringo>
	<17A0B508-70DD-11D9-A7F0-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <41FA2190.2090200@3times25.net>

Mark Wright wrote:
> You have to add your windows id to your smbpassword file.  I think the 
> command was (as root) smbpasswd -a username

You need the id in both the smbpassword file and the /etc/passwd file. 
You are correct in how you add it above.  You'll then want to set the 
password.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Fri Jan 28 06:34:29 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Fri Jan 28 06:34:29 2005
Subject: [ale] brain damaged perl DBI
In-Reply-To: <1106883388.16329.238.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
References: <1106883388.16329.238.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <41FA21E9.8090704@3times25.net>

James P. Kinney III wrote:
> This *&%*^ chunk of perl is not returning anything from the database. Is
> there something stupid I have missed (The data is there. A psql query
> return two lines which is correct. It does connect to the database as I
> copied the connection params from another working area).
> 
> # connect to database
>   my $dbh = $form->dbconnect($myconfig);
>   my $id_start = $form->{id};
>   my @clone_list;
>   my %clone_test;
>   push @clone_list, $id_start;
>   $clone_test{$id_start} = 1;
>   foreach my $id (@clone_list){
>     my $query = qq|SELECT id 
>        FROM assembly  
>        WHERE parts_id = $id|;

I believe you'll need single quotes around $id above.

>     my $sth = $dbh->prepare($query);
>     $sth->execute || $form->dberror($query);
>     my $ref;
>     while ($ref = $sth->fetchrow_arrayref){
>       my $cloneid = [ @$ref ];
>       if ((! $clone_test{$cloneid}) && ($cloneid !~ $id_start)){
>         push @clone_list, $cloneid;
>         $clone_test{$cloneid}=1;
>       }
>     }
>     $sth->finish;
>   }
>   $dbh->disconnect;
>   open (OUT, ">/tmp/out.IC")||die "$!\n";
>   my $line = join ', ', @clone_list;
>   print OUT "clone_list = $line\n";
>   close OUT;
>   push @{ $form->{clone_list}}, @clone_list;
> 
> 
> The file /tmp/out.IC gets only "clone_list = 0" ?!?!?!
> 
> I added prints to the while ($ref.....) block and got nothing. If I add
> a die in the while block, it dies at that point. so I know it's running.
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Fri Jan 28 06:57:04 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Fri Jan 28 06:57:04 2005
Subject: [ale] OT Speedfactory Problems Anyone?
In-Reply-To: <1106895064.28445.8.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
References: <005e01c5049b$24494230$0a00a8c0@atlas>
	<1106895064.28445.8.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
Message-ID: <41FA2770.5070400@3times25.net>

Raylynn Knight wrote:
> When did Speedfactory start using PPPOE crap.  I'm pretty sure my link
> is not using PPPOE (unless they're handling it in the DSL Modem).  Or
> does the fact that I pay for multiple static IP's keep me from suffering
> from PPPOE usage?

All the fiber dsl service is pppoe.  I was not pppoe and opted for it in 
order to get the higher speed.  I've still got a static ip.  Since going 
that route, I've not had any problems.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Fri Jan 28 07:03:21 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Fri Jan 28 07:03:21 2005
Subject: [ale] OT Speedfactory Problems Anyone?
In-Reply-To: <009a01c50528$b8341960$0a00a8c0@atlas>
References: <009a01c50528$b8341960$0a00a8c0@atlas>
Message-ID: <41FA28F1.70806@3times25.net>

Greg wrote:
> I have 1 static IP with Speedfactory and when I upgraded my service to
> something faster (for free) I had to go to PPPoE.  I was told that
> *everyone* (other ISP's included) was being forced to do this since Bell
> South was giving discounts on greater bandwidth to those who went to PPPoE
> and Speedfactory had to go along to be competitive.  If you upgrade to the
> faster speeds (for free for me and others who got grandfathered in) then you
> can only do this on PPPoE.  They said it was "the wave of the future" for
> all ISPs.  Yes, I know.  I cringed when this happened.  The tech I spoke to
> said it was "better" for them (I'm guessing he owned Bell South stock or is
> an idiot) and was very reliable and "easier to manage" for "them".
> 
> I don't know - I'm not a Sys Admin at that level but my research on those
> who are at that level seemed to be that the majority of Sys Admins thought
> PPPoE was crap compared to the old way of Speedfactory's doing things.
> Other than a much weirder & more involved configuration on my firewall(s)
> and DSL modem I haven't noticed any difference.  But I still feel that the
> old way was better.  Just my opinion.
> 
> Once again Bell South to the rescue.  I think Geoffrey is correct in his
> opinion of Bell South.

Pretty much the same line I got.  The main issue I have with pppoe is 
that you're adding yet another process into the whole system.  One more 
thing to break and one more thing to eat up cpu on the firewall.

That being said, I've not see any differences other then the higher 
speed which required me to get the pppoe.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From ctechols at mindspring.com  Fri Jan 28 07:59:18 2005
From: ctechols at mindspring.com (Cory T. Echols)
Date: Fri Jan 28 07:59:18 2005
Subject: [ale] Why LISP? (was Why Ruby?)
In-Reply-To: <m37jlyvxeu.fsf@telzey.localdomain>
References: <fc.00249f0f237b8a7400249f0f237b8a74.237ba63b@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>
	<m37jlyvxeu.fsf@telzey.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20050128125407.GA11952@localhost>

On 01/28, Joe Knapka wrote:
> Agreed, but there's one thing Lisp lacks, in my experience (which
> I admit is not very extensive):
> 
> A truly comprehensive and, most importantly, easy-to-use standard
> library that covers all the basic tasks one might need in modern
> application development.

Debian (in testing) provides a large number of Lisp libraries.  There's
even an implementation of CLIM (the cross platform user-interface
toolkit for lisp), though it doesn't seem to link to qt or gtk, so I
doubt it's any prettier that Tk wrappers.

It's nowhere near as comprehensive as CPAN, but anyone wanting to play
around with Lisp has a good head start if they're using Debian.

-- 
Cory T. Echols


From evanwieren at gmail.com  Fri Jan 28 08:13:15 2005
From: evanwieren at gmail.com (Eric VanWieren)
Date: Fri Jan 28 08:13:15 2005
Subject: [ale] Problem Installing Suse 9.2
In-Reply-To: <41FA1F8B.3070306@3times25.net>
References: <7176880.1106841228108.JavaMail.root@wamui04.slb.atl.earthlink.net>
	<200501271736.00196.aaron@pd.org> <41FA1F8B.3070306@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <18de987705012805087b17470e@mail.gmail.com>

I have the distro on cd if you would prefer that. It is a number of
cd's, but hey, it works.

Eric


On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 06:18:35 -0500, Geoffrey <esoteric at 3times25.net> wrote:
> aaron wrote:
> 
> > I'm burning another copy of the ISO now. If that doesn't make a difference,
> > I'll try the alternative DVD drive suggestion. Your tip prompted a little web
> > research, but the problem you are referring to may have more to do with the
> > fact that the boxed SuSE 9.2 install DVD is Dual Layered. Still, given the
> > symptoms, the player is a likely a potential failure point.
> 
> I don't think this will have anything to do with it.  Didn't you
> download this iso?  I built an iso of the boxed version, and you are
> correct, it is dual layer, and is >7gig, thus I was not able to make a
> copy of it.  The download version, as I understand it, does not have the
> 64 bit goodies, thus it's small enough to fit on a standard dvd.
> 
> --
> Until later, Geoffrey
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>


From protocoljunkie at gmail.com  Fri Jan 28 08:30:18 2005
From: protocoljunkie at gmail.com (M Raju)
Date: Fri Jan 28 08:30:18 2005
Subject: [ale] OT Speedfactory Problems Anyone?
In-Reply-To: <1106895064.28445.8.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
References: <005e01c5049b$24494230$0a00a8c0@atlas>
	<1106895064.28445.8.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
Message-ID: <64162eed05012805256c826d0b@mail.gmail.com>

I use SpeedFactory at home and also two additional circuits at work
for DMZ purposes. They all went down yesterday, but seem to be
available at the moment. According to SpeedFactory support, they are
having "problems" with the upstream provider (probably BellSouth if I
am not surprised or maybe Qwest?).

PPPoE simply sucks no matter how you look at it. SpeedFactory does not
use timeouts on their RADIUS servers, like BellSouth does, hence the
ability provide anyone "guaranteed" uptime and static IPs.  According
to Darryl at SpeedFactory, PVC provisioning is much costly to them,
compared to PPPoE with no timeouts which provides a pseudo dedicated
circuit to customers...

As far as performance goes, I recently switched from userland to
in-kernel PPPoE on my OpenBSD Firewalls. This seemed to have helped a
little...

_Raju


On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 01:51:04 -0500, Raylynn Knight
<audilover at speedfactory.net> wrote:
> When did Speedfactory start using PPPOE crap.  I'm pretty sure my link
> is not using PPPOE (unless they're handling it in the DSL Modem).  Or
> does the fact that I pay for multiple static IP's keep me from suffering
> from PPPOE usage?
> 
> 
> On Thu, 2005-01-27 at 13:08 -0500, Greg wrote:
> > Per a call to Speedfactory it was a BellSouth problem with all PPPOE users -
> > Earthlink as well as Speedfactory.
> >
> > Greg
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org]On Behalf Of
> > Nathan J. Underwood
> > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 12:40 PM
> > To: ale1 at cybertechcafe.net; Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> > Subject: Re: [ale] OT Speedfactory Problems Anyone?
> >
> >
> > And now it seems to be back up.
> > --
> > registered linux user # 73046
> >
> > Nathan J. Underwood
> > Cyber Tech Cafe' <><
> > http://www.cybertechcafe.net
> >
> > Nathan J. Underwood wrote:
> > > Is anyone else having problems with their Speedfactory xDSL?  I've got 3
> > > locations that are down (all Speedfactory).  Am I just that unlucky, or
> > > is everyone having trouble?
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 


-- 
May the packets be with you.


From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Fri Jan 28 08:39:35 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Fri Jan 28 08:39:35 2005
Subject: [ale] brain damaged perl DBI
In-Reply-To: <41FA21E9.8090704@3times25.net>
References: <1106883388.16329.238.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
	<41FA21E9.8090704@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <1106919297.16329.243.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>

On Fri, 2005-01-28 at 06:28 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> James P. Kinney III wrote:
> > This *&%*^ chunk of perl is not returning anything from the database. Is
> > there something stupid I have missed (The data is there. A psql query
> > return two lines which is correct. It does connect to the database as I
> > copied the connection params from another working area).
> > 
> > # connect to database
> >   my $dbh = $form->dbconnect($myconfig);
> >   my $id_start = $form->{id};
> >   my @clone_list;
> >   my %clone_test;
> >   push @clone_list, $id_start;
> >   $clone_test{$id_start} = 1;
> >   foreach my $id (@clone_list){
> >     my $query = qq|SELECT id 
> >        FROM assembly  
> >        WHERE parts_id = $id|;
> 
> I believe you'll need single quotes around $id above.

It helps even more if $id != NULL

DOH!
> 
> >     my $sth = $dbh->prepare($query);
> >     $sth->execute || $form->dberror($query);
> >     my $ref;
> >     while ($ref = $sth->fetchrow_arrayref){
> >       my $cloneid = [ @$ref ];
> >       if ((! $clone_test{$cloneid}) && ($cloneid !~ $id_start)){
> >         push @clone_list, $cloneid;
> >         $clone_test{$cloneid}=1;
> >       }
> >     }
> >     $sth->finish;
> >   }
> >   $dbh->disconnect;
> >   open (OUT, ">/tmp/out.IC")||die "$!\n";
> >   my $line = join ', ', @clone_list;
> >   print OUT "clone_list = $line\n";
> >   close OUT;
> >   push @{ $form->{clone_list}}, @clone_list;
> > 
> > 
> > The file /tmp/out.IC gets only "clone_list = 0" ?!?!?!
> > 
> > I added prints to the while ($ref.....) block and got nothing. If I add
> > a die in the while block, it dies at that point. so I know it's running.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> 
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From esoteric at 3times25.net  Fri Jan 28 09:02:35 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Fri Jan 28 09:02:35 2005
Subject: [ale] brain damaged perl DBI
In-Reply-To: <1106919297.16329.243.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
References: <1106883388.16329.238.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>	<41FA21E9.8090704@3times25.net>
	<1106919297.16329.243.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <41FA44E7.3010005@3times25.net>

James P. Kinney III wrote:
> On Fri, 2005-01-28 at 06:28 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> 
>>James P. Kinney III wrote:
>>
>>>This *&%*^ chunk of perl is not returning anything from the database. Is
>>>there something stupid I have missed (The data is there. A psql query
>>>return two lines which is correct. It does connect to the database as I
>>>copied the connection params from another working area).
>>>
>>># connect to database
>>>  my $dbh = $form->dbconnect($myconfig);
>>>  my $id_start = $form->{id};
>>>  my @clone_list;
>>>  my %clone_test;
>>>  push @clone_list, $id_start;
>>>  $clone_test{$id_start} = 1;
>>>  foreach my $id (@clone_list){
>>>    my $query = qq|SELECT id 
>>>       FROM assembly  
>>>       WHERE parts_id = $id|;
>>
>>I believe you'll need single quotes around $id above.
> 
> 
> It helps even more if $id != NULL

Well, that will never locate anything. :)


-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Fri Jan 28 09:18:40 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Fri Jan 28 09:18:40 2005
Subject: [ale] brain damaged perl DBI
In-Reply-To: <41FA44E7.3010005@3times25.net>
References: <1106883388.16329.238.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
	<41FA21E9.8090704@3times25.net>
	<1106919297.16329.243.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
	<41FA44E7.3010005@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <1106921628.16329.249.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>

On Fri, 2005-01-28 at 08:57 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:

> > 
> > It helps even more if $id != NULL
> 
> Well, that will never locate anything. :)

I had the test bit set in the module that feeds the form hash to the db
block. The last test (before dinner, ah ha! found the engineering
stupid. coding while hungry) was a null test on the $id.

So my lesson here is rerun the last test after a break before proceeding
to the next sequence.

Or maybe it's eat more while coding.
> 
> 
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
-------------- next part --------------
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From mhirsch at nubridges.com  Fri Jan 28 09:26:40 2005
From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael Hirsch)
Date: Fri Jan 28 09:26:40 2005
Subject: [ale] Getting Linux OS to boot
Message-ID: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CE6D@germanium.numethods.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
Trey
> Sizemore
> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 5:29 PM
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> Subject: RE: [ale] Getting Linux OS to boot
> 
> On Thu, 2005-01-27 at 17:07 -0500, Michael Hirsch wrote:
> > You really want to switch to grub--especially if you are booting
> > multiple OSes.  With grub, if you get it wrong you can still use the
> > command line to figure it out at boot time.  (I did this just
yesterday
> > when we were having boot problems.)  With lilo any time you upgrade
the
> > kernel you have to rerun lilo.  So if you are using mandrake's lilo
> > setup and you upgrade your SuSE kernel, how are you going to run
> > mandrakes lilo install?
> >
> > Grub is just a simple text file.  You install it once and edit the
file.
> > No danger of rendering your system unbootable by forgetting to rerun
it.
> > And even if you mess up the config file, you can always edit it at
boot
> > time to get your system running again.
> >
> > Michael
> 
> Sounds good.  I'll just need to play around and figure how to change
the
> boot loader to grub.

Generally it is something like grub-install /dev/hdb

Michael



From mhirsch at nubridges.com  Fri Jan 28 10:19:00 2005
From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael Hirsch)
Date: Fri Jan 28 10:19:00 2005
Subject: [ale] Py[h]hon syntax (sic)
Message-ID: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CE86@germanium.numethods.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
> Christopher Fowler
> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 6:07 PM
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [ale] Py[h]hon syntax (sic)
> 
> Here is my WIP code.   I'm converting an agent I wrote in perl that
> checks the database for our embedded devices in the field.  It then
does
> a ping to see if they are available.  The perl agent does more in the
> fact that it will email the admin and also store states in the db. So
it
> will check every 5 minutes on a host and then email the admin every 60
> minutes until the host is back up.  The thing I hate about the perl
> agent is that it round robins the list.  That is no good so I will
> either convert it to do a fork() on each object or I'll use threads.
Is
> there threads in python?  I think in Perl threads are not really
threads
> as they would be in C.

Python has threads.

> chop up this code and tell me how it can be better:

No real comments, just a relevant question to the pythonistas out there.
I notice in this code that there are accessor methods for all the
variables.  This is technically unnecessary since python doesn't have
private fields like java or C++.  However, perhaps it is good style--in
Java it would be.  So, my question is whether this is the preferred way
to expose fields, or is it considered okay to just access the fields
directly?

Michael
> 
> --- Cut Here --- Cut Here
----------------------------------------------
> 
> #!/usr/bin/env python
> 
> import sys;
> import MySQLdb;
> import os;
> import re;
> 
> class Ens:
>   def set_name(self, name):
>     self.name = name;
>   def set_id(self, id):
>     self.id = id;
>   def set_ip(self, ip):
>     self.ip = ip;
>   def get_name(self):
>     return self.name;
>   def get_id(self):
>     return self.id;
>   def get_ip(self):
>     return self.ip;
> 
> 
> def ping(ip, tries = 2):
>   my_re = re.compile('(\w|\W)+ (\d) received, (\w|\W)+')
>   for attempt in range(tries):
>     ping_in, ping_out = os.popen2("ping -c 1 %s" % ip)
>     for line in ping_out:
>       rec_match = my_re.match(line)
>       if not rec_match: continue
>       received = int(rec_match.groups()[1])
>       if not received: continue
>       return attempt + 1
> 
>   return False
> 
> 
> class Application:
>   def main(self):
>     db = MySQLdb.connect(host="127.0.0.1", user="cms", passwd="cms",
> db="AC_OUTPOST");
>     c = db.cursor();
>     c.execute("select * from ens");
>     ENS = [ ];
> 
>     while True:
>       row = c.fetchone();
>       if not row: break;
>       e = Ens();
>       e.set_name(row[2]);
>       e.set_id(row[0]);
>       e.set_ip(row[5]);
>       ENS.append(e);
> 
>     for tmp in ENS:
>      result = ping(tmp.get_ip());
>      if not result:
>        print "ID:",tmp.get_id()," Name:",tmp.get_name()," DOWN!";
>     else:
>        print "ID:",tmp.get_id()," Name:",tmp.get_name()," UP!";
> 
> 
> program = Application();
> program.main();
> 
> # vi: set ts=2 sw=2: #
> 
> --- Cut Here --- Cut Here
----------------------------------------------
> 
> How do I set the object constructor so that I can simply create an Ens
> object with all the information needed?  Is it possible to simply pass
> the whole row into the constructor?
> 
> I read in the O'reilly book "Learning Python" that the code can be
> compiled into a .pyc file.  How do I compile into .pyc so that I can
> distribute the code without the source being seen?  This is one of my
> biggest problems with Perl.
> 
> Thanks,
> Chris
> 
> 
> On Thu, 2005-01-27 at 14:49, John P. Healey wrote:
> > the code for pinging would look something like this:
> >
> > import os
> > import re
> >
> > def ping(ip, tries = 2):
> >     my_re = re.compile('(\w|\W)+ (\d) received, (\w|\W)+')
> >     for attempt in range(tries):
> >         ping_in, ping_out = os.popen2("ping -c 1 %s" % ip)
> >         for line in ping_out:
> >             rec_match = my_re.match(line)
> >             if not rec_match: continue
> >             received = int(rec_match.groups()[1])
> >             if not received: continue
> >             return attempt + 1
> >     return False
> >
> > it takes an optional second argument (# of tries) and returns the
number
> of
> > tries needed when successful, False otherwise.  the SMTP stuff can
be
> handled
> > with smtplib.  it's part of the standard library.  the main python
site
> has
> > pretty good documentation on this, including example code:
> >
> > http://docs.python.org/lib/module-smtplib.html
> >
> >
> > 5265762e204a6f686e6e79204865616c6579
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale



From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Fri Jan 28 10:26:12 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Fri Jan 28 10:26:12 2005
Subject: [ale] Py[h]hon syntax (sic)
In-Reply-To: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CE86@germanium.numethods.com>
References: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CE86@germanium.numethods.com>
Message-ID: <1106925692.4932.53.camel@linux.linxdev.com>

On Fri, 2005-01-28 at 10:14, Michael Hirsch wrote:
> No real comments, just a relevant question to the pythonistas out there.
> I notice in this code that there are accessor methods for all the
> variables.  This is technically unnecessary since python doesn't have
> private fields like java or C++.  However, perhaps it is good style--in
> Java it would be.  So, my question is whether this is the preferred way
> to expose fields, or is it considered okay to just access the fields
> directly?
> 

That totally sucks.





From jimpop at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 28 11:12:10 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Fri Jan 28 11:12:10 2005
Subject: [ale] OT Speedfactory Problems Anyone?
In-Reply-To: <1106895064.28445.8.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
References: <005e01c5049b$24494230$0a00a8c0@atlas>
	<1106895064.28445.8.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
Message-ID: <1106928451.18946.11.camel@blue>

On Fri, 2005-01-28 at 01:51 -0500, Raylynn Knight wrote:
> When did Speedfactory start using PPPOE crap.  

I'm guessing that it's because they don't own the DSLAM that you are
connecting to, and that all they can do is push on to you the policy
that is set by BellSouth.

If you think about it PPPOE makes sense to use if you are providing an
infrastructure, as is the case with BellSouth, that others are reselling
(middleman'ing to use a previous term).  If they weren't using PPPOE
then every circuit needed by SpeedFactory/Speakeasy would require some
hands-on in a DSLAMs.  As it is now, with PPPOE, all BellSouth has to do
is add an entry to an authentication database everytime
SpeedFactory/Speakeasy adds a new client.  This process is probably very
very similar to the authentication/billing/etc process and procedures
used by BellSouth for years in their dial-up access (2400 -> 56K)
business.

-Jim P.





From scherrey at proteus-tech.com  Fri Jan 28 11:45:46 2005
From: scherrey at proteus-tech.com (Benjamin Scherrey)
Date: Fri Jan 28 11:45:46 2005
Subject: [ale] Py[h]hon syntax (sic)
In-Reply-To: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CE86@germanium.numethods.com>
References: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CE86@germanium.numethods.com>
Message-ID: <41FA6B21.7060201@proteus-tech.com>

Michael,

    Actually python does have a mechanism, albeit a big odd, for making 
data private but it is not standard python practice to use getter/setter 
methods. Indeed, its generally poor practice in most languages but I see 
a lot of poorly written C++ & Java strewn with it. There is the 
occasional need for these accessors in some languages but python has 
gone even further and completely eliminated their need by explicit 
support for properties. Properties allows your class users to use syntax 
just like they were accessing the data members directly but actually 
routes the access through methods in the class that validate, 
manipulate, or generally enforce the interface to that data. Indeed, 
through this method one can define read-only (and write-only!) 
properties giving your data further protection. This provides for better 
enforcement of encapsulation whereas in most cases where you see 
getter/setter methods, you've actually identified a violation of 
encapsulation and poor design.

    -- Ben Scherrey

Michael Hirsch wrote:

> <snip>
>
>No real comments, just a relevant question to the pythonistas out there.
>I notice in this code that there are accessor methods for all the
>variables.  This is technically unnecessary since python doesn't have
>private fields like java or C++.  However, perhaps it is good style--in
>Java it would be.  So, my question is whether this is the preferred way
>to expose fields, or is it considered okay to just access the fields
>directly?
>
>Michael
>  
>
> <snip>
>
>
>  
>


From jknapka at kneuro.net  Fri Jan 28 12:09:14 2005
From: jknapka at kneuro.net (Joe Knapka)
Date: Fri Jan 28 12:09:14 2005
Subject: [ale] Py[h]hon syntax (sic)
In-Reply-To: <1106867206.4932.18.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
References: <54612.24.98.129.46.1106752999.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org> < >
	<1106756890.23708.80.camel@linux.linxdev.com> < >
	<41F7CF8F.6040200@proteus-tech.com>
	<1106851149.16046.22.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
	<fc.00249f0f237e97793b9aca0051c22f51.237e9cd0@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>
	<1106867206.4932.18.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
Message-ID: <m3r7k5v6di.fsf@telzey.localdomain>

Christopher Fowler <cfowler at outpostsentinel.com> writes:

> Here is my WIP code.   I'm converting an agent I wrote in perl that
> checks the database for our embedded devices in the field.  It then does
> a ping to see if they are available.  The perl agent does more in the
> fact that it will email the admin and also store states in the db. So it
> will check every 5 minutes on a host and then email the admin every 60
> minutes until the host is back up.  The thing I hate about the perl
> agent is that it round robins the list.  That is no good so I will
> either convert it to do a fork() on each object or I'll use threads.  Is
> there threads in python?

Yes. Check the module index in the Python docs.

>  I think in Perl threads are not really threads
> as they would be in C.  
> 
> chop up this code and tell me how it can be better:

It could be a lot shorter:
 
--- Cut Here --- Cut Here ----------------------------------------------

#!/usr/bin/env python

import MySQLdb;
import os;
import re;

def ping(ip, tries = 2):
  my_re = re.compile('(\w|\W)+ (\d) received, (\w|\W)+')
  for attempt in range(tries):
    ping_in, ping_out = os.popen2("ping -c 1 %s" % ip)
    for line in ping_out:
      rec_match = my_re.match(line)
      if not rec_match: continue
      received = int(rec_match.groups()[1])
      if not received: continue
      return "UP"
  return "DOWN"

db = MySQLdb.connect(host="127.0.0.1", user="cms", passwd="cms",db="AC_OUTPOST");
c = db.cursor();
c.execute("select * from ens");
row = c.fetchone();
while row:
  id,dummy1,name,dummy2,dummy3,ip = row
  print "ID:",id,"Name:",name,ping(ip)
  row = c.fetchone()
--- Cut Here --- Cut Here ----------------------------------------------

IMO, "do the simplest thing that can possibly work" is nearly always
the right thing :-) While not explicitly OO, the code above is much
shorter and equally encapsulated: there is only a single line of code
that knows the structure of a DB row, and that knowledge was all that
was really being abstracted in the original code.
 
> How do I set the object constructor so that I can simply create an Ens
> object with all the information needed?  Is it possible to simply pass
> the whole row into the constructor?

class Ens:
  def __init__(self,row):
    self.id = row[0]
    self.ip = row[5]
    self.name = row[2]

But OO is definitely overkill in this example.

> I read in the O'reilly book "Learning Python" that the code can be
> compiled into a .pyc file.  How do I compile into .pyc so that I can
> distribute the code without the source being seen?

Run it. The interpreter will generate a .pyc.

>  This is one of my
> biggest problems with Perl.

You worry about OTHER people reading and understanding your
Perl code???

-- Joe

-- 
No sig for you today.
--
pub  1024D/BA496D2B 2004-05-14 Joseph A Knapka
     Key fingerprint = 3BA2 FE72 3CBA D4C2 21E4  C9B4 3230 94D7 BA49 6D2B
If you really want to get my attention, send mail to
jknapka .at. kneuro .dot. net.


