From marvindickens at bellsouth.net Wed Apr 7 02:07:33 2004 From: marvindickens at bellsouth.net (Marvin Dickens) Date: Wed Apr 7 00:36:41 2004 Subject: [ale] SO vs OO In-Reply-To: <40734C34.5000909@3times25.net> References: <1081104400.4854.7.camel@devel> <200404051346.57074.marvindickens@bellsouth.net> <40734C34.5000909@3times25.net> Message-ID: <200404070107.34014.marvindickens@bellsouth.net> On Tuesday 06 April 2004 20:32, Geoffrey wrote: > > Yes, but that consists of about .1 % of M$ Office users. In my 26 years > with AT&T, 99% of M$ Office documents were either PP, Word or Excel, > with no interaction between any two. The few times I found people doing > such document interaction, it was because they didn't have the right > tool or the right knowledge... Hello Geoffrey, Well, I can't speak for your experience at AT%T. I can only speak regarding my experience(s). I interact on a frequent basis with quite a few users who are in management positions who's positions are pivotal. By pivotal, I mean their job requires them to interact and share meaningful data with multiple managers/decision makers in different departments. Admitidly, the companies I am thinking about do not employ the thousands of people that AT&T employs. These companies employ between several hundred to *maybe* a thousand people. These users use office suites on a regular basis and do so solely for the interaction between the different applications in the suite. If MS Office did not have the ability to embed spreadsheets into word processing docs and later produce a presentation based on the two (If needed...), most of these users would jump ship away from MS products totally. It's the only MS owned and written app that they use. They use it because it works and they can share data. These people have already heard about Linux or else have experience with it and like what they see. But, until the office suite thing is ironed out they are stuck. How can they justify asking for SO or OO if it does not work as advertised? Also, I am a die hard Linux advocate. Period. But, the fact is in IMHO, SO and OO do not compare to the MS Office Suite of products. Good God. That made my hair hurt when I typed that last sentence. I don't think I'll do ever do that again................ Regards Marvin Dickens From baron_shatturday at hotmail.com Wed Apr 7 01:55:03 2004 From: baron_shatturday at hotmail.com (William Wylde) Date: Wed Apr 7 00:58:21 2004 Subject: [ale] minimalist package manager Message-ID: Geoffrey : >Both SuSE and Mandrake permit you to select individual packages, which can >be quite tedious. Slack will probably give you the smallest footprint. I >know you weren't asking about distros, but these are alternatives that >might fit your needs. I've found another small-footprint option: gentoo. I've been toying with it for a week, trying it on various boxes, and I think it's probably the neatest distro I've come across- after years of being a slack man. I've re-installed slack on this box- due to the weird partitioning scheme I've got on it from a once-upon-a-time dual-boot situation with windoze... like, hda1 isn't physically hda1, etc. Done to trick windoze into thinking it had the first partition... *sigh* Gentoo kept choking on it. So I'm cleaning up my /home partition, and then I'm going to kill all my partitions and start from scratch with Gentoo yet again. I'm digressing, though.. :-) Gentoo give you a small base system (and if you use a stage-3 compiled for your particular architecture, there's no reason to bootstrap the install at all!) to which you add your apps & their dependencies (!) one at a time if you want to. There's definately no bloat there! :-) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (,,oBo,,) "What have I become Lottie? My wife in a cage with a |||| monkey... ?" -- "Being John Malchovitch" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Free up your inbox with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! Multiple plans available. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=hotmail/es2&ST=1/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ From jknapka at kneuro.net Wed Apr 7 04:31:46 2004 From: jknapka at kneuro.net (Joe Knapka) Date: Wed Apr 7 03:34:54 2004 Subject: [ale] [Way OT] Artists? Message-ID: <20040407073146.5B061B2F3F@localhost.localdomain> Hi everyone, I have a graphic-arts project I'd like to do, but I don't have the artistic skills to accomplish it; so I'm looking for some help. Briefly, I have an idea for a story that would be, I think, most effectively told through the web-comic medium. I can't offer any monetary reward, just the opportunity to have the prominent "Illustrated by:" credit on what could be an incredibly cool collaboration. It's a dramatic-with-comic-relief SF kind of thing, with a continuing story arc. If you think you may be interested, drop me a line off-list and I'll provide further details. Cheers, -- Joe jknapka at kneuro dot net From artic_knight at yahoo.com Wed Apr 7 02:09:48 2004 From: artic_knight at yahoo.com (Stephen Turner) Date: Wed Apr 7 04:14:17 2004 Subject: [ale] minimalist package manager In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040407080948.56569.qmail@web13426.mail.yahoo.com> --- > I've found another small-footprint option: gentoo. yes ive tried it but it has a base package, it installs many apps i dont need and with a 30 gig hard disk and a base system from gentoo that takes roughly a 1 gig chunk alone before gui on a t-bird system. its lovely tho i love the speed. if i could get it to do individual packages instead of the base then with the optimization functions it would be perfect. i suppose i could modify it maybe? ill have to look at it next time im geeky and bored. ===== ::: common sense? does it come with a manual?::: __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/ From jolomo at olagrande.net Wed Apr 7 12:34:04 2004 From: jolomo at olagrande.net (jolomo@olagrande.net) Date: Wed Apr 7 05:38:03 2004 Subject: [ale] Re: Word file Message-ID: Your document is attached. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: document_word.pif Type: application/octet-stream Size: 17424 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://ike.room17.com/pipermail/ale/attachments/20040407/9d950a08/document_word.obj From dcorbin at machturtle.com Wed Apr 7 07:55:26 2004 From: dcorbin at machturtle.com (David Corbin) Date: Wed Apr 7 06:59:22 2004 Subject: [ale] Memory leak (hacked?) Message-ID: <200404070655.26788.dcorbin@machturtle.com> I have had my public server develop a sudden memory leak. (Honest - it is sudden - I've done nothing to that system recently). I keep ending up with the following kernel message: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0xf0/0) repeatedly. When I reboot this morning, I watch top, and sure enough, you could see the memory steadily creeping upwards. This happens even when I boot into single user mode, and have ridiculously free processes: PID TTY STAT TIME COMMAND 1 ? S 0:03 init [S] 2 ? SW 0:00 [keventd] 3 ? SWN 0:00 [ksoftirqd_CPU0] 4 ? SW 0:00 [kswapd] 5 ? SW 0:00 [bdflush] 6 ? SW 0:00 [kupdated] 9 ? SW 0:00 [khubd] 13 ? SW 0:00 [kjournald] 96 ? SW 0:00 [kjournald] 97 ? SW 0:00 [kreiserfsd] 125 ? S 0:00 /sbin/portmap 174 tty1 S 0:00 init [S] 175 tty1 S 0:00 bash 179 tty1 R 0:00 ps ax I'm running 2.4.23 I can only think to (a) upgrade the kernel, or (b) reinstall (ugh). Anyone have other ideas? Fixing this is very important to me, as it's my email server... -- David Corbin From dcorbin at machturtle.com Wed Apr 7 08:11:57 2004 From: dcorbin at machturtle.com (David Corbin) Date: Wed Apr 7 07:15:27 2004 Subject: [ale] Memory leak (hacked?) In-Reply-To: <200404070655.26788.dcorbin@machturtle.com> References: <200404070655.26788.dcorbin@machturtle.com> Message-ID: <200404070711.57774.dcorbin@machturtle.com> On Wednesday 07 April 2004 06:55, David Corbin wrote: > I have had my public server develop a sudden memory leak. (Honest - it is > sudden - I've done nothing to that system recently). I keep ending up with > the following kernel message: __alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed > (gfp=0xf0/0) repeatedly. > > When I reboot this morning, I watch top, and sure enough, you could see the > memory steadily creeping upwards. This happens even when I boot into > single user mode, and have ridiculously free processes: > > PID TTY STAT TIME COMMAND > 1 ? S 0:03 init [S] > 2 ? SW 0:00 [keventd] > 3 ? SWN 0:00 [ksoftirqd_CPU0] > 4 ? SW 0:00 [kswapd] > 5 ? SW 0:00 [bdflush] > 6 ? SW 0:00 [kupdated] > 9 ? SW 0:00 [khubd] > 13 ? SW 0:00 [kjournald] > 96 ? SW 0:00 [kjournald] > 97 ? SW 0:00 [kreiserfsd] > 125 ? S 0:00 /sbin/portmap > 174 tty1 S 0:00 init [S] > 175 tty1 S 0:00 bash > 179 tty1 R 0:00 ps ax > > I'm running 2.4.23 > > I can only think to (a) upgrade the kernel, or (b) reinstall (ugh). Anyone > have other ideas? > > Fixing this is very important to me, as it's my email server... I even have nice little MRTG graph that shows it "going wild" starting late on Monday. -- David Corbin From esoteric at 3times25.net Wed Apr 7 08:22:21 2004 From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey) Date: Wed Apr 7 07:23:18 2004 Subject: [ale] SO vs OO In-Reply-To: <1081303740.6455.21.camel@blue> References: <1081104400.4854.7.camel@devel> <1081124892.4854.10.camel@devel> <4071662D.5020900@kennesaw.edu> <200404051103.16847.marvindickens@bellsouth.net> <407348AA.3030508@3times25.net> <1081303740.6455.21.camel@blue> Message-ID: <4073E46D.2010602@3times25.net> Jim Popovitch wrote: > On Tue, 2004-04-06 at 20:17, Geoffrey wrote: > > >> To me, this is such a cop out. Very few people reuse word >> documents. > > > Word docs probably aren't as good an issue as Excel spreadsheets. I > know my company emails them left and right like bandwidth was free. > :) Still, the same applies. In general there are two wide spread uses of spreadsheets. People use them as either databases or tables. It's a rare occasion to find someone who actually uses a spreadsheet as it was originally intended (mathematically calculations on large amounts of data). That being said, the general cases are typical uses of the wrong tool. Spreadsheets used in place of a database should be replaced with a database. Spread sheets used as a table are easily converted to a spreadsheet from another Office suite. > Cross compatibility is key to getting organizations to move to OO/SO. > HOWEVER, the first "gaim/AIM/jabber/Y!" style war and those > companies will move right back to MS. I don't think the solution is cross compatibility. I think the proper approach is total conversion. You don't want to be living with two Office suites forever. -- Until later, Geoffrey Registered Linux User #108567 Building secure systems in spite of Microsoft From esoteric at 3times25.net Wed Apr 7 08:32:49 2004 From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey) Date: Wed Apr 7 07:33:51 2004 Subject: [ale] SO vs OO In-Reply-To: <200404070107.34014.marvindickens@bellsouth.net> References: <1081104400.4854.7.camel@devel> <200404051346.57074.marvindickens@bellsouth.net> <40734C34.5000909@3times25.net> <200404070107.34014.marvindickens@bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <4073E6E1.2050601@3times25.net> Marvin Dickens wrote: > On Tuesday 06 April 2004 20:32, Geoffrey wrote: > > >> Yes, but that consists of about .1 % of M$ Office users. In my 26 >> years with AT&T, 99% of M$ Office documents were either PP, Word or >> Excel, with no interaction between any two. The few times I found >> people doing such document interaction, it was because they didn't >> have the right tool or the right knowledge... > > > Hello Geoffrey, > > Well, I can't speak for your experience at