[ale] chance to talk with Johnny Isakson('s staff)

[Benjamin Scherrey]

11/11/2002 4:51:05 PM, Jeff Hubbs <hbbs at attbi.com> wrote:

>Benjamin -
>
>I can't imagine how you could have possibly arrived at this conclusion. 
>Your "indentured servitude" issue is valid but as an IT worker (still
>unemployed, BTW) who was himself displaced by H-1Bs in a company that
>specialized in farming H=1Bs out to work in US companies, I take strong
>issue with your "bunk" statement.  Companies such as that one are
>certifying to the Government with each visa application that they cannot
>obtain Americans who can code up Web sites in Win2K/IIS/ASP/SQL Server. 
>Oh, really??  Har, har, tell me another one!!

Well Jeff - I too am formerlly employed and have been displaced, in the past, by companies 
exploiting the H1 program. I have also hired H1 persons and have many friends, here and abroad 
who are currently, or have previously, worked as H1 people. Therefore I am pretty intimate with the 
details and overall situation. I caution you and others about reacting emotionally about the issue 
and make an effort to truly understand what is going on and what the correct solution is.

>What is happening is that companies are parenthetically inserting "...at
>sub-market rates" with a wink and a nod when they make those
>certifications, and the INS is letting them get away with it.  Add that
>to the "chattel factor" of having so many vo-tech grads on the street
>looking to do exactly the same thing, and you've got depressed wages. 
>Might as well work in a factory - if you can find one.  

First off - you, and the government, are operating under the false and statist premise that its 
anybody's damn business what someone is paid to perform a certain task. "Depressed wages",  if 
one could claim that such a state exists, can only occur if, in a free market - over saturation has 
occurred for that skill set or, in a socialist market, constraints have been imposed that artificially 
imbalance the options available to the employer and employeed. Previously, during our boom 
market, only the latter situation had occurred. Presently however, both are occuring simultaneously 
with the understandably painful results. The former situation will correct itself quite rapidly, if allowed, 
but the latter will only be corrected by removing the government interference that you appear to still 
support - not increasing it. 

>If someone decided that all of Metro Atlanta's H-1Bs were to pack up and
>go, Americans could easily fill those jobs, but I doubt that many would
>want to at the same pay rate.  But, then again, if enough people figure
>that that is better than nothing, then it only reinforces IT jobs as
>being deserving of low pay.  

Well that is nearly the situation that we are in presently. The fact is, a very significant percentage of 
H1 employees have been let go and, although many would be willing to accept new employment 
for even lower wages, almost no H1 people, regardless of talent, are getting hired today. Notice 
that "can't sponsor VISA" print in every job posting you've read in the last year. This clear counter-
example to your claim helps define the accusation as "bunk" as I previously asserted. Understand 
that a great deal of these people are indeed being paid very competitive wages and are competent 
and earning every bit of it. Many came here with the understanding that, if they held up their end of 
things, did their work, paid their taxes, obeyed the law, and paid several thousand dollars in fees, 
didn't change jobs - after several years they would receive permanent resident status and be free to 
be employed and employ others at will. The FACTs show that the vast majority of such H1 
employees getting their green cards do not achieve unusual boosts in their income either at their H1 
employer or new employers that they may move to once achieving their green card status. This 
again demonstrates your presumptions to be "bunk". On the contrary, all of these H1 employees 
that have been let go (at a far higher likelyhood than non-H1 employees, btw) and were in the 
process of applying for green cards have lost several thousand dollars in application and legal fees 
paid out of pocket, have nearly zero chance of being re-employeed here in the US for any price, 
are being effectively deported out of the U.S.A., must pay to ship back or sell their possestions here 
and at great loss, remove their families and children from friends and schools and the promise of a 
better life in America,  and have absolutely no recourse whatsoever to regain any of this. Indeed 
they have paid taxes and our unemployment insurance yet are completely inelligable for any of the 
benefits of their contributions whatsoever. Yeah - they sure screwed you.


>Personally, I have no expectation at all that I can get hired at
>anywhere near the same amount of money I was making, at least not in the
>private sector, and it's not as though I worked in some starry-eyed
>dot-com or telecom outfit.

Jeff - you have no right to be paid what you are "worth" and foreign compeition has no measurable 
impact on this fact. The only person who will ever pay you what you are worth is yourself. A right 
that you and I, as citizens, have to the complete exclusion and exception of H1 persons. So 
perhaps you and I were being paid an artificially high wage during the boom? Whose fault is that? 
Neither the H1 personnel nor their employers - indeed their presence is symptomatic of that 
likelyhood. As in all things cyclic - especially those subject to the interest and influence of our 
benevolant government officials - there are peaks and valleys that must be weathered in order to 
survive. Awareness of this fact will help prevent the negative impact of this "irrational 
exhuberance" that the vast majority of people seemed to have fallen into. Our grandparents who 
never fail to remind us of their experience during the great depression (which was indeed greatly 
depressed because of this government interference) learned this lesson. Ours is not even a wavelet 
compared to what they went through nor even a tidal shift compared to what we experienced 
during the idylic times of Jimmy Carter where we experienced both double digit unemployment and 
interest rates even though keynesian economists (who still create the models our governmnent 
uses to make its decisions today - because it favours government spending) assured us that it was 
impossible for both to happen at the same time.

>But anyway, back to the point, there are IT companies in town whose
>business plan is based on their ability to provide software development
>at sub-market costs by using H-1Bs.  If this keeps up, the day will come
>when you *can't* get software written for hire by Americans anymore
>because American programmers will have left the field for other,
>better-paying jobs that afford more autonomy and fewer PHBs.  

Jeff - go read "Decline and Fall of the American Programmer" by Ed Yourdon (1992) to get a better 
perspective of what makes us competitive as programmers - and how we could lose that. H1's are 
symptomatic of the real problem - an effect rather than a cause. The fact is that, so long as America 
offers the highest freedom and opportunity to people vs. other countries, we will ALWAYS be the 
premier software development power in the world. Our willingness to import mind talent from the rest 
of the world and reward them more than they could ever hope for in their home nation ensures us of 
that place - we lose that and we're gonna feel the pain of 2nd or 3rd place real quick. Well guess 
what - for the last twenty years we have been the brain drain of China and India - making them 
completely non-competitive to us on the world market. Today we're kicking them all out and their 
countries are building infrastructure, providing tax incentives, and raising capital for them back 
home at rates faster than you can imagine..... just like you wanted.

   Yeah... that'll show em,

	Ben Scherrey

PS: I am presently learning Mandarin. Its fun and the women are cute... ;-)





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