[ale] Corporate taxes...

Terry Lee Tucker terry at esc1.com
Wed Nov 13 11:33:57 EST 2002


I had intended to stay out of this; however, your comments are exactly 
correct and you have quite effectively summed up the entire situation. 
Would you run for office? I'll vote for ya  :^)

F. Grant Robertson wrote:

>Did you not read what I replied to you?  GE as an entity may have paid
>no actual tax but, the shareholders and employees paid taxes on the
>dividends and wages they were paid.  Even Jack Welch, paid taxes.. and
>believe you me he paid quite alot of them. 
>
>If you eliminated personal income tax, and forced the corporations to
>pay for the burdens of the federal government, you would not create any
>net difference in where the money came from. You would only create the
>illusion that individuals pay no tax..  The reality is quite the
>contrary though, as people who earn money (consumers) are the ones who
>provide the income to the corporation, they are in turn the ones who
>bear the burden of any tax, regardless of who is technically liable for
>it under the tax code.  
>
>The myth of corporate taxes is only a device used to make you as a voter
>think that you are being relieved of the burden. the end result of any
>tax is money _you_ earned through work or investment is confiscated at
>the point of a gun by the federal government. It makes absolutely no
>difference who signs the check, it's coming out of _your_ pocket.
>
>The only exception comes if you are one of the "unfortunate" people who
>the liberals have relieved of their own tax burden by shifting that
>burden to those who are "fortunate". The end goal of the Democrats is to
>eliminate the direct, visible tax burden on the lower and middle class
>so that they think they are getting a deal and a free ride. However,
>this idea breaks down once transfered from paper to practice because of
>the principles I've outlined above. Any income for the federal
>government _must_ come from GDP. When you expand your thoughts to
>visualize this larger picture, and remove individuals and corporations
>from view (by taking all as a whole, hence the concept of GDP or Gross
>Domestic Product) it becomes crystal clear. More money in federal income
>directly translates to less free capital in the open economy.  If you
>ran the numbers and expressed the yearly federal budget as a percentage
>of GDP, you'd find that the total tax burden is growing at a rate beyond
>that of the growth of GDP.  This by definition is an impossible cycle to
>continue, as eventually, all of GDP becomes the sole property of
>government..  and that by definition is the economics of communism.
>
>It's plain and simple, it's right there in front of you but you refuse
>to see it. 
>
>-G
>
>
>
>On Wed, 2002-11-13 at 10:42, James P. Kinney III wrote:
>  
>
>>On Wed, 2002-11-13 at 10:01, Brian J. Dowd wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>Ok...my blood has finally reached the boiling point...
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>The only thing you left out was to close the tax loopholes
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>Since all tax "loopholes" are congressional laws initiated by the House 
>>>and passed by both
>>>the House and the Senate. And since both houses have been almost totally 
>>>under the control of Demorats for the past 48 years...What, exactly, is 
>>>your thesis?
>>>      
>>>
>>The process of paying taxes requires money. It has always seemed to me
>>that since corporations are an artificial entity whose existence is
>>solely for the accumulation of money, they should be required to chip in
>>as I am required to chip in. I have always viewed taxes as the means for
>>funding the processes we, as a collective people, want to see done.
>>
>>I place the blame on the current loopholes that allowed GE to earn
>>billions and pay $0 tax squarely on the greed of the people that make
>>the rules and the greed of the people that asked for the rules to be
>>made.
>>
>>    
>>
>>>>that allow
>>>>corporation to earn billions and pay no taxes. GE, Enron, and several
>>>>others have managed to avoid paying taxes on the billions they earned in
>>>>profits
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>Corporations are figments of lawyers' imaginations and corporate taxes 
>>>are figments of liberals' dreams. Corporations are totally owned by 
>>>shareholders, ie: *people*, who then wind up paying the taxes on any 
>>>imputed profits. Any tax actually paid by corporations merely serves to 
>>>raise the production costs of its goods so that all  its customers wind 
>>>up paying this hidden tax when they buy its products.
>>>
>>>If you really want to learn about (not just argue about) the 
>>>ramifications of "corporate taxes" please give http://www.fairtax.org a 
>>>few minutes of your time after you calm down.
>>>      
>>>
>>I have read much from that site before. And I still believe very
>>strongly that an entity whose only reason for existence is the financial
>>conquest of a market should be part of the funding process for the goods
>>and services that the government attempts to provide to the entire
>>population. As I see it, much of the current system of rules and
>>policies and processes exist to benefit that direct class of artificial
>>people. So, since they do have pockets lined with gold, why should they
>>not financially support the system that allows them to thrive here
>>better than anywhere else in the world. 
>>
>>    
>>
>>>>while our schools were cramming 35 kids into a trailer called a
>>>>classroom in front of a single teacher who is supposed to train these
>>>>kids to become good employees of these companies.
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>I'd seriously like to see your references to studies which correlate 
>>>class size or classroom construction methods to SAT scores or some other 
>>>measure of students' depth of knowledge. I will read your info after I 
>>>calm down. ;-)
>>>      
>>>
>>I teach, for one source of data. The direct evidence is getting harder
>>to come by as a layman. But some plugging on the web shows that the
>>schools with smaller class sizes will, on average, have better
>>performing students than schools with larger class sizes. 
>>
>>It really is all about investment. Some areas of the country are willing
>>to invest more into their schools than others. The immediate payback is
>>bragging rights based on test scores. The long term payback is a better
>>educated population with higher lifetime earning potential to fill the
>>coffers of government with their tax money.
>>
>>The reference to trailers is not a slap on building style. It is an
>>attack on the poor planning and budgetary woes of many school systems. 
>>
>>It is well known in the education profession that the closer a class can
>>get to the one-on-one mentor/student scenario found in graduate school,
>>the higher the learning rate becomes. As society moves towards using
>>more technology, the total amount of knowledge needed by an individual
>>to be an active participant in this society is increasing. 
>>
>>So we have class sizes mandated by non-teachers in Georgia to be 32
>>students to one teacher maximum. This number has been chosen as the best
>>trade-off between teaching paradigms and budgetary concerns. 
>>
>>I am still looking for a full-time job. But not in Georgia. Or anywhere
>>in the south, for that matter. 
>>
>>-- 
>>James P. Kinney III   \Changing the mobile computing world/
>>President and CEO      \          one Linux user         /
>>Local Net Solutions,LLC \           at a time.          /
>>770-493-8244             \.___________________________./
>>
>>GPG ID: 829C6CA7 James P. Kinney III (M.S. Physics)
>><jkinney at localnetsolutions.com>
>>Fingerprint = 3C9E 6366 54FC A3FE BA4D 0659 6190 ADC3 829C 6CA7 
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>
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>

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