AT%T. I can only speak > regarding my experience(s). I interact on a frequent basis with quite > a few users who are in management positions who's positions are > pivotal. By pivotal, I mean their job requires them to interact and > share meaningful data with multiple managers/decision makers in > different departments. Admitidly, the companies I am thinking about > do not employ the thousands of people that AT&T employs. These > companies employ between several hundred to *maybe* a thousand > people. > > These users use office suites on a regular basis and do so solely for > the interaction between the different applications in the suite. If > MS Office did not have the ability to embed spreadsheets into word > processing docs and later produce a presentation based on the two (If > needed...), most of these users would jump ship away from MS products > totally. It's the only MS owned and written app that they use. They > use it because it works and they can share data. Granted, and I can't speak for the rest of the world, as I've not experienced it. :) Also, I've not got enough experience with OO or SO to claim they do what these users find they need. I would have expected that they would, but that is an expectation, not knowledge on my part. > These people have already heard about Linux or else have experience > with it and like what they see. But, until the office suite thing is > ironed out they are stuck. How can they justify asking for SO or OO > if it does not work as advertised? Also, I am a die hard Linux > advocate. Period. But, the fact is in IMHO, SO and OO do not compare > to the MS Office Suite of products. I guess I need to take a harder look at SO and OO to better understand these limitations. > Good God. That made my hair hurt when I typed that last sentence. I > don't think I'll do ever do that again................ Take two aspirin and sleep in in the morning... :) -- Until later, Geoffrey Registered Linux User #108567 Building secure systems in spite of Microsoft From esoteric at 3times25.net Wed Apr 7 08:40:52 2004 From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey) Date: Wed Apr 7 07:41:53 2004 Subject: [ale] Memory leak (hacked?) In-Reply-To: <200404070655.26788.dcorbin@machturtle.com> References: <200404070655.26788.dcorbin@machturtle.com> Message-ID: <4073E8C4.50206@3times25.net> David Corbin wrote: > I have had my public server develop a sudden memory leak. (Honest - > it is sudden - I've done nothing to that system recently). I keep > ending up with the following kernel message: __alloc_pages: 0-order > allocation failed (gfp=0xf0/0) repeatedly. > > When I reboot this morning, I watch top, and sure enough, you could > see the memory steadily creeping upwards. This happens even when I > boot into single user mode, and have ridiculously free processes: Tried running top to see what is eating up your memory? After starting top enter 'M' (that's uppercase m) and it will sort by memory usage. You should be able to identify the memory hog. -- Until later, Geoffrey Registered Linux User #108567 Building secure systems in spite of Microsoft From jimpop at yahoo.com Wed Apr 7 08:49:27 2004 From: jimpop at yahoo.com (Jim Popovitch) Date: Wed Apr 7 08:01:44 2004 Subject: [ale] SO vs OO In-Reply-To: <4073E46D.2010602@3times25.net> References: <1081104400.4854.7.camel@devel> <1081124892.4854.10.camel@devel> <4071662D.5020900@kennesaw.edu> <200404051103.16847.marvindickens@bellsouth.net> <407348AA.3030508@3times25.net> <1081303740.6455.21.camel@blue> <4073E46D.2010602@3times25.net> Message-ID: <1081338567.7217.14.camel@blue> On Wed, 2004-04-07 at 07:22, Geoffrey wrote: > I don't think the solution is cross compatibility. I think the proper > approach is total conversion. You don't want to be living with two > Office suites forever. One cannot convert the whole world overnight, so therefore compatibility is necessary. -Jim P. From esoteric at 3times25.net Wed Apr 7 09:17:50 2004 From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey) Date: Wed Apr 7 08:19:00 2004 Subject: [ale] SO vs OO In-Reply-To: <1081338567.7217.14.camel@blue> References: <1081104400.4854.7.camel@devel> <1081124892.4854.10.camel@devel> <4071662D.5020900@kennesaw.edu> <200404051103.16847.marvindickens@bellsouth.net> <407348AA.3030508@3times25.net> <1081303740.6455.21.camel@blue> <4073E46D.2010602@3times25.net> <1081338567.7217.14.camel@blue> Message-ID: <4073F16E.5090002@3times25.net> Jim Popovitch wrote: > On Wed, 2004-04-07 at 07:22, Geoffrey wrote: > > >> I don't think the solution is cross compatibility. I think the >> proper approach is total conversion. You don't want to be living >> with two Office suites forever. > > > One cannot convert the whole world overnight, so therefore > compatibility is necessary. I agree you can't convert the whole world overnight. I don't think the solution is to have OO or SO be able to properly open every possible M$ Office document that exists. It's not going to happen, because Office is closed source and M$ constantly changes these proprietary formats in order to force people to upgrade and to keep the other Office Suites incompatible. What I suggest is having users use M$ Office to deal with legacy documents and create new documents with SO or OO. Eventually you get to the point where you either are rid of the legacy docs, or you've got so few left, you can convert them with minimal pain. -- Until later, Geoffrey Registered Linux User #108567 Building secure systems in spite of Microsoft From dcorbin at machturtle.com Wed Apr 7 09:41:28 2004 From: dcorbin at machturtle.com (David Corbin) Date: Wed Apr 7 08:45:22 2004 Subject: [ale] Memory leak (hacked?) In-Reply-To: <4073E8C4.50206@3times25.net> References: <200404070655.26788.dcorbin@machturtle.com> <4073E8C4.50206@3times25.net> Message-ID: <200404070841.28523.dcorbin@machturtle.com> On Wednesday 07 April 2004 07:40, Geoffrey wrote: > David Corbin wrote: > > I have had my public server develop a sudden memory leak. (Honest - > > it is sudden - I've done nothing to that system recently). I keep > > ending up with the following kernel message: __alloc_pages: 0-order > > allocation failed (gfp=0xf0/0) repeatedly. > > > > When I reboot this morning, I watch top, and sure enough, you could > > see the memory steadily creeping upwards. This happens even when I > > boot into single user mode, and have ridiculously free processes: > > Tried running top to see what is eating up your memory? After starting > top enter 'M' (that's uppercase m) and it will sort by memory usage. > You should be able to identify the memory hog. Yes, I did, but I don't see anything growing in an individual process. Only the total memory uses is growing. I have noticed some "Spurious 8259A Interrupt IRQ 7" messages showing up on the console. -- David Corbin From Sigmascape1 at cs.com Wed Apr 7 09:42:25 2004 From: Sigmascape1 at cs.com (Sigmascape1@cs.com) Date: Wed Apr 7 08:45:53 2004 Subject: [ale] MORE SO VS. OO Message-ID: <162ED45C.6EC8F04D.3F8EDD3A@cs.com> Hello! Recently, there has been a lot of discussion about the differences of StarOffice and OpenOffice, and their collective impact. I will admit that MS Office 2000/XP/2003 'standard' versions are superior to either SO or OO, but I must also say that the open source efforts of OO are making strides. I remember using beta versions of OO 1.0, and thinking that this is fantastic! Now here we are at version 1.1.1, and I still love the product. In time, the gap between MS Office and OO will close, and Sun will hopefully help push SO into more and more businesses (I HOPE SUN'S RECENT SETTLEMENT WITH MS IS NOT GOING TO HINDER THINGS). I think the OO project needs some help though. An Aqua-native version of OO on the Mac would be huge move, and maybe more output options for OO's presentation app. Personally, the one feature I am asked about from client most often is the 'click anywhere on the page and type' feature of MS Word and Corel WordPerfect. Mitch Featherston From wsams at southernlink.net Wed Apr 7 10:12:03 2004 From: wsams at southernlink.net (Walter Sams) Date: Wed Apr 7 09:12:47 2004 Subject: [ale] SO vs OO In-Reply-To: <4073E46D.2010602@3times25.net> References: <1081104400.4854.7.camel@devel> <1081303740.6455.21.camel@blue> <4073E46D.2010602@3times25.net> Message-ID: <200404070912.03080.wsams@southernlink.net> My 1.5 cents on this subject: You are on the right track here (total conversion), the issue is not how well you can convert but how you can use the opensource product to do your new work. As projects are completed the need for MS will fade. My analogy is the fuss about converting to the metric system. People are always complaining of the difficulty of converting measurements from English to Metric. My answer is dont convert, just use metric measurements and soon you will get a feel for how much is a liter, a meter etc. In my office, I just dumped MS all together and we learn how to make OO do what we need. We have not had to deal with presentations and very complex spreadsheets from other offices and have not had to maintain 2 office suites. (which would be my approach) Walter Sams Samsco Htg. & Air On Wednesday 07 April 2004 07:22 am, Geoffrey wrote: > Jim Popovitch wrote: > > On Tue, 2004-04-06 at 20:17, Geoffrey wrote: > >> To me, this is such a cop out. Very few people reuse word > >> documents. > > > > Word docs probably aren't as good an issue as Excel spreadsheets. I > > know my company emails them left and right like bandwidth was free. > > > > :) > > Still, the same applies. In general there are two wide spread uses of > spreadsheets. People use them as either databases or tables. It's a > rare occasion to find someone who actually uses a spreadsheet as it was > originally intended (mathematically calculations on large amounts of > data). That being said, the general cases are typical uses of the wrong > tool. Spreadsheets used in place of a database should be replaced with > a database. Spread sheets used as a table are easily converted to a > spreadsheet from another Office suite. > > > Cross compatibility is key to getting organizations to move to OO/SO. > > HOWEVER, the first "gaim/AIM/jabber/Y!" style war and those > > companies will move right back to MS. > > I don't think the solution is cross compatibility. I think the proper > approach is total conversion. You don't want to be living with two > Office suites forever. From esoteric at 3times25.net Wed Apr 7 11:05:38 2004 From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey) Date: Wed Apr 7 10:06:57 2004 Subject: [ale] Memory leak (hacked?) In-Reply-To: <200404070841.28523.dcorbin@machturtle.com> References: <200404070655.26788.dcorbin@machturtle.com> <4073E8C4.50206@3times25.net> <200404070841.28523.dcorbin@machturtle.com> Message-ID: <40740AB2.6070906@3times25.net> David Corbin wrote: > On Wednesday 07 April 2004 07:40, Geoffrey wrote: > >>David Corbin wrote: >> >>>I have had my public server develop a sudden memory leak. (Honest - >>>it is sudden - I've done nothing to that system recently). I keep >>>ending up with the following kernel message: __alloc_pages: 0-order >>>allocation failed (gfp=0xf0/0) repeatedly. >>> >>>When I reboot this morning, I watch top, and sure enough, you could >>>see the memory steadily creeping upwards. This happens even when I >>>boot into single user mode, and have ridiculously free processes: >> >>Tried running top to see what is eating up your memory? After starting >>top enter 'M' (that's uppercase m) and it will sort by memory usage. >>You should be able to identify the memory hog. > > > Yes, I did, but I don't see anything growing in an individual process. Only > the total memory uses is growing. That doesn't sound good. Seems like something's