From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Fri Jan 28 12:21:24 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Fri Jan 28 12:21:24 2005
Subject: [ale] Py[h]hon syntax (sic)
In-Reply-To: <m3r7k5v6di.fsf@telzey.localdomain>
References: <54612.24.98.129.46.1106752999.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org> < >
	<1106756890.23708.80.camel@linux.linxdev.com> < >
	<41F7CF8F.6040200@proteus-tech.com>
	<1106851149.16046.22.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
	<fc.00249f0f237e97793b9aca0051c22f51.237e9cd0@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>
	<1106867206.4932.18.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
	<m3r7k5v6di.fsf@telzey.localdomain>
Message-ID: <1106932611.4932.68.camel@linux.linxdev.com>

On Fri, 2005-01-28 at 11:57, Joe Knapka wrote:

> But OO is definitely overkill in this example.
> 
The problem I have with Perl is that OOP is an afterthought when the
language was developed.  I'm looking at Pyhon to do pure OO
programming.  The reason to use objects in this program is that I will
eventually create a thread for each object.  That thread will be
responsible for that one device.  This eliminates the problem that round
robin introduces when trying to check a long list of devices to see if
they are up. 

If you start with device 1 and all are down it could be many minutes
before device 10 is even tested.  Not a good thing.  Every device needs
to be checked every 5 minutes, 60 minutes if by dial-up.  And there can
be no delays in testing because a few hosts ahead in line are down and
are slowing down each ping process.

> 
> >  This is one of my
> > biggest problems with Perl.
> 
> You worry about OTHER people reading and understanding your
> Perl code???

The code is part of a bigger system.  May perl programs, C, and Java
programs.  These are users that need not to read the code.  Plus with
the byte-code I can add code that validates the code is running on the
machine we sold the customer.
> 
> -- Joe


From dcorbin at enttek.com  Fri Jan 28 12:28:46 2005
From: dcorbin at enttek.com (David Corbin)
Date: Fri Jan 28 12:28:46 2005
Subject: [ale] KDE oddity
In-Reply-To: <200501242050.38909.jimmyc@speedfactory.net>
References: <200501242034.41439.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
	<200501242050.38909.jimmyc@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <200501281222.04198.dcorbin@enttek.com>

No joy with that work around.  I have four desktops defined, 3 of the just 
aren't working right.


On Monday 24 January 2005 08:50 pm, Jim Philips wrote:
> On Monday 24 January 2005 08:34 pm, David Corbin wrote:
> > I've gentoo/KDE installation.  Somehow, I've done something so that while
> > I have four virtual desktops, only one of them shows the background color
> > and main "panel" (task bar).  Any ideas?
>
> I have no idea what going on with the panel, but backgrounds are set per
> desktop in Control Center. Just go to Appearance & Themes-->Background and
> you'll see a pulldown there that defines individual desktops or all
> desktops. If all of this fails, try renaming ~/.kde/share/config/kdeglobals
> and restarting KDE. This will remove all of your previous settings and
> force you to set new ones. Good if the whole rc file is corrupt.
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From fletch at phydeaux.org  Fri Jan 28 13:39:28 2005
From: fletch at phydeaux.org (fletch at phydeaux.org)
Date: Fri Jan 28 13:39:28 2005
Subject: [ale] brain damaged perl DBI
In-Reply-To: <41FA21E9.8090704@3times25.net>
References: <1106883388.16329.238.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
	<41FA21E9.8090704@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <9313.24.98.129.46.1106937292.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org>



>>   foreach my $id (@clone_list){
>>     my $query = qq|SELECT id
>>        FROM assembly
>>        WHERE parts_id = $id|;
>
> I believe you'll need single quotes around $id above.
>
>>     my $sth = $dbh->prepare($query);
>>     $sth->execute || $form->dberror($query);


The better solution would be to use a placeholder.  Then you can prepare the
statement once outside the foreach and pass the id when you execute it (and
you're also less vulnerable to SQL injection attacks).

my $sth = $dbh->prepare( qq{
SELECT id FROM assembly WHERE parts_id = ?
});
foreach my $id ( @clone_list ) {
  $sth->execute( $id ) or $form->dberror( "assembly SELECT id $id" );

  while( my $row = $sth->fetchrow_arrayref ) {
    #...
  }

  $sth->finish( );
}


See perldoc DBI for more info on placeholders.  Also check out the trace()
method
which can be handy to see exactly what you're sending back and forth to
your DB
backend.

-- 
Fletch                | "If you find my answers frightening,       __`'/|
fletch at phydeaux.org|  Vincent, you should cease askin'          \ o.O'
                      |  scary questions." -- Jules                =(___)=
                      |                                               U


From mpwright at speedfactory.net  Fri Jan 28 14:08:30 2005
From: mpwright at speedfactory.net (Mark Wright)
Date: Fri Jan 28 14:08:30 2005
Subject: [ale] OT Speedfactory Problems Anyone?
In-Reply-To: <41FA2770.5070400@3times25.net>
References: <005e01c5049b$24494230$0a00a8c0@atlas>
	<1106895064.28445.8.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
	<41FA2770.5070400@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <1FEC7068-715F-11D9-A7F0-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>

Geoffrey,

Did you really say you have pppoe and a static ip?  I have been paying 
Speedfac about $20 more than bell DSL, for a static ip because Bell 
would only give me a pppoe account.  How can you get both?

I love speedfactory but money is money.

Mark


On Jan 28, 2005, at 6:52 AM, Geoffrey wrote:

> Raylynn Knight wrote:
>> When did Speedfactory start using PPPOE crap.  I'm pretty sure my link
>> is not using PPPOE (unless they're handling it in the DSL Modem).  Or
>> does the fact that I pay for multiple static IP's keep me from 
>> suffering
>> from PPPOE usage?
>
> All the fiber dsl service is pppoe.  I was not pppoe and opted for it 
> in order to get the higher speed.  I've still got a static ip.  Since 
> going that route, I've not had any problems.
>
> -- 
> Until later, Geoffrey
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>


From dcorbin at enttek.com  Fri Jan 28 14:11:58 2005
From: dcorbin at enttek.com (David Corbin)
Date: Fri Jan 28 14:11:58 2005
Subject: [ale] Py[h]hon syntax (sic)
In-Reply-To: <1106932611.4932.68.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
References: <54612.24.98.129.46.1106752999.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org>
	<m3r7k5v6di.fsf@telzey.localdomain>
	<1106932611.4932.68.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
Message-ID: <200501281405.05505.dcorbin@enttek.com>

On Friday 28 January 2005 12:16 pm, Christopher Fowler wrote:
> On Fri, 2005-01-28 at 11:57, Joe Knapka wrote:
> > But OO is definitely overkill in this example.
>
> The problem I have with Perl is that OOP is an afterthought when the
> language was developed.  I'm looking at Pyhon to do pure OO
> programming.  

But Python isn't pure OO.   I admit to limited experience with it, but the 
experience I've had screams "not yet OO".  Strings didn't even have a 
length/size method.  An extenral function had to be called.


From greg.freemyer at gmail.com  Fri Jan 28 14:15:53 2005
From: greg.freemyer at gmail.com (Greg Freemyer)
Date: Fri Jan 28 14:15:53 2005
Subject: [ale] OT Speedfactory Problems Anyone?
In-Reply-To: <1FEC7068-715F-11D9-A7F0-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>
References: <005e01c5049b$24494230$0a00a8c0@atlas>
	<1106895064.28445.8.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
	<41FA2770.5070400@3times25.net>
	<1FEC7068-715F-11D9-A7F0-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <87f94c37050128111115ccc1f8@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 14:02:15 -0500, Mark Wright
<mpwright at speedfactory.net> wrote:
> Geoffrey,
> 
> Did you really say you have pppoe and a static ip?  I have been paying
> Speedfac about $20 more than bell DSL, for a static ip because Bell
> would only give me a pppoe account.  How can you get both?
> 
> I love speedfactory but money is money.
> 
> Mark
> 
We have bellsouth, pppoe, and static ip.

We pay bellsouth a little extra each month.

bellsouth just ensures we are assigned the same ip everytime we login.

I have even tried to use my bellsouth login from another location. 
The second login gets the static IP assigned and the first location is
immediately offline.  I don't know if that is due to the static IP, or
if that happens with all pppoe customers.

FYI: I don't think bellsouth will sell a static IP for all hardware
setups in their SLICS, or maybe it is a business DSL vs. residential
DSL thing.  I just know many bellsouth people have told me that we
could not have it.

Mind you, I had bellsouth techs working on the service tell me that
even after we had it for several months!!!   (i.e. Don't trust
bellsouth people to know what they are talking about on this issue.)

Greg
-- 
Greg Freemyer


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Fri Jan 28 14:17:00 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Fri Jan 28 14:17:00 2005
Subject: [ale] OT Speedfactory Problems Anyone?
In-Reply-To: <1FEC7068-715F-11D9-A7F0-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>
References: <005e01c5049b$24494230$0a00a8c0@atlas>	<1106895064.28445.8.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>	<41FA2770.5070400@3times25.net>
	<1FEC7068-715F-11D9-A7F0-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>
Message-ID: <41FA8E7E.6080107@3times25.net>

Mark Wright wrote:
> Geoffrey,
> 
> Did you really say you have pppoe and a static ip?  I have been paying 
> Speedfac about $20 more than bell DSL, for a static ip because Bell 
> would only give me a pppoe account.  How can you get both?

Yes I do.  Speedfactory simply sets it up on their end that way. 
Bellsouth will charge you for static as well, so you'd not likely save 
any money going with them.

You can go with pppoe with Speedfactory, keep your static, and likely 
get a speed upgrade at little or no charge.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From mhirsch at nubridges.com  Fri Jan 28 14:40:12 2005
From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael Hirsch)
Date: Fri Jan 28 14:40:12 2005
Subject: [ale] Py[h]hon syntax (sic)
Message-ID: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CEF7@germanium.numethods.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
> Benjamin Scherrey
> Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 11:41 AM
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [ale] Py[h]hon syntax (sic)
> 
> Michael,
> 
>     Actually python does have a mechanism, albeit a big odd, for
making
> data private but it is not standard python practice to use
getter/setter
> methods. Indeed, its generally poor practice in most languages but I
see
> a lot of poorly written C++ & Java strewn with it. There is the
> occasional need for these accessors in some languages but python has
> gone even further and completely eliminated their need by explicit
> support for properties. Properties allows your class users to use
syntax
> just like they were accessing the data members directly but actually
> routes the access through methods in the class that validate,
> manipulate, or generally enforce the interface to that data. Indeed,
> through this method one can define read-only (and write-only!)
> properties giving your data further protection. This provides for
better
> enforcement of encapsulation whereas in most cases where you see
> getter/setter methods, you've actually identified a violation of
> encapsulation and poor design.

<google_search ... read .. > 

Wow, that's pretty cool.  Is there a way to do it where you don't have
to write the getter/setter?  So, if I'd like to have a variable exposed
to read and write I don't need to do anything because by default
everything is available outside the class.  But if I want a read only
member, I need to setup a reader methods and declare it.  What I'd
really like is declare a member read only, but not have to write
accessor methods unless they are needed.  I didn't see that mentioned in
any of the docs.  Did I miss it?

Thanks,

Michael



From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Fri Jan 28 14:43:20 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Fri Jan 28 14:43:20 2005
Subject: [ale] brain damaged perl DBI
In-Reply-To: <9313.24.98.129.46.1106937292.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org>
References: <1106883388.16329.238.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
	<41FA21E9.8090704@3times25.net>
	<9313.24.98.129.46.1106937292.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org>
Message-ID: <1106941116.16329.275.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>

On Fri, 2005-01-28 at 13:34 -0500, fletch at phydeaux.org wrote:

> 
> The better solution would be to use a placeholder.  Then you can prepare the
> statement once outside the foreach and pass the id when you execute it (and
> you're also less vulnerable to SQL injection attacks).
> 
> my $sth = $dbh->prepare( qq{
> SELECT id FROM assembly WHERE parts_id = ?
> });
> foreach my $id ( @clone_list ) {
>   $sth->execute( $id ) or $form->dberror( "assembly SELECT id $id" );
> 
>   while( my $row = $sth->fetchrow_arrayref ) {
>     #...
>   }
> 
>   $sth->finish( );
> }
> 
> 
Great idea! 

> See perldoc DBI for more info on placeholders.  Also check out the trace()
> method
> which can be handy to see exactly what you're sending back and forth to
> your DB
> backend.

Digging for info on trace(). Thanks for the info. 
> 
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From jpheale at LearnLink.Emory.Edu  Fri Jan 28 14:45:12 2005
From: jpheale at LearnLink.Emory.Edu (John P. Healey)
Date: Fri Jan 28 14:45:12 2005
Subject: [ale] Py[h]hon syntax (sic)
In-Reply-To: <200501281405.05505.dcorbin@enttek.com>
References: <54612.24.98.129.46.1106752999.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org> <	>
	<m3r7k5v6di.fsf@telzey.localdomain> <	>
	<1106932611.4932.68.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
	<200501281405.05505.dcorbin@enttek.com>
Message-ID: <fc.00249f0f2383f1853b9aca0051c22f51.2383f411@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>

actually, python is purely OO and strings do have a length method, it's called
__len__().  the reason for the external length function is that it produces
more useful errors when given something that doesn't have a length.

5265762e204a6f686e6e79204865616c6579


From scherrey at proteus-tech.com  Fri Jan 28 14:55:10 2005
From: scherrey at proteus-tech.com (Benjamin Scherrey)
Date: Fri Jan 28 14:55:10 2005
Subject: [ale] Py[h]hon syntax (sic)
In-Reply-To: <200501281405.05505.dcorbin@enttek.com>
References: <54612.24.98.129.46.1106752999.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org>	<m3r7k5v6di.fsf@telzey.localdomain>	<1106932611.4932.68.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
	<200501281405.05505.dcorbin@enttek.com>
Message-ID: <41FA9787.8050607@proteus-tech.com>

    Whoa there horsey! Let's back up a bit. We're mixing adjectives. 
Pure OO means *everything* is an object and going outside of OO concepts 
is difficult or forbidden by the language ala Smalltalk. Fully OO means 
that the language implements and enforces all the constructs necessary 
to be considered OO, i.e. encapsulation, inheritance, and polymorphism. 
Both C++ and python are fully OO but neither is pure because they also 
support other programming paradigms (like functional programming). But 
there is nothing about python that isn't fully OO and it supports that 
paradigm completely. Your observation about strings not having a size 
method is pure syntactical sugar. Strings are simply a form of list 
which has keyword support already for lengths therefore no need to make 
it a method. It is a very simple matter of deriving your own string type 
and providing a length() method if you wanted to be pure but the 
built-in mechanism is optimized for performance. Strings do have other 
methods unique to them that don't apply to other sequences. FWIW - 
historically *pure* anything languages tend to be regulated to academia 
and perform terribly in the real world. This is why no language invented 
by Nicholas Wirth has ever been a commercial success without first 
violating many of the pure precepts (ala Turbo Pascal).

    -- Ben Scherrey

David Corbin wrote:

>On Friday 28 January 2005 12:16 pm, Christopher Fowler wrote:
>  
>
>>On Fri, 2005-01-28 at 11:57, Joe Knapka wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>But OO is definitely overkill in this example.
>>>      
>>>
>>The problem I have with Perl is that OOP is an afterthought when the
>>language was developed.  I'm looking at Pyhon to do pure OO
>>programming.  
>>    
>>
>
>But Python isn't pure OO.   I admit to limited experience with it, but the 
>experience I've had screams "not yet OO".  Strings didn't even have a 
>length/size method.  An extenral function had to be called.
>_______________________________________________
>Ale mailing list
>Ale at ale.org
>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
>  
>


From scherrey at proteus-tech.com  Fri Jan 28 15:03:38 2005
From: scherrey at proteus-tech.com (Benjamin Scherrey)
Date: Fri Jan 28 15:03:38 2005
Subject: [ale] Py[t]hon syntax (sic)
In-Reply-To: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CEF7@germanium.numethods.com>
References: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CEF7@germanium.numethods.com>
Message-ID: <41FA9980.40107@proteus-tech.com>

    By default all members of a class are public in python, yes. 
Unfortunately there is no concept like 'const' in C++ with python, just 
the idiom of making a property with no set method established. However, 
with the new decorator syntax recently introduced, it wouldn't be hard 
to make a @const decorator that would throw an exception or something 
when trying to write to that data. Unfortunately decorators can only be 
applied to functions, as I understand them, so you'd still need to use 
the property mechanism to establish it.

    FWIW - the concept of 'const correctness' in C++ is one that I've 
come to love and wish other languages would support it, especially 
python. The other thing missing from python is a parameterized type 
capability like C++ templates. You can fake it via the reflection 
capabilities of python but you're gonna pay a performance penalty 
whereas C++ templates are often a performance improvement.

    -- Ben Scherrey

Michael Hirsch wrote:

><google_search ... read .. > 
>
>Wow, that's pretty cool.  Is there a way to do it where you don't have
>to write the getter/setter?  So, if I'd like to have a variable exposed
>to read and write I don't need to do anything because by default
>everything is available outside the class.  But if I want a read only
>member, I need to setup a reader methods and declare it.  What I'd
>really like is declare a member read only, but not have to write
>accessor methods unless they are needed.  I didn't see that mentioned in
>any of the docs.  Did I miss it?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Michael
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Ale mailing list
>Ale at ale.org
>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
>  
>


From FishR at bellsouth.net  Fri Jan 28 16:08:33 2005
From: FishR at bellsouth.net (Ryan Fish)
Date: Fri Jan 28 16:08:33 2005
Subject: [ale] mod_perl + Apache
Message-ID: <08d001c5057d$64090210$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>

Hello,

How would I go about compiling mod_perl into Apache?  I have searched Google for this and found steps that appear to be correct but I am wondering if there is an easier method than actually fully recompiling both Apache and mod_perl from source.

Fedora Core 3
2.6.10-1.741_FC3smp
Apache/2.0.52
mod_perl-1.99_16-3

All help will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.
-Ryan
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From jloden at toughguy.net  Fri Jan 28 16:44:25 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Fri Jan 28 16:44:25 2005
Subject: [ale] C++ "not all control paths return a value"
Message-ID: <41FAAF41.8060400@toughguy.net>

I've got some code that compiles, but with a warning for the following 
function:

string truncPath(string name){
    if(name.substr(1, 1) == ":"){
        for(int k=0; k < 30; k++){
            if(name.substr(name.length()-k, 1) == "\\"){
                string ret = name.substr(name.length()-k+1, k);
                return ret;
            }
        }
    }

    else{
        return name;
    }
}

Saying "Not all control paths return a value" - what does this mean, am 
I missing something in my code?

-Jay


From scherrey at proteus-tech.com  Fri Jan 28 16:53:06 2005
From: scherrey at proteus-tech.com (Benjamin Scherrey)
Date: Fri Jan 28 16:53:06 2005
Subject: [ale] C++ "not all control paths return a value"
In-Reply-To: <41FAAF41.8060400@toughguy.net>
References: <41FAAF41.8060400@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <41FAB312.50700@proteus-tech.com>

Comments intermixed in your code...

Jay Loden wrote:

> I've got some code that compiles, but with a warning for the following 
> function:
>
> string truncPath(string name){
>    if(name.substr(1, 1) == ":"){
>        for(int k=0; k < 30; k++){
>            if(name.substr(name.length()-k, 1) == "\\"){
>                string ret = name.substr(name.length()-k+1, k);
>                return ret;
>            }
>        }

          // Your flow of control could logically get here which would 
result in no return value.

>    }
>
       // Best solution is just to get rid of this else clause because 
if the above return
       // doesn't get executed then you always want 'return name;' to 
happen, right?

>    else{
>        return name;
>    }
> }
>
> Saying "Not all control paths return a value" - what does this mean, 
> am I missing something in my code?
>
> -Jay
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 28 17:03:16 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Fri Jan 28 17:03:16 2005
Subject: [ale] C++ "not all control paths return a value"
In-Reply-To: <41FAAF41.8060400@toughguy.net>
References: <41FAAF41.8060400@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <1106949510.24825.5.camel@blue>

Since your func is defined as retuning a string, that warning is
alerting you that parts of your code don't return a string.
Specifically if the variable "name" contains a ":" but never a "\" your
func will return without a valid return value.

-Jim P. 

On Fri, 2005-01-28 at 16:31 -0500, Jay Loden wrote:
> I've got some code that compiles, but with a warning for the following 
> function:
> 
> string truncPath(string name){
>     if(name.substr(1, 1) == ":"){
>         for(int k=0; k < 30; k++){
>             if(name.substr(name.length()-k, 1) == "\\"){
>                 string ret = name.substr(name.length()-k+1, k);
>                 return ret;
>             }
>         }
>     }
> 
>     else{
>         return name;
>     }
> }
> 
> Saying "Not all control paths return a value" - what does this mean, am 
> I missing something in my code?
> 
> -Jay
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 28 17:07:22 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Fri Jan 28 17:07:22 2005
Subject: [ale] C++ "not all control paths return a value"
In-Reply-To: <41FAAF41.8060400@toughguy.net>
References: <41FAAF41.8060400@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <1106949759.24825.8.camel@blue>

Btw, shame shame for posting a question about DOS/Windows coding to a
Linux list. ;-)

-Jim P.

On Fri, 2005-01-28 at 16:31 -0500, Jay Loden wrote:
> I've got some code that compiles, but with a warning for the following 
> function:
> 
> string truncPath(string name){
>     if(name.substr(1, 1) == ":"){
>         for(int k=0; k < 30; k++){
>             if(name.substr(name.length()-k, 1) == "\\"){
>                 string ret = name.substr(name.length()-k+1, k);
>                 return ret;
>             }
>         }
>     }
> 
>     else{
>         return name;
>     }
> }
> 
> Saying "Not all control paths return a value" - what does this mean, am 
> I missing something in my code?
> 
> -Jay
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From volcimaster at gmail.com  Fri Jan 28 17:08:40 2005
From: volcimaster at gmail.com (Warren Myers)
Date: Fri Jan 28 17:08:40 2005
Subject: [ale] C++ "not all control paths return a value"
In-Reply-To: <1106949510.24825.5.camel@blue>
References: <41FAAF41.8060400@toughguy.net> <1106949510.24825.5.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <cd08a04c05012814036a3a86a7@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah, you should take out the else{ and the matching }, should clean
up the problem.
WMM


On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 16:58:30 -0500, Jim Popovitch <jimpop at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Since your func is defined as retuning a string, that warning is
> alerting you that parts of your code don't return a string.
> Specifically if the variable "name" contains a ":" but never a "\" your
> func will return without a valid return value.
> 
> -Jim P.
> 
> On Fri, 2005-01-28 at 16:31 -0500, Jay Loden wrote:
> > I've got some code that compiles, but with a warning for the following
> > function:
> >
> > string truncPath(string name){
> >     if(name.substr(1, 1) == ":"){
> >         for(int k=0; k < 30; k++){
> >             if(name.substr(name.length()-k, 1) == "\\"){
> >                 string ret = name.substr(name.length()-k+1, k);
> >                 return ret;
> >             }
> >         }
> >     }
> >
> >     else{
> >         return name;
> >     }
> > }
> >
> > Saying "Not all control paths return a value" - what does this mean, am
> > I missing something in my code?
> >
> > -Jay
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 


-- 
http://warrenmyers.com
"Don't let the elephants see what the rabbits are doing." --Ben R Rich


From John.Armsby at motorola.com  Fri Jan 28 17:29:49 2005
From: John.Armsby at motorola.com (Armsby John-G16665)
Date: Fri Jan 28 17:29:49 2005
Subject: [ale] mailx
Message-ID: <31EF3A450BCED5119D080002A5CE4D9109191857@ga25exb01.wepd.mot.com>

We have RedHat Enterprise update 3 running.  We have a group who want to use mailx with korn shell scripts.  
 
I tried to install the mailx rpm from the install CD but rpm says that mailx is already installed.  I can not "locate" "mailx" anywhere.  I have used mailx from HPUX and so I know to expect the test based mail tool to come up when I type "mailx".  Is mailx on Linux aliased to somethng?
 
John
 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...



From mike at tyderia.net  Fri Jan 28 17:51:06 2005
From: mike at tyderia.net (Mike Murphy)
Date: Fri Jan 28 17:51:06 2005
Subject: [ale] mailx
In-Reply-To: <31EF3A450BCED5119D080002A5CE4D9109191857@ga25exb01.wepd.mot.com>
References: <31EF3A450BCED5119D080002A5CE4D9109191857@ga25exb01.wepd.mot.com>
Message-ID: <41FAC0B4.3080004@tyderia.net>

on a fedora core 1 machine (which is similar to RHES3):
[mmurphy at xwing mmurphy]$ rpm -qa |grep mailx
mailx-8.1.1-31.1

[mmurphy at xwing mmurphy]$ rpm -q --list mailx-8.1.1-31.1
/bin/mail
/etc/mail.rc
/usr/bin/Mail
/usr/lib/mail.help
/usr/lib/mail.tildehelp
/usr/share/man/man1/Mail.1.gz
/usr/share/man/man1/mail.1.gz

So it seems that mailx == /bin/mail. Looking at the usage statement of 
/bin/mail on that machine and comparing it to that of mailx on a solaris 
machine, it seems that that mail has the same major flags that mailx 
does (like -s subject, etc).

So, I suspect you can use /bin/mail as a mailx substitute safely. You 
might want to symlink /bin/mailx to /bin/mail for something...

Mike



Armsby John-G16665 wrote:
> We have RedHat Enterprise update 3 running.  We have a group who want to 
> use mailx with korn shell scripts. 
>  
> I tried to install the mailx rpm from the install CD but rpm says that 
> mailx is already installed.  I can not "locate" "mailx" anywhere.  I 
> have used mailx from HPUX and so I know to expect the test based mail 
> tool to come up when I type "mailx".  Is mailx on Linux aliased to somethng?
>  
> John
>  
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

-- 

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Mike Murphy
781 Inman Mews Drive Atlanta GA 30307
Landline: 404-653-1070
Mobile: 404-545-6234
Email: mike at tyderia.net
AIM: mmichael453
ICBM: 33:45:14.0584N  84:21:43.038W
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+


From ale at spinnerdog.com  Fri Jan 28 18:04:26 2005
From: ale at spinnerdog.com (David Hamm)
Date: Fri Jan 28 18:04:26 2005
Subject: [ale] Novell help
Message-ID: <200501281759.50433.ale@spinnerdog.com>

I've been asked if I could migrate data from a Novell 4.2 server to Linux and 
maintain file attributes.  Has anyone got any ideas?


From John.Armsby at motorola.com  Fri Jan 28 18:06:07 2005
From: John.Armsby at motorola.com (Armsby John-G16665)
Date: Fri Jan 28 18:06:07 2005
Subject: [ale] mailx
Message-ID: <31EF3A450BCED5119D080002A5CE4D9109191858@ga25exb01.wepd.mot.com>

Thanks, I will try it.

John


-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Mike Murphy
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 5:46 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] mailx


on a fedora core 1 machine (which is similar to RHES3): [mmurphy at xwing mmurphy]$ rpm -qa |grep mailx mailx-8.1.1-31.1

[mmurphy at xwing mmurphy]$ rpm -q --list mailx-8.1.1-31.1 /bin/mail /etc/mail.rc /usr/bin/Mail /usr/lib/mail.help /usr/lib/mail.tildehelp /usr/share/man/man1/Mail.1.gz /usr/share/man/man1/mail.1.gz

So it seems that mailx == /bin/mail. Looking at the usage statement of 
/bin/mail on that machine and comparing it to that of mailx on a solaris 
machine, it seems that that mail has the same major flags that mailx 
does (like -s subject, etc).

