[ale] Cobb Laptop Deal

[Mark Wright]

On Aug 15, 2005, at 8:58 PM, Geoffrey wrote:

> Mark Wright wrote:
>
>>
>> On Aug 15, 2005, at 6:17 PM, Geoffrey wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Mark Wright wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I am glad the deal fell apart even though I am a former Evangelist
>>>> member. ( Guy Kawasaki's old mailing list to promote mac info  
>>>> back a
>>>> few years)
>>>>
>>>> I think that computers in schools are just another impediment to  a
>>>> good
>>>> education.  I believe there is no teen in the metro area that   
>>>> cannot
>>>> operate a windows PC currently or passably given a day to  learn.
>>>> Putting PCs in schools unless, they are used just to teach   
>>>> coding or
>>>> hardware design just takes away time from learning to read,   
>>>> write  and
>>>> do math.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> This is just patently false.  I was totally against the cobb  
>>> computer
>>> debacle, but the computers in schools these days are used for a  
>>> lot  more
>>> then 'teach coding or hardware design.'  You don't even get the  
>>> option
>>> to take such classes until late in middle school.  So what do  
>>> you  thing
>>> the students are doing with the computers in grades k-5?
>>>
>>
>> They remove some of the grading burden for teachers.  All Cobb and
>> Cherokee grade schools use their computers mostly for a program   
>> called
>> Accelerated Reader.  It was a "must have" at a private school  I
>> consulted for.  The teachers at this school went on and on about   
>> how it
>> helped their students learn to read.  I was really excited to  see  
>> this
>> revolutionary teaching system that I was being paid to  install.   
>> I was
>> never so disappointed.  It is nothing but a database  of questions  
>> for
>> books the school has to buy for their library.  The  kids read the  
>> books
>> and then answer the questions on the computer.   The computer  
>> automates
>> the grading and performance tracking for the  teacher.  The computer
>> does zero for the children.
>>
>
> Then you must not have much experience with the Cobb school system.
> Full disclosure, my wife has been teaching in Cobb for 15 years.  I  
> KNOW
> what they use the computers for and you are well off the mark.  Grant
> it, a lot depends on the teachers, but then they get no training  
> what so
> ever.
>
> I'm not saying the system is perfect, but I get real tired of folks
> bashing the whole system because you have a hand full of lousy  
> teachers
> and a boat load of apathetic parents.
>
>
>> Years later my second oldest nearly failed reading because she  
>> found  it
>> too tedious to go in her spare time to the library and take the  easy
>> tests even though she read the books.  I suppose more PC's in  the
>> school would have given her less of an excuse but so would a   
>> teacher to
>> deliver the few questions.
>>
>
> So you're telling me that the teacher used accelerated reader for
> grading purposes.  I don't know what county that was, but it is not  
> used
> in this way in Cobb.  It is a tool to provide initiative to read  
> and to
> enhance reading.  Recognition is placed on those who obtain the  
> most points.
>
> http://www.cobbk12.org/~tritt/acreader.htm

"The Accelerated Reader, or AR, is a learning information system that  
enables freestanding computer-assisted assessment of student  
comprehension of ?real? books."

That is still just a grading system.  It does not teach.  You read a  
book and take a test that the computer delivers and tally's.  You can  
call it a "learning information system" if you like but all it does  
is free the teacher from having to read the book or grade the questions.

> http://www.cobbk12.org/~frey/ARC.htm
>
>
>> I have been closely involved with computers and schools and I  
>> don't  see
>> the need.  Knowledge gained from a library book usually lasts  longer
>> than google answers.  I have been to plenty of dog an pony  shows for
>> education software and I have also come in a year or two  later to
>> replace the dusty unused equipment with yet another  "latest  answer"
>> for lagging test scores.
>>
>
> Right, if they're not used, how are they going to help?  I'm not a big
> fan of educational software, most of it is lousy.  But there are good
> ones out there that can make a difference.  Further, the teacher must
> not simply rely on the tool.  The tool doesn't teach, the teacher  
> does.
>
>
>>> Further, you make an assumption that every teen in the metro area  
>>> has
>>> access to a computer outside of school, and that is also false.
>>>
>>
>>
>> No I didn't.   I just believe with all the electronic toys even the
>> poorest kids in Atlanta have, that adding Windows skills to what they
>> already know is trivial.
>>
>
> You are not talking about the average child.  You need to revisit your
> demographic data.
>
>
>>> Don't get me wrong, I don't think the computers in the schools are
>>> properly utilized, but they do a lot more with them then you've   
>>> stated.
>>>
>>> I do realize there are all kinds of problems with computers in   
>>> schools.
>>>   Teachers get little or no training, there is little or no support,
>>> poorly designed network infrastructure...
>>>
>>> Computers can be used as a good educational tool just as books,  
>>> chalk
>>> boards, white boards, overhead projectors..... are.  In a lot of  
>>> cases
>>> they are.
>>>
>>>
>> I think this is conventional wisdom.  Computers are expensive, I use
>> one to be more productive therefore my child who needs to learn  
>> to  read
>> better and master algebra needs one.  Besides if our kids aren't
>> getting the grades we want we gotta do something.
>>
>
> Please do not try to patronize me.  I know more about this subject  
> then
> you could possibly understand.  I do not think that slapping a  
> computer
> in front of a child is going to make them read better, anymore then
> slapping a book in front of the same child will make them learn math.
>
> The key is, it is a tool.  In properly trained hands, it can make a
> difference.  If you would like, I will schedule a day where you can  
> sit
> in on my wife's class and see how a computer will enhance learning.

I really would like to.  My bias is fully admitted for all to see.  I  
think the king has no clothes.  I am a reluctant participant only  
because I am not rich enough to write my own rules.  I did work for   
a private school for 2 years and had to smile and nod approvingly  
while PHd's went on an on about ideas that I thought were patently  
absurd.  I have very close and dear friends who are degreed High  
school teachers and  a good friend of mine has a district position in  
Cherokee County.  I am telling you this so you will know that I am  
not a lunatic that would cause trouble in you school.  My beliefs  
about our nations school system is completely heresy to my Aunt who  
taught with a PHd at Georgia State until she retired recently.  But I  
still think I am right and they are wrong.  Please show me something  
that is good about government run schools.  Well, besides the people.


Mark

>
>> I think a computer
>> makes a good carrot in a classroom but not a good tool.  That is a
>> general tool such as a pencil or a black board or a book.  It makes a
>> good specialized tool.  If you want to learn HTML it helps.  If you
>> want to add some web resources to a lesson it helps but as a tool to
>> teach math skills it falls way short of a teacher.  I have  
>> supervised  a
>> complete 4th grade curriculum delivered on a PC. It is just a  
>> book  that
>> can grade itself.  The some students did well with it most did  not.
>> Most kids need more teacher time.
>>
>
> I do not think that a child can sit in front of a computer for a whole
> year and come out ready for the next grade.  A computer is just  
> another
> of the many tools available and when used properly, they will enhance
> the learning experience.  Can you teach someone algerbra without a  
> book?
>   Sure, but the proper tools make the learning easier and the teaching
> more effective.
>
>
>>
>> I mentioned the carrot above. The most effective use of computers I
>> have seen was a teacher that let her class play educational games on
>> them if they did there work fast enough.  It had to be correct.    
>> Mostly
>> the boys in the class were working to get PC time though.  the  girls
>> needed other incentive.
>>
>
> There are better uses for this tool in the classroom.
>
> -- 
> Until later, Geoffrey
> _______________________________________________
> Ale mailing list
> Ale at ale.org
> http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...