being hidden from you. Possibly been hacked? > > I have noticed some "Spurious 8259A Interrupt IRQ 7" messages showing up on > the console. I don't see that this could have anything to do with the memory issue. -- Until later, Geoffrey Registered Linux User #108567 Building secure systems in spite of Microsoft From dcorbin at machturtle.com Wed Apr 7 11:43:57 2004 From: dcorbin at machturtle.com (David Corbin) Date: Wed Apr 7 10:49:53 2004 Subject: [ale] Memory leak (hacked?) In-Reply-To: <40740AB2.6070906@3times25.net> References: <200404070655.26788.dcorbin@machturtle.com> <4073E8C4.50206@3times25.net> <200404070841.28523.dcorbin@machturtle.com> <40740AB2.6070906@3times25.net> Message-ID: <407413AD.8060600@machturtle.com> Geoffrey wrote: > David Corbin wrote: > >> On Wednesday 07 April 2004 07:40, Geoffrey wrote: >> >>> David Corbin wrote: >>> >>>> I have had my public server develop a sudden memory leak. (Honest - >>>> it is sudden - I've done nothing to that system recently). I keep >>>> ending up with the following kernel message: __alloc_pages: 0-order >>>> allocation failed (gfp=0xf0/0) repeatedly. >>>> >>>> When I reboot this morning, I watch top, and sure enough, you could >>>> see the memory steadily creeping upwards. This happens even when I >>>> boot into single user mode, and have ridiculously free processes: >>> >>> >>> Tried running top to see what is eating up your memory? After starting >>> top enter 'M' (that's uppercase m) and it will sort by memory usage. >>> You should be able to identify the memory hog. >> >> >> >> Yes, I did, but I don't see anything growing in an individual process. >> Only the total memory uses is growing. > > > That doesn't sound good. Seems like something's being hidden from you. > Possibly been hacked? > The other possibility that occurred to me, is that it might be a kernel bug of some type, which might explain the memory consumption not being assigned to a process. >> >> I have noticed some "Spurious 8259A Interrupt IRQ 7" messages showing >> up on the console. > > > I don't see that this could have anything to do with the memory issue. Unless it's somehow related to my comment above, but it's not so common that I think it's the cause of the memory leak. > > From rb211 at tds.net Wed Apr 7 10:47:08 2004 From: rb211 at tds.net (William Bagwell) Date: Wed Apr 7 10:51:43 2004 Subject: [ale] Boot "loader" floppy (not image / rescue) with RedHat 7.2 ? Message-ID: <200404071047.08227.rb211@tds.net> Taking an on-line class that will use RedHat, and I'm trying to avoid the hassles of triple booting. During a Mandrake install it offers to put the loader on a floppy. This works great for playing with new versions, keeping them (mostly) separate, and the original loader safe from being filled with garbage. All I'm finding with Google are traditional disks, and tutorials about cramming 1.7 MB on a 1.44 MB floppy. The book for the class seems geared towards first time (dual boot with Doze) installs, and goes into great detail on making one from within Windows, to force an install when your BIOS won't let you. Again, not what I need. Does RH 7.2 give the same choice? If not, is there an easy way to move it afterwards? Am I just searching for the wrong thing... Guess I could unplug my main drive, do an install and find out. Much easer to ask here first and avoid them killer dust bunnies:) -- William From jknapka at kneuro.net Wed Apr 7 16:04:48 2004 From: jknapka at kneuro.net (Joe Knapka) Date: Wed Apr 7 11:05:01 2004 Subject: [ale] Memory leak (hacked?) In-Reply-To: <407413AD.8060600@machturtle.com> References: <200404070655.26788.dcorbin@machturtle.com> <4073E8C4.50206@3times25.net> <200404070841.28523.dcorbin@machturtle.com> <40740AB2.6070906@3times25.net> <407413AD.8060600@machturtle.com> Message-ID: David Corbin writes: > The other possibility that occurred to me, is that it might be a > kernel bug of some type, which might explain the memory consumption > not being assigned to a process. Yes. A hardware failure that prevents the kernel from properly cleaning up resources associated with a device could cause this. Or, you may be hacked. A clever intruder can insert modules into the kernel (which is why a public server shouldn't have module load/unload enabled), and can also hide the fact that he's done so. A malicious module that simply allocated pages as fast as it could would cause the behavior you're seeing. -- Joe -- Resist the feed. -- If you really want to get my attention, send mail to jknapka .at. kneuro .dot. net. From ups at tree.com Wed Apr 7 12:06:30 2004 From: ups at tree.com (Stephan Uphoff) Date: Wed Apr 7 11:11:47 2004 Subject: [ale] Boot "loader" floppy (not image / rescue) with RedHat 7.2 ? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 07 Apr 2004 09:47:08 CDT." <200404071047.08227.rb211@tds.net> Message-ID: <200404071506.LAA32087@stups.com> Take a look at grub. You can boot grub from the floppy. Grub understands hard disks and file systems and can load and start your kernel from your hard disk. No need to stuff the kernel on a floppy. William Bagwell wrote: > Taking an on-line class that will use RedHat, and I'm trying to avoid the > hassles of triple booting. During a Mandrake install it offers to put the > loader on a floppy. This works great for playing with new versions, keeping > them (mostly) separate, and the original loader safe from being filled with > garbage. > > All I'm finding with Google are traditional disks, and tutorials about > cramming 1.7 MB on a 1.44 MB floppy. The book for the class seems geared > towards first time (dual boot with Doze) installs, and goes into great detail > on making one from within Windows, to force an install when your BIOS won't > let you. Again, not what I need. > > Does RH 7.2 give the same choice? If not, is there an easy way to move it > afterwards? Am I just searching for the wrong thing... > > Guess I could unplug my main drive, do an install and find out. Much easer to > ask here first and avoid them killer dust bunnies:) > -- > William > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale@ale.org > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > From wsams at southernlink.net Wed Apr 7 12:31:42 2004 From: wsams at southernlink.net (Walter Sams) Date: Wed Apr 7 11:32:23 2004 Subject: [ale] Internet connection question Message-ID: <200404071131.42857.wsams@southernlink.net> I am using kmail from my office and have a company domain and would like to have all our business contacts use our company email account to communicate with us. I have an isp account which handles all email When I tried to configure kmail to send and receive email on my company domain I got an error saying that the server was not local and connection could not be made. I have kmail currently configured so that the SMTP account shows my isp mail server and I can send email. However people who receive the email see it as coming from my isp mail server account and not my company domain account. If any of this makes sense and anyone can point me in the right direction to get my email working through my company domain I would be most greatfull. IE I want all email to be seen as comming from myname@mycompany.com, but my isp mail server is mail.joesmuck.net and my user for the isp account is dummy@joesmuck.net My current isp acount tech support is less than helpfull because we did not let him handle our web domain hosting and fears that we will be dropping his service. from one who does not understand Walter Sams From vinson.lists at charter.net Wed Apr 7 12:30:05 2004 From: vinson.lists at charter.net (Jason Vinson) Date: Wed Apr 7 11:33:15 2004 Subject: [ale] Gimp 2.0 Message-ID: <20040407153004.GA588@vinsonizer.dyndns.org> How did I miss this release! http://www.gimp.org http://jimmac.musichall.cz/gimp2demos.php All I can say is !!!!! Jason From bjorn at sccs.swarthmore.edu Wed Apr 7 09:15:31 2004 From: bjorn at sccs.swarthmore.edu (Bjorn Dittmer-Roche) Date: Wed Apr 7 11:33:42 2004 Subject: [ale] SO vs OO In-Reply-To: <4073E46D.2010602@3times25.net> References: <1081104400.4854.7.camel@devel> <1081124892.4854.10.camel@devel> <4071662D.5020900@kennesaw.edu> <200404051103.16847.marvindickens@bellsouth.net> <407348AA.3030508@3times25.net> <1081303740.6455.21.camel@blue> <4073E46D.2010602@3times25.net> Message-ID: <20040407081008.Q1103@twiggy.bjorn.is-a-geek.com> On Wed, 7 Apr 2004, Geoffrey wrote: > Jim Popovitch wrote: > > On Tue, 2004-04-06 at 20:17, Geoffrey wrote: > > > > > >> To me, this is such a cop out. Very few people reuse word > >> documents. > > > > > > Word docs probably aren't as good an issue as Excel spreadsheets. I > > know my company emails them left and right like bandwidth was free. > > :) > > Still, the same applies. In general there are two wide spread uses of > spreadsheets. People use them as either databases or tables. It's a > rare occasion to find someone who actually uses a spreadsheet as it was > originally intended (mathematically calculations on large amounts of > data). That being said, the general cases are typical uses of the wrong > tool. Spreadsheets used in place of a database should be replaced with > a database. Spread sheets used as a table are easily converted to a > spreadsheet from another Office suite. The fact that spread sheets were origianlly designed for one thing and are now good at other things doesn't mean they are the wrong tool, it just means that the tools have evolved, which is a good thing. It means non computer saavy people can manage simple databases and everyone can make complex tableswith ease. Moreover they can do both of these things by just learning one simple tool. bjorn From networkr0 at cfl.rr.com Wed Apr 7 12:40:23 2004 From: networkr0 at cfl.rr.com (Brian Chase) Date: Wed Apr 7 11:38:44 2004 Subject: [ale] Internet connection question In-Reply-To: <200404071131.42857.wsams@southernlink.net> References: <200404071131.42857.wsams@southernlink.net> Message-ID: <407420E7.3080107@cfl.rr.com> If you want your mail to work properly with "myname@mycompany.com", you'll need to have a static, public IP business class service on the Linux box at your office and be running Postfix or Sendmail or some other MTA (Mail Transfer Agent). Your ISP email accounts will not be involved at all. You will be your own email server from that point on. Some other things you might share with us is which Linux distribution is the intended email server running? Be specific and maybe one of us can help you set it up. BC Walter Sams wrote: > > I am using kmail from my office and have a company domain and would like to > have all our business contacts use our company email account to communicate > with us. > > I have an isp account which handles all email > > When I tried to configure kmail to send and receive email on my company domain > I got an error saying that the server was not local and connection could not > be made. > > I have kmail currently configured so that the SMTP account shows my isp mail > server and I can send email. However people who receive the email see it as > coming from my isp mail server account and not my company domain account. > > If any of this makes sense and anyone can point me in the right direction to > get my email working through my company domain I would be most greatfull. > > IE I want all email to be seen as comming from myname@mycompany.com, but my > isp mail server is mail.joesmuck.net and my user for the isp account is > dummy@joesmuck.net > > My current isp acount tech support is less than helpfull because we did not > let him handle our web domain hosting and fears that we will be dropping his > service. > > from one who does not understand > > Walter Sams > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale@ale.org > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > From esoteric at 3times25.net Wed Apr 7 12:55:58 2004 From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey) Date: Wed Apr 7 11:57:01 2004 Subject: [ale] SO vs OO In-Reply-To: <20040407081008.Q1103@twiggy.bjorn.is-a-geek.com> References: <1081104400.4854.7.camel@devel> <1081124892.4854.10.camel@devel> <4071662D.5020900@kennesaw.edu> <200404051103.16847.marvindickens@bellsouth.net> <407348AA.3030508@3times25.net> <1081303740.6455.21.camel@blue> <4073E46D.2010602@3times25.net> <20040407081008.Q1103@twiggy.bjorn.is-a-geek.com> Message-ID: <4074248E.2030008@3times25.net> Bjorn Dittmer-Roche wrote: > The fact that spread sheets were origianlly designed for one thing > and are now good at other things doesn't mean they are the wrong > tool, it just means that the tools have evolved, which is a good > thing. It means non computer saavy people can manage simple databases > and everyone can make complex tableswith ease. Moreover they can do > both of these things by just learning one simple tool. I'll agree to some extent, particularily for individuals. My personal experience indicates that people tend to, in fact, be using the wrong tool for the job. For example, the guy I knew who calculated his monthly paycheck and deductions with a spreadsheet. Wrong tool. -- Until later, Geoffrey Registered Linux User #108567 Building secure systems in spite of Microsoft From drifter at oppositelock.org Wed Apr 7 12:08:25 2004 From: drifter at oppositelock.org (Sean Kilpatrick) Date: Wed Apr 7 12:15:08 2004 Subject: [ale] Internet connection question In-Reply-To: <200404071131.42857.wsams@southernlink.net> References: <200404071131.42857.wsams@southernlink.net> Message-ID: <200404071208.31855.drifter@oppositelock.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday 07 April 2004 11:31 am, Walter Sams wrote: | IE I want all email to be seen as comming from myname@mycompany.com, | but my isp mail server is mail.joesmuck.net and my user for the isp | account is dummy@joesmuck.net Walter, This tip probably won't help much, but kmail can be easily configured to accept more than one "identity" -- myname@mycompany.com That string value will be inserted into the headers on the "From:" line. >Configure-KMail > Identities > New You will note that this message is "From" drifter@oppositelock.org" even though my isp is Speakeasy. HTH Sean -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAdCd/73hVp4UeGJERAhyyAJ928EFjTidEIvgzSwwi3bne/AjdKQCgjsiP CjW5NR4bz0Owm2xC3Dd/3cE= =nKTp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From esoteric at 3times25.net Wed Apr 7 13:17:08 2004 From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey) Date: Wed Apr 7 12:18:18 2004 Subject: [ale] Internet connection question In-Reply-To: <407420E7.3080107@cfl.rr.com> References: <200404071131.42857.wsams@southernlink.net> <407420E7.3080107@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <40742984.4000001@3times25.net> Brian Chase wrote: > If you want your mail to work properly with "myname@mycompany.com", > you'll need to have a static, public IP business class service on the > Linux box at your office and be running Postfix or Sendmail or some > other MTA (Mail Transfer Agent). Your ISP email accounts will not > be involved at all. You will be your own email server from that > point on. This is not correct. You can get an isp to host your domain as well as mail services for that domain. This is likely the simplest solution. You will need to configure your MTA properly so that outgoing email reflects the proper domain. -- Until later, Geoffrey Registered Linux User #108567 Building secure systems in spite of Microsoft From esoteric at 3times25.net Wed Apr 7 13:24:10 2004 From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey) Date: Wed Apr 7 12:25:10 2004 Subject: [ale] Internet connection question In-Reply-To: <200404071208.31855.drifter@oppositelock.org> References: <200404071131.42857.wsams@southernlink.net> <200404071208.31855.drifter@oppositelock.org> Message-ID: <40742B2A.6020401@3times25.net> Sean Kilpatrick wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > > On Wednesday 07 April 2004 11:31 am, Walter Sams wrote: | IE I want > all email to be seen as comming from myname@mycompany.com, | but my > isp mail server is mail.joesmuck.net and my user for the isp | > account is dummy@joesmuck.net > > Walter, This tip probably won't help much, but kmail can be easily > configured to accept more than one "identity" -- myname@mycompany.com > That string value will be inserted into the headers on the "From:" > line. This won't work because the MTA will produce improper headers, thus some messages will bounce because they don't reverse resolve properly. Again, I'd suggest Walter use his ISP to provide these services. I assume they are already hosting your domain? -- Until later, Geoffrey Registered Linux User #108567 Building secure systems in spite of Microsoft From wsams at southernlink.net Wed Apr 7 13:50:45 2004 From: wsams at southernlink.net (Walter Sams) Date: Wed Apr 7 12:52:10 2004 Subject: [ale] Internet connection question In-Reply-To: <40742B2A.6020401@3times25.net> References: <200404071131.42857.wsams@southernlink.net> <200404071208.31855.drifter@oppositelock.org> <40742B2A.6020401@3times25.net> Message-ID: <200404071250.45963.wsams@southernlink.net> let me try to answer all points in one email mmmmmmmmmmmmm....... We have not yet looked into having a business class public isp address, I told my it guy to keep it simple and cheap so he has not hit on this plan yet--I will pass it on and we may have to do something like it. I did try having multiple identies in kmail, but infact the server kicked back my emails. I couldnt figure out how to have different user names and passwords and get them to go through in the right order. (still working on that though) My big problem that I see with using the isp is that the isp needs to be hosting the web domain. Currently that is not the case, I have one dsl provider, another isp and another domain host. (bad plan, right?) I am using mandrake 9.1 , kmail 1.5, sendmail is used to handle all of our email in the office. From the posts, it seems as though I need to move to a single source for internet access and work from there???? I am unfamiliar with setting up my own public ip address, is this a difficult undertaking? expensive? Thanks to all for your assistance. Walter Sams On Wednesday 07 April 2004 12:24 pm, Geoffrey wrote: > Sean Kilpatrick wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > > > > On Wednesday 07 April 2004 11:31 am, Walter Sams wrote: | IE I want > > all email to be seen as comming from myname@mycompany.com, | but my > > isp mail server is mail.joesmuck.net and my user for the isp | > > account is dummy@joesmuck.net > > > > Walter, This tip probably won't help much, but kmail can be easily > > configured to accept more than one "identity" -- myname@mycompany.com > > That string value will be inserted into the headers on the "From:" > > line. > > This won't work because the MTA will produce improper headers, thus some > messages will bounce because they don't reverse resolve properly. > > Again, I'd suggest Walter use his ISP to provide these services. I > assume they are already hosting your domain? From keith.watson at gtri.gatech.edu Wed Apr 7 13:48:43 2004 From: keith.watson at gtri.gatech.edu (Keith R. Watson) Date: Wed Apr 7 13:00:35 2004 Subject: [ale] OT - Microsoft goes Open Source Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20040407124217.022059c0@casbah.gatech.edu> Hi all, Another sysadmin sent me this and I thought the list might like to know about it considering Microsoft's previous stand on the subject of open source. http://news.com.com/2100-7344-5185549.html Microsoft -- facing increasing pressure from open-source competition -- made a nod to open source fans on Monday. The company "published the code for one of its products on an open-source software development Web site late Monday, departing from its hard-line stance against making the underlying components of its technology available to the general public," CNET's News.com reported. "Redmond, Wash.-based Microsoft revealed the code for its Windows Installer XML (WiX) software, a set of tools used to build installation packages for the company's Windows products from XML source code. According to the information posted on the SourceForge site, a resource for open-source collaboration projects, the actual code Microsoft published supports an environment that software developers can use for creating Windows setup packages." . CNET's News.com: Microsoft Airs Tools' Source Code Online http://sourceforge.net/projects/wix/ http://wix.sourceforge.net/ this redirects to http://blogs.msdn.com/robmen/category/4625.aspx in shock, keith ------------- Keith R. Watson GTRI/ITD Systems Support Specialist III Georgia Tech Research Institute keith.watson@gtri.gatech.edu Atlanta, GA 30332-0816 404-894-0836 From networkr0 at cfl.rr.com Wed Apr 7 14:28:21 2004 From: networkr0 at cfl.rr.com (Brian Chase) Date: Wed Apr 7 13:26:51 2004 Subject: [ale] Internet connection question In-Reply-To: <200404071250.45963.wsams@southernlink.net> References: <200404071131.42857.wsams@southernlink.net> <200404071208.31855.drifter@oppositelock.org> <40742B2A.6020401@3times25.net> <200404071250.45963.wsams@southernlink.net> Message-ID: <40743A35.9060000@cfl.rr.com> Well, external hosting may save you some money, but your linux box won't be doing the heavy lifting then. Alot depends on how many accounts you'll need to host and how many integrated services you'd like to run off it. I like the flexibility of doing it myself because I can create an unlimited number of email accounts on the fly for no additional charges, but if you've got just a few people in your organization, I think it turns out cheaper to do it all on an offsite hosting service. You'll be ahead of the game with hosting it yourself if you want to do a "Groupware" solution similar to MS Exchange, with calendar, to-do, etc... If you want to host it yourself, I recommend a fresh load of Mandrake 9.2 once you're public, static IP address is established with your DSL provider with a business class service that doesn't block any ports. Mandy9.2 has some great wizards that will auto-install and configure DNS, Postfix email server, firewall, and HTTP server during the installation. Your Linux box will be your DHCP server for your office network then, so you'll need two NIC's in it before starting the install. One going to the cable or DSL modem, and the other to a 100BaseT switch where all the other local computers are attached to. This setup will also allow you to do value-add like content filtering, spam filtering, and VPN's that terminate on the Linux box. I've done this as a newbie over a year ago and it just worked, first time (i was amazed). Mandrake 9.1 does most all that too, but I think you'll have an easier time installing fresh if you can move your data to another box for a day or two. Beside Mandrake 9.2 is alot nicer and doesn't have the bugs that Mandrake 10 does. Walter Sams wrote: > let me try to answer all points in one email mmmmmmmmmmmmm....... > > We have not yet looked into having a business class public isp address, I told > my it guy to keep it simple and cheap so he has not hit on this plan yet--I > will pass it on and we may have to do something like it. > > I did try having multiple identies in kmail, but infact the server kicked back > my emails. I couldnt figure out how to have different user names and > passwords and get them to go through in the right order. (still working on > that though) > > My big problem that I see