So, I suspect you can use /bin/mail as a mailx substitute safely. You 
might want to symlink /bin/mailx to /bin/mail for something...

Mike



Armsby John-G16665 wrote:
> We have RedHat Enterprise update 3 running.  We have a group who want 
> to
> use mailx with korn shell scripts. 
>  
> I tried to install the mailx rpm from the install CD but rpm says that
> mailx is already installed.  I can not "locate" "mailx" anywhere.  I 
> have used mailx from HPUX and so I know to expect the test based mail 
> tool to come up when I type "mailx".  Is mailx on Linux aliased to somethng?
>  
> John
>  
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

-- 

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Mike Murphy
781 Inman Mews Drive Atlanta GA 30307
Landline: 404-653-1070
Mobile: 404-545-6234
Email: mike at tyderia.net
AIM: mmichael453
ICBM: 33:45:14.0584N  84:21:43.038W
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From jloden at toughguy.net  Fri Jan 28 18:20:48 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Fri Jan 28 18:20:48 2005
Subject: [ale] C++ "not all control paths return a value"
In-Reply-To: <1106949759.24825.8.camel@blue>
References: <41FAAF41.8060400@toughguy.net> <1106949759.24825.8.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <41FAC76A.6070205@toughguy.net>

If it helps, it's a virus removal that has resulted in me being able to 
bring about five or six people into the Linux flock ;)

-Jay

Jim Popovitch wrote:

>Btw, shame shame for posting a question about DOS/Windows coding to a
>Linux list. ;-)
>
>-Jim P.
>  
>


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Fri Jan 28 18:44:24 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Fri Jan 28 18:44:24 2005
Subject: [ale] C++ "not all control paths return a value"
In-Reply-To: <41FAC76A.6070205@toughguy.net>
References: <41FAAF41.8060400@toughguy.net> <1106949759.24825.8.camel@blue>
	<41FAC76A.6070205@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <1106955570.26517.3.camel@blue>

On Fri, 2005-01-28 at 18:14 -0500, Jay Loden wrote:
> If it helps, it's a virus removal that has resulted in me being able to 
> bring about five or six people into the Linux flock ;)

Even if it doesn't bring them to Linux, virus removal is a worthy
cause. ;-)  Best wishes.

-Jim P.






From jknapka at kneuro.net  Fri Jan 28 18:56:31 2005
From: jknapka at kneuro.net (Joe Knapka)
Date: Fri Jan 28 18:56:31 2005
Subject: [ale] Py[t]hon syntax (sic)
In-Reply-To: <41FA9980.40107@proteus-tech.com>
References: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CEF7@germanium.numethods.com>
	<41FA9980.40107@proteus-tech.com>
Message-ID: <m3is5hunis.fsf@telzey.localdomain>

Benjamin Scherrey <scherrey at proteus-tech.com> writes:

>     FWIW - the concept of 'const correctness' in C++ is one that I've
> come to love and wish other languages would support it, especially
> python. The other thing missing from python is a parameterized type
> capability like C++ templates. You can fake it via the reflection
> capabilities of python but you're gonna pay a performance penalty
> whereas C++ templates are often a performance improvement.

Why would you need parameterized types in a dynamically-typed
language like Python?  IMO adding explicit typing to Python
would negatively impact the language's usability, and I
don't see any reason to have parameterized types unless
type information is present in the source code. Can you
elaborate?

-- Joe

-- 
No sig for you today.
--
pub  1024D/BA496D2B 2004-05-14 Joseph A Knapka
     Key fingerprint = 3BA2 FE72 3CBA D4C2 21E4  C9B4 3230 94D7 BA49 6D2B
If you really want to get my attention, send mail to
jknapka .at. kneuro .dot. net.


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Fri Jan 28 19:50:44 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Fri Jan 28 19:50:44 2005
Subject: [ale] C++ "not all control paths return a value"
In-Reply-To: <41FAAF41.8060400@toughguy.net>
References: <41FAAF41.8060400@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <41FADCC8.9000408@3times25.net>

Jay Loden wrote:
> I've got some code that compiles, but with a warning for the following 
> function:
> 
> string truncPath(string name){
>    if(name.substr(1, 1) == ":"){
>        for(int k=0; k < 30; k++){
>            if(name.substr(name.length()-k, 1) == "\\"){
>                string ret = name.substr(name.length()-k+1, k);
>                return ret;
>            }
>        }

I believe it means that you would exit the function without hitting a 
return that returns a value (here)

>    }
> 
>    else{
>        return name;
>    }
> }
> 
> Saying "Not all control paths return a value" - what does this mean, am 
> I missing something in my code?


-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Fri Jan 28 19:57:07 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Fri Jan 28 19:57:07 2005
Subject: [ale] mailx
In-Reply-To: <31EF3A450BCED5119D080002A5CE4D9109191857@ga25exb01.wepd.mot.com>
References: <31EF3A450BCED5119D080002A5CE4D9109191857@ga25exb01.wepd.mot.com>
Message-ID: <41FADE4C.2020207@3times25.net>

Armsby John-G16665 wrote:
> We have RedHat Enterprise update 3 running.  We have a group who want
> to use mailx with korn shell scripts.

My kinda folks!

> I tried to install the mailx rpm from the install CD but rpm says
> that mailx is already installed.  I can not "locate" "mailx"
> anywhere.  I have used mailx from HPUX and so I know to expect the
> test based mail tool to come up when I type "mailx".  Is mailx on
> Linux aliased to somethng?

On my Red Hat Workstation box:

rhws/esc/pgrnd/prog> rpm -ql mailx-8.1.1-31
/bin/mail
/etc/mail.rc
/usr/bin/Mail
/usr/lib/mail.help
/usr/lib/mail.tildehelp
/usr/share/man/man1/Mail.1.gz
/usr/share/man/man1/mail.1.gz

It appears they may just call it /bin/mail

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From glim at mycybernet.net  Fri Jan 28 22:43:40 2005
From: glim at mycybernet.net (glim at mycybernet.net)
Date: Fri Jan 28 22:43:40 2005
Subject: [ale] [OT] Yet Another Perl Conference North America 2005 announces
	call-for-papers
Message-ID: <m1CujRI-000XI5C@mail.cybrnet.net>

   YAPC::NA 2005 (Yet Another Perl Conference, North America) has just
   released its call-for-papers; potential and aspiring speakers can
   submit a presentation proposal via:

         http://yapc.org/America/cfp-2005.shtml

   The dates of the conference are Monday - Wednesday 27-29 June 2005.
   The location will be in downtown Toronto, Ontario, Canada. (Note that
   a different date block was previously announced, but has been moved to
   accomodate venue availability.)

   The close of the call-for-papers is April 18, 2005 at 11:59 pm.

   If you have any questions regarding the call-for-papers or speaking at
   YAPC::NA 2005 please email na-author at yapc.org

   We would love to hear from potential sponsors. Please contact the
   organizers at na-sponsor at yapc.org to learn about the benefits of
   sponsorship.

   Other information regarding the conference (e.g. venue, registration
   specifics) will be announced soon.

   We look forward to your submissions and a great conference!



From James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com  Fri Jan 28 22:58:24 2005
From: James.Taylor at eastcobbgroup.com (James Taylor)
Date: Fri Jan 28 22:58:24 2005
Subject: [ale] Novell help
Message-ID: <s1fac270.089@inet.eastcobbgroup.com>

The short answer is that you cannot.  Linux file attributes and ACLs are
very limited compared to Novell's.

Another answer is yes, but....
Novell is releasing OES (Open Enterprise Server) in about six weeks. 
This gives you access to Novell services, including  the same attribute
and ACL capabilities you have on NetWare.  You can migrate files from a
NetWare server to a Linux server and still continue to access file and
print services as though it were a NetWare server.

OES beta is available for download at http://www.novell.com/beta

-jt

James Taylor
The East Cobb Group, Inc.
james.taylor at eastcobbgroup.com
678-697-9420
>>> ale at spinnerdog.com 01/28/05 5:59 PM >>>
I've been asked if I could migrate data from a Novell 4.2 server to
Linux and 
maintain file attributes.  Has anyone got any ideas?
_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale



From jloden at toughguy.net  Fri Jan 28 23:25:37 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Fri Jan 28 23:25:37 2005
Subject: [ale] C++ "not all control paths return a value"
In-Reply-To: <1106955570.26517.3.camel@blue>
References: <41FAAF41.8060400@toughguy.net> <41FAC76A.6070205@toughguy.net>
	<1106955570.26517.3.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <200501282318.19171.jloden@toughguy.net>

Yeah, it's the only thing that's kept me on Windows at all, because I need 
Visual Studio to compile the stupid thing.  I thought it'd be a one time 
thing but here we are over 18 months later and I'm still updating it weekly 
to remove new virus variants.  

Thanks to everyone that replied, all I had to do was remove the else at the 
end and just put "return true" - one of those things where looking back at 
code from a year ago I realize that I've learned a little since then ;)

-Jay

On Friday 28 January 2005 06:39 pm, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> On Fri, 2005-01-28 at 18:14 -0500, Jay Loden wrote:
> > If it helps, it's a virus removal that has resulted in me being able to
> > bring about five or six people into the Linux flock ;)
>
> Even if it doesn't bring them to Linux, virus removal is a worthy
> cause. ;-)  Best wishes.
>
> -Jim P.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From aaron at pd.org  Sat Jan 29 00:45:07 2005
From: aaron at pd.org (aaron)
Date: Sat Jan 29 00:45:07 2005
Subject: [ale] Problem Installing Suse 9.2 (resolved...)
In-Reply-To: <18de987705012805087b17470e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7176880.1106841228108.JavaMail.root@wamui04.slb.atl.earthlink.net>
	<41FA1F8B.3070306@3times25.net>
	<18de987705012805087b17470e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200501281934.01816.aaron@pd.org>

On Friday 28 January 2005 08:08, Eric VanWieren wrote:
> I have the distro on cd if you would prefer that. It is a number of
> cd's, but hey, it works.
> 
> Eric

Thanks for the offer, Eric, but on third try with a different media brand I 
was eventually able to produce a DVD that was acceptable to the drive on the 
system.

Both the other iso burns were on media that I have used successfully in 
cooking off couple dozen video DVD's created on this and other burners.

Like I was saying, DVD technology is _so_ torally lacking in public standards 
and reliability....

peace
aaron

> On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 06:18:35 -0500, Geoffrey <esoteric at 3times25.net> wrote:
> > aaron wrote:
> > 
> > > I'm burning another copy of the ISO now. If that doesn't make a 
difference,
> > > I'll try the alternative DVD drive suggestion. Your tip prompted a 
little web
> > > research, but the problem you are referring to may have more to do with 
the
> > > fact that the boxed SuSE 9.2 install DVD is Dual Layered. Still, given 
the
> > > symptoms, the player is a likely a potential failure point.
> > 
> > I don't think this will have anything to do with it.  Didn't you
> > download this iso?  I built an iso of the boxed version, and you are
> > correct, it is dual layer, and is >7gig, thus I was not able to make a
> > copy of it.  The download version, as I understand it, does not have the
> > 64 bit goodies, thus it's small enough to fit on a standard dvd.
> >
> > Until later, Geoffrey


From joh6nn at hotpop.com  Sat Jan 29 04:39:22 2005
From: joh6nn at hotpop.com (joh6nn)
Date: Sat Jan 29 04:39:22 2005
Subject: [ale] gaim and kde
Message-ID: <41FB58A5.4070502@hotpop.com>

i'm trying to save some window settings for Gaim across sessions in KDE, 
but i'm not having a whole lot of luck with it; the Gaim FAQ mentions 
this, but it here: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/faq.php#q24 , but not in 
a way that i was able to make sense of; does anyone know how to get KDE 
to recognize the difference between different Gaim windows?


-joh6nn


From dcorbin at machturtle.com  Sat Jan 29 07:29:25 2005
From: dcorbin at machturtle.com (David Corbin)
Date: Sat Jan 29 07:29:25 2005
Subject: [ale] Remote dd ?
Message-ID: <200501290725.36997.dcorbin@machturtle.com>

I have a small (1G) linux system that I would like to make "one-time' mirror 
of (complete with boot record).  I know how I can do this with 'dd', but I'd 
really rather not bring the system down to put the secondary hard drive in 
it.  So, the question is, is there a way to do this over the network, from 
another functioning Linux box?

David


From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Sat Jan 29 08:23:18 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Sat Jan 29 08:23:18 2005
Subject: [ale] Remote dd ?
In-Reply-To: <200501290725.36997.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
References: <200501290725.36997.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
Message-ID: <1107004718.4932.79.camel@linux.linxdev.com>

dd if=/dev/hda | ssh root at AAA.BBB.CCC.DDD "dd of=/root/hda.img"

On Sat, 2005-01-29 at 07:25, David Corbin wrote:
> I have a small (1G) linux system that I would like to make "one-time' mirror 
> of (complete with boot record).  I know how I can do this with 'dd', but I'd 
> really rather not bring the system down to put the secondary hard drive in 
> it.  So, the question is, is there a way to do this over the network, from 
> another functioning Linux box?
> 
> David
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Sat Jan 29 09:26:14 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Sat Jan 29 09:26:14 2005
Subject: [ale] gaim and kde
In-Reply-To: <41FB58A5.4070502@hotpop.com>
References: <41FB58A5.4070502@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <41FB9BEF.70007@3times25.net>

joh6nn wrote:
> i'm trying to save some window settings for Gaim across sessions in KDE, 
> but i'm not having a whole lot of luck with it; the Gaim FAQ mentions 
> this, but it here: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/faq.php#q24 , but not in 
> a way that i was able to make sense of; does anyone know how to get KDE 
> to recognize the difference between different Gaim windows?

What settings are you trying to save?

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From trey at fastmail.fm  Sat Jan 29 10:04:27 2005
From: trey at fastmail.fm (Trey Sizemore)
Date: Sat Jan 29 10:04:27 2005
Subject: [ale] Question for the Fedora users
Message-ID: <1107010889.3920.10.camel@localhost.localdomain>

I've just installed FC3 on my desktop machine and have attempted to
update with yum.  Some packages would install/update OK while others
would complain that there was no public GPG key available.

I've added GPG keys per instructions at http://www.fedorafaq.org and
even have commented out the gpgcheck lines in my yum.conf downloaded
from http://www.fedorafaq as well.

That was issue #1.

Since then I have installed yumextender as well, per a post I saw on
this list.  Looks and works good, but of course was suffering the same
errors as when using yum from console.

Something has since gone awry as I cannot update yum and yumextender
will no longer start since I changes some repos.  I get the following:
[root at localhost etc]# yum check-update
not using ftp, http[s], or file for repos, skipping - None
Setting up Repo:  livna-stable
repomd.xml                100% |=========================|  951 B
00:00
Setting up Repo:  fedora-unstable
repomd.xml                100% |=========================|  903 B
00:00
Setting up Repo:  fedora-stable
repomd.xml                100% |=========================|  903 B
00:00
Setting up Repo:  livna-unstable
repomd.xml                100% |=========================|  951 B
00:00
Setting up Repo:  updates-released
repomd.xml                100% |=========================|  951 B
00:00
Setting up Repo:  livna-testing
repomd.xml                100% |=========================|  951 B
00:00
Setting up Repo:  base
Cannot find a valid baseurl for repo: base


My yum.conf file mentions that base repos are located
at /etc/yum.conf.d/ but this directory isn't present currently on my
system.

What I'm trying to do is to select repositories that will hopefully not
conflict while at the same time make use of bleeding-edge packages where
possible.

Any help is greatly appreciated.


From fletch at phydeaux.org  Sat Jan 29 11:00:42 2005
From: fletch at phydeaux.org (Fletch)
Date: Sat Jan 29 11:00:42 2005
Subject: [ale] Py[h]hon syntax (sic)
In-Reply-To: <1106867206.4932.18.camel@linux.linxdev.com> (Christopher
	Fowler's message of "Thu, 27 Jan 2005 18:06:46 -0500")
References: <54612.24.98.129.46.1106752999.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org> < >
	<1106756890.23708.80.camel@linux.linxdev.com> < >
	<41F7CF8F.6040200@proteus-tech.com>
	<1106851149.16046.22.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com>
	<fc.00249f0f237e97793b9aca0051c22f51.237e9cd0@LearnLink.Emory.Edu>
	<1106867206.4932.18.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
Message-ID: <m27jlwi60q.fsf@freebie.phydeaux.org>

>>>>> "Christopher" == Christopher Fowler <cfowler at outpostsentinel.com> writes:

Oop, I missed this the other day . . .

[...]

    Christopher> I read in the O'reilly book "Learning Python" that
    Christopher> the code can be compiled into a .pyc file.  How do I
    Christopher> compile into .pyc so that I can distribute the code
    Christopher> without the source being seen?  This is one of my
    Christopher> biggest problems with Perl.

Python bytecode's not going to prevent anyone from mucking with things
any more than compiling Java to bytecode does (or C to machine code
for that matter).  If someone's determined enough they'll be able to
recover pretty near the original source.


Having said that, if you want to raise the bar to discourage casual
mucking for Perl see perldoc B::Byetcode (although it's still pretty
experimental), PAR (which will wrap everything up into an executable
with an embedded zip archive), or one of the obfuscation filters (the
original Acme::Bleach, the somewhat repetitive Acme::Buffy, or the
swiss army chainsaw of source obfuscation Acme::EyeDrops) from CPAN.
Acme::EyeDrops comes with a script that'll easily let you turn:

#!/usr/bin/perl
print "Hello world\n";


Into this (yes, this is valid perl; not that that's going to surprise the
python people much . . . :)

#!/usr/bin/perl
                                      ''=~('('.'?'
           .'{'.(                   '`'|'%').("\["^
        '-').('`'|                '!').('`'|',').'"'
 .'#'."\!".  "\/".(              '['^'.').('['^'(').(
'['^')').'/'.(('`')|            '"').('`'|')').(('`')|
'.').'/'.('['^"\+").(          '`'|'%').('['^')').('`'
  |',').('!'^('+')).(        '!'^'+').('['^'+').(('[')^
       ')').('`'|')')      .('`'|'.').('['^'/').('{'^'['
      ).'\\'.('"').(     '`'^'(').('`'|'%').('`'|(',')).(
     '`'|',').("\`"|   '/').('{'^'[').('['^',').('`'|'/').
    ('['^')').('`'|   ',').('`'|'$').'\\'.'\\'.('`'|'.').''.
    '\\'.'"'."\;".(  '!'^'+').('!'^'+').('`'|'%').('['^'#').(
    '`'|')').('['^  '/').('{'^'[').('^'^('`'|'.')).';'.("\!"^
    '+').('!'^'+')  .'"'.'}'.')');$:='.'^'~';$~='@'|'(';$^=')'
    ^'[';$/='`'|'.';$,='('^'}';$\='`'|'!';$:=')'^'}';$~=('*')|
    '`';$^='+'^'_';$/='&'|'@';$,='['&'~';$\=','^'|';$:='.'^'~';
     $~='@'|'(';$^=')'^'[';$/='`'|'.';$,='('^'}';$\='`'|'!';$:=
     ')'^'}';$~='*'|'`';$^='+'^'_';$/='&'|'@';$,='['&'~';$\=','^
      '|';$:='.'^'~';$~='@'|'(';$^=')'^'[';$/='`'|'.';$,='('^'}';
       $\='`'|'!';$:=')'^'}';$~='*'|'`';$^='+'^'_';$/='&'|'@';$,=
        '['&'~';$\=','^'|';$:='.'^'~';$~='@'|'(';$^=')'^"\["; $/=
         '`'|'.';$,='('^'}';$\='`'|'!';$:=')'^'}';$~='*'|'`'  ;$^
          ='+'^'_';$/='&'|'@';$,='['&'~';$\=','^'|' ;$:='.'^  '~'
            ;$~='@'|'(';$^=')'^'[';$/='`'|"\.";$,=  '('^'}'   ;$\
             ='`'| '!';$:=')'^'}';$~='*'|"\`";$^=   '+'^'_'   ;$/
                   ='&'|'@';$,='['&'~';$\=(',')^    '|';$:=   '.'
                   ^'~';$~=    '@'|'(';$^ ="\)"^     '[';$/   =(
                   ('`'))|     "\.";$,=   ('(')^     '}';$\  =(
                   ('`'))|     "\!";$:=   "\)"^       "\}";  (
                   ($~))=      '*'|'`';   ($^)         ='+'
                   ^"\_";     $/=('&')|   '@';         ($,)
                    ='['&     "\~";$\=    ','^         '|';
                    ($:)=     '.'^'~'     ;$~=         '@'|
                    '(';     $^=')'       ^'['         ;$/=
                    '`'|     '.'          ;$,=         '('^
                    '}';      $\=         '`'          |((
                    '!'        ));       $:=           ')'
                    ^((         '}'     ));            $~=
                    '*'          |((   '`'              ))
                    ;(             ($^))=               ((
                    ((              '+'))               ))
                    ^+             "\_";$/=             ((
                   '&'            ))|+ "\@";            $,
                  =((           '['))&  '~';           $\=
                 ','^         "\|";$:=   '.'          ^'~'
               ;($~)=                                ('@')|
             "\(";$^=                               ')'^'['


__END__

-- 
Fletch                | "If you find my answers frightening,       __`'/|
fletch at phydeaux.org|  Vincent, you should cease askin'          \ o.O'
                      |  scary questions." -- Jules                =(___)=
                      |                                               U


From fletch at phydeaux.org  Sat Jan 29 11:18:23 2005
From: fletch at phydeaux.org (fletch at phydeaux.org)
Date: Sat Jan 29 11:18:23 2005
Subject: [ale] Py[h]hon syntax (sic)
In-Reply-To: <m27jlwi60q.fsf@freebie.phydeaux.org>
References: <54612.24.98.129.46.1106752999.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org> <
	><1106756890.23708.80.camel@linux.linxdev.com> <
	><41F7CF8F.6040200@proteus-tech.com><1106851149.16046.22.camel@cfowler.outpostsentinel.com><fc.00249f0f237e97793b9aca0051c22f51.237e9cd0@LearnLink.Emory.Edu><1106867206.4932.18.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
	<m27jlwi60q.fsf@freebie.phydeaux.org>
Message-ID: <57717.24.98.129.46.1107015216.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org>

> Into this (yes, this is valid perl; not that that's going to surprise the
> python people much . . . :)
>
> #!/usr/bin/perl
>                                       ''=~('('.'?'
>            .'{'.(                   '`'|'%').("\["^
[...]


Oop, I converted that on an older perl (5.6.1) and 5.8.1 hiccups on it. 
Converting on 5.8.1 runs with no errors on 5.8.1 or 5.6.1.  But you get
the idea.


I really need to upgrade that FreeBSD box (or just toss it and get a Mac
Mini :) . . .

-- 
Fletch                | "If you find my answers frightening,       __`'/|
fletch at phydeaux.org|  Vincent, you should cease askin'          \ o.O'
                      |  scary questions." -- Jules                =(___)=
                      |                                               U


From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Sat Jan 29 13:24:35 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Sat Jan 29 13:24:35 2005
Subject: [ale] Question for the Fedora users
In-Reply-To: <1107010889.3920.10.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1107010889.3920.10.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <1107022776.16329.282.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>

On Sat, 2005-01-29 at 10:01 -0500, Trey Sizemore wrote:
> I've just installed FC3 on my desktop machine and have attempted to
> update with yum.  Some packages would install/update OK while others
> would complain that there was no public GPG key available.
> 
> I've added GPG keys per instructions at http://www.fedorafaq.org and
> even have commented out the gpgcheck lines in my yum.conf downloaded
> from http://www.fedorafaq as well.
> 
> That was issue #1.
> 
> Since then I have installed yumextender as well, per a post I saw on
> this list.  Looks and works good, but of course was suffering the same
> errors as when using yum from console.
> 
> Something has since gone awry as I cannot update yum and yumextender
> will no longer start since I changes some repos.  I get the following:
> [root at localhost etc]# yum check-update
> not using ftp, http[s], or file for repos, skipping - None
> Setting up Repo:  livna-stable
> repomd.xml                100% |=========================|  951 B
> 00:00
> Setting up Repo:  fedora-unstable
> repomd.xml                100% |=========================|  903 B
> 00:00
> Setting up Repo:  fedora-stable
> repomd.xml                100% |=========================|  903 B
> 00:00
> Setting up Repo:  livna-unstable
> repomd.xml                100% |=========================|  951 B
> 00:00
> Setting up Repo:  updates-released
> repomd.xml                100% |=========================|  951 B
> 00:00
> Setting up Repo:  livna-testing
> repomd.xml                100% |=========================|  951 B
> 00:00
> Setting up Repo:  base
> Cannot find a valid baseurl for repo: base
> 
> 
> My yum.conf file mentions that base repos are located
> at /etc/yum.conf.d/ but this directory isn't present currently on my
> system.
> 
> What I'm trying to do is to select repositories that will hopefully not
> conflict while at the same time make use of bleeding-edge packages where
> possible.
> 
> Any help is greatly appreciated.

Drop livna as a repository. They are one of the conflicting version for
Fedora. DAG uses a straight fedora setup to build with and does not have
the conflicts that livna does. livna is trying to be a superset of
fedora.

Go into your /etc/yum.repos.d directory and remove the .repo from all of
the livna configs. That will turn them off. You will need to download a
new yum.rpm or use the one from the install CD's. rpm -e yum then
install the new one.

Here's the repo file for dag (dag.repo).

[dag]
name=Dag RPM Repository for Fedora Core
baseurl=http://apt.sw.be/fedora/$releasever/en/$basearch/dag
enabled=1
gpgcheck=1

and here's the one that works for base (fedora.repo):

[base]
name=Fedora Core $releasever - $basearch - Base
#baseurl=http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/$releasever/$basearch/os/
mirrorlist=http://fedora.redhat.com/download/mirrors/fedora-core-
$releasever
enabled=1
gpgcheck=1


Line wrap warning on the mirrorlist= line
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> !DSPAM:41fba51e114126608921435!
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From ale1 at cybertechcafe.net  Sat Jan 29 13:32:02 2005
From: ale1 at cybertechcafe.net (Nathan J. Underwood)
Date: Sat Jan 29 13:32:02 2005
Subject: [ale] OT - Open via FTP, my replacement for UltraEdit
Message-ID: <41FBD583.3020608@cybertechcafe.net>

I realize that this is probably common knowledge for (most) everyone 
else, but it's taken me a long time to figure it out (see my previous 
posts regarding an UltraEdit like app for Linux).  So, at risk of 
getting flamed, I'm posting it anyway in the event that someone else is 
having the same problem.  In my defense, I've only been [trying to] use 
Linux on the desktop for a short while (well, 1-2 years or so), so I'm 
still feeling my way around.

A lot of what I do involves making simple updates / changes to client 
websites (change  a price, change a picture, etc.), and the ability in 
UltraEdit to just open a file remotely [via FTP] and then save it 
remotely [via FTP] was very nice.  I had been looking for something in 
Linux that replicated that ability.  Specifically, what I was looking 
for was something that had an 'open from ftp' or 'save to ftp' button.  
What I found, though, was even better.  With any of the various text 
editors available in Linux, I can just choose 'Open', and then open an 
FTP location.  The one that I've found that seems to best suit my needs 
is KDevelop.  Anyway, just thought I'd stick that out there in case 
someone else was having the same problem.


