[ale] CS Degree necessary?

[Geoffrey]

kschmidt at mindspring.com wrote:

> I must be one of those exceptions, I guess. I've been using computers

 > since age nine, programming since age 10, and working full time in 
the > field for almost 10 years (I'm now 28). Not having a degree hasn't
 > hurt me at all. Heck, > I've written an O'Reilly book and have started
 > on a second one.

I didn't know we had royalty in the midst!  I just checked you out at 
O'reilly, I just bought your book (Essential SNMP) about a month ago.


> Just because you stick it for four years doesn't guarantee that you're

 > worth a damn.

True, but it's better than nothing else.  Very few companies are going 
to hire you because you've been hacking in the basement.  Although 
writing a technical book will certainly help. :)

 > I've met some real clueless people who had CS degrees.

Yeah, me too.  The worst programmer I ever new had a BS in CS and a 4.0.

 > And some of the best coders I've known where either college drop outs
 > or guys with non-CS degrees.

The best two I ever worked with, one had a BS in Business, the other a 
MS in Chemistry.

> 
> Here's my take: If you have zero experience, then having a degree will

 > get you in the door. But it has been my "experience" that if you know 
 > your sh*t, then you will never have a problem, degree or no degree.

Bottom line, generally, techies don't look at the stack of resume's of 
folks to be hired. If a company has a stack of 100 resume's, some HR 
person is going to wittle that down.  The easiest thing for him/her to 
look at is education.  If you make it through that process, then the job 
experience is recognized.  Like I said, hacking in your basement is not 
going to do much on your resume'.  Granted, that's what a lot of Open 
Source folks do, but the suits don't generally look at that as experience.

Also, as you noted at the top of this posting, you're not your average 
joe. 'programming since 10.'

I will agree with most folks that the education will generally get you 
in the door.  From there it's really your experience, attitude and work 
ethic.  But, as I've noted in previous posts, many companies have 
specific educational requirements that must be met, in these situations, 
you're going to climb a shorter ladder and it's going to be slower going.

> 
> -Kevin
> 
> 
> Christopher Bergeron <christopher at bergeron.com> wrote:
> 
>>Michael, I went to Florida State for CS, but ended up with a degree in MIS
>>
> because I'm not very good at higher mathematics (go figure).  I've got a
> great job and this might be blasphemous to some, but I make more than the
> guy with the CS degree in my office.  I highly respect what the CS majors
> had to go through to get thier degrees - I just couldn't hack it.
> ....buuuuut, since I'm more experienced (I've been hacking since High
> School) I equate that to my overall higher salary.  I tend to think that
> salaries in general are a logarithmic curve.  When you're not educated it's
> harder to get to the apex, and when you're too educated you're actually
> overvalued and it's harder to find work (ever talk to someone with multiple
> degree's and a phD or master's in CS that _wasn't_ an instructor or
> professor? - neither have I).  The point of all this is that (IMHO) it's
> important to _have_ a degree; but ultimately your experience will pave the
> way of your career.  The degree will get you into interviews that you could
> not normally get and as a result I think you'll do much better than with
> just experience alone and no degree.  Although, to be practical I don't know
> how far a degree in "Paperclip Art" would get you.  You have to be
> realistic.
> 
> That's just my take on things,
> -CB
> 
> P.S.
> I'm 25 years old and according to salary.com I make in the middle-upper
> percentile of salaries for my job description (unix admin) adjusted for
> geometery of course!  [or is that geography!?]
> :)
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Michael Golden [mailto:naugrimk at yahoo.com]
>>Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 7:56 PM
>>To: ale at ale.org
>>Subject: [ale] CS Degree necessary?
>>
>>
>>Hi,
>>	I know a similar thread has gone on in this list a while
>>back but for
>>one I'm too lazy right now to go back and try to find it and two I don't
>>recall well enough if it addressed this exact topic.
>>	Right now I am set up to major in Computer Science but I've
>>only been
>>taking general education core classes so far. I was talking to people
>>about some of the classes for the major and I took a look through them
>>myself and I'm not sure how interested I am in taking half of them. I'd
>>like to have a career in computers but I don't know how much I'll enjoy
>>this major.
>>	Is a CS degree really necessary in the real world for computer jobs?
>>What are the advantages/disadvantages to having it? Anything else to
>>add?
>>
>>Michael
>>
>>
>>
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> 
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-- 
Until later: Geoffrey		esoteric at 3times25.net

"...the system (Microsoft passport) carries significant risks to users that
are not made adequately clear in the technical documentation available."
- David P. Kormann and Aviel D. Rubin, AT&T Labs - Research
- http://www.avirubin.com/passport.html


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