with using the isp is that the isp needs to be > hosting the web domain. Currently that is not the case, I have one dsl > provider, another isp and another domain host. (bad plan, right?) > > I am using mandrake 9.1 , kmail 1.5, sendmail is used to handle all of our > email in the office. > > From the posts, it seems as though I need to move to a single source for > internet access and work from there???? > > I am unfamiliar with setting up my own public ip address, is this a difficult > undertaking? expensive? > > Thanks to all for your assistance. > > Walter Sams > > > > On Wednesday 07 April 2004 12:24 pm, Geoffrey wrote: > >>Sean Kilpatrick wrote: >> >>>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 >>> >>>On Wednesday 07 April 2004 11:31 am, Walter Sams wrote: | IE I want >>>all email to be seen as comming from myname@mycompany.com, | but my >>>isp mail server is mail.joesmuck.net and my user for the isp | >>>account is dummy@joesmuck.net >>> >>>Walter, This tip probably won't help much, but kmail can be easily >>>configured to accept more than one "identity" -- myname@mycompany.com >>>That string value will be inserted into the headers on the "From:" >>>line. >> >>This won't work because the MTA will produce improper headers, thus some >>messages will bounce because they don't reverse resolve properly. >> >>Again, I'd suggest Walter use his ISP to provide these services. I >>assume they are already hosting your domain? > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale@ale.org > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > From jasonday at worldnet.att.net Wed Apr 7 14:59:32 2004 From: jasonday at worldnet.att.net (Jason Day) Date: Wed Apr 7 14:02:55 2004 Subject: [ale] quoted characters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040407175932.GS690@worldnet.att.net> On Tue, Apr 06, 2004 at 03:54:20PM -0500, Preston Boyington wrote: > i had been using the ":" to define a quoted message part instead of a more traditional ">". that said, how do i tell Mutt/Vim to recognize these ":" as it does these ">"? Mutt should recognize the ":" as a quote character by default. Try putting this in your ~/.muttrc: set quote_regexp = "^([ \t]*[|>:}#])+" HTH, Jason -- Jason Day jasonday at http://jasonday.home.att.net worldnet dot att dot net "Of course I'm paranoid, everyone is trying to kill me." -- Weyoun-6, Star Trek: Deep Space 9 From jknapka at kneuro.net Wed Apr 7 19:13:35 2004 From: jknapka at kneuro.net (Joe Knapka) Date: Wed Apr 7 14:13:59 2004 Subject: [ale] OT - Microsoft goes Open Source In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040407124217.022059c0@casbah.gatech.edu> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040407124217.022059c0@casbah.gatech.edu> Message-ID: "Keith R. Watson" writes: > Hi all, > > Another sysadmin sent me this and I thought the list might like to > know about it considering Microsoft's previous stand on the subject of > open source. > > http://news.com.com/2100-7344-5185549.html [snip] > . CNET's News.com: Microsoft Airs Tools' Source Code Online > > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/wix/ > http://wix.sourceforge.net/ > > this redirects to > > http://blogs.msdn.com/robmen/category/4625.aspx > > > in shock, > keith My first thought was, "This is a trick. Have they found a way to "embrace and extend" the open source development model?" But that was a very interesting blog entry. The guy seems sincere. I'm not sure Microsoft is capable of producing anything that doesn't suck though, open-source or no. -- Joe -- Resist the feed. -- If you really want to get my attention, send mail to jknapka .at. kneuro .dot. net. From jknapka at kneuro.net Wed Apr 7 19:26:53 2004 From: jknapka at kneuro.net (Joe Knapka) Date: Wed Apr 7 14:27:00 2004 Subject: [ale] Boot "loader" floppy (not image / rescue) with RedHat 7.2 ? In-Reply-To: <200404071506.LAA32087@stups.com> References: <200404071506.LAA32087@stups.com> Message-ID: Stephan Uphoff writes: > Take a look at grub. Or for the absolute essence of simplicity, build a kernel with the root device set to your root filesystem (or run rdev on an existing kernel image), then take your compressed kernel and "dd if=vmlinuz of=/dev/fd0". Boot from the floppy, and your system should come up as usual, with no pesky "which thing should I boot?" prompt. This works because the kernel image contains a minimal bootloader. -- Joe > You can boot grub from the floppy. > Grub understands hard disks and file systems and can load > and start your kernel from your hard disk. > No need to stuff the kernel on a floppy. > > William Bagwell wrote: > > Taking an on-line class that will use RedHat, and I'm trying to avoid the > > hassles of triple booting. During a Mandrake install it offers to put the > > loader on a floppy. This works great for playing with new versions, keeping > > them (mostly) separate, and the original loader safe from being filled with > > garbage. > > > > All I'm finding with Google are traditional disks, and tutorials about > > cramming 1.7 MB on a 1.44 MB floppy. The book for the class seems geared > > towards first time (dual boot with Doze) installs, and goes into great detail > > on making one from within Windows, to force an install when your BIOS won't > > let you. Again, not what I need. > > > > Does RH 7.2 give the same choice? If not, is there an easy way to move it > > afterwards? Am I just searching for the wrong thing... > > > > Guess I could unplug my main drive, do an install and find out. Much easer to > > ask here first and avoid them killer dust bunnies:) > > -- > > William > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ale mailing list > > Ale@ale.org > > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale@ale.org > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > > -- Resist the feed. -- If you really want to get my attention, send mail to jknapka .at. kneuro .dot. net. From esoteric at 3times25.net Wed Apr 7 15:27:06 2004 From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey) Date: Wed Apr 7 14:28:04 2004 Subject: [ale] Internet connection question In-Reply-To: <200404071250.45963.wsams@southernlink.net> References: <200404071131.42857.wsams@southernlink.net> <200404071208.31855.drifter@oppositelock.org> <40742B2A.6020401@3times25.net> <200404071250.45963.wsams@southernlink.net> Message-ID: <407447FA.9020408@3times25.net> Walter Sams wrote: > From the posts, it seems as though I need to move to a single source > for internet access and work from there???? Not necessarily. There are a host of providers out there who will provide web based services as well as email. For example, you can get 50 pop email addresses and web space for about $5 a month from http://www.1and1.com I just set up a website and mail services for the church I attend. (http://www.annunciationepiscopal.org/) Further, you can move your domain there for free. You can forward the email addresses to an existing one, or simply pop your email from their server. There are others who will provide similar services. You do not need a static IP for this. -- Until later, Geoffrey Registered Linux User #108567 Building secure systems in spite of Microsoft From networkr0 at cfl.rr.com Wed Apr 7 15:32:42 2004 From: networkr0 at cfl.rr.com (Brian Chase) Date: Wed Apr 7 14:31:00 2004 Subject: [ale] Internet connection question In-Reply-To: <407447FA.9020408@3times25.net> References: <200404071131.42857.wsams@southernlink.net> <200404071208.31855.drifter@oppositelock.org> <40742B2A.6020401@3times25.net> <200404071250.45963.wsams@southernlink.net> <407447FA.9020408@3times25.net> Message-ID: <4074494A.1050903@cfl.rr.com> Sure you don't work for these guys, lol.... Geoffrey wrote: > Not necessarily. There are a host of providers out there who will > provide web based services as well as email. For example, you can get > 50 pop email addresses and web space for about $5 a month from > http://www.1and1.com > > I just set up a website and mail services for the church I attend. > (http://www.annunciationepiscopal.org/) From esoteric at 3times25.net Wed Apr 7 15:34:27 2004 From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey) Date: Wed Apr 7 14:35:38 2004 Subject: [ale] Internet connection question In-Reply-To: <40743A35.9060000@cfl.rr.com> References: <200404071131.42857.wsams@southernlink.net> <200404071208.31855.drifter@oppositelock.org> <40742B2A.6020401@3times25.net> <200404071250.45963.wsams@southernlink.net> <40743A35.9060000@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <407449B3.5040107@3times25.net> Brian Chase wrote: > Well, external hosting may save you some money, but your linux box > won't be doing the heavy lifting then. Alot depends on how many > accounts you'll need to host and how many integrated services you'd > like to run off it. I like the flexibility of doing it myself > because I can create an unlimited number of email accounts on the fly > for no additional charges, but if you've got just a few people in > your organization, I think it turns out cheaper to do it all on an > offsite hosting service. You'll be ahead of the game with hosting it > yourself if you want to do a "Groupware" solution similar to MS > Exchange, with calendar, to-do, etc... Knowing what I know about Walter and his business, he's not interested in 'doing it himself.' The right solution is to push the headache of mail hosting to a hosting service. He will not likely exceed the 50 email addressed offered via 1and1. Unlike myself and other's on this list, Walter's main interest in Linux is efficiently running his business and ridding himself of the Microsoft burden. He's not likely to set up his own mail server for the learning experience it will gain him. Walter is the kind of guy we need more of. A businessman who sees a better solution in running his business. He doesn't need a static IP. Walter, correct me if I'm wrong, but you're interested in getting a working solution as quickly and painlessly as possible. 1and1 uses Linux servers by the way. -- Until later, Geoffrey Registered Linux User #108567 Building secure systems in spite of Microsoft From esoteric at 3times25.net Wed Apr 7 15:39:01 2004 From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey) Date: Wed Apr 7 14:39:59 2004 Subject: [ale] OT - Microsoft goes Open Source In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040407124217.022059c0@casbah.gatech.edu> Message-ID: <40744AC5.3020802@3times25.net> Joe Knapka wrote: > My first thought was, "This is a trick. Have they found a way to > "embrace and extend" the open source development model?" But > that was a very interesting blog entry. The guy seems sincere. I do not trust anyone who works for Microsoft, including the recently 'elected' USENIX president (what is this world coming to?), they have been indoctrinated. > I'm not sure Microsoft is capable of producing anything that > doesn't suck though, open-source or no. I doubt it as well. I assure you, their purpose is for their gain, and none other. -- Until later, Geoffrey Registered Linux User #108567 Building secure systems in spite of Microsoft From esoteric at 3times25.net Wed Apr 7 15:41:19 2004 From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey) Date: Wed Apr 7 14:42:20 2004 Subject: [ale] Internet connection question In-Reply-To: <4074494A.1050903@cfl.rr.com> References: <200404071131.42857.wsams@southernlink.net> <200404071208.31855.drifter@oppositelock.org> <40742B2A.6020401@3times25.net> <200404071250.45963.wsams@southernlink.net> <407447FA.9020408@3times25.net> <4074494A.1050903@cfl.rr.com> Message-ID: <40744B4F.4080705@3times25.net> Brian Chase wrote: > Sure you don't work for these guys, lol.... No I work for myself. I'm using them for an example as I've recently taken advantage of their services, and therefore know more about them than others. There have been recent postings regarding similar hosting services, but I was looking for the most bang for the buck. -- Until later, Geoffrey Registered Linux User #108567 Building secure systems in spite of Microsoft From griffisb at bellsouth.net Wed Apr 7 15:43:54 2004 From: griffisb at bellsouth.net (griffisb@bellsouth.net) Date: Wed Apr 7 14:47:20 2004 Subject: [ale] OT: GigE Copper specs Message-ID: <20040407184354.GQZB1715.