From jb at sourceillustrated.com  Sat Jan 29 15:13:07 2005
From: jb at sourceillustrated.com (John Wells)
Date: Sat Jan 29 15:13:07 2005
Subject: [ale] OT - Open via FTP, my replacement for UltraEdit
In-Reply-To: <41FBD583.3020608@cybertechcafe.net>
References: <41FBD583.3020608@cybertechcafe.net>
Message-ID: <20050129161519.qaycan0bxag4w0gw@devsea.com>

"Nathan J. Underwood" <ale1 at cybertechcafe.net> said:

> I realize that this is probably common knowledge for (most) everyone
> else, but it's taken me a long time to figure it out (see my previous
> posts regarding an UltraEdit like app for Linux).  So, at risk of
> getting flamed, I'm posting it anyway in the event that someone else is
> having the same problem.  In my defense, I've only been [trying to] use
> Linux on the desktop for a short while (well, 1-2 years or so), so I'm
> still feeling my way around.

Nathan,

As an alternative, you might look at one of my favorite editors (and my choice
when I left UltraEdit and Windows behind years ago): jEdit
(http://www.jedit.org).

Many more features than UltraEdit, super-powerful plugins, and the best:
open/save from FTP, and more importantly, S-FTP!

HTH,
John


From barry at alltc.com  Sat Jan 29 15:37:13 2005
From: barry at alltc.com (Barry Hawkins)
Date: Sat Jan 29 15:37:13 2005
Subject: [ale] Book Review - Understanding Open Source & Free Software
	Licensing
Message-ID: <41FBF2D9.9010907@alltc.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

List,
~    I have completed a review for an O'Reilly book as Michael Hirsch had
mentioned back in October 2004[0].  I am posting a copy here for the
group; a version with hyperlinks is available on O'Reilly's catalog page
for the book[1], Amazon[2], or my weblog[3].

[0] - http://www.ale.org/archive/ale/ale-2004-10/msg01066.html
[1] - http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/catalog/print/b/1461?x-t=rr.view
[2] -
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0596005814/ref=cm_aya_asin.title/102-8868034-4816152?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance
[3] -  http://www.yepthatsme.com/

*************************************************************************
A Worthwhile Introduction to Open Source Licensing

Understanding Open Source & Free Software Licensing
Andrew M. St. Laurent
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/osfreesoft/

When sharing with others that I was reviewing an O'Reilly book through
their User Group & Professional Association Program, the first question
was always the same: "What book are you reviewing?" After saying the
title was "Understanding Open Source & Free Software Licensing",
responses ranged from "What's that?" to "Well, you won't have any
trouble sleeping!" One might think that this list of people included
relatives and coworkers who were not attuned to the open source
community and its issues. On the contrary, the responses came from those
within my circle of acquaintances that include software developers,
system administrators, and even an intellectual property lawyer.
Licensing is not exactly the sort of topic where people slide forward in
their seats and ask to be told more. Such is the appeal of software
licensing; however, the importance of understanding licensing,
particularly within the context of open source development, cannot be
overstated.

Those familiar with the O'Reilly product offerings have no doubt seen or
purchased one or more their Pocket Reference series
(http://pocketrefs.oreilly.com/). They are not comprehensive references,
but rather convenient guides for a specific topic to provide the sort of
information one is not likely to have committed to memory, particularly
as the trend of having cross-disciplined technologists continues. This
book could be considered the analog of pocket guides for open source and
free software licensing. Open source licenses and their legal
interpretation are subject matter that easily warrant a "pocket
reference" that is a full-sized book of nearly 200 pages.

Frankly, reading through a software license and maintaining a reasonable
level of comprehension is a rather tough job. The author manages to make
the task far more bearable and fruitful at the same time; a difficult
balance to strike. The pace of the annotation works well to break up the
various licenses (twelve in total) into bite-sized chunks. Chapters 2
and 3, which address the Apache/BSD/MIT family of licenses and the
GPL/LGPL/MPL family of licenses respectively, each end with a section
titled "Application and Philosophy" that serves as a sort of reward for
making it through the license and establishes a touchstone to summarize
and provide meaningful context for what has been covered.

The annotations of the different licenses are a great introduction, but
the book should not be considered as a complete reference for open
source licensing issues. The book seems to affirm this at points where
the author indicates that particular topics fall outside the book's
scope, even to the point of recommending experienced legal counsel for
certain issues. It also has a wonderful collection of footnotes and
reference to other resources to allow the reader to flesh out topics of
interest beyond the focus of this work.

One subtlety of the book that should not be missed is how the history of
the open source movement is woven throughout the book to provide the
context in which these licenses came into being and were modified to
accommodate the vibrant, emerging world of open development models. The
book's last two chapters bring that context to the foreground, fully
developing the consequence of the licenses in daily development
activity. It is far too easy to view these licenses and as mere legal
documents that exist in and of themselves; the author reminds us that
these licenses are the manifestations of a spirit of selfless
contribution and work toward social good made possible by the
considerable sacrifice of quite gifted individuals. For those passionate
about the open source and free software movements, the section of
chapter 7 titled "Models of Open Source and Free Software Development"
is a poignant and stirring encapsulation of the first years of the GNU
and Linux projects and the work that brought them into being. The clich?
rings true; we do indeed "stand on the shoulders of giants."

The number of editorial errors involving misspelled and/or missing words
seemed relatively high; this is a trend that seems to have developed in
technical books in recent years, to a point that the technical community
has come to accept it as some sort of side effect of the rapid pace with
which books must be produced in order to keep pace with the rate of
change. Given that this is an issue present in other works as well as
this one, it should not particularly count as a mark against the work,
but rather serve to underscore an issue publishers should consider
improving.

"Understanding Open Source & Free Software Licensing" is a book which
strikes a balance between completeness of subject matter coverage and
manageability of size. Given the amount of attention the average open
source user or developer has given to licensing, reading this book would
be a considerable improvement. This book is recommended for a couple of
audiences. First, it serves as a great foundation for developers either
active in or contemplating participation in open source development.
Searching most any open source mailing list for the term "license" can
usually turn up some of its hottest flame wars. If most developers had
this introductory level of understanding about the main open source
licenses, hundreds of message threads arguing about licensing could be
avoided.

A second audience for this book is the project manager and/or CTO in
most corporate IT shops. Most corporate projects are making use of
numerous open source libraries and frameworks. This is particularly true
with J2EE, but also with .Net as a number of .Net counterparts to
popular J2EE resources arise, e.g. NAnt, NUnit, etc. This book can
dispel unnecessary apprehension regarding the use of these libraries
that often arises from fear, uncertainty, and doubt (FUD) propagated in
much of the mainstream technology media. It can also equip managers to
make informed decisions about team members' potential contributions to
open source projects and the potential legal implications.
*************************************************************************

Regards,
- --
Barry Hawkins
All Things Computed
site: www.alltc.com
weblog: www.yepthatsme.com

Registered Linux User #368650
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From joh6nn at hotpop.com  Sat Jan 29 16:57:07 2005
From: joh6nn at hotpop.com (joh6nn)
Date: Sat Jan 29 16:57:07 2005
Subject: [ale] gaim and kde
In-Reply-To: <41FB9BEF.70007@3times25.net>
References: <41FB58A5.4070502@hotpop.com> <41FB9BEF.70007@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <41FC0586.2020608@hotpop.com>

window size, which desktop i want it on, whether i want it to have a 
border or not, etc.


From Dow.Hurst at mindspring.com  Sat Jan 29 17:53:33 2005
From: Dow.Hurst at mindspring.com (Dow Hurst)
Date: Sat Jan 29 17:53:33 2005
Subject: [ale] OT - Open via FTP, my replacement for UltraEdit
In-Reply-To: <20050129161519.qaycan0bxag4w0gw@devsea.com>
References: <41FBD583.3020608@cybertechcafe.net>
	<20050129161519.qaycan0bxag4w0gw@devsea.com>
Message-ID: <41FC12D0.5000700@mindspring.com>

Thanks for the tip on sftp support in jedit!
Dow


John Wells wrote:

> "Nathan J. Underwood" <ale1 at cybertechcafe.net> said:
>
>> I realize that this is probably common knowledge for (most) everyone
>> else, but it's taken me a long time to figure it out (see my previous
>> posts regarding an UltraEdit like app for Linux).  So, at risk of
>> getting flamed, I'm posting it anyway in the event that someone else is
>> having the same problem.  In my defense, I've only been [trying to] use
>> Linux on the desktop for a short while (well, 1-2 years or so), so I'm
>> still feeling my way around.
>
>
> Nathan,
>
> As an alternative, you might look at one of my favorite editors (and 
> my choice
> when I left UltraEdit and Windows behind years ago): jEdit
> (http://www.jedit.org).
>
> Many more features than UltraEdit, super-powerful plugins, and the best:
> open/save from FTP, and more importantly, S-FTP!
>
> HTH,
> John
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>


From dcorbin at machturtle.com  Sat Jan 29 19:20:59 2005
From: dcorbin at machturtle.com (David Corbin)
Date: Sat Jan 29 19:20:59 2005
Subject: [ale] hard disk DMA
Message-ID: <200501291915.55602.dcorbin@machturtle.com>

I moved a drive into an existing system as the primary master.  Now, the BIOS 
and Linux say both drives do not have DMA enabled.

Not sure why it would be different than before, but either way, how do I 
things "back in order"?

David


From tcarter at entrusion.com  Sat Jan 29 20:20:33 2005
From: tcarter at entrusion.com (Tony Carter)
Date: Sat Jan 29 20:20:33 2005
Subject: [ale] centos
Message-ID: <200501292015.23286.tcarter@entrusion.com>

Anyone ever used centos (www.centos.org)?  What did you think of it?
-Tony


From jloden at toughguy.net  Sat Jan 29 20:37:30 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Sat Jan 29 20:37:30 2005
Subject: [ale] centos
In-Reply-To: <200501292015.23286.tcarter@entrusion.com>
References: <200501292015.23286.tcarter@entrusion.com>
Message-ID: <200501292031.21608.jloden@toughguy.net>

Well, my hosting setup is supposedly RHEL but it turned out to be CentOS...I 
never realized it until I happened to run across a doc that said CentOS 
instead of RHEL, so I guess it's a pretty good imitation ;)

That being said, I only use it over ssh so I can't vouch for much more than a 
command line experience with it. 

-Jay

On Saturday 29 January 2005 03:15 pm, Tony Carter wrote:
> Anyone ever used centos (www.centos.org)?  What did you think of it?
> -Tony
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From jloden at toughguy.net  Sat Jan 29 20:40:03 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Sat Jan 29 20:40:03 2005
Subject: [ale] OT - Open via FTP, my replacement for UltraEdit
In-Reply-To: <41FBD583.3020608@cybertechcafe.net>
References: <41FBD583.3020608@cybertechcafe.net>
Message-ID: <200501292033.56927.jloden@toughguy.net>

Does anyone know if that is the same in GNOME or other WMs?  I read once that 
this behavior was really a result of network transparency in KDE...can anyone 
confirm/deny this? 

-Jay

On Saturday 29 January 2005 01:27 pm, Nathan J. Underwood wrote:
> I realize that this is probably common knowledge for (most) everyone
> else, but it's taken me a long time to figure it out (see my previous
> posts regarding an UltraEdit like app for Linux).  So, at risk of
> getting flamed, I'm posting it anyway in the event that someone else is
> having the same problem.  In my defense, I've only been [trying to] use
> Linux on the desktop for a short while (well, 1-2 years or so), so I'm
> still feeling my way around.
>
> A lot of what I do involves making simple updates / changes to client
> websites (change  a price, change a picture, etc.), and the ability in
> UltraEdit to just open a file remotely [via FTP] and then save it
> remotely [via FTP] was very nice.  I had been looking for something in
> Linux that replicated that ability.  Specifically, what I was looking
> for was something that had an 'open from ftp' or 'save to ftp' button.
> What I found, though, was even better.  With any of the various text
> editors available in Linux, I can just choose 'Open', and then open an
> FTP location.  The one that I've found that seems to best suit my needs
> is KDevelop.  Anyway, just thought I'd stick that out there in case
> someone else was having the same problem.
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From jloden at toughguy.net  Sat Jan 29 20:42:05 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Sat Jan 29 20:42:05 2005
Subject: [ale] Remote dd ?
In-Reply-To: <200501290725.36997.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
References: <200501290725.36997.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
Message-ID: <200501292035.59740.jloden@toughguy.net>

If you don't for whatever reason find that the solution using ssh works for 
you, you might want to look at partimage...I used it to make a full image of 
my hard drives and it did a great job, and it supports network transfers of 
the image files. 

-Jay

On Saturday 29 January 2005 07:25 am, David Corbin wrote:
> I have a small (1G) linux system that I would like to make "one-time'
> mirror of (complete with boot record).  I know how I can do this with 'dd',
> but I'd really rather not bring the system down to put the secondary hard
> drive in it.  So, the question is, is there a way to do this over the
> network, from another functioning Linux box?
>
> David
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From jloden at toughguy.net  Sat Jan 29 20:43:35 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Sat Jan 29 20:43:35 2005
Subject: [ale] Py[h]hon syntax (sic)
In-Reply-To: <m27jlwi60q.fsf@freebie.phydeaux.org>
References: <54612.24.98.129.46.1106752999.spork@webmail.phydeaux.org>
	<1106867206.4932.18.camel@linux.linxdev.com>
	<m27jlwi60q.fsf@freebie.phydeaux.org>
Message-ID: <200501292037.28900.jloden@toughguy.net>

On Python, you can use "freeze" to accomplish more or less what you're looking 
for. 

-Jay

On Saturday 29 January 2005 10:55 am, Fletch wrote:
> >>>>> "Christopher" == Christopher Fowler <cfowler at outpostsentinel.com>
> >>>>> writes:
>
> Oop, I missed this the other day . . .
>
> [...]
>
>     Christopher> I read in the O'reilly book "Learning Python" that
>     Christopher> the code can be compiled into a .pyc file.  How do I
>     Christopher> compile into .pyc so that I can distribute the code
>     Christopher> without the source being seen?  This is one of my
>     Christopher> biggest problems with Perl.
>
> Python bytecode's not going to prevent anyone from mucking with things
> any more than compiling Java to bytecode does (or C to machine code
> for that matter).  If someone's determined enough they'll be able to
> recover pretty near the original source.
>
>
> Having said that, if you want to raise the bar to discourage casual
> mucking for Perl see perldoc B::Byetcode (although it's still pretty
> experimental), PAR (which will wrap everything up into an executable
> with an embedded zip archive), or one of the obfuscation filters (the
> original Acme::Bleach, the somewhat repetitive Acme::Buffy, or the
> swiss army chainsaw of source obfuscation Acme::EyeDrops) from CPAN.
> Acme::EyeDrops comes with a script that'll easily let you turn:
>
> #!/usr/bin/perl
> print "Hello world\n";
>
>
> Into this (yes, this is valid perl; not that that's going to surprise the
> python people much . . . :)
>
> #!/usr/bin/perl
>                                       ''=~('('.'?'
>            .'{'.(                   '`'|'%').("\["^
>         '-').('`'|                '!').('`'|',').'"'
>  .'#'."\!".  "\/".(              '['^'.').('['^'(').(
> '['^')').'/'.(('`')|            '"').('`'|')').(('`')|
> '.').'/'.('['^"\+").(          '`'|'%').('['^')').('`'
>
>   |',').('!'^('+')).(        '!'^'+').('['^'+').(('[')^
>
>        ')').('`'|')')      .('`'|'.').('['^'/').('{'^'['
>       ).'\\'.('"').(     '`'^'(').('`'|'%').('`'|(',')).(
>      '`'|',').("\`"|   '/').('{'^'[').('['^',').('`'|'/').
>     ('['^')').('`'|   ',').('`'|'$').'\\'.'\\'.('`'|'.').''.
>     '\\'.'"'."\;".(  '!'^'+').('!'^'+').('`'|'%').('['^'#').(
>     '`'|')').('['^  '/').('{'^'[').('^'^('`'|'.')).';'.("\!"^
>     '+').('!'^'+')  .'"'.'}'.')');$:='.'^'~';$~='@'|'(';$^=')'
>     ^'[';$/='`'|'.';$,='('^'}';$\='`'|'!';$:=')'^'}';$~=('*')|
>     '`';$^='+'^'_';$/='&'|'@';$,='['&'~';$\=','^'|';$:='.'^'~';
>      $~='@'|'(';$^=')'^'[';$/='`'|'.';$,='('^'}';$\='`'|'!';$:=
>      ')'^'}';$~='*'|'`';$^='+'^'_';$/='&'|'@';$,='['&'~';$\=','^
>       '|';$:='.'^'~';$~='@'|'(';$^=')'^'[';$/='`'|'.';$,='('^'}';
>        $\='`'|'!';$:=')'^'}';$~='*'|'`';$^='+'^'_';$/='&'|'@';$,=
>         '['&'~';$\=','^'|';$:='.'^'~';$~='@'|'(';$^=')'^"\["; $/=
>          '`'|'.';$,='('^'}';$\='`'|'!';$:=')'^'}';$~='*'|'`'  ;$^
>           ='+'^'_';$/='&'|'@';$,='['&'~';$\=','^'|' ;$:='.'^  '~'
>             ;$~='@'|'(';$^=')'^'[';$/='`'|"\.";$,=  '('^'}'   ;$\
>              ='`'| '!';$:=')'^'}';$~='*'|"\`";$^=   '+'^'_'   ;$/
>                    ='&'|'@';$,='['&'~';$\=(',')^    '|';$:=   '.'
>                    ^'~';$~=    '@'|'(';$^ ="\)"^     '[';$/   =(
>                    ('`'))|     "\.";$,=   ('(')^     '}';$\  =(
>                    ('`'))|     "\!";$:=   "\)"^       "\}";  (
>                    ($~))=      '*'|'`';   ($^)         ='+'
>                    ^"\_";     $/=('&')|   '@';         ($,)
>                     ='['&     "\~";$\=    ','^         '|';
>                     ($:)=     '.'^'~'     ;$~=         '@'|
>                     '(';     $^=')'       ^'['         ;$/=
>                     '`'|     '.'          ;$,=         '('^
>                     '}';      $\=         '`'          |((
>                     '!'        ));       $:=           ')'
>                     ^((         '}'     ));            $~=
>                     '*'          |((   '`'              ))
>                     ;(             ($^))=               ((
>                     ((              '+'))               ))
>                     ^+             "\_";$/=             ((
>                    '&'            ))|+ "\@";            $,
>                   =((           '['))&  '~';           $\=
>                  ','^         "\|";$:=   '.'          ^'~'
>                ;($~)=                                ('@')|
>              "\(";$^=                               ')'^'['
>
>
> __END__


From laytonjb at charter.net  Sat Jan 29 22:34:02 2005
From: laytonjb at charter.net (Jeffrey B. Layton)
Date: Sat Jan 29 22:34:02 2005
Subject: [ale] centos
In-Reply-To: <200501292015.23286.tcarter@entrusion.com>
References: <200501292015.23286.tcarter@entrusion.com>
Message-ID: <41FC555C.2030609@charter.net>

CentOS is a RHEL rebuild. The group is very good about
keeping up with patches. I know some of the developers
and they are very good and very committed to the project.
I also think they will have a RHEL 4 rebuild out not
too long after it's announced.

Jeff

>Anyone ever used centos (www.centos.org)?  What did you think of it?
>-Tony
>_______________________________________________
>Ale mailing list
>Ale at ale.org
>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
>  
>


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sat Jan 29 22:52:48 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sat Jan 29 22:52:48 2005
Subject: [ale] centos
In-Reply-To: <41FC555C.2030609@charter.net>
References: <200501292015.23286.tcarter@entrusion.com>
	<41FC555C.2030609@charter.net>
Message-ID: <1107056867.10609.3.camel@blue>

I did a quick look on their site but didn't find the answer to this: Is
it safe to assume that for a non-desktop install all I would need is the
one server iso?

-Jim P.

On Sat, 2005-01-29 at 22:32 -0500, Jeffrey B. Layton wrote:
> CentOS is a RHEL rebuild. The group is very good about
> keeping up with patches. I know some of the developers
> and they are very good and very committed to the project.
> I also think they will have a RHEL 4 rebuild out not
> too long after it's announced.
> 
> Jeff
> 
> >Anyone ever used centos (www.centos.org)?  What did you think of it?
> >-Tony
> >_______________________________________________
> >Ale mailing list
> >Ale at ale.org
> >http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From jloden at toughguy.net  Sun Jan 30 02:41:41 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Sun Jan 30 02:41:41 2005
Subject: [ale] persistent mount points on removable devices
Message-ID: <200501300206.23032.jloden@toughguy.net>

I have an iPod and an external CD drive and an external hard drive, all of 
which I will be connecting to my laptop via firewire during my semester 
abroad (starting Tuesday).  I would like to know if there is a way for me to 
plug in my iPod, for example, and have it mount /mnt/iPod, or plug in my 
external drive and have it mount '/mnt/maxtor' or what have you. 

This way I can use things like gtkpod, etc to mount the drive and I will be 
able to control where it mounts without having to manually specify.  (This is 
on Debian 2.6.8)

I don't need it to automount the drives, but I'd like to be able to, for 
example, let gtkpod mount my iPod for me, which requires it to stay 
consistent. I've noticed that if I remove a device and reconnect it, it often 
comes up as a different block device...how can I get around this?  Can I set 
labels and set fstab to mount by label? 

-Jay


From dcorbin at machturtle.com  Sun Jan 30 08:22:22 2005
From: dcorbin at machturtle.com (David Corbin)
Date: Sun Jan 30 08:22:22 2005
Subject: [ale] persistent mount points on removable devices
In-Reply-To: <200501300206.23032.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <200501300206.23032.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <200501300818.19099.dcorbin@machturtle.com>

On Gentoo, there is a "udev" package that is a replacement for devfs. It 
allows you configure specific devices to fixed filenames.  I don't know if 
this is gentoo specific, part of the linux kernel, or an independent project.

On Sunday 30 January 2005 02:06 am, Jay Loden wrote:
> I have an iPod and an external CD drive and an external hard drive, all of
> which I will be connecting to my laptop via firewire during my semester
> abroad (starting Tuesday).  I would like to know if there is a way for me
> to plug in my iPod, for example, and have it mount /mnt/iPod, or plug in my
> external drive and have it mount '/mnt/maxtor' or what have you.
>
> This way I can use things like gtkpod, etc to mount the drive and I will be
> able to control where it mounts without having to manually specify.  (This
> is on Debian 2.6.8)
>
> I don't need it to automount the drives, but I'd like to be able to, for
> example, let gtkpod mount my iPod for me, which requires it to stay
> consistent. I've noticed that if I remove a device and reconnect it, it
> often comes up as a different block device...how can I get around this? 
> Can I set labels and set fstab to mount by label?
>
> -Jay
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From mattslistmail at earthlink.net  Sun Jan 30 10:14:48 2005
From: mattslistmail at earthlink.net (Matt Magee)
Date: Sun Jan 30 10:14:48 2005
Subject: [ale] centos
In-Reply-To: <200501292015.23286.tcarter@entrusion.com>
References: <200501292015.23286.tcarter@entrusion.com>
Message-ID: <41FCFA56.8000103@earthlink.net>

I have not used CentOS, but I did install White Box Linux on a spare 
machine.  White Box and CentOS are both based on RHEL with the RH 
tradmarks removed.

The most compelling reason I can think of to use a variant of RHEL was 
found on White Box's site:

What is the goal for White Box Linux?

To provide an unencumbered RPM based Linux distribution that retains 
enough compatibility with Red Hat Linux to allow easy upgrades and to 
retain compatibility with their Errata srpms. Being based off of RHEL3 
means that a machine should be able to avoid the upgrade treadmill until 
Oct 2008 since RHEL promises Errata availability for five years from 
date of initial release and RHEL3 shipped in Oct 2003.

Or more briefly, to fill the gap between Fedora and RHEL.



Tony Carter wrote:

>Anyone ever used centos (www.centos.org)?  What did you think of it?
>-Tony
>_______________________________________________
>Ale mailing list
>Ale at ale.org
>http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
>  
>


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Sun Jan 30 10:21:55 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Sun Jan 30 10:21:55 2005
Subject: [ale] hard disk DMA
In-Reply-To: <200501291915.55602.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
References: <200501291915.55602.dcorbin@machturtle.com>
Message-ID: <41FCFA67.6010009@3times25.net>

David Corbin wrote:
> I moved a drive into an existing system as the primary master.  Now, the BIOS 
> and Linux say both drives do not have DMA enabled.
> 
> Not sure why it would be different than before, but either way, how do I 
> things "back in order"?

man hdparm  look for the -d option


-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 30 12:44:48 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Sun Jan 30 12:44:48 2005
Subject: [ale] centos
In-Reply-To: <1107056867.10609.3.camel@blue>
References: <200501292015.23286.tcarter@entrusion.com>
	<41FC555C.2030609@charter.net>  <1107056867.10609.3.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <1107106795.4947.14.camel@blue>

On Sat, 2005-01-29 at 22:47 -0500, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> I did a quick look on their site but didn't find the answer to this: Is
> it safe to assume that for a non-desktop install all I would need is the
> one server iso?

To answer my own question, Yes, you only need the one iso image if you
are only installing a server version of Centos.  (Very cool)

The only thing that complaint I have, and it is minor, is that the
server version installed some gnome stuff (bonobo) Yuck!   

-Jim P.





From joh6nn at hotpop.com  Sun Jan 30 15:04:27 2005
From: joh6nn at hotpop.com (joh6nn)
Date: Sun Jan 30 15:04:27 2005
Subject: [ale] gaim perl plugins
Message-ID: <41FD3CA0.8030507@hotpop.com>

i've been trying to get a perl plugin i found for Gaim working, but so 
far, no luck.  i'm using gaim 1.1.2, and i'm not getting any error 
messages from Gaim, but i'm also not seeing the plugin listed in Gaim's 
preferences.  i've monitored gaim's debug window, but i haven't noticed 
anything that's obviously related to my problem.  i get a symbol lookup 
error when i try to run the script from the command line, but i suspect 
that's probably just because the script's not intended to be run from 
the command line.  the wording of the FAQ at the gaim site suggests that 
the perl module is enabled by default, but stuff i found through google 
suggested it wasn't.  does anyone know

1) if perl plguins are enabled by default?
2) how to enable them if they're not?
3) how to further troubleshoot this?

thanks a bunch

-joh6nn


From christopher at bergeron.com  Sun Jan 30 16:21:19 2005
From: christopher at bergeron.com (Christopher Bergeron)
Date: Sun Jan 30 16:21:19 2005
Subject: [ale] Multiple KVM switches?
Message-ID: <41FD4EB5.503@bergeron.com>

Guys - I have dual monitors and I had an idea and thought I'd run past 
you guys.

I was thinking about using 2 different KVM switches, and connecting each 
monitor output (on the video card, a matrox g450) to a separate KVM.  
The net result is to have 4 machines (4 port KVM) and 2 monitors all 
[monitor] switchable independently.  The keyboard and mouse would be 
tied to the first KVM continuously.

Let me elaborate:

I have a linksys KVM that controls monitor #1 and keyboard/mouse.  I can 
"toggle" through my first monitor/keyboard/mouse using the CTRL keys 
(double click).  Here's what I want to try doing.  By using a different 
KVM that changes screens using a DIFFERENT key sequence (ALT would be 
perfect).  By connecting my Primary monitor output to one of the KVM's 
and connecting my Secondary monitor output to a different KVM, I should 
in theory be able to switch which monitor is displaying what.

This is tricky to explain.

