[ale] Greg's using "those guys" ; -) (was: could somebody moderate this?)

[Barry Hawkins]

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On Oct 7, 2004, at 9:40 AM, Preston Boyington wrote:

> Greg wrote:
[...]
> * Req'd programs are vi, quanta, bluefish, aterm, xterm, a
>> file manager, ssh, scp, LinNeighborhood (and samba client), jboss (or 
>> cuacho resin),
>> apache, tomcat, netbeans, j2ee, postgresql, php, smarty, ADOdb, pear,
>> abiword, gnumeric, mozilla firefox, mozilla thunderbird, and
>> a lite wm - either IceWm or xfce (evaluating both right this minute).
>> This will handle my php and java dev stuff as well as light office 
>> requirments.
>>
>
> all available under various apt sources or by building from source.  I 
> use Fluxbox personally, but IceWM is comfortable for most people.

Fluxbox works great with FreeBSD as well.  I really like that window 
manager.

>
>> * Needs to be easily updatable.  CVSup is ok.  I am fine with
>> a command line.
>>
>
> err, apt-get?  aptitude?

I have found apt-get and aptitude quite good, and better at identifying 
dependency issues than CVSup, but that's just my personal opinion from 
experience.

>
>> Summary of what we have tried or thought about;
>>
>> Debian is too constrictive (just blew away the libranet
>> distro for too many conflicts in a postgresql install). Don't have 
>> time for that
>> crap.  But was ok for an hour or so.
>
> Ah, you used Libranet.  Libranet is nice for a good "all around" 
> install, but IMHO it doesn't do some things as well as a "real" Debian 
> install.  Especially when you are trying to tailor an installation to 
> fit specific needs.

The Debian installer is great now, no need to use Libranet.  I just had 
an excellent experience with the Debian installer snapshot for 
10/06/2004 installing onto an Apple Titanium PowerBook G4 500MHz with 
AirPort wireless networking.

>> Probably should have not upgraded from
>> stable and gone to current/release/whatever it's called.  Too many 
>> os's today.
>>
>
> Would depend on your situation I guess.  I run 3.0 on my laptop 
> ("Woody" which is the current stable) with no problems.  I don't think 
> I will upgrade to 3.1 ("Sarge") because it does everything I need.  
> Anything else I can build from source.
>
>> OpenBSD seemed to look like crap on the screen.
>
> Have used OpenBSD for a couple of servers, but for a BSD laptop I 
> would think NetBSD or FreeBSD.

For a laptop that needs a decent collection of userland apps, 
definitely FreeBSD.
[...]
>> FreeBSD has java,jboss, netbeans, and smarty in it's package
>> system.  No one else has any of them (linux only has java).  They have
>> embraced java as well as kept things relatively light.  Is used by 
>> many large
>> installations.  I am well versed in OpenBSD so it's familiar and
>> easily updateable (but it puts a strain on the system during make
>> (buildworld/installworld/buildkernel/installkernel) as
>> opposed to Debians binary download).  FreeBSD will also allow me to 
>> use packages
>> or ports (more configurable).  Just hope it recognizes the 
>> shift-fn-keypad
>> combo (IT DOES !!! DANG !! SWEET!!) so I can manipulate screen 
>> resolutions
>> on the box.
>>
>
A couple of caveats on FreeBSD's java support.  First, there is no 
native jdk/jre.  You have to use Linux JDKs with Linux binary 
compatibility enabled.  Second, you can compile your own native JDK 
using the java/jdk14 port in FreeBSD, but be aware that it is a journey 
involving the initial install of the Sun Linux JDK to bootstrap the 
build, the download of several of the Sun SCSL-licensed source package 
(you have to download these manually, due to licensing technicalities; 
the package cannot do it automatically), the download of the necessary 
patchset from the guy at eyesbeyond.com who maintains it on his own, 
and then the install.  At the end of all that effort, you find that the 
licensing implies stuff so shaky that you expect to get an email from 
Scott McNealy with an MP3 of the C.O.P.S. soundtrack attached to it - 
appropriately licensed, of course.

If Java support is a big issue for you, I would urge you to consider a 
full-fledged Debian install.

> I haven't used FreeBSD in a couple of years, but it wouldn't "bother 
> me" to use it again.  Although I would probably go NetBSD for a 
> desktop system unless the FreeB's have caught up to them with hardware 
> support.

FreeBSD should be way more than adequate in terms of hardware support 
for an x86 laptop of the vintage referenced above.
>
>> So the only thing I have left right now is it recognizing the
>> cardbus nic.
>>
>> Greg
>>
>
> Sounds like a nice project.  I wish you hadn't had the "bad" Debian 
> experience, but at least you have something you are comfortable with 
> using.  I think that is the most important point.
>
> Preston

Regards,

Barry C. Hawkins
All Things Computed
site: www.alltc.com
weblog: www.yepthatsme.com


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