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Hey all, had an off-topic question about Gigabit Ethernet specs. Is it supported on Cat 5 cable, patch panels and patch cords - or is Cat5e or better required. Distance is 100 meters, correct? I'm seeing a lot of errors on some GigE ports at work, and beleive it to be infrasture-related. From brandoncolbert at digitalwan.net Wed Apr 7 15:48:33 2004 From: brandoncolbert at digitalwan.net (Brandon Colbert) Date: Wed Apr 7 14:54:49 2004 Subject: [ale] Dialin Server problems Message-ID: <016301c41cd0$f3497770$2a01a8c0@yoda> I am able to dial in the the Dailin Server, but when it gets to the authentication part it says the username/password/domain is unknown. I already setup the ppp acount for the server. I tried redhat and freesco and they both return the same problem. Can some shed some light on this situation Brandon Colbert Network Technician A+,Network+,Linux+,CCNA www.digitalwan.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://ike.room17.com/pipermail/ale/attachments/20040407/e3f83fd5/attachment.html From cfowler at outpostsentinel.com Wed Apr 7 19:54:28 2004 From: cfowler at outpostsentinel.com (Chris Fowler) Date: Wed Apr 7 14:55:15 2004 Subject: [ale] OT: Car Buying Message-ID: <1081363894.20929.221.camel@devel> I found this article and thought I would share it. http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/42962/article.html?tid=edmunds.h.directoryalpha.directory..1.* From cshapiro at nubridges.com Wed Apr 7 19:55:33 2004 From: cshapiro at nubridges.com (Charles Shapiro) Date: Wed Apr 7 14:55:42 2004 Subject: [ale] OT - Microsoft goes Open Source In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20040407124217.022059c0@casbah.gatech.edu> References: <5.2.1.1.2.20040407124217.022059c0@casbah.gatech.edu> Message-ID: <1081363939.27870.112.camel@cshapiro.numethods.com> Yeh, I thought this was mighty innaresting. I looked at the project in sourceforge.net and sure enough, it's an actual open source thing licensed under the Common Public License (http://www.opensource.org/licenses/cpl.php), an OSI-approved open-source license. This ain't no shared-source bullpucky. It's the real thing, giving you rights to modify and republish the code. Good on 'em, dudes. I think this is an attempt to be responsive to their other big audience, developers. Too bad their ability to make their developers happier is limited by their business model. -- CHS On Wed, 2004-04-07 at 12:48, Keith R. Watson wrote: > Hi all, > > Another sysadmin sent me this and I thought the list might like to know > about it considering Microsoft's previous stand on the subject of open source. > > http://news.com.com/2100-7344-5185549.html > <> From bjorn at sccs.swarthmore.edu Wed Apr 7 16:18:03 2004 From: bjorn at sccs.swarthmore.edu (Bjorn Dittmer-Roche) Date: Wed Apr 7 15:20:54 2004 Subject: [ale] OT: GigE Copper specs In-Reply-To: <20040407184354.GQZB1715.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> References: <20040407184354.GQZB1715.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <20040407151658.W379@twiggy.bjorn.is-a-geek.com> On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 griffisb@bellsouth.net wrote: > Hey all, had an off-topic question about Gigabit Ethernet specs. Is it > supported on Cat 5 cable, patch panels and patch cords - or is Cat5e or > better required. Distance is 100 meters, correct? You supposedly need 5e, but many people report getting away with 5. I would think using cat 5 would be more of a problem at greater distances. > I'm seeing a lot of errors on some GigE ports at work, and beleive it to > be infrasture-related. Could be. bjorn From freemyer-ml at NorcrossGroup.com Wed Apr 7 16:25:45 2004 From: freemyer-ml at NorcrossGroup.com (Greg Freemyer) Date: Wed Apr 7 15:30:30 2004 Subject: [ale] OT: GigE Copper specs In-Reply-To: <20040407184354.GQZB1715.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> References: <20040407184354.GQZB1715.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@mail.bellsouth.net> Message-ID: <1081365944.17480.34.camel@david.internal.NorcrossGroup.com> On Wed, 2004-04-07 at 14:43, griffisb@bellsouth.net wrote: > Hey all, had an off-topic question about Gigabit Ethernet specs. Is it supported on Cat 5 cable, patch panels and patch cords - or is Cat5e or better required. Distance is 100 meters, correct? > > I'm seeing a lot of errors on some GigE ports at work, and beleive it to be infrasture-related. > > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale@ale.org > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale I don't know the details, but I do know that patch panel punch down techniques that work for 100 Mbit don't work for GigE. For instance, with 100 Mbit it was not unusual to unwind several inches of individual wires near the punch downs. With GigE, much tighter tolerances are needed for maintaining the twisted pairs all the way to the punch down. (For some reason I'm thinking less than 6 inches of untwisted cable cummulative over the end-to-end connection. If you are using multiple punch downs, then it adds up quickly.) So, if you are doing punch downs (even if you have all GigE acceptable components) it is easy to mis-install patch panels, etc. Greg -- Greg Freemyer From mhirsch at nubridges.com Wed Apr 7 15:26:47 2004 From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael D. Hirsch) Date: Wed Apr 7 15:31:21 2004 Subject: [ale] Best file comparator and difference picker In-Reply-To: References: <4071D8BF.2080107@kennesaw.edu> Message-ID: <200404071526.47534.mhirsch@nubridges.com> On Monday 05 April 2004 07:47 pm, Fletch wrote: > If you're an emacs person there's ediff. And emerge. Both are pretty cool. Michael From mhirsch at nubridges.com Wed Apr 7 15:33:45 2004 From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael D. Hirsch) Date: Wed Apr 7 15:37:26 2004 Subject: [ale] Internet connection question In-Reply-To: <200404071208.31855.drifter@oppositelock.org> References: <200404071131.42857.wsams@southernlink.net> <200404071208.31855.drifter@oppositelock.org> Message-ID: <200404071533.45124.mhirsch@nubridges.com> On Wednesday 07 April 2004 12:08 pm, Sean Kilpatrick wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Wednesday 07 April 2004 11:31 am, Walter Sams wrote: > | IE I want all email to be seen as comming from myname@mycompany.com, > | but my isp mail server is mail.joesmuck.net and my user for the isp > | account is dummy@joesmuck.net > > Walter, > This tip probably won't help much, but kmail can be easily > configured to accept more than one "identity" -- > myname@mycompany.com That string value will be inserted into > the headers on the "From:" line. > > >Configure-KMail > Identities > New > > You will note that this message is "From" drifter@oppositelock.org" > even though my isp is Speakeasy. Walter, did you try the above solution? This is what I've been doing and never had a problem. Someone replied that it might cause trouble, but I haven't ever had any. You might try it before you go too far down the raod of getting a new ISP. Michael From mhirsch at nubridges.com Wed Apr 7 15:44:58 2004 From: mhirsch at nubridges.com (Michael D. Hirsch) Date: Wed Apr 7 15:49:16 2004 Subject: [ale] STORY LINK: Vendor slammed for 'selling' patches In-Reply-To: References: <20040402170325.GA28013@verysecurelinux.com> Message-ID: <200404071544.58031.mhirsch@nubridges.com> On Friday 02 April 2004 06:19 pm, Joe Knapka wrote: > Bob Toxen writes: > > On Thu, Apr 01, 2004 at 02:24:28PM -0700, Joe Knapka wrote: > > > John Mills writes: > > > > ALErs - > > > > > > > > Whatever subsequent responsibilities of vendor to purchaser and > > > > vice-versa should as a matter of good practice be agreed at the time > > > > of sale. (Will anyone who thinks they understand Microsoft's EULA > > > > please stand up. Anyone??) > > > > > > Seems pretty straightforward. Paraphrased: "If we catch you using our > > > software without paying for it, or giving it to others, we have the > > > right to rape you, throw your family out in the street, kill your > > > pets, and burn down your domicile. If our software doesn't do what we > > > say it does, you are screwed. So, heh heh, we pretty much get you > > > either way." > > > > In California, it is common for judges to throw out contracts that are > > too one-sided as being unfair and "coerced". I'm disappointed that this > > has not happened with Microsoft's EULA and those of other software > > vendors. > > Have they ever actually been tested in court? I've never heard of > such a case, that I can recall anyway. I recall one court case where the judge expressed extreme doubt that it would stand up. But, since the case didn't actually hinge on that matter, there was no firm ruling. Michael From matthew.brown at cordata.com Wed Apr 7 17:46:00 2004 From: matthew.brown at cordata.com (Matthew Brown) Date: Wed Apr 7 16:49:48 2004 Subject: [ale] Job Posting Message-ID: <20040407204601.KXYB1780.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@BLUGLO> Thought you folks would like to know... http://www.bestgeorgiajobs.com/post_info.asp?id=1403 Best Regards, Matthew Brown (888) 681-2262 . (770) 795-0089 . http://www.cordata.com * Windows and Linux Networks * Anti-virus * Security * Email * Web Development & Hosting * Application Development & Hosting From esoteric at 3times25.net Wed Apr 7 17:50:22 2004 From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey) Date: Wed Apr 7 16:51:23 2004 Subject: [ale] Internet connection question In-Reply-To: <200404071533.45124.mhirsch@nubridges.com> References: <200404071131.42857.wsams@southernlink.net> <200404071208.31855.drifter@oppositelock.org> <200404071533.45124.mhirsch@nubridges.com> Message-ID: <4074698E.6070509@3times25.net> Michael D. Hirsch wrote: > On Wednesday 07 April 2004 12:08 pm, Sean Kilpatrick wrote: > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 >> >> On Wednesday 07 April 2004 11:31 am, Walter Sams wrote: | IE I >> want all email to be seen as comming from myname@mycompany.com, | >> but my isp mail server is mail.joesmuck.net and my user for the >> isp | account is dummy@joesmuck.net >> >> Walter, This tip probably won't help much, but kmail can be easily >> configured to accept more than one "identity" -- >> myname@mycompany.com That string value will be inserted into the >> headers on the "From:" line. >> >> >>> Configure-KMail > Identities > New >> >> You will note that this message is "From" drifter@oppositelock.org" >> even though my isp is Speakeasy. > > > Walter, did you try the above solution? This is what I've been doing > and never had a problem. Someone replied that it might cause > trouble, but I haven't ever had any. You might try it before you go > too far down the raod of getting a new ISP. I'd be interested in seeing what the headers look like. -- Until later, Geoffrey Registered Linux User #108567 Building secure systems in spite of Microsoft From wsams at southernlink.net Wed Apr 7 18:07:35 2004 From: wsams at southernlink.net (Walter Sams) Date: Wed Apr 7 17:08:52 2004 Subject: [ale] Internet connection question In-Reply-To: <407449B3.5040107@3times25.net> References: <200404071131.42857.wsams@southernlink.net> <40743A35.9060000@cfl.rr.com> <407449B3.5040107@3times25.net> Message-ID: <200404071707.35684.wsams@southernlink.net> I must admit to wanting to have an easy solution FAST-sans M$- My biggest problem is how to incorporate office solutions into my office without me having to take a 6 month leave to learn how to be a sysadmin. I am looking for a solution which when set up properly will not require a large amount of time to maintain, as I am outsourcing sysadmin work. I spend 40-50 hours a week in preparing bids on work we do and managing jobs in progress. I have little time to learn a new trade. I am keeping all of the information I get from yall hear on this list to show to my IT person (a young person 24, he has to learn some of this stuff as he goes)-- so we can decide what to do.. A note to all on this list--- having these varied opinons is very helpfull to me in making my plans. Most books do not express the experiences and opinions I see here. Your willingness to share knowledge is appreciated. On Wednesday 07 April 2004 02:34 pm, Geoffrey wrote: > Brian Chase wrote: > > Well, external hosting may save you some money, but your linux box > > won't be doing the heavy lifting then. Alot depends on how many > > accounts you'll need to host and how many integrated services you'd > > like to run off it. I like the flexibility of doing it myself > > because I can create an unlimited number of email accounts on the fly > > for no additional charges, but if you've got just a few people in > > your organization, I think it turns out cheaper to do it all on an > > offsite hosting service. You'll be ahead of the game with hosting it > > yourself if you want to do a "Groupware" solution similar to MS > > Exchange, with calendar, to-do, etc... > > Knowing what I know about Walter and his business, he's not interested > in 'doing it himself.' The right solution is to push the headache of > mail hosting to a hosting service. He will not likely exceed the 50 > email addressed offered via 1and1. Unlike myself and other's on this > list, Walter's main interest in Linux is efficiently running his > business and ridding himself of the Microsoft burden. He's not likely > to set up his own mail server for the learning experience it will gain him. > > Walter is the kind of guy we need more of. A businessman who sees a > better solution in running his business. > > He doesn't need a static IP. Walter, correct me if I'm wrong, but > you're interested in getting a working solution as quickly and > painlessly as possible. > > 1and1 uses Linux servers by the way. From wsams at southernlink.net Wed Apr 7 18:11:27 2004 From: wsams at southernlink.net (Walter Sams) Date: Wed Apr 7 17:12:13 2004 Subject: [ale] Internet connection question In-Reply-To: <407447FA.9020408@3times25.net> References: <200404071131.42857.wsams@southernlink.net> <200404071250.45963.wsams@southernlink.net> <407447FA.9020408@3times25.net> Message-ID: <200404071711.27955.wsams@southernlink.net> Geoff I knew there was something about you that was familiar--you are Episcopalian-- As the son of an Episcopalian minister, I know something about that Church-- :) I am getting only 10 addresses with my domain, I will have to look further into this. Thank you Walter Sams On Wednesday 07 April 2004 02:27 pm, Geoffrey wrote: > Walter Sams wrote: > > From the posts, it seems as though I need to move to a single source > > for internet access and work from there???? > > Not necessarily. There are a host of providers out there who will > provide web based services as well as email. For example, you can get > 50 pop email addresses and web space for about $5 a month from > http://www.1and1.com > > I just set up a website and mail services for the church I attend. > (http://www.annunciationepiscopal.org/) > > Further, you can move your domain there for free. You can forward the > email addresses to an existing one, or simply pop your email from their > server. > > There are others who will provide similar services. > > You do not need a static IP for this. From wsams at southernlink.net Wed Apr 7 18:15:56 2004 From: wsams at southernlink.net (Walter Sams) Date: Wed Apr 7 17:16:39 2004 Subject: [ale] Internet connection question In-Reply-To: <200404071533.45124.mhirsch@nubridges.com> References: <200404071131.42857.wsams@southernlink.net> <200404071208.31855.drifter@oppositelock.org> <200404071533.45124.mhirsch@nubridges.com> Message-ID: <200404071715.56562.wsams@southernlink.net> I am looking to see if I configured kmail incorrectly, this is 2 folks who say it works for them-- lets see....settings-configure...... :) I will follow up on this Thank you Walter Sams On Wednesday 07 April 2004 03:33 pm, Michael D. Hirsch wrote: > On Wednesday 07 April 2004 12:08 pm, Sean Kilpatrick wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On Wednesday 07 April 2004 11:31 am, Walter Sams wrote: > > | IE I want all email to be seen as comming from myname@mycompany.com, > > | but my isp mail server is mail.joesmuck.net and my user for the isp > > | account is dummy@joesmuck.net > > > > Walter, > > This tip probably won't help much, but kmail can be easily > > configured to accept more than one "identity" -- > > myname@mycompany.com That string value will be inserted into > > the headers on the "From:" line. > > > > >Configure-KMail > Identities > New > > > > You will note that this message is "From" drifter@oppositelock.org" > > even though my isp is Speakeasy. > > Walter, did you try the above solution? This is what I've been doing and > never had a problem. Someone replied that it might cause trouble, but I > haven't ever had any. You might try it before you go too far down the raod > of getting a new ISP. > > Michael > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale@ale.org > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale From ups at tree.com Wed Apr 7 18:16:05 2004 From: ups at tree.com (Stephan Uphoff) Date: Wed Apr 7 17:20:31 2004 Subject: [ale] Internet connection question In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 07 Apr 2004 16:50:22 EDT." <4074698E.6070509@3times25.net> Message-ID: <200404072116.RAA16183@stups.com> Geoffrey wrote: > Michael D. Hirsch wrote: > > On Wednesday 07 April 2004 12:08 pm, Sean Kilpatrick wrote: > > > >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > >> > >> On Wednesday 07 April 2004 11:31 am, Walter Sams wrote: | IE I > >> want all email to be seen as comming from myname@mycompany.com, | > >> but my isp mail server is mail.joesmuck.net and my user for the > >> isp | account is dummy@joesmuck.net > >> > >> Walter, This tip probably won't help much, but kmail can be easily > >> configured to accept more than one "identity" -- > >> myname@mycompany.com That string value will be inserted into the > >> headers on the "From:" line. > >> > >> > >>> Configure-KMail > Identities > New > >> > >> You will note that this message is "From" drifter@oppositelock.org" > >> even though my isp is Speakeasy. > > > > > > Walter, did you try the above solution? This is what I've been doing > > and never had a problem. Someone replied that it might cause > > trouble, but I haven't ever had any. You might try it before you go > > too far down the raod of getting a new ISP. > > I'd be interested in seeing what the headers look like. > > -- > Until later, Geoffrey Registered Linux User #108567 > Building secure systems in spite of Microsoft > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale@ale.org > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > I use sendmail to rewrite my from address. The only problems that I encountered came from directly sending mail. ( Mail from customer IP address blocks from dsl/cable/dial-up providers are often rejected as SPAM) Using my ISPs smtp server as a mail relay solved the problem. I also use external email hosting - for ca 30$/per year for max 50 user or 250 MByte (godaddy.com) I can avoid an open TCP port that I have to worry about ;-) Stephan From wsams at southernlink.net Wed Apr 7 18:27:47 2004 From: wsams at southernlink.net (Walter Sams) Date: Wed Apr 7 17:28:36 2004 Subject: [ale] Internet connection question In-Reply-To: <200404071533.45124.mhirsch@nubridges.com> References: <200404071131.42857.wsams@southernlink.net> <200404071208.31855.drifter@oppositelock.org> <200404071533.45124.mhirsch@nubridges.com> Message-ID: <200404071726.03436.walter@samsco.biz> I just tried to send a reply to this email, resetting the identity to walter@samsco.biz and got the message kicked out with the following message Sending failed: One of the recipients was not accepted. The server responded: "not local host ale.org, not a gateway " The message will stay in the 'outbox' folder until you either fix the problem (e.g. a broken address) or remove the message from the 'outbox' folder. Note: Other messages will also be blocked by this message, as long as it is in the 'outbox' folder The following transport protocol was used: wsams This will happen when I try to send a message with the identity of walter@samsco.biz On Wednesday 07 April 2004 03:33 pm, Michael D. Hirsch wrote: > On Wednesday 07 April 2004 12:08 pm, Sean Kilpatrick wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On Wednesday 07 April 2004 11:31 am, Walter Sams wrote: > > | IE I want all email to be seen as comming from myname@mycompany.com, > > | but my isp mail server is mail.joesmuck.net and my user for the isp > > | account is dummy@joesmuck.net > > > > Walter, > > This tip probably won't help much, but kmail can be easily > > configured to accept more than one "identity" -- > > myname@mycompany.com That string value will be inserted into > > the headers on the "From:" line. > > > > >Configure-KMail > Identities > New > > > > You will note that this message is "From" drifter@oppositelock.org" > > even though my isp is Speakeasy. > > Walter, did you try the above solution? This is what I've been doing and > never had a problem. Someone replied that it might cause trouble, but I > haven't ever had any. You might try it before you go too far down the raod > of getting a new ISP. > > Michael > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale@ale.org > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale From jimmyc at speedfactory.net Wed Apr 7 20:00:50 2004 From: jimmyc at speedfactory.net (Jim Philips) Date: Wed Apr 7 19:04:31 2004 Subject: [ale] Linux thin client rollout Message-ID: <200404071901.05404.jimmyc@speedfactory.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 This is a great article for anybody who's in a position to push a company toward Linux conversion. All of the apps resided on the server, but could be run on the desktops using a floppy-sized Linux distro. So, they didn't have to uninstall the Windows stuff from their hard drives. There was a clear and easy backout plan if users didn't like the new environment. The details are here: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=7109 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFAdIgsmqVh/g13CaoRAhc8AJ9I7zeagLytsE0DCT5kFgiCi4z8XwCfa8Od U0siPxZDZrIRBpHySnxDoCs= =EXdb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net Wed Apr 7 21:27:25 2004 From: Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net (Robert L. Harris) Date: Wed Apr 7 20:31:06 2004 Subject: [ale] "motion" and snapshots? Message-ID: <20040408002725.GO21340@rdlg.net> I know Geoff and a couple others are playing with "motion". I just got a new webcam and it's actually supported. Getting motion up and online was quick and I love the built in web server. So far the only problem I've got is the snapshots are saved in /2004/04/08/21/22/snapshot.jpg format instead of somethign like /prefix/200404082122.jpg which makes poking through a history much simpler. Anyone found a way to manage something like this? :wq! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert L. Harris | GPG Key ID: E344DA3B @ x-hkp://pgp.mit.edu DISCLAIMER: These are MY OPINIONS ALONE. I speak for no-one else. With Dreams To Be A King First One Should Be A Man - Manowar -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://ike.room17.com/pipermail/ale/attachments/20040407/040c4ad8/attachment.bin From christopher at bergeron.com Wed Apr 7 22:10:53 2004 From: christopher at bergeron.com (Christopher Bergeron) Date: Wed Apr 7 21:10:27 2004 Subject: [ale] [Fwd: Average Salary for Programmers] Message-ID: <4074A69D.90309@bergeron.com> FYI - this in kind of interesting (and scary) in light of the new global economy and telecommuting... -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "Bruce Barrett" Subject: Average Salary for Programmers Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 12:48:04 -0700 Size: 3272 Url: http://ike.room17.com/pipermail/ale/attachments/20040407/4ed774d4/AverageSalaryforProgrammers.mht From esoteric at 3times25.net Wed Apr 7 22:48:43 2004 From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey) Date: Wed Apr 7 21:50:10 2004 Subject: [ale] Internet connection question In-Reply-To: <200404071711.27955.wsams@southernlink.net> References: <200404071131.42857.wsams@southernlink.net> <200404071250.45963.wsams@southernlink.net> <407447FA.9020408@3times25.net> <200404071711.27955.wsams@southernlink.net> Message-ID: <4074AF7B.9020303@3times25.net> Walter Sams wrote: > Geoff > > I knew there was something about you that was familiar--you are > Episcopalian-- As the son of an Episcopalian minister, I know > something about that Church-- :) :) > I am getting only 10 addresses with my domain, I will have to look > further into this. If that's all you need, that should suffice. Does your provider offer mail services? You can always move your domain to a different provider. -- Until later, Geoffrey Registered Linux User #108567 Building secure systems in spite of Microsoft From esoteric at 3times25.net Wed Apr 7 22:51:34 2004 From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey) Date: Wed Apr 7 21:52:31 2004 Subject: [ale] Internet connection question In-Reply-To: <200404071715.56562.wsams@southernlink.net> References: <200404071131.42857.wsams@southernlink.net> <200404071208.31855.drifter@oppositelock.org> <200404071533.45124.mhirsch@nubridges.com> <200404071715.56562.wsams@southernlink.net> Message-ID: <4074B026.1090903@3times25.net> Walter Sams wrote: > I am looking to see if I configured kmail incorrectly, this is 2 > folks who say it works for them-- lets > see....settings-configure...... :) > I will follow up on this The problem lies in whether the setting reflects a true domain. If it does, you should be okay. If it does not, then some mail services will reject it because they can't verify the domain via reverse dns. The quickest way is to try it and see. If you like, set it up in this way, send me an email and I'll check the headers to see if I see anything unusual. -- Until later, Geoffrey Registered Linux User #108567 Building secure systems in spite of Microsoft From esoteric at 3times25.net Wed Apr 7 22:53:27 2004 From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey) Date: Wed Apr 7 21:54:23 2004 Subject: [ale] Internet connection question In-Reply-To: <200404072116.RAA16183@stups.com> References: <200404072116.RAA16183@stups.com> Message-ID: <4074B097.2050405@3times25.net> Stephan Uphoff wrote: > I use sendmail to rewrite my from address. That will work. > The only problems that I encountered came from directly sending mail. > ( Mail from customer IP address blocks from dsl/cable/dial-up > providers are often rejected as SPAM) > > Using my ISPs smtp server as a mail relay solved the problem. > > I also use external email hosting - for ca 30$/per year for max 50 > user or 250 MByte (godaddy.com) I can avoid an open TCP port that I > have to worry about ;-) A solution I agree with. -- Until later, Geoffrey Registered Linux User #108567 Building secure systems in spite of Microsoft From runman at speedfactory.net Wed Apr 7 23:02:25 2004 From: runman at speedfactory.net (Greg) Date: Wed Apr 7 22:05:40 2004 Subject: [ale] [Fwd: Average Salary for Programmers] In-Reply-To: <4074A69D.90309@bergeron.com> Message-ID: <002d01c41d0d$89eb5c20$0a00a8c0@canwebdev> I am not sure how these "numbers" were computed, but I believe them to be highly suspect. I am trying to be diplomatic - can y'all tell ? I think the US average salary is much lower these days. Greg > -----Original Message----- > From: ale-bounces@ale.org [mailto:ale-bounces@ale.org]On Behalf Of > Christopher Bergeron > Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 9:11 PM > To: ale@ale.org > Subject: [ale] [Fwd: Average Salary for Programmers] > > > FYI - this in kind of interesting (and scary) in light of the new global > economy and telecommuting... > > > > From esoteric at 3times25.net Wed Apr 7 23:05:33 2004 From: esoteric at 3times25.net (Geoffrey) Date: Wed Apr 7 22:06:26 2004 Subject: [ale] "motion" and snapshots? In-Reply-To: <20040408002725.GO21340@rdlg.net> References: <20040408002725.GO21340@rdlg.net> Message-ID: <4074B36D.4010400@3times25.net> Robert L. Harris wrote: > > I know Geoff and a couple others are playing with "motion". I just > got a new webcam and it's actually supported. Getting motion up and > online was quick and I love the built in web server. So far the only > problem I've got is the snapshots are saved in > /2004/04/08/21/22/snapshot.jpg format instead of somethign > like /prefix/200404082122.jpg which makes poking through a history > much simpler. Anyone found a way to manage something like this? I've got a perl script around here that does a conversion like this, let me look around...... Ah, here it is! It's ugly, it's old, it uses static directory values, feel free to hack away at it. Hope it helps! -- Until later, Geoffrey Registered Linux User #108567 Building secure systems in spite of Microsoft -------------- next part -------------- #!/usr/bin/perl # use diagnostics; use strict; my ($nfn, $fn, @parts, %newdir, %newfn, $i, $key, $value, %file, @df, @data); chdir "/home/esoteric/watch" || die "died attempting to chdir"; my @files = `find . -name '*.jpg' -print`; printf "files to move: %s\n", $#files + 1; my @pre_df=`df /home/esoteric/store`; foreach $fn (@files) { # parse through each file name, and build the new filename # and directory name the file will reside chomp $fn; @parts = split ("/", $fn); $file{$fn} = $parts[0]; $newdir{$fn} = "/home/esoteric/store/archive/" . substr($parts[1], 2, 2) . $parts[2] . $parts[3]; $newfn{$fn} = $parts[4] . $parts[5] . substr($parts[6], 0, 2); for ($i = 1; $i < $#parts; $i++) { $file{$fn} = $file{$fn} . "/" . $parts[$i]; } } my $count=0; while (($key, $value) = each %file) { $count++; } printf "files to move: %s\n", $count; $count=0; while (($key, $value) = each %file) { # create the directory if it does not exist if ( ! -d $newdir{$key} ) { mkdir $newdir{$key}; } # insure unique file names $nfn=$newdir{$key} . "/" . $newfn{$key} . ".jpg"; while ( -e $nfn ) { printf "Found a duplicate <%s> and <%s>\n", $nfn, $newfn{$key}; print "Changing file name"; $nfn=$newdir{$key} . "/" . $newfn{$key} . "a.jpg"; } # printf "moving %s to %s\n", $key, $nfn; `/bin/mv $key $nfn`; if ( ! -e $nfn ) { die "file doesn't exist, mv failed\n" } # if ( $? != 0 ) {die "mv $key $nfn failed ($?)";} $count++; } print "files moved: $count\n"; # $list=`find * -type d -depth -print`; # print "list of directories located: $list\n"; `find * -type d -depth -print |xargs rmdir`; @df=`df /home/esoteric/store`; @data = split " ", $df[1]; $data[4] =~ s/%//; print $pre_df[1]; print $df[1]; if ( $data[4] > 98 ) { `/home/esoteric/shl/dosound /home/esoteric/sounds/intercom.au`; } exit; From Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net Wed Apr 7 23:33:47 2004 From: Robert.L.Harris at rdlg.net (Robert L. Harris) Date: Wed Apr 7 22:37:14 2004 Subject: [ale] "motion" and snapshots? In-Reply-To: <4074B36D.4010400@3times25.net> References: <20040408002725.GO21340@rdlg.net> <4074B36D.4010400@3times25.net> Message-ID: <20040408023347.GP21340@rdlg.net> I'll compare yours against mine I wrote while waiting on my freaking cablemmodem to come up. Helped when I found the "onsave" directive in the config file. Thanks for pointing out this proggy, it's great. Thus spake Geoffrey (esoteric@3times25.net): > Robert L. Harris wrote: > > > >I know Geoff and a couple others are playing with "motion". I just > >got a new webcam and it's actually supported. Getting motion up and > >online was quick and I love the built in web server. So far the only > >problem I've got is the snapshots are saved in > >/2004/04/08/21/22/snapshot.jpg format instead of somethign > >like /prefix/200404082122.jpg which makes poking through a history > >much simpler. Anyone found a way to manage something like this? > > I've got a perl script around here that does a conversion like this, let > me look around...... Ah, here it is! It's ugly, it's old, it uses > static directory values, feel free to hack away at it. Hope it helps! > > -- > Until later, Geoffrey Registered Linux User #108567 > Building secure systems in spite of Microsoft > #!/usr/bin/perl > > # use diagnostics; > use strict; > > my ($nfn, $fn, @parts, %newdir, %newfn, $i, $key, $value, %file, @df, @data); > > chdir "/home/esoteric/watch" || die "died attempting to chdir"; > > my @files = `find . -name '*.jpg' -print`; > > printf "files to move: %s\n", $#files + 1; > > my @pre_df=`df /home/esoteric/store`; > > foreach $fn (@files) { > > # parse through each file name, and build the new filename > # and directory name the file will reside > > chomp $fn; > @parts = split ("/", $fn); > $file{$fn} = $parts[0]; > $newdir{$fn} = "/home/esoteric/store/archive/" . > substr($parts[1], 2, 2) . $parts[2] . $parts[3]; > $newfn{$fn} = $parts[4] . $parts[5] . substr($parts[6], 0, 2); > > for ($i = 1; $i < $#parts; $i++) { > $file{$fn} = $file{$fn} . "/" . $parts[$i]; > } > } > > my $count=0; > > while (($key, $value) = each %file) { $count++; } > > printf "files to move: %s\n", $count; > > $count=0; > while (($key, $value) = each %file) { > > # create the directory if it does not exist > > if ( ! -d $newdir{$key} ) { mkdir $newdir{$key}; } > > # insure unique file names > > $nfn=$newdir{$key} . "/" . $newfn{$key} . ".jpg"; > > while ( -e $nfn ) { > printf "Found a duplicate <%s> and <%s>\n", $nfn, $newfn{$key}; > print "Changing file name"; > $nfn=$newdir{$key} . "/" . $newfn{$key} . "a.jpg"; > } > > # printf "moving %s to %s\n", $key, $nfn; > `/bin/mv $key $nfn`; > if ( ! -e $nfn ) { die "file doesn't exist, mv failed\n" } > # if ( $? != 0 ) {die "mv $key $nfn failed ($?)";} > $count++; > } > print "files moved: $count\n"; > > # $list=`find * -type d -depth -print`; > # print "list of directories located: $list\n"; > `find * -type d -depth -print |xargs rmdir`; > > @df=`df /home/esoteric/store`; > @data = split " ", $df[1]; > $data[4] =~ s/%//; > print $pre_df[1]; > print $df[1]; > if ( $data[4] > 98 ) { > `/home/esoteric/shl/dosound /home/esoteric/sounds/intercom.au`; > } > exit; > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > Ale@ale.org > http://www.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale :wq! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert L. Harris | GPG Key ID: E344DA3B @ x-hkp://pgp.mit.edu DISCLAIMER: These are MY OPINIONS ALONE. I speak for no-one else. With Dreams To Be A King First One Should Be A Man - Manowar -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://ike.room17.com/pipermail/ale/attachments/20040407/84a0f3f1/attachment.bin