Can anyone recommend a KVM that switches using a keystroke other than CTRL?

Does anyone think this won't work?

Should I send a diagram?

Is there a better way to do this?  I use multiple operating systems, so 
I'm pretty much tied to a hardware solution here.

Any insight is appreciated.

Kind regards,
CB




From mpwright at speedfactory.net  Sun Jan 30 16:38:32 2005
From: mpwright at speedfactory.net (Mark Wright)
Date: Sun Jan 30 16:38:32 2005
Subject: [ale] Multiple KVM switches?
In-Reply-To: <41FD4EB5.503@bergeron.com>
References: <41FD4EB5.503@bergeron.com>
Message-ID: <A074DCC6-7306-11D9-A7F0-000A9573E16C@speedfactory.net>

All the KVMs I have used switch by tapping scroll lock twice then an up 
or down arrow key.  I would guess that most brands other than Linksys 
would be this standard.  I have several Apex KVMs and a few Belkin that 
all use scroll lock - arrow if you need some shopping ideas.

Mark

On Jan 30, 2005, at 4:16 PM, Christopher Bergeron wrote:

> Guys - I have dual monitors and I had an idea and thought I'd run past 
> you guys.
>
> I was thinking about using 2 different KVM switches, and connecting 
> each monitor output (on the video card, a matrox g450) to a separate 
> KVM.  The net result is to have 4 machines (4 port KVM) and 2 monitors 
> all [monitor] switchable independently.  The keyboard and mouse would 
> be tied to the first KVM continuously.
>
> Let me elaborate:
>
> I have a linksys KVM that controls monitor #1 and keyboard/mouse.  I 
> can "toggle" through my first monitor/keyboard/mouse using the CTRL 
> keys (double click).  Here's what I want to try doing.  By using a 
> different KVM that changes screens using a DIFFERENT key sequence (ALT 
> would be perfect).  By connecting my Primary monitor output to one of 
> the KVM's and connecting my Secondary monitor output to a different 
> KVM, I should in theory be able to switch which monitor is displaying 
> what.
>
> This is tricky to explain.
>
> Can anyone recommend a KVM that switches using a keystroke other than 
> CTRL?
>
> Does anyone think this won't work?
>
> Should I send a diagram?
>
> Is there a better way to do this?  I use multiple operating systems, 
> so I'm pretty much tied to a hardware solution here.
>
> Any insight is appreciated.
>
> Kind regards,
> CB
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>


From greg.freemyer at gmail.com  Sun Jan 30 17:11:18 2005
From: greg.freemyer at gmail.com (Greg Freemyer)
Date: Sun Jan 30 17:11:18 2005
Subject: [ale] Multiple KVM switches?
In-Reply-To: <41FD4EB5.503@bergeron.com>
References: <41FD4EB5.503@bergeron.com>
Message-ID: <87f94c37050130140569444069@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 16:16:37 -0500, Christopher Bergeron
<christopher at bergeron.com> wrote:
> Guys - I have dual monitors and I had an idea and thought I'd run past
> you guys.
> 
> I was thinking about using 2 different KVM switches, and connecting each
> monitor output (on the video card, a matrox g450) to a separate KVM.
> The net result is to have 4 machines (4 port KVM) and 2 monitors all
> [monitor] switchable independently.  The keyboard and mouse would be
> tied to the first KVM continuously.
> 
> Let me elaborate:
> 
> I have a linksys KVM that controls monitor #1 and keyboard/mouse.  I can
> "toggle" through my first monitor/keyboard/mouse using the CTRL keys
> (double click).  Here's what I want to try doing.  By using a different
> KVM that changes screens using a DIFFERENT key sequence (ALT would be
> perfect).  By connecting my Primary monitor output to one of the KVM's
> and connecting my Secondary monitor output to a different KVM, I should
> in theory be able to switch which monitor is displaying what.
> 
> This is tricky to explain.
> 
> Can anyone recommend a KVM that switches using a keystroke other than CTRL?
> 
> Does anyone think this won't work?
> 
> Should I send a diagram?
> 
> Is there a better way to do this?  I use multiple operating systems, so
> I'm pretty much tied to a hardware solution here.
> 
> Any insight is appreciated.
> 
> Kind regards,
> CB
I don't know if you have any real budget to work with, but I've used a
16x4 KVM from Rose (IIRC).

It was great, up to 16 machines connected to 4 KVM setups.  All 4
could be on the same machine, or on 4 random machines.  We used this
setup in a lab were each of the servers had unique hardware setups. 
We were doing T1/E1 R&D, so we needed lots of different test setups
available.

Greg
-- 
Greg Freemyer


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Sun Jan 30 18:19:47 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Sun Jan 30 18:19:47 2005
Subject: [ale] centos
In-Reply-To: <1107106795.4947.14.camel@blue>
References: <200501292015.23286.tcarter@entrusion.com>	<41FC555C.2030609@charter.net>
	<1107056867.10609.3.camel@blue> <1107106795.4947.14.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <41FD6A76.9030408@3times25.net>

Jim Popovitch wrote:
> On Sat, 2005-01-29 at 22:47 -0500, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> 
>>I did a quick look on their site but didn't find the answer to this: Is
>>it safe to assume that for a non-desktop install all I would need is the
>>one server iso?
> 
> 
> To answer my own question, Yes, you only need the one iso image if you
> are only installing a server version of Centos.  (Very cool)
> 
> The only thing that complaint I have, and it is minor, is that the
> server version installed some gnome stuff (bonobo) Yuck!

'rpm -e' is your friend. :)

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Sun Jan 30 18:33:54 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Sun Jan 30 18:33:54 2005
Subject: [ale] For those thinking of taking the plunge...
Message-ID: <1107127742.16329.288.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>

Slashdot posted a link to this article concerning what it takes to be a
tech consultant. It's a great read for anyone looking at doing it. The
author really nails a lot of stuff on the head aout how to act and
present oneself as a consultant.

http://www.unixwiz.net/techtips/be-consultant.html
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From audilover at speedfactory.net  Sun Jan 30 18:37:27 2005
From: audilover at speedfactory.net (Raylynn Knight)
Date: Sun Jan 30 18:37:27 2005
Subject: [ale] Tax software for Linux
Message-ID: <1107127871.17301.3.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>

It's tax time again and I'm wondering if anyone knows of any native
Linux software for preparing and filing.




From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Sun Jan 30 18:53:16 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Sun Jan 30 18:53:16 2005
Subject: [ale] Tax software for Linux
In-Reply-To: <1107127871.17301.3.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
References: <1107127871.17301.3.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
Message-ID: <1107128913.5179.4.camel@linux.linxdev.com>

On Sun, 2005-01-30 at 18:31, Raylynn Knight wrote:
> It's tax time again and I'm wondering if anyone knows of any native
> Linux software for preparing and filing.
> 

Good luck.  Tax software takes work to keep up.  You could run Turbo Tax
under win4lin.  

> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Sun Jan 30 18:54:54 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Sun Jan 30 18:54:54 2005
Subject: [ale] centos
In-Reply-To: <41FD6A76.9030408@3times25.net>
References: <200501292015.23286.tcarter@entrusion.com>
	<41FC555C.2030609@charter.net> <1107056867.10609.3.camel@blue>
	<1107106795.4947.14.camel@blue>  <41FD6A76.9030408@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <1107129002.5179.7.camel@linux.linxdev.com>

Usually those packages are installed for a reason.  It makes me really
mad how when I install FC2 with *no* X I still have X libs and files
related.  I think it has to do with the redhat setup scripts use the
gnome XML library.  That of course can bring in other gnome libraries.
I just wish that no X meant no X.

On Sun, 2005-01-30 at 18:15, Geoffrey wrote:
> Jim Popovitch wrote:
> > On Sat, 2005-01-29 at 22:47 -0500, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> > 
> >>I did a quick look on their site but didn't find the answer to this: Is
> >>it safe to assume that for a non-desktop install all I would need is the
> >>one server iso?
> > 
> > 
> > To answer my own question, Yes, you only need the one iso image if you
> > are only installing a server version of Centos.  (Very cool)
> > 
> > The only thing that complaint I have, and it is minor, is that the
> > server version installed some gnome stuff (bonobo) Yuck!
> 
> 'rpm -e' is your friend. :)


From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com  Sun Jan 30 18:58:08 2005
From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Christopher Fowler)
Date: Sun Jan 30 18:58:08 2005
Subject: [ale] persistent mount points on removable devices
In-Reply-To: <200501300206.23032.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <200501300206.23032.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <1107129204.5179.12.camel@linux.linxdev.com>

I have SuSE 9.1 and it installs removeable media on /media/...  

I do not see a process that is running that manages this.  Maybe a
kernel driver?

On Sun, 2005-01-30 at 02:06, Jay Loden wrote:
> I have an iPod and an external CD drive and an external hard drive, all of 
> which I will be connecting to my laptop via firewire during my semester 
> abroad (starting Tuesday).  I would like to know if there is a way for me to 
> plug in my iPod, for example, and have it mount /mnt/iPod, or plug in my 
> external drive and have it mount '/mnt/maxtor' or what have you. 
> 
> This way I can use things like gtkpod, etc to mount the drive and I will be 
> able to control where it mounts without having to manually specify.  (This is 
> on Debian 2.6.8)
> 
> I don't need it to automount the drives, but I'd like to be able to, for 
> example, let gtkpod mount my iPod for me, which requires it to stay 
> consistent. I've noticed that if I remove a device and reconnect it, it often 
> comes up as a different block device...how can I get around this?  Can I set 
> labels and set fstab to mount by label? 
> 
> -Jay
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From trey at fastmail.fm  Sun Jan 30 19:11:59 2005
From: trey at fastmail.fm (Trey Sizemore)
Date: Sun Jan 30 19:11:59 2005
Subject: [ale] Can I install an rpm and specify install path?
Message-ID: <1107130023.26437.0.camel@linux.site>

I've got a source rpm of gpgme-0.3 that I want to install.  However, I
don't want it to conflict with the gpgme-0.9 that I already have
installed.  Is it possible for me to install (I assume using rpmbuild
--rebuild xxx.src.rpm) the package while specifying a path that won't
conflict with the installed gpgme?

Thanks.


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Sun Jan 30 20:11:09 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Sun Jan 30 20:11:09 2005
Subject: [ale] Tax software for Linux
In-Reply-To: <1107127871.17301.3.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
References: <1107127871.17301.3.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
Message-ID: <41FD8493.4000303@3times25.net>

Raylynn Knight wrote:
> It's tax time again and I'm wondering if anyone knows of any native
> Linux software for preparing and filing.

I don't think you'll ever get this until one of the big tax boys 
(turbotax, taxcut... decide to produce it.  There's a lot of work 
involved in producing tax forms because of the overly complex tax laws 
and associated changes.

Further, I suspect some folks are concerned with liability issues as well.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Sun Jan 30 20:16:25 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Sun Jan 30 20:16:25 2005
Subject: [ale] Can I install an rpm and specify install path?
In-Reply-To: <1107130023.26437.0.camel@linux.site>
References: <1107130023.26437.0.camel@linux.site>
Message-ID: <41FD85CC.9020308@3times25.net>

Trey Sizemore wrote:
> I've got a source rpm of gpgme-0.3 that I want to install.  However, I
> don't want it to conflict with the gpgme-0.9 that I already have
> installed.  Is it possible for me to install (I assume using rpmbuild
> --rebuild xxx.src.rpm) the package while specifying a path that won't
> conflict with the installed gpgme?

I think what you want is '--relocate OLDPATH=NEWPATH'

But, I've not used it and just scanned the man page...

--relocate OLDPATH=NEWPATH
	For relocatable binary packages, translate all file  paths  that
	start with OLDPATH in the package relocation hint(s) to NEWPATH.
	This option can be used repeatedly if several OLDPATHs  in  the 
       	package are to be relocated.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From hbbs at comcast.net  Sun Jan 30 21:08:33 2005
From: hbbs at comcast.net (hbbs at comcast.net)
Date: Sun Jan 30 21:08:33 2005
Subject: [ale] Evolution Migration 1.4 -> 2.02
Message-ID: <013120050203.16894.41FD9200000A3D25000041FE22070032019C0D0D08@comcast.net>

The Evolution docs that I've seen don't cover this seemingly straightforward operation:  moving folders and messages from a 1.4 instance of Evolution to a 2.02 version.  Simply doing an initial run of Evo to set the basic mail parameters and flying in the old ~/evolution folder in place of the one that gets created does not work, nor does it work to compy the old one into the new one.  Evo's import functions don't seem to deal with this either.  What to do?

Jeff


From mcangeli at bellsouth.net  Sun Jan 30 21:12:21 2005
From: mcangeli at bellsouth.net (mcangeli at bellsouth.net)
Date: Sun Jan 30 21:12:21 2005
Subject: [ale] Tax software for Linux
Message-ID: <20050131020732.FIFT2048.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net>

The online versions of Turbo Tax work in firefox on linux (I filed online last year that way....)


> 
> From: Christopher Fowler <cfowler at outpostsentinel.com>
> Date: 2005/01/30 Sun PM 06:48:33 EST
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts <ale at ale.org>
> Subject: Re: [ale] Tax software for Linux
> 
> On Sun, 2005-01-30 at 18:31, Raylynn Knight wrote:
> > It's tax time again and I'm wondering if anyone knows of any native
> > Linux software for preparing and filing.
> > 
> 
> Good luck.  Tax software takes work to keep up.  You could run Turbo Tax
> under win4lin.  
> 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 



From jimmyc at speedfactory.net  Sun Jan 30 21:21:50 2005
From: jimmyc at speedfactory.net (Jim Philips)
Date: Sun Jan 30 21:21:50 2005
Subject: [ale] Tax software for Linux
In-Reply-To: <20050131020732.FIFT2048.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net>
References: <20050131020732.FIFT2048.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <200501302116.58290.jimmyc@speedfactory.net>

On Sunday 30 January 2005 09:07 pm, mcangeli at bellsouth.net wrote:
> The online versions of Turbo Tax work in firefox on linux (I filed online
> last year that way....)

I did this last year too. When the process is done, you have a nice pdf file 
that's a complete record of your tax return. Not a bad way to go.


From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Sun Jan 30 21:44:18 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Sun Jan 30 21:44:18 2005
Subject: [ale] Tax software for Linux
In-Reply-To: <1107127871.17301.3.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
References: <1107127871.17301.3.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
Message-ID: <1107139151.16329.289.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>

On Sun, 2005-01-30 at 18:31 -0500, Raylynn Knight wrote:
> It's tax time again and I'm wondering if anyone knows of any native
> Linux software for preparing and filing.

Firefox runs H&R Block online tax prep with no problems :)
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> !DSPAM:41fd6eea188649831915942!
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Sun Jan 30 21:47:57 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Sun Jan 30 21:47:57 2005
Subject: [ale] Can I install an rpm and specify install path?
In-Reply-To: <1107130023.26437.0.camel@linux.site>
References: <1107130023.26437.0.camel@linux.site>
Message-ID: <1107139386.16329.293.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>

On Sun, 2005-01-30 at 19:07 -0500, Trey Sizemore wrote:
> I've got a source rpm of gpgme-0.3 that I want to install.  However, I
> don't want it to conflict with the gpgme-0.9 that I already have
> installed.  Is it possible for me to install (I assume using rpmbuild
> --rebuild xxx.src.rpm) the package while specifying a path that won't
> conflict with the installed gpgme?

you can either edit the spec file to put it somewhere else (probably not
what you want) or you can do the usual rpm_build and install it with 
rpm -ivh --relocate /usr/bin=/usr/local/bin /usr/lib=/usr/local/lib
etc...

Dig through both binaries with rpm -ql (or rpm -qpl on the uninstalled
one) to make sure what it's going to put and where.

Be aware of any path issues you may have. /usr/local/bin is usually
before /usr/bin.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> !DSPAM:41fd7733262811195711159!
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Sun Jan 30 21:51:40 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Sun Jan 30 21:51:40 2005
Subject: [ale] Evolution Migration 1.4 -> 2.02
In-Reply-To: <013120050203.16894.41FD9200000A3D25000041FE22070032019C0D0D08@comcast.net>
References: <013120050203.16894.41FD9200000A3D25000041FE22070032019C0D0D08@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1107139604.16329.298.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>

On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 02:03 +0000, hbbs at comcast.net wrote:
> The Evolution docs that I've seen don't cover this seemingly straightforward operation:  moving folders and messages from a 1.4 instance of Evolution to a 2.02 version.  Simply doing an initial run of Evo to set the basic mail parameters and flying in the old ~/evolution folder in place of the one that gets created does not work, nor does it work to compy the old one into the new one.  Evo's import functions don't seem to deal with this either.  What to do?
> 
> Jeff
It is truly a PIA. The _ONLY_ way to migrate that works is to import
each individual mail file one at a time. I have about 35 different mail
folders. It was no fun. I guess they go too busy sleeping with $Novell$
to be bothered with making a good upgrade path.

Oh, yeah. Doing an upgrade of the entire OS to a new one with evo2.x
won't do it either.

*&&%^ (*&&^ 1.5G email *%&^ )^@^ !!

> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> !DSPAM:41fd9228184021900385953!
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From ivey at gweezlebur.com  Sun Jan 30 22:04:43 2005
From: ivey at gweezlebur.com (Michael D. Ivey)
Date: Sun Jan 30 22:04:43 2005
Subject: [ale] Tax software for Linux ... FAIRTAX
In-Reply-To: <41FD8493.4000303@3times25.net>
References: <1107127871.17301.3.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
	<41FD8493.4000303@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <20050131025959.GB2040@d2eb.gweezlebur.com>

On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 08:06:27PM -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> >It's tax time again and I'm wondering if anyone knows of any native
> >Linux software for preparing and filing.
> 
> I don't think you'll ever get this until one of the big tax boys 
> (turbotax, taxcut... decide to produce it.  There's a lot of work 
> involved in producing tax forms because of the overly complex tax laws 
> and associated changes.

Would now be a good time to plug FairTax?  fairtax.org ... Make April
15th just another day.

-- 
michael d. ivey        [McQ] : "They'll need a crane to take the house
   <ivey at gweezlebur.com>     : he built for her apart."         -- TMBG
http://gweezlebur.com/~ivey/ :
 encrypted email preferred   :


From hbbs at comcast.net  Sun Jan 30 22:55:12 2005
From: hbbs at comcast.net (Jeff Hubbs)
Date: Sun Jan 30 22:55:12 2005
Subject: [ale] Evolution Migration 1.4 -> 2.02
In-Reply-To: <1107139604.16329.298.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
References: <013120050203.16894.41FD9200000A3D25000041FE22070032019C0D0D08@comcast.net>
	<1107139604.16329.298.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <1107123757.1847.5.camel@angel>

That REALLY blows.  My previous Evolution instance must have tens of
thousands of messages in it (thanks, ALE!).  At least I can just keep
the old Evo folder around and grep/regexp through it.  

I'm also concerned that Evo has gone to this one-file-holds-all-messages
thing as opposed to how it used to be, when you could change it to
one-file-per-message.  Mozilla mail burned me before because it did that
and file corruption destroyed countless messages - in fact, that's what
got me to try Evo in the first place.  

Time to thumb nose at Evo and use something more sensible?

Jeff

On Sun, 2005-01-30 at 21:46 -0500, James P. Kinney III wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 02:03 +0000, hbbs at comcast.net wrote:
> > The Evolution docs that I've seen don't cover this seemingly straightforward operation:  moving folders and messages from a 1.4 instance of Evolution to a 2.02 version.  Simply doing an initial run of Evo to set the basic mail parameters and flying in the old ~/evolution folder in place of the one that gets created does not work, nor does it work to compy the old one into the new one.  Evo's import functions don't seem to deal with this either.  What to do?
> > 
> > Jeff
> It is truly a PIA. The _ONLY_ way to migrate that works is to import
> each individual mail file one at a time. I have about 35 different mail
> folders. It was no fun. I guess they go too busy sleeping with $Novell$
> to be bothered with making a good upgrade path.
> 
> Oh, yeah. Doing an upgrade of the entire OS to a new one with evo2.x
> won't do it either.
> 
> *&&%^ (*&&^ 1.5G email *%&^ )^@^ !!
> 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> > 
> > !DSPAM:41fd9228184021900385953!
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Sun Jan 30 23:00:52 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Sun Jan 30 23:00:52 2005
Subject: [ale] Evolution Migration 1.4 -> 2.02
In-Reply-To: <1107123757.1847.5.camel@angel>
Message-ID: <mailman.69.1107144051.18563.ale@ale.org>

You could do this:

Use Evo to save all your messages to an IMAP store.  Once you upgrade, pull
them all back local from that store, and then turn IMAP off.

That's how I do it, anyways...

--J 

-----Original Message-----
From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of Jeff
Hubbs
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 5:23 PM
To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
Subject: Re: [ale] Evolution Migration 1.4 -> 2.02

That REALLY blows.  My previous Evolution instance must have tens of
thousands of messages in it (thanks, ALE!).  At least I can just keep the
old Evo folder around and grep/regexp through it.  

I'm also concerned that Evo has gone to this one-file-holds-all-messages
thing as opposed to how it used to be, when you could change it to
one-file-per-message.  Mozilla mail burned me before because it did that and
file corruption destroyed countless messages - in fact, that's what got me
to try Evo in the first place.  

Time to thumb nose at Evo and use something more sensible?

Jeff

On Sun, 2005-01-30 at 21:46 -0500, James P. Kinney III wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 02:03 +0000, hbbs at comcast.net wrote:
> > The Evolution docs that I've seen don't cover this seemingly
straightforward operation:  moving folders and messages from a 1.4 instance
of Evolution to a 2.02 version.  Simply doing an initial run of Evo to set
the basic mail parameters and flying in the old ~/evolution folder in place
of the one that gets created does not work, nor does it work to compy the
old one into the new one.  Evo's import functions don't seem to deal with
this either.  What to do?
> > 
> > Jeff
> It is truly a PIA. The _ONLY_ way to migrate that works is to import 
> each individual mail file one at a time. I have about 35 different 
> mail folders. It was no fun. I guess they go too busy sleeping with 
> $Novell$ to be bothered with making a good upgrade path.
> 
> Oh, yeah. Doing an upgrade of the entire OS to a new one with evo2.x 
> won't do it either.
> 
> *&&%^ (*&&^ 1.5G email *%&^ )^@^ !!
> 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> > 
> > !DSPAM:41fd9228184021900385953!
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

_______________________________________________
Ale mailing list
Ale at ale.org
http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.2 - Release Date: 1/28/2005
 

-- 
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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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From hbbs at comcast.net  Sun Jan 30 23:02:06 2005
From: hbbs at comcast.net (Jeff Hubbs)
Date: Sun Jan 30 23:02:06 2005
Subject: [ale] Multiple KVM switches?
In-Reply-To: <87f94c37050130140569444069@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41FD4EB5.503@bergeron.com>
	<87f94c37050130140569444069@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1107124160.1847.7.camel@angel>

Black Box also makes NxM KVMs.  Please check to see what Cybex makes.

Jeff

On Sun, 2005-01-30 at 17:05 -0500, Greg Freemyer wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 16:16:37 -0500, Christopher Bergeron
> <christopher at bergeron.com> wrote:
> > Guys - I have dual monitors and I had an idea and thought I'd run past
> > you guys.
> > 
> > I was thinking about using 2 different KVM switches, and connecting each
> > monitor output (on the video card, a matrox g450) to a separate KVM.
> > The net result is to have 4 machines (4 port KVM) and 2 monitors all
> > [monitor] switchable independently.  The keyboard and mouse would be
> > tied to the first KVM continuously.
> > 
> > Let me elaborate:
> > 
> > I have a linksys KVM that controls monitor #1 and keyboard/mouse.  I can
> > "toggle" through my first monitor/keyboard/mouse using the CTRL keys
> > (double click).  Here's what I want to try doing.  By using a different
> > KVM that changes screens using a DIFFERENT key sequence (ALT would be
> > perfect).  By connecting my Primary monitor output to one of the KVM's
> > and connecting my Secondary monitor output to a different KVM, I should
> > in theory be able to switch which monitor is displaying what.
> > 
> > This is tricky to explain.
> > 
> > Can anyone recommend a KVM that switches using a keystroke other than CTRL?
> > 
> > Does anyone think this won't work?
> > 
> > Should I send a diagram?
> > 
> > Is there a better way to do this?  I use multiple operating systems, so
> > I'm pretty much tied to a hardware solution here.
> > 
> > Any insight is appreciated.
> > 
> > Kind regards,
> > CB
> I don't know if you have any real budget to work with, but I've used a
> 16x4 KVM from Rose (IIRC).
> 
> It was great, up to 16 machines connected to 4 KVM setups.  All 4
> could be on the same machine, or on 4 random machines.  We used this
> setup in a lab were each of the servers had unique hardware setups. 
> We were doing T1/E1 R&D, so we needed lots of different test setups
> available.
> 
> Greg


From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Sun Jan 30 23:16:33 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Sun Jan 30 23:16:33 2005
Subject: [ale] Evolution Migration 1.4 -> 2.02
In-Reply-To: <1107123757.1847.5.camel@angel>
References: <013120050203.16894.41FD9200000A3D25000041FE22070032019C0D0D08@comcast.net>
	<1107139604.16329.298.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
	<1107123757.1847.5.camel@angel>
Message-ID: <1107144702.16329.311.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>

On Sun, 2005-01-30 at 22:22 +0000, Jeff Hubbs wrote:
> That REALLY blows.  My previous Evolution instance must have tens of
> thousands of messages in it (thanks, ALE!).  At least I can just keep
> the old Evo folder around and grep/regexp through it.  
> 
> I'm also concerned that Evo has gone to this one-file-holds-all-messages
> thing as opposed to how it used to be, when you could change it to
> one-file-per-message.  Mozilla mail burned me before because it did that
> and file corruption destroyed countless messages - in fact, that's what
> got me to try Evo in the first place.  
> 
> Time to thumb nose at Evo and use something more sensible?

I'm thinking about it. That said, it is posible to slurp over all the
old mail ino the new evolution. You have to create new folders first
than import a single file at a time. It brings it over perfectly intact
but it will take a while on the bigger mbox files as it goes in and
builds the index files from scratch.

Evo, fortunately, has not gone to the one-file-for-all crap. I have a
floobazillion folders and filters that auto sort my email. I still have
them all. They are still in the same ~/.evolution/ directory as before.
But the old one had the local directory that had everything and the new
one has a mail/local setup. I did not try just copying the structure and
mbox files from the old local to the new mail/local. That might have
actually worked (NOW I think about doing it ?!?!?!).

The big thing that is _still_ missing is an intelligent way move the
filters around to adjust their order. New filters go to the bottom of
the list. That is bad. That's where all the old PLONK filters are ( I
can keep a virtual grudge indefinitely!). So I have to move the new
filter up ONE LINE PER KEY PRESS!!! 

As soon as the Mozilla Sunbird calendar is a bit better...

And syncs with my Zaurus/Palm/new gizmo...
> 
> Jeff
> 
> On Sun, 2005-01-30 at 21:46 -0500, James P. Kinney III wrote:
> > On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 02:03 +0000, hbbs at comcast.net wrote:
> > > The Evolution docs that I've seen don't cover this seemingly straightforward operation:  moving folders and messages from a 1.4 instance of Evolution to a 2.02 version.  Simply doing an initial run of Evo to set the basic mail parameters and flying in the old ~/evolution folder in place of the one that gets created does not work, nor does it work to compy the old one into the new one.  Evo's import functions don't seem to deal with this either.  What to do?
> > > 
> > > Jeff
> > It is truly a PIA. The _ONLY_ way to migrate that works is to import
> > each individual mail file one at a time. I have about 35 different mail
> > folders. It was no fun. I guess they go too busy sleeping with $Novell$
> > to be bothered with making a good upgrade path.
> > 
> > Oh, yeah. Doing an upgrade of the entire OS to a new one with evo2.x
> > won't do it either.
> > 
> > *&&%^ (*&&^ 1.5G email *%&^ )^@^ !!
> > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ale mailing list
> > > Ale at ale.org
> > > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> > > 
> > > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> !DSPAM:41fdab3983197382877123!
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From pmazer at gmail.com  Sun Jan 30 23:27:05 2005
From: pmazer at gmail.com (pmazer at gmail.com)
Date: Sun Jan 30 23:27:05 2005
Subject: [ale] Document
Message-ID: <mailman.70.1107145624.18563.ale@ale.org>

Important details!

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From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 31 00:56:43 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon Jan 31 00:56:43 2005
Subject: [ale] Evolution Migration 1.4 -> 2.02
In-Reply-To: <1107139604.16329.298.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
References: <013120050203.16894.41FD9200000A3D25000041FE22070032019C0D0D08@comcast.net>
	<1107139604.16329.298.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <1107150701.4159.12.camel@blue>

I had zero problems moving from Evolution 1.4 (RHEL WS3) to Evolution
2.?? (Debian Unstable) 8 or 9 months ago.  I had about 1GB of email
messages in multiple nested folders, and all I had to do was start up
Evolution.  It found the files and asked to convert them.  At that time
Evolution 1.4 stored config files and email in ~/evolution, after the
upgrade Evolution 2.x used ~/.evolution.  If my experience was anything
like James' I would have switched to TBird.  I don't care to research
this, but the ALE archives should have email headers that show the
before and after versions of Evolution that I was using.

Since moving from RHEL to Debian Unstable, I have even downgraded to
Debian Testing, all with the same ~/.evolution config and datafiles.  I
seem to remember that after the move from RHEL I had to re-add my pop3s
account settings.  My primary reason for moving to Evo 2.0 was to test
the Exchange integration.

-Jim P.


On Sun, 2005-01-30 at 21:46 -0500, James P. Kinney III wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 02:03 +0000, hbbs at comcast.net wrote:
> > The Evolution docs that I've seen don't cover this seemingly straightforward operation:  moving folders and messages from a 1.4 instance of Evolution to a 2.02 version.  Simply doing an initial run of Evo to set the basic mail parameters and flying in the old ~/evolution folder in place of the one that gets created does not work, nor does it work to compy the old one into the new one.  Evo's import functions don't seem to deal with this either.  What to do?
> > 
> > Jeff
> It is truly a PIA. The _ONLY_ way to migrate that works is to import
> each individual mail file one at a time. I have about 35 different mail
> folders. It was no fun. I guess they go too busy sleeping with $Novell$
> to be bothered with making a good upgrade path.
> 
> Oh, yeah. Doing an upgrade of the entire OS to a new one with evo2.x
> won't do it either.
> 
> *&&%^ (*&&^ 1.5G email *%&^ )^@^ !!
> 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> > 
> > !DSPAM:41fd9228184021900385953!
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 31 01:11:40 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon Jan 31 01:11:40 2005
Subject: [ale] centos
In-Reply-To: <41FD6A76.9030408@3times25.net>
References: <200501292015.23286.tcarter@entrusion.com>
	<41FC555C.2030609@charter.net> <1107056867.10609.3.camel@blue>
	<1107106795.4947.14.camel@blue>  <41FD6A76.9030408@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <1107151288.4159.20.camel@blue>

On Sun, 2005-01-30 at 18:15 -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> Jim Popovitch wrote:
> > On Sat, 2005-01-29 at 22:47 -0500, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> > 
> >>I did a quick look on their site but didn't find the answer to this: Is
> >>it safe to assume that for a non-desktop install all I would need is the
> >>one server iso?
> > 
> > 
> > To answer my own question, Yes, you only need the one iso image if you
> > are only installing a server version of Centos.  (Very cool)
> > 
> > The only thing that complaint I have, and it is minor, is that the
> > server version installed some gnome stuff (bonobo) Yuck!
> 
> 'rpm -e' is your friend. :)

Actually it was: rpm -e portmap nfs-utils ypbind fam gnome-vfs2 yp-tools
redhat-config-nfs libgnome libbonoboui gnome-python2-bonobo libgnomeui
gnome-python2 redhat-config-httpd redhat-config-bind
redhat-config-services redhat-config-network redhat-config-packages cups
redhat-lsb redhat-config-printer redhat-config-printer-gui at mdadm apmd

Why the heck all that is needed for an internet server install is beyond
me (not really).  I guess that RH/Centos just throw cups and portmap/nfs
stuff in there in the rare case that someone wants to build an NFS or
printer server.  I would think that the likelihood is greater that when
some installs the server version they DON'T want cups, portmap/nfs as
well as apmd.  Really, what the heck good is apmd on a server?

-Jim P.

 



From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 31 01:17:07 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon Jan 31 01:17:07 2005
Subject: [ale] Tax software for Linux
In-Reply-To: <20050131020732.FIFT2048.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net>
References: <20050131020732.FIFT2048.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <1107151741.4159.27.camel@blue>

On Sun, 2005-01-30 at 21:07 -0500, mcangeli at bellsouth.net wrote:
> The online versions of Turbo Tax work in firefox on linux (I filed 
> online last year that way....)

TurboTax, in some sort of drug-induced hallucinating mentality, felt
that this year they would restrict TT online to just IE and Netscape
browsers.  Their forums are alive with complaints about this, however
the solution is to change your UserAgent settings to emulate Firefox on
Windows.  However, in Firefox there is no built-in way to change your
UserAgent, you will need an Extension to do that.

Check out this URL for details:
http://www.shaftek.org/blog/archives/000223.html

I've been working on my return for a few days now using Firefox 1.0 on
Linux, all is working well.  

-Jim P. 


From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Mon Jan 31 01:47:32 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Mon Jan 31 01:47:32 2005
Subject: [ale] centos
In-Reply-To: <1107151288.4159.20.camel@blue>
References: <200501292015.23286.tcarter@entrusion.com>
	<41FC555C.2030609@charter.net> <1107056867.10609.3.camel@blue>
	<1107106795.4947.14.camel@blue>  <41FD6A76.9030408@3times25.net>
	<1107151288.4159.20.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <1107152748.16329.347.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>

On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 01:01 -0500, Jim Popovitch wrote:

> 
> Actually it was: rpm -e portmap nfs-utils ypbind fam gnome-vfs2 yp-tools
> redhat-config-nfs libgnome libbonoboui gnome-python2-bonobo libgnomeui
> gnome-python2 redhat-config-httpd redhat-config-bind
> redhat-config-services redhat-config-network redhat-config-packages cups
> redhat-lsb redhat-config-printer redhat-config-printer-gui at mdadm apmd
> 
> Why the heck all that is needed for an internet server install is beyond
> me (not really).  I guess that RH/Centos just throw cups and portmap/nfs
> stuff in there in the rare case that someone wants to build an NFS or
> printer server.  I would think that the likelihood is greater that when
> some installs the server version they DON'T want cups, portmap/nfs as
> well as apmd.  Really, what the heck good is apmd on a server?

 why is pcmcia running on a server? I can understand cups (loads of
samba servers doing printing) and NFS (it _is_ a service. NFS v4 is a
big improvement). 

I think the reason all of theX stuff is installed by default on a server
is for console use. The default runlevel is 3, but you _can_ run startx
if you need/want to. Not all of the gui tools for admin have as
functional of an equivalent in the ncurses version. 

But then, a REAL admin doesn't use a mouse and starts to twitch and
drool a bit when they are remove from a command line...
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From audilover at speedfactory.net  Mon Jan 31 02:42:05 2005
From: audilover at speedfactory.net (Raylynn Knight)
Date: Mon Jan 31 02:42:05 2005
Subject: [ale] Evolution Migration 1.4 -> 2.02
In-Reply-To: <013120050203.16894.41FD9200000A3D25000041FE22070032019C0D0D08@comcast.net>
References: <013120050203.16894.41FD9200000A3D25000041FE22070032019C0D0D08@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1107155952.22114.4.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>

On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 02:03 +0000, hbbs at comcast.net wrote:
> The Evolution docs that I've seen don't cover this seemingly straightforward operation:  
> moving folders and messages from a 1.4 instance of Evolution to a 2.02 version.  Simply 
> doing an initial run of Evo to set the basic mail parameters and flying in the old ~/evolution 
> folder in place of the one that gets created does not work, nor does it work to compy the old 
> one into the new one.  Evo's import functions don't seem to deal with this either.  What to do?
> 
Not sure when the transition was made, but it was seamless for me.  I've
been using Evolution for years.  Moved from RedHat to SuSE to Mandrake
on my main box.  I now have Evolution 2.03 and I've never done anything
more than leave my home directory alone when moving from one distro to
another or upgrading from one release to the next.

Ray



From audilover at speedfactory.net  Mon Jan 31 02:46:00 2005
From: audilover at speedfactory.net (Raylynn Knight)
Date: Mon Jan 31 02:46:00 2005
Subject: [ale] Tax software for Linux
In-Reply-To: <20050131020732.FIFT2048.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net>
References: <20050131020732.FIFT2048.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net>
Message-ID: <1107156071.22114.7.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>

On Sun, 2005-01-30 at 21:07 -0500, mcangeli at bellsouth.net wrote:
> The online versions of Turbo Tax work in firefox on linux (I filed online last year that way....)
> 
> 
> > 
I'm not that excited about giving my tax information to the government,
let alone a third party.  Once Intuit has my tax data, what else are
they going to do with it?

Ray



From jsheets at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 31 04:49:17 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Mon Jan 31 04:49:17 2005
Subject: [ale] Tax software for Linux
In-Reply-To: <1107156071.22114.7.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
References: <20050131020732.FIFT2048.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net>
	<1107156071.22114.7.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
Message-ID: <1107164663.5863.0.camel@wagon>

I've filled out my taxes with them every year for about six years.  To
this day, they can't seem to maintain my information from one year to
the next.....so I'd day your info is safe.

LOL

--J


On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 02:21 -0500, Raylynn Knight wrote:
> On Sun, 2005-01-30 at 21:07 -0500, mcangeli at bellsouth.net wrote:
> > The online versions of Turbo Tax work in firefox on linux (I filed online last year that way....)
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> I'm not that excited about giving my tax information to the government,
> let alone a third party.  Once Intuit has my tax data, what else are
> they going to do with it?
> 
> Ray
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Mon Jan 31 07:33:04 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Mon Jan 31 07:33:04 2005
Subject: [ale] Tax software for Linux
In-Reply-To: <1107164663.5863.0.camel@wagon>
References: <20050131020732.FIFT2048.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net>	<1107156071.22114.7.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
	<1107164663.5863.0.camel@wagon>
Message-ID: <41FE2464.4000607@3times25.net>

Jerald Sheets wrote:
> I've filled out my taxes with them every year for about six years.  To
> this day, they can't seem to maintain my information from one year to
> the next.....so I'd day your info is safe.

Hmm, before starting my own business, I used them for a few years and 
never had a problem with recovering my old data.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From ccthomas at joimail.com  Mon Jan 31 08:41:51 2005
From: ccthomas at joimail.com (Courtney Thomas)
Date: Mon Jan 31 08:41:51 2005
Subject: [ale] Multiple KVM switches?
References: <41FD4EB5.503@bergeron.com>	<87f94c37050130140569444069@mail.gmail.com>
	<1107124160.1847.7.camel@angel>
Message-ID: <41FE33D1.7020806@joimail.com>

I've used 10 machines connected to 2 Belkin KVMs for years. The Belkins 
were cheap is why I chose them. No problems. But I don't try to keyboard 
toggle through them, though this may be possible [dunno], rather push a 
button on the KVM. But then I don't often need to switch screens. My 
only motivation was to not buy 10 mice, monitors and keyboards  :-)

HTH,
Courtney

Jeff Hubbs wrote:

> Black Box also makes NxM KVMs.  Please check to see what Cybex makes.
> 
> Jeff
> 
> On Sun, 2005-01-30 at 17:05 -0500, Greg Freemyer wrote:
> 
>>On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 16:16:37 -0500, Christopher Bergeron
>><christopher at bergeron.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Guys - I have dual monitors and I had an idea and thought I'd run past
>>>you guys.
>>>
>>>I was thinking about using 2 different KVM switches, and connecting each
>>>monitor output (on the video card, a matrox g450) to a separate KVM.
>>>The net result is to have 4 machines (4 port KVM) and 2 monitors all
>>>[monitor] switchable independently.  The keyboard and mouse would be
>>>tied to the first KVM continuously.
>>>
>>>Let me elaborate:
>>>
>>>I have a linksys KVM that controls monitor #1 and keyboard/mouse.  I can
>>>"toggle" through my first monitor/keyboard/mouse using the CTRL keys
>>>(double click).  Here's what I want to try doing.  By using a different
>>>KVM that changes screens using a DIFFERENT key sequence (ALT would be
>>>perfect).  By connecting my Primary monitor output to one of the KVM's
>>>and connecting my Secondary monitor output to a different KVM, I should
>>>in theory be able to switch which monitor is displaying what.
>>>
>>>This is tricky to explain.
>>>
>>>Can anyone recommend a KVM that switches using a keystroke other than CTRL?
>>>
>>>Does anyone think this won't work?
>>>
>>>Should I send a diagram?
>>>
>>>Is there a better way to do this?  I use multiple operating systems, so
>>>I'm pretty much tied to a hardware solution here.
>>>
>>>Any insight is appreciated.
>>>
>>>Kind regards,
>>>CB
>>>
>>I don't know if you have any real budget to work with, but I've used a
>>16x4 KVM from Rose (IIRC).
>>
>>It was great, up to 16 machines connected to 4 KVM setups.  All 4
>>could be on the same machine, or on 4 random machines.  We used this
>>setup in a lab were each of the servers had unique hardware setups. 
>>We were doing T1/E1 R&D, so we needed lots of different test setups
>>available.
>>
>>Greg
>>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> 


-- 
s/v Mutiny
Rhodes Bounty II
lying Oriental, NC
WDB5619


From hbbs at comcast.net  Mon Jan 31 08:58:08 2005
From: hbbs at comcast.net (Jeff Hubbs)
Date: Mon Jan 31 08:58:08 2005
Subject: [ale] Evolution Migration 1.4 -> 2.02
In-Reply-To: <1107144702.16329.311.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
References: <013120050203.16894.41FD9200000A3D25000041FE22070032019C0D0D08@comcast.net>
	<1107139604.16329.298.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
	<1107123757.1847.5.camel@angel>
	<1107144702.16329.311.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <1107159942.11961.6.camel@angel>

On Sun, 2005-01-30 at 23:11 -0500, James P. Kinney III wrote:

> Evo, fortunately, has not gone to the one-file-for-all crap. 

That's not what I'm seeing.  In my old Evo, I could right-click on
folders and a dialog would let me choose mbox, mh, etc.  That
capability's gone, and drilling into the new Evo's .evolution folder
shows that it's become a single, albeit human-readable, text file per
folder.  I am wondering, however, what would happen if I just
concatenated all of the message files from old Evo's folders onto the
end of the corresponding new one big file.

Jeff


From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Mon Jan 31 09:22:21 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Mon Jan 31 09:22:21 2005
Subject: [ale] Evolution Migration 1.4 -> 2.02
In-Reply-To: <1107159942.11961.6.camel@angel>
References: <013120050203.16894.41FD9200000A3D25000041FE22070032019C0D0D08@comcast.net>
	<1107139604.16329.298.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
	<1107123757.1847.5.camel@angel>
	<1107144702.16329.311.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
	<1107159942.11961.6.camel@angel>
Message-ID: <1107181013.16329.349.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>

On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 08:25 +0000, Jeff Hubbs wrote:
> On Sun, 2005-01-30 at 23:11 -0500, James P. Kinney III wrote:
> 
> > Evo, fortunately, has not gone to the one-file-for-all crap. 
> 
> That's not what I'm seeing.  In my old Evo, I could right-click on
> folders and a dialog would let me choose mbox, mh, etc.  That
> capability's gone, and drilling into the new Evo's .evolution folder
> shows that it's become a single, albeit human-readable, text file per
> folder.  I am wondering, however, what would happen if I just
> concatenated all of the message files from old Evo's folders onto the
> end of the corresponding new one big file.

keep it as mbox format and it'll probably work. (mutters something about
backups and system crashes...)
> 
> Jeff
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> !DSPAM:41fe388084761302044881!
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From mhirsch at nubridges.com  Mon Jan 31 10:18:46 2005
From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael Hirsch)
Date: Mon Jan 31 10:18:46 2005
Subject: [ale] OT - Open via FTP, my replacement for UltraEdit
Message-ID: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CFBE@germanium.numethods.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
Nathan
> J. Underwood


> A lot of what I do involves making simple updates / changes to client
> websites (change  a price, change a picture, etc.), and the ability in
> UltraEdit to just open a file remotely [via FTP] and then save it
> remotely [via FTP] was very nice.  I had been looking for something in
> Linux that replicated that ability.  Specifically, what I was looking
> for was something that had an 'open from ftp' or 'save to ftp' button.
> What I found, though, was even better.  With any of the various text
> editors available in Linux, I can just choose 'Open', and then open an
> FTP location.  The one that I've found that seems to best suit my
needs
> is KDevelop.  Anyway, just thought I'd stick that out there in case
> someone else was having the same problem.

That is one of my favorite features.  Working in a setting with dozens
of systems I might need to work on, it is pretty cool to be able to open
a file on any machine.  Or just copy files around via my file browser.
The Windows people have to find a sftp client, or an ftp client, and I
can just use konqueror for everything.  It gives then UI envy.  :-)  I
think that GNOME would work similarly to KDE.



From fletch at phydeaux.org  Mon Jan 31 11:26:23 2005
From: fletch at phydeaux.org (Fletch)
Date: Mon Jan 31 11:26:23 2005
Subject: [ale] gaim perl plugins
In-Reply-To: <41FD3CA0.8030507@hotpop.com> (joh6nn@hotpop.com's message of
	"Sun, 30 Jan 2005 14:59:28 -0500")
References: <41FD3CA0.8030507@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <m23bwhin7e.fsf@freebie.phydeaux.org>

>>>>> "joh6nn" == joh6nn  <joh6nn at hotpop.com> writes:

[...]


    joh6nn> 1) if perl plguins are enabled by default?  2) how to
    joh6nn> enable them if they're not?  3) how to further
    joh6nn> troubleshoot this?

I use iChat or AddiumX these days, but I want to say:

1) I don't remember, but I want to say no
2) Check the preferences

3) have your plugin print to STDERR in its init routine[1] and run
   gaim from a terminal (i.e. don't start it from an icon or a
   "Run..."dialog) and see if that output shows up there.  Barring
   that, open the controling terminal explicitly[2] and print to
   that instead.  Or both.


[1]  something like: print STDERR qq{I LIVE!\n};

[2]  open( TTY, "/dev/tty" ) or die "open tty: $!\n";
     print TTY qq{I LIVE!\n};
     close( TTY );

-- 
Fletch                | "If you find my answers frightening,       __`'/|
fletch at phydeaux.org|  Vincent, you should cease askin'          \ o.O'
                      |  scary questions." -- Jules                =(___)=
                      |                                               U


From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Mon Jan 31 12:16:11 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Mon Jan 31 12:16:11 2005
Subject: [ale] OT - Open via FTP, my replacement for UltraEdit
In-Reply-To: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CFBE@germanium.numethods.com>
References: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465CFBE@germanium.numethods.com>
Message-ID: <1107191470.16329.355.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>

On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 10:13 -0500, Michael Hirsch wrote:
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
> Nathan
> > J. Underwood
> 
> 
> > A lot of what I do involves making simple updates / changes to client
> > websites (change  a price, change a picture, etc.), and the ability in
> > UltraEdit to just open a file remotely [via FTP] and then save it
> > remotely [via FTP] was very nice.  I had been looking for something in
> > Linux that replicated that ability.  Specifically, what I was looking
> > for was something that had an 'open from ftp' or 'save to ftp' button.
> > What I found, though, was even better.  With any of the various text
> > editors available in Linux, I can just choose 'Open', and then open an
> > FTP location.  The one that I've found that seems to best suit my
> needs
> > is KDevelop.  Anyway, just thought I'd stick that out there in case
> > someone else was having the same problem.
> 
> That is one of my favorite features.  Working in a setting with dozens
> of systems I might need to work on, it is pretty cool to be able to open
> a file on any machine.  Or just copy files around via my file browser.
> The Windows people have to find a sftp client, or an ftp client, and I
> can just use konqueror for everything.  It gives then UI envy.  :-)  I
> think that GNOME would work similarly to KDE.
> 

Having tinkered with KDevelop for all of 10 minutes, I'm having to
reconsider my gnome desktop. It a seriously well designed tool.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> 
> !DSPAM:41fe4b6f257861417311770!
-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
-------------- next part --------------
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From mhirsch at nubridges.com  Mon Jan 31 12:17:38 2005
From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael Hirsch)
Date: Mon Jan 31 12:17:38 2005
Subject: [ale] persistent mount points on removable devices
Message-ID: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465D01F@germanium.numethods.com>

Udev is the way to go--it is not gentoo specific.  Mandrake has a "udev"
package, and I thing SuSE does too., so that is the name to search for.

A few months back Linux Journal had an article about it.  If anyone
would like to give and ALE Central talk on udev, I'd look favorably on
them.

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
David
> Corbin
> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 8:18 AM
> To: ale at ale.org; jloden at toughguy.net
> Subject: Re: [ale] persistent mount points on removable devices
> 
> On Gentoo, there is a "udev" package that is a replacement for devfs.
It
> allows you configure specific devices to fixed filenames.  I don't
know if
> this is gentoo specific, part of the linux kernel, or an independent
> project.
> 
> On Sunday 30 January 2005 02:06 am, Jay Loden wrote:
> > I have an iPod and an external CD drive and an external hard drive,
all
> of
> > which I will be connecting to my laptop via firewire during my
semester
> > abroad (starting Tuesday).  I would like to know if there is a way
for
> me
> > to plug in my iPod, for example, and have it mount /mnt/iPod, or
plug in
> my
> > external drive and have it mount '/mnt/maxtor' or what have you.
> >
> > This way I can use things like gtkpod, etc to mount the drive and I
will
> be
> > able to control where it mounts without having to manually specify.
> (This
> > is on Debian 2.6.8)
> >
> > I don't need it to automount the drives, but I'd like to be able to,
for
> > example, let gtkpod mount my iPod for me, which requires it to stay
> > consistent. I've noticed that if I remove a device and reconnect it,
it
> > often comes up as a different block device...how can I get around
this?
> > Can I set labels and set fstab to mount by label?
> >
> > -Jay
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale



From jknapka at kneuro.net  Mon Jan 31 12:36:09 2005
From: jknapka at kneuro.net (Joe Knapka)
Date: Mon Jan 31 12:36:09 2005
Subject: [ale] Tax software for Linux
In-Reply-To: <1107139151.16329.289.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
References: <1107127871.17301.3.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
	<1107139151.16329.289.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>
Message-ID: <m3r7k1tsum.fsf@telzey.localdomain>

"James P. Kinney III" <jkinney at localnetsolutions.com> writes:

> On Sun, 2005-01-30 at 18:31 -0500, Raylynn Knight wrote:
> > It's tax time again and I'm wondering if anyone knows of any native
> > Linux software for preparing and filing.
> 
> Firefox runs H&R Block online tax prep with no problems :)

I've been using <http://www.easytaxreturn.com> for a few years via
Mozilla-under-Linux with no problems, as well.

Cheers,

-- Joe

-- 
No sig for you today.
--
pub  1024D/BA496D2B 2004-05-14 Joseph A Knapka
     Key fingerprint = 3BA2 FE72 3CBA D4C2 21E4  C9B4 3230 94D7 BA49 6D2B
If you really want to get my attention, send mail to
jknapka .at. kneuro .dot. net.


From dcorbin at enttek.com  Mon Jan 31 12:43:51 2005
From: dcorbin at enttek.com (David Corbin)
Date: Mon Jan 31 12:43:51 2005
Subject: [ale] Tax software for Linux ... FAIRTAX
In-Reply-To: <20050131025959.GB2040@d2eb.gweezlebur.com>
References: <1107127871.17301.3.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
	<41FD8493.4000303@3times25.net>
	<20050131025959.GB2040@d2eb.gweezlebur.com>
Message-ID: <200501311236.52415.dcorbin@enttek.com>

On Sunday 30 January 2005 09:59 pm, Michael D. Ivey wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 08:06:27PM -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> > >It's tax time again and I'm wondering if anyone knows of any native
> > >Linux software for preparing and filing.
> >
> > I don't think you'll ever get this until one of the big tax boys
> > (turbotax, taxcut... decide to produce it.  There's a lot of work
> > involved in producing tax forms because of the overly complex tax laws
> > and associated changes.
>
> Would now be a good time to plug FairTax?  fairtax.org ... Make April
> 15th just another day.

Yes, it would.  Why don't you do so... :)


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 31 13:25:36 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon Jan 31 13:25:36 2005
Subject: [ale] Tax software for Linux ... FAIRTAX
In-Reply-To: <200501311236.52415.dcorbin@enttek.com>
References: <1107127871.17301.3.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
	<41FD8493.4000303@3times25.net>
	<20050131025959.GB2040@d2eb.gweezlebur.com>
	<200501311236.52415.dcorbin@enttek.com>
Message-ID: <1107195576.7845.9.camel@blue>

On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 12:36 -0500, David Corbin wrote:
> On Sunday 30 January 2005 09:59 pm, Michael D. Ivey wrote:
> > On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 08:06:27PM -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> > > >It's tax time again and I'm wondering if anyone knows of any native
> > > >Linux software for preparing and filing.
> > >
> > > I don't think you'll ever get this until one of the big tax boys
> > > (turbotax, taxcut... decide to produce it.  There's a lot of work
> > > involved in producing tax forms because of the overly complex tax laws
> > > and associated changes.
> >
> > Would now be a good time to plug FairTax?  fairtax.org ... Make April
> > 15th just another day.
> 
> Yes, it would.  Why don't you do so... :)

Forget about a fair tax (is their really such a thing?) lets push for
zero personal income tax and only tax profitable businesses as they,
bound by shareholder obligations, are motivated to produce a profit.
Profitable businesses would *save* money by reducing employee
pay/overhead by not having to pay employees money that is withheld for
payroll taxes.  

In all reality the current tax system is a shell game.  The Justice Dept
calls it money laundering when private people do what the US Congress
does (on our dime no less).

-JIm P. 


From charles.shapiro at numethods.com  Mon Jan 31 14:06:20 2005
From: charles.shapiro at numethods.com (Charles Shapiro)
Date: Mon Jan 31 14:06:20 2005
Subject: [ale] Tax software for Linux ... FAIRTAX
In-Reply-To: <1107195576.7845.9.camel@blue>
References: <1107127871.17301.3.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
	<41FD8493.4000303@3times25.net>
	<20050131025959.GB2040@d2eb.gweezlebur.com>
	<200501311236.52415.dcorbin@enttek.com> <1107195576.7845.9.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <1107198086.25924.24.camel@cshapiro.numethods.com>

Hitler and the Nazis had income taxes.

-- CHS

On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 13:19, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 12:36 -0500, David Corbin wrote:
> > On Sunday 30 January 2005 09:59 pm, Michael D. Ivey wrote:
> > > On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 08:06:27PM -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> > > > >It's tax time again and I'm wondering if anyone knows of any native
> > > > >Linux software for preparing and filing.
> > > >
> > > > I don't think you'll ever get this until one of the big tax boys
> > > > (turbotax, taxcut... decide to produce it.  There's a lot of work
> > > > involved in producing tax forms because of the overly complex tax laws
> > > > and associated changes.
> > >
> > > Would now be a good time to plug FairTax?  fairtax.org ... Make April
> > > 15th just another day.
> > 
> > Yes, it would.  Why don't you do so... :)
> 
> Forget about a fair tax (is their really such a thing?) lets push for
> zero personal income tax and only tax profitable businesses as they,
> bound by shareholder obligations, are motivated to produce a profit.
> Profitable businesses would *save* money by reducing employee
> pay/overhead by not having to pay employees money that is withheld for
> payroll taxes.  
> 
> In all reality the current tax system is a shell game.  The Justice Dept
> calls it money laundering when private people do what the US Congress
> does (on our dime no less).
> 
> -JIm P. 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From ppolstra at gmail.com  Mon Jan 31 14:14:53 2005
From: ppolstra at gmail.com (Philip Polstra)
Date: Mon Jan 31 14:14:53 2005
Subject: [ale] Java with Firefox on FC3
Message-ID: <1beea75e05013111095847df55@mail.gmail.com>

I can't seem to get Java to work under FC3 when using Firefox.  I can
download the JRE and creat a link in the Plugins directory, but it
still refuses to run my applets.  This is especially annoying given
that this is on machines I'm using for my Java programming class. 
Anyone have sucess getting this to work?


From mgolding at sdf.lonestar.org  Mon Jan 31 14:27:03 2005
From: mgolding at sdf.lonestar.org (Megan Golding)
Date: Mon Jan 31 14:27:03 2005
Subject: [ale] Tax software for Linux ... FAIRTAX
In-Reply-To: <1107198086.25924.24.camel@cshapiro.numethods.com>
References: <1107127871.17301.3.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
	<41FD8493.4000303@3times25.net>
	<20050131025959.GB2040@d2eb.gweezlebur.com>
	<200501311236.52415.dcorbin@enttek.com>
	<1107195576.7845.9.camel@blue>
	<1107198086.25924.24.camel@cshapiro.numethods.com>
Message-ID: <20050131191628.GF25215@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG>

Aha -- I finally get Godwin's law after spotting it in the
wild. See http://www.killfile.org/faqs/godwin.html

"As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison
                involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."

Meg, frequently the joke has to beat me over the head


On Mon, Jan 31, 2005 at 02:01:26PM -0500, Charles Shapiro wrote:
> Hitler and the Nazis had income taxes.
> 
> -- CHS
> 
> On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 13:19, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> > On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 12:36 -0500, David Corbin wrote:
> > > On Sunday 30 January 2005 09:59 pm, Michael D. Ivey wrote:
> > > > On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 08:06:27PM -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> > > > > >It's tax time again and I'm wondering if anyone knows of any native
> > > > > >Linux software for preparing and filing.
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't think you'll ever get this until one of the big tax boys
> > > > > (turbotax, taxcut... decide to produce it.  There's a lot of work
> > > > > involved in producing tax forms because of the overly complex tax laws
> > > > > and associated changes.
> > > >
> > > > Would now be a good time to plug FairTax?  fairtax.org ... Make April
> > > > 15th just another day.
> > > 
> > > Yes, it would.  Why don't you do so... :)
> > 
> > Forget about a fair tax (is their really such a thing?) lets push for
> > zero personal income tax and only tax profitable businesses as they,
> > bound by shareholder obligations, are motivated to produce a profit.
> > Profitable businesses would *save* money by reducing employee
> > pay/overhead by not having to pay employees money that is withheld for
> > payroll taxes.  
> > 
> > In all reality the current tax system is a shell game.  The Justice Dept
> > calls it money laundering when private people do what the US Congress
> > does (on our dime no less).
> > 
> > -JIm P. 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

-- 
Life with Rachel, one mom's journey: http://www.kalamitykat.com

AIM: meganau  Yahoo!: meggolding  email: mgolding at sdf.lonestar.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org


From james.sumners at gmail.com  Mon Jan 31 14:31:32 2005
From: james.sumners at gmail.com (James Sumners)
Date: Mon Jan 31 14:31:32 2005
Subject: [ale] Java with Firefox on FC3
In-Reply-To: <1beea75e05013111095847df55@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1beea75e05013111095847df55@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ed62030a05013111214033c81e@mail.gmail.com>

What JRE package did you download? Sun's? If so, what version? If it
is version 1.5, 5.0, whatever they call it, you need to link to the
plugin in the 'ns7' directory not 'ns7-gcc295' or 'ns6-gcc31'.

Also, make sure you are linking the plugin in the proper directory. If
you link it in '~/.mozilla/plugins/' then any version of mozilla will
pick up the plugin.


On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 14:09:07 -0500, Philip Polstra <ppolstra at gmail.com> wrote:
> I can't seem to get Java to work under FC3 when using Firefox.  I can
> download the JRE and creat a link in the Plugins directory, but it
> still refuses to run my applets.  This is especially annoying given
> that this is on machines I'm using for my Java programming class.
> Anyone have sucess getting this to work?

----
James Sumners
http://james.roomfullofmirrors.com/

"All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts
pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it
is magnetic to the corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become
drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted."

Missionaria Protectiva, Text QIV (decto)
CH:D 59


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 31 14:37:10 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Mon Jan 31 14:37:10 2005
Subject: [ale] Tax software for Linux ... FAIRTAX
In-Reply-To: <1107198086.25924.24.camel@cshapiro.numethods.com>
References: <1107127871.17301.3.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
	<41FD8493.4000303@3times25.net>
	<20050131025959.GB2040@d2eb.gweezlebur.com>
	<200501311236.52415.dcorbin@enttek.com> <1107195576.7845.9.camel@blue>
	<1107198086.25924.24.camel@cshapiro.numethods.com>
Message-ID: <1107199932.5988.1.camel@wagon>

So did the Romans....so did the Egyptians....and yes...  So did the
Hebrew people....against Gxd's wishes, if I recall.

What's your point?  Trolling?

--j




On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 14:01 -0500, Charles Shapiro wrote:
> Hitler and the Nazis had income taxes.
> 
> -- CHS
> 



From mhirsch at nubridges.com  Mon Jan 31 14:43:00 2005
From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael Hirsch)
Date: Mon Jan 31 14:43:00 2005
Subject: [ale] Tax software for Linux ... FAIRTAX
Message-ID: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465D061@germanium.numethods.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
Megan
> Golding
> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 2:16 PM
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [ale] Tax software for Linux ... FAIRTAX
> 
> Aha -- I finally get Godwin's law after spotting it in the
> wild. See http://www.killfile.org/faqs/godwin.html

Knowing Charles as I do, that is almost definitely not a "wild" example,
but probably only the domesticated variety.  Possibly it could be
regarded as feral, but I don't think so.  I'd say domesticated
pretending to be feral.

Michael

> "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison
>                 involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."
> 
> Meg, frequently the joke has to beat me over the head
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jan 31, 2005 at 02:01:26PM -0500, Charles Shapiro wrote:
> > Hitler and the Nazis had income taxes.
> >
> > -- CHS
> >
> > On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 13:19, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> > > On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 12:36 -0500, David Corbin wrote:
> > > > On Sunday 30 January 2005 09:59 pm, Michael D. Ivey wrote:
> > > > > On Sun, Jan 30, 2005 at 08:06:27PM -0500, Geoffrey wrote:
> > > > > > >It's tax time again and I'm wondering if anyone knows of
any
> native
> > > > > > >Linux software for preparing and filing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't think you'll ever get this until one of the big tax
boys
> > > > > > (turbotax, taxcut... decide to produce it.  There's a lot of
> work
> > > > > > involved in producing tax forms because of the overly
complex
> tax laws
> > > > > > and associated changes.
> > > > >
> > > > > Would now be a good time to plug FairTax?  fairtax.org ...
Make
> April
> > > > > 15th just another day.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, it would.  Why don't you do so... :)
> > >
> > > Forget about a fair tax (is their really such a thing?) lets push
for
> > > zero personal income tax and only tax profitable businesses as
they,
> > > bound by shareholder obligations, are motivated to produce a
profit.
> > > Profitable businesses would *save* money by reducing employee
> > > pay/overhead by not having to pay employees money that is withheld
for
> > > payroll taxes.
> > >
> > > In all reality the current tax system is a shell game.  The
Justice
> Dept
> > > calls it money laundering when private people do what the US
Congress
> > > does (on our dime no less).
> > >
> > > -JIm P.
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ale mailing list
> > > Ale at ale.org
> > > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> --
> Life with Rachel, one mom's journey: http://www.kalamitykat.com
> 
> AIM: meganau  Yahoo!: meggolding  email: mgolding at sdf.lonestar.org
> SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale



From Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net  Mon Jan 31 14:49:02 2005
From: Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net (Robert.L.Harris)
Date: Mon Jan 31 14:49:02 2005
Subject: [ale] Re: Thank you!
Message-ID: <elmsblcmhaauwxsrrlj@ale.org>

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From jloden at toughguy.net  Mon Jan 31 14:56:50 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Mon Jan 31 14:56:50 2005
Subject: [ale] persistent mount points on removable devices
In-Reply-To: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465D01F@germanium.numethods.com>
References: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465D01F@germanium.numethods.com>
Message-ID: <200501311450.33655.jloden@toughguy.net>

Do you know what the status us with udev?  I was having sound problems 
previously that were apaparently related to udev not being properly supported 
under the 2.6.7 kernel I was running. 

I don't know that I want to install udev, I'm kind of concerned it will hose 
something else, and I'll have to go around cleaning up broken parts of my 
system afterward. 

-Jay

On Monday 31 January 2005 12:12 pm, Michael Hirsch wrote:
> Udev is the way to go--it is not gentoo specific.  Mandrake has a "udev"
> package, and I thing SuSE does too., so that is the name to search for.
>
> A few months back Linux Journal had an article about it.  If anyone
> would like to give and ALE Central talk on udev, I'd look favorably on
> them.
>
> Michael
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
>
> David
>
> > Corbin
> > Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 8:18 AM
> > To: ale at ale.org; jloden at toughguy.net
> > Subject: Re: [ale] persistent mount points on removable devices
> >
> > On Gentoo, there is a "udev" package that is a replacement for devfs.
>
> It
>
> > allows you configure specific devices to fixed filenames.  I don't
>
> know if
>
> > this is gentoo specific, part of the linux kernel, or an independent
> > project.
> >
> > On Sunday 30 January 2005 02:06 am, Jay Loden wrote:
> > > I have an iPod and an external CD drive and an external hard drive,
>
> all
>
> > of
> >
> > > which I will be connecting to my laptop via firewire during my
>
> semester
>
> > > abroad (starting Tuesday).  I would like to know if there is a way
>
> for
>
> > me
> >
> > > to plug in my iPod, for example, and have it mount /mnt/iPod, or
>
> plug in
>
> > my
> >
> > > external drive and have it mount '/mnt/maxtor' or what have you.
> > >
> > > This way I can use things like gtkpod, etc to mount the drive and I
>
> will
>
> > be
> >
> > > able to control where it mounts without having to manually specify.
> >
> > (This
> >
> > > is on Debian 2.6.8)
> > >
> > > I don't need it to automount the drives, but I'd like to be able to,
>
> for
>
> > > example, let gtkpod mount my iPod for me, which requires it to stay
> > > consistent. I've noticed that if I remove a device and reconnect it,
>
> it
>
> > > often comes up as a different block device...how can I get around
>
> this?
>
> > > Can I set labels and set fstab to mount by label?
> > >
> > > -Jay
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ale mailing list
> > > Ale at ale.org
> > > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From FishR at bellsouth.net  Mon Jan 31 14:58:40 2005
From: FishR at bellsouth.net (Ryan Fish)
Date: Mon Jan 31 14:58:40 2005
Subject: [ale] BackupPC
Message-ID: <0a5b01c507ce$e290b940$59b4fea9@win2kpro1>

Does anyone here run BackupPC?  I am attempting to use it on a box running FC3 (2.6.10-1.741_FC3smp) with Apache2.0.52 and mod_perl.  I have the backup process running but am experiencing great difficulty in getting the web interface to work.  Unfortunately, I think the problem lies in my not completely understanding the instructions for this app. (http://backuppc.sourceforge.net/faq/BackupPC.html).

I would greatly appreciate assistance with setting up httpd.conf to allow for the use of the BackupPC_Admin.

Thank you.
-Ryan
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From jsheets at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 31 15:00:14 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Mon Jan 31 15:00:14 2005
Subject: [ale] Tax software for Linux ... FAIRTAX
In-Reply-To: <1107200526.25924.40.camel@cshapiro.numethods.com>
References: <1107127871.17301.3.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
	<41FD8493.4000303@3times25.net>
	<20050131025959.GB2040@d2eb.gweezlebur.com>
	<200501311236.52415.dcorbin@enttek.com> <1107195576.7845.9.camel@blue>
	<1107198086.25924.24.camel@cshapiro.numethods.com>
	<1107199932.5988.1.camel@wagon>
	<1107200526.25924.40.camel@cshapiro.numethods.com>
Message-ID: <1107201249.5988.5.camel@wagon>

Except on this list there's no "on topic" or "of topic" per se.


Which brings up an idea...


We had a pair of lists in DC.  One was called dc-sage which was a
moderated, sysadmin/tech/UNIX-only list.  No off topic allowed.  There
was also an unmoderated dc-sage-chat which had a much higher volume and
a much higher level of participation on all things (political, social,
etc.).

Is it possible we're getting big enough we should look into something
like that?  We've gotten a few grumps about our daily banter here of
late, and I'm just wondering out loud.


On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 14:42 -0500, Charles Shapiro wrote:
> No Jerald. I was making a sly reference to Godwin's law, trying to cut
> this thread off before it grows to 2000 emails debating the merits of
> various tax proposals ranging from the rational to the completely dotty.
> 
> Don't construe this to mean that I necessarily disagree with the Fair
> Tax people. I'm a Raving Libertarian at heart. This is just OT in a
> linux group.
> 
> http://www.killfile.org/faqs/godwin.html
> 
> And BTW, I know that Weimar Germany had income taxes too. And Hitler
> cheated on his.
> 
> -- CHS
> 
> On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 14:32, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> > So did the Romans....so did the Egyptians....and yes...  So did the
> > Hebrew people....against Gxd's wishes, if I recall.
> > 
> > What's your point?  Trolling?
> > 
> > --j
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 14:01 -0500, Charles Shapiro wrote:
> > > Hitler and the Nazis had income taxes.
> > > 
> > > -- CHS
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 31 15:07:58 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon Jan 31 15:07:58 2005
Subject: [ale] Tax software for Linux ... FAIRTAX
In-Reply-To: <1107201249.5988.5.camel@wagon>
References: <1107127871.17301.3.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
	<41FD8493.4000303@3times25.net>
	<20050131025959.GB2040@d2eb.gweezlebur.com>
	<200501311236.52415.dcorbin@enttek.com> <1107195576.7845.9.camel@blue>
	<1107198086.25924.24.camel@cshapiro.numethods.com>
	<1107199932.5988.1.camel@wagon>
	<1107200526.25924.40.camel@cshapiro.numethods.com>
	<1107201249.5988.5.camel@wagon>
Message-ID: <1107201774.8583.2.camel@blue>

On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 14:54 -0500, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> Is it possible we're getting big enough we should look into something
> like that?  We've gotten a few grumps about our daily banter here of
> late, and I'm just wondering out loud.

How about leaving ALE alone and just creating an ale-lite list.  If
those that say they are annoyed truly are, then it will be apparent when
they unsub from ALE and sub to ale-lite.  ;-)

-Jim P.

 


From pizza at shaftnet.org  Mon Jan 31 15:17:12 2005
From: pizza at shaftnet.org (Stuffed Crust)
Date: Mon Jan 31 15:17:12 2005
Subject: [ale] Tax software for Linux ... FAIRTAX
In-Reply-To: <1107198086.25924.24.camel@cshapiro.numethods.com>
References: <1107127871.17301.3.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
	<41FD8493.4000303@3times25.net>
	<20050131025959.GB2040@d2eb.gweezlebur.com>
	<200501311236.52415.dcorbin@enttek.com>
	<1107195576.7845.9.camel@blue>
	<1107198086.25924.24.camel@cshapiro.numethods.com>
Message-ID: <20050131201155.GA2534@shaftnet.org>

On Mon, Jan 31, 2005 at 02:01:26PM -0500, Charles Shapiro wrote:
> Hitler and the Nazis had income taxes.

While Germany may have had Income taxes, Hitler was actually a tax 
evader.  One of the perks of him getting elected as Chancellor was that 
all of his unpaid back taxes were forgiven -- some $7 million in today's 
money.  And the brueaucrat who fixed it was given an annual tax-free 
stipend of about $360,000.  

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4105683.stm

As another famous person once said, It's Good to be the King.  Or the 
Fuher, eh?

  - Solomon [Meanwhile, back to the lurk]
-- 
Solomon Peachy        				 ICQ: 1318344
Melbourne, FL 					 JID: pitha at myjabber.net
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur
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From Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net  Mon Jan 31 15:20:08 2005
From: Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net (Robert.L.Harris)
Date: Mon Jan 31 15:20:08 2005
Subject: [ale] Re: Thanks :)
Message-ID: <ywlretsvojseknakygo@ale.org>

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From volcimaster at gmail.com  Mon Jan 31 15:29:17 2005
From: volcimaster at gmail.com (Warren Myers)
Date: Mon Jan 31 15:29:17 2005
Subject: [ale] C++ "not all control paths return a value"
In-Reply-To: <200501282318.19171.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <41FAAF41.8060400@toughguy.net> <41FAC76A.6070205@toughguy.net>
	<1106955570.26517.3.camel@blue>
	<200501282318.19171.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <cd08a04c05013112243ed82901@mail.gmail.com>

Umm.. returning true in a string functgion, should make the compiler
barf. Unless you mean you're just returning an empty string, which
would be done with 'return new string;'

WMM


On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 23:18:18 -0500, Jay Loden <jloden at toughguy.net> wrote:
> Yeah, it's the only thing that's kept me on Windows at all, because I need
> Visual Studio to compile the stupid thing.  I thought it'd be a one time
> thing but here we are over 18 months later and I'm still updating it weekly
> to remove new virus variants.
> 
> Thanks to everyone that replied, all I had to do was remove the else at the
> end and just put "return true" - one of those things where looking back at
> code from a year ago I realize that I've learned a little since then ;)
> 
> -Jay
> 
> On Friday 28 January 2005 06:39 pm, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> > On Fri, 2005-01-28 at 18:14 -0500, Jay Loden wrote:
> > > If it helps, it's a virus removal that has resulted in me being able to
> > > bring about five or six people into the Linux flock ;)
> >
> > Even if it doesn't bring them to Linux, virus removal is a worthy
> > cause. ;-)  Best wishes.
> >
> > -Jim P.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 


-- 
http://warrenmyers.com
"Don't let the elephants see what the rabbits are doing." --Ben R Rich


From Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net  Mon Jan 31 15:32:51 2005
From: Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net (Robert.L.Harris)
Date: Mon Jan 31 15:32:51 2005
Subject: [ale] Re:
Message-ID: <fexerzbrgkqqluvpgyn@ale.org>

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From Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net  Mon Jan 31 15:45:15 2005
From: Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net (Robert L. Harris)
Date: Mon Jan 31 15:45:15 2005
Subject: [ale] Re:
In-Reply-To: <fexerzbrgkqqluvpgyn@ale.org>
References: <fexerzbrgkqqluvpgyn@ale.org>
Message-ID: <20050131204025.GB2135@rdlg.net>



Wow, I'm popular with the Virii today.  Anyone recognize their IP?


Received: from mail.room17.com ([66.184.142.30])
        by wally.rdlg.net with smtp (Exim 4.44)
        id 1Cvi9R-0002t1-IQ
        for robert.l.harris at rdlg.net; Mon, 31 Jan 2005 15:28:01 -0500
Received: (qmail 20250 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2005 20:32:33 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO ike.room17.com) (127.0.0.1)
  by localhost with SMTP; 31 Jan 2005 20:32:33 -0000
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Received: from unknown (HELO your-12ad12a81f.net) (69.85.141.102)
        by mail.room17.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2005 20:32:18 -0000


{0}:/home/nomad>host 69.85.141.102
102.141.85.69.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer 69-85-141-102.sacramento.ca.digitalpath.net.




Thus spake Robert.L.Harris (Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net):

>    :)


> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale

:wq!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert L. Harris                     | GPG Key ID: E344DA3B
                                         @ x-hkp://pgp.mit.edu
DISCLAIMER:
      These are MY OPINIONS             With Dreams To Be A King,
       ALONE.  I speak for              First One Should Be A Man
       no-one else.                       - Manowar

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From jsheets at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 31 15:52:11 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Mon Jan 31 15:52:11 2005
Subject: [ale] Tax software for Linux ... FAIRTAX
In-Reply-To: <1107201774.8583.2.camel@blue>
References: <1107127871.17301.3.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
	<41FD8493.4000303@3times25.net>
	<20050131025959.GB2040@d2eb.gweezlebur.com>
	<200501311236.52415.dcorbin@enttek.com> <1107195576.7845.9.camel@blue>
	<1107198086.25924.24.camel@cshapiro.numethods.com>
	<1107199932.5988.1.camel@wagon>
	<1107200526.25924.40.camel@cshapiro.numethods.com>
	<1107201249.5988.5.camel@wagon>  <1107201774.8583.2.camel@blue>
Message-ID: <1107204442.6809.2.camel@wagon>

Same song, different verse.  Good idea, though...


On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 15:02 -0500, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 14:54 -0500, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> > Is it possible we're getting big enough we should look into something
> > like that?  We've gotten a few grumps about our daily banter here of
> > late, and I'm just wondering out loud.
> 
> How about leaving ALE alone and just creating an ale-lite list.  If
> those that say they are annoyed truly are, then it will be apparent when
> they unsub from ALE and sub to ale-lite.  ;-)
> 
> -Jim P.
> 
>  
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From mhirsch at nubridges.com  Mon Jan 31 16:01:49 2005
From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael Hirsch)
Date: Mon Jan 31 16:01:49 2005
Subject: [ale] persistent mount points on removable devices
Message-ID: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465D086@germanium.numethods.com>

Sorry, but I don't know about that.  It is under active development, but
that's about all I know.

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
Jay
> Loden
> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 2:51 PM
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> Subject: Re: [ale] persistent mount points on removable devices
> 
> Do you know what the status us with udev?  I was having sound problems
> previously that were apaparently related to udev not being properly
> supported
> under the 2.6.7 kernel I was running.
> 
> I don't know that I want to install udev, I'm kind of concerned it
will
> hose
> something else, and I'll have to go around cleaning up broken parts of
my
> system afterward.
> 
> -Jay
> 
> On Monday 31 January 2005 12:12 pm, Michael Hirsch wrote:
> > Udev is the way to go--it is not gentoo specific.  Mandrake has a
"udev"
> > package, and I thing SuSE does too., so that is the name to search
for.
> >
> > A few months back Linux Journal had an article about it.  If anyone
> > would like to give and ALE Central talk on udev, I'd look favorably
on
> > them.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf
Of
> >
> > David
> >
> > > Corbin
> > > Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 8:18 AM
> > > To: ale at ale.org; jloden at toughguy.net
> > > Subject: Re: [ale] persistent mount points on removable devices
> > >
> > > On Gentoo, there is a "udev" package that is a replacement for
devfs.
> >
> > It
> >
> > > allows you configure specific devices to fixed filenames.  I don't
> >
> > know if
> >
> > > this is gentoo specific, part of the linux kernel, or an
independent
> > > project.
> > >
> > > On Sunday 30 January 2005 02:06 am, Jay Loden wrote:
> > > > I have an iPod and an external CD drive and an external hard
drive,
> >
> > all
> >
> > > of
> > >
> > > > which I will be connecting to my laptop via firewire during my
> >
> > semester
> >
> > > > abroad (starting Tuesday).  I would like to know if there is a
way
> >
> > for
> >
> > > me
> > >
> > > > to plug in my iPod, for example, and have it mount /mnt/iPod, or
> >
> > plug in
> >
> > > my
> > >
> > > > external drive and have it mount '/mnt/maxtor' or what have you.
> > > >
> > > > This way I can use things like gtkpod, etc to mount the drive
and I
> >
> > will
> >
> > > be
> > >
> > > > able to control where it mounts without having to manually
specify.
> > >
> > > (This
> > >
> > > > is on Debian 2.6.8)
> > > >
> > > > I don't need it to automount the drives, but I'd like to be able
to,
> >
> > for
> >
> > > > example, let gtkpod mount my iPod for me, which requires it to
stay
> > > > consistent. I've noticed that if I remove a device and reconnect
it,
> >
> > it
> >
> > > > often comes up as a different block device...how can I get
around
> >
> > this?
> >
> > > > Can I set labels and set fstab to mount by label?
> > > >
> > > > -Jay
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Ale mailing list
> > > > Ale at ale.org
> > > > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ale mailing list
> > > Ale at ale.org
> > > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale



From jasonday at worldnet.att.net  Mon Jan 31 16:08:20 2005
From: jasonday at worldnet.att.net (Jason Day)
Date: Mon Jan 31 16:08:20 2005
Subject: [ale] persistent mount points on removable devices
In-Reply-To: <200501311450.33655.jloden@toughguy.net>
References: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465D01F@germanium.numethods.com>
	<200501311450.33655.jloden@toughguy.net>
Message-ID: <20050131210320.GB612@worldnet.att.net>

On Mon, Jan 31, 2005 at 02:50:33PM -0500, Jay Loden wrote:
> Do you know what the status us with udev?  I was having sound problems 
> previously that were apaparently related to udev not being properly supported 
> under the 2.6.7 kernel I was running. 
> 
> I don't know that I want to install udev, I'm kind of concerned it will hose 
> something else, and I'll have to go around cleaning up broken parts of my 
> system afterward. 

http://kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/kernel/hotplug/udev_vs_devfs
http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/kernel/hotplug/udev-FAQ

Both of those articles are written by Greg Kroah-Hartman, the guy that
wrote most, if not all, of the linux USB subsystem.  The fact that he's
advocating udev would tend to suggest giving it serious consideration.

If you're currently using devfs, you'll probably eventually make the
switch to udev anyway, since devfs has been deprecated in favor of udev.

You could probably roll your own hotplug scripts to manage symlinks for
you whenever you install/remove a device, but I think udev will make
this easier.

HTH,
Jason
-- 
Jason Day                                       jasonday at
http://jasonday.home.att.net                    worldnet dot att dot net
 
"Of course I'm paranoid, everyone is trying to kill me."
    -- Weyoun-6, Star Trek: Deep Space 9


From hbbs at comcast.net  Mon Jan 31 16:48:56 2005
From: hbbs at comcast.net (Jeff Hubbs)
Date: Mon Jan 31 16:48:56 2005
Subject: [ale] Evolution Migration 1.4 -> 2.02
In-Reply-To: <1107155952.22114.4.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
References: <013120050203.16894.41FD9200000A3D25000041FE22070032019C0D0D08@comcast.net>
	<1107155952.22114.4.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
Message-ID: <1107189854.21938.0.camel@angel>

On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 02:19 -0500, Raylynn Knight wrote:

> Not sure when the transition was made, but it was seamless for me.  I've
> been using Evolution for years.  Moved from RedHat to SuSE to Mandrake
> on my main box.  I now have Evolution 2.03 and I've never done anything
> more than leave my home directory alone when moving from one distro to
> another or upgrading from one release to the next.

I wonder if that's because you started out with the big-file setting to
begin with.


From rb211 at tds.net  Mon Jan 31 16:52:26 2005
From: rb211 at tds.net (William Bagwell)
Date: Mon Jan 31 16:52:26 2005
Subject: [ale] Tax software for Linux ... FAIRTAX
In-Reply-To: <1107201249.5988.5.camel@wagon>
References: <1107127871.17301.3.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
	<1107200526.25924.40.camel@cshapiro.numethods.com>
	<1107201249.5988.5.camel@wagon>
Message-ID: <200501311652.30443.rb211@tds.net>

On Monday 31 January 2005 02:54 pm, Jerald Sheets wrote:
>snips

> We had a pair of lists in DC. ?One was called dc-sage which was a
> moderated, sysadmin/tech/UNIX-only list. ?No off topic allowed. ?There
> was also an unmoderated dc-sage-chat which had a much higher volume and
> a much higher level of participation on all things (political, social,
> etc.).

Why separate lists? If a change is warranted, (looks like consensus is 
against it) Mailman supports multiple topics with a single list. I'm on two 
very *un*-technical lists that have 18 or more topics. Confuses the newbies 
for a few days when they first join one, works great for allmost everyone 
else. Doubt there are very many total newbies on a linux list.

My 2 cents.
-- 
William


From trey at fastmail.fm  Mon Jan 31 16:54:37 2005
From: trey at fastmail.fm (Trey Sizemore)
Date: Mon Jan 31 16:54:37 2005
Subject: [ale] I think my port 25 might be blocked.
Message-ID: <1107208309.17544.8.camel@salamander.thesizemores.net>

How can I tell if port 25 on my machine is blocked?  I can send e-mail
from using Evolution and kmail without incident, but sylpheed-claws
gives me an error connecting to the smtp server.  I've verified that the
smtp server info is correct.  It does not require authorization.  Using
telnet to try to connect to the port yields:

linux:/home/trey/sylpheed-claws # telnet localhost 25
Trying 127.0.0.1...
telnet: connect to address 127.0.0.1: Connection refused
Trying ::1...
telnet: connect to address ::1: Connection refused

I don't have a firewall enabled.  Where in suse do I check this out?

Thanks for any ideas.


From hbbs at comcast.net  Mon Jan 31 16:58:43 2005
From: hbbs at comcast.net (Jeff Hubbs)
Date: Mon Jan 31 16:58:43 2005
Subject: [ale] Evolution Migration 1.4 -> 2.02
In-Reply-To: <1107189854.21938.0.camel@angel>
References: <013120050203.16894.41FD9200000A3D25000041FE22070032019C0D0D08@comcast.net>
	<1107155952.22114.4.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
	<1107189854.21938.0.camel@angel>
Message-ID: <1107190445.21938.7.camel@angel>

My attempt to concatenate all of the old one-file-per-message files to
the new monolithic Inbox file dind't work.  At launch, Evo tried to
re-index the massive Inbox file but I would up with an Inbox with a few
dozen "megamessages" with no subject, source, or date.  

So. word of warning:  Evolution 1.x to 2.x upgrades can be hell on
skates when it comes to retaining messages.  There is probably a way to
do it, but I'm not sure it's worth the effort.  The under-RAMmed machine
tried to curl up and die at the thought of opening one of those messages
up.

Jeff

On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 16:44 +0000, Jeff Hubbs wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 02:19 -0500, Raylynn Knight wrote:
> 
> > Not sure when the transition was made, but it was seamless for me.  I've
> > been using Evolution for years.  Moved from RedHat to SuSE to Mandrake
> > on my main box.  I now have Evolution 2.03 and I've never done anything
> > more than leave my home directory alone when moving from one distro to
> > another or upgrading from one release to the next.
> 
> I wonder if that's because you started out with the big-file setting to
> begin with.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From jsheets at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 31 17:05:20 2005
From: jsheets at yahoo.com (Jerald Sheets)
Date: Mon Jan 31 17:05:20 2005
Subject: [ale] Evolution Migration 1.4 -> 2.02
In-Reply-To: <1107190445.21938.7.camel@angel>
References: <013120050203.16894.41FD9200000A3D25000041FE22070032019C0D0D08@comcast.net>
	<1107155952.22114.4.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
	<1107189854.21938.0.camel@angel>  <1107190445.21938.7.camel@angel>
Message-ID: <1107208827.7209.1.camel@wagon>

I just got this.

It filtered way down my list in time frame.  

Is the monster temporarily eating messages, or is your system clock
foooobarrr?

--J


(sorry, I'm doing an Evolution migration and it was maddening to not be
able to find the message, so it was fresh on my mind)



On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 16:54 +0000, Jeff Hubbs wrote:
> My attempt to concatenate all of the old one-file-per-message files to
> the new monolithic Inbox file dind't work.  At launch, Evo tried to
> re-index the massive Inbox file but I would up with an Inbox with a few
> dozen "megamessages" with no subject, source, or date.  
> 
> So. word of warning:  Evolution 1.x to 2.x upgrades can be hell on
> skates when it comes to retaining messages.  There is probably a way to
> do it, but I'm not sure it's worth the effort.  The under-RAMmed machine
> tried to curl up and die at the thought of opening one of those messages
> up.
> 
> Jeff
> 
> On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 16:44 +0000, Jeff Hubbs wrote:
> > On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 02:19 -0500, Raylynn Knight wrote:
> > 
> > > Not sure when the transition was made, but it was seamless for me.  I've
> > > been using Evolution for years.  Moved from RedHat to SuSE to Mandrake
> > > on my main box.  I now have Evolution 2.03 and I've never done anything
> > > more than leave my home directory alone when moving from one distro to
> > > another or upgrading from one release to the next.
> > 
> > I wonder if that's because you started out with the big-file setting to
> > begin with.
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From hbbs at comcast.net  Mon Jan 31 17:18:46 2005
From: hbbs at comcast.net (Jeff Hubbs)
Date: Mon Jan 31 17:18:46 2005
Subject: [ale] Evolution Migration 1.4 -> 2.02
In-Reply-To: <1107208827.7209.1.camel@wagon>
References: <013120050203.16894.41FD9200000A3D25000041FE22070032019C0D0D08@comcast.net>
	<1107155952.22114.4.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
	<1107189854.21938.0.camel@angel>  <1107190445.21938.7.camel@angel>
	<1107208827.7209.1.camel@wagon>
Message-ID: <1107209577.21938.10.camel@angel>


Clock was foobar post-power-outage.

Should be fixed now.


On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 17:00 -0500, Jerald Sheets wrote:
> I just got this.
> 
> It filtered way down my list in time frame.  
> 
> Is the monster temporarily eating messages, or is your system clock
> foooobarrr?
> 
> --J
> 
> 
> (sorry, I'm doing an Evolution migration and it was maddening to not be
> able to find the message, so it was fresh on my mind)
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 16:54 +0000, Jeff Hubbs wrote:
> > My attempt to concatenate all of the old one-file-per-message files to
> > the new monolithic Inbox file dind't work.  At launch, Evo tried to
> > re-index the massive Inbox file but I would up with an Inbox with a few
> > dozen "megamessages" with no subject, source, or date.  
> > 
> > So. word of warning:  Evolution 1.x to 2.x upgrades can be hell on
> > skates when it comes to retaining messages.  There is probably a way to
> > do it, but I'm not sure it's worth the effort.  The under-RAMmed machine
> > tried to curl up and die at the thought of opening one of those messages
> > up.
> > 
> > Jeff
> > 
> > On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 16:44 +0000, Jeff Hubbs wrote:
> > > On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 02:19 -0500, Raylynn Knight wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Not sure when the transition was made, but it was seamless for me.  I've
> > > > been using Evolution for years.  Moved from RedHat to SuSE to Mandrake
> > > > on my main box.  I now have Evolution 2.03 and I've never done anything
> > > > more than leave my home directory alone when moving from one distro to
> > > > another or upgrading from one release to the next.
> > > 
> > > I wonder if that's because you started out with the big-file setting to
> > > begin with.
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ale mailing list
> > > Ale at ale.org
> > > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From mhirsch at nubridges.com  Mon Jan 31 17:20:39 2005
From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael Hirsch)
Date: Mon Jan 31 17:20:39 2005
Subject: [ale] I think my port 25 might be blocked.
Message-ID: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465D0AF@germanium.numethods.com>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
Trey
> Sizemore
> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 4:52 PM
> To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> Subject: [ale] I think my port 25 might be blocked.
> 
> How can I tell if port 25 on my machine is blocked?  I can send e-mail
> from using Evolution and kmail without incident, but sylpheed-claws
> gives me an error connecting to the smtp server.  I've verified that
the
> smtp server info is correct.  It does not require authorization.
Using
> telnet to try to connect to the port yields:
> 
> linux:/home/trey/sylpheed-claws # telnet localhost 25
> Trying 127.0.0.1...
> telnet: connect to address 127.0.0.1: Connection refused
> Trying ::1...
> telnet: connect to address ::1: Connection refused
> 
> I don't have a firewall enabled.  Where in suse do I check this out?

I would guess that evolution and kmail are talking directly to your ISP,
not localhost.  In any case, double check their settings for sending
mail and try to duplicate them in sylpheed.

Michael


From trey at fastmail.fm  Mon Jan 31 17:36:33 2005
From: trey at fastmail.fm (Trey Sizemore)
Date: Mon Jan 31 17:36:33 2005
Subject: [ale] I think my port 25 might be blocked.
In-Reply-To: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465D0AF@germanium.numethods.com>
References: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465D0AF@germanium.numethods.com>
Message-ID: <1107210805.17544.11.camel@salamander.thesizemores.net>

On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 17:15 -0500, Michael Hirsch wrote:
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
> Trey
> > Sizemore
> > Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 4:52 PM
> > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> > Subject: [ale] I think my port 25 might be blocked.
> > 
> > How can I tell if port 25 on my machine is blocked?  I can send e-mail
> > from using Evolution and kmail without incident, but sylpheed-claws
> > gives me an error connecting to the smtp server.  I've verified that
> the
> > smtp server info is correct.  It does not require authorization.
> Using
> > telnet to try to connect to the port yields:
> > 
> > linux:/home/trey/sylpheed-claws # telnet localhost 25
> > Trying 127.0.0.1...
> > telnet: connect to address 127.0.0.1: Connection refused
> > Trying ::1...
> > telnet: connect to address ::1: Connection refused
> > 
> > I don't have a firewall enabled.  Where in suse do I check this out?
> 
> I would guess that evolution and kmail are talking directly to your ISP,
> not localhost.  In any case, double check their settings for sending
> mail and try to duplicate them in sylpheed.
> 
> Michael

Sorry, that should have been:

trey at salamander:~/Desktop> telnet mail.alltel.net 25
Trying 166.102.165.30...
Connected to mail.alltel.net.
Escape character is '^]'.
220 ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net ESMTP server ready Mon, 31 Jan 2005
16:29:06 -0600
quit
221 ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net ESMTP server closing connection
Connection closed by foreign host.



From jkinney at localnetsolutions.com  Mon Jan 31 17:49:24 2005
From: jkinney at localnetsolutions.com (James P. Kinney III)
Date: Mon Jan 31 17:49:24 2005
Subject: [ale] Tax software for Linux ... FAIRTAX
In-Reply-To: <1107198086.25924.24.camel@cshapiro.numethods.com>
References: <1107127871.17301.3.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
	<41FD8493.4000303@3times25.net>
	<20050131025959.GB2040@d2eb.gweezlebur.com>
	<200501311236.52415.dcorbin@enttek.com> <1107195576.7845.9.camel@blue>
	<1107198086.25924.24.camel@cshapiro.numethods.com>
Message-ID: <1107211469.16329.356.camel@merlin.localnetsolutions.com>

On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 14:01 -0500, Charles Shapiro wrote:
> Hitler and the Nazis had income taxes.

Nice try. You know this crowd won't take the hint though.
> 
> -- CHS

-- 
James P. Kinney III          \Changing the mobile computing world/
CEO & Director of Engineering \          one Linux user         /
Local Net Solutions,LLC        \           at a time.          /
770-493-8244                    \.___________________________./
http://www.localnetsolutions.com

GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
<jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7
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From jimpop at yahoo.com  Mon Jan 31 17:53:59 2005
From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Mon Jan 31 17:53:59 2005
Subject: [ale] Tax software for Linux ... FAIRTAX
In-Reply-To: <200501311652.30443.rb211@tds.net>
References: <1107127871.17301.3.camel@mandrake.knightsmanor.net>
	<1107200526.25924.40.camel@cshapiro.numethods.com>
	<1107201249.5988.5.camel@wagon>  <200501311652.30443.rb211@tds.net>
Message-ID: <1107211731.9386.5.camel@blue>

On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 16:52 -0500, William Bagwell wrote:

> Why separate lists? If a change is warranted, (looks like consensus is 
> against it) Mailman supports multiple topics with a single list. I'm on two 
> very *un*-technical lists that have 18 or more topics. Confuses the newbies 
> for a few days when they first join one, works great for allmost everyone 
> else. Doubt there are very many total newbies on a linux list.

Topics are a iffy feature for Mailman.  The biggest issue I've seen is
that one needs a better understanding of it before they know it's value,
however they need to know it's value before they can better understand
it.  Case in point:  If a new user is defaulted to all topics, they
don't see the need for (or even learn about) using topics.  If they are
defaulted to only topic X emails, then they never see what they are
missing and start posting off-topic posts to topic X.  So usually all
new folks select all topics and rarely specify topics themselves, unless
they are replying to an email that already has a topic in the subject
line.  Topics only work when everyone properly uses them, else you have
what I call ALE. ;-)

-Jim P.

 


From Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net  Mon Jan 31 18:06:55 2005
From: Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net (Robert.L.Harris)
Date: Mon Jan 31 18:06:55 2005
Subject: [ale] Re: Thank you!
Message-ID: <srjdwxxwyzzcfwnycgx@ale.org>

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From dfitzhenry at gmail.com  Mon Jan 31 18:23:50 2005
From: dfitzhenry at gmail.com (David Fitzhenry)
Date: Mon Jan 31 18:23:50 2005
Subject: [ale] Hello!
Message-ID: <b9c8147c050131151834b30e9c@mail.gmail.com>

Just wanted to extend a 'hello'!  I'm a Woodstock resident, and have
been a Linux geek for about two years now, give or take.

I use Debian Sarge for my desktop at home & work, and have done so for
about the last year or so.  I started out with Redhat, then Fedora,
and was impressed with how Debian did not mess with customizing
certain apps, particularly the default install of KDE, and
particularly the menus, and moved to it.  I found out that on like
hardware, Debian, running KDE, seemed to out perform the Fedora Core 2
install I originally had.  I then decided to lighten up more and
switched to using XFCE4 exclusively.  I've stuck there for about five
months and could not be happier.

Professionally, I'm a geek of a few trades, I sub as our admin,
working with mostly Debian servers (now), lately I've crossed the
tracks and have been tinkering with FreeBSD, and I manage a few
Windows servers too.  My actual position is webmaster, and I do
graphic design, and XHTML/CSS compliant web design.  I also work in
Java, on Eclipse, in Debian and do web development with Struts, and
sometimes a little bit of swing work.  I've also had experience with
ASP, and Delphi development in the past among other things.

Anyway, that's me, I hope to catch you guys at a meeting or something
sometime soon, and I'm sure I'll be piping in, or begging for help on
the list!

-- 
thanks, 
 - David Fitzhenry


From barry at alltc.com  Mon Jan 31 18:27:40 2005
From: barry at alltc.com (Barry Hawkins)
Date: Mon Jan 31 18:27:40 2005
Subject: [ale] Hello!
In-Reply-To: <b9c8147c050131151834b30e9c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b9c8147c050131151834b30e9c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41FEBDB4.6040609@alltc.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

David Fitzhenry wrote:
| Just wanted to extend a 'hello'!  I'm a Woodstock resident, and have
| been a Linux geek for about two years now, give or take.
[...]
A warm welcome to you, David.  We look forward to your contributions,
and I congratulate you on your choice of GNU/Linux distribution 8^).

- --
Barry Hawkins
All Things Computed
site: www.alltc.com
weblog: www.yepthatsme.com

Registered Linux User #368650
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From unixdude at gmail.com  Mon Jan 31 18:38:37 2005
From: unixdude at gmail.com (Jim Patterson)
Date: Mon Jan 31 18:38:37 2005
Subject: [ale] C++ "not all control paths return a value"
In-Reply-To: <cd08a04c05013112243ed82901@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41FAAF41.8060400@toughguy.net> <41FAC76A.6070205@toughguy.net>
	<1106955570.26517.3.camel@blue>
	<200501282318.19171.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<cd08a04c05013112243ed82901@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d8b213cb0501311533ab9b899@mail.gmail.com>

Umm.. That should be 'return "";' since this a return by value function.  Assume
this is STL code or someother library that will do the type conversion.

Jim P.

On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 15:24:32 -0500, Warren Myers <volcimaster at gmail.com> wrote:
> Umm.. returning true in a string functgion, should make the compiler
> barf. Unless you mean you're just returning an empty string, which
> would be done with 'return new string;'
> 
> WMM
> 
> 
> On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 23:18:18 -0500, Jay Loden <jloden at toughguy.net> wrote:
> > Yeah, it's the only thing that's kept me on Windows at all, because I need
> > Visual Studio to compile the stupid thing.  I thought it'd be a one time
> > thing but here we are over 18 months later and I'm still updating it weekly
> > to remove new virus variants.
> >
> > Thanks to everyone that replied, all I had to do was remove the else at the
> > end and just put "return true" - one of those things where looking back at
> > code from a year ago I realize that I've learned a little since then ;)
> >
> > -Jay
> >
> > On Friday 28 January 2005 06:39 pm, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> > > On Fri, 2005-01-28 at 18:14 -0500, Jay Loden wrote:
> > > > If it helps, it's a virus removal that has resulted in me being able to
> > > > bring about five or six people into the Linux flock ;)
> > >
> > > Even if it doesn't bring them to Linux, virus removal is a worthy
> > > cause. ;-)  Best wishes.
> > >
> > > -Jim P.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ale mailing list
> > > Ale at ale.org
> > > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> >
> 
> 
> --
> http://warrenmyers.com
> "Don't let the elephants see what the rabbits are doing." --Ben R Rich
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Mon Jan 31 19:10:37 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Mon Jan 31 19:10:37 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: laptop flat conductor
Message-ID: <41FEC7E0.60700@3times25.net>

I've got an older laptop I'm trying to repair.  It has one of those flat 
ribbon like cables that has about 6 conductors in it.  The ribbon is 
torn in two.  Anyone ever tried to repair one of these things?  It's 
about 1/4" wide, so the conductors are real close.  I can't imagine 
purchasing a new keyboard for this laptop for this purpose.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From joh6nn at hotpop.com  Mon Jan 31 19:20:43 2005
From: joh6nn at hotpop.com (joh6nn)
Date: Mon Jan 31 19:20:43 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: laptop flat conductor
In-Reply-To: <41FEC7E0.60700@3times25.net>
References: <41FEC7E0.60700@3times25.net>
Message-ID: <41FECA25.4000200@hotpop.com>

Geoffrey wrote:
> I can't imagine purchasing a new keyboard for this laptop for this purpose.

you may want to give it some more thought; i haven't ever tried it 
myself, but i've seen the results of other people's attempts to fix 
those.  you might also see if someone's selling just the cable, though i 
expect if they are, it'll cost about the same as the whole keyboard.


From jloden at toughguy.net  Mon Jan 31 19:35:56 2005
From: jloden at toughguy.net (Jay Loden)
Date: Mon Jan 31 19:35:56 2005
Subject: [ale] C++ "not all control paths return a value"
In-Reply-To: <cd08a04c05013112243ed82901@mail.gmail.com>
References: <41FAAF41.8060400@toughguy.net>
	<200501282318.19171.jloden@toughguy.net>
	<cd08a04c05013112243ed82901@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200501311929.43824.jloden@toughguy.net>

Sorry, I was looking at other code at the same time, and I meant to say 
"return name" not return true....go me!

-Jay

On Monday 31 January 2005 03:24 pm, Warren Myers wrote:
> Umm.. returning true in a string functgion, should make the compiler
> barf. Unless you mean you're just returning an empty string, which
> would be done with 'return new string;'
>
> WMM
>
> On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 23:18:18 -0500, Jay Loden <jloden at toughguy.net> wrote:
> > Yeah, it's the only thing that's kept me on Windows at all, because I
> > need Visual Studio to compile the stupid thing.  I thought it'd be a one
> > time thing but here we are over 18 months later and I'm still updating it
> > weekly to remove new virus variants.
> >
> > Thanks to everyone that replied, all I had to do was remove the else at
> > the end and just put "return true" - one of those things where looking
> > back at code from a year ago I realize that I've learned a little since
> > then ;)
> >
> > -Jay
> >
> > On Friday 28 January 2005 06:39 pm, Jim Popovitch wrote:
> > > On Fri, 2005-01-28 at 18:14 -0500, Jay Loden wrote:
> > > > If it helps, it's a virus removal that has resulted in me being able
> > > > to bring about five or six people into the Linux flock ;)
> > >
> > > Even if it doesn't bring them to Linux, virus removal is a worthy
> > > cause. ;-)  Best wishes.
> > >
> > > -Jim P.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Ale mailing list
> > > Ale at ale.org
> > > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ale mailing list
> > Ale at ale.org
> > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Mon Jan 31 19:37:17 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Mon Jan 31 19:37:17 2005
Subject: [ale] Hello!
In-Reply-To: <b9c8147c050131151834b30e9c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b9c8147c050131151834b30e9c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <41FECE17.4040806@3times25.net>

David Fitzhenry wrote:
> Just wanted to extend a 'hello'!  I'm a Woodstock resident, and have
> been a Linux geek for about two years now, give or take.

Welcome, and you're a prime candidate for the NW meetings at KSU.  Hope 
to see you there.  I'll be updating the page with the presentation info 
soon, so keep checking there for more info.


-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From esoteric at 3times25.net  Mon Jan 31 19:39:55 2005
From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey)
Date: Mon Jan 31 19:39:55 2005
Subject: [ale] OT: laptop flat conductor
In-Reply-To: <41FECA25.4000200@hotpop.com>
References: <41FEC7E0.60700@3times25.net> <41FECA25.4000200@hotpop.com>
Message-ID: <41FECE81.8030901@3times25.net>

joh6nn wrote:
> Geoffrey wrote:
> 
>> I can't imagine purchasing a new keyboard for this laptop for this 
>> purpose.
> 
> 
> you may want to give it some more thought; i haven't ever tried it 
> myself, but i've seen the results of other people's attempts to fix 
> those.

Can't hurt it, it's in two pieces right now. :)

> you might also see if someone's selling just the cable, though i 
> expect if they are, it'll cost about the same as the whole keyboard.

One end is soldered to the keyboard, so I'd have to get the keyboard as 
well anyway.

-- 
Until later, Geoffrey


From pmboren at bellsouth.net  Mon Jan 31 20:16:59 2005
From: pmboren at bellsouth.net (Paul Boren)
Date: Mon Jan 31 20:16:59 2005
Subject: [ale] RE: Book Review - Understanding Open Source & Free Software,
 Licensing (Barry Hawkins)
In-Reply-To: <20050130033243.BPKI2062.imf06aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mail.room17.com>
References: <20050130033243.BPKI2062.imf06aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mail.room17.com>
Message-ID: <41FF018D.9080205@bellsouth.net>

Barry Hawkins wrote:

>Licensing is not exactly the sort of topic where people slide forward in
>their seats and ask to be told more. Such is the appeal of software
>licensing; however, the importance of understanding licensing,
>particularly within the context of open source development, cannot be
>overstated.
>
You know it wasn't a slow day on /. either and there it is...

http://books.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/01/31/2010211&from=rss

I think a lot of people are wising up.
Some of them will pick up the book.
Great review, Barry.

-- Paul Boren


From trey at fastmail.fm  Mon Jan 31 20:51:53 2005
From: trey at fastmail.fm (Trey Sizemore)
Date: Mon Jan 31 20:51:53 2005
Subject: [ale] I think my port 25 might be blocked. - FIXED
In-Reply-To: <1107210805.17544.11.camel@salamander.thesizemores.net>
References: <3430B9A60E93564FAB3B5861335CBDCF0465D0AF@germanium.numethods.com>
	<1107210805.17544.11.camel@salamander.thesizemores.net>
Message-ID: <1107204405.25078.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 17:33 -0500, Trey Sizemore wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 17:15 -0500, Michael Hirsch wrote:
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ale-bounces at ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces at ale.org] On Behalf Of
> > Trey
> > > Sizemore
> > > Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 4:52 PM
> > > To: Atlanta Linux Enthusiasts
> > > Subject: [ale] I think my port 25 might be blocked.
> > > 
> > > How can I tell if port 25 on my machine is blocked?  I can send e-mail
> > > from using Evolution and kmail without incident, but sylpheed-claws
> > > gives me an error connecting to the smtp server.  I've verified that
> > the
> > > smtp server info is correct.  It does not require authorization.
> > Using
> > > telnet to try to connect to the port yields:
> > > 
> > > linux:/home/trey/sylpheed-claws # telnet localhost 25
> > > Trying 127.0.0.1...
> > > telnet: connect to address 127.0.0.1: Connection refused
> > > Trying ::1...
> > > telnet: connect to address ::1: Connection refused
> > > 
> > > I don't have a firewall enabled.  Where in suse do I check this out?
> > 
> > I would guess that evolution and kmail are talking directly to your ISP,
> > not localhost.  In any case, double check their settings for sending
> > mail and try to duplicate them in sylpheed.
> > 
> > Michael
> 
> Sorry, that should have been:
> 
> trey at salamander:~/Desktop> telnet mail.alltel.net 25
> Trying 166.102.165.30...
> Connected to mail.alltel.net.
> Escape character is '^]'.
> 220 ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net ESMTP server ready Mon, 31 Jan 2005
> 16:29:06 -0600
> quit
> 221 ispmxmta06-srv.alltel.net ESMTP server closing connection
> Connection closed by foreign host.

Just wanted to report this was a goof on my end as I was correctly using
mail.alltel.net elsewhere and switched to smtp.alltel.net in this
instance.

Sorry for the noise.


From Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net  Mon Jan 31 21:01:40 2005
From: Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net (Robert.L.Harris)
Date: Mon Jan 31 21:01:40 2005
Subject: [ale] Re: Thank you!
Message-ID: <zdfmloftgqubuyaqfia@ale.org>

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From Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net  Mon Jan 31 21:20:21 2005
From: Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net (Robert.L.Harris)
Date: Mon Jan 31 21:20:21 2005
Subject: [ale] Re: Thanks :)
Message-ID: <gegosxyeaygvwqkztkp@ale.org>

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